The Jordan Harbinger Show - 249: Kobe Bryant | Dissecting the Mamba Mentality

Episode Date: September 10, 2019

Kobe Bryant (@kobebryant) is most known for his 20 years on the basketball court as one of the game's most iconic legends. He now focuses his famous tenacity on running Granity Studios, an award-winning multimedia company devoted to creating new ways to tell stories around sports -- like Legacy and the Queen with Annie Matthew. What We Discuss with Kobe Bryant: What creativity and basketball have in common and what Kobe has carried from the court to his new business. Lessons Kobe has learned from people who are the best at what they do — from Taylor Swift to Jony Ive to Sean Penn to Kate Winslet to Larry Moss to Oprah to George R.R. Martin. How Kobe manages pressure in high stakes situations on the court and at the head of a creative content studio. The music that gets Kobe in the mindset he needs to excel at whatever he does. The importance of learning how to negotiate with yourself in order to achieve greatness, and how parents might help their kids develop this crucial skill. And much more… Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://jordanharbinger.com/249 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with producer Jason DeFilippo. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant and interesting people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Today's guest is a man of epic proportions, literally.

He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He spent 20 years on the Los Angeles Lakers and is an 18-time. All-Star. The Black Mamba Kobe Bryant is on the show today, everybody. Today, what creativity and basketball have in common and what Kobe's carried from the court into his new businesses, how Kobe manages pressure and high-stakes situations. We'll also talk about his new books and creative endeavors, and you're going to see in the YouTube clips, if you're watching us here on YouTube, or if you go to that channel after you've heard the interview here, by the way, that's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm holding and talking about his books. There's really something

special go on here. We talked basketball and how he studies and models other people, especially actors and actresses, to gain an edge. In fact, you'll be very surprised at who Kobe draws inspiration from. We also discuss raising hardworking kids and instilling values as a parent. There's a whole lot going on in this episode. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed recording it. And of course, if you're wondering, how the hell did you get Kobe Bryant? It's always a matter of introductions through my network. And I'm teaching you how to create networking connections for personal or professional reasons. That's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course.

And that course is, of course, free. Not enter your credit card number free, just free, free. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And in the meantime, here's Kobe Bryant. You don't tie the shoes? Ever since I was a kid, I used to do this thing where I don't tie my sneakers. But then when it comes time for game time, I lace them up. It's like my gladiator.

Digging the dirt type of moment. Yeah. But now it just feels good on my feet. Yeah. Keep it loose or whatever. Yeah. I definitely appreciate that. Now, my friend says she sees you at Disneyland all the time.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. So I was thinking, all right, you're pivoting from basketball to this creative pursuit with the book and the writing and the punies. Disneyland Pride dovetails with that creativity a little bit. For sure. Yeah. So it seems like storytelling something you're working hard at.

I know you got into writing in high school. Yeah. It seems strange because obviously it has nothing to do with basketball, animation basketball, have no overlap. Is this something that was kind of brewing the whole time? think so. You know, it's funny, the disciplines are completely different, but like the structure of it is the same in terms of the process of, like the process of writing or crafting a story or a novel or a film. There's the same process in the summertime of how you craft the game,

right, and how you build your things, your game from day to day. It's the same thing. It's the same kind of blueprint, although you're building two completely different homes. Why is this stuff important to you at this stage in your life? You know, you could do nothing, which I assume is not an option for you. But you could also just kind of chill and let other people do all the creative work. Like you seem to not be a backseat type of guy. No, I enjoy it though.

I enjoy process of creation. It's no different than basketball. I enjoy playing. And I got very lucky in the sense of when I stepped away from the game of basketball, I found something that I loved equally. So that's why. Nice.

All right. Well, you started off. I know with a ton of pressure, expectations put on you to be like the next Michael George. Jordan straight out of high school. And I'm sure people ask you how you manage that pressure. But I think probably if I had to guess you put most of the pressure on yourself, it wasn't necessarily from the outside. Yeah, you know, like I had goals. I had expectations and things I wanted to accomplish, you know. And so like the outside world could not meet that for sure. I knew I

wanted to win five, six, seven championships. That was my goal. For me to come out and say that, people would think I was a lunatic. Yeah. You know, so no matter what they said or what they threw at me, my expectations were certainly. hire. Why continually do that? It seems obvious to probably to you and somebody like me who constantly like, I wouldn't say necessarily beat myself up, but is constantly re-igniting the fire under my own ass, if you will. It seems a little bit masochistic to keep doing that. A little bit, yeah, for sure. But you can't control that passion, man. Sometimes you just kind of have a fire. You need to keep those flames burning. There's nothing you can do about it. Like you don't really have much of a choice.

Like you wake up in the morning and you go. Even if you tried to dial it back, it'll just build up and build up. And then it'll just come out 10 times worse than it was before. Did you ever try to do that? Like when you were younger, how do you know that it comes out 10 times worse? I mean, it sounds like that happened at some point. Yeah, like, you know, when you go on vacations, you're going on vacations. You say, you know, I'm going to take my mind off of it.

I'm not going to think about it. And you can do that for a couple days, three days, you know what I mean? Something like that. But then when you get back to it, all of a sudden, it's like things just pour out of you. Your show on ESPN, it's actually called detail. And my friend goes, you got to watch this. Kobe breaks things down into my new detail. I was like, okay, I expect you to be like,

he's going to run up here and he's going to, I mean, I don't know. Obviously, I don't know as much about basketball or anywhere close as you do. But it was like, see, if he takes a step laterally, if he take a step 45 degrees this way, and I'm like, okay, this is a level of detail that nobody really looks at for business, for any game. And I wonder if you take your business now and you look at it. at, all right, this is the level of detail I need in my creative endeavor. Because I looked in there for a second. I didn't go in, but there's a lot of post-it notes on that wall, a lot.

Yeah. Well, we try to handle things with great care. When you handle things with great care, you have no choice but to look at every single detail. You know, in the books that we create, and the films that we create, we look over every scene, comb through every line. You know, we go through everything, the book, even looking at this book here, you look on the back here. This is a barcode. Oh, yeah. Right. But instead of just slay, slapping a barcode on the book, you got to make sure that it comes from the world. So how can you design a barcode that's effective and efficient, but still designed to fit the part of the world? So going through every single detail is the same thing.

Otherwise, you look at the book, right? It breaks the whole, like, this is like magical. Yeah, you don't want to break the magic. The same thing I do in basketball is the same thing we do here. You got to obsess over every little thing. Because by law, you've got to have probably the price, the ISBF, the barcode, but nobody says it has to be ugly, be on a sticker. Just slap it on there and then off you go. No, no, no, no.

We want to make sure we go through everything. There's even, I know people who are watching this can't really tell, but this is like astro-turve, golf. Prestige material. Yeah, prestige material. Like you can feel there's a tactile thing. So as soon as the kid or the adult like me or the grown-up kid picks this thing up, like you feel, you thought about this. That's exactly right. And that's really important too because when parents pick up a book and try to decide what book they want to buy for their children.

Or when a kid picks up a book, we want them to have the experience. of somebody put a lot of thought and care into it. Generally in the children's space, children's book space, you kind of just make books and you just, you know, as cheaply as you can make and you turn them out. But the message we want to come across, we want to get across, is that kids matter. Investing heavily in kids is extremely important. In fact, more important it is investing in adults because children are our future. So instead of spending all of our resources and doubling down on the grownups, let's double down on kids. Did you think about this stuff before you had kids or was this like, I just, like, I just,

I always had a kid same ages, I think Capri, or daughter, maybe a little younger, like six weeks right now. Thank you. It's an amazing feeling. And everyone goes, it's going to turn your world upside down. I don't know about you, but I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And then you go, whoa, wait a minute. Drive slowly.

Right? Yeah, it alters things. Like, you know, Natalia, our eldest is now 16. And it certainly changes things. So, like, creating these stories was really for them because they're, you know, our daughters or are athletes. And trying to find stories for them, characters, first of all, that look like them is close to impossible.

And then secondly, finding. characters that look like them, but are also athletic. Right. And when you say look like them, like, let's not sugarcoat it. You mean African-American women. Yeah, my kids are mixed. So my wife's Latina. I'm obviously African-American. And so, you know, the finding mixed characters is like, needle in the haystack. And then when you try to half-Asian, okay, so good luck finding characters that have that, right? So, and then on top of that, they're athletes. So where are these stories for children that center around athletes, you know, biracial children.

That also intertwined the entertaining fun part of it all, which is like magic and fantasy and mystery. It is tough. I do think about that because I obviously grew up like pretty generic white dude in the suburbs. There was one Asian kid in my school, one African American kid at my school, and they stuck out. Everyone liked them and it was like a special thing. Sure.

But yeah, there weren't a whole lot of movies with like heroes that look like them, characters that looked like them, that weren't just stereotypes. types. And that's not really good for you growing up. My son, he's half Taiwan, he's Chinese, so he looks like an old Asian man because he's like six weeks old and all that's awesome. But like, yeah, there's not a whole lot that's going to look like him. It's going to be like, he can look at Jet Li and be like kind of like that, but also kind of like nobody else. Yeah, and it's important, you know, from my daughter's perspective, right, of being the only African-American or mixed kid in school. And what does that feel like? If you're not the only one,

this is maybe two more. On the flip side of that as well, is that the other children, the majority of the children in the school, aren't getting an opportunity to understand different cultural backgrounds either. Right? And so there's kind of an understanding that takes place or a lack of understanding that takes place on both sides of that equation, which is why it's very important to be able to have diverse characters. So this way, we can all kind of better understand each other. Can you check the levels, by the way? Because he's a little quieter than I expected. You're quieter than I expected. What can I say? Not a loud guy. No. I can't not direct and do that. It's all good.

I feel like you probably have that same thing. I do. I try not to micromanage, but I'm also like, I know, though. It's easier for me. Like, and basketball is a little different. Here, it's, it's easier for me, because I have great people that know what the hell they're doing. Like, I didn't go to film school. You know what I mean? So there's certain things I don't know. Like, I don't know production schedules or SAG rules or, you know, stuff. I don't know that stuff, but I have people that do. And, you know, you trust them to do the best that they can with lighting and things of that nature. Are you doing a lot of the outside of the box thinking? Who came up with the barcode idea?

That was one of our creatives in here that came up with that idea. My direction is always do not break the magic. We don't compromise that. Do not break the magic. Everything comes from this world. Everything has purpose. And everything must be to the best of your ability. So my job is really to make sure that when you work here,

you're tasked with challenging yourself to do the best job you can. And that means you have to be honest and be brave about it. You've got to be able to look in the mirror and say, I can do better. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. And to learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard from our amazing sponsors, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

Don't forget, we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways. That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to Georgia. and Harbinger.com slash subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all of the latest episodes downloaded automatically to your podcast player

so you don't miss a single thing. It's got to be tough working for somebody like you who wants every percent out of everything, but also go, ooh, I've got to tell them that this is the wrong decision. So you have to build trust with your team so that they can look you in the face and go, you know what, I'd see where your head's at,

but that is a bad idea. You know what, though? They generally get it, though. If you're new and you're working here, you come into a meeting, you have an idea for a creative for a cover, for example, when we sit down and we talk. One thing that I'm a big proponent of is a simple image, a simple, clean image that has a lot of layers to it, which is easier said than done. Right, but that's a mandate. Okay, now I understand as a company, this is what you're looking for. And then they go off and they create.

It just takes, you know, maybe a week or two just to kind of get used to the style of how we do things. But by and large, the people that we have here are all obsessives. I don't have to say needle over every detail until it's right. Like, that's already in them. Yeah. Like so when they come here, they're like, oh, thank God, I can work in a company that's going to obsess over every single detail. That makes sense.

You hire for that. Absolutely. Yeah. You have to. It's like you picking the whole roster. Yeah. We'd go crazy if it wasn't that way. The challenging part is continuing to find those people.

Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah, it's tough. People love to say, oh, I've read this job description and says you've got to be obsessed with quality and detail. And you're like, I'm that person. But everybody wants to think that that person. Yeah.

But when it gets time like, hey, you've got to work on the weekend because the feeling of the paper on the cover is wrong and you've got to feel 300 other samples. They're like, what? It's a book, man. Chill. I got stuff to do. That's exactly right. Well, why? Yeah.

Why does it matter? It matters because it matters. You know what I mean? Yeah. Fortunately for us, we have people that are like that. And now the challenge becomes, as we grow, continuing to have those standards, never dropping those standards, and going from there. I've heard and seen you break down games, for example, that you've lost in the past. And it seems like you can really detach emotionally.

When I listen to something that I do wrong, depending on how wrong it goes, I can sit there and sort of cold calculate like a surgeon, go through it. But other times, I'm beating myself up. I have not seen you do that. You seem like you have an emotional detachment that's probably pretty healthy when you're trying to. trying to get something fixed. Yeah. It comes from one of our coaches in the past. His name was Tex winner.

We used to watch game film. He was pretty brutal on us as players. Yeah. But he always said, I'm not criticizing the person. I'm criticizing the act. So remove yourself from that. Remove the ego from this process. Just focus on the act.

The goal is to help us all become better. And when you do that, you can remove yourself from that. Now you can look at actions. And then you can truly improve as a basketball player. I can't remember where this was. You mentioned you studied actors to get mindset. It was kind of a throwaway line. But I'm wondering who you studied the most.

Like, who are you watching? You're like, I love that cold-ass shit from whoever in this movie. Hilary Swank and I had a lot of conversations about that, actually. Talk to Kate Winslet about it as well. But we really got into how they build their characters and how they get into character. I've spoken with Larry Moss about that process as well. And there's something to that because, like, as an actor, you are trained to get into that zone, find that pocket.

And as athletes, the psychology is the same. Sean Penn as well, we had a great conversation about it as well. The discipline is different, but the behavior is the same. Before you start a game, how can you lock in and get into that mental space where nothing else matters? You're completely locked in and focused on what you're trying to accomplish as an athlete out here. The noise of the crowd doesn't matter. Whether the cheering or booing doesn't matter, you're just completely locked in. How do you do that?

It seems like they're on set, right? And you're on set, you're on the court, but you have feedback from people you don't necessarily want. If you do something wrong, you've got all these people giving you negative feedback. You have to be able to block that out. They don't really have to do that. Well, you could say being an actor, there's more pressure involved in it because you're dealing with a smaller audience when you're on set. Right. And so the criticism, it's a one-to-one type of thing, right?

Somebody's looking at you in judgment. When you're in a crowd with thousands of people, because of the size of it, it tends to diminish. the pressure. It's like when you're speaking in front of a thousand people, it's less personal. Right. If we go and have a conversation in a bar in front of a bunch of people that are having their own conversations and every once in a while turn around and looking at us

having our own conversation, okay. But now if you walk in and there's two people that are doing nothing but watching and critiquing our conversation, that's a little different. That must actually happen to you in real life all the time now that I think about it. Well, now with camera phones, yeah, I get that a lot, man. People just sit there and just going to do this.

I'm listening. So they sit there, filming you, and, like, I'm just looking at the menu and scratching my face with my phone. Yeah, that's so annoying, by the way. That's so weird. So annoying. Like, at least just be blatant about it. Like, it's not like, I can't see you, like, doing this, you know. What do you do?

You must say something. Or do you just kind of. No, just let it be. But I feel like I couldn't eat if somebody was solving me. I'd be like. Or you can just do, like, the most inappropriate thing ever and get them. Yeah, hit the meat. Kobe gets mustard on his shit.

Yeah. I heard you once actually say you wanted to be the Will Smith. basketball. I don't remember saying that. I must have said it, but I don't remember saying that. I heard it secondhand. I think it was Shaq who said it. Yeah. Maybe he was just playing, but I don't remember saying that. I mean, no, not that that would be a bad thing, but I don't remember saying. I just think it's a funny comment. Because it actually, you could have said pretty much anybody, but it aged decent. I mean, he's doing all right. Yeah, I mean, he's turned out to be one of the best actors of our generation, so it worked out. Yeah. So when you were in the locker room,

you had the Halloween theme song playing on repeat, which aside from being hella creepy, I assume it's a way to get into some sort of alter ego or emotional state. Yeah, that kind of goes back to what we're talking about before, getting in the character. You know, and how do you kind of get your mind frame wrapped around to a place where nothing else matters? You've got to find those songs that can channel that for you. Music for me wasn't just like what's popular now, but it's like music that can take you to an emotional space. Smells like Teen Spirit was one of my favorite ones to listen to because it would take me back to high school. Like if I'm playing in a game, a heavy pressure game, game seven of a playoff series,

I listen to smells like Teen Spirit. Why? Because it took me back to high school where basketball was just fun. And you were playing with friends. And there was all this hype. The media wasn't around. You're just in a gym with like 200 people in the stands in high school watching you play. And that song would take me back to that place.

And then emotionally, that's where I would be when I would perform. Do you still rock songs when you've got to do something really important? Or is it now so on autopilot? Yeah, sometimes yeah, I'll listen to Jay-Z a lot. Okay. Listen to Jay-Z a lot, you know, the new stuff as well as the Reasonable Doubt album. I listen to the Roots. I'll listen to quite a bit when I have a chance to.

Right now it's like so many things that we're turning, like I'm a big lover of music. I was wondering I was like, wouldn't it be funny if he's got like Taylor Swift in his car? I do. Really? I do. I think it's important to listen to people who do great things. So it's not just John Rush specific, but it's like Taylor's been at the top of the game for a very, very long time. how and why. How does she write? How does she get into that mental space to be able to create

things over and over and over and over. I mean, it's a lot of pressure for her to follow up a number one album with a better album. I don't care if you like her music or if you don't like her music. Look at what she's doing. I mean, that's frightening stuff. And it's unbelievable to be able to pull that off over and over and over and over and over. And so I'll look at things like that to try to learn from as much as I can. She's a shark, too. You hear about her standing up to Spotify or all these. Metallica did that in the early, when you and I were probably in like, I don't know, college high school.

That's tough. You didn't think she would be like, no, I'm not going to do it my way. But see, like, from afar, like, I know she has to be that way. You know, she's a sweet kid. I mean, she was a sweetheart to my girls before she even blew up and became Taylor Swift. So that's why, like, if she needs anything for me, I'm always there. But you can't have that level of consistent success and not be a killer. It's impossible.

It's funny to think of Taylor Swift as a killer, but she totally is. 100%. The Mike Myers mask from the Halloween theme song, devoid of emotion. Is that a coincidence or is that something you were... No, no, it's 100% intentional. That's the trick of the game, man. It's like, can you, again, detach yourself from it? Can you remove your emotions from the situation?

Emotions getting away a lot, especially in a competitive situation. Do you find that in business then, too? Yeah, yeah. Business too. Like, you get emotional and start making decisions. You've got to kind of sit back and look at it. for what it is, and is it the right decision to make? Yeah, everybody who lost money on Bitcoin knows what that's like.

Emotions. Yep. You're clearly dedicated to mastery and everything that you do. And I think most people, again, just like people who say they're obsessed with detail, they only pay lip service to that. Like, they say like, I'm obsessed with mastery, but I was looking up Kobe Bryant work ethic stories. It's like a Google search that apparently I'm not the only one who made it.

And there are some trainers that are anonymous online being like, yeah, he texted me, at 4.45 in the morning. Wanted to go work out. I worked out with him. Went back to my hotel room. Went to sleep. Came back in the morning. He was doing some shooting. And I said, oh, what time did you finish? And you were like, just now? And the guy was like, did you show up seven hours early for a scrimmage? And the internet has a million of those. Yeah. I'm wondering if you instill that same level of work ethic in your kids or if you're like, okay, maybe that was a little bit much. Yeah, I do. But you do it by repetition, by just simply the act of of working every day. Like you can't talk your children into working hard. I mean, that's the one

thing that drives me crazy is like, you know, I have parents come up to me on the street or, you know, when I'm at the sports academy and I say, okay, well, how can I get my kid to work hard? What do I need to tell? Can you talk to my kid? I say, listen, it's not something that you can talk through. It's a behavioral thing. You have to get up every day and do the work. Consistently do the work. My kids, volleyball, basketball, schoolwork, they work every day. And that's how you instill it in them where it becomes a behavioral thing. And it doesn't matter what they decide to do. Like if Gianna decides to not play basketball when she grows up, that's fine.

But she understands the discipline that it takes to work at something every single day. So whether she wants to be a writer, a director, a doctor, a lawyer, she'll have those characteristics. Yeah, if you could talk your kids into working hard, I feel like every parent would be very much. Every parent will work hard. Yeah, it's the behavior. And also it's like it's observing. It's seeing you. Like, and it's not just me.

It's my wife, too. Like her commitment to the children and making sure that their own point schedule, school work. Everything is sharp. Everything is there every single day, man. And seeing me get up and train and work hard. And I used to take them with me sometimes too. I used to take them to the gym when I would train and they would do things on the side

where I'd go to the track together and I'd be running around the track and doing this sort of stuff. This way they can see it. Yeah. Did they ever come in here and watch you guys, work? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the example has to be where it's at. A lot of parents are do as I say, not as I do, and we know how that works out. Yeah, that works from time to time, especially if you're driving in the car and you're like, okay, just do as I say, not as I do.

Right. Yeah. But like with work habits, they've got to be able to see that stuff, man. Do you take singular focus with everything you do? I was talking to some of the players that you used to play with, and they were like, we'd invite him to Vegas, didn't want to go. We'd invite him to play golf, didn't want to go. And they're like, it's not that he was antisocial at all. It just wasn't getting him closer to the goal of being the best at basketball ever. And so I'm wondering, is business the same? Is it like, no, I'm not going to do all. You have to say no a lot deliberately. Well, it's different because I just don't have the time. Vanessa and I, we don't have a nanny. You don't have a baby. You don't have a nanny at all? Wow. Never have. So other couples that go out

and invite us to do things, we love to, but we have our kids, you know, so we can't leave them, you know. Then it's the work stuff. Balancing work and family is hard and I'm really committed to work and I don't compromise time with my family. So the time that I'm not working, I'm spending it with them, you know? And so you kind of lose out on some of the social things from time to time, but it's what it is. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back after this. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard so you can check out those amazing sponsors

visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And don't forget the worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at Jordanharbinger.com slash podcast. If you're listening to us in the Overcast Player, please click that little star next to the episode. We really appreciate it. When you went to the NBA, I've heard you say, look, a lot of guys, they're not working that hard.

I mean, that's kind of a legendary thing for you to say about other players, and they didn't have the same passion. And I heard Shaq actually say, even at 18, you wanted to be the best. you found that passion early. And you've said, like, if you're lucky, you find that passion early. But players oftentimes, they lose that passion, right? They're playing for economic stability.

Sure. They show up and they're like, oh, for the first time in my life, I can go to Vegas and ball out and be popular and famous. And I'm going to enjoy that. How do you stay hungry? Because you might have had that situation, too. I mean, you could just as easily have gone down that road, but you didn't. I didn't enjoy it. You didn't enjoy it?

No, I enjoyed playing basketball. Oh, okay. Yeah. When I say that, people take it. tend to have tendency to take that lightly. Yeah. But no, I love the game. I love it.

I didn't want to be away from it. I wanted to play all the time. Like, a lot of guys have fun hanging out in the pool in Vegas, and that's fine. It's a time and place for that, right? But, like, I was 18, 21 years old. I wanted to play basketball. I was consumed with this quest of trying to be the best.

When we weren't there yet, there's so many things I had to figure out. Like, am I training properly? Am I working on the right things on the court? There's so many things to do. I didn't have time to go and hang out over here. What do you do practice-wise? Do you have a ritual or practice that keeps you getting after it?

Or is this just something that's been natural with you for a while? Because, yeah, you love basketball, but do you love creating magic books in the same way? Yeah, it's the same process, the same attention to detail. And the thing about storytelling is crazy. Right now, I put a stop on myself coming up with a new IP. Because we have a lot right now that we need to get out into the market. We've got to focus on doing that right. Because what happens is I'll create a new character, and then I'll say, okay, this is how the character is.

And then I'll say, well, why is a character that way? Well, what's his family? Like, okay, then where did the father come from? Then where did the mother come from? And then, okay, well, where do they live? Now, what are the rules of the world that they live in? And it just takes you down this rabbit hole where you just become all-consuming. It becomes all-consuming.

I love that part, though. So I'm kind of looking forward to diving back in. But that's my process. It's like some Lord of the Ring stuff right there. That's exactly right. And it's like books, like even with this book here, there's so many notes and so many books filled with like Nova, like creating the name itself and like legacy, Sela and then like the rules of the world and the history of the kingdom of Nova when it once was a kingdom. Like all these sort of things that I have that the readers will never know, but it was important for me and Annie to go through. Do you read Lord of the Rings and books like that?

No. No. I don't. I don't. I don't. Like, I've studied them though, which is weird. So I'll read about someone who studied the Lord of the Rings or watch video essays about it and then watch speeches. And then same thing with Game of Thrones.

Those I've read, though. And then... You read Game of Thrones? I have. Wow. And then sitting down with George. I had a chance to sit down with him and just pick his brain about stuff. So I learned from all of these things.

George seems like a guy who might have no idea who you are until he gets... He loves sports. Does he? Huge sports fair. Did not realize that. Huge. That's kind of surprising. He seems like they got a guy who like hangs out at the library.

The exact opposite. That's fine. He's a huge sports fan and a huge history. Obviously. Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of players have different levels of physical ability. That goes out saying. But even people that you say are legends in the game, they have different levels of physical ability.

So if we take physical ability out of the equation, what do you think it is that allows somebody to be great at anything? Doesn't have to just be bad. I think is how do you negotiate with yourself? That's the biggest thing. And we talk about the mental side of it. But then what does that really mean? The thoughts that happen in your mind when you're going through a competitive situation or you're facing a tight deadline, you still don't have the idea yet.

You know, what happens inside up here? You talk yourself out of it. Do you say, okay, well, it won't be a big deal if I don't do it? Or I don't have to get up on a Tuesday morning that go ahead and hit the track. What does this day really mean in the long scheme of things anyway? It's just one day. And when you have those conversations with yourself, are you able to negotiate your way out of that, little voice telling you it's not that important or does that little voice get the best of you?

I think that's what separates people who are going to do great things versus people who don't or people that do great things but in an inconsistent way. Do you call that out in like your kids when they're laying in bed and you're like, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking 15 more minutes, but not today. No, I let them sleep in. That's the biggest thing as a parent is when they're late, you let them be late and you let them learn from that. and let them figure that out versus me telling them. Ah, right.

So you let them go to the consequences and go, oh, I hate rushing and you're like, how could we have avoided this? Yeah, like my basketball team, for example, when I have the girls run lines. And, you know, we could just as easily say, like I had a parent who was encouraging his daughter. If you run a 17th and he was encouraging her. Come on, you can do it.

You can do it. Dig deep, dig deep. And then after practice, I go down and say, you know, when she's doing those line drills, don't say anything. Because there's a conversation that's happening inside of her head. She's like talking to herself, trying to pump herself up to do it. She's already having those conversations. So for her outside voice to come in, to give her guidance and

they give her the push to keep going actually interrupts her process. Just let her be. Let her figure it out herself. Because as they go through life, as parents, we're not going to be here all the time. You know what I mean? So kids have to be able to navigate those things themselves. You've got to make hundreds of small decisions in the court, same in business, I assume. Your high profile, though, you can't afford a misstep. How do you know who to listen to and who to trust? Well, I mean, that's the thing is that we don't want missteps, but they'll happen. It's fine. High profile or not, it's fine. Sorry, I've had them before. I'm sure what I have them again. It's fine. What I try to do is hire really good people and hire them and not do their job for them.

Not do their job for them? Hire them for reason. Do you have like a panel of people that you rely on for advice that you trust? When it comes to really big company strategy things, 10 year, 15 year type of things, yeah, I do. I'll talk to Mark Parker, which I did. Johnny Ives, Tim Cook, Oprah Winfrey, Shonda Ryan. These are people that I lean on. It must be nice to have a roster of people that you know have a pretty good roster. They haven't screwed up their lives yet. They're doing pretty well. You can be like, what should I do? Have you fallen for this before? Because I feel like I'm getting played. Yeah, we all make the same mistakes when we're all building things. Oprah told me specifically that she's made a lot of the same mistakes that I've made when she first started her studio.

It gives you kind of let you know that you're on the right path. You know, like you think while Disney built Disney and everything was perfect and made every right decision. And then you unpacking, you're like, oh, wait, you signed some really bad contracts. Yeah. I mean, he was financially really, really struggling. And it's okay. It's hard to remember that, though, I would imagine in the moment, right? do you really never beat yourself up over a bad decision?

Because I'm just like, wow, that's like a unicorn mindset. No, there's nothing I can do about it. There's literally nothing I can do about it other than look at why I made a decision I made, you know, what factors kind of fooled me into making the wrong decision. You try to process that for the next time, kind of read the tea leaves on another decision sort of thing. Other than that, that's it. You got to go. We got to move forward.

All right, cool. That's done. Let's go. If you're using, let's say, Shaq is competitive fuel on the court. Who are you using for competitive fuel in your business now? I never use others for competitive fuel. I would only do that for that extra like 2% at the end. The other 98% came from within.

It just came from like the love of playing and the love of figuring things out. And so that's what I do here. Like it's the love of creating something. And I'm really excited because I feel like we're creating something new. The world does not have stories like this. We do not have sports fantasy stories. We don't have those. And so I become very excited about getting those out into the market.

A lot of athletes, they get into trouble, especially when they get injured or they retire. And sometimes one forces the other one. How do you not let demons of uncertainty get inside your head? Like when you tore your Achilles, are you not thinking like, uh-oh, how am I going to come back from this? Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking, damn, I'm done. And I don't know if I can come back from this or my career could be over. Then what am I going to do with the rest of my life?

Like, I had those. But I think what I've learned at an early age is you accept. them versus fight them. If you're nervous or scared about a situation, instead of being like, no, there's nothing to be scared about, nothing to be scared about, oh shit, there is. Yeah. And that's fine. That's okay. You know, like you own it. You give it a hug. You embrace it. And now what are you going to do about it? It seems like studying everything in detail, breaking everything down into little pieces would help in business. But I'm wondering, like, now you've spent the bigger part of your life,

honing physical skills, mental skills. You've got kids now. Do you ever think about mortality, especially having leaned on your body for the first career. Now you're looking at your kids and I don't know about you, nothing makes me feel old or like, oh, I got kids now. I gotta be careful and I'm more fragile than I remember. Yeah, it's a weird mix. I'll tell you like when Bianca was born and when Capri was born, it was an odd mix of like pure enjoyment

and happiness and fulfillment. But at the same time, it was a little sadness because I knew that my two older girls, we're going to age. Of course you know they're going to age. But when you have, like, Bianca now is two, and Coco's two months, it's going to be amazing when they're, you know, six and four.

Four and two. And then you're like, oh, wait a minute. For her to be six, that means Natalia is going to be 20. Dionna's going to be 17. I'm like, you know. What do you think about, well, where does that leave me? Well, I'm more worried about, like, man, my kids. Like, Natalia is almost out of the house.

She'll be 17 in January, 17, you know, and it just puts things in perspective. Like, damn, time has no mercy. It's the one thing that no matter how hard you work, you can't control. No, man, I wish I just had like a T-mo button. I could just pause it for a second. Well, I wish you many more years of success, man. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

Great big thank you to Kobe Bryant. The book is called Legacy and the Queen. Kobe's got something in the works, though, so it wouldn't be surprised if there's even more stuff coming from Kobe Bryant. Really fun to have him on the show here today. We'll link to the book in the show notes. There's also a video of this interview, clips in any case,

on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com. We actually hung out a bit more post show and chatted a bit more off the mic. Him and Shaq and the whole Lakers squad. Don't mind the story about how him and Shaq, they mooned a bunch of fans that were mooning them. This is like back in the day, of course.

The whole bus just mooned a bunch of people from the bus. I mean, it's funny to think about they were just kids back then. They were in their early 20s. I mean, Kobe was like 18, I think, or 17 when he got drafted. In fact, his parents had to sign his first contract. And we also discussed him not being the same person on the court and off the court. He's got this alter ego that he slips into the black mama when he's on the court. When he's off the court, he's a very, very different, more sociable guy, according to his own words. I thought that was pretty interesting. He actually said something about being patient. And then in the same sentence, he said something like, well, but I'm relentless, though. So I asked him, how can you be

patient while the team has a down season or a down year, you're down in your business, but at the same time, be relentlessly going after a certain outcome or result? And he brought about this concept of strategic patience. So he's patient when it comes to, all right, I've got to do a bunch of drills, I've got to work on a discrete skill set, I've got to work on my shots, I've got to work on my footwork, I've got to break down this business idea into little pieces and think about it. That's the strategic patience. He's not patient with, let's say, underperforming teammates or being okay with a mediocre result. And he called this strategic patience. So he's patient when necessary in order to get a better result, but he's not patient in that he's forgiving of people who have shortcomings

or even of his own shortcomings. And I thought that was really an interesting topic. And I wish we gotten that on tape. But alas, not everything when you're talking to somebody of this nature, this stature is within your control. I mean, we go to. of them. I don't know if y'all knew that. We usually go on location to film interviews and often it's like, okay, you get this and yes, they're running late. And also there's people yelling in the hall. I mean, there's a lot of things that are outside of your control. And it was very apropos this interview with Kobe because right when we first started, before we even started rolling, there was something going on. And I was just like, yeah, there's nothing I can do about that. And he's like, you know,

it's an interesting point. Some stuff's just outside your control. So you have to relentlessly control that which you can control. So in other words, you got to do a damn good job in the interview because, yeah, you might start 20 minutes late. Yeah, there might be noise out there. You might run into a technical issue. Stuff you can't necessarily control, so you have to make up for it by having impeccable skill, impeccable strategic patients, a better plan. This was just all around an interesting experience to be around somebody who operates at that level. And I'm really thankful for having this time here with Kobe. So thanks to everybody that helped us. get through that, set that up. I also asked him how he plays through back pain, lack of sleep,

the flu, things like that. And it wasn't just about pain tolerance. I said, what sort of mindset are you having to push all of this aside? And he gave a really interesting example of, let's say, tearing your hamstring. Now, you go home and there's a fire in your house. What do you do then? Do you go, oh, well, I got ice my hamstring? No, you forget about your bad leg, you jog upstairs, get your wife, get your kids, and you deal with it later. The pressure, he said, makes you forget about the pain. In other words, the pull of what you have to do in that moment is greater than the pain you're in at that moment.

And that has to be the case. And that seemed to me like something that he really values as a high performer. So if you're sick, yeah, you feel sick. There's no getting around it, and you can't control your body. But what you can do is push it aside for the couple of hours that you have to be on your game. You pay for it later, of course. So it's not a habit you want to get into with everything in life,

but it is something that allows you to step into a different persona and perform at the very, very top. And that, I thought, was also a worthwhile lesson. So, again, so many great lessons here from Kobe. Really, really fun interview. Thanks, again, to everybody who helped us set that up. We're teaching you how to connect with great people, like Kobe Bryant, manage relationships using systems and tiny habits,

over at our six-minute networking course, which is free that's over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And don't kick that can down the road. Don't procrastinate. Don't say you'll do it later. You can't make up for lost time when it comes to relationships and networking. The number one mistake I see people make, they postpone this. They don't dig the well before they get thirsty.

And then something happens. They go, oh, man, I really need these connections. Well, it's too late. Dig that well before you get thirsty. The drills take a few minutes per day, six-minute networking, hence the name. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. It's not fluff. It is crucial.

You can find it all again for free at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And by the way, most of the guests on the show actually subscribe to the course and the newsletter. So come join us, and you'll be in some smart company. Speaking of building relationships, you can always reach out and or follow me on social. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. And this show is created in association with podcast one. This episode was produced by Jen Harbinger, Jason DeFilippo, and edited by Jace Sanderson.

Show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty, music by Evan Viola, and I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own. And yes, I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting,

which should be in every episode. So please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast? If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what, that actually happened? You've got to subscribe to What Was That Like?

It's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives, and they're not just giving you the highlights. They're walking you through it from the inside as a person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story.

And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing. Do what you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like. Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life.

Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know Podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask,

and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting.

So if you want another show that scratches that, I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.