The Jordan Harbinger Show - 484: Give Bridesmaid the Boot for Political Dispute? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

Your BFF was slated to be a bridesmaid at your wedding, but she can't resist the urge to argue about politics with you, your fiance, and anyone with whom she disagrees. Now you're wondering: should you even invite her to the wedding at all? We'll dig into this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/484 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Your BFF bridesmaid insufferably loves to argue politics to the point that your fiance can't stand the sight of her. Now you're wondering: should you even invite her to your wedding? Even though you helped your dad build a multi-million dollar business, your long-distance girlfriend's old-fashioned parents don't approve of your relationship. They don't see what you've done as an accomplishment, just that you "work for your dad." What can you do to improve your relationship with people who might someday be your in-laws? You tend to interact with people in a way that some consider being too informal or familiar. Sometimes your sense of humor just doesn't seem to hit the right note and you wind up offending more often than making people laugh. Is there anything you should be doing to make a better impression? Your girlfriend is a magnificent writer, with a master's degree in English, pursuing a career in publishing. Unfortunately, her lack of success in landing a job has sapped her confidence; she won’t reach out to friends and family for support, and is terrified to ask for help. She's even opposed to therapy thanks to bad experiences in the past. What can you do? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my comrade in consultation, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions the

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He's a regular on the program, if you've been with us for a few years here. We talked about why unlearning and knowing what you don't know is a superpower, among other things. I mean, it's really hard to put an Adam Grant conversation into a neat little container. That dude's brain is like a planet. We also had Drew Binsky, an amazing viral YouTuber,

who doesn't just make stupid prank videos about jumping on tables full of food. He's actually traveling to every single country in the world. We talk about some of his crazy border crossings, close calls. I mean, this is a guy who's been to Afghanistan, North Korea, Eritrea. These are always fun for me because I can share some of my own travel stories that just don't fit anywhere else and that I haven't thought about in 20 years. So make sure you've had a look and to listen to everything that we created for you here this week. By the way, for these Feedback Friday episodes, you can reach us Friday.

at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your email concise, include a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If there's something you're going through any big decision that you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on stuff like life, love, work, whether you should fight for custody of a child who isn't yours, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday atjordanharpinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. I recently got a trainer, not trying to humble brag or anything. It was a really good investment.

I'm happy to refer anyone that's looking for a trainer, by the way. But it reminded me of something that BJ Fogg said back in episode 306, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he mentioned that if you genuinely care about achieving a certain result, if you're really serious about a result or a goal, you focus on the system that you need to get there. It reminds me of six-minute networking, how everything's broken down in a chunk so you can do it every day. Getting a trainer reminded me the same thing because I walk all the time and I used to go to the gym all the time, but I need a system, a COVID-proof system to work out regularly and to push myself. And the system there, of course, is a trainer multiple times per week. Their systems don't

have to be complicated. But if you're serious about a goal, you're having trouble hitting it, always, always, focus on the system that is around that goal. Whether it's getting in shape, whether it's learning a language, you have to focus on the system. That's always been the key for me. And getting this trainer sort of reminded me of that. So I wanted to put that in very explicit terms and share it with all of you because that is a game changer if you've got stuff on the to-do list that's been there for three freaking years. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

I'm happily engaged to my boyfriend, now my fiancé, of four years. As we are planning out the guest list and who will be in our wedding party, I'm faced with the critical decision of whether to include my best friend as a bridesmaid. We've been friends for over 15 years. I was her maid of honor in her wedding five years ago, and I think she'll be deeply hurt if she is not my maid of honor in my upcoming wedding. But things have changed. Over the course of our relationship, we've always avoided the topic of politics because we have differing views and have previously had a falling out over that.

After the heated political years of 2019 and 2020, it became pretty clear that we do not see eye to the point that much of our contact has been cut. She has gotten into numerous heated debates with my fiancé on previous occasions, even going so far as to attack him personally, which made me really question our friendship. He pretty much hates her because she's been so rude, snarky, and intolerant of other people's views. Our relationship has really dwindled since that altercation, and I've had a hard time making up with her. I'm a peacemaker by nature, and I feel that if I don't include her in my wedding, it will be the end of the friendship forever, as I know that she tends to hold on to her emotions quite intensely. So,

do I include her in the wedding, or do I let the relationship dissolve? Signed, Made of Anna or Sianara. I like that you tried to make those two things rhyme. I wondered if you were going to do that. I wondered if you were going to do that. They're not all winners, Jordan, but I tried. Well, all right. First of all, congrats on getting engaged.

That's exciting. I'm sorry that you and your friend have had this falling out, especially over politics. How infuriating and such a waste. It sounds to me like it wasn't so much about what she believes as how she went about sharing those beliefs. your girl Ashley or whatever, I don't know. She just seems like an Ashley to me.

Sorry to all the super chill. Ashley's listening right now. Ashley wasn't coming over for dinner like, all right, I have some opinions. I'd love to talk them out and hear your views and come to a better understanding of the issues. She debated with you guys like she was on freaking meet the press. She yells at your fiance for disagreeing with her.

Then she launches into an ad hominem attack, you know, an attack against his person or character, when he didn't fall in line. And I'm sure if she were cool and respectful and she weren't so identified with her politics, you guys would have a much easier time understanding and accepting that she holds different views. But it sounds like the views themselves,

those are problematic to you too, which kind of makes the whole thing harder. So I get the bind that you're in. If you ask her to be your maid of honor, then you'll be inviting somebody you no longer like or trust in the middle of the most important day of your life. If you don't include her in the wedding, then she's going to be hurt,

she's going to be angry, and you maybe slash probably won't speak to her again. It's a tough situation, and either option is unpleasant for different reasons. So my question to you is this. Which option feels most fair to you? Which decision would allow you to lead with the most integrity in this situation? That's a little corporate gobbledy gook, but I'll clarify here. If you did ask her to be your maid of honor,

do you think you'd kind of sort of, on some level, hate yourself for sweeping all this political BS under the rug? do you feel like you'd be compromising on your beliefs or maybe not doing right by your fiancé? Do you think it would make your wedding day less special? At the same time, think about how you'd feel if you didn't ask her to be your maid of honor. Would you feel like you stood up for yourself and your fiance? Would you be potentially sidestepping more drama? Or would it not really make much of a difference?

And this maid of honor thing, it's just a gesture. It just ultimately doesn't change anything. those are some questions that I would be asking myself, and I would be talking them out with your fiance. It's his wedding too, and those choices impact both of you. Because look, if there's one day where you've earned the right to be a little bit selfish, it's going to be your wedding day. You're allowed to decide who you want there, who you don't, who you want standing next to you, who you don't, and yes, that might affect you and Ashley's friendship, but that might also be a good thing. Yes, I agree, Because the bigger question here is really how this person fits into her life, right?

Whether she's your maid of honor, that's just a detail. That's a one-time thing. I mean, yeah, she's going to be in the photo. So you might have to look at her for many, many decades, hopefully. But what you're really wrestling with here is whether you still want to be close with her, whether there's still a place for Ashley in your life. It sounds to me like you guys are speaking two different languages, honestly, these days. And I'm not even talking about the politics.

The politics are secondary, right? The real gap is in how you guys are relating to each other, how you treat each other's partners, whether there's still love in this friendship beyond these political opinions. So it's really, I think, about your values, your personalities, not really whether you voted for Trump or you voted for Biden or whatever. And if those deeper things, if those are totally out of whack, it's hard to believe that there's much of a foundation for your friendship going forward. I'm not saying that you have to cut her off tomorrow or anything or that you have to cut her off at all. If you wanted to repair this relationship, you could definitely try to do that. You can talk to her or you could

write her a letter and you could explain that the way she's been talking to you and your fiance, that that's making it really hard for you to still be close with her. Maybe she'll realize that she was way out of line and she'll be more sensitive, more thoughtful. You guys will find a way to stay close, even though you have such different views. And if that's possible, if you guys can repair the friendship, then I do think it's definitely worth a shot. At the very least, you might want to know that you really tried to work on the friendship before you decide to move on. And also, look, it's not going to be a huge surprise to Ashley. She knows she yelled at your fiancée. She knows you guys aren't as close as you used to be.

If you're feeling the tension with her, I can promise you that almost certainly she's feeling it too. And she may already be sorry about it. Or she might be like calling you a snowflake for being upset about it. Who knows, right? Yeah. Good point. So either she'll be inclined to try to fix the friendship also because she feels that tension

or she'll feel the tension and then she'll just understand if you guys are going separate ways in life. But if she doesn't change or you decide that you cannot be. close to somebody who holds these views for whatever reason, then you're going to have to decide whether you want to keep this friendship. And I know it's hard to think about parting ways with somebody after 15 years. That is sad. It's not fun. It's probably pretty scary, especially for a natural peacemaker like you, I bet, but sometimes it is necessary. And you're starting the next chapter of your life here. You're growing up in a big way. It makes sense that some people might not fit into that new life anymore.

And I honestly think that's not just okay. I think it's important. I would argue that that's important to really be deliberate about the people you spend time with. I agree. I think that is super important. It sucks kind of to have to cut people out, but it is part of life. Look, you don't have to have a huge explosion over it. The wedding is a little bit of a signal if you don't invite somebody that you don't want that anymore. But most friendships that don't work out, they just kind of fade away, right? People deprioritize one another and then that's it. Or it's just purely logistical. So bottom line, I feel like asking her to be your maid of honor would just be prolonged. This is my opinion, right?

Just prolonging a friendship that no longer serves you, I would really consider whether you want her in the wedding party at all, whether you still want to be friends going forward. And for what it's worth, in my book, my age, I'm 41 now. If someone doesn't add something really meaningful to my life, whether it's wisdom or laughter or support or perspective, and I can't do the same for them, they're probably not going to be in my inner circle, my so-called inner circle, right? Not because I'm too important or demanding or whatever, but because life is just too damn short to not be close with people you truly love and who truly love you. And also don't yell at your freaking fiance

over the mashed potatoes because he happens to believe that climate change is real and not caused by Chinese space lasers or whatever. That seems fair. It seems like a pretty low bar for your best friend to clear. I agree. Yeah, call me crazy. But that's just my opinion on that one. So there go, hope that helps, whatever you decide, make sure it honors what you and your fiance really want and need right now, both at the wedding and for the rest of your life for that matter. The wedding, Gabe, in this instance, the wedding is like the catalyst that's going to get this, it's the spark that makes this happen, right? This is the triggering event where they're like, okay, we're not friends with Ashley anymore.

We're deciding. Normally you don't have to do that. We're just like, Gabe, are you not, this guy's an a-hole, right? Is it just me? And then you're like, yeah, I don't like him. And then we just stop inviting him to stuff. And gradually that person's like, I haven't seen you guys in like three years. And we're like, yeah, by design.

I mean, yeah, we should catch up soon. Right. But those wedding thing, it's like, all right, we're ripping off the bandaid. Ashley, nobody wants you there. All right, I said it. Have a good life. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. It also reminds me a little bit of something that Scott Galloway talked about on the show a few weeks ago. You remember he was talking about looking at a situation or a relationship or a job and

projecting it out 10 years into the, the future. Oh, yeah. And trying to imagine, like, where is this thing going? And, you know, if it is going in that direction, what do I need to do now to either deal with it or understand it better? That's a good test to apply to this relationship, I think. Brilliant. Got to love Scott Galloway. We'll link to that in the show notes. He's one of my favorite recurring guests, for sure. The dude's a straight-up genius. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger show. We'll be right back. And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm 27 years old, the son of Indian immigrants in the United States,

and graduated with two bachelor's degrees in neuroscience and health policy. Four years ago, my dad, who is a veterinarian, approached me with the idea to start his own animal hospital. I accepted his offer to work for him for pennies compared to what I was making at the hospital that I was working at, and together we built a great business that is now worth $4.2 million. At the same time, I've been dating a girl in Canada for almost two years, but due to the pandemic, we haven't seen each other in over a year. We've tried at multiple points to see each other, but her parents who are also Indian refused her requests to see me or my requests to come visit. When I asked why, they said they don't approve of the fact that I quote unquote work from my dad,

and that I would need a stable job before they would even consider meeting me. They also added that because I wasn't a veterinarian, they didn't believe I could take over the business in the future, which I disagree with entirely. But while I really want to see her, I don't think it's best to ask her to blatantly disregard their wishes, in order to briefly be together. The thing is, I'm convinced that this girl is the one for me, and she's been extremely supportive of my decision to help my parents. After speaking to my own parents about all this, they said it would be best if I find a career my own, even though I would be leaving our business earlier than planned. They've been extremely supportive of our relationship

and are really excited at the prospect of having a daughter-in-law. My mom even allowed her to help design the house that we built. I've always struggled with self-confidence and felt as if I was never good enough or I was failing to deliver on my potential. While I've been working on that with a therapist, whenever I find myself worth being questioned by somebody else, I immediately resist and reject their opinion. I'm now building up a lot of resentment towards the people I hope will be my future in-laws. While I empathize with them to some degree, I just cannot be okay with the fact that they're preventing us from moving forward in our relationship, and I can only picture myself having a negative relationship with them from here on out. So how can I stop seeing her parents as barriers to my

relationship with my girlfriend signed time to withdraw or gnaw at my in-laws you're on fire today man this letter infuriates me in various different ways same nothing to do with the writer i feel bad for the guy he sounds like a really interesting and smart and multi-talented guy that doesn't deserve this bullshit in short totally but let me start off by saying congratulations on building this amazing business with your dad super impressive man you made some sacrifices clear they really paid off. I mean, four plus million dollar business, nothing to sneeze at. From where I'm sitting, you seem like a smart, driven, thoughtful dude. You're taking care of yourself. You're taking care of your parents. You're finding ways to earn a great living and create something of value.

I'm pretty sure that you're the dream son-in-law for most humans. So it's super frustrating to hear that your ladies' parents are objecting to your relationship, especially for total bullshit reasons, which I'll get into in a second. I'm sure in their minds they just want what's best for their daughter in part. And I get that, but it sounds to me like they're not taking the time to get to know you as a person. They're holding you to these very rigid conventional standards of what a good son-in-law looks like. And now you and the love of your life are in this weird Romeo and Juliet situation being kept apart by borders and COVID and parents. It's pretty dramatic, man. I'm sorry you're up against all that. I really am. It sucks. You don't deserve it. Neither is she.

So to answer your question, how can you stop seeing her parents as barriers to your relationship? The answer is you can't because they are actually barriers to your relationship. The question is, how are you going to overcome them? And Gabriel, it made me kind of, I was annoyed to hear that he's going to therapy because he's like, I'm sad that when people say that I'm not good enough for doing all of this really amazing stuff that I am mad at them. It's like, no, you should not be upset at yourself or being mad at people that were like, we don't like all of the amazing things you've done because we want to fucking brag to our friends

that our son-in-law is a doctor and not a veterinarian, which is basically what's going on here. There's fair and healthy anger that comes from people dismissing you for totally irrational reasons. Yeah, I'm with you. Exactly. Exactly. It's like, you might as well have written, how do I get rid of my irrational anger at my future in-laws for saying that they didn't like Jews? You know, you're like, what? No.

That's not how you, you're right to be annoyed by that. That's a terrible thing. Look, there are a few things that are making it hard for you. One thing is that you and your girlfriend, you both come from a pretty traditional family-oriented culture. You're reluctant to stand up to her parents. And I'm guessing your girlfriend isn't super eager to stand up to them either, which honestly, that's part of the issue, because I don't think this problem is entirely

yours to fix. That's her life, too. You're talking about all this as if it's only on you. and you have to prove to them that you're good enough, but you are good enough. And your girlfriend, she could be helping her parents see that. She'd probably have better luck making them see that than you will. I realize how stubborn a lot of parents are that are traditional Asian, Indian,

South Asian, whatever you want to call it. I realize that there are cultural stuff here. But for whatever reason, she's kind of playing along. Sounds like she's almost waiting for things to magically change. She doesn't want to rock the boat. And you don't want to push her to speak up because to use your words, you don't think it's best to ask her to blatantly disregard their wishes. Okay, fine, she's not going to elope with you necessarily, but she should be like, you know, the veterinary business is worth

a lot of money. It's more than he would be making as a neuroscientist, if that's what they're worried about. But I don't think they're worried about your ability to provide. I think it's social status and ego stuff, and I'll get to that in a second as well. But I guess my question is, why not? Why don't you think it is best to ask her to disregard their wishes? Or just push back a little. I mean, you guys are both adults. You're 27 years old. You're truly in love. You're perfect for each other. Yada. I know, again, Indian parents can be pretty intense, but at some point you guys have to decide whether you're going to live the life they want you to live or you're going to live your own lives. Easier said than done for a white guy like me sitting here in California. I get that. My parents aren't nagging me about anything. but still, your girlfriend could be a little more proactive with her parents.

She can try to help them see how they are standing in the way of her happiness. And I know that's a scary prospect. I'm not trying to gloss over the fact that parents and their wishes are a very big deal in certain cultures especially, even if they're misguided, here, in my opinion. But if you guys aren't willing to have this conflict with them, if you can't even stand up for yourself enough to ask her to advocate for your relationship, I'm just not sure this situation is ever going to change. I mean, when do they stop bossing you guys around?

Yeah, even if they did get together, happily married, what's going to happen after that? Right. Parents could be all up in their marriage. I agree completely. And it does make me wonder if maybe some of that self-confidence stuff you were talking about in your letter, the struggles you have with self-worth, as you put it, if maybe that's playing a role here. I mean, I don't mean to put you on my pretend internet therapist couch here, but it is worth asking. Do you think you're hesitating to ask your girlfriend to stand up to her parents?

because deep down you don't think your relationship is worth fighting for, right? I mean, do you think on some level, even though you kind of hate these people right now, which I understand, you actually maybe kind of sort of on some weird level agree with them that you haven't lived up to your potential? Is that possible? I had the same thought. Like maybe it's hard for him to feel secure enough in his accomplishments and his sense of self to be like, hey, look, I'm in love with your daughter, she's in love with me,

I'm going to be a great husband to her. I realize it's an arranged marriage almost. of situation, but you guys need to get off your high horse, open your mind a little. I'm an entrepreneur. So what if I'm not what you want me to be? Obviously, you should not say that in that way to any Indian parents ever, but you get my meaning here. Exactly right. Anyway, we're asking you these questions because you brought this up. And by the way, I really admire your self-awareness about all of that. I think it's awesome. Even though Jordan was saying that, you know, you have a right to be angry and you don't need to work out your righteous, totally justified anger with the therapist.

There's nothing wrong with you for being angry. But I think it's great that you're talking to somebody in general. But in the context of why you guys can't seem to overcome your in-laws on this, it is totally possible that these two things are connected and not to go all, you know, Brunei Brown on you here, but based on everything you've shared with us, I got to say, you are living up to your potential, my man. You do have a ton of value. Like Jordan said, you sound like a great dude. It's just very obvious to us. So I wouldn't let your ideas about yourself stop you and your girlfriend from advocating for your relationship when you guys really need to be doing that. Okay. So now that we've had a little podcast intervention for you,

Garrett Jordan, how does he actually do that? Well, I think you have a couple of options. Option one is you and your girlfriend come up with a plan to talk to her parents about your relationship in a very real way. I would make this first step regardless, because it's the easiest option and it's the most appropriate. I would encourage her to sit down with her parents, tell them how hard it's been dating someone they don't approve of, tell them why she likes you, why she chose you, all the great

things that she sees in you, and ask them to, explain their concerns. I would think through all of their objections in advance, so she has thoughtful responses ready to go. You can help her do that if it doesn't feel too self-serving, but the important thing is that she's speaking from the heart. And then I would encourage her to ask her parents for one simple thing, which is to agree to meet you and get to know you. I think that's the key, to start with a really small request. If your girlfriend asks them to approve of your whole relationship and let her spend three months in the States, they'll just be like, hell no, we don't know this guy, we don't like him, absolutely not. But it'll be a lot harder for them

to refuse to have lunch with you one time. If they do, then they'll only be making themselves look even more unreasonable, which will make it easier for your girlfriend to point out how unfair they're actually being. Then hopefully, you guys can all hang out, you can show them what kind of person you are, that's a whole other challenge, but I actually think that'll be the easier part for you, since you really do have the goods. You and your girlfriend just need to get them to give you a chance. And I realize a lot of their criteria is not just based on personality, but it's, again, it's not like you're not able to provide for her.

You run a $4 million business. That's a very nice lifestyle. But if they absolutely refuse to meet you, option two is you reach out to her parents directly. This could be a phone call. It could be a Zoom or an email. My vote would probably be for an email, so you can really lay out your argument very clearly.

In this letter, I would tell them a little more about who you are as a person and a professional, address all of their concerns one by one, express to them how much you care about their daughter, and tell them you understand that they only want what's best for her, you empathize with their concerns, but that you would love a chance for them to get to know you and for you to get to know them.

Again, if you do a good job in this letter, it'll be so much harder for them to say no. thing is though Jordan they might still say no right so if they do then you and your girlfriend need to decide whether you're going to let her parents stand in your way forever because that's really the choice in front of you right now whether you guys are going to fight for your relationship or you're going to let other people stop you from being happy I mean that's kind of dramatic but that's exactly where you are I know that sounds like a nicholas sparks novel a little bit super cheesy I know but that's actually what we're talking about you're basically living the Indian version of the

notebook or something if this is me and I'm 150% sure that this is my person and her parents are being truly, truly prejudicial, truly unreasonable, as opposed to, you know, justifiably cautious about something that's actually a problem in this guy's life, then I'm choosing my person. I'm sorry. And my in-laws will just have to come around at some point, or we're going to have to just build a life that doesn't always involve them at every turn. Look, same here, but I also know that it's so much harder to do in an Asian or South Asian family. You know, I'm married into an Asian family, maybe not as conservative as this guy's in-laws, obviously, I was lucky that we got along. Great. I know Jen's parents, their opinion really

mattered. And I know they were trying to hook her up with like doctors and podiatrists and stuff like that, right? So if they didn't like me, it would have been hard for Jen to be like, sorry, Mom and Dad, F you, I'm marrying the podcaster with the hipster haircut you don't approve of. And if the show fails, we're going to live off as Bitcoin. Bye. Right. That would not have gone over well. Although I would have loved if that went down. That's such a great story. Totally. I hear you. I'm sure this is a much harder proposition for his girlfriend than it is for him. But that doesn't change the fact that she needs to decide whose opinions are more important, right? Her or her parents. My hope is that they'll come around once they see that you guys are serious. But if she won't make that leap, then you're going to have to decide if you want to keep waiting for her. I hope this works out. I want you guys to work up. But she needs to be as secure as you are in this relationship if this is really going to work. Yeah, I agree. Not an easy situation, but it really does come down to whose life. they really want to live. And I'm sorry this is so hard, but I actually think that if you fight for

your relationship, it might make you guys even stronger. And one day when you've been married for 40 years and you're telling your grandkids how you met, I bet this will all seem very romantic, might get a little rocky in the meantime. And I know it'll be hard, but if you really feel like you belong together, it'll be worth it. Gabe, you know what annoys me the most about this? And I'm sort of touched on this earlier. I mean, I get the culture thing here, but their argument isn't even well-founded, right? A son-in-law who works in a hospital, solid. I mean, I get that. But right now, he has a multi-million dollar business, which is providing a very different and much more flexible, obviously more lucrative lifestyle than just about any hospital ever would provide for you.

You'd have to run the hospital to have the shot at an income stream like this guy has running this veterinary business. So what I suspect here, candidly, is that they want to say, oh, our son-in-law, is a doctor and he works in a hospital, he's a neuroscientist, they're worried that our son-in-law is an entrepreneur who owns a veterinary business doesn't sound as nice and it's not as prestigious, especially in a traditional Asian culture where you basically have to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer or somehow your parents have failed and they have to wallow in shame till they die. Yeah, that bothers me too. And you know what else bothers me on top of it is that his parents are now pushing him out of the business and trying to encourage him to have his own career

because I'm guessing they want him to get married really badly and they're trying to remove this obstacle so her parents can't object anymore. It's like both of their parents are accidentally colluding in getting this guy out of an amazing business and making him conform to standards that don't hold water and actually don't apply to the very cool things that he's done in his life. It's just very sad. I hope he finds a way to live his own life because he has a great one. Yeah, we're rooting for you guys. We really are. Maybe you can do like a head fake, right? Where he like jumps out, gets a job at a hospital. They get married and he's like, psych, veterinary business for life. then they have grandkids right they have kids right away so the parents are like ah screw it we're happy now

yeah yeah we're fine now we can tell everybody it's all good he works at a hospital yeah yeah oh first of all he was a neuroscientist at a hospital then he started his own business yeah then they get to brag he left to start the veterinary business that secretly he owned the whole time yeah just a total head fake like he has like a fake job at a hospital now or a real one for like six months I don't know man I feel like you shouldn't have to rearrange your life for people like that but uh you know I don't know try the head fake move. Let me know how it goes. All right. What's next? Hey guys. About two years ago, I was working at a company as a contract employee. My boss came looking for me, found me in the hallway, and asked if I'd been at lunch since I wasn't at my desk. I replied, nope, I was in the can.

Okay. She was stunned. In a review, she praised my work, but said I was a bit too, quote-unquote, familiar with people. I wasn't sure if this was because of my bathroom lingo or because I would talk to a VP the same way I would talk to the security guy. I mean, treat everyone as a friend, right? When the contract ended, she was the only one at this place who rejected my LinkedIn connection. She also gave me a tepid email response when I applied for a full-time job at her company in a different department. I'm currently working from home for a different company and was reminded of this during a conference call where I told somebody that I had to quote unquote answer a call of nature. I hadn't known the other person for very long and we've never met in person, but she has a good

sense of humor and we do joke around with each other. Is there a better way to tell someone when you really have to go? This might be about more than biology as I've often been accused of being too informal many years ago in graduate school. I tried joking around with the governor of my state at an informal event and it went over like a lead balloon. A few weeks later, the governor glared at me in such a way that a friend actually asked me what I had done to piss the guy off. So do I need to change my ways? Signed a guy who's got to go. man Gabe this guy sounds like a real pisser huh but uh seriously i think this guy needs to plug a few leaks in the ship all right i'm done um you hear my thoughts just a stream of consciousness

Jesus Christ that's the last one so so look this letter's kind of funny and on some level i actually admire you for treating everyone the same not being a totally buttoned up watered down corporate drone but you're right this is about more than biology it's not necessarily like you chose the wrong phrase about using the restroom. It's about how you present to other people, how people like to be spoken to, the first impression you're making especially at work. The fact that you have a history of jokes not going over too well, I would pay some attention to that. That tells me that it wasn't just Janice in accounting who didn't get your humor. There's something about the way that you're coming

across to most people that just is not working. Or, and this is also important, you're not reading people well enough to know if they'd respond to your humor in the right way. Right. So I have some experience with this. When I was working at a law firm like maybe 15 plus years ago now, I noticed that one of the partners, he had like, Gabriel, you know when you have like your initials monogrammed on your sleeve? Yeah. Yeah. His initials were SOB. And I said, oh, your initials are SOB or something like that. And he's like, yep. And I caught myself saying it. It wasn't even me being like, this is a good It just like came out and I dropped it right there. And during my performance review at the end of the summer, they were like, or at the end of the

quarter, whatever it was, I can't remember now. They were like, yeah, don't try to be funny about, I don't know, people's name or anything. And I was like, what could they possibly be talking about? And then I was like, oh, yeah, that awkward ass moment at a sports bar where I realized this guy's initials were SOB, which, you know, not a guy with a great sense of humor in the first place. So. Yeah, seriously. But, uh, some work.

cultures are just way too formal also. I, different law firm got in trouble for, I was in the elevator. This is an English law firm. And I get in the elevator. There's this older partner. And he goes, do you have any plans for the weekend? And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go check out. I don't know, the natural history museum or whatever I had planned on doing. And I said, what about you? And he goes, oh, well, I'm going to go to my lakehouse and go fishing. On Monday, I get called into another partner's office, like my supervising partner. And he goes, were you speaking informally with solicitor, you know, barrister, whatever, like Conrad in the elevator? And I was like, I don't think so. And then he's like, tell me what the conversation was, boy. And I was like, well, he asked me if I was doing

anything for the weekend. And then I said, I don't know. I'm doing this and that. And I asked him what he was doing. And they were like, what? That man's worked very hard to get where he's been in life. And I'm like, so I can't reciprocate the question. It was so ridiculous. And I tell British people this all the time and they either laugh or they go, oh yeah, that's totally, that totally sounds like my law firm. And I speak with English lawyers and they're especially stuffy. And they tell me like, oh, yeah, I can see that going over poorly. Imagine that in America, right? Hey, what are you doing this weekend? Oh, I'm doing this. And then you just don't ask what they're doing. People would be like, oh, this self-absorred prick doesn't even care to ask about anybody else. So some cultures are more formal.

Sometimes it's us. It's usually us. Right. So to answer your question, yes, you need to change. your ways, or maybe a better way to put it, you need to calibrate your ways. You've been the jockey, informal guy as a matter of policy. Just going around like, this is me, I'm the guy who talks about dropping a deuce by the photocopier. It's just who I am. Take it or leave it. If that's the first impression people have of you, like that governor, or if they haven't had enough time to get to know you as a person, the quality of your work, your other great qualities, like your boss at that contract gig, then they'll probably assume that this is who you are deep down. And then that negative experience will color every interaction that they have with you after that, even if they're

positive. And that'll make it harder and harder to climb out of the hole that you have dug for yourself. I think it's also worth calling out that bathroom humor in general. It's not everyone's cup of tea. Some people find it objectively hilarious. Some people find it totally unfunny. Some people giggle and look away or roll their eyes or whatever. But in an office setting, I think it's just best to stay away from it. Not just because it's a little unprofessional, depending on the audience, but because when you talk like that, even if you're among your buddies, you're signaling to the other person that you don't really understand the decorum or respect, maybe that the environment deserves. And I'm pretty sure that's what your boss at that job felt. I doubt she was offended that you needed to use the

restroom. But she was probably put off by the fact that you weren't treating her like your superior. And right or wrong, fair or unfair, that stuff is culture dependent. That's the politics of office life. And if you aren't attuned to those basic rules, then people will start to want. wonder what other basic rules you don't understand. They'll start thinking, is this guy going to be a liability with my other employees? Can I trust him to have lunch with a client? Does he represent our brand? All because you overshared a little too much. And this is something that that partner brought up and he said, you know, stuff like this, it's not a big deal now. But as you mature in the firm and you meet clients, what if you say something like that in front of a client? And I thought to myself,

then the client might like me, you prick. But that wasn't necessarily the case. Right. I mean, what if it's another stuffy-ass person like a British attorney? Not that Brits are stuffy, but British attorneys. You know who you are. So going forward, I would dial back a bit on the humor, at least at first. Let people get to know you a little better. Show them that you're a good employee, a hard worker, a solid person. Then, once you have developed stronger relationships and locked down the job you need,

then you can start loosening the tie a little bit and being a little bit more informal. It's always better to err on the side of too formal than too informal. I'll tell you that. Although I'd still recommend being a little more diplomatic about the bathroom stuff is just such an easy landmine to avoid. And as far as meeting someone new, especially if that person runs the freaking state that you live in, yeah, I'd be on your best behavior. I wouldn't tell Gavin Newsom I had to piss like a racehorse the first time I met him, right? I'd ask about his family and talk about energy policy or whatever, and then maybe, maybe I'd start to joke around once we had a little relationship going, although I have no idea what Gavin Newsom finds funny, my guess is he's pretty stressed out these days.

And you better believe I'd have a good read on him before I told him a dirty joke by the buffet at a black tie fundraiser. Well said. This guy definitely needs to lock it up a little bit. The only thing I would not lose here is your ability to talk to anybody like they're a friend. Because most people, they can't go up to somebody important at an event and just shoot the shit, have an informal chat, not be intimidated. That's a great quality to have. It's very Bill Clinton of you. I got to say. But if you're going to do that, just make sure you're balancing it with enough sensitivity, enough self-awareness so, you know, you don't end up working against yourself. Totally. He needs to be able to shoot the shit, but not talk about actual shit. Yeah, thanks. Look, I think we all know why corporate life didn't work out from me here in the end

by this answer here. I really thrive in an environment where I can work without pants for the majority of the day. As for you, good luck, man. This is the Jordan Harbinger show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and or services? You can always visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right. Last but not least. Howdy, Jens. My girlfriend is a recent master's grad in creative writing in English and ended up pursuing a career in publishing.

Despite her exceptional skill, though, she has had very little luck getting a job. She has now decided that she is just, quote, unquote, no good, and has recently talked about giving up her dream of working with books. The problem is not her abilities. Her editing skills are borderline savant-like, to the point that sometimes it sounds like she's talking about music rather than writing. Her graduate professors, they raved about her writing and even strongly suggested submitting her work to major publishers when she finishes.

She writes young adult novels, great ones, even has several mostly finished works. in the genre. She was also just asked to go full time as a clerk at the bookstore where she was already working four days a week. This was something that her coworkers constantly pushed for her to request. Her manager was simply waiting for her to ask. As you can probably tell, she is a sweet woman who is very shy and tries to stay in the box as much as possible for fear that she might attract too much attention. Sadly, most of her problems seem to stem from her parents. She has had a terrible relationship with her father, who's a loud and proud entrepreneur, whose conservative values drove him to success. Their relationship is very rocky, and I think that exhibiting any of her father's

traits would drive her insane. In addition to all that, she won't reach out to friends or family for support, and she's terrified to ask for help. She refuses to release anything that is unfinished and is embarrassed of anybody reading her work, but she also has trouble finishing any of her project. where once she was fit and healthy, she now spends time moping about what her life used to be. Her anxiety is stronger than the Hulk, and she has panic attacks that she constantly plays off as health defects, like not drinking enough water, stuff like that. And she's completely opposed to therapy because her father forced her and her brother there after her parents' nasty divorce. So my question is simple.

What should I do? Signed, Steinied by my girlfriend's Mighty Psyche. Man, that is a sad story. I was actually really moved by this letter. You obviously love your girlfriend, and you seem really to understand her, and you want her to succeed. She's lucky to have you looking out for her. Plus, she sounds super talented. This isn't somebody who just read The Hunger Games once and was like, I can do that.

I can do something like this. No big deal. She can write. She's well-trained. She's talented. She just can't seem to get out of her own way, which, by the way, very common trait with smart people, even more common with good writers. I don't think I've ever met a writer who didn't wrestle with at least some of this stuff.

Writers are weird, right, Gabe? Yeah, we're out of our minds. What do you want me to say? I don't know how to tell you. Well, there you go. From the horse's mouth. Although, to be fair, if I had to sit down and stare at a blank page every single day, I'd probably be out of my freaking tree, too.

So look, your girlfriend's situation, it's very complex. Between the childhood stuff, the parental conflict, the self-esteem issues, the depression, the anxiety, there's no way you or I could solve everything. in one email. So my advice to you is this. Support your girlfriend as much as you can, help her see the parts of herself that she struggles to see, let her know that you are in her corner and committed to helping her in any way that you can. And I think your girlfriend is in a pretty dark place right now. You're probably helping her more than you know. My sense is that she's been outrunning her issues for a long time. Finding clever ways to repress them, paper over them with all of her accomplishments,

which is a very common strategy for high performers, by the way. But now all of the stuff she's been out running is going to catch up with her. It is catching up with her, which it always does. And she's having a harder and harder time keeping it at bay. All of these unresolved problems, they're mounting up, they're really paralyzing her, and now they're kind of starting to bury her. So you being there for her, caring about her this much, it's huge, even if it just feels like you're a helpless spectator or something like that for now.

At the same time, though, you have to understand that you cannot make your girlfriend do anything that she doesn't want to do, and you cannot live her life for her. And I know that we say that a lot on the show. I know it's a little trite. It's trite because it's true. We all want to save the people we love, but we can't, and we shouldn't. So until your girlfriend learns how to ask for help, until she really investigates all of these beliefs about herself, until she resolves some of these conflicts with her family, there's only so much that you can do. I think it's amazing that you believe in her so much.

She really needs that. I absolutely think you should continue supporting her, but there is a difference between supporting her and trying to fix all of her problems. That is her work, not yours. I totally agree, and that's got to be one of the hardest things for a guy like this. He's so kind, he's so attuned to her needs, he gets her, he wants to help his partner change, but then he also ends up feeling totally responsible for her.

So I agree. That said, one thing I would definitely encourage her to do here is give therapy another try. I know she has a ton of resistance around that. I actually think that resistance is very meaningful. I would try to talk to her about what happened when she went to therapy with her family as a kid, why she might be afraid to open herself up to that process all over again. As much as you can, try to help her see that she really does need the help of a professional right now. what you've shared with us in this letter, it's more than any one person can take on, let alone a layperson, let alone her partner. It really does require an expert to work through all of that stuff. I would help her understand that her experience in therapy as an adult, that won't be the same as her experience in therapy as a child. In fact, she could walk into her first appointment and say something like, look, I don't want to be here.

I had a really bad experience in therapy when I was a kid, but I'm here because I need to help, even though it makes me really uncomfortable. That would be a great place to begin therapy. A good therapist, they would know how to dig into that. They would know how to make therapy a safe place, a productive place for her. But look, if she keeps shooting down the therapy thing, you might want to ask her point blank if she really wants to live with all of these challenges for the rest of her life because that's really her choice here. Either she can flail in her career, she can cycle between anxiety and depression, struggle with her self-confidence, struggle with her self-esteem, or she can talk to somebody who can help her hopefully get better. So does she want to get better? That's the question. Does she want to to be tied to this stuff forever, or does she want to take a chance and try to work through it? I know that's kind of an intense question to ask your girlfriend, but I think it's an important question, and it could actually be the wake-up call she needs to open up her mind a little bit, give it another shot. Agree completely. If she's going to get better, she's the one who has to do the work, not him, and she needs to be doing it with a professional. It's a tough pill to swallow, I get it.

When you're partnered the way these two people are partnered, it's natural to feel like you guys are battling all of this together, almost like you're one person. against all of her problems. But that's kind of part of the issue, right? I feel like there's a healthy separation that has to happen here where you go, okay, this is my role in her life, that's her stuff, we each need to handle our piece of it and not take on anymore. I feel for your girlfriend, I really do. She's a remarkably talented person who has some old trauma to work through, some big questions that she has to explore. I hope she gets a chance to do that, but it's up to her. Your role in all this is to invite her to talk, listen to her, validate her feelings, help her see how she can help herself, and encourage her to deal with this in a proper way, a healthy way.

And if she absolutely refuses to do this work on herself, then you'll have to learn how to be in this relationship without getting caught up in that struggle. Or you'll have to decide if this is somebody you want to be with for the long term. But that's another conversation, and it's a conversation you only need to have after really giving this a shot with her. And I hope that helps. Sending you good thoughts, that's got to be a tough situation. So good luck, man. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Go back and check out the guests from this week. Adam Grant and Drew Binsky, both worth a listen, both a lot of fun. Adam Grant, that dude is just something else. And Drew Binski gave us a chance to talk about some of these wild travel stories that I haven't thought about in a couple decades, along with his own adventures slash misadventures. If you want to know how I book the folks on the show, I do pretty much everything through my net.

I manage my relationships using systems, using tiny habits. It doesn't feel like a lot of work. I'm teaching you those systems and tiny habits in our six-minute networking course. The course is free. You don't have to enter any payment info or any of that crap. It's over on the think-ific platform at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Once you need relationships, you're too late to start building them. The drills take a few minutes a day. Ignore it at your own peril. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. A link to the show notes for the episode is always at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of this feedback Friday on our YouTube at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter,

Instagram, or hit me on LinkedIn, and you can find Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, Josh Ballard, and a of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Keep sending in those questions to Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Our advice, our opinions, and those of our guests are always their own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today.

In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. Behavioral economist Dan Ariely shares the hidden logic that shapes our motivations and helps us understand what makes us tick. Here's a preview. I think that we used to think that the big mysteries of life is what's in the stars and maybe microbiology and of course these are big mysteries. But the human mystery is wonderful. And even though it's just in front of us, there's so much we don't know. We operate as if we know how the world works, but because our model is wrong,

we inflict more pain and increase suffering. I think it's true for lots of things. What is our understanding? Think about how we waste our time, think about how we waste our money, how we waste our health. My mission is to do kind of good social engineering. And I think there's just a ton of progress to make.

And sadly, we're not doing it in the right way. I think we're actually going back. And the process of social science in which we try different things and try to measure objectively what's going on and attributing and trying to improve things over time, I think it's a wonderful process. So when people read or listen

or think about those topics, I think the real benefit is to say, what can I take for my life? What are the things about my life that I'm not observing? Can I be a bit better in observing my own life? Can I try to implement something? And then hopefully also can I try to experiment with something? Is there something I would like to try out in a few different ways and see what leads to a better outcome?

For more with Dan Ariely on one of the best productivity tools around, what will help you utilize the most productive hours of the day, and why even the best of us lie and cheat sometimes, check out episode 417 on the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger Show, you'll probably like something, you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a

practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured. and Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the

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