The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Your hiking group's newest member has killer calves and concerning ideologies. Should you hit the trail or fight for higher ground? Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: You joined a hiking group after your divorce to focus on personal growth and make new friends. Everything was going great until a charismatic, physically impressive guy showed up spouting fascist ideologies and making disturbing comments about weaponizing drones. The worst part? Everyone else seems captivated by him. What's your next move when you're the only one seeing red flags? Living 14 hours from family in a foreign country, you're struggling with your husband's ongoing pattern of deception, from emotional affairs to secret drinking while on antidepressants. With a six-year-old daughter and limited professional options, you're torn between love, fear, and dignity. How do you find your way through this maze of betrayal when you have no support system? You're a single woman implementing networking strategies in the conservative South, but there's an unexpected cultural hurdle: people find it "suspicious" when unmarried women contact married men professionally. How do you build crucial business relationships without triggering social landmines? Something's fishy in your California condo complex: managers seemingly getting paid under the table, maintenance staff double-dipping, and board members possibly involved in the scheme. You suspect corruption but fear retaliation. How do you expose potential fraud without becoming a target? Recommendation of the Week: Blue-Light-Blocking Book Light Your adventurous friend just booked a trip to Afghanistan, brushing off your concerns about the risks to foreign women travelers. Despite your attempts to share information about the dangers, she won't even listen to relevant podcast episodes. How do you protect someone determined to venture into a geopolitical hornets' nest without proper preparation? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Dr. Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my co-captain cajoling these complicated conundra, Gabriel Mizrahi. Not Dr. Gabriel Mizrahi. Just missed her. Nope, haven't earned the honorific yet. What is this doctor business, dude? Is this because you're a JD? Yeah, a doctor of laws. Anyway, on the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from war correspondents and neuroscientists to journalists-turned poker champions, music moguls, and tech luminaries. This week, we had former ATF agent Jay Dobbins who went undercover in the Hells Angels. So if you like our undercover-ish episodes, this is a really good one. It was a two-parter. I already planned to have them back on the show because there's a lot there that we didn't even get to.

If you liked our Ken Croke episode about going undercover and a biker gang, this one is similarly fascinating. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play the occasional ridiculous soundbite and co-opt absurd catchphrases from past letters. Gabe, you know what I was thinking about this morning? Hmm, tell me. That time years ago, we ended up on a video chat with that supposedly super successful entrepreneur smart guy who wanted to overthrow the government of North Korea.

Yeah, that was a strange one. Yeah, so a really successful friend of ours, I don't want to give a really successful friend of ours, I don't want to give away too much. But anyway, he's like, we should talk to this guy. He's really credible and really smart. So we're like, all right, so we get on this call, and he's very odd and grandiose. And he comes up with this cacamamemi scheme.

Like, we need to drop a bunch of computers with internet broadcasted into North Korea. And then we're like, well, they're just going to confiscate the computers. Let's drop in Navy SEALs, take over part of it. And then we'll have the people there learn a bunch of stuff. And then they'll spread it to everyone else. It was just like the dumbest. Wasn't there something?

involving hot air balloons. Yeah, he was going to run hot air balloons, which will obviously get shot down over North Korea to have internet in the whole country. To drop USB drives or something like that. He wanted it to hold internet routers. I mean, it was like the dumbest plan that I've ever heard for anything.

Maybe someone in South Korea could maybe pull that off a little bit, but three Americans in Los Angeles. It was so funny. No, and also, like, you're going to drop Navy SEALs in and start a massive conflagration over this, and then those people are

just going to get thrown into re-education camps. They're not going to, like, go spread the word of capitalism throughout North Korea. This is such a ridiculously dumb head-in-ass plan. And you and I were just texting each other. And back then, for whatever dumb reason, the operating system, the iPhone would vibrate the phone even when it was on silent every time you got a text. So my phone was sitting at a cup holder in my car, was like, constantly while you were like, I can't believe this guy. Is this guy for real? Why are we on this call? And then they all noticed that my phone was doing that as you could hear it. It just turned into this. Awkward. Yeah, that wasn't very

skillful on my part. It was just one of those calls where I'm like, I can't sit here and listen to this without texting you saying, what are we listening to? And also, the call lasted a long time because he kept pushing back on our ideas. Our obvious reasons that this was a completely dumb idea where we were

trying to be polite about telling him why it wouldn't work. And he's like, well, let's just have the Navy seals going. And I'm like, all right, President Reagan, you do that. But in the meantime, we're driving to get bubble tea somewhere in Rancho Cucamanga. So I think we got to go. Come on. Yeah, it's like this guy ran the Joint Chiefs of Staff or something. Yeah, it was so dumb. You don't get to do that. We ended up in so many weird meetings because we used to go to North Korea. Do you remember the time

we met with the manager of the band Air Supply? Because they wanted to do a concert in Pyong Yang and they were like, these guys have been, they might know how to make that happen. That was so funny. I forgot about that. And it was cool because the band was totally into it. And their agent was like, here's the problem. There's no money. And we were like, yeah, we know. There's definitely no money. It's North Korea. And the band was like, we don't care, man. It's going to be amazing, historical. And he was like, yeah, but I'm the agent and everything costs money and I need money. And then he's like, I got an idea. Let's have Budweiser sponsor. You also understand that there's no American beer brands and American flags and things like that that are going to be displayed

in downtown Pyongyang. There's no advertising or any billboards whatsoever, but there's certainly no billboards from Budweiser north of the 38th. parallel, not happening. It made no sense and just showed that this person couldn't find North Korea on a map and was only concerned with the money, which is his job, but it was short-sighted because the band was like, wait, aren't multiple bands famous for playing at the Berlin Wall, playing in different places behind the Iron Curtain? This is kind of the same thing, except the 2020 edition or whatever year it was, 2018 edition. The guy was just like, yeah, but I want to get paid. It was so silly. In retrospect, maybe we should have proposed that they promote their domestic

brand of beer. What was that called again? Yeah, te dong gong or whatever. Te donggong. Yeah. The only beer made primarily out of fermented children's tears. That's right. It says that right on the label. I remember you, Jordan, you brought a notebook to take notes in that meeting and halfway through the meeting you just stopped writing things down. There's literally nothing to write down. This is never happening. I wanted to open up the window and throw the notebook and pen out the window. Like, that's unimportant, everything else that you say after this particular point. That notebook was a prop to make me look like I was on top of it. I was like, we got to impress this big-time Hollywood agent. Then I realized

he had no clue about anything, and I was like, I don't need to put on this facade. I'm just going to enjoy this bizarre conversation, and we're going to go out to lunch after this. Bye. What was Air Supply's famous song again? Something about love, of course. I'm all out of love. I'm so lost with that. Yeah, that's right.

Speaking of North Korea, Christopher On, the veteran and activist, who was involved in the failed raid on the North Korean embassy in Madrid several years back. He was a guest on the show that was episodes 996 and 997. Unbelievable story. As you probably remember, he's currently facing a very complicated and expensive legal battle. The U.S. is considering extraditing him back to Spain. He's probably going to face criminal charges and or actual

assassination by North Korea. Christopher and his team are still raising money for his defense. And by the way, this money isn't going to the lawyer. She's doing it pro bono, but there's materials and there's court fees and stuff. So it's not like you're paying some rich lawyer to defend him. It's not very often that I promote fundraisers for guests, but if you listen to my interview with Chris, I think you'll hear what we heard, which is a guy with a very strong moral compass and a big heart whose life has been completely derailed by a genuine attempt to help North Korean defectors that went seriously sideways. Proceeds from the fundraiser will go toward Christopher's legal and necessary expenses while he fights to stay here in the United States. We'll link to the GoFundMe

and the show notes. I would love it if you took a couple minutes and if you have it, give a few dollars A bunch of small donations can actually go a really long way if enough people do it. So if you're like, oh, I only have five bucks, I like, oh, I only have 10 bucks, that's fine because if a thousand people do that, that stuff adds up real fast. All right, as always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies. I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Dear Jordan and Gabe, after getting divorced last year, I joined all of the local hiking groups I could find. I learned to hike, learn to make friends, and learn to love myself. I found a couple girlfriends through these groups, but mostly I'm thankful for the friends I've made.

I chose the personal growth route instead of drinking at the bar every night to cope with the divorce. That is awesome, man. I love to hear that. They're broadly two paths to take after a major blow like this. You either tie one on three nights a week at a bar and slur into every single person you can find the full divorced dude cliche. Or you take good care of your body, your mind, your life, you open up your world, you meet other healthy people, and you flourish. And I'm glad that you chose the latter. Honestly, joining a hiking group or a yoga studio or literally any hobby is a thousand times more helpful than getting wasted down at a pub every other evening.

About six months in, a very tall, chiseled, extroverted, and very charismatic dude showed up. Everybody loves him. Everybody. He's Mr. Popular, and people flock to him when he shows up. The problem is he's very opinionated on every single topic, and he's an outspoken fascist, an outspoken conspiracy theorist, and he said things like, I didn't want to vote for Trump because he's too far to the left. Yes, the left, not a typo. And he also says stuff like, I just want people to know just how fascist I am. I'm rolling my eyes. Very edgy, bro. He's real

proud of this, but it's so dumb. All right. Not the vibe our friend here signed up for it, I'm guessing, in this hiking group. Politics aside, you join these groups to get away from this annoying, partisan stuff, even when it's reasonable, this is just annoying beyond the pale. Along with these comments are some very racist and misogynistic beliefs as well. He thinks white is the best race. He thinks African countries struggle with poverty because of the low IQ of their population. He uses the rich Western countries as evidence for his beliefs. He's very outspoken about this and other racist beliefs and conspiracies. That is largely Nazi ideology. Gabe, this guy sounds like this.

supposedly handsome popular version of the geopolitical in-cell colleague we heard about a couple weeks ago. Similar beliefs, kind of very different package. Yeah, maybe we should introduce them. Maybe they could hike together and cajole each other and talk about how they wish 1984 was nonfiction. What a weird duo. I'm just picturing them together with a hiking sticks. I just have an image of my head of the geopolitical in-cell guy like getting a piggyback ride from this guy on a hiking trail. Exactly, while he's whispering Vladimir Putin quotes into his ear.

Yeah. Weird couple. He also knows that I fly drones for fun, and one time asked me how hard it would be to attach a handgun to a drone just so he could fly it around. That's possibly worth reporting to the authorities, if relevant. He actively wanted to make such a drone, but he thankfully doesn't have the skills to do so. I asked him why he wanted to, and he said it's his, quote, Second Amendment right to do so, and nobody can stop me. Yeah, you know, the ATF would beg to differ, but this guy sounds out of his mind. And look, I can appreciate a good Second Amendment argument. There's obviously responsible gun ownership.

I don't have the law in front of me, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that making a flying gun is not something that you're just allowed to roll through and do. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody email me and tell me the legal fine print on this. But there's a class of these alt-right weirdos who just want to play with guns because it's cool and it makes them feel powerful and they're obsessed with their sovereignty or whatever. It is so creepy and it is so dumb and immature when it gets to this level. He loves to debate. And if you give him a topic, he'll go for as long as you let him and eventually back up his arguments with racist, misogynistic, fascist beliefs that are not typically grounded in reality.

Again, this guy is very charismatic, very well-spoken, very extroverted, and absolutely everyone in the group loves him. Even people with different political views are just drawn to this guy, like a magnet. That's got to be hard to watch. It just goes to show you how far personality will get you. You can literally be a fascist Misogynistic Gun Psycho POS and some people will find you compelling. It's wild. I don't know. It might also speak to the people in this group That's the other side of this equation. I have some questions. Yeah, that's the quiet part that we haven't said out loud yet. Are these people just fooled by the exterior? Are they willing to overlook disturbing stuff because he's funny and charming and he is nice biceps? I'm so confused as to why anybody with two brain cells to rub together would put up with this guy for more than just a few minutes. Yeah, very confusing. I also feel like I can't tell if he genuinely believes in this stuff

or if he's one of these people who just really enjoys provoking people. He seems to get off on the attention and kind of like... A lot of these guys do. Yeah, so it makes me wonder, is this genuine on his part or is he just playing some weird game with this group? Anyway, our friend here goes on. Meanwhile, I feel like an a-hole because I seem to be the only one concerned about any of this at all.

I feel like I can't bring up my concerns because everybody speaks and thinks so highly of him. How do I handle someone in the friend group like this? Am I the A-hole? Should I do nothing at all and let his gross beliefs go unchallenged? Isn't that how fascism spreads? Signed, check this hot mess and his hateful drek?

Or try to keep climbing with his boot on my neck? Oh boy, this is a tough one. I definitely feel for you here. I'm bummed for you. Blake or whatever in his cartoonishly regressive alt-right politics are infecting your otherwise lovely height. group. Like I said, part of what's upsetting about this is the ideas themselves. It's disturbing and grows to be around racist, misogynistic, violent people. It's like being around a weird

child. But to have to listen to this crap while you're just trying to get outdoors and heal from your divorce and relate to people beyond their politics, which is so important, that's almost worse. If this guy showed up to my awesome friend group, I'd be beyond annoyed. But here's the thing. I know you feel like the A-hole because you're the only one who seems to see this guy for who he is. Everyone else really likes him. But what I've learned over the years is whenever there's a problematic person in a group, I always feel like I'm the only one who feels some type of way about it. And then eventually I'll be talking to someone else and we'll tiptoe up to the topic and nine times out of ten,

they'll be like, oh my God, I hate that guy. So annoying. I just tolerate him. Or somebody's going to get a little tipsy and confess that they feel the exact same way, which is always so tasty when it happens, isn't it? Like, oh, you think Brock is annoying to? Thank God. It was going out of my mind.

And then you guys get to dunk on Brock for 20 minutes, which admitted. is not the most enlightened thing to do, but man, is it satisfying? So I have a sneaking suspicion. You're not the only one who has some questions about this guy. Unless he's only sharing this stuff with you, but it doesn't sound like it. He sounds pretty vocal again. He's probably thriving on the attention. So no, you're clearly not the A-hole here, but this is an opportunity to learn how to deal with A-holes, how to navigate the tribal politics of a group. Humans are funny like that. We don't like to go against the grain. We don't like to be the odd man out. But there's a kind of social proof that people like Blake develop, and the more he seems popular, the less likely it is

that people will go, uh, actually this guy's really creepy. Now, it is possible that the people in this group really do know how he feels and they still approve of him for whatever reason. And if that's the case, then I have some questions about this group, honestly, but we can circle back to that. So let's just talk about your options here. Option one is you say nothing, you do not engage, you let all this hateful stuff roll off your back and you focus on enjoying the hiking and the group apart from this guy, that's going to require some black belt level compartmentalization on your part, but it is possible. Although if he's walking up to you and going, hey, I just read this new thread on X by Cat Turd on how melanin affects your IQ or what, that's going to be hard or impossible to do if he keeps trying

to cram this stuff down your throat. Or if he's talking about it loudly with everyone else, maybe you can't ignore it, but you can always pop in some earbuds or start your own conversations to drown this guy out. Although I hate that the answer might be putting noise-canceling headphones on when our friend here is just trying to like enjoy the sounds of nature. No, he shouldn't have to do that. I'm just saying it's an option, which brings me to option too, which is you gently push back or you say something to this guy. Now, you can either do that publicly, which might mean starting a debate in front of everyone, or you can do it privately. You take them aside and politely say, hey, listen, but I can see that you're very passionate about your views. That's fine. But I just want to share a couple observations

about how it comes across to people. And I want to ask if we can keep our hiking group politics free so we can enjoy the outdoors and the fresh air and each other and have a break from how crazy the world is. You get it. I like that approach. I don't think he's going to get anywhere with this guy by pushing back on the ideas themselves. I think this guy is just way too entrenched. Usually these people are not ever looking for a meaningful debate. They don't care. They've already made up their mind. They're choosing contrarian and edgy viewpoints because it gets attention. They're not going to trade that for something reasonable. This guy just wants an audience. So I say don't make it about his ideas. Make it about the vibe of the group. I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, I can also see a guy like

is responding with, oh, you can't handle the truth snowflake? You're trying to censor me now? I feel a lot of times that these tone deaf alt-right people do that, and they do it a lot. Actually, people on both extremes of the spectrum do this. They're just looking for a fight. They'll find it anywhere. And again, they thrive on the attention, the engagement, even in real life. Still, worth a shot. And if you don't have any luck, maybe you ask the organizer or the group, if there even is an organizer, maybe just ask him to say something so he knows that it's coming from the top. And he should love that, right? He loves authority. But then authoritarian bootlickers, they always like authority over other people.

They don't necessarily like it over them. They want to be on top. Remember, one of the core beliefs of bootlickers is that they're going to be in the in-group when their team takes over. The problem is they don't realize they're usually never that guy. Just that's what I said a couple weeks ago about this random Indian immigrant guy. He was like, Putin's the best. It's like, you don't think you're on the chopping block next, buddy?

Come on, bud. Get with it. Option three, you try to get this guy removed from the group, which I'm guessing is going to be quite hard, given how popular he is, or the organized. the group doesn't want to intervene. It might also be unfair on some level, although this guy, he obviously sounds like a problem. It might not be fair to kick him out for his beliefs,

and I'm sure that would only entrench him further because he'll feel persecuted, although I don't know if that's your problem. I don't think this is a realistic option or even a necessary one yet. It's going to be hard to ban someone from an real-life group. I would just try options one and two first and see what happens. There's another option, which is you find a new hiking group, but that kind of makes me sad because this group, it sounds like, has been really profound for you,

and you should not have to leave because he's annoying. And I imagine that it would feel like admitting defeat or something, which makes me mad because, again, this guy is the problem. But if you truly cannot enjoy these outings anymore, then you might not have a choice. And there are other options. Yeah. Look, I definitely try ignoring him or encouraging everyone to keep the group politics free before leaving because you don't want to leave for kind of no reason. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely start with option too because you're on much firmer ground there. And even people who might agree with this guy's views in some way might also agree that the group would benefit from being racism.

eugenics free. I agree. Just be like, hey, guys, crazy idea. How about we listen to the sound of the birds and not talk about how to Jerry Rig a Glock to a featherweight drone? Just a pitch. As for letting his beliefs go unchallenged, you're worried that that's how fascism spreads. I actually love that you're worried about that, and it says so much about you. You're a decent human being. And sure, in a way, that is how a lot of this toxic crap spreads. But like I said, I also think this guy is in way too deep for you to change him. I also don't know if it's your job to change him. I don't think you're somehow enabling his views by choosing not to stand up to him. This guy is pretty extreme. And honestly, he might be kind of scary. I mean,

wanting to put a gun on a drone, that's like psychotic. No normal person who isn't, you know, defending Mariupil wants to do something like that. Agreed. Yeah. That's something I would have thought was cool at age 12, just not understanding consequences and violence. Here's what I really think. I think he's a scared, weak dweeb inside. And he wants to feel powerful because most of Most fascists are like that. But you never know. Sometimes these people are actually violent. There's no reason for you to put yourself in harm's way or become a target.

But look, like I touched on earlier, if this group really is drinking the Kool-Aid and overlooking this stuff, that might say something about the group. There's this phrase in German, I don't know if you've heard this. I'll do it in English. But if there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people are sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis. I kind of wonder if the same is true of this hiking group. Gabe, if you joined a yoga class and the teachers like, welcome to your friends.

Friday night, you don't fry flow. And everyone else like, how he's so funny, he's so charming. That's a class full of Nazis. Strange yoga class, yes, it is a or a class full of idiots, one or the other. I know he wants to put people in camps that are brown, but have you seen his abs? OMG. But then does that prove his point that he might need to say something to these people or call this out? Does he have a responsibility?

Right. I don't know. I don't think he's going to convince this guy very much. But yeah, he might want to chat privately, discreetly with a few people he's close with, take the temperature of the group, find out if anyone else feels the same way, that'll be good data. Maybe they don't even realize how bad this guy is, or maybe they perfectly understand what he's about and they just don't care, which would be a huge red flag for me, and probably enough reason for me to leave. I'm so sorry this creep has infiltrated your hiking group. That is, again,

such a bummer. I hope this isn't the end of the group for you. I don't think you're there yet. But here's the good news. You can hike literally everywhere, and there are good humans everywhere. And if you've met some good folks in the group, maybe you invite them to come with you on your own hikes, you join another group, you make even more friends, whatever you do, don't let this guy ruin your hobby in the bigger picture, and definitely don't let him get in the way of your larger post-divorce healing journey. And yes, I just use the phrase healing journey. Your what?

Yeah. That's what is happening. I don't know. Obviously, I'm hanging out with you too much. But seriously. Sounds so weird coming out of your mouth. At least I didn't say it all breathy. Healing journey.

It's awesome to hear about, you're doing great. It's inspiring. Keep it up. Keep growing. And I know it'll lead you to even more great people and places. Speaking of murder drones, now I'm going to drone on about the murderously good deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening at supporting the podcast.

Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support this show are searchable and clickable over at Jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've been with my husband for 20 years. we have a six-year-old child together, and we live a 14-hour flight away from family. Neither of us is particularly close with our families.

My husband works, and I've been a stay-at-home mom for six years. Over the course of our relationship, my husband has lied about little things. We've spoken about it, but he doesn't really change. This all came to a head a couple years ago when he was always on his phone messaging someone. I asked him about it numerous times, and he very obviously kept lying. So I went through his phone while he was asleep. He'd been messaging a coworker for over a month on a daily basis. There were a few flirty messages and a lot of deleted messages.

When I confronted him, he still tried to lie his way out of it. I was absolutely heartbroken. I consider the messaging an emotional affair. He's adamant that nothing physical happened, but I can't trust him. So I don't know if that's true. I seriously considered leaving him after that. I felt that I didn't know him anymore, Although, looking back, there were red flags at the beginning of our relationship.

There almost always are. It's very helpful to clock those in the postmortem, but don't beat yourself up too much about not seeing him at this point. Instead, I stood by him and supported him while he battled depression, which has returned numerous times since. So we started couples counseling. He promised he would do anything to rebuild my trust, that he would treat me right. Fast forward two years. He's on antidepressants, but feels they aren't helping as much as they have. in the past. He's told me numerous times over the years that he uses alcohol to cope. I heavily suggested that he should not drink on antidepressants. Last time he did, I ended up calling an ambulance because he was unconscious, getting sick, and I couldn't move him. He told me he wouldn't drink during the week, but over the last four weeks, he's been desperate to walk to the shop during the evenings,

and when he returns, his speech is slurred, and he can't walk in a straight line. I asked if he was drinking, he said no, and gaslit me into believing it was exhaustion. I was really worried about him. Then, last night, I found out the truth and confronted him about the secret drinking. Turns out he's been lying to my face for weeks. He feels that he can't drink alcohol without me policing him like a child, which is fair. I've told him none of this means lying is okay, which he agrees with. I have an issue with him drinking because I know he turns to it in times of stress,

and I feel he chose it over me when I was pregnant. I had an awful smell aversion to alcohol during pregnancy and asked him not to do drink until our daughter was due and he couldn't do it. He since apologized and said he was wrong, but I'm still not over that and feel second best. He was meant to be rebuilding my trust, but now my trust in him is non-existent. But I don't want to leave him. I don't know if that's because I love him, or because I don't see a way out, or don't know how I would cope without him. My daughter would be absolutely devastated if we separated, and I don't think I could handle not seeing her every day. I'm trying to be strong for her, but inside I'm falling apart.

I would be very lonely and possibly work a job I hate, as I'm limited professionally living in a foreign country. I know some of the things my husband says are true, but he uses them as excuses. He really is suffering from depression. He is on antidepressants and seeing a psychiatrist. He's suffered from severe insomnia for years. He feels undervalued, unappreciated, and negatively targeted at work,

although his role insurer is a very good education. for our daughters so he feels he can't leave as she would have to move schools. He's the financial provider for our family and feels as if everything is crushing him emotionally. I think I do love him. Thinking about him not being in my life devastates me, but so does thinking about only having him in my life as a co-parent and not a true partner. I have no friends and no one to confide in about what I'm going through. I've tried to make friends, but I just can't seem to. I have one friend back home I could potentially confide in, but I really don't want to share this with anyone who knows us because I'm embarrassed that I've let this happen to me, and I know it'll damage

their opinion of my husband. We've tried couples counseling again recently, which is tough with finances and child care issues, but I'm afraid it's not helping all that much. I'm lost. What should I do? Signed, compromised by my guy, and despising his lies, but paralyzed to devise a life that is mine. Oh boy, okay. Look, I'm very sorry you guys are going through this. I'm sorry that your husband is struggling in all these ways. Some of them understandable, some of them self-created,

and I'm sorry that you pay the price in many ways and that you feel stuck. There's a lot of pain in your letter, a lot of sadness, a lot of confusion. And the stakes are fairly high, given that you have a child together. You can live in a foreign country and all of that. So I can appreciate the bind that you're in.

That said, I'm very concerned. about how your husband is coping with his challenges. The main concern, of course, is his alcohol dependency. Your husband has an addiction, period. Let's be clear about that. He says he uses it to cope, which means he recognizes that he's self-medicating. He hides it from you. He's lying about it.

This is a problem. But when you hold it alongside all of the other problems, namely the cheating, whether it was just emotional or not, kind of doesn't matter, in my opinion, the fact that he's not giving himself every possible advantage in working on his mental health, his work stress, this larger pattern of lying about so much of his behavior, it's deeply dysfunctional. It's very chaotic. It's very disrespectful. And if he's not willing or able to meaningfully address any of this, ideally in some kind of couples

therapy, which I'm very glad to hear that you want to give a try, I just don't know what you're supposed to do here. It sounds to me like you've given this a real go over a period of what sounds like at least two years. That's a long time. If this were new behavior, I'd be like, all right, work on this. here's how you've got to go through X, Y, Z stages before you decide to leave. But what I'm hearing is that your husband is not showing much interest.

No interest beyond his words in addressing the root causes of his unhappiness and his addiction, his impulse to carry on with other people, the stress and dissatisfaction he feels around his work. And look, I got compassion for him to some degree. I really do, especially as a man. I get it. The responsibility of taking care of family, it can be a lot. You got to earn money. You got to take care everybody.

He's obviously in pain. He deserves some support. It's intense. I get it. But he also has a responsibility to take care of himself, to make himself as easy to help as possible. He has to throw himself into therapy. He has to admit he has a drinking problem and work a program. He has to turn to his wife and go, look, I'm out of control. I'm miserable. I need help. Or turn to somebody, and he's just not doing any of that. So just to bottom line this here, your options are either to put up with this crap and suppress the obvious pain that you're in for all the

reasons you laid out, or separate, remove yourself from this dysfunctional situation, and find a new co-parenting relationship with your husband. My strong feeling, as hard as this is, is that option two is the right decision. It's a right decision for you, for your daughter, and even in a way, it's right for him. And if you're not there already, I think you're heading in this direction. I think I agree with that. The cost of staying without some meaningful change just seems way too high. She pays a price either way. The question is, which price do you want to pay? You say you still love him, okay? Not seeing your daughter every day would be devastating for both of you. You don't know how you'd cope without him. You're limited professionally. I hear you on all this. I get it. I really do.

But what I'm hearing from your letter is a lot of fear. Fear about how you'd build your own life and make your own way without your husband. Fear about stepping into a new relationship with him. fear of trusting your daughter to understand your reasons for separating to stay close with you, even if you didn't see her every single day, fear of trusting yourself to figure out the practical aspects of building your own life, getting a job, working your way up to better ones, all of that. I think there's a larger fear of all of this, you know, the unknown. Yeah, look, I can relate to that the most here. That might be the toughest form of fear to deal with. And all this fear, it is absolutely appropriate. It is very normal. It would be strange if you

didn't feel it. But what you need to see is that your fear is keeping you stuck and it is keeping you vulnerable to a very tragic, very hurtful partner. As long as your fear of what's on the other side of this is greater than your anger, greater than your sadness, greater than your dignity, you're going to stay in this problematic situation. Now, look, I'm not saying you have to leave tomorrow. And I'm still making room for the possibility that your husband turns a corner and wakes up here, these things happen. If you sit with what we're sharing with you today for a couple months and your husband suddenly realizes he needs to maybe meet his challenges in a different way, great, I'd be over the moon. I tell you to give him that chance. I'm just encouraging you to really

take stock of the data that you now have on him and be realistic about where this is going. That's where I'm at with all this, Gabe. What is your take? I've been going for a minute. Yeah, no, my take is pretty much the same. And I say that knowing that the solution here might be relatively straightforward, but actually living this decision is a lot harder. It's very intense. So I understand that she is in a process. Here, and it's her own process, and she might need some time. So many of her reasons for staying,

especially the ones that have to do with her daughter, those are also reasons to separate, in my opinion. Yeah, the whole we have to stay together for the kids thing. It just does not hold much water from me in situations like this. Think about your kids are eventually going to see everything that you're seeing. Is that a good example for them to be around? That's terrible. If you think about it, what she's saying is,

it would be devastating to my daughter if we split up. I would be devastated not to see her every day, so I'm going to stick around in a marriage where she's exposed to a lying alcoholic father who's not really dealing with his issues very well. I'm not sure that that's fair to the daughter either. No, and trust me, if this continues, she's going to know what's going on real soon.

She's, what, six years old? She probably already has a sense that something isn't quite right with dad. I've got a friend who's getting divorced. She's trying to hide it from their three kids, which I fully understand. I think they're like 13, 8, and 6. And one night recently, she called me,

she was upset because her 8-year-old son started crying and she's like, what's going on? And her son said, I know you guys are fighting. What did I do wrong? And they weren't fighting in front of him at all. There was just that tension that kids can feel. Kids absorb way more than you think they do. Yeah, and they often internalize it, sadly.

Exactly, which is heartbreaking. So I would really investigate this. reason for staying. I also want to remind you that you don't know that you and your daughter wouldn't see each other all the time. There are all kinds of custody agreements. Who knows? Your ex might grant you full custody formally or informally, or you see your five days of the week. You guys share every other weekend, whatever that looks like. A slightly different living situation doesn't have to be the end of the world. I've got a friend who got divorced and he has 50% decision-making legal custody, but the kids live at the house seven days a week. They don't go back and forth because he didn't want to disrupt

their routine and he lives in kind of like a bachelor apartment. That's further away. He didn't want to have to deal with the logistics of that. So he just comes over like every other day, whatever their arrangement is. You could do something like that. So you might not have to give up your kid. You don't necessarily have to have them go back and forth all the time. There's all kinds of custody arrangements. But I also suspect that she's clinging to her daughter here in an interesting way in a way that might be more than just a mom who wants to stay close with her child. So we have to talk about the other big obstacle to her building her own life, which is that she is very isolated. Yeah, that concerns me. The whole, I know what it's like to live abroad. It can be lonely.

Living abroad, married with a kid, with no job, that's tough, man. Foreign country, very scary, limited options. She lives 14 hours away from her family by plane. Neither. She nor her husband is particularly close with their families, which is an important detail, I think, in two ways, both that she's physically far away from people who might be able to support her and that there might be some reason that they're distant. And what is that reason? How has her past with her family informed everything that she's been through? Her choice and partner, her decision to move to another country. Most importantly, how she feels about herself, whether she feels she has the confidence to build her own life. Obviously, we don't know all of these facts, but I'm sure that all of that

is playing a big role here. And that she chose someone who's also not close with his family. There's some connection there, maybe? Yes, right. They're both refugees from their families. I do wonder if that shared trauma or just the shared experience might have bonded them, but also maybe is that keeping her stuck now. The other thing that's keeping her stuck is that she has no friends, no one to confide in. Yeah, that part made me really sad. Yeah, it is very sad. She's tried to make friends, but she just can't seem to, as she put it, interesting. Clearly there's more to it than just, oh, it just doesn't work for me. This is a skill she needs to work on because this is a crucial asset that she's missing right now that's keeping her trapped. When she said that she has one friend

back home she could talk to, but she doesn't really want to open up to somebody who knows her because she's embarrassed. She's embarrassed that she's let this happen to her. She knows that it's going to damage their opinion of her husband. I mean, that really sums it up, doesn't it? And that is heartbreaking. So here are her two big obstacles to forming the relationships that she really needs to potentially separate and build her own life. The first is shame. She's embarrassed, first and foremost that she's even in this situation and also embarrassed about what someone else might think of her for just struggling. Which, not to put too finite point on it, but I think she's projecting what she thinks about herself onto this friend. She's afraid they're going to meet her with judgment.

When I think it's more likely they're going to meet her with loving compassion. This kind of shame makes vulnerability very difficult. And without that vulnerability, it's almost impossible for anyone to help us. And again, the roots of that shame are probably very old. This might take some time for her to unpack and heal. But as a starting point, I would ask yourself, what precisely you're embarrassed about? What part of you feels too unpleasant or too unworthy of being seen by this friend of yours? I would really sit with that and try to name it if you can. I think that's going to give you a really important insight to yourself. And once you see it clearly, you might not want to let that be the obstacle that it is. I would also ask yourself,

what's more embarrassing? Finding yourself in the situation or finding yourself in the situation and not being able to even talk to somebody about it. Good question. I might go a step further and say, even if there is a good reason to be embarrassed, let's say you have made a few choices that were less than ideal. And again, I'm not judging you. This is more of a thought experiment.

Even if you should be embarrassed for some reason, what would happen if you just allowed yourself to be embarrassed? What would happen if you called this friend and said, listen, I haven't wanted to reach out to you because I'm ashamed. I don't know if that's warranted or not, but that's how I feel. But I need some advice and some support so I can just be embarrassed and tell you what I'm going through.

And can I just ask you to listen and not judge me too much? I seriously doubt you even need to ask your friend to do that. But that would be one way to invite your shame into the conversation and stop it from keeping you paralyzed. I really like that approach.

And also, as we talk about all the time, shame has a way of going away when we just say, hey, I'm ashamed, this is the thing, I'm embarrassed about this, you just call it out. For sure. It also has a way of endearing us to other people.

I think there's something about hearing someone call out their fears or their flaws that just like unlocks our empathy. Yes, for sure. The other obstacle she's facing is that she's afraid that opening up is going to damage this friend's opinion of her husband. That one she really needs to look at right now because part of what she's doing here is protecting him. She's protecting this friend's opinion of him. Yeah, which to go back to this conversation we had last week, what was that letter? Oh yes, about the guy who didn't want to tell his partner about this terrible thing that his father had done. You remember that? Oh, right. I think this in a way is also a form of control. She's controlled. controlling this friend's opinion of her and her husband by not opening up, which taps back into the shame piece, but it might also speak to a part of her that is very concerned about what other people would think of her and what it feels like to not be able to fully control that. So I would pause and ask yourself here too, why am I so concerned about protecting my husband given what he's done? Is protecting him more important than building a lifeline for myself? And also, so what if it damages this person's opinion of her husband? I'm sorry, but this This guy cheated on her. He lied to her over and over. He won't get help. The list goes on and on. I'm just not sure why she's being so loyal to his public image.

Well, there's another great question for her to ask. But again, I do think this comes back to her ultimately. By protecting him, she's protecting herself. The part of herself that in some interesting way is informed by how other people might feel about her and her husband, what her husband might say about her. But then she's also kind of locating that part of herself that she's trying to protect. in this friend accurately or not. And that is very cloaked in this isolating shame that she feels, but it's also probably contributing to that shame. So what seems like just prioritizing her husband is actually probably pretty complicated and it probably ultimately comes back around to her. Man, that's wild. So fascinating. It's just a hall of mirrors, this relating business, isn't it? It sure is. So look, now that we've dug into all these pieces, I think there are actually two different processes happening here. And they're both really important. The first, is what to do about your husband.

The second is how you navigate the challenges of your life in general, how you let other people in, and how those relationships play a role in your outcomes. These two levels of your story are intimately connected, but the second one is where the real work is going to happen. So more than telling you whether to stay or leave, although I think you can tell where I'm leaning on that, my hope for you is that you find the courage,

and I promise you it's there, even if you're not always in touch with it, to share these parts of yourself in your life with other trusted people, starting with this friend back home and invite all of these feelings, the fear, the sadness, the shame, into your conversations, they do not need to paralyze you. They do not need to isolate you if you are willing to face them and share them with people who care about you. If you do that, I know it'll lead you to the right decision here and to a life that you can't even imagine

building right now. Sending you, your daughter, and even your husband, a big hug, you got this. You can reach us Friday at jordanherbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If a shady businessman is possibly trafficking people in an old church next to your house, your neighbors are eaves dropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're trying to decide whether to tell the mother of your future child that your father abused your siblings growing up, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, big or small, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Speaking of email, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter Webit Wiser to Bite Size Jim from a past episode from me to you, to your inbox once a week every Wednesday. If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life at a very practical way, I invite you to come check it out. It's a great companion to the show. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a single woman, not from the U.S. originally, and I work in a very conservative company in the South after being in the South for a long time.

I recently started doing six-minute networking, and some of the contacts I'm interested in reconnecting with professionally are married men. But from comments I hear, a lot of people find it suspicious when a single woman contacts a married man, and probably vice versa. The only strategy I can think of is to send a group message to two would-be connections who know each other instead of individual ones. Has anyone else ever mentioned navigating this while avoiding any stigma? Any ideas here? Signed, trying to make a splash. without sounding like I'm trying to smash. So, candidly, this is news to me.

I've never heard of people in the South, specifically being suspicious when a single woman contacts a married person. Assuming she's being professional and respectful and all that. But I'll take your word for it. Maybe I'm totally disconnected from the rest of the country living in California. Gabe, have you ever heard of this? No, never. If anything, I think women are probably more skeptical about men reaching out to them randomly,

but that's a general thing. I've never heard of that being a Southern thing. Some dudes are clumsy with it, right? or they have ulterior motives. But look, we all know guys tend to holler at women wherever they can. We get letters about dude spitting game in their freaking LinkedIn DMs, which always makes me chuckle. But hey, you meet people wherever you meet them, right? So who might have to judge?

But it is a thing that women have to deal with. Like, does this person genuinely want to connect with me? Or is he low-key hitting on me? Which is admittedly, I'm sure, very annoying. But assuming a single woman has some other agenda when reaching out professionally to a married man in the South, I've never heard that before. So to state the obvious, this is ridiculous. Women and men are all allowed to invest in their relationships,

and if there's some assumption about single women talking to married men in a professional context, that's got to speak way more to something just dumb in our culture or in men's minds. But let's take your word for it. Let's assume this is a real thing that you can't change yourself and you just got to work with it. If that's the case, then first of all, you might want to overcorrect a little and just be super direct in your messages. Maybe you say, I'd love to hear what you're up to at work these days. I'm trying to learn more about such and such industry. What's your take on X specific issue? Whatever it is. Although I just heard myself say this with bias in mind and now I'm afraid that everything I pitch is

going to sound like a coded way to say, I'm thirsty for you, married guy. What's the ugh? But again, the tone of your messages is going to go a long way. Maybe you pull back on the emojis or something. Maybe you talk about having a 15-minute phone call instead of inviting them to coffee, at least at first. Maybe you mentioned some of the other people you've talked to in their field so they know you're not just focused on them, something like that.

And yes, you could send group messages to more than one person, but I also worry that that's going to dilute the power of reaching out to people individually with a clear intention. So I'd only do that if they're kind of a team in some way and you want to get to know both of them

for the same reasons. You know, like, I want to take both of you gentlemen at the same time to Starbucks where we can discuss innovations in the packaging industry. And speaking of back, I hear your company's offering a great one for new employees, so you guys got new openings?

I'm young, dumb, and full of ideas on how to cut costs, specifically in your supply chain logistics. Dude, these are gold. You should just write these down and just lead with this on LinkedIn. You'll be fine. That's right. Seriously, though, do not let this stop you from messaging people one-on-one. I think that direct communication is important. Honestly, whether this is a universal thing in the South or not, I would not let this stop you from building great relationships with men or, women, if it's a thing, it's a thing, and you might have to risk people projecting their own weird assumptions onto you now and again, but I'm confident that most normal, well-adjusted people, certainly the people you want to build meaningful connections with, they'll respond

to your messages in the right way and engage with you as the thoughtful professional you are. And the ones who assume every single woman who writes them is trying to hit on them or worry what their wives will think, maybe they just don't get to enjoy your friendship and that's their loss. It's weird, and that makes them kind of a weird person to be around. focus on the ones who share your values, who take you seriously, you'll be great. I love that you're doing six-minute networking. I know it'll take you to some great people in places, and good luck. And by the way, as this listener is figuring out my six-minute networking course is great

for this stuff. It's 100% free. It is not gross. It is not schmoozy. You can find it on the thinkific platform at six-minute networking.com. Dig the well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. Six-minute networking.com.

It works everywhere in the world, even in the Bible Belt, I promise you. And now it's definitely time for a three-way with you, me, and the amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Our AI chatbot on the website can also surface codes. Or if that doesn't work, you can email me, Jordan atjurbaner.com.

I'll dig that code up for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hi, guys. I live in a condominium building in California with a couple hundred units. Other residents and I suspect that the building manager and some of the other staff are getting paid under the table for allowing certain maintenance or other jobs to get done

when they may not be up to code, or just to look the other way on certain rules and regulations that they should be be enforcing. Also, the building has multiple managers, which is expensive, and it seems like some of them are just walking around doing nothing at times. Some of the staff might even be double dipping by getting paid by certain homeowners to do maintenance jobs when the owners should be paying the homeowners association and not the staff directly. I do think that the building is generally being maintained pretty well, but we're frustrated that the management and staff are not being honest. But I'm afraid to bring some of these issues up because I don't want to be targeted by these people and have it negatively

affect me. It's also possible that some of the board members are involved or just getting special favors, like having their maintenance work done before others who are already in the queue. So I don't really want to bring it up with the board either. Is there a way to anonymously have the books of the building audited or request some type of oversight to see what the managers are actually doing with their time and how different staff members are getting paid, signed trying to discuss whether the books are suss without making a huge fuss. Gabe, it's funny how much condo slash HOA drama we've been getting recently. It feels like an uptick.

Dude, HOAs are kind of insane. My mom sits on the board of her HOA, and it's just like basically a nonstop shit show with the neighbors. Yeah, I've heard just super stressful, always petty crap. It's like running a small country, except you don't get paid at all, and people rarely say thank you. So exactly like running a small country, I suppose, yeah. Actually, it is kind of like running a small country.

It's like being the president of Guam or something. I don't know, but with worse parking than Guam, I would imagine. It makes me happy to live in a house. The only tyrants I have to deal with are my kids, and they actually say thank you or they don't get popsicles. I kind of love that this person is like the HOA vigilante. Yeah. Like the Batman of Condos. Totally.

So something definitely sounds fishy here. And if this is actually happening, it's obviously not cool. My first thought is you said that you and other residents suspect that something is going on, but my first move would be to gather as much solid evidence as possible. You know the drill. Document. If a neighbor tells you they slipped one of the managers a C-note to fix his HVAC before everyone else, write it down, the date, the circumstances, all of it. If you get forwarded a text message between a resident and a handyman doing some off-the-books job, same deal, save it, print it, write it down.

You want to have as much solid evidence that this is happening before you take action. Once you do that or while you do that, you have a few options. Option one, you can request a financial audit of your building. Under most state laws governing condos, owners are entitled to request access to financial records and audits. In California, for example, members of an HOA have a right to inspect financial documents, budgets, income statements, receipts, all that. So you could submit a written request to the HOA board or the property management company if you have one and ask for an independent audit of the financial records citing the relevant laws. In this request, I would say, hey, just FYI, this is a routine matter. It doesn't imply any accusations.

I just want to ensure compliance and transparency. Although I have to think that the building is going to understand the subtext of that. And if there is shady stuff going on, they're probably going to assume the worst, right? Yeah, I can't imagine they'd be like, oh, totally cool and normal here, just an audit, nothing to worry about. Yeah, it's fine. This would also obviously require you to be the face of this and confront the HOA directly, which I know you don't want to do. So option two is you can report this anonymously to local regulatory agencies. That would be the Department of Housing or Local Housing Authority in your state.

Could also be the local chapter of your state attorney general's office, the California Bureau of Real Estate might be helpful. You can also consult with the Homeowners Protection Bureau. They offer a guide to California HOA laws. But we also looked up what the California Attorney General says about this. And their website says if you suspect criminal activity by an HOA, you should file a report with the police or sheriff's department. And if they look into it, they might send the case to the county DA's office for prosecution, if appropriate. But honestly, just knowing what I know about California would not hold my breath for this. These agencies usually have forms on their websites that you can fill out, maybe you can send them something by snail mail or pick up the phone

and ask. Also, some HOAs and management companies have a way to submit anonymous complaints, although if the board and or the management company are the ones behind these shenanigans, something tells me they're going to read it and just crumple it up. Or who knows? Maybe it'll spook them into cleaning up their act like, oh, crap, they're onto us, we've got to stop. Your third option is, if you can prove that board members are complicit in favoritism or mismanagement, you and the other owners can petition to hold a special election or remove board members. Check your HOA's bylaws or articles of incorporation for how that works. Most state laws require a petition signed by a certain percentage of the owners to initiate a

recall or a special meeting. I mean, again, once you initiate a recall, I feel like they're going to know something wrong, even a special meeting request. So just be prepared for that. You also have a few less official, maybe more creative things you could do. You guys could form some kind of informal committee of like-minded residents to talk about what you guys are seeing in the building and compile your documentation, come up with strategies to solve this, and then maybe you guys jointly present to the HOA at the next meeting, if the board hears this from 15 of you guys, as opposed to just one, that will probably make them sit up and pay attention. It might also take some of the heat off of you.

You could also go to the board members and say, hey, we want to suggest doing some kind of like quarterly financial summaries and having open meetings. We just want to like trust how the building is being managed, that kind of thing. That way you can push for changes or make it hard. harder for the board to hide what they might be doing without directly accusing anybody in particular. Even easier, though, than all of that, maybe you just encourage other residents to use the official channels for maintenance requests and payments and all of that. Maybe you spread the word through the building over some kind of like neighbor's WhatsApp group or a bulletin board in the

lobby or whatever. That might be enough to reduce all of these off-the-books transactions without getting too aggressive. Yep. And if all that fails, maybe you propose that the building hire a neutral, professional property management consultant to evaluate operations and efficiency. Obviously, the HOA will have some feelings about that, which again might not be a bad thing, but you can frame it as a way to protect the financial health of the condo, not as an investigation. Some states offer community mediation programs for HOAs. Some of them are government run. Some are run by non-profits. So Google that and see what comes up. And while you do all this, I would also consider leaning into this conflict a little more. I know it sucks. I know it's exposing, but you can't stand up to bad actors without

being willing to feel the heat a little bit. And if you gather a bunch of great documentation, you'll probably feel a lot more empowered to stand up to these people. Whereas just going on rumors and suspicion, that puts you on much shakier grounds. Do your homework first, then act. Sorry this is happening to you, but I hope you can hold these people accountable and clean up your HOA. You got your work cut out for you. Good luck. All right. And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler. My recommendation of the week is a blue light blocking reading light. It's also known as an amber book light. This is an amber colored reading lamp that clips onto the back of your book or your

notebook or whatever lets you read and write in the dark. Apparently there are tons of benefits to it. They say that it enhances your visual clarity. It improves contrast. Reduces glare. It allows your eyes to focus more easily. The main benefit seems to be that it promotes better sleep because you're not taking in that blue light. You're just getting that orange light, which is much better. Less eye strain. It's more relaxing. It achieves perfect brightness, all of that. I got to say, for something under, I don't know, this thing is not expensive. Under 20 bucks, this product has been a game changer for me. I love using it. I use it before bed every night when I read. It's also great for traveling on airplanes. You don't have to turn on that overhead light that annoys everybody in your

row. It's really great for traveling, for camping. It also makes for a great gift for people, especially readers. So we're going to link to one I really like in the show notes, but there are so any options out there. The one I'm going to include has been especially good, solid little product. I hope you like it. All right. Also, in case you all didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show, if you want to jump into discussions, Gabe and I are on there. If you're a Redditor, come join us in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. There's a meme thread and all kinds of fun stuff going on in there. All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, a good friend of mine is an avid traveler who loves venturing off the beaten path. As a fellow adventurer, I understand the appeal, but she's starting to

explore increasingly dangerous countries. She's been talking about visiting North Korea for a while, and now she's officially booked a trip to Afghanistan. And I'm genuinely worried about her. I've tried to talk her out of it, but she insists that she's using a reputable tour company, understands the risks, and accepts them. She's promised to monitor the situation and cancel if things get worse, but with the Taliban's ongoing attacks on women's rights, I feel like she's taking a huge and unnecessary risk. I've even tried getting her to listen to your show, especially your episodes on North Korea, but she quote unquote doesn't like podcasts. So I figured I'd ask you to directly, given your travel expertise. Am I overreacting? If not, how can I try to dissuade her from going?

Or should I just step back and accept that it's her life and her decision? Signed, trying to set fire to my friend's desire to visit the graveyard of empires. Yeah, so this one worries me a little and I am not one of those people who's like, well, the State Department elevated the risk level in Honduras from one to two. Most of the time, even somewhat dangerous countries can still be enjoyable. There's just an elevated risk of crime. But Afghanistan, right now, I don't know. This just does not seem like a place you really want to go. Certainly not as a woman, an American woman.

There's just too many unknowns for me. I did a quick goog on this, and that seems to be the consensus online as well. Highly dangerous for all U.S. citizens. Elevated risks above that for women. Level 4, travel advisory from the State Department, that's high enough to give me pause. Risk of civil unrest, crime, terrorism, wrongful detention, kidnapping. If you get sick or injured, you could be in major trouble. There's no U.S. embassy in Kabul anymore.

So if you get into a scrape, the U.S. is going to be very limited in its ability to provide consular services and help you out. Look, Gabe and I went to North Korea a bunch of times. We had some incredible times there. I'm so glad we got to experience it. But when we were going, it wasn't actively dangerous unless you tried to go looking for trouble by breaking as many rules as possible. So I get the extreme travel itch.

I really do. But at a certain point, this kind of thing can be just reckless. So my initial take was, hell no, don't go. And then I reached out to my friend Jill Kornetsky, who's a consultant, researcher, analyst, and social entrepreneur based in Kabul.

And she had a slightly different take. Her first thought was, your friend's safety depends on a lot of things. The main one being, okay, what's the tour company? because she said a lot of people have seen YouTube videos with foreigners with the Taliban or whatever and they get a lot of clicks. So they decided they do tours now.

Basically with the crap economy, they're going to always follow the money. Jill said that tour operators might not be dangerous for her. They might just not know what they're doing at all. And she wanted to know, okay, what are they charging? What are they promising? What references do they have? What experience do they have? She said a lot of them have zero experience.

And that is not good. How are they going to guide her? What housing arrangements are they offering when they leave Kabul? These are the practical questions that she would really want some good answers to. Also, where does she want to visit? How is she going to get there? Where will they stay along the way? Some places apparently have safe, clean, decent hotels to stay at.

Other places, not so much. And the reason that this matters is Jill said that if your friend is at risk of kidnap, or worse, it wouldn't be walking around, being a tourist in some market. It's going to be where somebody knows she's going to be, and the security's no good. and then they have time and opportunity to set something up. That's just one more reason that the tour company she's going with is crucial. Jill was also curious to get to know what your friend's background is, what her goals and intentions are.

She said there's a few things that get people arrested in Afghanistan on the regular. Big one is evangelizing. Just like North Korea, she said people keep coming here to spread the word of God or whatever in a Taliban-controlled Islamic environment, and they're surprised when they end up in jail. She says it's not a small thing to the Taliban or their, many locals and even tourists should absolutely not do that. Jill also wanted to make sure your friend was prepared for the infrastructure.

She said it's a beautiful country, but depending on where your friend goes, what she does, there will be times with no electricity. There's going to be a lot of pit toilets, squat toilets, there's going to be limitations on options for food, definitely limitations on options for entertainment after dark. Almost nobody will speak any English, but everyone will want to talk to her and practice whatever English they do know. men are going to want to take photos with her.

As Jill explained, this is not another modern country with some ancient sites. This is very underdeveloped. Her tour guide needs to be able to handle these things for her, aka have experience and not just be like, yeah, bro, let's go. A last few practical tips, your friend can't and should never share a room with a local man at any time under any circumstances. It won't be allowed, and culturally it is not normal for him, and it may be taken as an invitation for untoward behavior. which she might not have any recourse if that happens. Also, Jill's advice is she should not take local buses. Too much risk of pickpocketing or being bothered in some way. She doesn't need an armored car or anything, but she does need a reliable one. Because if you get a breakdown in the middle

of nowhere, AAA is not just a phone call away. Let's put it that way. And Jill recommended finding a company with a female translator, if possible. So to quote her here, this is doable if she's smart and aware of her surroundings. In general, she'll be treated well, including by the Taliban. They're ordered to treat foreigners with kid gloves unless they are literally ISIS, trafficking drugs, evangelizing, or doing spy stuff. And it can be safe if her expectations and preparations are reasonable. So what I would do is share all this with your friend, talk to her about her plans. If she won't listen to this episode, you can share the transcript with her, you can tell her what you learn. The main thing you want to pin down is just how reputable and safe this tour company is,

is, and whether she's truly prepared logistically and mentally for what this country is like. And hey, maybe you realize she really has done her homework. She's in good hands. She understands the risk. You can feel more at ease. Or maybe you help her see that she has not really thought this through at all. And she either makes better plans or she scraps the trip altogether. But if she is going, I would give her as many resources as you can, whether it's information about the security situation there, how to follow local laws and customs, the phone number and address of the nearest friendly embassy. I believe the embassy of Qatar is the protecting power for the U.S. in Afghanistan right now. Maybe you find stories of Americans who've safely visited there since

they handover to the Taliban. You try to figure out how they traveled, who they traveled with, how they navigated any bumps in the road, stuff like that. That's really all you can do. She's an adult. I'm hoping she's a savvy traveler and in her right mind, and she's ultimately going to have to make her own choices and live with the consequences. And that could be a hard thing for a friend to watch, because you don't have control. And there's a world where you might have to stand by while. she gets into a dicey situation. But that's where you need to let her live her life and just set her up as well as possible for this decision. You know, Jordan, when I decided to go back to

North Korea, I think it was the second time or maybe the third time, my mom was really worried. And she actually got quite angry at me for going back after, you know, we talked pretty publicly about some of the dark stuff that happens there. And she straight up told me, like, you are out of your mind for going back. And my position at the time was, look, I've done my homework. I've talked the tour company, they say that it's perfectly safe for me. I know how this place works. I'm not looking for trouble. I'm going to be fine. Looking back, honestly, she had a very fair point, but part of the reason that I decided to go back, and this is not entirely logical or responsible, but it was a big part of my decision, is that I just didn't want to be told what to do by someone else, certainly not my mom as an

adult. And I didn't want to live a smaller life to make somebody else comfortable. Although now I completely understand why a parent would be freaked out that their child wants to go back to North Korea. Now that I'm older, I see it differently. Yeah, I totally get that. It's different when you're older. It's very different when you're a parent. Of course. The thing is, the conversation we had back then wasn't, you know, what are your reasons for going? Here are my concerns. Tell me what you've learned. Is it really worth the risk? Let's figure this out together. It was more like, you're wrong, you're insane. I'm really upset. End of story. So it ended up becoming a standoff. And in the end, the trip was totally fine. So I guess I was right, but my mom was also right in the sense that

the risk probably was not worth the reward, although I did have a pretty epic time the second time. So there's that. The reason I bring this up is her friend is obviously very adventurous, probably pretty confident. She might have some pride and some identity wrapped up in being the sort of person who travels to Afghanistan. So having a friend tell her, hey, you're crazy, don't do this. I wonder if that might bring up some similar feelings for her. Maybe she resents being told what to do. Maybe she doesn't want to miss these interesting experiences in order to make our friend here feel comfortable. Maybe she feels like she would be admitting fear or vulnerability if she canceled.

Maybe hearing somebody tell her how crazy this trip actually is is putting her in touch with some tension or even some embarrassment about doing something this risky. And so she's brushing off her friend and doubling down to ward off that discomfort. Yeah, I could see that, which might explain the whole, I'm not going to listen to. of those episodes you sent me. I don't like podcast. Just fingers in the ear, la, la, la, an attitude that I candidly find pretty immature, but also understandable from certain people to a degree. Looking back, I felt all of those things when my mom told me not to go to North Korea again. So if you want to give this one more shot with your friend, you might want to invite her to talk more about this stuff, you know, what this trip ultimately means to her, what not going might mean

to her, what she would think or feel if she canceled, what it's like for her to hear you say, hey, I'm really worried. I'm not sure you should go. You know, how she's responding to that. Why it feels so important for her to stick to her guns and go through with us, knowing that there are serious risks. And just try not to lead her to any conclusion. Try not to judge her responses. Just invite her to talk. Maybe what she shares with you will make you realize that this trip for her is worth the risk. Or maybe that it's not as risky as it seems. Or maybe it'll show her that this actually is a very reckless idea and she's going to change her mind on her own. Or she'll still want to go. but she'll feel heard and understood

and maybe she'll see why she's being so headstrong and then you can work around some of those defenses and maybe potentially convince her not to go without provoking this anger or shame or cognitive dissonance. Although given everything Jordan learned from his friend, I am not 100% convinced that she needs to cancel, but you kind of have to hold all of those things at the same time.

I do think that this conversation is the best bet for arriving at the best possible outcome for her and for you. I totally agree. that might mean ending up in the exact same place, having to watch your friend go on this extreme trip and surrender to whatever happens, but at least you'll know that you did everything you could and you'll understand why this trip is so important to her. But look, as much as I think this is a dicey idea, I also want you to remember that she might be totally fine. So don't torture yourself more than you have to. I know it's hard, but just keep an eye on that. It seems to me that this is

an interesting opportunity for you to learn how to accept and surrender and for her to trust her research and intuition and live with her choices, both of which are important. Whatever she does, I sincerely, sincerely hope your friend stays safe. I hope she has a great time if she goes or as good a time as you can have in Afghanistan, not super high on my list. And I hope you guys get to grab a burq a free drink when she returns soon. And hey, who knows? Maybe after this trip she'll also end up on super weird but fascinating Zoom meetings to overthrow the Taliban from a distance. It happened to us, it can happen to her. Just tell her that's an even worse idea than evangelizing on the streets of Kabul in the first place, just a total waste of time.

All right, y'all, go back and check out Jay Dobbins, if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts at Jordan Harbinger.com. Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger. com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sedlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger Show with former NBA superstar and American icon, Shaquille O'Neill. I'm flicking the channels and I see L.O. Coo-Jat. I'm going to be a rapper. Say, flip the channel again, I see a guy doing a great sitcom. I want to be an actor. Of course, I'm a sports guy. I want to be Frank O'Harris, the Immaculate Conception. I want to be Reggie Jackson hit a home run.

My father made me write from A to C what I wanted to be. So A was a basketball player, B was a basketball player. I actually got in trouble for that. Dr. Jay changed my life. Dr. Jay was the guy that said, okay, now I know what I want to be when I grew up. I had some good grades, and my father took me to a game. We're way up in Madison Square Garden, probably the top row. Boring game, Dr. J. Gove baseline, throw it down.

The whole arena stands out. It actually scared me because I thought something was happening. And I look at my dad as I know what I want to be when I grow up dad. I want to be down there. I've won on every level except college. Little League, A.U., Olympics, Junior Olympics. So as a youngster, when I used to play and win, he would let me celebrate the trophy one day. I come home after school and be gone.

and he was the type you never asked him where's the trophy. So if I finally asked him when I got older and he said, I did it because I never want you to be satisfied. I want you to always want more as a player. So even as a youngster when I was a player and I wasn't that good, that wasn't stopping me because I knew that because of my work ethic, I was going to be somebody. And once I saw Dr. Shea, it's all about believing.

I got to ask, or people are going to get mad, what's going on with the flat earth thing? Are you just messing with everybody with that? It seems to be flat. Would you like to hear my theory? To hear more about how Shaq makes important business decisions and manages his expansive career, check out episode 691 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

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