The Jordan Harbinger Show - 210: Howie Mandel | A Conversation About Mental Health, Talent, and Perseverance

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Howie Mandel (@howiemandel) is a comedian, actor, host of Deal or No Deal, judge on NBC’s America's Got Talent, and coauthor of Here's the Deal: Don't Touch Me. What We Discuss with Howie Mandel: Why Howie believes it's important for us to be open about our struggles no matter what they are. How being impulsive helped Howie understand the power of "now" and set him on his current career path. Why Howie believes more of us would be ahead and happier if we learned to live in the moment instead of fretting over consequences. What Richard Pryor taught Howie about honing an act and controlling an audience like a conductor -- not always going for laughs, but impact. The real secret to staying married for 40 years. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://jordanharbinger.com/210 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Happier with Gretchen Rubin is a lively, thought-provoking podcast in which the best-selling author and her cohost (and sister) Elizabeth Craft share practical, manageable advice about happiness and good habits. Lend it your ears here! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason DeFilippo. Today we've got a guest I'm especially excited about. I've been a fan of Howie Mandel, even before I knew who Howie Mandel was. I grew up, like many of you, with Gremlins, Bobby's World, The Muppets, Howie does the voices for a lot of these. And he's also extremely open, candid, funny, and caring. And quirky. Don't forget quirky. He's one of the hardest working men in comedy has to be. Howie accidentally outed himself as OCD and a germaphobe on Howard Stern. And instead of ruining his life and career, he became the voice of the disorder in many ways. And he's used that as a lens with which to study human nature, forming the foundation of some of his comedy. This episode is so fun.

It's so interesting. It's also so all over the place. And it has quickly become one of my most favorite interviews I've done in the history of the show. And I know that's a big statement, but we did this in Howie's office. We were there looking at all of his stuff. He collects a lot of showbiz stuff. He's got a really nice team. He's got a really nice office space.

He's just a great dude. I've got a few fun notes and stories for after the show as well. But in the meantime, please enjoy this episode with one of the most prolific comedians of the day. If you want to know how we get this network going where we book all these amazing people, it's always a warm intro.

It's always an introduction through someone else. And these things are falling into our lap. In air quotes, we work really hard for them. That's what I mean by that. But we'll teach you how to do that. how to surround yourself with the right people, and create personal and professional connections that will make you the envy of the whole town.

And it's free. It's a course we're teaching you, six-minute networking, and you can find it at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. By the way, most of the guests on the show actually subscribe to the course and the newsletter. So come join us. All right, here's Howie Mandel.

Oh, so I have to get this part out of the way, otherwise it'll seem like an irresponsible host. The whole OCD thing. Yeah. That has to get done. Otherwise, it looks like I didn't do my homework. Is that your question? It's not a question yet.

It will become a question. Because when you said, let's get it out of the way, that's what I try to do each and every day. Oh, really? From the moment my eyes are open, it's let's get this OCD thing out of the way. Otherwise, it would seem like I'm really not taking care of myself. Are there things you do in the morning to sort of mitigate that, or is it just like? Besides take my medication? You know, there's no mitigating.

There is, you know, and I think that people know, and I've been really open and want to continue. to be open because, you know, I'd like to be a small part of removing the stigma of mental health. And I don't think there's anybody alive or anybody listening to this that doesn't have a mental health issue. You may not have OCD. You may not be bipolar. You may not even be depressed. But I think good mental health promotes good physical health, good economic health, because it would make you, you can't be productive if you can't cope. And so all of us need a certain amount of coping skills, and some of us need more than others. And I have found out through, you know, being surrounded by great family and great professionals, that there are ways

to ease and mitigate, you know, the struggles of life. But when you have OCD, and I also suffer from, you know, anxiety and depression and all these other things, life is a constant battle. But it's a worthy battle. And for the most part, I win all these little smart battles. And whether it's waking up and taking my medication or talking openly like I am right now, not just on a podcast, but with a therapist or with my wife or with my kids, whatever it takes or just a breathing exercise or whatever, there is a constant battle. But I think everybody has a cross to bear. Yeah, I think it's common, but you're right. The stigma is like, oh, I'm probably the only one with this problem and everyone's going to think I'm weird, so I don't want to tell anyone.

You know, in my book, I wrote in my book, that was my, you know, I'm older than, I'm older than you and older than probably most people listening, but I'm in my mid-60s. So as of being a child of the 50s, you know, mental, even the word mental had a stigma, negative. So, you know, people thought I was odd. I had problems coping. I don't have a GED. I wasn't able to stay in school. I was reprimanded for what was considered behavioral problems, which, you know, in hindsight, was part of what it is that I have. But as I was saying, like, you know, if somebody's going through a divorce in life or somebody's losing their job, you know, it makes it hard to go someplace and then function and be happy.

And by that token, for that reason, maybe they need help. And maybe that help is just talking to a friend or just, you know, taking a friend. or just taking a couple of days off work so they can get their head together. Whatever it is, we all need a coping skill to be as productive and as happy as we could possibly be. And ultimately, I think we're all striving for. And when you talk about making it, I don't think it's money. I don't think it's notoriety. I think that making it is being happy with what you're doing and what you're about to do.

and what you did. And I, you know, I just strive. My currency is happiness. It's funny. You should mention making it, because I had this all the way towards the end of the show. And you said on Mark Marin,

I never really feel like I'm making it. And I listened to Conan O'Brien and Howard Stern say the exact same thing on Conan's podcast. And it's shocking, but it also makes me feel a hell of a lot better because when I wake up on many days where I do and go, oh, man, it's hard to grow a show. And is it ever going to be anything more than a podcast

or does that matter to hear you, Conan and Howard Stern also say, well, I never really feel like I really am doing it right. You know, these are external questions and external thoughts. And when you get right inside your body, you know, when you think it's easier to think back, it's actually better for me to think back than to think forward. And the truth of the matter is, you know, whatever you consider making it or whatever you consider a goal,

it's really, and I'll tell you as somebody who's in their 60s, whatever you believe it's going to be and how it's going to make you feel, you don't know until you're there. And the truth of the matter is, you know, as somebody who not only has OCD, but I have ADHD and I have a bunch of other problems that are, not that they, I make them work for me, but they just so happens to be a, a side effect of one of the, you know, I don't think of ramifications. So I'm very impulsive, you know, which was bad for behavior as a child, but also taught me more, it gave me a different path in life. And I believe, and there are books, the power of now. And I believe that you've got to think about now.

And if you think about, you know, I just feel like putting this foot out in front of me. And I just want to lean this way because it's comfortable. And you put that foot out. And then you say, you know, I want to put the other foot ahead. And then I want to put the other foot ahead. you know what, I'm going to put this foot ahead. And then before you know it, you've walked forward. You just end up in a different place. And by the same token, on a dare, I was dared to get up on stage in the mid-70s during the stand-up comedy boom. And I went to see a comedy show and somebody said, I bet you can do that. They were taking amateurs get up on stage. And I went up on stage.

No aspiration to be a stand-up comic per se, to even be in show business, to even be. But I went on a, stage and whatever happened in that moment sparked a light. Well, first of all, it was probably the most in the moment I've ever been out of terror and excitement. You know, my analogy for stand-up comedy is like, I love thrill rides. I still do even at my age. And the scarier it is and the higher it is and the closer you think you're coming to killing yourself, the more thrilling it is and the more you want to get on again and your adrenaline is running. By the same thing, you're going to be on again. By the same, token, I didn't think, and I told you, I don't think of ramifications. Somebody said, Howie, you should get up. And I volunteered and lo and behold, somebody's going,

ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And then I walk out on stage at Yuck Yuck Yuck's Comedy Club in Toronto. At midnight, there's, you know, maybe 60 people standing there of which I don't know many of them. And there's people looking at me and just waiting. And then it struck me. You know, it's funny. I said, okay. It was funny the guy introduced me. It's funny that there's a microphone in front of me and these people are staring in me. And you know what's even funnier? I got nothing. And having that nothing and waiting for these strangers, it's just the terror, the terror set in. And if you watch old YouTube videos of me, you will see. And that became my, yeah, the beginning of the act. That was it. So I was trying to think of something

because I had nothing and I was going, okay, okay, okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, something's coming. And that's out of fear and not knowing what I was going to do. And people started giggling and then I'd go, what, what, what, what? And that became my act. And out of having nothing to do and because I'm OCD and I didn't want to, I'm a germaphobe, I was carrying rubber gloves with me. I ended up pulling one over my head, which became my, you know, I'm the guy with the rubber glove on my head.

It ended up buying me a house. I didn't know that this would be any, you know, so then I finished and it was kind of fun. And as I'm walking off in a sweat, in a cloud, the owner comes up to me, Mark Brezman, says, you want to come back tomorrow night? And I went, yeah. Got to get some more gloves. Yeah. So I came back tomorrow night. And then it was like every night. And for me, that was just a fun experience. Like I'm not into sports. I'm not into gambling. I didn't play cards. So now I found a group, a place where there were Nairdwells who I could relate to. You know, all these weird people.

Yeah. And I could show up every night. And I got to, you know, I got free drinks out of the soda fountain. And they gave us free gingerbread man. And I was standing there. Wait, gingerbread man. What is that? They had at yuck yucks, they used to serve that was big on their menu. They had anatomically correct gingerbread men. You know, gingerbread men. Yeah, but anatomically correct. Yeah. Got you got you.

You not know what I? No, I'm reading between the lines now. I don't know why that's. Look at the line. It's a penis. Yeah. So, so, and, you know, so I got snacks and I got drinks and I got drinks and I got on stage and acted like an idiot.

And other people got on stage after me and acted like an idiot. And there was just this fun thing to do three. four times a week, like you would go and play one-on-one with somebody or play cards with somebody, but that wasn't my job. Right. And then when I came out here, and I say here, I don't know where you're listening to this, but in L.A., I came out on vacation to do some other work and stayed on Sunset Boulevard. And I had met some comedians because at Yak Yaks, one of them being Mike Binder, who is a really

accomplished now director and writer. But at the time he was doing stand-up. He got me a spot on amateur night at the comedy store. And there happened to be a producer in the audience who was George Foster, who had a comedy game show called Make Me Laugh. And he said, you want to do TV? And I thought, I'm in Hollywood. And the first time I'm on stage, a guy says, you want to do TV? Yeah. What?

That's what I said. Wow. He says, show up in my office tomorrow. And it was the first time I was ever on a lot. And it was KTLA here in Hollywood. And I went there, and he had me try to make the secretary laugh. And he said, great, can you tape tomorrow? And I said, yes.

And I had no idea what I was doing. And I taped five shows in one day and went back to Toronto. And it was a great story to tell about my vacation. And as they started airing, they didn't air in Canada. My life was changing. You've got to think 78, 79, you're on TV. Merv Griffin Show saw me. The Mike Douglas show saw me.

I would fly back and forth to do. And then around 1979, I said to my wife, who was not my wife yet, we were engaged. I said, this seems like a fun thing. I'm young. Let's take a shot. Sure. You know, I stopped what I. I was doing, and we both flew out here, and I've been here ever since. Since it wasn't airing

in Canada, didn't people think, like, oh, he's exaggerating what's going on in the States because they're not seeing it. And it's like, oh, yeah, I'm going to be on this TV show, and it's airing, and everyone's seeing it. No, first of all, I didn't, I'm not, you know, I wasn't a social butterfly, and still am not. I didn't have a lot of friends, and I wasn't really sharing. They were unbelievable these calls to me, so it was just between me and my fiancee. When I sit to the family, I'm going to move out and try it. They went, try what? And I went, well, I'm going to, it just seems like I'm getting a lot of calls.

I'm going to try it for a little while. But I remember I got the Merv Griffin Show, which was a big deal. You know, it's a big nationally syndicated talk show, which, you know, for anybody, you know, in show business, these are the things you strive to do. I did the Merv Griffin Show and my friends from Toronto, or people that knew me, called me and said, I saw you on TV, and did you see me? It was so exciting. It was just as exciting for me as it was.

for anybody else who's seeing me. But my in-laws, my wife or at the time, my girlfriend's parents, didn't phone. And even two days later, they didn't phone. And it freaked me out. I go, did your parents not see it? My parents called. Did your parents not see it? I mean, because it was a big deal.

We left. We moved 3,000 miles away from home. I took their daughter. I said, this might be the path we're going to choose. How can your parents not call when I'm on a nationally syndicated TV show? So after three days, she calls her parents. And she says to them, Terry is my wife, says to her parents, did you not see Howie on TV on the Mergriffin show? And they went, yeah, what happened?

And she went, what do you mean? What happened? Well, you said he got a job and he was going to be on that show. And she says, yeah, did you see him? Yeah, what happened? He's going, what do you mean what happened? Well, we watched him. And then we turned him on the next day.

And was he fired? Because you weren't there the next day? They didn't understand. And right now they're just starting. to grasp what this business is and like not going, you know, it's kind of old school. You get up in the morning early and you go to work and you spend all day at work and then you don't, you know, it's even now, and I find it kind of funny, like even in what I'm doing, you just said to me before we got on the air, you must be really busy.

Somebody said that to me. There's a whole lot of stuff going on. Who knew, right? But the truth of the matter is, if you really think about what I'm doing, even though I'm on all these shows, it's not really like the average person goes to a full-time job. I'm not getting up at 7 in the morning and going to an office at 9 and working until 6 o'clock and doing, you know, I'll spend a couple of hours talking to you. And then I might go to a club and, you know, work on, you know, for a half hour just to write some material.

I will show up, you know, we've done all the auditions for this season, season 14 of AGT. So in August, the live shows come. It's live. So on Tuesdays and Wednesday nights, I'll show up for an hour and sit there and watch the show. and tell people what I think of their singing or dancing or whatever they're doing. And that's my whole day. Or I'll do the voice for animals doing things, which is another show premiering, you know, this June on Nat Geo Wild. When does it come out?

Does anybody know what day at it premieres? Somebody will tell us in just a minute. That's the beauty of, you know what? I want to tell the listeners. There's nobody else in the room. But if I go, what date does it come out? It seems like I have more people working with me. Will you ask Miriam to ask David to tell Lisa that I'm looking for a schedule for when animals doing things theirs?

Saturday, June 8th. Saturday, June 8. Said nobody in the back of the room because we're the other one. It's me throwing my voice. People know I do voices. Animals doing things. That's on Nat Geo Wild. So I took some Instagram site that I loved, animals doing things.

I showed it to Natio Wild. I put my voice on it. And now it's a show we're in season two. And then on June 12th, the new season of Dealer, no deal premieres. That's why they said, can you air this on June 11th? And we said, sure. That's fine. That's a random request. Tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, CNBC, all new season two of deal or no deal for a million dollars. All the models, a new banker. It's huge. Future Princes of Wales. But I already, the Future Princess of Wales was that she's now the Duchess of Sussex. I don't know what she's.

Or maybe we have a future Princess of Whale. And you don't know. Like, I don't know yet because it hasn't aired. But you have the ability to kind of before it airs, tell me what position a model will be in. It's the beauty of the job, yeah. It is. So what I'm saying is I've already taped that. That's done. So then, you know, it seems like I got a full schedule, but I'm not going to work each and every day from nine to six. So I've done a full season of deal or no deal. I've done the full season of animals doing thing. I have a special on demand now. My first stand-up special in 20 years. I saw it. I enjoyed it. Thank you very much.

And if you want to enjoy it, don't tell people, because America's got talent, deal or no deal, and animals doing things are all family-friendly, co-viewing kind of thing. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't let the kids stream the comedy. The comedy. Yeah. I got it on iTunes. We'll link it in the show notes.

But yeah, maybe this is the one thing with Howie that you don't have the kids in the room. Right. But then again. So I went out because the lovely people in Atlantic City at the Hard Rock Hotel opened the Howie. Mandel Room. They asked me to come to the opening. I went to the opening. I said, can I bring cameras? I haven't been on camera as a stand-up comic for 20 years. So I tape that. But that's dumb. So all this stuff where you see me and even listening to me on this podcast, even as you're listening to this podcast now, I'm not doing this. This is not live. Right. I am somewhere right now,

as I'm saying this, this is weird. I'm going to be listening to this too. I'm listening to this. I'm not doing this. I'm relaxing. You know why? Because I did this. This is not now. This was then. This is something I talked about. Do you mind if I take a moment? Because I know I'm a huge fan of this podcast. Oh, I appreciate it. And I'm glad that I'm on it. Yeah. But I listen to it. Never miss an episode. Do you mind if I say hello to myself? Go ahead. Yeah, do it. Hi, Howie. This is so weird, because I'm listening to me on this show. Hi, Howie. I wish I could call in. Oh, yeah. No, but I have so many questions of myself. You can write it. You can write in for the next time. Really? Yeah, I'll say that. I had no idea. Yeah. All right. I'm available Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. It's a real address.

Friday? Friday. Because it's it, because those episodes air on Friday. I would love to reclaim my train of thought. I think the beauty of doing something like this is we can edit it and make it look perfect, but I never do that. You never edit this. I edit it, but I don't make it look perfect. I like to leave in the little like flavals and little flubs, unless it sounds racist or something, then it's, then it's gone. Well, the word flabel, I think, is a racist. It could be, it could be considered a slur in some context, yeah. Some sort of, oh my God, I'll be honest with you, and you can edit this out, but I can't stand the fucking flables. Because, no, I'm being honest. They're not a nice group of people.

The flavals? The flavals. Yes. We have to keep the flavals out of this country. Does that sound racist? That does sound, yeah. It does sound racist. Do you know flavals? Do you know any flavals? I'm sure that I know some in there.

Probably great people. But I just, I can't think of any offhand that I hang out with regularly. Well, if you know a flabel and you have, you know, an argument to do people, can they comment after? They can. Send it in. Sure. Yeah. Thank you.

So there's going to be plenty of that. The flavor uproar. The flavor uproar. I'm going to get a lot of one-star flabel reviews. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Howie Mandel. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard,

visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to Jordan Harbinger.com.com slash subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all the latest episodes in your podcast player when they're released, so you don't miss a single thing from the show. show. Now back to our show with Howie Mandel. You revealed the OCD secret at the time on Stern, but you knew that he was recording, right? It sounded like he went to a commercial break. No. So you didn't

even know. No. I didn't know that I was on the end. So what happened was we were doing, not unlike we're doing now, we were doing an interview. And he says, thank you. And we'll probably go to commercial and thank you, Howie, and this was a great out. And I got up. And I got up. And I started walking to the door, and I thought he was, like, wrapping it up and going to commercial. And then I just said to somebody really quietly, can you grab the, can you grab the door? And the guy goes, no. And he goes, what's wrong? I go, I don't want to, I don't want to touch the doorknob because I think it's probably dirty. Well, they had a guy in there who was tying his penis and knots and where I did your legs. Yes. He did that puppetry of the penis kind of guy.

Are you surprised that I knew that? Yes. I looked it up. Okay. So there was a. guy that, you know, at the time on the radio, when he was on terrestrial radio, he'd have different, you know, three or four people in at the same time. And one of them was this guy who did weird things with his penis, which I still believe probably makes great radio. Yeah. But the thing is that he was touching his penis and there was no place to disinfect. And he left before me. And then he wrapped it up with me. And, you know, that's one of the things, you know, I'm like an eagle eye.

Like if I see that you touch something, then I want to follow the trail. Yeah. You know, if I see you touch something, if I see you, like, even wipe your nose or something, and then I'm like that finger, then I want to see the finger, and the finger touch the water. The water touched, and then you put your hand on the side of the chair. Oh, no. So I know the side of the chair. You have no idea.

I'm always multitasking. I'm not only answering this question. I'm keeping track of every one of your fingers and digits and where you've put them, and then where they go after they've been put. And then I will go after you leave. I have a little lysol and some fabric, and I clean up after this home. You do it, or does, like, someone else have to do it? I have my own flable.

You have your own flabel? You got a flabel that comes by. Yeah, that's what they're good for. So anyway, the thing is that, so I track the guy's hand to the knob, and I didn't want to touch the knob, and I was saying to, I can't remember I was saying it to Jackie, whoever was there, you know, get the door, open the door, and he's going, what are you afraid of the door? from behind his mic he goes he afraid of the door i go i just don't like germs can somebody grab it i was

wearing short sleeves so i couldn't pull down my sleeve or anything i went to grab a Kleenex they grabbed the Kleenex box for me they didn't know how serious it was right yeah so so and then he goes just open the door and i got can't open the door he goes just open the door and then what happened is i started getting a panic attack and i started breathing heavy and my heart was pounding and then i just said i just turned to him and thinking that he had already thrown the commercial because he was just talking to me. Howard, please, this is really serious. I go to therapy for this. I have something called obsessive-compulsive disorder. I'm about to pass out. If you don't open the door for me now, you'll be calling 911 and taking me to the hospital. So they opened the door, and as the door

closed behind me, I can hear them continually, continue to talk about. Can you believe it? He couldn't open the door. And I go, oh, my God, this whole thing was on the radio. I thought we went to commercial and he was talking to me. And it was on national radio. I started. I thought, oh my God, I have just been outed as in those terms at that time, a mental case, which was not a positive. And more importantly, I thought it was really embarrassing for me to let that out because I have three children who are in school and a wife. They have nothing to do with this business, and they're going to be ridiculed because I came

out as a mental case. Number one. You failed your family. You're embarrassed. So I have embarrassed the family, number one. And number two, I've also kind of let it be known that, you know, anytime you go into a production, you know, you're going to go do anything in television or film, you know, there's a lot of money and insurance and you have to go get a checkup.

And who's going to want to put millions of dollars of insurance behind somebody who could snap at any moment? So that's the end of my career. It's the end of my family's happiness. And I remember walking down the hallway and down the elevator. and I've just been in, that was probably the darkest space I've ever been, and I'm walking through the lobby toward the door out into the teeming streets of Manhattan, and I just didn't know what to do, and I could see the traffic going by in front of me, and I thought, you know what,

this is, I might as well just continue walking and walk right into traffic. And I stopped just outside the door, and, you know, millions of people are on the street, but I felt very alone, and some guy came into my periphery and said to me, are you, Howie, man? and I said, yeah, I barely said yes, but I went, you know, I just nodded affirmatively. And he said, just heard you on stern. And my heart dropped into my stomach. And I said, this is the beginning at the end. I'm just about to take off.

And right before I could take off in the traffic, he said two words, which means something very different today, but they changed my life. And he went, me too. Wow. And I went, what? And he goes, me too. I suffer from anxiety and depression. That was so great hearing that I'm not alone.

And I go, you too? And at that time, there was no email or texting or, you know, social media. So I started getting letters. And it was amazing how many people and how comforting. And then how I realized how important it is, not just for me, for anybody that has any issue, any issue, just to talk. You know, I think there's a reason why what we're doing right now is an industry. There's a reason why there is a need for podcasts. There is a need for us to not only do.

be entertained and informed, but to have a connection, to find something relatable, to find something interesting, to find maybe an idea for a passion that you don't know you have right now. But if we don't communicate, even with ourselves, and we're not open, and we just close off, that's the barriers that we put up in our lives. And that's the barriers we put up in making it. And what I learned about, and I'm coming full circle to the beginning of this conversation, if you asked me, when did you know you made it? You never know you made it. You never feel like you made it.

And if you feel like you made it, to me, that kind of tates like the end. You know, so then there's no more of this. I'm, you know, when you get to the top of the mountain, the only way out is down. So if I think back, the moment I made it was the moment somebody said, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And I walked on that stage with it. absolutely nothing. But that was the most exhilarating, fun, scariest, weirdest, in the moment place I have ever been in my life. And anytime I can get on stage and any time I could talk,

and any time I'm in front of an audience, I'm just trying to recapture that. And there is no amount of money, there is no amount of recognition that means anything. You know what I mean? We're all heading to that exact same spot. I mean, we'll pick our own plot. I mean, we'll pick our own But we're all heading the same place. So if somebody has a couple of bucks more, it's not going to make a difference when you're in the ground. If somebody, no matter how famous you believe you are or how many people know you or how many people are downloading this podcast, it will mean nothing in three decades.

You know, I watch. I have grandkids now. My grandkids at this point have no concept of what the Beatles are. Sure. You know, so what does that mean? Did they chase that notoriety and that kind of fame? kind of exposure for for what right you know so if you're looking to be famous or you're looking to have a lot of money that's kind of insular you know i think you've got to look for something that when you open

your eyes that you know that battle that you talked about whether it's getting over my oCD something that you're just excited about that day and something you're excited about doing and somebody you're excited about seeing something you want to talk about something you want to I just think that the problem in this world today is that we don't, we kind of have everybody else's image of what making it and being successful is and not our own. I think we're all on an equal playing field. You know, I did an interview for CNBC and, you know, people go, I want to be, like, famous and as successful is Elon Musk, you know? Oh, yeah. But the truth of the matter is, the only difference, and I've said this in other interviews, the only difference between Elon Musk and

anybody listening to this, including myself, because I know I'm listening to this, I'm a huge fan of mine. But any, the only difference is he's doing it and you're not. That's the only difference. If you really, really, really, really were passionate about doing something specifically, you know, amazing, you would do that. Yeah, you would go into your garage and say, how can I figure out a way that people can pay for whatever they shot for online and you come up with PayPal. Or you could be in your room designing the next rocket ship if you wanted to. But most people don't want to. They want the accoutrements of doing whatever it is.

They want to be well known. Like a lot of people want to be a famous comedian, but not many people want to go up on stage with a rubber glove or no idea, no plan, embarrass themselves, write stuff and then have people not laugh at it. You know, but you read these inspirational T-shirts. and things of the journey, but it is the journey because the journey is really short and you have to enjoy every step of the way. And whatever you think you're achieving, it's not going to make any difference. The only thing that you could try to put that on a t-shirt. What? Whatever you think

you're achieving is not going to make any difference. And then a rainbow, I think. I love that. We should work for Hallmark. But it doesn't make a difference. It's only to you. Whatever you think is important. Whatever your image of being well-known is or being successful is, is not. never like it is. It's a dream. The only reality, the only thing that exists is this second. You know, I don't know what's going to happen a minute from now. Nobody knows. And it's only a memory of what happened a minute ago. So the only thing that's real is right now. So if you set goals for yourself, or you have plans or these, you know, what you're really saying, and this is a glass being half empty is you're not there. This is all the things that I want that.

that I don't have, and you shouldn't spend a moment thinking about what you don't have and what you want, you've got to think about how do I make this moment, this second, the most fun, the most interesting, and the most exciting, because that's all you have, and that's all I do every minute of the day. And I fight for that. I don't achieve that, but that's what I fight to do. As soon as I start wandering, like, I always believe that, you know, we all think too much. I try not to think. like getting in our head and just always always you know i think impulse in humanity is the is the strongest character that we have is is is is impulse is our impulse you know and how many times have you done this or

thought you were going to do something and then thought about it and maybe i shouldn't do this this could happen this couldn't happen and then you go back and you go shoulda coulda whata whata you know i knew i should have done and you know if we go with our instinct and we do what we want to do and we do not what we think we should be doing, as long as you're not hurting anybody, I think we would all be ahead and happier in this world. Yeah, there's definitely something to that. And I think it is easy to look at 20-20 hindsight and go, oh, you know, I should have done this or maybe this would have gone smoother. And I know from your own journey, just from the book, which by the way is called, it's called Here's the Deal, Don't Touch Me. And we'll link to that in the show notes. It's a great

title. You mentioned that you think you might have become a performer because you wanted attention from your mom. Do you still feel like that's the... Well, you know, and then again, I'm not a professional, but you know, you analyze... This seems like in hindsight, looking back, this is such a weird path. Your path.

Yeah, but I think everybody has a weird path. I'm sitting here with you who started to do a podcast. You told me 13 years ago. 13 years ago, so 13 years ago, I defy you to ask anybody what a podcast was. Yeah.

And find like, one out of 10 people may have heard of it. I wouldn't have 13 years ago. I know for myself. So what makes somebody do? It's the same thing. The same answer for me as it is for you or anybody that is doing something where they didn't just go to school, graduate, and get a job working for somebody.

And I've talked about this many times, the connotation of what our normal life is. The normal life is, if you listen to radio where you said you started, you know, Wednesday was considered hump day. What is hump day? Hump day is the connotation of getting halfway through. You're almost over the hump of the shit that you have to do all week to what? To get to the weekend just so you don't have to do it. Not even to do something you want, just so you don't have to do that.

Sure. So our normal path in life, and when I say normal, I mean the most common path in life is you go to school, you learn some shit that you're really not interested in. You go get a job and you pay your rent. But are you happy? No, you got hump day. Not really. So all these people, including yourself, who are doing kind of something they want, something they created, some way of doing it, sometimes you can look back and you go, well,

how did I get here? And what is it that made me come here? You know, and maybe it was the need I to what you just said. You know, I was an only child until my brother was born three years later. And I remember, you know, at that time, losing 5% of the attention. 5%. Well, I still had 95%. I was walking. It were three years different. I was walking and talking. He was a meatball that came home, right? And didn't have to do it. They had to put him to bed, swaddle them and clean him up. Yeah. But so whatever that took away from me is really still kind of emblazoned in my mind. So maybe it was just about getting attention, good, bad, and ugly. just I needed attention. So I don't know. I'm being self-analytical. I don't think it's really good to analyze, but I do. And just when I have that spare time, and I do have a lot of spare time, even though I'm doing a lot, you know, these are the kind of things I think of. Like what made me move 3,000 miles away from anybody I've ever met, known, into a bit with nobody. You know, this is, I'm out here in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah. Did you feel like your life wasn't working when you moved? I mean, you were, you did have your girlfriend or fiance at the time. time, but you mentioned you didn't have that many friends. So did you feel like you weren't really uprooting too much since she was coming with you? No thought. In fact, the fact that I was going to go and she was going to come with me was an added pressure. And I wanted her to come with me because I didn't want to be by myself. But at the same time, I felt a huge responsibility that I'm taking another human being on this wacky ride, you know. But she was more gung-ho than I was. There were no. There were many times where I was going to and almost did, and we could talk about that a little later, quit and say, I'm going home. This is just too hard. It's just not, it's not making me happy.

There's a lot of rejection. There's a lot of, you know, public humiliation. There's a lot of, and I go, why am I putting, why am I subjecting myself to this? And there were many times where she said to me, Howie, I admit that this moment and these things you're hearing and this thing you watched and this this particular project is devastating. But think about when it does work, these, and I do get those moments too, those highs, you really want to walk away from that? It gave me second thought. And, you know, my highs are even now, like, regardless of all the shows I do and wherever

you can see me, I'll drop in on a comedy club that has 11 people sitting there at 2 in the morning. And if I could find something that makes them laugh, there's no better warm blanket to be bundled in than that, then 11 strangers laughing at something I just concocted. People must be stoked to see you at 2 o'clock in the morning on like a Thursday and they're just thinking, all right, well, the night's pretty much over and then suddenly you show up. And I mean, that must be like a big deal. Sometimes, but then after that, I like to, I, because I want to know, if I'm dropping in

the club, I really want to, you know, my biggest inspiration, and I've talked about this before in what I do in comedy and in life was Richard Pryor. Yeah. You know, and when I came out here in the 70s, Richard Pryor was out here, and he would show up at the comedy story each and every night putting together his act for live on the Sunset Strip, which I believe is one of the seminal stand-up comedy concerts ever. And I watched him. It was the first time I was cognizant of somebody walking on stage with the tools of comedy without it fully being built, constructed. It was kind of like the IKEA of comedy. He had ideas.

He had notes. He was crossing lines that had never been crossed before as far as maybe drug use, relationships, you know, his upbringing. And it was scary and real. And he would try. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that's a great. Where else? You know, now it's a different world because people are so politically correct.

But this was a safe haven to find that line, cross the line. And so I love. showing up. I'll do a concert someplace in town. And if I'm not tired in the middle of Oklahoma, I'll say, is there a comedy club nearby after the show? And I'll go to the show. And hopefully it's like way at the end of the night. There's only 11 people left in the room. They're not sitting together. Three of them are drunk, inebriated. They're not even sure they heard my name right. They might be excited for a second. But I would let that ease, that excitement of seeing me. And then, you know, maybe start with the conversation, just so that I can take a hunk that I haven't tried in front of

people and see after the excitement of maybe seeing somebody they didn't expect goes away, can I make you laugh at this in the middle of nowhere, out of nowhere, no context, nothing? And there's something really heartwarming about finding, you know, words and thoughts where a complete stranger, you know, there's no better comfort in knowing that somebody relates to, you know, even if it's in a sense of humor. Sure. They know what I'm talking about. It's like when you're with your wife or you find, you know, you find another person or a good

friend that we're just on the same wavelength. Sure. We can do that. And that's the rhythm that you try to get into with an audience, you know, and there's nothing more freeing and naked feeling than humor. Because humor, you know, I've talked about this before also, where you go to an amateur night and you see people get up and you go, it's absolutely terrible. How the hell does he or she even think that they have a possibility of making this? And there's nothing more painful than watching

somebody just die on stage. But truth be told, if you think about it, nobody's there out of their own fruition. So somebody told them, hey, you should go to the comedy club. You should try this. And then you find out that even when you start spewing whatever it was that Uncle Nathan at the Thanksgiving dinner table was laughing at is only shared by Uncle Nathan, you realize, oh my God, this isn't what I thought. And by the same token, I've also told this story about when I got to play at Radio City Music Hall. And I sold out two shows in one night. So that's 7,000 seats about 7,000 people. And in between shows, I'm looking out onto 7th Avenue from my dressing room with my wife. and 7,000 people are walking out of the first show and 7,000 people are walking in.

So right on the corner of 7th Avenue, 14,000 people are blocking traffic. The cops have their stanchions up. And my wife goes, this is all for you. How come you don't look really excited? I'll tell you where my mind went. My mind went that I'm in New York City. There's 10 million people here. So there's 14,000 people out on the street.

That means that 9,9,986,000 people don't give a shit and don't want to see me. Or couldn't get tickets. But hey, or look on the back. I love you with the glass. Not only, it's overflowing. It's not half full. But the point that I'm making is, so if you can get a room or 11 people or 12 people to kind of come along on your ride with you, there's nothing better. You think this is funny, too?

You think that's basically what I'm saying. You know, this is a, I'm going to say something outrageous. Six people laugh. I go, oh, my God. Then that must be funny. And it's after the wave of excitement of seeing a surprise and after that. And that's what I like to try. And the harder it is, and the harder the room is, the more I kind of luxuriate in that awkwardness.

Sure. Yeah, of course. Well, it's more of a challenge in a way. And I need to be challenged. I understood having gone into this business why people who are in the music business sometimes shy away from play. You know, I went to the concert and he didn't play any his hits. Yeah.

You kind of get the fact that there's no challenge. They should, and that's what I love about the Rolling Stones, and they always give the audience what they're there to see. But as somebody who does stand-up comedy and did up to 300 live dates a year up until the last six years, now I do about 100, because I'm doing a lot more television. Still, that's a lot. I mean, think that's... Well, the reason you're here you're talking to me in Van Nuys,

because I'm right next to the airport, and I'll go out of four times a week. take off and go on the road. You mentioned pre-show. That was the secret to stand married for 40 years, is being gone a lot. Well, I've been married for 40 years. My wife will tell you. They'll say, what's the secret?

And she'll say he's not here. She'll say he's not here. And I feel like the luckiest guy in the world, and I'm lucky to have her, and she's made every positive decision I've ever had in my career and in my life and given me children and who've given me grandchildren and everything there,

but she'll tell you what she loves about me most is that I'm not here. So apparently, if you're enjoying this podcast, if you turn the channel or go to something else, you'll love me even more. Because if you can't hear me and you're not around me, you'll love me. Extrapolating. You love me for up to 40 years.

So if you're enjoying me, but you want to enjoy me more, I would turn this off right now. I would. I mean, it's not even me. It's my wife. My wife is probably not listening to this. You know why?

Because she loves me. Right, because she loves you. She wants to keep things working. Yeah. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Howie Mandel. We'll be right back after this. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us on the air.

And to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. And if you're listening to the show on the Overcast player, please click that little star next to the episode. We really appreciate it. And now for the conclusion of our episode with Howie Mandel. You did mention the Richard Pryor Act. I think it was either in an interview or possibly also in the book. And he said he'd, at the end of the act, he kind of like,

he didn't end on a big laugh. He did some social commentary about how we're children. Well, there was one bit in particular, and I know which bit you're talking about. And this is where I knew he would experiment. He was experimenting with like a conductor with an orchestra and the audiences orchestra. What emotions can you control? How do you control this audience? I want laughter now, laughter now, laughter now, and then how can I take you on this emotional roller coaster? And one night he came in, and I'm not going to do this any justice, but I'll never forget it because it kind of left a mark in, you know, how I believe that somebody should act on stage or what we got to go before he sent a bar, which I will never be able to achieve. But he walked in one night. The audience

was roaring. He came up and he goes, you know, I'm God. He said he was God. And he was just stopping by because it's 10 o'clock and he's got to pick a son up. So he's looking for his son. And they were kind of laughing and, you know, I'm obviously not doing it justice, but he was really funny and really lovable. And he was acting like God. And he goes, I'm here to pick up my son. And Then he comes to realization. You know, my son, he doesn't wear pants, wearing a robe, he's got a thing. His name's Jesus. Has anybody seen him?

And then he mimed like, where's Jesus? What the fuck did you guys do to Jesus? What did you do to my son? What did you do to my son? And he starts screaming, the fuck did you do to my son? And then it gets kind of serious. We're all waiting for the punchline. He goes, okay, okay, okay, okay.

Bring me, and I can't remember because it's years and years ago, but he went through a whole litany of people. All right, I want to talk to Martin Luther King right now. Bring me Martin Luther King right now. Where is he? What the fuck did you do with Martin Luther King? And then, you know, he did the same thing with Kennedy. Where's Kennedy?

What did you do? And, you know, it was just silent in the room. And then he turns and looks at everybody with a tear coming down his eye. And he goes, you know, after he said, you know, we killed his son. We killed Martin Luther King. We killed some apostles. We killed Kennedy. And he just looked over the silence.

And he went, you're on your own. And he walked out of the room. and God left the room. And it was such a moving, powerful, brave, historical moment, never to be repeated. It wasn't in his special. And I certainly didn't do it any justice right now on this podcast. But he, it was just like, I thought there's no end to his bravery and freedom that he takes as soon as there's a mic in front of him.

What did that do for your comedy? Like did you, because you started off a little, is it a, what's the term? Is it absurdist where you're pulling the glove or your head or like doing, I don't know the technical. I don't have a technical word for what I did. It was a guy who really didn't have an, I was discovering my act on stage. I had, you know, 80% personality, 20% material. That's what it really was.

And the truth of the matter is, and that's how I learned. but I also learned from a bit like that that it doesn't necessarily have to get a laugh to be interesting, to be entertaining, to be informative. And you need to be, I was so scared that any moment, that was part of the energy of the what, what, what, what, no way, that any moment was not going to go over well. And he taught me, and I'm not.

not, still not, but he taught me he seemed fearless. And whatever we do in life, fear is not a great emotion. It really isn't fear. Anything you do out of fear will never turn out. You need to be fearless. You need to if you're going, and I say this to the people that are on America's got talent. If you really want to do well, just own it and have no fear that we won't like it. The audience won't like it.

It's not funny. It's not. Just he seemed to go all in on whatever he was doing. And even if it was an epic, dramatic, religious statement, he was all in and performed that in the same way and with the same gusto that Gallagher would smash a watermelon. You know? Yeah. I do understand that.

Do you think it's easier for somebody who, here's the counter argument that somebody's going to have who's listening or watching? They're going to go, well, fine, Richard Pryor can do that because if everyone's like, what the hell was that, he's still Richard Pryor. So it's harder for me being on America's Got Talent tomorrow night or something to go out there and try something brave because I have everything to lose. Do you? What do you have to lose? I don't know.

Me personally, I don't know. I wouldn't have the guts. I don't think. But that's all I say. You just said it. It's guts. Yeah. So as soon as we all realize that everybody, you, Richard Pryor, anybody, anybody,

anybody listening, me, we're all on an even playing field in that game of humanity. So, you know, the fear and the weight of any particular moment, you're putting on yourself. Nobody is putting it on you. Nobody expects me when they go, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel, to be the next Richard Pryor. If I'm trying to be the next Richard Pryor, then that's on me. It's really not, nobody expects it to be. So anything, and what I learned was nobody was more surprised than me at getting a career.

And I say that even now. As I listen to as I listen to what I'm saying, there's nobody more blessed, more excited, more thrilled, and more baffled by the fact that still, even today, in my 60s, that somebody wants me to show up and talk. You know, I don't, all this pressure and all these arguments and everything you just said to me is self-inflicted. And that's the problem with our world. If you're going to don't inflict anything, you know, just be numb. You got to be numb. You've got to be numb and in your own little world. You really, to achieve happiness.

Because even if you're doing something, you know, I want to be a painter. Well, if you start painting and you think, this is going to be, people are going to laugh at this. This is not good. This looks nothing like the Mona Lisa. I'm so not, you know. You don't have the talents. I don't have the talent. But if you're thinking that, then you're not going to enjoy it.

If you could just lose yourself in it and just paint and have a good time in the process, that's all it's there for. You know, 90% of the big artists from decades and decades ago didn't even make it in term making it until after they were dead. Somebody found their stuff. So what they found was they found the remnants of somebody's passion, which wasn't even acceptable. at the moment. So they have to go through a whole life of misery for you to figure out two decades later that this is really good. Yeah. So don't worry about anybody else. You know, my biggest audience and the audience that I have to cater to is me. And it gets harder and

harder because now with the advent of social media, I can't tell you how, and I need social media because that promotes. That's how maybe there's two listeners right now on this podcast that are listening only because I tweeted about it. Oh, I appreciate that. I appreciate that feature, Howie. It was a nice of you. But the point is so that by the same token, I'm also seeing comments that aren't that favorable sometimes, a lot of times. Oh, so you check it yourself.

Yeah. Wow, man. I think a lot of people don't because they can't actually take what they see on those feeds. I think most people do see it themselves and say that, well, maybe have a social media person, but everybody sees the shit that is written about them. I think it's probably pretty popular to say, I don't see it. If I don't see the good ones, I don't see the bad ones. It's dismissive.

But the truth is, it is hurtful. It is there. When you're in this business, people act differently than they would ever act. You know, when I shave my head, somebody shows up in an elevator, they go, you're Howie Mandel. I go, yeah, they go, why do you shave it? your head. I like your curly hair. Like, who says that to a stranger? I can't even say to my wife, I don't like those pants on you. How can you say to a stranger, you don't like my hair?

Because they know you, right? They think they know you. They know each other. You know, you look skinny in person. Well, is that a positive? Do I look fat on TV? Do I not look good here? But because I'm on TV or because I'm in there, they're so comfortable, people are comfortable to kind of share. That's why you can't be concerned about what other people think. You have to be concerned, and this is what I learned from therapy. My happiness and how I'm able to cope is predicated on how I act. I'm the boss of me. It's powerful, but I, okay. And I don't, it's hard to practice. I figured that was the next thing to come out because I thought, okay, that's brilliant and I love that. But then I think back to like when you're opening for

earth, wind and fire, which by the way, comedy opening for a music group has disaster written all over it generally. And that was, you know, generally, that was, you know, generally, that was my job. That was your bread and butter. It was opening up the music. To be hated and humiliated in front of thousands. And in my hometown, you talked about Earth, Wind and Fire, Earth Win and Fire played Toronto.

The week after, I'm trying to remember who it was, but in Chicago, people got trampled because the doors opened late, I think was for a Who concert. Oh, man. And people died. And the next week, Earth, Wind and Fire, which was having the, you know, their biggest tour ever, was from the Pyramid album, you know,

their biggest hits ever, playing Toronto and a big part of it was pyrotechnics and magic special effects and they weren't getting it done in time. I remember it was, do you know who Doug Henning was? Doug Henning was a very big magician. He was like the David Copperfield of that time. I have heard that name. Yeah. Yeah. And he's Canadian. And he was doing, he did all the magic and the pyro for Earth, Earth, Wind and Fire for their stage show. And they weren't going to have it set in time and they have to hold the doors closed because people got trampled by holding doors closed for a who concert in Chicago. The promoter called me and said, we're going to open the doors, we're going

to close the lights in the room, and they're going to do the last minute changes on the stage and building while you're performing just under a spotlight. But what happened is I went out there in front of 20,000 people. It was 1980, I think it was, or 79 or 81. I can't remember exactly when it was. It's my hometown. It was Maple Leaf Gardens, you know, the home of the Maple Leafs. Yeah. Well, the arena where hockey is king. The hockey, yeah, arena. You know.

I'm from Detroit. I should know stadium versus arena. Well, maybe hockey's bigger in Detroit. It is. Yeah. Red Wings. So the point was that it wasn't going good. I started swearing, and I didn't know they pulled the plug on the mic, and all the

sound went off in the room. They started chanting, Earth went in fire, Earth went in fire. Somebody signaled me from the side of the stage to come over. I walked over. They said, come here for a second. and then they locked me in a room, and I heard an announcement. Over my hometown, 20,000, the biggest arena is saying, due to the content, the ill-thought-out content of the opening act, Earth, Wind, and Fire is delaying their concert

a half an hour. Giant booze, like such hatred, such humiliation, you know, and that was. So they just blamed you for that. Did they just need more time? Yeah. And they were just like, oh, well, we're going to throw Howie into the bus. Yeah, I was under the bus. Under a bus probably would have been more comfortable than a,

I felt I would, if I would have, if somebody said, you want to stay locked in this room and hear the humiliation, or would you rather just be under a bus? I think under a bus. Yeah. And by the same token, there's a picture right here, which you can't see, but right there, it's me and Diana Ross. Did you see that? I haven't seen it, but I'm going to ask it. Yeah. Can somebody bring that? Look at that picture. I just went to her 75th birthday. That's incredible. So I talked about doing the, she wrote me a note. She said, I'll never forget the time. This was a couple of weeks ago. She just at her 75th birthday. Oh, wow.

Is that cool? I don't know where. It's really good for 75. Doesn't she? That's amazing. I saw that photo. I didn't even occur to me. This is two weeks ago.

That's incredible. Yeah, so this is two weeks ago. And she wrote me a little letter. I'll never forget the time we worked together. So at the time when I was getting called back and forth from Toronto, I did Merv Griffin. Yeah. And her boyfriend at the time, do you know who she lived with? Gene Simmons, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, Gene Simmons of Kiss phoned me and said, would you like to open up for my girlfriend? So I said, okay, and I was her opening act. The audience hated me every night, but she loved me, and she thought it was funny and continued to hire me and use me.

But every night I'd go out in front of, they go, the lights would go down and go, ladies and gentlemen, an evening at Diana Ross, and the crowd would go crazy, and if you listen really closely, you can hear, and now her opening act, Howie Mandel. And I would walk out there and just to hatred,

and they couldn't wait. Nobody was there to see me, to see comedy, to see anything. Right. They wanted the music of Diana Ross. Okay, speaking of did you ever think of quitting? Did that kind of thing ever make you think? Screw this. They don't even want me here. I mean, maybe I kind of need the money of the opening act or maybe I like the attention. But at some point, weren't you just like, this is BS. Everyone's calling. I'm opening for people and nobody wants to see me. That would drive me crazy. It did. So this was in Las Vegas at Caesar's Palace. I would lock. myself in my room for fear of making eye contact with anybody downstairs in the casino or the restaurants that were at the show the night before. Yeah. And I did want to quit. But, you know,

as luck would have it, number one, my wife was always there with me going, listen, they didn't know, they didn't come to see you. That was hysterical. So she would buoy me up, you know, as far as feeling better about what I had done. But I wasn't being accepted. And then I would always get right when I thought, this is terrible, then I'd get a call. And they'd say, you know, the next call was Alan Thick is coming to town to do Thick of the night, you know, and he signed me to a contract. I was on the Thick of the night when Alan Thick came to town because I had done his show in Canada. You know, so there was always something just as I was getting pulled out to sea and, you know, like just going to drown, somebody else would catch me and that it would be something else.

There was always something attached. You're talking about kind of resilience and also getting maybe a little bit lucky with getting the gigs, but also a lot of this is resilience or grit or maybe just not knowing when to quit. And I wonder if you see some of that unstoppable spirit with the contestants on America's Got Talent. That's what I'll tell the contestants on America's Got Talent. You know, I believe everybody in life is doing what they're. need to do. Not what they want to do, what they need to do. You know, when it becomes too much rejection, too scary, too much, that's the level we rise to. You know, if you want to go get a job

and you want, and there's nothing wrong with this. I think it's equal. There's no difference to anybody in life, you know, nobody is better than anybody else. Nobody is more important than anybody else, we find out we all, it's a level, we come off of a level playing field and we end up being buried in a level playing field. It's not, there is no difference. But the, but the point is that it's not even persistence. It's just the wherewithal to just go on. Maybe somebody's rejected once and quits. Somebody's rejected a hundred times and never quits. The fact that I'm still doing it, I'm just doing it because I say, okay. You know, I used the Nike saying all the time, just do it. 90% of making it, somebody smarter than me said, was just showing up. And, you know,

here we are, season 14 of America's got talent. What's the difference? You know, you think you got all the talent? No, people keep showing up. People just, they overthink it, they don't show up. I'm not right for this show. Let other people decide. And if you could just show up and keep doing it and keep pursuing it, you know, the people that get further in the same field that you're in are just the people that didn't stop. The reason you're not further, you stopped. You're in control of absolutely everything. That's empowering in a lot of ways. But knowing that, and I keep saying it, I don't have that kind of power personally. These are the philosophies that drive me each and every day, that I can get through this, that I can win this battle, that when I'm dealing with OCD, I need to take my medication. I need to

call the therapist right now because I can't even function and get through that. I need to show up one more day and get through that and there are bad days, even in the best case. You can go to a party and have the worst time you've ever had or something shitty can happen at the party. It doesn't mean you shouldn't show up. You need to constantly show up. And that's what I'll do. As long as I'm, you know, healthy and able to show up, if you ask me to show up someplace,

I always say yes. I will always say yes because I don't know what it brings. I know what no brings. No brings nothing. Nothing. You say you don't always have the power, but you do seem unstoppable. I mean, in the book, you talk about getting essentially, I guess you got the flu or something, and you had to go on the Tonight Show and you were just like, I'm doing it.

I'm going to Joan Rivers anyway. Right. So Joan Rivers is a big part of my career because when I was starting out doing the Johnny Carson show was the biggest litmus test for making it. And I got turned down for Johnny Carson multiple times. I was told by the Booker that I was not. right for the show. Johnny would hate me. That's what he told me. He said you'll never, not only did this audition not go well. They came and saw me at the comedy store. They came and saw

me at the improv. But you are not the cup of tea that we look for on the tonight show. As it happened, you know, at that time, and this is decades and decades ago, Joan Rivers became this stand in to fill in guest host. And her ratings were as big if not bigger than Johnny. She was, that was at the top of her game. And she used to come into the comedy store to work out her monologues. So I heard she was coming in. And I said, you know, I get nothing to lose. Let her see me. I've been told, let her see me. Because she pulls weight, she's big. I just want her to see me. Because I had a booking person coming in and telling me Johnny would hate me. You know, these people that cast and look and give you jobs are really just employees and they're second-guessing their boss.

People who give you notes on things are second-guessing their boss. It may not be the way. So I said, if I could just get on stage in front of Joan, maybe she'll like me. And if nothing else, you know, another person who has some power in this business saw me. And that was my thought. And Mitsy Shore, who ran the comedy store, was nice enough to book. a spot for me right before Joan was going to come on and do her monologue and write her and work on her monologue.

And that day, I woke up with a fever and with the flu. And if you've ever had the flu or the fever, there wasn't an inch of me that didn't hurt. Like I had aching all over my body and I had chills all over my body. I was so sick. And I go, what are the chances on this one day that I'm going to play in front of Joan? And I just said, listen, if it kills me. You know, I got the flu.

It's not a terrible thing. I'm going to get in the car. I'm going to try to do a set. They don't want me anyhow, the Tonight Show. So it can't be any worse than that. So I made my way to their comedy store, and Joan Rivers comes in, and I don't feel good. And right before Joan Rivers is going to go on,

they introduce, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel, I get on. And I guess the adrenaline took over, and I didn't feel sick. And I crushed it. And that audience was really, roaring and I got off stage and as I going on they go now ladies and gentlemen the special guest Joan Rivers and she passes me and as she passes me she goes that was very funny and

like that lifted me into the clouds yeah so she goes on and does her set and I said I'm going to wait for her to come off because maybe you know we'll make some eye contact and I don't know what's going to come up it but it's an opportunity sure this is the thing I just look for opportunities I don't look for jobs I don't look for handouts I don't look for favors every time someone somebody asks you to show up and do that when you called and said do this podcast, it's an opportunity. And I'm sure there's people listening to me right now that have never bought a ticket to a Howie Mandel show that may have never even turned on America's Got Talent, that don't know what

deal or no deal is, and I've never seen the Instagram site, you know, animals doing things. It just opens me up to a new audience. And even if that new audience is four new people that never heard me, they're now hearing me. I don't know what that does for me, but I don't know what it doesn't do for it. Sure. So that's, it's an opportunity. So I sat there and I'm waiting for it and then the adrenaline wore off. Sure. And I started getting sicker and sicker than I was before because now I sweat. And I couldn't stand and I'm sinking down the wall and I'm sitting on the steps going out at the sunset boulevard. I thought I was going to pass that. I was going to lose consciousness. And she stayed in that room after she got off for over an hour. But I waited and she was coming down the stairs and she made contact. I'm lying on the stairs. Like a sick. Like a rag. a sweaty, sick rag.

And she goes, you were very funny. And I go, thank you. And she goes, have you ever been on the Tonight Show? I go, it's my birthday this week. She goes, well, give this guy a call. And it was Billy Samoth, her manager. Wow. And she put me on that week.

And I did the Tonight Show with Joan Rivers that week. Four days later, I get a call from the guy who said, you'll never be on the show. Johnny saw me on with Joan Rivers and wanted me on two weeks later. And then I ended up doing 22 episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. So that gatekeeper, whoever that was, he was wrong. You was. And you had to get around him. So you did. And then when you did, you're right. You're right. Wow. And by the same token, I say the same thing to people who come on

AGT. You come on AGT. Even if you get four Xs, even if you get four Xs and we go there's there, somebody out there may have seen you and you might be perfect for this movie they're thinking you know what I mean? You don't know what it is. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. You don't know where your eggs are, but you can't line them up. You have eggs all over the place. And as long as there's eyeballs seeing you and you're not in control, as long as you take those opportunities, as long as you're out there, as long as you walk through the door, you're always going to end up someplace else. But if you lock yourself in your room, you're going no place. Something that mystified me when I was doing the show prep was you started selling carpet,

before comedy, obviously. So I can always go back. You could always go back, yeah. But you're colorblind, too. Yeah. So I guess a colorblind carpet salesman explains a lot of carpet choices and buildings that I've gone into in the past, but I don't understand how did that not affect your performance on the job a little bit, not being able to see the color of the carpet that you were selling? It probably affected the look of many homes, but the truth of the matter is I didn't think. Again, so I got thrown out of school. I was asked to leave school, and I worked at, got a job because I had to get a job right away. in a warehouse, a carpet warehouse.

And I saw the people coming in, the wholesalers coming in with their samples and talking to the salesmen. And I said, I could do that. I don't need to drive a forklift truck. I could do that. I could sell somebody. No thought to the fact that I have to know colors.

Like I came to that when somebody said, the first time somebody said, what color do you think would go with this? And that's when I realized, oh, I'm not going to say I'm colorblind. So I just said this. Are you like red green color blind or fully? Okay.

No, red green. But I still don't know how to put things together. They would say what color is this and I would read the back. This is Azure C's. Which is like blue. Probably. I don't know. But they might say, well, blue?

Yeah. If that's how you see it, it's different depending on the lighting in your house. Sure. Depending on the, but I think this would be per. Do you see a color here that you would like because it's your house and how you're saying. We all see colors different. You know, I didn't think about it. So that's where I say that impulse over thought.

Because if I think about it, if I thought, I'm going to go, maybe the carpet business is good. Wait a minute. I'm colorblind. Let me think of something else. I would have stopped it. And I ended up doing really good in the carpet business because I didn't think about it. I could sell anybody. And I realize that what I do in the carpet business is exactly what I do today.

Is exactly what anybody does. You know, ultimately, just selling. Just selling yourself. If people want to do business with you, they'll buy carpet. carpet from you, they'll come see your comedy show, they'll watch you on TV, they'll listen to your podcast. It's all the same. I know that, uh, I love the idea that it's selling, actually. That, that makes a lot of sense and that resonates really well with a lot of what you said before. You opened up the carpet shop and you mentioned that you talked to a lot of the indigent,

homeless people, drug addicts and things like that. What did you learn from all that? Did that do anything for your comedy? Did that inform your performance at all? No, I'm fascinated. Everyone is different than you and me. Yeah. Everyone. but the more different, the more character, the more the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the more obtuse, the experience, the more, you know, my wife, if she does get mad at me, she goes, you have to talk to everybody. I am so fascinated. People say, why do you still do a hundred dates a year?

Because I want to be, I don't want to be in L.A. in New York. If I'm making television or I'm on television or hopefully watched by millions of people, I want to be in front of people that are not experiencing what I'm experiencing. in this little bubble. I want to meet real people. Somebody looks kind of different or there's a different experience. I want to go up and say, hey, what's your name? Where are you from? And I do. I talk to strangers in the street. I'll talk to, I'll talk and ask anybody. My wife gets mad at me because I ask questions of strangers. I'm so curious. Curiosity is my fuel, you know, and I'm so curious about it. But I get answers, and then I get involved, and then it gets emotional, and then it becomes an evening.

Then it's, you know, my wife and I and, you know, a homeless person having dinner. Really? Yeah. Wow. I'm surprised. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Actually, I'm not surprised at all. I don't know why that was my reaction.

You went from surprise to not really surprised. No, no, makes sense. It totally checks out. It reminds me of the fact that when you were on your, and I'm putting this in air quotes, honeymoon, you basically just took your wife to the comedy club. and did like, well, we didn't have any money, and her honeymoon was sitting on a stool beside me on stage. She was on stage? Oh, yeah, and I would tell the audience, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Howie Mandel's honeymoon. This is my lovely bride, and then she was sitting on stage beside me in a little

comedy club in Toronto at Yuck Yucke's. And we shared that together. But it's kind of funny and kooky and different, and it's what we can afford. And, you know, every day since I've been married, has been, I mean, It sounds kind of corny, but it is a honeymoon. I have somebody to share it with. This is a weird and wacky world. I live in a weird and wacky world. I really do. What I do for a living doesn't even seem like a job.

What I do for a living, I mean, it's not even for a living. What I do, every moment seems like, you know, I'm sitting here talking, you're a stranger. I don't know you. I'm sitting here talking about myself to you and a bunch of other strangers. And future you, yeah. And the future, I'm listening to myself. This is, isn't this, I'm using the wrong term, but isn't this, you've been doing it for 13 years, but it's weird. It is weird, yeah.

I mean, like, it's not the norm. Right. And in most settings, I would ask you these things, when they're not cameras and microphones, and you'd be like, why would I answer that? Why would you ask me? No, but maybe not you, but somebody else. But my setting, I'll do this. I'm happy to talk to anybody, any time, whether it's being recorded or not. I'm fascinated by humanity.

I'm fascinated by somebody who has a different experience than me. I'm fascinated. I'm just curious, crazy curious. That explains a little bit of the crowd work. I said before I watched your comedy special, and you're really good at crowdwork. And it seems like a risky thing to do because, well, I assume you're off script.

I don't know. Maybe there's some scripted stuff inside crowdwork that I don't really understand. Well, we were talking about this before we went on the air. You know, first of all, after 40 years of being in this business, I have a plethora of material that can be planned, and I look to be taken off of that beaten path. But we talked about even at the same time, and you're doing it right now.

You're having a conversation with me, but at the same time, maybe people who are not watching this and just listening to this, you have a laptop in front of you. Yeah, it's an eye. So you have to be, that's what I'm saying. So you have to be,

you have to listen to my answer so that you're cognizant of what we're saying, and we can carry on a fluid discussion. But at the same time, you have to be, you have to look at what's next. and where are we going to, or did we already talk about this? Is this part of the plan?

And I'm checking it off and it's gone. Howie mentioned it, and I didn't even ask it. So you're doing things at the same, and by the same token, who's ever listening to this, might be listening to this and maybe enjoying a moment of this, but at the same time, you're signaling and because you can make sure that you're turning left or you're following ways and you're getting to work, we all do things on different levels at the same time. So while I'm doing my act, if I notice something in my periphery, you know, Somebody's not reacting to people are talking.

Somebody looks like they shouldn't be there. It's a kid. I'm not beyond to just stop in a second. And I'll get back on track and go, wait a minute. What are you doing? What was that sound? What did you just yell out? Hey, what's your name?

You know, I love to be taken off that path, and it sends me down a new, fresh. And after all these years, I've become, my ability to multitask has become a lot easier for me. Or I'm not so worried about it. And again, it's not thinking about it because you could think, I wrote an act, I'm doing my act, don't disturb me. Well, these are just humans that are sitting there. Things happen. They get up, they have to go to the bathroom.

They might make a noise. They might sneeze. There might be a kid in the front row that shouldn't be in the front row. Oh, yeah. You know, all these things. And I learned it, I've learned it the hard way. You know, I've told this story before about playing a big theater and killing it, killing it, the people are roaring and laughing.

And I look to my left as I'm looking down on the, in front of the audience, there's somebody sitting there that's not making any eye contact with me and not even smiling. And every comic will tell you that it becomes about that person. You have 7,000 people going crazy

and you have one person for some reason has a stick up there at. And it became about that. And I stopped, you know, the flow of getting people, like once you get them there, it's like a ferry, it's like they're on a wheel. It's snowballs. Once you get them laughing and there's no break,

you could just keep adding and adding and adding and talking and you just get this way, but as a neurotic comic, you focus on the one person that doesn't see. Negativity bias, man. Yeah, but that's it. So then I remember stopping right in the middle and going, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you with the blue shirt. I seem to be doing well.

You're not looking at me. You're not reacting to me. What is wrong? You're sitting right up front and center. What is wrong? And the lady beside him goes, he's blind. Oh, man. You see, you said, oh, man.

And I said, and I repeated, because that's what happens. I just, I went, he's blind. And now the whole audience, you could hear the wind leave the room. You know, everybody's heart just drops and you go, and I go, where to hell do I go from here? I was just crushing it. Like an idiot, I had to look at this one person that nobody else saw. He was front row. So there wasn't even anybody around to see that.

I could have just sailed through. What the fuck did I just do? Why did I point this out? And he's blind. And I repeated, he's blind. And then the first thing that popped into my mind, and that's why I throw caution in the wind, the way I make decisions, because I'll just say what comes to me without thinking. And had I thought, I wouldn't have said this, but I just went, can I ask one question? What the hell?

Why? Why? Why would you spend money for a front row seat for a blind person? What are you wasting money? It's a front row. It's blind. It's so much cheaper in the balcony. And you could tell him he's in the front seat.

What the hell are you doing? And luckily, I got the audience back, and they were roaring, and it was so awkward and so uncomfortable that we all kind of joined in that moment together. And to this day, I'll have people that walk up to me and go, I was there the day, the blind, remember the blind guy in the front? You know, but that's a moment that turned out to be great. It went from horror to great. So I'm comfortable with, you know, delving over that first big hill on the rollercold.

poster of performing. I can see everyone just feeling really bad for both you and him in that particular moment and then they want like everyone wanted you to rescue that one. They did. And the thing is that there's a lot of people in my business that probably would have skimmed over it in this and just tried to gather themselves. But I also felt, and this is the same philosophy I have from the beginning of this podcast when you want to talk about my OCD, I think you've got to share. I think the more you share, the more you engage. So when that person told you, me, they were blind. I went, oh my God, I am so sorry. This just threw me. I'll be honest with you. I am so uncomfortable. I just ruined my whole show. How do I turn this into funny? And I shared that

out loud. And that's the audience enjoyed this journey too and kind of related to that journey. Nobody else in the audience, I don't think, was a stand-up comic or had been in that situation. But they were all, all of us as humans were taking that ride together. And that's the journey. Everybody on the roller coaster is screaming. There's a hundred, people going, but we're all together in this. Yeah. And that's the feeling, that's what I feel about life. What do you think you'd be doing now if you didn't end up in showbiz or comedy?

Selling. Oh, selling. I'd be talking to you about shag. Shag? Carpet. Carpet, yeah. I thought you said shack and I thought, what? No.

And I didn't mean Shack. Yes, by shack. Shack carpet. This has been amazing. I'm really, I'm really, really glad that we were able to make this happen. And I really thank you for your expertise, time, and sense of humor. And just for everything you've done over the years, it's been awesome. So this is a goodbye?

I guess so, yeah. What an awkward way to end the podcast. Really? Why? Is it that bad? Well, I'm going to be totally honest with you. I was just in the middle of some of the things that I had to say. Like, I just felt like this is the halfway point and now it's going to get good.

And now I'm going to take out. No, I really, I just got comfortable. And I was just about to open up like I've never opened up before. But fine. Next time. No, no, no, that's it. You had your office. opportunity. Bye. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And download this special, watch Animals

Doing Things. Deal or no deal on CNBC on the 12th. Animals Doing Things, NatGeo on the 15th, season 14 of AGT. And I wish I got a chance to open up. Yeah. So, you know, I've only been doing this for 13 years. Maybe in a couple more decades, I'll be able to get down to business a little faster. That's so much to say. It's okay. I guess just fade to black now, maybe. Isn't this audio? Yeah, it is. What's the fade to be?

Fade to silent? It's fade to silent. Yeah. Fade to silent. I'll just do it by myself. Yeah. Jason, I got to say I was a little bummed that you weren't there for this one because his office is just, if you and I had an unlimited budget for a ridiculously cool man cave, it would be this place. Yeah, I was really bummed.

I couldn't make it to that one, too. I've been a huge fan of Howie for basically my entire. entire life. So it was it was kind of sad that I couldn't make it out for that one. But I've seen the pictures and man, it's a very cool place. We definitely need to get one of those one of these days. Well, I mean, we got to, we got to go back there because he's got like a deal or no deal slot machines, deal or no deal arcade games. He's got all this different paraphernalia from like, here's when he was on Johnny Carson. Here's what, and he would just take stuff. And there's a set of cue cards that say coming up Robin Williams and someone else. And it says, do not take this

card. And he's like, yeah, but it was the final show. of Johnny Carson. So I figured what the hell. It's not like he's going to need it. So he took that. He's got a huge fish tank with like eels and a blowfish in it and all these murals painted.

And I said, do you, who's cookie? Who's this artist? And he goes, what I do is when I travel, if I see art that I like, I find out who made it. And then I fly him out here and have him make something in the office. Oh, how cool is that?

Right? Like imagine you're just hanging out and you're like, oh, look at this Banksy or Shepard Ferry piece or whoever. And you're like, hey, let me just fly you out here and do it. Because I think at this point, growing up the way that he did and having a really long career

where he wasn't banking the whole time, you know, he's, he did well and then there was a lull that could have easily been 20 plus years long. And now he's probably made like nine figures doing deal or no deal and America's got talent. Who knows? So he realizes, look, I'm in my 60s. I want to enjoy stuff. And he's got kids.

And he's the nice. person, man. I'm telling you, there were so many things in my notes that I didn't have time to go through. And he's got so many freaking funny stories that he has in his book, which I recommend reading if you like Howie Mandel. It's a little older, but it's, it is so funny. We hung out for a while in the office afterwards watching America's Got Talent highlights. He was just like, hey, did you see the Golden Buzzer from yesterday? We're like, no, we were prepping for this. And he's like, oh, come over here. And he puts it on the TV and we just sat down and watched some AGT highlights that he wanted us to see. Oh, man, that would be so much fun. Imagine you're sitting there with the judge,

you're sitting there with the judge of the show going, what was it about this that you liked the most? Or why didn't you like that? And he's just sitting there narrating it to us. And he hung out prior to the show and he helped us set everything up, not like tripods, but he was like moving tables and everything. And he was yelling at us in a funny way. And it's just such a fun experience to go into his place and do the interview right there on top of the logo that he used in his stand-up special we just have the table planted on that sort of outline of his face and the background if you're watching us on youtube is a hot air balloon where it's a hot air balloon what are those things called jason where you stick your head through the flat the flat picture and you're the guy in the cartoon or you're like

the spartan yeah yeah i know you're like like at the circus where you put your head through and you can take a picture with it right Like you stick your head through there and you're Mickey Mouse, that kind of thing. So he has a Howie Mandel thing, and that was the background of the video. It's him in a hot air balloon, and then he shoved a pillow with his face on it. By the way, he has a lot of pillows with his face on it. Okay, that's random. It is, but they're from different eras of his life.

So he has one from probably like 1978, full head of hair, curly, like, Jewish hair, fro. And then there's more modern ones where he's got the head shaved, and then there's ones where it's clearly, like, made this year or so where he looks exactly like he does and Jen goes if we've taken anything away from this it's that you need more pillows with your face on it at home okay maybe I said that but still it it was definitely one of the takeaways from the show and we talked about show hosting as well we touched on it during the show but one thing we discussed was he knows when the energy of the show is going down a little so he teases something else and I asked him if he did that and he goes you know you're the only person that's ever really noticed that. I said, I think everybody notices it.

It's just that not everybody's thinking about it. So, you know, if you and I are hosting a show, you'll say to me, or I'll just naturally go and say something or interrupt or make a joke because the story is droning on or it's like the energy, the vibe is just kind of crashing. He feels that on deal or no deal or even AGT and he'll just ramp up the energy and then let it sort of slide back down the hill and then ramp up the energy and let it slide back down the hill. That's his job as a host, and I thought that was really interesting, a little bit of meta there. It's like how I use the iPad and I listen and I plan the next bit of conversation at the same time. And if you're watching me on YouTube and a lot of people have asked me this, they're like, what are you doing on the iPad?

Because you don't have these awkward pauses in conversation. And I'm like, yeah, I'm tracking like 17 things at once. So there's a lot going on that we make look second nature or effortless, but he knows his practice because he does the same thing. And he was talking about Howard Stern and him doing that. I just thought this is like the most interesting interview on so many levels that we have done. And so I hope you all enjoyed that conversation as well. I certainly did. And I can't wait to do round two so I can actually come over and check the place out.

And I want some Johnny Carson stories because I grew up with Johnny Carson and I saw him on Johnny Carson a lot. So I want to get some behind the scene scoop on that. And I loved the Joan Rivers story. That was so cool. Talk about a trooper, like almost half dead. got the flu like you know bangs it out does his set and then gets on the show that is that's how you do it man that's really how you do it right like the the level of hustle where he's going look i probably am not going to get too many opportunities like this and this is my life so i'm doing this he just

never let anything get in the way and i think he's still like that and and part of it is just him being a hard worker but the other part is i think he realized at some point this is my shot right he was selling carpet, he dropped out of high school. This was his shot. And you don't go, we have the flu. You would have to be in the hospital in a medically induced coma to not make it for something like that. And so he went after it. And what did he have to lose? You know, the Tonight Show guys already said no. So why not, you know, going through the side door, find another avenue, work it up. Exactly. Exactly. So it was inspiring for that reason as well. And I love this episode. Like I said, I just had a great time.

And he said yes right away. This is one of those funny interviews where I had the right introduction from Adam Carolla. That didn't hurt. And he just thought, sure, why the hell not? And here we, and boom. And I thought, for real? I was waiting for him to cancel because he had to go to do some thing on a private jet. Until we were sitting there, I was like, this might not happen.

Don't get disappointed. If you want to know how we get those introductions, it's not just pure luck. and it's not just knowing a bunch of people throughout the years in some sort of haphazard way. I've got a very specific structure and I'm teaching you how to do this for free at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And I know you're thinking, oh, I don't need this

or I don't really want to do that or I'll do it later. Don't kick the can down the road. You've got to dig the well before you're thirsty. The drills take a few minutes per day. It's all just small habits. It's not a bunch of stuff you got to do. And it's all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And by the way, most of the guests on the show

actually subscribe to the course and the newsletter. So come join us. You'll be in good company. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Howie Mandel. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube and Howie is quite animated and fun, and that's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. Jason, when does Deal or No Deal start? Deal or No Deal premieres on CNBC Wednesday, June 12th. So definitely go check that out. This show is produced in association with Podcast One, and this episode was co-produced

by Jason Don't Touch Me, DePhilippo, and Jen Harbinger. Show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty, and I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you... This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know Podcast.

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