The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1079: Noise Pollution | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: November 17, 2024

From beached whales to human heart disease, noise pollution is worse than we thought. Jessica Wynn sounds the alarm here on Skeptical Sunday! On This Week's Skeptical Sunday, We Discuss: Noise pollution is significantly more harmful than commonly recognized, contributing to approximately 48,000 new cases of heart disease in Europe annually and ranking second only to air pollution as the most harmful environmental exposure to public health. The impact on wildlife is severe — noise pollution disrupts animal communication, breeding patterns, and navigation, particularly affecting marine life. For example, increased shipping noise has led to whale beachings and is threatening species like the Narwhal with extinction. Noise pollution disproportionately affects low-income communities, who often live near flight paths, highways, and factories, with limited options for relocation despite the serious health impacts. The US has largely abandoned federal noise control efforts since 1981 when the Reagan administration defunded the Office of Noise Abatement and Control, leaving communities without comprehensive protection against harmful noise levels. There are several effective ways individuals and communities can take action against noise pollution: supporting local noise ordinances, using quieter electric alternatives to gas-powered equipment, incorporating sound barriers in construction projects, and being mindful of our own noise contributions. Small changes in our daily habits can help create quieter, healthier environments for everyone. Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know! Connect with Jessica Wynn and subscribe to her newsletter: Between the Lines! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1079 If you love listening to this show as much as we love making it, would you please peruse and reply to our Membership Survey here? And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turned their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, it's Skeptical Sunday, where I rotate. guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about it. Topics such as acupuncture, astrology, GMOs, toothpaste, diet pills, and energy drinks. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, and I always appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of all the things that we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start. Or search for us in your Spotify.

app to get started. Today on Skeptical Sunday, a topic we all experience but rarely discuss. Noise pollution. Airplanes pierce the sky. Leafblowers blast the city streets up into your face. Every day, quiet gives way to air conditioners, pounding music, construction equipment, traffic, barking dogs, your roommate, your kids, the list goes on and on. The sound of modern life is an unrelenting sweet symphony of annoyance, and that noise might be polluting our health and environment a lot more than we think. Here to help us muffle some of the racket is researcher and writer Jessica Wynn. Welcome, Jessica. Hey, Jordan. I hope this episode serves as a public service announcement to ban leaf blowers everywhere.

Yes, they are the worst. The number of times that they have interrupted a podcast are countless, and don't even get me started on the airplanes and the barking dogs and the motorcycles. Oh, yeah, noise pollution is everywhere. We adapt to and normalize the sounds of life without realizing the negative impacts it's having on our health and the environment. In humans really underestimate what life's noise is doing to our brains and bodies. So it's not just the neighbor's music keeping me up at night. It's the annoying headache that comes along with it. But how does that actually affect the environment itself?

Well, sounds there's a huge part of the environment, right? Like, you might not hear that tree fall in the forest, but the sound of it definitely disturbs some wildlife. Acoustic biologists study this all the time. Acoustic biologist, that sounds cool. What do they do exactly? Acoustic biology is the study of the crucial role sound plays in how animals, including humans, interact with their environment. For instance, a deciduous forest sounds different from a pine forest, and those sounds change with the seasons.

It's like each environment has its own unique soundtrack. There's this fascinating professor at Dartmouth, and she just studies crickets specifically. And she says this world of sound, it's something we're only just beginning to understand. It's like trying to understand a foreign language with just a few words. Crickets, huh? I thought they were just kind of nature's way

of providing ambient noise when I'm camping, but maybe they're trying to tell me something. I don't know. I think so. She's dedicated her life to the sounds they make, but it's not just the crickets. Like they're just part of a much larger picture. The whole ecosystem has its own symphony.

and noise pollution disrupts that symphony affecting animal communications, behavior, even their breeding patterns. I can vouch for the fact that when my roommates had their music too loud, it definitely affected my breeding patterns as well. I was okay. You're not alone. Even the heartbeat of Caterpillars speeds up when exposed to loud sounds. I mean, noise adversely affects all wildlife on land and in the sea. I didn't even realize Caterpillers had hearts. I thought that just, figured whatever. Anyway. They have a thing that comes blood. Okay, so how bad can this

actually be? My neighbor blaring music at 3 a.m. It's not affecting the fish or whatever, is it? It might be if he's close enough to the water. The impact of noise pollution on wildlife is worse than you think. Animals rely on sound for hunting,

communication, navigation, and sound travels five times faster underwater. So it's crucial for ocean animals. Even deep sea species to hear natural sounds without disruption. Imagine a whale trying to chat with its mate or its baby while a helicopter hovers above. Jet skis skip by and a ship is glaring its horn. It's chaos.

And this makes it difficult for whales to use echolocation, which is that thing when animals like whales, daffin, bats use it. They emit a sound and use the sound waves and echoes to detect the distance, the size, and the shape of nearby objects. So when that's interrupted, they get confused. And this leads to beached whales. Really? That's wild. So we're effectively throwing a party in the ocean and wondering why the whales aren't enjoying it?

It's more like the whales and other sea life are wondering when these noisy neighbors will be evicted. Within three years, 88 dolphins and whales beached in Maharashtra, India alone. That's just one area. And the numbers of whales stranded on beaches, it grows and grows, and it's because of noise pollution. Really? I didn't realize noise was the root. Maybe shark attacks are just sharks trying to get some peace and quiet. I can relate. That's not really an absurd theory. Human activity has increased. So there's more ports. There's more shipping activity. There's seismic surveys. There's mine blasts. And as the ice melts in the coldest parts of the world around the Arctic and Greenland, places like this,

that cruise ships now cross daily. This is all very noisy. The narwhal whale, the one that's like the unicorn of the sea with the horn, that is facing extinction as noise levels increase in their previously undisturbed habitat. You know, I didn't even know those were real until recently. I just, I thought that was fake and it was like, oh, it's from some story that I haven't read some children's book. And then my wife's like, narwhals. I'm like, yeah, ha. She's like, no, really. I'm like, those aren't real. And I thought she was the dumb one. I'm like, oh, those are fake.

And she's like, yeah, you might want to Google it, man, because they're definitely real. Yeah, I had no idea. All right, so those boat cruises and waterfront Dave Matthews band slash hooty and the blowfish reunion concerts, those are actually killing whales. Yeah. All the studies say absolutely, but not just whales and sea life. Like the din of this urban noise, it's messing with animals on land, too, causing a lot of disruption to birds. songs, which affects their breeding and their territorial behaviors. So if you live among mockingbirds like I do, you hear it during their mating season in the

spring when their calls have now started to sound like the car alarms and the truck backup beeps. And they love to sing at night. So I probably wouldn't notice that if they did it during the day. Wow. So noise pollution actually gets integrated into their mating calls. So these birds instead of doing like the or whatever they did before, I think that's from Hunger Games. Instead of doing that, they're doing like a, like a car backing up sound or like a, I can't even do a car alarm.

But they're doing that instead? Yeah, totally. Oh, that's so bizarre. I'm imagining a bird trying to imitate an NWA track because they learned it from the 12-year-old down the road. Oh, man. Things are complicated out there in the dating world for mockingbirds. Sounds awesome, actually.

But that's just how it's going for a lot of species. During the coronavirus lockdown, we had this rare opportunity to study change. changes in bird songs because things were just a lot quieter everywhere. A lot of studies done during that time found that the pandemic's noise reduction led to many positive changes for birds. There was an increase in bird sightings all over the world. Bluebirds who were previously having fewer chicks and nobody could really figure out why before

the pandemic. Their population surged during the shutdown. Robbins changed communication patterns. they went from singing at night, back to singing at daytime. Birds who nest in chronic exposure to loud construction sites, they always are shown to have massive feather loss. But during the pandemic, when the construction stopped, all their feathers returned.

Oh, wow. I actually saw coyotes in my friend's backyard in L.A., like in a nice neighborhood in the middle of Hollywood. And I didn't expect that either, but maybe that kind of has something to do with it. Although, who knows, maybe there's always coyotes there. The evolution of birdsong, though, that is fascinating. I guess I never thought about them needing the environment to be more quiet in order to communicate and reproduce.

But I guess if you're essentially yelling to your neighbors down the road all day and that's like how you live your entire life, it would be hard when some idiot is jackhammering on the corner and riding their cool guy motorcycle at max volume. Look, for reproduction, too, I too like to focus at the task at hand. I don't need noise interrupting my flow either. I get it. If somebody's screaming something, yeah. That's right. Your performance won't be as good, probably. That's right.

In Mumbai, there's a lot of studies there. It's just populated so loud. And so biocoustics are heavily studied there. They're gauging the impact noise pollution has on vocal behaviors in the populations. And they will do so much to be heard. Like, they'll sing in a higher pitch. They will delay nesting because mating calls are hard to hear over our low-frequency human noise. And some studies are showing that noise pollution prevents birds from learning their species,

typical songs altogether. They just might never mate. Oh, poor birds. It all makes sense. It's like they're trying to outsmart the noise, but it's causing all sorts of other problems. Sounds like in-cell birds are on the rise. Again, sadly, I can relate. Oh, Jordan. I don't know about that, but we see similar impacts on any animal observed. I don't know if noise is what's creating human in cells, but a 2020 study of the UK found that bat activity and and their feeding behavior are negatively affected by traffic noise. And this makes sense because bats use echolocation. I see.

So the bats started the pandemic to shut us up so they could navigate better, which is really smart, actually. Maybe. Yeah. Citation needed. Yeah, right, right. It's no crazier that like whales and birds dying because of the ships and the construction sites, there's just so many connections to how noisy we humans are and

climate change. There's many sources of noise pollution like traffic from fossil fuel power vehicles and all the industrial activities that we do. They're significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions. So addressing noise can also help mitigate climate change. Noise pollution and climate change are never discussed together. Actually, noise pollution is never discussed at all, which is one of the reasons I wanted to do this on skeptical Sunday. So I really don't associate climate change and noise pollution, but I guess I probably could slash should because engines are doing a lot of the work for both. I know. Nobody's making this connection. We're just not aware and we absolutely need to make it a part of the conversation. If it's noisy, it's disrupting the environment and the climate. And the activists who are

shouting through the megaphone to save the trees should be aware that noise pollution is responsible for stunted plant growth, diversity. It's contributing to climate change. So noise pollution, it can significantly affect what's called the phyto-hormone content of plants, which is an important part of their stress response. So these sound vibrations are literally changing the cell walls of plants, and that's reducing the number of seedlings that germinate. So many people right now are like, and this is why you need to do sound baths to something cure cancer, and I'm like, we're not getting there yet. With the plants, can this really be proven to be rooted in the noise, though? I almost find that hard to believe. Yeah, it is proven.

For sure, in-cell plants. I don't know. In-cell plants. Red pill plants. There was a study conducted on the impact of noise pollution on plant growth within urban community gardens. And so these researchers, they made two identical setups with the only variable being one garden, contained traffic noises, and the other contained just natural noises. After only six weeks, the average plant height for the natural noise group was about 104 millimeters,

and the traffic group only 65. Wow, I wonder if noisy tomatoes taste different than ones from a quiet garden. I don't know, but that would be a really fun taste test to set up. It could, the noise is affecting so much. And on top of the plant effect, urban sprawl and deforestation, they remove natural sound buffers. and things that we use to deal with climate change, like our air conditioners, our generators, that's all adding just more noise, like most sources of noise. The transportation, the fossil fuel extraction, it's all contributing to global warming.

So noise pollution, it's just aggravating the climate crisis in our cities, in our forests, underwater, and it's causing grave harm to animals and even leading to species loss. Oh, well, I guess more than the narwhal is facing extinction just from noise. It just seems, again, something you never think about. You think about pollution and plastic and oil spills and stuff, killing a bunch of species, but you don't think, oh, all these boats making noise or underwater mining is killing entire species. It just sounds like it can't be right, but I guess it makes sense. I know, right.

Like, it's not tangible, so we don't think about it like we think about plastic. It's intense noise pollution. It's damaging whole ecosystem. and that comes with the potential of extinction. What do you think it's doing to us humans? You know, any neuroscientists will tell you that sound has shaped the evolution of the human brain. Tell me more about that. It makes sense, given what we've just learned, that maybe it's not great to spend all your time in L.A. or New York,

as if I needed any more reasons to avoid Los Angeles, besides doorknob herpes or whatever you guys have down there at any given time. That's not fair. Yeah, except if you live downtown and they have it. It's doorknob cholera. Nobody goes downtown. Yeah, true. Yeah, it's loud. And there's a neuroscientist, Seth Horowitz, and he'll explain that vibration sensitivity is found

even in really simple life forms. So it's critical for our survival, whether it's detecting predators or finding food. Our brains evolved to be incredibly sensitive to sound because it's such a crucial source of information. So that's why we don't go. downtown. The sounds of Skid Row or not very healing. That's the reason. Not because I'm getting accosted by somebody who's trying to sell me batteries that they just stole from the 7-Eleven. So sound is like some kind of superpowered communication channel for the brain? Yeah. In a way, sound travels through

almost anything, right? Air, water, even the ground. So when we talk about hearing and sound, we are really focusing on the vibrations. So even deaf animals are affected. When you go to a concert, You feel that in your chest when they're like heavy base. It penetrates everything, everywhere. And it's processed by the brain much faster than visual information. Yes, light travels faster than sound, but Horowitz says our brains hear things 20 to 100 times faster than we see them. That's incredible. I had no idea.

Yeah. It really is. It's wild. And the brain processes sound so quickly that it influences all our other perceptions and thoughts. If you hear a loud noise, your brain is already prepping you to react before you've even fully processed what's happening. So sound gets in our heads faster than anything else and this affects how we think and feel? Yeah. Our brains are constantly processing rhythms and patterns and sound.

And that helps to make sense of our surroundings and our emotions. So think about when noise messes with your sleep. If you've been feeling unusually cranky or tired, probably don't need a therapy session, but you need a break from the chronic noise exposure. It just leads to fatigue and that increases our anxiety and that can cause mood swings. So noise pollution disrupts our emotional and mental health, but people normalize it and think you just have to deal with it. So if you ask somebody in really loud areas to just deal with it, that's equivalent to telling somebody stuck in trouble. traffic, like just drive faster. It's not a solution. It's just like anything. And each person's affected a little bit differently, depending on our personality. So the sounds I hear can actually

become a part of my personality? Yeah, of course. And not just a part. Like, it's not a mystery why New Yorkers are so loud. People from cities are louder than rural or suburban people because they have to talk louder over the noise of urban life. And New York City is really loud. Yeah, that's true. noise pollution isn't just creating loud New Yorkers. It's impacting our health and in more serious ways than just giving you a headache. The problem wasn't just that I got louder after living in New York City. It's that I stayed that way even after I left. Look, I like it now, though.

I'm just kind of like a loud American guy. What else is new? But the trick is to be both charming and loud and not just loud. But I digress. Okay, so besides the headaches, what else is going on with humans? It's impossible to ignore how noise pollution effects are hearing. That's the obvious one. And in research, yes, shows that constant exposure to noise drives hearing loss to nitis,

but it also causes high blood pressure and even heart disease. I get the hearing stuff and blood pressure because of stress, but actual heart disease, that is way more serious. Yeah. Estimates suggest that chronic noise exposure contributes to around 48,000 cases of heart disease in Europe each year. And it's also linked to conditions like type 2 diabetes, obviously sleep disruption, stress, memory impairment. There's emerging research suggesting a link to dementia, but that one's still being investigated. Wow, to think of all the health issues I may have caused people blaring Bon Jovi at 4 o'clock in the morning when I lived in Serbia every weekend. I mean, it should be a crime

to play any Bon Jovi recorded after 1980. Yes, I agree. But it's not just blaring music, though. There's so much more to it. And starting in the 70s, U.S. agencies, They listed noise pollution as, quote, a growing danger to the health and welfare of the nation's population. The European Environmental Agency, they report that noise ranks second only to air pollution as the environmental exposure most harmful to public health. This is crazy because a doctor has never once mentioned noise pollution when discussing my health. Or do doctors recommend noise reduction? Is that even a thing? Or is it just completely lost? My doctor doesn't talk to me about noise. I would think if a patient mentions noise as a stressor, especially if they have any cardiovascular issues, I guess a doctor may suggest personal noise mitigation strategies and stress reduction techniques.

But I'd be surprised if it's ever presented as like the serious cause of any ailment. It would be interesting to see. Do they even talk about that in medical school? But it seems like we are actually inclined to crank the volume to relieve stress. For example, I listen to EDM, electronic dance music, that gets louder when I'm ready to relax. That's how that works. Are you relaxing, though? It's jolting your adrenaline, and you're probably trying to mask out all the noise pollution

that might cover your EDM. So scientists see that surprise, surprise, constant exposure to noise does the opposite, and it messes with your body's stress hormones. Ah, so I'm essentially engaging in stressful stress reduction. That's great. we all are, right? It's basic biology, though. When someone experiences a stressful noise, the body's amygdala sends a distress signal to the hypothelmus, which then signals the adrenal glands to release adrenaline and causes a stress response. You know it can improve your breeding patterns.

One of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of the circle of people that I know like and trust. And I'll know The word network is dirty. I know, I understand, but I'm teaching you how to build your own network for free over at six-minute networking.com. The course is about improving your skills. It's not cringy. It's not going to make you look or feel gross. It just takes a few minutes a day. Many of the guests on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at six-minute networking.com. And again, it's all free. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. So when I turn the volume all the way up to run a smooth, effortless five-minute mile,

hypothetically. I'm actually not reducing stress. No studies suggest that. And it just might be my observation, but I do the same thing. I blast music with a fast beat and it definitely increases my pace when I'm running. But that's probably because the stress response that the noise creates, it's turning on that fight or flight mode. And we're already running. So we'll have to do more research on the connection between music and exercise. Yeah, it's so complicated. I can feel relaxed by a certain song at home, but the same music live, obviously would pump me up. I guess you can't deny the power of music, but I don't necessarily know how to harness it, right? I think I'm relaxing, but I'm just stressing myself out or making myself work harder. I don't know what's going on.

Yeah, I mean, and there's different parts of our brain processing it. We might really like this song, but there's a part of our brain that just is hearing noise and wondering what's wrong. Long. Listening to music has so many variables, but stress, anxiety, other mental health problems, they are linked to not just music, but all the sounds of life. If you ever turned down the music in your car or told somebody to stop talking so you can concentrate on parking? Yes, of course, sound affects us in mysterious ways. I also get annoyed when people are talking or making noise and I'm trying to do anything complicated. And of course, if I screw something up, it's always the fault of the person making noise. Not my fault for not knowing how to cut.

something or open a box or whatever. And I feel it's like peak dad guilt because I'll be like, Jayden, keep it down. I'm trying to. And it's just because I can't figure out how to open a container. And he's like, what am I doing wrong? Man, these adults are weird. Yeah, these adults, man. Take a chill pill, dad. Jeez. How dare people exist around you? Yes, exactly. How dare someone else breathe the same oxygen as me while I'm frustrated? And it's not just that they're ruining your concentration. People get embarrassed about noises too. There's all kinds of sound barriers people put in bathrooms and things so that the sound, people don't hear each other. Have you been to Japan? I haven't, but I think I know where you're going with this. So when I was in Japan, they have these toilet seats that have like

computers attached to them. And I used to just laugh and be like, oh, Japan, but then I got them for my house. And I noticed that when I went back to Japan, that the ones they have in Japan have functions that mine don't have here in the home. Like, it's like a big day toilet seat that has a heater and blah, blah, blah. But in Japan, there's a music note button, and I'm like, okay, what is this? So I press it at the hotel, and it starts playing music box, and I've noticed that even places that don't have that, they will have a music box near the urinal or near the toilet. And I finally asked somebody what the purpose of, why does every bathroom have a music box? I don't know if people just don't want bathroom sounds.

They're embarrassed even when they're in the bathroom, so they'll play music so you can't hear them peeing or whatever they're doing. And then when you're done, it stops. It's so weird. I'm just thinking, we're all in the bathroom to do the same thing. But somebody's like, oh, no, I need to hear this rendition of the national anthem instead of... Rather hear a music act than. Yeah, why? I need to hear like a music box version of never going to dance again by George Michael instead of someone urinating. It makes no sense to me. It helps you go. Exactly. It's that saxophone solo played on a music box. Yeah, that kind of culture would never have lasted. And the house.

I grew up in where we all shared one bathroom. Maybe you needed that. Maybe you needed that more than them. I don't know. It caused a lot of laughs in our house. I mean, when we examine why we feel that way, why we do do that, though, it's not that mysterious. We have this finite amount of attention to divide between vision and hearing to make decisions.

And so when we turn down the radio in the car, we see better. I don't know. I guess when you have music playing in the bathroom, you can. focus on what you're doing. Maybe you could relax certain sphincters more. Yeah, just like, all right, no one can hear me, so I don't have to worry about the noise and just release. You can relax more? Yeah, maybe. What we're doing is either way, if we're turning it up or down, we're just adjusting the noise pollution in our immediate environment. So those beached whales, they're starting to make a lot more sense of how they can get confused. And when noise pollution is out of our control and makes it

difficult to sleep, then there's this domino effect, and it's causing problems that are giving us that high blood pressure and heart disease. And like we mentioned before, it also causes hypersensitivity to sound, which leads to hearing loss and tinnitus. Is noise pollution actually causing a lot of hearing loss? Because it seems like we would all be suffering hearing loss, since we're always just bathing in noise pollution. And everyone you know owns headphones or AirPods or both or whatever, right? Like, we're all going to go deaf earlier. I don't know. Yeah, it's complicated. We aren't all actively suffering because we're highly adaptable, but it is affecting us. And our ancestors definitely had better hearing than we do. So if someone

time traveled here from any time pre-industrial revolution, they'd be driven mad. They'd be running through the streets with bloody ears because of just how noisy the world is today. And it could also affect us the opposite way. If we went back in time, it might be, too much quiet for us to handle. There's accounts from people who spend time at the Arctic Research Center, and they always mention how freaky that deafening silence is. But there's 30 million people in the U.S. who are exposed to dangerous sound levels every single day. 30 million. Wow, it's 10% of the country. That's like the whole population of Texas, basically. Yeah. Wow. And the constant exposure to high decibel environments, that can lead to what is called noise-induced huge.

hearing loss, NIHL, and around 25% of Americans, whether you realize it or not, are experiencing hearing issues linked to NIHL. So sounds at or below 70 decibels, that's the safe zone. But sounds above that, they can be harmful, even if it's just for a short time. I am quite positive. I've damaged my hearing from working in clubs, bars, using earbuds for literally hours and hours at a time, doing this show using over the year headphones that might be turned up slightly too loud. How do we know what safe decibel levels actually are? My watch will tell me, my kids are screaming in my ear, it'll be like, you're in a loud environment. That's relatively new, and I don't always have that right with me all the time.

Yeah, of course, for scale 85 decibels, that's like your alarm clock, but lower than the lawnmower. And then when you get further to 110 decibels, that's when you're out of rock concert, or that jackhammer's going. There's this great decibel app called Decibel X. Oh, yeah. Do you have that? I do have it.

Yeah, I've had it for a long time. I love that app, actually. Oh, yeah. It's so fun to pull it out and just see where you're at. Because sometimes I think something is so loud and it's not. It's just disrupted this quiet place. Vice versa, if you're somewhere loud and you're used to it, you're like, oh, shit, this is a lot louder than I thought.

So it depends on what we are doing or concentrating on when noise happens. Yes, I have that app. I can recommend it. We'll link to it in the show notes. I love that there's a little scale that shows how loud your environment is and what it compares to. So it'll be like, you're in a place that's as loud as a lawnmower or a jet engine or it's like a soft breeze.

And yeah, it is interesting because you'll think, gosh, it's so loud in here, but it's really not, you just want it more quiet. Or you'll think like, oh, this isn't so bad. And it's no, your ears are filling with fluid or something because it's been so stinking loud for the last half an hour. It's like, you can sit in here for 20 more minutes before you suffer temporary. or a slash permanent hearing damage, and you're like, I'm going to get the check and leave.

I really wish I'd been more aware of this stuff growing up. So many dumb things, right? I'd go to work without ear plugs, and I'd just be like, God, it's so loud. My head hurts. Or I'd mow the lawn every weekend, and I'd be like, this lawnmower is so loud, and I'd drown out the loud sound of the mower

by cranking up my earbuds as loud as I could. And these are not, like, insulated, sound-isolating earbuds. They were just, like, Sony, plastic, whatever. So I just basically made them louder than the lawnmower. I cannot imagine that was good for me, aside from inhaling gasoline fumes for three hours every single weekend coming from a small mower that doesn't purify or whatever. So we're all basically setting ourselves up for a lifetime of like, what? Why did you say? That's going to get old so fast. It's a huge issue, you know, and it's pieces of the puzzle of who we are. But noise pollution is actually the number one cause of hearing loss worldwide. It surpasses age-related hearing loss. loss. So the next time someone says, turn it down, they could be saving you from a future of

what'd you say? What? Yeah. Yeah, I'm hoping that eventually they'll have the equivalent of cataract surgery for your ears where they're like, oh, we need to just inject some sort of like stem cell thing and your nerves will regrow and you'll be able to hear again. I need that. If you really start to look at the biology of it, I don't know how that would be possible because it's all about those little hairs that actually are getting the vibrations. And as we get older, I mean, we naturally lose those. Yeah, I don't know. Miracles from modern medicine

happened quite a lot. This is a tangent, but my dad is 80 years old, and he went and got his cataract removed, and he's like, yeah, they said I won't need glasses, and I'm like, how is that possible? And he's like, oh, they removed the cataract, and they just put a lens in instead

that is shaped to correct your vision. And I'm like, get out of here. He's like, no, I have 20-20 vision now. He's 80 as 2020 vision doesn't need glasses at all except to read. And I'm like, that is truly, And it took like a day. I want that.

I know. Wow. Yeah. I'm sure you can get it. I don't know if you need to have the cataract part. I think that part's optional. Ever makes it clear. My eyes are trash.

I'm all in for bionic eyes. Yeah. Yeah. And eyes are super complicated. Granted, it's a lens. So maybe it's easier than ear hairs. I don't know. I'd love to hear from somebody who knows about this,

like an audiologist who does ear surgery or something like that. And they're like, oh, that's impossible for these reasons currently we'd need to be able to do X. Or like, oh, actually, this is totally possible. We just need to work on it. I don't know. curious if there's technology for that because I worry about losing my hearing. I really do. I'm convinced that I have a little bit of hearing damage potentially already and that it's just going to get worse over time and my mom is hearing damage so it could be genetic too and I'm like, oh great, just something

to look forward to. You do have hearing loss. It's impossible to avoid. Like you don't have a volume knob on your daily life. The air pads are not helping and it's a serious problem in every workplace. Studies show that noise decreases productivity. So if your boss is yelling at you from across the office or just a really noisy environment, you can say like, hey, it's scientifically proven that shouting is actually lowering your performance. Maybe you'll get a quieter office. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure that's how that would turn out.

Bosses who yell and can't control their emotions love it when you clap back at them with data and science and then ask for some nicer office. But as far as the noise stuff, man, if that's not a reason to turn down the pre-1989 Bon Jovi, I don't know what is. I know, but when you're a kid, it sounds so good loud. Yeah, true, true story. I think we're safe maybe at the levels we're working at right now with our headphones, but I don't know. 50% of teachers, they experience vocal damage because they're talking over classroom noise. Wow, I'm sure I contributed to that for a few teachers as well. I used to get yelled at constantly for talking.

My voice is, the voice you hear now, which is loud and clear, was always loud and clear, and I wasn't always able to moderate it as a kid. And I was always the voice the teacher could hear and understand above everyone else's. So I got yelled at constantly for that. It sounds like our classrooms actually needed a good acoustics upgrade. Tile floors, glass walls, concrete walls, cinder block, whatever it was. Not ideal. Yeah.

Muting the students' mic during the pandemic was probably a blessing for a lot of teachers. Oh, the class clown? I can just mute this person. They can never talk. Yes, please. Nearly 20% of noise-exposed workers have hearing impairment. Occupational noise pollution, it's a big health hazard. And kids are particularly vulnerable to this, too, at school.

So chronic noise, it impacts their psychological development, their stress levels. It even is shown to cause learning delays. So if you're trying to concentrate on homework and that leaf blower is going, that noise pollution can be impairing cognitive function, which is why some believe leaf blowers lower your IQ. What? So noisy environments could actually be setting kids back in school. There's so many jokes I could make about leaf blowers and IQ, but I feel like all of them

are mean. It's crazy that a noisy environment could actually be setting kids back in school, though. I'm worried about this. I know, but that's what all experts point to. So excessive noise, it can even affect baby's ability to understand sound. and develop language skills, just like those birds that are confused and can't do their original songs. Babies learn a lot from the sounds around them. So don't bring your baby on the subway.

I guess that's the moral of the story. God, those poor little things. They should definitely be wearing ear protection, probably whenever they go out. Maybe all of us should. Because traffic noise can damage your hearing, just walking down the street. So if anybody ever says that they want flying cars, point out to them that they exist. They've called helicopters and you don't want them in every driveway because they are insanely loud. The Star Wars universe must be so loud.

Maybe Princess Leia's hair was a medical sound barrier. But you think about it. Everything was a machine. Everything flew. They were like headphones. It would be nice, though. We traveled to outer space where there is no sound. perhaps that would help. But here on Earth, studies show living under those helicopter and plane flight

paths, they have serious health effects. Like, I used to live near a hospital, and when the helicopter came, it rattled this whole crummy apartment. I was lucky to not live there too long, but the neighbors who had lived there for, like, years, I think they were a little more high strung than they should be. Like, living under a flight path is proven to increase. stress and anxiety that elevates blood pressure, it can cause chronic tension headaches. It's found to take years off the lives of people who live under them. I was shocked reading these studies. They even show that suicidal ideations are higher in people who live in prolonged exposure to aircraft noise. Well, suicides related to noise pollution, man, I know this is going

to sound insulting, but moving is probably a better concern. consideration, right? I know, yeah. But unfortunately, usually it's low-income neighborhoods that are bearing the brunt of noise pollution. And they're typically located near the flight paths, the highways, factories. So moving is probably not an option. And factor in like the disparity of healthcare for those communities, it's easy to conclude

that noise pollution disproportionately affects the poor. And there's just not much they can change. All jurisdictions have restrictions on airport noise with stricter limits at night and things, but that does really nothing if your house rattles every time a plane takes off. Yeah. Could one bring a lawsuit on the grounds of being annoyed slash suffering actual health damage by living in a noisy neighborhood? Oh, for sure. That happens. In 2022 in Tokyo, residents won a whopping $22 million in compensation for a health issue. caused by persistent noise pollution from two U.S. military bases. $22 million. That's like the jackpot of noise complaints.

And so with that amount, I'm going to guess it wasn't some U.S. Marines dog barking all night. No, no. It was about the constant industrial noise and the artillery blasts. Oh, my gosh. We're affecting like the locals' health. Yeah, that's so loud. Wow. So the EPA and this old piece of legislation called the Noise Control Act there,

at the heart of a noise pollution lawsuit here in the United States. So is this a lawsuit against the EPA? Yeah, for sure. So last June, this anti-noise advocacy group called Quiet Communities, they sued the EPA for not doing its job. They said that they were supposed to be limiting the sounds people are exposed to in everyday life and argue that the EPA is failing to enforce this noise control act of 1972, which that's what it was all. all supposed to be doing, just protecting us from harmful noise. And so the group is now waiting to hear if it'll be able to argue the case in front of the district court in D.C. So the EPA was supposed to keep our ears from bleeding and our hearts from exploding, but they kind of dropped the ball.

Pretty much. The federal effort to control noise, it started out well. It had really good intentions. And that noise legislation was passed in 72. Then the EPA set up the Office of Noise Abatement and control and they quickly got to work studying noise, making regulations, including one to limit noise from garbage trucks. That was like their mission when they first started. 1970, so 50 years ago. So we've been aware of this problem for 50 plus years and we're acting on it. That's good news, but it's a little slow if you ask me. That was how it started. Yes. Scientists have been sounding the alarm for years, but it wasn't heard over all the noise because I see what you did there.

That was 72. Thanks. In 1981, the Reagan administration, one of the first things they did was rescind the garbage truck regulations. They defunded the noise abatement office and claimed that local governments should handle it. Yeah, that's right on brand for the Reagan administration. That totally tracks. Every time we do skeptical Sunday, every time. It seems like something that the government was doing to help people got the kibosh during the Reagan administration.

And I don't remember any of it, of course, because I was watching Sesame Street back then. But Reagan gets a lot of shrift on Skeptical Sunday for like, well, we did have a thing where you couldn't just dump random amounts of lead in the water. But Ronald Reagan was like, nah, local governments will totally just watch out for that. And then flag. Back to the state. Yeah. It's such a bummer because the studies back then, they were on top of it. They showed harmful effects from noise pollution.

They showed there was heart disease and learning disorders. And just beginning to accumulate all this evidence. So they were on track to consider noise limitations on things like jackhammers, lawn mowers, air conditioners, vacuum cleaners, chains, anything like that we would buy would have been a lot quieter. And a major piece of the program was the education of the public. Quote, we would have avoided a lot of damage, said Charles Elkins, who headed this office from 1975 until it was closed in 81. The office remains defunded to this day, quantifying the exact. impact here is challenging because of the poor measuring and monitoring. And now for some noise pollution from our sponsors.

We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this podcast are all searchable and clickable over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. So wait, that means we're not even sure how bad it is in the U.S.

because we haven't really been keeping track. And that is one way to make a problem go away. Just stop measuring it, I guess. The American way, yes, exactly. We don't measure this, so it's not an issue we're focused on. Okay. The U.S. hasn't funded noise control or any kind of research since the 80s. So if you live with an earshot of an interstate highway, if your child's school sits

next to train tracks, if your neighbors out there wielding the gas-powered leaf blower, like you're just out of luck. It's somehow socially unacceptable to be the neighbor asking to turn it down. But there are some regulations and noise ordinances. There's grounds for lawsuits here, at least in some places, right? The noise control office was defunded, but the act is still there, and it requires federal entities to report their noise levels and considers noises above 80 decibels to be excessive. So this does give the EPA the authority to regulate noise from major sources like

instruction equipment, vehicles like motorcycles, but it's just not enforced. Yeah, but loud pipes save lives, bro. That's what my biker bros tell me. And I'm kidding and eye rolling when I say that because motorcycles set off car alarms in my neighborhood all the time. And there's this dude who, his bike is extra loud. It's this older guy and he doesn't wear a helmet. I'm just like, you don't even care about yourself, let alone anyone else. And it's so loud. It's not even like a regular bike. It's so loud. It scares my kids. And it ruins countless takes of shitty dad jokes on this very podcast. Yeah.

Motorcycles are so loud. And motorcycles and rock bands, they have destroyed a lot of young people's hearing. And since 1982, there has been a federal regulation requiring motorcycles to have EPA approved mufflers at all times. But lack of funding and resources, it's really challenging for communities to enforce that and mitigate any noise impacts. That fear your kid has experienced from his motorcycle. It's not crazy. It's a totally natural response.

Yeah, you see that same fear in every pet in America on the 4th of July from all the fireworks noise. I always felt so bad for my dog on the 4th. It'd spend the whole night in my lap and shaking. It was just awful. Every dog or people with PTSD, like when they hear that, what that triggers? That's true. There's this terrific documentary that demonstrates how noise is used to create threat and fear in animals to drive them away from fields and cities. So it's like that same idea when music's blaring outside businesses to deter loiterers. I've seen that in action.

There was some sort of weird high-pitched sound near a sign. And there's other places that have teens loitering. And there's this stuff that actually doesn't bother me anymore because I guess I'm too old. But I've seen this in action. I know blaring music is used in warfare or like at Guantanamo Bay or whatever or Abu Ghraib or something. Imagine being the artist whose music is used to scare off teenagers or like Al-Qaeda. Blaring nickel back to get the hostages released. Our music's really popular with the U.S. military.

Actually, they just use it to blast it ISIS because it drives them crazy. It's a weapon. They get sniped when they come out of hiding. Hey, no bad press, right? Yeah. Noise is an expression of power, and that's been well understood for millennia. So those motorcycles and cars with an extra loud roar are stereotypically seen as a symbol. of power and masculinity.

You guys know that when people like you drive down the streets with your unnecessarily loud motorcycles thinking you're all cool, everyone is actually laughing at you and calling you pathetic. You do realize this, right? If people are annoyed or intimidated by it, that's too bad for them. Yeah. No, nobody is intimidated, actually.

Everyone realizes that people who are so needy for attention, they need to dress up and be as loud as possible, are you guys and 16-year-old girls. And at the local level, it's difficult to keep the roar to a minimum. In 2022, after six years of activism, a ban on gas-powered leaf blowers finally went into effect in Washington, D.C. It's frustrating because on a national level, a federal body like the one Reagan cut could have researched the damage from leaf blowers, identified alternatives, sponsor the development of quieter electric leaf blowers, and fail to based in regulations, so we weren't all suffering from this noise every day. Yeah, and I think I remember in our episode that we did on lawns, our skeptical Sunday on lawns, leaf blowers, they pollute more than cars because it's just unfiltered. It's an inefficient little engine, and it spits out unfiltered, untreated emissions. It's also handheld, like, on your person. So if you're using one,

you're basically just, like, sucking on a car exhaust. And if you're around it, you know, you're sucking on exhaust. And that's in addition to the dirt and toxic crap break dust that it's blowing from the street up into the air where you can breathe it because it's already on the ground where it's more or less harmless. Like it sucks because it's in the water eventually, but at least you're not inhaling it. And it's like, I need to get these leaves off my driveway and I can't use a broom because I'm too lazy. So I'm just going to blast this toxic cloud into the air. So it's noise and everything else as well. Madness when there's a guy on one end of the block blowing it north. And then there's a guy on

the other end of the block blowing it south. It's like what exactly is the point here? I mean, wild. Nothing quite says this is your problem now, quite like a leaf blower. It's just the epitome of not solving the problem at all. Don't even get me started. I could do a whole episode on leaf blowers and it would just be me yelling at the clouds. As a leaf blower

is like disrupting the puck. Exactly. Back to your point, it is so true, the public understands so little about noise pollution, myself included. There's a disconnect to get people to care because we think it's more like a minor inconvenience when it's a legit health issue. I mean, it's so true. There's this growing

awareness of the issue, mostly in Europe, where studies are linking noise pollution to broader environmental impacts. In the United States, we should be assessing the decibel levels of everything from household appliances to traffic to those leaf blowers, but it's just not happening. And I will say, the activist in D.C. worked really hard. And I think it was in either Vermont or New Hampshire. They're the only state that's outlawed leaf blowers. We just need to get it on the ballot because I think it would be such an easy thing to get rid of, you know, good start.

Yeah, you're right. It would be a good thing to cut. And I know Adam Carolla said this and he got canceled, so I'm going to try and do it in a different way. They were talking about this about how they should outlaw leaf blowers. And he said, oh, it's basically

it's a tax on Mexicans. And what he meant was the landscapers who are often from South America are the ones that use leafblowers. and if they can't use that, then they are somehow losing. But I feel like, first of all, leaf blowers are killing those people who are using them. Doesn't matter what ethnicity you are, of course. And also, they could use a broom, and if they get paid hourly and it takes longer, okay.

I'm not convinced that it's, like, racist to get rid of leaf blowers. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I think it's just a health issue for everyone. And I can't believe noise pollution is so overlooked in environmental discussions. It's like people are so busy freaking out about air and water that they forget about this constant chaotic din just blaring in the background. Everything you said, you just nailed it. We know this is happening.

Like just in 2021, a French study found the effects of noise pollution even more damaging than air pollution. Really? Don't get me wrong. All pollution created equal, I guess. But air pollution's a massive problem, of course. That causes respiratory issues, the whole deal. But there's a lot more going on with noise pollution. And in just this past July in 2024, a bunch of scientists, research groups, and the UN put out statements calling for more noise regulation.

But without federal action here in the U.S. than without funding, progress is so limited, like really limited in the U.S. Is noise pollution addressed in the infrastructure bill? We always hear about construction projects, but what about hearing that construction? I know. I did a scan of the document and the bill completely fails to mention the word noise at all. Oh, great. Yeah. So major environmental organizations have not stepped in to do research or push for policies as they have for air and water pollution. And the reason suspects Dennis Hayes, who is like a legendary environmentalist. He created Earth Day. Oh, wow. Yeah, he's cool. He says that. The whole reason is money. So people are inclined to donate to environmental organizations, and they're expecting to adopt a cuddly panda and save the whales and plant trees, not fight highway noise.

Like that they're also a part of, exactly. Exactly. So he said, quote, when considered on a national level, noise just doesn't compete against other environmental problems for emotional intensity. And I think that's so important. And the irony is just that. Like many sources of noise pollution come from people who claim to care deeply about the environment. They're recycling, they're composting. But they don't turn down the subwoofer in their Prius when they're blasting Indigo Girls or whatever.

And by the way, every Prius either has a Depeche Mode sticker, an Indigo Girl sticker, or a coexist sticker. Not necessarily in that order. I think Coexist might be at the top of the pyramid on this one. Change my mind. I think that's probably proven just driving around LA for sure. But yeah, I mean, there is this growing movement against noise pollution, but I think people just aren't aware. So it's so slow going. And implementing these measures to reduce noise, like adding it to the infrastructure bill, so things are quieter, adding it to traffic management and urban planning, this could all have positive impacts on climate change by reducing emissions from.

transportation and just relieving a bit of stress on animals and humans. So while I'm waiting for the government to get its act together, let's say I live in a noisy neighborhood. What can I do? Just wear ear protection 24-7? Yeah. Unfortunately, it's just not feasible for individuals to tackle noise pollution on their own. And of course, there are those personal things we can do like earplugs or soundproofing, but broader policy changes are necessary. And as our cities grow, so does the noise. So it's time we start thinking about solutions like better urban planning and noise regulations. In India, they've built this highway through the Pinch Tiger Reserve, which is a really famous reserve.

It was the setting of Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book. And it incorporates underpasses and overpasses to protect animals. And they built this four meter high steel wall, which, forms a noise barrier to protect animals from noise and light pollution. Finally, a wall worth building. Yes, definitely. We need comprehensive strategies like that. It'll result in better urban planning, stricter noise regulations.

More investment in research is so important. As we have it now, the future of noise pollution regulation, it's really uncertain. But increased advocacy and research, it could help tune out this often overlooked issue. But in the meantime, that's just it. The solutions to noise pollution are straightforward. We just have to get those regulations enforced, design quieter machinery, outlaw leaf blowers, people, and maybe just maybe learn to keep our own volume down. Yeah, maybe if we all work together, we can turn down the volume and actually hear ourselves think. And yeah, maybe it's time we all start practicing the art of being a little bit more quiet.

Thank you, Jessica, for this. Yeah, thanks for listening to the sound of my voice. Ah, and remember, folks, it's not just the volume that matters, it's the impact. So stay in form, stay healthy, and try to keep it down out there. This is a neighborhood. Here's a trailer of our interview with Moby, iconic musician and producer. This was a super real conversation about creativity, fame, mental health, money, and what really makes people happy and fulfilled.

Moby was really open with this one, and even if you're not a fan of the music, I guarantee you will dig this episode. I grew up in arguably the wealthiest town in the United States, Dary in Connecticut, but my mom and I were on food stamps and welfare. My first punk rock show was to an audience of one dog, and my first electronic music show was to Miles Davis. I wanted to stop the show unpatiently explained to the movie stars and the beautiful people that they'd made a mistake.

They were celebrating me, but I was in nothing. I was a kid from Connecticut who wore secondhand clothes in the front seat of his mom's car, while she cried and tried to figure out where she could borrow money to buy great. groceries. Now it was 1999. I was an insecure husband, but we kept playing and the celebrities kept dancing and cheering. The weird thing is things started to go wrong when I stopped feeling that way. In 1999, I thought that my career had ended. Yeah. My mom had died of cancer. I was battling substance abuse problems. I was battling panic attacks. I'd lost my record deal. And I was making this one last album. I was like, okay, I'll make this album. I'll put it out. I'll

moved back to Connecticut. I'll get a job teaching philosophy at some community college. And then all of a sudden, the world embraced me. I handled fame and wealth really disastrously. It was so humiliating. I wouldn't trade any of it. For more from Moby, including how he bounced back from a 400 drink per month booze habit, check out episode 196 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Thanks everyone for listening.

Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday can come right to me. Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. Show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, and discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her substack between the lines,

and we'll link to that in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

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