The Jordan Harbinger Show - 157: John Ruhlin | Ways to Give Gifts That Make a Big Difference

Episode Date: February 7, 2019

John Ruhlin (@ruhlin) is the world's leading authority in maximizing customer loyalty through radical generosity. He is the founder of Ruhlin Group, and author of Giftology: The Art and Science of Using Gifts to Cut Through the Noise, Increase Referrals, and Strengthen Retention. What We Discuss with John Ruhlin: Active loyalty versus passive loyalty. Why personalization matters. Why you should be asking "What's the most I can do here?" when investing in relationships rather than "What's the least I can get away with?" Why the timing of a gift matters. How to exercise radical generosity and take gift-giving to a whole new level. And much more... Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course!  Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! Full show notes and resources can be found here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason DePhilippo. Everyone loves gifts, but not all gifts are created equal. John Rulin is the world's leading authority in maximizing customer loyalty through radical generosity. This might sound corporate, but I've known John for years, and this farm boy has a way of getting in your head through radical generosity and really takes gifting to the next level. Even if you're not in business for yourself, you don't have a corporate gifting thing going on, or maybe you're going to do it later, The concepts he's teaching here today can be applied inside or outside of business and have been used by Fortune 50 companies to billionaires to soccer moms and beyond. If you want to know how I manage my network of hundreds slash thousands of really amazing people and keep that going, well, it's about systems and tiny habits.

Check out our Level 1 course, which is free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash Level 1 to learn how I managed to do all that. Now, here's John Rulin. John, one of the things that you specialize in, it's not as simple as just like give people swag and promo items, and that's what I do. Because at first I thought, okay, corporate gifting, snore, right? There's nothing here. I don't need a polo with like Ford Motor Company embroidered on it. You know, but you're, that's not what you do.

You've got essentially radical generosity and loyalty through gifting. And that's a completely different animal. Can you give us a little overview of that? Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people, they assume that they have loyalty and they assume that they know what a gift is, like everybody's received a gift or what they think is a gift. And they don't understand that a gift by its very nature is the antithesis of swag and trinkets and promo. It's actually the opposite. Like, you know, I tell people all the time, like, think about what you do at a wedding.

Like, you'd never go to somebody's wedding. Even if you're the tackiest person on the planet, you'd never engrave compliments of Jordan Harbinger. or on this Tiffany's vase you're going to give somebody. Like that'd be the worst thing ever. It'd be tacky. People would make fun of you for decades, if not the rest of your life. And yet that's what most people do in corporate America. They give out the cheapest crap that they can find, and they slam their logo all over it.

And so at a core level, what we teach people is that everyone says relationships are their most valuable asset. And everybody says, oh, I have loyal clients. And I'm like, well, how many of your loyal clients are sending you actively sending you referrals. How many of your loyal employees are not just collecting a paycheck, but they're actually actively filling your seats? If your people aren't actively advocating on your behalf, you have a loyalty problem. You have a bunch of passively loyal relationships that stick around for the paycheck or stick around with your business because it's too difficult to change to another provider.

But an actively loyal relationship is one that feels deep sense of gratitude, a deep sense of purpose and is really connected to you. And one of the ways that we've found, found to solve the loyalty problem is that whether you're a janitor or whether you're a billionaire at a core level we're all human beings and we all crave to be acknowledged we all crave to be appreciated you know it's like the five the book the five love languages we all want to be loved now we all want to be loved in different ways but most of us crave being known and acknowledged and when you give somebody a gift that makes them feel deep and feel VIP and feel special there's a feeling psychologically like robert chowdini's talked about like there's a

there's something that goes on in her brain psychologically that wants to reciprocate back to that person, that wants to love that person back. Like, it's just how we're wired. And most people in business have completely missed the boat. And they think they're doing great marketing and great relationship building by, you know, giving out swag and polos and umbrellas. And what they're really doing is actually communicating to the other person that they don't matter. That's a good point.

And I think the problem that people think of is they're thinking of only customer loyalty. They're not thinking of employee loyalty. They're certainly not thinking of people on their team. And there's also this misconception that we can give stuff like, oh, we gave all our volunteers T-shirts. And it's like, all right, that's okay. But it doesn't really speak to what I would want necessarily. Like I and everyone else, we don't need another T-shirt that says Volunteer Day, 2019, you know,

University of Alabama River cleanup. It's like, I just don't need that. I don't even, I'm disappointed that they even made those because it was just the energy, the environmental impact of me straight up donating this thing that like is going to go to goodwill and maybe get just recycled because even homeless people are like, no thanks. This is an XL or a double XL because they're like, oh, these need to fit everyone. Let's get one size, right? So it's just ridiculous.

To spend money to have a negative emotion and a feeling, to spend money. to have it end up impacting the environment horribly, to spend money to actually offend your most important relationships. And it took you time, energy resources, whatever else. Like, people don't realize that they're, you know, the impact and the ripple effect of what they're doing.

Like, everybody wants to be acknowledged. A handwritten note, people are like, I can't afford to do something. I'm like, can you afford the time to write a really thoughtful handwritten note? Like, you can, you know, people are like, oh, there's gifting rules and regulations. I'm like, well, you can send a handwritten note to anybody.

And oftentimes the handwritten note is just as important as anything. And yeah, the cheap shirt from China that somebody spent, you know, $5.97 on that, yeah, it's going to go to Goodwill or it's going to get wax the car on a Saturday. Best case scenario. I use a lot of them in the bottom of our pets cages when they're, you know, travel into the vet or whatever else. And so, like, it's horrible. I feel bad. Like, you know, I literally take bags of stuff to Goodwill, but I don't want, I don't need more crap. And I think most people feel that way.

You know, there's books like essentialism and tidying up and whatever else. Like people are getting rid of a lot of junk in their houses on a pretty consistent basis because nobody thinks about this. Yeah. So we don't need our customer slash employee loyalty gift to get Marie condoed, right? No. No. That's for sure. That's not earning you any brownie points with your most important relationships.

That is for sure. But in our polite culture, in our very politically correct culture, like people will give you the token thank you and say thank you for it. Like nobody's going to like write the note and say, I actually thought less of you as a human being when I received this, you know, bottle of wine with your logo engraved on it or this coozy or this shirt or this hat. But oftentimes that's what people think. They're like, man, this person, like everyone wants to be thought of as the thoughtful person. And that's what people say. Oh, it's the thought that counts. And I'm like, no, it's the thoughtful thought.

and people can tell if you put energy and effort, it's like your spouse. Like they can tell if you mailed it in and like went and picked up like some, you know, ran a box of Russell Stover's chocolates at Walgreens or did you actually like listen throughout the year and pick something out, you know, not just for the holidays of like Valentine's Day and birthdays and anniversaries, but you went out of your way the other times a year to be thoughtful and say, hey, I love you, I hear you, I acknowledge you, I see you, and I went out of my way and put energy and effort and resources into. this gift. And it's not always the most expensive one. Oftentimes, some of my best gifts to my

wife have been ones that, like, didn't cost a lot of money, but they took time, energy, creativity, whatever else. And it's just shocking to me how many people miss the mark, whether it's corporate gifting or whether it's, you know, gifts to their loved ones. Oh, man, I'll never forget my ex-girlfriend's dad. I was there on Christmas. It's like probably literally 10 plus years ago. I was there on Christmas and it was Christmas morning. It was kind of early. and I remember he was like, oh, I gotta go do something really quick. And everyone's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, I got to go do something.

I forgot to, it was like this clumsy excuse. And then he leaves for a while and comes back. And then a few people see him sneaking another gift under the tree and we're like, okay, that was weird. And then, of course, it turns out to be the gift for his wife, my girlfriend's mom. and everyone kind of knew that he had done that. And then she opens the gift and it's like essentially a digital camera from Walmart, but not the one that she had wanted at all.

Like totally different model, different style. You know, it was like a DSLR instead of a point and shoot or a point and shoot instead of a DLS. I don't know what it was, but it was not. at all anything that she would have even really wanted. I don't even know if she wanted a digital camera, but that was what she got. And she was super, super pissed.

It would have been better if he was like, I didn't get you anything. Yeah, just been honest and owned it and said, hey, I screwed up, whatever else. Like,

yeah, when you try to slip something in as a plan B like that, that's just, oh my gosh, man, that's just horrible. Right.

Right. Because it would have been better if he was just like, look, I forgot, but I've got something up my sleeve, that's better than I forgot and I went out and I really did the most half-assed attempt to do this. And the reason I tell the story is because I feel like lots of corporate gifts or

things that you see in general as something that's supposed to signal to other people that they're special, that they're being treated like a VIP, is the corporate or personal equivalent of the Walmart camera under the Christmas tree bought last minute? So a gift is, it has to be special. It to be personalized. It has to be thoughtful. It can't be swag. It can't be a promo item. It has to be about the recipient. And I think a lot of people sounds really obvious, but a lot of people make this mistake because people will make the gift all about the company. And they're like, aren't these really, we bought the nicest jackets that we could get and embroidered our company name in the back. Right. Yeah. It's like, oh, we got under armor, all we got whatever.

It's like that doesn't, you know, that doesn't fix the fact that you're trying to turn somebody else, whether it's an employer, whether it's a client, into a walking billboard for you. Like, how does that make you feel special? Like, hey, you know, like, we pay you money. Now go out and here's your, you know, like, you know, gift that's basically a walking billboard. That makes people feel like manipulated. It makes people feel like they're like a number. Like they're not a human. Like, it just, it communicates all of the wrong things.

things, but because it's, you know, we're in Western society and there's billions of dollars spent on, you know, promo and swag, it's become just kind of commonplace. But it, uh, you know, if you went back a hundred years ago, um, and thought about like what your great grandfather would have done, like a lot of those old school principles of like, you know, the simplicity, the handmade, the, the personalization, the handwritten note, you know, it's like, you know, showing up to a meeting and your shoes aren't shined. It's like that little thing, you know, It's not like you can have a sucky company or sucky relationships and be a great gift giver and like magically everything's okay. But if you do everything else well and then you like, it's like doing everything at like a Ritz Carlton level and then like you want to take your clients to stay at a super eight.

It's like it doesn't make any sense. It's like it does it's not congruent. It stands out like this sore thumb. It's like, you know, putting lipstick on a pig. It's just horrible. And but because a lot of the decision makers, unfortunately in corporate America even today are a bunch of of you know dudes like guys emotional intelligence wise oftentimes don't have the emotional intelligence to understand like the little things matter like the little details the packaging how it's

presented when it's given like all that stuff communicates whether or not the other person you know like actually matters yeah and i hadn't really of course also being a guy i never actually really thought about this until you mentioned it until we started talking about this of course the gift has to be all about the recipient not the giver no logo no walking billboard, but people will come up with the counterargument like, well, college football teams, their stuff is all logoed up, or a lot of people wear logos and they wear them proudly. Look at Apple. Look at Atari.

People are buying reprinted retro Atari T-shirts or their favorite band or something. So separate this for us because there's an element of identity that goes into the guy who wears the Apple shirt. There's an element of identity that's worn by the geek that wears the retro Atari shirt or the Guns and Roses, retro 80s, 90s. T-shirt that's different than the person is like, thanks for the Raytheon windbreaker, right? Yeah, exactly. So the difference is the question that you have to ask yourself, you know, every person's different. Like there are anomalies and there's times to break the rule.

But you ask yourself, does the logo add value stay neutral or take value away? And if you're honest with yourself, most people's brands, you know, whether you're dealing with a financial advisor and accountant, you know, Raytheon, even billion-dollar companies, you know, Walmart, Apple, like, there's a certain percentage of people that when they get that logo, it is taken value away. Now, there is a subset, like we do business, the Cubs, and even small companies, they'll hire us to do all of their gifting for them. They'll give us the list of people and say, hey, send gifts four times a year to these people. This is the value of them, whatever else. And even the Cubs, I'll coach through and say, hey, like, when you're dealing with the CMO who gets logoed stuff all the time,

even though you're the cubs and your logo adds value, if you notice like Gucci and like some of the bigger like high level luxury brands, their logo is what? It's like tone on tone. It's not even seen. It's small. And I'm like, put the logo as small as possible. Like the logo add value, but make it tasteful, make it classy.

And so really at the end of the day, you have to know your audience well enough to say like, is this logo, be honest. Like, is this logo going to add value or take value away from the gift? Is it going to ruin and deface it or is it going to amplify and make people feel special. If you're giving things out to people that love Harvard and they graduated from Harvard, then yeah, put the Harvard logo on it. But if you're getting, you know, like, and if you're giving it out to a bunch of guys that, like, grew up in the 80s and they love Atari and like they've, they've, uh, self-selected themselves as being like raving fans of that brand, then by all means,

put the logo on it because that, that's personalizing it to them. But in most cases in corporate America, whether you're a startup or whether you're a big company, your brand does not add value to it. And I'm sorry to say that, like, you haven't spent billions of dollars to make it with Michael Jordan or LeBron wearing it. Like, it's a, it's fine as a brand. But if you're trying to get somebody to use the gift, and that's the thing, like, people will think gifting is just like a check the box. If, like, if you give the right gift, like, I just talked to somebody who runs a $20 million company today. And he said, John, I said, you sent my wife, you sent me and my wife these knives. And my wife last night was raving about him. And I had to

laugh out loud. He's like, he, like, you're getting. my wife, who you've never met before, to advocate and keep you top of mind at my dinner table with all my friends and family. I'm like, you SOB. Like, I can't believe that you weasled into my home. So the power, like, people don't understand, like, gifting isn't done just for fun. It's not just done to make you feel warm and fuzzy and generous at Christmas. Like, if you do gifting well in corporate America, like, I've seen people put in $100,000 and get a million dollars out. I've seen people put $1,000 and get $100,000 out. Like, if you do it well, it's an ATM machine.

And the reason companies hire us isn't just to get something off their list. They hire us because they've started to understand that, like, what's the, you know, what's a referral worth to you? Like, wow, it's worth $50,000. Well, if I gift these, you know, gifts to the right people and I get an extra five referrals next year, that means that's worth an extra quarter million dollars to my bottom line. And most people, especially dudes, they think like in very like ones and zeros, they don't realize like, man, if every, if relationships matter and how I gift matters and how I show people, appreciation matters, then I'm leaving hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars on the table by not gifting well because it really is an artifact. It really is an item that could trigger top of mind awareness and it could trigger referrals.

It could trigger somebody, you know, going out of their way to recruit their best friend who's at another company to come work for my company. Like, if you think about all the times where, like, one conversation changes a year or a company for forever. And if you can control that and be proactive with it, gifting is one of the few marketing things out there that you can actually be very strategic, like with, you know, and pick off and say, man, these hundred people matter to me. And I'm going to be super intentional. I'm not going to wait for things to happen. I'm not going to put a billboard out or a bunch of Facebook ads and wait for people to come in. Like, you can be very targeted. And yet, and one of the reasons gifting, frankly, works.

is people suck at it so bad that when you actually receive something, like the guy I was talking to today, he's like, John, like, I've never received anything like this before. Now, if he had received a hundred of those kind of gifts before,

it would have been nothing. It would have been blah, like vanilla. But because most of the stuff he's received in 40 years of owning a company have been like the typical gift cards and honey-baked hands and bottles of wine or whatever else, he was like, I can't believe you sent me this gift that had my name on it.

And the kicker was, I mean, one of the key things that we talk about is the inner circle. Most people don't understand what the inner circle is. They think, oh, I'm just, you know, a bunch of my clients like bourbon, so I'm going to send bourbon. And they really miss a huge opportunity to personalize it, not just to the person, but to their inner circle. Yeah, right. I can see it being like, thanks for the bourbon. I'm a Mormon, so I'm just going to figure out where this goes.

You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, John Rulin. We'll be right back back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to jordanharbinger.com slash subscribe. And now back to our show with John Rulin. I'm just going to tell you guys right now, you guys missed the mark on the Raytheon Windbreaker. I would totally wear the crap out of that.

If it said like death from above since 1925, that would be awesome. With the right tagline, maybe any logo works. I mean, that's possible. I mean, if you made it funny, I might wear that too. I might wear that too. Yeah, that could be some unbranding. But I know that not every gift has to be something super fancy or whatever. I didn't, you have this sort of artifact mug story that illustrates you don't have to spend 50 grand to impress a billionaire.

Yeah. Yeah, so I used to make fun of mugs as being like the worst gift on the planet to ever give. Like I remember like people would say, what's the thing? the worst. I'd be like the corporate coffee mug. Like, everybody has mugs in their cabinet that they never use because they just are around and they get more and more of them. And like people think they're creative because they put like M&Ms or Hershey Kisses in. I'm like, oh, that's so cute and sweet. And like, it's like they're the worst. And so out of nowhere, I, this, this guy reaches out to me and says, Sean, I read your book, like 10 times. I listened to like 50 of your interviews.

I love what you do. I want to help you bless your wife. And I answer these seven questions. I'm like, oh man like this is guy using my own playbook against me i'm like all right this is this is interesting so i answer the seven questions i email them back and a week later he's like john the gift's done i want to hand deliver it to you and i'm like okay that's interesting you're using the playbook against me to get face put time all right so i had a public place in case he's like this crazy stalker at my favorite restaurant i get there a couple hours early and uh in walks his kid he couldn't be 22 years old and he's carrying this tupperware container this huge tupperware container that has like claw marks on it

And I'm like, is there a freaking animal in this thing? Like, what is going on? Like, this is just getting weird. And he's like, hey, I'm an artist. My wife is a senior in college. She works at Chick-fil-A. We have her first kid on the way. He's like, this sort of the earth person.

And he proceeds to pull out this mug. It's like a $600 mug, which sounds crazy. But people pick up $600 bar tabs all the time and don't think anything of it. He pulls out this $600 mug and carved into it is my wife's whole life story. her on the farm with her dad who passed away with cancer 12 years ago and instantly I'm in tears. I'm like, this is like one of the most thoughtful things anybody's ever given to me. And he proceeded to pull out another one for me that had my whole life story on it and the Brooks Brothers story and all these other things. And then he pulled out two like we call them jars of awesome.

And it's like carved into it was my wife and I's whole life story together and another one that had every Bible verse old and New Testament, 50 lines handwritten that talked about giving or gifting. And the kicker was he drove nine and a half hours from Atlanta, Georgia for a five-minute meeting to hand these to me. And so I was like in tears. I show him to my wife who's super private and she ends up saying, John, he has to stay at our house. So I call him back up and I got home and he's like, I said, hey, do you want to stay at our house? And he's like, that makes the story better. And I'm like, it sure does. So he came over.

He spent the night. We ended up becoming a partner with him in his business. But we've made these mugs and what makes them special. Like it's just a piece of clay. Like it's literally the raw materials. costs like three bucks to make it. But over three days, he crashed these things. And because of the questions that are asked,

we're able to get into like, you know, like for David Bach, who like has written, what, like 20, 30 books? We found out that, like, his grandma, like, believed in him and, like, was the one who influenced his interest in finance when he was, like, eight years old. And so we included that in the mug. And, you know, you find out their legacy and their character traits. And they over, like I gave one the other day from a stage for a billion-dollar company

and the guy was crying because I tied in the fact that he had beat cancer and I talked to his son to get some of these inside information on who he was and what made him tick and what he wants his legacy to be. And so they're almost like, it's almost like winning the Oscars and like looking at your life like through a lens of like what did I accomplish and what was really important to me. And you put that into it's almost like a usable like Oscars or a usable trophy where, you know, almost everybody drinks coffee or tea every day. Most people have a bunch of cheap mugs that maybe they cost five or ten bucks. But because of what goes into these, I've given them to people and they've been more impactful than a $25,000 Rolex. Give one to Yonik Silver, a founder of Maverick. And he was like, dude, this is the craziest thing. And we're now making them for some of his mentors and influencers of people that, you know,

have invested in him that they can afford anything that they want. They're worth hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars. But when you give something to somebody that they can use and that honors that person and, encapsulates who they are and what matters to them. Like $600, yes, it's not inexpensive. But there's a lot of times where you could take the same principles and probably make it yourself if you were willing to do the hard work of really encapsulating and honoring that person because really that's what it does. It's like a reflection of them and reminds them every single day that they use it. Who gave it to them, number one, which is invaluable. And number two, it reminds them who they are. And it's just a

beautiful thing. Like I've given them to, I gave one to the best man in my wedding. And he's like, John, you'll never beat this gift. Like, he's like bawling. And it's a guy who's chief of staff or a big company, you know, $300 million company. And he gets whined and dined, flown to Africa and all these other places. He's like, John, this is the coolest thing. I'll use this every single day. He's like, you don't understand what this means to me.

And that's, I mean, I just, I light up when I'm able to do that for people and help other people acknowledge the most important people in their life. That's an interesting point because you're mentioning there's these people that are kind of unreachable or really hard to access. And they're getting flown to their gifts that they're getting are like, hey, come stay at the Four Seasons private villa in Hawaii for Christmas. And my family will be next door because I want FaceTime. And it's worth my company spending $58,000 to get you down here.

Because if we can get this $2 million deal from you, then it's a drop in the bucket. And then us little guys are like, uh, here's a branded pen. Right? Like, we don't stand a chance or we just can't compete with the budget. But it sounds like what you're saying is you don't have to invest two grand on the decision maker. You know, you can invest some smaller amounts in more meaningful ways that have the same effect or greater. Yeah, most of the clients that reach out to us who are doing a few million dollars a year or they work for a company that is or, you know, that might go up to a billion in revenue, but they're privately owned companies going up against publicly traded companies. and their budget is one one hundredth the size. And so they're like, John, you know, like my competitor spent $5 million on a trade show last week.

Our entire budget for this entire year to entertain clients and market is a million bucks. How do we, I can't compete when somebody has $200 million to spend and I have a million. And I'm like, yeah, you can. But you can't compete. You can't have a pissing match. You can't go and try to compete at the trade show. But what you can compete on is relationship and you can compete on thoughtfulness and you can compete on and that's really what we help companies do. I mean, we work with some of the bigger brands,

but I love working with the underdogs of companies. They're like, hey, I have a budget, a marketing budget, a biz-debt budget, a, you know, relationship budget, but it's not, it's not infinite. And but I really, you know, and they're already givers. Like I love working with CEOs and founders and VPs of sales and, you know, even solopreneurs, authors, guys that are already, they love to love on people. They've just never been shown and they've never, you know, had a company that they could outsource things too that would actually help them think strategically and say, hey, you know, if you invest, and that's why one of the reasons we take care of the inner circle is, you know, even you and I, like, we're little guys. But like when we stay at like a mastermind talks event,

like it's at a beautiful resort in Cabo or it's at a beautiful resort in Napa or Ohai. Like we get treated really well. Guess who gets the worst side of being in business when I travel? My wife. So if somebody wants to get to me, you know, I like bourbon and I like golf and all these other things. They've got to spend a lot of money on those categories. But if somebody wants to get access to somebody, oftentimes it's taking care of the people around them that get treated like dog crap. They get treated like peers or they get treated like ponds and gatekeepers and arm candy. And so, you know, my budget last year, you know, was three, 400 grand for gifts. 80% of what I send out is not targeted always at the billionaire or the decision maker.

It's targeted at their wife. It's targeted at their assistant. It's targeted at their kids or their pets because those people oftentimes aren't included in the, you know, the trips to Napa or even the ball games that are local like, you know, all these cigar outings and whatever else. So a lot of the things that we do are looking at it from a completely different angle and saying, hey, how can we make that person look like the hero to their family? How can we spend a dollar and get $10 of value? And so it's not the person who spends the most that wins. It's the person who's most creative with the dollars that they're spending. And that's really, we push hard on people, whether they want to do it themselves.

Like, I'm like, just go do it. Like, put in the time, you know, focus on it at the same level that you focus on your fantasy football league. And you'll do just fine. I promise you. Like, I, my love language isn't even gift giving. It's words of affirmation. I'm naturally an introvert. Like, if I can do it, if a freaking farm boy from Ohio is milk and goats most of his life can pull this off, like, I guarantee, like, you have the ability to do it.

Most people just play scared. and they've never had anybody believe in them enough to take the leap and start doing it. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, John Rulin. We'll be right back after this. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode.

That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com slash podcast. And if you're listening to the show in Overcast, please click that little star next to the episode. We really appreciate it. Now for the conclusion of our interview with John Rulin. I think for me, when I get, and I get stuff like every day because it's either from a sponsor or it's from some other person, a show fan, whatever. And I love that stuff that I get, especially from show fans, sponsor stuff is more just sort of corporate, but very few people, if any, send stuff for Jen.

And so I'll get something and I'll be like, oh, that's cool. And Jen'll be like, no, it was really nice of them to send this thing. And I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. She has to kind of be like, hey, snap out of it. You just got some nice thing from somebody. Because I'm just, it's like if, it's like if you had a birthday every day and people were sending you stuff, you're just like, whatever, right? And it's not that you don't appreciate it. It's just how much energy can I muster on my way to the kitchen for my five minute break to get some water between shows.

How much energy can I muster to be like, thanks for the copy of your book. It's it's uh people don't put themselves in other people's shoes and realize yeah I mean I I mean especially with Amazon even people that aren't like you know running you know world famous shows like yourself or like even me like I get gifts sent to me because you know everybody wants us to start carrying their product as a gift and so my wife does the same thing she's like John this is you know like they took the time to send it to you like acknowledge it but part of me is like they just sent me a Starbucks gift card and one of the 10 worst gifts I talk about everywhere is gift cards. So like on one hand, I want to say thank you. On another hand,

I want to say, did you not listen to anything I said or read or that was in the book? But which sounds a little bit like, like I'm a jerk. But part of me is like, man, I want people to give more thoughtful gifts. And I want people to for that to resonate. And I want people to feel loved. And, you know, when things just show up nonstop and it's just the normal vanilla stuff, Like, I'm with you. It's hard to, you know, you don't want to be fake and say thank you when you're not really thankful for something that was like, man, you sent me something promoting yourself. Like, that's not really a gift. Yeah, I think, I think the bad gifts are actually quite funny.

They make for good stories. I definitely want to hear about the Orlando Magic story that you alluded to when we talked before the show. But before that, I will say the worst one I've ever gotten, the worst gift was. This guy wanted me to read his book manuscript, which, by the way, there are people that get paid to do that. They're called editors. And he wanted me to, like, go through and see what he, what was missing from this book manuscript. And it was just unbelievable. And he told me about this at a lunch where I thought we were going to hang out.

And all he did was talk about himself. My wife couldn't stand it. He shows up later without sort of being invited. And he has a bottle of wine in the manuscript. And I was like, hey, I can't hang. out right now, just leave this here, I guess. And he was like, okay. And I was just like, does he really think that this $9 bottle of wine is going to warrant me spending like 20 hours reading this and editing this man? I just couldn't believe it because I like to help people and I really wanted to do this,

but it was like, I'm trying really hard enough to come across as like, I'm so important. My time, so valuable. It wasn't that. It's just, this is, there's so much work involved in going through something like that and to have this random dude who's not a close friend or anything drop off you know a 20 maybe it's a $20 bottle of wine i don't know with this huge piece of work was just like mind-blowingly the lack of self-awareness was just next level i'd never really seen anything like that yeah it's it's uh it's definitely a b level of uh of giftology if people think they don't understand And maybe they've never been asked to do something like that and been in your shoes before. But yeah, if you could take a step back and say, it doesn't matter what level of wine.

Like, I mean, I don't even want to do that for my closest friends. Yeah. Oh, that's the kick. Oh, wow. So I didn't even know that. So, yeah, it's people. But, I mean, you didn't chastise him. Like, he did that.

He thought he was doing a good thing. Maybe he saw somebody else do that or whatever else. And I think that's where people, they miss out, is they use gifts. gifts, you know, like it's one thing to give a gift and hope for a good result. It's another thing to use a gift. And this is how most people use it. They use it as a as a carrot and stick method. Quid pro quo is what came to mind when I saw it. Yeah, tit for tat. They want to use it as a manipulation. Like, I gave you something. Now you owe me something. And nobody likes, I don't care who you are. Nobody likes to feel manipulated. We all want to be appreciated. And, you know,

it's Vaynerchuk's, you know, like he's made it popular. Like the whole jab, jab, jab, jab, jab right hook like you got to you know it's not jab right hook it's oh you know giving value over and over again and then you earn the right maybe to ask but you don't assume that the other person you don't make the other person feel like the gifts were given with or whatever it was given with strings attached and that's where people completely mess up it's like yeah i'm gonna get i'm gonna love on people and i hope that that brings me good things and oftentimes it it brings me insane things but oftentimes people they think that they can give the gift and then do the ask and they completely ruined the gift, even if it was a great gift, a $9 bottle of wine. I actually, I was at a conference.

Vern Harnish has a conference called Fortune's Gross Summit, and we spoke there, and somebody came up to me and said, John, I hired a firm, like a placement firm, and paid them $80,000 to find me a sales rep. And they sent me a $7 bottle of wine with a printed card in the mail. That was their thank you gift. and they think we lost, they think they lost the business because we found somebody cheaper for our next placement.

I actually refused to do business with them because they sent me such an, a cheesy, like, thoughtless, like I was, I couldn't believe that they sent me that, like, it wouldn't even a handwritten note. If they had sent me a handwritten note had been really thoughtful,

but they mailed it in, it came, like, from Amazon or some online e-commerce company, a $7 bottle of wine showed up with this printed generic card. And I was like, I just paid you 80, thousand dollars and that's your way of showing gratitude that's your way of building the relationship

they're like they're like we'll never do business with them again that's really funny so they spent seven bucks to piss off a really good client and i and you know they didn't know that though because they didn't write a note and say you're such an idiot like here's why we're not doing business with you and i think there's a lot of those subtle cues like people aren't picking up on it like when they give things out they're like well people said thank you or we didn't hear anything bad and it's like well, nobody's going to be rude and tell it like it is. Like, that's the challenge is nobody's honest with gifting because it feels like such a jerk move. That's really fine.

I think, you know, I said the worst gift was that bottle of wine in the manuscript. Actually, I take it back. I had a girlfriend. It's so funny. I broke up with her shortly after this. No big surprise. She, for my birthday, she got me an edible arrangement. Do you know what that is?

Yeah. Yeah, a bunch of fruit cut up to look like flowers. Right, right. Like, I am not your secretary. I'm your boyfriend. You got me a bunch of strawberries that are cut to look like roses. What did I ever do to you? Right?

Like, it was so funny. It's, uh, that's, yeah, food is definitely on our 10, 10 worst gifts to give list. And I break the rules occasionally on food, but 99 out of 100 times. Like, there's so many things that can go. wrong with giving food, especially in corporate America. People in 2019 are on every diet on the planet with gluten and paleo and anti-dairy and anti-whatever. Like it offends people.

People won't eat it. Even if they do eat it, you know, you spent $30 to get one impression. And people like, what are you talking about? I'm like, well, you sent that edible arrangement or the bottle of wine or the chocolates or the brittle. You know, it's like, oh, we got famous peanut brittle. I'm like, great. People eat the peanut brittle.

They spent 20 bucks. on it thinking you're like this really like gifting shark and you spent $20 for them to think of you one time. I'm like if you would have sent them something like the mug, it costs more, but they're going to think about you once for the next 10, once a day for the next 10 years. That's 3,000 thoughts. That's 3,000 impressions. People measure everything in marketing, but when it comes to gifting, they don't realize when they give stuff like food, you know, boyfriends and girlfriends, like that's, you know, that's different. But in general, like they're like, they don't realize they can offend people it's going to be gone in 24 hours like that's not how you

make a lasting impression everybody says oh we're all about being memorable i'm like well then give something that people will have you know five months from now or five years from now like that's that's how you trigger thoughts and emotions and memories not by giving stuff that's gone in in 20 seconds what about the timing i know you recommend don't do birthdays don't do christmas but that sort of people do this all the time and you've got some reasons to to do gifting in business. You've got like your three reasons. Can you go through these? Yeah, yeah. So, so timing is just as important as the gift. Like it's that, like, it holds the same amount of weight. Most people come to us and say, John, let me see your catalog. I'm like,

we don't have a catalog. Like, what do you mean? I'm like, our team of gift, I'll just pick the gift for you. Like, you're, you thought about gifts for 15 seconds. My team's been thinking about for 15 years. Like, we pick the gift. You're going to shop with your own rose color glasses. And I'm like, they're like, but we want to send a gift after a referral every time. And I'm like, Well, you say you're in the relationship building business. If you send a gift after referral, what did you just turn that referral into? Yeah, it's a transactional. It's transactional.

It's a tit for tat. And so the timing, a gift showing up, that's the reason that I can send the same gift to a thousand people. But because it shows up just on some random Tuesday in the middle of April, and the reason that you send a gift, you know, there's three main reasons. one is just because. And people are like, what do you mean? I'm like, nope, not a birthday. I call them, you know, you're not allowed to be an ABC gifter. Now, personally, you need to be an ABC gifter.

Like, you can't forget your wife's anniversary birthday and Christmas. But in business, you know, people are getting things all the time. And on the anniversary's birthday's Christmas, it's just noise. But if a gift shows up just out of the blue and says, hey, man, I was just thinking of you. Hey, I really appreciate the relationship. Appreciate who you are. Like, that's thoughtful. That's like, wow.

That person, you know, like in our day and age with Facebook, like it reminds you. LinkedIn, everything reminds you of birthdays and, you know, people have their Facebook page that they haven't heard from people in 20 years except on their birthday. It's become like this like running joke. It's not impactful. Whereas a gift shows up just out of the blue just because that's super important. The other big reason to send a gift, and I do this a lot, if somebody gives me, you know, five minutes of their time, their time is their one asset that they can never get back.

You talk to Warren Buffett or anybody, like, they're like, that's the thing they value the most. Everybody should value it the most. Like, it's an asset that once it's gone, it's gone. Like, you're never going to get those five minutes back. So if somebody takes the time to get coffee with me or, like, I hate the word, pick your brain, like, by the way. Like, it basically says, I want your time for free and I'm going to give you nothing of value. So I hate phrases like that that basically ask for, you know, somebody's most valuable asset with nothing in return. but the time is their most valuable losses.

So if somebody gives me five minutes of their time, 50 minutes of their time, I'll send them a two, three hundred dollar gifts. And people like, that's insane. I'm like, if they're a busy CEO and they gave you 30 minutes of their time, what was their time worth? What was that 30 minutes worth to them? Just monetarily.

And they're like, oh, I don't know, a few hundred dollars. I'm like, no, it's probably a few thousand dollars. So I still feel indebted to that person. They give me 30 minutes to their time. I send them a two, three hundred dollar gift. that sounds radical and crazy, but when you acknowledge somebody who has, you know, like a lot of people pulling on their time and asking for their time for free, and it's one of the reasons why, you know, we love sending gifts ahead of time. If somebody wants to get access to somebody, it's basically taking Vaynerchuk's approach of being an attention broker. And I'm pre-buying their attention.

I'm basically saying, I know your time's valuable. I want to show you that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm willing to send you gifts ahead of time to show you that I value what you're doing and, value your time and I'm willing to put it up front to show you that. And I know that that doesn't earn me the right to get your time, but I'm willing to show that I'm different than almost everybody else that's asking for your time. So when you can give gifts and have them show up just out of the blue, like for us, I'll send to my top 250 relationships. I'll send it four times a year, once a quarter. So it doesn't feel like, you know, the Chevy Chase Jelly of the Month

club. Like people are like, oh, I want to send a gift every month. And I'm like, that's, that's, you know, that's trying too hard. Like, you're, you're going about it the wrong. way. Like if you can afford to do it every month, like that, like put it into, you know, other things. But something showing up in February for us, the next year I'm going to send it in March. Otherwise, the other person starts to feel like they're expecting the gift, whether it's an employee or client. And I, and you start to give gifts out of obligation. And that's the reason Christmas gifts are so bad is it's become, if nobody gave Christmas gifts, Christmas gifts would be an awesome gift. But everybody does it be out of guilt and out of tradition and out of obligation. And so it

just becomes noise. Like most people's conference tables are ready to collapse from all the crap that they're getting. And so for us, the timing is one of those magic things that most people get wrong. And if you can get that part right, you can even give sometimes a crappy gift. But when it shows up just out of the blue, and it's the only box that they open that day, you might get lucky and actually like really impact somebody because they're like, wow, this gift is a great. And it's a gift is a great but at least they were thinking of me and it's the one thing that they opened up that day that's that's really funny I can imagine that to be the case I love the the idea that timing is important and that you should try to not be in with all the other the other noise in fact I used

to back in the day go through my Facebook connections and wish everyone a happy birthday but I did so the about a week prior or two days prior and I had a calendar set up to do this And I still do, I just don't do it with everyone. And I get an alarm 48 to 72 hours prior, which means I'm the first person to wish them a happy birthday. But it's not inappropriately early, unless you're Russian, in which case you're not supposed to do it early for some reason. But you wish them a happy birthday, and it's great because people go, oh, it's a little early. And I'm like, yeah, exactly, because day of their Facebook, their inbox, all of the automated systems where they've put in their birthday for the last 20 years online, all of those are sending notifications. and you can't cut through the noise.

And then, of course, it's like your birthday posts on your Facebook wall, so people start writing like, hey, happy birthday and all this stuff on the wall, and then you put your comment in there, and it's like, surprise, they never see it, right? So if you're the person that calls or sends a text 48 hours beforehand, you're first and you're sort of above the fold in terms of attention

because it's not in their email inbox, it's not in their social media, it's on their phone. And that's not even a gift, but the timing concept holds up in that the ABC gifting, right. It's like, oh, I got a card here from Wickham Ford and Daily City. I bought a car from them in 98. You know, thanks, Merry Christmas, hoping you and yours have a great holiday season. I'm just like immediate recycle bin, right? Yeah.

Yeah, it's the timing matters, man. And that's smart to hit them up 48 hours. Yeah, being first. Well, it's like when you're raising money. Like Gaynard or some of the guys talked about, like, you either want to be the biggest gift, a donation, you want to be the first one to jump in and make a donation, or you want to be the last one to help them hit their goal.

Everybody else, like they're appreciated, but, you know, as human beings, we can only focus on so many things. And so the timing, being, you know, scheduling your timing properly and saying, hey, if I'm going to do this, make sure it actually makes an impact and matters. There's some people like, you know, they just feel good about wishing happy birthday. But when you're in business, like there's dollars and cents attached to it, like, do you want to be strategic?

We only have a certain amount of time. And so if you are going to take the time to do it, like, that's brilliant to schedule the 48 hours ahead of time. I may steal that. What about the budget for this? Because a lot of people are going, okay, I get it expensive, doesn't necessarily have to be expensive, but you're paying for impressions. Do you have kind of a rule of thumb, especially for businesses where they're like, I can't spend 10 grand on gifts or sure, how much do I spend? Do we try to wow everyone?

I mean, what's the rule of thumb here? Yeah, I don't care if you're like, when I started this, I was selling knives exclusively, you know, intern with Kuckko just trying to pay for med school. And I invested my own dollars. So a lot of times people like, well, my company won't sponsor it. And I'm like, do you make a commission from sales? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, you can reinvest a percentage of your own money. Because if you're making money off the relationships and you're probably going to be at another company five years from now, Do you want those people to still be in your network? They're like, yeah.

I'm like, well, then invest in them like it's your own business. Treat it like you're an entrepreneur. You know, because you're those relationships, if you're playing the long game, which everybody's sexy to talk about, I'm like, then I don't care if you're a sales rep. I don't care if you're, you know, an employee. I don't care, whatever. Like, anybody can do this principle with their key business relationships.

Even if those relationships are only three people. Maybe it's mentors or advisors. But our rule of thumb for any business is to reinvest somewhere between five, five and 15% of net profit from that relationship. And so five to 15% of the net of the business. So if you're a small business and you made 100 grand last year, that means you could reinvest between five and $15,000 back into your relationships. And sometimes people push back and like, that's a lot. And I'm like, you get to keep 85 to 95% of the profit. They bought their own gift, basically. Like you're reinvesting money that you already made. Like, it's a small amount

to keep that person as a client or a relationship or as a referral partner as a sponsor or whatever it is. You hopefully, if you reinvest back into them, guess what happens when you love on people? They reciprocate and that relationship grows. So your sales grow typically. And the sexy part is people will say, John, you know, how many sales reps do you have? You have like 50 sales reps? And I'm like, no, I have about a thousand.

They're like, you have a thousand sales rep? I'm like, yep, I take all of my clients and treat them so well. CEOs of a billion-dollar companies, I love on them so well. I inspire them to be actively loyal and go advocate on my behalf. And they're like, really, does that work? And I'm like, well, let's put it this way. I have one client, the Cleveland Indians. I loved on them for about six years.

And in one day, they referred me personally one-on-one to 38 other teams. Wow. In one day. I'm like, most people will give a gift or two and say, I, it doesn't work. I'm like, how many of you are willing to play the long game and invest in relationships, a percentage of your profits? And I say, take out, like, whether you're a giver, you're thoughtful, you're, you know, like, you're, you know, like you're, you know, like you're somebody that you consider yourself a good person. Like casinos invest 20% of revenue back into their high rollers and into their whales.

Not, not of profits of revenue. So you're talking, like, they're willing to invest. If it's a, you know, a million dollar client, they'll reinvest 200 grand because they know if they don't reinvest in that relationship, where are they going? They're going right down the street to another casino. They're going somewhere else. So if a casino, and they're like in the business of what, printing money, like they want to make a lot of money. If a casino understands that you reinvest back into your relationships, 20% of revenue, I actually, when I found that out, I was shocked. I was like, I'm actually lowballing it at the 5 to 15% of net.

We do 20% of net. That's our rule. And I'm like, the reason we can get access to the people that we do and we, you know, like a farm boy can get the Chicago Cubs as clients is, you know, 18 years of doing this for companies, like we've learned, like you oftentimes you can't outspend when it's when it comes to relationships. Like there are times you're like, man, that's a lot of money. But then three years later, like, wow, I'm so glad I did that. I'm so glad I invest in those relationships. I'm so glad I invested in those employees because, you know, you start to to bear fruit and reap the rewards of doing so. But that five to 15 percent number is is kind of our rule of thumb.

You know, funny about this. I just have a memory that's so sticky for, bad gift experiences, which probably illustrates some point here that it's like better to not do it than to do it poorly. But I remember watching this Louis Therud documentary, if you know who that is, and he was doing some kind of special about gambling. And he interviewed this guy, and the guy was, he was some mattress mogul from Canada, if memory serves. And he's, you know, shoveling 50 or $100 bills into these dumb gambling machines.

And he's like, are you even having fun right now? And the guy's like, eh, it's all right, whatever. He just clearly got some sort of issue where he's spending like a million dollars at this casino. And they filmed this little throwaway B-roll segment of him talking with the concierge of the casino where he is. And they're like, he's like, hey, am I going to get some gifts or what? You know, my wife wants to go shopping. And the concierge is like, yeah, I'll get you something tomorrow. And the guy's like, well, hurry up.

She's getting bored. And then the next day comes by. And he's like, where's the stuff? She's really bored. You know, she's running around on her own. And she wants some sort of spa stuff or whatever or some stuff. And they're like, oh, we'll get it tomorrow. And I'm thinking, ooh, this is not good.

Like, this guy's probably already spent 20 grand a day, the past two days, you know, or more. I don't know what's going on. And then on day three, they're filming him and they show the concierge come up and go, here's a $600 gift certificate to coach, you know, like the coach store for the handbags or whatever in the casino. know and he goes that's it are you kidding me and he was super pissed and he was on camera so they embarrassed him and they basically said yeah we're not investing in you at all and they did it in a way that was super public and they didn't probably think much about this when they were filming it but now it really struck me as they would have been better off not giving him anything than being like here's what something that you consider to be a cheap gift certificate and it's embarrassing

embarrassing you on camera while you're doing this documentary about gambling about you. It's like a triple whammy. It was just a gut punch, you know, because he's like, I've spent so much money here and they gave me a $600 coupon to some purse store. Yeah, it's, it happens, it doesn't usually happen on camera. So most people don't get a chance to, to see the impact of it. But I mean, I've seen, I've seen casinos, you know, go and get a, you know, three, four, $500,000 car custom made flown over.

over to Macau or China or some of the places where, you know, some of the guys that love gambling and are, you know, they'll roll in as a whale and, you know, a couple million dollars a night, you know, is on the table. And, but they, you know, rather than just, hey, go pick out a car, it's like they went and made it custom personalized to that person and they understood the, you know, the host, understood the importance of not just doing the gift, but flying it over and delivering it to them and being there in person. And, and, and, uh, it. It took days, even weeks out of his time. But when you're dealing with your most important relationships, like people, you know, it sounds like a lot of money until you, until that person goes away. And then you look at your like your year and you're like, man, I thought we were going to have a better year. What happened? And they're like, oh, we lost those free accounts that were worth, you know, a quarter million dollars.

And like, wow, I guess we, you know, the gifts and the love and the appreciating those people, that five to 15 percent looks really, really small when those people go away. or when you lose a key employee. And they go down the street and they start selling for somebody else or whatever else. And you're like, there's a vacuum created. Most people don't understand. And they wait until it's too late. And then like, gosh, we should have done something.

But in the moment, it seems like a lot of money until you lose it. That's a good point. That's an interesting job. Can you imagine working for a casino or a company and your job is to think of amazing stuff to get for people? And then you've got to travel to Hong Kong to show up with the gift. Yeah, it's, you know, we've done some pretty crazy radical gifts, but, but I haven't had to fly to Hong Kong or Macau yet to deliver any, you know, half million dollar Ferraris or anything. But, but yeah, I mean, those guys that are, you know, in Vegas or Macau, like they, they, when there's millions of dollars on the line, they're willing to do dang near anything to, to keep the person excited and happy and, you know, coming back. And yeah, it would be a wild job.

No question. You've got this $100 giftology challenge. I'd love to leave us with this because I think this is kind of, this sounds really fun. I kind of want to do it because it sounds like something that would be, that would make me feel really good and possibly also illustrate some of the benefits of what we've been talking about today. Yeah. So I have a mentor and I think he learned it from. There's a guy in Kansas City who he doesn't show his face, but he goes around with a hundred. $100,000 of $100 bills and just finds random people at gas stations and at department stores

and grocery stores and just hands them a $100 bill or a stack $100 bills and just basically play Santa Claus for that month and it's like a secret Santa. And my mentor said, man, I don't have $100,000 necessarily to pass that every Christmas, but I'm going to start doing this to other people and he inspired me to start doing it. And I know a number of other people. and so I've actually You know, it's just such a cool thing But you basically get a crisp $100 bill

Which, you know, it's 100 bucks It's still $100 but a lot of times, you know You go out to a club or whatever else and you buy drinks And you spend $100 dollars, you don't even think twice about it But you keep a $100 bill in your pocket Chris $100 bill and you go find somebody that you have no connection to So it's not somebody that could do a favor for you It's a friend or family member.

You go find a janitor, a person at the gas station person You just feel like, hey, I just feel called like this person needs a little pick me up, a little love, a little giftology, and you hand them the $100 and you just basically, you know, say, hey, you know, you're loved. I felt like I wanted to give this to you and, you know, see the response and walk off. And I've done it to janitors. I've done to people at gas stations and people, I mean, they're flabbergasted. But what I love about it is, you know, all of us, I feel like we have a gratitude muscle. We all, you know, a lot of people that are listening to your show, like maybe they're, you know, a sales rep or their startup or their business

owner, whatever it is, like, we all could be doing better, like, we all are striving for more, but at the same time, like, we've all been given a lot. We all been gifted in different ways, a lot. And what's interesting is when you start to take the focus off of yourself and you start to say, like, you're willing to pour into other people and love other people, whether you're a person of faith or believe in God or not, like, I think that just, you know, the way the universe is wired that when you start loving on people and take the focus off yourself, like, there's good things that start to come from that. You start to realize that, like, there's a lot of people out there that are worse off than you and that you've been given a lot. And it, it almost becomes,

for me and I've seen other people, it becomes addictive, like where you get excited and inspired to do more and you show up differently in your relationships. And so I think working that gratitude muscle and putting yourself out there and being willing to, you know, $100 a month, that's $1,200 a year. It's not, you know, it's not a small amount of money. So maybe it hurts a little bit, but it's not so much that it's going to put you under. But I challenge people to do that for 12 months and come back to me and say it wasn't worth it.

Most people end up saying, I'm going to do more. I'm going to do more gifts. I'm going to write more handwritten notes. I'm going to put more, I'm going to love on more people and take that more seriously and be more intentional with it versus just being a taker and wait. for people to give to me. I'm going to go out there and pour into other people and see what happens. And it doesn't count if you put it on YouTube

while you do it, right? Yeah, I don't think it needs to be recorded. I mean, I think just doing it anonymously is probably the best way to do it. Yeah, because of course there's a part of me that's like, oh, that would make a really good video, and then it's like, that's not quite the point of what we're doing here, Jim.

Yeah, it's, I think maybe that there's a ripple effect and inspires other people, but I think it kind of ruins it for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I think also it's a little bit self-serving. Like, look at me helping these poor people. Because I'm imagining giving it to a janitor and having them be like, I don't need

your money, dude. I have a job. Go fly a kite, man. Get out of my face. I think if you present it the right way of saying, hey, man, I respect what you're doing. And I want to acknowledge the fact of, you know, the amount of people that you're serving. And I feel called that you're supposed to have this. and I think, yeah, if you go up to somebody and treat them like a sympathy case,

but I think most people that are out there, they're so shocked by it, they're so shocked by the generosity, they're so shocked by the $100 bill. And what's cool, if you've ever read the book, The Shack, it's sold like 10 or 20 million copies. That book, the reason they got published, the guy wrote that to teach God to his kids. He had like eight kids. Somebody left $5.20 bills in his mailbox randomly when he didn't have two. cents to rub together and it gave you gave him enough money to go buy milk bread fill up his

car with gas and he went to office max and printed eight copies of the book for his kids for Christmas. And one of his buddies ended up getting a hold of the book and seeing it and was so inspired by it that they took it to a publisher, I think a self-published place and printed so many copies and covered the cost. It was a self-published book, but it's literally like there's a movie made about it now and it's gone worldwide like 10, 20 million copies of this book. And it came from $100. You know, like it's, it's cool to see.

Now, oftentimes when you do something like that, you don't necessarily get to see what that $100 turns into or, you know, that person's having a bad day. And, I mean, think about the times where you get the note or the text or the phone call or something that, like, man, you're in a dark place or a bad place. I know I've been in places before where something happened that spark something in me that said, hey, like, you know, the world's not as bad as I think it is right now where I'm not in a bad of places I feel. And so I think you get more and more people out there looking for opportunities to just bless and love on people, like good things are going to happen. John, thank you very much, man. Where can people find more from what you're doing? Of course, we'll link to all that in the show notes as well. Yeah, well, I think we kind of alluded to, you know, the question I get most often is, John, what, like, tell me the worst gifts to avoid giving.

Like, just, like, can you give me, like, bumpers? Like, if I'm bowling, like, I don't want to go in the gutter. You know, can I give something to my assistant or my team to just avoid giving, like, the crappy gifts? and then I'll be better off. And so we created a white paper that whether a client is doing a half a million in revenue or they're doing 500 million in revenue, we walk them through the 10 worst gifts to avoid giving. If you want to generate referrals, if you want to impact people, and it gives a little explanation. It's just a one pager. But if they then go to thegiversedge.com, thegiversedge.com and download that for free.

And we also send some of our best articles and tips and kind of tricks and behind the scenes of what we do and how we do. it's all free resource for your listeners. But that's a great place to start. They can also, if they get inspired, I want to go buy the book on Amazon, it's like six different versions on Amazon. But take the free resources and run, and then if you get inspired and want to buy a copy of Giftology,

that's our entire playbook is in that book. John, thank you very much, my friend. Hey, thanks for having me, Jordan. Great big thank you to John Ruling for today. If you want to know how I managed to book all these great guests and manage my network, well, I'm not just gifting, not yet anyway. I'm going to definitely start that practice.

I've been doing a little bit of it, but he, of course, is the master. But check out our Level 1 course, which is free. That's over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash Level 1. Maybe that's a gift for everyone, right? I know you think you're going to do it later, but do it now. You can't make up for lost time when it comes to relationships. Dig that well before you get thirsty. Once you need those relationships, you are simply too late.

Look, four minutes a day, you can do it. I wish I knew this stuff 10 years ago. It has definitely just been crucial to everything we've built here with the Jordan Harbinger show. You can find that at Jordan Harbinger.com slash level one. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from John Rulin. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. This show is produced in association with Podcast One, and this episode was co-produced by Jason, no refunds, no exchanges, DeFilippo, and Jen Harbinger.

Show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty. And I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode, I hope. share the show with those you love, and even those you don't. We've got a lot more. We're very excited for some upcoming shows here. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen.

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