The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1045: Helping Pal Who Paid Cost for Offing His Boss | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

We all joke about offing the boss. Your friend actually did. He'll soon leave prison, but you're unsure how to receive him. Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: We've all fantasized about offing the boss, but your friend actually did it. Now he's done his time in prison and is returning home. How do you help him rejoin society without ignoring the gravity of his crime? You opened a bakery with your partner, but the building owner across the street turned your parking spaces into a dumpster area, including rotting fish from a sushi restaurant. Your attempts to resolve the issue have been unsuccessful. How can you save your business from this smelly situation? Your sister-in-law is neglecting her nine-year-old daughter, keeping her out of school and leaving her alone all day. The child's father is unreliable, and you're unsure about intervening. How can you protect your niece without causing more chaos? Your wife suddenly claimed to be a lesbian, cheated on you, and left the family. After two years apart, you've reconciled, but things aren't going well. She's depressed, anxious, and isolating herself. Can this marriage be saved, or is it time to move on? Recommendation of the Week: iPhone users should consider changing default camera settings for optimal high-res photos. Here's how — with more tips here!  As a Jewish public servant, you've faced increasing antisemitism and violence at work, even requiring hospital visits. Your progressive values are being challenged by the harsh realities of your job. How can you reconcile your ideals with your experiences? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1045 If you love listening to this show as much as we love making it, would you please See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, The Man Dig and Doozied Ditches with those forehead stitches, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from former cult members, arms dealers, astronauts, CEOs, and rocket scientists. This week on the show, had my friend Andrew Gold on the psychology of secrets. We recorded it live at the London podcast

shows, kind of this weird situation where tons of people were walking by as like an open studio kind of thing, which is a weird format to have a conversation about secrets, but it kind of worked. A lot of you liked that episode. Also, we had Dan Harris, my friend Dan Harris from ABC News, such an interesting guy. I don't want to spoil it, but he used to report out of war zones and he had a little bit of a drug thing because of the adrenaline stuff going on. And then he had like a nervous breakdown, panic attack on live TV. I mean, he's an amazing, amazing guy. I think you'll really enjoy that conversation with him.

He's very candid about all this. I'm not embarrassing him in ways that he hasn't already embarrassed himself. And so I hope you go back and check out those episodes if you haven't done so yet. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and mercilessly roast Gabe for doing things like ending up at urgent care on a school night. What happened? What are you doing doing over there? I'm all right.

I'm doing much better now, but it was a rough week last week. Yeah, what happened? I know you posted the story on Instagram, and it was kind of hilarious, but for people who don't know, which is the vast majority of people listening right now. Yeah, so I was actually part of a film festival. My short was in this film festival in the Valley last week, and we had a great screening on Monday night. It was actually the first time I had seen the short in a proper movie theater, and it was, it was an amazing night. And then a few nights later, I was supposed to go back to go see a friend's movie that was playing another night, and I was rushing to leave the

house. And I was, I quickly showered and was like, trying to hurry, because, you know, in L.A. It takes, like, an hour to get anywhere. And I got out of the shower, and I just, I hit my head so hard against the towel rack. It like made the most sickening crack sound. And I was like, oh, shoot. I don't know what I just did. And then I looked in the mirror and my forehead was just bleeding. And I was like, low-key panicking.

I thought I ruined my face. And I was like, I definitely need stitches. So I went to urgent care and I had to get stitches. But I'm doing a lot better now. They're out now. And as you can probably see, it seems to be healing pretty well. Yeah, you got a little Mikhail Gorbachev thing going out there. Thank you.

That's what my brother-in-law said, That's so funny. You send me a photo of Gorbachev in the group chat. But, you know, the worst part about it actually was the concussion. I had a concussion. I've never had one before. For two, kind of three days, I was in the weirdest headspace. And I was like, this is what a concussion feels like.

It's like I could function and I could kind of work, but the screen made me feel weird. And I could not remember anybody's name at the event that I went to. That's scary. It was so bizarre. Yeah. It was a little bit scary. But it goes away and I'm okay now. But yeah, thank you for asking.

Yeah, dude, geez. So you just got back from Georgia. Yeah, not the Peach State. Not Hartfield Jackson. The country that gets invaded by Russia every decade or so. Yeah, I did. And I feel like I have so much to share about this in future episodes. But Georgia is super interesting, man.

So I flew from SFO to Qatar, overnight in Qatar, then to DeBlisi, Georgia, which is the capital. And I did a Soviet tour, which is probably something for another day. What a Jordan move. Yeah, very much like, all right, first stop. Stalin Museum. And by museum, it's a house that has a well. And at the bottom of the well, they dug a secret room and they put a printing press in there from Germany to print communist propaganda that Stalin would like give out to people. And dot, dot, dot, he became like the biggest mass murder in human history, even though he was a poet and like kind of like a young,

good-looking dude, actually, which is weird. You see all these young photos of him and you're like, oh, that guy turned into the worst dictator humanity's ever seen. Interesting. He looks like a hipster who makes flat whites in somewhere in Brooklyn. The weird number of dictators are smoke shows when they're young. It might make you wonder if that's part of their charisma when they're like 24 years old in spouting communist propaganda. Fidel Castro looks like a contestant on Love Island or something. Yeah, it's really something.

We go to Georgia. I went there for a wedding and it was just really interesting. Everything there. The food is really good. The language is crazy. It looks like something you'd see in like, it looks like a language. that doesn't exist anymore, except it's alive and well, of course, in Georgia. And it's some sort of, like, ancient language that's thousands of years old. And I don't drink wine at all. And I was like,

I'm going to wine country. This is going to be awful. And it was really good. They make these light summer wines that are just not disgusting. Like, you get these wines and bottles here, and you can almost just taste the preservatives or the tannins or whatever. And over there, it's almost just like juice with a little bit of booze in it. And they make it in a totally different way, from what I understand, and they put them in these giant clay pots that are in the ground, and they let it ferment there. I don't know how normal wine is made, no that I think about it, but it's apparently different in Georgia. Even just driving there, all the cars are basically falling apart because they take the cars from other parts of Eastern Europe, or sorry, regular Europe and Eastern Europe. And if it gets totaled and you like need a new BMW because the front end of yours fell off when you hit a wall in Dusseldorf, they sent it to Georgia.

And theoretically, you're like, this car is going to get scrapped. No, what's going to happen is someone fix it. the engine and the front axle, ties the rest of it together with rope, and now there's a taxi that's that BMW and still has, like, the old German plates screwed into the back, and a Georgian plate screwed on over it, and that's the car.

And you're like, there were cars where you could see through the front end into the car, and you could see the driver through the front end of the car, not the windshield, through the front end of the car, because there was just no grill,

there were parts missing, and you're just like, there's the engine, and there's the passenger's legs. I could just see it clear as day, and there's, like, rope tying the whole thing together. If certain feedback Friday stories were a car.

Yes. It would be that car. And of course, not only is that car driving down the road, it's driving down the road at 80 miles an hour trying to overtake two trucks on a turn in the mountains. And you're just like, okay. So Eastern European. The only place I've seen worst driving was Egypt. And that's saying something.

And I remember asking my driver, I was like, are there a lot of car accidents here? And he's like, oh, yeah. Like not even like, well, you know, he was, oh, yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, you see dead people all the time. And nobody thinks I should slow down and try and maybe not pass what I can't see. Maybe not get a car that you can see through the engine. Yes, exactly. There was a lot of that.

I got to stop at some point. But they make these snacks out of grapes and dregs from the wine and they put walnuts in it and they dry it out. And they just hang them on the side of the road and you can stop and get it for like, you know, 10 cents or whatever. And they call it Georgian Snickers and it's actually super delicious. And I will say the people that I met from Georgia, from Belarus, I mean, they're so nice. They're very kind. It just makes you really thankful for everything you have here in the United States because I remember looking up how much they make in a year and it's like $4,600.

Oh, wow. And you just think like, oh, my God, how do you all survive? But in their life expectancy is like 57 years for men. Wow. It's absolutely bananas. There's a lot more that I'm going to say, I think, next time, I mean, the wedding was amazing. I bet these amazing East Germans there are former East Germans, obviously.

But we were with a lot of women from Belarus because the bride was from Belarus. and they were playing Russian music. And the Georgian guys came out and they were like, we were really cool with them at the hotel, right? And they came out and they were like, hey, today, no Russian music. And apparently it was the 16 year anniversary of one of the invasions. And they were like,

today, absolutely no Russian music anywhere, please. Oh, wow. We were like, okay, so it became like 80s night. A lot of Kulia, a lot of sing, a lot of Backstreet Boys. We had to turn off the old Ukrainian and Russian pop, especially the old stuff. They were just like, hey, they're like nothing personal, but not today, folks, not today. Yeah, that's quite a moment. Yeah. But I will say this, I've never been to Belarus or anything like that, but I can assume that it's full of people from Belarus and they were really, really, really nice and really, really cool. And, you know, it could just be the selection of people that was there. But I would say, if you're a dude who's traveling, I wouldn't go there now. I think it's probably too sketch. But as soon as that crazy dictator falls, That's going to be a cool place to visit. Any intel on how they feel about that guy?

Yeah. So there was a couple disturbing stories where we were chatting a lot and discussing things. And I'd use Google Translate because most of them really only spoke Russian. And I don't speak. My Russian is like, beyond basic. They were like, come to Minsk. It'll be fun. We'll all meet up there.

And I was like, it's too dangerous right now. And they're like, no, no, it's fine, not knowing that they'll just kidnap an American and hold him for ransom or ship you off to Moscow, Russia to be held and traded for, you know, some spy that actually killed someone. And it was, I was like, no, but as soon as your crazy dictator is done, and I put that in our little group chat, and they were like, oh, oh, God, how do you delete this? Is it deleted, deleted, or is it still on the server? And I was like, oh, God. They explained to me that when they go, like most of them had never left the country, but one of the women there was my age. Bride's mom was my age as sort of makes me feel weird, because her daughter married my brother,

who's 42 years old. But whatever, he's the same age as her mom. So she was talking about how they can't go back because what happens is they will either say, oh, you have a foreign education. You can't leave. Like, you got to work at the tractor factory because we need somebody who knows, you know, mechanical engineering or whatever. Or, and or they will just look through your phone, all your texts, your emails, your photographs, everything, and they'll interrogate you. And if they're not satisfied with what they see, you're in trouble. And that's not just foreigners, too. Like, even the girls, like, they were worried that I had put, you know, I'll love to come check the place out as soon crazy dictators gone. Like they were like, oh, crap, you know, this is like, most of them didn't think about it,

but then one of the guys was like, hey, you better delete that. And they were like, oh, no. And everybody got nervous. And I was like, one, I felt like a bonehead, obviously. But two, it's just like talk about stuff we don't have to worry about in the United States. You know, I can say like, ah, Trump, this, Joe Biden, that, Kamala Harris, this. Like, I don't, I'm not going to go to Canada and then come back and then get arrested because that's on my phone. Right. And they have to worry about that. That's the least of their concerns. Right. That's so sad. Man, what a gift, huh? Yeah. It's one of the only countries that still actually has KGB, and it's still called KGB. Oh, wow. I don't know that. Yeah. No, they just didn't change it. It's just still that. Just sticking with the old acronyms in

Belarus? Well, it's the government didn't change. Like, it's still a quote unquote communist authoritarian country. It's just even Russia changed. And Belarus was just like, nah, we're good. Like, it's not a Soviet centrally planned model, I'm sure, but the power structure is the same. same. Right. So they still have KGB. They still control the people. They still control the internet. They still control what people say, think, do. I mean, it's just nuts. Isn't this the country that diverted the plane and killed the journalist or whatever? Yeah. So for those who don't know, this is the country where there was a dissident. And I want to say he was flying from like Poland to Lithuania and it flew over Belarusian airspace. And they scrambled fighters and said,

we have intelligence that there's a bomb on board. You have to land at Minsk Airport. There's a dissident on board, they land the plane, they pull the guy off, they throw him in prison, and then they go, oh, look, there's no bomb. So now no planes fly over Belarusian airspace, international plane, because it's, they can't be trusted. Yeah, maybe let's not go to Minsk. Yeah, I know. No. Too dangerous for many reasons. All right. As always, fun ones and doozies. Let's dive in. What is the first thing we got on the mailbag here? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. Several years ago, a good friend of mine shot and killed his supervisor at work. Whoa. Okay, so this guy shot and killed his boss.

What did this guy do? Forget to make a fresh batch of coffee in the kitchenette or something? I mean, like, what gets you to that point? The very short version of the story is that the supervisor was doing all kinds of mind-fickery and my friend basically lost his mind,

got a gun, and when the moment came to either shoot himself or the other guy, he shot the other guy. What? I know. I'm just reading the letter. The boss was doing all kinds of mind-fickery? I don't know what that means, exactly.

So he's like mentally torturing the guy? messing with him somehow? I'm not exactly sure. Huh. Okay. And then his friend lost his mind, got a gun, went back into the office. Presumably, but that means he went back into the office to possibly commit suicide in front of this boss. Yeah, which is like also quite a statement. And then he was like, nah, you're the one who's going to pay? Jesus, this is so intense. Yeah, so dark, man, really dark. I feel like there are easier ways to deal with a bad boss. I don't know. I mean, call me crazy, but you could talk to him about the situation or, you know, quit. Maybe go to HR, unarmed, by the way.

File a little complaint. Yes. Sign up for Indeed.com. How about that? Look elsewhere. Seems easier. Yeah, ziprecruiter.com slash Jordan. Way easier, less messy and help support the show. Also, if someone can provoke you into doing an almost murder suicide, you might have been in a pretty delicate place already. So I'm guessing this guy was a little troubled in the first place, right? Well, this is where the letter gets interesting. So our friend here goes on, it was a huge shock. My friend has never been violent and was a well-loved, of the community, and it's not a community where stuff like this happens.

Okay. This makes no sense. No sense. So no history of violence. Then he snaps and shoots this guy. He's the deacon at his church or whatever in a peaceful town. Then he almost commits suicide in his office. These things happen, but either our friend here doesn't know what this guy might have been going through, or this boss really was some kind of monster who just caused a normal person to snap. But I can't. I don't know how to wrap my head around that. It's so hard for me to imagine, but I guess it's possible. My friend has been in prison for many years now. He's stayed out of trouble and has done a lot to help other inmates.

He spends more than 40 hours a week volunteering, organizing and maintaining the prison library, helping inmates find books of interest, and participating in peer counseling programs. Prison life is horrible, but my friend never complains and uses his time there for good and to help others. Wow. Well, good on him.

He sounds like a thoughtful, generous guy made a lot of meaning out of his time in prison. I commend him for that. Through the years, we've stayed in touch with letters and occasional visits. Recently, in his letters, he's made brief mentions of the man he killed. I see this as a good thing, part of his recovery process, and I'm glad he's bringing it up since it's always the elephant in the room. My friend is filled with remorse, takes full responsibility, and is hyper aware that he's done a terrible thing that cannot be undone, remedied, or even paid for. Well, good. It sounds like he's truly reaversive. abilitating, which is kind of nice. This is a great sign. My friend will be released from prison in a

few years and will come back to live in our community. He has a strong circle of people who have never forgotten that he's a good person, but there are others who will not be pleased to see him back. That's going to be a whole other heap of pain to work through. Oof, yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, just make sure there's a fresh pot of coffee for this guy when he gets out, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, that's a tough one. Therapy, of course, would be great, but that's not going to be an option until he's out. How can I help my friend move forward? Notice, I'm not saying move on because this is not something you can leave behind. But I'm hoping there's a way to learn to live with it, but not have it be a constant dark cloud. And what can I say in my letters that would be healing? Signed, looking to mend a

friend after a tragic end and help him contend with what's ahead. Man, what a story and what a tragedy. The stuff your friend must have been wrestling with back then. The impact this murder must have had on this supervisor's family. Whatever kind of person this boss was, I mean, he sounds difficult, but who knows what the deal was there? What journey your friend has been on since this event? What's waiting for him when he comes home? And this is all so intense. I'm very sorry that your friend did this awful thing and that things played out this way. At the same time, I'm quite moved by the way he's carried himself, the ways he's found of giving back, of being of service and prison, his honesty, his remorse. Your friend is an amazing case study in facing difficult facts,

mourning, putting in the work to pay the price and rehabilitate. He deserves a lot of credit for that. It's interesting. My first response to your letter is, I'm not sure how much more you have to do here. You want to help your friend move forward, not move on, but move forward. It sounds to me like that's exactly what he's doing in the way that he's talking about what he did, in the way that he's looking for ways to make his life one of purpose and of value, but I'm sure that this crime will weigh on him in some form for the rest of his life. And man, that is tough. If he wants to learn to live with that without it becoming a constant dark cloud, well, first of all, I think he's going to have to make peace with the fact that it might, in fact, be a dark cloud, especially from time to time.

That's something I imagine he needs to be prepared for in advance. And when it does, it would be helpful for him to accept that and just learn to bear it and know that the reality of what he did during a very compromised time in his life, that that doesn't need to define him entirely, that he won't always have the same relationship with it. Some days or weeks or months, it might be really hard. Some periods might be more peaceful. But more importantly, and we talk about this a lot, but this is especially crucial in the context of his story, if your friend wants to move forward and survive the pain of what he did, he needs to keep finding ways of making meaning out of it. He's already doing that beautifully by talking about what he did, by taking responsibility,

by sharing what it feels like to have done a terrible thing that can't be undone. Your friend has a couple huge things going for him. His ability to really sit with what he's done, to not suppress it or justify it or downplay it to be in full contact with reality. And also his eagerness to be of use to other people, to be valuable, to channel his remorse and his sadness and his regret and all of the complicated emotions he must be feeling into productive activities. And that, that is what I would keep doing if I were him when I got out of prison. Right, because he can't change the facts. He can't change other people's opinions of him,

good or bad, and he largely can't change what I imagine are very normal feelings about what he's done. But he can look around and go, okay, I've done a terrible thing. I've been through something extraordinary. It's left me with these beliefs about the world, these feelings about myself. What do I do with all of that? Right. Where do I put it? How can I make the best use of it? And there are so many options out there. You know, he could, I don't know, volunteer for a nonprofit that supports incarcerated people in exactly the journey he's been on. Or that helps people recently. release from prison, reintegrate into society, helps connect them with resources, apply for jobs. He could join a support group. He could lead a support group, maybe one for formerly incarcerated

people or for people wrestling with anger or with people who might commit violent crimes in the future. Imagine the impact his story would have on these folks. Maybe he could write a book about what he did. Dig into what led him to this crime, how he dealt with it since, what path it's put on. I mean, I'd read that book. There are so many ways for your friend to make meaning out of his life. And I think that's what's going to help him live with what he did. This isn't about finding a way to compartmentalize his crime, but continuing to weave this chapter of his life into his overall story and use it to continue being the best possible human being. Just as you said that, I remember this thing I haven't thought about in years. When I was in high school, did I ever tell you this,

I volunteered for a crisis hotline? No, no. Teen line. Yeah. So it's my first brush with feedback Friday type stuff. So from, I think, sophomore year to senior year of high school, I worked at this place called Teen Line. It was at a hospital near my house. And we went through, you know, months of training. And then we would basically just man this hotline and teenagers could call and talk to other teenagers under the supervision of therapists who were doing their hours after their master's programs. And we would get all kinds of calls. You know, some of them were sort of innocuous. And like, oh, you know, I have a crush on so-and-so at school. It's kind of stressing me out. But we would get suicide calls. We would get sexual assault calls. We would get calls about psychiatric issues.

I mean, it could get pretty intense. And I remember now that during our training, they brought in a speaker who was a former gang member. And this guy, if I recall correctly, had done some really awful things. He also had been shot and paralyzed. And this guy rolled into our training in a gold-rimmed wheelchair and told his story to us. And like, you could hear a pin drop in the room. Everybody was so riveted and moved by this guy's story. he must have been part of some kind of organization that sent people to schools and other programs

to tell these stories to help people, well, in our case, to help people who might call in, but also just to educate. And I remember thinking like, man, this guy has been through something so tragic and he can't do anything about it, but he's turning it into this beautiful mission. He's talking about what happened to him. So I think our friend's friend here might have a similar opportunity. I mean, it's really hard to do, but when you can't change the facts of your life, the only thing you can is tell your story and find ways of channeling it. He's doing that in prison now. He could do it also on the outside world in an even bigger way. But I just want to acknowledge that takes a hell of a lot of courage and so much vulnerability. Yeah. I do not envy the position these people are in, but

I think it makes them stronger in the end to be able to share this in a, I hate this word, but authentic way, instead of trying to hide it, right? Yeah. I mean, look, it's hard to go up in front of a group of people and say, hi, my name is so-and-so, and 20 years ago I murdered somebody. Or, you know, or to write an article or whatever going, I killed somebody for these reasons, this was my mental state back then, this is how I've grown since. Yeah, it's very intense.

He might find it harder in some ways to pursue that meaning outside of prison. In prison, he's among people who have also, by and large, done difficult things. And it sounds like he's learned how to operate pretty well there, even though it's really difficult.

In the outside world, he's going to face a lot of new challenges, the shock of the transition back into society, the opinions of people who don't support him, a system that can be pretty hostile to people who have committed violent crimes. So he's going to need to tap into a bravery and a resilience that I think he has within him, but that he might not have had to tap into before. And supporting him in opening himself up in those ways, that might be one of the best things you can do in your letters,

and of course when he gets out. But beyond that, I would just keep being a space of love and curiosity, empathy, non-judgment. I would invite your friend to bring whatever he wants to you and not hold it against him and just meet it with understanding and compassion, which you're clearly already doing. But, you know, that also means not being too eager to make him feel better about what he did or to minimize his crime or downplay his challenges after prison. There's something very healing in that too, you know, talking to somebody who isn't going, oh, don't worry, things aren't as bad as they seem. Like, what you did wasn't as bad as it feels. You're going to be fine when you come home or whatever. But to be in the company of somebody with both feet on the ground and enough respect for you to say,

yes, you are facing some very difficult feelings. I hear you. You're up against some big challenges now that you're going to be getting out of prison. And I'm here to listen. I'm here to support you. I know that you can meet those challenges with these amazing qualities that I see in you. Agreed, Gabe. That's true support and that's real empowerment. And I would also do some research on people and organizations he can get involved within your area when he gets out. Maybe even reach out to them on his behalf. If he's cool with that, of course, tell them his story. Start laying some groundwork for him so he has a running start when he gets out of prison. and, you know, it's not all on you.

He can also be doing this from inside prison. Maybe that's an idea you can run by him. I think that'd be a great way for him to make the transition easier and build up some confidence and some hope. If he is a handful of people to call when he gets out, if he has affordable housing set up, if he has a support group to attend,

a job, a project, a community he can tap into, just imagine how much richer his life is going to be when he's done doing his time. That would be very healing for him too, to see that his friend cares about him enough to help him chart a path for when he gets out. Your friend is very lucky to have you looking out for him.

I am so sorry about what he's done. It's just awful, but I'm very moved by the person he's become in the aftermath. He deserves a lot of credit for that. I hope he can continue being a source of meaning and joy and support for a lot of people. I think it could make a huge impact on the world. And hey, sending you a big hug, wishing your friend the best. You know what else is straight up, criminal? The deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all in one searchable and clickable place over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. All right. Back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up.

Dear Jordan and Gabe, six months ago, I opened a bakery with my partner in a quaint little town in British Columbia. We've been baking up a storm, serving the kind of bread that makes you want to slap your grandma in a loving way. Of course. Great tagline. I do hope that that is their tagline. It sounds like the Winnamp theme, doesn't it? It does. It really whips the llama's ass.

That soundbite just took me back to writing my eighth-grade English papers while listening to Blue Daboodie-Dabudai. Oh, I'm blue da-dabudie-dabudai. Yeah, oh my God. That is, tell me you're a millennial without telling me you're a millennial. Yeah. Oh, my God, that song. But hold on to your buns because our happy baking days may be numbered.

I feel like we're in an E-Sah. entertainment news segment or something. Yeah, the copy. But hold on to your buns, because our happy baking days might be numbered. We're going to cut to Mario Lopez down on the sidewalk, Mario, you handing out sandwiches, we're out here. That's exactly

what it sounded like. Yeah, exactly. The landowner genius who owns the building across from ours decided to turn our parking spaces next to the bakery into a dumpster depot. Not just one or two dumpsters, mind you. We're talking a whole parade of garbage bins. Meanwhile, there is ample room for

the dumpsters behind his property. Of course, this fragrant installation hasn't exactly been great for business, especially since one of his tenants that uses the dumpsters is a sushi place. Turns out, people aren't too keen on pairing their sourdough bread with rotting fish guts. So this is awful. I can't think of a worse combination than fresh-baked pumper-nickel and rotting salmon in the summer heat. Oh, sorry about that. Yikes. My partner and I started with a simple request to our landlord that the smelly dumpster be changed out just a new bin since there was at least one foot of rotting sludge in the bottom. Gross.

Then we called the city who were extremely helpful, but aside from ticketing for noxious odor, there's not much they can do because it's private property. This landowner said, get over it, dumpster stink, when my partner tried to speak to him about the issue and asked that they be relocated. So we took it to social media, public shaming, and asking that people reach out on our behalf. Our loyal customers have written several emails to this individual and his company, reaming him out for the dumpster placement and demanding that they'd be moved. Meanwhile, the owner of our property is absent and hasn't even seen the building. Just another number on a list of

many with no concern for the tenants. Now we're staring down the barrel of a forced relocation. We also started a GoFundMe to help with relocation costs, and we already have $1,500 in it, a lot for a small shop like ours. Did we do the right thing by publicly shaming this individual? Do we let it go and move without causing any more drama? Or do we dig our heels in and keep going with the very public shaming in hopes that this guy learns his lesson and doesn't do this to future tenants of that spot? Signed in a tizzy and trying to get busy because something's fishy about this iffy sitch, see? Man, this is so infuriating. Look, landlord-tenant disputes, neighbor disputes, they happen, I get it.

But flagrantly being a dick and messing with someone else's business when there's an easy solution, yeah, it's not cool. This other landlord is a real a-hole. So generally speaking, I wouldn't jump straight to publicly shaming someone because then they dig in their heels, their ego kicks in. But when you've exhausted all your other options, yeah, at that point, public shaming is a fair strategy. I really wish I knew more about local tenant and restaurant laws in Canada or whatever she is, so I could just make sure you tried them all, but it sounds like you did, and I'm not sure

what other option you had. And that said, public shaming doesn't always work, as you're finding out. This landlord is probably just betting on the fact that you and your customers are eventually going to give up. They can just keep doing what they want, dumping fish entrails or whatever in their dumpsters because they're 12 seconds closer than the back alley would be. And sadly, you know, he might be right. Honestly, though, Dark Jordan is going, is this a strategy? Are they trying to drive you guys out of business? Because it seems so egregious and unnecessary. Except how does that help them? Because they're not direct competitors and the sushi restaurant

doesn't own the land, right? Right. No, no, no. I don't mean the tenants are trying to drive them out of business. What I mean is I think maybe the landowner, is trying to drive the tenants out of the adjacent property and make it unrentable so that that corporate landlord is like, oh, I've had X percent month occupancy, it's time to move this property, let me sell it, I'm going to take a loss on it. And then that landlord is just like, oh, look, the property next to me is for sale. I'm going to bid on it and buy it and expand. Good point. Yeah. That would make sense. Possible. So I feel like this is a situation that calls for some Dark Jordan ideas. And the only one that I came up with off the top of my head was, you could

drill holes in the bottom of that dumpster. And then you can report him to the city for improper disposal or whatever, and he will get ticketed, he will get fined. It will likely remove the dumpster. The sanitation company will come and replace it. But Gabe and I were coming up a little bit dry after that. So we did something that we never did before, frankly, and I hope you don't mind, but we posted a brief version of your story, minus a bunch of the details on one of my favorite subreddits, which is unethical life pro tips. And some people chimed in with some very dark Reddit ideas. And some of them are crap. And by the way, just to be clear, I can't say I endorse these ideas. I'm definitely not advising you to do them or anything. These are not only unethical, but probably

also illegal. But, you know, sharing in the interest of exploring every possible idea, and while Dark Jordan rubs his little spittly praying mantis fingers together like Mr. Burns. You got those little Georgian Snickers fingers right there. That's right. That's right. So one person pointed out that the city ticketing the landlord is actually a more powerful weapon than you might think, and you can help that ticketing happen every time the dumpsters stink by calling them. And if they're going to do their job, getting a $500 or whatever ticket every day or a couple times a week, I mean, that's going to make it too painful for the landlord to continue. And if you ever decide to sue him, your lawyer could introduce that into the record.

Look how many tickets the city wrote this guy for what he did, which would really strengthen your case. A couple people pitched the idea of pushing the dumpsters into the sidewalk or even into the street, or tipping them over every week, and then calling the city about abandoned property. And I got to say, I kind of love that idea. Just make sure there aren't any witnesses or cameras pointing at the dumpsters, of course, although I think there's a strong chance. They're going to know it was you. Another truly diabolical idea that somebody pitched. Dump, and this is kind of my favorite, dump a bunch of bleach in the dumpsters and maybe some other chemicals, and then report an anonymous tip to the city that you saw someone dumping the

bottles with no lids. And now there are visible steam clouds. and weird smells coming out of it. Now, this Redditor said, you can sell it pretty well if you throw out extra old bottles you've saved up, so make it look like a mass dumper. Right? It's not just like, there's bleach and then there's another bottle of something else.

No, there's eight bottles of bleach and there's 16 bottles of sink cleaner or whatever. They think the dumpsters would then be considered a biohazard and removed. But their big caveat here was make sure that no people or animals are near these dumpsters because this could get dangerous. You don't know what mixing chemicals can do.

You don't want to create toxic gases that kill people or animals. And by the way, the person who pitched this, they said, and I quote, I may or may not have done something similar to get the dumpster swapped out for the Chinese restaurant next to me. To their credit, the company was being difficult

so a random raccoon caused some mischief. This person has actually seen this work. This is not like a strategy they got out of a comic book. Another pitch, use a dolly and move the dumpsters yourself if they're light enough. This person said that the garbage company figures it out after a while,

although I could see the landlord getting pissed and just moving them right back. But, you know, then let him do that. And then there were a couple super dark Jordan type ideas which again, once again, we are not advising you do any of this stuff and it could be dangerous and it's probably illegal, yada yada.

One, freeze the rotten fish goo into a sort of disc shape and slide it under the landlord's door at home if you can find out where he lives. Now, that would feel good for probably five minutes, but that's gonna make him really, really angry and would almost certainly lead back to you and would

probably be considered harassment or something. The other pitch was to scoop up the goo in a buck and coat his restaurant's front door with it. Now, as someone else pointed out, that would then punish every business in the area, including you, and there's no need, in my opinion, for collateral damage and screwing over innocent people. So, you know, maybe don't do that one. So my take is, I'd keep up the public shaming if you really need to stay in this location and you have a shot at getting this other landlord to do the right thing. But if they're determined to keep doing this and you've tried everything, then moving is absolutely a good option, although I know it's a

headache and you're letting this total piece of crap win, but you just can't put a price on having peaceful neighbors and not spending all your time running a freaking social media campaign and a go-fund me to deal with some jerk. This reminds me of the letter we took a few weeks ago from the woman whose competitor down the street was copying all of her apparel designs. Remember that? Yes, exactly. Like, you can spend 70% of your daily energy worrying about this jerk, or you can trust that

somebody who's going to copy your designs is not going to last very long or be able to compete with you in the ways that truly count. Same thing here. How much further would our friend and her partner get if they were just focused on great bread, marketing, all that stuff, not on combating sushi sludge. From the sushi restaurant, they probably feel bad that it's going into your place, but that's what the dumpster is, right? It's not even their fault. Also, I would not continue this public shaming campaign in the hope that this guy learns his lesson and doesn't do this to future tenants, because A, you're not going to teach this dude anything, probably, and B, it's just not your job to take care of future tenants. I love that you're thinking about that, and that's why you're a decent

human being who's built a thriving business, but I think that might be some idealism talking, in my opinion. Canadian idealism, which is my favorite idealism. That's right. You've got to focus on yourself and your business right now. And who knows, maybe a new location would actually bring new energy to your bakery. Maybe it'll allow you to expand. Maybe it'll allow you to serve your customers better. Maybe you find a location with better parking, better foot traffic. Maybe a new location will shake things up and inspire you in other ways. Your customers are clearly loyal. They're donating. They're sending mean tweets to the sushi place or the landlord or whatever it is. So it sounds like they'll follow you anywhere. So don't be afraid of quote-unquote losing here.

Sometimes these obstacles are honestly actually a gift. And good luck. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines that makes our job a lot easier. If you're missing your abusive alcoholic X, there's a shady street dentist operating in your area or one of your students assaulted you at school and now you can't sleep. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you you haven't signed up yet, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, is a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you, delivered right to your inbox once a week. So if you want to keep up

with the wisdom from our thousand-plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. We got a lot of good feed. My inbox is really full. We encourage responses, and I almost feel like maybe I shouldn't do that because, man, there's a lot of response, a lot of engagement. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My sister-in-law, let's call her Heather, has a nine-year-old daughter named Jane. Heather is not what I would call a great mom. She's been divorced from Jane's dad for four years and has been moving from place to place since then, from Florida to Georgia and back to Florida, with several stops in between, finding new jobs, finding a new boyfriend, falling out with her boss, then moving to another town. She's worked in the oil industry, sold cell phones, been an office manager, served as a park ranger, and is now working at a water treatment facility. New boyfriends will surface and move in with her.

Then when she leaves town, she leaves them as well. Oof, yeah, that's rough. So a lot of instability here. A lot. That's going to do a number on that kid, though. I'm afraid so. So the letter goes on. I suspect that Jane might have been physically abused in her home before the divorce.

Family members have tried to step in and help, but Heather's combative. and has trouble accepting help. Then, about a year ago, just after their most recent move, Jane told Heather that a boy in class sexually assaulted her. Oh, man, that poor girl, at nine years old. The teacher and the administration said there was nothing they could do because it was a he-said-she-said situation, and so Heather took her daughter out of school altogether.

I thought Jane being out of school would be temporary as it was near the end of the school year, but she's still out of school to this day. Heather leaves around 5.30 a.m. for work, and Jane is supposed to use an iPad to teach herself lessons during the school day. She's completely isolated all day long with only her dog. Wait, a nine-year-old is alone all day with a dog and an iPad? Are you kidding me? So this nine-year-old has been sexually assaulted and now she stays at home all day watching YouTube alone and she's supposed to learn multiplication tables? This is heartbreaking and honestly it feels like neglect.

Jane called my wife and me a few times to say that she's lonely. It breaks my heart. Then Heather restricts Jane's phone usage and we won't hear much from her for a month or so. So her mom is isolating her deliberately in a number of ways, getting huffy with family who want to help, taking her out of school, making her stay at home all day. This is truly awful. I find what Heather has done to her daughter to be inexcusable and inhumane. She's missing out on so much by not being in school, academically and socially. Furthermore, Heather prioritizes her social life when off work and will often leave Jane at home and go out to bars or parties. Okay, so any sympathy I had for Heather is gone at this point. I can understand a single mom who's hustling, not always available, but choosing to neglect your child even when you're off work because you want to do shots at the local bar and meet the next dude you're going to shack up with for nine weeks before you blow town again. Not okay.

My wife and I have a stable life and two small children and I'm not really willing to take Jane in. My commitment is to my children, and as you can imagine, Jane has some behavioral issues. I totally get it, man. You have to prioritize your family. I mean, it sucks, but it's absolutely fair. Jane's father has complained to her when he's had to, quote, unquote, spend the money to come see her. He's worthless. Jane's grandma lives across the state in a modest house with little income. The only conditions under which I would take Jane in are if Jane's grandma were made her legal guardian, and they both moved up here. We have space and live in a good school district. It's a lot to ask of grandma, and I don't think Heather would agree.

Yeah, I don't see that happening. Yeah, I'm going to guess not, no, but it would probably be the best thing for Jane. If we report what's happening to Jane, she might end up a word of the state, or worse, end up with her dad, who, I believe, willingly allowed her to be sexually abused when they live together. I don't know what to do, or if there's anything I can do. What do you guys think? Signed, protecting my niece while preserving her peace. and struggling to cease wanting to be her mouthpiece.

Oh, man, what a sad situation. I'm so angry at your sister-in-law, and my heart really does go out to this little girl. So there's a lot going on in this story, but let's try to get into it. First of all, yes, you could try to report Heather if you wanted to, but it's unclear if the state would be able to do much based on a few relevant statutes.

For one thing, Florida doesn't have a hard and fast rule about when children can be left home alone, which was a surprise to me, although maybe it shouldn't have been. Now, Florida law does require children between the ages of six and 16 to attend school regularly during the school term. If a parent doesn't enroll their child in school or refuses to cooperate, the district school superintendent can take steps to criminally prosecute the parent. But I'm just not sure that that would automatically mean a better life or home for Jane.

It might just mean that Heather gets a fine, maybe jail time, but probably not. And my guess is that would take a while because the system is probably overwhelmed with cases like this, which also is horrifying to think about. Also, a moment ago I mentioned that this sounds like neglect, but of course the legal definition of neglect is narrower than what most of us would consider neglect. In Florida, neglect of a child, it means a caregiver's failure or a mission to provide a child with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain the child's physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services that a prudent

person would consider essential for the well-being of the child, or a caregiver's failure to make a reasonable effort to protect a child from abuse, neglect, or exploitation by another person. And based on those two criteria, I'm not sure CPS or the cops could currently find Heather neglectful, except possibly on the whole supervision criterion. But again, conflicting statutes here, they might theoretically be able to find her father liable if what you said is true that he willingly allowed her to be sexually abused when they live together, which again, it's just awful, but that would require an investigation. It's now in the past. She doesn't live with him now. This might have even been in a different state. I don't know. I just don't see that happening.

And that's not going to materially affect Jane's life. And speaking to Jane's dad, to your point, this is probably not a guy she should be living with. And it doesn't sound like he'd be any better than Heather. These parents suck. So your options are basically let Jane live with this perhaps well-intentioned, but often neglectful and irresponsible mother, or intervene in a way that causes more chaos in Heather and Jane's lives and puts Jane in a possibly slash probably worse situation or at least creates more problems for them to deal with. And let's just appreciate this is an awful place for a family member to be because there's no way you can win here. So my feeling is as best you can, I would keep talking to Heather about what you're seeing, what you guys believe

Jane needs, including and especially attending school. I wouldn't frame it as criticism. I wouldn't frame it as judgment because that's what makes Heather react and shut down. I would frame it more as Hey, I was thinking, a girl Jane's age, you know, really needs to be in a classroom. She needs to be interacting with other kids. She's probably not being properly educated or stimulated all day on that iPad. You ever thought about enrolling her this falls or anything I can do to help, that kind of thing? And yes, you can get a little bit tougher with her if she resists, but I'd try to keep things as non-threatening as possible because Heather is obviously a very tricky personality.

And you just don't want to trigger or spook her. The other reason I would focus on getting Jane back in school is, at least at school, she would be surrounded by other people, you know, teachers, guidance counselors, students, other parents. So if she's in danger or if she just needs some extra support, there will be a lot more people around to help. A lot of them are mandated reporters. So if they see something wrong, they would have to report it. And school employees have to follow certain policies around protecting their students. And, you know, maybe if she makes friends, the friends' parents might take an interest in her and care. So just getting her back into that environment would be a huge step forward. And it might take some of the pressure off

of you to intervene. Jordan, what worries me the most about the school thing is Heather's the kind of mother who doesn't want to actively parent. That's the sense I'm getting. So you would think that she would want Jane in school. That's like six or eight hours where she doesn't have to worry about her. So why would she rather her daughter stay home all day, alone? Is it because she's genuinely worried about what might happen to Jane again based on the last assault by that other kid, which I guess I could understand, but which obviously is not the solution here. Or is it, to your point earlier, because she's trying to isolate and control her to some degree? Obviously, we can't know for sure. I'm a little worried. It's the latter. There might be an even sadder possibility that she's

so neglectful and miss attuned to her own daughter that she's not even thinking about why she's keeping her at home. She just did that to put out of fire last school year and hasn't revisited the situation because it's too much of a burden. And she's got out of the crap on her plate. She's, that's fine, right? Out of sight, out of mind. But honestly, if you can't make any progress with Heather and you can't get grandma to lean on Heather to do the right thing, I would report this to the Department of Education or whatever the right agency is in Jane's state. Maybe Heather just needs to get a scary letter from Uncle Sam being like, put your daughter in school or there's going to be consequences. You know, that might be all you can do here without disrupting things too much. Besides that, stay as close to Jane as possible. Be a good friend and uncle to her. Try to make it safe for her to talk to you if she's in trouble. Hopefully over time your relationship will be one of the assets she has to work with. But in the meantime, I'm afraid you're just going to have to stand by and watch a very tragic, very dysfunctional situation unfold. You can't adopt her, you can't automatically make Heather a better parent, and that's just the reality of the situation.

My hope is that Jane grows up with enough support and relationships and inner resources to heal from this childhood and build a better life for herself, and that is going to be hard, but it's not going to be impossible. And who knows, maybe you and your family will be part of that, maybe not. But if you ever find out that something even worse is happening and Heather's not addressing it, then yes, absolutely report it. Sending you a big hug, wishing Jane, all the best. Man, that's sad as hell. You know what else you're going to want to stay home with all day? Not a dumpster full of sushi sludge, but the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday, you find our advice valuable,

I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discounts, and ways to support the show are all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals, or go ahead and email me, Jordan at Jordanharbinger.com. If you can't dig up the code, you can't find the code. You're not sure if the code works. I am happy to surface that stuff for you because it is that important that you support those who support the show. All right, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabriel, my wife and I have been together for over 13 years. During COVID, she dropped a bomb on me. She suddenly claimed that she was a lesbian.

After that, it was like someone flipped a switch. She became this whole different person. and I was left wondering who I was living with. She kept saying she never felt so good in her life and wouldn't hear anything about getting help. Then she cheated on me and pretty much ghosted the family. Holy smokes, that is a lot. Man, that must have been unsettling to watch. A buddy of mine asked if she might be manic,

which I didn't even know was a thing. After looking it up, yeah, she ticked all the boxes. Interesting. Like clockwork a few weeks later, she crashed hard. Living with her became a nightmare, and it really messed with the kids. We ended up buying a house and living separately,

sharing custody of our two little ones. Hold up. Wait, so she did a 180, cheated on you, ghosted you, ghosted your kids, living with her as a nightmare. And then you bought a house together?

Yeah. So did he buy a second house for one of them to live in? Like, we're still married, but you stay way the hell over there. What is, are you serious? I can't tell if that was the plan all along

or if that's just the way it worked out in the end. Either way, I find it interesting that after she blows up their lives, their next move is like, well, we better make a major purchase. Right. Not separating, not going to therapy, not taking a beat and letting the dust settle. Just straight to a 30-year fixed rate mortgage.

Yeah, well, he mortgaged more than the house. I'll tell you that. I mean, carry on, but that's an interesting next step they just took there. That's so weird. She started a new relationship with a woman almost instantly. Meanwhile, I started dating around, mostly looking for a sensual relationship rather than a romantic relationship. This went on for about two years. Eventually, she became unhappy in her relationship and started missing the family. I was feeling the same way. The back and forth with the kids was driving me into

unhappiness. She got her heterosexual sex drive back and we declared that we still love each other very much, so we decided to give it another shot. We moved back in together earlier this year and the family's back together. Man, what a journey y'all have been on. Geez. Initially, we seemed happy to be back together, but here's the thing. I'm not sure we are now. While she showed love and affection at the beginning of her return, now she's constantly negative, depressed, and anxious, and she's constantly nagging at me. She knows she's got anxiety issues, but still won't seek help. She set up her own bedroom where she's gaming most of the time. She says everything's fine, but I can feel something is off. It's like we're just roommates who put up with each other while taking care of the kids.

Even though it's tough for me, too, I'm really trying to make this fun for all of us. Oh, man, this is sad. So she's isolating, she's numbing, just in total denial, and you're trying to make the best of things, trying to keep everyone's spirits high. And I appreciate that. I really do. But man, this situation is just not healthy. Untenable, in my opinion.

So he goes on, it feels like the woman I fell for died three years ago, and I've already gone through that grief. Her love doesn't feel genuine. and it even gives me performance issues in the bedroom. She's not big on talking about feelings, but she did mention once that it's hard knowing I've been with other women. Okay, yeah, well, first of all, not big on talking about her feelings. That tracks with everything you've shared.

Your wife is avoiding a lot here. Second, okay, it's hard for her knowing you've been with other women? Dude, she's been with other women. She did it first for crying out loud. My goodness. She says it's tougher for her than it is for me that she was with someone else. Oh, of course. Which is total BS. I was devastated.

Wow, I am trying to restrain myself here, but man, that really grinds my gears. How does she know that it's tougher for her than it is for you? This woman who doesn't seem particularly curious or empathetic towards you, that is crazy. Like, oh, by the way, I know I cheated on you, but it hurts me more than it hurts you. And oh, by the way, since after that you hooked up with someone, that hurts me. and it's, but you should forgive the, forget the part where I blip the family. Good Lord. Also, even if it is somehow tougher for her, what good does it do to say that to him? It feels self-involved and invalidating. Yeah.

I'm very concerned about his wife, Gabe. Look, I have compassion for anybody who has a possible mood disorder who's confused about their identity, who's in pain and feels the need to disappear into call of duty for hours every day. I get it. We've even gotten letters like, hey, you guys are really judging people who have mood disorders. No, I'm quite compassionate. But to refuse to go to therapy, to even, even talk about what you're going through with your spouse. And then you turn around and say, trust me,

it's harder for me that I cheated on you with another person and decided I'm a lesbian than it is for you, even though you did it after the beat were split up. I mean, without then trying to appreciate his experience of all this. How do you rebuild with somebody like that? Well, you can't. You know, that's my problem.

Like, this is a non-starter. I've always been a happy-go-lucky kind of guy, the one who lights up a room. But lately, I feel like she's dragging me down, and I'm at a loss about how to fix this. getting worn down by all of her negativity and anxiety, and her behavior has given me some serious trust issues. Sometimes I'm scared that she's just with me for strategic reasons, like taking care of the children and the economy. Also, it's frustrating dealing with someone who won't even

admit mental health is a real thing. Uh, yeah, dude, you just narrated like six good reasons to seriously reconsider this marriage. But the thought of going back to shared custody makes me even more miserable. So I really want to make this marriage work. What? So the school pickups are easier? I just, I can't imagine that coordinating shared custody is actually harder than living with a partner like this. Yeah. What would you do? Signed, I don't mean to boast, but I've done the utmost to cope with this chaotic ghost. And while I don't want to coast, I can't quite admit that my marriage might be toast. So now you're just writing poems now? Is that what we're doing? Yeah. I wrote that one for you.

Oh man. Well, I think you can tell where we stand on all this. Look, I can totally appreciate why these last three years have thrown you for a loop, why you wanted to give things another chance, how you're trying to do right by your children and your wife. I know it's confusing. You sound like a decent guy. You're kind, you're patient, you're compassionate, you want what's best for your kids. Those are wonderful qualities. I can see how you've been trying to do right by everyone here. But what your wife has been going through these last few years, and more importantly, how she's been going through it, It's a real problem. You know, you don't need to repeat the many ways that your wife has acted chaotically,

insensitively, unfairly, avoidantly, unsympathetically, not just to you, but also to your kids. I mean, the list goes on and on. And like I said, I have a lot of compassion for anyone going through a crisis. What I don't have much compassion for is someone who's out of control and then just refuses to seek out the help they need. You've been on this ride for three years, man. I think you have enough data now to know whether your wife shares your values around mental health, stability, love, respect, all that.

Based on what you've shared, she doesn't. The only way forward here in my view is intensive couples therapy. And the successive couples therapy, that would really depend on both of you actively participating and wanting to get better. Not you wanting to get better and her half-heartedly participating or participating all right and then going home and locking herself in a room for hours where she can game and forget about everything you talked about in session. But given what your wife is going through, I think she also needs to be an individual therapy. She might also need to see a psychiatrist. If there is, in fact,

a bipolar component to all this, I mean, although, look, I know mania can be caused by different things, and all of this behavior might be a response to a ton of unaddressed stuff in her life. So to be unusually direct with you, if I were in your shoes, I would be separating from my wife. I just don't think you're getting any indications that she shares your desire to meaningfully work on things. I agree, Jordan. We usually don't tell people, look, it's over, you know, time to move on, but the facts here are pretty stark. I'm also thinking about their kids who have been exposed to a lot of instability, who were literally abandoned by their mother, while she went off on this mini rampage, who are growing up in a home that sounds very tense and

awkward and sad. I know our friend here cares a lot about his kids, but it's time to consider whether separating from a spouse like this might actually serve them better than trying to keep this family together at all costs. And that's where the story comes back to you, my friend, because Jordan reacted to this detail about you buying a house after everything went down. To me, that fits with a few other interesting things that you shared. For example, that you were feeling unhappy after a while, that the back and forth with the kids was driving you into unhappiness, as you put it. Which, I'm sure that was sad and stressful, but the logistics were not what was driving him into unhappiness. No, although it's interesting. He is so concerned about

logistics, right? He mentioned it with the earlier thing. And then he mentioned it again when he said, I don't want to get divorced because I don't want to, you know, it's just too much to manage or something. Also, the fact that you declared that you still loved each other very much and then moved back in together, which look, maybe you did feel that way. And if that's how you felt, fair enough. But so much had already gone down by that point. And then there was that interesting detail about how even though all of this is tough for you too, you are really trying to make this fun for all of us. Yeah, that jumped out of me too. I don't know why, but as a dad that kind of got me.

What I'm hearing is a guy who has a very strong sense of duty, who is steadfast, who is determined to make the best of a very flawed situation, and who's trying to keep this family together at all costs, but sometimes to the point of willful blindness. I'm with Jordan. These are virtues in a lot of ways, and I believe that you really do want what's best for your kids, but when these qualities are not balanced by other ones, honesty, good judgment, appropriate standards, they can keep you stuck in a highly dysfunctional and hurtful situation. and they can expose your children to a very damaging parent.

And they can lead you to enable somebody who is just not taking care of herself. Good point because look, I mean, she has a house, she has a room, she has her husband, she has her kids back. No one seems to be making her look at any of her stuff. She's still kind of a mess, but she has it pretty good. I'm not saying this is all about money, but that does seem to be part of the equation, because I can imagine that somebody like her would have a hard time holding down a job, building good relationships, providing consistently.

I mean, something I think he needs to consider. I'm also wondering if there's a part of you that feels that if you were to separate from your wife or even just get angry and sad and express that to somebody, that you would be letting your children down somehow. Because look, mom is so chaotic. She's the one who struggles. And it's really kind of unsettling to watch. So maybe you're going, I need to be the rock here.

I need to be the guy who makes everyone laugh and holds it all together. Or I will be failing. And I might actually feel just as bad as she does, which is another casualty. of the situation that you can't always be in touch with all of your complicated feelings here because it sounds like there just isn't very much room for them. That might be a response to how intense the last three years have been. It might also speak to how you deal with your feelings in general. Because if you really felt them deeply and knew that you could act on them and honor them and prioritize yourself and your kids, I'm not entirely sure that you would have stuck around through

all this. Totally agree, Gabe. I think he's subsumed a lot of his experience and identity in this marriage and the family, and I can, I can understand why. But he's now at a point where he's seeing that more clearly, and he's going, why am I still in this marriage? What does my wife want for me? Those are intense questions. They're essential ones. I hope he can tap into the courage to really answer them. I'm sorry you've been through all this, man. I can hear how painful and confusing it's all been. My advice to you is start listening to yourself more. Take a look at this tendency to put other people's needs above your own. Trust that it's okay to protect yourself and your children if your spouse isn't taking meaningful steps to get better, I'd still, of course, be kind to her. I'd still

try to support her, but with very strong boundaries and with new expectations about what she can actually do. If you do that, you'll know what the right move is. Good luck. Recommendation of the week, my recommend, my turn this time, iPhone users can actually change their photo settings to take better high-res photos if they want. Obviously at the wedding in Georgia, there were tons of photos. I brought my professional cameras. Most people just use their phones. And in the iPhone, you can take better photos. Most of the default stuff is not that great. Basically, you go to settings, camera formats, and all of the advanced camera settings are in there. And a lot of wedding guests in Georgia, they did this and their photos looked amazing because your phone is often set up to

sort of default take photos that are going to look good on the phone. They're not necessarily set up to take videos that are going to look good on a computer or, you know, if you're at a a wedding, you want to show the video on your television later. Now you've got this grainy, crappy thing that was going to look great on an iPhone screen, but it's going to look crappy on a 65-inch flat-screen TV. So you can change this stuff. Obviously, for big events only. You don't want to be taking like 4K video or 48-machixel photos for everything. You'll fill up your phone too fast. But if you go to a special event, you should change it because then you've got more data to work with. The photos can be taken in pro-res format, which means they can be retouched as opposed to just using filters and

stuff like that. You can actually edit the photo and there's a lot more data there to work with. And we'll link to some more instructions about all this in the show notes if you want to give them a go. but basically you don't need to bring a nice camera or buy one, and you also don't need to settle for iPhone photos. You can kind of get a happy medium if you're going to go do something special. Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show, if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners

about specific episodes, a lot of fun in there, actually. If there was an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, you've got questions, you want to discuss stuff. Pretty much every episode is being discussed on the sub. A lot of cool conversations happening over there. You can find it at Reddit.com slash r slash Jordan Harbinger. I'm a mod there. Gabriel's in there. We've got a lot of community stuff going on. I just think it's a fun, it's kind of a fun thing to do for a few minutes a day, is just check in and see what people

are into. And I, of course, we take your feedback and suggestions there as usual. All right, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a public servant working in one of the local governments of a major city. I've worked here for 10 years supporting people to work and participate in democracy. Our population has changed rapidly over the last few years, and although it's uncomfortable to talk about, misogyny and anti-Semitism have become more prevalent in some communities. I've been attacked on the job several times in the past 12 months, the most recent time sending me to the hospital for stitches. God, that is awful. Gabe, I suppose you can relate, hey? I am so sorry to hear this, my God. Terrible. Jeez. I mean, I was just assaulted by a stationary towel rack. I can't even

imagine having to go get stitches because somebody, what, jumped you while you were trying to help them apply for housing or something like that? Yeah, this is terrifying. I mean, I was just terrifying. I I mean, this happened at work. I second that. I'm so sorry that's happened to you. I don't know if I could go back if somebody attacked me at work. Truly. Just a couple of years ago, the vast majority of people would engage and ultimately be grateful

to have us in their corner even if they felt frustration about their situation. Now, an increasing number of residents are not coming to us openly and in good faith, but just to demand more and pick fights. The jobs we find aren't good enough. They don't have enough money. They want housing and amenities that we don't have. and 90% of people in our area can't afford. I try to build rapport by sharing my journey, my experience with homelessness, poverty, and poor mental health, how I was able to build a

pretty good career to be here now. But they'll be dismissive, that it's easy to say when I have a comfortable job like mine, or I have some kind of privilege that they don't. Some residents will see that I'm a Jewish woman and immediately ask for someone else, even though I'm the most experienced person on my team. This is incredibly sad. To be fair, I can appreciate that people who look different from you and have had different life experiences from you might not be able to relate to your story in the way that you hope and that maybe they'd rather deal with someone who shares their background. But for somebody to hear your story and go, yeah, no, I just don't believe you. Your privilege is not a touch because you're on the other side of this desk and your last name is

Rosenberg or whatever, as opposed to, wow, you went through some of the same things I did and look where you ended up. What can I learn from you? I don't know. I find that frustrating. The sense of entitlement from these people is off the charts. I've got a lot of compassion for how difficult life is for some folks, especially the people that you're serving. So I get why it can be hard to open themselves up to help. But people, man, they get in their way a whole lot, or they miss the gifts that are right in front of them and sometimes apparently punch the person

whose literal job it is to help them get an apartment for their family. I mean, this is sad. I don't get it. What is this? The purge? Yeah, it feels very dystopian and very post-COVID-E in some ways. I mean, who acts like that? Who are these pieces of crap? I've used my employee assistance program

and shelled out for private therapy. but it's getting difficult to bear. The longer I go, the more anger and hopelessness I feel, and I don't know what to do anymore. I wake up and wonder why I serve a public that seems to increasingly resent my existence, and frankly not for very good pay. I'm frustrated with the attitudes of people I support

and the colleagues who are enabling them. My closest colleagues have left or changed to back office roles. My boss and remaining colleagues say that equity is about accepting people as they come to us, and not expecting them to share the same values or standards. But that feels just as wrong as forcing people to conform. Yeah, no, that's ridiculous. If we as a society can't agree about some basic values,

like how to treat people, how to be grateful for the help you can get, how to not dismiss or hurt someone because they look a certain way, and that goes in both directions, then what hope do we have? Ironically, excusing people who are cruel to you or give you stitches in the freaking head because you're Jewish or you're a woman or you haven't struggled enough in their stupid opinion, Call me crazy, that is not equity either. I mean, man, what a job and frankly, what a boss you have.

I've asked my boss to at least blacklist violent clients, but they say that this is unfair, as it puts them at risk of further disadvantage. But what about the harm we're facing? Truly, your agency is failing you on some level. I can't even believe what I'm hearing. Well, we can't stop serving violent people who should actually be in prison

because it might hurt them more. He punched me in the face and I had to go to the hospital. Yeah, I know, we have a tough job. then you stand out here, you piece of shit. Look, I know this is complicated. I'm sure your boss has to walk a tricky line. They probably can't tell a lot of people to screw off. I get it. But if you're violent, like, no, go straight to jail. Come back when you're ready to fill out paperwork and say, fucking thank you. This is not a lot to ask for. I'm getting heated up even hearing this. I can't believe somebody's in this situation. I'm also struggling with this anger when I've always been politically very progressive. The work I've done for a decade is being thrown back in my face, but I'm worried that I'm a bigot. for feeling this way. Well, I also totally get that and I appreciate your honesty. I know this is hard to talk about. But just to dispense with this, no, you're not a bigot for appropriately responding to anti-Semitic and misogynistic attacks from barbarians who don't know how to function in society, but let's come back to that. I used to love this job and feel so fulfilled in it.

I felt grateful and proud to be one part of a system that treats everyone fairly and improves lives. I still love what I do, but now I go home every day feeling completely drained and numb. What do I do? Signed a lifelong lib come into grips with the fact that these paper clips and a stiff upper lip might not be enough to cope with this really long dip. Gabe, I like how the longer the episode goes on, the longer the sign-offs become. You like that? I got to keep it off. Just got to keep people engaged till the end, you know? I appreciate it. Busta Gabe's over here. Marshall Mizrahi. My album drops at the end of the month, just FYI. So get it. I just imagine a whole EP of you repeating your sign-off. Someone somewhere, someone somewhere streaming that on Spotify.

I'm going to start an artist account right now so I can earn half a cent every 30 days from plays on that. Exactly. Worth every penny literally. Well, man, what a story. Again, I'm so sorry you've been through all this in your career. The fact that you've been attacked while genuinely trying to help people, when this is very much your calling, it's deeply sad, but it's also, it's insane. I get that government agencies are frustrating. I know resources are limited. Modern society is deeply flawed. I'm sure these people's anger is partly legitimate, even if it's misdirected. But to take a freaking swing-line stapler to a civil servant's head because they're not giving you exactly what you want, even though it doesn't exist and they're not entitled to that. I don't know. It just makes me very worried about

the state of things. I also want to thank you for being so open about all this, because like I said, it's hard to talk about. It's scary enough having to go get stitches because somebody assaulted you. But I imagine the deeper crisis you're facing is reconciling your noble values with the reality on the ground. And that can be tough for people of all political affiliations, but I think it's especially tough for liberal folks like you who want to see the best in people who believe in these public programs and then find out that the people they're serving don't always share those values or don't meet them in the same spirit. I can hear how disappointing and confusing that is on top of being super sad and hurtful. So it's a tough one because there are so many variables here that you can't

control. You can't change the personalities or values of the people you serve. You can't change the system in which you operate. You can't make misogyny or anti-Semitism or racism or any of those things go away. Maybe you can influence your colleagues in the culture of your workplace to some degree by talking to them about all this, seeing how you can get some more support, but even that's not really under your control. And it sounds like they're either indifferent or they're just rigidly attached to their beliefs, even if those beliefs are no longer serving anybody involved. So the only thing you can control here, it seems to me, is yourself, how you show up, how you respond, what your standards and expectations are, of the people you serve, of your bosses,

of your peers of yourself, and how you take care of yourself. So let's quickly run through your options. Option one, stay at the job. The upside is you continue to honor your purpose and your values around helping people in need. The downside, of course, is you expose yourself to these same risks and challenges, and they might even get worse over time. Option two is you leave. The upside there is no more staplers to the noggin for not given someone a three-bedroom apartment with an infinity pool or whatever. No more, let me talk to somebody else, you're too Jewish or you're a woman

and women, you know, have no place in society. It's like, again, I'm starting to read between the lines what you mean by the population exchange. Possibly no more cognitive dissonance on your part, another benefit. The downside is you lose this meaningful calling of yours. Your agency loses a very experienced and thoughtful employee and the good people you serve,

they might struggle more. But them's your options. So whatever you do, it'll have to be one of those two versions. and my feeling is if you decide to stay, you need to make some radical changes in order to survive. Ultimately, that means making peace with some truly awful feelings and experiences sometimes, finding ways of letting them roll off your back more, not internalizing them more than you have to, not letting them infect your feelings about yourself, your beliefs about this job, your entire worldview, really.

And I just want to acknowledge that is really hard. This is going to require a degree of grace, forgiveness, and compartmentalization that you haven't tapped into before. So to look at someone yelling at you or demeaning you, or maybe even physically attacking you and go, okay, it's not about me. This person is really going through it. I'm going to choose to be peaceful and patient and then do some deep breathing exercises in the break room. I'm not even saying I could do it. I probably couldn't.

But if you stay, I think you're going to have to. But to do that, you're also going to have to find the support you need to work through these experiences. I'm thrilled to hear you're in therapy. I think that's crucial. But I also hear you that therapy doesn't solve everything. So you also need to spend time with good friends, loving family, peaceful people. you need to have experiences outside of work that are very different from your time at the agency. You need to have conversations that are very different from the ones at your job.

And remember that there are people who don't hate you or want to hurt you. It's key. But more than that, I think you're also going to have to adjust your expectations at work now because part of the pain you are feeling is confronting the gap between what you believe and the behavior of people you interact with, your bosses, your peers, and especially the people you serve. As hard as that is, I also think that is super important. because what you are coming into contact with here is reality.

Your idealism is taking a really big hit, and that is painful, but it's also essential to see things as they really are, right? Now, I'm not saying that you need to do a full 180 and give up on your values and become a raging racist who doesn't believe in helping disadvantaged people, and that's not you. That's a whole other pathology. What I am saying is, first of all, all nice ideas break down when we put them into practice in the world. And I think we all have to be practical and flexible and sober about that fact without sacrificing

our ideals. And second, if your experience at this agency does influence your politics or your values, I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. So, for example, after learning more about the people you work with, maybe your stance evolves from people deserve assistance no matter what to people deserve assistance when they ask for it with kindness and with gratitude, when they come in the right spirit, and when they know what to do with it. Or maybe you go, yes, I'm still a liberal. I still believe in serving these folks, but part of being a liberal is standing up for everyone's freedom and safety and dignity.

There's and mine. Yes, exactly. When you experience cognitive dissonance like this, when you hit kind of a philosophical crisis, the best thing you can do is embrace the ambiguity, lean further into the nuance, be in touch with all of the data, not just double down on your pre-existing beliefs, because those broad identities, those blanket beliefs, they just don't do very well out in the world, and I think you're going to continue to struggle to reconcile your values with the reality of your job if you cling too hard to them. Not because your ideas are wrong or bad, not at all, but because they might make it hard sometimes to also hold other equally valid facts that are sometimes in tension with them. For example, that some people are cruel or ungrateful,

or literally dangerous. And acknowledging that doesn't make you a bad liberal or a closet conservative or a secret bigot, but not acknowledging it might make you willfully blind to certain facts about human nature and specific individuals that are extremely important to recognize. And that might actually be one of the sources of your anger and your hopelessness right now. Not just how people treat you, but how those experiences then go through this filter of, well, I'm supposed to believe this, I'm supposed to feel this way about these people. Now I don't feel that way all the time, so there must be something wrong with me. Exactly. I think these days a lot of liberals are coming to the cold realization that liberalism has

its limits when you're dealing with people who are not meeting you in good faith and with the same liberal values. And I know that because I am one of those liberals, I think, right, in many ways, at least in part, I wouldn't put myself firmly in that bucket or anything. But a lot of my beliefs have been challenged in the last few years and I think that's going to continue happening. And I think that's a good thing. So I don't think she's at risk of becoming a monster. But she might also decide that this job is no longer sustainable for her. Which, by the way, her closest colleagues are also doing by leaving or shifting to back office roles. So this is not just her problem. Yeah, it kind of annoyed me when her boss was like, oh, but equity. And it's like, bro, you're back there. Why aren't

you up here? Oh, yeah, I don't want to get punched in the face. That's kind of a you thing. The equity feels a lot different out front. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's a little too equitable right over here. I kind of like my air-conditioned office where I can surf the internet while you guys are up here, having people try to shove your face through the laminar. I mean, there's obviously something very wrong here, right? And that brings me to my last thought for you, which is there might also be some very good reasons to consider moving on from this job. You've been through a lot here. The population you serve is extremely challenging. As much as I believe in changing your lens to change your experience, it's possible your job will always be stressful and dangerous. It might be time to

protect yourself. Now, I know that you have a deep connection to this work. I love that. I admire it. Changing jobs doesn't mean abandoning your purpose. In fact, sometimes it means honoring your purpose even more by following it to a place where you can also make an impact, maybe even a bigger impact without compromising yourself. And who knows? Maybe there are other agencies that serve this population. Maybe there are nonprofits that cater to people who are more grateful for the help. Maybe there are, I don't know, philanthropy roles in the private sector that would really benefit

from somebody with your experience. Meaning comes in many forms and you can channel it in so many ways. So maybe start opening yourself up to new possibilities, having conversations with people in your industry, reading up on jobs, and just play with the idea of a new chapter. Also, there's the practical issue of not being paid very well. Well, yeah. I'm sorry, but if you're being discriminated against and sent to the ER for stitches as part of your job, you better be making some decent money. I mean, you've got to be compensated somehow. It's possible that your sense of justice and purpose are keeping you stuck in a position that is not doing right by you on a number of levels.

Agreed. So look, you're wrestling with some very difficult feelings right now. They're all valid. This is trauma upon trauma, physical and emotional, just in the course of doing your job. And you're a freaking hero for sticking with it. I would have written my boss an email from the ER waiting room being like, nope, I'm out. Thanks. Here's your equity. So kudos to you. But your job now is to sit with all these feelings and see what they're trying to tell you. At a minimum, I think they're trying to tell you that something has to change here. Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for writing in. And we're sending you a big hug. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in. And of course, everybody who listened. Thank you all so much. Don't forget about our episodes with Andrew Gold on the Psychology of Secrets and Dan Harris, an amazing story from war reporter to the newsroom to meditation and

mindfulness, really interesting guy, one of my good friends over there. Go back and check out those if you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know like and trust. And if you're trying to move on from your job where you get punched in the face or hit with staplers, it's a great time to start building your network and our six minute networking course is the way to do it. It's 100% free. It's not gross. It's not schmoozy. It's all free on the thinkific platform at six minute networking.com. Dig the well before you're thirsty. You might not be, today, you might not get hit with a stapler, but you never know what's going to happen next week. You got to build those relationships before you need them.

Again, all free at six minute networking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else

who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with former NBA superstar and American icon, Shaquille O'Neill. I'm flicking the channels and I see El El Coojet. I'm going to be a rapper. Say, flick the channel again, I see a guy doing a great sitcom. I want to be an actor.

Of course, I'm a sports guy. I want to be Frank O'Harris, the Immaculate Conception. I want to be Reggie Jackson hit a home run. My father made me right from A to Ciccom. B what I wanted to be. So A was a basketball player, B was a basketball, I actually got in trouble for that. Dr. J changed my life. Dr. J was the guy that said, okay, now I know what I want to be when I grow up.

I had some good grades and my father took me to a game. We're way up in Madison Square Garden, probably the top row. Boring game, Dr. J. go baseline, throw it down. The whole arena stands out. It actually scared me because I thought something was happening. And I look at my dad's like, I know what I want to be when I grew up, dad. I want to be down there. I've won on every level except college.

Little League, AAU, Olympics, Junior Olympics. So as a youngster, when I used to play and win, he would let me celebrate the trophy one day. I come home and watch the school and be gone. And he was the type you never asked him, where's the trophy in? So if I finally asked him when I got older and he said, I did it because I never want you to be satisfied. I want you to always want more as a player.

So even as a youngster when I was a player and I wasn't that good, that wasn't stopping me. Because I knew that because of my work ethic, I was going to be somebody. And once I saw Dr. Jay, it's all about believing. I got to ask, or people are going to get mad. What's going on with the flat earth thing? Are you just messing with everybody with that? It seems to be flat.

Would you like to hear my theory? To hear more about how Shaq makes important business decisions and manages his expansive career, check out episode 691 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by What, was that like podcast? If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what, that actually happened? You got to subscribe to what was that like? It's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives, and they're

not just giving you the highlights. They're walking you through it from the inside as the person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing. Do you anything? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like. Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what

was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes

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