The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1350: Survived the Service, But Mom Makes Him Nervous | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

You survived a brutal childhood and built a beautiful life, but your toxic mom won't stop the guilt trips. Cut her off for good? It's Feedback Friday!And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in!Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1350On This Week's Feedback Friday:Your 24-year-old stepson, degree in hand, depression in tow, just quit his retail job with nothing lined up, and you're picturing a future of closed doors and video-game screaming. You want his dad to crack the whip, but you're scared to say a word yourself. So how do you light a fire you can't build?Your father-in-law's IRA was supposed to split three ways, until your husband mysteriously vanished from the paperwork, leaving his two sisters holding his third. They're dangling half as a tax-free "gift." Is this an honest estate-planning slip or something with sharper edges — and do you lawyer up?You took the management job everyone swore you were built for. A year in, the title fits like a hot, itchy costume you can't wait to shed. The petty stuff — loud ringtones, an unemptied trash can — wrecks you more than the big problems. Now you're stepping back into less pay and dread. Are you doomed?Recommendation of the Week: In Waves and War — a Netflix documentary trailing former Navy SEALs — guys allergic to anything touchy-feely — as severe PTSD and brain injuries push them toward psychedelic-assisted therapy in vetted clinics. Watching these hardened men crack open is harder to look away from than you'd expect.You beat odds most people never face: a brutal childhood, and a mother whose love always came tangled with chaos and addiction. After years of painstakingly rebuilding things with her, her latest spiral forced you to choose your own family and step away. Now you're in therapy, wondering if this makes you horrible.Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]!Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: Chime: Open an account in two minutes: chime.com/jhsFactor: 50% off first box: factormeals.com/jordan50off, code JORDAN50OFFIQBAR: 20% off: Text "Jordan" to 64,000Mint Mobile: Shop plans at mintmobile.com/jhsCastbox: Find, organize, and subscribe to the world's best podcasts: castbox.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the four-wheel drive crossover SUV, helping me tow this jackknifed car of your heaviest conundra up this perilous emotional mountain, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better-informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, astronauts, neuroscientists, mafia enforcers. This week, we had none of those. We had Valerie Friedland.

She's great, too. Author of Why We Talk Funny, The Real Story Behind Our Accents. Actually, I really love this conversation with her. She's awesome. As you can guess, we talked about why we have accents, what our accents say about us, what data they contain, about our social background, level of education, where we come from, all that. Really interesting conversation, so much so that I'm having her back on the show really soon.

We also did a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on medical tourism. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play, obnoxious soundbites, and generally meddle in your lives like a couple of chocolate bar wielding lydios. Gabe, you're not in Chile anymore. I'm back in L.A., back in my mom's guest room, as you can see, as the prophecy foretold. As the prophecy foretold. This background is very different from your last one. I'm seeing moody lighting.

There's a window with very tassily curtains. I'm seeing vintage bronze statuettes. I'm having flashbacks to our fateful night at Robbins 15 years ago. Seriously, shout out to Robin for letting her grown-ass sun crash with her every few months, like some kind of weird sitcom that they refuse to cancel. Yeah, well, honestly, shout out to Robin for so many things, like giving birth to you, for example. Oh, what an unexpectedly touching thing for you to say at the top of the show. Yeah, and also by the time this episode comes out,

she'll be recuperating from a little surgery she had to have. So shout out to Robin for handling all of that like a champ. It has not been fun for her. I really feel for her. I love you, Mom. Yeah. I'm glad you doing well. I'm actually sorry to hear that.

I hope you're doing well, Robin. So I have so many fun memories of your mom. I won't even get into that here. I think we talked a lot. We talked about some of those nights before as well. So get, that came out weird. I had many great nights with your mother. Gabe, your stories are going to be significantly more boring for the next month or so, eh?

Just sitting around in L.A. I think they might be. My stories might tend toward the domestic for a few weeks. Yeah, you're going to go from I almost died in a car accident in Chile to, oh, my mom blocked in my car in the garage this morning. Yeah, I got a parking ticket in Beverly Hills. You know, sometimes that is more stressful, depending on if you're trying to get to yoga on time. So I can find the drama anywhere, really. Welcome home, home. Not sure where that is. Honestly, it has been lovely to be here. I love traveling. And I also love coming back here.

I get to hang with my family. I get to see my new nephew, who is awesome, by the way. amazing kid. I get to go to hot eight, not have to worry about whether, you know, to take out additional insurance on a rental car, all of that. There are upsides to coming back. For sure, you always need that place to come back to and that hot yoga abroad, man, just doesn't hit the same, does it? When it's in a year. It's warm yoga at best. I mean, I'll take what I can get, but it is not the same. I wonder why they don't crank it up. Yeah, maybe because they use Celsius. I don't know. It could also be the fact that it's in a tent outside in a favela. That wasn't what happened in Brazil, but you're thinking of it.

the place in Portugal. I know what you're thinking of. That's right. I tried to get you to come to the tent yoga. That's right. And you're getting ready to go to China this week, right? I am going to China. We're going for a month. It should be interesting. My, yeah, my turn to tell you some stories from the road. It's weird because I don't, I didn't want to leave my house here, but I have, actually, there's, my parents will be living here in my home. So I look forward to coming home to a filthy house that smells like my parents. What do your parents smell like? I hate to say this. There's an older person's smell. Really? There just is. And it's not sort of anything like gross. It's just older folks, look, they sweat less, they move less. So they're like, oh, I'm just going to wash my clothes less.

And many of them. And I get that. And they keep really old clothes, a lot of older people, right? They're like, oh, I like this jacket from 25 years ago. And it's like, I get it. But sometimes that stuff smells a little bit, I don't know, dusty. It's also been moved. It's been kept in a box for a long time. Yeah, I don't know. There's just something. There's something like that that's a little, just a little dusty. Mothballs and soup? Yeah, a little bit, a little bit like mothballs and soup, a little bit of dust in there. I don't know.

I feel, again, I feel bad saying this. It's not a bad smell. It's just distinct. It's a different one from you and your little clan. That's right. I don't know. I probably smell like Windex. I got no room to tell.

I've been wanting to tell you for years that you do smell like a household cleaner, but whatever. Yeah. Are you excited about China? How are you feeling about it? Yeah, I'm excited. I, you know, for a while, I didn't think I could even go to China, so that's been nice to sort of be past that. For a while, I did some stuff with my visa, whereas, like, are you a journalist? You've covered China. Let's hear it. Oh, this isn't really that good. Okay, am I going to get arrested? No, all right, then fine. You know, the head to go through all that rigmarole.

But yeah, I'm excited about eating really good food. You know, what I'm going to do is do a little lifestyle arbitrage, right? I, getting a massage in the Bay Area, I don't know, it's a couple hundred bucks to get a good one. Getting a massage in China? It's like 20 bucks. So I'm going to get massages every day, and I'm going to get stretched by a trainer or a physical therapist type person almost every day if I can't. Because I'm stiff as a board. I'm not a mobile person. So I figure if I have somebody who can do that, you know, doing that here, it would be prohibitively expensive.

It would take a ton of time. I'd have to drive somewhere to do it. In China, I'm just going to handle all that. So I don't know. Why are you going to China? What are you excited about? I'm going to stretch every day. I'm going to stretch exactly and have someone walk on me for a discount.

excited to expand your Mandarin? You know, I am looking forward to expanding my Mandarin quite a bit. Every time I go to Taiwan, for example, it improves a ton in just a few days. So having a month in actual China where I can read stuff unlike Taiwan, it is going to be super helpful. I can't wait to hear how it is because we're going to record a couple shows while you're over there. So I'm definitely going to need some stories. I want to hear what the People's Republic of China is like now. I got to do something excited, get arrested, get kidnapped for a third time. I don't know. I'm rolling the dice over here. Go to high yoga in Unan? I don't know. We'll see. One thing before we kick off, I want to give a quick shout out to Cooper True, who turns two and two days, probably makes him one of our youngest listeners.

Also, probably listening against his will. Not that that's my problem. Anyway, if he's listening to Feedback Friday, sorry for corrupting you, Cooper, earmuffs, pal. Your aunt Michelle wanted to surprise you with a special birthday shoutout, and we hear your mom, Emily, is doing a lot these days, balancing her career, child care, life with a two-year-old, not easy, and Emily, this one's for you, too. We hope Cooper has the best birthday filled with cake, presents, laughter and one mercifully easy bedtime. Happy birthday, Cooper and Emily, thank you for being a dedicated listener.

Also, we've been hearing from some of you that there are no skeptical Sunday episodes on Amazon music. I don't know why. The episodes that are missing are between the one about test prep in late February and the one about electric vehicles in late March. And then a lot of you have said that there's no more

and when are we going to start that again? Well, I got a surprise for you. And every other app, there's a ton. So check out any other podcast app and you should see tons of Skeptical Sunday episodes outside of Amazon music. We have no idea why this is happening. It's apparently only the skeptical Sunday episodes that are not showing up in a lot of people's apps. We're looking into it.

Unsurprisingly, there's almost no support for that app. So if anyone's using Amazon music to listen, you are missing out on a bunch of episodes. Sorry about that. Hopefully we'll get that fixed soon, but I really have no idea. All righty. We've got some fun ones. We got the doozies. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Dear Jordan and Gabe, my 24-year-old stepson has a degree, and has been working in retail full time since he graduated two years ago. He is very reserved and artistic is a really good kid and doesn't drink or do anything else. But he is now quitting the job without finding another job. And I am very afraid that he's just going to become a lump that sits in his room and plays video games. He does suffer from depression and has self-esteem issues. As a stepmother, I don't want to say anything to him because I don't want him to hold it against me, but I think his father should be stern with him and tell him he needs to get a job in the field of his degree.

We paid for most of his degree, and I know I will be very upset if I hear him screaming at his video game when he could be working a 9 to 5. He'll get kicked off of our insurance at 26, but I don't want to wait that long to make a change. How would you handle this situation? Signed, looking for the right stance, to deliver a swift kick in the pants. Do I rant, do a whole song and dance, or take the chance? that my stepson might not glance at his finance and finally realize that this constant trance is creating a pretty concerning forecast.

Interesting problem. Something so many parents of young adults are probably dealing with. So first of all, I'm sorry to hear that your stepson struggles with depression, self-esteem, being motivated. I'm sorry for him, of course. I know it can be debilitating and terrifying, both to be depressed and to feel like you don't know what to do about it. And I'm sorry for you.

You got to watch them kind of flail, not know how to help him, if it's even your place to help him. It's just a tough spot to be in. So there are kind of two approaches here. One is more goal-oriented slash punitive, which is basically, look, man, you're 24, you're not working, you're not contributing. In less than two years, you're going to be knocked off our insurance and your expenses are going to go way up. You've got to get your ass in gear, turn off your stupid Xbox, and get a job. Also, you can't live here forever. Basically, light a fire under his ass.

maybe there's a role for that approach. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing for him to feel like he has some pressure to turn the ship around. The other approach is more process-oriented, a little bit more empowering, which is you sit down with your stepson, alone or with his dad, probably more than once. This is an ongoing conversation and helping him figure out what he wants out of life, where he can direct himself, why he's stuck, all of that. Obviously, that approach is going to take more time. it's going to require you guys to be patient and interested in what your son is going through.

It's also going to mean hitting pause on quote unquote solving the problem and first trying to appreciate the problem. Make it safe for him to tell you what he's struggling with. Give him some space to open up about that and just get clear on the issues before you guys start pitching. You know, apply for these kinds of jobs, save this amount of money, start scheduling your days, whatever. I do think that approach is ultimately going to get you a lot further with him because the fact is you can't teach someone motivation, especially at 24 years old. He's an adult now. True motivation, it really has to come from the person, from inside.

If your stepson is a lump playing video games in his room, there's a reason for that. And if you have any shot at helping him work through this, I think you need to help him get to the root cause rather than, you know, hey, go fill out 10 applications on Monster.com. You got to help him find something he truly cares about so you can find this passion and motivation that you're hoping to see from him. I totally agree. I also kind of worry about what outcome the first approach is going to generate, because if they just put the screws to him, he might go out and get a job out of desperation, maybe even one in the field of his degree, which would apparently satisfy his parents. But is that a job he's going to love? Is it going to address his

depression, his self-esteem issues? I don't think so. He'll just continue to struggle and he might even be more unhappy, who knows? So I'm with you. This second approach is definitely the way to go, but it's also going to require you to be willing to be a little lost and confused alongside your stepson. And I think to become friendlier with that uncertainty, even if it's creating some anxiety on your part, we don't know what's causing your stepson's depression. We talk about this on the show from time to time. There are so many causes of depression. Obviously, it can be chemical, it can be situational, it can be existential, it could be a question of, you know, mindset or belief, it could be a defense. It could even be a message to you guys to some degree.

Yeah, it could be several of these things at once. I have a hunch that part of his depression is a response to the anxiety. He probably feels about not having a direction. The video games, look, they're fun, but they can also be a way to distract and to numb yourself to some extent. And it might also be informed by a more general struggle with this very uncertainty. Right, which might only get reinforced by the urgency with which our friend here wants him to just, you know, figure it all out. There is no moving through big transitions or making sense of a crisis without being willing to be confused. confused, scared, lost, right? But if what you're hearing from your parents is, you better figure

this out because watching you flounder is distressing to us, how is he going to feel about floundering himself, you know? Yeah, that's a good point, but also just to be clear, the goal isn't to just make it okay for him to flounder forever. It's not about removing all stress from this guy's life. The goal is to be in a process with him. Totally. There's productive floundering, and then there's, you know, avoidant floundering. And productive floundering to me looks like, okay, I I don't know what I want to do for work. I'm not sure what I care about, but I'm reading a bunch of books. I'm reaching out to people in interesting fields.

I'm surrounding myself with good people. I'm getting in shape, whatever it is. I mean, I feel like I went through some version of this, and I got a job as an English teacher in another country. And then when I got home, I was like, all right, law school. It was you just get clarity. You get the break you need, but you don't feel like you're just sitting on your butt decaying.

You're moving forward in some ways. They're better and worse ways of being lost. And this guy could be a. student of his mini crisis, but right now it sounds like he's not. Exactly. Right now he's just playing hooky. Moving him into the student role, that's the aim. My sense, he's, he's probably freaking out and just disappearing into Grand Theft Auto, which, by the way, the new one comes out in November, so you better get a handle on this before that shit comes out because everybody going to be hooked on that, including me. You thought he was screaming in his room now,

just wait until he's pulling off a bank heist in 4K. It's going to be chaos. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to lie. I'm so stoked about GT. I've been a fan since The first one came out. I was like 14, still fire. Did some of the voices in Grand Theft Auto 3. No big deal. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. That's one of your stranger side jobs.

I completely forgot. That's hilarious. Are you just hyping the game because you get royalties? You know, I don't get royalties. It was a non-union gig. I did get paid out the nose for it at the time, though, because I was like 20-something years old. And I remember, I remember it was like 25, 26 years old,

and I ended up getting the gig to do some of the voices. And what it was was, they were like, oh, hey, we need some pedestrians. And I was like, oh, I can do pedestrians. So I roll in there. I didn't audition or anything. And they were like, we need all these different, I forget there's a term for this, but it's like, oof, ah, no, like stuff like that. Like really basic.

I think they call it effort sounds. Something like that, yeah. I don't know if that's exactly what it is, but you're right. It's not only, it wasn't only effort sounds. It was basically, if you drive a car in GTA and a sidewalk, you're going to have people jumping out of the way and some of them are going to be female screaming and some of them are going like, whoa, you know, that kind of thing. Oof, and then it's also like hot dog vendor, you need a nerd. They needed a radio bit, all these

different things. So I was doing one and they're like, can you do this one? Can you do this one? Can you do this one? Can you do this one? How about this one? And then I was doing all that and the director goes, hey, can we try something? How much energy do you have left? I'm like, I'm good. I don't have anything else for the day. He's like, try this. And he brought in another script. And it was way more involved. And it was this Russian gangster guy. I was doing the voice for the mini-games, gunfights, missions, and I was like, oh, this is different. He goes, yeah, you're good at the other stuff. And basically, this is our last, this is one of our last characters, our major characters. I feel like you could just do it.

So I did it. I love that you got to cosplay as John Malcovic and Rounders for GTA. It kind of was because I'm like, hey, I don't really speak Russian. Do you remember what the lines were? There was, I'll kill that son of a bitch for you. But it's like, is that Russian? Not really. No.

They didn't care. It's sort of generically. ambiguous, possibly Albanian, something, something Eastern gangster. And then it's like, you're cheating, you son of a... Like, his stuff like that. So vaguely Azerbaijan. A lot of screaming because I got shot. A lot of screaming at other people to shoot other people.

It's been a long time. How do you scream in Russian? I'd show you, but I have to call my agent and we'd have to negotiate the... Dude goes from, no, I don't get royalties. It was a non-union job to a freaking diva in like five seconds. So what's funny about that gig was after I did the Russian. one and after I did all those voices and we're on I don't even know whatever hour two or three of me yelling screaming and doing all these voices they're like we actually have one other minor

character is a drug dealer at a club and they're like can you do and this is I know this ain't woke but I don't care it's this is a long time ago can you do a gay voice this is 2008 all right I guess we're allowed to do that and I said yeah but I've been yelling and rushing this whole time and they're like oh even better it's a gay voice of a guy who's been yelling and they're like, he does work in a club, so maybe you yell a lot. And I was like, all right. So there's this character who's like a meth dealer in a club in Grand Theft Auto 3, a gay dude. And that's me after screaming for, I don't know, however many hours. So it's very smoky and ridiculous. Do you remember the lines for that guy? I don't. I wish I did. In fact,

I actually asked for all of my audio from Rockstar and they sent it to me, but it was back when everything was on CDs and the CD is just gone. It's not like, it's in the cloud. I don't know. If anybody's a grand theft auto player and they have grand theft auto three, those voices that, well, yeah, some of them are mine. Now I understand more why you still play this game and you have such an attachment to it. I've completely forgot that you voice some of the characters, but it's so funny to me that at 10 a.m. you're prepping interviews with CEOs and neuroscientists, and at like 4 p.m. you're mowing down pedestrians in a video game. Yes, pretty much. We do contain multitudes, Gabe. No, it's great. It's just one of the many

contradictions that I love about you. Well, thank you. I feel seen. And the thing about feeling seen is your stepson could start to develop a new lens on this chapter, which is my parents are willing to be in this uncertainty and confusion with me. And I have some time to figure it out if I'm taking proactive steps to finding my path. So when the time is right, I would sit down with your steps on and I would tell them, listen, I know you're a little down these days. I know you're confused. I know you didn't like your last job.

I can understand that. Maybe it's hard to feel confident about your next step right now. I'm here to help you however I can. If you want to talk things out, I'm here for that. If you want to kick around ideas for career paths that are interesting to you, I'd love that. If you just want to vent and be lost with me for a minute, I'm here for that too. But I really want to help you move through this chapter because I know you're capable of a lot, even if you don't feel that way these days.

And I know there's a really great life waiting for you where you're doing something you enjoy and you're making money and you're independent. And I know that's going to feel great. Something like that. And see how he responds. If he jumps right in, he's willing to open. up, great, you're off to the races if he's like, oh, thanks, I don't know, maybe. Then he unpauses his video game and a week goes by. Then maybe you need to be a little more pointed, like, okay, I know

this isn't fun to talk about, but it is really important. So let's grab lunch, you and me tomorrow, let's talk, or let's make time over dinner to talk with your dad about it. We're a team. Let's get into this together. But if you try that a few times and you get nowhere, then I would change gears. I would say, I can see you're not ready to talk about this, but I just want to point out, because I love you and I want to see you succeed, you not wanting to chat about this is making it hard to help you. And pretty soon, it's going to put you in a really scary spot once you have to cover expenses and find your own place and all that. Hint, right? That's where that first version of the conversation might come into play. Exactly. More as a tactic if he doesn't respond than is the

initial go-to strategy, in my opinion. By the way, you could even say to your step, son, I understand if you don't want to talk about this and I'll respect that, but can you maybe help me understand why you don't want to talk about it. Yeah, I like that because if he answers that question even a little, then they'll already be taking some steps to the root of the problem. And if he just flat out refuses to engage with you, I guess you and your husband are going to have to decide your position on all this. Like, is there an age at which you tell him, hey, sorry, you got to move out and be on your own? If he gets to 26 and he still doesn't have a solid job, are you going to pay for his health insurance? How long are you cool with him holing up in his room and playing video games

when he should, you know, be working? Every parent's different. Also, So he's not your biological son, so this might be his dad's call. So maybe another question in the mix here is, how can I help my husband find the best possible approach with his son? How can I help him empower his son while also setting clear expectations? I think that's actually a big part of her dilemma, Jordan, because she clearly has a stake in this kid's life. She cares about him.

He also lives in their house. So his whole vibe, his lifestyle, his choices, the screams that they hear through the wall, they all affect her. But you're right, this is not her child. biologically, I mean, so this might not be her responsibility in the same way. Also, we don't know when she married his dad, but she might not have been around during some crucial years in his development. Even if she was in the picture, she might not have

had a huge influence on him as his stepmom, I don't know. So it's possible there really isn't much she can do here, in which case, her question might also be about how to cope with watching somebody that she cares about struggle a little bit. So this whole situation might be forcing her to go, okay, there's only so much I can do, both because he's my stepson and because he's 24 years old, and potentially make peace with some qualities in her stepson and possibly also her husband that make her feel some type of way. So I hope that you can get through to your stepson. I really do. I think he's lucky to have you guys looking out for him. He's lucky to have parents who care. But at the end of the day, tough pill to swallow, I know, but you cannot light a fire

under someone else. You can stoke it, sure, you can throw some lighter fluid on it, great, but you can't build it from scratch. That's up to your stepson, as it should be. So I hope You hope you can support him in doing that for himself, sending you all a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what you will want sitting in your basement all summer? One of the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Chime.

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Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals and discount codes are on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Traveling Gabe. Oh, I love that. Hobo Gabe should be your new nickname.

Can we make that a thing, please? Vaggaybond. Ooh, Vagaybond. Also a winner. Now I'm picturing you on the side of the road with a stick. And what are those

like a, is there a knapsack hanging out? What is that thing? A little bundle at the end of the stick. A bindle. I think it's called a bendal. That's a good word.

That's a word you will never use, people. Prepping the show from a box car like some kind of Depression era agony aunt. I could do it. I could see it. Uncle Jordan and Hobo Gabe

has a nice ring to it. We need some fresh greetings on the show. Gordon and Jabe still makes me chuckle. Getting a little played, maybe. My father-in-law passed early this year. My husband got an email three weeks later from his sister,

the executor of the will, that said Morgan Stanley manages dad's rollover IRA. Since we are all listed as primary beneficiaries, Morgan Stanley will contact each of us individually to discuss how you would like to receive the disbursement, rollover, check, etc. Of your one-third of dad's rollover IRA monies, please find attached to this email a copy of Dad's Trust, Promissory Note, and Will. husband was contacted by the firm. We had a bunch of phone appointments with them where he listed me as a trusted contact and beneficiary on our portion and filled out all the documents. He was assured the firm was working on transferring the funds to each of the three siblings accounts. Then two months later he gets a call and a subsequent email from his sister saying that he was deleted from the IRA.

The email read, quote, dad's Morgan Stanley account is not part of his trust. Therefore, as trustee, have no control over the account or its distribution. Please find attached the Morgan Stanley documents that I refer to in our call regarding the subject. Included is the January 2026 monthly account statement, a beneficiary designation form with this date from 2002, and a second beneficiary designation form dated 2006. Okay, lots of procedure here. This lady keeps receipts.

We had the okay for Morgan Stanley, saw the documents that named the three siblings, had a plan, did the paperwork, and then this? His sister, who was taking care of their father, said that everything that came in the mail had all three children's names on it. But they found another note that only named the two sisters. This is confusing.

Why would that delete my husband? Maybe their dad, whose memory was failing, just forgot to name him in that one note. My husband asked his two sisters if they would make it right, withdraw the money and give him his share. They're willing to meet him, halfway as a gift, so no taxes have to be paid. Still, my husband and I are wondering if this is becoming a legal situation. We would benefit more from the whole amount, of course. Is something

fishy happening with Morgan Stanley or the sisters? What's our next best step? Are my husband's hands tied here? Do we need to get a lawyer? Or do we just take the half that they're offering? Signed, a frustrated wife trying to play nice, with some by-the-book siblings who might or might not have designs on what their father left them, which was poorly described. Ah, man, this is very curious. First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your husband's father. I'm sure that's a big loss for you guys. Second, I'm sorry you guys have had drama with the estate, whether it's just an innocent

mistake or there's something nefarious going on. It just sucks that you and your husband have to deal with all this and you can't enjoy the full inheritance. Gabe, what vibe are you getting from all this? Do you think the siblings are pulling something shady? Honestly, it's a little hard to tell, but not really. This sounds up on the up and up. Yeah, I don't really think so either.

Obviously, look, impossible for us to know for sure. But neglecting to include an account in a trust, that is such a extremely common mistake. It happens all the time. It can create a lot of headaches. And by the way, that is just one reason you need to make sure that your will and trust are airtight. I'm happy to refer anyone in California to the person who handled mine. She's amazing. Anyone outside of California.

Well, hype our sponsor, trust and will. trustinwill.com slash Jordan for 10% off the legal documents. They're great at what they do as well. The fact that all three siblings were listed in every other document, that just sounds to me like your husband wasn't deliberately removed by his father from this IRA. If he wanted to cut his son out of the estate, I'm assuming he would have removed him from every document, definitely from the will, but he didn't. So it's actually just really sounds like an oversight. Also, the way your sister-in-law is communicating about all of this, she's being so thorough and rigorous showing you all the paperwork, that sounds pretty transparent to me. This does

not read obviously like somebody who's trying to con you. Totally. Also, the fact that they're offering to give you guys half up to the point where the taxes start eating away at the gift, that means they're acknowledging that this situation is unfair. They're not going, sorry, pal, it wasn't in the trust, it's all ours. And I highly doubt that Morgan Stanley is up to anything fishy. On the other hand, you know, I don't know. We got to go there, I guess. Yeah, years of doing Feedback Friday has made me realize that anything is possible. So I do suppose there is some chance that the system is cloaking a dodgy move and all this procedural jargon, like, look, we can't possibly be doing anything wrong. We're just following all the rules. I hear that. But I feel like when you're

trying to steal your sibling sheriff and estate, you don't send them the account statements and the beneficiary information. Like, if this was your plan from the start, you wouldn't even begin the process of distributing it into thirds, right? Unless it occurred to the siblings that they could get more once they learned the IRA wasn't in the trust, and then they hatched the plan, but I don't know. I mean, I suppose that's possible. It just seems unlikely, given the facts here. but yeah. Here's the thing. I'm confused about this random note that she mentioned. The one that it doesn't have her husband's name on it. What are you talking about? Yeah, what are we talking about? Like something he wrote in the margin of a draft of the will? Are we talking about a post-it note?

Like a little note that he left to himself in his, I don't understand. Yeah. What is there? There's a folded napkin in his desk drawer. I mean, whatever it was, I can't imagine that matters very much. I'm no estate planning expert or a lawyer in this area at all. But my understanding is that what matters is the will, the trust, and the beneficiary forms in what they say. When you draw up a will, if you do it right, it's like every other page has a signature and it's notarized. There's thumbprints. I mean, it's airtight. Every detail is accounted for. Some random note you find in your dad's sock drawer after the fact, it's just not going to make a difference. Yeah, that's my understanding as well. But if an asset is not in a trust, to your point, then the executor might not

have any legal control over how it's dispersed or the obligation to do it. Doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do, but they might not be able to. I don't know. Probably true. But regardless, it sounds like your husband was supposed to inherit his third of the asset. So I would hope, and I would do the same thing for my sibling, if I had one, I would hope that your husband's siblings would find another way of making this right. That said, I totally get why they said, hey, we want to do right by you, but hey, are we also supposed to pay, I don't know, 28 grand in taxes now on this thing? That's not fair to them.

And again, this is why you need to make sure your estate planning is airtight people. So meeting him halfway as a gift, that might be the best they can do in this crappy situation without giving a bunch of dough to Uncle Sam. Yeah, I think they were all put in a bad spot by this mistake. The problem is that still doesn't seem fair to our friend and her husband because it wasn't their mistake either. Agreed. So here's what I'd do. I'd really make sure that this is, in fact, an admin error.

You guys can do that by reading the will and trust, confirm the IRA was not, in fact, included in the trust. If the will's 300 pages and full of legalese, you could drop it into some AI software, give it the facts of your situation, ask what the implications are for the disbursement of the IRA. it's not going to be that long. It's usually really simple. I mean, I don't know how complicated this estate is, but it doesn't sound like we're talking tens of millions here, so it's not probably

going to be that complex. Your best bet, though, would be to book a consult with an estate attorney, ask them to review the will and trust and advise you. They'll be able to tell you what's possible, what's fair, possibly even mediate a conversation with the siblings, not necessarily even in an adversarial way. I would also keep talking to the siblings. Keep being collaborative, keep being peaceful, keep looking for solutions. Don't turn this into a fight unless it really has to be. If I were your husband, I would say, hey, guys, this is clearly a mistake in the trust. I'm sorry it's created all these headaches.

All three of our names were listed on every other document. I think it's clear what dad intended. I'm asking you to just do what's right and disperse my third to me just as I would do for you. We can figure out the taxes thing together. There have to be other creative solutions to this tax problem. There are, I agree, and I'm also kind of confused why they aren't just talking about that. I mean, if the taxes make it impossible to give him his full third, can they, like, pitch in for a major expense, like a house renovation or something or take them on a few vacations

or give him this gift in several payments under the taxable threshold over a period of like three, four, or five years or something like that? I just feel like there are ways to make up this difference that will not create a huge burden for the siblings. That's exactly what I was thinking. They could also all agree to split the additional taxes on the gift if it's easier since they all share in the estate and this was the dad's oversight. So I'm very sorry things played out this way. It sucks, but I'm holding out hope that your in-laws who don't sound overtly sketchy will work with you guys to make this right. Hope your husband's holding up okay, and I hope you resolve this soon without unnecessary arguments and drama. Gabe, it's amazing to me how much trouble stuff like this can

cause in families. I mean, you've probably heard of, I certainly have heard of people not talking to each other after an estate, a will is dispersed because of an oversight like this, and a sibling's like, Well, looks like I'm taking the house and I'm, you know, oh, we're supposed to sell it, but now I'm not going to and you're not getting anything or, oh, we didn't have our youngest sibling on the will and we're just going to screw them out of it. It's just like the amount of greed that goes on when people pass away is crazy. I've heard of people who during the funeral basically go to the deceased person's house and start going through the drawers.

I mean, it can get pretty sick out there. So I really hope you're not dealing with anything even remotely like that. And good luck. By the way, you can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, you're conflicted about having children after looking at the data about how men behave,

or you're trying to help a close friend regain parental rights to her daughter after signing them over to her controlling mother. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, you know, it's a great use of that may be stolen inheritance, the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack, hydration and coffee sponsor,

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slash JHS. That's mintmobile.com slash JHS. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash JHS. That's it. There's no catch. $45 up front payment required equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower about 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, our newsletter, We BitWisers making a splash, a lot of feedback from you. People love reading it. We love writing it. You can sign up at Jordan Harbinger.com slash news. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, just over a year ago, I accepted my first management role, leading a team of about 10 people in an organization that was new to me. Up to that point, my career had

followed a pretty consistent pattern. I was a reliable and dedicated employee who truly enjoyed my work. I was known for doing my work well, being easy to work with, and not creating problems for others. I often got the sense that my supervisors trusted me and saw leadership. potential in me. They encouraged me more than once to apply for management roles, but I never did, partly because I was still early in my career and partly because I genuinely enjoyed focusing on my own work and doing it well. I also had some hesitation about the people management side of leadership, things like scheduling, coaching, and conflict resolution didn't naturally appeal to me. Last year, our family relocated, which required me to leave a role I loved and was good at.

After a long and discouraging job search, I was offered a supervisory role. I was hesitant, but the encouragement I'd received made me think, maybe this is the next step, maybe I can grow into this. Almost immediately, though, it felt like a bad fit. The stress of managing people and feeling responsible for them hit me hard, especially around staff failing to adhere to basic expectations, like attendance and timeliness. Interestingly, handling the occasional major issue like staff conflict,

or communication issues, feels heavy but manageable. But the minor issues, like complaints about janitorial staff missing a trash can, or how loudly a colleague's phone rings, feel impossible to deal with. As a result, I experienced a level of anxiety and depression that I hadn't dealt with before. I understand and appreciate the qualities of effective leadership, things like relationship building and empathy, come naturally to me. But skills such as delegation, decision, making, coaching. I understand how to do these in theory, but in practice, it feels like a hot and itchy costume. It looks okay from the outside, but inside I'm incredibly uncomfortable and can't wait to shed the costume at the end of the day. Still, I pushed myself to stick it out, telling myself that the

first year in any new role is the hardest, and that I owed it to myself to give it a fair shot. Good on you, man. I appreciate that mindset a lot. Now that I'm a year in, some things have improved. I've learned a lot and I'm coping better with the daily anxiety. I'm really proud of the way I've handled many situations and conversations, but it still doesn't feel right. I've had enough experience now to understand that I don't actually want to become the kind of person this role requires. It's not just specific leadership skills that I'm missing. It's the motivation and willingness to stretch myself into those skills. And that feels important to acknowledge, especially because my team deserves a good supervisor and a leader who is genuinely invested in the work. So I started job hunting again.

Given the current job market, I'll likely be moving into a role with less responsibility and probably less pay. I'm fortunate that I can absorb that financially, but it still feels like a step backward. Yeah, I get that. Tough bind. And it's hard not to frame all of this as a failure. How do I explain to potential employers why I'm stepping out of a management role without raising red flags? Once I take the step back, am I doomed to a lesser role for my career? And how do I make peace with this internally? Signed a reluctant leader stepping out of the game because being a manager only made me inflamed. Good questions. So first of all, I'm sorry that this leadership role did such a number on you. Being depressed and anxious for a year because of your job? I mean, those are

important signals. Obviously, something was not right here and you had to make a change. That said, I am quite impressed that you stuck it out for so long. I think this is a lot about you. You didn't run away as soon as things got hard. You didn't avoid the challenge. And so even if you're not meant to be a manager, or at least this manager, you grew a lot. That's a gift. So I'm kind of of two minds here. On one hand, if you don't enjoy managing people, if being in a leadership position is not your jam, that's fair. In fact, just to put you at ease a little bit, I love owning my own business and I love being responsible for our results and our sponsors and the content of the show. I do not love managing people. That is not who I really am. I don't know. I'm just open about that. I think it's

fine. And I've hired people as a result who are self-directed, largely self-sufficient, good leaders, independent. Those are the people I need to work with. I don't like checking up on people and micromanaging their crap. I think it's awful. There are times I get involved in stuff. Don't get me wrong. But I'm like you, I bristle at having to be on top of people too much. And I also find it to be just like a really big waste of time when there are other people that don't need that. And I'm not even dealing with some of the BS that you had to. I'm not dealing with Marjorie, who has the most annoying ringtone on earth or talking Brett from accounting down because he's upset the janitor didn't throw away his cliff bar rappers. That would drive me up the wall, man. I get it. Gabe,

I'm imagining everyone in this office with their heads down, working on spreadsheets or whatever, and then all of the sudden, for the sixth time that morning, you're here, there's nothing. I fear and they're like, Marjorie, your phone. Where is she? I could, first of all, I could see why they hired you for GTA. I know, you thought that was just Celine Dion. I didn't sample that. That was just me. Believe it or not. Yeah, meanwhile, Marjorie's in the break room completely. She's like making herself a latte. She has no idea that she's driving people and saying. Just letting it ring at full volume. You know what this reminds me of? So years ago, I used to, when I was in L.A. more, I used to go to breakfast as much as I could with Cal Fussman and Larry King. This is pre-pandemic because I used to go to

Nate and Al's every day. And it was a cool breakfast because you'd show up and Larry King ate cereal, which he left at the restaurant, which is so weird, right? Because you go to a restaurant, you can have anything you want and they have his box of cereal. He had his own cereal that he would leave there? Yes. What was the cereal? Do you remember? I don't remember, but it was basically cheer. I remember it being like, okay, that's what he eats for breakfast every day. He loves kicks. Yeah, other people had bagels and stuff, and I would show up and eat actual protein and a little bit of carbs. It was kind of fun because sometimes you'd show up and it would be a bunch of writers or sometimes you show up and it'd just be them.

And sometimes you'd show up and it would be like Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was really something. Cool breakfast. It was fun, yeah. And you could ask them about like OG radio stuff or whatever. And they had a lot of stories of people that you've heard it, but they'd be like, oh, yeah, Muhammad Ali, this and that. And you're just like, wow, they knew these guys. It was fun because we were friends, but also they were legends, and they were from a different time.

Speaking of which, they would leave their phones. This is what the point of the story is. They would leave their phones on the table, and it would ring, and it would be a full volume like, that ringer. Oh, I forgot about that one. Yeah, or like the actual OG phone bell ringer on the iPhone, and they would pick up their phone, look at the screen, never take the call, never. and then they would put it back down, not silenced, just letting it ring.

And I'm like, you guys know that you can push any button on the phone to silence the ringer. And they were like, oh, yeah, well, I have to do that next time. And they would never did it. They would just pick up, it would ring, first of all, for a solid 30 seconds because they were just finishing their sentence. And then they would turn around and pick up their phone, flip it back over, look at the screen, put it back down. And it would just ring to completion until it had voicemail. And if the person called again, same thing. Oh, this killing me.

And I'm like, you guys are in a restaurant, first of all. Like, you know you could silence calls, guys. And yeah, Larry's like, oh, I'm going to have to try that. You know, it's just like, if that wasn't quite... You can try it right now. Like, right now would be the perfect time to try that. Larry is funny, man. Cal and Larry were both hilarious.

I remember one day he told me the story. He's like, yesterday, I had to go. I went to the Apple store with my son. By the way, Larry King was like 81 or whatever, and he had a son that was 15, I think. So he's like, I went to the Apple store, and he got an Apple watch. And I was like, did you ask the man how it works? And he's like, dead.

I don't have to do that. And he's like, the youngsters. They know all about the technology. That's because he was saying that because I knew how to silence the iPhone. And I was just thinking, how did you not accidentally figure this out just by picking up your phone when it rings? How did you not, by mistake, silence it many times? Anyway. Breakfast started off sounding so.

awesome and now it sounds so annoying. Like it's hitting all the notes. It's pluses and minuses, my friend. Yeah. I wouldn't have made it a daily occurrence. No, that really was, it was, I was blessed to have time with those guys while they were around. Cal's still around. Larry has passed, but it was great. I could ask him for advice on interviewing and it was, it was wholesome and valuable, but also, I remember one thing he told me was, you know, Jordan, one thing that's worked for me, I got to listen to your show. One thing that's worked for me is dash a little personal detail into your stories because the audience, you're there every week.

They want to know a little bit about you. You bring the audience into you. And I remember thinking that's literally what every podcast is, right? But then you've got to think when Larry King started on radio in the 50s or whatever, radio announcers had a fake transatlantic accent and they just talked and they read something that was scripted for them. Or maybe they eventually had callers in the 70s and stuff. Right, but they weren't like, here's a thing about my personal life.

That never happened. That was unprofessional. So he was almost innovating and maybe was actually innovating by talking about his wife or talking about his kids or talking about something that happened to him that day. Nobody had ever done that before on the radio. That was kind of his thing. So I thought that was kind of interesting that he was like, hey, I'm giving you this big secret that helped me make my career, talk about yourself a little bit and let the audience into your life.

That was novel. I thought that was kind of interesting coming from him. Anyway, all that to say, it's perfectly all right if you don't want to manage a bunch of annoying babies in the office. At the same time, I do think your response to this job, the extreme depression, anxiety, suffocation, inauthenticity, I do think that's worth studying a little bit more, just, you know, in the interest of appreciating what these stressors brought out in you. Because what I'm hearing is that there were two things about you that this job pushed up

against. Feeling responsible for other people and participating in conflict, which, to be fair, hard for most people. But definitely harder for some than for others. I mean, if you grew up in a house where, for example, you were responsible for taking care of a chaotic parent and an employee comes to you and is like, Clarence didn't empty my trash bin last night? How dare he? That kind of thing could make you want to scream because suddenly you feel the way you did when you were young. Or if you're a person who prides herself on being low drama and self-sufficient and easy to work with and one of your employees comes to you like, I'm so overwhelmed, I need help. That might put you in touch with some

interesting feelings. Maybe you feel turned off, resentful, who knows, maybe even a little envious, that they just feel so comfortable coming out and saying they need something from you. I'm just giving you two random examples. I'm making those up. I have no idea if they apply to you. Well, the second one might. I'm sure you know better. So the way you responded to those interactions, I'm sure they also played a huge role in how they played out, how taxing they were, what you brought home with you at the end of the day. And I do think that that's very useful to unpack, because we take these qualities and patterns with us wherever we go, even if you don't take another management position, for example. I totally agree. I'm just thinking about this thing she said about how

the major stuff was sometimes easier than the minor stuff. You know, sometimes it's the tedious stuff that just does your head in, whereas solving a harder problem with a real impact, that can feel weirdly more doable because it matters. But I also think that she struggles with being the sheriff and also kind of being the mom, if the phone ringing example and the janitor thing or any indication. Yeah, also attendance and timeliness, just like basic shit, these people should be able to handle on their own. Come on, man, I can't blame her for hating that. So maybe it's not conflict in general that's hard for her, but this specific role that she found herself in, like this type of conflict. And I would be curious to know what earlier experiences that echoed or didn't. But I also wonder if the problem wasn't being responsible for people, but being responsible for these people, people who have these particular problems and who look to her to solve them in this. way, which she feels was often silly and beneath her.

Good point. Yeah, it might help to drill down a little bit. But then I'm also wondering, like, could she have handled those conversations differently, maybe in a way that suited her personality better, but was also even stronger leadership? Like, for example, when someone comes to her and says, Marjorie's ringtone is too loud, you have to go talk to her. Could she have said something like, yeah, that sounds super annoying? Why don't you go ask her nicely to put it on silent mode or whatever? Like, no need for me to be the messenger. Or I hear you. That's annoying. But we all share the office.

There was always going to be distractions, so maybe let this one roll off your back or get noise-canceling headphones or something. Yeah, same thing with, what was his name? Brett from accounting? Yeah. Like, okay, Brett, if the trash thing happens again next time you see Clarence, maybe you remind him that yours needs emptying. You know, I'm your manager, bud.

I'm not your mom. You got this, Brett. I believe in you. Like, it's not that hard. Maybe throw your cliff bar rappers in Marjorie's trash cans since he's never a freaking desk anyways. Kill two birds with one stone, really. That's right.

So what you're getting at is, did these interactions really, really need to be so taxing. Were they taxing in part because of the way she responded to them? Or the way that she internalizes responsibility. That's also a good distinction because there's the objective responsibility she has for people and then there's how this responsibility feels to her. To her, exactly. And that's always the case, right?

This costume she described for one person, it can feel hot and itchy and like, I can't wait to go home and take it off. And for another person, it can just be like, okay, this is a second skin that I have to wear for part of the day. To your point, Jordan, it's all based on our personalities and our pasts. The whole thing is to be able to say stuff like that, you have to be willing to engage in some conflict and that's hard for her. Yes, but so was taking on all of their problems in this way. So like, which hard does she prefer? These are just a couple of ways she could have maybe respectfully handed those problems back to her staff and sent the message, you know,

please step up, be a leader yourself, I'm a manager, I'm not a babysitter. I think if you do that enough times, people do start to learn. And also she would start to learn how to not get involved in everything and hopefully how to not internalize this stuff in the same way. So true. And if her employees don't learn, then maybe a bigger conversation is in order. Maybe she set some new policies or she replaces them with people who are leaders, which is also part of good leadership. Absolutely. So when you interview with new hiring managers, one way you could frame this is, I led a team of people for over a year, I delivered good results, I learned a ton. One of the things I've learned is that I really enjoy and I take pride in my work and I want to get back to having a connection

you know with that work with the product that's where I thrive that's where I think I can make the biggest impact right now really nice much better than what I would have pitched which was hey people are annoying as hell and I'm done babysitting I mean it's spoken like a true gta character yeah that's right I don't know who knows if you get a cool interviewer who gets it maybe she could say a version of that they might find it refreshing I don't know but this more diplomatic version is also completely true, and it basically says the same thing. Honestly, I don't think you're doomed to a lesser role for the rest of your career once you take this step back, because first off, you can always make a change again.

It's all about the story you tell. And second, it sounds like you're very talented, and the message you're getting from a lot of people is you should be a manager. So I wouldn't be surprised if the opportunity came up again. Interesting that she's worried about that, though. It kind of makes me wonder if there's a part of her that still does want more responsibility, even though she also bristles at it. Yeah, that's a conflict that she might resolve

by digging into a lot of the stuff we've been talking about. I agree. And digging into it is also how you're going to make peace with this internally. I know that was your last question. I think the ambivalence you feel right now comes from not fully understanding why this job was so difficult and whether to factor these feelings

into your decision to leave and how much they should matter. You know, I'm realizing more and more how rich her conflict actually is. There's a lot of good information for her in there. She just needs to really part, it. The conflict might be, I could be a leader, but not at this place, or not right now. Or it might be, hey, I'm realizing I'm not a manager, but it's hard for me to accept that about myself.

Or it might even just be, I just don't want to manage people, but I also want more money. So something's got to give. How do I work this out? There's probably no scenario for our friend where she never feels a conflict or a difficult feeling about her job ever again. I think this is much more about finding a relationship with her work, her colleagues, herself, that make these feelings, survivable, and they don't bury her. And where she's honoring her true needs and values, which might also be up for negotiation right now, which is great. And if you decide down the road that you want to earn more money, but that means managing people again, then you're definitely going to have to approach this stuff in a new way. So I think this analysis is worth the effort.

Whatever you end up doing, I know you're going to make an impact. These companies are lucky to have you. And good luck. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes and critique my terrible Larry King impression and or my amazing Celine Dion covers. That's over on Reddit's in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. You know what's more annoying than Marjorie's bootleg maroon five ringtone blasting at full volume? Missing out on the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this

show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. That is take a moment. support our sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at Jordanharbinger.com slash deals. And if that doesn't work, you can always email us, Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're happy to dig up codes for you. It's that important that you support those who support the show.

Now for the rest of Feedback Friday. And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler. My recommendation of the week is a documentary called In Waves and War. It's a documentary about a bunch of former Navy SEALs who have severe PTSD and traumatic brain injuries, like some of the most intense military stuff that I've ever heard about or seen on TV. And it follows these guys as they go through psychedelic assisted therapy using Ibogain and 5MEO DMT in these specialized clinics. I think one was in Mexico and then somehow it's connected to this huge trial or program that's run through Stanford under the close supervision of medical professionals, clinical professionals,

which is fascinating. Right. Yeah. It's kind of a amazing how mainstream, how do you say it, Ibogane? I think it's Ibogane, yeah, but sometimes they say Ibogaine. I don't know. That's how I've always said this in my head, so I'm trying to get it from you as well. But I'll say Iba gain, you say Ibogine. How's that? It's kind of amazing how mainstream Ibogaine and slash Ibo Gain and Five MEODMT are becoming, man. Trump just signed that executive order directing, I think directing the FDA and DEA to establish a pathway for eligible patients. I think it's mostly designed for veterans to access Ibogane compounds, which is

wild. Brian Johnson, former show guest here, he's on Instagram recording his five MEO DMT sessions, just everywhere. The psychedelic aspect of this documentary is undeniably fascinating. And this doc does a pretty good job of trying to capture these guys' trips as they describe them after the fact, which is really, really hard to do. I mean, it's just so personal and profound and strange and hard to put into words. But what really moved me about this documentary, and I'm just realizing how fitting this is for today's episode, especially the question we're going to take next, what really moved me was watching these incredibly intense and macho guys who are not touchy-feely, who are not hippie-dippy, who are not really part of a culture where you fly to another country and take a

substance and heal your childhood trauma and you talk to God and all of that. There's one guy in the dock who's literally like, this is so not me. I cannot believe I'm doing this. I don't want to do this, but I can't keep living like this. And you see these guys open themselves up to an experience that is just so foreign and so terrifying. And some of the sessions, I have to say, were hard to watch. I actually cried several times, even before they got to the psychedelic stuff. Some of the stuff they talk about is just really, it's just very painful. And you watch them go through these ceremonies and integration sessions with therapists, and they get so much better. And they start talking to their families again. And this one guy who has like splitting headaches for 10 or 15 years,

the headaches completely disappear. They're no longer suicidal. I mean, you literally see the light in their eyes turn on. It's remarkable. Wow, that is incredible. I mean, this stuff is powerful, especially when you're doing it responsibly under medical supervision. It was crazy, dude. Even the Stanford researchers in the documentary were like, how is this possible? Like, this is miraculous. And they were like, we've never seen anything like this. I just found the whole thing really inspiring that even these Navy SEALs who are in the darkest place I can imagine being, who have a lot of ego and a lot of pride on the line, can go, okay, I'm scared. I'm scared. but I'm willing to try something new. And then they discover a whole new life. And it's just something

we talk about on the show all the time. So that's my wreck in Waves and War. It's currently streaming on Netflix. We'll link to it in the show notes. Wow, this is right up my alley. I'm definitely going to grab this for my flight to China. Yeah, it's a great watch for the plane. Perfect. All right. Next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 55-year-old dude, and I retired from the military after 26 years of service. I have a master's degree, and for the last 10 years, I've been a successful middle manager in the IT field. I've been married to my one and only wife. We were high school sweethearts for 34 years. We've always had a very strong marriage. We have two kids who are doing very well in their educations and careers and have no college debt. I share all of this to illustrate

that I feel I have lived the American dream. And the four of us are a pretty successful family unit in my opinion. I'm very appreciative of what I have. Wonderful. Both that you guys are doing well and that you're grateful for it. Well done. But my mom and I have a difficult past. She was a teen mom in the early 70s and was a partier and an alcoholic. I'm an only child. Her first husband, my biological father, beat her. And my enduring memory of him is him blocking my mom and me in our tiny bathroom and beating her when I was about three. Jeez, that is terrible. I'm so sorry, friend. When I was 13, the alcoholism reached its height. and I was taken away from her by the state and entered the foster care system.

Man, that's so tough. That is so sad, man. Her parents, my grandparents, were eventually awarded custody. They raised me until I graduated high school in 1989, and I took off for the military. After I left my moms, we would keep in touch with a couple letters and phone calls a year. The frequency picked up a bit once texting became a thing. Our relationship was not lovey-dovey, but a bit more reserved. She remarried two more times.

Husband number three was finally the love of her life. He and I got along well, but I was out of the house when they married and we didn't have a father-son relationship. My wife has always been pretty reserved about my mom. I would call it more tolerance than anything. My wife's judgment of people is pretty keen and usually spot on, whereas I'm more hopeful with people. I can relate. Jen's totally the same way. As the years went by, the situation with my mom became a water under the bridge thing,

and we communicated more. Having kids sped things up, and she loved having grandkids. We never talked about the spousal abuse, alcoholism, foster care, custody, not a word to this day. Her side of the family's coping strategy has always been, Just Pretend It Never Happened and Things Will Go Back to Normal. I had seven aunts and uncles, and so many times I heard Just Pretend It Never Happened, regarding family disputes. Ah, yes, sweep it under the rug, the official coping mechanism of families everywhere. Given all this and where I ended up, I feel like I beat the odds.

We grew up in state A. We've lived in neighboring state B for 27 years. When our kids turned 7 and 8, my mom and her husband moved into the same small town in state B to be closer to the grandkids. She would come over, get the kids off to school, pick them up, go to all the events. In this time, our relationship became better, a lot better, even normal, I would say. Wow, that is a wild arc. It's touching, but it's crazy that they never really dealt with any of the bad stuff that happened. In 2019, after 30-plus years of marriage, her husband died after a short battle with cancer.

Of course, it devastated her. My wife and I provided her a lot of emotional support and helped her navigate the funeral, post-death finances, and life in general. Our relationship grew stronger. She and I would go to concerts once a month, and my wife, mom, and I would go out to eat every Friday. Very pleasant. But she also started drinking more again, often to the point of getting drunk.

Oh, come on, Mom. She started drunk-diling our oldest kid, then in college, crying and telling her she was so lonely. This continued getting more intense each time until on one call she said she was going to kill herself. My daughter texted me this while they were starting. still on the phone and I immediately went to my mom's house. She answered the door with a gun in her hand. Oh my God, that's intense. I sat with her for a while, removed the guns from the house and

put her to bed. The next day, I told my mom that she needed help and got her into therapy. Well done, man. Way to step up and handle that immediately. Holy smokes. She went once. She had many excuses. What can a 30-year-old therapist tell me about life? All they wanted to do is put me on drugs. These people all have titles of family and marriage counselors. How can they help a 70-year-old who isn't married? She says it was just an episode, and everything's okay now. So she never went back. That's so frustrating, but yeah, we've heard this story before.

To be fair, you can't argue with that logic. Everybody knows that all therapists out there are 30 years old and only give life advice. Yeah. Oh, their title is marriage and family therapist? Oh, yeah? Well, my husband died. What now? Trump card therapist.

They only want to put me on drugs. Well, you didn't have too many qualms of drugs in the 70s, did you barb? Savage, dude. To say nothing of the fact that therapists don't prescribe medication, so this isn't even a problem. That's a good point. So, man, his mom really doesn't want to talk about stuff at all. Well, I guess that fits. Fast forward to November 2024.

Another manager quit at work, and my boss decided she would give me his workload instead of hiring a replacement. My wife and I discussed our finances, which were very strong after planning and saving well. so I decided to quit. I took on a part-time job doing something I enjoy to kill the time and give us spending money. Man, this guy is so responsible, so reasonably, so on top of it. I know. It makes me feel bad about myself. I'm like, who is this functional human being writing into feedback Friday? Of course, it's about somebody else. I'm just appreciating how, yeah, how on top of his life he is. I understand why he's proud and grateful for what he's built. So he goes on. Shortly after, my wife's brother-in-law got cancer. We started throwing

around the idea of moving back to State A to be closer to her three sisters, who she's really close with, and offer support during the cancer treatments. I told my mom all of this, and she responded, well, that would certainly be different, huh? Like, it was no big deal. I thought my mom would move back to State A as well. But when we actually bought a house in State A near my wife's family, my mom completely lost it. She called me up drunk and told me she was going to kill herself, that my wife is manipulating me. She asked me, what the hell does your wife know about cancer

and how could she possibly help? She's no doctor. Told me I should quote unquote grow a pair and stand up to my wife. Called me a pussy, said she can't believe I would choose my wife over her, why would I abandon her, and several other insults.

She ended by saying to never call, text, or come over again. Oh my God. Well, that's awful to hear from your own mother. I am sorry about that, but I think we all know what's going on. here, your mom clearly has a core wound around abandonment, and when she saw that you weren't prioritizing her, she felt ditched. And in her pain, which is part of what honestly sounds like a

personality disorder, she lashed out at you, hurt you, punished you, and then tried to manipulate you as well, the very thing she accused your wife of doing, I might add. Tried to convince you to stay close while also pushing you away, which is very confusing. Look, I feel bad for your mom. She's obviously in a lot of pain, but this is also very hurtful, And frankly, dude, it's nuts. She's nuts. I'm sorry she said all that to you, though. A week later, she texted, apologized, and asked when we were moving.

I told her the date. We talked once more. And among other things, I told her that, yes, I would choose my wife over my mom, as any grown man should. Good for you. Dr. Ken Adams would be proud. This guy's got his head screwed on straighter than most people I know, for real. On moving day, I went to her house to say goodbye, but she wasn't there.

Okay. Well, so I assume she blew them off. Geez, this lady. So she wasn't just at Trader Joe's, right? This is deliberate act of- This is actually a fascinating part of his letter because it's kind of unclear. Did they have a plan?

He went over there. She just didn't want to see him. So she left. Did he go over there without telling her? She just happened to be, but then he didn't try to follow up. Like, they didn't, it's unclear. Like, I wonder if she didn't want to say goodbye

and he also maybe not, didn't want to push the issue because it was also hard for him. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to guess they had a plan and she just decided not to be there. So he goes on.

Now, I believe that what people say when they're drunk is their real uninhibited thoughts. To say the least, her words hurt. I've always considered myself pretty resilient and the military certainly encouraged a suck-it-up buttercup way of dealing with adversity. Life's tough and you move on, you know? I have a pretty low tolerance for BS in our lives.

If this were anyone else, I would just say, cool, nice knowing you, we're done, cut them out of my life and move on. But this is my mom, and I'm having more trouble dealing with this than I thought. Yeah, man, understandably so. It's now been eight months since we moved. My mom has texted twice, once on my birthday. I responded with a simple thanks.

The other time I could tell she was drunk, and she asked me for money because, quote, it was the least I could do, unquote. She has no want for money. I'm still on all of her bank accounts, so I can see everything, and she's financially healthy. Wow, so now she's just manipulating you for cash, too,

to see if you'll do it and comply? Cool, okay, well, my compassion for this woman is swiftly waning. So I sent her the $20,000 she asked for, essentially calling her bluff. Oh, no. I figured she would feel guilty when she sobered up and void the check, but she cashed it. Oh, man.

She sends me a check for her portion of the cell phone bill every month with a love you and miss you note. I know in her mind it's just a pretend it never happened deal, but I just can't do that on this one. I haven't initiated any conversation with her in any form, and frankly, I don't want to. My wife is done with her, and I don't blame her one bit. Yeah, man, you know what? Can you send me $20,000 and ignore me? I'm down.

Gosh, darn it. I get it. It's good for both of you keeping your distance. Your mom is not an easy person to be close with, sadly, and your wife, I don't blame her for being like, look, bro, I've humored this for long enough, I'm over it. But I'm so conflicted. I feel like a horrible person. But intellectually, I don't think I should. I feel fully justified for living my life for my wife and me, especially given my early childhood. Hard yes. In establishing medical care with the VA in my new area, I answered their

standard, are you experiencing depression questions with a yes. I'm scheduled now for therapy in a couple of weeks. I'm happy to be going, but I never thought I would be a therapy person. It's just so out of character for me. But I'm hopeful it will be helpful. Yeah, man, it's out of character for most guys, because we're used to bottling shit up, all the more so if you're a veteran. So good, good on you for doing something so out of character. I actually really commend you for that. Sometimes we need to be out of character to get our stuff handled, you know? You can see why that documentary reminded me of this, this guy. This is what it's kind of all about. So he wraps up. What are your thoughts on the whole situation. Am I a horrible person? Signed a conflicted vet who's always been restricted from being

upset and was conscripted at the outset into constrictive emotional debt that is now proving hard to forget. Uh, yeah, you're a horrible person and your mom's right about everything and you need to move back to your old state and spend every day cleaning her guns with her. No, man, come on. Pretty much my take as well. Let's wrap it up. First of all, I'm so, I'm so sorry, man, for the childhood you had, for this mom you had, for all the pain and chaos she created for you and your wife and your kids. It's truly heartbreaking stuff and really intense. It goes without saying, your mom is a very troubled person. She clearly has some major trauma going back a long way. She wouldn't turn to alcohol like this if she didn't. And every loss or challenge that she's

experienced, the death of her third husband, you moving away, that must echo some very old experiences for her. And it obviously causes her a lot of distress and anxiety. and anger, and that makes her want to drink, and it disinhibits her, and then you get the brunt of that. It's all so tragic, really, to be verbally attacked by your own mother, to have to intervene before she hurts herself. I can't even imagine what that must have been like for you and what that must have brought up. And like I said, half of me is going, this poor woman, she has so much trauma, she doesn't have the tools to work on it, and she deserves compassion.

And the other half of me is like, okay, well, she's refusing to take responsibility for herself and is hurting the people closest to her. and if this were my mom, I'd probably be done with her too. So I guess both of these things can be true, but this is your mother. Of course, you're conflicted. You deserve so much better than this, and she's acting outrageously. And also, it's really hard to pull away from a parent, especially your mom, even if she's kind of a mess. Totally well said.

This guy has like a Tony Soprano mom, doesn't he? Yeah, he really does. Just constitutionally miserable and impossible to please. I mean, at least when she's drinking. And this all creates like a lot of guilt and resentment and conflict for him. It's just awful. Maybe a rewatch season one of the Sopranos. That should help.

He's also starting therapy for the first time. So actually that might be the perfect show for him to watch. Yeah. Ironically, the only thing an MFT can actually prescribe is to stream a show on HBO Max. So Tony Sopranos mom, I don't know if they ever come out and say this, but she has some kind of personality disorder or something, right? Yeah, definitely. Like BPD or something. Something.

It's a little vague, but something like that. David Chase, the creator of the show, based that character on his own mother, which I can't even imagine what that was like growing up. Yikes. Okay. Didn't know that. What's the little odd to me here is he was raised by her parents, right? After the age of 13. Yeah, so maybe you have some clue? I don't know. But yeah, his mom's got some wounds. And I'm sure that's why she didn't want to go to therapy because it's just too painful to even think about confronting. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that she was abused in the same way. glad you said that because I was like, maybe I need to clarify that I don't know if the grandpa and grandma that raised you are the people that messed up. No, not at all.

It could be as simple as growing up in a family where nobody talks about anything. Dot, dot, dot. She turns out this way. I'm just saying that when people are in this degree of pain, there could be something really serious that they've never shared with anybody, you know? So all this to say, your conflict makes a lot of sense. The conflict is the product of a few things. Being raised by a mother like this, dealing with her addiction from a young age,

wanting to protect her, starting with protecting her from your father, being a military guy who probably takes on responsibility very seriously and easily, and who takes pride in keeping people safe and fulfilling his duty. Also, just being a decent human being, man, because like I said, this is your mom, and it's sad, and you know what she's like when she's not drinking, when she's not spiraling, and I'm sure it would be devastating if she ever did hurt herself or took her own life, and I'm sure that you don't want to feel that grief and that guilt. So I totally get why you're torn here, man. But we also have to acknowledge that your mom is a very difficult person to put it mildly. She can be kind and helpful and involved, all those wonderful things, but she can also be

aggressive, hurtful, chaotic, confusing, avoidant, everything you're grappling with. And that's the contradiction of your mom. That's the trauma and that's the addiction and it's really heartbreaking. But so it's equally important, I think, to remember a few things. They might sound obvious. We talk about them a lot, but I think they'd bear repeating because they're so easy to forget. The first, you are not ultimately responsible for your mom. You are not responsible for keeping her sober, which is impossible to do anyway, especially when you don't live in the same house. Thank God you don't. You're not responsible for making her go to therapy, although I love that you tried. You're not responsible for making things okay for her by capitulating to her demands, and I commend you for not doing that and for telling her point blank that you

are going to prioritize yourself and your wife and your family. I think that's awesome. That is not easy to do. And that tells me that you're already further along in this process than I think a lot of folks with parents like this tend to be. And again, Dr. Ken Adams, episode 942, his whole work is helping men learn to rewrite these patterns. But it's easy to make those calls and draw those boundaries and still feel internally responsible, internally conflicted, and letting go of that is a process. I do wonder if that might have been part of the decision to send her the $20,000 as well. Yeah, I think so. that is calling her bluff. Another way to put it is that it was a test, right? It was a test of just how

self-interested she might be, whether she really views him as an ATM or can put a dollar value on their relationship, or whether she would feel a shred of guilt about taking his money when she doesn't actually need it. But I also wonder if it was just really hard to tell his mom, I'm sorry, but no, you're financially stable, all your needs are met. I'm not going to send you $20,000 for no reason. Totally. Yeah, the money is just one of many ways he's learned to cater to her or avoid. It's also avoidance, right? Like, oh, she might try to fight me on this even though she doesn't need it, and it's easier for me to just capitulate on this one. So, I don't know. All that to say, I just want to remind you, it is not your job to save her, especially since she's

making it basically impossible to help her in the first place. A corollary, or corollary, depending on who you ask to this. Thank you. Is accepting that you are not ultimately responsible for your mom means inviting the possibility of even more pain in a way. Because if she does, end up, say, I don't know, drinking herself to death or taking her own life, which I genuinely hope never happens. But sadly, it's a possibility. Or just being chaotic and miserable for the rest of her life, you would have to bear that grief. Sometimes wanting to step in and save someone like this, especially a parent, it's partly a way to stave off that grief, which can be tremendous. Yes, it's about them, of course, but it's also about us. So I think it's important to really get

clear on what kind of relationship you want to have with your mother's pain. Yeah, and it's an interesting theme also on today's episode, what kind of relationship you want to have with the responsibility that you feel to spare your mom from that pain. Exactly, which again, he's already redefining beautifully, but when you feel torn, it might be helpful to come back to the question of given the limit of my ability to improve things here, why do I feel so torn about pulling back or standing up to myself? Yeah, it's a nice question. I also want to acknowledge that. Getting to point where he can really answer that question might require a lot of talking and processing on his part. He has a lot of stuff to unpack himself, right? His childhood, being separated from his mother,

being in the military, all of these intense experiences that he's mentioned. Yeah, he's going to have to David chase this thing. I think so. This isn't just an easy cognitive question, you know, like, why do you feel so responsible for her? You can put that thought down any time. I doubt that it's a switch. He can just toggle. No, it's dynamic. I agree. I just say that. so he understands that this might take some time, and that's okay. It's a journey. It should be a journey. And that's actually kind of the third thing I would keep in mind, which is that the so-called answer to the problem of your mom is not simple. I think it's probably going to be an ongoing conversation with yourself, with your wife, with your kids, definitely with your therapist,

about how to work through the many feelings that she brings up. Look, you could solve this, quote-unquote, solve by drawing a hard boundary and calling it a day and cut her off, you know, only communicate by text, not sending her any more. money, which, by the way, I do think that's absolutely the right call. If she's not actually in trouble, there's no reason you should be giving your abusive mother tens of thousands of dollars. If you did cut her off, you might insulate yourself from some of the pain. And so there's definitely a role for boundaries here, and that's something you can talk to your therapist about. But even boundaries are an ongoing process. They can change over time. You saw that when your mom started becoming more

involved in your life when she was healthy. And they won't spare you from the feelings your mom has left you with, even if you guys aren't interacting much. You know, Jordan, I think his letter is really about coming to terms with a lot of stuff that he has avoided or glossed over for a very long time, both because it was the family way and also because it was the military way, and that kind of suited him. What did he say about that? I've always considered myself pretty resilient. The military certainly encouraged a suck-it-up buttercup way of dealing with adversity.

Yeah. Life's tough. You just move on. All of that. That's how Trumbull works. You just move on. No big deal. I found it interesting that twice in his letter, he said some version of,

my life is pretty amazing. I'm very appreciative of what I have, you know? Right, I've lived the American dream. We're a pretty successful family unit. I'm super grateful for what I have. Yeah. He also said, given my childhood and where I ended up, I feel like I beat the odds. So there's, he keeps coming back to this. He did beat the odds. A lot of people with these traumas and challenges would have really struggled in life, I think. Totally. And I love that he's grateful for how his life has turned out and his career and his family, who seem to be doing really well, it's a beautiful quality, especially in somebody who, unfortunately, has been hurt quite a bit in his life. But I also wonder if that stance is kind of

part of the whole suck it up buttercup thing. Well, I see what you mean. Like, what do I have to complain about? It could have been so much worse. Exactly, exactly. I'm not questioning his gratitude. I believe that it's real. And I'm so glad he feels that gratitude. But sometimes that position can also serve to tamp down some other difficult thoughts and feelings, right? The reality is that he can be grateful for how well his life turned out and angry at his mother. He can be proud that he beat the odds and he can also be pretty shaken up by the fact that he had to overcome those odds in the first place. Totally. It's not all one to the other. I think part of his task now is making room for multiple feelings at once, multiple narratives. And if he's grateful for this wonderful life that he's built,

as he should be, to feel that gratitude without using it to also shut down other equally valid experiences. It's a good point and it kind of fits with the whole military way, doesn't it? You know, what have to complain about soldier, look how far you've come, look how much you have. I think this is one of the big gifts of therapy is just widening the frame and making room for more, more feelings, more contradictions, the full catastrophe, as they say. So yeah, this is a story about his very painful mother, but it's really a story about him choosing to take a very different approach to his feelings, his relationships, his past, his whole life after decades of not giving these things airtime seemingly whatsoever. And I'm just really proud of you for that, man, because it's no small

thing. So you deserve that, and I wish you a lot of insight and growth and therapy. And also, you already have a running start because you are well on your way to rewriting a lot of this. Could not agree more, Gabe. It's a big deal. It takes real courage. Also, we've heard from a lot of veterans who've gotten therapy through the VA. We also know a couple clinicians who've worked there. It's a remarkable organization in many ways. It's probably woefully underfunded, but it's staffed by good folks. Thank God the place exists because veterans deserve that support.

You also probably know that the VA has some very real limitations and sadly it doesn't always give veterans what they truly need. So if you get there and they're like, yeah, we can only give you 12 sessions with a therapist or you don't love the therapist you're matched with or whatever it is.

Please don't give up. Keep advocating for what you need. You often have to work the system a little bit to get the best care. And if you can't get it at the VA, man, please look for it outside. Private practice, better help, group therapy. there are lots of options out there

and I would love for you to continue your therapy journey no matter what. So you're not a horrible person, my friend, quite the opposite. But when you have a parent like this, standing up to them and protecting yourself, that can feel like a betrayal. It's not. I think your mother has actually let you down,

but maybe it's more accurate to say that she's let herself down by not taking care of herself at all and you've had to pay the price for that in a variety of ways and that is deeply sad. But the opportunity here is to make sense of all that and heal, and that's the gift inside the pain. And you deserve that gift. I know it's going to lead you to a much better place. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. Go back and check out our

episodes with Valerie Friedland on accents and our skeptical Sunday on medical tourism, if you haven't heard those yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business come through my network. That's the circle of people I know like and trust. I'm teaching how to build that kind of thing for yourself for free. In our six-minute networking course, it is actually free. No shenanigans on the think iffic platform at six-minute networking.com. Dig the well before you're thirsty folks, build relationships before you need them. Show notes and transcripts on the website. Advertisers, deals, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadasidlowskis, and of course Gabriel Ms. Rahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, so consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please do share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview from Joe Loia, a man who robbed

30 banks across California, but says the real crime scene was his childhood. where his Pentecostal preacher father beat him over a hundred times before he turned 15. For 14 months, I robbed 30 banks, sometimes several in one day. I lost all sense that my life was going to be long at all. I just wanted to grab the loot and get the hell out of dodge as fast as possible and go spend it and have fun. That was my ethos. And so I did. Because all the crimes I did and all the violence I did.

And starting with my dad, when my mother died, we received a lot of love from her and everything like that. It's just too much for him. And when he gets angry now, he gets brutal. Like, he may have socked me. He may have choked me. He may have done all those things. Bebe with a bat. He wants us.

He's using the dead language. He could kill us or I could kill myself. But this is like, it's just a tough time for me to try and process the grief myself and beyond being brutalized. I don't believe I have a future. So there's nothing inside of me like, oh, I got to protect my future. I better get a job. I start, better start saving money for the future.

none of that. Because of trauma is so intense, you're only looking at surviving the next day in front of you. In fact, I'm not made for society. They have all these moralities, but they're too timid for me. I've seen past the curtain. Like, I become in my heart, like the little sociopath looking at like, you guys are falling for the okey doke. And I'm not the guy who falls for the okey doke. I'm the guy who stabs the oikidoke and says, get the hell out of my way. I'm not buying it, right? Once upon a time, Joe Lawyer couldn't handle his emotional shit. And so now I'm a criminal. I'm a bad guy.

Check out episodes 1264 and 1265 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.