The Jordan Harbinger Show - 179: How to Really Help a Hoarder | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: March 29, 2019

Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now, let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: What can you do when your parents are hoarders with health issues who get enraged when you try to help them? Your calmness under stress seems like a positive trait in a medical professional. But are your peers right to call you disinterested? When you dislike idle chit chat, how do you respond to the small talk question "How's business?" without being uncivil? Is becoming a police officer because you want to help people a good idea for someone who's never really dealt with trauma, or could you be throwing yourself in the deep end? How might an over-55 sales professional re-entering the job market go about starting a consulting career? Jake from Intuit stops by to help us cope with financial crises around tax time. How do you beat feeling envious of others who maintain the discipline to see their self-improvements through? When you're serious about networking, should you regularly cull connections on LinkedIn with people you don't really know? Life Pro Tip (via Mark Frauenfelder's Recomendo Newsletter): For Starbucks people traveling. When you're leaving a foreign country and still have some of the local currency, take it to a Starbucks and load it onto a gift card. You can use the card later in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Mexico, and the Republic of Ireland. Recommendations of the Week: The Dropout Podcast, The Dropout on 20/20, and The Inventor: Out for Blood in Silicon Valley Quick shoutouts to Benjamin Torrero in Mexico City, Ankie Hille Hagen in Norway, and Officer Tim De La Pena! Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. I'm here with producer Jason DeFilippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests. And this week, we had Bo Lotto talking about perception and how our brains create useful illustrations, like our senses and other things that we think are real, but are not. And we had Michelle Latterman talking about types of networkers, connectors and the spectrum of super connectors. And of course, how we can become a better connector ourselves. I also write every so often on the blog. The latest post is about how to stop blaming other people. We go deep. It's a great topic and the solution might surprise you because it's not just simple accountability and taking responsibility for ourselves. There's a lot of good takeaways in that one as well. So make sure you have a look and a listen to all of that. There. The articles, of course, are on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash articles. Of course, our primary mission is to pass along our guests and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have comments.

conversations directly with you. And that's what we're going to do today here on feedback Friday. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Try to keep them concise if you can. It really increases the chance your question will get answered on the air. So since we did the Clinton Watts show, I've been getting bombarded on Twitter by Russian troll bots and people. Actual people, not just bots? I think not just bots. Yeah, they're real people. And I asked Clinton about this and he said, yeah, they're real people. They're just not who they say they are. And you look at the profiles and a lot of them are like hashtag hands off Venezuela sovereignty hashtag freedom and you're like freedom from but not from oppressive dictators that kill their own people

and starve their own people yeah you know freedom from foreign intervention from the pesky imperialist united states and us pig dogs yeah and it'll be like just a Russian living in london and I'm like just a Russian living in Moscow more likely yeah or up at four o'clock in the morning routinely. Yeah, it was the Internet Research Center, those guys. Yeah, and there's just tons. And it's weird because you can, it's really amateur sort of manipulation where, and they don't care.

They're just trying to convince dumb people, but they were like, oh, Jordan had Clinton on the show, therefore Jordan is a racist because Clinton hates Russians. Therefore, since Jordan's racist, that must mean he's a Nazi. So they're all like, you're a Nazi. And I'm just like, it's a short throw to Hitler, right? Yeah, it was just like, they just jump right to it. and I'm just like, this is really dumb. And they're like, I'm reporting you for bigotry.

And I got an email from Twitter that was like, don't worry, we're ignoring all of this bullshit. Okay. It would be nice if you could get an IP address for every tweet. It really would. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just thought it was really funny that Twitter sent me a note that was like,

hey, I know you're getting your account reported, but we don't care. You're not doing anything wrong, and this is par for the course from these people. So, like, they're totally aware of this. Yeah, probably, in part because of Clint. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I noticed one of the. people that tweeted at me that was really the most like one of the original sort of aggressive

people she had 98,000 tweets but she had joined in January 2016. That's a lot. So doing the math, and I'm getting the, I'm going off memory here, but doing the math, she had something like her, she had tweeted like every eight to 10 minutes since joining Twitter. Yeah, that's 24-7. Yeah. 24-7. And I was just like, hey, this seems fake. You've tweeted 98,000 times. She's like, seems fake, that's ridiculous. You're being, you're a Nazi. It was just like, and I thought, there's no way this is one person controlling this. It's got to be an army of people that they see a tweet come in. Yeah. And it pops up in their custom software as needing a reply. And then the first available internet warfare person in the Moscow station hits a reply. Yeah, it just bounces around

between terminals. Exactly. Like whoever's, whoever's up next gets the, gets the tweet. Exactly. Yeah, it's so interesting. Such an interesting phenomenon. And then they gave up after a while because I took Clinton's advice and just like didn't engage much. Don't feed the trolls, man. Don't feed the trolls. Yeah, they got bored and they probably went out of something else. And we're back in L.A. doing stuff in person.

It's going to be a fun week. I'm here for the week, which is always fun. And we're here at Shay Jason. That's right. Back in the hood, back into crib. That's right. That's right. Shea Jason doing shows, doing shows, putting my candidco.com.

Slash Jordan Aliners on your brand new desk. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for swapping some spit. Yep, no problem. Well, I don't think we really swapped spit. You swapped it with my furniture. Okay, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Just to be clear here, people. Anyway, we've got some fun ones. We've got some doozies, as always. I cannot wait to dive into this. Jason, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Hi, Jordan and crew. I'm in my late 30s, and since I was 12, both of my parents have been hoarders. My dad was a firefighter and fire marshal. He used to collect model and hot wheels cars, which are now piled floor to ceiling in the basement, while my mom, an ex-school teacher, saves every newspaper she's ever seen and saved most of my clothes and everything else since I was born.

She cleans her recyclables incessantly and even tears up paper by hand into microscopic pieces to compost, which is a new development over the last year. In addition, we've had many deaths in the family over the last few, years and she's accumulated their papers and useless things too. The newspapers are piled up all over the house, up over the windows in some places, and are legitimately blocking exits. She's filled up every room upstairs with junk to the point that you can't open the doors. I once bagged 70 bags of newspapers when I was younger, and she wouldn't let me take them away before she looked through them all. So I put them in the garage thinking it would be a motivator and she would get rid of them. Of course, they filled that up too. She hasn't slept in their bed in years because she covered it up and

sleeps in a reclining chair in the den downstairs. My dad has had three hip replacements about 15 years ago and has been addicted to Oxycontin ever since. It's led to massive pain, depression, and him sleeping most of the time in a bed in the living room. He has trouble walking, using a walker to get around, though there isn't enough room in the house to use it because of all the piles, which he constantly knocks over. He still has his credit card and buys tons of coins from the Danbury Mint in similar places nonstop. My mom complains but won't take his card away. The coin, aren't even worth the money he pays for them. I'm going to be left dealing with these and thousands of dollars of Hot Wheels cars, shells, and rocks he's collected over the years. I'm worried for the

weight this bears on the house and their safety because if something would happen, they wouldn't make it out in time. I've brought this up and tried bringing my mom to a psychologist years ago, but she played controlling mind games and refused to go back because they recommended OCD meds. My brother brought her to his psychologist for his own issues, but she wouldn't never mention this to me. I've tried to clean the house with her knowing and behind her back. But it caused so much stress and consumed so much of my time, it wasn't worth it. When I was in my teens, I cleaned out all of the garbage in the kitchen. It was excited to have her come back to a clean house.

She basically ignored me for days because she was so angry and obsessed over what I got rid of. She's okay with me taking my father's things out, but she's still so controlling and overbearing about everything. It's not worth the effort of her passive aggressive, mean behavior, and mind games. As you can imagine, it's a constant worry in turning into a serious issue as my father's health declines and the combustibles pile up. I would appreciate any advice you can give buried under my parents' issues. Wow. It's serious business. I mean, it's really sad.

I've seen that show hoarders, as have we all. And that, I feel, probably oversimplifies the problem. They almost turned it into like a cleaning problem. Yeah. And it's not a cleaning problem. It's really a serious mental disorder. This obviously is a legit hoarding. I actually Googled how to tell if you're a hoarder,

and there's a picture rating scale, one through nine. it's like, what does your room look like? What is your kitchen look like? Really? What does your living room look like? Oh, wow. And anything above four is hoarder status. And let me just say, a lot of people that you don't think are hoarders, according to this, are absolutely hoarders.

Yeah, I bet. Including every teenager pretty much. Yeah, with all their piles of t-shirts on the floor. Yeah. It's almost like a little bit skewed in one direction. But hoarders feel safe and comfortable with their attachment to things. That's what, that's what this really is. It's an OCD-related issue.

That's why your mom didn't want to go back because she was probably being told some uncomfortable truths. And at this point, at their age, there's just not much you can do here unless they're willing to get help for this. And it sounds like they're not willing to get help for this. I mean, the fact that your mom is sleeping in a recliner, it sounds so uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, I've been in a lazy boy before and fell asleep or had a couple beers too many and passed

out. And your back is killing you the next day. So what this tells me is that they're aware that this is causing problems. It is causing them physical pain almost for sure, but they're not able to control the compulsion to collect things and pack up stuff. So it's not just like, well, this is a really negative habit. I mean, by the time you're spending time sleeping in the living room on a chair, you're long past the whole ability to rationalize that this is normal behavior.

They know that something's wrong. And it's important to encourage them to seek professional help. The earlier a person seeks help with something like hoarding, the more successful the treatment tends to be. Now that said, it sounds like we're in lost cause territory here. Some people believe hoarding tendencies are related to inherited brain patterns. So keep an eye out for this and other people that you're related to. They're often related to anxiety, OCD. For some, hoarding begins following a significant trauma event as well.

So there might be something in the past year. I was surprised to hear that one in 50 Americans actually have some form of this, and only 15% of that seek professional help. That's crazy. So here are some do's and don'ts when it comes to helping a hoarder. So first of all, and you already tried this, don't remove things from their home without consent. It seems like, hey, look, if we just clean everything up while they're on vacation, they'll be better off. But it doesn't address the extreme emotional distress caused by the idea of losing valuable or important items. It really just, it causes more anxiety.

Throwing things away, getting rid of them without their permission, this is not a long-term plan. They're going to revert back to their old behavior. And on top of that, they're going to be upset with you. I mean, you saw this with your mom. And this then, this damages your relationship, which damages your ability to encourage her to seek professional help. Also, don't enable the behavior. It doesn't sound like you're doing that. But a lot of people, when it comes to hoarding, they're like, well, my mother and I bond

over going to yard sales and her buying a trunk full of crap. You know that happens. Don't clean up after them. Sounds like in this case it's not even possible. And don't expect the cleaning process or the healing process if it does begin to happen overnight. It takes a long time for hoarders to get to the point of having a house that is literally unsafe.

And I feel for you. I mean, you're imagining your house going up in flames with your parents inside it. It is sad. It is sad. But you cannot force them to do this. What you should do is encourage them to seek professional help. You can't force people to do that against their will, as you know. but you can find them resources and make them available.

Take the time to learn about hoarding. The TV show thing is kind of like the pop culture version. It's not a correct picture of hoarding and how to help hoarders. You need credible sources like Mayo Clinic, National Alliance on Mental Illness, American Depression and Anxiety Association of America. We can link to some of those in the show notes. Do help them if they ask for help. During or after receiving professional treatment, a lot of times hoarders want assistance.

You can call 1-800 Got Junk. They're great for this. my friend who's been on the show, Brian Scudamore, he started that company. They see this stuff all the time, he said. And do listen to them. I know it's hard not to judge them. I know it's tough not to be like, you have asthma or you have a problem and you're hoarding and you're making it worse. What the hell? They know that. You know, they know. They just can't stop the compulsion. And do recognize even little bits of positive change. Horting doesn't happen overnight, so it doesn't get solved overnight. And so if they're trying to take small baby steps,

be encouraging. Your support's going to be instrumental in getting a hoarder sort of on track. But there's not a whole quick solution to this, unfortunately. Best of luck with this one. I can see how this would be frustrating and worrisome. It is a bizarre sickness that develops over time and starts out innocently enough, right? Oh, I like matchbox cars. Yeah, dot, dot, dot. Why do you have 11,000 of the same one? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Especially if this has happened his whole life. I mean, it's got to be tough. It's going to be tough. And I can see how it's unsafe.

Like, you have, hey, you have 8,000 copies of the same newspaper and they're all in the garage. It's a Tinderbox. Yeah, that stuff doesn't get less flammable over time. Right, exactly. So keep us posted on this. What's next? Dear J.Cube, I'm currently an internal medicine resident at a big city university hospital. Throughout residency, I've dealt with a negative perception that I don't care or I'm not enthusiastic about my job.

I'm a strong critical thinker and team leader from loving and playing football. I'm also someone who many consider a non-traditional individual where I enjoy a lot of life hobbies and interests outside of clinical medicine. I partake in many leadership, innovation and quality and process improvement groups and have had great success. I look towards having a career mixed with clinical and innovative work in consulting, informatics, and design that will propel me towards future leadership roles. You can sum me up by saying, medicine is part of my life, but not my whole life.

I don't currently jive with the current workplace workflow where individuals are lauded for faking it until you make it, and by just being extra. My approach is to take a step back and learn before jumping into action. While I try to stay cool, calm, and collected, my peers seem to run around frantically, which really makes for a stressful workplace environment. Unfortunately, I've received feedback that it looks like I'm disinterested because I appear so reserved. For example, I've been told that my bosses feel like my resting heart rate is 60 while theirs is 110. This doesn't mean I don't take things seriously or misjudge critical situations. I just focus on tackling situations in a cool and collected manner.

Fortunately, this has been noted and applauded by medical students who rotate under me. I've sought advice from other mentors at my hospital, especially those whom I've worked with, and they say that my personality is great and I do strong work as a physician, so they don't think I need to change who I am. Yet this has caused peers who don't like me to make up multiple, unprofessional high school drama-esque comments or write evaluations that have raised red flags to my program director who can't separate the subjective data. I don't feel supported or even accepted.

It really caused me a lot of moral injury and burnout, which I've been surviving with therapy. Support from peers, innovative work, friends, and family. I only have three months left, but is there anything I can do about this now? How do I curb negative press and perception in the future? Best of luck and continued success with the show. Signed, column under pressure.

So the first thing that stands out is the sentence, disinterested because I appear reserved. It sounds like code for not doing anything. I don't know about that because I tell you what, in a medical situation, I kind of want the calm guy who is like the, you know, like looks like he knows what he's doing. And remember the old,

I think it was a misattributed Abe Lincoln quote. He's like, if you give me five hours to cut down a tree, I'm going to sharpen my axe for four hours and then cut, you know, cut for an hour. I want somebody who is calm and reserved isn't going to make everybody panic. So I think this is a good trait personally. Yeah, I agree.

I definitely don't want the doctor who's like, oh my God, that looks awful. Yeah. How did you do that? How do we plug that hole? Yeah. It could be maybe you're stepping back too much in their eyes. Perhaps your peers feel like there's more

that you could be doing to help or contribute to the team. Maybe he's quiet. I don't know. There's just not enough info here because it all sounds like very positive traits for someone working in a hospital or emergency environment where there are curve balls and unexpected situations left and right. And I think this trait combined with action would be looked upon positively. So I'm not sure what I suspect, and this is just a hunch, I have no data here because

there's nothing in the letter about this. I encourage you to dig a little bit deeper because you might be calm and reserved and maybe that's what's happening here. Or perhaps that's a scapegoat behavior for something else and people just don't like you for some other reason. You know, maybe they're afraid to put that reason in the paperwork. Like, oh, we don't like this guy. He's a turd, you know, and he's a no-it-all jackass.

Like, maybe no one wants to say that. So they're like, oh, he doesn't help out his peers. And then when you ask for clarifications, they're like, oh, yeah, you just seem like you're not really contributing. And they're just looking around at each other. Like, does he not know that everyone wants to punch him in the face? I mean, we don't really know. Has anyone else said anything to you? Like, maybe you're not super well.

liked in the unit or something. I suspect there's something else going on here. We're not getting all the information because even you don't have all the information. So I would find some people you trust and ask them what's really going on and just be unfiltered. Look, don't put it in writing. Just tell me, do people not like me? What's the deal?

And if they're like, oh, well, you know, you keep talking about how your dad bought you this Ferrari and everyone thinks you're a dickhead. Like, who knows? Yeah. Who knows what's going on? I don't think you're really doing anything that bad. obviously, but you never know you could rub one or two people the wrong way and they decide they've got it out for you. Or maybe everyone goes and hangs out after work and you don't because you don't

like them. And they decided you're the odd man out. Who knows, man? He says he's got a lot of interest outside of medicine. So, you know, like they're dedicated. That's all they want to do. They just go home, get all together, get drinks and watch ER reruns just to become that person. And he's just like, I'm going to go play botchy ball with my buddies. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they resent you for that. Like you don't know. At the end of the day, if you don't figure it out and you can't get any further details, then screw it. If it's not actionable feedback at some point, it's just like, whatever.

But I wouldn't stop trying to figure out what it is because it's going to affect your career. But at some point, you just can't do anything about it. This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast

player of choice. Or if you're listening to us on the Overcast player, just click that little star next to the episode art. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that, just head on over to jordanharbinger.com slash subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday. All right.

Next up. Hey, guys. How do you respond to the small talk question? How's business? When an old neighbor or acquaintance sees you for the first time in a while, and that that's what they open with. I don't want to seem annoyed, but is this the best they have to offer? What do you say? It's great when it's really like Dow Jones, up, up, up, down, down, down, up, down, depending on the day. Or do you tell them that you're struggling due to the real

life forces of competition, mental fatigue, and loss of passion? I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer or if being brutally honest and saying, you know, I really hate that question because dot, dot, dot, dot, is the correct response. Thank you. Signed, not a fan of chit-chat. All right. Well, I'm also not a fan of chit-chat. I think the intention from people is to show curiosity and to be polite, though. So I get that. If it's not someone you care to be close with, something like, oh, business is great, definitely had some challenges like everyone else.

How about yourself? Just reflect it back to them. That keeps it vague. It doesn't open the door for anything else. I, too, find some small talk questions annoying and repetitive. But I also realize that they're being asked because people are at a loss for what to do here otherwise. So if you don't like small talk, take a page from the Chase Hughes, Jordan Harbiger corporate training. And what we're doing here is for executive protection people, aka bodyguards,

but we don't use that word in the industry. We don't use that word in the industry. Oh, you're so fancy. We're training Facebook's team, Microsoft's teams, about as specific as I can get there and some other Silicon Valley Titans. But we have a conversation formula, and I'll get into that detail later on, but basically, if someone puts in some input, like says, hey, how's business? You can give two little bits of feedback and then close it down. And the way that you do that is, you know, they might say, how's business? And you might say, it's good, had some challenges like everyone else, looking forward to some of the initiatives we have coming next year. What about yourself? And you reflect it back. Or if you want, you can cut it after one input,

one reply. It's a little bit terse, though. It's great like everyone else or it's great had some challenges like everyone else and then you can reflect it back to them that will really cut the conversation down the more input you put in the more likely they are to continue that thread so one input as a reply is generally going to cut conversation short because it requires and forces the other person the other party to put energy in and it gets exhausting but they will eventually stop trying to engage with you because you'll seem really boring and an energy drain so be careful with it that's why I recommend two replies that would sound like Like, it's great.

We've had some challenges ups and downs like everyone else, looking forward to next quarter or next year. How about yourself? That way it seems a little more friendly. And anything beyond two, now you're in a deeper conversation. That's the conversation curve. And we can get to that later on in another episode if people are really curious about it.

But it's something we do during corporate training, so it might be a little bit of a time suck here. All right, what's next? Hello to the Jays. I'm at a crossroads in my career. I've been successful in an office job for years and decided to take a life change. Since doing this, it's been difficult to keep a job and keep on track successfully.

I've recently applied to become a police officer. It's an interesting turn of career, and I've passed the most difficult part, which is the fitness test, and I'm waiting on the psych part to come back before the next stage. I have a young family and would have to make a big move to make this new career work. My dilemma is, although I would consider myself a fairly well-adjusted human being, I've never had to deal with any real trauma or violence in my life, and I'm worried that I would feel overwhelmed or burn out too quickly being a police officer. I want to help people and feel that this could be a way to do that, but I'm worried that I might be

throwing myself into the deep end. Should I be worried, or should I jump in and make the most of what could be a rewarding career change? Regards, why capa, capa? Nice. Well, congrats on the big career change. Assuming that you get hired and complete the police academy, then your concern actually is quite well-founded.

The Los Angeles Port Police just had a senior officer commit suicide, unfortunately. And another officer friend of mine is also on the edge of being burned out himself. My advice would be to do ride-alongs with departments, see what the job is in the area that you want to work. And also, find a department that is a culture that you like. Bigger departments mean more diverse jobs. So canine, dope, homicide, air support, et cetera. So it's easier to move around and maybe not get burned out. And by the way, I got this advice directly from a police officer.

I'm not just making this up so that you guys know I'm not talking out of the wrong end here. Ultimately, you need to understand that no matter where you work, you will have to deal with trauma, burnout. There's a host of other issues that always come up. And my advice is to have friends outside the job. A lot of cops will only hang out with other cops. They go to cop bars. They got cops in their family. You just can't get away from it, right?

I've seen blue bloods. I know what's going on. Oh, okay. I haven't. So I'm behind the curve. You also have to have some good hobbies and, you know, preferably not like video games where you're a cop or bowling with cops. You know, you can do that, but like have something that's not that.

Remember, it's only a job. I know it's a very serious job, but it's only a job. Talk to a therapist when you need to. And talk to a therapist before you think you need to. Absolutely. Like if it's in the back of your head like, oh, someday I should talk about that. That's when you should go. Not when you're like, yeah, I'm constantly drinking.

five nights a week and, you know, taking three different types of pills. Like, that's too late. I will say it's already good that you're considering what happens when I burn out. What are these things going to do on the job? How are they going to affect me? It's better to do that than to think you're invincible. And I got this advice from a lot of cops, look, realize that this is going to affect you and it doesn't make you not tough. It doesn't mean the job doesn't suit you. It doesn't mean it's a tough job. That's what it means. And every cop goes through this. There's no such thing as a person who's immune to this, except for people who are extremely dysfunctional in their real life and probably have other things going on and that,

you know, like the cops that turn into the crazy ones. Yeah, over the years, I've known a lot of police officers. Some were friends. Some were not friends. But the thing about it is everybody is traumatized the first couple years on the job. And a lot of people just leave. They they can't take it, but he's thinking about this now, which I think is actually a really good thing for sure. He's going to see some stuff that's going to mess him up. There's no two ways about it. Even if he works in Maybury, you know, he's going to see some stuff that's going to mess him up, and he's going to have to have the tools ready to deal with that kind of thing. That's right. Even Mayberry PD got shot at. I saw those episodes.

He had, you know, Barney Fife had his one bullet. That's right. That's right. Keep around. Special thanks to Officer Timothy Delapena for the help on this one, as well as the other guys that contributed to this one. It's not an easy job, man. Somebody's got to do it. I don't think I could do it. I would do it and then I would turn into a bad person because I get affected by that. I would be the person who's like pick up that skateboard. Oh yeah? What? You're not going to look me in the eye when you do that? Carrying any dope? Like I would turn into like a crazy aggressive guy. You would be the bad lieutenant. I would be the bad lieutenant for sure. Yeah. All right. I'd be like,

you know, we don't get paid enough for this. Give me that. Give me that dope. I know where I can fence this. I'd like to say that I wouldn't, but there's no way I would stay. Like, I'm, I, my brain does not work that way. Well, it's good that you're self-aware enough to, to know that and to stay out of law enforcement. I mean, I don't think I would turn into a blatant criminal, but I would definitely skirt the rules. I think you don't need that dope. You're going to prison. Who's going to arrest me?

I'm the Kappa. Yeah, that's right. I'm taking this home and making sure it's real, real dope. Yeah. We'll be right back with more feedback Friday right after this. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com

slash deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion of Feedback Friday, live from my garage in Los Angeles. All right, next up. Hey, Triple Js. I'm an over 55 woman with disabilities in a U.S. citizen living in California. I'm currently a poster child for your not digging the well before I need it, but is it really too late for me? I'm an inside sales professional.

I was trying to get settled into my last job when I had an injury that snowballed. After several surgeries, I lost my job and found myself put out to pasture on disability. I don't have family and work friends disappeared during my convalescence. Leaving the various legalities of my dilemma aside, it's too late for lawyers and this is the real world. After several years of recovery, I want to reconnect, but of course the whole world has changed. I'm no longer viewed as skilled. I'm only viewed as old. I tried going to temp agencies, and this isn't the easy inn, especially with an old resume. I thought I could volunteer at events for companies only to find after I'd worked for free that they only mentor and hire young people.

I was viewed as a joke. Time for creative thinking. I see companies who'd benefit from my input and I'd like to offer to consult with them. I feel my age and experience will be seen as an asset in my pitch. I'm already familiar with billing and specifying the scope of work and revisions in a contract. I'd like your input with A. How do I frame my request without giving my solutions away? And B, how to set my fee within the LA business market.

Sincerely, beaten is for eggs. Ah, well, you should not be discouraged by volunteering for free. I know that you're probably in your mind too old to do this, and that's an intern thing to do, but you did not dig the well before you get thirsty, so you don't have a whole lot of leverage here. A good way to get a leg in with those companies that you have in mind is to offer free consulting first. And you don't say, hey, I want to consult for free, but you can try to sell the gig, and they have nothing to lose by trying it out. you can also do is pitch it as I want to do this as a free engagement, but I want to get recommendations, and I'll go over that in a minute. If you do a good job with one company,

the relationships that you form there, the experience that you get, the referrals that come from that, that'll be worth it. So it'll be worth, you'll be compensated in that way. And I would use what's called the briefcase technique. They still need you to implement things. If your solutions are so simple that just a few sentences give away all the value, then there's not enough value there. So I know you're worried about giving away your ideas. Your ideas are probably not that valuable. And I know that that sounds mean. But the truth is, if you're a consultant and all I need are your ideas, they're guaranteed to be written about somewhere else or I can get them from a 10-minute conversation or an email. There's not enough value in there for me to hire you. There really isn't.

I need people who are going to implement. I need people who are going to be able to set up the systems. So show what you'll do, make projections about the value that you'll bring, and set fees. You know, look, ask for what you need. If you come in a little bit low, fine. Just tell them you're coming in low, but you're looking to build a referral base and a testimonial base. So you'll ask for testimonials and a letter of recommendation after the engagement. And you get them to agree to that up front so that afterwards you're not like, hey, can you sign this letter of recommendation? They're like, I don't know. That's your compensation. They have to get that to you. They can't dilly dally.

It's considered part of the engagement. This way it makes sense your fees are lower and you don't look desperate. Look, I'm charging you less, but I want you to write a letter of recommendation. I want you to be able to drop your name and my marketing, that kind of thing. It's a trade off that way. It's not a trade of services or barter. It's a trade off. And you'll get referrals, you'll get testimonials, you'll get marketing materials from the engagement.

Now, the briefcase technique is really good. It's amazing. It's probably gotten more people hired by me than any other. set of tactics individually that I can point to. I'm also going to link to a video from my friend Ramit Sati about this technique. It's an older post from his website, but the info there is still amazing, and that'll be linked in the show notes as well. Tax season is right around the corner.

We've actually gotten a lot of questions about tax planning, financial stuff. I can't give advice in that area, but I thought it prudent to bring on one of our sponsors, which is into it, and they make great products for this. I actually started off using TurboTax, QuickBooks. a bunch of the stuff that those guys have made over the years has been super helpful, not just for the small business elements, but for the personal elements. So we got a little tape here with Jake from Intuit. We're speaking with Jake Whitman from Intuit, makers of TurboTax, QuickBooks, Mint, and Turbo

to give us some tips for tackling debt, taxes, and finances. But Jake, first, I was shocked actually to hear some of the statistics that you guys have on offer here. I didn't realize that a huge number of families literally can't handle a $400 emergency. Like that's a little terrifying because up here in Silicon Valley and some of my entrepreneur friends, like that's a sushi dinner, not a family crisis. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of, it's shocking in a bad way. Yeah, I mean, these are some of the macro problems that we, you know, that are super important

to talk about. They're very real statistics about how many people are really struggling with their finances in one way or another. If you're worried about your next $400 because you got to pay for a medical emergency and somebody else is wondering where to go for dinner for twice that amount of money with their family, you know, for a special occasion, you're going to have different ideas about how things should be managed. And I know that, of course, the American dream is achieving prosperity for yourself or your family. Tell me a little bit about the business stat that half of small businesses fail in their first few years because I hear that a lot and yet, you know, being surrounded by

entrepreneurs all the time, we have a survivorship bias where we're only hearing from successful people most of the time. There's no doubt, starting a business is hard. And it takes a lot of hard work and a lot of grit and a lot of determination to be successful. And, you know, a lot of people, I think, do come into it with a positive mindset and they get into it. And it's a challenge. And so, you know, a lot of what we try and do it into it is help those people succeed. One of our core beliefs is that, you know, everybody should have the financial tools that they need to start and run a successful business. And so that is at the core of so much of what we believe in as a company and what we're trying to do with our products. I know that we live in a nation that is

famously debt heavy and finances are top of mind for a lot of listeners, business owners and not because tax season is in full swing. So I would love it if you'd speak to that a little bit because I was raised, you know, pay off your credit card bill. and don't carry any debt other than student loans, pretty much, and a mortgage, if that. Tell us what you are seeing into it, because obviously you have a unique look at a lot of people's personal finances, first of all.

Sure. So one of the stats that we look at is the average debt persists and is more than $59,000. So, you know, there are a lot of people who are living in debt around the world. You talked a little bit earlier about people living paycheck to paycheck, over 70% of Americans actually are living paycheck to paycheck. And we have this between a $400 and $1,000 emergency, more than 60% people can access $1,000 in the case of an emergency.

And so, you know, you're right. These are, it's very different than living in Silicon Valley. I think there are a lot of people out there who are trying to figure out how to maximize their financials so that they can live the life they want. You know, we talk a lot. You mentioned the word prosperity earlier. And Intuit, our mission is powering prosperity around the world. And we talk to so many people, small business owners, entrepreneurs, people working hard to better their lives. You know, what we find is prosperity means different things to different people.

It's not a consistent thing, which is part of the beauty of the mission. Because really what we hear is universally it means being able to live the life you want, whatever that means for you. So what about for entrepreneurs and small businesses? I mean, look, you're supposed to manage your day-to-day finances guilty of kind of not doing that slash handing it off to Jen, who's my wife. But I know that Intuit creates these products because, of course, before I had a gen to rely on, I was Mr. TurboTax, you know, and I was entering my stuff manually in Quicken back in the day, even when all I had were tacos as transactions. Generally, tacos and beers. You know, those are my initial transactions in Quicken. Those are important transactions.

They exist, that's for sure, yeah. And, yeah, frankly, they're some of the most fun transactions that I probably had, especially back then. The rest was tuition. But tell us a little bit about how this looks. you know, from into its perspective. Yeah, you know, we have several products under the QuickBooks product. If you're self-employed, we have a product called QuickBooks self-employed, which allows you to track your income, deduct business expenses, do things like

myelids tracking, figure out estimated taxes, you know, all those things that when you're first starting out, especially if you're self-employed, you may not be thinking about, and then tax time comes and you realize that I need to do a whole bunch of stuff to figure out what I spent over the years, and I wish that I had spent the time trying to keep, trying to keep these things organized. And one of the beautiful things about this product is it works directly with TurboTax. We have a TurboTax self-employed product. Makes sense, right? And so when it's time to file taxes, it syncs directly with TurboTax. So as long as you've been staying organized throughout the year through QuickBooks Self-employed, it's almost a no-work kind of action. Everything

syncs to turbo tax. Your expenses and deductions are already organized. for you and you can go ahead and file. Yeah, I think this is kind of crucial. I know when I first started the business, I really thought, like, I'll just handle this later. You certainly do not want to do that. You want to make sure that you are tracking everything week to week at the latest because there is no greater nightmare than coming back and going,

yeah, you've got to go back through all your credit card transactions, make sure they all add up, which, by the way, they never will, and then find out how what each thing was for, and then God forbid you're in an audit and you tell them, yeah, I just sort of went and spitballed it at the end of the year. It's like you are going to screw yourself. You know, to your point, preparation really is the best way

to stay to get ahead and stay prepared at tax time, right? Keeping track of taxes, determining your relevant expenses and deductions ahead of time, so you know, it's really knowing what to expect. You know, using a tool like TurboTax will help you keep your tax history organized. because it keeps your history year over year over year. And it helps you understand how to get your maximum refund each year.

The other thing that's really cool that we're doing now and from a TurboTax perspective, and this is relevant whether you're an individual or you are self-employed or an entrepreneur or in a small business, is we have this new service called TurboTax Live that lets you talk directly with the CPA to make sure you're thinking about things correctly. So we actually allow, we actually have a product where you can schedule time

with a certified CPA that's on our platform. It's a one-way video chat, so you can do it from your pajamas on your couch while they're in their office. And they're ready to provide personal tax advice, tax prep services on demand as you move through the process. It's really meant to give you confidence that you're doing everything correctly. And to your point earlier, you know, when you're starting up and you have a small business,

there's a whole lot of potential uncertainty as you're getting going. Yeah, I think another idea here, that is important that was clutch for me and that I didn't do initially was you should not only sort your business and personal expenses separately, and if you're not sure what a business expense is, you should ask somebody,

but you should set up a business checking account immediately. Absolutely. Because if you start mixing funds, man, and you know this, you start mixing funds if you ever end up with an accountant who's confused or worse, an audit, you are just asking for so much trouble because once they create that nexus between your personal funds and your business's funds,

basically they just crack the whole thing open like a nut, treat the whole thing like a business, and then suddenly they're dipping into your, you know, you're remodeling the house fund or your vacation fund to pay off that tax bill because you have no protection. And that's a nightmare scenario for any business owner. Yeah, there's no doubt that setting up a business checking account early on is extremely important.

And just to make sure that you're keeping everything, separate. Jake, thank you so much, man. Thank you very much. Intuit, powering prosperity around the world. Proud makers of TurboTax, QuickBooks, and Mint. Financial tools that give you the power to prosper. Learn more about our financial products at intuit.com. All right, next. Hi, Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I've been in a bit of a slump. I'm about to be 28 in April, and I'm one of those people who stressed about where they currently are professionally and financially. About three years ago, I started reading self-help books, business books, listening to podcasts like yours, and watching YouTube videos,

all in the hopes of gaining knowledge to improve myself. The main reason I'm writing in is because I feel like I'm constantly reading about how to improve myself and all this information is fantastic, but the reason I'm frustrated is because I have all this information. Seriously, I know a lot about behavior change and habit formation, and yet I still face these ups and downs and ebbs and flows of motivation to help facilitate these positive habit formations like diet, finances, exercise, etc. I'm one of those guys who's enamored with people with nice bodies and a lot of

money, not because of the aesthetic, but because of the consistency required to achieve those things. I'm jealous. I'm writing to you because when I hear some people's questions on Feedback Friday, you always seem to surprise me, in a good way, with a new perspective that I would have never considered. Any help with my consistency problems would be much appreciated. Thank you very much. Inconsistent, consistently. Nice. So you're envious, yes, I know. And that's a distinction, jealousy and envy. We learned that distinction from Robert Green earlier on the show. This is a great. great letter. And we just did a deep dive on why self-help makes us feel bad. So please go listen to that.

It's episode 160. And that will shed a lot of light on this. Also, you're not unmotivated. What I think is happening here is that you don't actually want the things that you think you want. You don't actually want the things that you think you want, in my opinion. This is okay. What I mean by this is that all the posts about fitness and money, et cetera, are affecting you. That's what they're supposed to do. These types of posts, by the way, are marketing from these guru wannabes who are just trying to get you to feel less than so that you then buy their crap. You're not ripped enough?

Buy this crap. Business not taken off? Time for my insanely overpriced mastermind in Florida. Not sure what to do next? How about a self-help seminar getaway with other people that we made feel horrible about themselves at some guy's house in Hollywood Hills? Yes, we take credit cards. In your shoes, after you listen to why self-help?

Help makes us feel so bad, episode 160, I would sit down and write down the things that you think you want. Make a list of the things you think you want. Then start writing down why you want each of those things. Then write down why you think that's why you want each one of those things. So that's kind of like why and then you get meta with it. Why do I think that's why? The more you dig, the more you're going to find out the reason that you want some of these

things is because you've been told that you should want them, not because you actually do. Six-pack abs? Oh yeah, I'm supposed to want those, so I'm attractive. I don't give a crap, but it took me a decade to figure out that I didn't care. For example, I go to the gym two to three times a week, maybe, depending if I'm on the road. I walk a lot. I'm not ripped, but I am trim. I'm in decent shape. I used to be 209 and I was ripped. Now I'm 170, not ripped at all. I realized a while ago, I don't want to be huge and jacked. I want to be respected. That's what I, that's the value I was looking for. So I went about a more effective way to get respect, which was becoming better to other people, developing skills instead of just developing my body.

That actually solved the problem, so I didn't have to work on these little accoutrements of respect or what I thought people wanted to see in me. And I used to think that I needed to make a ton of cash. And then I thought about why. Turns out, part of it was respect like before. So we solved that. And the other part was that I wanted cool experiences. So I focused on how to get those experiences without just cutting a check for them. Now, I have rich guys in my inbox asking me how they can take part in experiences all the time, a lot of which I'm getting for free or as a side sort of shuffle because of the job and the network I've cultivated that gets me those experiences. The network has gotten me more experiences and more opportunity than the money ever would have.

And all this is not to say that you shouldn't be working towards what you want, of course. What I am saying is that I'll bet you don't really want a lot of the things that you think you want, which of course leads to a crisis of motivation because your feeling brain knows you don't want those things. And then your thinking brain is being bombarded with marketing all the time 24-7. It's feeling less than and trying to motivate yourself temporarily to close that gap between what you have and what you think you should have. So you start doing it for a while and then you lose interest because you're, you're, you're, You actually know that you don't want it. Deep down, you know you don't give a crap.

So you lose motivation. Do that journaling exercise I just mentioned. And I think you'll find that you're not as interested in a lot of this self-help BS as you think you are. You're not as interested in having a bunch of money and being ripped and all this stuff as you think you are. You just want some other thing like to be liked or loved or respected. And once you figure out how to get that without going that side route through buying, you know, supplements and all that crap, you'll be much happier long term. And it'll be easier, honestly.

Is there a Lambo supplement? There's no Lambo. There are no Lambo supplements. Because you don't want that Lambo. You just want people to go, wow, cool car. And the reason you want that is because you want people to think that you're cool. And the reason you want that is because you want love or whatever. All right.

So just love yourself. No, don't. That's not the solution. That's part of the solution. Just not like that. All right. Last but not least. Hi, Triple J, which is also my favorite Australian radio station.

Interested in your perspective on LinkedIn networking. I get frequent LinkedIn connection requests from people who I haven't previously met or done business with. Many requests come from those in the same industry, similar fields, or where there may be an opportunity for indirect collaboration. In the spirit of building a robust network of professional contacts, I accept pretty much all requests that look legit. Almost all of the random connection requests I receive are not personalized, and after accepting, there's really, rarely any follow-up by the requester with a message introducing themselves. Even with people I know, I always personalize the invite and then send a follow-up message when they accept. So in most cases, I take it upon myself to send a message to them to

establish a conversation, but rarely get a reply or anything meaningful back. While some of these people probably think this qualifies as, quote-unquote, networking, I also suspect that a fair number of these people are simply trying to get their connection slash follower numbers up to help establish credibility rather than endeavoring to establish meaningful professional relationships. There's a part of me that thinks I should subsequently remove random connections if they don't engage within a reasonable time frame, as I do want to try and maintain the integrity of my network. But there's also a part of me that feels doing so would be petty on my part, and that I should be more focused on the long game. You never know when that connection might come in handy.

Grateful for any discussion around this. Thanks, not a lazy networker. So I like Triple J in Australia too. We actually have some of their swag because Australians have notably our friend Matt Knight have been sending us Triple J swag. There's a picture of the three of us on Instagram. Oh, that's right. So they can go check that out. That's right.

I was also in the offices a while back. And I was also at Triple M talking about interviewing and stuff. They have awesome studios. FM stations are awesome. And Triple M has so much cool stuff and so many cool rooms. Yeah, I was like, wow, I could get used to this. I did a, I did like a podcasting course before podcasting was podcasting at like KCRW up in San Francisco. And I think that was KCRW.

Yeah. And it was so much fun. Those rooms are so cool. And I took radio in high school. So I knew how to work the board and play with the carts and everything. That is so much fun. I miss those days. Now they just have a laptop.

It's not as cool as it used to be. Now the boards are dope. I never took radio in high school. We didn't have it. Yeah, we had our own radio station. It was great. Yeah. A friend of mine had a radio show in high school.

but he had to go to another high school to do it in the morning. And you know, school starts at like 7.30. Dude had to get up at like four. Ridiculous. He must have loved radio. I hope he's famous now. His name is Brian Grant. He had the Brian Grant show.

So hopefully Brian is a, hopefully all that work paid off, Brian. Anyway, LinkedIn is different for me. I've got 4,500 requests that I started with like last week or something. Like pending open requests. Pending, yeah. Oh, my God. And I also message everyone. I rarely get a reply back.

I think I have 3,800 more to go, something like that, a little more. Okay, we're taking your LinkedIn account away from you because you don't have time for that. Ain't anybody got time for that? No, no, I know. And I even emailed LinkedIn and they replied and they were like, you have a lot of pending requests. And I was like, is this normal? And they're like, no. So they changed some stuff in my profile because they thought that there might been like some automation happening where people were adding me.

Anyway, in your case, I don't blame you for removing people who don't reply. They're never going to provide it. anything. If they can't even be bothered to answer their LinkedIn inbox after they've added you, they're going to be takers at best, time wasters mostly. They're going to end up pitching you for their stupid sales calls. Hey, do a free session with me. All that BS. It's all automated. There's no point in connecting with those people. They're just mining LinkedIn for leads. Having a lot of connections that are useless does nothing. It's always better to have fewer but stronger connections. And of course, it's great to have a lot of strong connections. So you could just accept them

and move on. And then once you need to reach out to them later, the problem is then you're going to want to check your message history and see if they're just adding tons of people or if they're the real deal. And that's what I do because I'm not relying on these connections for anything. I figure they're show fans. And if somebody's profile looks really goofy or doesn't have a photo,

I deny those. But everybody else, I'm just kind of like, eh, I assume you know me from the show. I'll talk to you if you don't reply. I don't really care. I'm not using LinkedIn for anything. Yeah, me too. That's the other thing that I was like,

does LinkedIn really matter nowadays? because everybody is just using it as kind of like a social proof mechanism to show their connection account. Yeah, there's that. It can. I do use it occasionally to reach out to somebody, but to like, hey, I wonder if I know anyone at Quora and I'll search for it. And then I'll be like, oh, hey, do I know you? And they'll be like, yeah, I saw you speak at HustleCon. I'm like, great. I'm like, great. But if their message history is me saying, hey, how do I know you? And they didn't bother to reply. I'm like, oh, great. This is just automated. She uploaded her whole, you know, Gmail inbox by accident. or something. So I don't worry about it. So you're going to have to filter at some point. You can either filter now or you can filter later. It's up to you.

If you don't have that many open pending requests, filter them now. That way you're just not connected to the people that are not manning the ship. Life Pro tip of the week, this is a good travel tip for people who drink coffee, at least Starbucks coffee. When you're leaving a foreign country and you've still got cash in hand, like you still got Mexican pesos or you still got, you know, Thai bot, take it to a Starbucks, load it onto a gift card. And then you can take the card to the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Mexico, wherever you are, Republic of Ireland. You can use the cash on the card and it will auto convert

to your local currency. So you don't have to go to a bank and exchange it. Yep. No, this is a great tip. This comes from my friend Mark Fraunfelder. You might know him from Boing Boing. Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah, I've known Mark for years. And this comes from his Recommendo newsletter. Like every week, him, Kevin Kelly, and another person put out six tips. Each person does two tips. And I found this on the newsletter and I thought this was genius genius yeah yeah because I have little Ziploc bags full of like currency that doesn't even exist anymore yeah me too I totally got that because I went to Europe in the 90s and I was like cool Deutschemar oh crap yeah you know exactly stuck with it now I just keep that for fun because it's just fun to play with it yeah through sometimes sure sure

it is fun to have that currency but some you don't need like four hundred dollars of it right no you don't that's a lot that's a lot of frappuccino's right there that you could get yeah I still though I totally use it I don't think gift cards expire. If they do, it's like 10 years. It's illegal to expire a gift card because they're considered cash. I've got a $400 British Airways gift certificate that somebody gave me in, like, 1993, that I can still cash in, which I'm waiting for someday.

That was like an actual flight to the UK in 1993, probably. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was supposed to be, but I just never got off my butt and went. It's a classic Jason. That's right. Recommendation of the week, man, I'm obsessed with a Theranos thing. I know I told everybody about the dropout podcast, and they also did a dropout. I don't think it was called.

Was it called the dropout? It was on 2020. Yes, it was the dropout. Yeah, the dropout podcast was spun out of the 2020 TV thing. They were combined together. The same team did both of those. Oh, I thought the dropout on 2020 came out after the podcast. The video came out after.

The podcast came first. It was like a six-part podcast. And then after that, the 2020 special came out. Then after that, the inventor, for Blood and Silicon Valley came out. So it was basically you had your Elizabeth Holmes trifecta to go through. Yeah. So look, I recommend start with the Dropout podcast.

If you like it, I loved it. Then go watch the dropout on 2020. And then if you like that, then go watch the inventor out for Blood and Silicon Valley, which is on HBO. And if you don't know about Elizabeth Holmes, she was the CEO of Theranos. This used to be a multi-billion dollar healthcare company founded by Elizabeth Holmes. And she dropped out of Stanford. She started this company.

It was going to revolutionize health care. It was valued at $9 billion in 2014, which made her the next Steve Jobs, the youngest self-made female billionaire in the world. Two years later, Theranos was cited as a massive fraud by the SEC. The value is less than zero. And now she's facing prison time. Couldn't happen to a nicer, crazier person. She is completely nuts by the look of it.

Yeah. And I think you nailed it with the order. Of what to watch and listen to? Yeah. Because I think the podcast definitely, like, gets you the whole backstory. And then you get nuggets going once you start to watch the video. And then you can really see, like, her crazy eyes and all of that stuff. She's like, I're talking like a robot.

She talks like, is it Buffalo Bill? Or the guy from Silence of the Lambs. Oh, yeah. It puts the lotion in the basket. It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose again. That's how she talks like that because someone told her that she needed to have a deeper register to sound more credible. And it's just you cannot talk like that in a bunch of media without a complete lack of giving an F about what other people think and or just no self-awareness at all. I was talking to my roommate about this when we started watching the 2021.

She's just like, oh, she's just a poor girl who just got too far down the rabbit hole. and she started to believe her own press and then got too upside down and didn't think that everything was going to be able to, and then by the end of watching the HBO, and she's like, that bitch was cray cray. She crazy. She's crazy.

Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Like you start reading, and I read the book Bad Blood by Carrier, and I was like, oh, you know, I can see how somebody our age would just get so swept up in it and then try to sweep the bugs under the rug. And then you're like, oh, wait, nope.

con artist, straight up fraud con artist. Like, there's too much to ignore. I want to know how many people at Walgreens got fired over this because that should have never been available to the public. Oh yeah, no way. Oh my God, it's so crazy. Somebody for sure got bent over the barrel. Hope you all enjoyed the show today.

I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week, as always. Don't forget, you can email us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. What did you get your question answered on the air? And we'll always keep you anonymous. That's how we roll. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Shout out to a couple listeners far and wide, Benjamin Torreiro in Mexico City. He's a law student.

Sorry to hear that. He works at a law firm in his city. Look, I hope you love it. He listens to us every day on the commutes and offer to take us out for dinner in Mexico City. So if I ever feel like getting kidnapped again, I'll take you up on that. Not that Mexico City is that dangerous. I mean, it is, but that's where I get kidnapped the first time. So I'm not just trying to make you look bad or your country look bad.

I do like Mexico. And I really had a great time in Mexico City other than that. little field trip. The whole side hustle trip there. That's right. And Anki Hilhaagen, which is a very Norwegian name. She is in Norway. She says, I swear I'm not a stalker, which is what all stalkers say.

But if you guys are in Europe during the summer, come visit us in Norway. She's got a house on an island, and it sounds very peaceful. No electricity or running water. But they have solar panels. And where no one can hear you scream. Yeah. No, it's come out to this place where there's no phone and no running water and no electricity. Jordan puts the lotion in the basket.

Have you ever seen, what is that misery with Stephen King? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, I feel where that's going. But thank you, Anki, for the invite. I might, uh, maybe we can just meet it a nice public place instead. Yeah. Next time I'm there. Go back and check out Bo Lotto and Michelle Laterman episodes from this week if you haven't

yet. And if you want to know how we managed to book all these great people, I manage my relationships with thousands of people. I've got systems. I've got habits. I've got consistency. I'm teaching you how to do this for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. It's a six-minute networking.

This course replaces level one. We no longer support level one. I have nothing to do with it. I've left advanced human dynamics for a couple of reasons, which I can get into later. I no longer do level one, but six-minute networking is at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Do not kick the can down the road. You will end up like that gal who rode in and said, I didn't dig the well before I'm thirsty, and now I can't get a job.

I know you think it won't happen to you. But once you need relationships, you are way too late. The drills take a few minutes per day. That's why it's called six minute networking for God's sake. So ignore this at your own peril. It's free. I want you to learn it. It will change your life and your business and your everything.

Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Jordan Harbinger. It's a great way to engage with me and the show. And Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube is where we all are. All the video interviews are up there on the YouTube channel. Jason. My personal website is over at jpd.m. And you can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks at Geeks at Geo

or your podcast player of choice. This show is produced in association with podcast one. This episode is co-produced by Jen Harbinger. Show notes for the episode are by Robert Fogarty. Keep sending in your questions to Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Show the show with those you love and even those you don't. Lots more in the pipe. Very excited to bring it to you.

In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard. so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know

with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask,

and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same.

smart ideas you can actually use in real life something you should know has been featured in apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting so if you want another show that scratches that i want to understand how people in the world really work itch search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening you can thank me later