The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1000: Facing Father Figure's Fatality and Faults | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

Though he was your father figure, mourning the stepdad your sisters accused of abuse feels like betrayal. How should you feel? Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Though he was your father figure, mourning the stepdad your sisters accused of abuse feels like betrayal. How should you feel? You're talented and successful in your field, but lately you're feeling drained, unmotivated, and disconnected from your passion. What steps can you take to rediscover your love for your craft? You fell for an online scam that cost you thousands of dollars and left you feeling ashamed and depressed. How will you move past the embarrassment and learn to protect yourself better in the future? Your long-time business partner and close friend didn't reach out after your company shut down, despite your history of supporting him through personal and professional challenges. Can you find a way to process the grief and betrayal? Your significant other refuses to go to therapy or work on their personal growth, even though it's causing your relationship to stagnate. Will you be able to accept their limitations or decide to move on? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1000 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps!...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

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Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Wow, it's a little extra peppy today. Sorry about that, folks. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my Comet partner and life advice,

commie P, if you will. Gabriel Mizrahi. That's commie for Comet, not commie for communists, just to be, just to be clear. That's right. Although some of your clothes and accessories do give off a certain communitarian vibe.

That's fair. Yeah. My now infamous Vermillion shirt, That was the real Red Scare. I think we can all agree. Right. Exactly. That and the patchy shingles rash you got from it.

That was the other part of the Red Scare. Containment is the only strategy for wardrobe choices like that. Got to contain that. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety.

of amazing folks from mafia enforcers, arms dealers, hostage negotiators to astronauts, Fortune 500 CEOs, and rocket scientists. This week we had Todd McFarlane, who is none of those things, actually, on the business of comics and toys, which I know sounds pretty pedestrian, but turns out to be kind of a crazy adventure because apparently the business of comics and toys is kind of locked down by the old guard. And Todd McFarland's like, nah, I'm just going to do it my way. And he's just like, now he's got the third largest comic company in the world. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play the occasional obnoxious soundbite, and generally stand in awe of the crazy and enlightening ish that life serves up. As you guys can see, today is episode 1,000 here on the show,

which might explain the extra pep in the show open there. It's a wild milestone for us and a very special one. It was only, was it six years ago? Yeah, it was six years ago and change that I started this new show. I should say we've started this new show because I did need help from a ton of people and I couldn't afford to pay them initially. I've basically been heads down every week focusing on the next guest, the next interview, the next topic, and suddenly here we are

with a thousand episodes in the back catalog, which is honestly kind of stunning. And you know what's weird? It doesn't feel like it took that much time or that much work. I mean, I know we've done a ton of work. Like, objectively, there's a thousand hours of content, right? So that's a lot, but it doesn't feel like,

oh my gosh, how can I do a thousand more? It feels like, of course we're going to do a thousand more. And then a thousand more after that, unless I get hit by a dump truck, which is, you know, non-zero chance of that. It has to be a dump truck. Nothing else will put a stop to this. Yield Zamboni.

That's right. A listener hit me up a few weeks back asking if we were going to do some kind of best-of or highlights episode to celebrate. And while it's a nice idea, and it might have been super fun, I've never really thought about doing anything like that. I rarely do the look back. I just wanted to do a normal episode today. Normal in terms of how we usually do.

You know, we're still going to feature the usual feedback Friday crazy, but I just wanted to do it with a little extra. recognition for the fact that the show has gotten to this point. But the whole idea got me thinking about why I'm not usually one for milestones. I didn't attend my high school graduation. I was overseas. And what's funny is they called my name and all of my friends had to be like, he's in Germany. Jordan Harbinger. He's in Germany. Jordan Harbinger, he's in Germany. Like just screaming. He's not here. And they're like, oh, Germany. All right, that's weird. Like, no, it isn't. You haven't seen them all year. I didn't go to my college graduation.

which I didn't even know colleges really did that. I guess, I mean, it makes sense. I've seen commencement speeches, so I'm not sure why I thought the University of Michigan didn't have that. Oh, you had to buy tickets. I was like, no, I'm not buying tickets. I didn't go to my law school graduation.

Actually, that's not entirely true. I went to my law school graduation, and I sat in the audience, and a bunch of the professors and other people saw me, and they're like, aren't you in this class? And I said, yeah, but, you know, I didn't register in time.

They're like, we would have gotten you a cap this morning if you needed to, come on. And I was just like, eh, I'm good. I was supposed to be traveling, my flight got changed, so I was like, I'll stop by because I'm already here. I'm just not big on celebrating stuff like that. I've never really been sure why.

It never appealed to me. I think I'm always on to the next thing. And I don't like to look back too much because, like, I don't know, what's the point? I'm more excited about what's next and what's ahead. While nostalgia can be fun, I think it can also be a little dangerous. Maybe I could afford to be a little more sentimental. I certainly have with my kids. I'm not like, okay, they're little now, but when they're older, it's going to be great.

I'm like really enjoying every moment with my kids. But for myself, these, I rarely ever go, like I never apply for awards for this podcast, in part because I'm offended that you have to pay to apply. I feel like that's a scam. There's a million other things that I just don't celebrate in my life. Like my birthday, people are like, isn't it a your birthday?

And I'm like, yeah, the end. Regardless, this 1,000 episode milestone, it really does mean a lot to me, even though we didn't end up doing something big like a remix or an interview with Vladimir Putin or whatever. But the reason it means so much to me is that it's a reflection of this incredible team

that I have, the beautiful community that we've built, the amazing show family that listened several times a week. Your support over the years has been everything. And it is literally the reason that we do this, the reason that we are able to continue doing this. And that's exactly what I want to celebrate today. Just the fact that you, you listening right now, you waiting for us to spill the tea on someone's terrible life decision

so you can feel better about yourself, you have gotten us to this very special milestone, and you have made it possible for us to tackle the next 1,000 episodes, which we are so, so grateful for. And look, if we're still doing this show at episode 2000, and Gabe and I haven't croaked her, like I said, been canceled, hit by a dump truck, whatever. Cancelled as possible.

Making fun of your inadvertent cross-dressing almost got me in some trouble. I promise we're going to do something huge to celebrate that one, which definitely buys me some time. In the meantime, thank you for being part of this journey with us. Thank you for listening, as always. I hope the next six years are as fun, stimulating, and rewarding as the last six have been. All right, as always, fun ones and some doozies. Cannot wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I was adopted at a very young age by a couple. They later got divorced, and my adopted mother married another guy named David. David was a good father figure, and I have very fond memories of him. But my adopted sisters have different memories and have actually accused him. of a certain type of abuse. One of them has cut off all contact with certain family members for having a relationship with him in the past. My stepdad just passed away.

How should I feel? Is it okay to mourn the loss of my stepdad? Or am I betraying my sister in favor of her abuser? Signed, learning to grieve, amidst these unspeakable deeds. Oh, man. Yeah, this is a really tough situation. As usual, Gabe kicking off with the true dues. So, David was a good father figure to you,

and you probably really needed one after being adopted and then going through a divorce. And now you learn that this guy was, I don't know, more complicated, shall we say? Assuming that what your sisters are saying is true, which, look, it sounds like it is, we have no reason to doubt that. I mean, more than one sister, it sounds like, is saying, hey, he did these things to me. So you really do have to take their memories and version of events seriously. What a confusing place to be. What a painful place to be. For sure.

How do you grieve someone who played such an important role in your life? life, but also did some horrible things, especially to people that you care about. So, first of all, you have a variety of feelings here, and they're all valid. You're sad that David died, you're mourning him, you miss him, and you're also angry and disappointed and probably kind of disturbed by what you've learned since then. Which is a sort of double grief, right? He's grieving David's death, and he's also grieving the version of David he thought was true all these years. Yeah, it's a good point. And also the idea that there was only, one David. It's kind of unsettling. Right. Like my perception of this person is the way that this person

is. It's like, oh, oh, no, that's not true at all. So these feelings are obviously complex, and that can be painful, it can be confusing, but it doesn't mean that those feelings are unjustified or irrelevant or wrong in some way. It just means you're a human being who's mourning another complicated human being, and you're having to make room for multiple facts and multiple feelings. And making room for all of that, it's just not always easy, but that is part of your job right now. Right, to make the frame of his experience bigger. Yeah, to make room for all of it, for his pain and for his sister's pain, for his memories of David, and for their memories of him. Yeah, I totally agree.

I really feel for our friend here, though, because the stakes of mourning, David, seem very high. I mean, one of his sisters has cut off all contact with people for even having a relationship with him in the past. Which I got to say, I can understand to some degree. We've heard this story on Feedback Friday many times over the years. Like, you got to pick aside because what this guy did is not. okay. But one of the implications of that stance is it's making our friend's grief for his stepdad feel risky. It feels kind of dangerous. Right. It's almost a betrayal. Yeah. His grief is coming at a steep cost, I think. So I can appreciate why this is so loaded for him. Although, by the same

token, do the sisters need to do the same thing that we were just talking about? Widen the frame of their experience to and allow our friend here, anyone in the family really to have their own feelings about David? I mean, that's got to be hard, but do they need to try to do that? You mean instead of punishing them for it? Yeah, I'm just asking the question, don't get me wrong. I really think I'm fully on team sisters here. If David did these things, this dude was not a good person and was a big problem and was some kind of predator. We don't know exactly what he did. There was no detail. I mean, I can guess. Which, I have to say, that's also very interesting, though. What, that he didn't want to share the details of the accusations, I mean? I wonder if it's just too

painful for him to acknowledge. Well, yeah, or he's protecting David even after he's gone, or he's He just thought, like, everybody can guess what I'm talking about right now. I don't have to write this down. Which might also be a way of protecting his grief, protecting his right to grieve, even if it's just, you know, with us here on the show. It could be. I think if I were like, oh, this person that meant a lot to me did some bad stuff, I wouldn't be like, here's the list of it. Because it would be painful to type it out. And I'd be like, wow, after I type that, can I really then say, but I still feel for this person?

Exactly. I feel a little bit gross doing that, I think. So maybe there's an element of that. But that's my point. he can have his legitimate grief for his father figure, and that can be his. And I feel that's compatible with recognizing that he also did terrible things to other people. This is super not the same thing. But I got that image in my head of like, remember that picture of Hitler walking with a little girl? And people are always like, can you believe he actually loved his niece and he did all

these horrible things? It's like, it's almost like he was a real person. Wow. You know, it's sort of similar. Right. I guess it's not quite, the degree is quite different. No, that's quite an image. I've not seen that photo, but I think, yeah, you make a good point. He can grieve the version of a stepdad that he had, which was just as real to him as the version that probably hurt other people, uncomfortable, but true. Yeah, and he can grieve for them, too. I'm sure David's death is bringing all that up, which is what I was trying to get at a moment ago. I realized that this is sensitive and it's complicated, but are these sisters making it unfairly hard for other family members to appropriately grieve by saying, like, hey, he hurt us, you need to be on our side. I don't know.

I really realize how hard that must be for a victim to do. I totally get it. But if we're saying that grief is complex and contradictory and you got to make room for all the feelings, shouldn't that also apply to everybody in the family? I don't know. Maybe he goes, yeah, wow, he was a bastard. But like, I don't know. He was pretty cool to me.

And I can't just discard that because you told me to. No, it's a very fair point. But look, who knows, maybe the sisters are doing that. At least I hope they would because, you know, grief is very personal. But on a practical level, I do wonder if you just need to be. a little bit thoughtful about how you share some of these feelings with your sisters. They might not be the best audience for your grief. They might not be the most patient sounding boards for your feelings. They might not understand why you're so torn up about David, whether it's fair or unfair,

talking about missing David, appreciating the good sides of David, again, that's probably pretty loaded for them, and understandably so. So I would encourage you to process this grief in other ways with other people, friends, maybe more distant family, a therapist, and it would be worth talking about the strange position you find yourself in, trying to grieve when your sisters feel very differently. You deserve that too, but here's what I know for sure. You do not need to ask us, or anyone, how you're allowed to feel, whether it's okay to mourn this loss. You feel how you feel, bud, that's fair, that's legit. You lost somebody who is important to you, and that's a fact. It's a very meaningful fact, and over time, these feelings of yours could evolve.

or maybe this new information about your stepdad could temper some of your grief. It could complicate some of your grief. Also totally fair. But right now, this grief is yours, and you are definitely allowed to experience it apart from your sisters. And they're allowed to experience theirs. Yeah, exactly. And look, I think the real question he's asking is, do I have a right to my own experiences

when other people have such different experiences? Yes. And it's such a good question. It is. It's an obvious doozy. And that probably speaks to you. your empathy, your flexibility, and also how hard it can be for you to sometimes hang on to your own feelings. And look, who knows? Maybe that's a legacy of adoption, going through a divorce,

experiencing a lot of change in your life, more good territory to explore in therapy when you're ready. But for now, try to make room for yourself here and try to make room for all of these facts. You are not betraying your sisters by mourning your stepdad. Again, maybe don't do it in front of them, or to them, but I do worry that you might betray yourself by denying yourself this important period to grieve a very big loss, and that's not going to be good for you either. Down the road, you can sort out your final opinion of David, whether he was a good guy or a bad guy, what place he holds in your life, you might have to live with the contradiction that David was all of these things, and living with paradoxes like that is a big part of life.

But right now, it's just about mourning, and that process, that is entirely yours. So I'm sending you and your sisters a big hug, and I hope you're all holding up okay. Yeah, that's really sad. It must be really hard for him to hear all of this, but I also, it must be really hard for his sisters to be like, I don't want to hear you say how you missed David and he was so great when he assaulted me and so-and-so

when we were 11. Of course. You know, like, ugh, what a mess. Even if somebody's a horrible bastard, you finding that out after they're dead doesn't really like, you can't just be like, oh, well, in that case, I'm not sad at all. That's just not going to work.

Right. Nobody normal can behave. like that and switch their emotions off like that. You know what you won't have to grieve? Your bank balance when you support the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. It is your support of our advertisers that keeps us going.

A thousand episodes strong, baby. To learn more and get links to all of the discounts you hear on the show so you can check out the amazing sponsors for yourself. All those deals, discount codes, and ways to support us are at jordanharbinger.com Slash deals. A lot of you have emailed me like, hey, don't you have a matchress sponsor? Yes, I do. I will mail you that code.

Feel free to do that. You reach out anytime. That's how we stay in biz over here. So please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up. Hola, Jordan, and Gabe. All right, Buenos Dias.

Gabe, I think that was actually supposed to be Hordan. Oh, sorry, sorry, yeah, yeah. Hola, Jordan, and Jabe. That sounds. Jordan and Jabe. Super authentic, I think. I'm a 28-year-old pastry chef, who used to love waking up every morning to go to work,

would always be inspired to create new recipes, and spent hours baking and taking part in food festivals, sales, and so on, on my days off. But lately, I find myself having a really hard time, enjoying what I do. I've been in the culinary industry for eight years since high school. Went to culinary school, graduated with honors, completed an internship at a prestigious bakery,

and have worked my ass off working up at the best restaurants in my city. I was the first pastry chef to earn a James Beard nomination here, life goal achieved. I have won awards, been on TV shows. I am now even a chef ambassador for the city's UNESCO City of Gastronomy designation, which took me to China on an all-expenses paid trip a couple of weeks ago. First of all, that's amazing. This is hugely impressive. I know you're going through it right now, but let's just take a moment to celebrate all of your massive accomplishments.

You're basically like a red velvet rock star. A Marzaband maestro. Yeah. So she goes on. All of these things are dreams I've wanted to achieve goals I had set for myself, but now I sit here tired. My whole body aches and I feel unfulfilled. Yeah, I think a lot of us have been there. I've always dealt with people doubting me and questioning my talent and abilities, and I use that to push myself to do badass things.

I wholeheartedly believe that insert higher power here for me at Taylor Swift put me in this, that's in the letter, that's not me speaking, but, you know, I don't. Yeah, sure it isn't. Yeah, sure. I don't disagree completely, but I get it. For me, it's Taylor Swift, put me in this world to be a pastry chef, but now I just feel drained and unmotivated. Oh, man, it's so cringe when, anyway, our great goddess Tete definitely put you in this world to make Panicata, I guess. I am glad you are giving your deity the respect she deserves. Truly. Yeah. Yeah, we've said it before, but in her name we slay, definitely. Oh, so good. How do I get out of this slump? How do I improve my attitude about this?

What can I do to turn things around and get back in touch with my passion? Signed, looking for a fix when my passion's been 86ed. Good question. So I totally understand the place you're in right now. You love what you do. You're great at what you do. It lights you up. It drives you. What a gift, especially to find that at such a young age. I think it's amazing. But now you're in a slump, a little depresh, whatever you want to call it. For somebody who's always been very passionate, very focused, that can throw you for a loop. I've been through this many, many times myself.

I feel like I have anyway. I know, Gabe, you have two, yeah, this weird feeling to know that you're like, I'm 100% on the right path. I am living my purpose or whatever. But yeah, this is not fun right now, and it's not gratifying, and it's not pleasurable. So the first thing I want you to remember is what you're describing, it happens to so many people, especially, I would say, high performers in every field. I would argue that it happens to everyone at one point or another.

Being passionate about what you do, that doesn't mean you're not going to get tired. It doesn't mean you're not going to get bored. It doesn't mean you won't get run down or disillusioned or confused. It's almost a cliche, right? People who win Olympic gold medals are like depressed six months later because they've hit the brass ring and they're like, oh my God, now what? Maybe you're a victim of your own success in some ways.

In fact, I think I've said this on the show before. Loving what you do can sometimes make things even more difficult because you're working on something you actually care about. And you bring to that career a lot of expectations that don't always get met as opposed to somebody who just works to survive or works in a job that isn't their passion. If somebody's like doing concrete

and they're like, you know, this kind of sucks, but it's a, the pay is okay, they don't probably sit around and go, man, I thought this would be more fulfilling. They're like, no, I knew this was gonna be not fulfilling and I'm glad that I can take care of my family, but I'm under no illusion that I'm changing the world one sidewalk at a time.

It can be harder when you're doing something, and you're amazing at it, and it's something you've always wanted to do. And I think it's important to remember that. This is not unique to you. It's not a personal failing. Sometimes the best thing that you can do is allow yourself to go through these periods without investing too much meaning in the difficult feelings that they stir up. But also, I'm sure a lot of what you're dealing with is unique to your profession. Working in kitchens, being on your feet all day or all night, keeping people happy. I mean, that is hard on your body. It is hard on your mind. It could do a number on your emotional life.

The restaurant business is not easy. I always think back to when I worked at this movie theater back in Michigan and it was next door to this super fancy restaurant and the dumpsters were next to each other. So we would always see these young, I guess chefs or like soon-to-be chefs out back there and they looked miserable.

And I remember sometimes they'd be complaining or like drinking and I'd be like, hey, are you guys okay? Because they just looked like they were about to, or people would be crying back there. Oh, wow. And I'm like, wow, is working at that, this restaurant really hard and they're like, yeah, it's terrible. This guy, like the chef, I guess,

the guy who ran it was just a horrible person and would like dress these people down or fire them on a whim and then like rehire them the next day. It's just like, you know, it was like Gordon Ramsey, but like in real life terrible, not just the thing he does on TV where he's mean. It's a horrible business, I think, for a lot of people. But I hear you that your body hurts. So my question there is, how are you taking care of yourself outside of work? I don't want to make any assumptions, but if you're a pastry chef, are you getting high on your own supply all the time? Is that taking a toll on your body? Are you exercising?

Are you doing yoga a few times a week? You're keeping your body limber. You're working out the kinks you get from being on your feet all day. Do you have any kind of fitness routine? Are you drinking enough water? Or are you surviving on, I don't know. What is the cream they put inside, like, Eclayers, Gabriel? I don't know why I'm asking.

You're asking the wrong person. You will definitely not know that. What's an Eclare? I don't even. Yeah. Are you surviving on Mascopone or whatever? Are you eating well? Like, you're a pastry chef.

You are a bun cake badass. There might be more sugar in your diet than you need. That's what I'm trying to say. Are you early Anthony Bordaining it every night, pounding Advil during your shift and getting hammered until 4 a.m and sleeping until 2 p.m.? Point is, if you're not recovering from the hours of standing and lifting and moving and bending over to get stuff out of the oven, I'm sure the pain and exhaustion and hopelessness get worse. You have to take care of your body to make this career sustainable.

You need time that is just about you when so much of your life is about other people. And that's also how you can stay connected to your calling when things get tough. Yes, I totally agree. The only thing I would add is that you are clearly a very, very ambitious person. And you have been driven by achievements and rewards from a young age. And that can often lead to a crisis later in life. I do wonder if what you're confronting now is whether you're in this profession for the accomplishments, you know, these amazing awards, degrees, honors, jobs, appointments,

or if you're in it for the work itself, the food, the joy of creating, the process. The reality is, and I think you're already learning this, extrinsic rewards can never satisfy us for very long. They're fun, they're gratifying, they can even be very meaningful sometimes, and that is great. But at the end of the day, they really are more about ego and confirmation and practical concerns like money or opportunities or whatever than they are about true fulfillment. At some point, the dopamine hit from those achievements dies down, and what you're left with is just what you're doing, you know, in that moment, this dish, this role, this shift, whatever it is. And if you don't have a strong connection with the process, then I think it can

sometimes feel like everything is falling apart. That's when the nihilism and the depression sets in, the existential crisis, right? I have been there myself many times and I've gone through some periods of true crisis with my writing, especially, where I had to ask myself, you know, like, am I doing this because I want to be celebrated or highly compensated? Or am I doing this because I actually have something to say because I genuinely enjoy the process of writing. And I got to tell you, there were periods where I really did not know the answer to that. And that was a little terrifying. But in time, I have come back to this place of, no, I am doing this because I genuinely enjoy it. It also makes me miserable, drives me up the wall sometimes, but I

genuinely enjoy it. And yeah, I do want to achieve. And yes, I do want to be recognized. And I would love to make a lot of money from this. But that's not why I'm doing it. And I know that because if I never got those things, I would probably still be sitting around making things up about people who do not exist, which I'm not even bragging about that. It's a ridiculous way to spend one's life writing screenplays or novels or whatever, but that's the truth for me. So I really try to stay connected to the intrinsic rewards, the process and the love that I feel mostly for what I do, which is ultimately I think that's all we're entitled to. For sure. And look, without that, none of the external rewards ever come. And that's my experience anyway.

Yes, that is so true. So when you say that you feel drained, that you feel unmotivated, there's probably a lot going on in there. It might be just the restaurant you're currently working for. It might be the people you're surrounded by these days, but it could also be your sleep, your exercise routine. What else is going on in your life? There are so many variables here. But the big theme of your letter is how driven you've been by achievement. And also interestingly, by adversity. Like you said, you've always dealt with people doubting you and questioning your talent and you use that to push yourself. to do badass things, as you put it. So it sounds like nothing stops you. You use it all to achieve. But when these difficult feelings come up, my question is, do you make room for them? Do you sit with them? Do you find ways to process them?

Or have you always just channeled them into doing the next thing, into achieving something else, and woven them into this narrative of ambition and unstoppable? If so, that could also contribute to the feeling of being drained and being unmotivated,

which does sound a lot like a depression. and one major antidote to depression, as we know, not the only one, but an important one. Drugs. Drugs, that's the answer. You need to be doing a lot more cocaine. Eclares. Sure, rail those lines off of an eclair on your shit. I don't know.

Not going to work. Trust me. The antidote is to have a relationship with yourself that allows for all of these feelings to really let them in and see what they're trying to tell you about how you need to take care of yourself, about how you work, why you work, about the people you're surrounded by, really about your relationship with this beautiful calling of yours, rather than stuffing them down or just channeling them into the next pound cake. Well, she is a pound cake prodigy, Gabe.

So it makes sense that she copes that way. But I totally agree. So, no, I don't think that resolving this is just about improving your attitude or whatever. Even framing this as a question of attitude, that might be part of what Habé was getting at, a tendency you might have to sort of skate on the surface of your feelings a little bit and not give them the air time that they deserve. I also want you to check out the article in Deepdive we did on how to stick with your purpose

when it starts to suck. That was episode 205, which is really funny, though, that this is episode 1,000. That was 795 episodes ago, but it's still relevant. Somehow that number sounds bigger than 1,000. 1,000 is just like almost too big. It's my camera wrap my mind right in it. We'll link to those in the show notes.

I think there'll be great reads slash listens for you right now. So don't let this crisis throw you too much. I would think of it more like an opportunity to remember why you love this career, reprioritize the intrinsic stuff, to nurture that relationship with food and creating that called you to this field in the first place. That's what's going to sustain you when your job gets tough. So hang in there, you wafer Wunderkind, we're rooting for you. You know, this reminds me of podcasting, I mean, because that's the only creative thing that I do,

actually. Podcasting was so much more fun. Look, I love podcasting. It's fun. I'm not going to stop anytime soon. But I have all these days where I'm like, what about this? What about this?

Business thing. We got to open up a new line of revenue. Podcasting was so much more carefree fun, I should say, when there were no statistics. Like early in the game, the first few years I did this, there was no real way to measure your podcast. Like, there was Apple rank stuff, but like it was kind of,

it didn't really exist in the way that it does now. Spotify didn't have a chart. No other apps had charts. Even your backend statistics, it would be like, you use two terabytes of data and you'd be like, okay, cool. It was a simpler time. Yeah, it wasn't like 40,000 people are listening to this, 20,000 people are listening to this. You're just like, I have no idea how many people are listening, but I'm getting emails

and I'm doing it, and it's fun, it's fine. That's all it was. And so that was just so much more interesting at the time. It was new. Now, don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it's a business now. It's really a job for a lot of people involved in this on some days more than others. And I didn't win a Jaime Beard Award, and I'm never going to win one of those for podcasting, because it's a food thing. Also, can we visit this person, Gabriel?

I want to, like, try some of this food. I would strongly consider breaking my veganism for her pastries. Yeah. She sounds next level good. Yeah, I mean, after all, how often do you get to eat food cooked by a fudge phenom? Not every day. Have we out done our stuff? I mean, the alliteration on this episode is out of control.

Out of control. all alliteration. You're welcome. Can't alliterate that word. Anyway, you can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject line. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If your homeschooling mom ruined your future prospects, you cheated on your wife and got a lesbian couple pregnant. I mean, it was just one person, but you know what I mean. Or you work for a company that's actually a low-key cult run by a narcissistic attention-hungry, Lydia. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous.

All right. What's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 71-year-old retired professional, and I was recently on an adult website on my laptop when a pop-up took over my whole screen and had audio giving me specific instructions to not shut down the computer and call a phone number from Microsoft. Oh, no. It shocked me. I called the number, and the person claimed to be from Microsoft and had an employee ID number. They had me do some analysis, and the analysis claimed that my bank account at Chase had been compromised and that there had been attempts to buy child pornography. Of course,

they brought in the possibility of federal crimes, etc. I was transferred to a supposedly secure Chase fraud line and talked to someone who sounded so legitimate and very friendly, claiming severe breach, and I believed him. He had me clear out my Chase checking account, go to various stores buying gift cards, and then give him the access codes. Worst of all, since my Coinbase and Venmo accounts were associated with the Chase account, he had me transfer Bitcoin to an unknown account. All this was under the guise that it was going into a new account for me. I ultimately lost about $7,000 in cash and $40,000 in Bitcoin. Oh, that is brutal. I am so sorry, man. Wow. I did report it to the FBI and local sheriff, but likely nothing will come of that. I'm well off financially, so this doesn't

affect my lifestyle, but I cannot believe I did this. Yeah. I'm quite competent and experienced, and looking back, there were dozens of clues that this was a scam, but for some reason, I didn't see them. This has caused me severe depression, not only about the loss of money, but about the complete stupidity of what I fell for. I've lost sleep and can't get it out of my mind. I know there's nothing I can do. I'm also too ashamed to discuss it with any friends. How do I get over this? How do I stop constantly replaying it and beating my up for it, signed an unwitting mark, suffering in the dark. Oh, man. Well, I'm really sorry this happened to you. It must be hard to write something like

this because you have to put all of the dumb things in a row. And when you do it that way, you're like, how did I fall for this? Right. But when it happens and it's all strung out and you're stressed out and it takes days of time. Getting scammed, it sucks. It's infuriating. It's embarrassing. It can be debilitating financially, emotionally. So, yeah, I totally get why you're feeling this way. I've been scam before, even recently. Look, I know a lot about scams. There was a place that wanted to pay me for a speaking gig, and it was virtual. And I was like, okay, they're like, yeah, it's going to be on Facebook live. I'm like, okay, fine. They're like, log into Facebook. They didn't send me a link. I logged into Facebook on my own, and they're like,

install this plugin on Facebook. And it was literally an approved Facebook page plugin, like an approved one that you can install on your Facebook page that does live streaming supposedly. Oh no. And I was like, okay, this is weird, but not totally off base. Like I've had to install things before to give talks like, oh, we use this thing. You got to use this online software. This later turned out to be a flaw in Facebook security on specific group pages and I installed a malicious plugin on a Facebook account. They didn't get my login or anything. They just had a plugin that allowed them to manage this. And it was absolutely nuts. I didn't have to give anybody access or anything. Luckily, I was able to hamstring the scammers before they could do really any

damage, but they did run a bunch of really click-baity ads at their own expense for like COVID conspiracy theories in Italian and I think Slovak. It was very weird. Even Facebook security, my wife's cousin works there. He was like, oh, uh, I can't really fix this because I don't understand how they got in in the first place. The point here is this can really happen to anyone. Even savvy and experienced people, you are not alone. Now, if they had come to me and I wasn't somebody who gave paid talks all the time, I probably would have been like, oh, this is a little weird. But for somebody does paid talks all the time, multiple times per week, this just was not that weird. And also, I didn't want to be racist. I was like, it's so weird that this person sounds like, you know,

they're calling me from another country when, because this is a live call, too, in addition to emails. And I was like, oh, no, I'm just being racist. And I was like, oh, no, this actually was the scam center in freaking Pakistan. Wow. So, My dad, he got scammed recently because it was a couple years ago, but he had a printer problem, and he Googled HP printer support. And the first result in Google was an Indian scam center. Oh, no. And Google obviously doesn't give a crap about this, so they didn't remove the results.

I'm sure they'd gotten reports a zillion times. They installed some software on my dad's computer that was scanning things, and I doubt they found much of anything, because while it was running, my dad just panicked and he ripped the computer plug out of the wall. And he called me and he's like, wait, I think I'm being. scammed and he felt really embarrassed, you know. He took the computer at the Apple store. They wiped remote access. They had installed like a remote access thing. So that probably they could key log his banking stuff. We all, we changed all of our passwords. It was so fast they probably

didn't even find anything. That turned out well for him. Well done. Luckily, he ripped the computer plug out of the wall and took it to the store and wasn't like, oh, I don't want to tell anyone. So the first thing you need to do is just have a little more compassion for yourself. These scammers found you in a moment of vulnerability. I mean, I would say they found you with your, you know what in your hands, and they literally did. I was going to say they found you with your pants. Your pants down. They got you with your pants down, literally, but, you know. And they're good at what they do. These are not kids hanging out scamming people. This is professional organized crime with literally millions of victims. These guys get thousands of reps in every week. These are full-time

employees with a handbook, et cetera. You didn't know enough about these scams or you were so shaken up. a perfect victim. And like I said, I get these scam emails every single day. A lot of them are transparent. I'm on the pulse of this and I still got scanned back then when it was a new scam with the Facebook pages. Now they're still running it. I don't know how they do it. I think Facebook still hasn't blocked this malicious plug-in possibly or they just keep making new ones. You just didn't know. Now you know it'll never happen again. But this narrative you have, I'm competent, I'm experienced. I should have listened to the signs. I'm an idiot. There's something wrong with me. That's all normal. But you're just, you're not doing yourself

any favors here. The more accurate narrative is, I'm competent, I'm experienced, and this still happened to me, which means that these scams must be pretty good if even somebody like me can be vulnerable to them. But look, this process you're going through of looking back and going like, damn, there were dozens of signs that this was BS and I didn't pay attention to them. I know that that's painful, but that's actually an important part of recovering from something like this. Because when you take stock of those red flags in retrospect, what you're doing is, you are showing yourself that you really were alert to those signs. You weren't completely asleep at the wheel. You just didn't listen to your intuition, but it was working. It was online. And that hurts, but it's actually

reassuring. So rather than doing the forensics to beat yourself up, I'd do them more in the spirit of appreciating that there was a part of you that knew something wasn't right. And in the future, if you ever hear that voice again, you're going to listen to it because you know that it's actually there to protect you. I think it's also interesting that you're too ashamed to discuss it with your friends, I totally get that. I really do. But if you listen to the show a bunch, then you know that that shame will also make it harder for you to process what happened and start to let go of it. Do not get me wrong. You are well within your rights to never talk about this with anyone if you don't want to. Except for the few hundred thousand people listening right now. I was going to say,

which is why I'm glad you reached out to us. You know, being alone in something like this can be very isolating. Now hundreds of thousands of people know about it, but they don't know your name. So I get it. That's right. James Beard in Madison, Wisconsin. Your secret safe with us. But it's also a lot more embarrassing to you than it would be to anyone else. So if you have a close friend or two who would be understanding, maybe one day you take a chance and open up about this. I mean, I don't know. I just have a feeling, Jordan, that telling somebody this story would be very liberating for him. Agreed. Also, you might be doing that person a huge favor if they ever find themselves targeted by a similar scam.

Good point. You know, I'm not sure what your friend's preferences are vis-a-vis the naked people on the old internet. but these scammers find victims in all sorts of ways, not just when they're having some me time on a website with 37 pop-up ads. So a lot of good might come from this conversation. So time to forgive yourself, man. And if you can't forgive yourself, then allow your mind to keep replaying this until it gets tired.

Rather than fighting the ruminating, just accept it, notice it, a little post-scam meditash for you. But the real lesson of this story is, listen to your gut. It's not perfect by any means, but it's almost always doing something important, and it's often right. Gavin De Becker put it best in his book, The Gift of Fear.

Intuition is always right in at least two important ways. It is always in response to something, and it always has your best interest at heart. And if you want to learn more about listening to your gut and using your fear, I highly recommend listening to my interview with him. That was episode 329 and 330. We'll link to those in the show notes for you. So go wash your hands, not just literally,

but metaphorically, of all the shame associated, with falling for a scam and go get an ad blocker. That goes for the rest of you too. I recommend Ublock origin. There's a plugin that kills most internet ads and pop-ups. Oh, good wreck. Wait, would an ad blocker stop a scammer like this? Oh, yeah.

So this might be a little unclear. So that was not, of course, actually a message from Microsoft, and it was not a system message. It was supposed to, it was probably disguised as a system message in Windows. They just use the same graphics. This is a pop-up ad on a shady porn site. I see. it popped up and said like, you're, you have a virus. And he thought, oh my God, my system's telling me I have a

virus. No, the advertiser was telling you you have a virus. You click on it. It takes you to the site and gives you the phone number or there's no site to be clicked on. It just gives you the number. You call thinking this is a computer message. And the porn site doesn't care because they probably get like five dollars a click or something like that, right? So they just don't care. And yes. So that ad would never show up if you block or ad block pro or whatever ad block plus, I think it's called, isn't. because it would block that in the first place. Got it. So, yeah, a lot of scammers use fake pop-ups to get victims.

And especially if you're on a crappy website, it'll have something like that. I recommend using reputable porn websites myself. That's the real wreck right there. That's the real wreck right there, yes. The real wreck is always in the comments. All right, now get your hands off your pud and put those hairy palms to work by taking advantage of the crazy good deals on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our sponsors. All of the deals discount codes and ways to support the show are all in one place. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Or you can email me, Jordan atjurbaner.com. If you're super lazy or you can't find a sponsor, I will happily dig up that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right.

What's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm an advertising creative director, and 30 years ago, I teamed up with an art director. We worked at several agencies together each time advancing our careers until we eventually opened a satellite office with a former client who became our president. We built the business into a success over several years, and our president ended up purchasing it. Fast forward 24 years, and we just shut down the agency. It was a great run. I know I'll look back on it with pride, and I'm thankful to have worked. with so many special people along the way. Unfortunately, the ending wasn't so special for me. When our president shut the agency down, I was given two-month severance with a hug,

some tears, and a good luck. Oh, man, that is not a happy ending like the guy in the previous question was aiming at. That is a tough break. I'm really sorry to hear that, but yeah, amazing run. Sorry, I couldn't exist. Took me a second to understand what you were talking about. Terrible. Oh, got it. Yeah. That's interesting. Do you, never mind. I had questions about what sequence of events and if you got to enjoy it, but I really don't think we need to talk about that on our podcast. So our friend here goes on. Meanwhile, several of the clients who were still with us were transferred to another agency along with a handful of people to run the accounts. My former partner was one of them, as were two of my former employees. I was upset, but at the same time,

I understand how business works. What really has me upset and disappointed is my former partner. It's been over a month now, and he hasn't reached out to see how I'm doing. Odd. Yeah, it is weird. Let's see where this goes. He goes on. We weren't just business partners. We were friends. Our kids grew up together. I was the only person he told about his wife's infidelity and his challenges with his children and I've shared plenty of private things as well. He was very creative at times and really, really funny. Yeah, that sucks. That is not cool. My hunch is that he's embarrassed, actually, and he feels he betrayed you or is worried that you're mad at him maybe, so he's avoiding you, which is not how you handle those things, but whatever. I suppose, yeah, like you said, let's see where this goes. Meanwhile, my two former hires who were taken along both sent me heartfelt messages telling me how much I've meant to them in their careers. Oh, that's really nice. Yeah, that's sweet. That tells me that you're a solid boss and a solid colleague. And by the way, side note, amazing how much these notes mean to people, especially at Pivot. moments, eh? Totally. Highly recommend doing stuff like this. I don't just mean like digging the well thing. This is a great way to build strong relationships, but man, it just means so damn much to people.

So don't sit on your good feelings, guys. Little tip from Uncle Jay over here. Carry on, Gabe. Adding to my anger is the fact that six years ago, we lost an account, and the client mentioned my partner's work style and procrastination as one of the reasons. My partner had also earned the nickname the Stoller by another unhappy client. Yikes. And I had to talk, many project managers off the ledge with their frustrations over his procrastination. That, combined with some challenges he had with coworkers, eventually put my partner on the chopping block. Our president was ready to fire him,

and I told him that my partner's creative talents more than outweighed his procrastination issues. He was kept on, and I never told my partner about that conversation, as I knew it would really mess with him. He's a highly sensitive guy with paranoid tendencies, and it would rock him to know that people were talking behind his back. Interesting details. I'm not sure you did him a favor by not telling him that his procrastination almost got him fired multiple times, but okay. Let us come back to that. Yeah. Well, I'm wanting to tell him now. In my fantasy, I want him to know that I stood up for him. The least he could do is check in to see how I'm getting along. Yeah. I just want to understand why he didn't have the courage or decency to reach out. If he had, I know we would still be friends with so much great history together. I've been meaning to reach out for months now is what he's going to say, because he's,

He's freaking procrastinating. You know, Jordan, I got to say, it's so interesting that he felt this protective of this guy and so loyal to him when he had this very real pattern of procrastinating, compromising client accounts, among other flaws, apparently. Yeah, I mean, it's sweet for sure, but I really got to wonder what that dynamic was about. Come on. Yeah, totally. I mean, his partner got to be creative and funny and messy and unreliable,

kind of a problem based on what he's sharing with us. And our friend here secretly smooth things over, cleaned up his messes in the back, fought for him. There's a lot more to that than just, hey, I love this guy. I wanted to help him out. You know, that is interesting. What were they each getting out of this friendship? Was our friend here afraid to lose this guy? Did he protect his partner a little too much? Did he shy away from some conversations about his work style? By the way, procrastination would drive me absolutely crazy. I would fire someone in a heartbeat. So it's like, okay, how good do they need to be at everything else? I don't know. But it also makes me wonder, does this pattern of procrastination maybe explain why he's

ghosting now? Or is the ghosting a completely different thing? I think it's certainly related. The whole relationship is fascinating, so let's come back to this. On a happier note, a former client of mine just fired the agency she inherited and gave me the creative portion of her business. So I have some new work, and I'm bringing along another creative who also didn't move forward with our former agency. So cool. Yeah, that's amazing, man. Congrats. I'm very happy to hear that. I think it's awesome that you're bringing along another creative who didn't move forward with your old agency. This is how you build a team, a tribe. And Gabe, I don't mean to turn this into one of Uncle Jordan's networking fables or whatever, but I can't help but notice, you know who he didn't bring

along with him to his new venture. Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly right. It's so obvious how these opportunities get generated. I still haven't reached out to my old partner. I feel like he should be the one to contact me. I don't see how we can ever be friends again, but I can't get it off my mind. Am I being petty and vindictive? Should I just move on? Signed burned, spurned, and ready to discern whether it's my turn to focus on my own concerns. Wow, what a story. Well, look, I'm really sorry that your former partner is treating you this way. Being ditched by somebody you were this close with,

somebody you collaborated with, somebody you nurtured and protected, like I said, very painful. So I totally understand why you feel betrayed. And I don't think you're being petty and vindictive. Petty and vindictive would be, I don't know, calling up his new colleagues and telling them that he procrastinates and pisses off clients and that he's paranoid and his kids don't get along with him and his wife cheated on him.

I mean, you're not doing anything like that. You're just wounded, and you're working that out inside yourself as you should. So here's my honest take. This guy, he was very important to you. You guys had a meaningful relationship. You did great work together. And he was very flawed. This wasn't a great partner who, like, had some quirks.

This is a guy who, based on what you shared, sounds like a hot mess. Creative, talented, funny, sure, okay, but also pretty dysfunctional. I mean, you don't earn the nickname the stoller unless your procrastination is terrible. The fact that he was almost fired for this, that tells me that it must have been pretty bad. Now, that quality doesn't mean he was necessarily a bad person. He could just be highly disorganized, bad at communicating, but coupled with the fact that he hasn't reached out to you now, it does paint a picture of a guy who might not have been the friend you thought he was, or he was that friend, but he doesn't know how to behave in a way that honors

that friendship, which kind of amounts to the same thing, in my view. It doesn't take away from the work you did together. It doesn't mean that you made this whole friendship up in your head. It just means there were aspects of this guy that you didn't know about or that you were maybe willfully blind to and now you're seeing them more clearly. You're coming to terms with the reality of this guy. And again, that's painful. I think that's exactly right, Jordan.

It's funny. He's grieving too. Interesting theme on today's episode going back to question one. How do you grieve people who are flawed? You're mourning the end of this 30-year journey, the end of this company, the end of your friendship with this guy, and just like the person in question one, you're also mourning the version of him you thought he was, or maybe the version you wanted him to be. But to go back to the idea we stumbled into earlier how your relationship with this guy actually worked, I think there's a

lot more for us to appreciate about why you protected him over the years. Sounds to me like you both kind of cramped around some of his flaws. And I do wonder why you never sat him down and said, listen, bud, you're my homie, you're my partner, I have a lot of respect for you. I love the way we work. I appreciate you. So I want to give you some feedback. This procrastination thing is becoming an issue and you need to address it because it's causing some real problems that I don't think you fully realize. You know, one of the many interesting things that this guy has shown you is that you are fiercely loyal to people you care about.

And it's very clear to me that you are a super generous person. But this is also an interesting opportunity to ask, am I loyal to the right people? And what does that loyalty actually look like? What should it look like? Which qualities am I being generous with and how are people valuing that generosity? I don't have the answers to those questions, but I would encourage you to sit with them, especially when it comes to people like this guy. I'm also very curious to know whether you had any indications along the way that he might

be the sort of person who might ghost you one day. Like, looking back, did you ever get any signals that he might be careless not just with deadlines or clients, but with friends and partners? Did you ever notice that he could be a little avoidant, a little wishy-washy, kind of inconsistent? Did you feel along the way that you sometimes valued him more than he valued you? these are just a few questions you might want to ask. If I were in your shoes, I would treat this as an opportunity to check back in with yourself and see if you might sometimes justify or discount certain signs in order to remain close to somebody or just to keep things on an even keel. It's really

interesting. Again, there's so many repeating themes today, going back to the Gavin DeBecker thing from earlier, this is a chance to really take stock of some potential red flags and warnings that you might have seen along the way. Yeah, it's a good point, Gabe. The downside here is that his friend and partner essentially abandoned him, and that definitely sucks. But the upside is that the loss is forcing him to reconsider this friendship and learn some things about himself. So if I were you, I would keep moving forward. I would take the right lessons away from this guy. The other big one is that while your ex-partner might have been avoidant in his own way, you might have been too. When it came to giving him direct feedback about his style, his reputation, and another big one is that relationships and

situations change. This is life. It's all change, and a lot of life is mourning these transitions. And that is not entirely bad. But look, I'm not saying you need to close the door to your old partner forever. If he calls you in six months at a year, whatever, and he goes, look, man, I owe you an apology. Let me explain. You could hear him out. I would do that. And if that happens, I would encourage you to tell him what it was like not hearing from him and why it didn't sit well with you. And who knows, maybe this is the fire under his ass that he needs to change his ways. I don't know. So this doesn't necessarily mean you're never going to speak to the guy again, but I do think you're going to get a lot further right now trying to figure out what this guy taught

you rather than nursing a grudge or waiting for him to reach out or giving into the petty and trying to ruin his career. I honestly think that this new employer might end up calling you in six months. Like, hey, this guy sucks. He procrastinates on everything. Can you take on all this work that he dropped the ball on? We were on the fence between you and him and we obviously bet on the wrong horse. I'm sorry that you're hurting, but you're also growing. And over time, this injury will it'll settle, I promise. It'll take on new meaning and that helps. Good luck with the new gig. It sounds like an amazing new chapter and we're wishing you the best. All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my boyfriend and I have been together for almost five years. He's the first man I've ever truly loved.

He's also the first man to show me what unconditional love is. He's a gentleman, he opens all my doors, won't let me pump my gas, cleans my car in the winter, carries all the groceries, stuff like that. He's extremely charming. My family loves him. He's super funny. And he looks amazing. He used to be a power lifter. The complete package, almost.

Yeah, enough with all the descriptions of your prince charming. Tell us about his chronic avoidance and his Cheeto feat. A kid, kind of. I'm glad you found an awesome guy who excites you and treats you well. That's fantastic. But that's not why you wrote into Feedback Friday. So let's get to the dues, shall we? The thing is, my boyfriend procrastinates on everything.

and it drives me insane. Interesting theme again. Are you dating the previous guy's old business partner? Yeah, are you dating the staller? The staller. She's dating a staller, that's for sure. So she goes on, personal growth and therapy have been a huge part of my life, and they are something I consider non-negotiable when it comes to my partners. I've been in therapy over half my life, and have learned so much about myself, which has shaped my relationships. I deserve a partner that puts as much effort into his personal growth and our connection as I do. But my boyfriend disagrees about therapy. He agrees that it would be good for him and says he wants more out of life and wants to grow, but then he doesn't do anything to make that happen. He also procrastinates in multiple other

areas of his life. The reason I'm so said on therapy is that he has unhealed trauma that affects him, and I want him to be happy. He used to have emotional outbursts that were very triggering for me, although he has vastly improved in that area without any external help. Also, we can only meet people as deeply as we've met ourselves. I feel like our relationship has gone stagnant because he isn't growing with me, and we're not connecting further, which I find to be a huge turnoff. I've spoken directly to him about all of this multiple times. He usually responds with something like,

why do your things have to be my things? Fine, but he never proposes a different activity or resource instead. At one point, I even gave him an ultimatum. go to therapy or I walk, and yet here we are. I really love my boyfriend, and love like this is hard to find. I'd hate to let him go, but lately I feel like he holds me back because he isn't growing with me and he won't make me happy in the long run. Am I being too narrow-minded? Are there other ways for my partner to get to know himself better and heal? Is this something I should just learn to live with in our relationship? Signed, hard not to grouse, and wonder if this dude is really my spouse, when he

won't get on the damn couch. Man, another great question. Well, first of all, your boyfriend sounds great in so many important ways. And I think it's awesome that you found somebody who treats you well, who you love on many levels. Well done. He sounds like a special guy, even if he's sort of limited in this department. That said, you're not wrong to want your partner to learn and grow and tackle his issues, whatever they are. It sounds like the emotional outbursts are one of them. That is a rich area for him to unpack, although it sounds like he's made progress there on his own, which is excellent. kind of maybe I need that too sometimes. Unclear if he's just suppressing that rage

or actually addressing the underlying cause, but I know trying to suppress rage is really hard, so even if that's what he's doing, it's still encouraging. Now, obviously, Gabe and I, I think we share your view that personal growth is crucial and that therapy is powerful. Good therapy, anyway. But I also feel that your boyfriend

doesn't necessarily need to pursue the same sources of help that you have. If therapy isn't for him or he finds other resources more useful, that's fine. As long as it's like real stuff and not just like watching YouTube videos. Yeah, eight hours of Oshow. Not going to heal your childhood.

No. Although, candidly, Jordan, I would still be interested in understanding where his resistance to therapy comes from because in his case, it does sound more like avoidance or a defense than, you know,

therapy just isn't for me, but I like these other sources. Right. But then the question is, what are the other resources? What is he doing to understand himself better to work on this stuff? Is he reading self-help books?

Is he working with some kind of coach? Is he pursuing a project or a goal? or a practice that's therapeutic or introspective in some way, it doesn't really sound like it. I mean, powerlifting and fitness, okay, cool. Exercise is obviously essential. Right, but it's not going to fix your relationship with your dad or whatever. You know, as you will learn, if you walk into the weightlifting section of any gold's gym in the country.

That's right. Any big box gym. I have a theory there's a correlation between the circumference of your quads and the stability of your childhood. The golden ratio. It is possible I'm saying that because of my chicken legs. There is some bias here. Oh, well, by that metric, my childhood was perfect. Okay, fine.

Yeah, you got those chicken legs, too, Gabe. Those vegan chicken legs. Yeah, those impossible calves, baby. Impossible. Those satan swimmers. Yeah, those tofu tibias. Oh, man, I don't think I can top that. So I can certainly understand why you feel that your relationship has some limits

if he doesn't find some way of working on this stuff. As long as you guys have different values around personal growth, different capacities for self-inquiry, and this is something that matters to you, which it should, in my opinion, then this is going to continue to be an issue. But all that said, this is up to him. It's his life. And if he doesn't want to look at some of this stuff, then that's just where he's at, at least right now. And that's, I guess that's okay. It's his choice. I think you're in the process of accepting that. Now the question becomes, is this the partner I can be

with long term? And you need to tap into a similar courage yourself in answering that one. Yes, and acting on that answer, because like she said, she gave him the ultimatum. Mentally, she's already decided that this is a non-negotiable, but she didn't follow through on it. So there's a conflict here. I also think it's interesting that he procrastinates in multiple areas of his life. It's not just the therapy thing. Yeah. That's an important fact here too.

But, you know, like we've talked about before on the show, most procrastination, probably all procrastination, is ultimately avoidance. When we delay things, when we neglect them, it's usually because there's something we just don't want to deal with, the thing itself or the feelings that the thing stirs up. So it might be worth asking your boyfriend what, if anything, he might be avoiding by not wanting to give therapy a shot. Kind of an intense question, but it is a fair one. And I would really hear him out and help him pinpoint the source of the resistance. My hunch is that he's avoiding the vulnerability of talking to someone.

Yeah, I think so too. Just the discomfort of opening up to somebody new. Also probably some shame around certain qualities or tendencies, like the angry outbursts. I mean, I have personal experience with that, and it sucks. You feel like a turd doing that. Or maybe he resents the idea that he has to seek out the same exact kind of help that she has. Because the whole, why do your things have to be my thing's response? I find that's so interesting.

That does sound to me like a guy who is very concerned with maintaining his own identity. He might be working pretty hard to stick with the things that he feels are truly his. Maybe he just doesn't want to feel like he's capitulating to our friend here by agreeing to do something that he doesn't want to do, even if it's good for him. Maybe the whole therapy thing is loaded because agreeing to go makes him feel like, I don't know, maybe like it's my girlfriend's controlling me or like I'm losing my autonomy. I'm just, I'm speculating here a little bit, but I think these are normal feelings. And who knows, maybe he has some good reasons for feeling that way.

Maybe his life experience up until this point has made him feel that other people's interventions are dangerous. Or maybe he feels like he's lost other parts of himself in relationships before. All of this would be great stuff for you guys to talk about. And if he can't even have that conversation, then that's also very good data for you. But look, while we're huge fans of therapy, I don't think it's the only source of help or healing out there. But if he wants to live the best possible life, be the best possible partner, he's got to do something.

You know, Lee's got to listen to this podcast. Maybe not starting with this episode, and he finds out it was you who wrote in, and then, yeah, yeah, sorry about that. If your boyfriend were, say, reading books about anger, listening to lectures about it, talking deeply with you about this stuff, taking an online freaking anger management class.

I don't know. I'm sure that this would be a very different story. I wonder if maybe you could start by suggesting other sources that are perhaps less daunting, a book here and there, a YouTube talk, a workshop, help him work up to therapy, or you might dig his heels in and just never go, at which point it becomes about you again,

which you're already on to, because ultimately, that's who you're responsible for. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out the episode we did with Todd McFarlane this week,

if you haven't yet. I know you might not care about comics and toys. I didn't either, but he was so interesting. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know like and trust. I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself

in our six-minute networking course. This course is free, it's not gross, it's not schmoozy. You can find it on the think-ifick platform at six-minute networking.com. The drills take just a few minutes a day. It's not a heavy lift at all. You can even do it with your vegan chicken legs, Gabe. You could take that lift.

This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build those relationships before you need them. You can find it at six-minute networking.com. Don't forget, we got our subreddit for the show. jump into discussions with other Reddit users and listeners about specific episodes. Someone on there, Gabe, said that your laugh was fake. I saw that the other day and I thought, that can't be true because that would mean that I'm not really funny and we know that that's not the case. See,

real laugh. Oh my God, that's making me so self-conscious. Why would you say that on Reddit, guys? Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. So if there's an episode you really like or an episode you really didn't like, you want to share additional thoughts, learn more from people on the show fam. If you're a Reddit user, definitely check it out. It's just the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Also, we bit wiser, Jordan Harbinger.com slash news. Man, our newsletter is on fire. Gabe and I are writing it together now, which is, of course, made it way better

than it was just like me trying to figure it out of my own. Wisdom from 900, well, wisdom from 1,000 episodes. We've got to change the copy to apply to your life. Come check it out. Jordan Harbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Show notes and transcripts on the website. Advertis discounts, ways to support the show at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Jordan Harbinger. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. That's where all the sane people hang out. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My amazing team is Jen Harbinger or Harbinger doesn't matter. Say it however you want. I've given up on correcting people.

Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course, Habe Mizrahi, I guess. Our advice and opinions, those are our own. And I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Do your own. I haven't been a lawyer for well over a thousand episodes now. Do your own research before implementing anything you've done. hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the

meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with top sleep expert about why we dream, what happens when we sleep, and why chronic lack of sleep and driving while tired is more dangerous than driving under the influence of alcohol. Sleep is not an optional lifestyle luxury, sleep is a non-negotiable biological necessity, sleep is a life support system. It is mother nature's best effort yet at immortality. And the decimation of sleep throughout industrialized nations is now having a catastrophic impact on our health, our wellness, as well as the safety in the education of our children. It is a silent sleep loss epidemic and I would contend that it is

fast becoming the greatest public health challenge that we now face in the 21st century. The evidence is very clear that when we delay school start times, academic grades increase, behavioral problems decrease, truancy rates decrease, psychological and psychiatric issues decrease. But what we also found which we didn't expect in those studies is the life expectancy of students increased. So if our goal as educators truly is to educate and not risk lives in the process, then we are failing our children in the most spectacular manner with this incessant model of early school start times. And by the way, 7.30 a.m. for a teenager is the equivalent for an adult waking up at 4.30 or 3.30 in the morning. If you're trying to survive or regularly getting five hours of sleep or

less, you have a 65% risk of dying at any moment in time. When you wake up the next day, you have a revised mind-wide web of associations. A new associative network, a rebooted iOS, that is capable of defining remarkable insights into previously impenetrable problems. And it is the reason that you have never been told to stay awake on a problem. Instead, you're told to sleep on a problem. For more on sleep, including why we dream and how we can increase the quality of our sleep, check out episode 126 with Dr. Matthew Walker on The Jordan Harbinger Show. Hey, it's Adam Carolla.

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I'll keep you there. I'll handle the crazy. Nuance is often lost on today's world, that you can find it right here. Available wherever you listen to Finder Podcast, I'm Adam Carolla, and I approve of this message. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard,

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