The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Who is Joe Rogan? Part One

Episode Date: June 2, 2019

Part one of Dr. Jordan B. Peterson's interview with Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan is an American stand-up comedian, mixed martial arts (MMA) color commentator, podcast host, businessman, television host, and actor.

Welcome back to the Jordan B. Peterson podcast. Or if you're new here, welcome to season 2 episode 11. I'm Michaela Peterson, Dad's daughter, favorite child and collaborator, just kidding. Today we're presenting a very entertaining podcast. Dad's conversation with Joe Rogan, part one. Dad and Joe discuss topics like parenting and divorce, raising kids and teenagers, experimenting with drugs, pot, conversion therapy, transgender children, which is a touchy subject, Joe's early years and where he grew up, and much more.

I think people will really like this episode. I'm excited about it anyway, although I just went to the gym and I am pumped. Update on personal stuff, Mum is still recovering from her surgery, but it's slow. Every day is a bit better and we'll be updating people on what's going on. Over my YouTube channel, Atmacaela Peterson, when she feels well enough to explain, to avoid all those rumors going around apparently. Thanks for all the kind messages, Mum's really enjoyed reading them. So hopefully you enjoy this episode I did. When we return, Dad's conversation with Joe Rogan.

Please welcome my father, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, with his guest, Joe Rogan. I guess the first thing I'd like to just ask you is how you're doing. I'm doing great. How are you? What's great about what you're doing? I'm doing great. How are you? What's great about what what you're doing? What's so good about your life? Well, right now, I'm in the process of putting together my next stand-up comedy special. So I'm at the process now where I've actually put together a full new hour of material since my Netflix special, which came out in October. So that's great for me.

That's always a relaxing moment because it's very difficult to put that hour together. And so how do you go about doing that? A lot of writing, a lot of performing, a lot of reading, a lot of going over notes, a lot of examining material, a lot of reviewing sets and trying to find out what I like and what I don't like. It's a long and brutal process. It's the most fun, but also the most difficult part of stand-up is the creation of new material. So how many hours do you think you put in of work to do an hour's worth of stand-up. Any idea? That's a really good question. It's usually about I can do a I can create a solid 10 minutes a month. That's usually what it is. So it takes me six months to do an hour and in that six months on an average week I'll do eight or nine sets.

or nine sets. So that's eight or nine, either half hour or hours of material, sometimes 15 minutes, usually an hour, depending upon where I'm working and how many other people are on the show, and then a lot of time writing. So you're doing those sets in front of live audiences all the time? Yes. Yeah, you have to. That's the weird thing about stand-up comedy. It seems to be that It's it's not something that you can do in a vacuum. It has to actually be done It actually it has to come alive in front of the audience like I can I can write in a vacuum I can write alone I can

contemplate go over my material review Edit I can do all sorts of things by myself, but it really doesn't come alive until it's in front of an audience. Yeah, well, I guess it's not so easy to figure out what's funny. You kind of hope that people will laugh. Yeah, it's that, but it's also there's a state of mind

that you only really achieve when you're performing in front of an audience. And you can try to recreate it, but it'll be fake. If you try to do it on your own, I don't write in joke form. Like, I don't write the way I say it on stage. I write in sort of a conceptual form. I write in an essay form. And then I sort of extract things that I think are funny out of that.

But they really only find their true way I'm going to do them. I only find that in front of an audience because it's like when the when I'm in front of an audience and it becomes clear to me how I should and shouldn't say things based in part on how they're reacting and based in part on how I feel when I'm performing the idea, like I find where the fat of the bit is. And that's where you kind of appreciate economy of words, and you know what to edit out, what to elaborate on, what people aren't totally understanding and what maybe is over-explained,

and all that stuff kind of comes together in front of an audience. So the essays that you're writing, or the writing that you're doing, are they on serious topics, are they on things you're thinking about philosophically, or are you trying specifically to be funny, or you're just trying to get some thoughts down about the way you're thinking about the world? Both. You know, it's like the ideas, it's, it's, I would say the standard comedy,

at least the way I do it, it comes in three forms. Like there's three steps. In the beginning, you're really just trying to get laughs. You're fighting for survival out there. You're scared. That's in the early days of your career. Then you start doing what you think is funny. Like things that would make you laugh. But then in stage three, you start trying to make ideas funny. And you try to cleverly introduce ideas into people's heads that maybe they wouldn't entertain without the humor aspect of it. And so when I write, if I write on a subject, whatever the subject might be, I write without

thinking, oh, I have to make each word funny or I have to make each sentence funny. I write just what are my thoughts on this subject. And then along the way, I find irony and I find ridiculous perceptions and all the things that lead to stand-up comedy material. And then I extract those. Right. And how much of the like humor in the way it just occurs to you spontaneously on the stage? Sometimes a lot. It depends on the subject, but it's always a possibility.

Some of the best lines that have ever come up with in my act, come up with, I come up with on the spot while I'm just talking about things. Right. Well, that should be when you're like into the subject and things are going well with the audience. Yeah. Yeah. That's basically how it goes. It's a tricky business. Yeah, it sounds like an extremely tricky business. And one way the cost of failure is humiliation and emotional pain. Yeah, it's the worst. Yeah, yeah, there's just not there's not that many things that are more embarrassing than like trying to be funny, especially if you've put say a hundred hours

into one hour of preparation, which is less than you're doing. And then finding out that you're just not that amusing. That doesn't sound better than that. Yeah, not good. So how many Netflix specials have you done now? I've done three and I'm working on my fourth one right now, but overall I've done nine different hours of comedy, either comedy album or a video special.

Yeah, what's it be like working for Netflix? It's great. They're very easy. Oh, that's good. They really don't have any notes. They just let me... You know, fortunately I got to them at a stage in my career where I was already advanced and I was already a headliner and I'd already been doing stand-up comedy for decades. So it was good in that sense that I was already advanced and I was already a headliner and I'd already been doing stand-up comedy for decades.

So it was good in that sense that I was well prepared. But when we first signed this initial deal, they were really just wanting me to do what I do best. So they liked it and it's easy. There's no, there's really relatively little input, almost none. Right, so they're not willing to mess with success fundamentally. Yeah, they like what I do. So they're just like, go ahead.

And they know that my goal is to do my best. I'm not trying to, I mean, there are comedians that will release material just for the money. They'll try to capitalize on their fame and put something out that's floppy. And I feel like, for me at least, that's not an option. And that would tape my legacy and tape my body of work. I'm not interested in doing that. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, I've seen your Netflix specials and they're pretty damn funny. Thank you. That little skit you did on the Kardashians. I was a killer, man. Thank you. That little skit you did on the Kardashians. That was killer, man. Thank you.

That's a forever to work out. I had bad way to make fun of that guy. God, it was ridiculous. You make it extremely intense, demonic gargoyle. A very good sense of humor. So that was killing me. I thought, Jesus, he's not going to go there. Is he? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, he's going to go farther. Yeah. It's good. It's good to see that kind of like horrific courage manifest itself on stage. You really like that in a comedian. You know, when you see them get going, and I used to see this with Sarah Silverman.

You could see her eyes sort of flash and she'd think, I shouldn't say that. I just know where you're going to say that. Then she'd say it. You'd think, I shouldn't say that. There's no way I could say that. Then she'd say it, you think, oh, no one should have said that, but man, he was deadly. Yeah, I think all the women doing comedy right now, she's probably the best at that. She can come up with some push in that envelope. Yeah, that's for sure. She's got, there's some very dark recesses in that woman's mind.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the Netflix thing is going well. Do you enjoy, do you enjoy doing that? Yes. Yeah. I enjoy it. What do you like about it? The danger of it, the difficulty, the challenge that one, it's done and people enjoy it that I'm legitimately affecting people. I love that people get a chance to sit down and watch it for an hour, and it'll make them feel better. They'll laugh.

They, it takes them out of the dreary dullness of their day or the agony of whatever they're going through in their life and they're going to escape that for an hour. Yeah, thank God for comedy, man. It's just, what it's just in the same domain as music for necessity. Yeah, I agree. You know there are campuses now where there's like no sarcasm rules, hey? Oh, that's hilarious.

God, can you imagine? I'd lost for 15 seconds. Like, yeah, sarcasm considered a microaggression. It was definitely. Yeah. Well, it's real sarcasm in which case, it's a macroaggression. I just keep thinking that in time, this is going to be one of the most hysterical periods

of time that people look back on, periods of history. Like, you know, when we look at guys with powdered wigs and, you know, preposterous behavior from the past and we go, God, what were they thinking? I really think we're going to do the same thing about today. I think, I think, I hope so.

One of the most, I think for sure. I hope so. That means that we'll be more sane when we're looking back or at least we'll be sane in a different way. And I'm pretty much ready for a different form of insane, personally. Well, I think the insane that you're getting is so, it's so pronounced, and it's so much more intense

that it's less effective. And then the reaction to it is more popular. The negative reaction to a lot of us insane rhetoric and it's insane behavior. It's more popular now to understand how ridiculous some of these people are. When you see what Antifa is doing in Portland blocking traffic and telling people where to go and what to do and then beating people up that don't comply and saying that you're a white supremacist

if you don't listen to them. Like this, all this stuff is so ridiculous, it's so over the top and they keep feeding on themselves. They keep attacking people that are not progressive enough. They keep literally eating their own and it, it, for the, from the outside, from the perspective of the people that don't share their ideology, it looks more and more ridiculous. And that makes them more and more frenzied. And it ramps it all up. And I think it's ultimately going to crash. It's just like

what kind of damage is it going to do the landscape as it's crashing? Right, right. Well, that's, that's's the thing that you know, hopefully can be mitigated so that the landing isn't too hard. Yeah. So I thought, look, every time we've talked, we've talked a lot about me and like I'm quite sick of talking about me actually and probably have been for like a year or maybe even longer. So I thought that it would be really good to talk about you and I'm curious about you because you're such a strange character. And so, you know, in the most interesting of ways. And so I thought I'd like started at the beginning. So I don't know that much about you. So, um, where did you grow up? Well, I grew up in a lot of places. I was born in New Jersey. I lived there until I was seven. My mother

split up from my dad and married my stepdad. We moved to California. We lived in San Francisco from age seven to 11. Then I lived in Florida. He was going to the University of Florida at Gainesville. I lived there from age 11 to right around 13. Then we moved to Boston and I lived in Boston for the next, I guess the next 10 years. And that's really where I grew up. I grew up basically when I think of where I come from, I think of Boston. It's also the place where I started doing stand-up comedy, which means a lot to me. And it's also where I started fighting, so I started doing martial arts. All the significant things that

happened in my life happened in Boston. I see. In my developmental period. So you moved to Boston when you were how old? 13? 13. I see. Right. Right. And then you were there for how many years? 11. 11 years? Oh, yeah. So that's a long time. Yeah. Where do you live in Boston? Newton. Newton upper falls. It's a suburb of Boston. Yeah. Yeah. Nice new England day. Yeah. I love it out there. Yeah. The people have a great sense of humor. It's like Toronto in a way that you have to deal with that wicked winter. And I think that develops character in people. that you have to deal with that wicked winter. And I think that develops character in people. Of course, funny.

When I moved to Boston, because I lived in Alberta and then Montreal. And Montreal is bloody horrible in the winter. And Alberta is even worse. And so I'd go down to Boston, and then I went down there to interview first, and it was February, and it was spring as far as I was concerned. I didn't even have a coat on.

And then when we lived there for years, you know, it was so funny. We lived in this old house by a park and we get those noriesters blow in, you know, with a hurricane level winds and a bloody well snow, three and a half feet. And I'd be thinking in my Canadian way that Jesus, I better not go outside because I'll just freeze to death the second I step outside. But I'd go outside and it was like, well, it was 34 degrees or some damn thing. It was like I was expecting minus 40, you know, just horrible. So my Boston winters never, I mean, apart from the snow, which was, you know, deadly significant, they never really struck me as winter. They sort of struck me as,

well, this is the sort of winter that you'd like to have if you wanted a like a showy winter that people could be pleased with rather than what you just sort of killed you. Yeah. Yeah. Canadians are on another level when it comes to winter. I have some pretty good friends that live in Alberta. And whenever I go up there, it's like, whoa. Yeah, that's where do you go?

Where do you go? They're outside of Edmonton. They're about two and a half hours north of Edmonton. Where? I don't know the name of their town. It's where I go bear hunting That's yeah cuz bear you know you might one thing you notice about bear they have fur See that's making it there human They don't have fur. Yeah, yeah two and a half hours north of Edmonton in the winter. See, they're not there. They don't have fur. They actually live there.

Yeah, two and a half hours north of Edmonton in the winter. Yeah, yeah. It's rugged. Yeah, you go outside in the wrong day and you're out there too long and you die. So yeah, or you run into a grizzly, which is also. Yes, there's also that. Those are nothing to contend. Those are nothing to take lightly, man.

When we used to go camping, especially in British Columbia, Grizzly Bears were always a concern because like a black bear, if it chases you, and first of all, it's only about third the size of a grizzly bear, and it's still pretty big. Like it's a black bear, you know, it's not like a house cat. And if those things chase you and you play dead, they'll usually leave you alone, but if you grizzly chase you and you play dead, they'll usually leave you alone, but if you grisly chase you and you play dead, then it eats you. And then, of course, if you fight back, well, I'd also eat you.

It just maybe get a blow or two in and probably not. So well, believe it or not, more people are preyed upon by black bears. When a black bear attacks you, it's usually because it's trying to eat you. When a grizzly bear attacks people, it's usually either mistake or it was scared or it's really hungry. Yeah, the black bears tend to be like that too.

A lot of them are old if they attack you. Yeah. Yeah. They're getting so they can't catch a real animal. So they're, they'll settle for like an, you know, an arctic monkey with no fat. Yeah, yeah, they're getting so they can't catch a real animal. So they're those saddles like on You know, it's an arctic monkey with no fat So

Yeah, they get desperate. Yeah, so okay, so New Jersey. What do you remember about New Jersey? Ah, boy, that's where I went to Catholic school, which was a a horror in and of itself and It's you know where my relatives live. And I just remember the ethnic Italian environment and what that was like, you know, what it was like being around my relatives around there. Very sopranos-like if you're watching the TV show. Oh, yeah. That's really representative of a lot of New Jersey. Oh, I don't remember too much other than that though. I was pretty little in the left. Do you have relatives out there? I have one uncle. Well two uncles have still lived there.

Do you ever see him? I haven't seen them in years. Okay, so New Jersey, mostly positive memories? Do you think? Or just, I mean, seven and a blow. That's pretty young. So, It's just I mean seven and below that's pretty young. So Well, it's tumultuous time period for me my parents We're always fighting and it just wasn't a good time So when we escape New Jersey it was a relief and that was also when your mom split up from your dad Yeah, and do you do you do you are you in contact with your dad? No, I haven't spoken to him since I was seven years old Is he still alive?

He's still alive and his name is Joe Rogan, which is even crazier huh So you ever think about him? No, no not really. No, no, it's a long time ago. Well, that's huh But and do you remember what he was like to you? He was nice to me. He just wasn't very nice to my mother. They had a very bad relationship.

Right. Right. Okay, so you leave New Jersey and you go to California. Yeah. Where'd you live there? We live in San Francisco. And that was an interesting time for me because it was during the Vietnam War and it was sort of the height of the hippie movement. My stepdad was a hippie. My father was a police officer in New Jersey.

Oh yeah. So I went from being around a cop who was a pretty brutal guy to being around a long hair hippie. It was all about peace and love and an architecture student. It was a completely different sort of vibe. Yeah, it sounds like a completely different sort of vibe. Yeah, it doesn't go around a lot of gay folks. It was around a lot of hippies, a lot of pot smokers, a lot of open-minded thinkers and weirdos around Hade Aspery and that sort of area. We live near Lombard Street. It was a real classic San Francisco in the 70s.

70s. So yeah, so, let's see. So you would have been, you said, seven. How? I guess it was like 74. 70s. It was probably 74 because that was seven years old. Right, I was born in 67. Yeah, so you're five years, so I see you're five years younger than me, so that place is you there. So, yeah, it was still pretty hippie central. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. And then I went from there to Florida, which was like a total polar opposite. You know, that was the first time I'd ever heard anybody say

the N word was in Florida. And I didn't know what it meant. I had asked my mother. My mother got upset at me. She thought, I knew what it meant. I was just playing games. I was like, I don't know what it means. Like, tell me what it means.

She said it's a bad word for black people. And I was like, wow, really? I go, okay. Because I was hearing it all the time. I never heard it in San Francisco. I literally didn't hear it until I was 13 years old, or, excuse me, 11 years old. And so, yeah, so where did it move to Void, Florida? We moved to Gainesville, which is where the University of Florida was, where my stepdad

was going to get a, he was studying architecture. Then we eventually moved to Boston so he could go to the Boston Architectural Center. That's why we wound up moving there. And as your mom and your step did still together? Yep, still together. And do you see them? All the time.

Yeah, they have a great relationship. It's really completely different. They've been together forever. They just, they get a lot of fantastic. In many ways, that sort of modeled my expectations for a real relationship. You know, like I saw the worst and then I saw a really great one. And I'm like, okay, I want that, you know. Yeah, that's a good choice. That's that that shows some wisdom on your part. Pick a second one rather than the first one. Let's say. Yeah. Yeah. And as that worked out, have you had good relationships? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, my wife's awesome. I'd get along with her fantastic. Yeah. And you've been married for how long? Almost 10 years. 10 years. And you have two girls or three. I have three girls. Three girls, right? Yeah. Two young ones and one adult one. Right. I remember on the special that I was referring to that you were Emoting the fact that you are absolutely saturated in a feminine environment Yeah, yeah, it's interesting man. It's interesting, but I think it balances me out. I think ultimately it's probably good for me Yeah, you think it's interesting now you wait till they hit teenage hood Yeah, that it'll be interesting. All right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I actually enjoyed having teenagers, you know, weirdly enough. I mean, we had a good rule in our

house with our kids brought their friends over to our house a lot. Um, and it was funny because when they first came over when my teenagers, friends came over, they were always afraid of me. But after about a month month being there, like getting to know the place a bit, not staying there all the time, obviously, but getting a bit familiar with it, they ended up being a lot more afraid of my wife. So that was great funny.

Because she just looked like she's looked at dangerous on first impressions. And she's kind of soft-spoken, but she's very unforgiving. That might be one way of putting it. And then we had a pretty good rule in our house with the teenage kids, which is, it's a good one to know, which was, look, we're really happy you're here, you know? But if you do something really stupid and we never ever have to see you again, that would

actually be okay with us. That's a good rule. That's a very good rule. That's a good rule. That's a very good rule. They also knew we meant it. And so the kids could have their friends over. They could have a reasonable amount of fun. Or maybe even a slightly unreasonable amount of fun. But they couldn't have an overwhelmingly unreasonable amount of fun.

So the great way to put it. Overwhelmingly unreasonable amount of fun is the great way to put it. Overwhelmingly unreasonable amount of fun is a great way to put it. Yeah, that was too much. We had a good drug policy too, I think. How'd that go? I think it went well. The rule was, look, I know perfectly well you're going to experiment. They were going to our art school, you know, it's like, Oh, for sure. I think I think that one of the majors like pot smoking and experimentation, like there was just no way they weren't going to experiment. And my rule was, I better not be able to tell because you're being too much of a fool. So if you're going to

experiment, you better handle it because otherwise you're pathetic. And that seemed to be pretty good. Well, that's, you know, because I thought, I really thought it through, you know, because there's a literature on experimentation among adolescents, both criminal experimentation, you know, delinquency, minor delinquency, and that sort of thing, and drug use. And you get pathology at both ends. The ones who are, you know, smoke a party every day and take a drugs on a regular basis, their outcomes not so good.

But the ones who abstain completely and never experiment, their outcome is also not so good. They tend to be on the dependent, anxious end of the distribution. And so, you know, you want your kids to, well, play with the rules a little bit, but then I thought, well, what, so okay, you got to play with the rules a little bit. But then I thought, well, what's so okay? You got to play with the rules a little bit. What are the rules about playing with the rules? And one should be try not to be a bigger fool than necessary. That's a good one. So you're

not compromising yourself in the present. But the biggest issue, I think really, and I think this is the fundamental rule for experimentation with adolescents is you don't get to screw up your future. Yeah. Right? Because that's the killer. Well, what I worry about more than anything is opioids. I worry about those because people are dying from them.

You know, no one's dying from pot. It's very rare that anybody is doing something so stupid that they put their life in danger from pot or mushrooms. I'm worried about the ones that kill you. You know, I mean, I worry about pills more than anything that my children might possibly face, especially when I consider the fact that these opiate manufacturers, these opioid manufacturers,

they keep making these damn things stronger and I don't understand. I mean, it's not like oxycontin wasn't strong enough as it is, but now they have fentanyl. And now they're coming up with things that are stronger than fentanyl. It's disgusting. Yeah, well, it's a weird arms race, eh? Because, I mean, this is something that's really an unexpected consequence of the of the illegalization of drugs is that now we've generated all these chemists who are really good at making tiny variations on every psychoactive substance known and now instead of like 10 addictive substances you can get

yourself into serious trouble with there's 300. Yeah. It doesn't seem to be a big plus. No, it doesn't. It's disturbing and it's disgusting. And you know, they're finally starting to bring some of these guys to justice and they're arresting some of these people and bringing them to court. Some of these manufacturers, they've been pushing this stuff down. People's throw it for years. And it's like devising doctors to subscribe years. And it's like advising doctors to subscribe

them. And it's, you know, it's a tough one, man. Like my, when my daughter was sick, when she was a kid, she was in extreme, it's got to be agony. It's the right word, you know, for like two years, about that, because she was walking around on two broken legs. You know her story a little bit. because she was walking around on two broken legs. You know her story a little bit. And the physician had sick kids, which was the person who was dealing with her arthritis would only prescribe her basically, you know, anison, you know, minor league over the counter pain killers,

which was like trying to kill her, grizzly bear with a fly swatter. It really wasn't right the right tool for the job. And we found a family doctor who had enough courage to prescribe a oxy-contin. That was no joke, you know, because the first couple of weeks she was on oxy-contin. It was really odd and rough because it was like she was drunk. And so that was, well, that was weird socially, to say the least, and also rather frightening, but it did control her pain.

And we actually had the mix oxy-contin with riddolin, which is a strange combination, but a good one to know about, because oxy-contin sedates and riddolin stimulates, but the combination of the two are synergistic, so they can really control pain. And so her pain was controlled enough so that it didn't drive her insane over about a two-year period. And then once she got her operations and had her legs fixed, she went off the opiates. And she went through the whole withdrawal stick, you know, she had like nice sweats and she had

ants crawling under her skin and like, it was pretty brutal, although she stopped cold turkey and never tried them again. She hated them. She said they just made her feel dead. And it's funny, a lot of people, you know, a lot, you hear there's horror stories that, you know, if you try opus once, you're pretty much screwed because they're so wonderful, but lots of people don't like them. But there is a sizeable minority of people, you know, who really liked them. And then there is the danger that you described

of overdose, and that's, you know, that's a frightening thing. Hopefully your kids aren't enough to stay mostly away from pills. Yeah, hopefully. What do you know, you gotta worry about the influence of their friends and peer pressure. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Well, the terrible thing about teenagers, you know, is that everybody always says, well, why do you succumb to peer pressure when you're a teenager? And the answer is, well, that's why you're a teenager. You know, you're getting away from your family and you're even getting away from your like elementary school best friend

and you're starting to join the broader social group. And your job is to fit in. Like not to fit in so much that there's nothing left of you, you know, but your job is to fit in to the tribe, to the group and to learn how to do that. And of course the downside is, well, you're susceptible to peer pressure, but it's hard to distinguish that from actually being properly socialized. The two things are very tightly aligned. Hmm. All right.

So, so you were in Florida and you learned, you learned some words that, that you didn't know. And what was Florida like for you? You were there only for a couple of years. Yeah. Florida is a strange place. I mean, I still have a love, hate relationship with Florida. It's the land of the lost. It's where people go to escape wherever they're from.

Billy Corbin, who's a documentary director, he directed Cocaine Cowboys, and a bunch of other great documentaries. He lives down in Florida. And every time he and I talk, we just talk about how ridiculous Florida is. And it's this place where people go to escape. They go to escape from the brutal cold of the Northeast winter, or they go, oh,

Jesus, my phone is telling me that I'm running out of batteries. I'm going to have to switch headsets and plug this in, but it only takes a second. That should be fine. But I just think that Florida is just like a uniquely stupid place. It's a weird place, you know? It's one of the things that's really struck me about the United States. It's really different than Canada for what that's worth. It's not like American, it's really caravwide. The United States is different than Canada, apart from the fact that it isn't freezing cold six months of the year. There's a lot of the US, it's like a movie set. You know, so much of it is like it's manufactured to look like something else. Florida is really like that. Yeah.

It's a very strange place to visit, because everything is not in the old towns, but the beach towns are like that a lot. There's some genuine old Florida, but most of it is it's manufactured fake utopia, for exactly the sort of people that you're describing. Yeah. You know, that doesn't make it unbearable or anything. I mean, the weather is nice and the beach is nice and, you know, there's worse places to live, but there's something about it that's like a, I don't, it's like a,

aha, that's a read, it's got this, well, obviously, it's like a resort, but resorts have that sort of fake, you told me an element to them that is, I don't know what it's like exactly, kind of like a child fantasy or an adolescent fantasy, something like that, you know, it's what you think you want Yeah, if you don't think about it very hard. I always say that if you want to starve to death open up a bookstore in Miami Like legitimately this does no reading going on down there. It's just a strange place or people go to party and

It's just a strange place or people go to party and it's weird. Right now I have to warn you that there is a beam of light shooting directly out of your head. Oh right here. Yeah it's very impressive and I move it around. There we go. Yeah that's probably better because you know I had to plug in because the power was dying on my phone. I guess just video stuff sucks a lot of power out of your phone. I guess so. I guess so. I mean, I didn't like the whole thing shooting out of your head, but you never know.

You don't want to get any rumors on the internet. No, I guess that is. Well, yeah, you amongst all people know how easy that is. Hey, I haven't been in this scandal for a whole week. Well, this podcast is still young. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. We might be able to cover something that will cause trouble.

With any luck. Yeah, you are. And all the people that I'm friends with, you are probably the most misrepresented friend that I have. And I defend you quite often and I don't get where people are coming from with you. I don't understand their inability to listen to your words. And instead, they try to generalize and formulate these distorted descriptions of who you are and what you stand for. And it's very strange to me. And I don't know. I mean, I kind of do know that you're challenging.

A lot of people's beliefs and the way they structured these beliefs, but it's very frustrating to me. And I'm sure it must be way more frustrating for you. Well, it's kind of, it's surreal to me because I was talking with my kids about this the other day. You know, the way people think I am, especially if they read, the hit pieces that the journalists have written, and maybe even watch me in those interactions,

they think I'm provocative and they think I like combat and conflict. I'm not combat, actually. I really don't like conflict that much. I go out of my way quite a bit to avoid it. And, you know, I'm a sorgynist except that almost all the people I've ever worked with in my whole life have been women and I've been in a women-dominated field. And I never thought of myself as right-wing, that's for sure. I mean, maybe now that the far left is gone completely off

the deep end, it's like, well, maybe I'd be classified as a conservative, but that's mostly because as a social scientist, I learned that you shouldn't conduct large-scale experiments on huge swaths of the population and assume that your stupid idea is going to work out correctly because it won't. You can't even get people to behave properly in a lab for like half an hour. So how you think you're going to get a whole society to do what you want, you know, as a consequence of passing a piece of legislation is beyond me. But yeah, it's, and here's something else that's weird, you know, like if you read the newspapers on this, this new, you knew I got disinvited from Cambridge, Cambridge Divinity School. I mean,

what, what a thing to be disinvited from, a Divinity School. It's crazy. You have to be Satan himself to get disinvited from a Divinity School. And well, it's so, it's so crazy. You know, and I just wanted to go down there and learn some more about the biblical stories, the Exodus stories, that was the idea. And then to get disinvited to have that be a whole big scandal, it was just like, what the hell, man, it's quite the crazy situation. And then, so you read about all this, and you see this online, and you think, God, his life must just be hell, because of all the controversy. But then then when I go out in the streets, or to my lectures or anywhere, it's completely different. It's unbelievably different.

Like, so now if I walked it, walked down the street, I mean, when you walk down the street, you must just get, I, you just must get identified all the time. A, yeah. Like if you go out in an hour, how many people will come up to you? Depends where I go, but if I'm in Hollywood, it's pretty, pretty crazy. But if I go around young people,

if you see men and then shaved heads and tattoos, it gets nuts. What? Those are my people. How particular men. Oh, yeah. So if I go out, you know, it gets nuts. What? Those are my people. A particular man. So if I go out, you know, and I'm walking down the street and it doesn't really matter where, usually I get approached five or six times in an hour by people and you know,

they're always very polite and they're very apologetic and they are happy about something they've read or listened to or whatever, or often they talk about our podcasts. That's pretty damn common. That was common throughout Europe as well. And they tell me about some dark part of their life and how they're doing much better and how their friends have been watching my videos and are feeling better about it. So it's just ridiculously positive, just all the time.

And then when I go to my lectures, it's the same thing. It's like crazily positive. So we've had 350,000 people at the lectures so far. And there hasn't been one negative occurrence. We had one Hechler once who was rapidly escorted from the building. He knew he was going to get escorted, so he was kind of a cooperative Hecler, but like no one's coming there with anything negative on their mind. They're listening to a psychological lecturing to have a deep discussion and to try to get their act together,

and but God damn journalists, they just don't seem to be able to fathom that. Like they've got this false cynicism or maybe real cynicism that makes it absolutely impossible for them to believe that tens of thousands of people could actually be serious about improving their life and that I could be having events that were basically 100% positive. And so online, I'm a bloody monster. You know, I'm a misogynist and racist and a transphobic and what else am I? I'm a homophobic and a Nazi lots of times and sometimes a Jewish shill and well there's a bunch of other things too. What's certain about you is when they pulled your books out of New Zealand, when a New Zealand bookstore decided to pull your books because of the Christchurch

massacre, like what does a book on self-improvement and taking responsibility? What does that have to do with a horrific mass murder? I mean, the idea that they connected those two together and that they decided that in some way or shape your words of encouragement and recognizing the importance of discipline and of taking responsibility and self-reliance that those things, your book somehow or another had something to do with someone doing something as awful as what happened at Christchurch. It's so distorted and that's like the perfect example that I cite

when I say, like think about the fact that this guy's book was removed. And right after something had taken place and had literally nothing to do with anything you've ever said ever. Yeah, well, they kind of got their come-up in some ways because people started to point out that they were still carrying mine camps. Oh, God. So that turned out to be a problem. And then they were also carrying a book that showed you how to turn a semi-automatic into a fully automatic. And so, you know, you got to be careful when you go after someone for their sins that you don't have a few sins

your own like lying around where people can, you know, sort of observe them. Anyways, they gave me reverse that decision, but, but, that's good. Yeah, yeah, that was good, but it is, it's very weird. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and I'm going to the UK here right away. Now we're talking about me and we weren't supposed to be, but I'm going to the UK right away

because the paperback is launching there, and so I'm gonna be talking to journalists and talking to UK journalists, man. That's like jumping into a tub of, well, not full grown crocodiles, but like, like, like, swimmers, anyways. So what you're trying to say is, yeah, they're pretty snappy. So I've got some trepidation about that. So it's a funny life to be involved in, and I'm not exactly ever sure what to make of it on a day-to-day basis.

But it does give me a chance to talk to you. So that's what's most secure for you is that you were not famous for most of your adult life. And then over the last four years, you've been catapulted and become one of the most famous, if not the most famous, psychologist on the planet Earth. Yes, it's very disconcerting. It's hard to get it. It's actually rather hard to adjust to that.

I mean, maybe it's a function of age. I found, you know, when I was younger and I used to move from place to place, take me about a year to adapt, okay? But I also noticed that as I got older, every time I moved, it took me longer to adapt. By the time you're 56, you know, if you know someone for 10 years,

it's like you feel like you just started to get to know them a bit. You know, when you're 17, you have a roommate for six months and it's like your best friends for the rest of your life. So, it is a very difficult thing to adapt to. I can't really wrap my mind around it. And I guess it's also partly because it's true no matter where I go.

Like, I went to Slovenia, you know, and it's everybody speaks English in Slovenia, by the way. And you are a big hit in Slovenia. I don't know if you know this, but it looks to me like the podcast YouTube world has even more impact in places where the press is not very reliable. And so, like everybody knew about our, everybody knew about our interviews and our podcasts.

And so I was stopped in Slovenia constantly, which is, that was a real shock too. So the shock is, and this is the weird thing about YouTube, and about podcasts is that it's not, it's just not one country or two countries. It's like every damn country. And so it's, but I'm really fortunate, I'm really fortunate, because like I said,

all the public encounters I have are extremely positive. They're hard to cope with, though, in some sense, because people are always, they always tell me a serious story. You know, they say, I was in some sort of hell of some sort six months ago, too much drugs or alcohol or bad relationship

or not getting along with my family or under employer, nihilistic or depressed, whatever, you know, like whatever little corner of hell they have to occupy and they've been practicing something like maybe developing a vision for their life or trying to live a more meaningful life or taking more responsibility or like really making an effort to pull their families together and to advance at work, regardless of what their job is. And it's working. And so they're always like shell-shocked at it's working and thrilled to death.

But it's so strange to have these intense, 20-second, 30-second conversations with people about really deep elements of their life. And then, you know, it's a shock. And then you walk along the street, and it's a normal day. And then someone else comes up and does the same thing. It's like, I don't know what to do with it emotionally. It's, it's, because maybe, you know,

someone might tell you that, I don't know, maybe they tell you that's something. If you've been helping them, maybe they tell you that once a year, once every five years or something, but to have it happen all the time is, I don't know, I think it fills me with a kind of sorrow, like I'm really happy that it's happening and everything, but there's still something about it that's deeply and deeply moving and difficult to adjust to.

And deeply moving and difficult to adjust to. The sorrow because so many people are struggling out there and that you're excited about these photos. Well, the sorrow is that there's so many people struggling out there and they don't have this sort of, they have so little support that my lectures and podcasts in the book were what was necessary to help them straighten themselves out. It's like, you know, you just can't imagine how many people out there haven't heard an encouraging word.

Yeah. You know, it's like they're home on the, what's the old song and home on the range? Yeah. Except that's where you don't hear a discouraging word. Well, these people have never heard an encouraging word. And that's, it's sad to see how common that is and how little it takes to turn that around. And it's so fun out in the lectures. Because, you know, a lot of the people in my lectures are, crack, they're the same people you were talking about that stop you at Hollywood. You know, they're kind

of rough working class guys. That'd be about 30% of my audience, I would say, you know, and they're not the sort of people that you would stereotypically presume would come to an hour and a half lecture on, you know, philosophy and psychology, but man, they're listening, they're listening like mad. And it's so fun and interesting to watch them think it through and to take this seriously. And, you know, they come up afterwards and they say, I've been watching your lectures and I'm a much better husband or I'm a much better father.

And sometimes they have their girlfriend or wife with them. And she says the same thing. And it's really nice, man. Yeah, it's really something. Well, you really are making a giant impact. And it's only understandable that it would be difficult for you to wrap your head around what this is. And it's not something that very few human beings ever get to experience.

It's a very, very, very tiny percentage of our population worldwide is ever put into position like you're put into. So, let's look at your position. I mean, I asked you this at one time. So last time we talked I think you were getting some hundred million downloads a month on your podcast. Yeah, what are your figures? If you if you don't mind, what are your figures? Probably double that double that. Jesus Christ. That's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's crazy Especially with YouTube with the YouTube and all the YouTube clips and it's it's it's actually probably more than that It's nuts. I it's gone to the point where I Try to pay as little attention to the numbers as possible and just concentrate on doing the show

Because I think if I pay attention to it too much Excuse me. I think if I pay attention to it too much or am I losing my mind? I mean, it's just it's Untenable that's is the sheer volume of human beings. If you were ever on a stage and you were looking out at 300 million people, what would that look like? It's not 300 million people because it's 300 million downloads in a month. But the real number of human beings you're interacting with, I mean, I don't know what that is. It's 50 million people.

I don't know how many actual million people are listening to the show or watching the show on a regular basis. But it's an unmanageable number in terms of like reading comments or trying to pay attention to what they want or what they don't want. It's very strange. Yes, it's a very weird position to be in. There's no doubt. And the strange thing is too, is that,

well, we've talked about this before too. Like, this is early days, right? I mean, this has only been happening for about, how long have you been doing your YouTube videos? The YouTube videos are only a few years. So, I think it's only three or four years. The podcast will be 10 years in December. Right.

Okay. So 10 years, that's starting to become a decent chunk of life, but three or four years, that's still new. Yeah. And I mean, the podcast market and the YouTube market are still, they're brand new technologies fundamentally. Yeah, fundamentally. And now you're seeing corporations trying to capitalize on it.

And I've started to get these very bizarre offers to make my podcast exclusive on this platform or that platform. And these companies are throwing crazy amounts of money around that podcast, like networks, hundreds of millions of dollars to buy podcast networks. So it's becoming very, very strange because what was a joke five or six years ago, literally like why are you wasting your time doing the podcast? I used to hear that all the time.

Now it's, how did you do this? How did you make this podcast so popular? That's a totally different question, very quickly. Yeah, well, it's so strange because so many people have Nobody realized that there is a an audience for on demand audio and you see the same thing Not that but not just on demand audio, but long-form conversation Yeah, one of the I mean even my friend Ari who's one of my best friends would always tell me you got to edit your shows Nobody wants to listen to anything that's three hours long. So I'd say well, then they don't have to listen I mean, even my friend, Ari, who's one of my best friends, would always tell me, you gotta edit your shows.

Nobody wants to listen to anything that's three hours long. So I'd say, well, then they don't have to listen. And he's like, ah, you're doing yourself a disservice. I'm like, I don't think I am. Like, if someone only has an hour, then listen to it for an hour. Like, you're not gonna, I mean, you might miss out some information,

but it's not gonna change your life. Do whatever you wanna do, but I like talking to people for long periods of time because I think you really only get cooking after the first half hour or 40 minutes. That's when you get comfortable, you sort of get into a groove of communication, figuring out this person's rhythm and thought processes.

And then as you expand on these ideas and you share information back and forth with each other after an hour and hour and a half, two hours, that's when things really start getting deep and oftentimes the last hour of a three-hour podcast is the best hour. Yeah, well that intuition was certainly right and revolutionary. You never know when you come up with a revolutionary idea. Yeah, I mean, part of my revolutionary idea is just me being stubborn. Just like I didn't care.

I wasn't doing it for money. So the only reason why I was doing it was because I enjoy talking to people like you or Emilia and my other guests. I wanna talk to, it's a very rare opportunity where I would get a chance to sit down with someone like you with no distractions, no other people in the room, no cell phones, and just talk with the re-hours.

That's so unusual in our world and our constantly distracted world. And I think I've gotten a fantastic education because of that. I mean, it's really enlightening me on so many different subjects and expanded my understanding of people in general. And conspiracy theories. I mean, man, you're up on those. That's got some of those, too. Yeah, so that's important to be up on the conspiracy theories just to keep track of the

damn things. Well, you got to know what people think of you, you know, I've been lately on a Zionist shill. This is the most recent one. I didn't know it was a Zionist shill. Oh, yeah, your Zionist shill. Yeah, I'm a white supremacist too, depending on who you ask. Yeah, yeah, well, I've got those two things as well. So, and that's like, it's real interesting to be able to juggle both of those identities. It's like good luck with Zionist. One. White supremacist the next. It's sort of like a gender fluid,

except on the political spectrum. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah, everyone, why do you have to be conservative or Democrat? You know, sometimes you're one and sometimes the other depends on the day. And there's no reason to stand that like all the way out to the edges.

You know, so gender fluid is my favorite. That's my favorite thing It's going on right now or someone could be like a woman for a few hours and then be a man for the next six You know, I read that back and forth. I read although I don't know if this is true But I but I read it several places and I actually looked I read that the Olympic Committee is gonna let trans people compete in the Olympics in the next competition. I'm not surprised because the Olympic, the IOC, the Olympic Committee is incredibly corrupt. And I think what they do, first of all, is disgraceful.

They make billions of dollars. The athletes make zero. I think it's disgraceful. They make billions of dollars. The athletes make zero. I think it's disgusting. I think everything about what they do is corrupt and the idea that they're there for fair and pure competition is nonsense. They're there to make shit loads of money and that's what they're good at. What they're good at doing is putting on these gigantic events where they profit in spectacular and staggering ways. And the athletes dedicate their entire life to these moments and they literally make nothing.

And then after that, if they're lucky, if they're very famous and popular, they can eke out a living with endorsements. Or, you know, for the rare person like Michael Phelps or someone like that who's just a true outlier They can actually get wealthy from it, but it's very very rare Most of those athletes will be in severe debt most of those athletes either have to get sponsored or they have to find someone who is willing to Share the burden and help them achieve their goals, but without some sort of altruistic benefactor who's got millions of dollars to pour into their camp. I mean, it's just it's disgusting. They're professional athletes. I mean, that's what they do with their entire life.

If you want to win a gold medal in the Olympics in gymnastics, you can't have a side job, you can't be working eight hours a day. No, you have to be a professional athlete. And the Olympic Committee knows this. And if you've ever paid attention to how they've let people get away with cheating, I mean, there's a fantastic documentary out right now by Brian Vogel called Icarus. It's all about the Sochi Olympics and how Russia cheated in the Sochi Olympics and the IOC barely punished them. They punished a few people and how the IOC and the world anti-doping agency, they have people from each organization, they share,

like they go back and forth, they work for one and they work for the other, and they're totally in conflict. It's a total conflict of interest, and it's a dirty business. So if the tide of political perception is that it's a good progressive thing to have trans women competing in the UFC,

or not in the U.S., shouldn't say the UFC, because that'll never happen. But trans women competing in the Olympics and that this was what everybody wanted, they would just do it. They would do it regardless of whether or not it's fair, regardless of whether or not it made sense and they would do it just to get more eyes on the show,

just to get more money. And that's what they're there for. That's what they're good at. Fascinating to see how all that plays out, because it's so absurd. I was looking, I looked up some stats the other day because I was curious, you know, it's like, okay. I know that all the differences between men

and women are socially constructed, but nonetheless, I went looked up the biological comparison of strength. You know, and the typical woman has 30% of the upper body strength of the typical man, and about 55% of the lower body strength. Now that's like that's a big difference, man. That makes the average man three times as strong an upper body. Jesus, that gives you an advantage. It's just, well, it's

criminal. Well, it is, but the question is how much do you lose from the conversion? How much do you lose from estrogen? You lose some. But if a woman, say, look, if you have an athlete who's a woman who's 32 years old, and it turns out that she's been taking steroids her entire adult life. So she's been taking steroids for 12 years every day and then decides to stop taking them right before the Olympics. Wouldn't everybody agree that she has a massive advantage?

Wouldn't everybody agree that most likely her tendons strength, her muscle strength, her bone structure, all of that has been completely altered by taking performance enhancing drugs? We would all agree to that. Well guess what? That's what you're doing if you're a man for 30 years, and then you decide to transition and become a woman for two. Even if you're taking estrogen.

Even if you go through this. I don't understand. It's apart from the obvious unfairness of that. What I struggle with understanding is the triumphalism of the victors. It's like they enter these contests and then they win and then they celebrate their victory as if it's our genuine victory, despite the fact that wiped out these women who've been working mostly within the rules for like, you know, maybe not decades, but certainly many, many years in succession.

And they just blow them away, especially in like strength contests. And then they actually treat that like they won, and then they also claim it as a moral victory. You know, and for me, that's just that I the only thing I see in that is the narcissism that's so deep that it's almost unfathomable. It's like, how can you take pride in that sort of victory unless you don't see who it is that you're defeating? I don't get it.

Well, it shows how pathological this whole thing really is when you're dealing with the idea that you can turn a person into someone of the opposite gender, not just recognize them as being a woman and treat them as a woman and allow them to use whatever name they would like. I'm all for that, but it's that you are going to say, no, this is a woman and she should be able to compete with women, including in combat sports, rugby, there's a male to female trans athlete

that plays rugby in Australia, that's 240 pounds, and just smashing women. And I don't think there's any real standards in a universal in terms of like What do you have to go through in terms of your conversion therapy and like what what about size differences when you're dealing with high impacts for no No, that's a political minefield like the right the radical end of it is well You're the gender that you say you are and the medical conversion is irrelevant.

And I don't know how that translates into the sports world, but my sense is that if the same thing happens in the sports world that's happened in the political world, that it will be basically indistinguishable from whim. It's like, well, now I'm a woman. Yeah, I had a guy on my podcast recently, and this came up, and it was a big argument. And essentially his stance was, he is all for inclusiveness, and he would like to move towards a world where trans athletes can compete, and they're included, and they can compete as women. And I was trying to explain the benefits

of being a male, the physical benefits of being a male and competing against women. And you know, he just said, wanna hear it. It was just in denial of it. It was going against these preconceived notions that he had and that this, and the ideology, there's a part of progressive ideology that is you're supposed to look at a trans woman as every bit a woman.

Yeah, well that's because you're supposed to accept the doctrine that all differences between men and women are socially constructed, which is of course a doctrine that's, I think, nonsense. It's delusional. Yeah, it's nonsense. It's, and it's delusional for some even deeper reason that's even harder to fathom. And I don't know what it is.

Yeah, it is hard to fathom. I don't, I don't understand the root of it. I really don't. Even when I talk to people who subscribe to these notions, I don't understand the logic. I don't understand where's the breakdown in their perception of the world where they don't see. And another thing that we got is. Go ahead. Go ahead. Now, another thing that we got into was children transitioning.

Oh, yeah. And then he was in the form. Oh, I keep hearing this. This is something that I keep hearing is driving me mad. That hormone blockers, that these puberty blockers are reversible. They keep saying that, like they're harmless, they're reversible. If the child changes their mind, they could always just get off the, and the results are reversible. That's not true. You're affecting the development of a child.

If you're using these hormone blockers, you are changing the way the child is going to develop because they're not going to have testosterone where a normal boy would, if they're transitioning from male to female. If you're doing this to a six-year-old kid, the notion that this is completely reversible is completely disingenuous because that child is not going to go through the same developmental period physically as they would if they had access to testosterone. They're just not. It's just not true. It's not true if you talk to medical doctors.

It's not true if you talk to a biologist. It's just not true. It's something that they use to try to justify the, in air quotes, harmlessness of this particular type of therapy that they're encouraging. And it's just, it's just to say that there's nothing wrong with being trans. And I don't think there is anything wrong with being trans,

but I think there is something wrong with making decisions for a child or allowing a child to make decisions that will massively impact them for the rest of their life and to make that decision when you're six. Like, I could only imagine if I was a person who had gone through that and then having this conversation with my parents going, why the fuck did you let me make that decision at six years old? Well, it's going to be really interesting to see that play itself out in the courts in about 12 years.

Oh, it's going to be ugly. It's going to be ugly. And it's going to be ugly, man, because I, yeah, you don't let, you don't want to let your game six-year-old get a tattoo. Right, exactly. I mean, a tattoo is fairly reversible. The whole thing about it is nonsense. And it's this whole progressive ideology that there's subscribing to. There's a doctrine, like, you have to to there's all these different things that you have to subscribe to if you want to accept that ideology

Yes, this is one of them little gods that you have to work. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, trans children You can't you can't say yeah, that is problematic. You can't you're not allowed to say that you can't even entertain the notion that this could be a particularly egregious offense on a child if they decide that that was a bad idea when they become 18 or 19. If the primary idea is that our society is an oppressive patriarchy, and I think that's like number one idea, then anything that touches on that in any way immediately becomes untouchable. And so in order for the adults to make the decision, then you have to believe in authority because the adults have the authority.

And if you're going to believe that the adults have the authority, then you have to believe that hierarchy has some value. And then that tangles you up with your insistence that, you know, hierarchy is definitely oppressive and especially the Western form of hierarchy. And so I think that central axiom is so vital that anything that gets near it gets twisted in bent like it's too close to a gravitational field

and the logic is irrelevant because that fundamental central issue has to be supported at all cost. Well, this is one of the conundrums of our conversation. One of the, we came to this one point where I said, now if a child identifies as a girl, I said, why not just let them be a girl? Why do you have to fuck with their hormones? Why do you have to effectively be a girl?

Yeah, if it's all nonsense. I mean, this is my take on all of this. Like, just be a girl. Anything where you need a major science to consistently, yeah, right? Anything where you need medical science to consistently inject chemicals into your body, they're going to alter your hormones irreversibly at a very young age. Like, why is that natural? Why are you saying this is what this person biologically or psychologically needs? Are you sure? It seems like

something that human beings have constructed. Well, it's particularly damn weird if you insist that gender is a social construct. Yes. Like if it's a social construct, then what the hell are the hormones for? Exactly. So that was my point. Yeah. And he it's a social construct, then what the hell are the hormones for? Exactly. So that was my point. Yeah. And he didn't have an answer to that. No, no, that's a rough one, man.

That's that's. Yeah. Okay, so we're going to go back to Boston. Okay. Okay. If you found this conversation meaningful, you might think about picking up dad's books, Maps of Meaning, The Architecture of Belief, or his newer bestseller, 12 Rules for Life and Antidote to chaos.

Both of these works delve much deeper into the topics covered in the Jordan B. Peterson podcast. See JordanBeePeterson.com for audio, e-book, and text links, or pick up the books that your favorite bookseller. We'll get to Joe's time in Boston next week, along with how we got into martial arts. Insecurities is a young teen, his odd jobs, kind of a more personal look at Joe's life. He delves into his experiences teaching martial arts,

how we got into stand-up comedy, his many surgical procedures, something I can relate to. Next week's episode will be a great finish to their conversation. Talk to you guys then, hope you enjoyed. Follow me on my YouTube channel, Jordan B. Peterson. On Twitter, at Jordan B Peterson on Twitter at Jordan B Peterson on Facebook at Dr. Jordan B Peterson and at Instagram at Jordan.b. Peterson details on this show access to my blog information about my

tour dates and other events and my list of recommended books can be found on my website JordanB Peterson.com. My online writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts, understand themselves in the present, and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found at selfauthoring.com. That's selfauthoring.com. From the Westwood One Podcast Network. from the Westwood One Podcast Network.