The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1219: Redheads | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: October 5, 2025

Redheads are bullied, fetishized, and medically misunderstood. Jessica Wynn is here to color in the facts about being a ginger on this Skeptical Sunday!Welcome to Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show where Jordan and a guest break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up, and debunk common misconceptions. This time around, we’re joined by writer and researcher Jessica Wynn!Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1219On This Week's Skeptical Sunday:The MC1R gene mutation causes red hair, pale skin, and freckles, but also influences pain processing, drug metabolism, and other biological functions throughout the body.Redheads experience pain differently — they tolerate electric shocks better but are more sensitive to heat and cold, requiring adjusted medical treatment approaches.Redheads have significantly higher melanoma risk because they produce less protective melanin, making sunscreen essential and frequent sun exposure dangerous.Redheads face ongoing discrimination and fetishization — from childhood bullying to adult harassment — despite red hair being a normal genetic variation affecting one to two percent of the population.Research on redheads' unique genetics is advancing pain treatment for everyone. Understanding genetic diversity helps medicine better serve all patients, not just those with red hair.Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know!Connect with Jessica Wynn at Instagram and Threads, and subscribe to her newsletters: Between the Lines and Where the Shadows Linger!And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors:SimpliSafe: 50% off + 1st month free: simplisafe.com/jordanAirbnb: airbnb.com/hostApretude: Apretude.com or call 1-888-240-034Quiltmind: Email [e-mail] to get started or visit quiltmind.com for more infoWhat Was That Like: Listen here or wherever you find fine podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you do. get your podcasts. Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, we do Skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may

have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as Reiki Healing, ear-candling, self-help cults, bottled water, diet pills, and energy drinks. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. It's funny, Jessica, we started. I think our very first skeptical Sunday was ear-candling, and I thought, oh, here's something that some people do, and it doesn't really do anything,

and it's kind of a scam, but no one's going to get super upset about it. I thought this is going to be a relatively non-controversial start to skeptical Sunday. And what amazed me, but I guess shouldn't have and is now just played out over every episode of this show, is people. People will die on the hill that something that they believe in is not BS. How dare you try and take away my ear candle? And you would think ear candling, like no one's, people are just going to go, oh, I've been doing that for years. I guess it doesn't worry. Silly me or like, I don't believe you and they'll just keep doing it.

No, I got vitriolic emails. The funniest ones were from like white, blonde people who are like, I'm one 7,000th Cherokee. And this goes way back to the tribe of or whatever, you know, Indian tribe, Native American tribe. And I remember, it's funny because, of course, we fact check these episodes. And we didn't do as much of that back then, but we do now. But then I was like, I better check this one. So I called, it was supposed to be like, oh, this goes back to the Sioux Indians. So I called this Sioux Tribe and I was like, this is so random, but I have a question.

And they had this historian person be like, yeah, no, that's just one of those, the many things where they say Native Americans thought of it and like dumb hippies buy it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Native Americans. And no, we don't do ear candling. Where do these tales come from? Out of my dead cold ear, you'll take my candle. Exactly. And so I just thought, how funny is it that this person's like, you're offending my Native American history?

And I call the authority at the tribe. And he's like, yeah, no. First of all, we'd never do that and we don't do that. And if it's a BS and that's what you found, you're probably correct. And I remember something funny. He was like, look, we have a long and storied spiritual tradition. It's not really science. And I was just like, thank you for, I mean, this guy, why don't you?

You should host Skeptical Sunday. Meanwhile, some esthetician who sells it to her clients, and again, her great, great-grandfather was one-80th Cherokee is like so deeply offended that we got a one-star review and a scathing Instagram DM. I just, it's kind of a common story with Skeptical Sunday, actually. Yeah, I don't share all the messages I get from listeners of Skeptical Sunday. Make my Sunday mornings start with a laugh for sure. So people find you, even though we don't list your contact information, and they're like, I just want to tell you how wrong you are. Yes, sometimes they're pleasant, but often it's, this is my understanding of it and your facts don't match my facts kind of things. Yeah, yeah. Your facts that you got from research don't match the facts that I have that I just know are true even though I've done no research.

Yeah, oh, well, can, like I'm so interested to know and I'm wrong. Can you send me the citation? And then you never hear from them again usually. Citation, no, my buddy told me about it and he's really smart. Yeah. Yeah. When I took Iowa Haskah, they had ear candles. Yeah, yeah. So you're wrong. Trump card research scientist. Anyway, today we're talking about redheads, a group accused of everything from being temperamental to being tied to the devil to not doing their research on skeptical Sunday.

To my favorite, being witches who turn into vampires when they die, allegedly. Dermatologists stress over their sunburns, South Park mocks them, and yet they walk among us. So is it just about red hair? Are they magical? Are they cursed? or are they just genetically spicy? To color in the facts, I'm joined by a redhead and friend of the show, writer and researcher Jessica Wynne. So, Jess, how long have you been a witch?

Well, I guess that depends on who you ask, but back in medieval Europe, it was absolutely believed that redheads are witches. But modern sciences were just genetic oddballs. So the redhead stereotype goes deeper than drinking whiskey neat and having a bad temper? Yeah, I mean, there is that. but there's a lot of cultural curiosity. Redhead, ginger, take your pick, though. Not every redhead loves being called a ginger. It can feel like a slur depending how it's used, but you and I, safe space.

Right, safe space, no name calling. Except we've all heard redheads are crazy, soulless. Not me. South Park did a whole episode about it. My speech is entitled, Ginger Kids, Children with Red Hair, Light Skin, and Freckles. We've all seen them on the playground. at the store walking on the streets. They creep us out and make us feel sick to our stomachs.

I'm talking, of course, about ginger kids. Oh, sick. Gross! Ginger kids are born with a disease, which causes very light skin, red hair, and freckos. Ah, nasty, yuck! This disease is called gingervitis. And it occurs because ginger kids have no souls. Kids who have gingeritis cannot be cured.

Gross! Yack! Because their skin is so light, Ginger kids must avoid the soul. sun, not unlike vampires. Some people have red hair, but not light skin and freckles. These people are called daywalkers. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. And unless we work to rid the earth of that curse, the gingers could envelop our lives in blackness for all time. It is time that we all admit to ourselves that gingers are vile and disgusting. And that episode, hilarious, really funny. But then TikTok piles on that idea, ginger hunting became an actual thing.

People were filming themselves harassing redheads. Instagram accounts mock redheads. There's entire Reddit threads debating whether ginger's have souls. It's a whole thing. But ginger hunting sounds less like teasing and more like a hay crime. Yeah. I mean, when thank God there wasn't social media when I was a kid. I don't know if I would have survived.

But when I was a kid, I got called freckle. freak and the devil's spawn. And that was just in elementary school. Now it's viral. I mean, I've been teased, spit on, and hit on. Don't get me started on the bad pickup lines. Which one do you prefer? No, are you, is it, are you a firecracker in bed?

Can I buy you a red-headed slut? Oh, no, it's for sure. So, does the carpet match the- Okay, ding, ding, ding, ding, yes. The answers are no, no, and please just stop, talk. You know, redheads are cocktails or kinks. The assumptions about redheads are wild. I've actually been asked more than once if redheads are allowed to donate blood.

Side note, we are. Yeah, but just not during daylight or during the full moon, right? Right, right, right. I mean, this folklore goes back centuries, though. During the witch trial days, redheads were found unlucky, untrustworthy, even demonic. The mentality was like, oh, no, our crops failed. Clearly the problem is the woman with the red locks. Burn her. All hair color still comes with personality stereotypes. The blondes are dumb. Burnettes are smart. Redheads are fiery. I don't know.

Blue hair hate the government. I don't know. Pretty much. But ginger's get teased relentlessly. What Jessica Rabbit did to my formative years is, I don't know. In middle school, I was given a nickname that stuck for years. Do you want to hear it? Do I? Fire muff. Well, there goes the explicit rating or the not explicit rating of this episode. That's not a nickname. That's embarrassing.

We're definitely not going to call you that on the show from now on or anything. Wow, as a kid, huh? Yikes. Yeah, try being 13 and explaining that to your mom. Did she need it explained or did she just need to know what it was? Because I feel like it's self-explanatory. Is it not? I don't know.

Depends how shelter your mom is. Mom's like to spin everything. Oh, it's nice. Like, no, they're not, they're not being nice, mom. But the teasing doesn't stop. It just hits different as an adult. You'd be shocked at the number of times I've had women in locker rooms comment on my pubic hair. Like, excuse me, I'm just here to throw on my gym clothes, not do show and tell, honest.

Wow. I don't, so that's strange to me. I don't think guys would do that to each other. I'm trying to imagine how that even goes down. Hey, man. Wow. nice pubs on that dung there way too invasive way too invasive I guess that answers for us the whole carpet matching the curtains thing you didn't want to talk about before there's cultural trauma

but let's talk I still can't believe women are that I figured you all ignored each other in there just like we do I mean you talk with guys but like the it's sort of like let's just all talk like we're not naked right now that's kind of what happens in a locker room yeah at least such an interesting observational study to see the different yeah the different in locker room. What is locker room talk? That's right. So, okay, let's talk genetics. Why do redheads even exist? What makes a redhead a redhead? Well, it's about something everyone has, a gene called the melanocortin one receptor or the MC1R. It tells your cells what kind of pigment to make for your hair, skin, and eyes. In redheads, the MC1R gene mutations reroute the signals and tell the cells

to make very little pigment. That means red hair, pale skin, and tragic sunburns. Okay, so redheads are mutants then. I think the more polite term is rare. And if you've got red hair and blue eyes, that's the rarest combo on Earth. According to evolutionary biologists, the odds are 0.17%. That's only about 13 million people out of the 8 billion on Earth. So what color are your eyes?

Blue. Wow. You are really a freak then. Yeah. Yeah, guilty. So why is this combo so rare? Because both traits are recessive. Okay.

So statistically, it's just very unlikely. You need two sets of the redhead mutant gene, one from each parent, for the trait to show up. And then they each have to pass it down. That's why two brunettes can still have a redheaded baby. They both just have to be carriers. It's like a ginger lottery ticket. Yeah, sort of. Pigmentation starts with melanin, the stuff that colors our skin and hair.

There's cells called melanocytes that package pigment into melanos, which get delivered to your skin and hair cells. Humans make two different kinds of melanin, U-melon, which is the darker pigments, and theo melanin, which are the lighter ones. Redheads just crank out way more pheomelan. Which is why every redhead I know is either hiding under a parasol and or slathered in SPF 1000. Yeah, I mean, and for good reason. Melanin isn't just your color. It's like your UV bodyguard. It absorbs radiation, protects from cellular damage, and it's like a shock absorber of ultraviolet light.

So without enough, you melanin, you burn fast. The process is called apoptosis, where your skin gets inflamed, blood vessels expand, and boom, boom, sunburn. So the more fio melanin, the faster you burn. And not only that, but this damage can lead to a lot of different skin cancers. So now I guess I'm understanding the vampire comparison, but why is there such a wide spectrum of hair and skin tones? That's probably a dumb question. But whatever. Yeah. I mean, and as far as the vampire thing, probably, you know, sunscreen's only been around since the 70s. So Redheads probably did only come out at night, which sparked these rumors, right? But the MCE, one of the one.

our gene, it's not acting alone. So research suggests there are at least eight other genes that influence the red hair expressions. So it's not just like one switch being flipped. It's like a whole genetic circuit board. Is there any way to know what traits people are likely to pass down? There's no definitive way, but you can figure out the probability using what's called a punnet square. It's a diagram that maps possible gene combinations from two parents. And there's so many combinations. That's why siblings don't look alike. No, I had three siblings, but I'm the only redhead. My brother has brown hair, but a red beard. Jeans just express themselves in many different ways. So I guess what do you say? What would you say? The drapes don't match the carpet,

or I don't know how that's. For him, it would be. Yeah. So you can, so gross, gross pickup line. So you can carry a genetic trait without showing it. Okay. Yes, that makes sense. But does the whole thing with redheads go beyond skin and hair? I've actually heard redheads don't. don't feel pain as much or something along those lines. Is that real? That sounds fake. Yeah. I mean, this is where it definitely gets weird. So the MC1R gene isn't just about pigment. It's involved in a bunch of biological processes, including pain processing. And studies show redheads, they do feel pain, but they experience it differently than other people. So redheads produce lower levels of a protein called POMC, and that protein breaks down into two key hormones, one that

boosts pain perception and another that blocks it. Redheads end up with more of the pain blocker and less of the pain booster. And there's even studies that show redheads tolerate more electric shocks and stabbing pains than those with different colored hair. But at the same time, redheads are They're just, they're more sensitive to thermal pain, like heat and the cold. That's so weird. So you'd shrug off a taser, but if somebody opens a window, you collapse. I mean, that's pretty accurate. That's what the research says. A lot of more research needs to go into the MC1R gene, but that tracks with my behavior. And it's anecdotal, but I am always cold, but you could stitch my finger without numbing me. Like, I've done that. So a university of Louisville study

suggests that MC1R gene, it overactivates temperature detecting cells. So when a redhead says they're cold, grab them a blanket. They're feeling cold. But the relationship between red hair and pain perception, it's complex and it's not fully understood. And not every redhead has the same response, right? So don't go punch your ginger friend for fun. Freaky. And I mean that in the best way possible. Shop sure. And it doesn't stop there. Redheads metabolism seems to work differently.

Redheads appear to have a complicated relationship with anesthesia because the MC1R gene mutation, it messes with our opioid receptors that the MC1R gene carries. I see. Wait, how are we figuring this out? Are researchers stabbing and shocking redheads? Are there ginger lab mice? Yes, there are redheaded mice. Wow.

experiments. First of all, I demand a Pixar film. Finding Ginger, a feel-good story about a mouse with self-esteem issues who gets into the ibuprofen. I love it. I love it. Give them Scottish accents and kilts, and I would definitely watch that. For sure. But these mice, like redheads, have higher pain thresholds because of their mutated MC1R gene. And just like in people, the difference in pigment produced meant that redheaded mice produce more pain blockers and fewer pain boosters. So it sounds like your pigment-making cells are communicating with your nervous system somehow? Is that a thing? It seems to be, yeah. And studies find that gender also plays a role. There's a lot more studies with female redheads and women with red hair have a greater tolerance to pain than men with red hair.

But you said anesthesia affects redheads differently. Why is that? Yeah, this research is a little messy. So back in 2004, there was a study that claimed redheaded women needed 19% more des fluorine, which is a general anesthetic than other hair colors. Does that mean if you pick up a drug habit, it'll be 19% more expensive because that's a bummer, actually. I don't think so. You're like a biological choose your own adventure. That's so weird. Yeah, I mean, kind of. The problem with it. that study, though, is that it was really, really tiny. Just 20 white women. 20. That's not a study. That's a book club. And I know people are like, well, the only redheads

that there are are white women. And I hope we get into this, but that's not true. I've actually, my mom taught in a school that was mostly African American. And she said there were tons of kids with red hair. Yeah. I mean, it's just a mutated gene. It happens for no matter how dark your skin is. It can happen in your hair expression for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's super cool. is super cute on kids, as you might imagine. I know. You see little African-American kids with like bright right here. Yeah, it's adorable.

But yeah, a sample says a 20, basically, to your point, not a lot going on there. That's kind of... Yeah, not a lot. And then researchers scaled up this study in 2015, and they used over 6,000 patients. But that study found Redhead showed no significant difference in anesthesia needed. So I was surprised myself by this because my whole life, I've believed, anesthesia was tricky for us. And that was just conventional wisdom, but there's no scientific evidence. I definitely have had doctors tell me that, but I've only needed general anesthesia once.

So doctors told you that, but not anesthesiologists. So the big anesthesia conspiracy is a ginger urban legend. I'm actually surprised by how often doctors don't know anything about anesthesia. And I will tell you, in their defense, I've got a buddy who's an anesthesiologist, close friend of mine. he also says, hey, frankly, we don't actually know how all of this stuff works at every level. Anesthesia is so freaky. It really is terrifying. It's kind of like, like, okay, so you're an expert on this and people with their lives in your hands, and he's like, correct. I know how to administer it.

I know how to solve problems with it. But once you get into how it works deeply in the brain, at least your general everyday anesthesiologist at a hospital, he doesn't know how this stuff works. Maybe people who are really big in the scientific research and can explain it better, but he's like, I'm pretty sure there's just a lot of like, we don't know exactly how this works when it comes to anesthesia. I think that's just everything with our medicine. Medicine, especially our brains and genes and things. Yeah. But I mean, the thing with these studies focusing on specifically redheads is that they're just inconclusive at best. There just hasn't been enough solid research. though the MC1R gene, it does mess with the body in interesting ways. It sounds less like myth-busting and it's myth-mutating. Yeah, I think I mean for sure.

Yeah. The MC1R gene and therefore redheads are still a big weird mystery. There was a 2021 mouse study that even linked the redheaded gene to higher pain thresholds. And the researchers concluded from that that the MC1R gene also is. influences how we process painkillers, drugs, and alcohol. South Park says Ginger's don't have souls, but you know who does? The amazing sponsors who support this show. Let's see what they got before we come back with more myths, mutants, and maybe even a little

witchcraft. We'll be right back. Don't forget about our newsletter. It's called We BitWiser. It comes out just about every Wednesday. It's a very practical rubber meets the road bite from a past show. It's from us to you. It's a two-minute read, if that.

And we love writing these things. As you all love reading them, you can always hit reply, and we get a lot of engagement on these. I'd love to see you there. It's a great companion to the show. Jordan Harbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. So this feels like evolution having a bit of fun with this MC1, Arjean, almost. I think so.

I mean, tell me about it. Opioids, for instance, in redheads, they work too well. They are more effective in redheads because smaller doses hit harder and less is needed to get the same relief or high than people with other hair types. But then the effect of that wears off quicker. Ah, okay. So maybe the cheaper high that's also short-lived cancels each other out. Disregard what I said above about saving 20% off your smack bill.

Yeah, I don't know. Hopefully I won't have to find out. But I think redheads, they just have to get high more often. Yeah, that might actually explain why my red-headed friends slams this, you know, one white claw and goes from sober to karaoke in like 10 minutes. It hits them fast, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's evidence that redheads do get tipsy faster, but then they can drink for longer periods of time.

So personally, I once fell out of a dental chair because the gas hit me so fast. Fun. Fun. That one time I had it, it took absolutely forever for me to wake up. And back when I used to drink, I could have a six-pack at the pre-party and then go out for martinis. So anecdotally, I mean, redheads seem to metabolize. things differently, but it just isn't widely studied. So medicine doesn't know if redheads are superhuman or just badly wired? Or maybe it's, maybe it's other things about you? I mean, I guess that's the

debate, right? But the MC1R gene definitely affects pigment. It also definitely interacts with brain pathways for pain. And some scientists even argue the variants that affect pain aren't the same ones that make your hair red. So we just know so little, but we do know something is up with this MC1R gene. Translation being, you can't just look at a ginger and go, better double up the morphine, doc. Right. And the medical consensus right now is don't treat redheads based on hair color alone. So anesthesiologists will tailor the dose to each patient anyway based on vitals and monitoring during surgery. It's just kind of another way redheads get the side eye. I see. Okay. So you're like a super complicated lab rat. Okay, but do redheads actually drink more than those without the recession?

of gene or is that another Irish-based stereotype kind of thing? I mean, the data points to Redheads having a particular affinity for alcohol that others don't. It seems to be related to metabolism and pain sensitivity and less severe hangover symptoms. Ultimately, it's just important to understand that while genetics do play a role, tolerance to alcohol is determined by a variety of factors, not just genes. So lifestyle and body chemistry matter too. the complex relationship between redheads and alcohol is still being sorted out, but heredity and the body's reaction to alcohol do seem to interact. But it's not like AA meetings or redhead

conventions. Right. Yeah, that's true. So let me get this straight. Redheads might need more anesthesia, but less morphine can tolerate electric shocks but freeze under a snowflake. Do medical schools actually teach this stuff? I have to assume that they do. Yeah, they do. Med students learn that redheads respond differently to certain drugs. So for example, topical or injectable anesthetics like lydocane, they often work less effectively. So higher doses probably needed for your redheaded patients. But then there's that paradox that they need lower doses of opioid painkillers like morphine. So every anesthesiologist has some sort of secret ginger manual somewhere on their bookshelf? I think so. I mean, they should have a manual for every patient. But,

Yeah, research shows the MC1R gene influences receptors all over the body. And because it's mutated, redheads react oddly to so many substances. And by studying it, scientists might actually unlock new pain treatments for everyone, regardless of hair color. So redheads are saving the world one light a case shot at a time, I guess. Yeah. And it's not just humans, right? The MC1R mutation shows up across the animal kingdom.

I'm like cats, for instance, male ginger cats are far more common than female ones because the orange fur gene sits on the X chromosome, meaning males only need one copy, but the females need two. Ah, I came for hair trivia and I'm staying for cat genetics. Yeah, I mean, female cats with the one orange gene, they're the ones that come out, the patchy calico or tortoise shell coats. But the MC1R, it's kind of like the weird gene. So overall, redheads have unusual reactions to numerous substances because that gene influences receptors all over our brain. And it makes redheads unusual in a whole bunch of ways. Like all the sunscreen you all use. So if you have red hair, sunblock is absolutely necessary, correct? Because of the MC1R light pigment thing. Yeah, absolutely. I call it armor. And like I said

before, sunscreen only showed up in the 70s. So our redheaded ancestors were basically toast. And I feel for all my generations of redheads that came before sunscreen that could not have been pleasant. But redheads have very little protective melanin, which is why they are at a higher risk for melanoma. And too much sun kills melanocytes. And once they're gone, the cancer risk goes way up. So this shows how much the MC1R's effects ripple out beyond hair color. Yeah. And skin cancer risks may be one of the best known facts about redheads. Dermatology studies show over and over that there's no question that red haired individuals are at a much higher risk for skin cancer than non-redheaded individuals. Gingers are just more susceptible to damage from the sun and burning just happens.

Yep, nature gave you flammable skin. Pretty much. It certainly gives redheads pale skin, freckles, and sensitivity to the sun. It's like the ginger starter pack. Yeah. So does that make redheads age faster? Weirdly, yes. Bummer. Study in current biology found that people with the MC1R gene mutation, which means redheads, appear at least two years older than people who don't have it. That's not bad. And it isn't from sun damage.

The gene itself seems to influence pathways tied to sagging skin and facial aging. So the studies of the MC1R gene are the first genetic evidence for perceived age. So you look older and then you get more sun damage, which makes you look even older. So if you do everything right, you only look two years older. But if you do everything like a normal person, you look 12 years older. Yeah, if you stay inside, you'll still look older. Not a lot of upside to be in a ginger so far. Oh, well, on one bright side, there was a 2020 study that found redheads produce vitamin D faster and at higher levels than those without red hair. Oh, good, because you can't get vitamin D anywhere. else. Hey, give it to me. Yeah, it's $100 for a 10-year supply of vitamin D, maybe less. I don't know. Pale skin plus the EBS1R means redheads have evolved to naturally make up for what they lack. So the level of D3 in someone also corresponds to how red the hair is. And the pale skin is actually an evolutionary advantage in cloudy places like where we associate red hair. Ireland and Scotland. Basically, the red-headed body makes homemade natural supplements. So like my kids' fruit loops, you're fortified with vitamin D. That's convenient. I am. I am, definitely. And there are more health quirks associated with red hair. According to a large review study

published in 2017, female redheads have a higher risk of gynecological cancers like cervical, uterine, ovarian. And the redder the hair, the higher the risk. So one thing is a lot of the links it to prenatal estrogen exposure, but that hasn't been extensively tested. So, of course, you know, I think the problem here is there's no one shade of red, and these studies rely on women's own rating of how red her hair is, which is just so subjective. It's like it's got to be hard to measure degrees of redheadedness. So red hair might influence your biology before you're even born? I think so, yeah.

This is all pretty heavy so far. Tell me something fun. Come on. Well, red hair affects blushing, so redheads blush easier and brighter. Okay. Evolutionary theory says redheads developed many abilities to survive where the sun rarely shines. Insert joke about sunburned butts here, I guess. I know. Well, in parts of the world with low-intensity UVB rays, like central and northern parts of Europe, redheads may be seen more.

I guess it makes sense that there's more redheads in Ireland and Scotland because it's just not that sunny there like you said before. Yeah, sure. But as we know, as we know, redheads do pop up everywhere. And right now it's estimated that redheads make up about one to two percent of the world population. That may seem like a very low number. But that's about 150 million redheads walking around the world. They're not all in Ireland. But you're right that sections of Ireland, Scotland and Wales have the highest concentration. of redheads, it's about 10% there. And there used to be a huge redhead gathering once a year in the UK, but it stopped during the pandemic and it hasn't come back. However, in the last week of August of 2025, there was a Redhead Days festival in the Netherlands. Wow. So there really is a redhead festival. That's hilarious somehow. How does something like that even start? You got to wonder. Yeah. I mean, the one in the Dutch city of Tilburg has been happening for decades. In the 80s, Dutch artist Bart Roanhorst put out an ad in a local newspaper for 15 redheads for an art

project and he got 10 times the response he was expecting, but he just had everyone who responded join in on his group photo. And now it's just turned into this free festival, open to all, with the exception of the scheduled official group photo that's restricted to natural redheads. The 2013 gathering of this set a Guinness World Record for the largest gathering, of people with natural red hair with almost 2,000 people posing for the one group photo. Hilarious. Were you ever part of something like that? No. In fact, I'll say I lived in Dublin for a year and I traveled all over the island. I was actually surprised at how few redheads I encountered. Really? Yeah, it just didn't seem to me to be overwhelming, but it appeared way more prevalent

when I traveled around Scotland and Wales. But redheads are not just restricted to Europeans. So where, like I mentioned before, there's African Americans with red hair. So where did this freaky gene originate? Is it like a Viking thing? Yeah, I was convinced there was a Viking thing at one point, too. But no, Vikings did not introduce red hair, despite what every redhead Halloween costume has you believe. The redheaded gene mutation, it actually predates the Viking age by like tens of thousands of years. I liked the idea that every redhead has a little bit of Thor blood.

I thought every ginger was a little bit of an angry Norse god. in the first place. They all have that rep. I'm frankly a little disappointed. Yeah, sorry to ruin the fantasy. But I mean, red hair is found among people a Viking descent. Don't get me wrong, but it's not exclusive to them. Vikings were as genetically diverse as any society with early man buns and hair colors across the spectrum, blonde, brown, red. So where did the first redheads come from? Like, was there a, is there a ginger eve somewhere on the books? Not quite Eve, but yeah, genetic mutation first popped up in Central Asia about 50,000 years ago. Wow.

And as humans migrated to Europe, they just carried the gene with them. And then in sun-starved places like Ireland and Scotland, the pale skin and red hair, it helped with that vitamin D production. And so that's what resulted in pockets of gingers thriving in the fog. I wonder how they even found that it popped up in Central Asia 50,000 years ago. Like, are they doing an archaeological dig? And they're like, wow, look at this guy. The carpet matches the curtains, this fossil.

It also seems like this information is somewhat new. I mean, I think it's just from how we can do genetic and DNA testing and fossils, yeah. So you mentioned that vitamin D production or early vitamin D production resulted in pockets of gingers thriving in the fog. So this is like a pre-s sunscreen hack to battle the sun. So it's a useful mutation. It kept you. What does vitamin D provide again? Is it rickets?

There's a lot of hormone stuff related to it because I was deficient. Yeah, I think there's just a lot of a lot of balancing. Yeah. I don't know specifically, but we definitely need it. That is for sure. Yeah, wow. But yeah, I mean, definitely you find redheads all over. And it was the Celts who they started in Central Europe.

They seemed to have a big pocket of it and they help spread the gene all around because they had a nomadic lifestyle. No, Morocco, for example, has a much higher. than average concentration of redheads. There's specific parts of Russia and even South America that have very high populations. Just redheads are found everywhere. Yeah, I've actually seen people from Yemen and Afghanistan with bright red hair in their beards. Yeah. And it's so bright that you think that's fake, but then you realize that a 60-year-old Yemeni guy running a gas station is not dying his beard red. Right. He's just, it doesn't look like the type. He's just a freak. Yeah. And you see it

enough. There's one place I go to that has amazing frigging shwarma in Castroville. And it's like a rotten-roby gas station with a falafel shwarma place in the back that is epic. And it's run by Yemenis. And the dad has this bright red hair. And he's the guy where I'm just like, yeah, that's not fake. This guy's not dying his beard and walking around this place like that. Like he's not the guy. But it's very interesting to see that. And you see that in photos of people from Afghanistan. I've seen some Taliban photos where guys have bright red beard. Yeah, I've seen the Taliban photos too. Oh, that's why they're covering up their heads. And you're thinking like, okay, the Taliban probably also not running to the pink dot to get beard dye, right? So it's

probably real. So all these old myths, I guess my point here is all these old myths are even weirder because if redheads are everywhere and they've been around for thousands and thousands of years all over Central Asia and all over the continent of Europe, why the superstitions? It's not that rare. It's like being left-hand. Well, I guess if you're left-handed, we should do an episode on that. Because they are, I think also we have,

there are superstitions that people who are left-handed are bad. In fact, I think you even say left in Italian Sinistra, which is like sinister, right? That's got to be related to that. Yeah. I know in the Catholic religion, you couldn't be left-handed. If you were studying at the church, you had to write with your right,

there was some kind of connection with the devil, which who knows where all these things come from. I mean, maybe. I don't know. That sort of, I can see that checking out, at least in my case. But humans love to just demonize what's weird and rare. And rare, yeah. Yeah.

The comedian Anisa Nandala, she actually is a bit about how rare it is to see redheads in Uganda. It's hilarious. When I first came to Australia, I didn't know anything about you guys. Like, when I sold my first redhead, I lost my shit. Because I didn't know that you guys. came in this edition? The first time I saw Redhead, his name was Stuart. And I kept staring at him because in Uganda,

redheads get kidnapped by witches and used for spells. And I think he looked down on me because I was black. He was like, you must be so happy that you don't live in Uganda. I was like, no, you must be so happy you don't live in Uganda. They'd fuck you up. So, yeah, Redhead's. just collected some truly bizarre folklore everywhere. Some flattering, some really not.

So give us the flattering first. Warm us up. Okay. Well, in 1886, a French doctor, Augustine Gallupin, he published a book declaring redheads were sexier smelling people. Literally. He thought they emitted a unique intoxicating body odor. Not creepy at all.

Perhaps that doctor was just a he maybe had a thing for redheads with B.O. which I guess back then in 1886 in France, everyone had B.O. So whatever. Is that science or is that just the musings of a horny French guy? I don't know. I think everyone's guess here is the latter. Yeah. That's the kind of rigorous, pure-reviewed research we need more of on this podcast. But his myth has carried on. Today, some people still believe that because of specific skin biochemistry, redheads have a unique smell. Okay. Gross. Anyway.

I don't believe that. That is some people's belief. I'm just not convinced that that's specific to redheads, but I'm no horny French scientist, so what do I know? I mean, I agree with you. It's just another theory out there. But there is actually attraction data. So attraction is a really difficult thing to define, but it's real. And some people are just more attracted to redheads. Like, that's their type. And it seems people like Jason Mamoa, they assume a lot of things about redheaded behavior. Do you know a little mermaid? That's her question in my office. And I was like, ask him. Ariel? Ariel's very sweet. She's very nice. She's also a redhead.

So I'm going to teach you about redhead someday. They're very passionate. Very passionate people. Yeah, these little comments are so common and they can make me feel pretty misunderstood. Stick around. These deals are hotter than a ginger's first sunburn. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. it is your support of our sponsors that keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. But the burning question is, are redheads having more sex? That's what everybody wants to know. That's what horny French doctors want to know. That's what the horny French doctors try to figure out. I mean, studies show redheaded women report more sexual activity and partners. There was a 2022 study that found redheads become sexually active at an earlier age and report higher sexual desires. There's a German dating app researcher that claims redheads average at least one more hookup per week than blondes or brunettes, however you figure that out.

I just, I want to point out these studies all suggest that redheaded women report more sexual activity and more sexual partners. And it's because it's a fetish for some. Those who are into redheads are just super into redheads. And there's, I don't know, less supply, maybe because of the rarity. I mean, maybe. I mean, I don't think that's exactly it. So researching this, I found a weird fact about redheads in the human body. So that 22 study that looked at 110 women, 34% of them redheads, found that they scored

higher on measures of sexual desire. They reported more sexual activity and more partners than all the non-redheaded participants. But these studies are somewhat ridiculous, so it's not entirely clear why this is the case. And the authors of it speculate that it could be due to a partner's more frequent attempts to initiate sex rather than the women's desire. So perhaps it's like an exotic novelty factor. I'm not sure. Or they just love getting down. Yeah, red-headed sluts, Jessica. Daddy chill. But according to this study, the sex. lives of women with red hair were clearly more active than those with other hair colors,

with more partners, having sex more often than the average. And the figures revealed that typically redheads have intercourse at least one more time per week than the rest of the population. So does there are so many questions I want to ask you, but here's the question I'm going to ask you. So does that mean redheads are having more babies as well? These studies are also so bizarre because they actually show that red-headed women report more fertility issues, but also end up having more children. So they're having more sex and having more babies and scientists are mystified. Okay, maybe no surprise some of the science dorks can't figure this one out.

Can't figure this one out. I don't know. You know, I'm something of a scientist myself. At least I was back in the day. Hopefully I've shaken that reputation by now. Anyway, I mean, this all makes me. of gold star redhead. I have red hair, blue eyes, and no babies. So could be biology or maybe something more psychological. It's not data that has been collected enough, but not only do redheads

have fertility issues, it's also reported redheads have higher rates of depression and anxiety. Wow. Redheads are high anxiety and high functioning. Maybe that's a reason some people are so into them. You sexy, aromatic, freckly, neurotic mess. Bring that pale ass over here. I will say, and I tried to find actual research about this, but as far as the depression goes, you know, in therapy, doctors like to throw you all kinds of medicine. I was prescribed at one point in my life in SSRI, which is like, well, butrin and those

kind of things. It did the opposite. It did so much damage. And I had to immediately be taken off of them. So when I was reading this, I thought, is, okay, we've higher depression rates. Is it because the medications don't work on redheads? But I couldn't find any research. That's just my experience.

But, you know, there's definitely a cultural fetish. So some guys treat it like they're collecting rare Pokemon. Like, I've always wanted a redhead. Like, it's not subtle. And I'm not interested in being the shiny Charzard. I don't know about my other redheaded sisters. but I don't want to be somebody's sexual conquest. And there are really specific studies

that actually look at the rates different hair colors get hit on. Did you say Charazard? Is that a Pokemon, by the way? Yes. Ah, I guess I always thought that was Charizard. But you can tell, I don't play Pokemon. Oh.

Because it looks like it's, that's the one that's spelled Shirazard, right? Yeah, like lizard, but I think they say it Sharazard. Sharazard. I mean, who knows? I'll take their word for it. You can tell me. My pronunciation might be off.

Yeah, that's going to be the one thing everybody emails me about this episode. Nothing else is going to be interesting. It's just going to be all pronunciations of Charizard. So tell me about the, you said different rates, hair colors get hit on. Say more about that. What color should we all be dyeing our hair? I mean, well, it depends on the kind of attention you want, but it's true. The studies look at straight women with different hair colors. And they show blondes get the most male attention. Redheads a little less so. But the same men interviewed later said redheads seem less approachable. So these studies, you know, they're a bit flimsy and I'm sorry to my redheaded brothers. I didn't come across any similar experiments with men and hair color.

So redheads are bullied and fetishized. That's peak humanity right there, I suppose. And bullied in the strangest ways just a couple weeks ago in Tucson. This guy went to a city council meeting and just went on this wild rant about how much he dislikes having gingers in town, how red-headed people shouldn't be allowed to have cameras. It's so wild. We got to choke every ginger in town. We can't have gingers run around Sararita. You know, we can't have gingers. We can't have people with a camera. You put a ginger with a camera, we need to get them out of here. We can't have any of them gingers. And that's basically all I've got to say, all ginger should be thrown out of Saravita. Saratira is not the place.

for gingers. If we can throw out all the gingers and bring in more people like Chief Nolan, he knows what to do with Ginger's. We saw. He knows how to handle gingers. That's how you got to handle gingers is you put them in a headlock and you throw them to the ground

and you break their camera. He had a 4K camera. None of us in Tucson can afford a 4K camera. We have to use 1080 or 720. But he had a 4K camera. You've got to break that camera. You can't let anybody with nice cameras like that around Sarrived, especially in the police department.

I thank you for what your chief did, and we need more people like him. We need more people in Sarriva to choke out gingers. Wow, yeah, I saw that. I thought that, first of all, it looks like a scene out of Parks and Rec. We'll link it in the show notes. I thought it was a joke. I really thought that he was trolling because who the hell is so anti-redhead that they speak at a town hall meeting? What the hell?

I was so hoping it was a joke, but this... Yeah. You know, I mean. One of the odds that this 65, 70-year-old man is able to deliver something that dry and persuasive and be ironic and not serious. I'll definitely be avoiding the Tucson area. I mean, I just, I feel so targeted, this vitriol. Tucson's in Arizona. There should be no redheads there anyway, given what you just told me about the sun.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, obviously, this is a very extreme example. I'd like to think most people do not feel this way. But there's also an extinction myth I've heard, by the way. Is it true that redheads are slowly disappearing over time and they'll eventually go extinct? Yeah, I have definitely heard that too. But like it or not, you're stuck with this world.

It's just total nonsense redheads could go extinct because the MC1R gene, it's not going anywhere. There will always be some mutations. And it's recessive. So even if no ginger babies show up for a while, it will appear, maybe even generations later. So it's just a sneaky trait in the gene pool and it can pop up any time both parents or carriers. Genetic roulette. It's like a genetic dating app matching you with a partner that is 98% compatible to make a child that has red hair. Wow.

You're joking, but there are ginger-only dating sites. No surprise. Yeah. One's called redheaddates.com. Clever. Very clever. There's a few others for people with that redhead fetish, which is just bizarre to me. Ew.

Yeah. I will say, at least in my experience, you know, people who are into redheads are like enthusiastically into redheads. I don't think you need a dating app. I think you just go to a bar probably. But any dating site that defines people based on a single physical trait is gross. I tend to agree. I should probably go ahead and cancel my subscription to third nipplesonly.com. How do they, so you'd have to account for all the different.

shades of red hair, right? Like strawberry blonde, fiery red, the variables seem almost impossible to control. And then it's like, oh, I only want natural redheads. I'm filter by natural or dye. Like, that's so weird. Right. And there's just so many different shades. And that's all about variations in the MC1R gene. And as I've aged, my hair shade has definitely changed. It's, it used to be so crazy bright when I was little. Now it's, you know, a bit dulled down. And however the pigment works, redheads skip the part of hair. going gray and they just fade to bright white. There's other redheaded statistics that might surprise you like redheads are more likely to be in commercials. What? That's a weird one, I suppose.

Yeah, I know, but a 2014 report found that 30% of TV commercials during prime time featured redheads despite being only 2% of the population. And at one point, CBS showed a redhead every 106 seconds. You got to wonder who measured that. That is bananas. That's crazy. Would you ever in a commercial? When I was a kid, I was. Oh, wow.

Now that I work in the entertainment industry, I spend a lot of time on studio lots. And I get a surprising amount of extra work thrown out to me for someone not interested in being an actor. So I do pop up in the background on shows like that HBO show, The Pit I was in. There's a lot of studio audience shots I get pulled into. They pull you into it. So they're like, we're filming the audience. Everyone has dark hair. Go get Jessica. Yeah, PAs will come be like, hey, do you want to sit in on this for a minute?

Just for these, you know, shows. To pan across the audience. Yeah, they pan across the audience, not in real time. So, yeah, you get pulled into it. It's hilarious. There's a show called Platonic that recently wanted all the redheads around for a wedding reception scene because the male character was a redhead. So they wanted to make it seem like the whole family was redheads, which not quite how it looks in the real world, but it was fun. And it was cool to see on film, just a whole room full of redheads.

I wonder if there's something red hair does for our senses. Does Wendy, even though Wendy the Fast Food logo, does she have red hair to entice me to buy a Frosty or a burger? I mean, red is associated with appetite. So a lot of restaurant logos use the color red. That could explain the high rate of redheads and advertising. But so many cultural characters, you know, think about it. The Little Mermaid, Merida, the main character from Brave.

Wilma Flintstone and her baby were redheads. And then, of course, Jessica Rabbit, strawberry shortcake. The list just goes on. It makes the characters stand out, at least the female ones. Not sure if that one is offensive or not. There's a lot of anime men with red hair, I think. You know, it doesn't have to all be women. Yeah, for sure.

And people just seem to like it more in a female. I'm not sure why. Prince Charming and Beauty and the Beast was a redhead, though. So good thing for Redhead guys is that, It's shown that redheads are funnier. Well, clowns do tend to have red hair. I actually, my nephew is a redhead. My sister and her husband, neither of them are redheads.

And my brother-in-law definitely was uncomfortable with the fact that his son was a redhead. Like, when he was little, it just, oh, it'll be easier if it was a girl. I don't know why that stigma exists. Weird. But, yeah, clowns have red hair. according to Professor Andrew Scott, who teaches the history of comedy at the University of Buffalo, we first began to see the circus clown, as we know it, complete with face paint and brightly colored wigs in the early 19th century. The wigs needed to be bright so that they could be seen from the backs of these large theaters.

So red was just the obvious choice. I see. It is easy to keep track of my red-headed friends and crowds. You ever go to a rave or something? You're like, how am I going to follow? Oh, there he is. Oh, yeah. People always find me. There's 10,000 people here. How am I going to find him?

Well, there's three redheads. I've never been lost. Yeah. I mean, we don't really blend in. And as clowns evolved, red hair just became symbolic. It reflects the cultural image of the influx of Irish immigrants in early American history because, like Ronald McDonald, for example, that's spelled the Irish way, not the Scottish way. So you're not a witch. You're just designed differently. Redheads aren't cursed.

their supercharged mutants with vitamin D skills and pain quirks. Exactly. And maybe don't make fun of your red-headed co-worker. She might live longer than you. But look older. She might look older, but she might feel less pain. She might be better in bed. So just be nice.

We can't help it. And the research that has been done on the world's gingers indicate that they do put up with a lot and could be considered genetic superheroes. So it might not be the type of thing Marvel would take an interest in. But the bodies of redheads are incredibly resilient as their altered genes give them different DNA, and by extension, a host of other unique abilities. And we don't need a radioactive animal bite. We're just born this way.

Well, to all my ginger friends out there, may your sunscreen be thick and your MC1R genes be proud. Thanks, Jess. Stay pasty. Thanks, everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, Jordan atjordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show. all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can find Jessica on her substacks, plural, between the lines and where shadows linger. We'll link to that in the show notes. I guess you can't have just one substack, Jessica, God forbid. This show is created an association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Tata Sadlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own.

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