The Jordan Harbinger Show - 195: Leon Logothetis | Surviving on the Kindness of Strangers

Episode Date: May 7, 2019

Leon Logothetis (@thekindnessguy) is a global adventurer, motivational speaker and philanthropist, host of Netflix's The Kindness Diaries, and author of Go Be Kind: 28 1/2 Adventures Guaranteed to Make You Happier. What We Discuss with Leon Logothetis: How Leon went from broker to broke world traveler, completely reliant on the kindness of strangers to survive. Why people with the least to offer are often the most giving. How Leon finds what he has in common with strangers to make meaningful human connections. What Leon does to give back to those who help him in his travels. How Leon has overcome otherwise show-stopping hitches by keeping calm and carrying on. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://jordanharbinger.com/195 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Listen to Mind Pump Episode 987 to discover why the ketogenic diet might be making you fat. Find it here! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason DeFilippo. Today's guest comes by way of multiple recommendations from all of you. So many of you told me to go to watch the kindness diaries on Netflix and interview the show's host Leon Logothetus. So I did, and it was a lot of fun. For those of you who don't know, Leon is traveling around the world with no money at all, relying solely on the kindness of those he meets along the way. And the results are pretty amazing an eye-opening. We'll go behind the scenes to some of the fun, ridiculous touching, and even sometimes dangerous situations he gets himself into, usually in the middle of nowhere and in a vehicle completely ill-suited to the journey. I also wanted to know how Leon's troubled past

informed his crazy undertaking, how he uses some newfound persuasion skills to navigate around the globe without a dollar in his pocket, and how he's learned to avoid trouble overseas, even though by watching the show, it seems he gets into plenty of trouble anyway. This is a really fun conversation, and you'll enjoy it whether or not you're familiar with the kindness diaries. Speaking of relationship development and networking, that is something that's allowed Leon to navigate the globe twice now, and many of the skills he uses are similar to what we're teaching in six-minute networking, which is a free course that we have for you on relationship development and networking. It's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. All right, here's Leon

Logothetus. Let's get the premise out. So you're traveling around the world based on people's kindness just with no money. It seems like a really tough idea to execute. Do you know what? It is. It's easy when you kind of like think of the idea to like travel around the world, but when you're actually doing it, you realize that A, you have no money, B, you have nowhere to live, and C, unless you connect with another human being, you're finished. Yeah. So it does, it is a bit of a challenge. but what I'd like to say is that sometimes you have to burn your ships. And what I mean by that is you have to leave yourself no option, but to keep going forward. And the only way to go forward if you have no money and no place to stay is to rely on the kindness of strangers.

And that's kind of what I did. Yeah, I like the idea. I love the premise. And we'll get into more of the details on that, obviously. But I want to know how you got the idea for the show. Because, of course, hey, let's travel around the world. Great idea. No, what do they call it?

Like no hook. And then it's like, traveling around the world, no money. And they're like, okay, let's see how this goes. So basically, I watched the movie The Motorcycle Diaries, which is like a romanticized version of Che Guevara traveling around South America, relying on kindness. And there was something about that movie that really touched me right in the center of my heart.

And at the time, I was a broker in London. Like a commodities broker? Yeah, primarily a shipping broker. And I was so depressed And I would walk into work every day Literally like Just in a terrible state And after watching this movie

I realized there was another way to live I didn't have to sit behind this desk anymore I could go out and connect with human beings I could like live an adventurous life It kind of like sparked something in me That was always there But I kind of forgotten about And once that movie was kind of in my heart

There was no turning back it was like, that's it. I'm going to quit my job, and it's all going to become better. Now, clearly it didn't end that. I mean, ending kind of that way. There's like an ellipsis in there. Well, exactly.

So, you know, it was so serendipitous as well that I watched that movie. I mean, I could quite easily have not seen it, but it was there. I watched it. For two hours or so, I was kind of like touched and inspired, and then the rest is history, as they say.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are unhappy in their job. Not everyone should like quit and travel around the world and vagabond and stuff, but I think that this was like you said, it was already there. And how do you know that that idea that desire was already in your head versus like, oh, I just hate my job and I need to leave? So do you know what it was for me? It was a calling. You know, it kind of, you know when something happens to you and you feel it in every fiber of your being, this is the right thing to do. There's no like, no one can tell you don't do it. It's like, you know.

And after watching that movie, I knew. Because I remember as a kid, I was really adventurous. I would kind of like, and I had this crazy imagination. And I'd read all these books. Are you an only child? No. I was the middle child. Oh, okay.

Same thing. Exactly. So I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, kind of energized that part of me that wanted to see the world, that wanted to connect with people, that wanted to live adventuously, that wanted to, like, truly be present in this world. So thank you, the motorcycle diaries. Yeah, that's pretty good.

Who directed that? Who created that? Do you know, I don't know who directed it. Have I ever reached out to him? You know, I thought about it, but I didn't. Because I was like, look, who am I? I mean, the guy probably has thousands of people telling him that the movie changed his life. How many people made a TV show about it, though?

You should stay at his house. Yeah, or maybe have him stay at euros. I don't know, some sort of payback thing. When you were a kid, you were bullied, you said. Yeah. Yeah, what's going on there? Like, did that have some sort of effect on the whole kindness thing, I would imagine? You know, 100%.

Because as a kid and a young adult, I felt profoundly alone. I felt alone at home. I felt alone at school. Were you bullied by your siblings or kids at school? Pretty much kids at school. But I just really felt profoundly alone. I felt profoundly unseen. I had this teacher who was really a life changer.

She would say to me every day, she'd be like, I believe in you, among other things. And really what she was doing was being kind. What she was doing was kind of like a witness to my pain. And sometimes all we need to do is to have one person to see us. And she saw me. So I've kind of experienced being emotionally on the floor. And I've experienced being on the highest mountain emotionally and everything in between. And I wanted to share with others what she shared with me.

She shared this like magic, this kindness. I see you. So I wanted to do the same thing. But I also wanted to have an adventurous life. Sure. So I kind of just said, all right, just going to travel around the world relying on kindness. Kind of like both things in one. Yeah.

How long do these seasons take for the show? I'm wondering. And I have so many logistics questions. I'm probably going to end up boring people. So I've deliberately spread them out through my notes because I don't want to talk about like how TV shows are made for half an hour. But I'm so curious because when we're watching, when I'm binge watching it with my producer or my wife or whatever, we're like, is this like a month or is it like seven months?

You just don't know. We have no concept of this. Yeah. So season one, which was Los Angeles all the way around the world back to L.A., took five and a half months. Wow. That's actually pretty quick, it seems like. Yeah.

It's kind of quick because, you know, we kept on going continuously, continuously. Yeah. And then season two, Alaska to Argentina was three and a half months. I have no con. I saw it on the map and I went, looks pretty far. But you have no idea just how, like how many hours a day in the car are you? It depends, but you could be traveling 10 hours. Like one day you're in the car for 10 hours.

And there's really not that much filming. You're just going from A to B. Right. Like you're, what was the slowest part of that journey from Alaska to Argentina? Like what part where you're just like, I'm pretty sure we've passed that moose, that tree, that snowbank? The craziest part of that journey when it comes to driving was Alaska and Canada. Because of the scale.

Yeah, and not just a scale, but I'm driving a 50-year-old convertible yellow beetle with no heating. I know. I have a note about that later, too, to be like, what were you thinking? Well, clearly not very clever. And for 2,000 miles, it was basically ice. So I was sitting there, driving this car, having to be 100% focused because one little small mistake, and I'd go off the road, which clearly I'd did a few times. I've seen that. You're in a lawnmower with like a canvas top. Basically. Yeah. And sometimes people say, how on earth did you manage to do that? And I don't think too much about what I'm doing until I get to where I am. So I don't think that I have to get from Alaska to Argentina. All I think about is how I have to get. on a plane to Alaska.

That's it. And then when I'm in Alaska, it's too late. Remember I talked about burning the ships? Yeah. It's just too late. Well, I can't, I can't go home. There's people relying on me.

I have to get this show done. And at that point, I'm like, oh my God, this is literally insane. Yeah. Literally, I've lost my mind. I agree, because the guy who stored your car for you, also a turn of kindness, he gives you this portable heater, and I go,

all right, well, thank God for that. And then you're like, I'm afraid to use this because it smells like gasoline in the car. And this seems like a really bad way to die. Yes. You know, in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness. That'd be bad. Yeah. And there's too on fire.

No. It's really bad. Yeah. It's just, there's so many funny elements of this. And Jen and I were watching this and we're just like, why is he making it even harder on himself? So season one, you're on this motorcycle with a sidecar. I've got a thing for motorcycles with sidecars. I just think it's the coolest.

and I tried to buy one here. And I don't know if you know this or if you just had that thing later on. They are next to impossible to find. They are so rare. And you found one that was in mediocre at best condition. And then the first thing was L.A. to Las Vegas.

And I've done that drive. There's a lot of sun. You know, you're sitting here like, you're whiter than me. How are you kind of, moderate, you know, how are you staying hydrated and making sure you don't turn to a crisp? Yeah, no, I mean, look,

it's really insane. And I actually bought the bike in Vegas. And literally, I mentioned this, not in the show, in the other book I did, I literally bought the bike, gave the guy the check, within one minute the bike broke.

Oh, wow. So he fixes it. Oh, that was nice of him. Yeah, it was. I drive it back to L.A. Yeah. And it breaks 45 minutes before I arrive in LA, again. Wow. And I'm like, my God, how the hell am I going to do? This is just maddens.

That's like a four hour or five hour drive. And I have to drive it from L.A. all the way around the world. Right. So the bike clearly keeps breaking down and it's part of the fun of the show. Right. Because to me, you know, if I just like think to myself, I'm going to, you know, do it in like a really cool car, it takes away the fun for the viewer. Sure.

You know? Yeah, because I'm like, I want to do this, but I want to do it in like an escalade. Yeah. You know, like fully loaded with a little refrigerator in the console for drinks. Not as good for TV. Much better for your sanity. Yeah. They were telling me, actually, that I should do season two in an electric vehicle.

Yeah, like a Model X. Yeah. And I was like, first of all, there's no electricity in the middle of the wilderness in Alaska. Good point. And secondly, if I arrive in like an impoverished place with a really cool car and I'm asking for help, they're going to be like, the hell are you talking about? Good point. Like, hey, I don't have any money for food. Cool. You're driving a $120,000 electric Model X, fully loaded. Tesla. Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, there's all little things. And also, when I was a kid, I watched, have you ever seen Chitty Chitty, bengang. Yeah.

Okay. So I was obsessed with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Because, like, I was in love with this car. So I wanted to create a character for the show as well. So it wasn't just about me. It was like this crazy car that people would fall in love with, that would fly off cliffs and that would break down and that snow would come in the car and the windscreen wipers would break and you know all this kind of stuff so it was like creating a character as well yeah and it's cool you named kindness one and the second one was kindest to the car so the motorcycle upgraded to this vW convertible uh beetle why was there snow i was watching that yesterday and i was like how did the snow get in the car like it was everything was closed and yet There was snow.

It was snowing inside. Do you know, I think that's a great question. I think how it happened was that it was a convertible, right? So the convertible didn't fully close. So basically when snow came, it came into the car. And the same thing with rain. I was in Ecuador and it was raining and it was raining in the car. I mean, it's madness, right?

Yeah. It's madness. But you watch it and you're like, what the, what's he doing? Yeah. And then, but then part of the reason for the show, isn't just about the adventure. It's clearly about the kindness. It's about the compassion. It's about the empathy. But if I just said to people, I'm doing a show on kindness, they'd be like, I'm not watching that. Yeah. But if I said to them, oh, I'm doing a show with a 50-year-old car in the middle of winter

in Alaska. And then, oh, with no money. Oh, okay, I'll watch that. And then the kindness comes from behind. I think whoever greenlit this was like, the kindness thing is kind of optional. we just want to watch this guy suffer for like 6,000 miles or 8,000 miles or how, actually, how many miles was it around the world? Around the world, I believe, is 25,000 miles, some of that. And from Alaska to Argentina, I believe it's 12,000 miles because I went all, I didn't just stop in Buenos Aires. I could have, like, stopped when I arrived in Argentina, but no, I decided to drive another

two and a half thousand miles to the bottom of the world. Tierra del Fuego? Is that way, Ushawa? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't gotten that far yet. Yeah, well, yeah, it's fun. Yeah, that's a name that conjures up images of it's cold again and it's snowing in the car again.

Yes, absolutely. And it's literally, it's so cold that you don't know what to do with yourself. Yeah, I can imagine. And were there ever times, I know you're making a TV show, but are you ever, like, bored in the car going, all right, eight and a half more hours till the next kind of non-gas station-only town. So do you know what? I always have the cameramen in the car. Okay. So I'm not really bored because we're like talking. Sometimes we're filming. Sometimes we're just like, like, having conversations about life. Sometimes we're making funny jokes. Sometimes we're crying.

Sometimes we're laughing. That should be a show in itself, to be honest. I would imagine. I thought, I wasn't sure if you just had cameras stitched up in the car, and then they're following you in like an RV. Yeah, no. They're in a van, but we have cameras in the car, but we also have the camera.

All right. So you're not totally dying. Because I would think, but he's, of course, got like probably hand warmers and some nice gloves. And he's like, yeah, snowing in the car. You should have got some gloves. man, maybe in the next town. You can beg someone and they'll give you some gloves.

Exactly. Because there's got to be, the crew didn't sign up for the whole, hey, I'm not going to have any money thing. Like, they're probably like, hey, we're hungry. We're going to stop at this diner. Yeah, you want to just sit here and wait for us? You want to get out and stretch your legs a bit. I mean, you basically are making fun of me.

Yeah, I would imagine. I would imagine. That's the only show where I think I'd probably rather be the cameraman than the lead. But do you know what? I get to connect with the people. That's true. I get to have like these amazing moments. I get to like open my heart.

I get to like connect with other human beings from from the heart. And that's a beautiful thing. That's like life changing, truly. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest Leon Logothetus. We'll be right back. And thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all of the latest episodes in your podcast player as they're released, so you don't miss a single thing from the show. And now back to our show with Leon Logothetus. A lot of your experiences are really cool,

and I've got some ideas here that I want to discuss, but are people more or less kind than you expected as a whole? So when I first started my journeys, people were saying to me, have you lost your mind? Yeah. And clearly I have. Well before the show soon. Well before.

And they would say to me, you're never going to be able to find your way across the world on kindness. I was like, all right, well, let's see. In the back of my mind, I was like, maybe they're right, you know. But the more people that I met, the more I realize that kindness is part of who we are. It's like in our DNA. And as long as you come from your heart and the other person feels safe, they open up to you. So I thought it was going to be more difficult. But slowly, slowly, I started to realize.

You know, they smell so bad. There were some people in the trailer where I was like, wow, this guy's a real dick. There was a guy wearing aviators, and he was like, get out of here. You always asking me this dumb crap? I mean, half of it's bleeped out. And he's like, I saw some guy hit you in the face with a map or something, in a van, or maybe it wasn't a map. I don't remember. It was like he opened a sliding door.

It's in the trailer. It's just one real quick thing. He basically swatting you away from him. There had to have been a lot of that. There were. And the most difficult part of the whole. journey was being rejected. So every day, I'm going up to people and asking them for help, and every day they're saying no. But you find that one magical human being that says yes,

and then you get to like fully be present for them and they get to be fully be present for you. And it's a beautiful thing. So it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. Yeah. One thing that surprised me, and I don't know why it surprised me because it totally makes sense, is it a lot of the kindest people were the people that had very, very little. One couple, they couldn't even afford to go to their own son's wedding. That was really sad. And the homeless guy in season one who was like, well, I can't leave stay in my house because I don't have a house.

And then you ended up sleeping on the street with him. And that was, you must just get blown away sometimes by stuff like that. Like some guy who's got a six-bedroom house is like, nah, I don't have any room for you. And some guy who's literally sleeping in a corner between two buildings to protect himself from the wind and the leaves and the rain is like I have a blanket and you can sleep on this concrete slab with me at night in public essentially. It's just amazing. Do you know that moment with Tony in Pittsburgh changed me because I ended up sleeping on the street to Pittsburgh with him and he showed me that kindness is free. It doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter

how much money you don't have. Every one of us can be kind. We get to choose. And he was just, it made me realize also that true wealth isn't in our wallets. It's in our hearts. If a homeless man can be kind, then we have no excuse. Yeah. Yeah, it's for me watching him do that, well, I had two thoughts. One, I'm not nearly as nice as I thought I was. And two, are you not worried about bedbugs and things like that?

because I felt like an ass thinking this, but I was like, would I get in that blanket? Probably. But in the morning, I would be like, okay, I need to check myself. I mean, do you worry about things like this at all in the moment? So again, it goes back to burning the ships. Yeah. So at that point, I have no choice. I am either going to sleep in the streets with this guy or I had no choice.

What was I going to do? Right. You're going to sleep in the streets with him or you're going to sleep on a bench with no blanket alone. Exactly. You know? And he was going to protect me, which he did. So in that moment, it actually becomes an easier decision to make. I'm going to do this because I have no other options.

And maybe that's why people with less are more kind because they have fewer options. And the people that have more are like, ah, you know what, no, I'm not going to go down that way. Sure. Yeah. Do you think it's because they have more to lose or because they just never have had to be, maybe they've never been on that line where it's like somebody with a six-by-by-year, house, it's unlikely they've ever had to choose between sleeping outside on a bench alone or with a homeless person. Usually they've had it decently, okay, even if they're self-made, they probably were not

homeless before, ever. Yeah, absolutely. And also I think what it is, the more money one has, one is less connected to community. The less you have, because of your need, you're connected to community. And when you're connected to community, you want to kind of help other people, because that's what community is. But when you're sitting in a house with a wall, there's a lack of community. Because you're essentially self-reliant. Exactly. And at the point where you're, when you have less, you're relying more on people. And when you rely more on people, you use your heart more. And you have to be more vulnerable and you have to give and you have to take. But behind a wall, you don't have to do that. I love the idea of being able to do this. And I'm trying to think, I've, of course,

been trying to think of ways that I can do this. Maybe that's a good question for you. How do you think we can allow ourselves to open up like that without essentially traveling around the world or sleeping outside and things like that. Because a lot of us want to dip our toes in kindness. We don't necessarily want to be like, let's be homeless tonight. Sure, sure, I get it. So for me, many people say to me, I can't get up, leave my job, take a yellow motorbike and go around the world. Right. I can't get up from my job, leave my kids, stop paying my mortgage, and drive a vintage yellow beetle from Alaska to Argentina. So I can't be kind. I'm like, okay. Well, the reality is that you don't have to do that.

Right. It's a logical fallacy to think that. All you have to do is moment to moment show up with as much kindness in your heart as you can. When you go to Starbucks, treat the barista with some respect and some dignity. When you're in the Uber and the Uber drivers being a nut job for whatever reason, be kind. It's moment to moment. It isn't the big things. It's the little things.

You do one little small thing every day and you keep on doing it. And by the end of your life, you will have accumulated so much kindness and you will have accumulated so much connection to your heart that it will just become part of who you are. And that's really what it's all about. Moment to moment to moment. It's like going to the gym. Like many of us go to the gym and, you know, we become strong. But how many of us become strong in how we show up in the world? And that's really what it's all about.

Forget the yellow motorbike. Forget the yellow vintage car. It's cool, but it's got nothing to do with that. I bet you never want to see that car again. Do you know what? I never want to see the bike again. The car kind of worked. It broke down quite often, but not as much as the bike.

Sure. Yeah. Where is the bike? The bike is in the garage again, and the car is in my house. Okay, got in my house, but... Right. Next to it somewhere. Yeah.

I mean, you could probably auction off the bike or something like that, right? It's famous now. Yeah, it is. There's one last kindness turn out of that bike. And I can't give it away. Is something... Oh, sentimental? Yeah.

Yeah. I suppose you could give it to your future kid and be like, it's your pile of scrap now, man. You know, it's famous. How do you persuade people to give you a place to stay and something to eat? Yeah, okay, you beg for it, but what else is really going on? I mean, you have to have some sort of persuasion skills set that you've honed over the last few months. Basically, I simply come from my heart, and I connect to their heart. And I, you know, joke around a little bit as well.

And there's the aspect of adventure. But at base is just connecting with another human being. Once you connect with that other human being, magic happens. Yeah. Like people say to me, oh, it was easy because you had a camera. Yeah. People do wonder that. Yeah.

Well, okay. But if you're not genuine and you're not authentic and you're not connecting with the other person, they're going to be like, I'm not going to help you. Why on earth would I let you into my house? Just because you have a camera. Yeah? You have to come from place of your heart. How do you get there?

If I walk outside right now, I don't know if I could just connect with my heart with someone else on a snap. I'd have to learn how to do that because maybe I don't operate that way by default. What does it feel like when someone is kind to you? Yeah, it's nice. It makes me feel good. What does it feel like when someone's mean to you? Yeah, it makes me want to do the same thing, honestly, or just repel. It's repellent. Okay.

So always remember and feel how it feels like when someone's kind. and take that feeling and spread it. I know what you mean. I think about this a lot, especially when I'm in a bad mood, because I realize, oh, I'm just kind of being a virus right now. Right.

I walk into Starbucks, the barista was in a good mood. Now she's in a less good mood because she's like, that guy, right? So, and of course you see how people respond to you when you're really upbeat. The caffeine's already kicked in. You walk outside.

You just want to high five everybody on the road. And then someone honks at you and says, move, prick. and you're like, oh, okay, right? So you do ride the way, if you're aware, you do ride that wave? Do you find yourself having to get into that mode, though? Because I would imagine 10 hours in the car,

you're freezing, your hands are about to fall off, you can't feel your left leg, you're freaking hungry, and 18 people have been like buzz off, jerk, and you still got to be, you still got to bring it. You know, again, it's like a commitment. You make a commitment to show up in a certain way. No one's perfect. I'm not perfect.

there were times when I've been mean Believe it or not I know those are all edited out right Except that one But I remember a kid one said to me I gave a speech And the kid puts this hand up and says Mr. Leon

Have you ever been mean And I was like Oh my God This is where I lie to the child Yeah yeah And I was like you're not gonna lie And I was like look Of course I've been mean

Because I'm just like you I'm a human being I make mistakes I'm not perfect So when you go out into the world Again it goes back to that like how you show up moment to moment. You make a commitment.

This is how I'm going to be. And there were times when, yeah, like my first reaction is like, man, that guy was a dick. Yeah? I'm going to be a dick. My second reaction is like, oh. A, you're the kindness guy. Yeah. Yeah.

No pressure. You're no pressure. And B, no, you're not going to be a dick. You're going to show up with some kindness in your heart. And that's what I do. 99% of the time. There are times when I don't. but again it goes back to that commitment.

You know, like you're committed to do this podcast and to inspire as many people as you can. I'm committed to show up in my life with a camera, without a camera, with my heart as open as I can. And that's really what it's about. If you're committed, nothing will stop you. Sure. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm less into the inspiration thing

and more into the teachable practical skill thing. I feel like inspiration is actually really cheap these days. And I'm happy when people do it, but I feel like there needs to be more to it than just inspiring people. It's important, but it's not like the end because I think it's too easy to get inspired on Instagram for a second and then go back to all the problems that you have not yet solved in your life. And so what I appreciate about the show is not only is it inspirational, but it also shows you that all of these excuses you have for not really being nice in some situation or not being kind or all the judgment you have. about people that live in rural Alaska or are homeless on the street, you really don't have the complete picture. And that I feel like, because you're not just talking with people who live in suburban Michigan, right, and are like, sure, come stay at my house, whatever. You're picking,

I would imagine by design, some pretty tough targets. You know, I'm in Kosovo and I'm going to walk around the street. Turns out to be a pretty friendly place. You could have just stayed in the UK and France and Germany and like kind of avoided all the places that have made the news. in the last 20 years. But you didn't do that. Yeah, because ultimately, one of the things I learned in my journeys is that we're all the same. It doesn't matter what color you are. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much money you don't have. It doesn't matter if you live in a Western country or in a third world country.

At base, we just want to be seen. We just want to be loved. We just want to be heard. And again, it goes back to that point of connecting with someone from your heart to their heart. People say, how on earth do you connect with everyone so quickly? What's your trick? Editing. That's true.

But really what it is is you find something that you have in common with them. And if you say, oh, I don't have something in common with them, you can find something. How do you do that? How does that process look? Do you like sports? No. Okay. Not at all.

Do you like traveling? Of course. Yeah. Okay. Where's the most inspiring place you've ever been? I actually really like Kosovo, which is why that was one of my... So you've been to Kosovo. Yes. Okay, great. What was your experience in Kosovo? So I was walking through. I walked from Kosovo, Serevo, literally walked or traveled on something equivalent to walking, like a bicycle or whatever, through... Man, it's been a while. Where did I go from Kosovo? Albania, I believe.

And then from Albania to Montenegro. Okay. And then Montenegro. Oh, wait. Sorry. Montenegro to Kosovo to Albania. Were you ever in Sarajevo? Yes. Okay, great. So my experience of Sarajevo was there was a magical energy.

Did you experience that? Yeah. There's something going on there. Yeah, there's something going on there and you can't quite tell if it's good or bad, honestly. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, it's like on the edge, but there's an energy there that you, so, you know, that's a connection that we just made, just like that. Sure.

You've been Sarajevo. I've been Sarajevo. I've experienced that energy. You've experienced that energy. And we could take that and run with it. So that's how you do it. I ask you, first, do you like sports? You're like, no, okay, all right.

Second, do you like traveling? Yes, done. Sure. Okay, I appreciate that. So you're seeking the commonality, but you're not just seeking the textbook kind of, oh, I like soccer, you like soccer, done. You're trying to connect at sort of an emotional level

with the people that you mean. Absolutely. On a human level. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's more powerful because everybody can sort of share the same emotion. emotional connection, as opposed to, yeah, I like traveling, but I've never been outside of the United States. All right. I mean, you luckily have a breadth of experience, but I think people view others

and think, I don't have any of the same experiences as that person. I would say, like, let's say there's a, I'm going to be extreme here. Let's say there's a white nationalist and a Muslim, yeah, and the white nationalist has a kid, and the Muslim has a kid, okay? You would, the white nationalist and the Muslim may not be able to think to themselves, or we have nothing in common. But if they start talking about their love for their children done, they have a connection. And from that little connection, something magic can happen if you wanted to happen. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Leon Logothetus. We'll be right back after this.

Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visitjordanharbinger.com slash deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. And if you're listening to the show on the overcast player for iOS, please click that little star next to the episode. It really helps us out. Now for the conclusion of our show with Leon Logothetus. Do you ever feel bad at asking people for free stuff all the time? I feel like that would, I'd feel a little guilty being like, hey, I need free food right now.

Do you know, not really, because again, I don't see it. I see it as an exchange. So, you know, they may give me a free place to stay, but I'm kind of giving them my presence. Yeah? And they're giving me their presence. And it's an energetic exchange. So the little thing of, okay, give me a place to stay, or can I have something to eat, is like the minor part of it, the bigger part of it. And that's what I wanted people to get from the show was that ultimately it's an energetic exchange.

And that's why you can't give me money. you cannot give me money. You can just give me part of you and I will give you part of me and the food and gasoline, right? And gasoline, yes. Please, give me some gas.

Was it easier to crash with people in America versus Europe or Asia? No, it's just pretty simple and not simple. I mean, most people would say no, but it was kind of the same process everywhere you went, except in America they spoke English

and in Asia and South America they didn't. Sure. I wondered if there was maybe a continent where it was like, wow, people are just not into having me crash with them here. Or wow, everyone says yes here. Do you know, in Canada, literally, everyone said yes. Yeah, I mean, to the point where we got to a point in the show, we were like, they were all saying yes.

We have to, like, kind of like, ask them to say no, because they, it's too easy. Yeah. So, you know, I would be like, they say, yes, you can stay in my house. I'd be like, well, you know, is it, push back a look. This guy had a 300-year-old house. His family had lived in there for 300 years. They had built the house, and he'd had, like, World War I refugees. I don't even know, probably prior to that, probably a million wars prior to that refugees.

And people stayed in the house for, like, 30 years. Families grew up in the house that weren't related to him, and then they would move out, and then there would be another war, and he'd taken some refugee. Where was that? Near Trieste. Yeah. In Italy. That was incredible.

That was amazing. And I remember, that was so funny. I was completely lost. I met some random guy who called up his friend. said, do you mind if he comes and stays with? He's like, yeah, sure. He gives me a, like, a little map. I follow this map.

I get completely lost in the middle of the night. I stop this guy, random guy, and I say... In a car. Yeah, in a car. And I literally say, do you know Philippe? As a joke. Right. And he's like, yeah.

I know Philippe. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, he lives over there. And I went to hug him, and he was like, what? And he pushed me away. It was just so funny. That happened. I was like in a field totally lost and this guy knew the guy I was going to see.

How does that happen? Yeah, you're in the middle of nowhere, I guess. It's a numbers game at that point. Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, you finally found him at night. And then, of course, the trick is, does this guy actually know that I'm coming? Or was it just a note scribbled?

Like, did that text message go through? Yes. Or is this guy going to come out with a rifle? Luckily, he knew where I was going. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. There was also this Montenegrin family that I think had lived on the same land for literally a thousand years, which just for me is, I can't even imagine knowing that your family

had had that land for that long. I don't even think I've lived in the same place for more than a decade and change. Even the house I grew up in, I can sort of go, yeah, I was there for 12 years. And there's so much history. That's another thing that I love, like connecting with history, connecting with, and also when you connect with a human, you're connecting with their history, you know. Yeah, and I ended up giving that chap a cow. Oh, right. You bought him a cow. That was like a big deal, though.

It was a very big deal. You only had one cow. We gave him another one. Yeah, you doubled his business. Exactly. Went from subsistence farming to full profitability overnight. Exactly. Yeah.

It's like giving somebody a factory or something like that. What do you think is the most unique place that you've stayed? In the back of kindness too, next to a volcano in Ecuador, that had erupted a few years before, which was very beautiful, a little bit chilly, but that was kind of cool. And I remember the family that came out because I was living near the house,

they came out and said, hey, do you want to come and stay with us? And I was like, no, thank you so much. I actually really want to sleep in kindness too right now. I also tried to sleep on a beach which was filled with crocodiles. I mean, look, I didn't see the crocodiles, but there was a sign saying,

beware of the crocodiles. But I was like, I'll be right. If they were here, I'd see it. Exactly. And I was like lying on the beach. And then I started, maybe I heard things. Maybe my mind was telling me things. But I started like hearing crocodile noises.

And I was like, you know what? Enough. So I left and slept in the back of kindness too again. That could have been a shortened season of show. That could have been like season two ends in episode six because Leon gets eaten by a crocodile. Yeah. Oh, that's terrifying. Jeez.

What's the sketchiest place you've stayed then on that beach with crocodiles probably? Pretty much. Or I would say most probably sleeping on the streets of Pittsburgh. I mean, I'd been told don't go to this park at night. And I went to the park because I'm not very clever. And then I ended up sleeping on the streets with this guy. So that probably wasn't very clever. But I did it anyway.

Yeah. Yeah, that would have made me nervous. Bedbugs and who knows what else, along with other things. Were there any people that got a little sketchy after you stayed with them? Like, I'm thinking there's got to be some lady that's like, oh, I'm getting late tonight for sure. this guy's in my house, or somebody who's just like, hey, I'm sharpening my knife collection. Why don't you come in here and see? And you're just thinking, why do you have all these power tools in the kitchen?

You know, something weird like that. Do you know, pretty much no, because I use my intuition. And my intuition tells me this is a safe person or this is not a safe person. And if they're not safe, I won't do it. Like, for example, I met this guy in a bar. And he says to me, it's just going to be me and you. you. I'm in the desert. There's no phone. There's no way to communicate with anyone. And the crew cannot come. I was like, thank you so much for your kindness, but I think I'm not going to stay with

you tonight. Yeah. That just didn't feel right. Yeah, what, like, why can't the crew come? Well, exactly, because maybe he was sharpening his knives ready for the final act. Where does the crew stay? In hotels. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. So they're not necessarily like right outside while you're sleeping on the street. No, absolutely not. They filmed me sleeping on the street. And about nine-ish, they left. And they came back at 8 a.m. in the morning. Hoping you were still a lot. And I was there with that guy by myself.

Oof. Yeah, I feel like that would be different. Because my estimation was, oh, they're, like, parked in an RV on the road, watching him sleep. And they've got a camera train down him just in case anything exciting happens. No, they're at a motel. They're at a Howard Johnson, hoping that you're in one piece in the morning when they come back. They come back and they're like, oh, thank you.

Right. Good. Good. We can renew the season. He's still a lot. You do kindness turns or turns of kindness for others as well. And I'd like to talk about that because when people help you, you help them back in a big way. Like the homeless guy, you had got him a house and enrolled him in school, which I thought was amazing. And it must be really, it must feel great to do that. Because a lot of times people help me and I'm like, here's a dollar for your tip jar and that's kind of all I got. But you get a chance to go, I'm going to help this person out in a big way. I'm going to buy them a cow, which is like a huge life-changing purchase for them. Or this guy had been, he wasn't homeless because he was like a drug-addicted mess.

I mean, his wife had kicked him out and he couldn't afford to live anywhere else. Do you know, it is a beautiful thing to be able to give back. And part of the reason why I love giving back is because there were people in my life that gave back to me. and the beauty of being able to share your heart with another human being is profound. So, yes, that's one of my favorite moments. And for example, in season two, I used to have a dog called Winston Churchill. And I called him Winnie. And I met this lady in Ecuador that spent all of her life because she couldn't have kids giving love to stray dogs.

And we had this beautiful bond and beautiful connection. and I was able to help her save 100 dogs. So it's not just about all these massive things like, oh, let's put someone up in an apartment. It's about enabling another human being to like live their dream and to like give them an opportunity to do what they love to do. And that was such a beautiful moment. And giving gifts is beautiful.

That's my favorite part. Yeah, I think that would be incredible. I wondered if there was any people, my producer actually asked this question. Are there any people you go back to where you didn't get a chance to give them something in the moment for the show? But you're like, man, this person's really stuck in my head. I kind of want to make sure that this person gets something. So there is actually a chap in season two, episode 10, a Spanish-speaking guy who didn't speak very good English. And he had an amazing heart.

He let me stay in his house. He had nothing. He was a fisherman. And I didn't understand what he was saying when we were actually doing the filming because I don't speak Spanish. afterwards when we were in the editing booth and people started seeing the show, people would send me messages and be like, why didn't you help him?

I got some hate mail, I must tell you. Why didn't you help Christopher? What's wrong with you? And I was like, look, guys, I didn't understand what he was saying to me. And now I understand what he's saying to me. So we're actually working with Christopher to help him because now we have a translator.

What was he saying? He was saying things like, thank you so much for coming to my house, thank you so much for taking the time to see me. Thank you so much for being so kind. All this kind of stuff. And he was saying, many people who have money never see me. They just walk past me as if I don't exist.

And you didn't do that. And I had no idea what the guy was saying. I knew he was crying, but I didn't know what he was saying. Oh, that must have been mildly awkward, I guess. Yeah, yeah. It was awkward, but it was also very beautiful. So we're going to be helping him. So part of the reason that is so the hate mail stopped.

That's not exactly true. Stop writing me and telling me about it. Exactly. My producer loved this spot about when you reunited with this old teacher friend. Was this the teacher that was originally kind to you? No, no. She was another one. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And are you still in touch with her? I know you built a school for her or something like this? So in the early 2000s, I ended up going to Peru. And I was working in an orphanage. And I met this lady called Duska. And Duska had a beautiful, like, presence about her.

You know, when you meet her? someone that really comes from their heart and is really kind of like fully present for you. And she helped me like feel there was another way to live. She was one of the first people that did that. So 20 years later, I wanted to help her. So I told her that we were doing a kindness documentary and that a production team were coming to her to her school. She didn't know that I was coming to.

Oh, okay. So I surprised her after 20 years. Wow. And saw what she was doing with this school. And I ended up staying in her house. and I was able to give something back to her. We ended up building a second floor of her school. But have you ever had someone that's truly touched your life in a profound way?

I'm sure that I have and I'm trying to think of who those people would be. There's probably a lot, actually. Yeah, and of course, there's some easy ones like the family I stayed with when I was an exchange student and things like that. Those are like low-hanging fruit easy ones. I'm sure there are more where it was just kind of a random one-off thing and it's like still with me. me. I lived with them for a year. So those are the obvious ones. Yeah, but you know, you had that experience. You had that, like, witness. You had that love. You had that heart opening that really shifted you. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's life-changing. Indeed. So your crew travels with you. They're not in

RV. They stay in hotels. Are they carrying food and water and stuff? And like, you just, there's got to be something where you're like, I'm thirsty of dying and like, fine, here's a bottle of water. The truth is they never help me. But look, clearly, if I'm like, in the desert and I'm dehydrating. And I say, guys, I'm going to die. They're like, oh, I'm fine here. Yeah. Yeah?

So, you know, the majority of the time, there is no help. But, like, for example, in season two, I crashed the car. And the cameraman, I cut my finger. How I cut my finger, I don't know. But the cameraman helps me. Sure. I mean, you know. I mean, that's reasonable.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay, we're not going to make you bleed out on the street. Exactly. I'm going to put a bandage together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that stuff, I don't feel like that's cheating. Yeah. But, of course, in the back of my mind, I'm like, tell me he didn't get like a cliff bar from that guy at one point, you know, like, do I want that right now? Or like, hey, we couldn't find any dinner for you tonight. Fine. You know, or like, hey, it's pretty cold in here.

Why don't you come sleep in the hotel? All right. None of that, huh? None. That was, that's you, though, right? You're like, no, I'm going to. Look, what's the point of going on this journey and not doing it properly? Yeah, I agree.

You do it? Tempting, though, when it's 20 billion. Do you know how tempting it is? Yeah. Do you know, also tempting to give up. Yeah. The amount of times I was like, you know what, why am I doing this to myself? Like, I think on the third crash in Alaska, maybe it was in Canada, I was like, it was just

literally me and the cameraman because there were some problems with the crew and the crew hadn't come with us. We were in the middle of nowhere, and it was absolutely freezing, and there were no people. And I was saying to myself, and to the cameraman, why are you doing this? Why are we doing this again? What is wrong with us? And the answer that always comes back is because people are. are going to watch the show. People are going to be inspired. People are going to change their

lives and change other people's lives. Keep going. I'm like, okay, fine. Yeah. Just keep going. Yeah. And there must be times where you're like, we could pretend that we did this, but meanwhile, this is really a car with heat. We can do a couple shots in the car and we can get the escalated, we can travel 3,000 miles and we can tow this POS behind us. Yes. And then we wouldn't have the experience. Right. That's true. So I wouldn't be able to like live the greatest life that I want to live and I wouldn't be able to share it with you. Right. Yeah. I love that. I like doing things the hard way myself, but there are many times where you just go, what's the ROI on doing this the hard way when nobody's watching? Oh, right. Okay, fine. I love that you ditched out on a ticket in France

because you're like, come find me with your, what kind of plates you have on the motorcycle in the car? It was an American plates. Okay. I remember that. I was in Ex-on Provence and I got a ticket. I had stayed with some musicians the next morning ago, I'd get this ticket. It's like, 150 euros. And I'm looking in it. And I'm like, you know what? I'm not paying this clearly because I'm got any money. So if the French army want to come and find me, they can. I think they're still looking for me. To be honest. Exactly. There's somewhere. I keep like looking over my shoulder. Are there any sketchy border crossings? And I notice you don't film those probably because you're not allowed to. But I would imagine some of these like central Asia type places, it's like,

are we getting through here or not? There are a lot of sketchy border crossings. I mean, And there's a lot of like, I don't know if I should admit this, but I'm going to, there's a lot of times where we cross the border and we don't tell them what we're doing. So they say to us, oh, you know, why are you here? We're like, well, we're just tourists. And they're like, oh, okay. Right. Because if you say TV shows, like, oh, here's a book of paper.

Well, exactly. So we, exactly. So we just keep on going and see what happens. And so far, touch wood, it's worked. but clearly not going to work anymore if any East Asian border guards are watching. That's right. Yeah, this show is really popular

with the Tejik border service. Yeah, I think you're probably safe. Although, who knows? I don't know. But we've had so many amazing border crossing experiences. It's just crazy. This is madness. Like, you're in a totally different world.

Yeah. Literally. It's not like go to Starbucks and, oh, like, you know, can I have a coffee? It's like, there's so much logistics. There's so much bureaucracy. You could literally be sitting there for days. Because a lot of these border crossings, they don't get overland travelers that aren't local.

You know, they might get a truck going from Tajikistan through Kyrgyzstan, whatever, but they don't get a random British guy with 7,000 passport stamps and no money and camera gear going in a POS car or motorcycle through the border. It just looks weird. And they probably have never seen that. Luckily, your car is on par with a lot of the other vehicles that they see, you know, like a 1979 Ugo or whatever. But there had to have been times where you're sitting there and you're just thinking,

are we done here? Are we turning around? 100%. I mean, for example, I was in Vietnam and I was 90 miles from Ho Chi Minh City where we needed to get a ship to go to Canada. And the guy says, your bike's not coming in. I was like, what? Yeah.

Like, my bike's not coming. coming in, he's like, no. So it took nine days to get the bike out. How do we do it? We went to the American embassy. We told them what we were doing. They said, we'll try and help you. We'll try and help you. Okay. And we ended up giving our documents for the entire car, like to get the car out of Vietnam, to get the car, into Canada, to get the car, into America, everything to the guy. He gives it to his assistant. He says, photocopy these. Half an hour later, nothing. Call them up. Where are you? Come down. Come down. Come from. down, where are the documents?

I shredded them. Oh, wow. That was bad. Wow. So how did you rectify? I mean, how did that... At that point, we were saved. Because now the Americans were responsible for us not getting the bike out. Oh, I see. I thought they were just going to be like, we done effed up. Sorry, bro. No, they helped us beautifully. It got to the point of the ambassador.

It was amazing. He's like, I don't want to waste any more effing time on this. You guys are idiots. Just get his bike out so he gets out of my stinking lobby. Exactly. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. Wow. Little incompetence goes a long way, right? Because I remember that moment, I was like, oh my God,

we're finished. And then immediately I was like, oh my God, no we're not, we've been saved. Jeez. Wow. I had a similar experience, I think, in Cambodia or Vietnam, or maybe it was the crossing. I had gotten an E visa. Brand new at the time. Wow, you can do this online. They are so modern. And then I took a boat on the Delta in the middle of the jungle.

And we stopped at this border camp where there was, I'm not even kidding, a guy selling live rats out of a cage. And I thought, what market is there for this? And there was a little kid changing money and he gave me blatantly counterfeit U.S. currency. It was like a $5 bill that looked okay, but the ink was like jet black instead of green. And I thought, this is worthwhile just as a souvenir. Just to buy it. Just to buy it. And we stayed there and we stay there and we stay there and we're going through and we're about to get on the bus or the next transport thing and he goes, oh, we don't do the e-visa here because we don't have the internet to check anything. And we can give you another visa, but you have to buy it. And I thought, oh, but I don't have an application.

And they said, yeah, we're out of applications. So you're out of applications. I've been here for four hours. My other choice is to go back six hours in the other direction on a boat that is not going in that direction anymore. What can I do? And then I realized I was in a developing country. and I said, do I really need the application? And he goes, well, it depends on what you have in your backpack. And I was like, got it. What would you like for my backpack? Leave me some underwear.

Did you give him the counterfeit money? No, I think he was on to that scam. That would have been really cool. He was $2,000. I think I gave him like a really crappy Palm Pilot type of device. And he was over the moon for this thing. And I thought, I'll be fine without Sudoku or whatever the hell's on here. You know, I'd rather to just continue with my.

life. But that's the beauty of traveling, right? You get to experience all these things that in everyday life in a Western world, you don't really experience. Like corruption and bribery. Counterfeiting. Yeah, rats, open market for rats. Did you ever figure out why they were selling live rats? No, I honestly, I think that he was trapping the rats because they breed snakes. And so my theory is that they catch the snakes to eat them. And I saw some enormous, this terrifying snakes in cages outside people's houses, which I guess is where you keep it. You don't want to keep it in the house. But also, I guess it's better in the cage than anywhere else because these are huge snakes.

I think they feed the rats to the snakes, fatten them up and eat them in the jungle there, but I could be wrong. So somebody's catching the rats, packing them into these crates, and then selling them like, hey, do you have a snake at home and it's hungry? Well, you don't want to let it out to catch a rat. so you're going to want to go ahead and feed it one of these. That's my theory because I'm hoping people aren't cooking them up and eating them. Because if they are, I for sure bought one and ate one and didn't know what it was.

That would be bad. Yeah. Are there any times that you thought, okay, we're getting killed on this. This is the end. Oh, my God. Oh, we're getting killed. Do you know what? In season two, we drove like a 400-mile stretch in Columbia.

Yeah. Where we were told specifically, do not go there. Yeah. People had been kidnapped. Right. People had been kidnapped and executed. And we were like, well, we really don't have much choice. Yeah.

So we did. We traveled those 400 miles. We made a few certain decisions. Like, for example, we weren't going to film. We just filmed in the car. We didn't stop. We hoped that the car wouldn't break down because you never know. The car breaks down.

So that was a really stressful moment. Like those 400 miles clearly do not go there. You have a 50% chance of being kidnapped. Okay. Yeah. And we went because we're very clever. Right, right, exactly. You know, my producer asked that too.

Producer Jason was like, wait, you decided not to go through Mexico. And then you flew the crew to Costa Rica where you then went through this really sketchy 400-kilometer stretch of Colombia, Central America. our brains told us that 2,000 miles in Mexico, Honduras, and El Salvador was too much. That's for sure the case, yeah. And 350 to 400 miles in Colombia, maybe we could do it. Right. Because we didn't have to stop. We would keep going.

We knew that if we had to do these 2,000 miles, we would have to keep stopping. This way, we just kept going. Right. You would have had four days in dangerous territory instead of just like one, butthole clenching day. Exactly. Exactly. I can imagine.

So how do you keep your cool in that situation? Were you nervous the entire time? You have no choice. Yeah. But to stay calm. So you keep going. You stay calm. And also people like the crew and people are looking to you, to me, because I've

traveled a lot, to stay calm. If I flip out, everyone's going to flip out. Yeah. So I'm like flipping out inside, but on the outside, I'm like, yeah, we're fine. Zen. It's all good. Yeah. It's all good.

Downward dog, everybody. Exactly. Yeah. Do you think you've honed your sixth sense for people as a result of this trip, or do you think you had it unlocked beforehand? I think this was like maybe the final piece in the jigsaw to hone that sixth sense. It takes a period of time to kind of have all these experiences and meet people and kind of learn to live with your intuition. But I've definitely honed it.

Is there more to go? Yes. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Like, as you said, editing. There were moments when I talk to people and they're completely the wrong type of person. It's like, A, they were never going to help you. B, they don't want to be on camera.

C, why are you pissing them off? And I've picked them, yeah? So I make mistakes. But often I don't. What's your favorite place that you've been so far? I mean, I personally loved, you know, Sarajevo. I went through that tunnel that you went through where they were sneaking people through. That's a heavy trip.

And the family kind of owns that plot of land. And they talk about, you know, I remember hanging out in Bosnia and meeting guys my own age and younger that had been in concentration camps and had like hand tattoos and stuff and just going like, oh, what's that tattoo mean? And they're like, this is the dots you get when your whole family is rounded up when you're age nine or 10 and thrown in this like barbed wire prison camp. And I thought, wow, did we grow up differently? At my, at that age, I was in Boy Scouts.

The roughest thing I ever did was probably crapping in an outhouse, you know, or latrine that I had to dig myself or something. And this guy was like, are we going to get executed? in this prison camp that where he's i remember one guy told me i can see my school from this place and i just thought like can you imagine being in a barbed wire camp where you can see your house see your school see where you grew up and you're wondering if you're going to get out of there and your parents are with you your little sister's with you just absolutely intense you know that place in sarajevo really was life-changing i've also been to the killing fields

i've been to auschwitz and you go to the have you been to auschwitz I have and the killing fields as well. And I remember the killing fields were especially, they're especially raw, right? Because it's not like, here's a display case and a photo. They have that, but you'll be walking and you'll go, oh, there's a, oh, my God, there's a jawbone with teeth in the ground. I just stepped on that. There's fabric coming out, which is for sure this person's clothing. And they're just everywhere.

You can't clean it up. It's just there's too many bones and teeth and bodies in this place. and it's very much a developing world kind of, I don't want to say tourist attraction, but I guess that's kind of what it is. They just did not make the effort to go, or it's impossible to just really make it a somber memorial. It's just still kind of what would happen

if you left thousands and thousands of bodies in one place at the same time. Did you ever go to the killing field where they had the killing tree? Yes, that was really gross. Do you want to tell us what that? Basically, the killing tree is a tree where they would take the mothers and the children and they would kill the children by smashing them against the tree and watch,

and let the mothers watch and then kill the mothers. I mean, you know. Yeah, it just, it makes you know. No words. It's the opposite of everything that your show stands for in so many ways. I mean, just understatement of the year, right? It's just so incomprehensibly cruel and disgusting. And it expands your mind for what humanity is capable of in the, in like, the wrongest way possible, in my opinion.

And sometimes, because we do that in the show, we show the darkness and we show the light. Because to truly understand the light, you have to truly understand the darkness. You know, if we just showed the light, it'd be like, you know, you wouldn't fully get it. Because as human beings, we have the capacity for both. We have the capacity to be dark. and we have the capacity to be light, and you have to understand them both. That's an interesting editorial choice,

because I think it would have been really easy and, quite frankly, probably simpler to go, you know what, let's just go to places where everybody's nice, if anything weird happens, edit it out because it's going to be kind of a downer. Is that your decision? Yes. Yeah.

And you did that because you wanted to highlight the light. I did that because as humans, we have dark and light. and if you just, if I just show you the light, there's going to be a part of you, maybe unconsciously, there's going to be like, you know, what the hell's all this about? This isn't real. But if I show you the dark and the light, it kind of feels more real because it is real. Because you can plug it into your own experience.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I know you've met some pretty incredible people too, like this one that I saw yesterday was this Turkish adventurer. Well, first of all, you met some random guys like, you should be my cousin. Turns out he's like, the youngest. guy to have climbed all seven continents highest summits and my youngest guy and the only Muslim to have climbed Everest and he did it like twice and his 20s and you just come across

the most incredible people do you think that's a function of those people being a little bit more open to weird stuff like taking a stranger home and a camera crew for that matter I think what it is is that they just open you know so if I'm walking down the street and I feel someone's closed not want to talk to them because it's probably not going to work. But if I feel someone is a little bit open or fully open, then I'll start talking to them. And then you get into their lives and you kind of, you meet their hearts and you meet who they are. And they have amazing stories.

Everyone has an amazing story. If you sit and talk to someone, anyone, whoever it may be, has an amazing story. And that's why the show does so well as well, because it's like an amazing story, which people can relate to as well. They may think, oh, my life is boring or whatever. But you sit down with someone for 15 minutes. I guarantee if you connect with them, you will hear something fantastic. How do you start the conversations?

You know, logistically, like from a tactical perspective, are you just going, hey, can I, I mean, how does it work? Depends on the person. Sure. So, for example, if I have some, because sometimes I have the car with me, meaning like I've parked it and I'm walking and it's just me. Yeah? If I have the car and someone's walking past me, maybe I'll talk about the car. Say, do you want to hear an amazing story? and some will say no, some will say yes,

and then I'll tell them about the car and it's over. Sometimes I'll go up to someone and crack a joke, yeah? Sometimes I'll, it really depends on the moment. It depends on the person, it depends on the level of connection I feel I can get with them. It's kind of, you never know what's going to happen. Like, for example, the guy in season two, episode one, John, the guy who was, you know, a Christian and really clearly relied on his faith. we connected. He was in his car, and I just looked at him, and there was something there.

I walked off a little bit, came back, he got out of his car, looked at him and again, he had like seven dogs. That was it. It was done. Yeah. So he was really a feeling, the dogs, done. Yeah, somebody with seven dogs is probably, it's got a kind heart. Exactly. Otherwise, you never put up with that many dogs. Have you noticed from country to country differences in things like psychological space, like how close you get to someone before you start? conversation. Absolutely. That's a very good point.

So, for example, I'm very careful with how far away I stand from someone, specifically someone I don't know. So I will never make them feel threatened by coming too close. I'll always stand a little bit further back from where I should be standing. And as we start connecting, I start getting closer. Clearly, not super close, but close to the point where it's okay to be at that space. So there are all these little things. It's not just words.

It's not just heart. It's body language. It's energy. It's so many different things. So you find that out through, I guess, probably trial and error once you get into a new culture. Exactly. Exactly. Have you noticed any sort of pattern?

Like, in America, you can be here. But then as we go eastward, it's like, you've got to be this much further away or this much closer. Well, for example, let's say I'm in a more Muslim country. I have to be a little bit more careful going up to the women. Yeah? Because, you know, it's not okay to do that. So I'll go up to the men. In America, it's okay.

I can go up to the men, I can go up to the women, I can go up to whoever I want. If they say, no, that's fine. So each culture has its different foibles, let's say. Well, you have to kind of determine, okay, do this, do that, no, yes, maybe. Also bearing in mind the language barrier. So the first thing I have to do is say, do you speak English? And they all say no. And then finally someone says yes.

And it's like, oh, thank you. Yeah, thank you. And we go from that. What's sort of the biggest flub that you've ever, like I assume at some point, You probably already knew you can't approach women when you're driving across a Muslim country. But what other sort of flubs or foibles have you found where you go, wow, that's pretty surprising. I had no idea. Like, oh, I didn't know I was the amount of eye contact I was making in Asia as rude, like that kind of little subtlety.

I've traveled a lot. And the countries that I've been to, I pretty much had traveled to before. Okay. So I kind of knew how to act. It doesn't mean I always got it right, because I didn't. but I kind of had, I kind of knew how to, how to behave.

That makes sense. You learned that initially and then got to, got to redo it on camera. What have you edited out where you're like, I kind of wanted to leave that in, but it's really bad or it's really, it's too much, or this person wouldn't give us permission,

but damn, I wanted that in the show. Well, there are many moments where people share things and they tell us to turn off the camera and the sound is on. We could clearly, do put it on. So it's not like, yeah, exactly. So we don't do that because that's not authentic.

That's not like, you know, they want to share their hearts. Sneaky. Exactly. So we don't go down that road. You have to give us full permission. I would say that talking from a personal standpoint, the person that you see on the camera when it's finished is the best version of me. Okay. But when you're doing this journey for all this period of time,

you cannot always be like that. So there are moments when I'm not the best version. of me. Yeah? And this is where the power of editing comes in. Right. You could create a show where you're like, this is the kindness guy. What a dickhead. Yeah. He's a dick. But that's because you're under so much pressure. Sure. You're kind of like in this place where there's just so much going on and you can't be perfect. So we've edited it to be the best version of me. If someone wanted to edit it to be the worst version of me, they could. Yeah, my producer has a highlight reel of like my, me blowing a gasket on mic or on camera where I'm just like, this copy for this ad is bullshit.

Who writes this garbage? Just going off or I'll be doing it in a hotel somewhere and somebody will be slamming a door every three seconds or their dumb kids throwing the bags out. And I'm just losing my shit. Yeah. I'm waiting for him to be one day like, hey, I really need you to do this. And I'm like, no. And he's like, you know, I still have that file somewhere of all these like career ending.

temper tantrums that you've had. So I assume that exists for your show as well. I'll highlight real. Of course it does. It goes on the extras DVD. Of course it does. It's locked in a vault. Do you ever reimburse people after the fact like, hey, thanks for being kind.

I'm not, I don't really need need this. And I know that you might need this. Do you ever say like, hey, we should mail that person a couple bucks for what they did? Like, they really went out of their way. Or is it just like, no, I needed this at the time. and this is part of the show? The answer is no, but we have had a few people

call us up and say, you know, I bought your gas to the production, can you give me the money back? And I say to them, not to them, because I'm not chatting with them

to the production team, I'm saying, we're not giving them the money. You know, they paid $10 or whatever. They knew exactly what was going on. What's, you know,

we're not going to give them money. So sometimes it does happen, but we're like, no. Yeah, that's interesting that somebody would bother to you. Exactly.

That's very strange. Like, Hey, I know I was kind, but I really didn't mean to be. I just want to look good on camera. Can I get that cash? So we're like, no, you can't. Yeah. Obviously, the crew eats and sleeps at some of these places. And then they're like, okay, fine. Leon can eat because you're renting three rooms in our lodge. Sometimes that happens.

Yeah, yeah. That's fair, though. Yeah. That's fair. Like, look, I never said I was going to bug everybody for something for, like, hey, we need three rooms, but not from you. You, I want everything for free. From this other hotel down the road is your competitor, we're going to give them $1,000 in business, too. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd love to make a trip like this, especially the Alaska to Argentina type thing. But again, I think I want to do it in maybe a car that has a heater and or a... You should definitely do it in a car that has a heater, please. Might skip the Columbia Kidnap Funnel as well. Skip it. Yeah. Leon, thank you very much.

You can stay at my house any time. I don't know if San Jose is interesting enough for you. No, I love San Jose. Well, next time you're there, we'll do it. All right. Thank you. So, Jason, I'm glad we were finally able to make that work. Really kind of a cool way to dip into that show.

I know you binge watched that show big time. Yeah, you put it in the notes that he was coming up, and I'm like, oh, man, I wish I could go to that. But I sat down two nights in a row barely, I got like three hours of sleep for two nights in a row and watched the entirety of season two. And was just, like, gobsmacked by how awesome that trip was, because I love road trips. You know me. I love road trips. And these were epic road trips. Yeah, I mean, he travels around the world to going to all these places, sleeps in the car or tries to beg for a place to stay, which I thought was kind of cool.

and he actually is just a super fun friendly guy, which, of course, you would expect. And we're actually going to do a giveaway of 20 copies of his book. And we can mail him to Canada or the U.S. Send a direct message to me on Instagram. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Instagram and screenshot your review of the show. And the way that we're going to do that is you review us in Apple Podcast,

aka iTunes, aka whatever they're calling it now. just do an, if you've already reviewed the show, just go and edit it and you can show me you editing the review. And if you are writing a new one, show me while you're writing it. Don't show me like, you know, somebody else's review. I have to know it's yours. Send me that screenshot in a DM on Instagram along with your address and we'll draw 20 winners and we'll send you a copy of the book. It should be a pretty good book. I would imagine he's got a lot of stories in there that don't make it to the show. If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships over time and space.

Well, I've got systems and tiny habits, all detailed in our six-minute networking course, which is free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And the problem with kicking the can down the road and saying you're going to do it later is when it comes to relationships and networking, the number one mistake I see people make is postponing this and not digging the well before they get thirsty. So once you need relationships, you're too late. These drills take a few minutes per day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago.

It's all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Speaking to building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Leon. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, and there's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger. This show is produced in association with Podcast One, and this episode was co-produced by Jason Cannonball Run to Philippo and Jen Harbinger. Show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Remember, we rise by lifting others, so the fee for the show. is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode.

So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like

why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.