The Jordan Harbinger Show - 485: Leah Remini | Surviving Hollywood and Scientology

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

Leah Remini (@leahremini) is an actor, producer, co-host of podcast Scientology: Fair Game, and co-author of Troublemaker: Surviving Hollywood and Scientology. What We Discuss with Leah Remini: What Scientology is, how it came about, and why it's so dangerous. The lengths the Scientology organization has gone through to protect itself from the government and its disillusioned apostates. How Leah and her Fair Game co-host Mike Rinder have survived the stalking, harassment, and threats of post-Scientology life. What die-hard Scientologists really believe. How Scientology recruits and retains its A-list celebrity lineup. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/485 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up on the Jordan Harbinger show. If you had a best friend that you knew had a wife that was with him all the time or her, wouldn't you say, bro, I haven't seen your wife? Like, I need to see her. I'm starting to worry that she's in a fucking freezer somewhere. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game.

Astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional Russian spy, drug trafficker or economic hitman. Every episode of this show turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it,

we now have episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes right there on the website, organized by popular topics. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or tell somebody else to visit

Jordan Harbinger.com slash start. It's a great place to get started or to help somebody else get started. And of course, I love it when you share the show that's very helpful for our growth. Word of mouth is one of the biggest channels of this show's growth. So I always appreciate that. Today's guest, Leah Remini, you might recognize her from the crazy popular sitcom King of Queens, among other places. She was actually raised in a cult called the Church of Scientology, which you may have heard of.

I've been speaking out against cults for a while now, as many of you know, especially dangerous, cults. And I think Scientology probably qualifies here. And yes, lawyers for Scientology are warming up their letter writing fingers right now. I can just feel it. Founded by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology and a science fiction writer who wrote a book called Dionetics, which was supposed to be this psychological self-help manual. The founder, Ron Hubbard, said, the best way to make real money is to start a religion because people will do anything for religion and the government can't take away your money and your power. So that's a pretty strong statement of someone's intent there, I think. Good people get into this because they want to help people, they want to help others, which is

extra tragic. I mean, the mission of Scientology, the mission they state is, you know, help humanity, and it's essentially self-help in the beginning, and then it just, you know, turns into what it really is. Scientology uses celebrities like Leah Remini, Tom Cruise, John Travolta, to make the organization and more attractive. I've heard murmurs that it keeps them there with blackmail, but, you know, we'll talk about that on the show. Also, there's a lot of muscle the church can use to attack enemies and protect these people. Sounds a little bit like the mafia, which we've also covered here on the show. The reason I think this cult is so dangerous is partially because it's not just fringe weirdos that end up in Scientology. It's regular good people. You never think you can get

sucked in and abused until it happens to you. So today we'll discuss some of the craziness that is Scientology, especially at the higher levels of the church, and we'll explore some of the harassment and chaos that comes your way when you try to leave the church or speak out against it, especially as a form of remembrance. There's some spooky stuff in here, and they have a policy called Fair Game, where essentially if you're an enemy of the church, then anything goes. It's just absolutely bananas. And if you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it's because of my network. I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordan harbinger.com slash course. And by the way, most of the

guests on the show, they subscribe to the course and the newsletter. Come join us. You'll be in smart company. Now, here's Leah Remini. I want to talk about Scientology because I've been speaking out against this. I never was a Scientologist, but I've been telling people, hey, this is not just a regular religion. And I, since college, when I was in college, like 20 years ago, and people used to say, hey, you know, look, you've got to be open-minded. And I just thought, am I the crazy person here? This is not a real religion. It's a cult and it's dangerous. And now people are starting to realize, like, hey, remember that thing you were talking about? Yeah, that's, you're right. That's not, I went to that. And now I'm, like, escaping. Right. And I think that was, I think

what we accomplished in the aftermath was, you know, our fear was that people would see it as this kind of, you know, Tom Cruise jumping on a couch, innocuous, little crazy Hollywood cult. And it's obviously not as innocuous as that. It's a $3 billion business for profit parading itself around as a cult. And it destroys lies. The biggest difference, I think Mike Rinder pointed out was there is no religious organization on the planet that, A, is responsible for the largest infiltration of government agencies in American history. You could look that up as Scientology. Can you speak to that a little?

Like Mike Rinder, first of all, who is he? Because I know who he is, but my audience is probably like who. Sure. And also the infiltration thing, like needle off the record moment right there. Yes. And I don't know why I keep telling people, look it up. I don't want anybody believe anything that I'm saying. And I actually get offended when people say, you know, I believe you, Leah.

I'm like, you don't need to believe shit. Like, it's all out there. This is all proven and vetted information. This is not information that I'm coming up with. But I believe it was in 1977, Albert in the beginning of Scientology, when the government started to see Scientology as the dangerous cult that it is,

you know, started to launch investigations against Scientology. So Elron Hubbard smartly started to write policies and directives naming, and this is what cults do, they name the enemy, right? So that is the news, the media, the AMA, psychiatrists, psychology, medical doctors. The us versus them concept is very important whilst setting up a cults. Because it makes people feel special that they're fighting something that's bigger than them, right? And I think we can all relate to that feeling of not feeling special, no matter how successful

your podcast is, Jordan, how successful any of the shows that I do, you're still left with the trauma of your childhood of feeling insignificant or not special or, you know, there's always something else to compare it to, right? But I'm not as big as this or I don't have these things or, you know, so that is a major element of how to set up the enemy, right? And so Elron Hubbard set up what's called the Guardian's Office. And the Guardian's Office job was to silence those speaking out or doing any investigations against Scientology. And look this up, please look this up so you know for yourselves. You could see, you know, Scientology in the Guardian's Office, Scientology, dirty tricks. You can Google any of those variations and come up with this story. And 12 Scientologists

eventually went to prison for infiltrating government agencies. They were breaking into government agencies, planting listening devices, stealing documentation, evidence against the Church of Scientology for these dirty tricks called Fair Game. And Mary Sue Hubbard was one of the 12 people who were found guilty of this, and she went to prison, Elvron Hubbard's wife. Oh, my gosh. So this is basically like, oh, I'm going to get a job with the FBI. or something and then just start taking all the files I can find on Scientology,

copying them and sending them back to the church. Like a spy, literally. It's just spying. Spying, renting an office above the Better Business Bureau and breaking into the offices of the Better Business Bureau and stealing the documents that they had on Scientology, all the complaints of Scientology. Getting jobs close to people who were working for these agencies and finding out the dirt on those people and destroying evidence that they had on Scientology and reporting back

to Scientology of what evidence they did have, or just simply giving them the documentation. See, now we would call those people domestic terrorists or, like, potential domestic terrorists. If you're spying on the FBI. And the IRS. In the IRS, right? And then trying to blackmail individuals that work there, that is not just like, we're going to take this isolated incident and put this person in prison. That's like, let's put the entire organization under surveillance because they're up to no good,

obviously. Correct. So you would think that that would end the Guardian's office, right? Right. And the practice of fair game, because the practice, of Fair game is covered by these policies, directives in Scientology. So what they did was they just created a new Guardian's office called OSA. And that's the Office of Special Affair. And that is still operating today, the Office of Special Affairs. Mike Rinder, who was my co-producer on Scientology,

Leah Remedy in the aftermath on A&E, and now was picked up by Netflix. So if you haven't seen it, I hope you guys can watch it. So now they are OSA. And Mike was the head of OSA. and OSHA's job, and these are employees of Scientology. There's a special department in Scientology, in the Scientology organization, that sole job, their sole job, is to go after those speaking out against Scientology. That's all they do day in, day out.

Now, there's a difference, I don't know if you know this Jordan, but I'm just for your listeners. Please feel free to cut me off if you're like, yeah, I know this. But there's a difference between Seorg members and Scientologists. Okay. Right? So a Seorg member is somebody like Mike Rinder, who they are raised in Scientology and they

want to serve Scientology. So they join this kind of paramilitary section of Scientology, which is called the Sea Organization. They wear military uniforms. They have set up the Sea Organization to run like it's a military. I mean, with literally, you know, lanyards and, you know, military uniforms. and they run Scientology. So they administer Scientology to the parishioners of Scientology.

They've run the organizations of Scientology and their front groups. They sign billion-year contracts. I'm not exaggerating. It's Scientologists believe that you come back. And that is the actual, if you look up the sea organization. Sea is in like ocean, right? Like SEA, yeah.

Yes. You'll look and you'll see that the motto says, we come back. Their insignia says we come back. It means that. And so they've signed billion year contracts. They give up their lives. They give up their bank accounts. They give up their families. And they go live communally in Scientology birthing. And they eat, sleep and work at Scientology day in, day out, and they make $50 a week. They work from 8 in the morning till midnight. They don't get time off to visit family. These are things once you join the Seorg. And even as a Scientologist, you know, family members are frivolous.

You know, it's about the mission of clearing the planet. And that is the intention of Scientology. And we've been asked many times, what does clearing the planet mean? Yeah, that was my obvious follow-up. Like, clearing the planet of what? Right. Well, it means that Scientology's goal is to make 80% of the planet Scientologists. Oh, that's it?

Just 80%. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So they believe that the number is about 20% of the world's population are just absolutely insane. So there's no worth getting that. But if you have the majority of the people being Scientologists, then the world would be a saner place. Without Scientology, there's no hope for man. And that is the extremist

attitude of every Scientologist on the planet. That is what they truly believe, that you are lost, I am lost, there is no hope for man, but for Scientology. And so if you're a Seorg member, that's what you're doing all day, all night. Now, if you work for OSA and you're a Corg member, you can imagine the amount of attention people like me get from OSA. And that's all they do is they fair game all of us all day, all night. You can go on Twitter. You can see there's a, you know, they have front groups. One of those called the Stand League. And this group is pretending to be the protectors of the First Amendment. And yet 99. 99.9.9. percent of their tweets or hate tweets directed at me and people who have been raped, molested as children in Scientology in the Sea Org, who were coerced into getting abortions they didn't want, who were physically abused their whole life. And this is what the Stand League is attacking all day, all night. And the purpose of it is to just discredit anyone who's speaking. One of the policies that we talk about on the Fair Game podcast is these fair game directives that I'm talking to you about.

one of the directives says by Elwyn Harvard says, find out what the person is seeking to protect and go after it. And I'm quoting now, if at all possible, utterly destroy. So this is, when you want to talk about, oh, it's like any other religion, you need to get your head out of your fucking ass and really understand what the difference is between having faith and having an organization that has a priceless, Jordan. I mean, Scientology has a priceless.

You can't just walk in and say, I want to be a Scientologist. You have to prepay for your services in Scientology. And if you leave and speak out, it's forbidden to report crimes of other Scientologists to the police. It's actually defined as a high crime in Scientology policy and has an organization dedicated solely for the utter destruction of people who leave. So that sounds like going to the doctor and getting medical treatment or something like that, where you, it's like, You go in, okay, this is $1,000, this is $10,000. That doesn't sound like a church where you walk in, you light a candle, and you're like, okay, I'm just saying goodbye, praying for my grandmother or something like that, and then you leave.

No, nothing like that. First of all, they don't believe in God, although they claim they do. They don't, but that's purely for PR. The question that we continue to ask is to, and by the way, you should look up what Scientology did to the IRS. How they got tax exemption is by fair gaming, the individual IRS agents who were investigating Scientology. So when you say Fair Gaming, it's like if I'm an IRS investigator and I'm investigating Scientology, you're showing up at my doorstep with a video camera,

if you're Scientology, you're showing up with my... That's exactly what they did. Doorstep with a video camera. And you're saying, hey, Jordan Harbinger steals or... No, worse than that. Jordan. They will accuse you. They've accused me and they've accused Mike, his daughter, who's a Seorg member, who works for OSA, has a campaign called Justice for Mom. And this C.org member has literally started a campaign claiming that Mike Rinder beat her mother. And she is taking pictures with the mayor of Los Angeles. She's showing up at events that are organized for true victims of domestic violence with her signs. And she has a website.

And they have a letter writing campaign. The Stan League organized a letter writing campaign. and you could look all this up. They have websites on me and Mike. All you need to do is type in who is Leah Remini and all these hate sites come up and they accuse you of every heinous crime imaginable. Jordan is a child molester.

Jordan beats his mother. And it's really not about it being true, clearly. It's just about planting the seed of doubt to discredit you. That's simply the purpose of fair game. But what they did to these IRS agents, was they were following them home. They were going through their garbage. They were filing complaints with child protective services,

and they were showing up to their house. It's relentless. They filed a $200-something million lawsuit against the IRS, claiming religious bigotry. And so this is the line now, is the religious bigotry line, and hiding behind the First Amendment. So that is their new game.

But this is what they did, and this is how, Now, the individual agents for their investigation, I think it's the criminal investigation department of the IRS, because they were being fair-game and because they saw that Scientology is not, in fact, deserve tax exemption. They voted no. They voted no on what? On Scientology getting their tax exemption. Ah, okay.

So they basically said, hey, this isn't really a church, it's a business. They're not tax exempt. They owe us a billion dollars in tax, or $300 million in taxes or whatever the bill is at that point. Correct. And they submitted that to their boss. I forgot his name, Fred something, who was the commissioner. And David Mastavich, I mean, David Mastavich says this in his own words. It's on our show.

We have the moment. He's the current head of Scientology, right? Well, yeah, yeah. He calls himself chairman of the board. They call him C-O-B, or they call him Sir. C-O-B, and Mike Rinder was part of this. They went to his office and basically said this will all stop if you just grant us the exemption. and Fred was exhausted and scared and granted them tax exemption.

Oh, my God. Now, granting them tax exemption is the reason they're able to stalk, bully, harass victims of Scientology because they spend millions of dollars in a week just on hiring PIs and the highest paid lawyers that they can get in each. They have these lawyers on retainer in every state, every country, and they are able to harass. they have the funds available to them to silence victims. And that is the goal and the objective that says it in the policy of the fair game policy. It says that the product of fair game is a dismissed attacker.

What does that mean? Meaning that we are silent. You know, they're calling us attackers, right? So that we are dismissed, that we are silence. That is the product of fair game and fair game directives, is that we are silenced, either by death, by destroying our careers, by destroying our families, by destroying our reputations. So Mike Rinder, who was in this for years and years, who was kind of doing this to other people and is now out, that must have been so scary for him as well, because he knew what was going to

happen because he sort of came up with all these ideas on how to fuck people over, right? Well, he didn't come up with the ideas. These ideas are laid out by El Ron Hubbard. Okay. They literally have checklists they make. They'll say, like, plant a story and such in such magazine, and then there's a line for you to sign done, and they battle plan it out. They plan it out, and these directives have to be followed per Elwyn-Huver's policy. So there's policy about policy changing in Scientology, and that is that it should never, it can never change. So their game will continue until the IRS revokes their tax exemption.

You could be a Scientologist all you want. Well, I want to be clear about that. I don't want to take away what you believe in. You can believe in Zinu and what they believe in. But having tax-exempt money, the reason why churches have a tax exemption is because they're supposed to be doing work that benefits the public. Scientology doesn't do any work that benefits the public. They do for Scientology.

They use this tax exemption to bully, harass, and silence those who speak out against it. you'll probably get a tweet from the Stan League saying, how could you have a religious bigot on your show? What do I do then? Do I reply and tell them, hey, I have all kinds of people on the show, or do I just ignore? See, I would think that would be a pussy move on your part, Jordan, to say I have all kinds of people on my show. Yeah.

I would hope that you would say, I've done my own investigation on Scientology, and I stand with the victims who are speaking out against your toxic and abusive policies. I think anybody who listens to this show knows that I never, take that kind of criticism lying down. I always like, I'm like a little, what's that honey badger where it's like, you don't even want to open the can of worms because it's bad for you. If you're trying to avoid shining a light on your bullshit, you don't want to like come

at me with some weak shit like that. Okay, good. I'm glad to hear that because I've done many interviews and I respect the work. But when I hear that the response to it is like, look, you know, I'm open mind. I'm like, so you have no opinion about what you. you've heard or what you yourself can read, you should have a very pointed opinion about this. That's why you're here, right? Because if I wanted just to get sort of impartial description of what Scientology is, I would go to those websites that describe as well, you should. I've done that

here, but then it conflicts greatly with people that I know like yourself and others who get out and go. So there's this other thing that isn't talked about. And I want to get into what the path that Scientology offers and sells for money is. Because, like, you look at it and you look at their sites and you go, okay, cool, self-helpy kind of stuff. Like, they try and grab you off Hollywood Boulevard and give you a stress test. And the people are nice. Like, honestly, the people I've met in Scientology are all nice.

But then you read more and you hear this alien shit and you go, hold on. What? Right. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Leah Remini. We'll be right back. Now, back to Leah Remini on the Jordan Harbinger Show. So that's what I want to know. I want to know what the path is.

And I want you to tell me when the weird alien shit happens, because your reaction to that must have been like, hold on just a damn minute. All right. So do you have a computer in front of you? I do, of course, yeah. If you could just pull up the bridge, Scientology's bridge to total freedom,

then I can explain it to you. Okay. And I could give you a real answer to that. And while you're doing that, to answer your question, the confidential levels of Scientology are on this chart, this bridge that Scientology has laid out. These are exact steps that you have to take in Scientology. You can't veer off the steps of the bridge. And the goal of Scientology is to get up this bridge all the way to the top on both sides. There's two sides of this bridge. One is training. One is what they call

auditing or processing. And that's the part where you're getting in layman's terms, it would mean counseling, but it's nothing of the sort. Do you see what I'm talking about? It's a big chart. These are like ranks. So for people who can't see this, you can Google, we'll link to this in the show notes, but it's like, because there's a tweet about it from somebody who says OT8 is great or something like that. And he clearly, he's not a pro-Scientology guy. No. But this is the chart from, clearly like the chart that they use. And it's rankings about different prerequisites and like the how you get it and little bits of abilities that look kind of, that all say confidential, mostly, honestly.

Yeah, yeah. But you'll see on the lower bridge, it'll say like what the N phenomena is or it says what you're supposed to expect from that level of Scientology, right? It's like a Boy Scout rank only it costs a lot of money and is pretend. Well, it'll say like ability to communicate with others on any subject, right? So you see it says like it starts at the bottom, the purification rundown, right? That's where you sit in a sauna for five hours a day, consume large amounts of niacin. And this is supposed to free you from the, I can't read without my glasses, but I think it says

stimulative effects of drug residuals and other toxins. The old detox. The old detox bullshit. Right, right. So that cost, I believe, $2,000. And then you have these little quills. courses, let's say TR is an objective, Scientology drug rundown, all this stuff, right? Below that, you see those intro courses, right?

Mm-hmm. Personal efficiency, life improvement courses. These little courses are not actually on the bridge, if you've noticed. Yeah, these are just like different class. They're outside the box. Right. Right. Okay.

So that's not actually on the bridge. So these are introductory services. Now, you know, I can't say that these things are not things that anybody can agree on, right? It's little courses on how to personal values and integrity, right? These are basic morals that most people know. You read them and you go, I could agree with that. You know, I could agree with that. And these are just common sense courses.

There's a communications course where you learn to communicate with people, where you learn to look them in the eye when you're talking, to acknowledge them when you want them to be quiet or you say, or tell me more about that to keep them talking. So these are things that you learn that can be quite helpful. So those courses are, you know, $65, $35. But as you get onto the actual bridge, that's when the money begins. And you have to prepay these things, like I said.

So what people are doing in Scientology is trying to get up the bridge. Now, you see OT1, it used to end at OT8, which is Scientology's genius at. They keep finding these new releases, you know, since Elron Hubbard died. It's just a way to keep people in and paying. So they just add more on top that's like you get to OTA8 and you're like, I'm done. And they're like, oh, we found O T9 stuff here, but it's 40 grand. Swear to God. Oh my gosh.

It's exactly what it said. We have uncovered LRH technology that was placed in a set. Like they literally stopped at OTA. Always. Always stopped at OTA. but now they have invented more because people were going to OTA8, still dying of cancer, still dying of illness, which Elron Hubbard promises on OT5 that you have been cured of all illnesses,

which they should be taken to task for practicing medicine without a license, because this is not faith. You literally have to pay for this. And because Dianetics, the first book, Elron Hubbard sets himself up as a scientist, that these are vetted proven scientific facts. So that starts pretty early in your Scientology career. These are mandatory books and these are mandatory steps.

So when I got to the first confidential level, so when we were talking about confidential levels and you asked me, you know, what did I think? It goes from look people in the eye, here's persuasion and influence techniques or whatever, to like the crazy shit that I honestly want to hear like what that is and how you reacted to it. Because it is, if you're not insane, you look at that and you go, what?

Because you're already in this for years and years at this point, right? Oh, years. It takes years to get up this bridge. Most people live their whole lives and don't ever get to these confidential levels. So you have to sign, I don't know what you call it, a MEDA. I mean, you're not allowed to give up these secrets of the confidential levels to anybody else, including Scientologists who haven't gotten to that level because they could literally die. I mean, that is what is told to us.

Like the information will just blow your brain up, basically. Is that the idea? Because you're not set up for it correctly. Because you haven't done the lower parts of the bridge. The lower parts of the bridge are supposed to set you up for the amazing secrets of the universe. And you have to be properly set up for that, for you to accept these truths. Do you see what I'm saying? So by the time you get there, you're like, oh, my God, what am I going to read?

So the first major level, the first major level where you learn some serious stuff is O.T. And on OG3, you find out that your body, this is what they're teaching, you know. You've seen going clear? I have, yeah. And I recommended we're going to link to it in the show notes. It's a documentary about Scientology and some of the abuses. So we'll link to that as well. I have seen it, yes.

Yeah, but it also sets up what the story is of OG3. It does. Yeah. And that is all true, by the way. A lot of people don't know because they haven't done it, so they don't know if it's true or not, right? So I could tell you that is true. That is what you're reading. What you're reading is true.

Can you give us a brief over it? Because the audience is going to go, wait, hold on. People who haven't heard of Scientology or are just knowing a little bit about it, they're going to go, yeah, self-help, and then they kind of like rope you in and they take more of your money. But then when you hear the Zeno story, right, the OT3 story, you just go, how the fuck did you fall into this? What? Well, here the thing, Jordan, it's not about believing it. That's the other thing.

It's not that anybody was asked to believe it. They don't care if you believe it. They don't care if you believe it. They say you just have to do it. That's a simple answer that's given to you. So if you say this shit is fucking crazy, man, I mean, this is crazy. They go, okay, keep moving. It doesn't matter to them that you believe it.

They just tell you to keep going. Can you give us like the 10 second overview of what this is? Because when I heard it, I was like, I had to look it up and be like, I was like, nobody reads this and doesn't walk out the door, right? Yeah, so 10 seconds, I don't know if I can. Well, you know, 30 second, two minute, whatever. Well, basically, what was it, 75 trillion years ago, there was an evil, what do they call them, galactic overlord basically warlord yeah warlord who captured beings in DC tens and dropped them into a

volcano where they were incinerated and all of those beings right the spiritual beings are now you and me so our bodies are composed of what Alvarn Herbert calls body phatens and clusters of body Thayton's. Thayton meaning spirit. So our whole body is composed of these dead spirits that are, what I told you about, OT5, that are being cancer, being poor eyesight, being lung cancer, being Alzheimer's. And simply you need to, in Scientology, find them and have them realize through Scientology processing that they are not those things, that they are spiritual beings and they disengage from your body or your thoughts and they go off and find themselves a new body. And that is what you're doing in Scientology for a half a million dollars. So basically the reason someone is sick

is because they have alien ghosts in their body. Well, they have body phatans that are being cancer or that are creating cancer in your body. And it's insane. and you are talking to these beings. So you can only imagine when people say like, this one's crazy or that one's crazy. I'm like, uh-huh, they're talking to imaginary beings that are not there. It's very similar to, you know,

people that we see on the street who are like screaming at somebody that's not there. Right. So that's what you're dealing with. And then I love the fact that Scientologists, who are currently in Scientology, negate the story. A, because they haven't actually achieved

O.T. Right. That plays on the bridge that's confidential. And B, they're not allowed to say that it's true, even if they know that it's true

because it's for your own benefit, Jordan, that they're lying to you. At some point, they must lose people at this level, right? When people read, okay, so Zeno, the alien overlord, dropped a bunch of beings

in volcanoes and then drop nuclear bombs on them, and now their spirits fly around making people sick. And you go from like your acting classes and your eye contact and persuasion classes to this. like you must have looked around and been like, where's the real OT3 stuff? You guys are hilarious.

What's the where's the real stuff? Right? I did. But their point is you're taught to believe the lie detector that you're raised in in in Scientology. And also, Jordan, I want to give something else to another concept. Scientology, whether you're a Seorg member or just a parishioner of Scientologist, Scientology, once your parents become Scientologist, they are your primary caretaker.

Scientology is. Yes. So if you see them as your parents as the authority, because your parents give up all rights to you, they sign overrides to you if you join the Seaworks. They send their kids to the Seward, thinking they're serving this big mission of clearing the planet gladly. And as a Scientologist, if you have a question to your parent about any issues you're going through in life, they'll send you to Scientology to get your questions answered by a Seorg member who will then look in the book, of Elrod Hubbard. So they don't think for themselves, but it doesn't, really my point was, I'm sure your parents have told you lies, but you didn't run out of the house. I'm sure there are people out there that have been abused by their parents and yet still loved and protected them. Right. You have to look at that. I just read a book called the betrayal bond, which explains why people stay in these types of relationships if you see them as your primary caretaker. There's also the aspect of brainwashing because Scientology, you have to go in two and a half hours a day minimum as a parishioner. And you are taught to believe what the Scientology meter says. So when you say,

this is fucking crazy, which I did, they go, well, does the meter read, right? Does it register on the meter? And the big saying in Scientology is believe the meter. We got to talk about the meter real quick because this is like this is how they try to recruit me and this is what one of the ways they do this right they give you a so-called stress test yes and it's called auditing right and so you're holding onto this e-meter you're holding on to these things that look like cans they're connected with wires to a like some sort of like any kind of meter that you would expect to measure electricity or something like that well maybe we can link to an image in the show notes yeah it doesn't look like futuristic technology by any stretch maybe it did like in the 50s yeah but well they've revised it as well revised the price okay

Yeah. So they're asking you questions and then this meter is going up and down for whatever reason. And they're like, look, you had some thoughts in your head. This is stressing you out. And are they controlling the meter when they're doing this? Or the meter's just going because it measures electricity in the human body and it's going to go no matter what? Yes, it's the latter of what you said, right? But as somebody who read the meter and trained in Scientology to use the meter, right, it does register. The cells remember. I mean, the cells have, your hands have sweat, I mean, I mean, it's registering something. So you see it with your own eyes,

which makes you a believer, right? And so I actually have for you a reason because this was one of the things that I had to talk to my therapist about. I was, yeah, but yeah, but how come this works? How come that works? You know what I mean? And I needed this explain to me.

And remember, Scientologists, most of us, we did not get an education, right? Scientology does not look kindly on an education, traditional education. They believe that your Scientology education is the most important. So how much school did you have? Didn't make it out of the eighth grade. So you have an eighth grade education?

Yes. Wow. And a bunch of Scientology. Yes. Like I have a PhD in Scientology. Right. Yeah. And I was really proud of that, you know, because I, you know, I felt stupid most of my

childhood. And here I had to study. You know, you have to read hundreds of books. They're mandatory books to read. And I felt special. I felt that I was part of something special. I felt special. I felt I was on a mission to help save the planet and mankind. And so all of that working together and the fact that if you leave, like you're saying, Jordan, why didn't I just

throw down the book and say, I'm out of here? Was I ready to leave every family member and my whole life and my whole community? And what would that mean for me for my life? I would lose everything in one day, which is what happened ultimately, except my family decided to go with me. Right, because the church, people who are in the church can't associate with anybody who's left, right? What do they call it suppressive person? Is that why you get labeled? Something like that, enemy, basically? That's what they label. Anybody who speaks out is, or files a police report or a welfare check is a suppressive person. And that is 2% of the population are truly suppressive people. And Al Ron Hubbard literally says in one of the basic books that the

two percenters, the SPs of the world, 20 percent of the world, let's say, should be eradicated from the face of the earth. And so that is truly what they think of suppressive people like me. Wow. Yes. That's like a little genocide-y kind of. Well, he says this in the book called Science or Survival, while talking about homosexuality and people like me who are considered a suppressive person. The auditing is extra creepy, right? Because the sort of using the meters and things like this. What are they asking you? You know, they're asking you a lot of personal questions. Do they, and they record all this stuff, right? So I assume at some level, you can't leave,

not just because you'll lose all your friends and family, which is probably the main reason, but also they know everything about you and they have all this information that you've told them, and it's all on tape. Yes, and it's written down. They have everything contained in their folders. Everybody who goes into a Scientology organization has a folder. Anything that you say is written down in these folders. Any confession you've ever made is all written down and recorded, like you said. It's all recorded and somebody's always watching your confidential counseling. And unbeknownst to you, when you leave, you had signed paperwork that said, you are protected by the codes of a Scientologist, but once you violate one of those codes, anything you've ever said

to us, we're allowed to release. Oh, my God. Yeah. So they release all of your secrets out of context or in context of something that they forced you to say from another lifetime, literally, because they believe another lifetimes. So, for example, if you go in crying that you've been molested by your own father, they will say, oh, okay, so when have you molested another? And you're like, well, I've never molested another. I can't say that I've ever molested a human being. But did you hear the part where I said my father? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We heard that part. But we here in Scientology wants you to know that you're a cause, you're at cause for everything that happens to you. So anything that happens to you only happened to you because you did something this lifetime or

another lifetime either exactly like it or similar. So you as a child or a victim of rape or being molested will literally have to, and they have that meter in front of them. So they'll say, yeah, yeah, what are you thinking? What are you thinking? And you're like thinking maybe and they go, Okay, so you had other lifetimes, right? I guess, yeah, that's what you tell me. Okay, so can you see that maybe in another lifetime you were, you could have done something like this? Yeah, that, that, that.

And they're looking at the meter and you're like, what did you think up? Just tell me what you thought of. Oh, I thought of being a man. So you were a man then. Okay, good. So look around and just tell me what you see. Oh, I see whatever.

They make you make up these things. And you just go along with it. And then by the end of this, you know, confession, they'll say, your needle's floating, which means you've released the energy of this bad experience, and now it's now from your reactive mind to your analytical mind, and it will no longer affect you. That's it. That's all that's done. And as far as the rapist or the trial molester, they're sent to a department in Scientology, and they say, you know, hey, you can't be doing that stuff, you understand that, so you need to make up the damage for what you've done. And that's about it.

This is the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Leah Remini. We'll be right back. Thanks so much for listening to and supporting this show. Your support of our advertisers, that's what keeps us going. I hope you find these shows interesting enough to support our advertisers. By the way, all the codes, all those deals, everything you hear, they're all in one page on our website, so you don't have to remember stuff. Just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

Please do consider supporting those who support us. And don't forget, we've got worksheets for today's episode. if you want some of the drills, exercises, takeaways that are in each episode of this show. That link to the worksheets is always in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. Now for the conclusion of our episode with Leah Remini. We've done shows on false confessions, and we study like everything from false confessions in the law to North Korea, Chinese Communist Party, re-education camps, whatever it is. So you're confessing your imaginary crimes from your past life or you're snitching about

someone else's imaginary crimes that never happened just to sort of make this and interrogation stop at some point. Well, if you believe in the indoctrination, because remember, your parents have said this is a man who is the savior of mankind. So anything he says is true. The founder of the church, yeah. Okay. Elmer Hubbard, right? So your parents are co-signing this and sending you there, and the people in the military uniforms are banging their hands on a desk saying, you have done this. You have done this. It's the only reason you're upset about it. And why were you in a position where you were a victim. I mean, it's a perfect example of victim blaming. And then it's not reported to the police because like I said, it's a high crime in Scientology to report a Scientologist

in good standing to the authorities. And so you are just made to confess to some heinous crime, like you said. Or even this lifetime, Jordan, it could be as simple as I might have flirted with a kid in kindergarten? Like, they literally find a reason that justifies that behavior towards you. That it happened to you because you've done something to, quote, unquote, pull it in, which is what they call it. Like, if you get into a car accident in Scientology, you're in trouble. You don't get sympathy.

They send you to the department that says, why did you get into an accident? Like, what kind of idiot gets into an accident? Like, were you reading anything anti-Scientology? Are you talking to anybody anti-Scientology? Like there's a reason this happened to you. It's something you did. Oh, wow. So even if you're like walking home and someone jumps the curb and hits you, it's like, well,

you brought this on through some transgression against the church or against the values of the church. 1,000. That is the mindset of a Scientologist that literally they define a victim as being somebody who's incapable. One of the first policies you're forced to read in Scientology says we'd rather have you dead than incapable. Like a victim is a very bad word in Scientology. It's the most of the work that I do off camera is literally counseling people the best that I can with the therapy that I'm getting. You know, I say victim, like, you know, baby, you were a victim to abuse. I mean, Scientology, it's part and parcel to Scientology's child abuse.

Like the first words out of the matter, well, I wouldn't say that I was a victim. I mean, I'm not a perfect person. And I go, right, right, that's Scientology talking. So I hope that we've established the difference between a real church and Scientology. By the way, I pulled up some of the prices. Oh, I'd love to know. Yeah. Please look it up yourself.

Scientology priceless. So nobody thinks that I'm lying. This is not made up. This is not something that I just decided to put a number on. But do you have that bridge thing in front of you? I do. Yeah. Okay.

So if you see the box, This says clear to OT7. It says for packages of 12.5 hours is $6,800 and you have to buy a few hours. So the way Scientology auditing is purchased is by called intensives. And intensives are packages of 12 and a half hours of auditing, which you do in one week. So you have to buy more than one intensive. You have to prepay. at $540 an hour, which is like the most expensive lawyer that you could probably find.

$6,800 just for a prep action, right? Then you have another 12.5 hours, 7,800, six months of them looking at your folders at 1,700. Then OT7 is $2,800. OT6 is $13,600. An intensive of auditing for OT5, the one that cures all. all medical conditions, $7,800 an intensive. These all stack up. It's not like you can just go, hey, I'll take OT8. Okay, that'll be 48,000. It's like, no, no, no. It's one thing after another after another.

Right. And this is for flag. This is for the place in Clearwater, the mecca of Scientology. And it says right on here, a sliding scale of pricing established, which provides a discount on the total cost in cases where several intensers are bought and paid for in a single block. Such a scale is a range whereby the percentage of discount,

increases in proportion to the number of intents as purchase. And that's just for one block. That's not for the bridge. That's just for one section of the bridge. Oh, wow. So this can add up to like millions of dollars if you want to go through the time. Oh, no. The whole bridge is probably a half a million dollars. Plus, they keep coming out with the new releases. So you buy the basic books of Scientology, which is $7,800 for the basic books, which mandatory reads. And that's $5,000 or something. And then you've got to Then they'll say, oh, there was a mistake in the books. You got a re-bought. And we just kept buying, kept buying.

And do you know of any real church that has a priceless like this? No, of course not. I mean, I don't know. No. You want to hear the sickest shit, Jordan? I mean, this is not the sickest shit. This is probably maybe 50th on the scale of sickest shit that has to do with Scientology. Because you have to prepay for these services, right?

Do you know how much money is sitting on accounts at Scientology organizations? It's got to be millions. Well, the last time I spoke to somebody who left, he was in Scientology in the 80s. Now, these are for services that people never got and never planned to get. Oh, because they bounced. They left. They left. Or they were, let's say, kicked out.

So the last time he checked, this was in the late 80s, the last time he checked, Jordan, 280 million sitting in unused accounts at Scientology in Florida. In the 80s. So now it's like a billion dollars. Now, these people have contacted us, right? There's been thousands of people who have contacted us throughout the years. How could I get my 50,000 that would save my house? How can I get back my 100,000? There's thousands and thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people.

I mean, I don't even know the number, Jordan, who cannot get that money back. Because if you call a lawyer and say, hey, I have 50,000 on account, tell you to go, fuck yourself. I won't even talk to you about Scientology with 50,000. Who can afford that? Who can afford to fight Scientology to get their money back? And they use that money to bully, harass, and silence their victims.

That's why tax exemption is a big deal. There's so much here, and I'm like trying to figure out how to use the time best because there's missing people in Scientology. The leader's wife has been missing for like years now. No one knows.

What do you think happened to her? Where is she? Jordan, if I knew that I would let it go. The problem is I'm not a family member. I did what I could do, which is I filed a welfare check on her. The problem is when you join the Seward, you sign away your rights.

You can have a representative Scientology speak on your behalf or a lawyer. Even if they actually conducted a correct and righteous welfare check or wellness check on Shelly, the LAPD said, Shelly doesn't want to be found or doesn't want to communicate or we confirm that Shelley is alive and well.

Something. They gave me some kind of bullshit answer. For which my response was, did you see her? But what's she alone? Did you pull her away from her handler if you actually did see her? Was it a lawyer? Who saw,

who's, give me the information. He said, I don't need to give you that information, but feel free to file something through the public information. Which I did. Had to hire a lawyer. Cost me thousands of dollars.

And by the end of it, they basically told me to go fuck myself. They don't have to fit myself. They don't need to give me that information. So I don't know that Shelley's a lot. I don't know where Shelley is. This is David Miscavage, the leader of Scientology, chairman of the board. This is Tom Cruise's best friend.

This is crazy. Jordan, if you had a best friend that you knew had a wife that was with him all the time or her, wouldn't you say, bro, I haven't seen your wife? Like, I need to see her. I'm sorry to worry that she's in a fucking freezer somewhere. Right. I would literally think she's in a fucking freezer. or somewhere. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, no one's done that. I have been the only person that has ever

inquired about Shelling the Scavenge. That to me, there's so many stories like this, people, like, people who are listening right now, they're like, wow, she has a lot of stories. When you watch Going Clear, when you watch Scientology in the aftermath, there's people following you that you're catching on tape. Like, you're catching people following you in cars, just while filming. These are people who are trying not to get caught, too. The people who probably caught like 20% of the people that were following you and trying to do weird stuff? But they don't give a shit. Jordan, now they've taken to hiring through one of their lawyers, people who are not stable,

mentally stable. They're doing this repeatedly with the courageous women in the Danny Masterson case. They've been doing this to victims. They had somebody break through my gates who is not well, who's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. and they do this every day. Now, of course, trespassing, breaking and entering into a community, apparently is not that big of a deal.

Jeez. Yeah. A person's been arrested four times now, and he continues to come back. So you're always having to look over your shoulder for these people. Constantly. But again, this is what I have chosen to do, to expose Scientology for what they're doing.

But the thing that keeps me, going is that they don't have you to talk to. They don't have 20-20 to talk to, right? Because these stories sound isolated and not insane when in fact it's coordinated and organized attacks from Scientology and OSHA being funded by the IRS, by granting them tax exemption. This is not the reason why Scientology has tax exemption is to do this all day, all night. And that's why I continue to speak out And that's why I continue to speak out against celebrities who I wish I didn't have to because it becomes such a tit for tat for some. They don't see the bigness of this and what these people, these celebrities are supporting. And it's hard to because I'm trying to find a new way, Jordan.

I don't want to hate these people. I'm learning to try to have compassion and see them as victims as I want. But it's difficult to do when you're being attacked every day. Do you think a lot of these celebrities, like we don't have to mention name, Everyone knows the big ones in Scientology. But do you think they stay in because of the blackmail from the auditing or because they basically are super powerful inside the church? Well, first, I think for one particular person who's second in command there,

enormous power, power that you could never understand, power that would be on the same level as a prince, a sordy prince. I mean, it's that kind of power. You can't compare it to any of the biggest celebrities in Hollywood. It's just a different kind of power, and people get drunk on that power. And fear, fear that they're leaving something that is saving mankind. I think they truly believe, as I did. You have to get in the mind of an extremist. Somebody who is used to dehumanizing people who are not them is an extremist mentality. And that is Scientologists across the board, no matter how friendly they come off to you, Jordan. That is something that we practiced, by the way, behind the scenes, how to be nice, because Scientologists are not nice. We are abusive. We're conditioned to receive and give abuse.

So when people accuse me of being that, I absolutely was. This is what Scientology taught me to be. I knew no other way. It's only through my work, you know, therapy and books that I've learned that that's not normal. That's not normal. Literally, could you imagine learning how to drill talking to people to appear as though you were compassionate and empathetic person?

Yeah, that's super freaking weird. Yeah, it's weird. I know we're short on time, but when you're, You grow up being indoctrinated into something like this, and then you have to manually learn how to come across as like a sane human being. When you leave, do you feel, do you come out vulnerable? Because there's some vacuum in your psyche, right? Completely.

Like, you're raw. You don't know how to act. You don't know how to talk. You don't know how to, you know, what do I think of this? Everything Scientology is is teaching people what you think. All day, all night. I said you're studying two and a half hours a day minimum. You're self-brainwashing.

You're looking up every word you don't understand. You have people standing behind you as you're studying. If you twitch or scratch your head, they pull you in another room and go, what didn't you understand? What's the definition of ah? What's the definition of there? What's the definition of? And this is the way you're studying Scientology under this duress.

And you do. You come out not knowing what it means to be a human being. You have been taught to hate anybody that isn't you inside Scientology for so long that when you come out, you have to find who you are. And you have to accept who you are, what you've become, and you have to work on changing it. Has the internet taken a bit of the wind out of Scientology sales? I mean, it seems like now that the information... Oh my God. Yes. I mean, without the internet, I know it's a, that's a double-edged sword there, but yeah. I mean, Scientology would still be operating as it did in the 50s, 60s and 70s, although what's

saddens me is that because there is so much information available now, why it's still continuing to be able to act with impunity the way it is and way it has. So I always ask people who are listening or watching anything that we do or listening to our podcast, your podcast, is please don't underestimate the power that you have to affect some change for not only victims of Scientology, but cults like it. You know, people often ask us what they can do. Well, it's writing letters to the criminal investigation department of the IRS. It's writing the IRS commissioner and asking for an investigation into Scientology. It's putting pressure on your Congresswomen and men.

And it's doing anything that you can do to protect and support the victims of Scientology, who, like I said, if you're following the EP Stan League, Edward Parkin on Twitter and any Stan League, You're supporting an organization that is bullying victims all day, all night, and they are part of OSHA. And any help that you can give us is so much appreciated. Just watching and supporting anything that we do, listening to this podcast is helpful. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing. I've been a billion more questions. I'll have to do it next time, and hopefully we'll be able to see each other and do that one in person.

But this is very informative. I do these because, not because I'm determined to smack talk. Scientology, but I think I'm determined to warn people away from cults in general. And people, this is a nefarious cult, right? The whole, it's a design to abuse people. It's a money-making scheme. Yes. It's not something that, like, kind of just has bad business practices.

It's just designed for all of this. And that's why it's more dangerous. I really appreciate you coming on in your candor. And Jordan, I want to thank you for what you're doing and for having me on and for being, listening to this side that I think is the right side of this fight and for having an opinion about it because that means a lot to me personally and to those who've been hurt by Scientology. It means a lot to them that you have an opinion. Well, I'm far from impartial. I'll tell you that. Thank you. No, I appreciate it. No, and I want you to know that I appreciate

it. And I come on any time you can write down all your questions and, you know, I can have everything prepared for you that you need and want and evidence and, Anything that you want, Jordan, I can get for you. You got it. Thank you so much. Okay, sweet angel. Thank you again. Of course, I've got thoughts on this episode.

But before I get into that, here's a sample of my interview with Guy Raz, who hosts NPR's How I Built This. He shares his number one secret to getting a great interview, how asking difficult questions during the interview serves both the overall story and the guest being grilled. And it's kind of nice to just riff with a fellow interviewer on an episode here. Here's a quick bite. I came to NPR as a 22-year-old intern. I was very lucky. You know, I really wanted to be an overseas reporter, and the stars were sort of aligned in the right way

where I got the job. And I was totally terrified. You know, I was sent to Berlin to be the correspondent for NPR. Don't mess this up. Oh, yeah, and by the way, you're going to Bosnia tomorrow. And that was how I began overseas as a foreign correspondent. Bearing witness to historical events, being somewhere where they're unfolding in front of your eyes in real time is thrilling. It's absolutely

extraordinary and fascinating. I mean, imagine if you were standing at the Berlin Wall on November 9th, 1989. It's an extraordinary feeling to be in these places, and I was able to witness history unfold in front of my eyes many, many times. If there's really a secret to interviewing people, this is my secret. If you really want to get a good interview from somebody, you, you You need to honor their story. You need to honor them if they're coming to talk to you. And the way you honor them is you learn a lot about them. You spend the time.

You do the work. And if you do that, there's a better than 50% chance that they will appreciate that and respect that. I mean, those wow moments, they're real because what I do in an interview is I completely leave the world that I'm in. I completely leave the surroundings, everything, all the chaos, the noise. You know, Trump and politics. I just leave it. It's out. It's all the noise. COVID's gone.

It's like when you see a movie. I am just in that person's world. For more, including the one teachable quality all entrepreneurs seem to have in common, check out episode 404 of the Jordan Harbinger show with Guy Raz. Well, she was super nice. I wasn't totally expecting that. She's a very, very sweet person, on air, off air,

just very, very nice. I wouldn't want to be on her bad side. I will tell you that. But look, I was wondering how she got into the Church of Scientology. Turns out she was nine when she got in via her stepdad. Her mom eventually left. She's been out about six years or so. She's 50 now, right?

She looks great for 50. But she's 50. So imagine she's been in Scientology basically been in for 40 years. I mean, that's incredible to leave anything that you've been for that long, just unbelievable. I also asked offline what happens to mentally ill or just sick people in general, in Scientology, they often don't send those people to psychiatric or medical care. There's like a fake rehab. There's, they say psychology and psychiatry is fake. And Elron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, had it in for psychiatry. And the reason, supposedly the reason is because it was just an ego thing.

He submitted his science fiction book to be a psychiatry manual. And of course, the society of psychiatrists was like, no, you're not qualified and this has no basis in science. So they said it was essentially just a dumb self-help book, and he went, okay, fine, I'm going to destroy you and make a bunch of money and, you know, fluff myself, and that's what he did. They have centers everywhere for Scientology. There's probably one near you. There's certainly one near me. It's not some underground cult. It's a very, very above ground cult, a very dangerous cult, according to our guest today. They also recruit using free or cheap acting classes, right? So it'll be like, learn from this famous actor, and it would be like 20 bucks or 50 bucks, and they get a bunch of people in there, and it's a

front group for Scientology. There are financial gurus on the internet that are Scientologists that use their real estate investing programs as front groups for Scientology and for recruiting. Leah told me that Scientology expects you to be there two, two and a half hours per day. And of course, while filming King of Queens, she had to make it up later because she had 12 hour plus filming days during the season. So she had no time off virtually. Just every day in the cult, working on stuff, paying money to learn stuff, because each level costs a bunch of money. I asked her if John Travolta and Tom Cruise don't leave because of blackmail, because, of course, you're doing these audits, you're telling all these secrets.

Do they have insane amounts of info on everybody? She said yes, but also celebrities have insane amounts of power inside the church. And they get a status that's called, and I'm not kidding here, it's called Kakan. And that means these people can do just about anything they want, and other people have to look the other way or even aid and a bet, because they're essentially untouchable, right? They're on this other plane. And look, I would be lying if I didn't say it's a little spooky that anyone who speaks out

against Scientology is, according to Scientology, evil and a criminal, so I'm sure I fall into that camp now. Recommended Resources. Going Clear. It's a documentary on HBO about Scientology. Gives you some good background, shows you the founder, tells you some crazy abuse stories. Going Clear on HBO, we'll link to that in the show notes. You know, we know from previous episodes of this show, that when you believe something wholeheartedly, just with your whole self, and then you suddenly... realized that it was all BS, we actually don't change our minds slowly. It's very fast. Malcolm Gladwell

talked about this, right? We believe something, we believe something, we believe something until the dam breaks, and then our belief changes just in a rush. It's not like, I'm slowly converting my beliefs. We just gather evidence until we just can't reconcile things with one another, and the cognitive dissonance just ruptures. That's why we hit this tipping point and change our beliefs. So it's very interesting, but also makes it very difficult to get somebody out of a cults or a belief system like Scientology. Big thank you to Leah Remini. Her book will also be linked in the show notes. If you do buy anything from our guests, please use the website links to buy books and such. It does help support the show notes. Worksheets for the episode in the show notes. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both

Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems and tiny habits over at our six-minute networking course, which is free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Most of the guests on the show, subscribe to the course, they contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Millie Ocampo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or

interesting. If you know somebody who's interested in cults, interested in Scientology, interested in belief systems, please share this with them. I hope you find something great in every episode of this show, so please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on this show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life.

Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.