The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1049: Friend Was a Creeper But You're Not His Keeper | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

A friend's arrest for a dark crime has you shaken. Can you protect your career and sanity from association with this monster? Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday: How did "The Thing" that Soviets used to spy on Americans during the Cold War (as described in episode 1027: Jonna Mendez | A Woman’s Life in the CIA) actually work? Some of our science-minded listeners have written in with fascinating answers! Your close friend was arrested for possessing and distributing child abuse material, leaving you and your friend group in shock. You're grappling with feelings of betrayal, questioning your judgment, and worrying about potential impacts on your career as a preschool teacher. What steps can you take to cope with this crisis and safeguard your professional reputation? As the new Director of Nursing Care, you're tasked with improving staff performance after years of lax management. You find yourself constantly disciplining employees and dealing with petty complaints, feeling more like a punitive boss than a supportive leader. How can you maintain positivity while addressing these challenges? Your wife's family is fraught with tension due to her sisters' problematic marriages, including allegations of abuse and sexual assault. Fresh to the family, you're not sure where you fit into its overall structure yet. Can you help mend family bonds or should you keep your distance? You're a Jewish doctor in a relationship with a Catholic woman, struggling to balance your religious practices with your desire to be with her. After a breakup and reconciliation, you discover she's still in contact with her ex. How do you address this without compromising your values or losing her? Recommendation of the Week: Love on the Spectrum As the founding CEO of a startup, you sacrificed relationships and recreation to build the company. Just as things were going well, you were replaced by the shareholders and are now owed a significant sum. How can you reclaim your professional path while rediscovering personal fulfillment? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram... See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my dumpster firefighter in arms, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from money laundering experts, Russian spies, drug traffickers, astronauts, war correspondence, neuroscientists. This week, we had Sean Atwood. This guy, man, he formed a humongous drug ring in the United States, came from England,

forms a massive drug ring, goes to prison, the worst prison in America, actually, at least one of them, run by Sheriff Joe Arpaio, this infamous law enforcement character in the state of Arizona. His stories were, yeah, blood-curdling, I guess. It's not safe for work episodes. Definitely worth a listen, an insight into something that, well, hopefully you'll just never have to go through or even see. We also had a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on hydrotherapy, so anything having to do with water. On Fridays, though, we share stories, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, occasionally, anyway, and step into our role as the first responders of the feelings world. Before we dive in today, after my interview with John Mendes came out,

a few of you wrote in answering my question about the thing. So if you haven't heard that episode yet, check it out. Johnna is fascinating. The whole conversation is basically the greatest hits of the Soviet-era CIA. That was episode 1027. But in the interview, Johnna mentioned this beautiful, hand-carved wooden American Eagle seal that was presented to the American ambassador in Moscow by a bunch of Russian school kids in the 1950s. So the ambassador loved it, hung it in his office for 10 years or something. And long story short, it turns out it was some kind of audio bug and had been capturing conversations for 10 years. And when the CIA's audio folks opened it up, they saw it was just a little time.

tiny tuning fork, just a long piece of metal, no moving parts. And for a long time, the CIA just called it The Thing. And it is still called that in the International Spy Museum where you can go and see it. That is run by a friend of mine, actually. So on the episode, we were trying to figure out how that thing actually worked. She didn't know. A bunch of you wrote in with answers. So I just wanted to quickly nerd out on that and share it with you guys because, like, how can this thing be a sophisticated spy tool? And God, who knows what actually was disclosed? It's just crazy. So one of our listeners, Martin, he told us that The Thing was invented by Leon Theraman, this guy who invented a musical instrument that's also named after him. And the control for that

instrument is by moving your hands close to radio frequency antennas. And that changes the frequency of the radio waves, which in turn changes the note being played or the volume. And apparently the Thing uses similar principles. Martin explained that the Thing also has a radio antenna on it. So the antenna receives radio waves from a Soviet transmitter next door. It's loaded by a capacitor. And basically, I'm summarizing a ton of physics that largely go over my head, by the way. The antenna and the capacitor then form a resonant circuit that is tuned to the frequency of the radio waves from next door. So it very efficiently reflects back the radio waves of the correct frequency. So apparently, the Soviets received the reflected signal and they could detect

changes in amplitude that were caused by sound. And from there, they could recover the speech of what was being said in the office. So basically, someone talks, it vibrates this little tuning fork, that then gets zapped with microwaves from the Soviets and turns into an AM radio kind of thing. And they can just pick up those vibrations and then change them back into speech. And another listener, Steve, kind of explained that in plain language, just like I did. And he also noted that the power from that all comes from the transmission source outside the room. So the thing literally didn't need any batteries, nothing. Finally, another listener, Forrest told us that a brilliant engineer named Michael Osman, he explained how it works in a DefCon talk. DefCon is like a hacker

conference I've spoken there a few times. The thing is basically a passive microphone that gets blasted with electromagnetic energy radio waves to power on the device. So it's really amazing. Apparently, GIs during the war, the Second World War, they would create foxhole radios from components they had just around to listen to stations in the area, which is so fascinating and definitely scratched a taking apart radios and trying to figure out how they work, itch that I still have to this day. When I was a kid, I used to do that all the time. Thank you all for filling in some gaps here. Amazing how creative spycraft can get, especially back then when things were still relatively low-tech. All right, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Good day, Jordan and Gabe. Good day. I'm a 25-year-old male, and recently, while getting coffee with one of my close friends, a guy named Ben, we talked about. one of our other friends, let's call him Rob, who's had a hard time. I've been very close friends with Rob for years, and we had always shared ambitions about our lives. Four years ago, Rob had a major spine operation to correct some back issues, and many of us didn't think he was going to make it. Luckily, the surgery was a success. Rob was almost 30 at the time, and he wanted to use the time after a surgery to upskill into a new field through an online course. This six-month online course ended up taking him three years. During those years, he struggled with depression,

going months on end with no contact, always telling us he was almost finished with his course. He ran out of support payments about 10 to 12 months after the surgery, then struggled to live off of government payments and relied more and more on some of us to support him financially. Ben had lent him almost $10,000 by that point. Unfortunately, Rob had become slightly distant, coming to fewer events because he couldn't afford to go out. Our friend group discussed with him that we couldn't always pay his way if we went for dinner, coffee, or drinks. We offered to do more affordable activities, and many of us offered to help him with trips to job interviews, which were far and few between.

I'm a personal trainer as a hobby, and I trained him for free to keep him from falling into another depression, hoping he would find his feet. Eventually, Rob applied for a health-related job after finally finishing his qualification as a pathologist. Wow, those are great gifts to a friend going through a tough time. Sometimes money is what we need, but what I like about gifts like these is they're empowering him to take care of himself in a way that also feels fair and sustainable to you guys. And I love that. That's when Ben abruptly said that there was something serious we needed to talk about.

Here we go. Barely holding back tears, he told me that Rob had been arrested. Ben couldn't pull it together enough to tell me why and just said to look up his name. I did. And the headline of the article was something along the lines of, male 30 arrested for possessing and distributing child abuse material and beastiality material after a three-month extensive search by a police strike force. So is it beastiality or bestiality? I always say bestiality. You say bestiality? You always say it whenever you're talking about this.

All this is come up a lot. I'd say once twice a week at least. I mean bestiality. That's like It's B-E-S-T, I-A-L-T-W-E-W-E-W-W-W. Well, how do I know that? Anyway. So what a thing is. to read about somebody that you're close with. God, that must have been brutal. Get out your hose, Gabe. I think we have a five-alarm dumpster fire on our hands. This is insane. Why did that sound vaguely sexual? It did. And I, that's why I made a pause and I still went for it. And I kind of regret it. It just as soon as I came, as soon as I came out of my mouth, the words. Yeah, not the, uh, I got you. I'm going to stop talking. Now, you know what I mean? This is very awkward. Continue, please. I went numb. I bet. Ben and I sat

there for the next two hours reading the article, looking at the photos of Rob in total disbelief. Over the next two days, I traveled to see the other two friends in our group to break the news, as it was too hard for Ben. Since then, I can't stop thinking about all the time I had known Rob, and how the person I thought I knew was probably living a big lie, and deceiving me and all of his friends and loved ones. We all had the same reaction. We knew Rob was a bit weird, but never thought he would engage in such gross acts. A few days on, I'm still processing. continuously checking in on my other friends and making sure we're all okay. We have so many questions like, was he caught up in some shady stuff because he was vulnerable? Had he been doing it for years? Was he

participating in these acts? All of it makes me ill. What makes it more sickening for me is that I've been a preschool teacher for seven years well before I met Rob, and I take pride in my work. I wonder if he only befriended me because of my job. I never invited him to my school, and he never asked questions that would make me think there was anything nefarious going on. But I worry this may have an impact on my job as I'm a male teacher and many of my other friends have jobs in the public sector. Being in such close proximity to a case like this may cause employers to get cold feet. Okay, I just want to jump in and address this now. I totally get why learning all of this is throwing you for a loop, making you question every aspect of your relationship

with him. That is only normal. But based on what you've shared, I don't get the sense that Rob befriended you to somehow get access to the students you work with. You're not saying he visited your school a bunch. You're not saying you asked you weird questions about the kids. So I'm not sure that there's a connection here. As for whether this would compromise your career, I mean, maybe it's possible, but I just don't know how many people are going to connect these dots. Or if they did, that they'd automatically hold them against you. And if they did, you could tell a very compelling story about what a shock it was for you to learn that your friend had this whole secret life that you vehemently disapprove of that shook you to your core. You could literally say, it broke my heart to learn about

all this. And sadly, Rob and I are no longer friends. So while I totally get this fear, I would not try to put too much stock in it. Agreed. So he goes on, I've also had discussions with my partner and friends about what happens if Rob is not found guilty and is released. What if he tries to rekindle things with us all? My partner has made it clear and for good reason that if we were to have kids and he were to be free, he wouldn't be allowed near them.

I agree with her. So do I. But I'm also second guessing everything I've ever known about this man and feel a mix of anger and sadness about the loss of what I thought was one of the best friends I ever had. and having the whole script turned upside down. I don't think I could ever be friends with this person again, but I'm worried he may try to reach out if his case goes to trial. How do I go about unpacking all of this?

How can I work through the guilt that maybe I wasn't there for him in a time of need where he fell into this dark place? And how can I work through the idea that maybe he only befriended me because of my line of work? Signed, working through my dejection and this feeling of infection over my friend's weird predilection. Oh boy, what a story. Well, first of all, I'm very sorry that Rob struggled with these impulses.

I'm sorry they probably made his life very painful and stressful, and they probably derailed his life and most important for you. They left you with these very difficult feelings and questions. Like I said, it is super hard to integrate a piece of information like this about a close friend. You and your buddies are in the middle of a huge shift. You're all processing these intense feelings. You're all mourning the Rob you knew, the investments you guys made in him, the hopes you had for him turning his life around.

It's just very painful. So I already answered your last question. I'm just not sure Rob befriended you for your line of work. Is it possible he did? Sure, do you know that? No. But I'm not sure what good it'll do to obsess over that because you'll probably never know. And if he did, well, be grateful you never invited him to your school, I guess. I wonder if what he might actually be saying is, if he did befriend me because of my job, what might that say about me? Yeah, I could see that. So what he's actually asking is, how can I work through my feelings about my judgment or my vulnerability to this guy if he did, in fact, target our friend here? Exactly, or his shame about potentially being targeted in that way by anyone. So I get that, but my answer still stands. I'm not sure he was targeted. And if he was, he was targeted by somebody who was very good at compartmentalizing a very dark part of his personality. So again, totally fair to wonder how you might have missed something or been too trusting,

but also you didn't have all the information and this guy was the lockbox. My strong feeling is that your mind is running wild here and you're imagining worst case scenarios that he only got close to you to find new victims, and that you're now tainted by association. So I guess my advice there is. I'd take a look at these anxieties, see if they're totally warranted. You might be catastrophizing a tiny bit

and also making this about you when really this is entirely about Rob and his very sad predilection. Agreed completely. Now, about your other question how to work through the guilt that you were not there for Rob when he fell into this dark place,

it's interesting. That is not what I'm hearing from your letter at all. What I'm hearing is that you and your friends were extremely generous with him the last few years between the surgery and this prolonged job hunt and the financial support. I mean, even when you guys said to him,

we can't afford to pay your way every time, you still offered to do other activities together, you still offered him your time, your expertise, your personal training, you gave him your energy, your accountability, your friendship, so he didn't slip back into depression. And that whole time, Rob was hiding this very disturbing compulsion from you. So I'm curious to know where this guilt comes from.

Why do you feel so responsible to this person who had some very real demons, and who, you worry, even possibly targeted you to continue feeding them somehow. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your compassion for him, your grace, your devotion, they're wonderful. But why they tip over into guilt when you went above and beyond in supporting this guy. And when his own choices, by the way, have landed him in this position, that's something for you to sit with.

I'm not judging it. I think you can tell I don't think the guilt is entirely warranted, but that doesn't mean it doesn't say something interesting about you, what you feel you owe people. and also, it sounds to me, a sense of responsibility you feel for making sure that everyone turns out all right. Like you said, you trained Rob for free to keep him from falling into another depression. You hoped he would find his feet. You're the one who went around breaking the news to all of your friends because Ben couldn't bring himself to do it. So you had those tough conversations. You were the grown-up. And now you're wondering if you could have done more for Rob because you think it might have

prevented him from becoming depressed and looking at CSAM and animal abuse content. But there is no evidence that it would have. There's no evidence that Rob wasn't consuming this stuff before you guys met. In fact, you seemed to worry that he was. And even if you could have stopped him somehow, which, again, you couldn't, that is not your job, my dude. That's exactly right. It's interesting. Once again, he's making it about himself. Did Rob target me? Is he now going to compromise my career? What more could I have done to help him? I'm sort of just seen in this theme here. So I wonder if he's looking for things he can control on his side of the equation, whether it's being a harder target in the future or doing damage control in his career or fantasizing about how

he could have saved Rob because those things, as stressful and unlikely as they are, might give him some measure of control, whereas a huge part of his grief about Rob is confronting just how out of control he really is here. Bingo, yeah, that makes total sense. So when you ask how to unpack all of this, that would be my answer. Be in touch with all of it, your sadness, your anger, you're disgust, your regret, and your lack of control and what that lack of control brings up for you. More anger and more fear, I would guess, and maybe a new awareness of how mysterious and frankly unpredictable human beings can be, which can be terrifying. There might be a part of you that gets especially activated by being out of control, specifically by being exposed to people in

situations that are dark and chaotic. Your relationship with Rob is pushing up against that, and there's very little you can do about it. Except, of course, to just surrender to that chaos and get a little bit friendlier with it. I think that's probably the only way to find the piece you're looking for. And we're right back to where we started. He's morning.

Right. And morning is messy. And there's no rubric or system or timeline to it. It's just about getting in touch with all these different pieces, which I think he's already doing quite well. And by the way, if you really allow yourself to do that work, and this is something I might consider doing

with your friend group as well, you'll be in a much better position to know how to handle things with Rob if he ever reaches out again. We can't tell you whether to cut him off or support him. I don't know what's in Rob's mind and heart right now, whether he's capable of changing, what steps he might be taken to get better,

whether he deserves more support and another chance. Those are all things I would want to know before deciding whether to stay connected to him. What I do know is that you can't make the best decision for yourself without grieving and taking stock of all of this. So that's your main job right now. Hang in there, bud. We're sending you and your friends a big hug,

and we're wishing you all the best. Gabe, I'm pretty proud of myself for not making all the jokes I was thinking about making during this particular letter. That sound you hear is everyone unsubscribing from this podcast. Everyone with taste unsubscribing from this podcast. And I was just like, oh, I'm going to hold my tongue. You got a good one for us on the ad break, though? You know what you can legally exploit on the internet?

The deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show are all in one searchable, clickable place. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals, please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I recently started an amazing new role

as a director of nursing care for a long-term care home here in Canada. I love this job. This is the first time that I truly feel supported to actually manage and lead staff, making changes that the team recognizes are needed. In fact, I'm thanked for being willing to do it. Awesome. That's a great feeling to be empowered and appreciated. Well done. We're under a lot of government regulations, so it's vital that most interactions are completed in a regulated way. The job also needs a high level of customer service since we're assisting people who are sick and or have memory challenges, physical challenges, and families with heightened emotions. I've been told that the previous people in my role didn't really address issues with performance, so the staff have become used to getting away with

a lot and working at subpar performance. The team knows that it'll be a tough slog to write the ship, but we're committed to doing it. I know that staff members will always need counseling and discipline around performance issues. This is just part of my role, and it won't change. But right now, I feel like all I'm doing is auditing, investigating, and developing education and discipline for acts that I consider violations of common sense, basic job performance, and or basic adult responsibilities, just stupid stuff. There are also so many petty complaints between staff members. I feel like I'm surrounded by a cloud of negativity, despite being fully supported by the amazing management team. The other day, I had to handle three formal disciplines and several informal ones, all in response

to different situations. I don't take it personally or internalize it, but it's tough when all that gets brought to me is people doing things incorrectly. I want to be a supportive leader, not a punitive boss. How do I avoid being dragged down when faced with all of this? How does one find joy and positivity during these periods, signed, tired of being the sheriff and getting rid of errors when what I really want to take care of is beginning a new era. Really good question. First off, congrats on landing what sounds like a rewarding role with an awesome team. It's clear you're passionate about the work, and that's no small thing, especially in a

pretty challenging field. You're already making waves by stepping up and leaning into these conflicts where other people in your role, I guess, avoided them. So kudos to you. You're a leader. That said, I totally understand why cleaning up these messes is wearing you down. You want to be forward-thinking, proactive, high-value, not the sheriff. So my first thought is, you say you want to be a supportive leader, and I'm curious to know what that means to you,

because right now, being supportive doesn't just mean being a cheerleader. It sounds like it also means helping your team develop the standards and attitudes that they need to succeed. And that might include some tough love, holding people accountable, slapping people's wrists from time to time. It's not a glamorous part of leadership, but sometimes it's essential, especially in the beginning when what you're really doing is changing the culture. but if you want to make these conversations more valuable than just, you know, dig it into what Cynthia said to Mike when he stole her sandwich from the fridge or whatever, I would try to elevate these chats.

So, for example, let's say you got to ding someone for, I don't know, snapping at a colleague in front of a patient's family. You could go, hey, that's not professional. That needs to stop. I got to write you up for causing a scene in the workplace. Or you could go, hey, the other day when things got tense in front of that patient's family, what was going on for you? What led to that exchange?

And then spend a few minutes trying to help the employee figure out why they behaved that way and making them feel understood. Then you could say something like, so here's the thing. Responding in that way, that's not how I want us to treat each other and show up around here. Not anymore. I know the job is stressful. I know it can grate on you. But I'm going to ask you to find other ways of dealing with the stress and definitely not to air that stuff in front of patients and their families. Because picture it from their perspective. Imagine you come here to visit your mom and then two nurses start arguing in front of you. You can imagine what impression that would leave you with. It's awkward.

It's uncomfortable. It might make people wonder if their loved one is even in the right place, if they're surrounded by the best people. Part of my vision here is to create a workplace that is supportive, respectful, managed to regulation. It's okay to have a rough day. It's not okay to take that out on a colleague and definitely not in front of our patients. So next time that happens, I expect you to try things a different way and I know will be

great. Look, that's an example. If you approach things like that, you're going to be elevating these disciplinary chats or these quote unquote petty conversations into something more. much more meaningful and effective. You know, it's a really good point because really they're not petty. If a nurse is openly complaining about another employee or if a nurse is, I don't know, being sloppy with a patient's chart or whatever it is, these small things represent big things.

They represent values, standards, a whole way of working. Your job as a leader is to constantly move between the small and the big, right, to find the meaning in the details. And apparently to inspire staff to lead with those values too. So if you can do that, I have a feeling that over time you'll have to be. to discipline your staff less and less, because hopefully they will start leading themselves. And that is actually the best version of leadership. And by the way, this is also how you're going to get to that part of the job that does bring

you joy faster, which I assume is creating a high functioning workplace, fraying up your time to focus on the fulfilling stuff, focusing on patients, stuff like that. But I also don't know if you need to wait to start doing those parts of the job you love. You might also need to get a little more disciplined about your time, make sure you're not getting lost in the weeds of the disciplinary stuff, maybe block out an hour or two every morning or every evening to do strategic stuff, to think about the future. Maybe you limit your sheriff time to a couple hours a day and you just get to the heart of the matter really quickly. Maybe you delegate some of that stuff more. I don't know. Also, I know she's saying that the sheriff stuff is draining and she really wants to get to

the joyful leadership stuff, but I also wonder if maybe the sheriff stuff is on some level tempting for her. maybe she shines there, even if she really resents having to do it. It might be easier to wrap her head around, and the strategic, you know, leadership, forward thinking stuff is more daunting? So on some level, is she maybe gravitating to the more rote, procedural, disciplinary stuff because she has some resistance around the higher value stuff, just something to consider. Yeah, I could see that. It's like when you spend three hours doing your expenses, even though you're not filing taxes

for the next six months instead of finishing the big deck that you need to hand in tomorrow. Voice of Experience over here, which again, being disciplined, being thoughtful, leaning into the resistance, those are big parts of being a leader too. How and where you spend your time is just, it's everything. As for not getting bogged down by this stuff, not internalizing the negativity, that's where your internal boundaries are going to be super important. There's always going to be negative stuff to deal with that work. Part of your job is not letting it infect you too much. So now it's okay to take a step back when you need to delegate wherever possible, go home and leave things at work. But most importantly, keep your eye on the bigger

picture here. And remember that every step, no matter how small, is progress toward your vision. There are two sides of the same coin. Keep up the great work. Sounds like you're crushing it. I know that you're going to make a real impact on this place. Oh, by the way, I have a book recommendation for you. The book is called It's Your Ship by Captain Michael Abershaw. And he was amazing. That's episode 231. It's a management book, but it's about, and I'm going off memory here, but it's about he got onto this boat that was managed by just this egotistical, horrible guy and the place was totally dysfunctional in the Navy. It was just a total crappy situation. And this guy goes in there and radically changes the management style to the point where I think

they were voted like, or they won, you know, top ship, whatever it is in the Navy, like two years in a row. And they used to be the worst. So it was just a massive 180. And it sounds like that's kind of what you're doing in your organization. So definitely check out episode 231 and then maybe that book, grab that book afterwards. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your bosses don't want to listen to your killer ideas, or you want to know how to best support your friend who snapped and murdered his boss years ago. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter We Bit Wiser. It is a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered right to your inbox every week. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at Jordanharbinger.com slash news. Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my wife and I have been married for just over a year and a half now, and while we have a healthy relationship, our relations with her side of the family have proven to be rather difficult. Dahlia, the second oldest sister, left their home with her then-boyfriend before I was in the picture. It was dramatic,

and there were possible violent threats by the boyfriend towards her family. Dahlia has since married him, despite the fact that he got kicked out of the military, has lost multiple jobs, and seems to be freeloading off of her. We also think there might be some emotional or physical abuse going on, but we have trouble finding proof because Dalia tries her best to hide things involving her husband. I can't help but think that sometimes I'm enabling her and her husband when they find themselves in a spot of trouble. Emily, the second youngest sister, married her high school sweetheart after they graduated. Things were going well until about two years ago when my wife's youngest sister, Abby, told her mom that Emily's husband had sexually assaulted her when she was 18. Wow. Oh my God. Just when I thought the dumpster fires were out. I mean, this is Feedback Friday. Better get that hose out, Papa. Yeah, now I hear that does sound creepy. Yeah, that does sound creepy. My bad. Now we're both in trouble.

Emily's husband admitted to my father-in-law what he had done when it all came out. But then, then, you know, quickly walked everything back, and to this day denies it ever happened. Oh my God. Abby's trauma has made it difficult for her to talk about the incident, and she refuses to seek therapy because it's, quote, unquote, too hard to relive. Oh, that is so sad. Now we're lucky if Emily's husband even talks to us, and everyone's relationship with both him and Emily has grown distant.

I mean, call me crazy, but not being super close with the rapist in the family or the sexual predator, whatever the details were. I mean, not a huge loss, in my opinion. But losing Emily as a result, I mean, yeah, that's definitely said. Two sisters here are pulling away from the family largely to protect their husbands. Just an interesting theme. Pulling away or maybe being pulled away? Hard to say?

Yeah, who knows what's happening behind the scenes. So the letter goes on, to make matters worse, Emily and her husband are the only ones in the family with kids. So lots of the family are missing the early years of our nephew's lives, and that hurts us the most. All of this has made it challenging for me to come into the family, since both guys set a low-standard for men in the family when my wife and I started dating, I feel like I started in the negative with my in-laws. Now that we're married, that sentiment has worn off to a certain extent. I've been able to show that I'm different from the other two guys, but some persists. Okay, I mean, why these parents are going, let's see what shenanigans this guy pulls as opposed to, hmm, I wonder why we raised two

daughters who chose abusive men. It's a little hard for me to wrap my head around, but I hear you. The deck is stacked against you. I grew up in a family where strong bonds between family members were important and it feels like I'm walking in a minefield or playing politics. How do we wade through all the drama? Is there a way for us to help in mending relationships in the family? Or is it better to just keep our distance until we're required to participate? Signed asking for a chance when my in-laws look askance and trying to tap dance around this unfortunate circumstance that developed far in advance. Oh man, what a family to walk into. This is super intense stuff and very, very said, obviously my heart goes out to Abby the most here. To be sexually assaulted by your own

brother-in-law, that is just awful. Awful. The fact that this dude admitted to it, then walked it back, and now denies it ever happened. Look, we don't have all the facts, but that sounds dodgy as hell. It sounds like he did it and then just didn't want to deal with the fallout. So this has obviously left Emily very shaken. She can't even talk about it. It caused a lot of tension in this family. I mean, that's awful. I'm also worried about Dahlia, of course, the fact that she might be experiencing abuse and that she's working so hard to hide things, which is pretty textbook. It just makes me super sad. It really makes me wonder what happened to Dahlia growing up. Well, exactly. Why did she choose this guy? Why is she staying with him? What kind of childhood did

she have? Look, let me put it this way. If I smack Jen across the face, she would leave me immediately because that's just not part of the pattern. But I feel like if you grow up with it, you start making excuses for it and stuff. So something happened here. And that's kind of why I'm angry with these in-laws for narrowing their eyes at our friend here. It's like, you raise these. women. They chose these husbands. Why are you making the one normal loving dude in the family feel unwelcome? Yeah. You should be celebrating this guy if he's so different. Truly. But they probably don't want to ask themselves that question, so they're projecting. Yeah, they might be projecting or they might just be assuming that he's going to be like every other guy who's walked through their front door, sat at the

table with him. Anyway, I know that you want to do the right thing for your wife and her family. It's clear you care deeply about these sisters. That's really sweet. But you're also dealing with abuse, assault, strained relationships, trauma, a lot of unspoken stuff that frankly has nothing to do with you. So look, all of this is really complicated, but my take on your questions is pretty simple. I think you need to take a step back, realize how much of this has nothing to do with you, and accept the limit of your influence here. You love your wife. I'm sure you love her family too, but you can't change the facts.

You can't make Dahlia's husband not an abusive deadbeat. You can't change what Emily's husband almost certainly did to Abby. You can't make Emily stand up to him and confront him. You can't make your wife's parents see you differently, not overnight anyway. Now, you and your wife can be supportive, you can offer your help where appropriate for sure. But if things are going to change, both for these sisters individually and for the families a whole, they're going to need to confront some difficult things themselves. If Dalia comes to you guys for help, you can offer advice, resources, a plan to leave her marriage safely.

If Abby talks to you about the assault or how she's feeling, you can make it safe for her to talk to a therapist to seek out a support group to take care of herself however she needs. If Emily's like, I don't know what to do about Mike, I'm so sorry, I mean. miss you. Yes, obviously you welcome her back in. You help her work through what her husband did, decide whether she wants to stay with them, but they have to want to do those things. Also, these are your wife's sisters. She has more of a connection with them. The best thing you can do is keep showing up as a loving, caring, steady brother-in-law. I think your in-laws will continue to see that you're very different from these guys. You don't need to work too hard to convince them of that.

Sure, be thoughtful. Make an effort to connect with your wife's parents. Take her mom to lunch every once in a while, FaceTime with her dad, whatever it is. But I wouldn't launch a whole PR campaign. In fact, I'd kind of do the opposite. Just be yourself, focus on your wife. Trust that their opinion will evolve as they see you doing your thing. It might also be worth asking yourself whether you need them to see you a certain way. Yeah, fair point. Obviously, it would be wonderful if they didn't assume the worst about this guy. Sure. It's awesome to get on with your in-laws, but like, I don't know, does he need their approval? And if he does, why? Is there something about these parents, these potentially quite flawed parents, not giving him that approval that

activates something in him. If he doesn't make any progress with them, I think he either needs to release the expectation that they're going to be big fans of his, and or he needs to figure out why their skepticism is so distressing to him. Agreed. Look, he's already doing the most important thing, which is being a solid, thoughtful guy. If they can't see that, if they want to assume he's going to be as bad as Dallius Abusive Husband or Emily's predator partner, that's on them. So basically, I don't know if you need to wade through all the drama as much as stay out of it. And yes, it would be amazing if you could help men the relationships in this family, but that sounds like a Dahlia, Emily Abbey kind of job, and also a Dahlia's husband hitting the road or getting thrown in

jail kind of job. If this were me, I'd just keep my distance until you're required to participate or until you have enough trust and rapport built up with these people to insert yourself a little more. But honestly, the person I would focus on the most is Abby. She's the true victim here. I'm so sad and angry for her. I know it's awkward and hurtful, but man, this is a family that clearly does not know how to deal with some very dark stuff. And that's tragic, but it's their tragedy. You and your wife can build your own world, and that is the most important thing. Sending you, your wife, and her sisters, a huge hug. Good luck. And if being the least rapy son-in-law in the family doesn't work, try gifting your in-laws some of the amazing products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable. I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support the sponsors that support the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this podcast are at all in one searchable, clickable place. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. If you need a code, you can't find a code. You're not sure if the code works. Email me, Jordan atjurbaner.com. I'm happy to dig that up for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

Five years ago, while working at a hospital as a resident, I met someone at work. We got together, she initiated everything, and I went along with it because she was beautiful, smart, witty, and feisty. She also had a child who was three at the time, and I absolutely loved her, too. Then our religious differences became an issue. I'm Jewish and was more observant, and she was Catholic. Things like me keeping kosher and the Sabbath got in the way, even though I told her about them early on.

The one thing I didn't tell her up front because I didn't know how to bring it up was that I was a virgin and trying to save myself for marriage. Eventually, these differences came to a head and she broke up with me. It was awful. We spent two years apart during which time

I got a new job, not because of the situation with her. During our hiatus, she'd initiate mostly platonic conversations and I made it very clear that I still had feelings for her. She told me she had moved on and I found out she was dating somebody pretty much as soon as we broke up. They dated for two years, and then he started ignoring her out of the blue.

She confided in me, and then we started talking more regularly. Eventually, I came back to my former place of employment. Fast forward several months, and we started going out again. Things are a lot better between us, mostly because I've compromised on a lot of my practices and my religion. I do not like the way that makes me feel, but I also want her in my life. Sometimes affection is a little bit difficult to get from her, and I told her that I don't like that. Then, for a couple of weeks, I felt that something was off.

I did something I probably shouldn't have, and I saw on her phone that she was texting her ex. Although she did tell him that she was seeing someone, he was essentially begging her to talk things out, and she said, maybe, but I can't hurt the guy I'm with now the way you hurt me. She also sometimes says, I miss you to him, and once told him, I'll never like him like I loved you. That's painful data, but important data. Ah, that hurts, man. I don't want to be a control freak, but what am I supposed to do with all this information? Can I confront her about it?

Or should I just pretend nothing's wrong? Signed, ignore what I've seen to keep things clean, or act on what I've gleaned from my girlfriend's screen. Dude, my stomach literally hurts hearing this secondhand. I can only imagine how you felt reading that. What a gut punch. I don't even know you. and I'm having a physical reaction in the pit of my stomach to this. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

So you and this moment have been on a very interesting journey here. Something is clearly drawing you to each other, and some things are also obstacles to staying connected. So it's interesting. I'm getting a mixed picture here. On one hand, she's secretly texting her ex. She's saying, I miss you. She's saying, I'll never like him like I loved you.

This is worrisome. It doesn't bode well for you guys. On the other hand, she's not immediately running back to him. She's saying she won't hurt you the way he hurt her. So she's not being completely disrespectful or callous towards you. And there might be a world where you guys work through this stuff. So I hear you that you don't want to be controlling, but I think this is crucial information to confront, accept, and then decide what to do with. You no longer have the luxury, so to speak, of ignoring your intuition. You can't burry your head in the sand anymore. You can't tell a story about how the

relationship is going well. What I'm hearing is a woman who is torn between two people, who has some conflicts around her relationship, who knows, maybe around intimacy in general, as many of us do, and also a woman who might not have the courage or clarity to say to this guy, hey, I'm sorry, I'm with someone right now. I can't engage with you. Or to turn and say to you, I'm sorry, but I'm not clear about what I want, so I'm not sure we should stay together. So my questions for you are, what kind of relationship do you want to be in? How do you want to feel in your relationship? How do you want the other person to treat you? How do you want to talk through difficult feelings like this. How would you want your partner to place other men in her

life? I think you already know the answers deep down, but you probably need to sit with them on your own and get really clear with yourself. If you answer those honestly, I promise you'll know what to do. Completely agree, Jordan. I'm hearing all of that in this letter too. I'm also hearing a theme of hiding parts of himself and often ignoring his needs and his values to keep this relationship afloat. Yes, for sure, that's part of the problem. On their first go around, he said that there a big thing he didn't tell her because he didn't know how to bring it up that he was saving himself for marriage, right? Right. Pretty huge thing to hide from your partner. And of course, those differences and other ones came to a head and she broke up with him and I can understand why they might be

incompatible in certain key ways. But his hiding certain things to spare himself some discomfort and also to avoid driving her away, that obviously made it harder to bridge that gap. Right. It might be more the way they communicate or don't communicate as opposed to the differences between them. I mean, it certainly doesn't help. And then he said that things are a lot better between them this second time around, mostly because he's compromised on a lot of practices in his religion, right? Which he's free to change his views if that's what he wants. But the interesting thing about that line was, as he put it, I do not like the way that makes me feel. But I also want her in my life. Right. He's not going, my values or beliefs have evolved, so there's less friction between us. Or I've opened up and she's

opened up and we've met halfway so things are easier now. He's going, I've let go of something that was very important to me, and it does not make me feel good, but I'm doing it so that I don't lose her. Exactly. I mean, he's really contorting himself to stay connected to her. But in the process, he's losing himself. That is the real problem here. Yeah, that's right. And so the question then becomes, why are you losing yourself in order to hang on to this person? And what would it look like for you to be involved with this person while still staying connected to the aspects of you that are so important? Well, I'd imagine that's scary to him, right? Because he knows that she might not like that or it might put additional strain on their already fragile relationships. So he's walking

on eggshells, this guy. She might not like it. Okay. Then she's not for you. Or you guys have to work through that. But he also doesn't know that she wouldn't like that because he hasn't really tried. Well, except that he kind of does because that was part of what caused friction between them the first time around, right? Well, okay, good point. So maybe he's just willfully ignoring a real problem between them and hoping he can compromise to make it go away. Yes. But I have a have a feeling that he's compromised on a lot of things just as a matter of being in a relationship. He's hit parts of himself from the beginning. So he doesn't truly know how she would react to him saying, look, this is who I am. I believe in these things. These other things matter to me. And I like

you. I care about you. Good point. That also makes me realize how stressful this relationship must be for him, man. Because he's molded himself into a person he thinks she can live with. So I imagine he feels pretty misunderstood and inauthentic and anxious a lot of the time because now he needs to keep being that guy or he risks losing whatever connection they do have and he knows that that connection's already on thin ice because he saw her texts and that's the price you pay for cutting off parts of yourself to please another person to preserve a connection that might not be right but what's the quality of that connection if you're not being yourself so he might be correctly intuiting her wants or he might be assuming the worst when he imagines being himself but either way

it's not working because here she is texting her ex and saying she misses him. So it's up to you to decide whether to confront her or to not share that information that you saw on the phone and just try to address the underlying issues in your relationship. I think there are some good reasons to do both. But the most important thing for you, in my view, is to first of all really consider whether you and this woman are truly compatible in the ways that matter, which is different from desiring her, appreciating her, having fun with her, all of that stuff. And second, show up to this conversation about your relationship very honestly and bring as much of yourself to it as possible, which means sharing your feelings right now, your beliefs, your questions about the relationship,

all of it. That might be quite scary and exposing. This is going to be new for you. But it'll also be very enlivening and I'm just, I can tell you right now it's going to be a massive relief. Even if this conversation is very tough, even if it ultimately means that you guys break up, It'll be because you're saying, hey, this is who I am. This is how I truly feel. Who are you? What matters to you? How do you truly feel?

You can't make the right decision about whether to stay together until you do that. Completely agree, Gabe. The answer is definitely not to pretend nothing's wrong and just keep jugging along. Although the fact that that's an option for you, I feel like that's part of the problem. That's one more way that you're compromising, which is now compromising you. This kind of honesty is going to have to be a practice for you, and this conversation might be the first big step toward a whole new way. of meeting people in your life? Look, it's very possible that you two should not be in a romantic relationship because you're just too different culturally or because your feelings don't align.

It's also possible you could both grow and start relating to each other in a way, a way that allows you to be your true selves that makes room for your conflicts and differences and see how that relationship evolves. But I'm going to be honest. My gut is telling me you shouldn't be together. Not right now anyway. I think you need to take some space and come back to yourself and look at these parts of you that you tend to hide or cut off for the benefit of other people. I think your girlfriend needs to sort out her feelings about you and this other guy and make sure she's in the right relationship, both for her own sake and for her daughter's sake. So go have this chat, my friend.

This is all coming to ahead for a good reason. And good luck. All right. My recommendation of the week this week is a show called Love on the Spectrum. Love on the Spectrum is a docu series on Netflix that follows a handful of people every season on the autism spectrum as they search for love. It's not a new show. It's been on the air for several years now. I still think about it to this day. This show is so eye-opening and heartwarming and educational and sometimes insanely funny. But what I love about it is that it's never at the expense of the people

involved or in a way that feels, you know, cruel or exploitative, which I got to imagine is so hard to do with reality TV. There have been four seasons of the show. They did two seasons in Australia, which I loved. And then they did two seasons in the U.S. I am obsessed with the show. Every person I've told about it also falls in love with it. Except for me because I've never been able to watch a single episode because I have kids, but everyone else. Everyone else get to it. Kianne O'Clahery, the director and his whole team, really, they did something very special with the show. They chose subjects who are so interesting and lovely and funny and they followed them during a process that is sometimes incredibly awkward and so vulnerable. And they captured what it's like to

search for love when navigating other people can be very challenging. And that's actually what I love the most about the show. It speaks to this raw, awkward part of all of us, whether we're on the spectrum or not. So if you're looking for a really sweet, interesting, highly entertaining show to watch, check it out. Love on the spectrum on Netflix. I would start with the Australian seasons and then work your way to the U.S. ones. You're going to love it. Solid, Gabe. Also, in case you all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners and us about specific episodes, or just general show chatter. If there was an episode you liked, an episode you didn't like. You want to share additional thoughts, learn more from other people in our show fam. Check it out. There's actually some really nice conversations in there. Gabriel and I take part, but there's a lot of cool supportive stuff in there. People are sharing really interesting things. You can find that at reddit.com slash r slash Jordan Harbinger. Love to see you there. All right. What's next? years ago, I joined a startup as the first employee. I became CEO and a shareholder because I loved the work. It was tough, but we kept pushing forward, no vacations, low or non-existent salaries,

long hours, and the sacrifice of many friendships, and the person I loved. I wasn't the easiest person to live with. My bedroom turned into my office, so falling asleep next to three glowing screens while listening to the sound of frantic typing wasn't exactly ideal for anyone's well-being. Yeah, the manic startup hustle is real. It sounds like you were really lit up by this company. You threw yourself into it, which is beautiful. But yeah, I can do a real number on your relationships, man. I'm sorry that things didn't work out with your partner. It sounds like you broke up. Sometimes you just can't have it all when you're determined to achieve something. But I had a vision. To build a company where by the time I turned 30, I could take it easy.

working eight hours a day with people I care about on a project I love for clients who appreciate us. Each year the numbers improved and eventually I was able to guarantee five salaries, including my own. Every bit of profit went back into improving the product and raising employee salaries. We weren't a unicorn, but I was happy. Well, well done, man. I mean, you sound like a salad leader, also a salad human being. Yeah, he sounds great.

Everything was going according to plan until one day the shareholders decided to replace me as CEO. with the son of one of their friends and asked me to continue working for them. That's brutal. Ouch. I didn't have much choice, so I accepted. The salary was the same with less work, so I didn't have the right to complain. Well, you definitely have the right to complain, but I appreciate your mindset here. But as I watched the company shift its focus from our clients and employees to the happiness

of the shareholders, treating people like replaceable assets, I just couldn't stay. Yeah. I decided to resign before I hit burnout, C.A. therapist and start a new company, all while keeping in mind that this might be a blessing in disguise. Thank you both, by the way. Your advice has helped me a lot. Yeah, dude, again, you're killing it on so many levels rolling with punches like this, and this is one of the most brutal punches I think you could take. It takes a lot of maturity, a lot of resourcefulness, a lot of flexibility and openness, and I really admired those qualities. And he started another business. He's not like

sleeping on his friend's couch and licking his wounds. I mean, he just immediately got back on the horse. Good move. Yeah, he's pretty remarkable. By the way, I'm touched that we could play a role in all that. That's awesome, but you're the one who ran with all of these ideas. So, well done, Amigo. So he goes on. But here's the thing, my former company still owes me 100,000 Swiss francs, which is about 115,000 US dollars. They said they'd pay, but my last conversation with the new shareholder ended with them saying, I have no interest in paying you back, and blaming me for the company's lack of funds. I know this isn't true. I know the numbers, and since I left, they've cut development

to maximize profit so they could afford their Teslas. Okay, well, frustrating to say the least, and also almost certainly illegal. I could see a lawyer, but I'm not sure I have the strength to go through with it, and it might hurt my former employees. Whoa, okay, I'm sorry to keep jumping in here, but you do have the strength to go through with it. You should go through with it,

and it's not your fault if it hurts your former employees, which I don't believe that it will anyway. The new management is screwing you, and they're probably also screwing your former employees or your former colleagues, too. And if you get that money, you're not taking that money away from your former colleagues. Management was going to take it and buy a Model S with it anyway. Come on, man. I found a job that offers a good salary, but I'm concerned that accepting it would leave me with little time for my new company. On top of everything, I haven't taken a vacation or many weekends off in years. I haven't felt the need for it since I used to love my work

quite passionately, but everyone keeps urging me to enjoy my 30th. Still, I worry that taking a break now could negatively impact my career, given how rapidly the tech sphere evolves. Okay, my dude, uh, takes one and no one. You're a workaholic. It's really inspiring in a certain way, and it's absolutely pathological in another way, and I can say that because I am wired similarly, bro. We'll come back to this. You're a rock star, but man, is it time to give yourself a little space? 30 years old, man. You've got to live your life. Carry on, Gabe. So here I am, feeling a bit lost. What would you do in my shoes?

How do I navigate this transition? Signed, Finding My Way and Hunting for a Payday when I'm straight up afraid of going on holiday. Well, as with most letters we get on Feedback Friday, I'm very sorry this happened to you. I'm also not sorry this happened to you, whatever led to you being pushed out of this company and then resigning, in some sense, it had to happen,

either because this wasn't your organization to lead or because leading it in this way was preventing you from living your life fully, starting a company of your own, going to therapy, enjoying life a little bit. What I'm hearing is that you're going through a sort of mini-crisis, a very healthy crisis. It's coinciding with your 30th birthday, which also makes sense, and this might sound weird, but I'm actually pretty excited for you. My strong feeling is that this isn't just an opportunity to consider your next venture or your next career move or your next investor, but to really take a step back and can actually consider yourself. You've been in one

mode for a long time, man. Work, work, work. Build, build, build. I love it. Again, I admire it. You have real passion and grit and dedication to your goals. And underlying those goals are certain values. The peak experience of life for you right now is building. That you need to be useful, productive, effective, that work is more important than relationships. I was the same way for such a long time. I still am to a certain degree, but I've learned how to find more balance in my life, and I no longer believe that work takes precedence over literally everything else. Although Jen and the kids might disagree when I'm in the studio with Gabe on a Sunday or on the phone with my attorney at 7 freaking p.m. on a Friday. So I'm not judging you for those values. And I'm not necessarily

telling you to give them up. They are going to take you very far, case and point. Not to pat myself in the back too much, but it's effective. Part of your job as an entrepreneur, hell, even as an employee for someone else, and definitely as a human being, part of your job is to just experience the world, feel joy, feel inspiration, feel freedom, and to be in touch with the parts of you that are not just, you know, productive. You got to refill the well, man. And you've got to remember that life is so much bigger than your company or your employer

or some dipshit investor in their Tesla. To say nothing of how crucial it is to rest from time to time so you can really give your best to your new venture or your new job and all the people around you because this kind of burnout can wreak havoc on your body in your mind. It could really cause some problems for you later down the line. Now, I hear you that you're feeling

that taking a break right now could hurt your career. given how rapidly the tech world moves. But I also have a feeling that that's the workaholism talking. For sure. The tech industry, it's not going to pass you by if you go to Amsterdam for two weeks, man. You can do a three-month trip. You could probably even do a six-month trip and be totally fine, especially if you stay on top of industry reports and news and all that stuff.

But the fear that you'll somehow be left behind if you take a break, that's what's most interesting to me here. You know, you're not taking three years off to raise your kids a little bit or something like that. This is totally different. It sounds to me like there's a voice in your head going, don't take your foot off the gas for one second or it's all over. I have to think that that fear is part of what drives you, but it's just, it's not true. And actually, exploring the world,

experiencing the world as a visitor and as a consumer and not just as a builder, that's only going to make you a better entrepreneur, a better leader, because you have to understand how the products you build or the companies you lead, how they interact with the world, how they touch people. And you also have to go out into the world to have new ideas, to encounter new influences, to get out of your little bubble and look up from your screen and, you know, like, be part of things sometimes. Plus, you got to have fun. You just have to, man. It's part of your design. So I'm with Jordan. While you plot your next couple moves, make some room for yourself, man, as a human being. Enjoy your 30th birthday. My God.

I wish I was 30. Take advantage of this natural break between two chapters. Yes, seriously. Try something new. Look, it's totally possible that you derive most of your meaning and joy from work. And that's fantastic. But it'll mean even more to you. If you also allow you, yourself to have some experiences outside of that work as well. I'm obviously thrilled to hear that you began therapy. I think this would also be a great topic to bring into your sessions. I would actually be very curious to know how your therapist is helping you explore all of this stuff. And in a way, giving yourself more time to breathe and maybe travel and live your life, that is also part of your therapy right now. You know, I'm just remembering how much of this story seems to revolve around him

turning 30. Like you said, his goal was to build a company where he could take it easy by 30. And now 30's looming, he's been pushed out of his company, made to resign, he didn't achieve this very ambitious outcome of his, and that's probably left him with some difficult stuff. He might be disappointed, frustrated, maybe even kind of ashamed for not being able to make this happen. That might also be part of the reason he's going, I can't possibly take a few days off. The whole world's going to pass me by, but if I can, and Gabe, if I can just drop some personal experience here, I also was hell-bent on being, you know, make a million dollars by 30. I was hell-bent on that. And I actually achieved that goal if you allow a little bit for flexible math like this payment's coming in later

and this is already closed but the but you know what it didn't make any difference i remember i called my parents and told them and they're like oh we're so proud of you honey and then i like went out for drinks with friends and then i was like all right now i need to be retired by 40 right i'm 44 now spoiler alert didn't happen but it doesn't matter because i love my work right i wouldn't retire right now even if i had a hundred million dollars in the bank because i love what i'm doing so i feel like he didn't hit this arbitrary goal and he's beating himself up over it, but I'm telling you, if you had hit that goal, you would just make another goal. That's how you and I are wired, dude. I don't know you personally, but I can tell. Fascinating. So, yeah, this might be an opportunity

for him to put down certain ideas and certain arbitrary milestones, like getting to this point by 30 years old. He might be mourning the loss of the idea of himself as a guy who achieved that thing and the loss of the life that he hoped to have by now. That doesn't mean that it was a bad goal, like you, Jordan, I really admire his ambition. But when those goals create concepts that we cling to very rigidly and then punish ourselves for not living up to, especially when they might not have been attainable in the first place with this company he was involved in, that's when they can become very painful. So I think you make a really good point. That is in the mix here too, some grief over his values, his old identity, making peace with all these feelings that this moment in his life is

bringing up, which he might be trying to bypass by throwing himself back into work again. Man, that's so true. And again, I totally relate. But yeah, he's evolving. He has to clear the decks to make room for a new version of himself, which again, that's wonderful. So I hope you get to do that, man. You deserve that. And frankly, you need that. I'm sorry things went sideways, but now you're here and you get to decide what this transition means to you, what opportunities it serves up. And I know in time you're going to look back at this chapter and go, man, that was hard. But I'm so glad. I got to hit the reset button, reconsider who I really am and what really matters to me. Trust me, that's going to make sitting in front of your three screens in bed two in the morning,

if that's where you need to be anyway, a lot more fulfilling. Hope y'all enjoyed the episode today. I want to thank everybody who wrote in. Thank you so much for listening as well. Go back and check out Sean Atwood, as long as there's no kids in the car, and our skeptical Sunday on hydrotherapy, if you haven't done that yet. Hey, the best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.

I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. Some of you are retired. You think you don't need it. Some of you have networking on lock. You think you don't need it. I teach the stuff all over the world. I've taught it to some of the top law enforcement and spy agencies. If they can get value out of it, I'm positive you can get value out of it. It's not gross or schmoozy or basic. You can find it on the think-iffic platform at six-minute networking.com. The drills take a few minutes a day. You've got to dig that well before you get thirsty folks. Build those relationships before you need them. hammer your sanity down a little bit. Once again, all free at six-minute networking.com.

Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. Also, connect with me on LinkedIn if you so desire. You can find Gabe on Instagram, Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our our our advice and opinions are our

own and I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with the world's best counterfeiter. How long does it take to print $250 million? Five months. It needs to be worthwhile. It's going to need to be perfect because perfect go big. One day, for no particular reason I was driving and thinking I stopped at a red light. It just hit me out of nowhere. You know,

we're chasing something to make money from. Sell something, make something, do something. All we do is to translate that into money. It's what we wake up in the morning to do that. I need to do something for money. Well, why don't I just literally make money? million dollars in $20 bills is about 50 kilos. So $250 million is 12,500 kilos or over eight Toyota Camrys or six Ford F-150s. That is multiple metric tons of cash. You must have been f-and stoked, man, because you knew you were going to put $20 bills all over all of that and then just never work again. Yes. When I did bring it in and then I slammed the door shut, I was confident enough that everything I did opt to that. I hadn't done any mistakes. I was good to go. By design, there are people specifically looking for you all the time. This is all they do. If you get suspected in any way, let's say you're done. You can tell them whatever you want. They're not dummies. I mean, this is as high as it goes. This is the top of the line.

printed his own fortune and got away with it. Check out episode 488 on the Jordan Harbinger Show anywhere you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know

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Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.