The Jordan Harbinger Show - 1387: Romance in Rome Ends with Lien on Your Home | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

He took you to Italy, then billed you $21,000 for it. Do you sue him for fraud, or chalk it up as the priciest date ever? Welcome to Feedback Friday!And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in!Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1387On This Week's Feedback Friday:If Gabe's movie news isn't quite your bucket of popcorn, we'll give you the full Hollywood treatment and roll out the red carpet, and you can skip to the first question at 26 minutes and 30 seconds!You met a charming guy who works for a judge — set up by the police chief's wife — and he whisked you off to Italy. Back home, instead of a sweet text, came a $21,000 invoice, a small-claims loss, and a lien on your property. Is suing him for fraud worth the fight, or was this just the priciest date in history?You wrote in a while back about a rocky marriage and a spark with a woman from a conference in Indiana. Now the fuller picture emerges — explosive rages, extreme OCD, counseling flatly refused — and divorce papers sit with your attorney. How do you share a roof once she's served, and will moving out cost you custody?Recommendation of the Week: Isopure Protein Drink — a light, Gatorade-like alternative to milky shakes that packs 32 grams of protein, goes down easy mid-workout, and, unlike nearly every other protein drink, still tastes fine warm. Jordan found it after sampling the protein-spiked teas of Hong Kong.You're 45, married almost 20 years, with four kids and a warehouse career you helped grow from $1M to $40M. Then came the numbness, the lost names and dates, the flashes of temper — plus a layoff and open-heart surgery. Is this depression, early-onset dementia, or just midlife, and where do you even turn for help?Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]!Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger.Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi.And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: Factor: 50% off first box: factormeals.com/jordan50off, code JORDAN50OFFTushy: 10% off: hellotushy.com, code JORDAN10Xero: One month of Xero for free: xero.comChime: Open an account in two minutes: chime.com/jhsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. This summer, we spent an entire month in China with the kids, and it was an incredible experience. They attended summer camps, practiced their Mandarin Chinese, tried new foods, got to experience everyday life in another country. Meanwhile, our poor home was sitting here completely empty, and it made me think, while we're away having that experience, we could list our home on Airbnb and give another family the chance to experience our neighborhood like a local too. Our neighborhood is incredibly walkable.

You can head to the movie theater, grab coffee, stop it. What I would argue is the best boba shop anywhere. or choose between some fantastic Korean and Ethiopian restaurants, all without having to plan your entire day around getting in the car. A family staying in our home could settle in, explore the area, discover their own favorite spots, and get a real sense of the community rather than just passing through. Meanwhile, we could earn some extra income,

maybe help cover the kids' camps or at least a good part of the trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca.com slash host. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the vegan sorbetto to my tradition jolato, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, and during the week, we have long-formed conversations with a variety of amazing folks,

organized crime figures, war correspondence, neuroscientists, extreme athletes. This week, we had Sean Wisswesser, former CIA spy on the bungling KGB. Are they super spies or are they just kind of corrupt buffoons? or is it maybe a little bit of both. This was a fascinating look inside the KGB. Well, from the perspective of the CIA, of course. We also did a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on food deserts, which was quite surprising to sort of left-leaning Jessica and myself who'd heard of these

and just assumed it was a thing everybody agreed existed. Anyway, on Friday, as though we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and compare ourselves to various European desserts because we're both tasty international snacks, Gabe. Also, I'm in Italy. and the topic of gelato cuts coming up. So, yeah, you had to do it. You know, you had to do it. My backup option was the cream-colored V-Pesa to my matte black F-150,

but the one, I don't own an F-150, and the ice cream one seemed more app somehow. That's right. You drive a Tesla, so we're kidding. We both do, actually. The chow to my what-it-do, bro. Hello, show fam. It's Jace here. If Gabe's movie news isn't quite your box of popcorn,

we'll give you the full Hollywood treatment and roll out the red carpet and you can skip to the first question at 26 minutes and 30 seconds. Enjoy the show. So you're in Bergamo, huh? Yeah, I got here last night. I'm visiting some friends in the area and then I'm going up to the mountains tomorrow, which are supposed to be really beautiful. And then a week after next, oh, you're going to love this.

I'm doing a silent meditation retreat at a Benedictine Abbey near Lake Garda. Color me shocked. You know what? There is some irony to a podcaster doing a silent meditation retreat. I actually mentioned that on the... intake form, just so they could roll their eyes harder at me? Yeah, a podcaster doing silent meditation. That's like a hot dog eating champion celebrating Ramadan.

I'm not going to lie. I'm actually a little scared about this one. I think I'm more scared about this than when we went to North Korea. We were dumber then, but also, like, you know, you could be silenced there, but at least you can talk on the bus. Exactly. Like, we might throw you in prison and roast you over an open fire with a hook, but you're a lot of scream.

Yeah. You can, um, my friend Olivia Fox Caban is this, like, she's this author of the charisma myth. And she's just, she used to do these week long silent meditation retreats. And she's like, you got to do it. And I'm like, I can't think of anything more. I mean, maybe being stuck in a pipe or an elevator filling with water or like an underground cave that's flooding is scarier. But only by a little, I really don't want to be in a place where I have to stare at a wall not talking or looking at any input. That's just, no.

It's a nightmare for me. You can't talk at all? I don't think so unless there's an emergency or you need to ask the meditation teacher or something, but you just invented a whole other problem. It's not sitting and staring at the wall for 12 hours a day. Like, it's a beautiful place. I'm sure you can walk around. You just can't talk. But can you read a book? Can you write? I think so. I think so. I'm not totally clear on the rules. I know it's some silent meditations. You can't even do that. No reading, no writing. You just have to be with yourself. But I think at this one, you can. Anytime that I only have myself for company, it just sounds like a nightmare.

Now I understand my wife a lot better, but yet, no, I would never want to just be alone with myself. I can't think of anybody I'd rather be with less than myself. If only they had a practice for coming to terms with that, what does it call? Meditation. How long is this thing again? Four and a half days. Oh, just four and a half. Oh, my God, no.

Vipassana retreats are 10 days, I believe. So this feels doable. Youvall, Noah Harari, he does like a month a year or two months a year silent. And when he told me, I just had this visceral stomachache reaction. And I was like, wow, I'd rather do those body modifications you see on Reddit. You know what I'm talking about. And your goal is what? Do you have one or is just like a cool thing to try?

I want to learn more about meditation. I'm very inconsistent with it. And this teacher is apparently very good. I guess I'm just curious, like, what is it like to be in silence all day for four days in a benedictine monastery in Italy? It just sounds cool. Yeah, there's a horror movie somewhere in there. You mean the horror movie of being stuck with yourself for four and a half days? Yeah. No, but the setting as well, right? It's like a quiet place except the aliens or the monks trying to make you happy. Yes. I've also had some experience. You ever seen back rooms? Have you seen that movie yet? Have you talked about this? I haven't seen that. No, yeah, we talked about it, but I haven't seen it.

That's what I imagine it's like in there, just with myself alone, just backroom. I've also had some experiences with silence that were really cool. Like when I did yoga teacher training last year, they had this rule that you couldn't talk during the meals. And I found it really interesting because it ended up being a mix of incredibly awkward and also kind of profound. And you realize how much talking covers up your awareness of some obviously very important things, right? Like your thoughts and your mood and the sound of nature, whatever, even your appreciation for the moments when you can talk. And I love that. So I guess, yeah, I guess I want to go more deep. people into that. Yeah, that's probably why I talk so much and even do it for a living. I don't want to

hear any of those things. My internal voice? No, thank you. Quite annoying. Yeah, no, it's, I'm mostly kidding, but I think I would still, I still think I'd go out of my skull. Going out of your skull as part of it, I think, but I'll report back and I'll give you, I'll give you the post game wrap up and we'll talk. Yeah, I'm so curious. I need a little field report after a lot of people, my friends have done these silent retreats and they're always like, oh, it was hard, yeah, and they never really want to talk about it. Probably, maybe it's hard to articulate. I'll try. Yeah. It would be funny if that episode. were just an hour and a half of feedback Friday,

but it's just silence. Yeah, well, you know what? My production costs would be lower, so I'm okay with that. Our listeners can't hear the letter. The only thing they hear is six minutes of silence and then me going, well, I'm sorry to hear that your mother-in-law

is still your dog and ran away to Mexico. So they can still play the drinking game. That's right. And then more silence, and then you roasting me for something that they don't understand. And silence, and then some dark Jordan pitches,

and then the ad breaks. There was an episode I did years ago where for some reason my audio just didn't work. And it makes sense because she was like, can you repeat that? And I was like, this lady needs hearing aids. And she had a producer who just didn't tell me that I was unintelligible the whole time. So it was unerable.

And Jace is like, you're going to hate this idea. But the way to do it is you listen to what you said. You try to reconstruct it as best you can. And you just re-record that thing for the whole show. So the entire show was pickups of me listening to like, and then I would go, Oh, wow, that's really interesting. Just to record, and he took all of those and manually inserted them. I'm not doing that.

No. Sorry. If you take a vow of silence because of this nonsense, we are going to have words. One-sided words. Well, you'll have words. I'll just nod along and be very happy. Before we kick off here, Gabe, I wanted to thoroughly embarrass you and ask you about the big announcement last week.

Yeah. Crazy. It's a crazy thing. Yeah. Okay. So you're driving from Barcelona to some seaside town or whatever, and we're trying to chaotically coordinate a recording. And then all of a sudden I see this article saying that one of your movies otherwise engaged

is happening next year. And it's like, okay. Might be happening. There's a lot that needs to happen for this to happen. Sure. But some of the things that apparently happened ish in the movie business, it's Hallie Berry, Zoe Kravitz, Colin Firth. So like not too shabby, right?

Bananas. And Jack Whitehall. Right. Amazing comedian. So crazy. Yeah. No big deal. Just kind of a movie dream team.

of award-winning actors. It's a mix of things, but mostly it just feels surreal. I know that's so cliche, but that's the only word I can come up with after everything that's happened. It's just weird to see that in print. But it's been freaking years. And you give me little updates about this script for, I don't know, as long as I can remember, like a decade or something here and there. No, no, no. This is a later one.

You're thinking of the other one. Yeah, which is the reason this is happening, which we can talk about. But yeah, I know what you're talking about. This one is like five, six years ago. Oh, only. Okay. So half a decade ago and change. But you didn't mention it for a while, so I don't know.

I just kind of assumed it does what most movies do, which is like sit in a go nowhere. Go nowhere. Yeah. Yeah, well, given what happened in 2020, I learned not to get too attached to these things. You just never know. Like I said, I still don't know. Nothing is real until you're on set. Even then someone, I don't know, could die or the studio just runs out of money or a global

pandemic happens and filming never starts. Thank you for bringing that up. You're welcome. Yes. So this news was exciting, but I'm also like, okay, you know, like, We had to get to this point, and it's a huge point, but there's still a long road ahead and nothing is guaranteed, so we'll see. That's the stance I'm taking. Cool, and we'll see. Okay, I suppose that's the only way to be part of the circus and not go insane. Yeah, I think so.

It's new for me, though, a few years ago, you remember, it was just like a constant roller coaster, up down, up down, great news, cool, this person's interested, it's all worth it. Bad news, they've changed their mind, this person won't read, what's even the point, why am I doing this? And, yeah, I have a very different lens on it now, and I have to say, Doing Feedback Friday has been a huge part of that for me, just being able to be part of this thing that is intimate and immediate and hours. It's not like depending on all these people to give us permission or money or time or anything. And getting to talk about problems and questions that are real has saved me. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that and that makes me happy. I imagine travel has also helped.

Massively. It really puts things into perspective, I suppose. I'd say with travel, the canvas got a lot bigger. And my relationship with the industry changed a lot for a lot of reasons, but one of them was not just living in L.A. and being so attached to it. But, you know, things falling apart and having my heartbroken many times, that's kind of the reason this movie is happening. So that's interesting. I think I know what you mean. I think a lot of people don't really know what went down. And most people if they even heard in the first place have forgotten by now. So, okay, this is a long and very weird story. I'm going to compress it. March 2020, a script I wrote called Give or Take went into production. That's the one you were just thinking of Jordan.

Right. Huge actor in the lead role, big budget, my first movie that was going to get made. And then this thing called COVID happens. And literally 24 hours before I'm supposed to fly to Montreal to join the team and start prep, the studio says, really sorry, but we have to shut the movie down. Oh, that's, I know. That's so, it's like a death in the family. It was a massive blow.

But honestly, I don't remember being super worked up about it at the time because it was completely out of our hands. No one did this to us. It was just this huge thing. Everybody was dealing with it, so there's nothing to do. But I also thought, like, oh, it's fine. This is only going to last a couple of months. You know, tops. The news always overplays these things. This is just, remember bird flu? No one cares about bird flu. Like, this is fine. We'll be back in prep by the summer is kind of what I thought, which, yeah, not true at all. Man, I don't remember that part of the story that COVID played a role. I guess I, well, I wish I'd had known that for I interviewed, Dr. Fauci could have been nice. There are a few things I would have loved for you to ask him. Do you know what you did to my friend's career? Yeah, exactly. What do you hate romantic comedies? You hate Joy Fauci? Anyway, a couple months later, the actor drops out of the project, and then the studio lets the project go. And it basically dies for several years. It's still kind of somewhere in between life and death, unclear. Yeah, this part I remember. So this is like a career-making thing because of the people that were attached to it, which we can't mention, I guess. And then she bounced and ruined your life. Yes and no, because right around that time, you asked me if I wanted to come be your producer on Feedback Friday. Right. I was like, oh, this pathetic character. I really need to do something for him. Yeah. No, I got you in the depths of your despair. Very deliberate on my part. I was like, you know what's going to be really cheap? Somebody who is desperate and purposeless. Do I know any screenwriters in Hollywood right now? Well played, dude. You bought at the bottom of the market. That's how I'd put it. That's right. It's like crypto. It's called psychology. It's called strategy. Should try it out sometime. I accepted gratefully because honestly, I needed a job now that I wasn't going to be a successful.

screenwriter, and I also thought it would be cool to learn about podcasting. Yeah, that's where all the money is. That's it clearly. Honestly, for me, probably what? That was more true. Well, yeah, but I just had no idea it would blossom into this amazing thing. Well, that's how that started. Isn't that wild? It's so funny. And by the way, I'm kidding. Podcasting is the worst way to make money, statistics. You are, you actually are more likely to become a famous something in Hollywood that you are to have a good podcast. I've run the numbers. It's actually, that's actually true. We should look at them together one day because I have, I don't know if that's still true in this environment. It might not still be true, but basically there's way more people starting podcasts and there's way less of them actually making enough money to break even versus people making money in the movie industry.

And I don't mean famous actors, though. I mean, I guess you'd have to count like somebody who does prop and set design is actually making a living doing it. You know, it's going to be somebody like that. You have to throw those numbers in there. I had AI do this. So it was the laziest calculation ever. Okay. And it was, did it say to you, this is getting a little sweaty. This is a little un-PC. Yeah. Like, well, you should really, some people don't care about money, Jordan. You should count their joy as being successful. And I was like, look, chat, no. I want people who can pay their rent. Thanks. Anyway.

Anyway, a month or two after that in the middle of the lockdown, my friend and my collaborator, Suzanne, the person I developed, give or take with the other movie, I texted her one day, like, I just can't, I cannot sit around being mad at she who must not be named. and bored out of my mind. I want to do something. Like, let's make good use of this time. As you put out a cigarette and do her a headshot of her on the wall. That's right. Yeah. While I hurl kombucha bottles at the TV playing her S.A. Lodder commercial. Exactly. So I had this idea for romantic comedy. Basically, the idea was what would happen if a young couple got engaged? And then the guy's dad, who's this disgraced, like, white-collar criminal, you know, like a small-time Bernie made off, but funny. That guy gets out of prison early and shows up

out of the blue, and he has nowhere to stay, so he has to crash with them. And then the father meets the girl's mother, and they hit it off, and then they start dating. And so basically, the parents' relationship creates all these problems for the kids and basically turns their dream wedding into a nightmare. Wow. Okay. Well, solid idea. I can see it. I'm glad. That's rather the idea. So we got to work, went through many, many versions of the movie, just countless drafts. And we kept working on it up until a few months ago, really, and yeah, here we are. The other great thing that came out of the pandemic and this movie start crushing my dream was I wouldn't have made my short film if that hadn't happened because I was waiting for years and

years on other people to make one of my movies. So I could just finally have that experience of producing something and I would learn from them and then the horizon just kept receding in front of me like and it would not happen. So I realized that other project was going to take a while to get made if it ever got made and I just got to the point where I was like, fuck this, I'm doing it myself. I've written something cool that I care about. I'm going to put my own money into this. I'm going to ask for help and put together a team,

and I'm going to give myself this production experience that I've been waiting for other people to give me. And that was one of the best things I've ever done. Kind of changed my whole lens on filmmaking and storytelling and how to run a team and really on life in general, I would say. I love that. Yeah, this is, well, something I learned early on. You can't sit around waiting for people to do stuff for you.

You just got to do it. Charlotte, Me and the God kind of calls this putting yourself on because, you know, he was a radio DJ, so people would send him their tracks put me on, put me on. He's like, you've got to put yourself on in life. Oh, you got to put yourself on. Damn, that slaps. Yeah. You know what that reminds? It does, yeah. There's this great screenwriter named Terry Rossio. He was one of the writers on Aladdin and the first pirates of the Caribbean, among many other movies. And he wrote this essay I love called Never Wait, which is basically this exhortation to break the poisonous habit of waiting in life. Yeah, that's a hard one to rewrite. I think it's the Charlemagne idea. But yeah, his whole thing is like,

Like, never wait in the small picture. He gives this example of being stuck on hold on the phone. Like, you call your bank and they put you on hold. And he's like, don't just sit there. Make a list of 10 people you haven't spoken to in a long time. And you'll be annoyed when the customer service rep finally picks up because they interrupted you while you were doing this. You weren't waiting. You were doing something.

Bro's been practicing six minute networking since I was singing Disney movies in my living room. That's right. Literally. Yeah. Six minute networking.com. Just saying, if the guy who invented Captain Jack Sparrow believes in it, it works. Just shamelessly piggybacking on this guy you don't know his wisdom. I love it. Coatail writing, baby. To push a 100% free course that requires no credit card, yes, hey, Hollywood's

got to work for somebody. Might as well be me. But he also means this in the big picture, waiting on people's approval, waiting on their permission, waiting to be in the right mood for something, perfect conditions. In the essay, he calls waiting a tiny little bundle of death. A tiny little bundle of death that hits. That sounds like one of those Buddhist things. That's like, isn't that what the French call an orgasm? This is so often we're going to have to edit this out of Enron. Very different. You're thinking of la petimo. Yeah, the little death. The little death. Okay, I'm not that far off. Tiny bundle of death. Yeah, you're correct. Come on. French orgasms and waiting for Hollywood to give you a shot are very closely related. Yeah, yes.

But this is how I was in a lot of ways for a very long time. I was just waiting. And a lot of screenwriters are like that because you're so disempowered by the system and you're lost and you're at the whim of these absurd forces, whether it's whether a movie star wants to stick around or an executive wants to take a chance on your script or whatever the market, it was just terrible. And so I read that essay and this whole giving up waiting as a state of mind thing planted a seed in me. It also kind of chimed with a lot of books I was reading at the time, spiritual texts like Charlotte Beck, Abraham Ibn Ezra, Eckartole, but it took me a while to really put it into practice, especially in my career. So I completely agree with this. That's kind of how I am too. Just keep plowing.

ahead, whatever happens around me, steal little moments here and there to respond to text or knock out some show prep, whatever I've got to do. It's amazing what you can get done when you do that, but I like the larger concept a lot, which is never wait in the cosmic sense either, man. No, it's so true. I just found the essay. By the way, there's the section I had highlighted the last time I read it. He writes, life is short. You think you know it, but you don't act like you know it. And since you don't act like you know it, it means you in fact don't know it. Because if you did know it, you would go ahead and act like you knew it. Yeah, you know what's funny.

I think about this kind of stuff all the time. So first of all, facts, this guy's not messing around, but that's so correct. Like, life is short. Oh, yeah, no, I know. I live that. Do you? Because you are spending a lot of time playing Candy Crush

or, you know, ignoring your family or whatever. So especially when you have little kids, people are like, it goes by fast. Don't mess this up. And you're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I really got to do this thing. And like, that's why this is a tangent. But, like, that's why I'm not writing a book right now.

And my agent hates me for it. Because she's like, no, no, no, we can have a ghostwriter do this and it's minimal time. And then I talked to people like Mark Manson and Ryan Holiday and they're like, no, they're lying to you. They just want you to make them money. This is a really big, big project. Yeah. So how much life do you want to give up for that? Right.

And I'm like, zero life because I already don't have enough Lego time with my kids. I already don't have enough swing my daughter around in the living room time. And like the idea of spending it on Zoom calls with ghost writers and even if you and I write it, No offense, but the idea of spending Lego time on a Zoom call with you while you're like yawning because you're in a different time zone, no thank you. This shit can wait. So maybe I do know it a little and I act like I know it a little. But yeah, you're right. Nobody knows it, knows it, until they're like 80 and they go, where did the time go? I blinked and I was 80. And then you're like, oh God, don't blink. Anyway, the guy's not messing around.

Never wait. Yeah. I guess all that to say, that's what we were doing by writing that script after being stuck at home and getting our hearts broken. We're just like, we're not going to wait. that movie star who dropped out. She's basically your guru. She set you up for this massive fall, and she's like, you're welcome. I think so in a way. Now you don't need to go to some dumbass silent meditation for treats. Save you four days and a lot of boredom. You're welcome. I love that. But you're not wrong. I mean, it's funny now. Okay, there was a time when I was like very frustrated and upset at this person. I don't even know. But now I can't help but kind of love her. I mean, it's complicated, obviously. But she ruined so many people's lives by deciding to drop

out of this project, and I would not have it any other way now. And it's not just because of the article. I've been feeling this way for the last couple of years. In fact, it's a little scary to think about what would have happened if that movie had gone forward. And I didn't have another piece of material under my belt, some experience directing, feedback Friday, travel, all these things. It actually, in a weird way, might have been the worst outcome. Yeah, you could have been rich and famous by now. That would have been terrible. Terrible. Awful. I wouldn't have to be sitting or talking about it. Yeah, in a youth hostel. It's what I, yeah, I know.

It's not incredible that I'd rather have that than have that movie. Yeah, that is incredible. And a lot of people are like, nice copium. What flavor is that? But I've talked about my business breakup a ton and I'm like, no, people are like, it's going to be the best thing that's ever happened to you and I wanted to punch them in the face. Now I'm like, no, no, no, no, you were right.

Now I wish it happened earlier. I wish it happened five years before, but then I wouldn't have paid attention, right? I had to be at the end of my dang rope and then had it happen. I needed to be fully backed into a corner in order to last. out and have the energy to do what I needed to do. Totally. That's really what it was. That's exactly right.

You're bringing up such an interesting question. Is meaning making and appreciation just another coping strategy? Maybe you could say that. But it feels categorically different. Like I don't think you're coping with the loss by saying, well, it's really great because I start my own business. You're like, no, no, no, this is really the better path, but I had to go through all of that. That perspective is real.

It's not just a way of like feeling okay about difficult facts. That's how I feel. So much so, in fact, that in the special thing. in the credits of my short, I mentioned all these people, right? My friends, family, people who helped make the movie happen. And then I was like, you know, I got to put she who must not be named in the special thanks. I have to do it. Because without her, this wouldn't have happened. So in the credits of my movie, it's like my sister, my colleagues who gave me notes. You know who's in our special things? Our friend TD, the police officer who consulted on the script

for me because he helped with some of the cop stuff. And then it's like one of the most famous people on the planet. They're like, people are going to be like, not that one, though. That must be a different person with the same name. Oh, making dinner reservations for her must be so funny. No, but does she know about this? I doubt it. Yeah, well, she gets an IMDB alert.

Like, what is this movie? I'm not in this movie. Delete. Oh, I could have been in it, but I blew it. No. This is my short film, you understand. Not the movie that she dropped out of. Who cares?

She's going to be upset. She is in the movie, though. You're in every frame, girl, if you're listening to this, which you're not. Thank you for ruining my life. Maybe she listens to this. podcast. Who knows? That would be incredible. I figure plenty of A-Las celebrities are super bored and have nothing to do. She's in her Malibu Beach House as it sinks into the ground. Like, yeah, he really does need to talk to his mother-in-law. It's these two pedestrian idiots that really keep my life on track.

She doesn't even realize that I'm the guy who wrote the movie. Yeah. Yeah, well, I really do feel this way. I'm thankful to her for ruining my life as a, as it was then, so I could invent a better one. Yep. Everything falls apart. You end up doing all these other things, including the show. Dot, dot, dot, now this movie's finally happening. Yeah. Well, like I said, it's a big step, getting the cast, they're still a long road ahead. The sales company is taking it out to buyers now, so we'll see what the response is. I don't really know, and I'm not involved in that part, but then you still have to set it up, and there will be more development on the script, and casting conversations and budget conversations and all the production stuff. So I'm not just saying this. Like, I really am not getting

ahead of myself, because I've seen this movie before. I'm prepared for anything. I hear that. I suppose that's wise. If it happens, it'll be amazing. And if it doesn't happen, I'll be okay. Yeah. It's funny because I remember when your whole mood and your whole identity dependent on this happening, and it's kind of wild to see you take this stance now, like, me, okay. It was funny for me as well to get the news in Barcelona, which was the last place I expected to see an article about something I wrote come out and be like, oh, cool. This is exciting in the sense that it's really cool to see these amazing artists come on board, but I'm not like losing my shit, reconsidering everything. Like, okay, done with the nomadic better move back to LA. Like, no, I much prefer it this way. Also, I know I keep saying this, but I

really, it's like, I love feedback Friday. Like, I love what we get to do here. And I love traveling. And that helps put the industry stuff in the right place in my mind. It's wild how that happens. And it's also a great Feedback Friday theme, I think. I'm trying to figure out what lessons to take away from the story. There are a few in there. Well, never wait, I think is one of them. There's never wait. There's the worst thing that can happen to you can easily become the best thing. Often does, I think. I believe that wholeheartedly. But then if you hadn't done stuff, written another script, directed a short, jumped into Feedback Friday, these things wouldn't have happened. So it's not just about acceptance and

surrender and letting go. It's about what you do after those setbacks and what you do with them. For sure. No, you're right. Which again, I guess that's another version of never wait. Yeah, never flipping wait. Amen. All right. I also have to say, I do hesitate to like gloat about this and draw all these big life lessons because, like I said, truly have no idea where this is going, anything could happen, et cetera, et cetera. Also, there's a huge element of luck in all of this, huge. So I don't think it's as simple as well. If you just do these things, one day you will be successful because this could have easily gone a different way for me and still could. I hear that and I appreciate that, but still,

that luck could not have kicked in without the work. So there's that. That's true. That I definitely agree with. I've shared this before, hard work, consistent work. It just increases your surface area for good things to happen for luck to play a bigger role. Yes, well put. There's like an ancient Greek quote, right? It's something fortune favors the prepared. I mean, that's that whole concept. Maybe that's the real takeaway. There's no substitute for the work. I know it's far from a done deal, but there's something to be said for celebrating the wins as they come. And this is a win, man. Congrats. Thank you. Thanks, man. I know you're all jaded now, Hollywood. Maybe not entirely in a bad way, so I get why you're not getting ahead of yourself. But, man, seeing a script you wrote, move forward at the level

where they're actually making a movie with A-list celebrities. It's a big accomplishment. Congrats to you and Suzanne. Thank you, dude. That's very sweet. So we start the show? Probably. Probably.

With an actual nightmare that is actually happening to somebody who actually exists. You know what else you should never wait for? The deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Factor. I already have enough on my hands without turning dinner into another hour-long task, so the choice is easy. Do I want to spend 30 minutes cooking?

or play RC cars with Jaden. Do I want to wash dishes or go on a walk with my family? Our time is limited. I know what I'd rather be doing. Factor makes chef-crafted dietitian design meals that give me real food without all the work. They're ready in two minutes with no prep and no cleanups, so eating well is still manageable even when the day gets out of control. And with more than 100 nutrient-dense menu items every week,

including salmon burgers, smoky good a chicken, which is one of my favorites, protein shakes, cold-pressed juices, even pumpkin-flavored cheesecake. There's always something different to try. Factor makes it easy to have a healthy, delicious dinner, and get back to the people and things that matter. We keep Factor in our regular rotation, and you should try it out too. Let's eat real. Head to FactorMeals.com.

S. Jordan 50 off. And use code Jordan 50 off to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until October 31, 2026. That's code Jordan 50 off at Factor Meals.com. See website for more details. This episode is also sponsored by Tushy. Let's get to the bottom of something. If you got peanut butter on your arm, would you wipe it with dry,

paper and then think that it's clean. No, you'd use some water. Yet when it comes to our butts, we've somehow decided dry toilet paper is good enough. I've been a bidet connoisseur since Jen and I discovered the wonders of butt washing on a trip to China more than a decade ago. She dared me to try one. I accepted. That's not totally true. She actually pushed the button without my permission. Anyway, my bathroom standards changed immediately. Once I felt the difference, there was no returning to the stone age of endless wiping in the raw, irritated aftermath. That comes with it. Yeah, just soak it in people. Get the visual. Tushy uses water to leave you feeling cleaner and fresher without turning every bathroom visit into an archaeological dig.

It attaches to your existing toilet without adding plumbing and installation takes literally like 10 minutes. That's a small investment for a lifetime of giving your butt the basic dignity that it deserves. I'm also using way less toilet paper, which means spending less money on a product that was never particularly good at this job anyways. And the bottom line is Tushy is a simple bathroom upgrade that you'll appreciate every day or maybe every other day, no judgment, but you sure try to appreciate it every day. I use it and now I dare you to try it too. Again, don't settle for a subpar bathroom routine. For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use code Jordan 10 at checkout.

That's 10% off your first bidet order at helloitishy.com with promo code Jordan 10. Don't half-ass you're clean. All right, back to the show. Fun ones, dozies. Let's dive in Gabe. What is the first thing out of the mailbag? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I recently met a guy through a mutual friend of ours who was the chief of police's wife. I trusted them and they set me in the sky up after a charity event that we attended. He works for a judge in Stockton, California.

Sometime later, he invited me on a trip to Italy. I was between jobs, so it worked out nicely. Before the trip, he asked me my budget. I said $3,000 thinking that was plenty for a romantic getaway. He said he'd plan everything and we'd quote unquote figure it out later. In hindsight, that phrase should have been my red flag. But I was too busy packing cute outfits and imagining us kissing under the Tuscan sun. Meanwhile, he booked everything. The trip was magical. Gelado, sunsets, cobblestone streets. I thought I was in a rom-com. That gay rode and never got made. But I added that. But when we got home, instead of a suite, had a great time text. He sent me an official invoice from his company for $21,000. Turns out, I was actually in a financial horror film.

Wait, this is so insane. What a weirdo. Bananas. I know we're about to get into all this. I'm just blown away again by how bizarre and brazen and frankly bat shit crazy this move is. Like, oh, yeah, the date was fun. Here's your info. Like, what happened on this trip?

I thought it was a typo. I thought maybe he added an extra zero by accident. I thought maybe he meant Lira. But no. He meant 21,000 American dollars for a trip to which I told him I could continue. tribute three. I stared at the invoice, dumbfounded. It states meals, hotel stays, car rental, and shopping. Bro kept receipts. So this was planned. Wow. So he built her for the Pujo they rented to visit a vineyard and he also built them for like candlelit dinners in Rome. That is

terrible. Yeah, dude probably built her for the seven Pellegrinos they bought it at a bodega too. What a low life this guy is. I genuinely believed I was dating this man. Not talking, not vibing, not maybe. No, this man was pursuing me like he was trying to win a trophy. There was never any documentation before the trip, no contract, invoice, estimate, reimbursement agreement, or other document. I didn't sign or verbally agree to anything. He made me believe that this was a personal trip and I never agreed to any of the additional expenses. These conversations took place over Apple messages and WhatsApp, but he later deleted them. Well, that's suss as hell, okay? Yeah.

And there is no business relationship between me and his company. So I disputed the invoice in writing via email. But he was out of town and we never spoke after that. I tried to pay what I could, but unless I suddenly became a Kardashian, there was no universe where I could casually drop $21,000 on a vacation. I didn't even know I was being billed for. I paid him $7,000 because I felt obligated to pay since I did some shopping. And I told him that I would pay him back $5,000. once I received my commission check. Oh, no. Okay, I want to get clear on this. So she disputes the invoice by email. They never spoke afterward, but then she did pay him seven and then told him she'd pay another five. Correct. Because in her mind, she did some shopping, but I'm guessing it wasn't 12 grand worth of shopping. I guess I shouldn't assume that, but I'm guessing it's like $5002,000 max given her budget.

This is really unfortunate. Ugh. Yeah. But then, because apparently this man loves drama, he sued me in small claims court in San Joaquin County, California. After subtracting my payments, the remaining balance fell under the $12,500 limit for small claims court. I appeared and defended myself. I put together a book of evidence, but the judge never saw it. The guy I thought I was dating, one. Now he has a lien on my property, a lien from a romantic trip. Oh my God. I'm infuriating. My God. How did this happen? How did a judge hear this story

and not look at her documentation that clearly shows there was zero contract, written or oral, and rule in his favor. I mean, I'm getting, I have some ideas, but I do wonder if paying him what she paid him in the judge's eyes basically established that they had a contract and she owed him the money. That's the only thing I can think of. Like, you basically acknowledge the debt when you do that. I appealed the decision and lost. He had an attorney present. Yeah, that's the problem with going pro se, no attorney. A lot of times you don't have a choice in small claims court, but if you have a choice, you'd need to, you can't bring a knife to a gunfight. But he had an attorney present, so it was one of those states where you can do that.

Yeah, and she was like, well, I can't, I don't want to do that or I can't afford one, but now you have a lien on your property and you have to pay. So it's really, legal advice is expensive, but not having it is way more expensive. The deadline to appeal or otherwise challenge the judgment has passed. I'm talking to an attorney soon to see what next steps to take. At this point, I'm considering suing him for fraud and misrepresentation because I'm pretty sure romantic vacation should not secretly mean surprise business transaction with a side of property seizure. What is the psychology behind this? Is this the kind of case where pursuing legal action

makes sense? Or should I just accept that I accidentally went on the most expensive date in modern history? Signed feeling like a sap and wondering whether to clap back. After this manipulative scab, straight up stuck me with the tab. This is awful and gross and quite baffling, honestly, Before we dive into this, I have so many questions about this. Same. Let's get into it. Is this guy as straight up professional scammer, and this is just what he does? He invites women on fancy vacations and then sticks them with the bill.

Or did he actually want to take her on this trip? And then something weird happened that she either isn't telling us or isn't maybe more likely, is not aware of. Like he didn't end up liking her or that, but or something happened on that. Did she reject him super hard or his feelings changed? Not that that excuses any of this. But then when they got home, he's just like, I don't want to have to pay for that. I'm going to make her pay. I'm super mad about it.

My ego hurts. I don't know. What's going on here? Somehow that feels more probable to me, but that is still so despicable and weird. Just it's different from an intentional scam from the start, but still bizarre. Agree, because what I don't understand is if this was a scam from the jump, it's an incredibly crappy inefficient scam. Totally.

You've got to fly to another country. You've got to spend all this money on yourself. You've got to burn potentially a relationship you have back in California because now the police chief and his wife are going to hear about it. They're probably not going to want to introduce you to anybody again. They're going to be like, well, there's two sides to every story, but wow, that's pretty bad. And then you spend all this money in yourself, and then you try to collect it later, and most people are going to be like, no way. And then you've got to sue them, and then you've got to win, and then you've got to get a lien, and then you have to wait for your money.

I mean, you might have to wait, you'd have to wait months or years to see that money. And then having to do this to multiple women when you have a normal job, okay, so then you don't have a normal job and you just go on vacation, all that. I mean, it just does not make sense. I'm trying to imagine all the scenarios here. It's like such a crap scam. It's terrible. If he's not a professional romance scammer, that would help explain why he's friends with the chief of police and his wife

and attends charity events and stuff. Like, he's not a total scumbag. Maybe, I don't know. Well, or he's really good at being a con man, but then the con itself is not lucrative and totally sucks. So I don't know about that either, right? So that's interesting. I think the first lesson to appreciate there is that,

trust transferred through a respected person is borrowed trust, but it is not the same thing as evidence. Meaning just because this guy's friends with the chief of police doesn't make him a good person or a trustworthy person. No. In fact, shady people do this all the time. Oh, I'm friends at the mayor. I sit on the board of this charity. I post photos on Instagram with the chief of police. Cool. That's a fig leaf. It gives them social currency. I mean, wasn't that basically Jeffrey Epstein's playbook? He was on charities. He donated. He hung out with all these people. How could this guy possibly he's doing all this evil stuff if he's friends with all these amazing people. Now we're like, oh, the billionaires are gross too. In the end, it means very little, perhaps nothing other than

the person's ability to politic and move in certain circles and donate money or something. I don't know. It's so true. It's a great point, which sadly people like this can do extremely well. Yeah, it's just important to remember. You've got to do your own research. I hate that phrase, but you've got to know people on your own. Even the chief of police can make a mistake or just be in the dark. I mean, yeah, I met him through my wife and he donated to her cause and he seemed nice. The end, right? That's all the vetting they did for this guy probably. There's a third possibility, which is that he's not a professional romance scammer, but he did plan to do this the whole time.

It's true. It's just a weird thing to want to do one time. But I guess it's possible for a person like this to conceive of that idea. Some combination of antisocial tendencies and narcissism and entitlement and a failure to empathize with other people, and I have to assume a fundamental inability to relate normally to other people and feel you're deserving of real relationships and real experiences, or just the naked self-interest of a criminal or shady person, that's got to be the psychology behind this.

I mean, at some point, it's kind of a mystery, isn't it? Like, how do you reduce the psychology of something like this? Something this bizarre? I don't know. I'm sure something awful happened to this guy when he was a kid, or he was just born weird and his brain is broken. I don't know. Reduced gray matter in the prefrontal cortex

or wherever that psychopathy, antisocial, whatever stuff resides. Yeah, famously the best predictor of whether you're going to stick a woman you met at a gala with all of your Ryan Air flights. That's what I mean. Yeah, it's science. It's neuroscience. And you know he upgraded them to enhanced economy or whatever Ryanair calls the premium tier. Flexi plus, actually. Right. The only thing flexi about Ryanair is whether your plane's going to land on time. Whether it will land at all, really. It's all up in the air, literally. It's a coin toss with Ryanair. You save 70 euros, but you might not make it to whatever the second tier airport in Prague is called.

That's right. That's their model. I just flew them from Barcelona to Bergamone. It was actually fine, but it does kind of redefine bare bones. It's not easy. feel like Ryanair is a great deal if you travel with only like a middle school or backpack. You don't care if the plane's delayed and you don't mind sitting in a middle seat with no beverage service. It's kind of like, well, it's faster than the train. That's right. And you don't mind paying to use the bathroom or you're just like, oh, I'll hold it. That's right. Ryanair wanted to charge passengers to use the bathroom. Wasn't that them? They did the whole thing about that? I think it was just like an internal discussion of can we do this, but they never did it. I feel like, that's just

asking for terrible PR. You know, someone's going to crap themselves in the seat and be like, I didn't have a coin to go to the bathroom. That's right. cost you more to implement the revenue stream than to just forego the money. Dude, the seats on Ryanair are the most uncomfortable seats I think I've ever sat in. It felt like I was being wheeled around on a dolly for two hours. That's how I can describe it. That's the business model exactly. You get what you pay for.

I remember meeting Ryanair pilots in places like Odessa, Ukraine, where you're just like, hey, what are you doing? And they're like, we travel. We're pilots. You travel around the world. And they're like, we work for Ryanair. And I remember being like, wow, that's such a good gig. But they were like 25.

You know, like these are not guys that were going to get a job with American. They were getting their hours on Ryanair so they could get a job with like another national airline. Interesting. I will say, though, it was the most streamlined check-in and backdrop service I've ever had. I guess that's because it's automated and self-checking. But it was like usually you have to stand there for a while and it's annoying. You have to get there. Like, I was 10 minutes and I was at the security line.

But also, I was so tired when I got to the airport because it was 6 in the morning. I barely slept the night before. I kind of lost track of time. lounge and suddenly I looked at my time and I was like oh my god I'm super late like I just got confused about the time so I ran to the gate but they had closed the door which is like oh that feeling is so terrible and I the last time I missed a flight was probably like 12 15 years ago but they opened it for me they called the plane like yeah he's here an extra heavy bag and underneath so like and I they opened the door and I got on just in time which is really cool of them not a lot of airlines would do

that so thank you Ryanair that is very true definitely a point in Ryanair's favor I didn't even know they were allowed to do that. Me too. It wasn't the door of the plane itself. It was like the boarding gate. The jetway door? The jetway door. Okay.

But Gabe, what are we even talking about? This guy probably flew our friend here business class on KLM being like, it's not my money. Whatever. That's right. He's like,

I'm going to invoice her for the champagne and warm towels. Not my problem. The dude does not strike me as a Ryan. I really want to impress and woo her. By the way, you might want to bring your own pillow to sit on because the seat has no padding. Anyway,

all that to say, I'm so very sorry this happened to you, my friend. Take that shot, everyone. We've taken a lot of letters over the years from victims of scams of all kinds. And I don't know, man, the feelings a scammer leaves you with. Confusion and embarrassment, sadness, and the impotent rage is often the worst part. More than the money, which is significant, especially in this case, being conned or just manipulated like this, God, it's got to be a terrible feeling.

It's so unsettling and hurtful. It's just so maddening. Yeah. Then you have to go to court and face this person for this amount of money on top of all that. And then lose? And then I have to hire a lawyer to fight back. That's a low-key nightmare. It is.

When any normal person who gets asked to go on a romantic trip to Italy would just go, yeah, yeah, sure, sounds great. Well, yeah, Google spreadsheet, fine, I'll Venmo you at the airport later, whatever. That's what I was thinking. This is what I would do. I could have easily been in our friend here's shoes. I would never in a million years see a scam like this coming. No, same.

And I mean, as a man, no woman has ever invited me on a vacation and put everything out of her card. But if she did for some reason and that invitation is open, well, actually, Jen might not appreciate that. And look, if I assumed we were dating, no part of me would be like, oh, I better get this and write. I better screenshot those conversations we've been having. She might drag me to small claims court in a few months if I don't put out. I just hate that you're going through all this, and I'm very sorry. Based on the facts, it's possible that you're out of moves here and you just need to pay this a-hole and move on. But given what he's pulled, if I were in your shoes, I think it would

have to hit back at this guy however I could. I just don't see how you could take this lying down. Let a financial predator get away with something like this. The idea of sending him another 12 grand makes my blood boil. He should be happy he got seven grand out of you. But I don't know exactly what legal options are available to you at this point. That's a question for the attorney you meet with. Maybe you sue him. That's a civil matter. Maybe you do file a police report to make it a criminal matter or attempt to. Maybe both. Or maybe the lawyer's going to tell you, yeah, procedurally, you're out of moves. You miss the window. You let this deadline lapse. I'm sorry. This is mostly over. The thing is, I hear a few potential crimes in all this, depending on the full facts, of course.

and a good lawyer would have to prove these things. There's fraud and or theft, depending on whether this guy obtained your property, including money, through deception, rather than merely obtaining a judgment against you. There's forgery or use of a false document if, of course, the invoice or supporting records are fabricated or altered or falsely authenticated and so on,

but it sounds like he might actually have a company. So maybe that doesn't apply, but you can't just have a company and make false documents either. There's perjury if he testified under oath in the small claims proceedings and knowingly made a materially false statement. Again, that one's hard to prove also kind of besides the point. Okay, so he spends a weekend in jail.

You still owe him $21 grand. I mean, come on. Based on what you've shared, it sounds like your case mostly hinges on the $3,000 conversation and the messages that you exchanged about all of this and the invoice and then whatever representations he made in court. It sucks that he deleted the messages before you could screenshot them, though,

because I feel like that kind of hamstrings your case without that. Well, the fact that he did that obviously makes him way more to me, there's no genuine misunderstanding if he deleted the messages. He did that deliberately to obfuscate your original agreement. But you can't have those messages admitted into evidence now. Other than like the string of deleted message, deleted message, deleted message, which I'm guessing you can't bring a lack of a message into evidence, can you? Well, it depends. I mean, you probably can, but it doesn't prove very much. It's circumstantial at best. He could have said anything in those messages. And you could be like, yeah, these are the messages that he deleted. And he admits that this is

all like going to be a date and he's going to pay for everything. And it's like, well, no, no, we have to go based on the actions because that stuff's all gone. Did he delete them? It's suspicious. And then he goes, I deleted them because they were sexually explicit and it was embarrassing for me and I didn't like her anymore and I wanted to get rid of it. And the judge is like, okay, I'm just going to weigh these at zero. What she wants to prove is that they had an agreement such as it was and that agreement was very different from what he's claiming. But if those texts were the only documentation, I just don't know how you prove that. Yeah. I wonder if that's why the case did not go her way and the judge couldn't even look at the documentation. It must have played a big role. Yeah. In addition to the history of making payments, I mean, that's the big one is like if somebody says you owe me this and you're like, I absolutely do not, but here's some money anyway. It's like, well, okay, then you obviously.

Which one is it? Some level felt that you did. My advice, talk to your attorney first, get their take on whether you should go to the police if that would help a potential case in any way and go from there. And if you do go to the police, I would bring them that binder of evidence that you created and I would describe what happened succinctly. clearly, factually. Don't go on there like, yeah, my ex is a romance scammer. You need to arrest him. Dates, exact representations, the state of $3,000 budget, invoice payments, company information, court records. That's what they're going to care about. Not this general story and not the romance scammer label. I would just be prepared for the cops to look at the invoice, partial payments, two completed small claims proceedings, and go, yeah, sorry, civil matter, nothing we can do here. But if they say that, you and your lawyer could respectfully push back, show them evidence you created, tell them which statutes you believe apply and hopefully get them to listen.

There's an interesting wrinkle here, which is whether there's an attempted theft or fraud crime concerning the judgment itself. Okay. Tell me more. Say more. If the theory is that he deliberately fabricated a debt and then used judicial proceedings as the mechanism for obtaining money from her, I don't know. I do wonder if your lawyer could make that case, that that's fraudulent. I'm with you, but that's highly fact dependent. It's super hard to prove. Yeah. And I imagine a lot of work to really dig into this guy's whole strategy. and do forensics on the invoice and the billing and make the look at his track record if this has happened before, if that apply.

It's a whole thing. I'm just throwing it out there. What still confuses me, why is his company the creditor and all this and what legal basis did the company claim for invoicing somebody with whom it apparently had no previous business relationship? That's got to be relevant to this case,

but maybe that's also hard for them to prove. It's weird that the judge didn't look at all this and go, and why is your personal loanout corporation billing your supposed girlfriend for a personal trip? Like, this doesn't make any sense. He's probably claiming, oh, my company does travel plans for tourism. But this guy who works for a judge in Stockton and then took his girlfriend to Italy, like, that doesn't...

Good point. Oh, my side hustle company is I'm a tour guide in Italy. I mean, that's... It sounds more and more ridiculous the more you sort of have to explain it away, right? Oh, then you must have other clients. No, this is the first one. Oh, actually, I had three more clients and they all went to small claims court saying that this is a bunch of bullshit. Right? Come on, man. Again, the most damaging fact is that she paid

seven grand, and then she said she would pay five more. I mean, the judge probably just took those payments as her acknowledging the underlying debt. That's what I would do. And I'm afraid that's going to be so hard to walk back. I hate to say this, because I know you can't go back, but I really wish you'd had an attorney from the start. I know you probably do too. I wish you'd appeal when you had the window and not let it lapse. I'm sure you also wish that too. And it sounds like you try to do this yourself, which I admire in a way. It's just always so risky, even in small claims court. If I, I am, I'm an attorney. If I had the ability to get a lawyer for small claims and I knew the other party had one,

I would absolutely get one myself and I wouldn't even try to represent myself even with a law degree. It just sounds like you either weren't aware of the deadline to appeal. Maybe you kind of slept on it. Now you're in a much worse position. So yes, obviously you do have to accept that you accidentally went on the most expensive date in modern history. That's non-negotiable. There's nothing you can do about that now.

And actually, that's an important phase of this, accepting that fact completely and coming to terms with it. that's different from completely giving up, right? Yes. I totally get why some people just pay these scammers and move on with their lives. It's so unpleasant. I might even consider doing it for that amount of money. And in your case, given the lien, you might kind of have to.

He could theoretically initiate legal action or a court proceeding to compel a forced sale of your property if the underlying debt remains unpaid. So you might have to pay him this money at this point to just avoid having to, what, sell your house or something like that to pay this jerk back. but I also want this guy to get some comeuppance so bad. I want you to have the satisfaction of standing up to this guy and take some of your power back, fighting for some justice, exposing this weirdo. So if there's a path forward, maybe some extenuating circumstances because you can prove

that there might be fraud at play, I would pursue it with your attorney. Jordan, I'm just wondering if he's done this to other people. I was thinking if he's ended up in lawsuits with people often, like if this is a regular strategy for him, that would show up on a standard consumer background check, right? pretty sure small claims court filings and financial judgments are part of the public record. And those sites that charge you like 30, 40 bucks to pull somebody's history, they routinely scrape that data. Now, I don't know how much you care about this guy's history, but if he has like eight small claims lawsuits with women on his record, that might help your attorney

make the case that this is his MO, and this is fraud, and it might give you some comfort to know that you were not the only one. I also wonder, and this is a little out there, but it's just an idea I'll throughout. These reports usually show the date of a case, the county where it was filed, the name of the court, and I believe the names of the plaintiff and the defendant, although that could differ from state to state. There are some laws like the Fair Credit Reporting Act that limit what information gets shown over what period of time. But if you can find those defendant's names, in other words, any other people he's done this to, what if you reached out to them? You find them on social media, you find their email address, and you ask them some questions and ask them about their stories. And if you

guys connect and you have similar experiences with him, I don't know, could you get other people to file police reports too? And could that be the start of a criminal investigation? Just a thought. Maybe it also helps with any more civil litigation as well. Dark Gabriel, I like it. It might also give her some support and validation, you know, as she makes sense of all this, which is the whole, the whole other part of her story. I'm sure it would. Victims banding together, obviously very powerful. You just have to be very careful that you don't all start defaming this guy, especially in writing. He scammed me. Did he scam me? He uses scammer. Let's tell everyone. Let's put it on Facebook. And then somehow he finds out or he gets a hold of those records. And he sues you for defamation on top of all this, which I mean, this guy sounds like he would love the chance to do that. I guess my final question for you is, did you see anything in this guy along the way that looking back now was kind of a red flag? I know you said the whole, we'll figure it out later was the red flag. But to me, that is not really, that I would have missed that red flag. Because there's nothing unusual about somebody you're dating saying, I'll just put on my card and we'll sort it out later. But is there anything, even a curious date?

point that now you see in a different light, something he said or didn't say, a small reaction he had, an opinion that somebody else who knew him had or whatever. Maybe it's just a feeling that you didn't know to take seriously at the time. I just ask you this, not to blame me for what happened, obviously. I just think it's important to do the forensics on this stuff so you can make more sense of what happens, so you can appreciate the breadcrumbs that you maybe didn't realize were important at the time. And yeah, if you ever find yourself meeting somebody like this again, maybe you're more equipped. although I highly doubt that this particular scam will ever happen again. And if it ever does, you know now, call an attorney immediately.

Do not hand over any money, not one cent. But yeah, good question. As we talk about sometimes, that can also help with the healing. To know that some part of you did pick up on some signals you didn't understand at the time or you didn't know to listen to. Again, very sorry this happened to you. This is so weird and it's awful and despicable and it just sucks. But whether you fight back or you just eat the cost,

I'm sure you've learned a lot through all this, and you have a wild story to tell now. I wish it never happened, but it sounds very revealing. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know, it's tastier than a $21,000 gelato. The delicious deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. Bon Appetito, y'all. We'll be right back.

This episode is brought to you by Zero. That's Zero with an X. Running a small business means there's always something competing for your attention. Managing your finances shouldn't make your day more complicated. Zero brings accounting, payments, payroll, and analytics together and one connected platform. So you spend less time piecing together the numbers and more time actually building your business. We've been using Zero for nearly a decade now and honestly, we don't know what we do without it at this point. That's meant clear reports, dashboards we can actually

read, forecasts and AI-powered insights that help us understand our own cash flow and see how the business is really doing. It was simple and easy to use from day one and it still is. In fact, 91% of customers surveyed agree that zero is easy to use and when you choose zero, you're joining five million customers worldwide, including us. That's zero with an X at zero.com. The 91% claim is based on a 2024-0 survey conducted in the U.S. UK and Australia. This episode is also sponsored by Chime. One of my biggest pet peeves in life is bank fees. A monthly fee to keep my money in an account. Okay, no thanks. Another fee if my balance gets too low. Give me a break, man. That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional banks that pile on fees and make it

keep a massive balance to unlock the best perks. Chime offers the most rewarding fee. free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees, and the benefits go beyond skipping fees. You get 5% cashback on Chime Card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, the stuff you're buying anyway, all while building credit through regular everyday spending, no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, Spot Me lets you overdraft up to $200 fee free because

sometimes you just need a little breathing room. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. chime.com slash jhs. That's chime.com slash jhs. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and chime card provided by Chimes bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. All of the deals, discounts, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the website at at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm the guy who wrote in a little while back. That was episode 1355 about my difficult marriage and the woman I recently met at a conference in Indiana with whom I had been texting since. Ah, yeah, so he and his wife, they'd grown apart over the years. They had two kids. He said their needs were very different at this point in the marriage and the other woman just kind of brought him back to life, right?

That's right. And our advice was basically this new woman in Indiana is revealing some importance. stuff about you and what you really want. And if you don't want to be married anymore, that's a fairer choice. But things are going to get a lot messier if you have an actual full-blown affair with this woman before you make that decision. So maybe don't do that. Right. Like listen to the data, but don't pursue the person, at least until you get clear on some big stuff. Yes. So he goes on. I wanted to say a huge thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I've listened to the segment a few times now and hearing your take really helped me process things. It gave me a lot more

to think about regarding my own actions and what I was really trying to ask you guys. I realized after hearing it that my original email definitely underplayed the reality of my marriage. It's tough to fit an entire decade into a short email, but I wanted to provide a little more context because things aren't exactly what they appeared to be. My wife struggles with traits consistent with borderline personality disorder, particularly with intense explosive anger. I spend every single day walking on eggshells around her just to keep the peace. Ooh, okay. She also has extreme OCD, which got significantly worse after COVID.

It has made living together almost unbearable. Yeah, man, that's really unfortunate. I can't hold that one against her as much because, you know, I'm sure she hates it even more than you do, but I hear you. That's made things a lot more challenging. More importantly, it's really starting to impact our kids' mental health. I saw a few comments on the Reddit thread about my story saying that I should have offered to do marriage counseling before looking elsewhere. For the record, I have offered and pushed for counseling multiple times. It has always met with total dismissiveness.

A few times, she explicitly told me, quote, you should go get counseling so you can come back and be a better husband. I don't need it because there's nothing wrong with me, unquote. Okay, that detail definitely changes things for me. So she either can't or won't work on things and you want to, and that, well, that changes everything. It's a tough reality to face, but you simply cannot help someone. who doesn't want to be helped. Regarding the woman from Indiana, you guys made some very fair points. But even if this relationship is an escape hatch for me, connecting with her genuinely

woke me up to what I actually want in a relationship, it put things into perspective and reminded me of what a healthy, peaceful dynamic is supposed to feel like after years of chaos. Totally get that. And I think we said as much. I think we were just saying, understanding what you want in a relationship is probably more important than this specific person. Yeah, especially at this stage or what we thought was this stage. It sounds like things are more far gone than we assumed. Yeah, so correct. You and your wife are in a more difficult spot than we knew. But I also understand that it's, man, it's hard to meet someone amazing who's completely different from your very challenging spouse. You're thinking about leaving and go, well, thanks for

the great data point. See you in three years. Maybe never. If the data is useful, then you probably feel the person is very important too. Right. We were just saying, be very careful, very thoughtful, because if you start up with this woman, then you're technically having an affair, no matter what the particulars are or how you feel inside. And that's definitely the narrative your wife is going to subscribe to if and when she finds out. And it might impact your divorce proceedings, custody conversations, and relationship with your kids, all that stuff. So I have officially decided to move forward with a divorce. Wow. Big news. Okay. All right. The paperwork is currently in the hands of my

attorney, though my wife has not officially been served yet. Oh my God, that must be such an intense feeling. Over the past few weeks, we had three serious conversations about the state of our relationship. Unfortunately, these conversations were followed by more intense, classic BPD-style meltdowns and explosive arguments, leading us to agree that we need to separate. Dude, this guy tried in every conceivable way. I mean, we don't know what the nature or quality of the conversations is, but it sounds to me like he didn't just jump from, uh, things are bumpy at home to I'm going to run away with this woman from Indiana, which is kind of what we initially feared. Since those blow-ups, she's calmed down a bit and started talking about a cool-off period.

I can tell that she's trying to control her temper. But her old OCD and BPD patterns are already creeping back in. I know this cycle all too well, and I am firmly committed to seeing the divorce through. Super sad, but I understand. I wish she were willing to talk about this stuff with someone. My attorney's general advice is that the more we can work out ourselves outside of court, the better. In a normal divorce, that makes total sense. But trying to collaborate with someone with untreated BPD is a minefield. I'm already walking on eggshells when things are relatively peaceful.

I cannot fathom what living under the same roof and trying to raise our kids will look like once she's served with divorce papers. Oof, yeah, that's going to be tricky. But I can't just move out right away because of the kids. I know a massive, toxic meltdown is coming. How do I manage living in the same house with a volatile spouse while the divorce settlement is in progress after she's served? Do you have any strategies to handle it and keep the environment safe for my kids and me?

And if things get intolerable and I need to step out and live outside the main house, will that negatively impact my standing when it comes to child custody? Signed, knowing it's time for me to say no, but trying to figure out what to do and say, though, when I'm heading into this tornado. Man, this is intense. So first of all, thank you for sharing this update with us, and I'm sorry that it's come to this. Candidly, it sounds like the right decision. I mean, you said you both agreed that it's best to separate. It doesn't sound like there's a way forward here, especially if she straight up refuses to go to therapy and work on anything, if she truly believes that this is all your fault. So as sad as it is, it does sound necessary. That said, I really appreciate that you tried in all these ways to talk to your wife and seek out support and fix things. I think that's crucial, both to give your marriage a real shot. and for you personally to know that you just did everything you could. But yeah, this is just the beginning of what I assume

is going to be a pretty bumpy ride, especially with a spouse with these particular challenges. So my first thought for you is, I would get very clear with yourself about your objective during this period. Obviously, the main one is to separate from your wife, but at this point, that's a legal process. You've already filed the papers. By the time this comes out, I assume she'll have them.

So now that that part's underway, what do you hope to accomplish? You know, if I were in your shoes, I think my goals would be to treat my soon-to-be-ex-wife with as much kindness, peace and respect as possible under the circumstances, to take really good care of my kids and secure my relationship with them, especially if mom might have some strong reactions and just try to recruit them as allies and the separation. I'd want to protect myself, to take care of myself emotionally, to not be any more affected or hurt or manipulated by my spouse than is absolutely necessary. And to continue understanding what happened in your marriage, what you truly want and need now, how you're dealing with all this, those would be my top three. Maybe you have others or slightly

different ones. Whatever they are, I would get clear on them. I would talk about them with a couple close people. I would write them down. Everything you do and say should reflect those goals and those intentions and those values. And when things get intense in the house, which it sounds like they probably will, I would work really hard to stay kind, respectful, and even keeled as much as you can, your wife is going to have whatever reactions she has. She's going to turn to whatever strategies feel best in the moment, which I'm guessing probably means yelling, blaming, guilt-tripping, avoiding, shutting down, retreating, generally being volatile, as you put it. And I think you're basically going to have to let her do that. You know, whether she has BPD or not, those meltdowns

than the tactics, they sound like her way of responding to shame and hurt and abandonment. So when she does that, you can, well, first of all, validate her. I'm sorry, this is so painful. I can see that you're really upset. I understand why. If you want to take a breather and have a productive conversation about how we can move through this chapter together peacefully, I'm here for that. I wouldn't patronize or condescend to her, but I would offer some basic support. I would also know when to simply back up and disengage. If you see that she wants to rage at you or make you feel guilty or ashamed or rant and rave unproductively or just create a scene, you can say, I can see you're really upset right now, but we're not having a conversation. So I'm just going to go in

the other room. And if you want to try talking in a new way in a little bit, we can. Or if this continues, you can literally say, I don't think there's much more for us to say. So I'm just going to go in the living room now and let you take care of yourself. That's a really nice approach. You can also try saying things like, I can see how hard this is for you. It's also hard for me. So how can I help and see what she says. That can be a nice question sometimes because it kind of forces the other person to reflect on what exactly they do want from you and what they might be trying to accomplish when they become volatile. Basically, you'd be asking your wife to be more thoughtful and take some accountability for the feelings that she has. So maybe she responds by saying, well, you know how you can help. You can go

to therapy and work on yourself so we can stay together. And then you can say, well, that's not my understanding of why we're here, but I hear you that you think I have work to do. So, okay. Maybe she says nothing. There's nothing you can do to help. And you say, okay, I hear you. I'm sorry, that's tough. or maybe she surprises you and says, well, I want you to explain, you know, why you want to leave and why we have this problem. That, you know, something more productive and you guys actually have a real conversation. But asking her the question might be a good way bringing her back to a shared plane of reality when her instinct, based on what you shared with us, is to go into her story, basically, and just kind of, you know, emote. I like that, Gabe. The other thing I would do is stay very close to your kids.

check in on them often, ask them how they're doing with this transition. If they have any questions, anything they want to talk about, listen to them, engage them, keep the door open, make sure they know it's okay to talk to you about all this. Also, just keep hanging out with them in general. Keep doing dad stuff, whatever that is for you guys, going to the park, making dinner, going to the movies, hanging out. I'm sure that continuity will mean a lot to them. And if they're ever around for any arguments with your wife, that's even more reason to stay calm,

both so that they don't get exposed to any more pain than they have to, and so that they also see dad is kind and respectful, and they have a good example of how to navigate conflict in the house. I think that's really important. Agreed completely. I think they're going to pick up on that. And if your wife does try to poison the well with them, those data points are probably going to count for a lot.

As for how moving out will impact custody, that's a question for your attorney, and I think it depends on the unique fact. My understanding is, generally, moving out does not by itself mean that you give up custody or that you're somehow legally presumed to be the less favored parent. In fact, in California, for example, there's a statute aimed directly at this problem. California Family Code Section 3046 literally says that a court should not use a parent's absence

or relocation from the family home against that parent when the absence is relatively short and the parent continues trying to maintain custody, visitation, and contact with the child and shows no intent to abandon the child. How that actually plays out in practice? That's another question. Maybe your state has different statutes or traditions, but tons of parents move. out of the house during a separation and they still get custody. I'm pretty sure this has less to do with whether you physically live in the house and more to do with what custody arrangement develops after you move out. So for example, if you get an apartment, your kids stay in the house with your wife and for the next six months she gets them up every morning, takes them to school, does homework with

them, takes them to the doctor and soccer games and sleepovers and puts them to bed and all that. And you see them every other weekend. That's a common arrangement. If you guys end up in litigation over custody, theoretically, she could point to a functioning arrangement in which the kids primarily live with her. Again, in California, I think the courts, they really primarily care about the children's existing custodial relationships and stability quite a bit. Other states might be different. So moving out can indirectly create a disadvantage by establishing a status quo. But the act of leaving the house, that itself isn't disqualifying. Again, your lawyer should absolutely be part of that decision, and they will advise you best. I just want to take a quick moment to acknowledge

that we're only hearing about all of this from his point of view, right? His wife sounds very challenging. BPD or not, these reactions that she is having are immensely difficult. It's kind of impossible to have a real conversation and work on things with somebody who is saying, you're the problem, I'm perfect, I have nothing to talk about. And that kind of says a lot and makes me think that his story is pretty credible. But that does not automatically mean that all of her anger and disappointment, frustration with him is meaningless, irrelevant, right? She might have some very legitimate grievances about their time together. And even if our friend here is a good person and had good intentions, he might have also done some things along the way in this highly imperfect marriage that

genuinely upset her. Now, if she's genuinely upset about something, then I would think she would want to go to therapy to talk about it. So that still is a very curious stance that she's taking and probably says a lot about her willingness to dig into some really intense material for both of them. But I just want to kind of like acknowledge this because, I don't know, I find myself like you, Jordan, tell me if you agree, kind of largely on this guy's side based on what he's saying. I mean, to be married to somebody who behaves this way is really, really difficult. And he's obviously being pulled to this other woman because she's so different from his wife. And I understand those feelings.

I really do appreciate his difficult position. But there are two people in this marriage. And I'm not saying that he needs to stick around and work on it with her, but it doesn't mean necessarily that he was flawless the entire time. And I just kind of want to put that on the table so that we're not missing anything huge by saying, well, here's how you can divorce perfectly and you've done nothing wrong because she won't go to therapy. So again, really sorry you guys had to go your separate ways.

But given the facts, I think it was kind of inevitable and probably necessary, given that you know you on something very different. One more thing here, unless you left something big out of your last letter, we don't know if you're still talking to this woman in Indiana, what those conversations are like, but generally speaking, it sounds to me like you are doing more or less what we recommended last time, which is you're saying, I now know what a harmonious relationship looks like. That's what I want, which means I don't want to be married to a volatile spouse, and I don't want to start cheating on her with this other person by really pursuing this affair. So I'm going to separate because it's the right thing to do. To her credit, it sounds like your wife feels similarly. I'm sure she also

feels that something is not aligned here. A few people in our subreddit pointed out that her needs are probably also not being met in this marriage. And that's also relevant. And she's not happy either. Although what your wife needs or rather what she thinks she needs and how she goes about getting those needs met, that is a bit of a complicated question. But point is, I think you're doing the right thing here. You're redefining the marriage. You're making things clear. And then you're deciding what kind of life you want to build. and with whom, whether it's with this woman in Indiana or someone else. Again, it might in fact be messier than that in practice if you're still talking to her, which I'm assuming you are. But officially separating is a crucial step. Obviously, legally, it's a crucial step, but also

emotionally so that you can be as clear and fair and clean as possible, all things considered. Agreed. And if he can collaborate with his wife on deciding these big things as peacefully as possible. If her wounds don't cause her to act in ways that are more painful and counterproductive, maybe they can get through this relatively unscathed. I certainly hope that's the case, but keep your eye on the prize, your emotional safety, your relationship with your kids, your independence, your freedom to pursue a different kind of romantic relationship, honestly and fairly, as honestly and fairly as possible. That's why you're doing this. And how you respond to your wife, how you relate to your kids, moment to moment every day,

that's going to determine a lot of your outcomes. Sending you, your kids, even your wife, a big hug in wishing you all the best. By the way, you can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes,

your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you ended a relationship with an amazing woman abroad after she said she couldn't move to your country. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up at Friday atjordanharbanger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Also, folks, the subreddit is, fire lately, as you heard from the question above. There's a lot of people commenting on

Feedback Friday especially. Come join us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. You know how to lure your kids into visiting you when you move into your own place? Grab some of the killer products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment, support our amazing sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. If you have a problem with anything or you can't find something, email us. Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com.

We're happy to dig those codes up for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. And now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler. So mine is once again protein related. Meathead. Hashtag Meathead. This is is isopure protein drink.

It's not a shake. It's not like what you're thinking. It's not one of those milk-based whey protein. drinks. It has way protein in it, but somehow, and I had to look this up because I was like, how is this possible? It's transparent and it tastes like gatorade, but it has 32 grams of protein in it. So they did something with the way where it just isn't milky. It doesn't have that powdery chocolate kind of texture. It's a really good shift if you're sick of protein shakes or you already drink a shake, but you need another one. And the idea of drinking another shake makes you

feel disgusting inside, and I know that feeling well. It's also really a lot easier to drink during a workout because again, it's more like Gatorade than milk, which you don't want to bring to the gym generally. It tastes good, or I should say fine, warm, unlike basically every other protein shake. Obviously, everything like this is better cold. It's got 32 grams of protein in there, so it's as protein rich as even some of the best of shakes. I drink core power elite, as I mentioned before, that's 42, but that's heavy-duty milk tasting stuff. It really is amazing. I found this when I was in Hong Kong because we were walking a ton, and I wanted to try all the weird beverages. And I saw something that was called ProT Plus, and I was like, what is this? It's got 20 grams of protein, but it's tea. I don't understand how this works.

They had a ton of varieties of it. So I looked for it because I loved it. I looked for it on Amazon. And the only thing they had was this particular shake. I've only tried the apple flavor so far, but I bought cases of it because I just think this is a really interesting new category of beverage that I had never seen before two weeks. weeks ago. It's a really a great product. We'll link to it in the show notes. They don't sponsor the show as is the case with everything on the recommendation of the week. And that link, again, is in the show notes, which are always on the website for people who go, they never in the show notes. Yes, they are. That's just not the thing you click on your phone. It's on the website at jordanharbinger.com in the actual show notes. All right, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 45-year-old man, and I've been married for almost 20 years and have four children. I worked for a small family

business since 2004 as a middle manager. My cousin and I grew the company from $1 million in revenue a year in 2005 to over $40 million in 2020. Wow, that's incredible. As a warehouse manager, I was responsible for a team of a dozen people, which was stressful, but also rewarding. In 2016, I realized I was overweight. Heart disease is also rampant in my family, so I started to go to the gym and get in good shape. I cut about 40 pounds of fat and was able to accomplish a 4-3-2 lifting goal, i.e. 4-plate dead

lift, three plate squat, two plate bench. This was a huge boon to my mental health. Life felt great. Yoked. Amazing. Well done, man. You got to get that isopure stuff I'm talking about earlier. Then I noticed a problem. Sometime in 2018, my wife came home late in the evening and instead of going to greet her and give her hugs and affection, I just stayed in the kitchen and felt nothing. This was not me. I sat and pondered this new feeling and felt an incredible dark spot in my mind. like a black hole that was gross, dark, and vile, and I got a sudden urge to start crying. Wow, intense.

I've been told that this could be a sign of Alzheimer's disease or dementia. I was now starting to forget names, birthdays, and special events that my wife told me about. And I just got that feeling like Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings. I have no memory of this place. Well, your sense of humor's intact, so that's something. But yeah, this sounds pretty scary. A black hole for getting important stuff? I mean, that's not good.

I'm going to admit that I will never win husband or father of the year. I'm also starting to lose my temper more easily and make compulsive and irrational decisions and purchases. Huh. Interesting. So the symptoms are all over the place. So it's kind of hard to know what's going on here. But I've never turned to drugs or gambling. I keep plugging away at my gym, keep up the family and work routine, keep the inner demons at bay, and do my best to uplift others. Life is good. It's not perfect. But I'm keeping. keeping it together. But deep inside, the cracks in my mind are getting worse. In the summer of 2020, the family business got sold to a global corporation, and I got laid off in 2024. It absolutely devastated me. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. That's obviously tough. It was all I knew. I never

experienced unemployment in my whole life. I did find a new warehouse job within two weeks for about the same pay, but I was only responsible for one person, me. Meanwhile, I'm having a harder and harder time remembering names, dates, new policies. Now I'm verbally fighting with my wife. I'm starting to get mean. Then, last year, just before my 44th birthday, I found out that I had an aortic aneurysm and a severe valve regurgitation in my heart. My aorta was three times its normal size and was going to rip at any moment. This absolutely broke me to think that the gym time that kept me alive mentally, almost killed me physically. Damn, so was this caused by lifting super? No, no, no, that can't be. It's got it, but it can be exacerbated by lifting super heavy, I would imagine. I would assume so.

I mean, I did a quick Google on this and heavy lifting and intense straining can do this apparently, but he said his family has a history of heart disease. So I'm assuming that played a role. Yeah, like, it's probably the raw material's all there and you're like, let me try super hard and push really hard to lift super heavy stuff. And it's like, oh, we're not designed for that. You just made this a million times worse. And he was much more. overweight before, so who knows how that played a role. That's a really good point. Oh, that sucks. So he was just hitting it way too. I mean, a lot of this is just bad luck. Usually people find out about this stuff because they die suddenly

on a basketball court or something. So the lucky part is you found out about it in time to not die from it randomly while you're bench pressing. I underwent open heart surgery in September 2025 and got the aortic stem replaced as well as a mechanical heart valve. I then had a complication a week later when I got home that almost killed me for a second time and required a pacemaker to fix. What a nightmare. Sorry, man. I'm now back to work and working out, but at a much lower capacity.

And now I have to do cardio. Yuck. Yeah, that's the worst thing I've heard all episode. I hate that for you. But I don't know, maybe it's good for you. I don't know. Everyone hates cardio, except for the people that love it, but those people are frigging weirdos. And I'm finding that it's now much harder to remember things.

I forget how to get to play. places, I don't remember important upcoming events like I used to, and just last month I lost it with my wife. After being nagged about so many things I don't do right, I told her that I hated my marriage and went off on an angry rant. This isn't me. I really don't like making others feel horrible, especially my wife, but I'm so quick to get mad. Most of the time now, I just don't feel anything. To be clear, I'm not suicidal, far from it. It just feels like the train of my identity. identity is leaving, and I'm trying to keep up so I can get on board before it takes off. Ooh, that's an intense metaphor. Wow.

Is this depression? Is this early onset dementia? Or does this just come with the territory of being in my mid-40s? Most importantly, where do I go for help? Signed, feeling drained, like I'm circling the drain, and wondering whose domain it is to suss out what's in my brain. When I find myself complain, struggle with the mundane, and more and more struggle to retain. Man, such an intense letter. Obviously, my heart goes out to you. You've been through a lot here. Health problems, mental health challenges, marriage and family difficulties, a professional setback, although it sounds like you roll with a punch is pretty well. It's a lot. So this goes without saying, we can't diagnose you, you know, medically or anything. It's impossible for us to know if this is

depression or dementia or signs of a midlife transition. But these symptoms sound pretty specific and pretty intense. They're clearly concerning to you and they have been for a long time. Years, it sounds like, if I were in your shoes, I would book the following two appointments immediately. One is with a neurologist. I would tell them what you've been experiencing, the irritability, the struggle to remember things, all these symptoms, see what they say. You might have to go to your GP first, probably a good idea, because it might not be something for a neurologist, might be something for a neurologist, and somebody else. Anyway, they'll probably take a medical history, do some physical exams, order some cognitive tests, maybe order some scans, do lab work. If the neurologist and

GP say, hey, no indicators of dementia, great, then you have a lot more confidence that these are symptoms related to mood, outlook, situation, health challenges, existential 40-something dude stuff. If there is something physical going on in the brain, your doctor can advise on next steps, probably medication and other lifestyle changes that will help slow the progression. But you'll cross that bridge when you get there. This is crucial. Do not sleep on this, man. Reversing this stuff is really hard to do. Pausing it is or slowing it is really kind of the game with a lot of his brain stuff. The second appointment I'd make is obviously with a therapist. Falling on the sword two weeks in a row. Thank you for that. Happy to do it. I appreciate it.

Even, look, even if this turns out to be neurological, it sounds like you could really use a place to talk about all these changes in your life and the feelings and get more insight into your situation. This is just as important as seeing a neurologist in my view. You're in a lot of distress, everything you've shared as a symptom worth investigating with a good professional. Like you said, we can't diagnose this guy, the outbursts, the shifting mood, the struggle to remember things, especially how to get to places and major events in their lives and all that. Obviously, that would raise alarm bells for anybody. It could also be some other health thing besides dementia. I don't want to speculate because there's no reason to freak him out

unnecessarily. He just has to talk to a doctor, or it could be some other injury, some other condition. But I also wonder if these could also be more garden variety symptoms of depression, dissociation, not being present and content with the structures of his life, whether it's his job or his marriage, maybe even this phase of life, you know? Yeah, I suppose that that's true. Look, also, how's he sleeping? Because a lot of this could be explained by not sleeping or not sleeping well, and all his other challenges and stresses might be making it hard to rest. I mean, that's natural. It's just another possibility. Like you said, it's also possible that he's smacked out. in a kind of midlife crisis slash transition that is doing a real number on him. I think this period

usually brings up a lot of stuff for people. It can also make things that were repressed or ignored for a long time suddenly reassert themselves very strongly. But it's just really interesting. In one part of his letter he describes this extreme anger, right? But then in another part he says most of the time I just don't feel anything. Which does sound a lot like depression, but could also be him white knuckling it and dissociating a little bit. I'm also curious about this whole black hole. The that was gross, dark, and vile. Yeah. So intense.

That is super intense. I've never heard dementia described that way. I mean, I could be wrong, but that just, it sounds like maybe something else. So what happened that night? His wife came home late, he said. And instead of going to greet her, he stayed in the kitchen, and then he had the black hole moment. He seems to be describing some kind of very old pain, which, who knows, might be tied to

something in his past. Maybe was triggered in the moment by his wife being away most of the evening. I don't know if that's a relevant detail, but it seems maybe the two are connected. And when that thing is activated, it can easily become rage or terror, basically, is what I'm hearing. And if it is rage, it sounds like it's especially toward his wife. And so I agree. I'm not entirely sure that I would go, oh, that's probably dementia because somebody said that could be dementia. But of course, it could be part of what's going on.

But the fact that he got a sudden urge to start crying afterward, I don't know. that to me suggests that there's some pain there, something very tender, and I feel for him. But in those moments, he might be in touch with something difficult to name or put words to, right? And that's very significant. It might even be the key to all of this. So again, we just cannot know whether it's a midlife existential thing or something that goes back to childhood, whether it's a physical health problem or a mental health one or circumstantial, like losing his job, or in some sense chemical. There are just so many variables. This could easily be more than one thing. Like he might have dementia and have depression,

and be struggling with his mood after being laid off. But I guess what I'm trying to get at is the fact that he's kind of chalking all of this up to something medical, neurological, like this thing in his brain that would be out of his control, that might be interesting in context. Our friend here is wrestling with a bunch of symptoms and a bunch of challenges, and he's going, I think it's dementia, what do I do if it's dementia? Well, maybe it is dementia. There do seem to be some concerning memory things going on. The loss of identity is concerning.

But maybe chalking all of this up to dementia is also preventing him from really, really taking stock of what he is dealing with and how he got here. He might not want to really look at the stuff and dig into it. So he's going, well, it's got to be medical. My hope is that a good therapist could help him start talking about some of this stuff. But he has to get a lot more curious about himself than he currently seems to be. Agreed. There's so much more here. Even if he does have something neurological, and if there is something neurological, that's also going to affect his mood, outlook, relationships. So the two are related. He can't afford to neglect this. That said, though, think it's somewhat encouraging that he's saying, hey, this isn't me. I really don't like making

people feel horrible, especially my wife. Yeah, true. He's a decent person. You can hear that in his letter, but I also wonder if that's entirely accurate. I mean, you could argue that these thoughts and feelings are him in the sense that, well, first of all, they're happening inside of him, so there's that, but also they might reflect some legitimate feelings, unpleasant feelings, but legitimate ones about parts of his life that he is not happy with, or relationships and responsibilities that are difficult for him sometimes. I think any feeling, any symptom is usually a sign pointing to an area that we need to invest some time in and potentially make some changes. All of this might also be a response to the terror he feels about what is happening in his body,

both with his heart and potentially his brain. And all of that would make them very valuable indeed. So I hear him, he doesn't feel like a naturally angry person. He doesn't like to be cruel. But I also wonder if by saying, well, this isn't me. He's denying something. of these feelings or distancing himself from them. And if that might make it that much harder for him to invite them in and say, okay, this is going on for me too. I don't like it, but these feelings are here. And I need to take a look at them and see what they're trying to tell me. It's a good point. There's a difference between saying, I'm doing these things, but this isn't me. And I'm doing these things, but I don't want to be this kind of person. Exactly. But the only way to not be this kind of person,

if you don't want to be, is to become friendlier with the parts of you that are causing the shame and distress. I don't think there's another way. Totally agree. And you, yeah, look, a lot of this can come with the territory of being in your mid-40s. It's a massive transition that comes with a lot of change and a lot of feelings, but I wouldn't say it just comes to the territory. So, like, you know, it's nothing to worry about them. Just in my 40s. I absolutely think you need to take these symptoms seriously and follow them to a neurologist

and the therapist's stat. I would be very open with both of them about what you're experiencing, these conflicts and the moments you're finding yourself in, what concerns you, and just listen to what they have to say, and then go from there. I'm sorry for all the stress and uncertainty you've dealt with lately. I can only imagine how hard that's been, but I'm confident that with the right support,

you can use all of this to learn and grow a ton and take good care of the people around you, including your wife. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. Don't forget to check out our episode with Sean Whistwesser on Russian intelligence services. Are they corrupt buffoons or super spies or a little bit of both? And our Skeppy Sunny on food deserts, if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts are on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com.

discounts, ways to support the show also on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created an association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase, Sanderson, Robert Sogretty, Ian Baird, Tadasildouskis, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You'd never obey a stranger who called you and told you to commit a crime, right? Javier Leva uncovers how ordinary, intelligent people were manipulated by fake authority into doing the unthinkable

and why the certainty that you'd never fall for it could make you the perfect target. This is the con. Because I interview a lot of con artists, what they do is they overwhelm you. They raise your sense of urgency, which now you're bypassing all your common sense. Things that would normally make sense to us, we're not even thinking about that, right? Because we're like in a state of alarm. We're hardwired to trust people.

People obey because we're taught to respect authority. I found case after case of people impersonating ICE agents and doing our all kinds of stuff, not just rape or violent crime, extortion, like all kinds of stuff. And I was like, you know what? You could go to a Baspero shop and buy your ice uniform, right? And you could pull off whatever you want because people respect authority. People are afraid of authority and they will most likely do what you say. And you might fall for it. This is just the tip of the iceberg, man. When somebody causes a sense of urgency and you bypass your logic, Just slow it down, pause it, give yourself some time to thank.

Because when you're acting out of fear, you're making bad decisions. And I think just doing that will save you a lot of grief. This stuff is insane and is probably the most extreme examples. But I think that just have that in the back of your mind that some people are looking to take advantage of you. And just have a healthy dose of skepticism. Find out how to recognize the trap before your judgment and your life unraveled. on episode 1330 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.