The Jordan Harbinger Show - 427: Sister’s Neo-Nazi Boyfriend Raises Red Flags | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: November 6, 2020

Your sister's new boyfriend is a flag-waving neo-Nazi who admires what Hitler did for "his people and country." And even though she insists he's somehow one of those rare non-racist neo-Nazis, she herself has cut off contact with previously close Black and Jewish friends. How do you help her see why all of this is so wrong and counter to your inclusive upbringing? We'll tackle this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/427 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Tune in on Friday, November 6th, 13th, 20th, and 27th at 2 p.m. Pacific through the Stereo app (available on iOS and Android) to hear Jordan and Gabe gab live! "If a decision is reversible, the biggest risk is moving too slow. If a decision is irreversible, the biggest risk is moving too fast." -James Clear How do you get your sister to see why dating her new neo-Nazi boyfriend and alienating her formerly close Jewish and Black friends is wrong on so many levels? You're about to become an officer in the US Navy, but you're worried your commitment to teetotaling will ruin your chances of bonding with your shipmates. How can you balance your desire to abstain with the need for a social life on board? You're honored to be the best man at your friend's wedding, but you're not too keen on going to the planned bachelor party in the middle of a pandemic. How can you get out of it without jeopardizing your friendship forever? You've been reconnecting with old friends and colleagues thanks to the exercises in our free Six-Minute Networking course, but is there a good way to recommend the course without giving away the fact that it's why you started reaching out to them in the first place? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my partner in prescription, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We turn these fascinating people's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission here on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a deeper, understanding. of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, sometimes even inside of your own mind. If you're new to this show, on Fridays we give advice to you, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long format interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs and athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. If you want to know where to get started, the advice episodes are great, sure, but if you want a selection of featured episodes with some of our favorite guests and popular topics, go to Jordan Harbinger.com. We'll hook you up. This week, Gabriel, the episodes were bonkers. I had this guy on Anthony

Salvatore Luciano Raimondi, okay? Lucky Luciano, right? Ring a bell? Name like that. He was the enforcer for one of the major crime families back in the day in the 60s, 70s, 80s. His stories are absolutely bananas. First of all, when you have four names and they're all Italian, holy, right? It's going to be insane. And in addition to that, I'm trying to just sort of like manage expectations here. Okay, without sounding hyperbolic, he has done major, major heists. And his crew was involved in assassinating the pope. I'm sorry, what? Yeah, I know. His crew was involved in assassinating a pope. Uh-huh. Sorry, which installment of the franchise is this? Or is this, this is actually in the

interview? It's in the interview. into book that you read and then confused it with the interview? I know. No. He literally, and he's like, maybe we did. Maybe we didn't. Maybe the guy just died randomly when I was in the Vatican with my cousin talking about how to assassinate the book. It's bonkers. I'm telling you. Like, I've never heard anything like this. And at first I was like this, when they pitched me this guy, I was like, eh, not going to do it, obviously full of crap. Then I talked with other people I know that were in the, like, convicted, you know, mafiosie. And they're like, yeah, I knew him. Real guy. Like real stuff.

Oh, wow. So they, like, vouched for him? That's crazy. Yeah, like, Sammy the Bull was like, yes, I know him. Wow. I know who he is. Definitely a real guy. Does he still go by the enforcer? No, I mean, we do. He's got a thing that we call the enforcer, but he was the... So the enforcer is like a title in a crime family. I didn't know this. You have boss, under boss, an enforcer. I thought all mafia guys just killed each other all the time. There's actually a subset of guys that are enforcers. Like, you might have guys that beat up other guys, and you might have guys that kill him.

other guys, but there is one or two guys in each crime family, and they are the enforcer, and they are the person that gets the call when somebody's got to go. It's always one or two guys, always. So he's terrifying, is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. He got in the studio, and he was like, do I got a witty's headphones? And I was like, yeah, are they uncomfortable? He's like, yeah.

I'm like, well, can you deal with him? He's like, not particularly. And I was like, you got to wear him for like two hours. And he's like, all right, fine, whatever. And it's got to be, sorry, it's got to be scary telling the enforcer to wear uncomfortable. You sit there and you wear that headphones, those headphones. You might be the enforcer, but I'm the enforcer of the headphones.

I'm the host. You sit there and you, and you are going to like it. I enforce decent audio quality, sir. Just put on the headphones. I got to enforce audio quality on this episode of the show. Yeah, so he had this cane. Of course he did. And at the end of the show, he's like, the cameras off,

or the cameras off, or the cameras are on. I can see you, but they're not recording. He takes the cane and he draws this big ass sword out of the cane. And I'm like, it's like, it's so illegal in Manhattan. He lives in Manhattan. So illegal. That didn't happen. That actually happened.

Ridiculous. Yeah. He's got a sword in there. And I was like, do you need that? Can you even use that? He's like, how talented you got to be to stab somebody? It's a fair question. Yeah.

Probably moderate to not very talented. I would say the bar is low for killing someone with a cane sword. A close range. Yeah, with a cane sword. Yeah, close range. Exactly. Anyway, so go check out the enforcer from this week, two-part episode. I also write every so often on the blog.

My latest post is if you're too busy to respond, you're doing something wrong. It's about all the excuses that people make for being unresponsive by email, why that type of thinking is deeply flawed, and how it's probably holding you back in your life and in your career and in your relationships. I know Gabriel, a lot of people, they think, like, oh, I'm too busy for email. The most successful people I know are great at it. Yeah. That made me sort of step back and be like, why are Ray Dalio, Mark Cuban, Stephen Schwartzman,

why are they awesome at email in all these like kind of struggling influencers are terrible at it? What's going on here? So we sort of dissected that. Yeah, it's a great question. I love that. All the articles are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash articles. As always, you can reach us for this episode of the show, these Friday advice episodes, Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

If there's something you're going through, any big decision, you're wrestling with or you need a new perspective on something, life, love, work, whatever, how to deal with your dad's bio, which we had a couple weeks ago. Whatever's keeping you up at night these days, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Even if you've already gone through a crazy situation, you just want to know what we would have done. We're down to offer another take. I know sometimes these hypotheticals can be interesting and useful for other people as well. So don't think that your question's boring. Please do, though, keep your emails as concise as you can. Try to include a descriptive subject line. There's a, that inbox is littered with the subject of feedback Friday or advice needed. That just makes our job a lot

easier. And we do keep every letter anonymous. You don't have to tell us to do that. You can try and think of a name for yourself, but Gabe's pretty good at that. So we'll let him have that. Now, something that I thought of recently, because somebody was talking about Eric Schmidt, former chairman of Google, who was on this show, episode 201, if a decision is reversible, the biggest risk is moving too slow. In other words, if you can take it back, a lot of people will overthink it, they'll move really slowly, they might miss the opportunity. If a decision is irreversible, the biggest risk is moving too fast. If you can never take it back, if it happens, and then it's over, then you have to be more deliberate. A lot of people confuse this, right? They think,

like, oh, should I try this? Should I try that? I don't know. Should I spend 10 bucks on this? Should I spend money on that? I don't know. Should I concentrate on this? Should I concentrate on that? A lot of people deliberate way too much on things that are reversible. Just do something, and then you can change course later. And then, of course, there's a lot of people that spend almost no time deliberating about something that is irreversible, such as how to spend four years of college,

and they don't deliberate that at all, and they just kind of pick something thinking they can move or pivot later, and that's harder. So that's episode 201 with Eric Schmidt, former chairman of Google. I don't think he had that as a quote in there, but it was a principle I took from the episode,

and I wanted to throw that in. That'll be linked in the show notes, episode 201. By the way, if you ever want to get to an episode of the show, Jordan Harbinger.com slash and then episode number. So Jordan Harbinger.com slash 201 will take you right to episode 201, and that works for every episode of this show. You don't have to know the name and Google it and find it.

You can just use the slash and then the episode number. Although the odds of you remembering the episode number, slim. But if you're listening to one on your phone and you want to tell somebody else about it, you don't have to tell them the name or anything. Just say Jordan Harbinger.com slash whatever episode number, and they'll go right there to the webpage with the show notes. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Hello, guys.

About two months ago, my 23-year-old sister met a guy on Tinder and they started dating. About a week later, she told my family that he is essentially a neo-Nazi, a skinhead, and even has a swastika tattooed on his arm. My European family and my friends are very diverse, and there has never been a hint of racism in our upbringing. I'm so horrified that she could continue to date someone with so much hate in his heart. At the same time that she met him, her two best friends, one who was black and the other Jewish, each had a baby, and she completely stopped seeing them

and checking in, which has ended their friendship. She's tried to tell me that her boyfriend is not racist, he has multicultural friends, and he just really admired what Hitler did for his people and his country, which I think is a load of BS. She hasn't done much research on the history of this and is also into absurd conspiracy theories researching with total confirmation bias. She's been in an abusive relationship in the past, but she refuses to get help or therapy because she thinks it's more effective to quote unquote bottle it up. I've tried to create a loving environment for her and just ask why she has these beliefs, but I end up getting emotional and telling her how wrong it is. I'm now worried that she will isolate herself even further and possibly

get entrenched in some of these hateful beliefs too. How would you approach this situation, signed stopping my sister's Nazi Bay from leading her astray? I'm not a licensed therapist, but I'm going to go ahead and say that bottling it up is never a good strategy. You know, it's interesting to hear someone say this because doesn't everyone know that bottling it up is bad? So when people say this, Gabe, I'm sort of thinking, is that the cry for help? And they go, no, I'm just going to bottle it up. Stuff it down. That's my strategy. Yeah, I'm going to choke it down. All that hate. I read on the internet that you're supposed to just stuff it. That's it. That's it. Yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense. Also, let's talk real briefly about what Hitler did for his country. He got millions of

them killed. He got cities bombed into a Bolivian, destroyed a ton of the history, marred their name for a century and counting after the fact. Oh, and then opted out by blasting his brains out after the fact because he didn't want to face any consequences. What a hero. But hold on, hold on. I mean, he was pretty good at manufacturing. He was good at manufacturing. I think that's what she's referring to, probably their heavy manufacturing capability. I think that's probably, yeah. Of course, yeah. What was I thinking? Naturally, they were thinking of the innovations made in mechanical and optics. Yeah, they're also well known for their coffee machines.

So I just, that's true. Credit where credit is due. That's true. He's got a swastika and an espresso machine tattooed on his leg. And, yeah, oh, good Lord. All right. Well, okay, first of all, I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I can only imagine how disturbing it must be to know that your sister's dating someone

like this, especially with a friend who's black and Jewish. That just shows me that this, her heart is not in this. One day, she just swipes right. And a week later, she's Zeig Heiling with Edward Norton. from American History X. I just think it's incredibly sad. Not just because your sister's involved with somebody who holds these views, but because you feel like you're losing her to an ideology that she clearly does not even fully understand. I don't even think she understands it a little bit. All she understands is that she's got to ditch her other friends for this yodel. And I'm really

glad that you reached out because what you're going through here, it's obviously very personal. This is your sister. It's your family. But it's also something tons of people around the world are going through right now, especially as white supremacy and conspiracy theories are undergoing a resurgence, which candidly is just baffling, given how flawed and insane these theories really are, and how little they stand up to any sort of scrutiny, scientific or otherwise. And by the way, we're talking about neo-Nazis and conspiracy theories, but what your sister is involved in, it's very similar to all extremist ideologies out there, whether they're religious or cultural or social or whatever.

So look, the latest research into why people gravitate to white supremacy and to any extremist ideology, really, the latest research, what it shows is that it's not really about the ideology itself, but about the psychology of the person who is drawn to it. In other words, it's never really about the movement, almost never. What it's about, it's about what the movement provides to its members. And in almost every case, the people who fall into these movements are extremely vulnerable individuals. Vulnerable how you ask?

Well, there are usually people who feel alienated to some degree, people who don't have many relationships that give them meaning and connection, people who are hungry for acceptance and belonging as a result. So like gangs, essentially, right? They end up finding all of these things in a movement that speaks to their fears and to their desires. So fears on one hand, desires on the other. Their fear of being marginalized, their anxiety.

about being inferior or alone, their desire to feel valued and validated and powerful. And yeah, the particulars of white supremacy, whether it's Jews cause all the problems in the world, or black people don't even have a place in this country, or white people are inherently superior and need to lead the way. And by the way, the white people who usually say this have like five teeth and zero education. So seriously, just look online. Whenever I see these picks, I'm just thinking like, behold, the master race. Look at this guy. You know, he's like doing a kegstand and trying to catch what's left of his teeth with like a ripped wifebeder. I mean, they're just never high quality individuals. The top rung of this ladder is somebody that you would never associate with. It's just disgusting. And these specific beliefs clearly hook into these fears and desires. But what all of the research shows and what almost every ex-No-Nazi says, they say that the ideology that was never.

what actually drew them to the movement. What drew them to the movement was the need to belong in the first place, okay? Christian Picchiolini, we had him on the show, episode 317. He's been on a couple of times, actually. He wrote a book called Breaking Hate. We'll link to it in the show notes. That's exactly how he explains why he became a neo-Nazi. He was the leader of one of the largest skinhead gangs in the United States, probably in the world. He talks about how he recruited so many people to the movement before he finally left, he didn't do it through ideology. He did it through vulnerability. He didn't hit people with a bunch of racist dogma. He lured them in with the promise of acceptance, period. And that actually squares with how you described your sister. You said that she hasn't done much

research into the history of Nazism, obviously. She's into conspiracy theories. She follows her confirmation bias. That tells me she isn't really engaging deeply with her boyfriend's ideology. It's much more about subscribing to a community. We talk about this in the episode with Mick West. Gabe, if you could find out which episode number that is, Mick West on the show, him and I talk about on that episode, why it is much more about, who I know something other people don't. Oh, we're in an underground community of people.

It's all about community and belonging. And this guy, he makes her feel like she's part of something, even if it means losing her close friends and now maybe her family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was episode 363. Okay, we'll link that in the show notes as well. Mick West, M-I-C-K-West, not Nick, M-I-C-K, Mick. In your sister's case, though, it's even more complicated because she's dating somebody who is super committed to this stuff.

She's found a romantic partnership within the ideology, within the club, so to speak, which means it's probably serving her need to feel comforted and protected and special in a lot of different ways. Plus, she's been in this abusive relationship in the past that you mentioned, She doesn't believe in talking about it, whatever that means. So she's suppressing and repressing a ton of baggage. And there is a lot going on with your sister besides this past relationship or this latest relationship. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

But it's worth calling it out because this is why you're having so much trouble getting through to her. My sense is that she doesn't want to be gotten through to because if she did let you in, she would feel extremely exposed and probably pretty ashamed. Look, her best friend was black. Her other best friend was Jewish. She knows this is bullshit, okay? This sort of exposure, these are precisely the feelings she is trying to avoid by hitching her identity to this new Nazi moron and possibly this movement of fascist dipshits that they hang

out with, okay, online or elsewhere. So given all that, Gabe, how does she get through to her sister? Well, the short answer is that it's going to be really, really hard. And with your sister, I think it's going to be even harder because she's very, as Jordan pointed out, she's very defended. You know, she's not drawn to reasonable intellectual discussion, plus she's falling for this guy. She doesn't want to lose him by even going near this stuff. I bet you're probably going to be threatening her source of love, her identity, her very sense of self. And in many ways, it's like talking to a cult member or a religious extremist. Like we said,

these movements share so many elements. There's just too much at stake for her to consider another point of view right now anyway. But it is definitely worth trying. So here's how I would do it. In general, I would try to talk to her about what she's thinking and how she's feeling these days rather than talking about the beliefs that she holds themselves. Because the beliefs, those are going to be very hard to work on for all the reasons that we just said. But how she's feeling and what she's thinking, you know, that's something you might be able to make some progress on. You could ask her how her mood is these days, how work is going, what her relationship with this guy is like. Invite her to open up with you as much as she can, as much as she's willing to.

And get her to talk about her experience without trying to attack. the ideas that you find so distasteful. You will have to work very hard to not interrogate her or judge her in these conversations, which is difficult. Let's just acknowledge how hard that is. It will take some practice. If you can stay in that place of curiosity and empathy with her, I think you'll start to build some trust and rapport between the two of you, something I bet she doesn't feel a lot of these days. And if she does eventually open up to you, then she'll also open a window for you both to look at some of her beliefs without threatening that whole sense of self. Hopefully, what she'll start to reveal in these conversations is just how vulnerable she really is. Now, you can guide her there,

but I would be very gentle about it. It'll probably be pretty tempting to steer her to the conclusion that you want to hear, which is some version of, yeah, I'm terrified that I'm irrelevant. And my boyfriend gives me a sense of love and superiority or, you know, I'm too afraid to challenge his gross beliefs because then he might leave me, right? Like, it's going to take some time for her to arrive at those conclusions. You have to resist the urge to push her there. But if you're patient with her, If you let her talk, if you mirror back what she's saying to her and help her along, she might eventually say something like, I don't know, I don't really feel like I have a direction in life right now, or I never really felt understood until I met John, this guy, or I have trouble making up my mind, something like that. And if you ask her to explore some of those comments and get to the root of them, she might eventually say something more fundamental like, I'm really lonely, or I don't really know what I believe. Or, and this is what I'm suspecting will eventually happen, she might say something like, I just feel like there are very you people who will ever really love me. Look, people don't seek out trash-ass neo-Nazi simps for relationships.

They settle for them when they feel like they have no other options. That is what I think is going on here. She didn't go find this Prince Charming and go, oh, crap, he's also a neo-Nazi. She just found some bottom barrel guy who would pay attention to her. And she's like, this is where I'm going to get my self-esteem because she has low self-esteem, low self-worth. And then she goes, this is the only guy that's going to like me. I have to take his flaws in all because he's taking my perceived flaws in all.

And what she's thinking is, I'm unlovable. This guy's going to love me. It doesn't matter if he's a neo-Nazi. I have to play along with that because otherwise I might lose him. That's what I think is really going on. Yeah, let me not question the beliefs too hard in case I drive him away slash let me subscribe to the beliefs to keep him closer is probably the dynamic. Exactly.

I mean, look, it would be different if this person had racist beliefs their whole life or early on and then she finally met a partner in this group. she was already in. This is a woman who had a black and Jewish best friend and then meets this dipstick on the internet or whatever. And then suddenly is like, yeah, I believe in all this Nazi stuff can't hang out with my friends anymore. That is just pure low self-esteem. And when you put it like that, it's encouraging because it means that she didn't have this very gradual and deep conversion to the beliefs, but that she quickly adopted them in the context of this one relationship. Exactly. So if you can drive her to this point in the conversation, like I said, it's probably

going to be several conversations over a longer period of time. But if you can get her to that point where she starts to acknowledge these more core beliefs at that point, you could ask some follow-up questions like, do you think dating John makes you feel less lonely? Or is that why you've been reading up on all these theories online? theories, you can say, you don't have to call them conspiracy theories, but you can ask her if that's why she reads up on them online. So do you know, do you do that because you want to know what to believe? You'll definitely want to keep asking questions rather than telling her what you think so she doesn't feel attacked. That's the big thing she probably is of in the conversation. But what you're really trying to do here is create a safe space for her to feel

understood and to reflect on what she actually thinks, what she actually feels, not what she's been fed by someone else or what she feels she has to believe, but what she really does believe. But you're also encouraging her to take responsibility for these views and to build a better relationship with you, to build a stronger sense of self. The more you can draw her out and make her feel supported while she does that, the more I think she's going to provide the answers herself. and that's what you really want, because ultimately, that's the only way she's actually going to change. And if somewhere in here, you could convince her to talk to a therapist, that would be huge, because she has a lot of stuff to work through, stuff that predates this latest boyfriend,

and that is probably very old and complicated, I would guess. And without that help, it'll be pretty hard for her to see herself clearly and get better. So that's something to keep in mind. I wouldn't lead with that. Like, hey, you really need to talk to strength because this shit is cray. But if she does start to open up and realizes how difficult it is for her to wrestle and sort through all of this stuff, that would be a nice moment for you to say, hey, that's exactly why people talk to somebody. Have you ever thought about that? Because the problem, to me, Gabe,

it sounds like her sister's not very willing to open up from the sound of it. Yeah. Right. This is like, she's not just going like, hey, I want your help getting away from this tough situation. She's like, look, man, I finally found somebody. Just leave me the fuck alone, right? That's kind of what I'm feeling. And that's why this is probably going to take a lot of work and patience on her part, the writer's part, before this starts to pay off. Or she, you know, this sister might never open up. And if happens, then you're going to have to let your sister hold the beliefs that she wants to hold and date the people that she wants to date. And you're going to have to bear the anger and the sadness that come with allowing someone you love to do something that you profoundly disagree with.

And that is where values and boundaries become really important. And a lot of deprogramming experts, they talk about this, how you have to be empathetic with people like this, how you have to be patient, how you have to be understanding, yes. But how you also have to hold people accountable for their views and how you have to know what you will and will not tolerate from them. In other words, you have to balance your compassion for somebody with your integrity. So you might decide that you'll sit there very patiently while she yammers on about everything Hitler did for his country, how he helped, you know, start Krupp or whatever and how they now make wonderful coffee makers that are in your kitchen or whatever. Is that really a German company? Is that where you got

that from? I never got that reference. I'm pretty sure that's a German company if I'm remembering high school. I just want to make sure we're not like slandering this poor company that's like, dude, we're not Nazis. I'm not saying that Krupp is a Nazi company. I just think that I'm pretty sure they were founded. Yeah, it's a 400-year-old German dynasty from Essen. So I'm going to say that. So it was well before Hitler.

Well before Hitler, but I believe that we're getting way off on a tangent now. But I think that they were pretty. I just don't want to get sued. Yeah, I think they were pretty powerful during the Nazi regime. But that's fine. I'm just saying you can sit there while she talks about that. But if she starts talking about how black people need to just get over it or how Jews invented the Holocaust so they could move to America and take over the media or whatever,

then you know, you might decide you're going to call that out. Maybe you'll say, listen, I find what you're saying right now extremely misguided, extremely hurtful, and I just hope you do some research before you say stuff like that and then change the topic. Or you might say, look, I'm sorry, but I can't be part of this conversation and then just politely leave the dinner table. You know, that's up to you. That's something you are going to have to decide for yourself, how much you're willing to put up with from her and her boyfriend, if he comes to dinner. I don't know if he does, if he's welcome. And how you want to handle that stuff, it arises. But whatever those boundaries are, whatever they are for you, that's really important.

So I would take some time to get clear on them if your sister refuses to change. It's a look who's coming to dinner, 2020 version. Yeah, exactly. Look who's coming to dinner. Oh my God, is he black? No, he's a Nazi. It's way, like, it's the opposite. We're flipping the tropes on the head for the sequel. Exactly. Yeah. No, 2020 edition of that movie. Oh, my God. Can you imagine the parents in this situation? Just being like, so we hear you think The Holocaust is made up. Mm-hmm. Do you want to talk about that, Anders?

Do you like green beans? Yeah. Okay. So, but once cheesecake. Yeah, what do you do? I heard you guys went to a, was it a rally on your first date? How was that? Yeah. What do you even do?

Like, no common ground whatsoever. So awkward. It's so awkward. The guy sounds dumb as hell if his defense is, Hey, I'm not a Nazi. I just think you did good things for his country. It's like, have you read any history at all? I mean, that's such a shadow belief to hold.

Like, yeah. That's something people say with. they're like smoke screening what they really believe, I think. Of course. It has to be. Because you can be like, look, can we just acknowledge that they were really good at manufacturing? Nothing else. It was all terrible.

But they were really good about that. Like, that's so different from saying, I really admire Hitler for what he did for his country. It just makes no sense. It doesn't make any sense. If you look at any objective history or any even, even history written by people who are neo-Nus, like that was a calamity of epic proportions for the German people and for everyone in Europe. Period. There's no way to look at that that rewrites that. There's just isn't. No non-delusional way. Jordan, do you think that she should stay close to her sister, even if the beliefs get really bad?

Yeah. So I wanted to chime in on that as a final thought. Like, I would definitely stay close by waiting in the wings, right? Because the wheels are eventually going to fall off this crazy relationship. She needs to know that she hasn't lost you, that she has somewhere to turn because this is a person who already feels lonely, hence her dating this weirdo. If she feels like she's lost you and the rest of the family, there's going to be no escape from this guy who's potentially abusive. And I don't mean he beats her. Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. But at the very least, somebody with this set of beliefs is going to be emotionally abusive. Yeah. Yeah. At the very least, there's going to be gaslighting and other kinds of crap happening. She should be the Catherine Oxenberg to her India, Oxenberg. I will never understand your references. They're always way over my head.

That's from the vow, which just wrapped up its finals. I haven't seen that yet. Yeah, yeah. It's the docket series about nexium, and there's a plot line about a mother trying to get her daughter out of this cult, and it's heartbreaking. Oh, the actress, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I saw them interviewed. So, okay, so yes, you need to stay close by because if she loses everyone, she's going to wake up one day and be like, I have to get out of here, but everyone hates me now.

Right. She has to know that you're still there, even if you think her fake belief system that she's adopted is a bunch of crap, which it is. She needs to know that in the middle of the night, as much as you guys have fought over this, she can call you and you will come pick her up and take her somewhere where this psycho can't come and find her. That's what she needs to know. Oosh, that was heavy. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back.

And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. All right, what's next? Hi, Jordan and team. I'm a 21-year-old female who recently completed a degree in theoretical mathematics, which is every bit as horrid as it sounds. I've been working with a recruiter and just got approved to become a surface warfare officer in the U.S. Navy.

If all goes as planned, I should attend Officer Candidate School in a couple of months and be on a ship as a naval officer before my 22nd birthday. I'm a people person with a large and diverse network and I am stoked at the social and professional possibilities that the Navy holds. Here's the catch.

I don't drink. I am a deeply religious person who quit drinking about a month ago. I don't believe there's anything morally wrong with it, but I've decided to hold myself to a higher moral standard, something like a stoic vow. My first question is, how do I explain this to my future naval companions in a way that is concise, honest, and not condescending? I own my quirky personality, but the last thing I want is to come across as judgmental.

I don't want to give a cop-out answer like, I can't have just one, or it's a medical issue. Those aren't true and paint me in a negative light. And obviously, I'm not going to say, well, you see, I made this vow to God, because that's weird and awkward and frankly no one cares. What should I say? My second question is, how do I keep up with my peers socially and professionally without going drinking with them? I turned 21 in quarantine and am virtually illiterate in bar culture. Is it acceptable to go to a bar and just get coffee or soda water? Is it realistic for me to plan on being a perennial DD? Thanks so much. T-totaler or T-totally lame? So D-D-designated driver, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. Well, first of all, huge

congrats on all of these incredible accomplishments. Theoretical math degree at 21, naval officer before you're 22, serious about relationship building from a super young age. I mean, I love this. You should be really excited about the career that's ahead of you. I don't even know you. I'm already super proud of you. So look, I'm probably not the most qualified person to give you advice about being a teetotaler, seeing as I'm answering this question with a high noon hard seltzer in my hand. but I'm not a full-blown alky, okay? I go through long periods, aka the rest of the week,

and for a month at a time when I don't drink at all. And I normally don't drink really myself, which is, I think that's important, and I actually really love that because I'm not Paris Hilton, circa 2009. I think I can share some advice here. Basically, I think you're maybe overthinking how much you need to defend your non-drinking.

Yes, it's probably out of the norm, especially in the Navy, where a lot of people tend to drink to unwind and deal with the stress and probably also the boredom. But it's not completely unheard of to not drink, and I don't think that's something that will get in your way. You're right, though. The way you handle this, that's going to play a role in how people respond to it.

And if you come across as judgey, finger-waggy, your fellow officers might think you're a judgy prig who thinks she's better than everyone else. You really don't want that. If you don't say anything at all, they might assume you're a little bit of a passive-aggressive killjoy who isn't one of the guys. So I think you need to come up with something short and direct that walks the line, but not in a way that sounds

like you're defending your choice too much, because you really don't have to. What about something like, I used to drink, but I just don't like the way it makes me feel? Because that's true in the sense that you really don't like how it makes you feel morally and religiously, but it doesn't force you to go into the whole story. It doesn't sound judgmental at all. It's really just about what you prefer. I admire how much you want to answer this question, honestly. I think that also says a lot about you because the real easy answer is, oh, it runs an alcoholism,

runs in my family. I got to be careful. No, thank you. But since you're not doing that, you really want to tell the truth, there's something to that. The truth is, anything short of I don't drink because the good Lord told me not to, and I'm trying to walk his glorious path, is not going to be the whole story. So I think you'll have to get comfortable with sharing a version of yourself here that is true enough for you to say without feeling like you're compromising your integrity. You know me. I'm not religious at all. If you've been listening to the show, you know me, I respect that you are and I respect that you want to adhere to those beliefs. And even if you said you don't drink because you hate it and it's evil, that's your

prerogative as well. And I don't think anybody should judge you for that either. If somebody pushes you to drink after that, you could say, look, no, trust me. I've tried it. It is just not my thing. If you say that all with a smile and zero judgment, most people are going to leave you alone. And if you feel like they feel awkward about it, you can always throw something in like,

hey, it doesn't bother me if you all want to drink. Honestly, enjoy that beer. still totally hang. I'm actually more fun when I'm sober. Trust me, it's all downhill from here. You know, just have a laugh about it. Make sure they know you're not judging them. I think that's even more important, which like you said, you're not really judging them in the first place. Gabe, what about the second question here? I know you don't drink really at all, right? Yeah, not very often, but I enjoy it from time to time. But it is a good question. How do you keep up with your peers without going drinking with them? Yeah, absolutely. You can totally order a coffee or a

Canada dry at the bar or whatever. A few people might notice and ask you about it. A few of them might even rib you a little bit, just knowing how military people like to rag on each other for fun. But if you explain it with that simple line that Jordan just shared and you don't judge them, then I think you're going to be totally fine. But you know what is interesting? I get the sense from this letter that she thinks that she has to drink in order to be liked by her peers or in order to belong, which, look, I get it. It's the military. You're young. It makes sense that you would think that. I'm sure there's an element of that that is true. But I wonder, if you feel like people won't want to be your friend or won't take you seriously if you're not

exactly like them in every single way. It's not enough that you're super smart and driven and interesting and respectful, which you clearly are. Like if you don't shoot a bunch of Jim Beam with them, they'll ice you out or something. And I'm not saying some people won't do that. Maybe they will, but those people will not be part of your tribe. Like, they're just not people you really have to worry about. But as you think about how to have this conversation, try not to put too much stock in the whole drinking thing. I think you might be discounting who you are as a person as you try to figure out how to fit in with these new people. Because your peers, they're not going to respond to you just based on whether you get crunked with them every weekend. They're going to respond to you as a person.

They're going to respond to you as a leader. So don't be afraid to share that personality with them, teetotaling and all. The more you feel like you need to hide, you know, or apologize for who you are, the more people are going to pick up on that. And that ultimately is going to be a bigger obstacle to building good relationships with them than just being different in this one ultimately minor way. Other than that, I think you have an amazing career ahead of you. Like, I'm so, excited for this person. Her letter was dope. She has like an amazing background. She has a cool career heading up. I'm excited. And I think not drinking is probably only going to help her. It's not going to hurt her. There's no part of me that says, I wish I drank more at any point in my life.

In fact, I didn't even drink that much in college. I started drinking when I started running my old company because that's what all the guys who worked in the company were doing all the time. And then I was like, hey, this is bad for me, but this is literally all we do. So I guess I got to do it. And then I was like, oh, I do this all the time to get over anxiety. And then I told my mom about some quote unquote funny drinking stories. And she's like, you know, we have massive alcoholic problems in our family. Like my grandfather, great grandfather, da, da, da, da. And I was like, no.

And she's like, yeah, you falling asleep on a car, not funny. Like, that's not a funny thing that happens. Wow. That particular instance was kind of funny, but things like that are not funny. Yeah. You know, so now I'm like, I'm a one or two hard-seltzer kind of guy. And when people are like, dude, do Sean. with us, I'm like, you don't want Jordan after shots. It's not like fun. It's not wild Jordan. It's like,

and I don't get aggressive or anything. I'm just kind of like cranky and I'm like, where's the freaking booze? You know, like I turn into like some version of some dead relative I have, I'm sure, who was really a bastard, you know, like a drunk bastard kind of guy. And again, I'm not aggressive, but it's not the finest version of myself. It's not the funnest version of myself. So if that's the version you're trying to avoid, you're not going to lose out on any fun. There's, there's so much fun to be had sober. Waking up in a good mood is always good. Waking up before 11 a.m. is always nice.

You know, you get a lot more time in your day and you don't do things you have to apologize for later on generally. So good luck. So true. Especially in the Navy where I bet your sleeping schedule is all off. You're probably like grabbing sleep wherever you can get it. You're waking up at odd hours. You have to be responsible for a ton of stuff.

Like, no thank you. I don't want to have to deal with a hangover on top of all that. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. What's next? Hey guys, I'm the best man at my friend's wedding. He has planned a bachelor party in Arizona next month, and I'm having massive anxiety about attending. My fiancé is in the middle of her graduate program and has a six-week clinical that would be occurring the same time as the bachelor party. If she were to get sick during this time, she would have to push back graduating for an entire year. We have discussed quarantining myself from her, but there are no easy solutions. I'd really like to talk to the groom about not going to the bachelor party due to my immense discomfort, as well as not potentially jeopardizing my fiance's clinical. The groom and his future wife have not taken this pandemic

seriously from the jump, and they have not been able to comprehend why we have been so cautious this entire time. What should I do? If I do decide to not attend the bachelor party, how can I let the groom know without potentially ruining our friendship? Signed, not a stand of this madman stag plan. Ooh, boy. Well, I am sorry that you're in the situation. Having to choose between attending your friend's bachelor party and, you know, being able to breathe normally for the rest of life. There are a lot of people in your shoes right now. I've had to turn down invitations to trips and parties and a few people have gotten pretty mad at me. I know other people who have been afraid to turn down invitations and then they caught the Rona. So you are not crazy. This has got to be

one of the hardest parts of the pandemic. Staying close to people who have a very different attitude towards quarantine and caution and medical advice and science. It's tough. I get it. You know, so here's my take. If you don't want to go to this bachelor party, do not. go. It is absolutely fair for you to skip it. More than that, it's probably the right thing to do. Your friend might take issue with that, but that is his problem, man. You have to do what is right for you and for your fiance. You have several great reasons to not go. You don't want to get sick yourself. You don't want to pass it onto your fiance and compromise her education. This isn't about you guys being down for a week, maybe. That raises the stakes significantly, Gabe, I think. Because it's like,

if she gets sick, it's another year where she cannot earn money. Think about all that law. salary and that lost time and having to study and keep her studies up during that year so that she can do the clinical again so that you can go to Vegas for three days? No, no, no, no. You don't want to be another vector in this pandemic, especially as new hotspots emerge. The trajectory is worsening around the country, around the world, according to the latest data. You can point to all of these and be secure in your decision. You can't point to these to your friend because they doesn't seem to care and take it seriously, but that's what makes this the hardest part, right? Dealing with the groom's reaction. So how do you like that?

him know without ruining your friendship. Well, I'd call him or write him in an email telling him why you can't come to the bachelor party. Tell him how badly you want to be there, how much you are looking forward to it, how difficult this decision was for you, and tell him that you don't expect him to agree with you, that you respect that he wants to handle this differently, but that for you, it's just not a risk that you can take right now. I wouldn't get into a discussion about how the virus works or the pandemic data or anything like that. He obviously doesn't know, doesn't care. Just tell him that you'd be kicking yourself if you got COVID because of the trip. Definitely mention your fiance and her clinical. That should take some of the heat off of you.

Tell him you love him. Tell him at you're thrilled to be part of his wedding, but you just cannot hit an indoor steakhouse or a casino and a strip club in downtown Phoenix, whatever it is, in the middle of the Pantney D. Also, don't use the phrase Panny D. I think I'm going too far right there. Anyway, I'm proud of you for going there. That's my stance on that. It sounded so good coming out of your mouth. When I read on the internet, I cringe, but I love that. I just committed right there. That was great. Anyway, after that, reiterate that you're looking forward to the wedding. You're looking forward to planning tons of trips together when the pandemic is over.

And if you do that, it'll be really hard for him to get mad at you. You're not defending your position. You're not judging him. You're not dropping him as a friend. You're just saying that you can't go on this trip. I would understand this if I were in his shoes. Maybe he's less understanding. If he turns on you for that,

there are deeper issues in the friendship you'll need to sort out. But I am hoping that you can both accept each other enough to keep your friendship even if you disagree. I mean, assuming you still want to be friends with this guy, I'm sure differences in opinion about the Pandy are probably the leading cause of friendship breakups right now, which makes sense. But this is not a lifestyle choice. This is a question of values. Gabe, anything else? What am I leaving out here? No, excellent advice. I 100% agree. What I'm wondering is what happens at the wedding? When is that? Is that going to be safe? Like, is it going to be in an outdoor botanical garden somewhere or in a poorly ventilated party room, you know, in some Phoenix restaurant or something like that? The VFW.

I don't know. Like, are you planning? Is this guy planning on attending the wedding? Because that worries me just as much or more than the bachelor party. But if he's agonizing about how to decline the bachelor party, then he's probably going to have a real tough time dropping out of the wedding, right? Unless he goes for like 15 minutes and does a killer best man toast about the dangers of COVID and gives Dr. Fauci a shout out, drops the mic and bounces. Like that would be a pretty epic speech. Yeah, that's going to put the cap on the end of that friendship, I think, right there.

I mean, is this like a bachelor party that's happening in the next three weeks, then the weddings in 18 months after there's a vaccine? Or is this, are these two things coming right after? I mean, I don't know. There's a larger conversation coming, I think, here. But as far as the bachelor party goes, 100%. If you don't want to go, do not go. And you're in the right.

You're good. This is the Jordan Harbinger show. And this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right, last but not least. Hey guys, I've been doing the networking exercises from six-minute networking, and some of them have resulted in longer emails and back-and-forth's reconnecting with older friends.

I'm extremely happy to be making the connections, especially during COVID. My question is, is there a good way to recommend the six-minute networking course to these friends and connections without being weird and giving up the game that six-minute networking is why I started reaching out in the first place? On one hand, I feel like it's an unfair advantage that I want to keep to myself, but on the other, I feel like it's too valuable not to share. What are your thoughts? Signed, Chance to Invest or Close to the Vest? First of all, nicely done on running with the course and making all those connections. That is fantastic. I love that six-minute networking is now this secret superpower that people have to decide whether or not to share.

But you know, great relationship building, it really is kind of a superpower. There are people who get how powerful it is to have a killer network, and there are people who don't, and those people are playing by a completely different set of rules. So I get why you're torn about whether to let them in on the secret. Should you share the course with people? Well, here's how I think about it. One of the overarching principles of relationship building, at least how I do it, is generously investing in the people around you.

If sharing six-minute networking with somebody is a form of investment in them, which it is, then that can only be a good thing. You're helping them get better. They're helping other people get better. Both of your networks grow. Now you're both part of each other's circles. So they owe that to you. It's a win all around.

You both increase your circles. The collective circle is bigger. That said, before you share the course with everyone you meet, you might want to make sure that they're actually interested in uping their networking game. In your conversations, you can feel out how they're doing. Are they totally unaware of how important relationship building is? Are they decent networkers but they want to take it to the next level? are they trying to find a new job and struggling, but they don't know why? If so, then you can say,

listen, I've found out about this online course. It's totally free. I think you'd love it. It really helped me. Here's the link. I think that might go over better than just sending the URL to every person that you're in touch with. And besides, people who actually want to improve, even if they don't quite know how, those people will respond to your investment more positively. As opposed to people who aren't really interested, and then they open the link and they go, oh, this is why she reached out. She's following some course. She's trying to get me to sign up for this course. Whatever.

No thanks. So the bottom line is sharing your networking strategies is never a zero-sum game. That's kind of the point. There's no way you lose when someone else builds better relationships. To me, it's just like teaching someone a skill or sharing an insight with them. They're better for it. You're better for it because you help them grow. So share away.

Just do it with people who share your interest or could share your interest in building the best relationships possible. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Go back and check out the guests from this week. The two-parter we did with former mafia enforcer Anthony, Salvatore, Luciano, Ramondi. Have a listen if you haven't yet. If you want to know how I got all these guests on the show, it's all about the network.

We just talked about six-minute networking. That course is free. It's over on the think-ethic platform. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Don't wait. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Once you need relationships, you're too late to call on them. You got to do them early, man.

Come on, these drills take a few minutes a day. Ignore it at your own peril. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. This has been crucial to my business and my personal life. It's all for free, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. A link to the show notes for this episode are found at Jordan Harbinger. com. Transcripts are in the show notes.

There's a video of this feedback Friday episode going up on the YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. Or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can also find Gabe on Twitter. at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with podcast one. My amazing team includes Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird,

Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabe Mizrahi. Keep sending in those questions to Friday atjordanharbinger.com. Our advice and opinions and those of all the guests on the show are their own. And I'm a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice

we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. I wanted to give you a preview of one of my favorite stories from an earlier episode of the show. Megan Phelps Roper, she used to belong to one of the most hateful religious cults in America, the Westboro Baptist Church. She was born into this church, and she later escaped. To hear her tell the story firsthand is really incredible.

I started protesting when I was five years old, but even at that first picket, there was a sign that said, gays are worthy of death. So God Hates Fags is what Westbro's message that we became known for. We were the good guys, and everyone outside the church was evil and going to hell,

and we had the only message that would bring the world any hope. We had to go and warn people. These terrible things are happening, and if you want this pain to stop, then you have to change because God isn't going to change. After the September 11 attacks, we had the sign that said, thank God for September 11. What were we thinking? This massive crowd comes down.

We were at this corner of this intersection of these three streets. By the time they actually reached us, we're just enraged. There was no space between us and them. It got really dicey. One of my cousins gave his signs to somebody else and started standing on top of a trash can, pretending like he wasn't with us. They were, again, incredibly intense because obviously the circumstances are so sobering. It brings me incredible sadness to think about now.

I can't do this forever. My family, they would refuse to have any contact with me at all once I left. Somebody that we had confided in, sent a letter to my parents and told them that we were planning to leave. And then that email came in and we left. For more with Megan, including the details of her harrowing experience, and escape, check out episode 302 of the Jordan Harbinger show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time.

If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast, focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. recently they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think

the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting.

So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and Start listening. You can thank me later.