The Jordan Harbinger Show - 403: My Best Friend’s Cheating Ex | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 11, 2020

How can you still be supportive of the friend you love when they're still trying to work things out with a cheating ex you'd like to strangle? We'll look into this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/403 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: How can you still be supportive of the friend you love when they're still trying to work things out with a cheating ex you'd like to strangle? You accidentally eavesdropped on a pair of clients engaging in carnal relations over Zoom when they thought they were signed out. Should you let them know you heard everything or just let it go? How can you dig the well before you're thirsty when all you're hearing is the sound of your network's crickets? As a highly praised female in a male-dominated industry, how can you make it clear you expect to make as much as your male predecessor -- with the title to match -- without coming off as pushy? Working from home during this quarantine has been an incredibly positive and productive experience, but your company is old school and itching to get back to business as usual in the office. What might you do to keep living the quarandream? This LinkedIn "mentorship" contact you got suckered into having a conversation with is definitely a scam, right? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. And if you want to keep in touch with former co-host and JHS family Jason, find him on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks. Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant people, and we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission here on this show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside of your own mind, your own brain. If you're new to this show, every Friday we give advice to you, we answer listener questions,

solicited advice, to be clear. We answer your listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long format interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, and for a selection of featured episodes to get you started with some of our favorite guests and popular topics, go to Jordan Harbinger.com. We'll hook you up. This week we had Bob Whitman. He's retired FBI. He founded the FBI's Art Crime Division. He would chase stolen works of art and national treasures around the world when undercover as a dirty art dealer. The guy's got stories. We also had Cheryl Strayed, author of Wild, this massively popular book. Have you read that, Gabriel, by the way? I have not read the book, but I did see

the movie and I really liked it. So basically the same thing, right? Yeah. And that's all, it's exactly the same thing. That's why they make the movie. So you don't have to read the book. Right. That's why. This was. a great adventure she took. She walked 1,100 miles alone with no experience, not necessarily recommended quite the bad idea, honestly. I was about to say, I was about to say. That sounds, she has more courage than I ever had. I was trying to find, like, another euphemism for terrible idea, and I just could not think of anything, and it just seemed the most apt to say that it was a terrible idea. And it kind of was, but it did spawn her book, which worked out in the end.

Not necessarily recommend, do that yourself, but the episode was a great listen. I recommend that, especially if you're interested in adventures or in getting the wisdom of a mega bestselling author. Gabriel, what's that quote? Like, adventures are never fun while you're having them. You heard that? I haven't heard that, but I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that too. Yeah.

Make sure you've had a look and listen to everything we created for you this week. You can reach us for these question and answer sessions Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails as concise as you can. Try to include a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. And look, the episode art for you should be purple. Some people have said, oh, yeah, I've got old art of you, or I've got the one where you're talking into a microphone. Some of you have old art.

You're not getting all the episodes. If that's the case, and you're on Android, especially your Google podcasts, unsubscribe, do a search for the show and resubscribe. There's a few people that are on this, like, kind of old feed. A lot of people are in Australia having this problem because of a technical thing. I don't know. Look, I don't make the rules. I just make the podcast.

I'm glued, by the way, to YouTube streaming news about this revolution in Belarus. Gabriel, are you following this at all? Just a little bit on Reddit, and I have a couple of friends from Belarus who have been posting about it. Craziness. Yeah, it's exciting, witnessing history in the making. I think I missed my calling. I would have loved to have been there as a journalist during this crazy time. I would have loved that.

I remember I wanted to be Dan Rather when I was a kid, and my mom said, oh, you don't want to be a journalist. They don't make any money. And it's now, I've told this story on the show before. I'm like, my mom was just trying to get me to do a job that was not dangerous. And it totally worked. Here I am sitting at home all day. That's hilarious. She's not entirely wrong.

That journalist don't make a ton of money. No, but I'm pretty sure Dan Rather is minted, as they say, overseas in the UK where we are not allowed to visit anymore. I'm sure he is just fun. But it would have been funny if she's like, honey, you don't want to be Dan Rather. You want to be one of those journalists on Vice. It goes to really dangerous places and looks really cool talking about how messed up it is. Right, it has a funny haircut, which I do have. I got that far.

I could see you on Vice or maybe Axios or something. Axios? Yeah. Vice has more fun assignments. They're up to no good a lot of the time. Vice journalists are up to no good, and they've made being up to no good look super awesome. They have, yeah. Meanwhile, they're in Belarus. They're like, today we're in Belarus making Molotov cocktails.

It's like, damn. How fun Belarus anyway, the world is watching. We are with you. And I know they cut the internet off in the country, but people are not. still getting this show. So the priorities, I love this, the priorities of this right now, the internet is off in Belarus and people are still downloading the show from Belarus. How do they get it? Proxies, black hat internet connections, people who know how to work around the firewalls or whatever they've got set up. I don't know. You know, some of it is likely people that are in embassies,

foreign embassies, that are diplomats that don't have their access cut off. There's probably some of that. Certainly everyone from Belarus that's getting the show looks to be in Minsk, the capital. So it is possible they're diplomats working an NGO. I don't know. If you're in Belarus, shoot me a message, shoot me a tweet. I'm so curious. I want to hear from you. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on social. Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com, but we've delayed this enough. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Triple J. My best friend just told me that her boyfriend of two years cheated on her while he was away for work. I am already apprehensive about him, which she had a pretty good idea about, largely because my friend is this guy's mom and girlfriend all at once, basically the whole package.

He was on cocaine when he cheated on her, which she also is not okay with. It sounded to me like he was trying to excuse his behavior with this drug taking. By the way, we're both 23. Yeah, Gabriel, don't you hate it when you breach the trust of those you hold most dear because you've been railing lines of blow? I mean, that seems like a legit excuse, right? Yeah, this wasn't really me. It's not how I really feel.

I was blasting rails. I was hitting the slopes, dust on that Hollywood eight ball, going into, skiing. It could happen to anybody. Continue. I can't feel my face when I'm not with you. Can't feel my face when I'm cheating on you. Yeah. Remix. As soon as she told me the news, my heart sank. I knew all the wrong things to say, but I held back. Instead, I told her that I'm not disappointed in her for trying to work things out, but to just be careful and self-aware. I did maybe let it slip that I really won't be able to talk to him or see him for a while because I think I would rip him to shreds, which she said was understandable. What makes this

worse is that we've discussed this before and agreed that it would be a deal breaker if one of our partners ever cheated. But I understand it just isn't that simple when you put so much love, emotion, and energy into a relationship. I know that she wants to see how the next few months go with him, even if I don't quite understand it myself. At the same time, I know she is so deeply cut up about it, and I don't know how to support her decision in a meaningful way or what I should do or say to help her through this process while keeping my own biases aside. P.S., thanks for providing a highly motivating educational funny podcast. I've learned so much about myself and my business through you guys signed, shaking my non-judgy head. I mean, this is a tough

situation. Boy, does it make me glad to not be in my early 20s anymore. Gabe, what do you think? Yeah, this is definitely a 23. Well, actually, no, I kind of take that back. This probably happens to people in their 30s and 40s. Yeah, are you kidding? Of course. I don't even know what I was thinking. I think it's just, it happens more when you're younger. I don't know. I think it happens more and it's probably happening for the first time or the second time and you haven't seen it happen enough to know that this is what you do when when you find your boyfriend railing lines and cheating on you. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, hitting those slopes.

You know, one of the hardest things in life is watching a good friend make a mistake. And of course, you've got the writer who's like, I'm going to kill the guy. And then you have the friend, the person who's been cheated on, be like, well, I'm going to try and work this out. And I totally get both sides of this. Yeah. When you love someone, the way that you love your friend, but your needs and values don't line up on a decision like this. It can be so hard. And of course, yeah, you want to totally rip the guy's

throat out. You're walking a really hard line here. I got to say, I think you're doing a really good job. You've been clear with your friend about your anger without demanding that she agreed with you. You're not setting a hard boundary. Like, it's either him or us. You know, we hate him. We're going to go like smash his windshield. You're giving her the room to make her own choices and maybe learn this lesson for herself. You're being super humble about the fact. Well, it seems like that you might be wrong and this guy deserves a second chance, there's a real emotional maturity and solid boundary setting that I'm feeling coming from this letter. What do you think, Gabe? Absolutely. That totally jumped out of me. It's hard to walk that line. I think she's doing it with, she's doing it very gracefully

and she's allowing everybody in the situation to have their own experience, which is difficult, but important. So the question really is, how do I support my best friend when she's doing something that I'm really not on board with or can't fully get on board with? I think you're already doing that. I think your job here is to give your friend the room to make her own choices, make her own mistakes, while also being honest and authentic as much as I hate that word about your own experience. It's totally fair to say, you know, I'm disappointed that your boyfriend blasted some bumps and cheated on you. I don't think that's okay. It's extremely hard for me to see you in pain. I myself wouldn't have gone back to him, I don't think. But that doesn't mean you can't.

We're still friends. I still love you. I'm going to support you. And we can talk about what you're going through and I'll help you the best that I can. You don't have to erase your biases in order to be there for your friend. You can acknowledge them and still be supportive. And that's really what a good friend does. Where it gets dicey, though, in my opinion, is when someone turns down your advice and then continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. We've all been there at some point. We all know how infuriating that is. If your friend comes to you crying and asking for advice every other week because her boyfriend treated her badly again. It's totally fair, in my opinion, for you to say, you know, I've told you where I stand on this, and you clearly want to continue giving this guy

chances over and over, and as your friend, I have to let you do that, but I'm not sure there's anything more I can say, and you don't have to listen and be the shoulder to cry on and picking people up at 3 a.m. from someone else's house or whatever. I've also got some personal rules that don't always work at every situation. I will readily admit this. For example, my college roommate, He was the worst when it came to dating and women. He was hopeless, and he would always ask for advice and then not follow the advice and then end up in some terrible situation and then ask us for advice again on how to fix it and then not follow that advice and make the situation worse and rinse and repeat until it

was like, yeah, she's not talking to me anymore. So my rule in college, before I had any clue with people, I figured this one out. My rule was, don't ask me for advice if you're not. going to follow it. And if you ask for advice and then you don't follow it, because you don't really know in advance, then do not come to me and ask how to fix it. Of course, this is easier said than done. And if somebody makes a really big mistake, you want your friends to be able to come to you and talk about things. This was only in the category of the opposite sex, because it would be like, should I show up at the party where she is with her current boyfriend? And we'd be like, no. And then

he'd be like, so I'm at the party and I got punched in the face and kicked out. Can you like come and back me up and we're like, no, we can come and get you so that you don't get killed, but that's pretty much it. And then we'd go and pick him up and he'd be like, I'm going back there, give me a ride. And we'd be like, no, we're not doing that. Like, it was just one thing after another. And my rule was like, I'm just not getting involved. If you ask me once and you don't follow it, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. Dapping out. That's fair. If her friend continues to make bad choices, though, and it gets to the point where it is compromising their relationship, then I think she might have to choose whether she wants to be as close with her as she always was, which is really

painful, but which is sometimes necessary. And by the way, not to be the grumpy, old, condescending guy over here, but it happens to a lot of friends in their 20s, I think. You know, this is when you're figuring out your values, you're figuring out which mistakes you can tolerate and which ones you can't, and how do you feel about this? And is this how I would live my life? And do I want to hold my best friend to the same standards that I hold myself? You know, those are really big questions and they're really intimidating sometimes, but not all friendships survive that, and I think that is okay. I'm not saying you need to drop this person. I'm not saying that that's where your friendship is heading. I'm just saying that could be part of the process of

figuring out who stays in your life if they continue to behave like that. One final thought, supporting your friend in a meaningful way does not mean agreeing with her on everything. It means being there in an appropriate way when she needs help. It means offering her new perspectives. It means helping her sort through her own feelings. It does not mean validating her poor choices if she keeps making them. It doesn't mean censoring yourself about how you really feel or tolerating continual bad behavior from this guy. So I hear that you really care about her. I really feel that from your letter. So I do think it's important to just tell you that you can love her and you can disagree with her. You know what I mean? Like you can support her and you can draw that line. In fact, those are sometimes

the greatest expressions of love and support when you're dealing with a friend who's going through some tough stuff. All right. What's next? Hey Jordan. One of my account executives and I were on a Zoom call this past week, and when everyone was signing off at the end, a few of our customers stayed on. At times, I'll stay on the call to make sure there aren't questions or conversations post-meeting that I might need to stick around for. But that's when things turned weird. Suddenly, I could hear two voices coming from one of the customer lines. It was a man and a woman, and they were whispering. I could make out a few words, which sounded pretty personal, and then some rhythmic pounding noise. Oh, that sounds like a Netflix subtitle.

Which one? Rhythmic pounding noise is the Netflix subtitle? I'm not sure about that. Like when two people are having sex on a Netflix show and you're watching with subtitles, it'll be like rhythmic. Oh, subtitles, right, right, right, where it's like there's a music note and it says like the doors. Yeah, or like when someone does this sound, it'll be like lip trilling. Lillings or blows raspberry. Yeah, and you're like, oh, that's what that's called.

That's what that is. Okay, let me. Rhythmic pounding noise. I just respond. it so viscerally to the phrase rhythming pounding noise. At least he has good rhythm. Yeah, that's true. It was on point.

Could have been like, I don't know, what's the opposite of rhythm? A rhythmic? I guess it doesn't sound quite packed the punch I was looking for, but yeah. Off kilter pounding noise. All right, let's move on. I can make out a few words, which sounded pretty personal, and then some rhythmic pounding noise started that the account executive and I were 99% sure with sex. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was sex.

Sounds like sex. Yeah. I would say rhythmic pounding noise can only be a few. things. Yeah, he wasn't doing any DIY home renovation. No, no. My personal style would be to just move on and not let it impact my connection with this customer, but what would you do? Do we address this with the customer, report it to management, or just let it go? Signed, over having overheard. First of all, how is this still happening? We've been using Zoom for like, some of us for like six years, others of us for six months, but every single day, web conferencing itself has been around for

at least a decade and a half. How are people still getting it on during a video chat? That's just like, how is that still happening? I don't understand. I mean, haven't you seen the Instagram memes of people recording Zoom calls where somebody does something absolutely humiliating? I've cringed so hard watching those. And I'm like, that will never be me.

No, of course. And you see people that like bring the camera into the bathroom and then set it facing them wearing their Bluetooth headphones. And it's just like, oh my God. Or other people get up and they're like only wearing underwear. or more. I mean, people have seen these, I'm sure, but my advice, let it go. Be discreet, be respectful, pretend you didn't notice, spare them the embarrassment, especially since they're a customer. It's not like this is one of your closest friends and you're like, dude, I heard you and your girl getting

it on. Oh my God, that's ridiculous. And then you have a good laugh and a beer. This is a customer. They do not want you to know. Well, put a little asterisk by that. They probably do not want you to know. If they were an employee at your company, it would probably be on you or someone at your company to resolve it. I'm not saying it's okay. It's just not your domain. And that said, if it happens again or if it happens regularly to the point where it becomes a problem for you or for your colleagues, then I think you can say something and you probably should say something. But there's a little piece of me, Gabe, that's like, is this a fetish? I knew you were going to say that. I had the exact same thought when I was reading. I was like, is there some small chance that

they totally wanted that to happen? Right. Yeah. Like, oh, the volume's still on. And she's like, I don't care. I want it. Like, who knows? pandemic has been really hard for exhibitionists. You've got to figure out how to do it when you can't. Great for voyeurs, bad for exhibitionists. Good point. Yeah. If you have a relationship with this customer, you could probably, like a good relationship,

you could probably bring it up in a way that doesn't completely humiliate them, you know? You could like jump on Zoom or pick up the phone and be like, listen, this is a little awkward. I don't mean to make it weird. It's not a big deal to me, but I couldn't help but notice that you left your mic on the other day during some. We heard some rhythmic pounding. And I'm guessing you don't know your way around a home renovation. So maybe during your extracurriculars, you might want to just make sure that the thing isn't on. You know, I just want to give you the heads up.

Man, I don't know what to say. People turn your mics and your videos off by default. Like check that before you do anything after you finish a Zoom call. Better yet, don't do anything at all. Close the computer. Go in another, I don't know what to say. Well, wait till they all hands meeting is over before you put all your hands on somebody else. There's these YouTube compilations where someone walks away from the computer, they're only wearing a shirt, or like I said, they put the computer down in the bathroom with the camera facing them.

My favorite, though, is this guy, he doesn't. Oh God, I know where you're going. I just saw that. I literally just saw that video, and it was, I was mortified on behalf of this person. Go on. So this guy, he for some reason doesn't leave the meeting. It's like his part of the meeting is over. Everyone else's is still going.

I don't know why he doesn't leave the meeting. He walks away. He comes back with a bottle of lotion. You see him like undo his belt. That's it. And everyone sort of like slowly realizes what's happening. Like you see the confused look on their face and they're like, oh, he's still in the meeting.

And then they're like, wait a minute. And then the women are like covering their mouths. And then the guys are like covering their eyes with like a little space between their fingers. And then it's like, Michael, Michael, no. But his headphones are plugged in. So he can't hear them yelling. How does he not hear them if he's on the freaking call?

That's what I don't understand. But it was headphones and the headphones are like on the desk. Oh, he didn't put them back on. So they're yelling it for him, but he can't hear them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just he's typing away, if you will. Glickety clacket-clack. I mean, the worst part of that video is watching the realization wash over all those people's faces.

It's the worst part of it. And then he doesn't even understand that they know. But also, like, couldn't the moderator kill that person's video? 100%. Yeah, 100%. That either makes me think it's possibly staged, or they didn't know the Zoom controls, totally possible. Or the moderator was like, no, no, no, no. I never liked him. Wait for it. That's true. Yeah, what did this guy do before that? That made everyone want to just let him hang to dry. Or they're all close. Like, it's a cool company, and they're like, oh, this is going to be legendary. I think they're English. So, of course, somebody said, oh, this is going to be legendary, mate. I'm not leaving this one go.

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be talking about this down the pub for years. Exactly. Yeah. Here in the States, though, instant lawsuit somehow. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger Show. All right. What's next? Dear Jordan, Jen and Gabriel, I've reached a bit of an impasse with my networking, and I would love your advice. I'm trying to maintain relationships with wonderful colleagues

I had at my previous job of nine years. Since March, I've reached out to no fewer than 25 of these colleagues by email. Only one person wrote back to me and suggested at a phone call, but now she's not responding to give me a preferred time, and it's been a month. Hint, hint. I know that these are trying times for everyone, and people have little to give, but I've noticed a pattern with my contacts, even pre-COVID. People just aren't great at responding and being good network companions, so to speak. Do you have any advice for people like me who really want to keep up a robust network, but find

little reciprocation? Someday soon, I might want to ask one of these contacts for a job connection, and I'll appear to be coming out of the blue. Thank you. trying to dig the well to the sound of my network's crickets. Ooh. So two things might be going on here, possibly slash probably both are going on here. The first thing, this person is taking her networking a lot more seriously than her former

colleagues, which is completely normal. When you start six minute networking, people are like, oh, I'm going to reach out and this is going to happen, that's going to happen. Because she's more proactive in reaching out and her ex-colleges are not, she thinks, oh, there's something wrong with her or him. but there isn't. She's just doing more of the work and she's dealing with people who don't get the power, don't understand, don't care, the power of maintaining relationships. And I wonder if this is even a culture thing at her old company. If so, it's definitely not her fault. And the second option,

she's super diligent about networking but needs more work to make it pay off. And this might mean that she needs to work on her presentation or her rapport with people or the way that she adds value, the people she chooses to network with, her communication style, and so on. She's working hard on the business of networking, but not getting results because she needs to work on the content of her networking. So it's really hard to say without knowing her more, but it's important to call that out. Nine times out of 10, when I see or hear this, and I get this a lot, this type of message, most of the time it's because people are expecting that by doing the six-minute networking drills, exercises, and being a great relationship

builder and manager, that other people will also suddenly start doing this. And I understand that line of thinking. It's actually not logical, but I totally feel the same way. The truth is, they won't. That's okay. It means more work for us, but that's how this goes. If everyone suddenly reciprocated, all I would have had to do was teach six-minute networking to a few dozen people, and it would have just taken over the entire planet by now, right? Instead, what I find is that most people never reach back out to me without me prompting. I have to do the like work. I have to follow up. The vast, vast majority, and I mean like 99% of people, they'll go, oh yeah, good to hear from you again. And occasionally one person will say, you know, you're so good at keeping in touch. I'm going to make a

note to keep in touch with you. But they don't have the systems that six minute networking offers. They don't have the discipline, the automation, all that stuff. These aren't your friends. we're having a one-sided relationship as a negative experience, and we take it personally, or we cut these people out of our lives, or we're like, I'm sick of doing all the work. This is business and personal networking and personal relationships. It just doesn't really matter if other people put the work into keeping the connection alive, because we are using our systems. We are using six-minute networking to put in the work.

This is part of what I mean in six-minute networking when I say don't keep score. That means don't worry that you have done the outreach. Don't worry that you have done the bulk of the work to keep the relationship alive. Don't worry that you help them with something and they didn't help you with something else, et cetera. Just forget about it. Keep working the system. Now, if somebody's walking all over you, that's another thing.

If somebody's take, take, take. But if somebody's just not reaching out to you every 90 days and you're reaching out to them every 90 days, it does not matter. Don't worry about it. If you cut out everyone who doesn't work back with you, or pick up the 90-day thing or come back to you all the time on a regular basis, you're just going to run out of connections. So forget about it.

Don't worry about it at all. It's not an indication that you're doing something wrong. All right, Gabe, what else we got? Dear Jordan, I'm a female director in a male-dominated industry. My one-year review is coming up, and from the feedback I've received from my boss, direct reports, co-workers, and external parties I've performed exceptionally well, both prior to and during the pandemic.

My peers and the person who held my position previously all have the title of vice president and make slightly more money than I do. I want to ask for the vice president title and a slight raise to match my peers and predecessor, but my husband, who's also in a male-dominated industry, thinks that I should wait until it's offered. He agrees that I deserve it,

but feels I risk coming across as pushy if I ask. I disagree, as my boss has not only appreciated and implemented all of my recommendations I've made over the last year, he has asked all of the VPs to bring more to the table. My gut tells me to just ask for the title and raise, as I'm fairly assertive in the rest of my professional interactions, and they're received well. But I don't want to risk being perceived as too aggressive for wanting the title and the money when nothing else would change about the job. So do I ask or do I wait? Signed assertive or

aggressive. First of all, congratulations on killing it at your job. You sound like a rock star. The fact that it's only your first year there and you're working in a male dominated industry, that's even more impressive. You should be proud. And you should be secure in the fact that you've put in the work to earn this promotion. I also want to recognize that what you're going through is very, very common. Certainly among women, as we know, sometimes struggle with coming across as assertive or aggressive, when really they're just asking for what they deserve, but also among men who are in a similar position, asking for a raise is often slash always a little intimidating, but you cannot let the intimidation stop you from getting this promotion. And my gut is telling me that

you should ask for it. And here's why. First, your about to get a killer review. That's the perfect time to say, thank you. I'm so happy that you're happy with the job I'm doing. I'd love to be compensated for it at the same level as all of my other colleagues. And by the way, I'm doing the work of a vice president, so how about we make the title official? You're going to want to rephrase that, but they're basically making the case for you during the review. And second, you have several objective reasons for the promotion, your performance, your review, the fact that your predecessor and other people have the VP title, all of these are great things to point to when you make your case. And finally, your boss is explicitly asking you

to bring more to the table and is implementing all of your recommendations. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that when it comes to pointing to specific ways that you have added value to the organization or the bottom line. You don't really risk all that much by stating your case respectfully, even if the male and female higher-ups bristle a little, the worst that'll happen is that they'll say no and maybe think you're getting a little big for your britches, but I don't think anybody's ever been removed for feeling great about doing good work.

They'll also know that you know your worth. If they want you to stick around and they definitely will, then they have to keep you happy, which is not really the worst outcome in the world, you know? Gabe, what do you think? Can she prep well for this? Are there things she can do beforehand to make sure this goes smoothly?

She can definitely prep for this, Getting that great review is going to be one of the greatest things going for her in this negotiation. So that's probably going to do most of the heavy lifting if it comes at just the right moment. But she could prepare her case for why she deserves the promotion on the raise. You know, she could have a little script ready, maybe even a deck or a memo she could share with her bosses if that helps, but definitely wait until the performance review to ask for the raise. That way, if they throw you any curveballs during the review, you won't look silly for asking for the promotion before that.

And if the review is fantastic, which it sounds like it will be, then they're basically just opening the door to that conversation. And just in case your boss does say no to what you're asking for, which, who knows, maybe they will. I mean, it happens all the time. It could happen. Be prepared for that. Ask him why. Ask him what you could be doing. Ask what you could be doing better. Make him get specific. I'm saying him. It could be her. I guess I'm being a little gendered there, but it just sounded like she worked in a male dominated industry. So I pictured her talking to a guy. But, you know, if you make your boss get specific about what it is that you need to do to get what you want, then you can turn those recommendations into a very concrete plan and follow them to a T.

Then in six months or a year, maybe when you have your next review, you can go to him and say, look, I did all the things, you know, so can we talk about my title again? And at that point, it'll be pretty hard, I think, to turn you down. Am I the only one who's a little annoyed that her husband told her to wait until the raise is offered? I'm sure he means well. But I wonder if he'd tell me that same advice if I were in the same position. He's basically telling her, let the company take advantage of her, don't make waves. That's kind of what it seems to me, but why?

I hate to assume it's because she's a woman. I'm not trying to be woke. I don't really play that. But in the absence of other info here, that's kind of what it sounds like. It may not be the case. So I'm curious what his rationale is there. Maybe next time he tries to get a little unlucky, you say, no, no, wait until it's offered. See how he reacts.

Yeah, dude, that's a really good question. Like, is he coming at it from that angle because he's anticipating how other men will view her? Or is he coming at it because he believes that a woman shouldn't ask for it until like like both of those are crappy though like like they're both not okay look look look first of all if it's women should take what's offered and not what they deserve then that sucks I'm not going to do them like that because maybe he's look is his wife no I mean look to be fair she said he agrees that I deserve it but feels I risk coming across as pushy if I ask so that makes me think that he's more anticipating what her male dominated company would think of her if she asked which is totally possible that they would feel that way but also like tough shes. Shit. Sorry that your boss is going to get offended that you asked for what you deserve, salary-wise, for doing good work. Like, okay, if they get so offended that you asked for what you deserve, you should probably go somewhere else. Well, she could, right? If they don't give it to her, then she can just kill it at this job and then speak to all of her accomplishments and go somewhere else. Look, if this is the kind of company that won't do that, I'm looking at this from like a law firm angle,

imagine hearing, well, we don't really like aggressive, assertive women around here, or getting some version of that like, well, we don't, yes, all your male colleagues make more, but you're three weeks newer, so we're not going to give you a raise. And you know it's because you're female. Do you want to work your way up to partner and then find out that they don't want a female partner in the organization, so good luck, but you can always be junior, you know, senior council? No, you want to find out early if they're going to do you like that. And then you can leave. You can take your chops and leave, or you can get a couple more years of experience and bounce or months more of experience. But if they're not going to value you, I don't know. Look, again, we don't really. We don't really,

know what's going on, so you should ask, maybe they'll welcome me into the boys club. Or maybe they'll say, oh, yeah, you're right. That's totally fair. What were we thinking? It might be a non-issue. I'm actually pretty optimistic. I am too. I think nowadays, especially, they're going to be like, oh, a good employee wants to stay and she wants a raise to be at the same level as literally everyone else in the company who's at her level. Yeah, of course, give it to her. Why wasn't she there already? We don't know. All right, Gabe, what else we got? Hey guys, I never thought I would like working from home, but working from home during this quarantine has been an incredibly positive experience. Yep, I feel you. I get more done, go to fewer meetings,

and actually do a better job of staying connected to my team. I want everybody to have a commute again so that my download numbers bounce back from the lack of commute. But that's just me being selfish. I know that that's actually terrible for everyone, but I want to put it out there. Don't forget about me when you go back to your commute. Hashtag WFH. At a company-wide town hall recently, several colleagues asked our leadership about what returning to the office would look like. Would it be safe? What would I do with my kids during remote learning? What if I am or what if I care for a high-risk individual? Their answers to these questions were a bit vague and the last comment from the head of HR was, ultimately we will have to do what is best for the business. Our company is a bit old school and was

strongly opposed to a work-from-home culture in the first place. Now it's pushing for a return to the status quo as quickly as possible. The truth is, I don't want to return to the grind of the office. I like working from home so much that I've considered pursuing another path if I'm forced to choose. What advice would you give me and how do I discuss this topic with my team, signed Living the Core and Dream? This is quite silly. I think if we've learned one thing during this whole ordeal, it's that so many of our beliefs about how work should look, we're actually completely incorrect. We can work from home. We can be connected even when we're remote. We don't have to attend nine meetings a day to get stuff done. Even very hands-on industries are now considering a hybrid

model. So this company sounds like it's fighting progress. I get why, but I also think it's just a sort of dark ages of work mindset. We really need you in a cubicle so that you hate your job, not at home, comfortable where you're actually getting more done if we were to take metrics. Ultimately, it might come down to you leaving this company if you absolutely refuse to go back and they absolutely refuse to let you work from home. I know that's not a very nuanced answer, Gabe. I hope you can do a little better. If you are dead set on not going back and you want to keep your job, then here's what I would do. I would put together a little email or a little memo or whatever, summarizing what you've done

during the work from home period, talking about how you've done it, what the results were specifically, be specific, be concrete, show that you have actually gotten more done working from home than being at the office, and then ask your managers whether you can still work from home. Tell them you are not trying to get out of work, you're not trying to drop off the map, you're not trying to have it easy, that you just work better when you're remote. If you do have any special considerations like children or parents, then consider mentioning them to grant you an exception if you feel comfortable with that. If they say yes, great, mission accomplished, then they deserve credit for letting you work in a way that suits you. But if they say no, and it sounds like, unfortunately, they might, then you have to be prepared to either cave or quit.

Or tell them that you will have to give this a serious think. Yeah. No, I love what you said, Gabe. That said, maybe there is a negotiation to be had here. You know, would you be open to working at the office twice a week and working at home three times a week or vice versa? That seems fair to me. It might get you the best of both worlds. You might also sort of dread going into the office, but at least you don't have to quit your job.

Maybe your bosses would be open to that. And maybe some other people in the office are more progressive. Sadly, I do have a feeling that that company's not going to budge, Gabe. I'm not really getting a feeling that they're going to be like, yeah, great idea. Do it your way, kind of. They don't sound very accommodating. they don't sound very open to change. And even if they know you can work well remotely,

they probably don't want to make exceptions and then make other employees mad. So I would prepare to not get your way and start lining up your plan B. Be networking, maintain those relationships, dive into the six-minute networking stuff, ABG, use Connect for, get your relationships in order,

do lay off lifelines, even though you might be leaving voluntarily, start, I guess what you'd call a soft job search, see what's out there. If it comes to that, see who's hiring, see what you'd like to do, see who might be around in your area. Prepare mentally, prepare mentally, prepare financially for your company to not grant you this exception. And ultimately, you might choose to leave so that you can be on your own terms, and fair enough, but lay the pipe for that decision now so that you're not left scrambling to find a job and take care of yourself if you do end up parting ways. This is the Jordan Harbinger

show and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and or services? You can always visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right, Gabe, last but not least. Hey, Jordan, team. I was recently approached by somebody on LinkedIn after we attended a webinar for sales professionals. After connecting with the person via LinkedIn, we had some brief introductory messages and everything seemed fine. At one point, after saying what his day job was, he also included, apart from that, I'm also an entrepreneur through coaching from a private mentorship

group. Cringe. Curious, I asked for more information and he explained that the mentorship program is geared towards developing cash flow business assets through entrepreneurship and leadership skills among others. Oh man, this is ringing my bells. I think I know where this is going. Still hesitant, I continued the conversation to see what he had to say. Then he mentioned, from time, time my team looks for like-minded individuals. If there's a possibility, would you be open to explore? I figured it wouldn't hurt to hear him out, and we set up a time to speak. So here we go, right?

This is like super vague, shady request, lots of buzzwords. We're looking for like-minded individual. Like, no one says that unless it's a cult or MLM. Or an orgy, I think. Or you're swinging. Yeah, you'd be swinging. Yeah, I, so true. No one says I'm an entrepreneur through coaching from a private mentorship group and we're looking

for like-minded individuals and we make our money through leadership skills. It doesn't mean anything. What does that mean? I don't actually know what that means. Oh, we lead. That's how we generate revenue. And then we lead leaders who also lead. That's called a pyramid scheme.

Sorry. Continue. We met via Zoom where he explained that the program was a mentorship program, a business engine slash platform, and a community that helps entrepreneurs succeed using what they call ABI or asset-based income. Okay, I'm going to stop you again already. So first of all, mentorship is a trendy buzzword that is almost exclusively is bullshit. Also, ABI, asset-based income is a nice, jargony, made-up term for something that just already exists. Classic MLM. That is where this is going, right? Like, just, all right, continue. He said they do a vetting process that lasts three to four weeks to see if I

was a good fit. Ironically enough, the acronym he used to describe the trial period was P.E. E-E-E-S, which stood for prep. Get out of here. Which stood for prep education experience selection. This is not real. The acronym is P's. Are you kidding me? So before we let you into our...

That's what he's saying. Before we let you into our cool kids club, we need to make sure you can F-U-C-K. I mean, foster unconventional connections and knowledge. Yeah. Get out of here. This is ridiculous. This guy F-U-C-K's. This guy, yeah.

This guy. Oh, my God. I can't even deal with this. This is so ridiculous. He also mentioned that the process took that long so they could see if the person they were bringing in had patience because if you don't have patience for the three to four weeks, you definitely wouldn't have it for the three to four years that it takes to become successful. Of course.

I mean, who gets paid at a job before they were in it for four years, am I right? Come on. Without skipping a beat, he then told me the next step would be to get this book called The Go-Giver by Bob Berg. My first assignment would be to read the book and then. and we would discuss it in four to five days. I asked him, can you tell me a little bit more about your organization before I commit the time to reading this book? His response was no, because it didn't follow their path of the why, what, and how. Supposedly, if I read the book, I would understand the why,

then we could discuss the what and finally get to the how. All of those steps would be the three to four week process he discussed earlier with eight to nine meetings throughout spaced out over four to five days. That's way too much time. Also, I love Bob Berg. He's a friend of mine. I know that he's going to be super annoyed when he hears this. The other thing is, how is asking a question about why you should read a book, not following the path of why, what, and how? It seems like it literally is the path. Hey, why should I read this?

No, you can't ask questions. It doesn't follow our path of why first and then what and how. What are you talking about? Of course it does. It literally is that. They're like, yeah, you have to follow the path of why. Okay, why. No, not that way.

No, no, not yet, though. Different why. Different why. You have to follow my why. Still not fully invested, but figuring I didn't have much to lose. I reluctantly said yes. He asked that after I finish each chapter, I write a sentence or two so we could discuss it. Great. Now he's getting homework. That's cool. It's like a 36-year-old guy doing homework for a stranger on the internet. No, they're friends. They met on a LinkedIn webinar.

They're close. You're right. We then scheduled time for a follow-up call. This all seemed a little odd. Yeah. So I wanted to see if you had heard about this program and if it's legitimate or not. Let me step here right there. It's not legitimate. Thank you for your I'd put the go-giver or the go-grifter. Ugh, another episode, another scammy self-development scheme. This one might take the cake for the most vague and the least useful. First of all, peas, three to four weeks, eight to nine meetings, homework, patience. I just can't right now with these people.

First of all, I know Bob Berg, like I said before, I'm pretty sure he's going to be super pissed if he knows his book is being used in some crappy MLM companies to dupe people into their predatory schemes. I haven't heard about this program that we didn't name, but it does not even matter. You are not going to find a shred of deep or lasting importance here, certainly not anything that you can't learn on your own. The fact that he's putting you through the ringer,

the reason it's like, oh, eight to nine meetings, you got to do this, you got to do that three to four weeks, then telling you to your face that it's part of a game to test your patience. That is all you need to know. Screw that noise, man. Read the book. It seems interesting.

It's got some legit, endorsements, see if you can take anything away from it. I've read the gogiver. Bob Berg's been on the show. Like I said, I like him. The concepts are solid. It has nothing to do with MLM. Whatever this guy is selling you, you just don't need. This whole set of hoops, he's making you jump through. It's a sales funnel. In dating, it's called playing hard to get. In business is called sales. Namely, getting people with low self-esteem or those that are desperate, which is the MLM company's target market always to do some stuff to commit, to comply, jump through hoops. I'm actually more interested in why you engaged as long as you did.

It seems like you should have been like at first glance just like, nah. I'm not trying to call you out here. I'm genuinely interested. I think a lot of people in your shoes would do the same thing. And that's why this stuff bothers me. Not you bother me, but this stuff, what the companies do bothers me. At every step in this process, you gave this guy room to dig his claws in a little deeper. You said, I figured it wouldn't hurt to hear him out.

Still not fully invested, but figuring I didn't have much to lose, I reluctantly said yes, et cetera. I understand being willing to explore at the beginning. Fair enough. But when you started to realize things were off, you reluctantly kept engaging. Why? You can justify it by saying that you didn't have much to lose, but the truth is you do have a lot to lose.

Your time, which is precious, but if he succeeded in roping you into some for-profit mentorship crap, society garbage, that upsells you on business. books and events, all nonsense, you'd be losing your money, you'd be losing your time, you'd be losing your sanity too, and you'd be praying on your other relationships. I mean, that's what these companies do. And look, I know I'm kind of obsessed here. I told you guys I get letters from scam victims every single week. We did the deep dive on scams a couple weeks back. It was super important and people loved it. I recommend listening to that. Read our article on scams. We'll link it in the show notes. This is just one of dozens and dozens of these types

of scams. And I'm obsessed with this because these are real and because annoying, scammy people like this really bug me. So watch your inbox, guys. Stay vigilant on LinkedIn. Trust your instincts. Protect your time, protect your money, protect your counsel. Know that you don't need ABI, asset based income or coaching from a private mentorship group run by a 27 year old who joined the same MLM eight months before you did. You don't need that to be successful. Most importantly, recognize the qualities in yourself, the desperation, the vanity, the hopelessness, the need for the win. I'm not saying you have all these. These are from our deep dive on scams and from our article. Hopelessness, desperation, vanity, and the need for the win. That is what makes you susceptible to invitations like this and scams like

this. Definitely check out the article in the deep dive we just did on how to save yourself from a scam, save your loved ones from a scam. We'll link to those in the show notes. Gabe, I don't know if you have anything to add. If not, I'm going to close it out. Yeah, that's true. I think you covered it all. Man, I just love hearing this stories. They're so cringy, but they're like, you just remember how many scams and predators there are out there. Just like trolling LinkedIn for a few extra bucks. It's depressing. It's depressing because the person who's trapping you in this is also desperate or hopeless or vain and needs the win.

Everyone here is a victim except for the person who founded the scheme and a few turds at the top. That's it. So it really is sad all around. Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Go back and check out Bob Whitman on Art Crime. straight on creativity, writing, and adventure if you haven't yet. If you want to know how we manage to book all these great guests and manage our relationships, everything we've talked about today with the

networking and the job search, check out six minute networking. That's a free course. It's not, no credit cards, none of that crap. That's over on the thinkific platform, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Now, don't kick it down the road. Don't do it later. Dig the well before you get thirsty. The drills take a few minutes a day. That's why it's called six minute networking. Ignore it at your own peril. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts in the show notes. There's a video of this episode on our YouTube at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also hit me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. And of course,

my amazing team, Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel, Ms. Rahi, keep sending in those questions to Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own, and yes, I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice

that we gave here today. And in the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. A lot of folks, maybe even you, have asked me what my favorite episodes are of this show. And although it's impossible to pick a single favorite, I'm going to throw some trailers at the end of the episodes. And today, here's a sample of my interview with Chelsea Handler. This one was controversial.

She's not for everyone. But I really had a great time, and we really hit a variety of topics from microdosing cannabis to her rise in one of the toughest career paths in entertainment. Here's a quick look inside. Do you have another one of those Coke Zero? That looks really good. Is it cold? Yeah, it is. It's super cold.

It's ice cold and somebody will maybe get me in another one maybe. Kind of sorry? I don't mean to turn you into a server. But yeah. Thank you very much, everyone, for bringing that token. Isn't that nice? I never have that. You probably have that all the time.

It's so rare that I get to be like, excuse me, can you know how? How did that feel? I felt so good. It good in a way where I'm like, God, don't get used to this, Gordon. I know that you microdose weed. You're the only other person I met besides myself that does that. You're in charge of your mood. So when you take something like that, it's a mood lifter.

It's like an enhancer. You know, it makes, for me, it makes everything a little bit more sparkly. It makes everybody a little bit less annoying. And these are all things we want to all be able to engage with. Got a DUI when I was like 21, and I got in a lot of trouble because I had my sister's ID. And I forgot to change it out when I turned 21 because I'd been using it for so many years. So that caused a whole ruckus of other events because my sister was really pissed at me. I had to go to DUI school.

And in DUI class, you go for like what, 15 weeks and everybody gets up and tells their story. And I had such a fear of public speaking. You did? I did. Wow. Anyway, they forced you to do it in that class. And when I did it, I started telling my story. And all I did was tell what happened.

And it was ridiculous. Like, everything I do was always just in a very immature. You know, I called the coper racist. We were both white. I mean, everything that, you know, that doesn't make sense I did. The class was just, like, laughing. And I was on stage for, like, 14, 15 minutes. Until the guy was like, no, this is not stand up.

Get off the stage. Like, you're enjoying this a little bit too much. And that's when I was like, wait a second. I like this. For more with the one and only Chelsea Handler, check out episode 216 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard,

so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts

and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter,

why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews, because it's consistently interesting.

So if you want another show that scratches that, I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.