The Jordan Harbinger Show - 272: How to Sue Your Parents for Identity Theft | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: November 1, 2019

Last week you texted your parents to let them know you'd be able to make it home for Christmas this year. They called back to tell you how they decided several years ago to buy a boat. The only problem was that they didn't have the $20,000 to buy it. Their solution? Take out a student loan in your name, of course! Now they've missed several payments and it's about to default, and your father had the nerve to say, "If you're going to make a big deal about this, it's best if you don't come home this year." In shock and 'about' $25,000' in debt, you're wondering if you should sue your parents for identity theft. On this Feedback Friday, we'll do our best to help you figure out not only if, but how to sue your parents for identity theft if you decide it's the right thing to do. And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://jordanharbinger.com/272. On This Week’s Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Your parents are about to default on a $20,000 student loan they took out in your name without permission so they could buy a boat. So now the question is not only if, but how to sue your parents for identity theft and make sure you’re not on the hook for their mistake. This year, your sister bought plentiful gifts for your oldest and youngest kids, but shorted the middle one considerably. You don’t want to appear ungrateful, but what can you do to make it clear how this is going to play out for Jan Brady on Christmas morning? You have trouble connecting and communicating with people and cultures outside your own. You’re a science-y, city type struggling with social skills, and your work brings you into contact with a more rural demographic. How can you bridge the gap? Because you compete in beauty pageants, some make incorrect assumptions about your intelligence. How can you build your professional identity and network as a future physician without having to hide your personal interests and accomplishments? You’re in a small market and want to get noticed by potential mentors or hiring managers outside of your geographic location. What thoughts or strategies do we have for moving up the corporate ladder? Your recent college graduate son is an introvert with Asperger-like qualities when it comes to interpersonal skills. When you bring up networking as a way to get ahead in his new career, he shuts down and exits the conversation. How can you best support his progress? You’re starting to plan your work travel for next year. How do we decide what conferences and events are worth our time when we’re making our travel plans? You hate winter so much because of the cold, the dark, and the holidays. You get depressed and stressed, and basically hibernate. What do we recommend for people with past abuse for whom the holidays turn into a deep, dark, angry depression? Life Pro Tip: If you have aging parents, go through their bills with them and make... See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger, and I'm here with producer Jason DeFilippo. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant and interesting people

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And this week we had Ben Horowitz. We discussed how prison culture and the Haitian slave revolt can actually teach us about modern business culture. Always nice to have these non-obvious parallels and connections.

Ben Horowitz is the co-founder of Andresen Horowitz, super famous VC firm here in Silicon Valley. We also had Ryan Holiday. We did an interview that's different than what he's done on other shows here recently. A lot of candid conversation about ambition, doing work that matters, and the dangers of comparing ourselves to others, among many other topics. Always good to catch up with Ryan here on the show. I also read every so often on the blog.

We've got articles about why you need to stop telling people about your goals, why you should stop following your intuition. Yes, a little contrarian sometimes. and you can find those at Jordan Harbinger.com slash articles. So make sure you've had a look and a listen to all of that. Of course, our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our insights and our guests' insights and experiences to you. We'd love to have conversations directly with you,

and that's what we do today and every Friday here on Feedback Friday. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. If you don't know, I'm going to prison, February 26th, Reno Nevada. You can join me. It's for my birthday. We're doing an educational program for the inmates. You don't have to educate yourself. You can just participate.

Let me know if you're interested. Email me, prison at jordanharbinger.com. It'll be about a thousand bucks plus travel. All of it goes to the educational program. Right outside Reno, February 26th, going to be a lot of fun and a life-changing experience. So if you're into those sort of alternative, fun, cool things that you can't normally do on your own,

this is definitely one of those. Email me prison at jordanharbinger.com, and I'll get you on the interest list. All right, Jason, what is the first thing out of the mail bag here. Hi guys. I graduated college four years ago and I rarely speak to my mother or father, maybe two to three times a year. Even then, it's only for a few minutes. I live about 800 miles away and I only go back to my hometown once a year, either for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Last week, I texted my father and let him know that I'd be able to make it back for Christmas this year.

About a minute later, he called and over the course of five minutes, explained how he and my mother decided several years ago that they would buy a boat. The only problem was that they did didn't have the $20,000 to buy it. What was their solution? Take out a student loan in my name, of course. My mailing address was always their house throughout college, so I was none the wiser. Why was my dad telling me about it now? Four years after the fact? Because they can't pay it back. They actually never paid any of it back. They kept putting it in forbearance, but that ran out early this year. Fast forward seven or eight missed payments later, and my dad tells me the only reason he's telling me now is because he doesn't want me to bring it up at Christmas, and he knows it's going to default

in a month or two. His exact words were, if you're going to make a big deal about this, it's best if you don't come home this year. He also said about $25,000 is what I would need to pay it off. I hung up and just sat in shock for a couple of minutes. I called my brother yesterday and told him what was happening, and that I think I'm going to sue them for whatever it takes to pay off the loan. I still don't know what that amount even is yet. I'm cool with my brother, and he's cool with my parents, and I'm sure he probably talked to them, because this morning I got a text for my mom just saying, do not sue us. I texted her back, saying she would need to immediately pay off the entire loan and show me proof. She texts me back saying that I need to grow up. Obviously,

I'm not even going to respond to that. The boat is probably worth half of what they paid for it by now. I don't know if they have the money or not to pay it immediately if I sue them, but I figure I can at least garnish their wages. My other brother called and asked me to hold off for a few months before doing anything and that it was shitty of them to do that, but to give them time to make a chance at start paying it off. What would you suggest? Signed without a paddle. Okay, this infuriates me. Dude. First of all, these people are narcissistic assholes. Really? This is terrible. At the least. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, et cetera. Retain counsel immediately. It's not cheap. It's going to be cheaper than paying the loan. And your credit is effed right now. It's

F right now, it's going to be way worse when the loan goes into default. Your lawyer will probably tell you to send a letter threatening a lawsuit. I would do this immediately. Do not delay. Don't wait for them to start paying it off. You can't expect completely unreasonable people to suddenly become reasonable because you ask them to become reasonable. I'm going to repeat that. You cannot expect completely unreasonable people to suddenly become reasonable because you asked them to. The letter from your attorney may show that you mean business, but honestly, I'm of the opinion that you should do more about this, they will not be able to prove that the loan is yours because it's not, and they likely won't even contest this, but they'll settle out of court

for payment in full plus any interest. That is one avenue, but I don't think it's the best avenue. This is the avenue that maybe doesn't completely nuke your family relationship. However, I think that these people don't care about you. That's what I really think. I would consider asking for damages as well. I know that your parents, but they clearly do not actually care if they ruin your financial life just so they can have a few fun weekends on a boat. Bear in mind, they bought this boat using money obtained by fraud and made absolutely no attempt to pay the loan back, knowing that you would suffer the consequences. This is obscene.

I'm angry just reading about it right now. When you hesitate to sue your parents, and I'm going to give you a better avenue, honestly, which is filing a police report, but when you hesitate to do this, think of two things. Think about not being able to buy anything you want, including a home and a car for, like, years because your credit is screwed, and think of them enjoying the boat for many, many hours and not feeling bad about this at all. They were far more concerned with you complaining at Christmas than about them ruining your financial life than they were about you suffering the consequences here. Also, they didn't commit this fraud to put food on the table. They didn't

take a loan out and then have your other brother go to college and now he and them are going to pay it back. None of that. That's still fraud, by the way. But they did it to buy a freaking boat. Shame on them. They should go to prison. I'm totally serious here. Remember, you aren't burning this bridge with your family. They burnt it when they stole your identity and failed to even attempt to cover their tracks. Again, it sounds like complete narcissistic BS. And it may help to save those Facebook posts or any sort of photos that you have that maybe mention the boat or show the boat. I assume that's how you know about the boat. Also, if you can find the first one, any sort of post or comment that says, like, hey, we got a boat, and it's right after they got the loan, that's even better for you

because it shows exactly what they did with the money. My tactical advice here, and again, get your own counsel, get your own legal counsel, file a police report immediately and do not agree in any way, shape, or form to any type of repayment plan. Because that's a contract, it's a civil agreement, it may invalidate or at least make your case a lot harder, your criminal case, a lot harder. And the reason you need the criminal case is not to just to punish your parents. I'll get to why you're doing this in a second. Basically, it could be seen by the cops if you do any sort of civil arrangement here that this is handled. The police might say, well, it's not a crime. You've retroactively agreed to the loan. They didn't steal your

identity. It's a whole thing between you and them. This isn't 100% the way it works, but do not agree to repayment. Also, you don't want to accept any responsibility for this debt because it will make your case infinitely more complicated. Do not wait to take steps to absolve yourself of all of this. The longer you wait, the more problems it'll create for you. And the longer you let this lie, the more likely it is that the credit bureaus and the bank especially are going to say, well, you waited eight months to file this. This makes me think that this isn't really something you're that upset about. So you're going to have to show you just discovered this. It's already been a while. If you file a police report, your credit may actually be repaired pretty much right away

because this was not your doing. If you simply get it repaid, your credit is still in default. You're still screwed for years and years and years here. In fact, if you file a police report, and this is a fraud case, the loan company, the bank, will sue them so you don't have to. You don't have to go through the expense. You don't have to even take the time. They have professional litigators who will go, oh, fraud, we've got a form for that.

Suing is what you can do maybe after all this, oh, this is fraud. Paperwork has been done. likely somewhat simultaneously with a criminal investigation, immediately suing them without making a criminal report is unlikely to win you any points with the judge, the bank, or any credit agency. Also, if you have any text messages from your parents or even other people in the family regarding the loan, save them in case you need evidence. Screenshot it, save the screenshots. Don't delete your texts.

Put a freeze on your credit ASAP. If they're willing to take student loans in your name to buy a boat, then they might be willing to take credit cards in your name. all other kinds of stupid stuff. So make sure that you've checked all your open accounts and that this loan is the only thing that they have. They might have maxed out a bunch of other cards in your name too. You don't even know. Call the non-emergency police line,

have an officer come out and take a police report, then contact the lender, the person who made the loaned bank, and explain the situation and then send them a copy of the report. The loan will come off your credit report, assuming the investigators handling this are even halfway competent, You actually aren't even required to file this police report by law. It just helps slide things along because then it's not just sort of a claim. It's documented.

Your parents said they took out a loan and can't pay it back. You shouldn't be worrying about this at all. I mean, I get why you are, but this is fraud. They should be worried about this. And I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, man. This gets me so angry. I can't imagine doing this to someone else, especially my own kid and especially not for a boat. This is just absolutely narcissistic garbage.

You're already saying you see them once a year. You talk to them three times a year for a few minutes. You are better off without these people. And your brothers might be a little annoyed at you, but honestly, that's completely unreasonable. Your parents committed a crime against you. If it had happened to them, they'd be super pissed. They did it to you because they thought they would get away with it.

You can't let them get away with it. Ugh, irritating. I want to see the look on these people's face when they get arrested for this. Oh, that would be priceless. I can't believe this. Oh, my gosh, these people are terrible people. You're lucky you came out a normal human.

Any sort of weird issue you're having or any sort of relationship difficulty you're having, consider therapy because it's almost impossible to get raised by narcissistic jerks like this and not have residual baggage. So if you've ever thought about getting any kind of therapy, I highly recommend going and get your head checked because not because of anything you've done, but because I don't see how you can come through a childhood with people like this unscathed. I just don't. All right, Jason, what's next?

Hi, team. I'm a single mom. I'm going through a very rough financial patch, and Christmas is coming up fast here. My sister said she'd take care of Christmas presents for my kids and would let me label them for me and Santa Claus. My kids are 14, 12, and 5. I'm extremely grateful, of course. My sister had me come over to look at the stuff and help wrap it. The amount of presents my oldest and youngest will get compared to,

my middle kid is a lot. Not even thinking I blurted out, is this all the 12-year-old is getting? My sister was really offended and laid into me about how I shouldn't have the audacity to ask for more stuff when she provided my kids with their entire Christmas. I apologized for my bluntness, but said there was no way I could give my other kids all of that stuff while my middle kid got three things that she didn't even ask for or need. I asked if we could take some of the toys back because it was way too many for the five-year-old and used that money towards the 12-year-old. She said it would be the last time she ever offered to do something nice for me because of my entitlement. I told her that's fine and she doesn't have to buy anything else, but some of those

toys have to go back, period. I'm not going to have one kid opening 15 presents while the other is opening three. She ended up taking some of the toys back and said she won't show up on Christmas day to see them open them like we had planned. Am I a jerk for doing this? My middle daughter is hitting puberty hard and is really emotional these days, so I know it would make her feel really bad if she was left watching her siblings, opening gifts after she only had three, and the best one was a book and the rest just toiletries. Thanks. Do I get cold for Christmas? So this is a tough call. I mean, man, one kid opens all this video games, all this music, all his movies and stuff is super stoked. The little kid's opening stuff gets a bike is super stoked, and then she gets a bunch of

crap from a hotel and a book that she could check out at the library. I mean, ugh, horrible. This is bad, right? She's going to feel terrible. And the thing is, she's not going to blame your sister. She's not going to blame her aunt for doing this. She's going to blame you because she knows that you're the one who put those there, right? It's not like, hey, your aunt bought all the gifts this year and she was really cheap with you. Well, thanks, Mom, for sticking up for me. I mean, there's no situation in which you don't come out horrible here. And this isn't entitled. There's nothing, it would be different if you said, where are my presence? That's entitled. When you say, this can't be all my one kid gets, that's not

really entitlement. I mean, I can sort of see what your sister's saying, but I disagree here. In the end, you're a good mother for paying attention to how everyone here feels. Obviously, the kids are going to blame me. They're not just going to blame you. They're going to blame each other for any unperceived unfairness. So she seems to be missing the main point here, your sister. It's generous, yeah, but she seems to be missing the same point. Your kids are going to fight with each other. Your middle daughter's going to be annoyed and terrorize everyone during Christmas. That sucks. I understand her perspective here that your sister. I'm just confused as to why she would be angry. I suppose maybe, look, maybe the communication was a little mishandled. It's hard to say here.

She might also favor the other kids in a subconscious way. It could be unconscious. Maybe she ran out of money and she didn't want to admit that she ran out of money. I don't know. Some of the stuff might also be re-gifted, right? She doesn't want to say, hey, all this is other crap that I got and I wanted to re-gift and none of it was appropriate for a 12-year-old girl. That's possible. It's hard to say here. I'm just speculating, but I think you did the right thing. It's not worth fighting over this with your sister, though.

It seems more ignorant or thoughtless rather than deliberately malicious on her part. Plus, there is still time to solve this problem. I've got some pretty sweet headphones. They're new one in the box. They're from a sponsor. It doesn't say free headphones on the box or anything. And I hope your daughter likes music. These are legit headphones.

These can be her big gift. She's not going to care about the toiletries. She'll have a book and a cool set of headphones. If you'd rather have something else, you can get a couple hundred bucks for these headphones on eBay or Craigslist. You still have time to sell them, hawk them, whatever, or wrap them. Get whatever you'd like for your daughter. I hope you have an awesome Christmas, and I'm sorry that you're dealing with a tough spot here economically and with your family. It's a match.

There's kind of no good solution, so I'm happy to give you what little help I can. This is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes to your podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family.

If you want some tips on how to do that, head on over to jordanharbinger.com slash subscribe. Now let's hear some more of your questions here on Feedback Friday. All right, Jason, what's next? Hello, all. I feel as though I have a bit of trouble connecting and communicating with people and cultures outside of my own. I'm college-educated and pursuing a graduate degree in the sciences and generally live and associate with educated, cosmopolitan people of an upper-middle-class background. My line of work, natural resource management and research, frequently has me living and working

in rural areas with characters like farmers, ranchers, fishermen, and hunters. I'm in rural Michigan, if that helps explain the culture I'm around. I often find it difficult to explain the work I'm doing, why I'm doing it and why environmental regulations are put into place. I can explain and answer questions, but I can't quite do it in a way that's appealing and facilitates understanding. I do what I can to empathize, eliminate jargon, and find commonalities, but I still feel like there's a barrier preventing connection. The stereotype of sciencey types struggling with social skills exists for a reason. I've worked hard to improve because I spend so much time interfacing with the public. Is there something I'm missing? How else can I bridge the gap?

Thanks for the advice, in need of Hick help. Well, tip number one, don't call them Hicks. Yeah, tip number one, don't call them Hicks, exactly, Jason. I think this is a case for the tornado technique. So this is in six-minute networking, which, by the way, if you're not in that course, it's free, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. It's an exercise to, in a way, and I say dumb down, but simplify what you do so that anyone can understand it. So if someone says, oh, yeah, you know, I do compliance for multinational corporations or risk management

for multinational corporations. Instead of saying that, you kind of do a game of reverse telephone. You want to make sure that when you tell someone, they can tell someone else what you do in a way that's understood. So if you do compliance and risk assessment or risk analysis for multinational corporations, what you might say instead is, I make sure sister corporations of my company overseas don't do anything illegal under U.S. law. Something like that.

Or if you say, I do such and such and such and such risk analysis, you might say, I make sure that everything my company does in America and overseas is compliant with the laws of the country in which they do it. That's something that's easy enough to change. So if you're doing something with science and you're talking with people who might not have a background in that, what you do is just get down to the result. So I don't know exactly what you do, but what you might say is, I make sure that everything that happens on the farms around here

is in compliance with environmental regulations because we need to make sure that you can do what you do for a long time and that the soil isn't ruined by mistake or by poor practices. You're going to want to rephrase that because you don't want to make it sound like they might be doing something wrong. So you're going to want to investigate that. You can get a much more full explanation for that

in six-minute networking, which is, again, free over at jordanharbinger.com slash course. this a lot for engineers, Silicon Valley types, people who have really specialized careers that a lot of people don't understand. When you say teacher, doctor, lawyer, accountant, police officer, we kind of know what you're talking about. But if you've got a fancy or confusing job title or you're in finance or a technical field, you need the tornado technique. And that is in six-minute networking. Have at it. All right, Jason, what's next? Hello, Jordan, Jen, and Jason. I'm a medical student, and I worked my tail off to get where I am today. Outside of school, I compete in pageants.

my colleagues learn about my hobby, some can be incredibly dismissive. I can see some of them withdraw and lose interest in me. I've even heard someone make a comment about my intelligence when they didn't know I was close enough to hear it. Pagents have put hundreds of community service hours and some very cool speaking engagements on my resume. I'm tired of people making assumptions about me and my capabilities over my extracurricular pursuits. I was wondering if you had any insight on how I can build my professional identity and network as a future physician without having to hide my personal interests and accomplishments. Thank you so much. Signed, proud of the pageants. What am I missing here? This doesn't sound like something you should have to work around or hide. So to me, it sounds like

people are just jealous or something. I'm so confused right now. I'd say this is a screen for some folks. If they're angry about this, that to me just sounds really petty and ridiculous. If you get a chance to ask someone what they don't like about this, maybe go that route if you eventually build a relationship with someone. Honestly, this just sounds like jealousy, like a jealousy thing. I also think some folks see this as maybe it's degrading to women, so maybe they see you as complicit in that. But I can really only speculate here. It seems pretty crappy to treat someone as less than because they're doing something that you don't approve of, especially when that thing you don't approve of involves hundreds of hours of community service and things like that. It's

hardly a way to change something you disagree with. So I don't know what I'm missing here. That's the only thing I can think of. If I were in that scenario, I think I would find somebody who clearly disapproved of it and just straight up ask them what's going on. Because a lot of times meeting things like this head on, especially petty sort of silent treatment BS, sometimes that can end it because they realize, oh, I've been called out and I have no good reason. They might not give you a great reason, but at least they'll know that you know and the jig is kind of up on that. I think this is such a silly concern, not for you to have. I mean, of course, you want to be well liked at work, but I cannot imagine why somebody would blow you off because of this.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. They're just petty people and you don't want to be around them anyway because you're an accomplished, you know, winner. Why would you even want to deal with people like that or who are going to look down on you? I mean, you're in med school and you're a pageant winner. Scrum. Scroom. Scroom. Yeah, that's where I'm at with it. You can't control these people's perception. And if you keep achieving like that, you're going to run into people who are pissed off just about that, period. Right. Anyway, sorry you're dealing with that. This is a good lesson in life that a lot of people aren't going to be happy for your accomplishments, and that's just the way it is. It doesn't mean that everyone's like, hashtag hater, you know, it just means that

some people have unrealistic garbage that they're working through, and that's pretty much it. There might also be something else going on or it could all be in your head. I don't know. All right, Jason, next up. Hey, J-Team, I've been with my current company for about seven months now, and just now getting my feet under me to really start growing in my position. I work for a national bank, and because of my position, I have several monthly conference calls where I listen to different VPs, training consultants, etc. Would it be a good idea to reach out to these individuals? Even if it's just a follow-up email thanking them for their time and information? I'm in a small market and want to get noticed by potential mentors or hiring managers outside of my geographic location. Any other thoughts or strategies to move up the corporate ladder? Love the show and keep the conversations coming. Signed, Spreading My Wings. I actually really like this idea. I think it's a great idea.

Next time you have a conference call, find the attendees and their contact info. It probably will be on a calendar invite if you have one for the call, or they'll just be searchable in the company directory. And yes, reach out, tell them you appreciate their time and the information, and that you're actually paying attention on the calls. You're probably going to, I would imagine if you're doing comment, conference calls all the time. Everybody who's presenting just thinks, oh, God, nobody's even listening to this. It's even better if you can ask some sort of substantive question, but only if you

have one. If you're just coming up with some fake question, it's going to be really transparent. Then pop these folks contact info into your CRM or your contact spreadsheet. You all know I use contactually, but not everybody wants to spring for that. Then keep those folks in a contact bucket for 90 days or so. That means you keep in touch with them every 90 days. That'll keep you top of mind and you can ask them about opportunities in their area, in their branch, in their office, whatever it is, once you've developed a bit of a relationship. I think this is a great idea, a really easy way to add people into your network inside the company. I think it's a really wise, forward-thinking idea. So congrats on that. Definitely let us know how this goes.

I can see this being very, very fruitful in your career in the future. Okay, Jason, next up. Jordan, Jason, and Jen. I'm seeking advice on how to best assist my recent college graduate son to take the next steps in his life. My son received his bachelor's degree in computer science this June. He's living back at home and hasn't applied for jobs yet. He asked for a few months break and then we'll start applying. Well, it's been four months. My son is intelligent, was a gate student in elementary school, honors in AP classes in high school, but is an introvert with Asperger-like qualities when it comes to interpersonal skills. I'm more direct, and when I inquire about his plan, thoughts, is he networking, etc., he shuts down, defers, and goes back to his room.

My husband and I have agreed that he will meet with him one-on-one to discuss the next steps. A concern of ours is that is this just a simple postgraduate anxiety, or do we need to help him find a therapist who can help with his interpersonal skills and help make a plan for action? We both are supportive of him, but we know that inactivity can lead to stagnation. He's motivated to be physically active, has leftover money to pay for a low-fee gym membership, goes five days a week and plays flag football with a group on Sundays. He's got no past girlfriends or significant other as well. I'm looking for advice.

Thanks for anything you can do. Mom, looking for motivational help. Yeah, this is not good. I feel for you. Yes, there's something to be said for graduation anxiety. I also had this. I try to get a job at Best Buy after college, and they're like, yeah, you can sell CDs.

And I was like, what the hell? I have a four-year degree. I'm not going to do a job where my boss is 16 years old. It doesn't make any sense. I'm not getting ahead at anything. Then I applied to law school. I traveled abroad. I had all kinds of ways to kill time.

I literally went to law school, as many of you know, because I didn't know what else to do. And I thought, if I can't even get a job at Best Buy, I'm totally effed. This seems a little different, though. Many of us are excited to move on to the next step in life, and maybe we're a little anxious, but we don't just stay in the nest.

Also, there's a depression angle that happens to a lot of grads. But if he's hitting the gym five days a week, He's playing football weekly. It sounds like there might be something else going on here. Depression doesn't always mean stay in bed all the time, but it is a little strange that he's hitting the gym, he's going and doing a bunch of stuff, he's just not trying to find a job.

It sounds like he's actually more anxious to apply and face potential rejection, and the fact that he's actually getting annoyed with you guys bringing this up is also problematic. You know, he's not saying, yeah, I don't know, I got to do this, I know, I'm just going to work more on my resume. It sounds like he's just rejecting the entire idea. would get him a counselor and go with him. Don't just outsource the problem. I would also set a

timeline here. In other words, agree mutually if possible on a time limit for him staying in the house. My parents did this. They told me I could live with them for three months if I needed maximum. After that, I needed to get the hell out. And I never used any of that time. I was out, out. I never, well, I never went back home. I get not wanting to kick out your kid. And you probably won't have to. But he does need to know that living with you guys for the next. Two years is not an option, especially if he's not even applying or looking for work. And this problem only gets worse over time, by the way. Employers are going to want to know what he's done since graduation.

Why did he take so much time? Does he actually want to work? Plus, if everyone else started after they graduated and he's months and months and months or a year late, now he's behind those people and less useful to the firm. He's also not building any skills right now, at least none that give him any sort of competitive advantage. You know, he's not learning a language, he's not traveling overseas, he's not getting to know some other type of work, he's just literally wasting time. Good thing he's staying in shape, but that's pretty much it. I get needing a break, but this to me sounds like avoidance. I think a

counselor in a game plan with accountability are what's needed here, along with a firm deadline for you to stop supporting and potentially enabling this behavior. Again, I'm not saying this is your fault or anything like that. But after a certain amount of time, if he's still living with you and playing video games in the basement, well, you have to accept some responsibility that you're enabling that. So let's not get to that point. The good news is he sounds perfectly qualified for a job, especially in computer engineering. So hopefully this won't be too painful of a process here, and he's just going through some growing pains. Okay, Jason, next up. Happy Friday to all the Jays. I'm starting my planning for 2020 and want to do a mix of local events

and travel events. There are two conferences that I usually go to every year, but business-wise, they haven't been helpful. I'm wondering, how do you decide what conferences, events, etc., to go to during your actual annual planning? How is having your first kid going to change that for you? Thanks for all your advice. Best regards, the proper planner. Well, now I value my time much more, my home time, much more since having Jaden. Jen used to come with me on all my trips. So going places was a much easier choice back then. Now, I've got kind of three pillars. This is not an exact science, but my three pillars are, all right, am I going to get paid,

so money? Two, am I going to have friends there that I want to see, or am I going to make some new and great connections, so people? And three, is the conference in a place I've wanted to travel? For example, maybe I'm not getting paid much. Maybe the crowd isn't my style or my industry, whatever, but it's in a five-star resort on Hawaii, and all of that, of course, is comped or something like that. So trips I do each year, I do a family trip with the parents, both mine and Jen's parents

or just mine since we live near Jen's parents and see them much more often. I'm going to add a Jordan Harbinger show team trip to that. So we're not sure where we're going to go, but I'm going to do something cool, hopefully take everyone someplace rad. I'm going to Bhutan. That's with a bunch of entrepreneurs. It's a great location. It's a highly curated group of friends and new people.

And I go to this other event that is highly, highly curated. It's always in a great location. It's always a great event, and I pay to go to that. But for conferences, there's really only one main one that I go to, which is podcast movement. It's an industry conference. Everyone's there from all the big companies, and it gives me a chance to embarrass myself in front of my peers. And I take a few paid speaking engagements. But other than that, that's about it.

I travel enough for the show, and I don't really want more on my plate unless it fills up two of the three pillars, again, which are money, people, and locations. So if I'm getting paid, depends on the amount. if it's in a boring place, but if I'm getting paid and it's a nice place or I've got other friends there, I'll go. If it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's got a great group, then I'll go. So it really does depend on location, people, and money, and I try to balance those things. And you've got to be really careful about that. Don't look at them necessarily in the most optimistic way. Don't say, oh, well, I might meet someone really cool at this, but it's unpaid and

it's in the middle of nowhere. You've got to think, what are the reasonable options for me here? Am I going to likely make some really good connections? If so, then go, especially if it's paid. And if you think the location might be really boring, but you're not sure, take a look, do some research. It's worth it because there's nothing quite like getting stuck in the middle of a city with nothing to do, realizing the crowd isn't your style,

and you're doing some free gig for some company that you don't care about. I mean, that's a great way to start burning out, feel resentment towards what you're doing. Then you're going to want to turn down all of the good stuff. too. Here's a nice constructive way to do this. Dan Ariely, behavioral economist, he told me this. He goes, every time you're faced with an opportunity, think, would I do this next week if it's next

week? Because when something is just generally next year, you're like, yeah, sure, my calendar's wide open. But then as we get closer, you go, oh, I'm really busy. I can't believe I have to go and do that. Think of it as, yeah, this is probably next week. Would you say yes? I would definitely go to Bhutan next week. I would definitely do a highly paid speaking gig next week. I would move stuff. If you wouldn't move stuff and do it, then you should probably say no. That's my rule of them. We'll be right back with more Feedback Friday right after this. Thank you for supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers helps keep us on the air. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Now back to the show for the conclusion

of Feedback Friday. All right, Jason. but not least. Jordan, I hate winters so much because of the cold, dark, and the holidays. I get depressed and stressed and basically hibernate. It's now to the point where I dread and worry about it so much before it actually begins that it starts sooner every year. Other than self-care, is there something else I can be doing to ensure it doesn't get worse each year?

What do you recommend for people with past abuse for whom the holidays turn into deep, dark, angry depression? Thanks, summer lover. This is called seasonal effective disorder, or it can be. I'm not trying to diagnose you with anything. Sad, which is very clever. Therapy is going to be huge here. Working with a therapist is different than talking to somebody that you trust.

On the show, we often recommend talking to a therapist. We recommend better help. They are a great way to sort of dip your toes in the therapy water. Seeing a therapist can often be seen as taboo, something to be ashamed of. Therapy's really great, actually, but it doesn't always feel so good during a session. A good therapist doesn't always make you feel better when you're there, when you're doing the session. Often the goal is to challenge you, make you answer questions you've been avoiding because it's easier to pretend the problem isn't there.

Force a third-party perspective into your own insecurities. That's what therapy can be good for. You can ruminate on stuff all you want. You can talk with friends and family, but a therapist really is sort of an objective third-party. You might find progress that will improve your day-to-day functioning. Therapy can also be pretty inconvenient, and that's one. reason that we recommend BetterHelp as well. Since all of it is by phone, video chat, et cetera, you can do it in a way that doesn't require you to find somebody, look at the reviews,

go drive across town and park, go to BetterHelp.com slash Jordan, and you can get a deal on BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com slash Jordan. Light therapy also works really well for a lot of my Michigan-based friends. When I was in law school in Michigan, I also had some SAD seasonal effective disorder. I got one of those blue lights, and we can link to some of those in the show notes, gets your body seeing some blue red light when you're not getting as much from the sun during the fall and the winter. And it's best in combination with talk therapy. I've actually got a Phillips blue light that I still use all the time in the winter. I love that thing. I've had it for 10 years. It's still cooking. And in the morning when I get up, it's still dark outside.

I crank that on for 20 minutes. And it really, really helps my mood through the rest of the day. Yeah. I think these are great. These blue lights, they're really, they do work. It is good in combination with talk therapy, especially if you're like, this thing isn't working, I'm just getting worse. Definitely get therapy before you start feeling like crap. That's my advice. I would also say this topic's a little broader for you because you need something that's confidential and emotionally safe. That's why I'm recommending therapy for you specifically. Without knowing a lot more about the past abuse, how you're affected, who the perpetrator of the abuse was. If they're present at holiday gatherings, that might have something to do with it. It would be

unethical, unhelpful of me to even attempt very specific recommendations. What I can say is that if you find yourself in this dark place during the holidays or any time of year, it's crucial that you reach out for help and reach out to somebody who is trained in working with trauma. People with past abuse have every legitimate reason in the world not to trust people that should have been helping them. And this feeling can stop survivors of past abuse from getting in-person therapy from helping professionals. The mistrust is natural. It's an adaptive response to abuse. Most early or childhood abuse happens at the hands of parents, mentors, community members that should have been protecting them, but hurt them instead. So a well-trained trauma therapist knows how to work with survivors to establish

safety and trust before diving into the past. So if you want to dip your toes in the therapy water, but you want to keep it on the low, you want to make it really convenient. Try better help. Betterhelp.com slash Jordan for a deal on that. Honestly, life's just too short to dread half the year, especially the holidays, which are supposed to be a lot of fun. Life Pro Tip of the week, if you have aging parents, go through their bills with them, if they'll let you, make sure they're paying fair market price for things like cable and energy. A couple of people have reported their parents were paying like $750 a month for electricity, $400 for cable because they had all this stuff. They had signed up for these plans years ago, and the plans expired, so they just kept raising the price on

them, and it's like, it's on auto draft. So you'll find stuff in there that might make you pretty angry. Set reminders in your own calendar for when the different contracts expire. I was able to negotiate some stuff with my parents. My parents, for years, we're paying $20 a month for AOL email, even though it was free. And when I called, AOL's like, oh, no, we offer virus protection. I'm like, they have a Mac. They don't need your fake-ass virus. protection. Well, we offer technical support. I'm like, no, you don't. My dad's tried to call you guys. He's been on hold for 90 minutes at a time, and then you tell them, oh, that's not our app. It's your mail app. You got to call Apple. Like, no, just stop. And my dad was so pissed because he's like,

they're going to change our email. I'm like, no, they're not. It's free. Jen was able to help her parents lower their car insurance by a few hundred bucks a year because we called and asked for a lower rate. We were already on the phone with the insurance provider, and we said, hey, what can you for this car and they're like, oh, well, it'd be this much. Well, why are we paying $400 then? Oh, we can lower it. That was it. And they just lowered it down to under 200 bucks in 30 freaking seconds.

So you can save your parents or yourself a ton of money. A lot of these companies, they thrive on the fact that you set it and forget it and never look for anything new. So don't let that happen to your parents. I feel like AOL made hundreds of millions of dollars probably still does, charging people internet and email when it's really free. And then they say they're charging you for tech support and virus protection, but it's just BS. They're probably still charging people for dial-up, believe it or not.

Oh, I'm sure they are. I'm sure that they are. Oh, you have access to our modem bank. Like, what? What is that? I don't even have a modem. Yeah, what's a modem? Exactly.

Recommendation of the week, Unnatural Selection. This is a really interesting biohacking mini-series. I was recommended by a couple of you listeners as well. It's on Netflix. Unnatural Selection. It's about how people are taking gene editing, CRISPR, into their own hands. A little controversial, of course,

but it's actually quite easy to make gene edits kind of. I mean, there's a guy and there's a dog trainer trying to make a glow in the dark puppy, crazy stuff. It seems a little bit on the edge of medical ethics and people are trying to shut it down. However, it's also speeding up the process of innovation. So there's that.

Depends on what you think. Maybe we can get rid of some of these metabolic diseases that big pharma or medical research, just aren't really incentivized yet to screen for. There's a lot going on there. So doing this at home, I don't know. I'm a little scared of it, but I don't want to prohibit other people from doing it.

Check out unnatural selection on Netflix. I thought that was really interesting. I hope you all enjoyed the show today. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. If you want to go to prison with us, email me, prison at jordanharbinger.com. Show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com and go back and check out the guests from this week,

Ben Horowitz and Ryan Holiday, if you haven't. If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using systems and tiny habits, check out six minute networking. It is free, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And the problem with delaying it, you cannot make up for lost time when it comes to relationships. Dig the well before you get thirsty. These drills take six minutes a day, ignore it at your own peril, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course.

I'm also on Instagram and Twitter at Jordan Harbinger. Great way to engage with the show and with me. videos of our interviews are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. Jason? You can check out my tech podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks, where we talk about what went wrong on the internet and who's to blame. That's over at gog.com or whatever podcast player you're listening to this show on. This show was created in association with podcast one. This episode was produced by Jen Harbinger, edited by Jace Sanderson, show notes by Robert Fogarty, music by Evan Viola. Keep sending in your questions to Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests,

their own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipe. Very excited to bring it to you. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast. If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what that actually happened? You got to subscribe to what was that like? It's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives, and they're

not just giving you the highlights. They're walking you through it from the inside as a person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing. Do what you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like. Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what was

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