The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1021: Konstantin Samoilov | Putin's Russia: An Insider's Perspective

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Inside Russia YouTuber Konstantin Samoilov exposes what life under Vladimir Putin has been like — from fleeing mobilization to facing KGB threats abroad. What We Discuss with Konstantin Samoilov: Why someone who has lived through the transition of Russia from a Soviet superpower to an oligarchic dictatorship now lives in exile and sleeps with one eye open. How the arrival of companies like McDonald's in the 1990s had a significant psychological impact on Russians, challenging their perceptions of the West. The stark differences between American meritocracy and the "blat" (nepotism) system prevalent in Russia, which limits opportunities for those without connections. How, contrary to official propaganda, the Russian economy is suffering due to sanctions, brain drain, a mass population exodus of three million, and a focus on military production at the expense of other sectors. Why Russian state media has shifted from focusing solely on controlling internal narratives to actively trying to shape international perceptions of Russia. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1021  This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals  Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!  Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. They're producing things that are either blown up or blow up and kill people. And it does not do any good to the economy. It sucks in the labor force. Imagine one school. Every single missile costs as much, $19 million as much to build a school. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better-informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional mafia, neuroscientist, or Russian chess grandmaster. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation,

psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, and cyber warfare, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, a unique perspective on the United States and Russia from a man who's lived in both places. Constantine Samoyov is a YouTuber who grew up in the Soviet Union, made it in America, then moved back to Russia only to escape after the start of the war against Ukraine. I originally, I wanted to get a Russian perspective on the conflict. that's how I found Constantine in the first place.

I realize there are many Russian perspectives, of course, but I thought his was insightful and well-spoken. His English is really good, was a great fit. We also take a look at Russia before and after the kickoff of the war. How past to success in life differ in Russia, the Soviet Union, and the United States, and why the KGB is now following Constantine around. I guess you know you've really made it

when spies are chasing you around the world. Here we go with Constantine Samoilov. Your channel inside Russia, someone sent a show fan maybe sent it to me. That's how I found a lot of guests for the show. And I think it was the video about how you escaped Russia. And before we get into that story, which I thought was fascinating, tell me about studying abroad in the United States

because you grew up in the Soviet Union, which I didn't think had exchange programs with the United States. Or maybe I'm getting the timing wrong here. They started doing the exchange programs in late 80s, okay? and come 90s, all kinds of programs were. And I remember I was sitting in 1996, and I won my ticket, so to speak. I won a competition to go and study in the USA for one year. And I was sitting in a large hole, and there was a guy from State Department

who was taking care of our visas and telling us, you know, the rules and an orientation session. What rules did you have? I'm curious, because I was an exchange student and they were like, don't get arrested, have fun. Don't get arrested. Don't get drunk and get hurt because your insurance is not going to cover it. Everything else, just use your justice. I remember the guy telling us very serious. He goes, look, we had a problem with a kid going to the United States because you're 20 years old. You can legally drink. So he was drunk while on the plane. In Russia.

From Russia. Yeah, Russian exchange student going to the USA. He got drunk while on the plane. And when he appeared in front of an immigration officer, the passport control, he was drunk. So we had to come in and bail him out. He goes, don't drink on the plane. And then he winks at us and he goes, well, I recommend California shardinandin. It's excellent. That kind of rules. I remember when I was sitting, well, basically they were like, I don't know, a few hundred kids of my age, 20 years old.

And we didn't care about anything else. We had one question. Why? Why are you paying so much money for us to go to the United States and study? And this fella looked at us all, and he answered, because you go to the USA, you see the way we live, you come back, and you will never be at war with us. I still remember that answer.

Shoot me. I was like, okay, now I understand. Everything is clear now. So an American guy, a state department guy said this. Yeah, yeah, state department, yes. because I think the State Department paid $36,000 back in 1996 taxpayers' dollars for me to go to move to the United States for one year and study. So my question was why? Why do you feed me? Why do you, you know, like I live on campus. Why do I go to school for taxpayers' money? Why? And then he gave me a perfect answer. Where you go to the United States, you learn our ways, you come back, you will never fight in the war with us. And he was right.

Yeah, for the Soviet Union, he was quite correct, I guess. There was no war there. so far. And there's still, yeah, I guess we're not technically at war with Russia. Maybe an economic war. It could get a little worse. I guess we'll see. Not one single person who was a part of that exchange student supports the war in Ukraine. Not one. We're all anti-war activists. I keep in touch with few people I made friends back then. And that guy was right. I wish everyone could have that experience as I did. That's fascinating. When I was an exchange student in Germany, former East Germany, the grandfather of that family was, he was 17 years old and he'd fought for Germany in World War II. He himself was not a member of the Nazi party or anything. He was just like a low-level

grunt in the Wehrmacht. People are always like, oh my God, your exchange grandfather was a Nazi. It's a little different. They were like Nazi believers and then there were kids who were like, I got drafted. I guess I'm going to go to the front lines. It's a totally different thing. I told him I was Jewish and American and he was like, oh, okay, wow, I want to shake your hand. I've never shaken an American's hand before. But he was a prisoner of war and they sent him to Maryland and he was like, it was great. He's like, yes, I was in prison, but the food was amazing. And he's like, the Americans were actually really nice to us. A lot of them were our age. I learned some English. We played cards all the time, even with the guards and with each other and they didn't beat us up. They didn't treat us bad or

anything. And he's like, I really would have loved to have seen more of the United States. This is a guy who was in prison, a military prison in the United States. And his thing was, man, I wish I'd seen more of the country before they sent me back to Germany. That, I thought, was a very bizarre experience. Because he had his years abroad, but it wasn't the same as what you experienced, most likely, as an exchange student. He had a different kind of exchange. Yeah, very different. I had very different kind of exchange. So you have this unique perspective on the United States and Russia because we're such a hybrid of both worlds, including, like I said, the former Soviet Union. So what was your first impression of the United States when you get off the plane? Because I would imagine, is part of you

winning that scholarship? Did you show some proficiency in English? Or was it just like, hey, you have good grades, go to America if you want to? I had a perfect A in America. It's considered perfect A record. You know, I had all A's. Okay, straight A's. And I had like highest owner graduated with gold medal from school. And all of us who were in that exchange program, we graduated with their gold medals. My English wasn't that great, very basic, because they didn't teach us good English, just good enough to pass, you know, to get ahead of others. When I got to the United States, I didn't understand anything. So my English skills were very, very basic. But you've got to understand the situation in Russia in the 90s. I was growing up on the impression

that the USA was the cradle of all evil in the world, okay, it was bad. And then the world started opening up, and I understood that the commies were lying. I started asking questions. And then the floodgate was open. The late 80s, we started seeing American movies, programs on TV, and then the Soviet Union fell apart. McDonald's came in, for goodness sake, you know? Yeah. And that was a huge, huge blow to communism, by the way.

McDonald's? That was one of the nails of the communism casket was like... I'm serious. I'm serious. Because imagine, for 70 years, you're told that nothing good for people in the West. Nothing. It's darkness there. And all of a sudden, you have something bright, tasty, nice looking, people smiling, great colors everywhere in the atmosphere of happiness.

That comes from the West. And we immediately started asking questions. How come we don't have this? We supposedly the best country in the world. We don't have this. What is going on? You're lying to us. Something is bad.

What was funny to see, because I was like 15 years old, had the time. And I was open about it. I was telling everyone, what the hell is going on? But the adults, they were ashamed. They looked the other way because they couldn't explain. Okay. So I would say there was a lot of food for thought, McDonald's, when it opened up. Good pun.

Yeah. And then when we go to early 90s and we're in love with America. America is the best, you know, there's big American bands, Metallica, the Scorpions, Bon Jovi, come in an atmosphere of happiness, okay? We're finally friends. We finally, we Russians are finally accepted into this atmosphere of, like, happiness, you know, of brotherhood, of the world countries. We're finally there. We're not, you know, the evil empire any longer.

Yeah. So I kind of saw the both worlds, but when I got to the United States, my first first impressions answering your question where I was shocked and I was amazed by so many things. I was amazed by how the country was organized, how people were, how things were run. I saw that I could have my own opinion and people respected that. And even if they had different opinion, they wouldn't beat me up. They wouldn't scream at me. Hey, you foreigner, you don't know anything. That would actually be very polite and respected. Say, hey, I disagree with that. I think you're wrong. But I would die defending your right to have your own opinion.

Things like that were shaking my entire existence. I was falling in love in the United States in my first weeks there, you know, because to this point I haven't seen it anywhere else. So that was my first impression. I also so many other things, too. It's just what you take for granted, I found absolutely marvelous and amazing. Free refills, man. Free refills.

Yes, yes. That's one thing that my European friends always go, I can't believe that when you're almost done or not even done with your drink, they just bring you another one. It also the fact that the small drink is 18 times the size of the medium drink in Europe. It's like, no wonder everyone's obese.

We'll get there. Free ketchup. Yeah, and free ketchup. It's like, you don't pay for that? No, they give it to me and I put it back in the thing when I'm done because they give me 18 packets and I needed two. Yeah, I'm wondering, because McDonald's,

The bar is low, right? I mean, in the United States, McDonald's is like something you do when you're just like, crap, I only have eight minutes, and I'm starving. I want some chicken nuggets before I go to swim class with my kids. It's that kind of thing. And I would imagine in Moscow going to that one McDonald's was a big deal, right? Save your money, wait in line. The line, I remember seeing it on the news, and it was like a six-hour line when it opened

to get a Big Mac, and people were like crazy, mind-blown. And this is probably the cultural elite who could even afford to go to that McDonald's in the first place. I don't know how it worked back in the Soviet Union. Then you come to America and it's like, I don't want to go to McDonald's because I have a choice of going literally anywhere else and enough time to eat, literally anything else. You know, it's like at the bottom of the food chain, so to speak. Well, on my example, you can see how a person evolves. Because McDonald's was a miracle for me back in 1990. My dream was to go and have food at McDonald's, to eat at McDonald's. I remember I saw the very same news report that you did at the same time, huge lines. To us, it was like a bomb.

My parents were speechless. They didn't understand how could an American company open a cafe joined a restaurant in Soviet Union. How was this possible? On one side, they're telling you these horrible things about America. You know, they arrest you for things. And then they open American restaurant. So we showed up at school next morning with my buddies and we were just speechless and they were just, we've got to go there. We've got to save money. There's a plan. We've got to save money. And it was very expensive, unaffordable for us to go to McDonald's. But hey, we came up with a plan to save, to use freight trains to get to Moscow, 24-hour ride for free, you know, to eat, to have a meal at McDonald's.

Like you were going to jump on the top of a train and, like, ride on it? Inside of this big trucks, empty trucks, going north to Moscow. Yeah, that was a plan. It didn't work out. That sounds dangerous. We were a plan. Yes. Oh my God. And then I came to the USA and I had this thing for McDonald's. So McDonald's was never at early age, years. It was never about food for me. It was about the image, about the lifestyle, about new life that I could actually touch, taste, be a part of it. And then I came to the USA. I ate quite a lot of fast food because I didn't cook back then. Well, yeah. And it was always McDonald's because of that. I had this image of in my head,

stuck in my head. But over the years, I had a lot of, I was in my head. But over the years, I said goodbye to McDonald's and rarely ate at festival joints and McDonald's was my bottom choice. Sure. Okay. Yeah. So I get that. I'm with you.

I'm curious. You mentioned in the video that McDonald's, one of the things that you were curious about was the person at the cash register, they would smile at you and that was novel. And you say, people didn't really smile in the Soviet Union. What do you mean by that? They still don't. Tell me about that. Because I find that so hard to believe.

Isn't it human nature to just smile at people? Isn't that a thing that people do without even thinking? In the USA, yes. In Western countries, yes, but not in Russia. In the USSR, you know, I thought about it a lot. It's not much to smile about. He only smiled when somebody would crack a joke or something good happened to your family, things like that.

But no one smiled because what was there to smile about? I remember only after one year of living in the USA started smiling. And I remember it was a cute girl living in the door when I was talking to my friends, and she came by and she said, well, you know what, you're Russian. This is the first time I see you smile. Yeah. One year after, you know, I moved to the USA. Wow.

Took a minute. McDonald's was their thing. They advertised. And we always serve you with a smile. And we're like, wow. Wow. Where else can you get that? Literally.

Yeah. Forget the food. to travel 24 hours on a dangerous freight train and risk getting arrested so we can see a 17-year-old girl smile at us when we order our food. That's sort of a damning indictment of the mood of the Soviet Union at that time, at least in terms of the smiles. Let me tell you, they weren't any 17-year-old girls working there. It was a career job, very well-paid job compared to others. Like, engineers would quit their jobs and go to work at McDonald's to make more money. Oh, my God.

It was very prestigious job in 1990, 91, 92. Let me tell you. I can't imagine ordering fries from a heart surgeon. It seems like a waste of potential, right? Like, hey, man, thank you, doctor. Yes, I will have fries with that. That's a, man, that always makes me kind of feel sad. Years ago, I remember talking with a gas station attendant in Michigan where I grew up.

It was Ramadan or something like that, and he was eating. And I was like, oh, why are, you know, you're eating right now. it's so late and he's like oh Ramadan and I got to talking with him and he explained to me that he moved to Michigan to open up this gas station because his brother had a gas station and it was like his business and back in his home country which I think was Pakistan or Bangladesh or one of those he was a surgeon but in America he ran a gas station and I was just thinking you know do you regret moving and he's like no it's much better my life is better here his life is better running a gas station in America than it was being a doctor a surgeon in his home country and I just thought

like, gosh, what is that place like for normal people? Well, look, you don't have to go far. Come to Tashkent, 2024. You will find a brain surgeon here trying to get to the United States, and he reached out to me, said, how do I become computer tester? Why? Well, that's the only way I know how to get to the USA.

I want to change my profession to be the tester. And what do you do for living? What did you do in Russia? Oh, I was a brain surgeon. The experience, he goes, yeah, like 1,500 hours of, surgeries. Wow. So it does happen even now in Russia. So you don't have to travel back to 1990 to McDonald's to see that. Plenty of engineers, doctors. Some doctors work as doctors, but they're paid peanuts here in Uzbekistan, but they still don't want to go back to Russia. And everyone

is trying to make it to one of the Western countries. I want to talk about why you're in Uzbekistan in a minute. But tell me about your first job in the United States, because you you went after it like a champ, man. Good memories, good memories. My first job was I was a parking lot sweeper. I didn't even know that was a thing, by the way. But I guess you were near the water, near the beach. If you are in Old Orchard Beach, Maine, and you're right next to the beach,

there's a bunch of sand dunes, and the wind blows on shore all the time. So it just blows wind. And the parking lot right next to the dunes, and it's always kind of. covered with thin layer of sand. And there's a job there at every motel. They just, people go back and forth and sweep parking lots. Perhaps now they have robots or, I don't know, vacuum cleaners or something like that, but back then, it was good old broom, okay, and me. It was May. I landed my first job in May. And I loved it because it paid me like, I think, either $6 or $7 an hour, and I was working legally because my visa allowed me to work.

I had tape recorder, no CD players back then yet. So you had like a Walkman? Yeah, yeah, like Walkman with the tape in it. I listened to music from morning till night, and all I did was just going back and forth sweeping the parking lot. And I was loving it because I was making in two or three days more than both of my parents with high education and degrees were making a month in Russia back in 1997. So I absolutely.

loved my job. And then I got the opportunity to see what America is all about at that job. And I think I finally fell in love with the country back then. That was a day when someone didn't show up at the hotel at the front desk, I like a clerk, manager, front desk manager. And there was no one around. Okay. And our manager, she was looking for anyone to cover. And then she looked at me and I was the only one sweeping parking lot. So she ran to me, said, let's go. me out at the desk. And she basically told me to stay at the desk and I was very nervous. I could barely speak English. I didn't know anything about that kind of job. And she said, don't worry. It's a slow day. And if you have a question, there's telephone number, give me a call and I'll

explain everything. I'll even speak to guests. Okay. And then she said that she'll pay me like a dollar extra. Made some kind of bonus for me. Okay, fine. So I was covering and I was alone at the hotel. I off-season in Maine, it's still cold. But somehow, like in midweek, people started showing up. I did not turn anyone down, and I would go extra mile to cellarum, let's put it this way. I really liked it. I really liked talking to people, and they were so friendly. That's another thing about Americans. You're so friendly if person, you know, doesn't speak English much. You never say, like, oh, your English is terrible. No. So I don't know. Say it again. Oh, that's fine. Where'd you come from? Oh, how do you like the United States? That type of thing. Everyone was just cheering.

When they saw that, I was trying my best, and I were very nice, and I loved it. And I would take everyone by hand, and I would just go and show the room, because I couldn't explain what the rooms were about, right? And the rooms were pricey, because we were right on the beach, and I was telling them that, look, you can go, I was trying to tell them, at least using my hands, fingers and everything. So body language. You can go across the street pay a little bit. more, but how many chances do you have to do this? And I would sit them at the lounge chair, have them look over the beach and sunsetting. And they absolutely loved it. And you see, I loved it. The first time I saw the ocean was in Maine, I absolutely loved it. And I was showing them what I loved doing. And they were taking rooms. And I sold like half of the hotel.

Yeah. I remember the next morning the manager showed up. She was absolutely amazed. And the same happened like second day, third day, and then everything went back to normal. I still don't know why people were, you know, buying rooms for me, staying at the hotel. Perhaps they felt really sad and sorry about me trying to sell them so hard, you know. Yeah, I'm like, oh, this guy must get paid commission or something. We better stay here, just one night. You know, help out this Russian guy who can barely speak English, things like that. Right. Like we feel bad leaving. He's going to take it personally. That's funny, man. So you're making like 700 bucks a week and your parents are making, what, 300 bucks a month combined? Yes, yes. Let me get to that. It was the funniest part

happened next. Okay. I literally exhaled. I'm like, who, everyone showed up. Everyone got better, not sick anymore. And a couple of desk managers doing their jobs. So now I take my broom and I go to sweep my parking lot. This is what I do best, right? And then as soon as I walk out of the office, I see the owner of the hotel pulling in and said, how did you sell the rooms? And I told them how I was selling rooms. And he said, well, you know what? We have this guy, John, and he's great at sweeping parking lots. He's even better than you are, okay? And it's going to be taking your job, but I want you to work at the desk and keep on selling rooms. I said, no, no, no, I can't do that. I don't speak English. I can't sell rooms. Come on. He's like, you know what? I'm going to give you a raise. I'll pay you a dollar more an hour.

And I was like, done. You know, sold. So this is how he started my career, basically. And I started selling rooms, and I was selling them a lot. And when the owner bought another hotel, and he sent me to go and kind of like set it up. And I remember I walked in. I was a manager, an older guy, and he's almost his 50s. And it was a son of a mayor.

And he was reporting me. He was writing down what I was telling him, okay? Right, you're his boss. Oh, my gosh. And how old are you like 20? I was 20. I must have just turned 21, right? I was thinking right then, there was a moment.

I remember, I was thinking, you know, this country is absolutely great because they value your hard work and what you do. They don't value who you are, where you came from, you speak English or not. There's opportunity for everyone. This is really the land of opportunity. Right then, right then, I don't. I fell in love with the USA, the best country in the world. You contrast that with this American system of moving up because of your work ethic, whatever you want to call it, to the Russian blood system.

Tell me about the blood system, because I think a lot of people accuse America of having this, and sure we have nepotism and sometimes people hire their friends or protect their friends, but it's a totally different world from how things work in Russia, according to your videos. Absolutely. Only not blood, but it's a Russian word. blood tea at the end blood oh I really didn't put that together I thought you meant blood it's really hard for me to pronounce it right blood is nepotism in America you know the system that you got to know someone to get ahead to get a good job to get high place in

the society and this is how it works in Russia so when I returned they made me the manager the very first year that I started working for them literally a few months after sweeping parking lot and you know what they were right I was doing a good job Okay. I could barely speak English. At that time, I had a few employees under me and like older American guys and I was doing scheduling and I was taking care of customer relations and sales and everything. Small operation, but still, you know. And I went back to Russia and I was telling everyone. Everyone was, I left Russia, was nobody. No one besides my family knew me. But I returned to Russia a star. For one simple reason, I had spent one year in the USA. That was very unique experience and everyone wanted to speak with me, to hear my story. And when I was telling them the story and I told them, well, I made the manager, the hotel, no one believed me. They said, uh, you're lying. You're making this up. You know, not didn't say lying, but they politely like, oh, you probably like telling us a little more. Oh yeah. Congratulations.

He probably doesn't really, you know, but he's proud of himself, let it go, that kind of thing. Yeah, that type of thing. And then they couldn't believe that, me coming from a different country without knowing anyone, without family there, without connections, that I could lend a job, a managerial job, okay? So that was very interesting. Russia is run on blood. It was like that in the USSR, and for a brief period it changed in the 90s for about 15, 17 years in the early 2000s.

But now it's back with the bank, the system, unfortunately. And that's one of the reasons why what's happening in Russia is happening. It's a close circle. Russia is taken by a certain gang, and only who belongs to the gang are allowed to run the country and so forth. In the United States, compared to Russia, it's like, we're all humans, okay? There is blood in America, but very, very little, okay, compared to Russia. I guess the difference sounds to me like if you have blood, in America, okay, your dad's a senator, you go to a private school, you end up at a decent

university, even if he has to do a donation or like offer free commencement speeches to get you in or something like that. And then you get a decent job or maybe you even work for him in his office. So you have a little bit of a paved, plowed road. But if you don't have any of that, you can still go to a decent public school, go to a decent university, pay your loans off, become a lawyer or whatever, like you might have some student loans, but it's not impossible. It sounds like in Russia, either you are a golden child who gets the best education, best opportunities, the best jobs, or no matter what you do, you're basically screwed, unless you're in some sort of criminal enterprise and you're, you know, completely outside of society.

More or less, yes, with the exceptions, of course. Let me just give you an example. That case in Maine, back in 97 was a very good case to explain. I came to this new hotel, and I had had not any experience in teaching, in setting up hotels or anything like that. So I was just learning myself on the go, and I had very little experience at the other hotel. So I came in, and there's a guy, and he, you know, dressed up in a suit for me, and he starts taking notes of what I say,

and he turned out to be the size. a loyal local mayor. And the owners ended up firing him because he didn't know what he was doing, right? How it would work in Russia, if we were in Russia? The mayor's son would be the general director of all hotels, probably even taking ownership of the business. If it was not agreed with the owners, then they would simply not have their license renewed.

Or a police would come and, you know, check on their places way too often or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there's no choice the owners would have. They would have to take the son, even if it was not very professional. That's how it would work in Russia. For the most part, it's still how it works in different ways, but the idea has been the same. That's awful. It's basically, you just have this tax of having this annoying owner taking part of your business who allows you to operate and adds no one.

value other than allowing you to operate. Jordan, that was before in Russia. Now it's much worse. Now the KGB comes in and just steals your company. You know, they take the ownership. They steal the ownership away from you. You know, they sue you and the court rules into their, you know, your company transfers to state and then state leases it out to a person who's supposed to lease it to.

You know what I mean? I see. So now it's much worse. You said in one of your videos, a good job in Russia is a job where you can steal a lot instead of just stealing a little, instead of just working. Right. So it's like maybe you could be a doctor and you have like some sort of okay salary. But a good job would be a government job where you can extort business owners or something like that. Doctors don't make a lot in Russia. $1,300 per month is considered very good salary.

And there's tons of proofs. Many doctors get together and make video recording. addressed to Vladimir Putin, please help us, we're not getting paid and things like that. But what would be a good job, I know what is considered the good job, is the head of the hospital. Because he or she is in charge of all procurement.

I see. The government money goes to the hospital, the head of the hospital chooses who to buy from. Of course, for a fee. Yeah, right, I'm going to buy from the person who kicks back 10% to me personally. Yes, and no matter that the equipment is 50% more expensive, and less quality than from the other guy.

They got to get that 10% from somewhere, right? So, and I'm allowing them to get away with whatever because I'm crooked too. So here's your dirty syringe. I'm going to be on my yacht. I mean, that sucks. Or you will set up your own company, let's say your cousin's company and then buy it from him, something like that. Right.

Oh, man. Some jobs in the United States have crooked elements, in my opinion. For example, I don't know if you know this. Our Congress can essentially engage in insider trading where they can use information. that they know from government meetings, and then they can, their husband or cousin or brother, or I think even themselves, can trade stocks based on that. And that's awful, and they should eliminate that, in my opinion. However, it's not an outright kleptocracy where they are doing what we just discussed, for example, with the hospital procurement. I mean, that would be,

that would be straight up illegal. And I think the insider trading element should be illegal as well, because essentially they're stealing from all of us when we're investing, not knowing that inside information, but I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole. I'm just trying to be fair in that we have some of that, but it's completely different in scale, too, from the sound of it. Absolutely. You're right on. We're all humans. We all have temptations. Okay, but systems are completely different. People must certainly ask, okay, if all the really good opportunities went to people who are well-connected, how come you got straight A's and they didn't just give your scholarship to some punk whose dad was important? Because it wasn't the Russians who were,

giving out scholarships. Oh, it was the United States, right? It was the Americans. That was the United. Yes. I see. Yes. All right.

So you stay in the U.S. for a bit. You've moved to the U.S. at 20. You moved back to Russia at age 29. Why go back to Russia? What was the impetus there? I had very good life in the USA. I continued my education in southern Maine. I met a goal.

I fell in love with. We had a kid. And after so many years, having the same job, Maine isn't the most exciting place in the world. It's probably the best place in the world, but it was far from the most exciting. And my wife was raised in California, Southern California, and she kept telling me stories about Southern California. And she was becoming registered nurse. We decided to change our lives to move someplace. We went and checked out California, Santa Barbara, Fantasio, drove all over California. And Santa Barbara called it. Santa Barbara

caught awry. So we came to Maine, came back, and I told my friends that I was thinking of moving to California. So they immediately made me a counteroffer. Said, don't stay in Maine. We'll buy another hotel. We'll make your junior partner, which was incredible. I was 28 at the time. So either way, it was fantastic. I had two fantastic choices. But there was something inside of me that didn't let me sleep well at nights. I felt like if I were to make one of the moves, either to stay in Maine or to go to California, then I would have to put my roots there because our kid was growing up, going to school. And I felt like there something out there doesn't let me feel comfortable. And I missed my family so much. I missed Russia. I missed Russian language. I missed Russian culture.

I was 100% Russian, born and raised. right? I was thinking and thinking and thinking and somebody just called me and offered a job from Russia. People I knew, it was like someone from above gave me the answer. And I said, well, what's the pay? Oh, don't worry about it. That's going to be good. You're going to like it. Where we're going to live. I have a family. Oh, listen, we'll set you up. Just come. And I took the plunge. I basically talked to my wife and we decided to move to Moscow for a couple of years. Wow. And this is how I moved, but my decision was based on I wanted to see the family.

I wanted my child to get, you know, exposure to Russian culture. I wanted to speak Russian for a while. I wanted my wife to know where I was coming from, that type of thing. This is why I moved. Did people think you were crazy leaving the United States for Russia? Like, did Russians say, what the hell? You lived in America? You're going to move to California?

And now you're back in Moscow and it's January? What's wrong with you? I must have been asked that question 10,000 times. 10,000 times. Everyone. Yeah. And then I would tell them, look, I could see in their eyes, like, oh, okay. But then they didn't believe me.

They're like, ah, he must be absolutely insane. Yeah. He either was, I don't know, kicked out or he's like crazy. Yeah. No one, no one believed me. Even a full-time parking lot sweeper can afford to take advantage of the great deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators every single week,

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muscles and things like that. You know, I'll remind you, there were two attempts. Well, one attempt and one realized attempt. The first one was in April of 2021, when Russia started moving large amounts of troops to the Ukrainian border, to the city of Rostov and all around Rostov. That's where I'm from. See, in Russia, I lived in two cities in Moscow. My job was, and my family was in Rostov. My second wife and my family in all their world from Rostov from the same place. So I saw the military. I saw the planes flying over our house, the big bombers. I saw everything with my own eyes, but I didn't believe I had not one single. doubt that Russia would never invade Ukraine. And it happened the first time. Russians just

moved back to where they came from throughout the country. And then the same thing happened only towards the end of 2021. And I kept saying, same thing. Hey, Russian troops can move whatever they want within Russia as long as they don't step over the border, then they're fine. The whole idea of invading Ukraine sounded absolutely insane. I mean, can New Hampshire invade Maine or Maine invade New Hampshire. You know, I lived right next to Ukraine. I was growing up there. I speak Russian with Ukrainian accent, southern accent.

I lived in Ukraine for one year. Okay, I have friends in Ukraine. Yeah. I worked in Ukraine. I started businesses there. I know people. And it never felt like I was in a foreign country. And it's just people spoke with a little different accent, that's all.

And thinking that Russians could, none in Russia thought that, believed that we could invade Ukraine, okay? And then I was absolutely caught off-guarded by what happened on 24th of February. I was just, I'm still shocked, to be honest with you. I'm used to it now, but I'm still like, it's unbelievable. What did you do right away? I mean, was it just, let's watch the news, or did you think there was going to be a draft? Because I know, actually, let me back up. What happened first? Was it American companies pulling out? Or was the draft first? I don't remember the timeline. I never cared too much about the draft.

It wasn't the draft. There are two systems in Russia. First is draft. Everyone who turns 18 must go and serve two years. It used to be two years. Now it's one year, I think. And that is mobilization. That's completely different.

Mobilization is announced at time of wars, things like that. So when Putin came out and said, and I remember I woke up, and I came to the first floor in my house, and I saw him speaking to Russians, saying, I announced a special military operation. And it looked at that time, like, he had no doubts that it would end soon within a few days. No one had any doubts. Even I called my Ukrainian friends, and they were absolutely down because they were being bombed. By this said, well, you know what, that's going to get over soon because this, not good people, will take the Kiev very soon.

They're like approaching and closing on Kiev. No one had any doubts. I was more concerned with what's happening with my country because the moment that I heard that Russia invaded Ukraine started the war, I understood everything what was going to happen, okay? It's clear. Russia is no more, was no more, as a new country was born, and the Russia that I knew that I returned to did not exist anymore, okay?

I absolutely knew about society changing and the economy is going down the drain and Soviet Union coming back because it's obvious. American companies started pulling out. There was a shock and a vacuum. No Russian officials understood. None of them knew. And no one was commenting.

They didn't know what to say. It was something like official propaganda, military on TV all the time, and Putin, and a couple more people. That's it. Like all local politicians, they had no clue that all weren't shocked. They were saying, what the fudge? And of course, it wasn't the fudge.

You know. Blu'at. Yes. Yes. That's the one you hear in all the Russian videos. Yes. That's pretty much, you know, you get it. Yeah.

And then the second day, I remember things started changing. Some people started bashing each other on Facebook. Because some would come out and say, what are you doing? Are you insane? You're killing Ukrainians. In others, it was like, you got to be with a president. The president knows what he's doing. There must be Nazis there.

So I saw the crack in the society. Right. And I saw people stopping, talking to each other. And I'm like, wow, this is... Anyway, I was day number two. I started streaming. And I've streamed every single day ever since. I started looking for ways how to help.

I started thinking, what can I do? I started feeling incredible guilt because I'm taxpayer and Walter, and I saw that what was happening to Russia. I didn't do anything. So the first company to pull out was, IKEA, and they didn't warn anyone. They said, we're closing all our stores tomorrow. And it was a huge shock to all politicians, because they were saying, they will never do that. They will never leave Russia, because all they care is a buck. You know, they care about profits. That's the people

from the West. They're very pragmatic and so forth. And then all of a sudden, IKEA says, we'll close in the stores. But like, everything must go sale today for one day. And all Russians, of course, flock to IKEA. And they started picking up, you know, things that like half price. So K closes, McDonald's, closes, Apple closes, and a bunch of other companies just pull out. Microsoft stopped selling licenses, and I worked at the engineering company, and we were about to buy AutoCAD, you know, that's engineering software.

All of a sudden, our system administrator comes out, says, I can't do that anymore. Everything has been blocked. And then Visa MasterCard stopped working in Russia, and it was, this was like instant, okay? Summer was pretty bad because Russians were advancing further into Ukraine. Then the military started coming in from the West. Ukrainians started pushing back and basically this is when we saw big changes in the military because Russians started running away, running back.

But mobilization was announced on September 21st because obviously they did not have, too many Russians were killed. And we still don't know how many officially because they haven't. told us anything. But they announced mobilization because they were running out of people. And this is when I left Russia. How did you get out of Russia? What was that decision process like, actually? I'm curious. You know, were you thinking, like, I can stay for a little while, I shouldn't stay for a little while? I mean, what was the, how did you evaluate your options? When the war started, when Russia invaded Ukraine on the 24th, me and my wife, we sat down at the table, and I made a view video. I played a

I don't know, Jordan. I felt so hurt for Ukraine and for my country, for my people. It was like betrayal of everything that I believed in. I uploaded the video. Actually, I cried on the video because that's how emotional I felt. And we started to discuss what to do next with my wife. And we both were absolutely sure that we can't do that. We can't take part of this madness. We got to go. We got to leave. And we didn't know where or when, but we knew that that's it. We were done in Russia. Unfortunately, we couldn't live right then because when you have your entire life in one country, where you have everything, like we had a house and Rostov, we had an apartment in Moscow, cars, kids were going to schools, and it's difficult just to get up and go. And we were

preparing for so long. And the kick in the butt for me was the mobilization, because I felt like, I already had talked too much because I was the only Russian voice speaking English on the internet reporting from Russia. There were quite a few YouTubers, but they just stopped doing it when the war started. This is a close community. I knew pretty much all of them personally, but they just told me we're afraid because we're going to get arrested. Well, I felt like I could not be afraid. I was afraid too, but I could not not do it. I had my son, Michael, was five at the time. Every time I would imagine him and 20 or 25 coming to me and asking, Dad, what were you doing back then? What was your role? How we were trying to fix things?

And then what would I say? And then I'm actually very proud of what I'm doing. When he's 20, I will tell him. I will show him. So anyway, I kept on streaming every single day, But I felt like they could use commobilization as a tool as an excuse to get rid of me. Okay. And I felt pretty insecure. And from 21st through 27th, at every live stream, I would say goodbye to all the viewers. I had quite a large audience, a few thousand people watching me every day. I would say, look, if I don't talk to you again, if I don't show up here tomorrow,

know that you've been great, you know, that type of thing. Wow. Clouds were getting thicker, and my wife was so mad about me not leaving. I bet. And she was pushing me, and I remember we're sitting Saturday, and all of a sudden, and I'm just, like, what do I do? I know I need to leave, but when do I leave? Okay. And then there's email coming in.

There's a lady from Germany, Daniela Fromm. We communicated before, and said, Constance has been a while, but I had this word feeling. I had to send you a Bible verse. Okay. And the verse just, you know, I was asking, like, to discuss in Bonatasha, when, how, and the verse just gave me the answer. It was absolutely incredible, okay? Literally, I read the answer. And right then I said, okay, this is the sign that I got to go. And I immediately started looking for a ticket, bought a ticket to middle of nowhere, to Tajikistan. That's the only ticket was available. Paid $5,200 for economic loss. Wow. And I remember I bought the ticket. And then I realized that I only have 36 hours to, this is it.

You know, in 36 hours, I wouldn't be in Russia ever, again, perhaps. What does that flight normally cost that you paid $1,500? Was it normally like $200? Usually $200, yeah. Wow. It's just there were no tickets. There were 700,000 people who were living in three days, okay? I remember the tickets to destinations like Tel Aviv in Israel or Yerevan, they were selling for million rubles, which is over $10,000.

Oh my God. It's like $12,000, $13,000, okay? So I was lucky that I got that ticket to who jumped because no one knows that such place exists. Okay. You know how I found the ticket? I actually went to a website of the airport and I started looking at all flights there, international flights. and I would check every single flight specifically. And then I found one ticket and I was gone like that.

So I had 36 hours to prepare and I was, Jordan, it's really hard for me to explain when you understand that you just have to get up and take a step into unknown, into a dark room when you don't know anything. You don't know anyone there. So I spent most of Saturday giving out power. attorney to my wife. Yeah. In case something happens to me, so she could sell things.

And that was the first time when I realized that I was so lucky because I give my life to my wife, everything I own, and I don't even think I have any suspicions. I'm just, I'm happy to do that. Yeah, you have no trust issues or anything. No worries. No, absolutely not. And, you know, I was thinking, what if I didn't trust my wife? Like, what would I do?

But so, yeah. I've been blessed in many ways. In 36 hours, I was gone just like that. The hardest thing was to say goodbye to my son, to my daughters, to my wife. My wife took me to the airport. She was crying all the way. I got out of the car, and I had to say goodbye to her, and I saw hundreds of men pulling in the cars, the wife's driving,

and all in the same situation. Wives crying. Some men were crying. Some men were just, well, no one was smiling, that's for sure. And the airport was filled, packed with Russians. I actually made a video about that. You saw that, right? It's got to be, you're not sure when you're going to see your family again at that point, right?

You're just like, okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's stepping into unknown. To get out of Russia was pretty, pretty big challenge because five people in front of me who were standing for passport control, they were turned away. They were not allowed to leave Russia. Really?

Why? mobilization was announced. Perhaps they had some deaths outstanding, perhaps KGB was looking for or mobilization offices. I don't know, but not everyone was allowed to leave. But it definitely was the exodus. It was really hard to forget those hours. I bet. I'm curious what Russia was like right before you left. You know, you mentioned IKEA closed. I know McDonald's closed because there's an interesting video you did on your last meal at McDonald's where you go and order stuff and you show just the massive long lines, and then even after closing, there's still kids like, let me get that food. But what else? You did a video, I'm willing to this in the show notes,

where you went to this fancy, gigantic mall, and it was just dead. I mean, it looked like you broke in when they were closed, but all the lights are on. It was crazy how empty that place was. That's how Russia looked. Everyone was stressed. Everyone didn't know what was going on and what was going to happen. That was before the mobilization was announced. Everyone understood that something incredibly wrong was going on in Russia, okay? The country started moving to a wrong direction and a very dangerous direction. And everyone was stressed, everyone was concerned about themselves. It wasn't such a great fear back then for freedoms and lives,

because the terror started happening later, I would say closer to the mobilization. So people still could say people were not arrested for wearing Ukrainian colors, things of that. Right now, if you even like in the social networks, if you like Ukrainian flag, you get seven years in prison, you know. Is that true? That seems insane. It is insane. It's true. It's true. Wow. If you read something Ukrainian in the subway, they would denounce that people denounce you. They go and tell local cops, a copse, look at the video footage, and then they arrest you.

Things like that happening in Russia. It's really bad. It's like North Korea. Oh, he was reading an English newspaper. He must be a spy. Not there yet. Not there yet. But it's getting there very, very fast.

And the worst thing is that they have created laws. They've laid out legal foundation for this. Now they're acting according to Russian laws. Okay. And the law says that, yes, you can be detained for spreading the fakes. They call it the fakes of Russian army. Yes, you can be detained. detained for defaming government officials and things like that. Now, if you wish Russian army defeat,

if you wish Ukrainian army win, they can arrest you for treason. That's the article of the criminal code that is used widely in Russia now. Oh my gosh. Have things rebounded at all? I know you're not in Russia, but I'm not sure what your friends and family are seeing and saying. I mean, has the economy come back a little? Because we always hear like, oh, the sanctions aren't working, you know, they're not doing anything. I talk about it almost daily. Sanctions are working. Sanctions are working very well. There's an opinion that the sanctions are not working because a lot of Western media rely on information data that comes from Russian government. And that data is a little altered, cooked. And they say, well, look, Russia has grown 3.6% in 2023.

Well, I'm sorry, but how come Russian president changes the Minister of Defense in the middle of war? And the new Minister of Defense proclaims that his main goal is to cut expenses in the Russian military, to run things leaner in a leaner way. So they say one thing, they do absolutely another thing. How come prices have gone up so much in Russia for everything? That's high inflation. In a normal economy, if sanctions weren't working, prices wouldn't be growing up like crazy.

Things like that. There are so many things indicate that sanctions are working, okay? But Russian official propaganda keep on saying, sanctions aren't working, Russia is doing great, and so forth. Well, I'll tell you what. Vladimir Putin was elected the president for the fifth time. Well, can hardly call it the elections, but let's call it this way. sugar-coating, they were sugar-coating everything for six or so months to create illusion of stability for Russian people, for everyone.

But now sugar-coating is off. And right now, Russia is in great turbulence because the war of the clans, political clans, is happening where it's visible now. Shoegoos out, patrusovs out, doomings out, and so forth, you know. So this sugar-coating is off and all you have to do is you have to look at. at Russia and you will see that sanctions are working. And they won't even be saying that sanctions aren't working because this is it. They don't need to. Vladimir Putin is the president for six more years. Now they don't care. So you watch. You'll be seeing lots of interesting things in Russia very soon. A lot of tankies online say, well, the unemployment rate is really low and that's

part of the reason you have such high inflation, I would imagine. I know that didn't they also start hiring women and 14-year-old kids to work in factories in order to sort of make up for the labor shortage as well? The unemployment is record low in Russia and at all times. It's 2.8% now. And as economist, I tell you, this is terrible. It's absolutely terrible. It means that economic growth is impossible. There aren't too many people to work, okay? And you're absolutely right, they are allowing 14-year-old children to work at the factories now. Moreover,

they are coming up by June 1st, I believe they will come up with a list of 48 professions to assign those kids to. They are recruiting women to fight in the war, and they are recruiting just about anyone to do

hard manual labor, including women. So this is hardly situation normal. type of situation in Russia. This isn't everything normal. This isn't going according to the plan. This is sanctions working right there. I know that a lot of people, you have this Tashkent breakfast club, which is like expat Russians who are leaving or who have left, I should say, who's leaving Russia right now and in the past few years? And will those people eventually just go

back to Russia when this is all over? What do you think? I would say that whoever understands what's going on, what's truly going on, tries to leave Russia. Not all can, because there are circumstances. Some people just can't afford it. Some people too afraid. Some people have old parents to care for and think. I've seen it all, okay? People who have hearts leave. People who can see a few steps ahead, leave. And so far, my estimations, around three million Russians have left. What I was seeing in late September was Exodus. I had never seen anything like that. There were thousands and thousands of men,

and we all landed in Hujand. It's in the middle of nowhere in Tajikistan, among high mountains. And there were like three or four locals, and then a plane full of Russian men in 30s and 40s. And we just got out of the airport, and we started walking towards Uzbek. border, basically trying to get cabs and so forth. And the same situation, all of us. Some have returned, because life is so much deeper and more colorful than any of our understanding of life.

You know, there are different situations for everyone. Some parents got sick. Somebody died in Russia. Some people just couldn't handle it. It's too difficult to be away from families from Russia. Imagine you're living in Russia for like 45 years. You don't get how you like Russia. You like your job. You like, you know, you have friends. And all of a sudden, you have to live in 48 hours. Some people found it way too difficult.

Some people couldn't find jobs and incomes. But I estimate 10%, 10 to perhaps 15 by most, went back to Russia. Most of us who have stayed, we don't even think of going back. There's no way. No way. Ever. I can't say never, okay? Yeah, never's a long time, man. At this point, I don't want to ever go back to Russia for one simple reason.

Many times I'm asked this question, you know, online by foreigners and by Russians. Well, what if the war ended tomorrow and things would go back to normal? Economy, okay, you know, would you go back? My answer is no because even if everything is back to normal the war is over all of that how can I live alongside people who supported the war

who went to kill Ukrainians who were supporting Vladimir Putin who were doing this propaganda things and the majority of Russians are pro-war 80% or so I can't imagine going back and living among them. Neighbors, colleagues, you know, everyone, people you see on the streets, people you deal with at stores. Teachers, Michael is going to school now, right? His teachers,

I know that they supported the war and they would be teaching my son. Thank you, but no thank you. Even if you get paid in roubles, you can afford to take advantage of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. If you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code. Go ahead and email me, Jordan atjaburger.com. I am more than happy to surface that code for you. Yes, it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of

my conversation with Konstantin Samoyov. It seems like Russia is trying to run both a marathon and a sprint at the same time, right? You've got sanctions on, and I think you covered this in a video, airline parts and specialty items from abroad, but also the pilots are getting hired by China. So you have the brain drain, but you also have the inability to replace things and the inability to innovate domestically enough to make, you can't just start making Boeing parts for your fleet of airplanes. It's not really going to happen. And even if you could, where the engineers to build it, where are the pilots to fly those planes. That's just really not going to happen. Rush is really burning the candle at both ends with this conflict, plus the sanctions, plus the brain drain.

You also have quite an interesting perspective on the Russian military industrial complex. And I looked up a little bit about this because I was curious, this is the economist and you probably popping out. But if you're pumping tons of money, billions of dollars into the military industrial complex, and you're paying defense contractors and the interest rate is 16% because you've got currency issues. If I'm running a company there that makes furniture, I can't hire anyone. I can't get money to hire people and then say, I'm going to pay you as much as you're going to make it, this defense contractor, because the interest rate is 16% and the government is subsidizing those

contractors. So anybody who does pretty much anything technical is going to go work for a missile and artillery company or a tank manufacturer, not for literally any other sector of the economy. As those military-industrial complex salaries flood in, inflation's going to go up. And now your country's only producing artillery, tanks, drones, I don't know, whatever. So those missiles, they go blow up in Ukraine. They don't build a school in St. Petersburg and educate a bunch of kids. You're just building something that blows up, and then you've got to make another one. And that, to have most of your economic activity in that sector is not good.

You are right on everything. That's exactly what I say in my videos. This is my analysis. Do you know how much a rocket, one missile that is flown and blown up in Ukraine costs? No idea. Same amount as to build one school. Imagine, one school. So it is shooting a school into Ukraine and having it blow up in an apartment building.

Every single missile costs as much, $19 million, as much as to build a school. Jeez. Yes. Wow. And you're right. They are producing things that are either blown up or blow up and kill people. and it does not do any good to the economy. It sucks in the labor force.

And you are so right about it's called non-military's economic sector. It just vacuums people from there. Just to give you an example, a metal worker who knows how to work metal starts at 300,000 rubles at a war factory. That's $3,200 per month. An accountant at a plant starts at 52,000 rubles, which is roughly 600 bucks. See the difference? Yeah.

Yeah. Everyone who can work, who is still inside Russia, they take to work at the military-industrial complex enterprises. And, you know, a lot of people have left. Three million people, mostly men, able men with hands and heads and education and experience, have left. And that's a tremendous pressure on the labor force and to the economy in general is under perfect storm right now. And even if the war is over, the perfect storm is to stay. That's what a lot of Russians don't understand. Russia has been destroyed, period.

And it's not going to get better instantly after the war is over. The companies are not going to come back. The investors are not going to come back, you know. Russia's not going to get opened up from the inside of. from the outside. So believe it or not, many Russians think that, oh, just wait until it's over. That's going to be fine again. Yeah, right. I don't know, man. You're never going to, well, I should say not you, Russia's never going to recover from the demographic crisis. I did an episode about this 859 with Bradley Sherman, and he talks about just the math. If enough men

are gone and or have died, Russia is just never going to actually recover from this. It's not really possible. I've thought about it a lot, and I absolutely, you're right, I absolutely agree. And funny how Russians react. They don't think about it. No. I have thought, I've talked to so many Russians inside Russia, and once I start asking them questions, what do you think of what's going on in Ukraine? About the economy? What do you think? Have the prices? Do you think they're going to go up? They shut me off. I don't want to talk about that. Why? It's too painful. I don't watch the news. What do you think of this guy getting fired? No, no, I don't know. I don't watch the news. Let me tell you. No, no, no, no, please don't, because I don't want to know. I'm going to go crazy

if I learn these things. They have built informational bubbles for themselves and they live inside those bubbles and they don't want to know what's really going on the country. But let me tell you, they are in for a rude awakening one day. And that day is they're on the corner. Tell me why we had to do this interview in a hurry. You know, I was thinking like, okay, maybe we'll do something in September after my summer vacation that my wife is essentially making me take. And you told me that Tashkent, despite you not being in Russia anymore, Russia's coming to you, so to speak. They're bringing the party to you. Well, every time I talk about it, I smile.

But I guess it's a very nervous reaction to this topic. Because if I didn't, if I wasn't smiling, I'd be crying. Right, exactly. That's very Russian of you, by the way. Yeah. I feel like there's a proverb in there somewhere. Yeah. When I fled, when I run away, escaped, whatever.

I felt fairly safe for some time. And then I started creating this community of Russians, Russian escapees. And at first there were a few people, but then it's just the numbers exploded because everyone wanted to be a part of a community, a support group. Everyone wanted to see people in the same situation, right? And my YouTube channel started growing big time. And about nine months ago, I was talking to a fellow, well, in the know of how inside Russia works, right? And the KGB and the politicians and all of that. And he told me an interesting thing. He said, look, when the war started, the Russian state didn't care about what was being

said about it on the outside. All they cared was on the inside. What Russians were saying, that rather keeps Russians silent. That's why they were putting focus of their attention. The KGB, the prosecutor general's office, and all the Silaviki, they were focusing on the inside Russia, on Russians. But now the focus has shifted. Now RT, Russia today, is very active all over the world,

in different languages in Arabic, in English, in French, in Spanish. And they are trying to paint a certain picture of Russia. Because now their ideologies, they're trying to pretend that Russia is the pillar of light, you know, the beacon of hope for everyone who is for traditional values, okay, for Christianity and so forth. They're trying to put a very positive facade on Russia. and they do it through, you know, trying to reach to Western audience to regular people. And here you are telling the same audience, who believes you, different things. You telling the truth about Russia, how things are.

And not only you're telling, you're giving examples, you're showing videos, you know, you talk to people and so forth. And that just does not go well with Russia today for propaganda, who's, broadcasting in English. So buddy, he said, don't kid yourself, you're on the radar now. Things really started happening a couple months ago when Alexei Navalny was murdered and, you know, we went for breakfast.

We get together every morning, Russian Eskip's at the Tuskent Breakfast Club. And we were at the breakfast discussed in mourning Alexei Navalny's death. You know, to us, he's hero. And we made a decision and said, let's go and honor Alexei Navalny by laying flowers to local monument to political oppressions, political victims. Just briefly for people who don't know, Alexa Navalny was a presidential candidate in Russia, ended up being exiled, went back to Russia, got arrested after being poisoned by the KGB.

He went to Germany for treatment, came back to Russia, got arrested, and ended up dying in prison, even though he was youngish and healthy, because the regime essentially killed him. And so this made sort of international news. A lot of people followed this, but of course there are some people who are wondering who he is. So I just wanted to sort of, it was a very visible Russian who wanted change inside Russia and was an enemy of Putin and is now dead. It was a huge shock and we were just grieving, you know. So we went to a local monument to victims of political oppressions. That's a monument like that in every Soviet city because Soviet Union was all about political oppression. So we saw local co-ops.

They didn't say anything. We laid flowers. We took pictures there. And all of a sudden, we saw operatives, Russian operatives. They started following us. At first, we didn't understand. But then it became obvious because we changed direction. They would change direction.

They were following us. I came to one and I said, look, you're not part of a group. Why? He's like, well, if you don't mind, I'm just walking along with you. And then they started taking pictures of us. And they started taking pictures of our cab license plates with two cabs, you know. And it was very scary. It was probably the scariest moment of my life.

Knowing that I am on the radar is one thing. But when you see actually an agent in real life, that's different ballgame altogether, you know. How did you know they were KGB other than the – was it just that they were doing a clunky job following you around? They didn't even hide themselves. They were trying to intimidate us. They were taking pictures. Yeah. They were there.

They started following us when we went, not just in Tashkent. All over the world, they did that. In Russia, they did that. At Navalny Funeral, they filmed everyone. 30 plus thousand people showed up, and they started arresting people a couple weeks after who showed up. So it wasn't just unique to Tashkent. It just happened us at the Tashkian Breakfast Club to be there.

Okay. And obviously it was them. did not look Asian because Uzbek looked different from that. They spoke with Russian accent, Moscow accent that's noticeable. You know, I can tell someone from Moscow. That was them. They took pictures of us for goodness sake. Someone in your group tipped them off, right? They weren't just standing around by that statue that day. They could have. They could have been. They could have been because it was a big deal all over. You know, someone could have tipped us off as well. That I don't know, but it doesn't matter. You call it KGB, but it's not called that anymore, right? It's FSB.

Yes, it's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing. I don't want people to think we don't know what we're talking about because we're using the wrong. The name changed, but KGB sounds more dear to me. It's easier to say. Yeah, I agree. But then after that surveillance, I noticed once more, one of those people, not too far from my place, my home, freaked out. Let me tell you.

It's a feeling when it's just this primal fear, just you can't breathe because you don't know what's going to happen to you. We have very odd people showing up at the breakfast club because our group is open for everyone. You know, we're just a bunch of Russians who left of women, men, you know, with families with children coming in. It's open to everyone who wants to join. The only requirements is we don't make money of people inside who are just free, absolutely. And only those who support peace are allowed. If you support war, don't even come close. and people usually who are members of Breakfast Club, they have relocated here.

We started getting people, they say, we're just traveling, we're tourists, we're passing by. They show up and they start asking us questions. Oh, where do you live? Where do your kids go to school? Why do you need to know? You're just passing by. It's, you know, interesting. Some are more skilled.

Some are less skilled, you know. Yeah, this is very clunky. It's like they either don't care or they're very unskilled at what they're doing. Some are very, very, like, they become your friends. They come in and a few days, they show up every day. And some are good. Then there's a guy, he comes to me and he says, look, I have this great business opportunity.

Back in Russia, I know people at the Ministry of Defense and there's big contracts. I know that you're a good guy. You know, I'm following you. And I'm offering this great opportunity. Let's go in business together. What do I have to do? Well, not much. You know, just accept the offer.

perhaps you'd need to go to Russia for to sign the documents or something like that. It's not a big deal, you know. I'll sign them electronically, thank you, very. Thank you, you, know. And then there's a girl comes in, and she takes advances in me. It's like, I would like to, you know, go have, like, a coffee with you and be, like, just me and you. Like, wait a second, I'm a married man. If you want to have something to ask me about Tajkiant or about, you know, anything,

just ask here. Well, I'd rather do it in private. And then she starts flirting with me. She starts sending me messages in telegram, okay? I'm a married man. I have five kids. I just showed it to my wife and say, hey, honey, look, this is what's going on. So I say no to the girl, okay?

And then there are telephone calls once in a while, couple threads, a couple people trying to get close. Or we would like to meet with you, discuss something. And then, you know, Jordan, I can't say that they show their identification and say we're KGB, but you have sometimes this gut feeling that things are not right. Well, yeah.

Not well. Yeah. Okay. Last few months has been, how to say that, not boring. Yeah. Why are they doing this? Do you think they're trying to trap you into going back to Russia,

get compromise on you so they can blackmail you? Is that the idea? The guy about business, either getting compromise or trying to get me to Russia. The goal definitely was trying to get compromise, to put me in a position of who is she or they could exploit it later. But I think I'm not important enough for them to kill me because obviously it takes a lot of resources

and a lot of decisions, hard decisions, okay? A lot of planning and so forth. But I am big enough, so they're trying to neutralize me. one way or another, okay? And the thing is, I'm getting bigger and I'm growing. Look, you know, I'm at your channel, you know, I'm reaching out so many more people and telling the truth about Russia. My channel is growing. And I think that I'm becoming a bigger and bigger danger to them. And I'm sure that I'm absolutely positive. I am a regular guest on a YouTube channel called Silicon Curtain and another fellow there, American Admiral Ben Hodges.

Oh, I know him. I think his name. Yeah. So he's also a regular guest. And we're two most popular speakers there. Basically, we are watched the most. And I was talking to the host of the Silicon Curtain. One day we were doing an interview.

He did an interview with Ben Hodges. And a couple of days later, biggest Russian propaganda outlet, lenta. dot RU, well, one of the biggest, cited Ben Hodges, Silicon Curtain interview. And my interview was right next to his. Right, so they're watching. They saw me 100%. They cited him because he's a former general. He's like a world-known person, okay?

And then they misused his words saying that's something that he didn't say. But that's not the point. The point was that they know, I'm on their radar for sure, and I'm growing a bigger and bigger target. What's your plan? I mean, you don't have to give the details because it's a plan to get away from the FSB agents that are maybe trying to hurt you and your family, but like, are you trying to get back to the United States? It's a lot harder for them to pull that stuff. It happens in the U.S., but it's harder because the FBI actually cares. I'm not sure how it is in Uzbekistan and former Soviet states. Let's put it this way. If they wanted to get me in Uzbekistan, if I was

important enough for them, they would definitely get me in a matter of days. Okay. They just need an order in Moscow, and they need resources allocated. That's it. I definitely am not feeling safe here whatsoever, and the more time goes, the less safer I feel. I'm afraid for myself, for my family. If I could make it to the USA, and that's not easy. Because right now, it's nearly impossible to get to the USA if you're Russian in a legal way. Illegally?

Oh, yeah, no problem. You fly to Mexico, you know, and go over the border. But I am not doing it illegally. I was going to say, yeah, we'll pick you up in Nuevo Laredo or whatever. Right. So I tried a humanitarian expediting and I was shut down by the U.S. government. I don't know. I gave all the evidence, but I tell you, I don't know what to do.

Maybe other countries, but you see, I consider you to say my second home. Unfortunately, I cannot get to that home. even with my kids being born in the USA and the U.S. citizens, not naturalized or anything, you know, it's really difficult to get there. So you caught me in a very interesting situation. I don't know what to do. Well, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know. You don't have to let me know right now. Obviously, you know, maybe we keep a little bit of secrecy. We're not going to broadcast it on the show. But you let me know.

Thank you. And I will do what I can. I'm curious before you go, what do you make of the terror attack in Moscow recently? Can we talk about a little bit what that was? People might not even know about it. Sure, sure. You mean Crocus City Hall, right? The big arena, right, that got attacked by ISIS?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's what it was called. I lived not too far from that place. I visited quite a few times. I visited a couple concerts where the shooting actually took place. My daughter, one of my daughters, danced professionally. She was in a couple of competitions there, so I know plays quite well. I'm amazed because at every single event, the amount of security was absolutely insane.

There was a police station right inside this big building, and it's a large police station. It was created just to keep that place secure. It had quite a few policemen save for guns, a cell for people to lock up and all that. And when the shooting started, it would take. take policemen minute and a half to run to the site of shooting or if they walked casually

it would take them three minutes because the police station was right around the corner. There are a couple police officers were inside but they were running away with everyone else. It was K-9 unit. Moreover, this K-HQ of Rosguardia, which is

riot police, like a couple miles from that place. So if that riot police unit got up and walked, it would take them 25 minutes of casually walking. It took them one hour. Oh, wow. By buses, okay? Very odd. I believe that it was ISIS, but something is very, very fishy. It almost seemed like the law enforcement knew, and they didn't do anything. It wasn't them, but they knew, and they didn't, let's put it this way, they ran the other way instead of protecting

Russian people. But that's how Putin's Russia work. But the goal of police not to protect people. The goal of police is to make sure that no one protesting on the streets. If you are to protest in Moscow, that shut you down under a minute. But if someone is killing innocent people, it takes them one hour to make it to the scene. Yeah, that's what doesn't make sense to me. I wonder, because the Americans warned them, and then they said, oh, this is just some provocation. You're trying to make us look bad. It happened anyway. So they at least had a clue and they should been on higher alert, even if they didn't believe in it. So the FSB definitely shot the bed on that. But I wonder, is it maybe that there's too many resources focused on protecting the regime

and not enough resources on intelligence and anti-terror? Because it's not like you have these police units, what is it called, like, O'M or whatever it looks like on their jacket, right? It's Rosguardia. It's riot police. That's what I call. Yeah. Okay. So you got those guys. They do great when they try to kill random defectors or not those guys, but when they're they're killing defectors abroad, the FSB is on it. When they're killing protesters and arresting kids who are holding up a Ukrainian flag, they are on it, man. They have, it's a clockwork. ISIS shows up at an arena and starts blasting. And like you said, they take an hour to show up and they're basically putting out fires and collapsed walls and ceilings and mopping up blood

at that point. I mean, it's just like, where the hell were you guys? So is it, they're just focused on protecting the regime? Or like you said, I mean, it's not a false flag. ISIS released footage of them doing it. But it just, it's bizarre how long it took. It seems like that would be bad. It would make Putin look bad. It makes him look weak if he can't protect his people. So I almost feel like it's just incompetence, but how did they get to that point? Plain and simple. It's not their job to protect people. Protecting people is putting themselves on the line, putting their life in danger. People aren't paying them. Putin is paying them. The regime is paying them. So they're loyal to the regime and they take orders from the regime. Like you said, if there's a protest in

Moscow, any other city, if you take a piece of paper completely white and put it in front of you, they arrest you from somewhere around under a minute. But then when the terrorists kill and people takes them an hour, because it's their job to take care of the protesters. It's not their job to keep people safe, people on their own. That's what I think. That's what the problem is in Russia. Man, this is, we could go on for a while. You have so much interesting content on your channel, which we'll link to in the show notes. Thank you. I hope you stay safe, man. Like I said, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know privately. And I want to thank you for coming on the show and telling your story, because it's kind of not that safe for you. You're in this weird

bind, right? Like, you need to tell your story because that's the mission of the channel. But every time you do it, you're kind of digging the hole that you're in, you're just taking another shovel full of dirt out while you're standing in it. Jordan, I'm telling you, I'm not stopping. I keep on talking because I was silent for 15 years. I was looking at my country going down to hell, and I wasn't doing anything about it. So even if I put myself in danger now, I keep on doing it. So there's no way they're going to shut me up. Even if I put myself in danger now, I keep on doing it. So there's no way they're going to shut me up. Even if I put myself into more danger,

I think that's more important right now to tell the truth of what's really happening in Russia. If not me, then who? Constantine, thanks so much, man. Really appreciate this. Thank you very much. It's an honor to be here. Thank you.

You know, I've got some thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, here's what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger show. A lot of people hear the name PussyRite, and they think, all right, what is this? You're just trying to get shock value. Can you tell us the beginning a little bit of what Pussy Riot is?

When I was reading in the book and you said you just made it up for a lecture, I was like, there's got to be more to it than that. No, seriously. Not really. Oh, seriously. They decided to punish us. They opened a criminal case and in two weeks after the performance, we were arrested. We knew how to hide from the cops and for a week.

Dozens of cops were looking for us. And when they caught us, finally, they were so happy. Making them look like fools. It's our profession. How does it feel to have these world leaders who are in these private chambers with their tea and their bodyguards? And you're sitting in a Russian prison and they're like, these 22-year-old women, they're screwing my world up, man. Got to do something about this. Look at how bad they are.

I was really happy that Putin is in trouble because of us. Because they definitely didn't expect anything like that. My mother thinks that I need to immigrate, run immediately. Yeah, you still live in Russia. I can't even believe. Yeah. You wrote, The Future has never seemed

so full of enriched and wonderful possibilities as when I was in a labor camp and literally had nothing but dreams. What gives you the strength to go forward when you're worried about

are they going to try to blind me? Are they going to try to beat me up? I mean, they were highly abusive to you while you were behind bars. I just prefer not to think about it. For more from Pussy Riot and world-renowned artist

Nadia Tolokonikova and her time in Russian prison and of course their crusade against Vladimir Putin's regime, check out episode 118 on the Jordan Harbinger show. One thing I found really funny, I don't think all this made it to the show, but there are a lot of knockoff places in Russia. So there's a McDonald's knockoff, there's an IKEA knockoff.

The gross slash funny thing about the McDonald's knockoff is it's called Tasty Period. Like Tasty, period, but, you know, Tasty Period. It's just got one of the most unfortunate names I think I've ever heard. I'm guessing it just doesn't translate well, but yikes. That's got to only be a play on words in English, right? In Russian, it's probably more like tasty, full stop. I hope you all enjoy that. I think he's a great storyteller with an interesting path.

All things Constantine will be in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Don't forget about six-minute networking as well. That's over at six-minute networking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

This show is created an association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in a little bit of a look inside Russia and perhaps a different Russian perspective, definitely share this episode with him. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

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