The Jordan Harbinger Show - 443: Kidnap Me Once, Shame on You | Stereo Sunday

Episode Date: December 6, 2020

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, "Kidnap me once, shame on — shame on you. Kidnap me — you can't get kidnapped again." But Jordan doesn't know any better because he comes from Michigan, so he's actually been kidnapped twice. Here, Jordan tells the story of that second time. Here, We Talk About the Time Jordan Got Kidnapped in Serbia: Kidnapping victims don't always live to tell the tale. The reason Jordan is still alive after being kidnapped (twice) is due to the fact he saw security expert Gavin de Becker on Oprah discussing what to do in just such a seemingly unlikely situation. After almost getting kidnapped in Mexico in 2000, how did Jordan find himself in a position to get kidnapped in Serbia? How did Jordan escape whatever dire fate was surely awaiting him at the dreaded second location? What are your best chances for staying alive if you ever find yourself in a similar, unenviable condition? Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/443 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you do. get your podcasts. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. If you're new to the show, we have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional journalist kidnapped by pirates. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. Today, we're talking, uh, well, actually, the two times that I've been kidnapped while traveling abroad. I figure now's a good time to do that

because nobody can really travel abroad. So I can talk about something really scary, Gabriel, and people aren't going to be like, dude, really? Too soon. You can talk about it without crashing American Airlines stock. That's right. Yeah, it's already crashed. You're welcome. Boom. Some of the most insane experiences of my life, obviously, some of the most valuable in a way, especially because I lived, probably would have sucked if I didn't, obviously. This is our fourth episode of Stereo Sundays, it's a little experiment we're doing sponsored by the stereo app. We might be live again next Friday or the Friday after. We're not sure yet. They've got to sort of inform us what's going on, renew the campaign, et cetera, but download the stereo app in iOS or Android. Follow along with us

live next time. You can also catch these episodes in the feed. Some of you are actually doing that right now. And again, you can listen to us live inside the stereo app by grabbing it from the app store. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you're hearing this in the podcast feed, then in Q for we did a few of these Stereo Sundays live. Hopefully we're going to do more in December and or in 2021, because it is a lot of fun. If you're wondering how we managed to book the guests for the show, we have a networking course that works at home. It works for your job.

Networking is one of the major, major reasons that I run a successful business right now, and I'm teaching you those skills for free at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And by the way, most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course, they subscribe to the newsletter, they contribute to the course. so come join us. You'll be in Smart Company. Again, we did this live in the stereo app. It turns out this went really long during the live session, so we're actually going to turn this into two parts.

This first part is my getting kidnapped in Mexico story, and then part two will be me getting kidnapped in Serbia. So you get a two for here. Dual Kidnap Stories back to back, one week after another, here on Stereo Sunday. Now, Gabe, this is a weird topic. Yeah, it's a little different. It is.

Yeah, my experience getting kidnapped not once, but two times, a few years apart, talking about what happened and what I learned from those experiences. And also, you know, for me, I want to talk about what lessons other people can possibly use, because I think one of the reasons I'm actually still alive after this is because of a lesson I learned, I'm not even kidding, on Oprah in like 1994 from a guy who's been on the Jordan Harbinger show named Gavin DeBecker. He was or is Oprah's bodyguard, well, personal protection security specialist and he works with like Jeff Bezos and all the sort of super famous people that you know of that are protected by private security you know any big time CEO they all use Gavin DeBecker's

people or people that used to be with Gavin De Becker so he's like the security guy and he's really really a smart interesting guy he wrote a book called the gift of fear and I had seen him on Oprah talking about this and one of the tips that we'll get into in a bit here was one of the reasons I think I got out of there in One Piece. Hmm. And Gabe's going to be kind of doing a reverse interview on me today. Yeah. And I actually haven't heard these stories.

I heard one of these stories years ago. I haven't heard both of them told in full for a long time. So I'm excited, actually. Jordan, a lot of people know if they read your bio or they've heard you on other podcasts that you were kidnapped, not once, but twice. It's kind of like a famous fact about the old, uh, J.H. Mm-hmm. But most people haven't actually heard like how you found yourself in that situation,

and how it actually went down, how you got out. So we thought we talked about that today. So I guess let's start. Take me back to the year 2000. You're in Mexico. Why? So I was an exchange student in Germany in the late 90s, and I loved it, and it was like this massively formative year for me.

And I learned everything from negotiation to haggling to why our freedom as Americans is valuable, because I lived in the former East Germany, where they were communist, like not even 10 years before I got there. and it was like a totalitarian hellhole in a lot of ways with the Stasi and Secret Police. And I was just, I went to college after that. And college, the first year, was kind of this disappointment where it was just like high school with like jocks and bullies and stuff. And I thought like, this is so dumb, but at least I'm getting a good education.

And then it would be like, memorize the skull shapes of these australopithecines. And I just remember thinking I learned so much more working and studying abroad than I did in that first year of college. So my second year of college, I went to Israel. And in Israel, I was like, you know, this is going to be great. It's a different type of experience. I'm so excited about this. But the second intifada, which is like the Palestinian uprising, the second intifada started while I was there. I was in the old city of Jerusalem and there was a riot starting because Ariel Sharon, who is the prime minister at the time, I think, he went up to the temple mount in Jerusalem. If you didn't know

where that is, it's like a flashpoint for Arab Israeli violence. There was a riot. me and my Jordanian roommate, we escaped because every time we would run into like Palestinian violent sort of gang youth, he would say, we're Arabs in flawless Jordanian Arabic, and they'd be like, all right, fine, get out of here. And then anytime we saw Israeli police, I would go, we're Americans. And they would be like, oh, okay, fine, get out of here. So we ran. Because it was basically like, okay, if they're brown, you talk to them. And if they're white-ish, I'll talk to them. And if they're in the middle, it just depends if they're wearing a uniform and how dangerous they look and he's like, great. You know, so basically we were just running out of there and thought,

okay, it's a little dangerous. My parents were freaking out, and it didn't end in a couple of days. You know, it's arguably lasted for years and it's still potentially going on. It's still going on, yeah. So I went to Egypt. I did a bunch of backpacking in Egypt because it was cheap and it was right next door and I saw a bunch of cool stuff. And then the semester was starting to wind down in all of the universities that were in the United States that had sent students to Israel, they canceled their programs. So like all of my friends left. And then it was...

And so sorry, you're studying abroad at the University of Michigan at this point? I was studying at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and then I basically just enrolled at Hebrew University in Israel on my own. On your own? Okay, got it. So you're just like, I'm going to just pursue my own course of study

and maybe I'll make my way back to Michigan at some point. Yeah, pretty much. And I didn't drop out of school at Michigan. I just went on like a sabbatical or whatever you call hiatus. You know, when you're a student, they don't even care. They just assume you're depressed. or something and you're just out.

Or just enjoying a little antifada. I'm just enjoying a little uprising. I mean, come on, don't judge, right? Once Michigan stayed and Michigan and all these other programs canceled their Israel programs and everybody was called home, my parents were like, look,

these other universities are calling everybody home. You have to come home. And I go, Dad, it's October 27th. I can't just come home and be like, hey, I want to enroll in classes at Michigan. And he's like, why not? And I'm like, they started two months ago, first of all. Right.

So I would just be, he's like, come home and work at a movie theater. I'm like, uh, hell no. You know, work at my old job, like, tearing tickets at a movie theater just made no sense at all. So I was like, nah, I'm going to go to Mexico because I knew that in Mexico there was a Spanish language program that I'd had my eye on for a while. And I thought, you know, I can learn this now. And it's a private language school, so they're not going to care when I start.

I'm going to have my own teacher. So I flew from Israel back to the United States, I think, but I can't really remember. And then flew to Mexico pretty much right after that. and stayed in like a private home in Mexico. And I took Spanish lessons every morning from this teacher. And it was kind of this miserable, lonely time in a lot of ways. But Mexico is also really a trip. So I had a lot of really fun, cool experiences.

And you're in Mexico City at this point? Or you're in a... I was, at that time, I went to Guadalajara first. As you do. As one does. Yeah. It was a pretty chill town. Now it's one of the most dangerous cities in Mexico,

because there's a new cartel there called... Nueva generation, new generation, and it's like super violent drug cartel. Sounds like a boy band. Definitely not as fun as a boy band. Yeah. And then I got a job at a non-profit, and the nonprofit was in Mexico City. And they were supposed to find me a family to live in, like a host family. And they just couldn't.

So I stayed on the roof, literally, where there was like a makeshift bedroom of this home that these old people owned where the daughter happened to know one of the guys that I worked with in the nonprofit. And she worked at the presidential palace. She was like, I don't know exactly what she did, but she worked in the middle of the city. So they hook you up with a place to stay

because nobody else, they couldn't line something else up for you. You're living on the roof like some B character and narcos. Totally B character and narcos. Yeah, like an NPC. Yeah. At night, what are you doing besides you're studying and you're working a little bit? But are you going out?

Are you enjoying the city? Like, what's the scene? Good question. I am going out a lot. And it's funny because I did an episode with Ed Calderon that's not out yet for the Jordan Harbinger show. And he's a cartel violence expert and a former Mexican policeman. So we talked a lot about this.

So I'll keep this to the short version because you'll get a longer version during that episode. But I was, I wouldn't say looking for trouble, but I was very keen on seeing all that cities had to offer that wasn't just like art museums and like tourist crap. Right. So I stayed in some growth. hotels and that were like $13 a night. Those are the greatest hotels. Yeah, yeah.

But like, you know, shared bathroom scenario, like geckos on the wall type hotels. Although maybe in Mexico City, not so many geckos. And I went to markets that were kind of like the cops didn't go in there. And if they did, it was to buy illicit substances, not to enforce any laws. So I would go to Mexico. It's called El Tapito. And it's like this ancient market that's in the middle of Mexico City. But it was probably there before Mexico City was, and it's like this defensible area.

And there they sell everything from counterfeit Chinese handbags to there's prostitution there. You can buy weapons there. You can buy pharmaceuticals there of all kinds. You can buy those Santamuerre statues and stuff there. You can even go do like literally, you can do like blood sacrifices there for creepy sort of like drug cartel saints and stuff. Or like Santa Ria stuff and... Yeah, Santomwerite, yeah. So you're kind of...

Okay, so it's like IRL Silk Road. Yeah, exactly. It's like an in real life version of the Silk Road. Like, you can go there and it's not like, hey, man, you want some weed. It's like you're just seeing it out on tables. Right, right. It's just out and about. Okay.

So you would... This is sort of like, these are the places you would frequent. Right. Yeah, you wanted to know the real Mexico. You didn't want to stay at like the four seasons. It was, funnily enough, one of the places where everyone said, don't go there by yourself. And I was like, I'm going there tomorrow.

And I went there like every day to explore. And what was funny was it probably was ridiculously dangerous for me to do that. On the other hand, I think people thought that I was either a narco or a cop or some kind of crazy person because I was a white guy who at the time, I was working out like twice a day. I didn't have much else to do but eat carneasada and work out twice a day. So I would go there and hang out. And I think people were kind of like, ugh, this guy's probably trouble. Right.

Because he's alone in El Tapito and he's like this jacked young white dude who is either crazy and doesn't know he should be here or knows something that I don't and nobody should mess with this guy. Right. And my Spanish was getting better and better. And, you know, you don't talk much when you're at markets. So there were a couple of women that were like, wait, where are you from? And I'm like, United States. And they'd be like, oh, my God, I just thought you were a Mexican with light eyes.

Because, you know, you get a tan after a while and you say a few. words in Spanish that are more or less how you're supposed to speak and, you know, people think you're Mexican suddenly, especially when you're in the hood. Where to no tourists ever go because they either don't know about it or every guidebook says don't set foot in this place unless you want to get your wallet slashed or something like that or your face. So I'm guessing we're working our way toward the kidnapping. Funnily enough, nothing ever happened to me in El Tapito. Totally fine and uneventful. That's the point of this subplot. Okay, got it. You're like, I put myself in danger, nothing happened. I went to go get like some green smoothie from Whole Foods. That's where I got

snatched. 100%. Yeah, yeah, minus the Whole Foods part. You're pretty damn close. Yeah. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I know that networking is a cringy gross word these days. I wanted to build a course that would help inspire other people to develop a relationship with you. Not a course that does it in a way where it seems salesy, but in a super easy non-cringe down-to-earthway, nothing awkward, at least nothing too awkward. And it's built for introverts as well.

So it's all online. Don't freak out. I'm not going to ask you to go give talks on stages or go to mixers. It just takes a few minutes a day. And many of the guests on the show already subscribe and contribute to the course. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And now back to the show. So I'm staying on the roof of these people's house. And there's these buses, like school buses, and I forget what they're called. Somebody will tell us in the chat probably.

But whenever you go to Mexico, and in fact, whenever you go anywhere in South America, there are these little buses that are basically decommissioned school buses that are now private city buses. So they're not city buses as in their own by the city, but there are city buses as in they drive to neighborhoods that are not served by the city. So like favela, barrio type neighborhoods. Yeah. And pretty much any neighborhood that's just not close enough to like a legit bus stop.

And what's funny is they're always airbrushed really well. And that's how you know which bus it is. It's not like, hey, this is Route 27. They have that too. But they also, it's like, oh, I like the one that has the giant mural of Mariah Carey on the side that says Mariah and Hot Pink. spray paint, right? So I'm always taking these same buses, and they stop around, you know, 9 p.m. or something. So one day, my friend, who's German guy, he goes, let's go to this bar. It's downtown in the center of Mexico City. I'm like, great. I go outside and there's no buses running,

and I'm in like Banana Republic chinos and a nice light blue dress shirt, and I get into a taxi. and the taxi is a green Volkswagen beetle, just like all Mexico City taxis are these green Volkswagen beetles. And I get in the car and I go, oh, excuse me, I don't have cash. I need you to take me to an ATM close to our destination. And he goes, no problem. Because I just didn't have any cash with me at the time, which is interesting because I probably wouldn't.

I think I had like just enough to pay for the school bus version of getting there, but not enough for the taxi version, which is probably three, four times the price. And so he goes, no problem. Mexico City, now, it's shaped like a bowl, and in the middle there's statues in the presidential palace where the woman whose family I lived with was working. So I knew that area quite well. That's near where El Tapito, you know, all these like main areas of the city are.

And on the outside of the bowl, the higher elevation areas are the areas where I live, where there's neighborhoods, and then above us, and on the outside of the bull is like less and less and less developed and more and more kind of sketchy further away from the center of town. And there's a lot of pollution up there too, because the air quality is so bad. You're kind of like in the smog layer. So I noticed we're driving up instead of down. And I go, hey, man, you know, I'm going down there, what's taking so long. And I thought, like, maybe there's traffic, but there wasn't really. And then he drops the first red flag. And he goes, there's traffic or there's an accident. And I was like, how do you know? This is before cell phones. It's the year 2000.

Yeah. And then he goes, well, let me just get directions. And that was like a major hit you in the face red flag, because if you are a cab driver in Washington, D.C., and someone says, take me to the White House, you don't go, hang on, let me ask for directions. If you're in New York and someone says Times Square, you don't say, oh, man, I need to get some directions. You know, if you've been there for a day and a half, you know how to get there. So if you're a cab driver and you know the city like the back of your hand, you shouldn't need directions for anywhere, let alone one of the most popular areas in the entire country of Mexico.

Not a good sign. So not a good sign. And, you know, we're lucky that we didn't have cell phones because if I'd had Instagram, I probably would have just been like, whatever, and scrolling and then been like, where the hell are we? But I was looking at the window the whole time, and I thought, we're just not going in the same direction. You know, I've been here for a couple months at this point already. I know where we're going and where we're supposed to be.

And this is not it. And he's being more and more strange. Like, suddenly he doesn't understand my Spanish questions. And he's turning the radio up. And I'm like, can you turn that off? Like, I'm trying to talk to you now, and he's like, oh, relax, signior. I'm like, I'm kind of not relaxed. And also, you seem to notice that I'm not relaxed.

What's the deal? And so just a bunch of little things like that started to freak me out. And I tell him, look, just take me back, you know, drop me off here. He's like, no, I'm like, I'll pay you. He's like, I thought you didn't have any money. I'm like, dang, you got me there, you know. Yeah, you're stuck with this guy. I'm like, take me back.

I've got cash in my place. He's like, no, we're almost there. And I know that that's not true. because now we can't even like barely see the city lights at all. So I'm like, uh, this is bad. You know, we're in like a favela area now. This is like a slum kind of area. This is not, not good.

And he's like, we're almost there. So I realize now that he's up to something. And we stop in front of this like cinder block house. And people are going to go, why don't you jump out and run? I couldn't get out of the car. I thought about stopping at a red light and just like bolting. but the lock, this is the ultimate red flag, the locks in the back seat were broken.

Oh, God. I don't mean, like, physically broken, like I tried the door and they didn't work. I mean, you know, on old cars where the lock would pop up near the window and then it would go down into that little hole? Yes. This car had had the locks put up

and then cut as low as they could and then so that when the car was locked, you couldn't reach the lock to pull the lock up. Oh, my God, that's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, so you're stuck in this car. And I thought, like, Maybe they're broken because you'd see old cars like that a lot with like broken locks.

You'd see that. But the fact that these were both broken on that side was a little weird. And also that they were both broken in the same way made me think it was kind of deliberate. Right. And I was like, uh-oh, I'm in like a kidnap taxi. That's the moment when you're like there's definitely something off at this point. Like I am not in a good situation. I am in trouble.

Right. And this is before everyone knew that there was like this. to go and grab foreigners and take them to like five ATMs at knife point or gunpoint and then leave them in the street after withdrawing the maximum daily amount, you know, of money. And I'm hoping that that's what this was, but, you know, I'm getting ahead of myself here. By the way, we're doing this one live on stereo in the stereo app that's in the Android or iOS app store. We'll link to it in the show notes. So he stops and I said, sir, just keep going, don't stop here. Because I knew, again, no cell phones, right? So I knew that if he gets

out here and I'm stuck in the car. This is where he goes and gets like three huge guys from this shanty town and they both get in the back of his cab or like, who knows, right? This is the secondary location. And that's one of the tips that we'll talk about in a minute. This is bad. So I slide from behind the passenger seat. I slide behind the driver's seat and I go, sir, please don't get out. Just keep going. I don't feel safe here. And I put my arm between him and the door because I figure I can stop him from getting out. And then, you know, that's all I've got right now. Ideally, we would never have even gotten to this place, but it's too late for that. So I decide, all right, I'm going to block his exit from the car if he tries to make a fast move.

He didn't notice that my arm was between him and the door. He had no idea. So he's like, sir, calm down. I'm like, drive. Just keep driving. And he's like, calm down, relax. I'm going to just go in and grab my friend and get directions. And I was like, okay, so you do know somebody that lives here. That's even worse. You know, you're not stopping to look at a map. You're telling me you're planning to get out of the car. Right. Yeah. So I go, no, keep driving anywhere but here. I don't like it. I don't feel safe. And at that point, he makes a fast one to try and open the door, but I have my hand kind of between his seat and the door. So I'm ready to slide my arm forward. Again, I'm 20 years old at this point. I'm 40 now, so this is a while ago. 20 years old at this point, I work out twice a day

and all I eat are, you know, carneasada tacos and drink protein shakes. So I'm 209 pounds of lean, angry teenager or just almost, you know, used to be a teenager last year. And he's like 50-something, sits in a cab all day eating fast food. He's a slob and he's not strong. And I'm half his, not even half his age and very strong. So he tries to get out and he can't. And I throw him right back into the seat with one arm and I reach around the seat with my other arm, you know, over the console area between the passenger seat and the driver seat with my other arm. And I put him in a choke that is nasty. Like I had my wrist bone of my left hand over the bridge of his nose and I had my entire

forearm over his mouth so he couldn't breathe. Wow. And I slipped my right hand, which was over his mouth, down over his neck and I put him in a sleeper and I put him to sleep with a car seat between me. And if you've ever put anybody in a sleeper hold, it's pretty tough to do, and it requires a little bit of muscle to do right, especially if the other person's struggling. To do it with a freaking car seat in between you, you have to squeeze extremely hard because otherwise you- I was about to say, like, you had to be in crazy good shape to pull that off. I was extremely strong.

You know, I was in panic mode. So I put like- Crazy muscles. I had, yeah, crazy strength. I had berser mode, right on. And so I squeezed him so hard that he stopped me. moving, which is what happens in a sleeper hold, and I sort of let him go, had to crawl between the two seats, which is not easy, open his door, push him out of the car. I tried to drive the car, and I couldn't. It was a stick shift, but not only that, it was a stick shift from 1968 or something

like that. So I'm trying to drive, and, you know, there's a clutch, and there's a trick to the clutch, and I'm massively shaking from adrenaline and freaked out and looking for other people who might have seen what happened, you know, and luckily he didn't scream or get the horn. I mean, I put them out probably within a few seconds. There's nobody around in this area that you're standing in, right? No, and it's dark out. It's like 9 p.m. Right.

So, no one saw it. Thank God. So I take the keys out of the car. I threw the keys. I should have kept the keys, but it doesn't end up mattering. And the reason I should have kept the keys is because I didn't want him to chase me in the car. So I threw the keys thinking, first I tried to drive one way in the car. Couldn't.

Then I threw the keys thinking I don't want him to just get back in the car if he wakes up in 10 seconds and come and chase me and find me, you know, with three months. other guys. Yeah, smart. But I should have kept the keys because, you know, what if he found the freaking keys? You know, I don't know. Anyway, I threw the keys and I ran back the way we came, but I was miles and miles away from where we really had come from. So I finally get to like some semblance of a main road. I think it was like, I think they call it like periferico or something. I could be getting confused. I think it's like a ring road. That's a big ring road, yeah. Yeah, okay. It may have been that or I may have just seen a sign for that and then thought it was that.

Again, weird memory stuff 20 years later. This episode was recorded live on stereo in the stereo app. You can go grab that in the iOS app store or the Android app store, and we'll link to that, of course, in the show notes. You got to a main road, that's the point. And so there's like traffic and people around. Yeah, there were no people, but there was traffic, and nobody would stop for me. And at this point, realize I had my hair like bleach blonde or something because I was, you know, 20.

I was wearing a Banana Republic blue button-down shirt. I remember it really clearly. I was soaked through with sweat because I'd been running and freaking out. And it was hot, you know, it's 1968 VW taxes. There's probably no air conditioning in it. And I'm wearing like dry clean only cream colored chinos, you know, or off white chinos that I assume are soaked. And I'm in the middle of the hood or at least damn close to it. So no one's like, let me stop and talk to that guy.

They were like, what is this methed out gringo doing here? You know what the hell? I'm starting to understand why you didn't get jumped in that market earlier. I think so. I think I just looked like a crazy person. So finally someone stops in there like, what's wrong? Because it was so obvious that I was panicking and freaking out and like jumping up and down and waving my arms. And it was an older guy and a younger woman who I thought was his daughter in 2020 hindsight, probably his girlfriend, because that's kind of how these things were all sometimes in Mexico.

And I vaguely remember the guy was a doctor because he was like, are you hurt? And I was like, no, this guy tried to kidnap me. And he goes, what? And I was like, look, I'll ride in the trunk, just get me out of here. and the girl said something like, we can't just leave him here because he was like, hell no, I'm not putting this guy in my car.

I was like, I'll ride in the trunk. Yeah, he's like, oh, this guy's about to kidnap me. Right, he didn't know what was going on. It was just too weird, but the fact that I was yelling in English and like terrible Spanish, he just knew that it was, it just didn't add up.

It was just weird. Right. So I said, look, I'll ride in the trunk. I think that was enough for him. He's like, get in the back seat of the car. And he just starts driving. He's like, where do you want me to take you? I was like, police station.

And he goes, ah, okay, how long have you been in Mexico? I was like, uh, like four months or something. And he goes, let me tell you something. Never go to the police if you have a problem like this. In fact, don't ever go to the police. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he's like, no one's told you this in the few months that you've been here. I was like, no, I've never had any problems. He goes, there's a very good chance that if you were kidnapped, because I kind of gave him a rundown, you know, that if you were kidnapped, either the police were in on it and they are fully aware that this gang operates here, or, you know, they could just decide that this is a

kind of problem. And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, where's the cab driver? And I was like, oh, I told you, I had a scuffle with him. And he goes, where is he? Why didn't he chase you? And I was like, oh, he's unconscious. And he's like, are you sure he's only unconscious? And I was like, I'm starting to see where you're going with this. Oh, damn. That's intense. Yeah, because he's like, look, what could happen is I could take you to the police. They might be in on this. They might take you back to that gang and be like, give me 50 bucks. Right. Right. Or maybe they go and they look and that cab driver is still laying in the road where you murdered him in self-defense, and now you have to prove that to a bunch of corrupt cops.

With broken Spanish as a gringo in the middle of a foreign country that you're just visiting where you don't know the people or the rules. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm like panic mode. And I'm like, holy shit, right? I don't want to deal with this. So he goes, I'll tell you what.

I'll drop you off at a subway station. I don't want to know where you live. You mean like to get a sandwich? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. To talk to the sandwich artists. Those people are very good at advice. these types of high pressure situations.

You need a six foot long. Yeah, I need a $5 foot long. So he dropped me off at a metro station, and I take that and I go home, and I'm like covered in sweat. I shower up and everything. I tell my German friend, hey, I can't make it. Sorry, I emailed him. I couldn't call him.

We didn't have cell phones, you know? I emailed him like, hey, I know you're probably standing around alone for hours and really pissed, but here's what? You know, I got in some trouble, and I'm moving. And he's like, what? And I tell the woman. via note that I live with are this old people and the woman that I live with that I'm going to move and that it's not them and that I ran into some trouble and I'm really sorry and you know blah blah

and I basically like straight up went to the bus station like immediately. Wow. And found a late overnight bus that went to Guadalajara and I just bounced and I moved. Just like that. I moved. Oh, instantly I moved. Because again, people were telling me, organized crime. What if they know who you are? What if you drop something in the cab that identifies you. What if you told the guy where you work? Like, what if they just see you in this neighborhood where they picked you up? And they're like, here's the guy that murdered my uncle last weekend, right? Who knows? Right, right. So I was like, I'm out. So I moved immediately to Guadalajara from Mexico City. Damn. Back to Guadalajara, I should say. That is terrifying, but it sounds like it ended up okay.

Yeah. You obviously never heard about this guy after the fact, so you don't really know what happened, but you made it out okay. Right. I don't really know what happened. And I, I didn't go to Mexico for a really, really long time after that. And when I did, I ended up calling some people that knew some people that knew some people. And I was like, can you run me through the national crime database of Mexico if there is one and find out if there's like an outstanding warrant for me? Right. And they were like, sure, okay, nothing. Great. It was just one of those situations. Because I was like, hey, I don't want them to be like having looked for me for five years.

Totally. You don't want to show up at the airport in DF and they pull you to the side and say like, shake a cab ride. Are you this guy? Were you here in 2001? Cool. You're under arrest for the murder of this, you know, cab driver. By the way, good job on getting rid of those blonde tips. This is a much better look for you, but. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't recognize you because you don't have a douchebag hair cut. Exactly. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes are all in one place.

Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals is where you can find them. You can also use the AI chatbot to find deals and promo codes. Just go to Jordan Harbinger.com, use the AI chatbot and ask it for the promo code. And hopefully we'll come up with our promo code. Thank you so much for supporting those who support us. And now, back to the show. So looking back on that experience, all these years later, 20 years later, right, what did you take away from that briefly?

And I know we have to get to another story, which is, I suspect even wilder, than the one you just told us. But looking back, like, if there were, like, a couple of things, what did you take away? So the first thing is the lesson that I learned from Oprah slash Gavin DeBecker, which I talk about in his episodes on the show, Gavin De Becker, we'll link to those on the show notes as well. The first thing is, never go to the secondary location.

That's the prime lesson. If you are getting kidnapped or abducted or taken someplace against your will, you fight right then and there. I don't care if they have a gun and you're in a parking lot and they're telling you to get in the car. you fight right then and there if they're trying to take you hostage. The reason is that's where they have the least amount of control and the least amount of privacy. So it might seem like you're in trouble because you're in a dark parking lot at a target,

you know, with very few people in it and you're getting told to get into the car. That's the best place because once you're in the car, there's no one else, you're moving fast. It's easy for them to conceal you. It's easier for them to conceal their firearms or their knives. if they get you to the secondary location, that's the proverbial place where nobody can hear you scream, right? That's the safe house

where I assume I was outside of in Mexico City. Like, that's the place where in the basement, they've got a soundproofing basement. There's no neighbors. They've got chains cemented to the walls, you know, or place to dispose of your body.

Totally. Or, whatever it is, right? Or if you're lucky, it's where reinforcements are that take you to a bunch of ATMs and you're basically unscathed after they rob you. But I don't know.

Like to this day, was I going to get robbed and taken to three ATMs and withdraw $600 in the left in the middle of nowhere? Or was I going to get chopped up slowly into little pieces? I don't know. Yeah, and you don't want to stick around and find out. So never go to the secondary location. Okay. The other lesson is a lot of, we have this map in our brain. And I don't know exactly what this is called, but it's like a, there's a fallacy for this, Gabriel, where when you experience something that is outside your normal, not your comfort zone, but your normal level of experience,

you often don't know how to identify it. And what I mean is when I was in the car, if I'm really honest with myself, I knew that I was probably getting kidnapped like 10 to 15 minutes before I did anything significant to stop the actions. And then I dilly dallyed and talked myself out of it and sat on the fence for a while until it was just so obvious that this guy had taken me somewhere and was trying to get out of the car to get help. So you have to be really careful.

because your brain will sit, and this is what I remember this conversation. Again, it's sort of like the magic of memory, so I'm not sure this happened in the moment, but my 20-20 hindsight says that it did. I remember very distinctly now having this conversation in my head that went something like, hey, I've never been kidnapped before, so why would that be happening now? And then my other part of my brain went, that makes no sense. Right. Just because you've never gotten kidnapped before, doesn't mean you can't get kidnapped now. When you were a virgin, you hadn't slept with a woman before, and now you have. Like, what do you mean? That's what experience is. That's what life experience is. And then I go, well, I don't really know. Nobody's really talked about this. And then it was like, well, maybe people who've been through this situation and didn't get away are dead. Oh, man. And that's why you haven't heard about it.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a small audience that you can learn that from. Yeah. Right. Like there's survivor bias, and it's called survivor bias because of literally situations like this where you only hear from people that survive. Right? Where they go, oh, it's fine.

Just go to the ATM with them and they'll let you go. No sense getting cut. And now it's like, okay, everybody else who got cut into little pieces slowly and tortured to death for Santamuerte blood sacrifices is dead and doesn't come out the other side to tell you. So it's survivor bias. And I remember having these conversations in my head, not in so many words, you know, not using like cognitive bias and things like that, but I just remember having this like one voice and then the other voice and going, well, maybe that's not true. Am I just doing that because I don't want

to accuse this guy of something? Yeah, I kind of am. Well, if I escape, how am I going to do it? Maybe you don't need to escape. You're overreacting. Okay, but if I'm not overreacting, I should have a plan. You know, that whole thing was going through my head. And I'm not saying you should live in fear and always have an escape plan. But what I am saying is, you know, when you're in an unfamiliar situation and you start to get hebi-gibis, listen to those hebi-gibis, put your freaking phone away, which is what most people will do.

They'll start scrolling on Instagram to distract themselves. Oh, good point. Or they start looking at their email to distract themselves. I didn't have that luxury because there were no mobile phones. So I was alone with my thoughts, and my thoughts were getting worse and worse and worse and worse. and it would have been really easy for me to just bust out my phone, bust out GPS, or like call my friend and chat on the way. You know, I would have done something like that instead.

And I think the reason I'm alive or the reason I had nothing happened to me is because I did not do that. So you really do need to listen to your gut when it comes to these sorts of things. Now, your intuition might be wrong, and you might go, oh, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge people who have face tattoos. You know, maybe he's just a guy who's turning his life around or something like that. Why be wrong for the sake of being woke, you know, or why be wrong for the sake of making yourself feel comfortable for an extra 15 minutes on your taxi ride? If you're getting a weird feeling, do something about it.

And if you're wrong, you're wrong, and who cares? I'm just glad I heard this because if I ever find myself in that situation, you better believe I'm going to be thinking, like, pay attention to that voice. Like, don't discount that. Don't look at Instagram. You can check your meme accounts later. Like, time to pay attention to what's happening right in front of you. because I don't know if I hadn't heard a story like that, I don't know if I would be able to trust that voice as much as I would now.

Exactly. That's a really good insight. Once again, thanks to the stereo app for making this possible for us. You can grab the stereo app in the iOS or Android app stores, and we'll link to it, of course, in the show notes as well, just as we always do. Thanks for joining us. A lot of times what I was thinking when I was in the car was this probably isn't happening. And I sort of touched on that, right?

It's wishful thinking. Just don't roll the dice. Make waves. your impulse is going to be like, just be cool, just be chill. That's actually how you die. Yes, you should be calm so you can think clearly, but there's a lot of social pressure that goes into this. And I remember the guy saying things like, relax, what do you think I'm going to do to

you? And I'm like, oh, yeah, you're right. And then I was like, wait, that's what manipulative people say. Why am I taking this guy's word for it? He's the one who's going to do it. Yeah. Yeah, you're the one that's going to do it. What do you mean?

What are you going to do to me? That's the thing is like, he's like, I'm an old man. What could I do? And I'm like, yeah, you're probably the perfect guy to kidnap. people because you're like an older guy with gray hair right you know of course and he wasn't that old he just happened to have gray hair if it was somebody who was it not in great shape or was sort of like talking themselves out of it yeah would have ended up sitting in the car there's a lot of people that say like oh be as calm as possible yes you should be calm but you should be you should try and not

panic that's all that that means you should actually be worked up you should allow the adrenaline to wash over you you should be using that the reason we have fight or flight when we are engaging in physical conflict, is because that's how you get berser mode. That's how you get that super strong strength to go and outrun or run. Because who knows how far I ran? I could have run like a mile and a half, right,

in like 10 minutes or whatever it was running back. The struggle, yes, I was stronger than him, but I was in absolute survival mode, and I basically crushed his windpipe with my arm and his nose. You need to channel your aggression and your excitement into getting out of the situation. Don't calm yourself down so far that you don't take action.

Right. All staying calm means is don't panic and start running around in circles and be like, oh my God, my mom, oh, what am I going to tell my mom? Like, that's freaking out. Don't freak out. But you shouldn't be like, oh, chill, relax, nothing's happening. That's not true. Right. There's productive fear and unproductive fear. Exactly. And then, yeah, come up with a plan, right? Like, I was thinking, how am I going to stop him from getting out of the car? How am I going to attack this guy, I need to. And how do I avoid a knife? Because I thought, okay, I was looking in the front and I thought, like, okay, there's no gun or knife laying around, but I don't know what's in the glove box or if there is a glove box or something else hidden under the seat. So I, when I choked him, I purposely pulled him

upwards and back so that he couldn't reach under his seat and he couldn't reach for the glove box. And yes, I thought about that in the moment, because I thought the thing that can stop me from putting him to sleep is if he has a weapon that's close at hand that I cannot see. And if he has a weapon that's close at hand that I cannot see, it's probably not in his front pocket, like his shirt pocket. It's going to be in his pants pockets under the seat, in the glove box, something like that. If I can pull him up and back and put him to sleep before he can get there, then he can't stop. So I planned all of that in my head before I went for it. Got it.

You're considering all the angles before you just act, right? And you channeling the productive fear into considering all those angles rather than just like stewing in your own panic in the back. Exactly. And whenever I tell the story, people were like, oh, did you really plan all that? Yes, I did. And I think that the reason I did that was because at the time I was doing karate and self-defense and stuff like that. And I'd worked at a security company. But none of that is like ninja moves, right? A sleeper hold is really basic. An ex-choke or whatever it was called is really basic over the bridge of his nose. And it's like, it hurts so he can't see, starts tearing up. I wanted that to happen. And I wanted him to start flailing and grabbing at my arm and not reaching down. And I knew that if I did it fast with like explosive violence, that he would then not be able to counteract that. So that was the plan. It wasn't like step left and then chop right and then karate chop the trachea. Like none of that stuff is realistic.

But having a plan to just be extremely violent in an explosive way without any warning. Because I didn't say, if you get out, I'm going to choke you. I just put my arm there. And when he made the fast move for it, I immediately went into, I turned it up to 11. I didn't ramp it up and say, hey, what are you doing, Mr. You know, I just immediately was like, okay, if he goes for the door, that is me going all the way up to 11. And if he dies, he dies.

You know, I wasn't thinking that at the time. But after I left him unconscious or I think unconscious, I didn't think like, oh, I better make sure he's okay. In that sort of life or death struggle, I'm not thinking like I'm just going to put enough pressure on him to put him to sleep like you would at a karate class. This was crush the windpipe and dump the body out of the car. Thanks for joining us live in the scene. stereo app. Again, this is part one of two. So this is my Mexico story, of course. Next week, I'll tell the

story of me getting nabbed in Serbia, which is an even more sort of involved and much crazier story. So I hope you join us for that as well. Links to everything we talked about will be in the show notes on the website. Please use our website links if you buy anything we mentioned. It does help support the show. Worksheets for the episodes in the show notes, transcripts for the episodes in the show notes. There's a video of this interview going up on our YouTube at Jordan Harbinger.com I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabriel at Gabe Mizrahi on Twitter or at Gabriel Mizrahi on Instagram. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems and

tiny habits over at our six-minute networking course, which is free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig that well before you get thirsty. Most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course and the newsletter. So come join us. You'll be in smart company. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. amazing team includes Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo,

Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's interested in getting kidnapped in Mexico, hopefully not. I hope you found this at the very least entertaining, but there's some safety tips in here that I think are worth hearing. Man or woman, young or old. Please do share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. We've got a preview trailer of our interview with Vince Beiser.

It's all about sand. You heard me, sand. It's actually quite fascinating. There are even sand mafias killing people over sand. If anybody had told me three, four years ago, that I was going to be spending my every waking hour thinking and talking about sand, I would have just laughed. It's actually the most important solid substance on earth.

We use about 50 billion tons of sand every year. That's enough to cover the entire state of California every single year. Every year, we use enough concrete to build a wall 90 feet high and 90 feet across right the way around the planet at the equator. A bunch of sand might get broken off of a mountaintop, washed down into a plane somewhere, and then that sand gets buried under subsequent geological layers and point. pushed down under the earth and compressed and turned into sandstone. And then that sandstone may get pushed up again by geologic forces over hundreds of thousands of years and worn away again and again broken down back into grains. So an individual grain of sand can be millions of years old.

We're fully eclipsing the rate of creation here. You're probably sitting in a building made of just a huge pile of sand. All the roads connecting all those buildings also made out of sand. The glass, the windows in all those buildings also made a sand. The microchips, the power our computers, our cell phones, all of our other digital goodies, also made from sand. So without sand, there's no modern civilization. And the craziest thing about it is we are starting to run out.

For more on why sand is the next petroleum-like resource and some crazy stories about sand pirates and the black market for, sand, check out episode 97 with Vince Beiser right here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast, focused format, Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask,

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