The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1282: The Vagina | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: February 8, 2026

From medieval speculums to modern myths, vaginas deserve better. Jessica Wynn takes a deep dive into these anatomical marvels here on Skeptical Sunday!Welcome to Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show where Jordan and a guest break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up, and debunk common misconceptions. This time around, we're joined by writer and researcher Jessica Wynn!Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1282On This Week's Skeptical Sunday:The vagina is self-cleaning with its own microbiome — douching, "pH-balancing" products, and vaginal steams disrupt this natural ecosystem and can cause infections. Most "feminine hygiene" products are marketing scams that profit from manufactured shame.Vaginas expand dramatically during arousal through a process called "tenting" — doubling in length and width, then returning to normal afterward. The myth that sex "stretches out" vaginas is anatomically false; vaginal muscles are elastic, not memory foam.Women's pain is systematically dismissed by the medical establishment — conditions like endometriosis take 7-10 years to diagnose, and menstrual cramps can rival heart attack pain. This stems from historical medical sexism, including experiments on enslaved Black women without anesthesia.Teaching children proper anatomical terminology is a critical safety issue — when kids know words like "vagina," "vulva," and "clitoris," they can clearly communicate if abuse occurs. Euphemisms create dangerous confusion that may protect abusers.Learn your anatomy and advocate for yourself — understanding your body empowers you to have better medical conversations, safer sex, and healthier relationships. Knowledge about vaginal health isn't indecent; ignorance is.Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know!Connect with Jessica Wynn at Instagram and Threads, and subscribe to her newsletters: Between the Lines and Where the Shadows Linger!And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps!Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors:Superpower Health: $20 off membership: superpower.com, code JORDANBombas: Go to bombas.com/jordan to get 20% off your first orderDripDrop: 20% off: DripDrop.com, code JORDANShopify: 3 months @ $1/month (select plans): shopify.com/jordanSimple English News Daily: Listen here or wherever you hear fine podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday, co-host writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-formed conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays, though, Sunday where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about

and debunk common misconceptions about that topic. Such as circumcision, the lottery, toothpaste, crystal healing, diet pills, hypnosis, homeopathy, and more. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on

persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan Harbinger.com.com Start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, a little warning. This episode contains frank discussion about female anatomy using proper medical terminology. It's educational, it's not explicit, but if you'd prefer your kids learn this stuff, you know, somewhere else first,

maybe save this one for your commute. Today on Skeptical Sunday, we're diving into the beautiful, powerful, and often misunderstood world of vaginas, the whole world of vaginas. Half the population has one, but we treat them like their classified information. We use euphemisms and myths rather than just talking honestly. We'll discuss any other body part without a second thought, but say the word vagina and watch people blush and squirm, and especially when you say it like that, I guess. But heads up, we're going to be using proper anatomical terms like vagina, vulva, and clitoris throughout this episode because here's the thing. Knowledge is not indecent. However, ignorance is. And it's time we stop treating basic biology like forbidden knowledge from some mystical cave of

wonders. Joining me to get deep inside vaginas is writer and researcher Jessica Williams. Hey, Jess, so let's dive in with an important, very scientific question. If your vagina got dressed, what would it wear? Quoting the vagina monologues right off the bat. Impressive. I've always said she would wear a machine washable jean jacket. Ah, the old Canadian tuxedo. Practical, sturdy. Can go from day to night. So remind everyone about the vagina monologues? Well, the vagina monologues is this episodic play by Eve Ensler,

centered on women's stories about their bodies, sex, joy, and trauma. It's meant to delete the shame from the feminine body. I actually saw it off Broadway as a kid in the 90s. Like my friend had this really cool mom and she took us. Some people thought we were too young, but it definitely taught me that talking about our bodies isn't taboo. It can be powerful and funny and normal. Just buy every girl you know a copy of the play.

really everyone should read it and see it if they can. So I'm wondering how you knew some people thought you were too young. Did people come up and go, aren't they a little young to be watching the vagina monologue? Because it was like a day. Like we left school. We took the train to New York. And then, of course, I was talking about it and other friends, parents, teachers. Oh, so not people who were there watching the vagina monologues saying you're too young to be here.

Okay, that makes way more. Because I'm thinking like, what hippie goes to see the vagina monologues and is, oh, you shouldn't bring kids who are learning about their bodies to that. Like, those are the people who would applaud you being there. That makes way more sense. Very supportive audience. I remember one specific teacher when I was talking about it being shocked that we went and saw it. It's funny because it sort of proves your earlier point. She's probably like steeped in her own shame about her own stuff and is, I can't believe they would allow someone else to do this. So is it a musical? Like, are people singing about vaginas or it's just a play? It's not a musical. It's a play. It's a bunch of

of monologues. Now I think they have different women come out and do each monologue, but originally it was just the author doing a one-woman show. So do you think women are ashamed of their bodies generally? That's subjective, right? Some aren't. I'm not. And this episode's not about shock value, right? It's about taking a skeptical look at myths and misinformation and helping people understand their own bodies a little better. There does seem to be a massive cultural discomfort around vaginas. It's wild we haven't normalized science-based discussions about anatomy and health and pleasure and all that. I know. We should be as comfortable talking about our vaginas as we are, our lower backs. If you don't know the language of your own body, it makes it harder to advocate

for yourself with doctors in sex ed, in relationships. So let's start with the basics, because even the word itself gets misused. People say vagina for everything below the bed. I mean, I do this too, I say something, something vagina. And people are like, oh, Jordan doesn't know what the vulva is. And it's no. And you also know that everyone says that and you're just trying to embarrass me. Screw you. No, it can be frustrating how it's used.

But can you confidently describe the difference between the vulva, the clitoris, the cervix, and the vagina? Yeah. It's actually not that hard. I mean, uterus, where baby go. Vulva, outside of vagina. Vigina. The canal, cervix at the other end of that thing, right? I mean, this is not, like, complicated.

Yeah, you've done your homework. A lot of people haven't, and most people can't tell the difference, including a lot of women. Technically, the vagina is the muscular canal inside the body. Everything external, the clitoris, the labia, the urethra, the part you can see, that's the vulva. So using vagina as a catch-all term, it's like calling your entire face, your tongue. Yeah. To be fair, most men aren't experts on their anatomy either. I'll be. talking about something and people will say like, oh, the glands. And I'm like, do you mean glands? And they're like, or they don't even know what that is in the first place. They're using words like, we have a lot of words for our stuff too. And I guarantee you most guys don't know what the dorsal part of their penis is, for example. They have no idea. And that's just a failure in our

education. It's not really anybody's fault. You have to take the time to learn all of these things. But women's anatomy is more complex. So you've got a penis and testicles. And yes, you have a bunch of little, you know, there's other parts, but. It's less complicated, I feel like, generally. It's less complicated. And we've got ovaries, uterus, vaginas, cervix, clitoris, labia, vulva, because we're designed to gestate life. And yet boys get clearer language. Penis, balls, their gift, their power. I've never heard anything. That's cringe. Nobody's. You never heard the gift? That's a pretty common one. No, that's cringe.

Yeah, it is very cringe. But women get euphemisms like down there, coochie, muff, and a whole lot of shame. Yeah, and then as adults, pharma gives men ED meds while women face laws regulating their bodies and ads implying their feminine odor is some kind of crime scene and periods need to be disguised so that you can do gymnastics. Those ads always cracked me up. It would be little in watching these and I'm like, I don't understand what this is for. she's swimming or she's like doing a backflip. Yeah. I'm like, so is this an ad for gymnastics?

It's an ad for hiking. It's an ad for riding a bicycle. And then when I'm most older, I was like, oh, mom, so when you have your period, you can't ride a bike and she's, what the hell are you talking about? I'm like, I don't know. I don't understand the advertising. My dad would turn the TV off. He could even watch the ads. Wow.

That's a bit extra. So old school, like when he was in front of his daughter, it was just too much, which no fault to him. kind of message does that send to your daughter if you're like, oh, shit, I can't watch this. Yeah. Oh, I'm not allowed to see a pubescent girl ride horses. Yeah. Men just get, you know, behold, my mighty dragon of virility and women get that. Have you considered that you stink? When we talked about dicks, I got some pushbacks from surprising places, like from men, not from women. When this airs, I fully expect emails saying it's vulgar or people had to turn it off because they were eating lunch or something like that. I don't know. It's people get weird.

about this stuff. Yeah, I'm preparing for dick picks in my DMs. More than usual. More than you. I was going to say what else is new. Yeah. There is this bias in our language objectively. And naming anatomy correctly, it's not dirty. It's just grown up. So how do you handle teaching kids this language? You teach the real words. It's not inappropriate. It's actually a safety issue. When kids know proper anatomical terms, they can communicate clearly if something's wrong or if abuse occurs. Euphemisms create confusion and confusion may protect abusers. Oh, I have heard that on social media. Like, don't teach your kids these weird, like, euphemistic, silly words for things, like cookie. Because then when the prosecutor or teacher,

she's like, Uncle Tom touched my cookie, it's like, okay, my uncle likes cookies too. And, like, they just brush it off. Right. Yeah, see, that kid doesn't know what they're talking about. Yeah. And then the person's like, oh, yeah, she had cookies and I ate one of them. I'm not a pervert who belongs in prison. But if you teach them the real words, then they go to somebody like their doctor says, yeah, something went in my anus. It's like, well, she clearly told me that this bad thing happened and I have to report it now. There's no sort of hiding it anymore. I actually had a really solid health teacher in sixth grade. We thought at the time too graphic, I guess it was probably fine. And then another one in seventh, maybe eighth grade, I forget now, she had no qualms about

any of this. It was super educational, but it was uncomfortable. A lot of like condom demonstrations. I remember like the guys and the girls both being like, oh my God, when is this going to be over? It was intense because you're not used to that, especially our generation, right? It was like our first exposure to a lot of this stuff. And you're just sitting there learning about this and you're like, oh my God, what do we do? Class clowns were on overdrive. Oh, my God, I have to make jokes about everything because it's uncomfortable. Yeah, we're definitely on opposite ends of that experience. And I was thinking about it, I think because I was in the orchestra, I got out of health class.

Like, I would get out of health and gym. So I think I just skipped sex ed. I never had a sex talk at home. I just didn't live in that kind of house. So I did what kids do when adults won't explain things. I reverse engineered it. I looked at old encyclopedias, books. I was absolutely too young to be reading and movies that I probably should have had a permission slip for.

Yeah. And before anyone could shame me, though, I was like squatting over a mirror in my bedroom, checking it all out. Like, all right, let's see what's going on here. That's vivid. I know. But I think it was healthy, and I think that's probably rare. But there are entire generations of women who have gone their whole lives. without ever looking at their own vulva.

And that's not accidental. So historically, women were kept ignorant on purpose. So from Roman times through 16th century Christian Europe, the female body was tied to sin. And then later, Victorian-era medicine treated female sexuality as a disorder. And shame was used as control and eventually to sell feminine products.

So extreme sexual repatriate. repression continued into the 20th century, but the late 20th century finally cracked the door open on talking about female reproductive health, and the 21st century keeps pushing it, right? So there's things like the vagina monologues and nonstop political fights over women's bodies that have become mainstream, but there's the centuries-long taboo we're still shaking off. Yeah, I guess there were no chastity belts for men. There are now, but I should probably stop visiting those websites. Yeah, Jordan.

Whatever you're into, we're not shaming here. But yeah, not that long ago, there were modesty laws, corsets and this whole chastity culture. So women were literally shackled. So a kid with a mirror is not the weird problem. I thought a corset just made you look thinner. But it's also tying you up and so it's keeping you unavailable. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought it was just something weird to make you look thin and smash your ribs together or whatever.

I didn't know it was a chastity thing. Yeah, it's harder to get to the skin. So you can't be as loose. What I think corset, I think Wild West prostitute at a saloon. I don't think that's originally what it was meant for. I don't think originally it was meant to be this sexy article of, like, lingerie or clothing. It was definitely meant to keep women in line. Got it.

Because I'm thinking, if you're a prostitute, isn't a corset the last thing that you want on? This is going to take 20 minutes to get off. I have to relase this five times a day. Yeah, I've been walking through the Red Light District in Amsterdam, and it's part of it after they open the curtains, after their customer leaves. You watch the madam retie the corset. There's definitely a fetish thing to it. Oh, yeah. You would think they're just like a zip-up version.

I don't know why we're on this. Okay, so the vagina's complexity is not really taught. It's hidden. Which is wild, right? Because the vagina is remarkable. It can allow a 10-pound baby to pass. through and then return to its original size a few months postpartum. Okay, so a lot of people are going to say that's not true, but let's talk about the

obsession with tightness. We spent a lot of time on penis size at episode 1225, but vagina size varies as well. Oh, absolutely. And there's this whole tight pussy big dick mythology. Look, I will be honest, I'm a size queen. Dick size matters to me. But the idea that sex permanently stretches out of vagina is, It's complete nonsense.

The vagina is a muscle, and muscles don't work that way. Viginas are designed to deliver humans, not flatter men. So it's not just, it's not a canal surrounded by muscle. It's a muscle itself, or there's got to be some difference between that and like my bicep. The vagina is a muscular canal. It's this elastic fibromuscular tube, and it's made of entirely smooth muscle tissue. That muscle is what can. the cervix to the outside of the body.

Got it. I just wanted to make sure because I know people are like, I'm not listening anymore because she said the vagina's a muscle and it's technically and it's like, okay, all right. So we've got to be careful here. So you're saying vagina size does matter just not in the way people think, but there are differences in size. Yeah, for sure. But size changes before penetration.

So during arousal, the vagina goes through a normal physiological process called tenting where the vaginal canal lengthens and widens. It relaxes and lubricates. Built in engineering. And I got to say it's really funny to read this because of course I think a lot of people maybe know this and a lot of people don't. But you see these guys on Twitter. They're usually like arguing for some sort of antiquated, in my opinion, point. And they'll say something like, vaginas don't actually change size and they don't actually do this. And not all women lubricate. And then the responses are all like, oh my God, tell me you've never given a woman an orgasm without telling me, you've never given a woman an orgasm. Or just never turn somebody on.

Right, you've never aroused any of the women that you've been, because they're like, I've never experienced this. And maybe you want to delete that because that is a shocking accidental confession slash admission. Yeah, yikes. That was one of the funniest tweets I've ever seen. The most funny would be the guy who took a picture of the scale, but it was reflective and it had like a reflection of his tiny, tiny little penis. Oh, no. And then the next tweet was, how do you delete a tweet? He should get an award that's comedy gold.

And all these people are like laughing at him and other people are like, whatever app you have, click the dots, and then da-da-da-da. And it's like, oh, it's too late, bro. 16 million impressions later. Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. And the vagina is highly elastic. And it can double in length from around three inches to up to seven inches. So increased blood flow causes the tissue to expand and relax, which increases the flexibility.

And then the width expands too. So the vaginal walls, which are folded and also highly elastic, expands significantly in width to accommodate penetration from a narrow resting size to about two to three inches in diameter during arousal. So the increased blood flow also causes the walls to secrete. lubricating fluid, which reduces friction. Yeah, it's just, it's seriously impressive. I mean, it's wild. And tenting is why it can feel shallow when you're putting in a tampon, but can accommodate a well-endowed partner.

So since the vaginal canal is highly elastic with arousal, it can comfortably accommodate a large partner. And when that stimulus isn't there anymore, it naturally returns to its resting state. So yes, you can get used to a bigger partner. But if you break up, your body adapts right back. There's no permanent change. There's no damage. There's no downgrade.

Sex isn't stretching a vagina out like an old sweater. Yeah, that should clear up some anxieties and maybe some bragging. Because I've definitely heard men worry that, you know, a woman is ruined by having sex with someone bigger. There's other damage that can occur, right? I mean, like people can tear during childbirth and stuff like that. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about just because your girlfriend slept with somebody once who's more well-endowed than you doesn't mean that it's a permanent thing. Definitely not a thing.

We're not going to get into it. But of course, there can also be damage. If there's trauma, if there's forced penetration, you're not aroused. So that can cause different problems. But just generally speaking, that's not a thing. So any anxiety about that, that's their ego. It's not about her anatomy. The vagina is a muscle, I assure you, it's not memory foam. And it responds to what's happening in the moment. So the goal isn't tight. It's comfortable, aroused, pain-free sex. Men should know this. It works out better for everyone.

For everybody. And anatomy varies, for sure, just like penises vary. So vulvas come in every shape, size, color, and hairstyle. But we've created this idea of one perfect, like porn vulva, and that's harmful. And preferences are fine, but shame isn't. And the clitoris matters here, too. It's a complex erectile structure that swells during arousal. Interesting. Yeah, we covered the hairstyle thing during our Redheads episode. Yeah.

You're saying the clitoris actually expands and contracts, like it's got its own little tiny Hulk boner moment. Yeah, it's a clitoral erection. So blood flows in. It swells and firms up during arousal. Then after orgasm, it goes back down. And the visible tip of the clitoris, that's just a small part of a much larger internal structure. That's what he said.

Yeah, but it's true. Inside, it's much bigger. Yeah, I swear there's more in there somewhere. Do you see the size of her clitoris? For clitoris is that it's true, though. And in fact, some are a little closer or further from the vaginal opening. And a new study found that women whose clitoris is, were farther away from the vaginal opening,

we're more likely to have trouble orgasming due to decreased stimulation. So pay attention to your partner's unique design if you care about satisfying them. I feel like we should have standardized tests, maybe how to pleasure one another properly. I guess you don't get down there with a ruler, but you could just sort of eyeball it. We need a whole section on the clitoris, whatever test that is. Yeah, the clitoris is so cool. And it has about 8,000 nerve endings. That's roughly twice as many as the penis.

And they're all dedicated to pleasure. So it's basically the control center of orgasm. And here's the kicker. Only about 18% of women orgasm from penetration alone. So most need that clitoral stimulation. So get into it, partners. There's a lot of pressure on women to orgasm the right way. I know.

And it's based on bad information. And it's not a dig on men or women. It's just how our bodies are designed. If women can figure out how to make you orgasm, you can figure out how to return the favor. Add in a little DJing. DJing? Yeah. Men jerk off.

Women DJ. That's what at least my friend group calls it. Flicking the bean is just wrong. Please don't flick anyone's clip. Yeah. So that's what I've been doing wrong. All right. Take notes, everybody.

All right. before we go any deeper inside this topic, and yes, that pun was unavoidable, let's take a quick break to hear from the folks who make the show possible. We'll be right back. Don't forget about our newsletter, We Bit Wiser. It's a short bit from me to you. Every Wednesday, it's an under two-minute read, highly practical, something you can apply right away. It's either wisdom from the show or wisdom from our lives.

You can find it at Jordan Harbinger.com slash news. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. There are procedures out there. women go through to alter the size and appearance of their vaginas? I've heard this is on the rise, actually. What about things like labiaplasty? Some procedures are cosmetic, but many are medically necessary. So conditions like Meyer-Rokentonsky-K-K-H-K-H, which is MR-H-H-I-N-H-I- know it's a mouthful. It's a syndrome that exists, and it causes what's called vaginal absence, where the vagina and uterus, they don't fully form. So instead of a vaginal opening, there's just like a

small dimple. And there's also severe vaginal stenosis where the canal is too narrow or scarred. So people who've had trauma or cancer or really complicated births, they can suffer from these. And for them, surgeries like vaginoplasti are about function and pain relief, not aesthetics. So this isn't about sexual performance. It's about health. Yeah, and some people are born with these congenital conditions like MRKH. And surgeons may have to construct a new vaginal canal completely from scratch. That's called a neo-vaginoplasty, and that can involve like skin grafts and dilators to prevent the canal from closing again.

Oof, that sounds intense. Yeah, because it is. But for people who need it, it can mean a normal pain-free life. same with things like a hymen that's too thick or rigid. That can make penetration impossible or excruciating, and a hymenectomy fixes it. And there are pain conditions like vestibulitis, where the tissue near the vaginal opening is extremely painful. So the treatment for this can include physical therapy or surgery. Wow.

Now I get why knowing the language of your anatomy is so important. I know, right? Because tightness isn't like a personality trait. It's sometimes a medical problem. And vaginal stenosis, that can be congenital, or it can happen after scarring from childbirth or, like, a radiation treatment, or certain surgeries. And it can make sex painful or even basic exams painful. And that's where dilation therapy or surgical repair comes in. I associate dilation with labor.

What is dilation therapy? So it's the same concept, but it's a different purpose. purpose. Dilators are medical tools used gradually over time to gently increase vaginal comfort and flexibility, especially when they're scarring or like a short, narrow canal. And it takes time. It's slow, consistent, medically guided progress, which also kills the myth that penetration stretches out of vagina. Those women would be like, where do I sign up for that? Got to find a big one one night and then you're good to go. No more inserting whatever that thing is and leaving it in there for six weeks.

I mean, again, that's not how muscle tissue works. The goal is supposed to be pain-free. And if someone is in pain, that's a health issue, not a compliment. I see. How are these procedures done? It sounds invasive and it sounds a little bit scary. Sometimes it's minimally invasive tools. Sometimes it's surgery.

It just depends on the problem. So the headline here is vaginas aren't one size fits all and the medical stuff is about health. Exactly. Then there's the other category, cosmetic procedures marketed to perfectly healthy women. So the labiaplasty that's done for symmetry, there's clitoral hood reduction, vaginal rejuvenation. That's where the line blurs between health and culturally desirable aesthetics. Rejuvenation is a weird one. That's one of those, oh, is your vagina tired? Like, what are you rejuvenating?

Offensive. Yeah. Do you think porn plays a role in these aesthetic procedures? Because there's got to be some sort of industry standard people are going for. I would imagine, let's say, in the 70s or 80s or before that, you didn't see 10,000 vaginas and go like, oh, they should look like this. You had sex with whatever handful of people or a couple handfuls of people. And you were grateful. You were like, all right, this works for me.

Yeah. Yeah, porn has pushed this narrow, ideal vulva look. Hairless, small, barely visible labia. There's one acceptable model. But most vulvas don't look like that, and they don't need to. Well, it depends on the porn you're watching, I guess, but yeah. And then labioplasty, that can be medically necessary if a woman experiences pain during exercise or sex. Exercise.

Yeah, things are moving around down there. Oh, my gosh, I never thought about that, but I guess you're right. Like, you're the only one who needs a cup. No, I'm just kidding. I guess if your scrotum was like attached weird and you couldn't run well, you'd want that to be fixed up. Yeah, it could be painful. Yeah, okay. That makes sense.

But a lot of these procedures have become cosmetic. They're driven by comparison, probably some shame. So if you're considering a procedure, just ask, is this solving pain or function? Or am I trying to look like an unrealistic? template. And there's a whole industry built around that template. Oh, man. It's a whole industry selling insecurity. And not just through procedures, the products pushed on women to fix, tighten or clean their vaginas. It's outrageous. Is there maintenance required to have a healthy vagina? No, there isn't. Here's the really boring truth. The vagina manages itself. It has a microbiome

that maintains its pH balance. The outside, the vulva, wash like normal skin, the inside, leave it alone. I remember when I was a kid, you'd see ads for like summer's Eve or whatever. I still don't know what that is. It's not good. No, it's maybe leave that outside. So all these pH balancing products or whatever, they're not doing anything. Oh, please.

pH balance your balls, guys. It's all mostly marketing. So the vagina is self-cleaning. if somebody's selling you detox pearls or these vaginal steam treatments or rejuvenation surgeries and designer vaginas, ask for their data, not their discount code. Yeah, hang on, I'm pH balancing my balls. I'll be right with you. Yeah, please do. But seriously, these perfumes, these beads, they're harsh cleansers, they can cause irritation and infections. So when an ad says, feel tighter, look younger, that's not medicine. That's Botox for your insecurities.

And maybe your lack of satisfaction. So you don't need to steam your vagina? Only if you're cooking dumplings in there. Wow, you really can do everything with those. I did see somewhere online, people are apparently, oh gosh, they're eating cow vaginas, and they call it a fragrant delicacy, which makes my stomach turn a little bit. somehow. Oh, great. I didn't come across that. It's like Vietnamese or something. Oh, fun. Let's not cover every incorrect use of a vagina here. It's a slippery slope, I guess. Self-libricating slope, in fact.

Yes, yes. But I guess that's proof that vaginas can be delicious. Yeah, I have read about common problems. Like, a lot of women get bacterial vaginosis and they don't even realize it. Is that from these products? Like the summer's eve type of stuff? pH balancing, whatever. Sometimes definitely. Messing with the microbiome can increase the odds of BV and yeast issues. And then people buy more products to fix the problem the product created. So it's like this expensive little doom loop.

What about the probiotics and supplements and things like that? Is there any science behind those? I mean, there's real science on lactobacillus being a key part of a healthy vaginal environment but the supplement world is a mess. The rule is if someone's promoting vaginal detox, run. So stick to the old-fashioned douche then? Absolutely not. I can't stress this enough.

Shower like normal and you're good. Doaching is one of the fastest ways to disrupt the microbiome. And here's the fun fact. The douche didn't even start as a vaginal product. What would it be for? your ears. Yeah. Oh, damn, I was kidding. You're actually dead on. These Parisian guys invented the douche for bodily irrigation of ears, sinuses, bladder, intestines, and vagina. So they went back to the drawing board and then just started aggressively marketing it to women as hygiene. In 1910,

they even introduced a breast douche for, quote, thorough breastwashing. But so that's not internal because you can't get anything in there. But honestly, I get so many sinus infections. I probably could use a sinus. Dush your nose. That's right. Nothing says medical innovation quite like, man, this is not working. This has failed completely.

Let's market it to women by telling them that they need it. I know. It's like shame has always been a business model. Yeah. I've actually recently gotten targeted for ads. I don't know. Somebody must have been using my phone. But I'm getting ads for yoni pearls.

Sure, somebody. And tightening cream. And a lot of women, owned wellness companies sell this stuff, like Goop and Lemmy. There's a Yoni Pearl is what, a pearl that goes in your vagina? Oh yeah, just place this stone in there and watch the magic happen. I'm not exactly sure what kind of psychosomatic stuff is supposed to be happening. It's all pseudoscience nonsense. Wellness does not mean science. A couple months ago, Courtney Kardashian's company Lemmy launched pussy pops. Lollipops for your vagina.

that are, quote, formulated with pineapple and vitamin C. So I don't know about other women, but my vagina is the last place I'd like to put citrus. And my favorite part about the pussy pops is that her ad campaign shows her with a lollipop in her mouth, which makes me wonder what she thinks a vagina is. So I don't know when people started thinking they should or could alter their body's pH balance, but you can't, and if you do, you could die. It reminds me of those people that they sell different kinds of water, and they're like, this changes your blood pH.

And I'm like, no, it doesn't because that would kill you pretty much immediately. Your stomach and intestines digestive tract changes that into what it needs to be, which is regular water, and you don't need the machine. Way to get around the marketing restrictions on labels and things. So like, okay, we'll try this until they outlaw it. Exactly. your lungs, your kidneys, all that stuff takes care of your body's pH balance. And what actually maintains vaginal health is balanced flora, hydration, diet, and just overall health.

If your genitals require a goop subscription, maybe capitalism's the real infection. Keep your communism down there in Echo Park, you hipster. Well, studies show there are more bacteria in your mouth than in your vagina. So relax and just don't believe the marketing hype. What about discharge? People treat that like it's dirty, but not to be too gross. Isn't special cleaning needed there with the discharge and the smells and stuff? Not even a little bit.

Go ahead and deuce your penis hole and get back to me, whatever. But I pee out of there. So is that not, that's kind of cleaning. Discharge is part of how the vaginal microbiome maintains itself. It changes throughout a women's cycle. it's not dirty, it's information. And so if something smells sharply fishy or you have itching or burning, that's when you see a doctor, not a steam spa. Got it.

The vaginal microbiome sounds like an absolutely fire punk band. But what exactly is that? We should have probably covered that earlier. The vaginal microbiome is one of the most finely tuned ecosystems on Earth. What's happening there is the role of lactobacillusilus. So it does get affected by antibiotics, by what you eat, sex, and hormones, which is why overcleansing can backfire. If you use mouthwash 50 times a day, it just nukes everything and then bad stuff moves in.

Yeah, I understand that. I actually knew a girl who used mouthwash literally like 30 to 50 times. Every time we did anything, she was always mouthwashing. And it was like an OCD thing, I think, but she had sores in her mouth. And I was like, oh, but you're using all this mouthwash. And our friend who's like a doctor, he goes, now what's happening is she's killed all the healthy mouth bacteria. So all these opportunistic infections that a normal person would never have move in there. It's like when you have HIV or something in the 80s and they couldn't counteract it, you'd get all this stuff that doesn't make sense because you're basically, your immune system is totally gone.

So there's a whole industry that has convinced a lot of people that vaginas need maintenance. Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing when you're douching your vagina. You're cleaning out all the good stuff and the bad stuff moves in. And people are just convinced that vaginas are inherently wrong. In the 1920s, Lysaw, the household cleaner, was marketed as a vaginal douche. Oh, my God. Ouch. It's not the same thing, though.

Is it that spray that kills all the, is it the same thing? The thing people would clean their toilets with. Oh, my God. Yeah. The ads suggested that women who didn't douche were failing their husbands. Oh, my God. Color me surprised. that vaginal douching is encouraged because of men.

But that had to cause chemical burns. If you get lysol on your skin and you don't wash it off, it hurts, let alone on a mucus membrane. Absolutely. But the ads kept running because shame sells. And that's still the playbook. The feminine hygiene industry is worth billions. And it's all based on lies. So what should people actually do?

Wash the vulva with warm water and mild, unscended soap if you want. want, that's it. Don't put any cleansers inside. If something feels off, talk to a clinician, not an influencer. So don't give it a lollipop. Okay, but what about smells? What should vaginas smell like? They should smell like you. They should smell like you. The owner, not like me personally. Every vagina should smell like Jordan Parvinger. Yeah. A lot of them do, actually. Unfortunately, for the, see a doctor if your vagina smells like me. A healthy vagina. It has a mind. scent and that's normal. Your diet might affect it slightly, but the obsession with making it smell like flowers is just more marketing. And it's not consistent. Like throughout our cycle,

our scent changes. Men have scents too, by the way, which is fine. But I have noticed these bogus products that are always marketed to women. They're starting to creep into the men's department too. I assure you guys, you don't need fresh meadow scrotum mist. Yeah, this episode. brought to you by Scrotum Mist. Don't fix the problem. Mask it. Okay, so does scrotum mist actually exist? Is that a real? I made it up, but there are products that, yeah. I mean, isn't that kind of what Axe body spray used to be? Yeah, Axe. Yeah, like you could spray this under your armpits, or we can get people to use more by telling them it should go all over their body. Yeah, or you could just jump in the shower for five minutes. Yeah, no thanks. That's too much work.

All right, let's talk about periods because even saying period makes people. weird and there's people pausing this right now and stuff. I know, right? That time of the month, Ant Flo, Shark Week. Just say period. It's a basic body function. Not a shameful mystery. It literally happens to every woman once a month. Just say it. It seems like we're still shaking off how women were treated during their periods throughout history. Yeah, we are. For most of human history, there were no pads or tampons. People used whatever worked, right? Moss, animal skins, papyrus. Even in ancient times, they would wrap lint around sticks, which I can't even imagine. That sounds awful. And then cloth rags became the standard. That's

literally where the phrase on the rag comes from. Gosh, that all sounds miserable. Yeah, definitely not comfortable. And disposable pads didn't show up until the early 20th century designed by men who didn't menstruate. So these are, Early versions, they had to be pinned in place or worn with belts. What are you pinning? You're pinning it to your clothes, I hope. Yes, not your skin, your clothes. Adhesive pads didn't become common until decades later.

Yeah, that's insane. Both that the products came so late in that women weren't the ones designing them, because you'd think if you're going to make something, you might want to, I don't know, consult somebody with a vagina. I know. And it's almost like women should be the ones making decisions about female issues. Don't be ridiculous. This show is free because our advertisers are somehow less afraid of the word vagina than most politicians.

We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Why did it take so long for product options for women to come on the market? It seems like this would have been lucrative in the first place. It seems like this should have existed forever. It was just ignored because menstrual health research,

was and is underfunded. And disposable products then became insanely profitable, which discouraged more innovation. If men bled from their balls once a month, every toilet would come with a built-in bidet and free products. These products are expensive. Yeah, I'm famously a bidet guy, so I can get behind that. But when profit drives design instead of safety, people pay the price. Like with the toxic shock crisis in the 1980s with these super absorbent tampons. I kind of remember that. What exactly happened? So toxic shock syndrome is this rare but life-threatening illness and it's caused by bacterial toxins that enter the bloodstream. It's historically linked to these high-absorbency tampons that were left in too long. But it's also seen with skin infections or surgery sometimes. It often shows as a

staff infection, and it comes on fast. You get like a high fever, vomiting, rash, dizziness. So if symptoms appear, remove the tampon immediately and run to the ER. But it was really bad in the 1980s because these ultra-absorbent synthetic tampons, they let bacteria thrive and toxins build up, especially when they were left in too long, which was this design failure and it turned convenience into a really serious risk until those products were pulled and safety standards changed. That didn't happen until after several women died. Oh, wow. Women died from this.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It peaked in the early part of the 80s at about 100 deaths a year. Wow. But they pulled the products and by 1989 there were zero menstrual deaths that were reported. So today we have more options. There's safer tampons, pads, cups, period underwear. the cups are the healthiest because they can be worn for up to 12 hours. They're reusable. They're eco-friendly.

And period underwear has these built-in absorbent layers. You wash and reuse. And they're game changers. So I discourage women from using tampons at all. Again, designed by one man, this guy, Earl Haas, who didn't seem to think about how those fibers leave tiny scratches in our vaginas, which sets us up for an infections. I did not realize that. By the way, the cups, is that like a silicone thing that you dump out and wash? Dump it out, rinse it and put it back in. I hate to use this terminology. I feel bad, but it just sort of like plugs you up for a while. Is that what it does? Yeah. I mean, it's just thoughtfully designed and it just collects the blood and then when it's filled, you dump it out and rinse it and put it back in. It seems like you could accidentally make a huge mess doing that if you pull it out wrong. I assume you got to be sitting on the pot to do the

that. Yeah, I mean, I've seen people do it in the ladies' room at the sink. Savages. No, I'm kidding. We're good at this. Yeah, that seems, because for me, I'm trying to imagine doing that down there without being able to see everything, and I just... It's like seeing a woman take her bra off without taking her shirt off, you know, you just kind of learn. Yes, impressive. Okay. Can you lose a tampon inside you? This seems dumb. I know people are going to be like, you're stupid, and you don't know what vaginas are like, no. It's a fine question, but it can't go past the cervix. So a tampon can't. can get stuck, though, and yes, accidents happen. I grew up with a girl. Her brother kicked her so

hard in the crotch that her tampon had to be surgically removed. So these accidents can happen. And gosh, I haven't thought about her in so long. But Taylor, wherever you are now, I hope your vagina is happy. Her vagina might be fine. Her cervix has a dent in it. That's incredible. Wow. This is why anything you put inside your vagina should have a string on it. Yeah, but I assume it went into her uterus through, like it punched through her cervix or so. That must have hurt so bad. Yeah, it was quite the talk of ninth grade. Talk of the town.

What about menstrual huts, Jess? What do you think of those? What about them? Do you think they're a good idea? Women being sent away during their periods to face exposure, sometimes violence. Women have died in menstrual huts. Really? In places like Nepal, today, girls are still sent to isolated huts during their periods because they're considered impure.

And these huts often have poor sanitation, little food, no protection from cold or animals. And people have gotten seriously hurt or died from exposure. I read about a lot of snake bites happened to girls in these huts. So it's illegal in some countries now, but it's still. happens. So a menstrual hut, it's not a spa retreat for you to enjoy and relax a little. Not even close. It's period shaming to its most extreme form. And that same idea that menstruation is contamination, it shows up in subtler ways too, like tampon taxes. People are embarrassed to buy products. We just treat periods like something to hide. What about period pain? Because I feel like the default setting is take some ibuproval.

open and shut the heck up. It can't be that bad. Yeah. Again, women have not historically had a seat at these research tables. So some cramping is normal, but debilitating pain is also really common. There was a recent study done by female doctors that shows menstrual pain can be as painful as myocardial infarction. A heart attack. Yeah, indeed. It hurts a lot. Not every time and not every time. and not every one, but women experience vomiting, passing out, inability to function because there are often underlying conditions like endometriosis or fibroids. Again, the language about how

complex female anatomy is matters. It's not just cramps. It's intense pain. Endometriosis is when tissue similar to the uterine lining grows outside the uterus. That can cause severe, severe pain, heavy bleeding, sometimes infertility, and about one in ten women have it. And it currently takes an average of seven to ten years for a woman to be diagnosed. That's crazy common. And seven to ten years, why so long? Because doctors just don't take women's pain seriously. They say it's just part of being a woman or it's in your head. Women's pain is routinely dismissed as emotional or exaggerated. Yeah, that's horrifying, though. Because endometriosis is crazy pain. I've heard of that before. People are just living with it. And it's well documented. This is a systemic issue. And it's rooted in centuries of medical sexism. Medical sexism sounds bad. It's really bad. And modern gynecology in the United States was literally built on experiments and torture on enslaved black women. So this guy, J. Marion Sims, is often called the father of modern gynecology. But he develops.

surgical techniques by experimenting on enslaved black women without anesthesia. Without anesthesia. That's Nazi level stuff. He operated on one black woman over and over, like at least 30 surgeries. And he claimed black women didn't feel pain the same way white women did, which is a racist lie that still echoes in medical bias today. That is truly disgusting. Yeah. And today, black women in the U.S., they're still. still three to four times more likely to die from pregnancy-related complications. Recently, Serena Williams, she almost died after giving birth because the doctors didn't listen to her symptoms.

If Serena Williams, who's probably a billionaire, can't get doctors to listen, what does that say for everyone else? So when we talk about vaginas, we're not just talking about anatomy. We're talking race, class, power, history, and sex. still, women's pain is generally dismissed as hysterical. Yeah, so the word hysteria has a fun little etymology, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Hysteria comes from the Greek word for uterus, and for centuries,

any woman who was anxious or depressed or angry or just inconvenient could be labeled hysterical and was institutionalized. And then one of these treatments was pelvicmen. massage. So doctors manually stimulated women to orgasm to supposedly release their hysteria. And eventually, the vibrator was invented as a medical device not to help women, but to speed things up because, and this is a real quote, the doctor's hands got tired. Wow. So the vibrator was invented to make male doctors jobs easier. That is ironic. So now it just replaces husbands or so I've heard. I also think it's worth noting here, this is before gloves. God, yeah, raw dog

medicine. Yeah. The fact that pelvic massage brought women pleasure was treated like a side effect. So that's the level of absurdity we're dealing with historically. It's amazing they could even figure it out since the clitoris was barely acknowledged until the 20th century. Like, it wasn't fully mapped until 1998. This is insane. It's like men who, probably never even saw a vagina were treating them and treating them wrong. I do think it would have been funny to be a doctor back in the day who specialized in hysteria. Oh, yes, sir. I'll be over right away. Situate your wife on the kitchen table and go to bed. She'll be fine by morning. Wink, wink, wink. Just put some gasoline in my special vibrator tool here. Oh, God, gross. I mean, this ick is why I've always

insisted on a female gynecologist. Yeah. But I want to tell you, the first gynecologist I went to, was a man. I was 14, 15 whenever you first go. He had also delivered me at birth. And he was in my whole family's vaginas, my mom, aunt, sisters. But at that first visit, I thought it was weird. It wasn't a woman. And then, Jordan, I saw his car in his designated parking space when we were leaving. My mom just laughed when I pointed out his license plate. This man's personalized license plate read Goldfinger. Oh, God. G-L-D-F-N-G-R. It's 100% true. And I refuse to go back. I think Dr. Stacks dead now, so I'm sure he was a fine doctor, but I would never have been comfortable discussing my body's development with him. Certainly did not want that man giving me a pap smear. What are those actually for? I've heard of those before.

Yeah. So a pap smear is a screening test to find abnormal cells on the cervix that could become cancer. and it's incredibly important, and it saves lives. And the procedure is relatively easy, but really vulnerable. If you lie on the table, your feet are in the stirrups, a speculum is inserted to open the vagina. I assure you you're not aroused. And the doctor uses this small, like brush to collect cells from the cervix. Yeah, that sounds like a medieval torture session. Yeah, it kind of looks like a torture device.

It's uncomfortable, and for some people, painful. But regular screening dramatically cuts cervical cancer deaths. And generally, if you have a cervix, you should be screened every three years starting in your 20s. It just seems like there has to be a better way than a metal beak from 1900. Not surprising, women doctors have now invented better options. Things like HPV, which is the human papillomavirus, which is extremely common, and it's spread through skin-to-skin contact. It has no symptoms, but it can lead to cancers that are now easier to screen for. So there's tests that look directly for high-risk strains of the virus that cause cervical cancers.

There's swabs for HPV that you can do yourself with no speculum now. And there are improved speculum designs, thank you, lady doctors, and techniques that focus more on patient comfort. But the whole, like, women should feel pain, childbirth. is supposed to hurt, stop complaining mindset, that's really slowed innovation. But that's not all you go to the gynecologist for, right? There's other issues specific to the vagina you have to look out for? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeast infections are really common. That's an overgrowth of yeast that normally lives in the vagina and causes intense burning

and itching. There's bacterial vaginosis, which we mentioned before, which is an out of balance bacterial infection, that usually expresses itself after sex. Dirty dicks. I knew it. Yeah, that seems to be the culprit. And women often suffer urinary tract infections. That's not the vagina, but it's all in the same zip code. So people confuse the three.

And studies show only a third of women who buy these over-the-counter yeast medications actually have yeast. So the rest have something else. again, vocabulary matters. So trust your body when something feels wrong, but go to the doctor. Which isn't always so easy in America, depending on the options you have within your state and through your health insurance. Sure. That's why we need Planned Parenthood. But as far as birth control, every method has pros and cons.

The pill is still very common. It's around 99% effective if you use it perfectly. So it's closer to like 90% in real life because people misdeme. But there's side effects from that. Some people feel great. Some get mood changes, weight shifts, lower libido, and all of this gets brushed off by doctors. What about IUDs? Are those any better? Yeah, IUDs are over 99% effective, and they last for years, which is great. So this is an intrauterine device. It's a device that goes inside your uterus. Yeah, they alter your hormone levels. There's hormonal and copper versions, and they're great. Great for many people, but the insertion is actually really painful.

Doctors often downplay that. I actually have a friend who's, she's going through it right now. Her IUD went missing in her uterus. Just lost. We're like, yeah, we don't know what happened to it, which I've heard is more common than we think, but there's not a lot of equivalent like, oops, we lost a medical device and your scrotum.

But it's scary. She had to have an MRI and is currently waiting to have it surgically removed because it's like just floating around in her uterus. Yeah, I feel like us guys, we would have a task force for that. I know. She's just sitting around freaking out. Yeah, it's just floating around in there. But there's also implants in the arm.

There's shots every three months, patches, rings. Condoms are still the only method that protects against STIs, sexually transmitted infections. There's emergency contraception like Plan B. It has a huge target on its back politically, but it's a critical tool for preventing pregnancy after unprotected sex. And Plan B has a pretty long shelf life. So it's not a bad idea to stock up right now because, depending on what happens in your state, you may be able to help someone in a few years if that drug becomes unavailable.

I also just read a report, non-sequitur, but I just read a report that says one of the most commonly door-dashed items is Plan B. Early morning delivery guys providing health care. Amazing. Like, where do you get your health care? DoorDash and Amazon. We could probably do a whole episode on birth control. But why so much fearmongering about this?

That's a million dollar question. But because reproductive autonomy threatens systems of control. When women can control if and when they have kids, then they can control their education, their careers, their lives. And that makes some people very uncomfortable. It's wild that our vaginas are regulated by the government. Yeah, let's not open that can of worms just now. But man, women are strong to deal with the fact that they are born with a vagina in the first place. I know. And we keep getting stronger. That's why kegles are so popular these days. Yeah, everyone's heard of those. Not to brag, but I used to hold the record on Kagle Camp, which is a Kagle app by my friend Emily Morris. She runs sex with Emily podcast and stuff.

I was on level 20. Nobody else even came close. That is amazing. I don't even know what that means level 20, but for anyone who isn't, a record holder like you. Kegles are exercises for the pelvic floor muscles. And that supports your bladder, your uterus, your bowel. And done correctly, they can help with incontinence, and they can improve sexual function. And they can help men, too, like things like premature ejaculation and bladder control. I don't know what your problem is, Jordan.

None. I got a distance record. The problem is most people do them wrong. and they're not for everybody. How do you do them wrong? So you can do them wrong by clenching your abs or your thighs or your butt instead of the pelvic floor. The vocabulary matters. You have to know what you're targeting.

Or if you bear down instead of lifting up or you hold your breath, you can make things worse if your pelvic floor is already too tight. So some people need to relax their pelvic floor, not tighten it. So a good doctor can guide you to what exercises you should be doing. So not everything is solved just by doing. tiggles. I actually don't even know how to relax your pelvic floor or stretch it or whatever. I mean, you would have to probably take some pregnancy courses, I think. Squats. Got to do some deep squats. Yeah. It's back to the literacy again. You need to know what

you're talking about. What happens with age? Because vaginas don't just retire. Definitely not. As estrogen declines, especially after menopause, you can get vaginal atrophy, thinner, drier tissue, less elasticity, more discomfort. with sex, more infections. But the good news is there are vaginal moisturizers, lubricants, and low-dose vaginal estrogen that acts locally. So hormone therapy has been unfairly demonized, and for lots of people under medical guidance, it can be really safe and life-improving. So staying sexually active, solo, or with a partner can help maintain blood flow and elasticity. So sex in your 60s, it might be different than in your 20s, but it can still be really good.

And sex should always be really good. That's kind of the point. Yeah, always. For all the men listening, it's important for you to understand the complexities of the female anatomy to make your sex life better too. So communication is everything for healthy, fun, satisfying sex. I like to think of sex as like a competitive sport. Okay. So like be louder than your neighbors. I don't. know what you mean. Just understand the game, understand the positions and the equipment, and I don't know, I'm going to win. But once I knew about the orgasm gap, I feel like I got competitive. What's the orgasm gap? In heterosexual encounters, men orgasm 95% of the time.

Women orgasm 65% of the time. And in lesbian encounters, women orgasm about 85% of the time. So the common denominator is what? Prioritize female pleasure. It's not women's bodies. It's knowledge and effort. Yeah, sounds like a lot of work. But I guess we all deserve participation trophies and snacks and you just hope you don't pull a muscle.

Warm up everybody. Right. And respect your teammate. Asking questions about vaginas isn't indecent. It's necessary. The more we understand about our bodies, the less power shame and pseudoscience have over us. Okay. The feminine hygiene industry, the cosmetic surgery industry, a lot of these wellness brands, they profit from making women feel broken.

Viginas are not broken. They're incredible. Anything that can produce pain, pleasure, and another human being should probably be celebrated and not be a taboo. So to the vaginas of the world, I salute you. Yes, me too. You are powerful. You are weird. You are wonderful. You're not a problem to be solved. So just let your vagina do its job and stop buying. detox pearls. Right. Yes. It's time to retire the pussy pop. All right, I'm going to go buy my wife and her vagina some flowers and candy, maybe not candy for the vagina. Thanks, Jess, for letting us get inside a woman. Of course. And thank you for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday. To me, Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com, advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, where you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her substacks between

the lines and where shadows linger, we'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Tadasidlowski, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. And I'm definitely not a gynecologist as evidenced by this episode. Also, we try to get these as right as we can.

Not everything is gospel, even if it's fact-checked. So consult a qualified professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well-being. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show

so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. What if the most powerful pain killer, memory booster, and mood shifter wasn't in your medicine cabinet, but in your playlist? Well, experiential fusion is a term coined by Richard Davidson at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who works closely with the Dalai Lama about altered states and meditative states and such. And the idea is that it's sometimes referred to as flow,

although it's slightly different, a flow state. You're in the zone. If you're a basketball player, or if you're a coder, you just lose track of time. But the experiential fusion that you and I are talking about with music is that under the right circumstances, you forget that you're listening to music. You might even forget who you are. you become one with the experience.

There is an evidence-based now for music therapies and music interventions. We know that music can affect the immune system in several ways. Listening to pleasurable music can increase levels of immunoglobulin A, an important antibody that travels to the site of mucosal infections and helps fights them off. We know that music that is pleasurable to you can increase the brain. production of natural killer cells and T-cells, also important for fighting disease and infection. Some music can lead to reductions in inflammation. Why music does this and why the immune system responds to it, we don't know. But it does. For more on how music hacks your brain's chemistry

to heal in ways that medicine can't, check out episode 1147 with neuroscientist Daniel J. Leviton. Quick break to recommend something that's useful. If you want to stay in the loop on what's happening in the world without doom scrolling for an hour, simple English News Daily is perfect. It's seven minutes a day, super easy to follow, gives you the most simple version of the biggest stories from different continents every day. Africa, Asia, Europe, the Americas, you name it. And the best part, no opinion, no analysis, just the news, clean, clear, and done.

Just search Simple English News Daily in your podcast app or go to send7.org. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know Podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested,

and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that, I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts.

Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.