The Jordan Harbinger Show - 489: Frank Bourassa | The World’s Greatest Counterfeiter Part Two

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Frank Bourassa counterfeited and sold $250 million in fake US currency until he was nabbed in an undercover operation. Now he runs a security company and works with the police to catch other counterfeiters. What We Discuss with Frank Bourassa: How someone creates a quarter of a billion dollars in American $20 bills that not only look genuine, but feel genuine even to experts. The hours of research that Frank spent learning how to create counterfeit money that would pass most muster without immediately going to jail on his first attempt. The catalyst that drove Frank to pursue a life of crime in the first place (and has probably tempted most of us to consider it from time to time). It takes money to make money: Frank reveals the startup fees that went into his operation to literally print the perfect $20 bills en masse. How much labor actually goes into a counterfeiting project at this scale -- once you find a crew you think you can trust. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/489 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So we went to the truck, and when we got there, well, there was this whole thing. It was a canine unit. There was a bomb squad. They got sniffer dogs and this. And then, you know, they came to me and said, listen, you know, they could be some scenarios, could explode on the highway or something. Would you be willing to drive the truck to the RCP headquarter? Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional former cult member or billionaire investor or rocket scientist. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to this show or you want to tell you.

your friends about it, you can send them to Jordan Harbinger.com slash start. That's where we put our starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topics to help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Again, that's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash start for you to get started or for you to help somebody else get started as well. Today, this is part two of my conversation with Frank Barasa, the world's greatest currency counterfeiter who printed $250 million and then maybe lost it all. If you haven't heard part one yet, go back and listen to Part 1. You're coming in the middle of the conversation here.

Part 1 just came out a few days ago. We'd love to see you back here for part 2. If you're wondering how we managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, it's always, always, always about the network. And I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com Slash course. Most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course, they contribute to the course, come join us. You'll be in smart company. Now, part two with Frank Barossa.

How did you sell the bills, right? Because like the problem is, no one wants to buy shitty bills, but if you have amazing bills, they just look real. So they're so close to real. I would imagine that like, if I'm a criminal and you say, hey, Jordan, look, man, I know you sell, like, stolen electronics, you want to sell some money. And I look at the money and I go, this looks so real. I don't trust you now. Because there's no way you can make this. This is so close to real that I think it may be is real. You're setting me up, right?

But if they were crappy, then I would know that they were fake, but then I would say these are bullshit. They're fake. They're really obviously fake. I don't want them, right? So you were kind of caught in this rock and hard place. You had such good counterfeit money. People must have been scared to deal with you, I would imagine.

No, it is not how it works because good people will gather around good people, will work with good people, and assholes will hang around with assholes, just how it is, right? Criminal operations are the same thing. Good criminals, and there are bad criminals, you know, if there's such a thing as good criminal, but, you know, some will be legit. You mean like skilled, right? Skilled criminals. Not just skilled, but they are respectful.

What they say they will do, their word count, they will not fuck you, they will protect, they will work, you know, anything to get to the success of the operation. So good operation, you have a chain of solid people involved in it. And, you know, shitty operation, well, you get morons. And it leads to a shittier result. So one of the reason before I set up my crew, and I had to have this discussion with him, obviously, you said, hey, listen, I found something.

You know, we've been talking, looking for something. for a long time. So, you know, I got something I'm looking, you know, to do. So would you be interested? You know, I wanted to do that. And some of them were part of the marijuana trade. And they were exporting, you know, budget. So they were, those are, you know, heavy workers. They deal with heavy stuff and heavy people and know. So the clients were people that they knew and dealt with for a long time. So these people that they know. So it's not like You're not in this world where I say, well, should I trust this dude? Should I not?

It's not not. It's all people who know other people. It's all reference. It's all based on references. So you're not among strangers. You're among people or your kind that are vouched for by it. Yeah, you vet everyone and everyone's vetted by multiple parties. What does the price look like, right?

Am I paying you like half the value of each bill? Or, you know, like if you give me a $20 bill, like how much am I buying? a $20 bill for? Well, it was 30%. This is the price that they, because it's what the market price is really, so it's 30%. 30%.

How did you find that out? How were you looking with, is it like, well, other counterfeiters on the market are charging 30%? How did you even know what to charge? Well, same, like I explained, you know, if you're around criminals, good, solid, reliable ones,

well, they got, they know, you know some people and those people know other people. So you get where you have access to a ton of stuff, even though you don't know them personally. So, you know, if I want machine guns, I could get machine guns because I don't do that. But I know someone, you know someone,

know someone's going to have, you know, so whatever you need to know or do, you can get to it because of the network, the extended networks, not yours. But while this guy, you know, asked, he's looking for that thing. I said, oh, yeah, yeah, he's good. You know, I've been not worked with him a long time.

Yeah, sure, for him, you know, tell him, you know, I'll look into it. And so they will. So for your people, you will. Everything has a price. If you want to know, you know, methamphetamine has a price and prostitution has a price and gambling and, you know, low sharking. So it's got a price somehow.

And it's the same thing for counterfeits. It's got a market price the same thing. And so everybody into business, everybody into criminal, well, they know what it is, more or less. I know that you, in an article that I read it said that a lot of the cocaine smuggers, that you knew, they didn't want anything to do with the counterfeit currency. So you were finding it harder to sell counterfeit U.S. 20s than you would have, you know, cocaine.

What's going on there? Why is that? That really, really surprising. That was early in the operation because, you know, the first one of the first thing that I started with was with flying because, you know, I didn't want MT, you know, every penny I had and, you know, for all this money, risk all this stuff, and then, you know, I have no one to sell it to. What am I going to do? So you pre-sold all your fake 20s, right?

Like make sure you have buyers first, basically? Yeah, exactly. So you can have the conversation and all that. You can get to talking about that. This is when you tell you, oh, this is hard stuff. Hard stuff. Like, dude, you sell bricks of cocaine. What do you mean this is the hard stuff?

Come on. Exactly. So you have this conversation. It's like, you say, are you fucking kidding me? And at the same time, you know, this guy's legit. You selected him. You know, easy. And you say, well, this guy.

You know, this dude, you know, he's selling, you know, containers of us. So whatever he says, it's what he thinks. And whatever he thinks is, it's what it is. So I'm sure he finds it happy. He wouldn't say that. He's like, I don't know, I couldn't make sense of it. But they would all say that. And it kind of sets your value.

You said, Jesus, fuck, you know. What am I getting myself into if a cocaine dealer won't touch this? Yeah, exactly. And somehow, this is how totally screwed up that as well, I think it is. Other people might think differently. But counterfeiting is up there in the same. level with murders and kidnapping. So drug dealing is way below.

It doesn't make any sense to me this way, but, you know, they don't care whether it makes sense to me or not. It's just how it is. And so it's riskier and everything. The penalties are much stiffer. And so to them, it's really, really a big step up. This is what they said. It didn't make sense.

And I never had a thought along those lines before that because who would know, right? I didn't. Sure. And so it really, really, really. surprised me. And so if hitting everything perfect and your, your, your liberty investing all your your money in one operation isn't a driving force enough for you to do good product, well, this will, because they tell you right, I have read there, it's going to need to be dead on. Otherwise, I'm not fucking in because I'm going to get busted for this. And then this will bring heat

on me. And then the rest of my operation is going to be. So, well, I'm telling you it's going to need to be dead on. Otherwise, I'm not in. at all. But if it is, then I'm in. You know, you know exactly what you need to meet. It needs to be it, otherwise not in. Once you get to swallow that, because it was hard for me to make sense of it, but then you say, you know, all right, I get it now. This is the order. It's what you have to do. Fun fact, by the way, your, and I can't believe I found this, but I'm so happy that I did. Your first fake $20 bill was discovered by the authorities in Troy, Michigan. That is, Is that correct, by the way?

Do you know this? I don't know, no. Yeah, so your first fake $20 bill, I mean, it was spent everywhere, but like your first fake $20 bill that was discovered, like, in put into the Secret Service records that was found in Troy, Michigan. That is the town that I grew up in. It's not a big city. It's a regular town in Michigan.

And I thought, wait, what? And I was reading this like, I'm rubbing my eyes, like, wait, what? And, you know, what's so weird about this is, There's not a whole lot there, right? It's like auto manufacturing offices and residential areas. It used to be farms. And I thought, why the hell would this $20 bill be discovered in Troy? And it got me thinking, and I'm sure this is not the case, but it's funny to think about.

I used to go to Windsor, Ontario all the time to go drinking because I would, you know, you can be 19 in Canada and drink and then the US, you had to be 20. So I would be like, you know, just done with high school, all my friends we did. we had fake IDs because you couldn't have a fake ID that said you were 21 when you were 17 because it was so clear that you were 17 and not 21. But you could have a fake ID that said you were 19. And nobody in America gave a shit because what are you doing? You're not buying booze with it. So you go to Windsor and you buy booze and nobody cares. So I'm thinking like, okay, me and my friends did this all the time? Did we bring back a fake $20 bill and spend it? And then somebody somewhere was like,

wait a minute. This is fake. You know, like there's a part of me that. It's like maybe we brought that shit back into the United States. It's just funny that it's Troy, Michigan. It makes no sense at all. There's nothing freaking there. I mean, the odds really, yeah. Well, it's possible, but it's really unlikely because what people don't know, you know, they made it sound, you know, in the news,

because this is what they need to do, right? They made it sound like, you know, they found something in Las Vegas and this or not saying it's not true that they found it there. I'm sure it is because a lot of strip clubs in Vegas. Yeah, yeah, that type of thing. After it was all printed and this, so I wanted to make sure, because it's just a good business, right? I wanted to make sure that the clients,

because my clients are buying it, then they're spending it. You're going to sell it to somebody else. I wanted to make sure that they could test. I want to say, this is the shit that I have. I want you to test every bit. Whatever you need to do, want you to do that has zero fucking cost to you. And then if it's as good as I say it is, because you see it is, then you come back,

then they're going to make a lot of money together. So I ended out, you know, I called sample, and I gave, you know, a couple of wads of each guy. Oh, you're giving it away and be like, yo, test it and see if you get caught? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How much is it a sample that you're given away? No, but I mean, just in a $2,000 little stack. Yeah. You have to give them, you know, some of them because it's a big network for them.

So my, the clients, he sells it to some of his people, some of his people, some of their people. And some of the, so if you want it just all the way through, so, you know, if you give, even though I'd like, you know, 50,000, but, you know, he's going to be able to have enough for everyone to make sure that you can do and go again after that and retest everything. You know, I probably gave, you know, a million, you know, I know, I know, something like that.

That's so funny. You're like giving you like, hey, have a crazy night on the town and this should work. No, it's not what they were doing. Yeah. No, it's not what they were doing. No, no, no. They were released.

It's business. To me, it was business. Sure, yeah. Nothing was fun. And to them is the same thing, because they're risking high, the dealing coat, too. So they were selling it to some trusted people, they know, say, this is the product, they know we can get.

So, you know, just, so, you know, look into it. And I got some samples for you. And so some of it ended up somehow in the U.S., and this is, you know, the stuff that they talked about. But what I did, this was a lot more work for me. We're neighbors, right, Canada, and U.S. were neighbors. So I've been to the U.S. a ton of time. And I dealt with people in the U.S. for everything, you know, right, the legit reason.

I don't like your authorities, I'll be honest. Not because they were chasing me, I get that. I'm fine with that. This is the game, but I'm not too fond of, you know, government or not that ours is perfect either. But the people in the U.S., I really like, I've been dealing with you. Very nice people there. A bunch of times, you know, where I dialed in, you know, during the years, and I ended up, you know, at the wrong place.

Well, the people pick up the phone will actually try to figure out where it is that you're trying to call. and that it's a fucking wrong number. You know, what's it, you know, I'm just, I'm just bugging you with it. No, they're going to try to, it happens regular. They're really, really nice people, really are. So you're saying when you call the United States and you get a wrong number, that people try and help you find the right number? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

That's really funny. I feel like I've done that before. But you know, it's funny. His friendliness is typically associated with Canada, but I'm from Michigan where we're next to Canada, so a lot of people think, like, oh, Michigan and Canada are very similar. We're kind of like Canadians with terrible health care. So I'm used to like trying to help someone find a wrong number and go, wait, would you say the name was?

Oh, hold on. Let me see if they're in my phone book. And I'm like, what am I doing? Obviously, he misdialed by a digit. It's funny that you think that about the United States. That is it totally the way you are. Yeah, it really is the way you are. And if you call a business for equipment, they never bitch about their competitors.

You don't. You just don't. No, no. That's like super tacky to do that. Yeah. Here it's 100% that they're going to do that. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

You're going to try to, you know, sink whoever, you know, and now we're good, we're much better if it isn't that. Well, these, you know, they have this happening. No, exactly. You don't do that. And it is fucking phenomenal to see that. That's funny. You should say that.

It is true. I would never say, don't buy for someone else. I would say, buy for me because this, that, and the other thing. But I never say, oh, that guy, you know, he's a cheater. I would never do that. And I think a lot of Americans are like that. No. It's really bad for him to shit talk somebody.

Yeah, that's funny. Exactly. Exactly. So you're just great people. That's funny to hear that. You don't hear that a lot. I appreciate that. I'm going to leave that in because I think people need to hear that, especially nowadays.

How do you make these deals, right? Obviously on TV, we see guys in a parking lot. They're standing next to their cars, right? It's dimly lit. Someone, like, throws a briefcase over, and then the other guy throws his briefcase over, whatever it is. In your case here, you're handing over hundreds and hundreds of pounds of paper at any given time, they're paying you back ostensibly in cash, hundreds and hundreds of pounds

of legitimate paper. So it's not a briefcase, right? These are truckloads. I assume you're not selling these directly, but what does the transaction look like? Like, how do you make the exchange? You need to follow certain rules for that. You know, it can be, you know, different one for different people. But for me, any transaction, when you stack up large amounts of money at one spot, one time, the higher the amount, the higher the risk is, sure, the people you know, but the people you know are going to send, they send runners. Their runners, they trust. If you send a runner to go pick up something, it was like $500, well, he's going to come back.

If you send him to pick up somewhere where, you know, there's $5 million, well, in his head, sure he goes, you know, what if instead, what if I popped a guy and I don't come back and I move to Mexico? It becomes a thought to entertain the higher you go. You don't want to do that. I don't want to do that for sure. So I didn't deal a large amount. So, you know, the highest I went was $1 million.

That was my thing. So I went in $1 million. So it was just $300,000 at one time or one place. So, you minimize the risk. You keep it small. But there's tomorrow. We can do that this afternoon. Again, you want some more?

Let's do that this afternoon. Let's do another run tonight. Let's do tomorrow. I can do that all day that I'm fine with. But, you know, they're going to have more than 300k on one spot because I don't want you to, I don't want to get the gears spinning too much. Yeah. I feel it keeps my people safe. It prevents everything from bearing off course.

It's how I see it. It's how I did it for that reason. Were you ever worried about other criminals coming after you and your family? Because you're literally printing money at this time. It seems like a pretty dangerous gig because it's so lucrative that, where you, I mean, someone could just come in and say, hey, look, you keep printing and I won't kill you if you give me 20%. You know, did you think about that at all? No, no, no, no. I set up everything the way that I wanted to be for specific reasons and I chose my people for specific reasons. And I knew it led to all people involved. Like I said, you know, The whole networks become it's all referenced of people you'd know and trust, of people you know and trust.

So the more you stick to that, the less chances of that type of scenario you described is happening. So this dude that's going to be buying down the road, well, he knows, you know, those 20 people who know those over, you know, 100. If he does something like that, well, everybody's going to know about it. the legit proper criminal, same in this world as in the legit world, they're not going to fuck you over. They're not going to do that.

And they are known for not being like that. If I don't see that, I'm not interested in you at all, in any, any, like, legit or not. I'm not. I don't fuck people over. I make sure that doesn't happen. And I'm not going to let it happen to me either for sure. This is not a concern. And on top of it, well, you set up everything to minimize that happening.

Like I said, you know, I kept it, you know, smaller numbers. And so, no, he can repeat it. He's making money every transaction. We made sure, you know, he can try to squeeze me out of it. But his people, if not him directly, his people, his people, well, down the line, it comes to me. And before they hit me, there can be a ton of people who know about me. They know, well, he's not going to give it to him.

And they're going to, it's not going to happen. They're going to let it happen. No, fuck you. It wasn't a concern because it wasn't the top of people. It was the opposite top. people. It might have lost something that they called me. It's like, hey, there was too much in there. It was death of people.

Really? They're saying, hey, I bought a million. You gave me a million and $1,100. I left your $1100 at the supermarket? Yeah, yeah, sure. That's crazy. That's somehow very Canadian of criminal. Like, you say Americans

are nice, but meanwhile, the Canadians are like, hey, you gave me too much counterfeit currency there, eh? Well, we have a fair share of assholes. We sure do, but good guys are good guys. And bad guys are bad guys. That's true. They want to protect, you know, their business, but they're to make money. They want to make money with you. They don't want to make money off you. It's so funny. There's always something like that.

You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Frank Barossa. We'll be right back. Now back to Frank Barraza on the Jordan Harbinger Show. I'm just imagining some Canadian gangster calling me and saying, hey, you left me a couple thousand extra dollars, hey, come meet me at Tim Hortons and I'll have it in a briefcase under the table. Like, you know, this is somehow so Canadian that they would be like, hey, you paid me too much. So who is after you at this point, right? It's not the criminals. It's the Canadian mounted police, which is like your FBI, I assume. The U.S. Secret Service, of course, is all over this because they are, the whole protecting our president thing came afterwards. Yes. Before that they were invented for counterfeiting.

Not a lot of people know that, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I looked this up because I was, like, oh, Secret Service, Treasury, they just kind of got stuck with the whole, hey, we should probably have somebody protecting the president. Before that, their whole job, their whole job was basically to find people like you who are printing up money. Because your, counterfeiting is one of the oldest tricks in the book, in terms of making money off of the United States or any government for that matter. I mean, I'm sure the Romans probably had counterfeiting. So who else is after you said Interpol? How did the authorities start to catch on? to what you were doing.

Like, you didn't get caught. Who got caught? Who was getting caught? Well, for me, you know, like I said, at the beginning, you know, there's a higher probability, if not to say, a high probability period that something's going to go wrong at some point because it's not a grocery store, right? So whatever the reason is going to be, well, there's going to be one where, you know, if it shit hits the fan, well, it's going to be a reason for it, obviously.

And for me, I'd be. decided to add another client. Because one of the clients that we were supposed to have, it ended up not working because, well, he got shot for something totally unrelated. Well, before we could even start. So I ended up, I was left with a client short. So it wasn't good because you want to get rid of it as shortly as possible because, you know, when you ran out of it, then, you know, risking anything anymore.

So I said, well, I'm going to find, you know, somebody else. So, you know, I had two guys looking for me. They had the connection. They were, this is what they do. Like, they know people. And so I said, you know, we're going to need to find. And so, you know, if you're looking at that, and so they did. And then they found another client.

So they told me, you know, in the conversation, who he was, said, you know, he's good. He saw it. So, you know, I looked him up. And then I vetted them. And I said, and I okayed it. So I said, all right, we're going to give another try. And so this new client, he contacted my guy. He said, you know, I'm going to, we want to, a hundred.

100,000 to, you know, first order, I said, yeah, sure. So we sent him 100,000, and then they did that, and then they called next day for another 100,000, and then the third day and the fourth day, maybe, or something like that. Well, we did know those people, they had, I didn't know them personally, I still don't, but they were involved in stolen construction equipment, like loaders and excavators and stuff, you know. Oh, like heavy equipment. Yeah, yeah, heavy equipment, stuff like that. And I didn't know at a time. I learned that because of the investigation after the court thing.

And what I didn't know and they didn't know, they were being infiltrated by someone from the RCMP for the past, I don't know, a long time. So the mounted police, your Canadian FBI essentially was, you had undercover officers inside this organization? Yes, yes. Our CMP is the equivalent of your, well, yeah, I guess they play here. FBI, too. But they're the equivalent of Secret Service. Actually, I think they're like, they're like Secret Service, FBI, and sort of state police at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's true. Yeah. But they do, the only one we do, the currency counterfeiting type of thing. But they were infiltrating them. So the main guy

of this operation, the real criminal, well, he turned to the undercover. He said, hey, I could have counterfeits. Would you be interested? Sure am. Sure am. I'm in. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And he didn't know. And I know he didn't know because all the tapes, the video, I don't know in the U.S. how it is, but here. Yeah, they have to show you the evidence. Yeah, yeah. So I seen all the interrogation, all the bit of work to him. He didn't know. He didn't know. He didn't say things. Solid. It really is. He just didn't know. He just didn't know. He got caught. But he ended up selling to an undercover RCMP official directly. There was no way to know. No, wow. The reason why it crashed for me was that very reason specifically. This is when it changed where they got the lead onto my operation.

Okay. This is where it stemmed from for me. Yeah. So how did they eventually grab you, right? Because did they just follow you home one day or like how do they know where you were? Well, I send runners to meet someone somewhere and the clients, they send runners too. So runners meet. This is how you sell, you know, basically anything.

So they called for first order and then they meet somewhere. But when you did that, they sent a helicopter and they did so much. So they followed their runner. You're going to say he was going to go somewhere, somehow. It's going to be someone. So we're going to go see who that someone is. And so they get to my runner and then they follow that runner, my runner, and so they know who just do this.

So next time, well, they start with top of my runners with a helicopter, when they call second order and then so they start surveillance from there and then they see you know they'd sam where he goes who he talks to where you're and then whoever you know gets in contact with well they add to the list where you know he met this dude and so they then they add surveillance on another dude and then they go back to so this is why they get eventually to you know where you started from this is how it happened to me because since it was a new client for every client i had you know a stash separate stash, separate runner. The runners didn't know about the other runners,

about the other clients, the other stashes, or any of that. So before you add yet another runner, another route for another client, well, you need to let them know about the container, where it is, and this, and that. So I want to make sure that it's solid, that it's a viable client before I do that. So my main guy would feed the runner,

and he would take the place of the runner for the first run, just to see if it panned out. And then I fed the money directly to my guy. And so they caught us to meeting. And this is how they led back to me. And on the day that the reason, the very reason why I'm still here today. Yeah, I was going to ask. How are you not in prison right now, $250 million?

Sure. I had planned for my escape route. The first thing I planned for was that specifically. So you knew ahead of time they're going to want the money. You're going to want to find a. print shop. So this I need to protect. So went in, print, didn't sell anything, and then it left from there. And I went back. And never did went back. And even once. Because then you don't know if you got surveillance only. If you go there, then it's it. You're screwed. So I sit it up that way. And then

a way to get to that money. Should I need to get to it? Because if it comes to that, then you're either locked up or you're outside and, you know, you got to have been to the business on the time. So I set up a way to get access to that money, whatever way it would need it if it ever came to that. So I applied for that ahead of time. But on the second or third order they gave, I went with the money at the meetup place, and I needed to give it to my guy. And then it would leave. Then he would wait for the client's runner to come.

And they had followed me from home where I left because it was just a smaller of $100,000. So they'd follow me from home. So they'd seen the boxes and all that. And then they kept all the way over there. And when I got there, then my guy said, all right, they just give me the boxes. And I said, no, I'm going to back up in that. There was a tart garage in the back of the where the place was selected to me.

I said, no, I'm going to back up in theirs. One was just given to me. I don't because I don't. Because you're not supposed to. Because you don't do shit out of you open. You're supposed to hide. This is what you're supposed to do. So it's just out of sticking.

to what you're supposed to do, the rules that you need to do that because you never know. So he said, all right, so I ended up backing in the top garage, but the chopper, they lost visual of me and the way warrant work. They need to know 100% of the time that what they're stating can actually be a fact, but it was visual on you, well, the boxes that came out have money in it, but the boxes, the meat that I brought in from there to the thagra, well, it could have been Kool-Aid for all, you know, it could have been anything. So this little thing where the loss visual of me

is what made it, it changed everything. But if it hadn't been for that, I wouldn't be here. I'd be next to Al Chapo right now. That's crazy. I know that you used the $200 million, the missing $200 million as a bargaining chip when they did catch you. You know, it was, all right, we're going to throw the bucket

and we're going to do this and we're going to do this. And then you came up and said to your lawyer, hey, look, rather than going away, I can give them the missing $200 million. dollars. And I thought this is interesting because, you know, use the 200 million, the missing $200 million. I guess you'd already sold $50 million, and we'll touch on that in a second. But if you'd printed less counterfeit money, you wouldn't have had the $200 million bargaining chip with the prosecutor. And I'm wondering if you ever thought about that, right? Because you went

so big that you got caught. But also, if you hadn't gone that big and you only had like $2 million, they might have been like, yeah, we don't care about that. We're throwing you in jail forever. but since you had so much, they were like, we kind of want to get that off the street, and so we're going to give you a plea bargain. Yeah, it's exactly how I found out. Now, going in, I didn't say, well, I'm going to start this operation.

I'm going to get, you know, this amount of money. I know I know it was quite a bit, but what's quite a bit if you get caught, is it going to be enough? Is it not going to be, you're not sure. It's like you say, there's no chart. You say, well, if I do this, I'm good for, you know, it's basically all you have to go,

it's just your gut. I'm going to do a ton as much as I can, and then I'm either going to have a ton of a lot of legit money as a tool or whatever, you know, if it ever comes to that, or I'm going to have a lot of camera fit. But if it's going to be enough or not, it's just, you know, you'll know at the end if it was.

But yeah, if it hadn't been for that, if I'd done like, you know, anything, just 10 million, maybe they didn't say, well, we don't give a shit. Keep it. You're still coming with us. It would have been the case, yes. it ended up working because of that. Because I went big, it worked.

Yeah. It's strange. You're pretty lucky with that, I think. Tell me what your sentence and your fine was, because this is like kind of bonkers, right? Most people, you know, when I heard this, I was like, wait a second, he made $250 million, and he got how much time in jail?

How much time? How much money did he have to pay? Tell me what you got. Tell me what you did. Well, but I didn't have a whole lot because my bargaining was, if I give you this, you remove everything. Because the ads sees everything,

the houses and the cars and it sees everything. You get everything back and you remove those charges, which they didn't have any choice really, because their guidelines, not guidelines, but it's kind of a chart when sentencing. You cannot get caught with $200 million and get three months in jail.

Can't do that. So if you charge you for counterfeiting with this much, you need to get either, you know, between this and this, then to have leeway to it. Right. Sentencing guidelines. So if you want to go below that, we'll need to remove that anyway. So which was my request, you're going to need to remove that.

Otherwise, you know, having it. So they ended up removing it altogether. So I didn't have any. Oh, I see. So this got thrown out. So if they charge you with counterfeiting, the minimum is, say, like, I don't know, 10 years or five years or whatever? Yeah, exactly.

So you had to have them, your lawyer negotiated for them to throw out the counterfeiting charge entirely. Entirely, yes. So you got charged with what, like drug possession? or something like that, a possession of stolen goods or something weird like that? Yeah, they seized their car and they checked their car and I don't know. They found, you know, needy, bitty bits of stuff and they're lying around that I knew that he didn't have any clue was there.

So a pill or something, I don't know. I don't even know what those are. So they charged me with three or four stuff that they say they found, whatever. So it ended up being a $1,500 Canadian. It's just like, you know, 11,200 U.S. And how much time in jail? I did six weeks because of the, for the time it took for me to get bail for me. So I did six weeks. So six weeks in jail,

$1,300 or whatever it is in the United States dollars, fine. For counterfeiting $250 million and giving back, let's say, $200 million of those dollars. Where's the rest of the money? Where's the missing $50 million? Right. Was it all sold overseas? Was it destroyed? Is it still out there? Where's the money, Frank? This is always a big question, right? Where is it? Is it? Where is it? Well, I don't have a map with a big X on it. I'm going to hand out to anyone. Unfortunately, I know it would be nice. You'd like to have that probably? I get that. But no, I know. It's somewhere, right? Something happened to it. That's certain. It is definitely somewhere. Yeah. It's got to be somewhere.

Yeah, yeah. It's going to be somewhere. Exactly. You know what the craziest thing about it all is, well, to me, it's going to blow your mind. It still does mine. when I have to give them the money, so I had to have the money and the thing set up where they got the money out. They drove in and a truck, which was prearranged in a parking lot at a hotel. And it sat there. It was hidden right next to the main boulevard has been sitting there for a month and a half, two months. And this is where it was hidden in plain sight.

When we got to it, when I had to give them the money. This is the $200 million that you said, hey, by the way, I still got $200 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a drop date, so we're in the court. The time I got stopped, and the time I discussed it, 200 million, there was like, you know, a year and a half or something. Then this one day came, and I said, all right, they said, you got the money today. So, yeah, so we went to the truck.

And when we got there, well, there was this whole thing. It was a Canaan unit. There was a bomb squad and all that. I said, Jesus, fuck. I hadn't thought about it because it's just not what I do. So they thought there was a bomb in your truck with the money or there was no money. They didn't think there was. They were sure there wasn't because I said there wasn't.

and it's just not who I am. But, you know, they have to follow protocols because what if there is, right? Yeah. They got sniffer dogs and this and, well, the bomb squad came in and then they said, would you mind opening up the door, the rear panel door said,

yeah, sure, would you mind opening the driver door? Would you mind starting the truck? Yeah, sure. So I started the truck. Then they started talking, you know, amongst themselves. And then I was, you know, a little bit away and we were just waiting. And then, you know, they came to me and said,

listen, you don't have to say yes to this. It's not part of the deal. but I'm just asking. So I said, yeah, forget the deal. What do you want? Tell me what it is. You know, we said, we do this today. And you said, well, you know, there could be some scenario somewhere where, you know,

we could drive at, you know, whatever speed or whatever time after, you know, we started driving. But it could explode on the highway or something. Okay. Would you be willing to drive the truck to the RCP headboard? So they didn't want to drive the truck. No, they didn't want to seize the truck. They wanted you to drive the truck. because they thought maybe it's going to blow up.

Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I'm processing it just like you are right now. I said, yeah. Okay, okay. So packed the car, police choppers and all that. So I got in the truck. It was 200 million plus press.

They wanted a press too. I knew it because they kept budding me from the beginning with that. There was a small press that I put in there. And I was driving a fucking truck. I was alone. There were black suburbs. Like, exactly like in the movies.

Three in front, three in the back. Every road was blocked. by tons of cars, choppers and all that. I was driving my $2,000, $200 million, alone in the truck, packed with police all around and above me, every one of which perfectly knew what was inside the truck, and somehow it was perfectly fine. That's a fucked up world. I mean, think about it.

In what reality can this, I mean, come on. Even to me, this is really weird. I'm so surprised that they didn't just check the truck right then and there. But I guess they were worried. I mean, you know, it seems even more unsafe that you're going to drive this to RCP headquarters if they think there's a bomb in it in the first place. It's almost like they just didn't think it through. I mean, what could they have checked, really?

What would they need to look for? I mean, could something be installed behind the dashboard? Sure, yeah. I don't know how you can be sure. You're sitting inside where you're working, you know, it's a salary for you. You're a call. Except, are you going to want to sit there? I don't.

I don't. Yeah, maybe not. And I got that, and I was very respectful. And so both ways there were. a lot of respect. So it was nice situation that happened. And because of that, they asked me and I said, yeah, sure, it's going to help, you know, see all the things. We're going to do that. But I was driving. You know, it's a little bit of time. It's like, you know, 20 minutes or something. So I'm driving, you know, I kept thinking myself, this is weird. Fuck, this is weird even for me.

This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Frank Barossa. We'll be right back. I just want to take time and thank you for listening to the show, supporting the show. I love hearing from you. I love seeing you talk about the show. online, I love seeing you my DMs. Your support of our advertisers, of course, is what keeps me fed and, well, frankly, too fed, and is what allows us to keep creating things like this for you. So to learn more and get links to the discounts and the advertisers, all of them are on one page, so if you're working out, lifting, jogging, driving, you don't have to worry about writing those things down. Before you buy something like a mattress or some food or whatever the hell you

just heard on the show here, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals, all the codes, all the discounts in one place. Please consider supporting those who support. us. And don't forget, we've got worksheets for today's episode, some of the drills, exercises, takeaways. Those are always in one easy place right there in the worksheets. Those are also linked up in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. Now for the conclusion of our episode with Frank Barossa. Like to this day, there's got to be like you going like, like wait, so you think there's a bomb in here. You want me to drive the truck. And I assume, you know, you're driving the

truck. Like you said, there's, you're getting a police escort to the police station with helicopters and everything, because they don't want you to blow up the car, and then there's a bunch of other people around you. Whatever, right, you know? You're going to get to account for every possible scenario, I guess. So you're just driving, and you're like, there's $200 million in the back. Yeah. And I'm just going to drop this off at the police station and then walk home and go, do you have a coffee

with my girlfriend? This is a hell of a fucking ride to have by yourself inside your own head while you're driving there alone, driving slow, because, you know, you say, Jesus, fuck, this is. in what reality can this happen really. No kidding. What do you think they do with the money? They just burn it? Yeah, they burn it, yeah.

They do. They're really totally doing everything. You see they burn. They seized $900-some thousand. You gave them $200 million, but you printed $250. So there's $49 million, and those are just on assorted strip club floors across the globe at this point. Something like that.

Or something like that. Have you tried counterfeiting other currencies? and maybe you shouldn't answer that, but I guess the question really is, is the United States currency easier or harder to counterfeit than other bills? Because I know when I go to Europe,

the bills are different sizes and they're in different colors and ours shit is just green. It's all one size, right? It looks easier, but what do I know? I'm not a counterfeiter. It looks simple, but it's easy and it's complicated at the same time.

It's more complicated than easy, but if you can do stuff like that, Whatever you can do, a guy can juggle 15 balls. Well, juggling 15 balls is the thing he does. So is it difficult? Is it more difficult? I don't know. I guess it's difficult.

But, you know, so when we can do it, well, doing this or this other ones, it's kind of the same thing. It's not what makes it different. It's that the U.S. is the victim of its own, how big you guys are. So it doesn't make any sense to make any other currency. because, you know, we're not out, you know, the vendetta on your government or anything. It's not that. U.S. money is just accepted everywhere.

So you should do New Zealand money. I mean, you try to spend that in Sweden. People are going to say what the fuck. Right. It's more complicated. So you make it harder for anyone involved trying to sell U.S. You know, anywhere on a whole planet, everyone will take it. Anyone will.

So this is why it's selected. You know, that makes sense. When I was an exchange student overseas, I was in Germany. Germany in the 90s. This is before the Euro actually. So now they use euros over there and in ads. But I would look at ads and I'm in the former East Germany, right? It's like 1998. I look at an ad and there's a lottery ad or something like that and this person's looking up and all this money is falling down. And it's U.S. dollars. This is at a bus stop in Germany in the 90s. They're using United States dollars in the ad and it's on TV. U.S. dollars are falling. It's like if you had to make a cartoon character

money, it's always the U.S. dollar. It's true. Now they use euros because it's European wide and it's more of a thing, but they didn't use Deutsche Marx back then. I mean, they used it for currency, but in the advertisements on television, nothing. They always use U.S. dollars. So the fact that they were doing that is sort of a, it sort of mirrors your point here, which is if you want to get rid of money, if I show up and I need, if I got a flat tire and I'm in France and I only have 500 U.S. dollars and I say, can you fix this? You go, yeah. You're good to go. Sure enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I, if I,

bust out 500 U.S. dollars in Chinese Renmin B, you're going to go, what the fuck am I going to do with this? Yeah. Go to the bank and change it. Yeah, even in the U.S., and anyone comes even, you know, Sweden money or Denmark or, I don't know, anywhere, Poland, whatever, you're not going to take it. Even euros.

You go to Walmart, they're going to take euros. I mean, it's like kind of main, main fucking currency still. They're going to take it. It just makes it more complicated, but somehow you guys, you don't have such a big impact. pack on everything. You go with US money, any fucking wear it. We'll take it right there in the store anywhere. Everyone really does. So it makes no sense if you want to go. Your client can sell it anywhere. It's open for them. You're making it easier for them. This is the only reason because

you're a victim of your own success, I guess. Victim of our own success. Yeah. I mean, we are the reserve currency, right? The reserve currency internationally. And I actually got a counterfeit $5 bill once, which is a stupid thing to counterfeit theoretically. But I got it in a small village on the border of Vietnam and I think Cambodia or something like that. And this girl came up and she goes, do you want to change money? You need money, local money. And I was like, sure. So I gave her like 20 bucks.

And she, you know, whatever it was. And she gave me $15. And she gave me a $5 bill back. And it was way too dark and way too thin. And I thought, I got a counterfeit $5 bill. I still have it because I kept it because I went, wow, counterfeit money. And then I thought, who the hell counterfeits a $5 bill? And then I realized if you are in rural Vietnam or Cambodia, you don't counterfeit $100.

dollar bill, where are you going to change that? Exactly. There's people, you could add up all your neighbors and they don't have 100 U.S. dollars, but you have, I'm about at five. So it just made perfect sense. I'm curious, though, as a master counterfeiter, right, or farmer, what are some of the security features that were hardest to crack on the U.S. dollar? What was like the thing where you just went, man, how am I going to get through this?

It will bundle up a bunch of them, but it definitely is the paper. I mean, the paper implies so much stuff. Like I said, if you want to do it right, you get the thicknesses. It doesn't exist. So you have to have it made. And the difference between being able to have it ready made somewhere, even blank paper instead of having to have it custom made, it's a whole new deal, just that by itself, even to forget all the rest.

Just that is super complicated. And then you need to have the recipe. so you have to find the ingredients, which is not that hard, but the recipe, the chemical properties, and this is hard to find. You have to dig a shit load to find that,

and then why will go into machines, what you need to put, why not? And then you got other stuff. You got security fibers, so you have to find somewhere, and you're going to be, down the line, it has to be,

can you make it with this percent, this, X percent of this, make sure there's no this, make sure, and then at this time I'm going, this number, security fibers with a ratio of, you know, this, the discolor, right? You want to have the right stuff.

Sure. So every layer of this, it makes it more obvious. It makes it riskier and riskier. And then the watermark is also part of the paper. So sure, you're going to outsource, you know, far from here. And you say, well, you're not going to know who he is. That's fine. Just that by itself is kind of safe.

If you add that plus, you know, the size, plus the thickness, plus the UV fibers, plus a security strip where he needs to say USA 20, USA, it kind of gives your thing, right? So you've got to find a way to overcome that because it needs to be in there. This is put in when the paper's in the pulp stage. So they need to put that in. So you need to find something. It is tough.

And if they get suspicious of you, they're not going to tell you they're going to hang up. And then they're going to call the authorities. And then the authorities are going to tell them, no, no, no. don't change anything. Keep talking, and they're going to bug you, and then they're going to start the investigation. But you're the last one who's going to know.

Right. You find out when you're in front of the judge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The more you add, well, what you know is when they come, you know, at the 5 a.m., this is when you said,

oh, fuck, this is today. Damn. Yeah, the cops, they came at what? They came to your house or your girlfriend's house at 5 o'clock in the morning with like choppers and SUVs and SWAT teams, right,

to come and get you? Yeah, the whole, yeah, the whole thing. I mean, they blogged the whole neighborhood there was a huge something. And then they knocked all the windows all around the same time. Duck, tuck, duck, duck, duck, duck, you just know.

You say, fuck, this is today. Damn. Yeah. It sucks because I said, oh, that's it. That's the end. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I know we talked about this a little bit earlier, but just for the listener. So you get arrested, and then you're going, you know,

you're dealing with negotiating and everything, and they think they're going to throw the book at you. And that's when they find out that, because they seized about just under million dollars in counterfeit currency, a couple little bits of cannabis or whatever, and they think, all right, we got this guy. And that's when you tell them, through your lawyer, of course, that you have 200 million more dollars in counterfeit money. And that's when they go, all right, now we have to deal with this guy. Like, that's what we were talking about earlier. Like, now they have to come to the table. I'm wondering, with this counterfeit bills that you had, you know those markers that stores use when

they're looking at your money or banks or whatever? Your counterfeit. Could they defeat that? Or is that sort of like an easy way out for most counterfeits? No, no, no, no. Well, yeah, now this is like entry-level thing that you need to overcome. This is a, you're going to sell one. Unless you go to Tiki bars. Right.

If you don't pass that little thing, it's like the entry thing. No, no, no, no. You have to. I figured. They have to go to machines and 280 ends and stuff that have to work. That makes sense, right? So it has to be like complex analysis in order to find it. Yeah, yeah.

So look, man, now you're sort of like Frank Abagnale and in the way that you are, which, you know, it's interesting that you both have the same first name, but you're busting forgeries now. So what is it that you do specifically? I know you're trying to make documents and bills and things like that harder to forge. That's super freaking interesting. Is there something that you're inventing? Like, do they give you their document? And they're like, okay, how would you forge this? And you basically show them and then you give them suggestions. How does it work to consult on forgeries? I do a lot of, uh, brands for, you know, pharmaceuticals, products and pharmaceuticals and, like, fashion brands and stuff like that. So you want to, you know, counterfeit the fashion coat or, you know, shirt or whatever.

They say, well, you know, we have those Canada Goose coat, you know, it's not one of my clients, but just to give an example. Canadian Goose or whatever it's called? Canada Goose. Yeah, Canada Goose. Yeah. It's been involved in the U.S. in a couple of years back. They're not one of my clients, but it's a good example. So they'd call and say, you know, our coats are being counterfeited. So what can we do to disturb that? And I look at it, you know, from my perspective, I say,

how would I go about counterfeiting this? I said, yeah, sure I can. And that what were you to put in there that I couldn't? And this is where I put my, if I tackle something, now I know what's impossible to do. And I will, you know, double up and triple up on it, where, you know, it would cost just to try to begin doing that. You either have to buy all the equipment to do that

where it costs you like $6 million right up to bat. Or you need to deal with so many different companies who each have, you know, millions of dollar equipment. We're going to want to, you know, deal with you for, you know, a bunch of coats. What's the order going to be, you know, $40,000? I got millions in equipment. I got reputation. I got clients.

And they're going to risk up. And then I stack many of them on top of them where you need to go from one to the other because there's separate different type of security feature that can be added. Right, right. So you mix multiple companies with multiple sort of high-end security features where if you were a counterfeiter, you couldn't get all three, four, five, whatever companies to take a medium or small batch of clothing and put each of those features in. So it becomes like, it's like a compounding effect that you have with each feature. I do everything myself because I know what's, so every feature I design myself and I will layer that and just,

just no way or anything possible after that. Final question, man. One thing that you and the RCMP, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, seem to agree on, is that there are lots of your fake $20 notes still in circulation everywhere in the world, especially in the United States, virtually undetectable.

If I were to try and look for one of your $20, if I'm looking at a stack of 20s sitting in front of me and I want to find the counterfeit Frank Borasa $20 bill, what am I looking for? Or is it so minute the detail that it's pointless to even try? Yeah, with the naked eye, you know, it can be a toll the part if you go to the lab analysis. So you do, you go down to chemical structure of the paper. So the chemical properties in terms of how we'll react to different things around it for, you know, like readers and stuff, this is the same.

But if you go down real deep down to the actual composition, you know, I don't know where the tests are, they can make mine. apart from the real one. But outside of that, you can't. You just can't. It's the same because you have readers. You follow data. So if it needs to be this color at 1.22, but you make 1.22 says it's the same.

It's the same. The paper is the same. The ingredients is the same ratio. It's got the same tip. It's got the same. Everything. You follow data. You don't say, well, I think it's quite good.

No, you don't do that. So everything's the same. That's why it's the same. It's measurable. Do you think you could spot one of your own bills next to a real one or not even? I don't know. It's a good question.

I'm not sure. I'd say no. I would think not. Wow. That's the true mark, right? That if you can't even see it with your own naked eye knowing exactly how the whole thing is made and what you're looking for, then no one can. I couldn't when they were brand spanking new compared to brand new one.

So, you know, if it's been spent around and folded and this and now it's because, I mean, it's impossible even for me. because now it's worn out against worn outs. It's got brand new. It was identical. So now they've been tossed around. I'm sure it's impossible for me. Frank, thank you so much.

This has been really, really interesting. I know we went pretty long, but I appreciate it, man. So fascinating. Obviously, you're a craftsman, and I'm glad you're on the good side these days. Yeah, me too. I'm happy to help for, you know, whatever I cause. So I'm happy to do that in health, for sure.

It was great being here. You're very nice. It was fun doing that. I've got some thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, Ray Dalio began investing at age 12 and now has over $160 billion under management at his company, Bridgewater Associates, the largest and best performing hedge fund in the world. It's no surprise that he's known as the Steve Jobs of investing. Here's a preview. I think now it's very clear that this is an event that has happened before, but not during our lifetime. Of course it is. The last one that. that happened was in 1918, and it happened right at the end of World War I. Today, how many pandemics, wars, depressions, revolutions, and so on, have we been through,

and they happen over and over again for the same reasons. Three big things that are happening now, that haven't happened in our lifetimes before, but happened in the 1930 to 45 period. First, a long-term debt cycle that turns to the point where central banks can no longer ease monetary policy. And so we're at the end of a long-term debt cycle in which there has to be a lot of printing of money, much like in March 1933. Three, two, there are wealth and opportunity gaps and values gaps, which are very large. And those are the sort of things that produce some form of revolutionary changes. Three, there's a rising power that is comparable to the existing world power that is challenging it in the United States now with China.

So when we look at the world, we have three big topics that we need to talk about, and they're very big and important to understand. The capacity of humans to adapt and change and do things is enormous, but the likelihood of being able to work in an intelligent, cooperative way to do the right things would have to be considered a long. shot. For more with Ray Dalio, including the predictable cycles that contribute to the rise and fall of great and once great nations on the world stage, and where Ray sees these cycles heading now, and how we should prepare ourselves for the less comfortable cycles we're bound to experience in the future. Check out episode 389 of the Jordan Harbinger show. Frank Barossa, what an interesting guy. This has got to be one of the more incredible stories on this show, although it's always such a close contest. We've got some strange ducks here on the show, myself included.

Frank's mind is really cut out for this type of detailed work. It's no wonder he was so good at this. This guy is just so interesting. Outside of our conversation here on air, I asked him what countries other than the United States are printing a lot of fake USA currency. Now, of course, Frank lives in Canada, but let's not split hairs here. Turns out Syria, Iran, and North Korea are the biggest culprits for counterfeiting. No surprise there, right?

Frank now helps companies and individuals catch counterfeiters. He helps design counterfeit-proof documents, a little bit like Frank Abagnale from episode one in his bad guy turned good story. I think it is great that Frank is using his skills for good this time around. It's a easier way to make a living, maybe not quite as profitable, but something tells me maybe he doesn't really need the income. I don't know, just a hunch. Links to Frank stuff will be in the website and the show notes. Please use our website links if you buy any book from any guest. Frank doesn't have a book, not yet. But if you buy a book from any guest, those links on the site do help support the show. Worksheets for this episode are in the show

notes, transcripts in the show notes, and there's a video of this interview going up on our YouTube at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on LinkedIn. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems and tiny habits. That's our six-minute networking course. That course is free. I'm not selling you anything. I don't have anything else for sale. I don't need your credit card info. You know the drill. I just want to teach you how to dig the well before you get thirsty because that is going to be a game changer for you, and hopefully by extension me, since we're such good friends here. Most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to

the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My amazing team is Jen Harbinger, J. Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millia Ocampo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's into true crime, counterfeiting, crazy forgery stories, I don't know, Canadian criminals, share this episode with him. Hopefully you find something great in every episode of this show, so please do share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you

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