The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1046: Hydrotherapy | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: September 8, 2024

Ice plunges, hot soaks, and eight glasses a day: Jessica Wynn splashes cold water on hydrotherapy myths and explores potential benefits on Skeptical Sunday! On This Week's Skeptical Sunday, We Discuss: Hydrotherapy, which includes various uses of water for health purposes, lacks substantial scientific evidence for many of its claimed benefits, especially for generally healthy individuals. The popular belief that we need to drink eight glasses of water a day is a myth perpetuated by beverage companies. Our bodies are well-equipped to signal thirst when we need hydration. Extreme temperature changes in hydrotherapy, such as alternating between hot and cold water, can be dangerous and potentially lead to fainting, heart problems, or drowning. Many of the alleged benefits of hydrotherapy, such as improved circulation or muscle recovery, can often be achieved through other, potentially safer methods like exercise or breathing techniques. Hydrotherapy does show promise in specific medical contexts, such as pain management for fibromyalgia, easing labor during childbirth, and assisting with certain rehabilitation exercises. If you're interested in exploring hydrotherapy for health reasons, consult with a medical professional to determine if it's appropriate for your individual needs and how to practice it safely. Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know! Connect with Jessica Wynn. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1046 If you love listening to this show as much as we love making it, would you please peruse and reply to our Membership Survey here? And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher, Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, we've got skeptical Sunday where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions.

Topics such as why expiration dates are nonsense, acupuncture, astrology, recycling, chem trails, banned foods, toothpaste, GMOs, crystal healing, and more. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, and cyber warfare, crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start

or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we dive into the waters of hydrotherapy and explore the depths of its benefits and drawbacks. Yeah, there's going to be some puns, not too many, relax. Is there science in taking a nice warm bath or sitting for a nice long steam with or without naked old dudes sweating it out next to you? Is it therapeutic for enthusiasts

who take ice plunges and frozen, rivers, a lot of our connection with water falls under the category of hydrotherapy, but is there any benefit to this age-old practice? Grab a towel as we wade through the skepticism of hydrotherapy with writer and researcher Jessica Wynne. Oh, hey, Jordan. You are looking refreshed. When was the last time you treated yourself to a long soak? So I'm a believer. I got a hot tub in the backyard, and it basically is just a big bathtub for the kids without soap in it. We go in there and play a few times a week. I wouldn't say it's relaxing when you're getting splashed and having rubber ducks bean at your head. But it probably feels good in some way, I'm sure for you and the

kids in different ways. Like when we shower, we bathe, swim, soak, whatever, there's this primitive survival connection with the water. Like, we need water, and because we lose it through perspiration, urination, by exhaling water vapor, we need fresh water. So long showers and baths, like, They were a staple of getting through the pandemic for me. Yeah. Like a quick shower can change how we feel, but the science behind hydrotherapy is pretty muddy. Is hydrotherapy just kind of an umbrella term for all contact we have with water? Because it's kind of what it sounds like.

So what is hydrotherapy exactly as opposed to basic hygiene? Well, I mean, you're right. Hydrotherapy is both the external or internal use of water in any of its forms. Okay, so basically everything to do with water. Got it. Yeah, water, ice, steam, any form of water being used for general promotion of health or a treatment for a specific disease. And we use these different forms of water at various temperatures, pressure, duration, body placement. All of that is considered hydrotherapy. So when I use my bidet that I have on every toilet in my house, insert sponsor here, is that hydrotherapy?

because it's really localized treatment, if you get what I'm saying. Yeah, of course. I mean, it definitely can be. People think that they're doing something healthful when they use a bidet. So, yeah, any way you're using water, it's always sort of been that way. Naturopathic water treatments, they existed in ancient cultures of India and Egypt and China. As far as I've read, every ancient civilization used water for some kind of wellness. But even though humans have used water for therapeutic effects for centuries and hydrotherapy is one of the basic methods of treatment widely used in natural medicine today, there isn't a lot of evidence-based science backing it up. You know, for something humans have always done, I always wonder why

there isn't science backing it up, because it seems like we would study that stuff first. So I don't want to imply that means there is no science that can back it up, but it just seems like, okay, we've been doing this for 10,000, 5,000, whatever years as humans since ancient Egypt. How come nobody's thought, like, let's check into this? Or they have, and they just came up dry, and here we are. It is a bit of a mystery. There aren't many comprehensive studies. And I don't know, maybe it's because there isn't much incentive to promote free therapy, or maybe it's difficult to do a study in a controlled environment. I just, I don't know. I couldn't find the answer to that. But what I did find is that hydrotherapy studies that are done are really limited.

And they're done regarding really specific ailments. I mean, regardless, it's common in most cultures and societies, whether it's called water therapy, aquatic therapy, pool therapy or balneotherapy. Balneotherapy is that? I've never heard that term before. Baleanotherapy, it's just a fancy word for taking a bath. Okay. It's bathing, but usually in mineral-rich water as therapy. I see. And that's been around for centuries from ancient Rome to modern day spa treatments.

And bathhouses are everywhere. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Neolithic tribes survived cold weather by soaking in natural hot springs. And we've kind of built cities around them, you know, there's Turkish baths, there's Japanese ownsons, there's Korean spas. It seems like every culture and society throughout history has some kind of bathhouse. That's right. Yeah, Korean Jim Gilbong. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong.

We are. I went to a Turkish bathhouse when I was in Istanbul, and it is, it's interesting. I've heard they're terrifying. Yeah, they kind of are because it looks like an insane asylum or kind of might look in a movie. And you walk in there and, of course, everything is just wet. And there's lots of just dudes hanging out naked, as you kind of would expect. But you go in this one room that looks like the ceiling could collapse at any moment or like, you know, maybe is really filthy and you just can't tell.

Again, I think these are clean because it's a popular tourist spot, but you do that you just never know, and you're in this really hot sauna, and then somebody, the hunchback of Notre Dame calls you out, and you go and you get your, first of all, they scrub you with a ton of bubbles, which is, like aggressively, right? It's aggressive, yeah, it's aggressive. That's a good word for it. And this guy is just manhandling me. And again, he really does look like a kind of, you ever see Borat where he's wrestling with that guy in the elevator? It's a little bit like that. Oh, yeah. And they're cracking your back and picking you up and throwing you over on like this marble slab that's covered in soapy bubbles. And it's not, I know what people are thinking,

like, either this is homoerotic or just sort of, no, it's almost like the opposite because it's sort of uncomfortable in multiple ways, pretty much every sense of the word. I'm digging myself a hole here, so I'm just going to continue. There's a town in England called Bath. There are lots of towns in Germany that use some form of the word bath or Baden in their name. There's even Baden Bodden, which I guess is like Bath Bath Bath, not really sure what they were going for there. So that I'm assuming is not a coincidence. Yeah, definitely not. The prefix or suffix bad in a German town's name.

That indicates it's a spa town, and it was a town built around mineral-rich waters. And legend has it, the waters of bath were believed to cure leprosy around 900 BC. So that's where it got its name. And then when the Romans invaded England, 2,000 years ago, it was like the first thing they did was build bathhouses around those waters. So it's like we've always been attracted to these mineral-rich waters. And one popular form of Baleo therapy involves bathing in dead sea water or water with dead sea salt, which supposedly comes from the Dead Sea in the Middle East, but it's usually synthetically produced.

Yeah, I would imagine authentic Dead Sea salt water cannot be too easy to come by. I mean, you can go to the Dead Sea and you can scrape the salt right off the ground because it just sort of like at the edge of the waves. Right. It's just there. It's thick. But I think people are already doing that. And also, you'd have to go there right now, which is maybe dangerous.

I don't know. Yeah, for some reason, the most mineral-rich waters seem hard to get to. But there's a ton around the globe with a similar makeup of the Dead Sea. So the saltiest one, most mineral-rich body of water, is actually a pond in Antarctica. Ethiopia and Senegal have their own Dead Seas. And there's a lot of products for sale that have labels that say, dead sea salt indicating the mineral makeup. So there's something to it for sure. Dead sea water studies show like bona fide evidence in healing psoriasis, some rheumatologic ailments, and lowering glucose

levels significantly. That's interesting and strange. I went to the dead sea like, I don't know, more than probably 25 years ago almost now. And I remember saying, wow, this is so rocky. And it's weird because the beach isn't rocky, but the sea is rocky. And they told us, oh, we throw the rocks in there because otherwise people come in and they just dredge up all the mud so they can sell it because it's loaded with salts and they can sell it as a product. So they actually make the easy accessible parts of the Dead Sea really hard to get the mud out of so that you're not just every day it's dug, you know, three feet deep. Yeah, so if you want Dead Sea mud, you kind of have to find a place that's really tough to get to

and go scrape it out of there and they probably don't want you doing that for whatever reason. Wow. Because it's useful. I thought it was BS. So that's chalk up one for Skeptical Sunday. I just thought like, oh, this is one of those things people have been doing for thousands of years and it doesn't do shit. Yeah, it does, though.

Interesting. It makes sense that a pond in Antarctica has a ton of minerals and salts in it because I guess otherwise it'd be frozen by now, right? I mean, it wouldn't be a pond. It'd be a slab of ice. Exactly. So we want those waters, but what's confusing is the labels on the products that are on our shelves.

There's a big difference between salt with high levels of magnesium, sodium, and all the the various other beneficial minerals of Dead Sea Salt. There's a difference between that and say Epsom salts, which is just magnesium. Okay. So like those bath bomb shower melts or a good old bubble bath, they smell good, but we're sold these products as benefits to health conditions somehow. Okay. So Dead Sea Salt has benefits.

That's incredible. I've also heard from a soil scientist buddy that also went to Israel with me a long time ago, that there are tons of heavy metals and stuff like that in places such as the Dead Sea. because the reason all that stuff collects is it's low and below the sea level and there's things that feed into it, but nothing really feeds out of it. And there's no life in there so it doesn't absorb the metal. It just sort of like collects in there over thousands of years. So I think you probably want to limit exposure to the authentic stuff a little bit just in case, because you might be getting those dead sea salts, the authentic stuff. However, you're also getting a bunch of, I don't know,

cadmium or mercury or whatever's in water that's been at the bottom of that kind of food, whatever you call it flow chain for 10,000 or 10 million years. Synthetics might rule the day here, I guess. He's absolutely right. We should all have a soil scientist on speed dial. Yeah, I suppose so. We have Epsom salts in the bathroom for when we have time for a soak. And I remember I had them in the 80s and 90s, and whenever I'd come home from the gym,

my mom would be like, take a bath in Epsom salts. But here's the thing. It always seemed odd to me that you could just get into a bathtub with Epsom salts, and that would somehow do anything. Because if it's going through your skin, that's kind of terrifying. I don't want the store brand, I guess. You know, if it's going into my... That seems like medicine, and I probably don't really want to do that to myself.

So the other option is I'm soaking in salt water, and all I'm doing is drying out my skin. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. It does not make sense. Like, there's some kind of magical osmosis going on. I mean, I'm all for feeling good and doing self-pampering. But products like Epsom salts, they're sold as pain relief, and there's just no scientific evidence that there's any benefit to soaking in epsom salt.

You're doing nothing different from soaking in water with nothing added. I've even come across encouragement to drink epsom salt water to relieve like constipation or to detox. What the hell? You're drinking your own bath water? No, no. I'm pretty sure they mean just drinking the epsom salts dissolved in fresh water that hasn't permeated every... crevice on your body already. Yeah, okay, that makes more sense. That's still gross, but way less gross than what I originally thought you meant. Yeah, and I'll try to stay with me here. Like, there's, that is not only ineffective to drink water with epsom salt in it, it's, like, really dangerous.

So, sure. Because the epsom salt is full of magnesium, it will relieve your constipation, but in a super aggressive way, which masks the root of a problem and can create additional troubles. Yeah, being aggressively decontipated sounds pretty horrific and messy. So isn't drinking magnesium salts dissolved in water what's used for colonoscopy prep? Because I had to drink this whole big jug of something salty and gross before they violated me with a camera snake. Yeah, you definitely drank something similar, like full of magnesium and sodium sulfates. That is not something you want to drink in your spare time for no real. reason, though. Like, we misperceive water's abilities. So many people think soaking in Epsom

salt or soaking in anything dissolved in bathwater is medicine and will relieve everything from insomnia to, like your mom said, muscle cramps, that it somehow gets into the body and sucks toxic substances out through our skin. It's an impossible concept. It's totally false and there's absolutely no scientific evidence supporting that rationale. That makes sense. So throw out those Epsom salts unless you need to be aggressively vacated or evacuated. Detoxing is a word I hear all the time, especially when I lived in L.A. Surprise, surprise. I don't really understand it because it often seems to involve making yourself go to the bathroom a hundred times or as you said earlier, aggressively decontipating yourself. But where are the toxins in our body supposed to be.

supposedly getting stuck. And what is a toxin anyway? Don't my internal organs do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to this sort of thing? Because otherwise, I'd be dead by now. Yeah, exactly. So let's slow down a little bit. So detoxing is, it's a complex biological process. It's not something achieved through baths or patches. The idea of pulling out toxins, it's just not how our bodies work. So toxins, are they just a buzzword or is there something else to it? I know this is going to be hard for a lot of people to accept, but the wellness industry has us fooled with expensive spa treatments and products that promote detox. There's one good example where it's not hydrotherapy, but there's these pads you buy and you stick to the bottom of your feet. And then people, they peel them off and they see a discolored pad and they think, whoa, like look at all the toxins I pulled through my skin.

Oh, yeah. But what you're buying is just color-changing fabric that will change if you stick it on anything. Right. So you basically stick it on your laptop and suddenly like, oh, look at all the toxins my MacBook Pro had on the screen. These are like mood rings for your feet, basically. That's a nice grift there, I suppose. How do you actually pull toxins out or is that that's not a thing you're saying, maybe? You don't. It's just not how skin works. When we sweat, steam, whatever, all that's 99%. water with zero toxins. So removing toxins is not in our skin's job description. Our organs, like you said, eliminate toxins. The job description of our kidneys, our liver, our lungs,

that's to detox. And these organs are highly skilled in identifying toxins and releasing them through our urine and feces. We have about five liters of blood in us and our kidneys filter around 180 liters of blood a day. Oh, wow. Yeah, that means 35 times a day our blood is detoxed. So no soak or drink will make any difference. So it's not even a drop in the bucket of what our organs can do. And they're just, our bodies are quite aware of what we're going through, what they need to do.

And toxins, they're not even a specific chemical or whatever the wellness industry is convinced us they are. It's like if you eat too many carrots, that's a toxic amount of vitamin A. Drink too much orange juice, that's a toxic amount of vitamin C. Eat too much broccoli, that's a toxic amount of fiber. Yeah, see, this is why I don't eat vegetables. Thank you. That's all right. That's another very good win for this episode.

I have some. Everything in moderation, Jordan. Like toxins are, they're not water soluble. They're fat soluble. So you can never use water to melt bad things out of your body, including fat, by the way, which is another misconception. Yeah, it's like, if I'm in this hot room long enough, the fat starts to melt, and then my blood takes it away, something, something detox.

Yeah, no. This makes a lot of sense to me. I could never figure out the foot pads and the detox remedies, and there's a zillion of those. I mean, it's crazy. It's right up there with ear candling, which is another episode we did a skeptical Sunday about. So basically to, quote unquote, detox, we just need to, what, drink more water? We all grew up being taught we need to drink eight glasses of water a day.

I feel like that's not a thing. I feel like I've gotten an email recently about how that's not actually true. Yeah, yeah, this will burst a lot of bubbles, but while the myth is still a thing, it's still a myth. So of course, hydration is good, but our obsession and misunderstanding is wild. Like, hydration is incredibly subjective. It's not the same for everyone. And it turns out beverage companies are terrific at advertising. Sure. So we're drowned in these ads about the eight glasses of water a day thing and hydrating, but there's no science that backs those claims. I just remembered. I did indeed get an email from a listener questioning me because I said in an earlier episode of Skeptical Sunday on bottled water that, oh, we need eight glasses of water a day

or maybe my guest said it. I can't remember if Andrew Gold said it. And he was very clear, the writer who emailed us, that this is not true and I should know better. And he's like a scientist who's like, I bring this up at every meeting. and everyone hates me for it, but this is my, like, call it. The hill I'm dying on. So apparently we're so steeped in this myth that I didn't even think to double check that because I'm so brainwashed by a big hydration or whatever that it never occurred to me that the eight glasses a day thing is nonsense.

But I should have known because how big is a glass? No one's ever said, right? So that it's like, is that eight cups a day? Is that eight? I've got pint glasses. Does that mean I need any eight pints? Nobody's being specific. All right. Time to aggressively decontopate ourselves and guzzle down some capitalism. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our sponsors, all of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show, are searchable and clickable over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And if you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code, please do email me, Jordan atjurbaner.com. I am more than happy to

surface that code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. So if it's not true that we need eight glasses of water per day, where did that notion come from? Why does everybody believe that? Everybody I know believes this. I know. And it's so ingrained in us. And there's even sort of variations off of it where there's weird math with your weight and I don't know, all this kind of stuff of how much water we should drink.

But I fact-checked it a hundred times. So in 1945, the Food and Nutrition Board promoted the concept of consuming two and a half liters of water. day. They based that on zero research, but they were actually on to something. But the original statement also said that our water intake comes from both liquid and food sources, which is true. Sure. Yeah, it makes sense we should actually count the water in the oatmeal or the steak or the salad that I'm eating during the day as well. That was another thing that's confusing. It's like, what if I'm eating a lot of soup? Is that I still have to drink eight cups of water? Why? I guess if I ate steak all day or like dry cereal, then I still need to.

None of it ever really holds up to scrutiny when you start thinking about it. I mean, they've tried to squash the myth or whatever. The board has put out an official statement updating everything, and they say, quote, we don't offer any rule of thumb based on how many glasses of water people should drink each day. People also get water from juice, milk, coffee, and coffee is a huge misconception that we believe it dehydrates us. The water in that counts. So tea, soda, fruit, veggies, raw food. All foods and drinks, they contain water.

They also go on to say, we concluded that on a daily basis, people get adequate amounts of water from normal drinking behavior and by letting their thirst guide them. But beverage companies, they massage the concept to mean buy more drinks. So the concept just stuck because, what, it was catchy and easy to remember, basically? Advertising is powerful. Companies like Gatorade portray dehydration as a serious threat. A podcast I love pushes liquid IV. And as far as I can tell, that's just really expensive Gatorade.

But they make it out as an important part of daily health. Dasani runs ads about healthy hydration, Runner's World Magazine, and other sites. They show ads that look like articles with headings like hydration 101. The list goes on and on. So just so we'll buy their products. So there's a ton of products like that on the shelves. We've had hydration sponsors, which I'll be honest, great to have if you spend an evening drinking whiskey and then you slam one of those expensive

Gatorade clones before wetting the bed. I mean going to sleep. Those are really handy sometimes and maybe like you've been on a long-ass flight. You finally land in Japan. You got to go to bed right away. It's like, oh, all I've had is three cups of coffee for the last 19 hours. All right, I'm going to drink one of these. Even then, water's probably fine. Yeah, water's fine. I mean, you're not dying of dehydration at that point. But the science shows it over. and over that dehydration is so incredibly rare. So it's like ridiculous we walk around with water bottles and hydration liquids and powders and supplements. We're just suckered into buying. When I go on a hike, I don't bring a water bottle. It's like an hour on a trail. It's not 40 days in the desert,

but everyone I pass has some kind of water contraption. It's unnecessary and we've been scammed. Maybe on an hour hike, it's unnecessary, but athletes drink water to prevent cramps and stay hydrated, right? We need water for other reasons, I assume. I mean, it's if you're doing tour to France and you've got to drink something, right? Sure, of course. Humans need to replenish the around two liters of water lost every day from just regular sweating, breathing, and urination. And then people who exercise athletes or people who live in hot climates or even if you just have a fever, you lose more water because you're sweating more. So then you need more water. But companies created things like the Gatorade Sports Science Institute, founded by Gatorade in

1985. Okay. And its scientific mission is just to discover exciting new reasons people should drink Gatorade. Yes, that sounds very scientific and rigorous. They're taken seriously. They sponsor sports science research at universities across America, which can influence their findings. Sure. So I think it's a tad suspicious that the American College of Sports Medicine, who's funded by Gatorade, once recommended when exercising, drink as much sports drink as tolerable with no scientific evidence. Saying drink as much as tolerable is so ridiculous somehow. What does that mean? When you have a headache, take as much Tylenol as you can fit in your stomach.

No, thanks. Not a good idea. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. And other companies do the same, though. Evian founded hydration for health and surprise. Their research shows everyone should drink more water and the best water is Evian. It's the wetest. It's the wetest. It's the wetest water out there. There's no evidence that drinking water does anything for crabs, by the way. It's just another thing people say. Huh. Well, it's not like we're going to die if we drink too much Gatorade or water, right? Oh, actually. Right? Well, it's incredibly rare, but you can overhydrate. Okay. In 2005, a college frat pledge at Chico State was forced to keep drinking water while doing

aerobics as some like dumb hazing ritual. Sure. He died from water intoxication or what's called as hyponotremia. So what's happening is when you exercise, your body actually goes into water conservation mode. So drinking excess water, it causes water retention. And drinking too much while retaining water lowers our sodium levels to like a dangerous zone. Yeah. And that can lead to what's called exercise associated hyponatremia. And it can be deadly. Okay.

In a study of Boston marathon competitors, like a sixth of the runners studied had hyponatremia. And many runners, they drank so much liquid during the race that by the finish line, they had actually gained weight. Wow. Gaining weight during a marathon. That's, it seems kind of intuitive, especially because I walk like three blocks in summer heat and I'll sweat bullets if it's hot enough. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need to be drinking more water. It's sweat is just your temperature control. And look, like hyponotremia is really rare.

Between 1981 and 2015 in the United States, 14 deaths were because of hyponotremia over hydration. And all those cases where athletes or military members doing. like intense physical activity while drinking between like five and 20 liters of water over a few hours somehow. Yeah, or that poor college kids. That is terrifying. I can see, I can see how somebody thinks they're being careful and they're staying hydrated because they're outside and they're doing an obstacle course and they're actually just slowly killing themselves. That's really horrible. Experts 100% blame the marketing of the beverage industry for this obsession with hydration. So, I mean, I think first we need to stop treating these ads like science. And when you're thirsty, have a drink of water. Don't forget your body counts those fruits and vegetables is water. So eat more fresh food. And if you're thirsty, just understand you're not dehydrated and you don't need some hydrotherapy. Evolution's given us like an incredible and extremely sensitive measure of dehydration. It's called thirst. So when you feel thirsty, have a drink.

end of hydration. Thirst means your body is keeping you hydrated. So what's actually really important is free access to water, but companies con us into buying these hydration products. And we need to know that dehydration is so rare, like really, really rare and occurs with extreme sickness or being stuck in a desert or something like that. I think it's somewhat hilarious that everyone walking around with a water bottle is just a result of incredible advertising. And I suppose it makes some sense. Back when I was in college, I think, or maybe it was high school, kids had those Nalgene bottles and it was kind of like a signal that like, I go outdoors and hike. And it's like, cool, but we're in biology class. Why do you need that? Now, if you're on trend, I don't know if you pay attention to this, now if you're on trend,

you're carrying a 64 ounce Stanley stainless steel jug-shaped weapon on your person at all times. They're like a hot commodity. Yeah, yeah. I learned about this at a to REI, I walked in there and the woman in front of me was like, hon, look at this water bottle. She's like, that's not exactly the trend. Here's the trend. And it was like a massive, like thermos doesn't even do it justice. I mean, this thing was like a jug. Like I said, it was crazy. In fact, I saw a fight video on Reddit where somebody gets clocked with one of those things and it took the scrap out of her pretty quick. So is this like clang, you know, and all of her smack talking immediately stopped and people were like, oh, you know, because it was just

this big old clang. So if you're already carrying one of those around, maybe you just keep it around for self-defense purposes, but you don't need to fill it up with water and drink it throughout the day. All right. Enough about drinking water. What about taking it in from the other end, right up the old keister. I'm talking about the colonic and those, we didn't even get into this, but like, there's lots of reasons people blast water up there behind. By your definition, maybe that's a good way to get those toxins out. Yeah, I will beg you, Jordan, don't get a colonic. Like, people think a colon cleanse is great, but... But it flushes toxic matter out of your gut, right? It's unfortunately another wellness scam. There's zero, none, no scientific proof colonics are good.

And there's a lot of research on this specifically. So all I have found is that a colonel cleanse, colonics, whatever it's marketed as, just produces horrible side effects, like cramps, nausea, vomiting, and the shits. Yeah. The facts are, if you have regular bowel movements, you're good. Your body is pretty fine-tuned, and I've done the job for everybody and read enough about our poop to assure you you're expelling enough. It sounds like at some level you're saying we're full of crap, and I concur.

I mean, yeah, but that's totally normal. Like, you definitely don't want to be force-flushing out your colon. It's not a vessel to be washed and kept clean. You're advocating I walk around dirty with a dirty behind? Oh, come on, come on. No, no, poop actually nourishes and protects your bow. I saw a gastroenterologist say it perfectly. Your body is like a garden.

You'll want some fertilizer in there. That makes sense, gut biome and all that stuff. I know that's kind of like a lot of people are studying that nowadays. How strange that we associate colonics with health. But there are colonoscopies and other reasons doctors prescribe. them, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. Doctors, though, not Miss Jessica at the spa on the end of a strip mall near the airport.

Coline cleansing is used for medical purposes in extreme intestinal illnesses, and usually when they use it, there's a significant comorbidity of schizophrenia with the intestinal illness. Oh, wow. So like in these extreme cases, a colonic improves a patient's mental state, but unless you suffer from from aggressive colon cancer while battling schizophrenia, just let your colon do its thing. So staying away from places offering gut and colon cleanses seems like a good idea.

What about just soaking? Not your colon, but just yourself. Yeah, well, soaking in water at various temperature produces different effects on different systems of the body, but it's unclear if anyone should be experimenting with it. There's many studies report the physiological and therapeutic effects of high hydrotherapy on certain conditions, but there's a lack of studies reporting the evidence-based

effects of hydrotherapy for just the generally healthy. So there's no comprehensive study. What do we know? Well, superficial cold applications like a cold plunge or an ice bath, they seem to cause physiological reactions, such as a decrease in muscle spasms and temporary pain relief. But the thing is, it has to be pretty cold to produce any effect. And it has to be done for a pretty long time. Okay. So when these tests are done, it's usually based on rectal temperature.

And it takes a lot to touch that thermostat. Yeah. I mean, nobody wants you messing with their thermostat for sure, down there. Right. But there are some medical reasons. Maybe not nobody. Yeah. Some people pay for that.

But there's some medical reasons, though, that we want to do that. And the most effective method of reducing core temperature appears to be immersion in iced water, but it's pretty rare that you need to reduce your core temperature unless you've, like, been lost in the desert or locked in a sauna for hours or, I don't know, on fire. Yeah. Well, I've only been two of those things. I mean, looking at the data, it seems. like a scam that were sold these products and enticed to go to places that use cold hydrotherapy.

It's not that water isn't therapeutic, it's that the extremes are extreme and they're unnecessary. So there's a lot of evidence that shows a warm temperature, 89.6 degrees specifically, that can lower your heart rate by 15%, but after an hour. Holy moly, that's a long time to be that uncomfortable. Yikes. And that long of a time can cause lower blood pressure and increase urination, but this is good for people with chronic heart failure. Okay. A healthy person has no reason to be soaking that long.

And the other thing is that temperature really matters. So somebody would have to be monitoring it, both high and low temperature extreme, bathing. Like, it's our heart rate up. Ah, that makes sense. When I get in hot or cold water, I always take a couple deep breaths while adjusting. and it's almost involuntary, right? You get in, you go, if it's cold, and you get in and you go, ah, if it's hot. So, like, something's happening.

I'm not just making old man noises. Or maybe I am. I mean, yeah, maybe you are. But for sure, I mean, water immersion definitely affects our respiratory system. Because when we gasp like that, we increase our oxygen consumption, which technically is good for your heart. But the shock isn't necessary. So the thing with gasping is that we can cause those effects. in our body through various other activities that don't involve extreme water temperature,

things like breathing techniques or cardio or simply just holding your breath. So they're found to be far less harmful in the long term. So we don't need to freeze to increase oxygen. We just need to breathe, which seems simple and it's a lot more comfortable. I mean, getting a cold plunge, you dread it unless you really love the endorphin rush. It sucks. I don't know how else to say. Yeah.

I mean, I hate being cold. I will bypass a cold plunge. I'm glad I have like kind of reason to now. Yeah, me too. Research shows that your body's reaction to icy water is an increase in heart rate and stress. Like you get stressed at stress hormones. So you gasp. Some people will even hyperventilate.

And then if you stay in long enough, you shiver. And what they find is that it's not the cold water of ice baths and cold plunges that are increasing the heart rate and blood flow. it's the physical act of shivering. Okay. So cardio that gets you moving or certain breathing techniques, they'll have the same effect. No water or that uncomfortable temperature needed. So there's no real health reason for the cold. I'm just trying to highlight this because I'm going to turn my cold plunge into a planter.

That'll look beautiful. Look, there is sometimes just not for somebody like you, like the casual cold plunger. patients with chronic pulmonary disease who do repetitive cold plunge and ice bath treatments show reduced infections, they show lower blood pressure, and that'll improve their quality of life, but they're monitored over a long period of time. So other things that are monitored for a long time are a persistent use of a cold pillow compress, and they're finding that that can reduce damage caused by chemotherapy or maybe reduce baldness and prevent alopecia. But When you do it as like a social activity or thinking you're treating some medical condition,

you are taking risks. Why has this attracted such a huge following? Like I said, even I have a cold plunge. I'm the last guy to jump on these trends most of the time. But it seems like three, four years ago, just pre-pandemic, it was like Joe Rogan's talking about it and all these influencer guys are talking about it and all these sort of charlatan self-help guys are talking about it. And it just got massive overnight. And like when I lived in Eastern Europe, you jump in a river or so do the polar bear thing.

But suddenly here it, I sound melodramatic, but it swept the nation in social media, especially. Yeah. Well, there was a product to be sold. And it's cool, right? Like, you're like, oh, that's cool. Like, I want to try it. I mean, and for people who join those polar bear clubs or if you're just using the cold plunge at home a lot, everybody says there's like a powerful effect on their state of mind and their sense of well-being.

but the thing is, like the people in the clubs, they do have a sense of belonging. They have a place to be. They have something to do. So who's to say, like, a book club or a softball team couldn't have the same effect? I mean, entering water is a communal activity in those clubs, and it takes place in nature, and we're drawn to that. It feels good. If you start, like, looking at it and reading the interviews with people who do it, though, like a group cold plunge sounds more like Sunday brunch than a life-changing therapy. Sure. Your dopamine and serotonin will increase in the cold, so those taking the solo ones at home,

they might be managing their stress response too, but it's not beneficial in the end. Gotcha. So where does that leave cold water enthusiasts, I guess? Well, people who ice bath or cold plunge on their own most likely could find the same effects by meditating or sitting in a steam room, I guess, or exercise. So that's why there's a demand for scientific evidence of these things, but it seems like similar effects are just derived from many different activities. You know, stress relief's important and there is a matter of choice and how we do it. It's just you have to be careful. There's a tradition of plunging like you said in Eastern Europe. There's an icy river in Ukraine and that's grown significantly since the start of the war, probably because it does give some mental relief. I'd also have

imagine living in a war zone might make you try crazy things to chill out. Yeah, sure, take your mind off things. Yeah. And just like the effects of exercise can vary, like jogging is different than lifting weights. Like the same goes for hydrotherapy. So it depends on the type of exposure, it depends on the duration and the intensity and so on. So this makes it hard to draw clear cut conclusions from the evidence because studies have relied on really variable methods. And whether using hot or cold, it also matters like what parts of you are immersed. What do you mean? What parts of me are immersed? Well, just like the temperature matters, the pressure and placement of water matters,

there's like a difference between up to shoulder versus up to head soaking, walking in water that comes up to your belly button activates different reactions than walking in water up to our shoulders. I mean, you know, you sit in a hot tub. There's a difference between sitting in it and sitting in front of the jet. That's true. It does different things.

What about muscle building and exercise related stuff? Because I've heard cold plunges are really great for those ambiguous mental well-being reasons that you're talking about. But I've also heard that they might actually inhibit muscle growth if you do it after a workout because you're supposed to have inflammation and stuff like that after you lift weights. Yeah.

And it's so popular for you. for athletes to do this, right? But I mean, despite the popularity of cold plunges, there's no evidence-based recommendations for athletes. It seems to me like a placebo effect. And I mean, there's a lot of claims that there's no benefit for pain, swelling, or isometric strength. So what exercise does is it causes microscopic muscle damage, right? And that stimulates cells that strengthen the muscles. But when you take an ice bath, you constrict blood vessels and slow down the physiological process, which that normal process can be a little painful. And so sure, this might reduce the pain short term, but you're getting in the way of what the muscle wants to do. And in the

long term, it might get really painful or inhibit those sweet gains. So studies on this have been small and inconclusive. And so there's like passionate claims on both sides, but nothing's proven. My takeaway is that a moderate soak and a moderate temperature is the best for most people, and the extremes will just mask or cause problems. I am so grateful that I can now guilt-free turn my cold plunge into either an outdoor bathtub for my kids or literally a planter. But you know who won't blow water up your butt? I mean, they might if you have. ask nicely. The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Don't forget y'all about our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. Instead of doing summaries of past episodes, we have

reoriented the newsletter around one, super brief, practical takeaway. The idea is to give you something specific, practical, something that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships, in under two minutes, making We Bit Wiser quite Wee. So if you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. com slash news is where you can find it. Now for the rest of skeptical Sunday. But maybe that's what's causing a lot of these problems in the world. People aren't showering or bathing in the right temperatures. Maybe all Putin, Hamas, and Kim Jong-un need is a good plunge. Yeah, a deep, deep plunge. Like most things, the same temperature's not

right for everyone. And it's not the same for the same person all the time. And medical professionals are the ones who should be suggesting any kind of hydrotherapy. All of the beneficial effects claimed are seen in activities done on land. And there are dangers for the casual plunger and soaker, and neither are provenative. So when done right for certain conditions, there are benefits. So what conditions are shown to benefit from hydrotherapy? I mean, I joked about badez earlier. I assume those aren't very controversial because it's kind of utilitarian.

But what can we say like, oh, if you have this, maybe a cold or hot plunge is going to do something. There's definite things that it's used for. It's used a lot in treatment of fibromyalgia syndrome because there's really strong evidence that hydrotherapy manages patients pain. Okay. But again, they're using extreme temperatures. Schizophrenia and multiple sclerosis treatments, they involve a lot of hydrotherapy because the shock of extreme cold or extreme hot water is found to have similar effects on the brain's sensory cortex as like electroshock. treatments? Wait, those do something? I thought that was just one trying to torture people with mental illness for some weird reason. I had no idea that actually did something. There was some

science behind it. Maybe we could talk about that. Yeah, that's a different episode. Yeah. Wow. But people confuse this with the idea that a cold plunge or a cold shower or whatever will help their anxiety. And what's misunderstood is how extreme the temperature must be and for how long people do this. So it's like a dangerous way to self-met. If it was true, like with modern day plumbing, wouldn't we all be perfectly mentally stable? You know, I mean... Yeah, the problem's getting worse, not better. And everybody I know has running water.

Right, right. And those athletes and trainers and physical therapists that are using hydrotherapy to reduce soreness and pain, they're often found to cause more harm because they're masking damage, even though in the short term they see it maximizing their performance. So hydrotherapy, it's also used to... effectively in rehab after some surgeries, though. Especially I found rotator cuff surgery, but that doesn't seem to be a temperature thing. That seems to be a water pressure thing. So again, it like matters what submerged in the water during that recovery. Yeah, I remember when I hurt my shoulder in high school

football, my friend's dad, who was a plastic surgeon, he had some fancy, I don't even know, $15,000 or something like that machine. And it circulated water of a very specific temperature, not too cold, you know, but not warm over a local area. And he put that on me. And it was like sci-fi tech at that point in the 90s. And he said he used that. He'd give somebody like a nose job and he could put one on their face or he would do something on their belly and it would really reduce the swelling. But I remember him also saying, you don't want to eliminate the swelling because swelling is how your body heals. And I remember not knowing that at the time. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. I mean, honestly, that kind of sounds like an expensive melted ice bag or something.

More or less. I'm sure it was a cool toy. I'm sure it felt great. But was it actually doing any good? Or would your body ever covered the same without the contraption, you know? Yeah, something, something swelling in inflammation, I guess. So, all right. When I have a calm and cold, I remember back in the day, one of the solutions was like,

hey, turn on the hot water and let the steam clear up your sinuses. And you're just sort of in the shower, you know, disgustingly clearing yourself out. That's kind of hydrotherapy, right? Sure. Sure. Like, steam is a form of water and it can break through a blocked nasal passage and thin the mucus. But what happens to you when you return to the regular temperature room, right? You're stuffed up again. I suppose. It's not a cure. And inhaling hot air while in a sauna or your bathroom with the hot water blaring, it produces no significant impact on the common cold. Okay. And some studies show it might increase difficulty in breathing in the long run. So letting your nose run in the steam room might give you temporary relief.

But if you do it often or for a really long period, you can definitely count on other sinus issues. There is one use, though, of hydrotherapy that has a lot of study to back up its claims that it's beneficial. And that's with water berths. Oh, interesting. I've heard a lot of talk about water births. And I wonder if it's recommended. I'd assumed that this was some hippie stuff until we ended up actually doing a home birth like a couple of hippies ourselves.

And we had a water tank the first time, but I mean the water really hot kind of. And Jen was like, nope, I'm just going to launch Jaden into the world while standing up next to the shower because she's super tough. And the second time, Juniper was born into the bathtub. And she, yeah, she took a little swim in there before coming into the world. And the bathtub looked like a murder scene after that. It was kind of horrific in addition to being one of the best moments in my life. Yeah, birth and death are gross, for sure.

They can be, yeah. The thing is, though, I mean, you guys were onto something. Labor pain scores are significantly higher in control groups that have traditional births when compared to groups that use immersion baths during labor. So soaking in water is an alternative form of pain relief during labor. births show that they have more even contractions, they have a less painful delivery, and there's quicker healing and recovering post-delivery than with traditional births, even people who are just using like oxycotton or epidurals.

Wow. The thing that's interesting that you said with you guys is you made the water too hot, and the studies show that it's cold, not warm or hot water, that is shown to produce those effects. It doesn't seem like the water therapy affects the length of labor. or the moments after delivery, but the baby like yours does get to take a little neonatal swim and mom's in a little less pain. So score one there for hydrotherapy.

Yeah, I just found it interesting. The whole birth thing, it's probably a whole other episode. That was just a fascinating couple of experiments, if you can call it that. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely something to it for sure. And the most impressive hydrotherapy hypothesis claims that daily brief cold water immersions over many, many months might enhance anti-tumor immunity and improve non-limphoid cancer survival rate. Oh, wow. I mean, it's incredible.

So more studies are definitely required to warrant this hypothesis for immunotherapy development for some cancers. But I was so excited when I came across this research that I tried to find where to donate some money. So this moves along. But it turns out medical research is a really confusing place to throw your money into it. No kidding. That's super incredible, and I hope that's actually real. Maybe I should dig out the plants from my cold plunge, because if you can stave off cancer by jumping in there for, I don't know, whatever, it says brief immersions. I guess hopefully that's just a couple of minutes because otherwise it's going to be miserable. I would do that every day. A lot of people, a lot of us would do it every single day. If you need two, three minutes of cold water treatment and you might not get tumors or cancers, that's a really big deal. This is why there needs to be medical research because who know? I mean, you want to be doing the right thing.

There's other findings that should be research too, showing that hydrotherapy has positive effects on the spine because of buoyancy, not because the water is soaking into your skin and healing muscles and joints, but because, as, you know, when we're in water, the pressure is taken off your joints and bones. There was a big study on 40 sessions of Aichi, which is Tai Chi done in the water. and every participant reported less pain, less fatigue, less depression, but they don't think water was some magic ingredient. It's just that they were moving and exercising. And that's great, but the thing is, this study involved people suffering from multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's, and the same results were found in the control group who did 40 sessions of Tai Chi on land. So the idea that a generally healthy person benefits from this is kind of unfounded. But it might be easier for people to move around in water.

It definitely is, but that's why it needs to be suggested by medical doctors when appropriate. It's suggested for people who are obese, and it's shown that six weeks of aqua jogging without any calorie restrictions in obese persons is associated with weight loss. water aerobics may be an excellent alternative to land exercise for people who have high risk of falling or have joint pain or whatever makes it hard for them to get moving. So the goal is for those patients to become more active and improve their quality of life, but it's not a cure-off for most people. And I think that's the dangers of commercial hydrotherapy. Like just more studies on hydrotherapy in daily life for regular people should. be done. Yeah, it seems like there should be research and it's not unreasonable for doctors to

encourage some hydrotherapy, even if it's like literally going for a swim because you have hip pain and you can't run anymore or whatever. Sure, sure. I mean, it depends why you're taking that swim. If it's your preferred or easiest way to exercise, great. But if you think you're curing a specific condition, there should be a lot of medical advisement to your hydrotherapy. So there's a problem with scam like quote unquote certified and licensed hydrotherapists that take people's money to treat medical conditions. Instead of paying these quack schools like colonic.net backslash training, which is an online hydrotherapy certification school. Yes, in air quotes. We should put money into research.

I know my dad had to rehab his knee and hip replacement by walking in the pool at the gym because it's a slight amount of resistance. And yeah, if he falls over, he's just sort of like lightly splashes into a shallow pool. What about going from hot to cold? Are there studies on this because I feel like there's something there, right? I felt it personally. A cold shower, it does something different than a hot shower. And I would jump into my cold plunge and then my hot tub and my cold plunge. I mean, I used to do that stuff.

I don't need a blazing hot sun or a literal ice bath, though, to feel the difference. Yeah. I mean, and it's definitely doing something. But all the studies I came across show that it's negative. Oh. It's, yeah. You're doing something. You're killing yourself, Jordan.

Congratulations. Yeah. You're not treating yourself well, even though we're kind of trained to think we are. I mean, it's been found that alternating from a hot sauna bath, followed by rapid cooling during cold water bath, that that increases health dangers for our heart. You feel that, too. I mean, these hazards aren't trivial, especially for anyone at risk or diagnosed with a cardiovascular disease or any medical condition, really. a cold or a hot shock can make you pass out. And if that happens in water, you could drown. Yeah. I mean, there's a phenomenon known as the after drop. As you get out of the water, your blood vessels can dilate, and depending what temperature you're entering or exiting, it's either chilled blood or heated blood from your extremities will begin to flow back to your core, and that drastically alters your body temperature. A lot of people have experience with this. Like several years ago, I was in a friend's 105 degree hot tub.

That's very hot. It was so hot. It was like probably not legal. maximum 10. That's as high as it went. Yeah. And it was a cold night. And we soaked in it for a while and then got out. I stepped into the cool bathroom shower to rinse off. And I woke up with paramedics around me.

Oh, no. So you fainted in the shower. Yeah, that's dangerous. Yeah. I mean, I was really lucky. I had a few stitches on my chin and my eye and a really traumatized husband who pulled me out of the shower. After a year, it's just made an awful noise. I'm sure.

And as you know, from the water birth, bleeding in water makes for an extra horrific scene. So like a little cut just looks like you're just bleeding from your entire. Oh, God. The poor husband and friends. Yeah, I ruined that weekend. After talking to the doctors, though, it was interesting because they determined it was definitely the temperature swing because I didn't have any split-second memory of that like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like I didn't slip.

Yeah. I just passed out and fell. God, you're so lucky. People don't know what risks they are taking in hot or cold tubs. For me, like I said, I used to love going from the cold plunge of the hot tub and back again, but one time I got out of the hot tub and I just felt everything spin. And at the time, I had this ghetto fabulous inflatable hot tub because I wasn't sure if I wanted to buy a real one. And by the way, I highly recommend it. It's like a couple hundred bucks off of Amazon and it requires a little more maintenance and it's inflatable like a giant kitty pool. But I fell. And since the side

were basically super strength kitty pool inflated walls, I just kind of bounced in a weird way and caught my bearings before going into the water. And I could have died, right? If I'd passed out in a regular hot tub standing up and smashed my head, or if I'd been out for longer and I'd actually gone under the water

and stayed there, that's a crappy way to go. Absolutely. So that kind of quickly put a stop to my hot, cold, air quotes, therapy nonsense. So scary. So scary. It put an end of that crap pretty quickly. And it was one of the first inspiration

for this skeptical Sunday topic in the first place because I was like, wait a minute, I'm not the only one who does this. Is this even helping me or am I just waiting to kill myself by accident? And I don't know about you, but after I had that accident, too, it's like so many people have stories like that. I mean, it's terrifying. Although it is adorable to think of you and a big boy kiddie. So that's cute. But passing out is one danger. Extreme temperature change can cause heart attacks. It can just make you confused. All of that. can lead to drowning. We don't know what we are doing when we convince ourselves these soaks and extremes are necessary for our health. You know, studies aren't done in healthy people, so we misinterpret evidence from things like taking children who suffer from chronic asthmatic bronchitis. We soak their feet in cold water, and this improves the ease of breathing and reduces bronchial symptoms, but when that water is hot, it worsens their condition. How do we know as a regular

person if we should be in hot or cold? Ten minutes of immersion in whirlpools, that produces like an increase in your pulse and your finger temperature, and that can be associated with feelings of well-being in people who suffer from clinical depression and anxiety. Doesn't mean we should just be self-medicating that way. So water has a powerful effect over us, but the regular person should not be using it as a healing power. Yeah, my personal experience makes me believe it's so good for us when it isn't mixed with pseudoscience malarkey, like my hot, cold thing that almost killed me.

I don't have any credible research to back up my personal experience. I just wish I knew when it was causing harm, aside from when I pass out and almost drown. Like, that part's obvious. I know. I mean, the best advice is use hydrotherapy at your own risk. My husband and I go to a Korean spa in our neighborhood sometimes, and he's experienced a similar thing like you

with his vision tunneling and confusion when he went from hot to cold. I mean, he didn't pass out, but he freaked himself out enough to use water temperature carefully, although he likes the danger, I guess. Yeah, he likes living on the edge. So you go to the spa, why?

I mean, aside from health, is it the vanity for steams and soaks? It affects our eyes, skin, and hair, too, right? I think I feel smoother after a steam or a soak, but now I'm not sure. Yeah, sure. it's just dead skin coming off, which you can do with a dry brush too. It's not just the water doing that. You can get that effect from things other than water. Hot saunas and steams, they're good

for our circulation because it does increase heart rate. Like any increased circulation is good for your skin, not magical water vapor or whatever being soaked up by your skin like a paper towel, you know, anything that increases our circulation is good for our skin. Okay, so a steam and a jog are similar for skin and my skin's not absorbing the minerals in the water or whatever anyway. Yeah, I mean, well, the big difference is when the water's infused with different minerals. Okay, never mind. Yeah, like that you can't create with other activities. When it's just plain water, there's nothing soaking in.

When there's minerals in the water, though, it definitely does enter your body. There's actually a place in Northern California called Wilbur Hot Springs, and they boast one of the highest lithium contents in their water. And it's true. Lithium is a mood stabilizer and soaking in those waters like seems to slow down time and ring a tsunami of calm and everyone there. But there's no reason to believe it's curing any specific ailment or a disease. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's good time. I love water. I feel so relaxed when I go to a hot spring or to a spa or go out surfing, but I do think a lot of it has to do with disconnecting. Yeah. We can't take our phones to catch a wave. We can't take our phones into the sauna. That hot spring up north, it's mandatory

silence where the water is. So you're doing other things to calm you down. I see. So it's kind of a mixed wet bag. Oh yeah. I mean, the debate over hydrotherapy, it just reveals a plethora of advantage for certain conditions. It can help some athletic training. It definitely helps child birth. But the fact that it is, aside from like colonics or weird drinks, that it's non-invasive, it's pretty accessible to everyone with plumbing. It seems like we should be exploring how it can aid in our overall well-being. You know, it's essential to acknowledge the risks, though, that are associated with hydrotherapy. Improper use or inadequate supervision can lead to injuries, particularly in people with certain medical conditions.

And some hydrotherapy, I found, it's just quackery. Sure. But ultimately, the decision to utilize hydrotherapy should be made on a case-by-case basis, considering the individual needs, the preferences, and strict medical guidance. By weighing its benefits against potential risks and ensuring that supervision, hydrotherapy can serve as a valuable adjunct to conventional treatments. we just need more studies. Yeah, especially that anti-tumor thing was exciting.

We got to splash some money into hydrotherapy research. Thanks, Jessica, very refreshing conversation. But I guess it would have been more refreshing if it had vitamins and electrolytes, am I right? You don't need those. Here's a trailer of an episode I think you might enjoy. I remember my first open mic. Like, dude, it just felt like I'm a comedian. I can call in sick to my day job.

And that's why I'm like, okay, that's missing 30 years later. I got to get out before I hate it. Everybody forgets to get out before you hate it. That's interesting. Well, I've gotten out of every job and career, actually, and marriage before I hated what I was doing. So that's why my stuff can be amicable leaving, not this angry craziness that most divorces or most life changes have. I don't go kicking and screaming. I go, you know what?

I'm going to take a hint. go. I don't think it's a well, because I don't think it's like an external well. Like, it's not like, oh, tickets are falling off and the press is mean to me or whatever. It's like what inside me, it's that quiet. It's that listening to what's in there. So gut is always good. It's the shit we pile on top of it to cover it up. Yeah. It's basically dissolving limiting beliefs. I mean, basically, if at the end of the day, one person who comes to you can say, I'm scared to move forward and you figure out why. Because the two basic limiting beliefs we all know is worthiness.

I'm not enough. And I'm going to die alone or I'm not loved. That's basically everything comes down. My friend Vicki, who loves you, calls it the six degrees of worthiness. Any fear that comes up comes down to one of those things. Happy, cozy, cute. That's how I want my life to be. For more with comedy superstar Lisa Lampinelli and why she left when she got to the top of

the game, check out episode 183 on the Jordan Harbinger. show. Thank you all for listening. Topic, suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. Show notes over at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her substack between the lines. We'll link to that in the show notes. This show has created an association with Podcast 1. team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own. And I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. I'm certainly not a doctor. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Also, we may get a few things wrong here and there, especially on skeptical Sunday. I know someone's going to be like, you do need electrolytes, but not in your water. If you think we really drop the ball on something, definitely let us know. We're usually pretty receptive to that. And y'all know how to reach me, Jordan atjurbinger.com. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful,

please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. Maybe somebody who's considering spending five or six grand on a cold plunge. Maybe they can just get a hot tub instead. It's a lot more comfortable. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show

so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast. If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what, that actually happened? You got to subscribe to what was that.

like it's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives and they're not just giving you the highlights, they're walking you through it from the inside as a person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing, do you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like.

Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast.

focused format, Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow

light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.