The Jordan Harbinger Show - 354: ZDoggMD | Debunking Plandemic COVID-19 Pseudoscience

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

ZDoggMD (@ZDoggMD) [aka Zubin Damania] is a physician, assistant professor, comedian, Internet personality, musician, founder of Turntable Health, and host of The ZDoggMD Show. What We Discuss with ZDoggMD: No, COVID-19 wasn't cooked up in a lab somewhere to wreak havoc on the world's populace at the behest of elite politicians and scientists. No, COVID-19 is not "activated" by wearing face masks designed to protect you and others from the spread of pathogens. No, Dr. Anthony Fauci wasn't responsible for destroying Judy Mikovits' career and covering up her (discredited) contributions to medical science. No, Italian vaccines aren't to blame for causing COVID-19 symptoms in otherwise healthy people. No, Jordan Harbinger and Dr. Zubin Damania are not shills for the Illuminati. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://jordanharbinger.com/354 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You go down a rabbit hole that takes you in a vortex that then creates a bubble of misinformation around you that confirms your pre-existing bias. I mean, there's a reason you're watching that video. You probably have some bias. You don't trust the government. You don't trust pharma. You don't trust corporations. Anything that feeds that emotional bias of yours is going to feed your confirmation bias and

your desire to be right and your desire to have a tribe around you that it feels like your people and the desire to feel exclusive, the desire to feel in control. They want to believe these ideas. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's sharpest minds and most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave, and our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a much deeper

understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening. If you're new to the show, we've got episodes with spies and CEOs, athletes and authors, thinkers and performers, as well as toolboxes for skills like negotiation, body language, persuasion, and more. So, if you're smart and you like to learn and improve, you're going to be right at home here with us. Today is a little departure from our usual fare. I'm actually bringing a buddy of mine, Zubin Demania, aka ZD.M.D. from YouTube to help debunk this plandemic crap. If you haven't seen plundemic, it is a nonsense piece of anti-science propaganda. that is making its way through social media and through various video hosting networks

and makes the case, well, attempts to make the case, makes the claim, the ridiculous claim that COVID-19 was created in a lab, that it's being allowed to get out of hand because of a collusion between scientists and politicians, including Anthony Fauci and all these Illuminati-type people, whatever it is. It's your standard conspiracy nonsense, except this fake documentary has gone absolutely viral, no pun intended. It is being shared, wildly by people who are both gullible and or dense or people who are just uninformed. And so what we're going to do today is inform you. If you haven't seen it at all, it doesn't really matter.

It's 100% nonsense, literally. I watch stuff like this because you send it to me to debunk. And I also want to know the ingredients of bad thinking and conspiracy theory nonsense that's going around online, especially if it hits mainstream popularity. Because as your counsel, I mean, although I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, I need to be able to advise you on what is out there and threats against your well-being as beloved listeners of the Jordan Harbinger show. This video has been banned on all of the major social media platforms, which, to be honest, I think it's a mistake. I think people with lower critical thinking

ability tend to see things that get banned as evidence of a grand conspiracy being true. Instead of these platforms making a half-hearted attempt to try to protect us from our own stupidity, which is why they've done this. Personally, I think they're should just put warnings and real information on top of or beside these videos to debunk the insane claims made. But that's more work for them, of course. This isn't a discussion of censorship today. This is about debunking bogus health claims that can actually kill you and those around

you if we are negligent on how we respond to them. And of course, these people are doing this for cash. We're going to go through part one of Plandemic and go more or less point by point so that when someone sends you this to watch, or if you know someone who doesn't know, know what to believe and thinks there just might be a kernel of truth in that thing, you can play this in the car with them or send this to them and they can listen to voices of reason who are not just trying to get famous or sell books like the grifters, like the huckster, fraudulent hucksters who are doing this anti-science disservice to humanity in the name of

dollars and fame. I really couldn't despise these people any more than I do. And if you want to know how I network and create great relationships around me, I have a free course that you can use for business or personal reasons. A lot of people are using it for the job hunt right now. If you've been laid off, I feel you. Check out our six-minute networking course. It is free.

It always will be free. It's not enter your credit card free. It's just free free. That's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And by the way, most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. All right.

Now let's debunk Pandemic. I want to say thanks for joining me because it's funny. You know, I was at home watching this fake documentary everyone's been sending to me. and sharing around called Plannedemic. And very clever title. It's Planned Demic. I just want to roll a joint up, even just saying,

Plandemic, man. Rarely do I feel such an urgency to get a show out, but this one really bugged me because it's not only pure bullshit, but it's also designed to sell books full of even more BS by this disgraced former scientist

Judy Mikovitz. Now, I say former because you're no longer, in my opinion, a scientist if you are peddling things you know to be false, or if you're just straight out the gate mentally ill and decide that you don't know what reality is anymore, I can't back you as a scientist. And because people who believe this stuff,

they stand to harm others and be harmed themselves by this Judy Mikovic's irresponsible and dangerously terrible advice, which we will go over here in a bit. I don't know where you stand on this, ZDog, but I am not one for censorship. This might be one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while, even on YouTube, which is saying a lot. I mean, you're more or less a YouTuber. You know how much

dumb crap is on YouTube. It's like 90% dumb crap. It's an infinite pool, an unceasing source of dumbness in the universe, like a black hole, like smartness cannot escape from the center, you know? Right. But I agree with you. Censorship is not the answer to this because it actually backfires. The conspiracy theorists actually start to say, well, see, we were right. And the powers that B, aka Google, YouTube, Facebook, Zuckerberg, the conspiracy, are trying to silence us. Well, that's the worst possible outcome. And I've actually talked to YouTube leadership about this and said, you know, the way that you do this is you, maybe you link to credible sources that are also entertaining.

You don't link to the WHO. You link to somebody who's made a video that actually debunks what misinformation is there, you know? Yeah, I agree with that. I know that that's harder for them because then they have to actually consume content. But here's the thing. If they really aren't glued to the dollars they get from bringing people into conspiracy theory rabbit holes, and I think that they are, candidly. But they say they're not.

And if they're not addicted to that sort of rabbit hole money, then they do need to do that. They need to find hot topics and go, okay, this is the kind of thing that we need to point to. Like, look, you can have stupid-ass plannedemic on YouTube, but you need a warning that goes over the bottom with, like, fact checking from actual experts that says, like, this is, patently false. Here's a link to a source that says this is false. Here's a video that debunks this. And then the next thing in the playlist shouldn't be out of the shadows or some other dumb, fake documentary. It should be a video where it's like, hey, that thing you just watched, here's why all the stuff you just heard was garbage. That's exactly it. And I think they don't even understand how their own algorithm works. It's kind of gotten away from them. So the way

the algorithm feeds on this conspiracy rabbit hole. So you click one, it feeds up 30 others. Vaccine misinformation is a great example of this. We've been, working with this since I started doing videos in 2010, you go down a rabbit hole that takes you in a vortex that then creates a bubble of misinformation around you that confirms your pre-existing bias. I mean, there's a reason you're watching that video. You probably have some bias. You don't trust the government. You don't trust pharma. You don't trust corporations. And so as a result, anything that feeds that emotional bias of yours is going to feed your confirmation bias and your desire to be right and your desire to have a tribe around you that it feels like your people. And the

desire to feel exclusive, the desire to feel in control. And so the algorithm loves that because it knows you're going to keep watch and keep clicking. And I don't even think the humans running these algorithms know how these things work. It's almost out of their control. So doing what you're saying is actually harder than it might appear. It's no easy task. I do feel like YouTube has their work cut out for them. And I blame YouTube specifically for the spread of a lot of this misinformation. They've removed Plandemic from YouTube for good reason. Well, well, you know, for good reason. Again, it's censorship, so not really. Yeah. They removed it according to their policies, and for that reason, it's good reason. But for me, I think you should literally be able to put almost anything up there.

Again, you know, back to our earlier point about educating people, not just hiding things that are stupid, because then when people find them, they think they've discovered something instead of just heaping shite into their mouth. That's exactly right. And I think part of the problem is then for someone like myself, say, whose mission is partially to bring rational thought, wisdom, whatever it is, by talking to smart people, because I'm not smart enough to do that. But I can communicate it. I hear you. On YouTube, if you're able to bring wisdom that way, well, what's to stop YouTube from saying, I don't like that wisdom? Like, for example, you know, I took a stance that I thought cloth masks were really dumb because people are using them wrong.

They're putting them over their mouth. They're getting a false sense of security. They're plastering their cell phone to their face. They're wearing them with gloves, touching stuff, then touching their face and their wallet and their purse. And so I went out and said, you know, I think having people wear cloth masks, it might backfire. Now, well, that in itself could get you ban from YouTube, even though I think if everybody wore surgical grade masks, which we can't because we don't have enough PPE, we would actually really bend the curve quite dramatically, but we don't have that ability. And I say that in the video, but you worry if YouTube's relying on, you know, what are there measures of misinformation? Now, I think we can talk today a little bit of two about

how do you determine what is a conspiracy theory without validity? How do you apply critical thinking to watching any video? And I think that's where you and I agree on this pandemic thing. And man, people were sending it to us and we're like, are you high? Like, what do you have to be smoking to think this is legit, right? I would like to go through some of the points in here because I want people who are like, oh, well, they said this is going to debunk Plandemic because I'm going to call this episode debunking Plandemic. And we can go through critical thinking ideas and things like that as well later in the show,

and I think we should. But I really want to dig into why Plandemic itself was actually just complete horse crap. And this former scientist, again, I say former because she's officially just abandoned scientific reasoning and traded whole hog her ethics for money because she's got her stupid book on Amazon right now, which is just nonsense. She makes absolutely head-scratching assertions about this virus. For instance, that it's quote-unquote activated by face masks, which is ridiculous. You don't, correct me if I'm wrong, doctor, but you don't activate a virus. You certainly don't do it by wearing a mask. If your body's been exposed to it, then you have antibodies or you don't. You

don't reactivate it by having it live in your mask. It's not alive anyway. This is one of the most perplexing statements that she makes that masks somehow make this disease worse. And you can theorize what she meant, but it's kind of mind reading. And you're reading the mind of someone who is absolutely perplexingly confused about this topic in immunology. I think what she was saying is you have the virus in your nose and in your mouth and you're putting it into a mask and then reinhaling it and reinfecting yourself. That is abject nonsense. sense because you already are infected, breathing your own inoculum, your own population of virus back in, is not going to change anything and you're already firing up an immune response to it already.

It's just, it's nonsensical from a scientific standpoint. Now, not everybody would understand that. So you do need to give the public sort of critical scientific knowledge, like, okay, no, that's nonsense. So how, you know, you should be suspicious when she's saying something that goes so contrary to what the public health officials have said, but that degree of skepticism or suspicion isn't really there in the public. They want to believe these ideas. Right. And also, look, if I said, oh, my God, but if I breathe out a germ and it goes into a mask and then I breathe it back in, aren't I reinfecting myself? And you might go, well, no. But if I'm purporting to be one of the foremost global experts on infectious diseases or HIV or CFS, which Judy Mikeovitz says she knows all about

because she researched it, and now she's claiming to be an expert when it comes to COVID-19. You should know that. You should have learned that in like the first or second year of medical school, or at least during your residence. If you're one of the foremost research scientists of our generation, you should know that that's complete garbage. Like my wife and I might not know that, oh yeah, you know, your body will breathe that out and then you breathe it in and it doesn't matter because you're already building antibodies.

It's your own immune response. Okay, that makes sense. That's something that a layman might not know. But if you're seeing somebody who's supposed to be an expert on a subject making lay mistakes, that should be a huge red flag. And Judy Mikovits goes on to make all kinds of wild mistakes and accusations, one of which she says that Anthony Fauci, one of, by the way, the only voices of reason in media these days, because it's his job to keep us all calm

and to make sure that we know what's actually going on. She's accusing him of being responsible for the deaths of millions of people during the early years of HIV AIDS. And the video, this pandemic thing, claims Mikeovich was part of the team that discovered HIV, revolutionized HIV treatment, and that she was jailed without charges

for her scientific positions. Not one of those things is true. Not one of them is true. Not a single thing in that statement is true. And what's fascinating is all this is easily researchable. So websites have already debunk this. And the idea, so she was a laboratory technician. which is not, it's somebody who helps.

I was a research assistant at Berkeley in molecular biology when I was an undergraduate and I co-published a paper on genetics in Drosophila melanagaster, the Fruitfly. Now, if I went out and said, I'm a world innovator in Fruitfly, Integran Wing, you know, cell-cell adhesion,

even that would be insanity because I was basically a technician on a team that did a lot of work. In her case, it's complete confabulous, she's just making this stuff up and aggrandizing herself because if you're trying to sell an idea, a conspiratorial idea, credentials and credibility or perceived credibility matters a lot in the tribe you're trying to convince. And so she makes

herself bigger than she is. The Fauci thing where she's attacking Fauci, it's perfect because he's too big to actually bother trying to defend against crazy baseless charges, even though he did send an email to Snopes and saying, I have no idea what this woman's talking about. I have no record of any email where I threatened her with being, you know, fired if she speaks out or not publishing a paper. It's really almost a kind of strain of mental illness that she's displaying. But again, how does the public detect that? Well, you've got to turn to reliable sources and go, okay, well, what are people that we trust on this actually think? Well, they've published a billion reasons why this is all just made up.

The movie, Plandemic promises to expose the, quote, expose the scientific and political elite who run the scam that is our global health system. So there's no global health system. I think most people know that. And even if we give sort of charitable interpretation of what that phrase means, this presupposes that there is a scientific community aligned with a political community that is both sort of Illuminati in nature and they're running a quote unquote scam to keep people down, which is a lot harder to believe than governments are kind of incompetent and have mixed responses to disease outbreaks. You nailed it because the latter, look, I've worked in, I was at 10 years at Stanford as a hospital doctor.

I've worked in medicine since 1999 when I graduated UCSF medical school. I am deep in the medical industrial complex. And I am the first to tell you that it is a complete shit show. Like there's absolutely not a shred of a system there. There's not a shred of coordination. Leadership is totally disjointed. It's a non-system that has trouble tying its own laces. And that's why we have such bad outcomes in this country.

because we don't have a health system that's capable of pulling off a conspiracy of the magnitude that this woman talks about, which is why I think most healthcare professionals watch the beginning of that video and cope. Yeah. I know these people. They're not capable of pulling this off because human systems are fallible. Right. Like Fauci's a smart guy.

I've been on calls with Fauci during Ebola. He reached out to influencers. We had calls like, how do we talk to the public about Ebola? I found him to be rational, calm, very smart. and actually was very good at diffusing the fear around Ebola, which, again, if he's there to profit from vaccines and things like that, he would have been like, guys, this is a mess, we're all going to die, we need to do something, we need to work on a vaccine right now.

He was like, guys, this has a very low reproductive number when treated correctly. Here's, we need to talk to people and diffuse some of this fear. So, again, anybody in the loop of this, who is, again, who we ought to be looking to for the second opinion when you see something that you're concerned about, would tell you right away, man, this smells of crazy sauce, within the first 10 seconds. Exactly. Exactly. And I think a lot of people don't necessarily have, maybe it's a life experience or expertise to think critically about a lot of this stuff. But most of us don't pause to parse the language that we're using or that they are using to describe this.

So if I see something that says, we're going to expose the scientific and political elite who run the scam that is our global health system, I usually go, yeah, that sounds like some kind a conspiratorial BS, like, Sandy Hook never happened. The frogs are turning gay. Like, that's some Alex Jones garbage. I mean, I still watched Plandemic because, you know, I want to see what people are looking at. But yeah, within the first few seconds, I was like, okay, Jordan, don't close your mind up. Watch the whole thing, but this is just absolute crazy.

And then, of course, the credentials of the guy running it are like father, activist and interviewer. And I'm like, mm, not credentials. Right. Not credentials. Actually, it's interesting. This cuts to the heart of what differentiates a conspiracy from a conspiracy theory, right? So here's a film. Most conspiracies that are actually, you know, have been figured out, like, say, the Volkswagen diesel, like emission conspiracy.

Like that one where, like, this company really hid the fact that their diesel engines were polluting like heck, but they fudged everything. And how was that caught? It was caught by engineers who looked at data and go, this doesn't add up. So actually parsing through the data, Watergate. caught by journalists. It's usually either a journalist, a real credible whistleblower, along with the press, who outs things because it's in their interest to do that. Actually, talk about clicks. If you out a real conspiracy, that's a lot of juice, right? Right. So you're actually incentivized to do it. But conspiracy theories are more often

some uncredible person on the internet who has 100% skepticism of anything the authorities or the establishment says. And it's that 100% skepticism that should make you skeptical because a scientist skepticism is appropriate. It's like, I don't know until you prove me wrong. Oh, I see evidence now. Okay, I changed my mind. You're right. Good example is with this coronavirus thing myself. I'm a conditioned doctor, meaning I know, okay, someone has a low blood oxygen level. You put them on a ventilator quickly because you need to relieve the stress and make sure their organs don't fail because that's how we're trained. Well, early on in this thing, there was a video from a Dr. Cameron Kyle Siddell, he's in New York, he's on the front lines, and he's like, guys, this is a

different disease. We're seeing that we shouldn't be intubating people so quickly and this and this and this. And you watch the quality of the videos crappy. It looks like a conspiracy video. It's getting tons of views. People are sending it to you going, you see what they're saying? It's all a scam, man. And I watched it, and my spider sense tingled because I said, oh, you know, I've seen so many of these conspiracy videos. It's nonsense. But then I watched carefully, and I said, okay, let me look at his credentials. He's on the front lines. He's an ICU, you know, critical care. doc. He actually knows people that I actually respect so I can reach out to them. I can look at the data and then watch. And what ended up happening is he was actually right. For certain patients, we were doing

them harm by intubating early. And that's now becoming accepted scientific wisdom. That's how science works. Show us evidence. Show us data. Show us numbers. And we'll make it work. Now with pandemic, immediately you have 100% skepticism on the part of the audience. There's nothing that you can show them. Everything we do here today, they're going to put up walls and say, well, you're in the pocket of the Illuminati or you're paid by big farm. You're a big farm a shill because you're a doctor, and I'm a big pharma shill because they'll have to figure out a reason for why a podcaster who works from home and is underwear and just wears a button up shirt for videos is somehow a big pharma shill. I'll let them do the leg work on that one. I'm not going to give them anything else to go on.

But it's ridiculous. Right. They're going to have to sort of figure out why we might be biased. I think, though, I will sort of debate you on one point. I think you're right. The majority of people who watch something like Plandemic, or a huge number of them anyway, are going to go, I believe this, because I already wanted to believe this. I already had some of those beliefs and this confirms them, so that makes me feel good. But there's still a large band of people when anything goes this viral, no pun intended, where people that you know that are, this is a little disrespectful, but I'm going to say it anyway, you're kind of gullible slash your dumb friends on Facebook who share this stuff. They are not necessarily Illuminati believers. They don't necessarily

watch Info Wars or all this garbage online. They got this because somebody shared it with them who shared it with them and they don't have enough medical knowledge and they go, huh, I wonder if this is true. I wonder if there's any, like some of it doesn't seem true, but maybe some of it is true. I don't really know. It's well produced. You know, they'll say something like that. The reason we're making this right now is because I want people who listen to my show who are rational, skeptical thinkers most of the time to go, let's take a drive and listen to this, or why don't you listen to this, and it refutes or watch this, and it refutes some of the points in Plandemic, just keep your mind open on this. And there's a lot of people sending it to me that go, I know that this is probably bunk.

I just don't know how to debunk it, and I want to do that because I get a feeling that it's not true because of the claim she's making. So that's what we're delivering, hopefully here right now, is knowledge and why this stuff is false. And we'll go into some more points. here in a second. Conspiracy walks love this stuff because it seems like credible people are starting to believe the things that they believe. What Judy Mikovits is actually doing, she's using these people because she knows that they are gullible. She's using them for fame and cash because she just happens to be selling a book that's anti-vax right now and just happens to be debunking the big pharma conspiracy and goes in this documentary. She also goes and speaks on these, she's on the circuit of

crazy people, you know, selling books and speaking at conventions for cash. You know, this is a person who is disgraced and cannot work in laboratories because she's known as a quack and as a fraud. So what do you do when you're a quack and a fraud? You lean in. You lean into that ish. And you go, you know what? I'm unhinged. I'm going to work with people who don't care. And that's what she's doing. You kind of nailed something real important here, which is that conspiracy theorists always will put forth that there's a financial reason often for these conspiracies. Right. But they have enough cognitive dissonance.

They're able to ignore vast contradictions in their own case. For example, Judy Mikovits, she's selling the book. So she has a huge contradiction right there, a huge conflict right there. She's selling you something. Right. As is the documentary maker, right? He's selling you this documentary. That's how they do their thing.

And so that's a huge sort of disconnect. The other thing you can do then is go, all right, if you're thinking critically, look for ideas in their reasoning where, and by the way, Jordan, we don't teach this stuff in school. We teach memorization. We teach to the test. And so we can't really blame our dumb friends on Facebook, even though we look at them and go, what's wrong with you? We had maybe we're lucky and had some training and critical thinking, but they weren't able to do that

because if you did, you could look at the video and go, look, they're saying contradictory things. she's saying Wuhan coronavirus was created in a lab and escaped or was released from a lab, and that's causing COVID. Then in the next part of the video, she says, no, what's causing this syndrome is actually vaccination. It's the vaccines in Italy that are causing this syndrome. So these are contradictory incompatible statements, right? So you can immediately go, well, then how can I believe anything she says when she contradicted herself within the course of the video?

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That link is in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show, just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash subscribe. Subscribing to the show is absolutely free. It just means that you get all of the latest episodes downloaded automatically to your podcast player so you don't miss a single thing. And now, back to the show. What they're hoping is, well, you can hold these two conflicting ideas in your mind, or you just forgot about one.

Like, when I speak to a lot of people who are supposed to be well-versed in this stuff, they can never really bring up concrete examples. They just tell me to go watch the thing that they watched because they're getting a feeling that that was persuasive. They can't actually then turn around and persuade. And that's a big red flag. Like if somebody says, oh, you know, this, this, this and this, I'll go, okay, tell me why. And if they go, well, you got to watch this whole documentary. And then I watched the documentary and I go, what in there was convincing? And they go, well, you know, it's just like watch it again.

No, if you actually don't even know why you have formed your beliefs other than you feel in generally kind of persuaded by this thing you watched on YouTube, you don't have a rational basis for those beliefs at all. And what you, I think, are pointing out, which is quite clear, and this is something we advocate on my show all the time, this idea that we are emotional, unconsciously driven creatures based on beliefs that are conditioned, genetic, you know, whether they're political, religious, ideological belief.

We're emotional creatures with a little bit of rationality that evolved recently. And, you know, Jonathan Haidt, the psychologist, I think you've had him on the show, talks about this paradigm of the elephant, this unconscious emotional creature that's big and conditioned and unconscious. And the writer, the little person on top

who's trying to ride, that's our neocortex, our frontal cortex, is trying to reason. But we seem to think that that reason overrides this big elephant, but it doesn't. It doesn't. This guy is the elephant's press secretary. He's designed to actually take what you feel, find data to support it, or take data that actually opposes it and spin it in a way that supports it. That's why your friends are like, hey, check out plundemic, bro, see? And you're like, yeah, I did.

See? Yeah. And they're like, yeah, see, but you have totally different beliefs. But they spin it to support what they already believe. Exactly. So as a skeptic, I go, okay, tell me what exactly was convincing. So I dug in more because I was like, well, what parts of what she's saying is true? So I started to look again at her credentials. And Mikeovitz co-authored a paper in science, which is a very reputable scientific journal. So at first I was like, wow, okay, she was in science. And she suggested that an obscure agent named xenropic murine leukemia virus-related virus, which is XMRV. So let's just call it XMRV because the rest of it's a mouthful, caused something called chronic fatigue syndrome. which, what is that? That's a disease that people are a condition that we haven't quite figured out, correct?

So chronic fatigue syndrome is one of those diseases that when you mention it to both physicians and patients, they go, because it's real symptoms. It costs billions of dollars a year in lost productivity. It often comes on suddenly. We have no idea, no idea what causes it. It's characterized by really bad fatigue and sleep that doesn't actually regenerate.

you. So really abnormal sleep, some aches and pains, some imbalance when you stand up, different dizziness symptoms, things like that. But it's really tough because all your lab tests are often normal. Your physical exam is normal. And so people often blow these patients off as crazy. Right. They're not crazy. Something's going on. We don't know what it is. It may be a result of emotional trauma, but that doesn't mean the patient is crazy. It means they have a syndrome we haven't figured out. Now, one of the main reasons people love conspiracy theories is they want certainty. They want something to blame. And in this case, she comes up and says, hey, there's this mouse virus that is associated with chronic fatigue syndrome. She publishes it in science, and everyone's

like XMRV. Oh my God, we finally have a cause. It's an infection. I bet we could take antivirals. People were taking HIV medication for this thing who had. So you think these things are harmless, they're not. Now, I don't think she intentionally did this, but the scientific process then rolls on. when people tried to replicate the study, they said, oh, this is important, and they couldn't. So explain what replication is, because that sounds like a fancy word for a lot of people that just rolls right by in one ear and out the other. But replication is important. This is the key to good science. It is. Replication means that you can do it again. So you do a study, you do a trial, and then you get results. Well, okay, if that's an important finding,

someone should try to do it again to make sure it wasn't the result of chance or error or fraud, something else that could actually confound the results. And this is how the scientific process should work. It doesn't always work this well, but when it does, in this case, it did because people said, this is a big deal. So then they searched and other scientists could not replicate, they could not find this virus in chronic fatigue syndrome patients. And it was determined through a series of experiments that it was a contaminant in the cells they were using. It was not the cause of chronic fatigue. And a new paper came out in 2011 that Judy Michaelvitz actually said, oh, yeah, I guess it is an XMRV, which, by the way, she changed her tune later. At that point, something

remarkable happened, which is science retracted the original paper. And for people who don't know what retraction is, what it means is it gets published and peer reviewed, other people review it, They go, yeah, okay, this is worthy of publication in science. Big deal. Goes out in the world, becomes part of the literature, gets cited by other scientists when they're doing their own research, guides research in certain directions. Well, at this point, science realizes, wait, this was a screw up because it wasn't replicatable, it was a contaminant.

So we don't want this influencing other scientists in the wrong direction. We are going to publicly say this paper is retracted. We're going to remove it from our database. And we're going to say why. We're going to either apologize or not. We're going to explain what's going on. That happens. There's a website called Retraction Watch where you can look at articles that have been retracted.

The most famous one is Andrew Wakefield, a physician, former physician in Great Britain, who had a paper that said autism is associated with MMR vaccination. That was retracted due to fraud. So it was actually fraudulent. And in Maitavits' case, it was just sloppy science, just shoddy science. Sloppy bad science. So it turned out she'd actually sort of made this virus by accidentally, we think, accidentally contaminating her own samples in the lab. People might go, oh, she did it on purpose. Most scientists are not

going to do something like this on purpose because it is so easy to get caught. And she, of course, later on did get, well, caught if it was an accident. I guess you don't get caught. She later on was humiliated by this whole thing because they retract the paper. She has to come out and say this was bad science. And her own lab tries to replicate it. It's not like, oh, we got the answer and some other guys disproved you and they worked for the government. Her own lab was like, yeah, our methodology was not working. We did it again. We spent three million of our own dollars, and it didn't work.

And then she was like, yeah, this was problematic, my bad. And then later on, she goes, cuckoo. She has a dramatic break, well, she was already cuckoo, I think. But she has a dramatic breakup with her lab. They end up filing a lawsuit against her in 2011 for allegedly stealing laboratory notebooks, stealing proprietary information on her laptop, flash drives, in her personal email account. She gets arrested in California.

on felony charges because she freaking ran away, fugitive from justice, she was jailed for several days. Charges are later dropped, but I think we can start to see somebody who's a little unhinged here. It wasn't, hey, you can't talk about this secret thing. It's like, hey, you're fired because you are crappy at your job. And then she's like, I'm taking all the equipment I need to work in my garage. No.

So she gets arrested. And then suddenly being an unhinged mess of a clown in the conspiracy community, well, that's just what the doctor ordered. Hashtag dead jokes. You know, all I could think of when you're telling that story is like the trailer for Plandemic as it should play out in movie theaters like this summer, you know, and you see Judy Mikovic's running in slow motion from the lab and the lab explodes behind them. She's holding all the notebooks.

So here's the thing, though. This was something when I watched Plandemic with a critical mind. I said, wait, she's saying she was arrested and thrown in jail without any charges. Right. She says, I was charged with nothing. Chargers nothing. Now, this should be a red flag because this is searchable. So in America, at least my understanding is you're supposed to be charged with a crime if you're arrested. So that already made my spider sense tangle and go, wait, how can that be? And that wasn't the first, like,

just minute of the video, right, arrested with no charges. I'm like, this doesn't sound right. And then you do a quick Google search and you realize, no, the charges were she stole notebooks and laboratory proprietary equipment from a lab she was working for, which, by the way, is in Reno. I don't know if you've been to Reno, Jordan, but it is not a hotbed of biomedical research. No. So already, you know, anybody working in the space is like, wait, but wait, but what? And so, again, you should start asking these questions, just thinking critically. Now, the thing is, you may actually have a bias towards this film in terms of your politics.

So you may say, I am tired of the liberal nanny state trying to tell me to wear masks and that this thing is going to close my business and all of that. That's fine. You can have that bias. That's your elephant, right? But then to allow it to blind you to evidence that's clear, that's very, very tough. And the truth is you can still have your feelings about that and find evidence to support that while accepting that this woman is cuckoo crazy. By the way, one thing you said, was it intentional or not?

I actually have a firm belief that these people are not intentionally trying to fool people. I think they have deep mental illness where it's almost like a Munchausen's by proxy. They're unconsciously seeking either attention or fame or money, and they do these things blind to the fact that they're lying because she can lie with a straight face meeting. She believes her lies. And I think one reason I think humans actually evolved to be able to lie very well because they have to deceive members of their own tribe.

The only way you can do that is to believe your own BS. And I think she does. I see this. There are other YouTubers I think that are going through this right now. We can talk offline about that because I don't want to name-cha. I don't want to derail this conversation, But I see this happening now where you see somebody who says, 5G causes coronavirus, and then you get 5 million views,

and normally your videos get 5,000 views, and you're just like, you know what, that sounds good, and I'm going to buy a yacht. All I have to do is convince myself that that's not harmful for society, and I'm going to be rich for the rest of my life. I can see that being an easy sell on yourself. This is so interesting to me because the incentives, where humans are often only as good as our incentives,

And what I noticed, too, this is very seductive, Jordan, because look, when the pandemic thing came out and a thousand people sent it to me, my first instinct was, oh, this is total rubbish. I can't believe how dumb people are being, right? And then my second instinct was, I should do a point by point debunking of this video rationally and carefully. And then I said, but wait, that's a lot of work. Other people are already doing it online. I'm just going to go and tell people how I feel. And I did a video called, you know, why pandemic is BS or whatever on you. YouTube. Three million views later, right? I'm like, this is like the emperor saying, unleash your hatred, right? It's just so easy to just say, people are dumb. These conspiracy theories are dumb if you believe this you're an idiot, which is basically what I said. And it's so easy because it's polarizing. And what it does is it's confirmation for the side that agrees with you. And it's just, oh, let's all pile in on the side that doesn't. And that video has more like 60% dislikes on a three million video. They're all from the conservative. BASBURFs who believe Plandemic.

Sure. So it's easy. It's easy views and add revenue and all that. But then I went and did a follow-it-up because I have to live with myself. It's kind of like, are we doing good in the world? Now, if you're a young YouTuber and you're trying to make a living and you know, you have all these different allegiances, it creates a kind of moral distress. But we do what we think is right at the time. And sometimes that's making money, which I think can be incredibly harmful. I agree. I agree. Going back to the Plandemic movie, itself. In Plandemic, they talk about her arrest and they show this video of a SWAT team raiding a house. And you're supposed to think that this is her getting arrested. The news

footage company that actually shot the footage has denounced Plandemic saying, this is from an unrelated SWAT raid. This is B-roll from a completely different thing. And of course, she was charged with theft, not charged with nothing as she tries to claim. Bear in mind, Mikevitz has never published anything scientific again. Not one thing. So she starts saying her old hypothesis about CFS is actually still valid, despite her admitting evidence that was contaminated, no other team around the world being able to reproduce her results. She starts saying it's all a big cover up. And then she goes one further and goes, you know what? Vaccines cause autism, which makes no sense because one, we all know that's not true to begin with.

There's no evidence for this other than Andrew Wakefield's fraud. And two, she is not a vaccine researcher and never was. She's just in my mind jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon because she's out of the job. She's disgraced. Her reputation's in the toilet. She sees the potential for a boatload of cash bilking people in the conspiracy and anti-vax community and goes, you know what? Again, to our earlier point, I'm going to lean in.

So in case you still need more information before you stop believing a single word of what this woman says, we can go point by point on a bunch of other stuff. Because Science Magazine goes and they said, okay, we published your original study and retracted it. This is not a random health website. This is a scientific journal. And they basically took down pandemic because they're like, ugh, we kind of created this monster.

We got to debunk her revisionist history. Her 1991 doctoral thesis revolutionized the treatment of HIV AIDS. That's what she says. And they're just like, no, it wasn't impactful at all. And grifters use revisionist history, as you'd mentioned before. So she makes all these studies before she got ripped down and says like, oh, this causes this and this causes that. CFS is caused by this.

A lot of people, especially in conspiracy communities, will say, a study says something when it does not because they know that the other people who are listening are not going to read that study. Yeah, that's exactly right. They're not going to follow up. And you can look at Judy Mikovitz and go, okay, well, then let's just really look at what she's saying because like you said, she hasn't published. And actually, from a standpoint of pure compassion, I feel for this woman before I realize

that she's actually harming lives by telling people don't wear masks and this kind of thing and that vaccines are dangerous, right? That's a harm in the world that she's going to cost lives saying that because people believe this garbage. But going back to just her, it's kind of like, well, here's a woman who tried. She put out a paper. I think she did it with good intent. It gets retracted.

That is a stab wound in the heart for a scientist, right? And her career was derailed. And I think that was maybe, and again, I'm mind reading here, which you shouldn't do. But you could imagine from a place of love and look at her and go, what a ordeal that must have been if she didn't intend it to be. And now she's gone full Batman's villain crazy. As plausible an explanation is not. Now, one thing I would say, too, relating to that, I just made up an alternative path for her.

Conspiracy theories suffer from something that Scott Adams is called a failure of imagination. So you can say, okay, you know what? Well, Fauci is running a conspiracy to make extra money from vaccine patents, and that's the only explanation for why he's pushing a vaccine for COVID-19 right now. Well, that's a simple failure of imagination because there's about a thousand other reasons that Fauci would be promoting a vaccine. but you have not brought those to the table, and that's a cardinal sign of a BS conspiracy theory

is there's no opposing viewpoint in it. They just don't give air to any other alternative explanations, and this is a good example of that. Mikevitz also goes and says, while Anthony Fauci directed this cover-up, everyone's paid off, millions of dollars in funding from Tony Fauci and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, all these investigators, they committed fraud,

and they're being paid big time, she says. There's no evidence for any fraud. there's no evidence of any cover-up. There's no evidence of any payments. There's no evidence of any funding from his institute. No one has been charged with fraud. No one's been charged with anything other than her, actually. So this is just like classic redirection garbage from Judy Mikovitz.

Yeah, it's complete nonsense. And this stuff is, again, it requires a suspension of disbelief that someone in government wouldn't leak this, that it wouldn't come out in the press, that this guy was some sinister figure and it's just clear that she's grasping and trying to support her discredited beliefs. And again, if you apply that critical thinking of the video, you see it from the beginning because they start the video with, I was wrongfully convicted or wrongfully imprisoned without charges. So already you know, okay, this is just, it's being spun a certain way to try to portray this woman simultaneously as a hero and a victim, which is a cardinal characteristic of conspiracy theories.

So the conspiracy theory hero is both the hero trying to enlighten the world and a victim of a massive cover of persecution, whatever. And it's a pattern that you can see time and time again. She later blames Fauci for millions of HIV deaths because he supposedly like has patents and is profiting from this. And it's like, look, you're blaming the head of CDC for taking credit for something that you say you discovered. She says that she discovered this at age 25 when she was a lab tech and not a researcher. So going back to your point about revisionist history, she's a lab tech. She's literally like washing pipettes and moving stuff around and doing it. She's probably documenting things for sure as a lab assistant, but she's not a researcher per se.

She did not discover a damn thing. Yeah, I think that's accurate to say. And whatever she did do, whatever signs she did do has been overblown. It did not have a big impact on HIV research. To accuse Fauci of costing millions of lives for HIV is pretty crazy. Now, Fauci was always kind of early on pushing for HIV vaccine, which never. came to fruition, but everybody was trying it in those days and it was tough. And, you know, it's really, there's so much stuff that she says in that video. For example, there's never been a vaccine against

a retrovirus that's worked. Okay, what about measles? Yeah. Mumps, polio. It's like you could go through a list of, so this is easy stuff, right? What else did she say? She said Italians are dying because they have hyper-inflammatory states. They're older. And they were vaccinated with a four-component dog-based influenza vaccine. All right. Yes, they were vaccinated with a quadravalent, meaning there are four different targets

that the vaccine targets for flu. And actually, we have that in the U.S. too. It's a better flu vaccine because it targets more potential flu strains. And yes, it was grown in a clone of dog cells, right? And that's another mechanism of actually producing the virus that causes influenza.

and then the next step in that is to attenuate the virus. What that means is you make it inactive. So it's not attenuated. Sorry, with flu. I misspoke. It's inactivating the virus. So you actually take these virus particles, you kill them so they don't cause disease. That's why when people say, I got the flu from the flu shot, they're just making

stuff up. They either had bad luck. They got flu despite the vaccination or they had a cold or something nearby their flu shot. And it takes two weeks for flu shot typically to kick in. So, yes, it was grown in dog cells. And she's saying dogs have a ton of coronavirus, therefore getting this shot, infected these people with coronavirus, and now they're getting sick. Okay, this is crazy on several levels.

One is by inactivating virus, you kill every virus in the population there. These are dead viruses. So even if there were dog coronaviruses, which this is a cell culture, not a living dog that you're growing it in, you would kill those viruses. So they wouldn't have any power to infect you. And it's just absolutely crazy because in the same video, you, you're just absolutely crazy. because in the same video, she says, no, actually, this coronavirus was released from a Wuhan lab. So the internal inconsistencies, the scientific inconsistencies, all can easily be debunked.

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And now back to the show. Mikevitz goes on to say they'll be killing, they, the scientific community, will kill millions of people as they already have with their vaccine. She's pandering to the anti-vax crowd. There's no vaccine currently on the schedule for any RNA virus that works. As you mentioned, that's BS.

Measles, mumps, rebella, rabies, yellow fever, Ebola. These are all RNA viruses that have vaccinated. that are on the market that work well. But to your point here, vaccines have not killed millions of people. They have saved millions of people. If someone gets in a car crash and passes away and they were wearing their seatbelt, we don't go, well, that seatbelt killed them. This claim is so ridiculous. And this is the type of nonsense that takes me from, well, this person is just mentally ill to, oh, oh, oh, okay, she knows what she's doing and what she's telling, she knows that what

she's telling people is false, and she simply does not care because she has the ability to parse this critical thinking. She just doesn't give a crap about the people that she's talking to. She doesn't care if you get vaccinated. She wants to make money from selling her crap. Yeah, I think you're right. I think what she's found in the anti-vax population is an audience that's sympathetic to her other crazy ideas. So she's then glommed onto that, right? Because no legitimate scientist who is worth their stripes in anything has profoundly anti-vaccine belief. They may say, there are side effects, and we have to look at risk and benefit, and that's fine. And one thing you mentioned about seatbelts is an interesting thing when you're talking to

anti-vaccine activists. And by the way, there's one thing to be on the fence, right, be a mother who's concerned because of all the misinformation online and you're concerned about government. It's one thing. It's another thing to be a hardcore, I call them anti-vax cult member. So these are hardcore conspiracy theorists, and you cannot disabuse them of their beliefs no matter what. So no amount of evidence will change them, which means they're beyond hope, which means at that point you block them on Twitter, you personally de-platform them. So you say, no, I can't argue with you. I'm going to continue to talk about information that will influence people on the fence.

And as far as seatbelts go, it's interesting because the anti-vaccine advocates say, well, vaccines have killed people rarely. One in a million will have a severe reaction to a vaccine, right? So that's the equivalent of saying, well, one in a million times when a car crashes, it's the seatbelt that actually causes the harm. It decapitates you or it causes harm to a child. So what they then, what scientists do is go, well, that's a risk worth taking

because more often it will save your life and the risk is so tiny and you can't predict where the risk is. So it's better on the whole to be compassionate and wear your seatbelt. But what the anti-vax stance will say, this is distorted conspiracy thinking is, no, we need now to tell people

stop wearing your seatbelts. Because it's a choice and there's a chance, however small, there's a chance that your child will die from a seatbelt. That's crazy and dangerous. And that's what these cult people are doing. Exactly. And then they go, well, freedom, man. Something about free.

Because it's like, well, my logical arguments aren't working because they're garbage. And so I'm just going to say my body, my choice or something like that and just say freedom. And like, you know, Bill Gates isn't going to inject me with nanorobots. Oh, wait, sorry, I sound crazy again. No, no, no, no, freedom. Something about freedom. And it's like, all right, whatever. And look, the seatbelt thing, if you want to kill yourself by not wearing a seatbelt, maybe you should be free to do that.

But you're not free to infect my old neighbors and parents and family because you're like, masks are bad for you because I saw a pandemic. Like, no, take your dirty ass home and stay there. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I think one of the problems Jordan overall, and this is more philosophical issue as we go point by point through this video is we in Western medicine have failed profoundly at developing a trusting relationship with our patients in the face of all this misinformation. And part of the reason is we no longer have the time to spend with our patients to talk to them, to get to know them, to develop trust, to go to their house, to exchange a chicken for our services. Instead, it's this massive industrialization and commodification of us where we have 10 minutes to see the patient and 20 minutes taking to document in this electronic cash register, they call a health record. And that sucks the soul out of us. So we become kind of a-holes. The patients then go, I'm not being heard, but I am being heard in natural news or Health Nut News, these communities on Facebook where they hear that I'm concerned and they have answers for me that are black and white. Vaccines are bad, whereas the doctor says, oh, the risk is very, very small, the benefits. No, they're saying there's nothing but risk. So it's much easier to

wrap my head around a black and white answer that fits my belief of liberty versus oppression, my body, my right, my children. There's nothing wrong with having that belief, but applying distorted critical thinking to it, that's where the harm comes in, I think. Agree. Another claim that I think is dangerous that she's making, she says, why would you close the beach? You've got sequences in the soil and in the sand. You've got healing microbes in the ocean and in the saltwater. I'm going to be generous here. It's unclear on what she means by sand or soil sequences. Sequences of what? What does she mean? Sequences. There's no evidence that microbes in the ocean, sand or anything, can heal COVID-19. You can definitely spread it by being with a bunch of people on the beach. This sounds to me like dog whistle bullshit for people that believe

nature can magically heal anything. And this is classic pseudoscience thinking. We call it the appeal to ancient wisdom. We sort of say, ooh, the Aztecs had this thing that could cure this disease that you have that has been since the dawn of time. Like if you have a child that's born with a disability, you know, you do this and this and this. And it's like, oh, they had ancient wisdom that big pharma has tried to eradicate from our knowledge base. And it's like, no, we had wives tales that never did anything and sometimes caused more harm than good. And we don't do them anymore because we have science and medicine now. Yeah, exactly right. This beach thing that she says, and I think I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt here and say when she says sequences, she's talking about viral DNA or RNA sequences. Right. That's why I said I'll be generous with it. We'll be generous. We'll be as generous as we can here. This is what she's doing. She's making this argument. And by the way, this is where it becomes a public health threat because she's basically telling people go to the beach, which we know from our considerable data pool now about how COVID-19 is transmitted, that being closer than six feet and in a crowded public location,

would be bad. Now, beach would be lower risk because you're outdoors. There's UV radiation. You can distance yourself. So I'm not saying don't go to the beach, but obey whatever ordinances are out there. But here's what she's saying. No, no, no. There are other microbes at the beach that will change your own microbiome to allow you to develop immunity and fight off this coronavirus. Now, this is an interesting gambit because she's conflating. She's mixing two scientific principles here that are actually real, that our microbiome, in other words, our own body's collection of microorganisms does affect our health, and that there's something called the hygiene hypothesis, which says, as we've sterilized our environment and become more clean, we're seeing more autoimmune disease,

we're seeing more allergies because our immune system is going haywire, not getting the usual inputs that it becomes used to, and it starts amping up. Now, this is, again, just a theory, but she's pulling these in with enough, sewing enough doubt, with then pure pseudoscience, which is, well, coronavirus sequences on the beach can help fight regular coronavirus, which is nonsense crazy. And that's what makes it really dangerous is the mixing of a little bit of science with a ton of pseudoscience with a 100% certainty. So she's just like, well, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and she says it directly to her face, black and white. Never trust anyone who says something that black. Even us, if we're saying, no, 100% vaccines are safe,

that's not true. They'll always be a small risk with any medication. So you have to to ask those questions, but at the same time, you look at her, she's 100% certain. She also says some ridiculousness about the interviewer in this documentary and pandemic goes, do we have any idea of where this occurred? Well, I mean, viruses occur in different areas. We have forensic biologists that look for this. But she says, oh, yeah, I'm sure it occurred between North Carolina Laboratory, Fort Dietrich, the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases and the Wuhan Laboratory. Bear in mind, she's never worked at any of these places. She has no real idea of what goes on in there.

She just says, yeah, I'm sure it happened there. No evidence given, of course, because then you'd have to prove that you're not freaking crazy. And then she goes another step further, and she says, the coronavirus was somehow cooked up in a collusion between United States government labs and Chinese researchers. And then the narrator voice somehow suggests that Anthony Fauci is somehow involved in cooking up coronaviruses. She also says she taught, and I don't know what you're kind of air quotes you need for this,

We taught Ebola cells in a U.S. Army laboratory at Fort Dietrich how to infect human cells in 1999. Effectively. So, like, she claims now that she taught Ebola cells how to infect humans, which there's no evidence for this. There's no evidence that she did that. And also, wait a minute, until we taught them? So are you saying that you, Mikevitz, are partially responsible for 11,300 deaths from the Ebola outbreak? So you did that? But your claim makes no sense, because the first recorded claims.

of Ebola, human infection of Ebola, were in freaking 1976 when you were nowhere near even being allowed to go into a lab. Come on. You know, Jordan, she meant the royal wee. Okay. She means the we industrial complex. Yeah, no, this is crazy talk. So like you said, 1976, Ebola, we didn't teach a virus anything. First of all, a virus. Don't personify a virus. It's not a person. You can't teach it an old virus new tricks. But speaking of that, how can you tell whether this virus came from animals or the wild or whether it was manufactured. Well, it turns out there are ways to do that that have to do with science. And one of the ways is you look at the genetic sequence and you compare it to known animal-derived viruses. And that's what they did with this virus. It has a lot of what

they call homology, meaning its similarity, sameness, to bat corona viruses that are known. Now, the changes to this virus that differentiate it from the original SARS, because this is SARS to the sequel, the changes are, you know, again, and how it's binding and different things like that. In order to engineer those changes, you would do them in a certain way, right? That would be rational and based on our understanding. The way the changes actually show up in the genetic code, it's just like looking at evolution. Why do we, you know, still have a vestigial tail when we're developing as an embryo? It makes no sense, but it's part of the evolutionary path. When you look at this virus, you can see the evolutionary path it takes, which means a lot of mutations that make no

sense that wouldn't actually add any danger to the virus, but they're there, which then again show this is not something consciously created in a lab. And pretty much the scientists agree on this, which is unusual. Now, could it have escaped? Could it have be a natural virus that escaped from a Wuhan lab that was studying it? Well, sure, but what's that got to do with then anything? That wasn't like an intentional release. I mean, who cares? Has nothing to do with the particular conspiracy at hand, and I don't think that happened, because you don't need to invoke that to explain how this thing started in bats, maybe moved to, you know, pangalons, and then ends up jumping to humans, which, by the way, one other thing, Jordan, when it jumps to humans, it can either

already be dangerous to humans and spread human to human, or it can acquire that after it replicates within a human host. And we don't know the answer with this virus, but it does change the dynamic, because if it acquired it once getting into humans, we can actually extinguish it in humans and it's gone. If it's already virulent and damaging to humans while it's in an animal host, it's going to keep coming back because that animal host would have to be extinct in order to stop it. Now, pandemic, what I think is interesting is planemic has even been denounced by these two doctors who are cited in the film as experts.

You know these Bakersfield, California, urgent care doctors who came out and they became stars on Fox News for being like, this whole thing is overblown because they wanted to reopen their clinic. And I look at these guys and I'm kind of like, you guys are a-holes because you're choosing to open your business and you're trying to use your expertise to state things that you know are kind of false so that you continue making money. Now, even if we don't assume that these guys are complete a-holes,

they have just seen themselves in Plandemic and they were like, oh, shoot, we did not want to. So they're distancing themselves and they're like, We have nothing to do with Plandemic. The creator of this film never asked to use our footage. He skewed our study. He skewed our interviews to fit his agenda. We do not agree.

We are not interested in being associated with the conspiracy theory against the current administration. It's kind of funny and fun for me to see these two guys who are just out for profit and who didn't care about people like five minutes ago end up in the turn it up to 11 version of their own bullshit and then be like, ooh, we look really dumb now. And it's like, yeah, well, you dipped your toe in that water and you can't get that stank off, can you guys? It's really funny, Jordan, because we were talking about people sending us dumb videos and a bunch of my own followers, many of whom are healthcare professionals, sent me that video saying, look, these guys are saying reopen and they've done a study in the two Bakersfield docs.

So I did a video debunking their video initially as an angry video and then as a point by point. And the thing with them is, I actually think they believe what they're saying because they're so motivated. to open up because, again, their business is going out of business, and they have this data which they're spinning in the wrong way and incorrectly. And in my video, I go through and debunk that, but it's funny now. You're exactly right because they know they're not dummies. They don't want to be associated with anti-vaccine conspiracy lunatics. They're fine being associated with the right

because a lot of their moral palate is saying, hey, the economy matters, liberty versus oppression, and big science is holding us down. Okay, fine, fine, that's your moral palette. But they don't want to be associated with cuckoo for cocoa puffs. And that's probably why they made that statement. I agree. And I just thought it was kind of interesting because I looked at these guys and I thought it's a little disingenuous and they must know some of it is, but they're like, look, we're going to get some publicity for this. It's going to help our business. Kind of no harm, no foul. I disagree with that. But I think that's where they were. Someone just took their thing and turned it up, again, turned it up to 11 and they were just like, oh, crap. Because they didn't know that that was

going to happen. They thought, we're safe. We're going to get a bunch of accolades from people who saw us on right wing news sources or right leaning news sources. And now it's like, oh, you had no idea what you were getting yourselves into. Like, they went over to the dark side for a second and thought they could just come back home when things were covered. And it's like, nope, you are now officially these guys who are on your hip to big pharma shills and look, it's a pandemic man. Like, ugh, good luck getting that off. You know, that was a good. So, okay, these are fellow physicians. I was reluctant to come out just blasting, but I did. I called. them clowns and I went through this whole thing. And what's interesting is their video has telltale

signs of conspiracy thinking, which one of them was they asked a question towards the end in this, you know, mock press conference in Bakersfield. And by the way, these guys are docks in a box. They run an urgent care. They have no business talking about mass epidemiology or what happens in hospitals because they don't go to hospital. So they don't see how deadly this thing is, right? So they're skewed and they may actually believe it because they're only seeing a part of it. So they said something to the effect of now. When people like, Fauci tell you they're trying to keep you safe, what are they meaning? They're trying to control you. Anytime someone says they're trying to keep you safe, they're trying to control you.

That's what Erickson said at one point in the press conference. And that's when I finally said, I'm going to go really hard because these guys are showing their bias on the table. They're putting it right out there and they're not acknowledging that it's a bias. Often when I do a video, Jordan, I go, look, here I have a few libertarian biases. I have a few liberal biases. I have some conservative bias. I'm going to put it out in advance. This is where my elephant is. So here's the data. Now, you can come at me and see what you come up with, but at least acknowledge what your bias is. Exactly. I have a rationalism bias. I want things to be scientific. And sometimes when we don't have science to prove something either way, I go, well, in that case, I'm not going to look at it,

which is not necessarily good. We should be looking at things even as early evidence comes in. We can't have double-blind, placebo control, da-da-da, for everything. But that doesn't mean believe everything that you see on the internet. And right now, look, the pure incentives, as you said before, in closing here, humans really are only as good as our incentives. It pays right now to be a COVID-19 conspiracy theorist because before Mikevitz and all these other horrible grifters glommed on to this, she's particularly, she was a second or third string anti-vaccine crank. And now look, she is a celebrity in that world going to give talks, going to give interviews, going to sell books. She's going to make millions of dollars from people who don't know any better. And this is

now her business model because she cannot get a job doing anything else. Plandemic throws out so many false claims in 22, 24 minutes. It's difficult for any lay viewer to keep track of what's true. And I hope that we have helped a little bit with that today. So thank you very much, Doctor, for coming on the show. Hey, thanks, Jordan. We got to stay away from that addictive drug of social media success because it's easy to do this and make money,

but you have to think about your bigger impact in the world and the people that you're harming. Amen to that, man. Thank you so much. Thanks, brother. Big thank you to ZDogMD. We'll link to his YouTube channel in our show notes. He's got some funny stuff. He's got some serious stuff.

Please use our website links. If you buy books from any of the guests on the show, it does help support the show. And that works for audio books as well. So please, if you buy any work from the guest, please use our show's links in the show notes. Also in the show notes, there are worksheets for each episode so you can review what you have learned here from ZDog and myself today about Plandemic. We also now have transcripts for each episode, and those can be found in the show notes as well. A lot of people are thinking, why didn't you link Plandemic in the show notes? It keeps getting removed, so any link I put up is going to change.

Also, it's a complete effing waste of your time, unless you're just trying to go see it to see what grifters look like in this day and age. Again, we have transcripts for the episode. Those are on the show notes. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com slash YouTube. We had some good high-quality video there. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems, using tiny habits over at our six minute networking course. It takes a couple minutes per day.

It's a free course over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig the well before you are thirsty people. Make sure you build those relationships and your network before you need it, even if it means starting from scratch. Now, these drills take six minutes a day. Seriously. It's not fluff. It's crucial.

It's free. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. By the way, most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course, so come join us. You'll be in smart company. You can reach out to ZDog on social media telling you loved this episode of the show. You never know what'll shake out of reaching out to a show guest. And speaking of building relationships, reach out and follow me on social. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram and add me on LinkedIn.

I post more there than anywhere right now, probably, and it's a lot of more intelligent people that know how to spell, so I kind of like it right now. I'm just Jordan Harbinger on LinkedIn, easy to find. this show is created in association with podcast one. This episode was produced by Jen Harbinger, engineered by Jace Sanderson. The ads were fun because of Peter Oldring. Show notes and worksheets by Robert Fogarty, music by Evan Viola. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own.

And yep, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I'm sure as heck not a doctor or a therapist. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share. with friends when you find something useful or interesting. So if you know somebody who's on the fence about this pandemic BS, send it to them. If you know somebody who's bought it, whole hog, send it to them. This may not change their mind. They may be a lost cause, but seriously. And if you know

anybody who just wants to know how to debunk something, well, we tried. Let us know what you think. Hopefully you find something great in every episode, so please do share the show with those you love. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. Facebook message, but you must have missed it. I sent some links to prove vaccines will turn your dog autistic. It's peer review. Natural news is hella journalistic.

The editor is gluten-free, a vegan psychic mystic. Sometimes I wonder if you might know more than Gwyneth Paltrow, but anyways, fuck it. You're a shill and she's on Netflix, bro. My girlfriend's pregnant, too. Don't think I'll vax her, though. Those toxins will block the natural weed I make her smoke. Here's some links. I read about this heroin addict that was vaccinated.

They said it's the aluminum and that exacerbates it. I know you probably hear this every day, but you're the biggest sham. I read your turntable health clinic was just some farmer scam. I got a room full of these articles. Did my research, man. I'd like to send them to you. Because, dog, you know your shit is whack. Anyways, hope you get this Z.

Hit me back. Facebook chat, you farm a whore. Love your jams. This is Dan. My tea won't flow. I'm wondering why. You still ain't called a road. I hope I wasn't blocked.

I ain't mad. I just think it's fucked up. You think I'm a Russian bot. If you didn't want to talk to me outside Taco Bell, you didn't have to. But you could have signed a vaccine exemption for Matthew. That's my service weasel, man. He's my closest bro. We waited outside the drive-thru for you with a cheese burrito,

and you just said no. That's pretty shitty, man. We packed it full of measles. Natural exposure, because little Matthew scared and needles. Ah, he's foaming at the mouth now. I probably just need to feed him. Remember when we met on Twitter? You said, if I'd tweet you, you would tweet back.

See, I'm just like you in a way. I don't connect with doctors, neither. I got chronic line, but still got no believers. I can relate to what you're saying in your songs. So when I have a shitty day, I Google cures and grab a bong Because I don't really got shit else But that shit helps when I'm fatigued Even got a script from a homeopath for kombucha weed

Sometimes I feel better when I meet more folks like me I joined a Facebook group called Health Nut News And they hate MDs But every time I watch your viz, it's real the way you tell it Hell 3.0 is so legit next to the bullshit they sell See, they don't know you like I know you see No one does I just wish the system would get better

But it never does You gotta reply, man, I'll listen to Natural news is pretty dumb. Dan, P.S., that weasel bit my hand. My arms gone numb. Here, Mr. Internet celebrity, I'm a farmer's chill for cash. This will be the last message I ever send your ass. It's been six hours and still no word.

You don't respond quick? I sent 40 DMs and still get this auto-response shit. So this is my last Twitter message. I hope you get it. I'm in the car right now on my way to a tennis party. Hey, Z, I put a jade egg up my butt. Dare me to drive? You know those moms who feed bleach to the kids

Just because it might cure their autism Because they saw it on some sight All the wild desperate Because no doctor would help them, right? That's kind of how this is You could have rescued me from Wu Now it's too late I'm on a pound of CBD now I'm cuckoo

And all I wanted was a stupid message or a call Just to let me know my pain is real I'm not some kind of fraud I needed you see dog Celebrities ain't docs think about it You ruined it now I hope you can't sleep and you seethe about it And when you live stream anti-vaccine freaks

Scream about it Hope your kids get vaccine injured and you dream about me. See, Z? Shut up, Matthew, I'm talking to Siri. Hey, Z, that's my service weasel screaming in the trunk. He got autistic from vaccines, so I gave him a mercury animal, but he's been acting nuts and hasn't pood, so I'm going to blame you.

Well, got to go. McCullough's posting now. Oh, shit, my phone froze. How am I supposed to tweet this shit out? I meant to write you sooner, but I just been slammed. Nothing I type will change your mind about vaccines, man. Look, I wish I had the time that you deserve. The system sucks.

were paid to do procedures. I'm sorry your girl won't get a shot. Don't get confused. Trust her OB-Doc, not all that weed and natural news. And what's this bit you said about burritos full of measles? That's a serious disease. I'm uneasy about that weasel. You got real issues, Stan, chronic Lyme, notwithstanding.

I think you had some trauma and want a doc that's understanding. It makes me sad when those celebrities spread advice that kills. But docs who do it out of love get branded pharma shills. I'm really heard about that stuff you heard about my clinic. We work hard to do care. right, but of course insurance killed it. I think we could have helped calm the fears that you're attached to before you hurt yourself, your girl, or your little Matthew. I know you're mad, Dan. I'm sad you don't feel hurt, but I get mad when kids get hurt because damn, these vaccines work.

I just don't want you to do some crazy shit. I saw this one bit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick. Some dude was on his phone and drove his car over a bridge and had a rabbit weasel in the trunk with a bunch of mercury in it. And on his phone, they found a text, but they didn't say who it was to come to think about it. it his name was, it was you. Dan. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here,

just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. recently they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think the benefits of laughter why sports fans get so invested and what makes people like you or not the through line is always the same smart ideas you can actually use in real life something you should know has been featured in apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting so if you want another show that scratches that i want to understand how people in the world really work itch search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts look for the bright yellow light bulb and start Start listening. You can thank me later.