The Jordan Harbinger Show - 129: Chris Pfaff | The Drama Behind the Young and Reckless

Episode Date: December 4, 2018

Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Chris "Drama" Pfaff (@dramadrama) is a former reality TV personality, host of the Short Story Long Podcast, and founder of streetwear clothing line Young and Reckless. What We Discuss with Chris Pfaff: Why Chris decided to take his skateboard from suburban Akron -- where escaped cows made the evening news -- to Los Angeles, where high-speed car chases barely raise eyebrows. What it's taken so far for Chris to make it in today's cutthroat fashion business climate -- especially when he has to work twice as hard to overcome what others expect from his "dumb" reality TV persona. How to stay tenacious -- like someone raised in the Midwest -- when you fail over and over again. Why sometimes running a business -- even something as fun and exciting as a top-level streetwear brand -- can be more of a curse than a blessing. How Chris feels about regretting something he has done versus regretting something he hasn't done. And much more... Sport Clips is like no other place you've ever gotten your hair cut. There are TVs everywhere playing sports and guy-smart stylists who know how to give you the haircut you want in over 1,700 locations! Find out what you've been missing at SportClips.com/checkin! Learn over 500 subjects (no tests or homework!) at The Great Courses Plus -- including Boosting Your Emotional Intelligence. Listeners to this podcast can check out a free trial at thegreatcoursesplus.com/jordan! Need custom graphics, logos, or Web design? Access a community of 600,000+ designers by registering at designcrowd.com/jordan and enjoy up to $100 off with The Jordan Harbinger Show bonus offer! Sign up for Level One of Advanced Human Dynamics -- our free networking and relationship development mini course at jordanharbinger.com/levelone! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! Full show notes and resources can be found here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

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Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason DePhilippo. I first met Chris, aka Drama, Faf, in my elevator while we were neighbors in Hollywood. And back then, he was the butt of every joke

on one of my favorite TV shows, Rob and Big, and he had big dreams of starting a clothing brand, like everyone else our age in Hollywood. Well, us Midwest kids have something in common. We almost never give up. We can learn lessons the hard way and keep on trucking. And drama is one of those kids as well.

I traveled to Los Angeles to the headquarters of his clothing brand, young and reckless, where I stepped over boxes and boxes of clothes and passed rows of hip, 20-something clothing designers crafting next season styles right before my eyes. And what follows is a very frank discussion of what it takes to make it in today's business climate, especially in the sort of young, fast-moving,

textiles, clothing, fashion, and how to stay tenacious when you fail over and over again is something we talk about. And why sometimes running a business, even something as fun and exciting as a top-level streetwear brand, can be more of a curse than a blessing. We had a ton of fun in this interview, and I'm really grateful for the chance

to capture some of drama's experience and wisdom here on this episode to share with all of you. All right, here's Chris Drama Faf. I've got to say, I'm super impressed because I've seen a lot of people who start clothing brands. Yeah. I mean, you know where this is going. Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, okay, you have a t-shirt company. That's cute. See you in six months when you're like, fuck, it's hard to sell t-shirts. Nobody wants them. And so I didn't know what to expect because, of course, my initial impression of you was from Robin Bigg, before you were my neighbor. Yeah. It was from Robin Big.

You were like the butt of all the jokes. Absolutely. And then I was like, oh, okay, drama starting a clothing brand. Oh, what a cliche. I'm so sorry for this guy right now. Yep. And so I knew that, right? Yeah.

I knew that in my head at the time. And also, I know, especially now more than ever, how much the apparel business is just riddled with that same story. And so I think that, like, in the beginning, I tried everything I possibly could to not be that. You know, like, whether it was going. How? Well, the main thing was this. Like, when I launched the brand, it was drama, the, like, dummy from reality TV mixed with this. mixed with this guy from reality TV is starting a merch line, right?

And then mixed with the fact of like the show for good and bad was so massive that like it was so connected to me and merch no matter what I did. Yeah. So the main thing that I did was first of all, I went and found really good business partners. I didn't go try to print shirts myself and sell them on. You know what I mean? Like I went and found guys who had had a clothing line for 10 years before me. They made full collections of clothing. and that kind of gave me a head start

in actually producing and making a real clothing line. The second thing was I did as much marketing as I possibly could outside of myself. So it wasn't, I tried to shy away from me like on Facebook at the time saying, go buy my shirt, go buy my shirt, and tried to go do, you know, we did a really big project with like Meek Mill early on

and we had every single little actor and influencer and everyone coming by the office and taking pictures in the shirts because I knew I had to do like twice the amount as everyone else see it as like the new clothing line, not drama's little project. Right, right. But I was well aware that I was like up against the mountain of, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. What is it like? Not stigma? Because it wasn't, I mean, everyone was like, wow, you're on MTV. It wasn't stigma, but it's kind of like you weren't in the role of savvy business owner. Not at all. I was in the role of idiot.

Yeah, you were the guy who was like, did you forget to sweep the floor after you spilled? And you're like, I'll get right on it. Exactly. And I was just thinking like, oh, where is this kid from? Yeah. And the answer, of course, is Akron, Ohio. I'm from Michigan. So, yeah, we're neighbors.

We've been neighbors our whole life. That's right. And we didn't even know. Yeah. And it's, it is true, though, like when you grow up out there, when we were growing up out there, no one's thinking about this stuff. Not just clothing lines or TV, but no one around where we, a few people, I should say, around where we are, even has this kind of mindset.

And I kind of want to start from there. Yeah, please. You grew up skateboarding, obviously, as evidenced by the brand and the one wheel. in the corner and everything. I still keep a little bit of the skateboard thing. To keep the street credit in the office. Remember where I came from? Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Yeah. Because Akron's not, no one's like, oh, Akron. I'm going to move to Akron someday. Hell, no, they're not. We're Ohio in general. And I'm also, exactly. I'm also from like outside of Akron.

Like, Akron was exciting. You know, like I'm from this small town called Coventry. And yeah, there's just nothing going on whatsoever. I didn't know it at the time, right? That's your normal. It took a few years. Finally, when I went back to visit for Christmas one year, I was like, oh, my God. Like, how did I ever exist here?

Right. But there's nothing going on. I always tell the story that outside of the window of my high school was a farm with cows. And we would literally sit during class and, like, watch cows. And one of the biggest news moments that I remember from my entire childhood was one of the cows escaped one night. And they were tracking it through the streets of Coventry. and we were all like getting phone calls. I remember my mom was getting phone calls.

Oh, the cow was seen on Manchester Road. And they finally caught the cow. And like that's the type of shit that was going on there, right? Like it was, you know, cows escaping. Cows escaping. Caking news. So how did you feel like I'm going to L.A.? Because people have been traveling out here for showbiz for, I don't know,

a hundred years or something close to it. So similar. Like people come here the same way if you want to be an actor, you know you need to come to L.A. There's really no other option. I grew up skateboarding. In skateboarding, it's the same way. L.A. is like the world capital of skateboarding.

And it's where all the brands are. It's where all the famous skate spots are. It's where all the pros live. So I was just obsessed with skateboarding. So the next logical move was to move to L.A. So I think from like age 14, I just knew the moment I graduate high school, I'm going to L.A. And I just, I knew around like 16, I wasn't good enough to be a pro skateboarder, even though

that was my dream. Yeah. So it was like, whatever. I'll work at a skate shop. I'll film skaters. I'll do something. But I was so obsessed with skateboarding. I just followed that.

So that's really what, you know, it was that. And it was the same thing that we just talked about. Nothing's going on in Ohio. And it was just like, I need to get out of here. And it was either that.

And New York has winter, so it's like an easy choice. Yeah. And New York isn't, New York's like a fun place for people to go skateboard, but there's not that much of like the culture there. So I didn't really connect with New York.

L.A. was like. Yeah, Venice Beach and people hanging out. Yeah. It was the end-all-be-all. Like I always say there will never be another city in my life that I, like, idolize as much as I did L.A., my entire childhood. Yeah. You know? Interesting.

I feel you there. Yeah. I do wonder, though, like it sounds like you have the same issue as me where you're pulled by opportunity, but maybe not by like a vision. More like a dream, yes, for sure. Opportunity, yes. But I don't know if I didn't have a grand plan coming out. When I went to New York first, I used to be an attorney. but then I left Ohio.

It's like the same, or sorry, I left Michigan, you left Ohio. Are you ever kind of jealous, and I rarely get a chance to ask this, are you ever kind of jealous like, you got your friends who you grew up with, they got married when they were like 22, they had kids when they were like 25, their days are 9 to 5, they have kids that they're super happy, they're totally content with it. Yeah. They didn't have to come out here, risk it all, get a clothing brand, go on TV, like,

go through all the ups and downs. Because when I go visit my family and a lot of them are like teachers and stuff, I'm like, I'm a little jealous that that's totally fine for them. Yeah. Because if I did that, I would be really like, I'd be antsy and itchy all the time. Yeah. But it must be nice to be content with something that is more. For sure.

I think that the only part of it that I'm jealous of is, like you just said, like, the level of contentment. You know, because for me, for whatever reason, it's just not that way. And so when I see those people or go visit or whatever, I think, like, how. the heck is this possible? Like, how is this your life? You know, and not to sound like I'm hating on anyone's life, but it's like, man, like, how is this what you do every day? You know? And, and, and but for them, they're perfectly happy, maybe happier than I am at times. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like, you come in and they're like, hey, drama, bad news. We're not getting that shipment in time. So the shipment to the department store is going to be delayed and you got to talk to

the CEO and he is pissed. Oh, and we lost a million dollars. And you're just like, why didn't I become a gym teacher again? It's so true. Yeah, I think that that feeling definitely exists, but I'm so, like, I love what I do, you know, and I genuinely love, especially right now in this, like, time period of my life, I'm super happy and really thankful that I get to do what I get to do and actually make money doing it. And I mean that, not in the, like, corny, like, I love everything.

Yeah. But so I'm happy and I'm just so glad, like, you know, you know, you know, you know, you. I don't know. I know some people are content, but I think sometimes when I look at those people, I'm like, man, you don't realize what you were capable of. Like, you don't realize what you could have done.

And, like, I know that you're happy, but your life, you could have been happy a little bit on a couple different levels. You know, if you would have... A lot of those people that I talk to genuinely spend time wondering what could have been. Oh, really? And that's my biggest fear.

You know, they seem happy. You know, they seem happy when you go visit them and you compare your life. But, like, I know that those, a lot of those people, not all of them, but a lot of them do think, like, what if I would have done that thing, you know? And I don't ever want to have that thing. Yeah.

What do you think the difference is between, was there a moment in your life where you're like, I'm just going to start this? It must have been after you got to L.A. where you went, all right, I'm not just going to be getting clowned on this MTV reality show for three years. And then that ends and then you're just like working at a skate shop or something. Yeah, my whole life, kind of like how you said about like opportunity versus vision, right? My whole life has been a story of chasing opportunity, and once I see it or get it, I create the vision and chase that, right?

And so that was like moving to L.A. was with the goal of working at a skate shop or whatever. That was my dream, right? But then when I got here, I saw all of these people doing such amazing things. I became close with my cousin, Rob, who, you know, when we were growing up, we didn't really know each other. He moved out here when I was like three years old or something. Oh, is he that much older than? Yeah. So how old are you?

So I'm 31. Okay. And he's, I feel really bad that I'm blanking, but I think he's like 45. Yeah, because he must be a little bit older than me as well. Yeah. So he moved out here when he was, number one, he grew up three hours away from me, and then he moved out here when he was 16. And so I was, you know, three years old or something.

Did he move out by himself? Yeah, he moved out with a bunch of skater friends. Wow. I'm surprised his mom let him do that. He didn't really, that's one thing about him. Like, he's such a like, go for it, do everything on your own time thing. And he's always been that way. So he dropped out of high school and came and just kind of said, like, parents, sorry.

And I think at the time they hated him for it. But then obviously it paid off. Sure. So he's always been that way. But he came out with a, he was like a super promising pro skateboarder, young skateboarder, and he came out to like chase that dream with a couple of his friends. And it paid off. But the point was he grew up like three hours away.

He moved out here when I was like three years old. So we didn't really know him. We just knew we had this cool skateboarder cousin that lived in L.A. after I moved here, we ended up becoming super close, and he ended up becoming like a big brother to me, right? And so then I saw everything he was doing and what was possible in that. This was before MTV.

Then we start filming an MTV show. I see what's possible there. I start trying to get in on that. And so then, you know, like I said, I watched Big Black create a clothing line. I watched our friend create the brand rogue status with all the guns all over it. That was the bomb for a minute.

The bomb. So that was the one that really, I would say more than anything inspired me to start a brand was that one because I watched Johan, the founder, make it, he got Rob on board, Rob started wearing it on TV, it took off, everyone loved it. He had this really cool culture around his brand down in Venice where they had a store and everyone would gather there and it was just so cool. It was like a little gang. It was like the rogue status guys. Yeah. And that really affected me and I spent a lot of time with him and whatever. So anyway, the point is I keep seeing

these things that are possible and then I keep trying to find my way in and do it and blah and that's kind of how it grew. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Chris Drama Fath. We'll be right back after this. Don't forget, we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Chris Fath. That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. Thanks for listening and supporting the show.

To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great decisions. count you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to just go to jordanharbinger.com slash subscribe. And now back to the show with Chris Drama Fath. I remember going to the rogue status store and they were out of everything because they couldn't make it fast enough. No.

At one point anyway, to satisfy the demand. And that must have, it's interesting to see how being around, I advocate for this a lot. You only go as high as your five closest friends. It's like a Jim Rohn quote. And a lot of people just say that to be like, oh, I watch YouTube videos of these people. So they're rubbing off on me. Maybe a little true, but you moving out here and being like, oh, I'm cool selling skate shoes and skateboards. And then people who you think are kind of maybe like one rung above on the ladder, like Big Black.

Like he had a different role with Rob's company, Rob Dirk, the pro skateboarded, who's your cousin, though, just for the audience who's like, wait, who? But he's not, he wasn't a genius. Yeah. And Big Black, right? Yeah, yeah, there's opportunity. And you're like, wait a minute. If he can start a clothing line, I can start a clothing line. And I'll tell you this.

I have never met and spoke to someone that I truly just thought this is a genius and this is completely out of my realm. Everyone, and that may sound air, I don't know what it sounds like, but everyone that I've sat and talked to, I've been like, damn, like they're a human too. Like they're just somebody that had a vision, put in a lot of work and figured something out. And, like, I'm capable of that, you know? Definitely. And I've never sat with anyone. I've also never sat with like, maybe Kanye West is a genius. I don't know.

I've never sat with anyone and said, oh, they're just way above me. Yeah, next level thinking. Yeah. I get some of that in the tech world when I, because I live up in Silicon Valley, and they're like, yeah, I just saw this opportunity for hardware-mounted security systems. And I was like, okay, well, I am not even on the same solar system. That's where the geniuses are. Yeah. Yeah.

But when you're thinking of like a brand or somebody leverages publicity to create an opportunity, that that's the oldest game in town in L.A. Nobody's like breaking the mold here. Yeah. You know, we're just reinventing. And like I think, I don't know, that's once again why was a lot of the motivation for my podcast was because I just learned so much from sitting with someone and talking to them. And it's like usually after a conversation, you feel a little bit more capable of doing something because it brings them down to earth. And you're like, like I said, it just kind of makes sense. It's like, oh, this is attainable.

And so I wanted to force myself to keep having those conversations and also spread them. But that's where I learned so much. But yeah. How did you get the bug then to become an entrepreneur instead of just, like you could have just a lot and a lot of people would have just said, hey, look, I'm on TV. This is pretty cool. Girls recognize me when I go out at night. Yep.

This is as good as it gets. So two things. For me, I have learned at 31 years old that what I'm really addicted. to more than anything isn't like clothing, isn't fashion, isn't money. It's, it's just growth. It's just having something to attack in the morning and feeling like I did a decent job of doing it at night, right? And just constantly growing and involving. And I think that that's what has led me through all of these different worlds and all these different things. And also on much more of like ground level, being a reality star or a celebrity or whatever you want to call it was just

whack to me. It was always lame to me. It was never like it was always a way to a we were having an incredible time and having fun. Jumping in the phone pit. Yeah, it was amazing. But, but it was, what I'm saying is it was a way to launch other things. And it was a way to launch businesses and to do all these different things. It was never, there was never a point with anyone, any one of us that was, well, this is great because I'm going to be able to do so many more club appearances now. You know what I mean? Like that was never. I should be a DJ now. Yeah. Like, how do I get on real? world. You know, like it was, it was always a means to something else. Never the goal. And I don't know why. Maybe that's our skater culture. Maybe that's whatever it is. But the idea of walking around with,

you know, on your business card having reality TV star was about the lamest thing in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine that. Yeah. Well, there's a reason that they have those like celebrity rehab or like celebrity boxing matches. And people don't watch because they're like, oh, I love tea, a tequila, right? They're just like, I want to see her get punched in the face. Absolutely. That's going to be the new YouTube. You know, that's like the Pauls and the, they're boxing each other now. And, like, YouTube is going to be the new, you know, it is the new reality TV, right? But the next thing's going to be like YouTube rehab.

Your favorite YouTube stars are on crack. Yeah, no surprise there. Yeah. Yeah. Young and reckless, though, as a brand is everywhere. Because, of course, when I first heard of it probably on, I don't know, fantasy factory when I was in law school or something like that, like up late at night, can't sleep, got finals, watching something like that.

Now it's everywhere. surreal to walk through the mall and see your stuff hanging on a rack? Yeah, it is. And I think that once again, this is not some, like, cool, cliche comment. Like, it's still, when I go to especially like another state and see someone wearing it or, you know, something pops up. Like, it just popped up this morning, Carucci, that, like, celebrity chick, was wearing all young and reckless active wear to the gym and posting about it. And, like, that's still cool to me. Sure. Because it's still, And like tabloids and like I personally don't ever want to be in tabloids, but I want my clothing to be when I see it, I get so excited.

And that feeling, I mean, sure, you get a little numb to like the little stuff just being honest. But like, I think the feeling of someone wearing your stuff that you are so removed from so far away is like it's one of the best feelings ever, you know. Yeah. It's like somebody putting your art up and you see it in their house when you walk in. Yeah. Or like someone, I'm sure for you, like someone coming up to you.

Like someone coming up to you and saying, I loved this moment from this podcast that really changed my life. Yeah. That's the best feeling ever. It's like someone who has no obligation to do so is spending their time or money to support this thing you created in your brain. Like, that's the best feeling ever. Yeah, we got an email a couple weeks ago from this guy who's like, I listen to your show every day. I have an eight hour walk or sorry, eight mile walk. I can't remember what it is.

It's eight something. It's about the same thing. I think it's like eight, I think it was eight hours. It's like four hours each week. to work, he is to walk there. He lives in India. Wow. And I was like, wow, that's a lot of my voice in your head every single day. But he's like, yeah, it's a long as walk. And in India? It's like, what the hell, man? It's crazy.

It's the best feeling ever. And it's not like a friend of a friend or like, hey, like, you know, so. Your mom told me about your clothes, so I bought a T-shirt at Mace. Yeah. Exactly. Like, don't get me wrong. That's great. But it's like somebody who has no obligation. They chose to give you that time or money. It's cool. Yeah. But it was the plan all along for you, right? Like, this wasn't a surprise that this worked out. It was the plan. Yeah. And that's why, you know, everyone asked me, like, do you think it would ever think it would get this big? The answer to that is yes, because when you're planning it, you're planning how to make the next biggest clothing line in the world, right? Like,

that's what you're game planning for. And then at the same time, when it actually starts to work and connect, and like I said, it gets a life of its own and these weird things start happening. It's just cool. It's so cool. So, yes, I plan for it. But at the same time, it's amazing. Could have also not worked out. Yeah. I mean, there's a true. really in different ways it couldn't work. Right. The whole place is, and you can tell this is a clothing company in the office where we're in, if you're listening only, because there's clothing everywhere.

Everywhere. And it's something about that. I don't know what it is, but, you know, when you go in, like, an art studio, there's paint everywhere, there's canvas everywhere, there's metal everywhere. When somebody's making something, there's wires everywhere, there's wood everywhere, there's metal everywhere. But when you go to, like, somebody who's not really doing much, their office is clean. They've got, like, a couple shirts and a frame.

They're like, that's our product right there. They got some bobbleheads on a shelf. This place you can tell sells a lot of clothes because you're like, it's all but tripping over boxes full of new stuff. And I'm going to be honest, it drives me nuts. I'm glad you put it that way because it made me feel a little bit better about the mess. But like I have it on my to do list, like to completely revamp the office, you know, paint and put up new logos and whatever. And I keep asking everyone, like, isn't there just a side room somewhere where we can put all of these things? And like, there just isn't, you know?

They're like, sure, have someone else do it. Yeah, it sucks, man. I just want, I want the cool, pristine office, right? I don't know. But I don't know, man. There's something about, like, it's that energy of being in a place that's doing the work. It's like a factory where the machines are running. You're right.

Versus where it's quiet. You're right. Yeah, there's a lot of clothing being made in here. I can promise you that. Yeah, you could tell. Maybe not much else. Yeah. Yeah.

You do draw the line well between being a celebrity that sells products and an entrepreneur, though. And that was one thing I wanted to highlight, because there are a lot of reality people or celebrities in general that sell products, but you decided to actively ditch that and become the business owner. And I think that's important, especially for a lot of these young guys, man, who are watching all of these YouTubers and they're like, yeah, I'm getting out there, I'm working, doing all this, I'm building up my Instagram. And it's like, build up your product.

Do the thing that you actually need to sell first, not just tell people about how you do it. Yeah, it's true. And I, like, I bailed on being a celebrity. You know, because there is no, like I said, there was, I have never considered myself a celebrity. Calling myself a celebrity sounds insane, right? And I've never considered myself that way. I've never done anything to try to grow that path in my life. It just was never cool to me.

And, you know, the thing that's cool to me is this. I think YouTubers and influencers are great. I think it's great what they're doing. I think that the whole thing's awesome. But I get to pay lots of influencers to wear my. product. Not just be that one influencer hoping for the next little check to get by. And I think that it's easy, the same way it was with reality stars and celebrities for me growing up, it's easy for kids nowadays to look at YouTubers and Instagram people and say, oh, but they're famous. They have

so many followers. They get so many likes. People love them. They must be rich. And like you don't realize that a lot of these guys are struggling to get by and to get their next photo next to a Ferrari to make it look like they're rich. And it's just not as good of a life as it really seems. It is smoke and mirrors, man. It is. But I get the allure right, because it is hard to remember that the person who rented a house, rented a car, and is doing a seminar and how to teach you to do the same thing.

Yeah. It's like, please, I hope these guys come to the seminar because otherwise I'm going to have to move back into my mom's basement. And that's not an exaggeration. There are a lot of people I know that literally they live with five other dudes, filming YouTube videos every day, editing all day. They put it out there and they're like, I need 100,000 views this week

or I'm not going to be able to pay rent. Like, that's a real thing. It's so true. And like I just, that life never was attractive to me. And before I even knew the reality, the reality of it. I was going to say,

you saw that, yeah, the reality of it. I just think, like, the idea of your main focus being yourself and like how well known can I get didn't seem like a cool thing to me. Like,

I wanted to have a, business. I wanted to have something legit. I wanted a product. I wanted something that I could be proud of that I made that could then take on a life of its own and be something. Not like, okay, I'm going to have to date a celebrity because I need to get my followers up. I don't want that to be my business plan for the week. Yeah, that's funny. I never even thought about that. Yeah, that must be what goes through people's minds. Like, oh, we need you two to date. Like, their publicist talk over lunch and they're like, you should date Britney Spears. It'll be over in a month. Yeah. You never have to actually hang out. Just get a photo.

I mean, that happens all day long. They'll plan, like, to just go get photographed at a dinner together because, like, you know, there's a movie coming out or whatever. Oh, that makes sense. You know, it's crazy. Like, is there a romance between these two co-stars? And they're like, ah, let's let people think that until the box office closes. That's planned all day long. And what you're seeing now is, like, these little influencers are, like, so smart that they're doing similar things.

You know, there's like relationship drama. Yeah. Who's dating who? And, like, yeah. Oh, my God. Let's go live and taunt everyone. Like, it's really interesting. And I think a lot of people that listen to these types of shows are looking for business tips.

but they're kind of secretly hoping to apply them in that realm. And I think it's a fair warning for people to give them a reality check when it comes to this. Because it is not easy. It's not glamorous. And once you get there, you're like, oh, crap, I didn't build anything. Yes. And I want to be clear, too, to all the listeners, because there probably are a lot of people like that. It's like, I do think that in 2018, you absolutely have to have a connection with your customer.

Right. And you should be documenting and showing building your business and the struggle. that it takes and what you learned today and what you didn't you know what you failed at today and I do think that when you finally come to launch a product having a built-in audience that really believes in you and what you're doing is more important than ever but it's just like don't front you can't build this audience as a front because it's going to come out the truth is going to come out it's going to screw you over you're going to end up having to decide between well do I spend all my time being an influencer or being an entrepreneur and you're never going to win either of

those. Yeah. So, you know, it's like there is a fine line. I do think you should document and you should have a good, you know, YouTube page or Instagram page or a really cool podcast or whatever it is, but just not famous for the sake of famous. Sure. You know, that's where it's a dead end.

I heard you text your mom every morning. I do. I sure do. Why do you do that? I do that because, so I went through like, well, it's kind of an ongoing thing, but starting about two years ago, I really started focusing a lot on like myself and like how to do better. I felt like, it's a really long story that I'm making short, but like I felt like I kind of crashed. Like, I felt like I had used up all the tools, personal tools that I had to like stay sane in this crazy world, trying to do what I'm doing.

And I just felt depleted and over everything and depressed and whatever. And so I really kind of felt like I started from scratch and built up routines and read a bunch of books on, you know, optimization and really habit formation. and all these different things. And one of the biggest things that I did was created a daily routine that I do every day no matter what. And the goal of that routine is so that if I get my butt kicked at work or I get the worst news ever or whatever, still all of these things were accomplished and still I don't have that bad of a day. I don't feel like that much of a loser. And it allows me the next day to get up with a little bit more energy and keep going because you at least accomplish something.

So one of those things on the list was texting my mom. And that came from like, you know, I don't know. I just don't talk to my mom enough. Yeah, sure. I have a great relationship. Exactly. I have a great relationship with her. Love her to death.

But I would talk to her once every four, five, six days. And I know that that's really hard on her, right? And she would never say anything. She just lets me do whatever. So I just realized, hey, why not, you know, put that on my to-do list the same as like drink enough water? Just make sure you text your mom. Yeah. Like it's so easy to do, but we need those reminders.

So now every morning when I wake up, it's the first thing I do is just say, hey, I love you, hope you have a great day, what's going on, anything out of the ordinary. And usually it's a two-second exchange and we move on. But it's just created. Like it's genuinely created a stronger relationship with my mom, and I feel better about it. I love the idea. I feel like if I texted my mom every day, she'd find 158 texts once and go, oh, just saw this. Thanks, honey.

Yeah. Like, who would you? I got to teach my mom my mom at it. text first. 100%. But at least you, I don't know, to me, there was like this, I felt better that I had done it. Like, it was off my plate. Right.

So it doesn't even matter if she replies or not. No, because, like, you did. You know, like one of my things was I just want to be a good son. So by texting my mom every day, it's selfish. I feel like a good son. And so whether she decides to respond to me or doesn't respond for a week, I can sleep well knowing that I'm a good son. Got it. Yeah.

Yeah. Check that. Check that. Check the box. Yeah. Yeah. Check. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Chris Fath.

We'll be right back back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. And don't forget, we have worksheets for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. And if you'd like to leave us a review or rating in your favorite podcast player of choice, head on over to Jordan Harbinger.com slash subscribe to get some deets on how to do that. And now for the conclusion of our interview with Chris Faff.

All right, so I wanted to dive in a little bit on some practical advice as well because there's a lot of younger people who want to get their foot in the door of like any industry at all. And you had some opportunity because Rob's Rob Dirdex assistant quit and you are busy being the, I don't know, the butt of the joke on the show. Sure. And then he offered you this job. But that was opposite.

Like he offered me the job. Then the show came. Oh, I didn't realize. The butt of the joke. Oh, that was after that. So you got demoted and then demoted. Demoted. Oh, that's picked up and dropped.

Yes, because what's funny is I was just, so here's what happened. Think about it this way. I'm his assistant genuinely or legitimately like sweeping his floors and doing his laundry. Now all of a sudden a TV show gets picked up, which I wasn't even supposed to be a part of. And naturally because they're trying to film and I'm trying to mop the floors, it becomes, Hey, come here, a little dummy, you know? So it was back when it was real reality TV and they weren't scripting everything. Yeah.

And so for me, it was. Like I would come into a scene, get made fun of, it sounds so terrible. But get made fun of, joke around ha ha ha, ha, and then like, okay, go back down and do the laundry. And like, I legitimately did. Like, I would go back downstairs, do more laundry. Hey, come up here. We need you. Do a thing.

Go back. You know, that was my life for a little bit. So the misery on your face and the shots is real. It was authentic. Yeah. That's so sad. That was real. I think a lot of young people are like allergic.

to doing the real work. They don't want to, they want to be a 19 year old Instagram influencer like we just mentioned, but nobody wants to throw the towels in the laundry. Nobody wants to mop up the coffee that somebody threw it, somebody else on the set.

Or in your case, rub, was it icy hot on big blacks, like bare ass? Yep, absolutely. Nobody wants to do that. No, they don't. I do. Yeah, maybe back then.

Yeah, I don't mind. I think that's almost like the number one thing that sends people on the wrong path, right? Is like, You cannot take yourself too serious ever. I still do the equivalent of rubbing icy hot on Big Black's butt today with my life now. I was wondering about that. Yes.

And everyone that I have ever met that is, at least like I want to be, right, entrepreneurs or CEOs or whatever, do that. You can't ever take yourself too serious. You can never be too cool to take the trash out. You can never be too cool to stay there last. You just can't. The moment you do, it's over. The only people who can do that are celebrities. And if you want to sit and bet your whole life on becoming a celebrity, you might as well play the lottery.

Yeah. It's just not a good, there's no path to that, right? There's no, like, I don't know. It's just not a good path. And so I think for any young person out there who's really trying to figure it out, you really have to drop all ego and taking yourself too serious and all those things and just get in there, do what needs to be done and learn. So important. It seems like you had your eyes open to different opportunities as they arose, right? Because it wasn't just like, oh, I'm on this TV show.

I should either get another TV show, even if the celebrity thing didn't appeal to you. You could have easily have done, I mean, you could have just worked at MTV. Or there's a million paths that you could have theoretically followed. Yeah. And I wonder what you think about the advice. You and I were kind of riffing on like bad entrepreneur, bad life advice before we started filming. Oh, yeah. But like a lot of people go, like, follow your dreams.

after it, you can do whatever you want. Yeah. It seems like people get really focused on the dream or their vision, and then all these opportunities whizzed by their head, and they wake up and their vision doesn't work out, and they miss every train that was thrown at them. It's so true. And I think, like, I hate the, like, dream stuff. The quotes where you're standing on a beach and there's a quote superimposed on you,

the Instagram quote. We can all dream. You know, like, I don't, because what I think that it encourages. is, is you to come up with this big grand thing of what you're going to be one day with no plan of how to get there or what that really means. And then you're stuck. Like, you don't know what to do tomorrow. And you just wonder why slowly your dream is getting away from you and you're having to get a job.

And now your spirit is crushed. And now you have to do this thing. And now life starts hitting you really hard. And you're like, where the hell is my dream going? Yeah. You know, I think that, like, I'm really big on setting goals. and whether that be like getting super clear on what you really want, like financially, like be honest, you know, like be realistic.

What do you need financially to truly make yourself happy? Don't just say rich with five Ferraris. That's not a goal, right? And then breaking down, how do you go about that? What are opportunities available to you now to get you one step closer to that? And I've noticed in life that every time, like, you may not know the whole plan, you may not know how to get all the way up the mountain, but you know what you're what the next step is. You always know what the next step is. And when you take that next step,

five more things open up. And then you take that next step and then there's five more. And it's almost like this path that reveals itself as you grow. And I just think it's so much, so important to think about it that way and to focus on taking the next step and not like looking up at this Mount Everest and, you know. Like, yeah, when do I get to the time? Yeah, like one day I'm going to be Beyonce. I think, I think that's really useful because there's no way you could have designed this path, which is why, which is what prompted that question. You moved to L.A. from Akron, get on MTV. You didn't know that was going to happen.

You didn't know that that was going to evolve into the clothing line, but you had your eyes open for that opportunity. You didn't know that you were going to be able to jump into a podcast and someone was going to start Instagram and that it was going to take off with the MTV generation of which you were then front and center on the new show, Fantasy Factory and everything else. And then your brand was going to be a hit. Like you can't, you can't plan that. No.

But that's a lot of what's the next steps. Yeah. You know, that's where that came. from one foot in front of the other. Yeah, and it came from getting your ass kick multiple times and thinking it's all over and thinking this sucks and there's no point in any of this. And then it's always what is the next step? And it just leads you into this thing.

But if I told you I was sitting in Ohio looking at cows dreaming up this exact life, I'd be lying to nowhere close. How is making it, and I put that in air quotes for those of you that cannot see me, how is making it change from when we were younger to now? Because you remember back then, I mean, MTV, I don't know how that worked, but some agent or production company was like, hey, how about a show about this? And then that evolved and that gatekeeper got handled. And then MTV went through their whole testing process and that gatekeeper got handled. Then they got it on the network and the TV providers.

And that gatekeeper got handled them dot, dot, dot, profit, right? But that's not how it works anymore. It's not. You don't have to hit HBO to have a comedy show. Yeah, which is interesting because I think that like the good news. So I think you're 100% right. And I think in almost every field, even if you're selling product, there's no more gatekeepers. You know, and if you're trying to be a celebrity, there's no more gatekeepers, comedian, whatever it is.

There's no more gatekeepers almost across the board. The good news is there's no one like not giving you your shot, you know, and that's great. And, you know, it used to be, I'm sure, heartbreaking for people who had this great show idea and you're pitching to HBO and pitching all this place that keeps getting shut down. That sucks. And it's the gatekeepers are to blame. The bad news is there's nobody to blame. It's on... Right, yeah.

Now if you fail, it's like, well, you didn't do everything, all these things right. Like you can't, like for me, when I started young and reckless, the big thing I remember day one, we had to get Paxon. Pacific Sunwark? Pacific Sunware, the retailer. Because they were perfect for us and they would be the key to this brand exploding. And they were. But we have to go meet with the buyers.

We have to convince them. We have to show them everything we're going to do. And if they buy this and just let us in the door for a hundred-door test, we're off to the races. And that's what happened. Now, that doesn't exist. Now you start a website, you build it up, you market it on your social media, you do all that stuff, and you start to move units yourself.

And then if you can prove that you can really move a lot of units, maybe a retailer will come in and help out. But it's a value ad. It's not the business. It's not the business anymore. It is completely gone. It's why the trade shows are dead. It's why the trade shows used to be the craziest thing in apparel.

And that's all the retailers coming to meet with all the brands. and they're making orders and dreams are coming true and dreams are getting shattered, they're gone. They're literally, it's gone. Sounds too intense for me, actually. Exactly. It was insane. I mean, back in the day, even before my time, it was crazy.

But the point is, those are gone. If you go walk around a trade show now, it is absolutely crickets. Because the thing that's working are things like ComplexCon, where consumers can directly come by from the brands, right? What is that? What is ComplexCon? So the trade shows were all the retailers come set up a booth and show all their new collections and buyers from around the country or the world come look and decide if they want to

buy for their stores or not. What ComplexCon did for this new age is they set it up where the retailers still come put up booths and have new product and do exclusive releases, but it's consumers that are coming in and they can buy directly from all these brands. So it's just this really cool like direct to consumer festival where they have performances and they have all this stuff. And that's the new model. The retailers coming to buy for.

Spring 19 is just gone, you know. Yeah, that's interesting. So to answer, sorry, to kind of button to answer your question is like, it's all on you now. And it's up to you to figure out what's your thing, what's your product, what's your gimmick, what's your skit, what's your whatever, how are you going to push it? How are you going to constantly be DMing people trying to get people to support you? How are you going to, like, it's really on you. No, there are no gatekeepers to blame, but there's no gatekeepers that's going to come

save your life either and blow this thing out of the wall. water. So yeah, that that is double-sided, right? Because if you were, if you got selected, you got anointed by this gatekeeper, you were like, yes, I've made it, we're there, it's going to be hard to knock us off now, off the top of the mountain. But now you have to get to the top of the mountain yourself, and theoretically, you could fall at any time. But you have, everyone has a democratized chance to get there. You don't have to even be out in L.A. It does help to be around it, but you don't have to be in a big city at all. You could build up a following if you have a really great product and if you know what you're doing.

Yeah, we just talked about that the other day actually on one of my podcasts where like one of the, one business that is absolutely killing it right now is this business called Stock X. And they, it's an online, it's an app and obviously a site and they sell, they are the middleman for sneaker reselling. Okay. So if you buy like some super exclusive, expensive pair of shoes from a third party reseller, they, middleman it. So they put it on their site. The reseller ships it to them. They make sure that it's new, it's real, it's all that stuff, and then they send it to the buyer, right? The point of all that is, Chinese shoes, yeah. Exactly. The point of all that is they're in Detroit. They're based out of Detroit. Oh, okay. And they're selling all the coolest stuff and they're in the game and they're in

streetwear and pop culture and they are murdering it. They're in Detroit because you're able to do that now. You know, because of the internet, because of social media, because of all that stuff, you can, so a guy in Detroit can go around, raise money, figure it out, build this awesome platform, have now the biggest thing in streetware. And if you need a warehouse in Detroit, it is cheap. Cheap. Yeah. We got plenty of room back home in Detroit, man.

So yeah, that's the interesting. It's happening across all platforms, you know. You also mentioned, and I can't remember where I got this, it must have been one of your other episodes, but the days of doing one big thing and making it are gone. It's like building blocks now, brick by brick. Yeah. And I think the example you gave was it's not about, and we. were talking about this before we started filming. It's not about having one player or one celebrity

on your show. You have to do like a thousand of those and they have to consistently be good. And then people start to realize, oh, this person does quality media. This person has quality clothing. They have quality shoes. You can't just, the breakout hit is rare. Yep. It's so true. I think it used to be a lot more like the same as the gatekeeper thing. It used to be you could kind of get this one big hit thing, and it would carry you for a long time. And now that media and content and everything, everything in the world is so disposable, it's more about like, hey, I follow Jordan because I like Jordan. I don't really care who he's going to have on his podcast. I trust that it's going to be good because I like you, right? It's the reason why people love like Joe Rogan so much,

right? He can have Elon Musk or some UFC fighter, and people are going to listen to both. Right. Yeah, I probably get almost the same number of plays. And so that's the thing is like, what are, what can you do consistently almost every day that has some substance to it and some depth to it? And you're not relying on a celebrity or a gatekeeper or being anointed or any of these things that are just going to skyrocket you. It's what can you do consistently and slowly build a following? You know, it's even in clothing.

Like one of the biggest things is you used to go, we'd go right now and shoot our, spring 2019 campaign and then we'd be done with photos for three months and then you'd go shoot summer right yeah now we need a new photo shoot every day you know really yeah absolutely and we shoot every day something so every day there's a photographer here people are coming by the office we're going downstairs we're getting resourceful trying to find some good scenery behind the building something to constantly have stuff on our story on our feed on our whatever is that is that what this guy oh the guy who's here before? Yeah. Man.

He does video and that and podcast. He's a jack of all trade. That dude's busy. Yeah. Very. He needs a raise. You're welcome. He can hear you.

He's right out there. Yeah, I know he can. He's got the black magic box out there and he's like, yes, Jordan's awesome. Thank you. Go, Jordan. Yeah, tell him again. I don't think you heard you. Yeah.

Yeah. So you mentioned the media landscapes fragmenting. There's no more gaykeepers. In that same spirit, it seems like the biggest. So what's the biggest competition for young and reckless? It's not from Nike then. It's not from some streetware brand. from some random YouTuber coming out with like their own merch in your backyard.

Yeah, I'll tell you what it is. It used to be our direct competitors in streetwear, right? It was really easy to tell who they were. Yeah. Now it's a combination of H&M, Top Shop, Forever 21, Logan Paul's merch. Yeah. The new Travis Scott merch, the new, you know, Amazon. Sure.

You know, it's like there, now it's from all sides, right? because you can get good inexpensive jeans and blank t-shirts and stuff like that from H&M. You want the, you know, maybe you want the merch shirt from the YouTuber or from an artist or whatever. And it's just super kind of fragmented and all over the place. And like I said, I mean, once again, the good news is it allows you to kind of operate in your own world and not really care about direct competition and just say, okay, let's just build our people and our audience. The bad thing is you don't, you're not even sure where the enemy's coming from. Yeah, you know what I mean?

You're looking at, you don't have to look at three or four brands anymore. Yeah. It's not like, remember when we were kids, it was like Airwalk, Vision Streetwear. Yeah, like Stozy. Yeah, it was so clear. And it was like, oh, we got Macy's. Oh, they don't have it. Oh, we got Dillards.

They don't have it. Like, it was that. Now it's like, I don't know. You could be buying some Lili Pons merch or something. I don't know. Like they made 500 copies of this shirt. And then when he gets those done, he's going to do 500 more. And you're like, man, you're selling this similar design for probably not cheaper, but

you got this dedicated audience that wants to buy yours because now you've become like the man. Right? Like you're like the corporate guy now. Absolutely. It's really funny how that works. That is funny. Because it is. Like now when we talk to these like influencers and stuff and like talk about doing

collaborations, they look at us as like doing a deal with a big corporation. Let me call the legal department. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, man, there's really, I mean, there's like 30 people here, but clothes everywhere. But yeah, they're literally just, you can't get around. How do you protect your brand when the barrier to entry is zero? Like, the way I protect the Jordan Harbinger shows, I try to create better content for a smarter audience and do it over and over and over. It takes a lot more work.

That's got to be a similar strategy. Yeah, it is. I mean, it's the same thing in the podcast as it is with the clothing. And it's like, you just have to be honest. You used to be able to kind of lie. and use smoke and mirrors, and that was called good marketing. You know, like, let's make it look like. You know, but now you have to, honestly, like, we try to make the best clothing for the most

affordable price that we can possibly bear, connect with the audience, tell them why we're doing it. Like, we just started a vlog that's just what goes on in the office every day. I see your one ahead of D on the vlog off. There you go. And I won. That's over. Oh, it's open. Yeah.

And now I get to design a billboard of D, an embarrassing bill. board and put it up on, on, Melrose and Fairfax. So is like, is that going to be kind of, he's got to pass that every day on the way to the office? It's going to be super embarrassing. But that's how we, like, encourage each other to, like, try to make some content. So, but, like, we just started that. We're just constantly trying to do things to say, well, you follow us for a reason.

You, you know, whether it's because you like my podcast and you know that I do the brand, or maybe you like the office vlog, or maybe you like the way our denim, whatever, there's a, few different ways to kind of come in, but everyone you have to be able to explain why it is actually good. You can't just lie better anymore. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, because people expect that spontaneous reality stuff now and it's like, you can't really fake it. It doesn't, it's too obvious because everybody else is doing real stuff. You can't pull the wool over. There's too many people doing similar stuff. You can't. And it's like, we can't like our genes. We started making jeans like a year or so ago. They were a massive success. And the problem,

is we do everything we can to make them as affordable as humanly possible without them like being pieces of crap right falling off yeah the thing is you can I'll never be able to hit the same price as h and m I just won't I don't have factories and all the stuff they have yeah owning your own factory in china exactly I just can't compete with that so there has to be something that we do that is better than them and the reason why you're going to pay 10 bucks more you know and but you just have to have those things on everything you do What's this thing about you had a run in with the hell's angels? What's going on here?

Oh, man. I get scared even when you bring it up. What happened was this was probably like five years ago. This is when I was filming Fantasy Factory. The way that it would work is before every season, we would advance print samples for me of the shirts that were going to be in stores while we were filmed when the show aired. So that you can get the stuff that's in the store now on TV kind of at the same. Exactly. So we'd just print it early. You know, it's like six months or something. We'd print just three of each for me early.

They would be sitting in my office during the whole time of filming and I would only pull from that box and wear that on the show. So I just pull the box and wearing the shirts throughout the whole filming of the show, not thinking anything of it. And there happens to be this one shirt that looks like, I don't know, like a Guns and Roses knock off. Sure. Guns and Roses knock off. All right. Yeah, why not, right? Yeah. So I'm wearing it all over the show.

I love it. Cool logo. Yeah. I wear it all over the show. And sure enough, it ends up that it was not a guns and roses knockoff. It was the exact Hell's Angels logo. But instead of saying Hell's Angels, it just said reckless youth, I think. And so here I am.

Literally reckless that move, not checking your design. Yeah, like just asking to just be murdered. So I wore all of the show. I think it first came to me when like some of the parts. press photos started coming out and people started reaching out saying, hey, not a good idea, what are you doing? What I didn't realize is, and, and congrats to them, the Hells Angels are the most diligent trademark protectors of any brand I have ever known. And if you do a quick search and look up trademark infringement, Hells Angels, they go after everyone and they win and they

attack instantly, right? And I definitely saw that. And they definitely made it very known that, that we knocked off their shirt and that's unacceptable. And there was a couple close, you know, issues where... Close balls. Yeah. There was one time coming out of a club where a guy grabbed me and said, hey, you know, what's up with the shirt and blah, blah, blah. And it just so happened to be so crowded and there was people around me or whatever.

And I was like, man, I am so sorry. I had no idea. But, I mean, I really went through, I called a couple guys and I did everything I could to say, hey, man, like, I honestly didn't mean to disrespect you guys. But it was one of the scary. time frames of running a clothing brain. Like not only am I getting sued for trademark infringement, I'm going to get my teeth kicked in or something for...

Multiple times. There were people like, one time my friend called and said like, hey, did you get your ass kicked yet? And I was like, what? Because I'm not coming over until that's over. Yeah, and he's like, no, because I talked to a couple of people like in San Francisco or whatever, and they said that they were coming to be... Whatever.

And I was like, dude. When did they leave? Yeah. How much time I have right now? Yeah, it was so weird. But, yeah, thank God. Thank you, everyone. that gave me a pass on that, I got out safely.

Yeah, wow. So I take it that shirt did not get released. That shirt was so buried. And I had to go through it. Here's what I actually had to do. So luckily, the shirt never came out because I had it early. Sure. The bad news is the skinny white guys wearing it all over TV, right?

Yeah. So I had to pay MTV extra to blur it on every episode. Oh. So you'll see. There's like a blur fee? Yeah. Because they're like, we can blur it, but it's not our problem. Oh, true.

You know, like what did we do? We got to go back in and edit this. It's like $1,000 an hour or something. Yeah, and I think they checked with their legal or whatever, and it wasn't a liability for them. So it was just all on us. So I was like, well, we'll pay it. So I paid to have it blurred on every.

It was, I am so stupid. I would print my favorite graphics and put them on the wall in my office. And it was right behind my desk. It was a print of that graphic. So the whole season, they had to blur the print behind my. Every single. Oh, man. But yeah, it was a nightmare.

It was definitely, listen, guys, if anyone's out there starting a brand or anything, I understand that knocking people off is like part of the game, just don't ever choose the hell's angels. Yeah, yeah. Knock off the, uh, somebody else. Anyone else. Somebody less dangerous. Literally anyone else. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because you think like getting sued, oh, man, that's terrible. It's like, that's, I would love if all I got was sued for this graphic. I mean, I was right after I moved out of Hollywood Tower where we were neighbors. And it was the first time I had gotten a house. and I was so excited, but it was right in that time frame. And every night I couldn't fall asleep

because I just pictured the sound of motorcycles coming down the street at 2 in the morning. But you hear every five minutes in Los Angeles too. Oh my gosh. So yeah, that was a lesson learned, the hard way. Dude, thank you very much. Yeah. Super educational and enlightening, man.

Thank you, man. This was great. Great big thank you to drama. This was really fun stopping by Young and Reckless. It's got a cool team there. They convinced me to upgrade my video game or my game when it comes to videos so you can expect that we got some cool stuff in the pipeline we're going to do more stuff for youtube not too much more at the core i'm really you know doing the

radio talk show podcast thing because it's just it's hard to put out the volume of quality that we do if we're trying to worry about lighting and stuff but really really cool interview with him great to see people running a business like that it was just such a fun environment to be in and those guys are such hustlers over at young and reckless he's got his own show short story long which I was on recently. We'll link to that in the show notes. If you want to learn how I manage to book these great guests, get cool opportunities like visiting young and reckless in L.A., hanging out with drama, getting in the mix with entrepreneurs. Well, I use systems and tiny habits to maintain and create those relationships. And I'm teaching you those systems for free over at advanced

human dynamics.com slash level one. The level one course, it's going to teach you how to dig that well before you get thirsty. It's going to teach you out to build those relationships before you need them because when you need them, then it's too late. It's only a few minutes per day, and you can find it all at AdvancedHumanDynamics.com slash level one. And speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from drama. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. This show is produced in association with podcast one, and this episode was co-produced by Jason Double Drama to Philippo and Jen Harbinger. Show notes are by Robert Fogarty, worksheets by Caleb Bacon. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. The fee for the show is you share.

It with friends when you find something useful, which is hopefully in every single episode. So share the show with those you love and even those you don't. So much more great stuff in the pipeline for this year. I'm excited to bring it to you. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time.

If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practice. practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got

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