The Jordan Harbinger Show - 502: How Do I Tell Daughter Her Dad Is Dying? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

The father of your eight-year-old daughter has been given six months to live. How much do you tell your daughter -- and how soon? We'll try to find answers to this and more here on Feedback Friday. And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/502 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: The father of your eight-year-old daughter has been given six months to live. How much do you tell your daughter -- and how soon? [Thanks to clinical psychologist and friend Erin Margolis for helping us with this one!] Career circumstances drove you and your ex-girlfriend apart a few years ago. And while she thinks you and her new fiance would be fast friends, you don't need a constant reminder of what might have been. How do you get her to respect your boundaries on this matter? A recruiter told you that a misdemeanor DUI from 2013 makes your chance of becoming an Air Force officer "nearly zero," but it's a dream you've had since you were seven. You couldn't forgive yourself for not giving it a shot anyway, but are you just wasting your time? [Thanks to Evil Genius Jason LeDuc for helping us field this one!] You've been on a revolving door basis with college admissions for years, never really nailing down a course plan that suits you before you drop out and try something else. You've spent countless hours and dollars without credentials to begin a professional career, much to your parents' shame as well as your own. How can you just choose a path and stick to it? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with my feedback Friday producer, my equiry and inquiry, if you will, Gabriel Mizrahi. I feel like we use that one already. But anyway, on the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills are the world's most fascinating people, and we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission on this show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, so you can can get a deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening,

even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show on Fridays, that's today, whatever day you're listening, we give advice to you, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, spies, and CEOs. And if you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, we've got these episode starter packs. You go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash start. Got all these popular topics. popular episodes organized right there. You can say, hey, you interested in personal development? Oh, you're interested in crime. You're interested in money laundering. Great. We've got podcast for you.

You can send those links right there. Again, Jordan Harbinger.com slash start to get started. And this week, speaking of crime, we had Ed Calderon. This guy, he's not quite undercover, is not quite the right word. He's a non-permissive environment specialist. He's a former Mexican police officer, and he investigates narco-trafficking and all this stuff. And he's got all this sort of hidden weapons and all these, all this esoteric knowledge about drug cartels and how they use the occult. And it's just a wild conversation. It's a two-parter because it was just so much there. If you're interested in drug cartels, crime, policing, the occult, all the craziness that is narcos, have a listen to that. And make sure you've had a look and a listen to everything we created for you here this week.

You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. Also, if you can include your state and country that you live in, that does help us give you more detailed advice. Nothing like recommending you get a lawyer about something and you're in Canada, right? If there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on stuff, life, love, work, how to make sure your, what was it last week, polyamorous sister wife doesn't seize your assets. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help. We keep every email. anonymous. Gabriel, have you seen this we work documentary? Yes. I mean, news flash, guy who dresses

like Jesus and talks about how real estate is going to change the way that humans interact with everyone forever turned out to be a con man. I mean, give me a fucking right. Who would have thought? Unbelievable. Yeah, this guy. And then you know what it shows me, among other things? No matter how smart you are, you can always be conned. I mean, people lost billions of dollars on this investment. And meanwhile, dumb people like me were like, hey, that doesn't make any sense. And, you know, Scott Galloway, who's been on this show, he was on the documentary too. He talks about, he goes, I checked the value of the entire building that WeWork had rented one floor in.

And the value of the building was $50 million. But the WeWork office had listed their floor alone as being worth like $120 million. Wow. So their floor alone is worth twice as much as the whole freaking building. And all you had to do was look up like one or two buildings. to find these discrepancies. Isn't it incredible that it took that IPO prospectus to bring that awareness to everybody else, but there were people before that who were just looking at it going, this doesn't seem right. Yeah. There's something not right about this.

And think about your Masayoshi's son, right? The guy who runs the Vision Fund, it's got a hundred billion dollars. And you're like, I want to cut basically a blank check and just throw a ton of money at you and at this thing. And meanwhile, business professor Scott Galloway, who's not investing in this at all is like, hey, this really basic equation doesn't work. Nah, it's cool. So it all comes down to your cognitive bias. If you are willing to lie to yourself, it doesn't matter what other people say to you, right? You're going to believe what you want to believe. Although at some point, what happened was the investors were holding a wolf by the years, right? They couldn't let it go because if it failed, they would lose all their money. So they had no

choice but to keep bankrolling this guy when it was beyond obvious, right, that he was full of crap. Yeah, I was thinking a lot about the episodes we did about scams and we were talking about how one of the common qualities of scam victims is that they're desperate for meaning and they're desperate for a solution. And even though the people who signed up for WeWork, who worked at WeWorks or who worked for the company might not on their face seem like the typical victim of a scam, in the documentary, it does kind of capture how those people were so attached to the quote unquote meaning that they derived from working at WeWork, right? They felt like they were part of something that, meant a lot that was bigger than themselves. You heard that a lot in the documentary. And I couldn't help

but feel if maybe that was a version of that scam victim quality where, you know, you might have worked for four years for some boring as hell reet or you were wasting away in a crappy consulting firm for six years before you got this job and you're desperate to be part of something you actually care about. And then that'll lead you to overlook all the weird shit that's happening all around you at this company when your boss is saying, you know, you are you and I am I, but together we are we. And I'm just in their life. Everyone's like, yeah. I'm like, hey, no, grandma. Not that fun. If I were there, I would look to the person next to me and be like, are you, are you hearing the same thing I'm hearing? Like, this does not mean anything. But if you're caught up in a dream like that, it must be

a lot harder to see that. That's the only explanation I can come up with. It's bad for, it's bad for humanity. I almost in America. It's bad for humanity to see somebody who's such a grifter end up getting ousted, but they're like, ah, well, here's two billion dollars to make you feel better. Bye. I mean, it's just the wrong message. Anyway, people can catch that WeWork documentary on Hulu. It's called WeWork, The Making and Breaking of a $47 billion unicorn, which just eye roll. I'm going to hurt myself if I roll my eyes any harder. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Hey, Jordan and Gabriel. My daughter is eight years old and insanely close to her father. He does tons of quality activities with her, gives her attention, is supportive of her, and loves taking her on adventures. He and I are divorced, but have remained friends, and get along very well. tragically, he was recently diagnosed with an extremely rare cancer. The doctor informed him that this is not curable and hopes to give him six months.

This all happened very quickly. A simple ER visit turned into a life changer. I'm heartbroken for him and for my daughter. She knows her dad is sick and has medicine that decreases his immune system, so she understands the need to wear a mask around him, but we have not told her that he has cancer. I know we need to tell her. What I'm torn about is whether to tell her that he is dying.

I don't want to give her false hope, but I also don't want her to spend her days with him wondering if it will be the last time she sees him. My daughter has a very unique personality. She's feisty and smart and often asks blunt questions. I know when I tell her he has cancer, she will ask me if he is going to die. I've been doing a lot of research on how to approach this conversation, but all the information out there is conflicting. I know my daughter is going to struggle with her father passing no matter what, but I don't want this to completely change her, as traumatic events in childhood often do. So my question is, how much do I tell my daughter and how soon?

signed Breaking the News without breaking my daughter's heart. So this is an extremely sad story. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for you right now. And I got to say, you guys sound like a really special family. Your daughter sounds like a truly exceptional kid. And I love that you and your ex-husband have stayed close even after the divorce. I mean, honestly, what can you say about a situation like this? It sucks.

It just sucks. And what you guys are going through, there's no way around it. There's nothing you can ultimately do but move through it as best. you can. And I'm sure you guys feel angry and sad and helpless and all the things. And I'm sure that breaking the news to your daughter is one of the hardest parts. And you're right, the information out there about how to tell a child about something like this, it is mixed. There's no one right way to have this conversation, which can make it pretty daunting. We do have some thoughts. We also consulted with Dr. Aaron Margolis, who is an excellent psychologist and friend of the show, just to make

sure we had a good handle on how a young child processes an event like this. First, of all, you sound like a wonderful mother. You and your husband obviously have a great relationship with your daughter. And it's important that you have this conversation with her soon, the sooner, the better. Because the longer you wait, the harder the news will be, the more she'll pick up on the tension around her. She's not going to understand what that tension is about. And the less time she's going to have with her dad knowing all the facts that might breed anger later on or sooner. Who knows? But before you break the news to her, I would get together with dad, just the two of you, and talk about how you want to handle this conversation.

This might be something he wants to tell her on his own, since he's the one going through it and they're super close. Or it might be something you decide to tell her together so she hears it from both of you at the same time. That might be helpful. Or maybe your husband wants you to tell her first so that he can talk with her afterward. I don't know, right?

Of course, this is something you have to decide. But whatever you decide, I would decide together, you don't have to put all the pressure on yourself to carry this entire conversation. talk to your ex-husband, get on the same page, come up with a plan that feels right for both of you. And once you do that, you'll want to prepare for this conversation together, and it's not going to be easy, as I'm sure you can imagine.

Dr. Margolis, she explained that the approach you take here really depends on what kind of child you have. Your daughter, she sounds like a smart kid, precocious, curious, outgoing. She sounds advanced for her age, and I'm guessing she doesn't settle for vague or confusing answers. And honestly, I remember getting those as a kid, and they were just annoying. Like badly explained adult concepts

were just irritating, and they drove far more annoyed curiosity than understanding. Also sounds like your child's pretty resilient. So it goes without saying, you're going to want to be super supportive when you tell her what's happening. But I wouldn't lie or dance around the news too much,

and I know that you're torn between wanting your daughter to understand what's going on and protecting her from having her heartbroken. But Dr. Margolis, she also pointed out that losing a parent at such a young age, it's incredibly traumatic, no matter how you handle this. It's a major attachment trauma, even if you're the best parent in the world. Your daughter, she's going to have a strong reaction to this loss either way.

And children, especially sensitive children, they always know when something's going on, even if they're not being given the full story. Kids pick up on energy in the house, stress, chaos, sadness, even if they don't necessarily know what it is and they can't articulate it. You're basically having to choose which shitty feeling to protect her from. Sadness and grief or fear and anxiety and frankly then sadness and grief, right? And as a parent, I understand the impulse to avoid and protect your daughter. I really do.

But if you don't tell her directly and soon, then yeah, you might be protecting her from some difficult feelings now, but you're almost certainly going to cause more complicated feelings for her down the road. So your real goal in this conversation is to deliver the news in a way that is gentle and supportive, but clear and unambiguous, and then allow your daughter to have the reaction that she's going to have. You have to validate those feelings. You have to be with her in those feelings. You have to help her process those feelings. Dr. Margolis, she put it this way. Trauma plus surprise is much worse than trauma plus preparation. And I think that that's absolutely right. So how do you

actually do that? Well, I would sit down with your daughter, with your husband, or just the two of you, whatever you decide, and tell her what's going on as gently and as lovingly as you can. I would keep it simple. I would keep it direct. You might want to say something like, so honey, you know daddy's been sick lately, right? Well, I know this might be hard to understand. And by the way, I'm getting a little bit emotional here, Gabriel. So this is actually hard for me even to just say as advice. So honey, you know how daddy's been sick lately, right? Well, I know this might be hard to understand. And by the way, I would try to use the word hard rather than scary. You don't want to put too many feeling words on this at first because you don't

want to tell your daughter how to feel. That could create an unnecessary problem. You could say this might be a little hard to understand, but daddy's sick in a more serious way now. And in a few months, he'll be too sick to live. Okay, I need a second. People who get sick the way your dad is right now, sometimes they die. And that's what's happening to dad right now because his body isn't working the way it's supposed to. That means that in a few months, dad won't be here anymore. I need like one minute. It's so good, then. Take your time. That means that in a few months, dad won't be here anymore. And I would pause there and see if she has any reaction, any questions, check in with her, make sure she's understanding all of this, and let her ask you anything that she wants. And I know

that that script might sound a little blunt. As a father, it's fricent devastating to even think about saying. But all of the leading research out there, it recommends being specific and direct here. If you say something like, Daddy's going away or Daddy's going to get more and more sick, that creates ambiguity and that could cause, that could just cause more confusion. So whatever language you use, it is important that you really understand what death actually means. After that, I would say something like, I'm so sorry this is happening, sweetheart, but I want you to know that I will be here for you no matter what happens. However you feel, whatever questions you have, I'm here to answer them, and I'm not going anywhere. Obviously, you have to tailor that

script to you. I would use whatever language feels right. The most important thing is that your daughter hears this news in a way that makes her feel respected, makes her feel understood, makes her feel totally supported. Like I said, this will never be an easy conversation. And the goal is not to make it easy. The goal is to make it clear and connected and to make sure that you are showing up for your daughter as a steady presence, a loving presence, in the middle of all of this. My only other advice to you is this. As much as it's important to be there for your daughter, this is a really difficult time for you too.

You're losing your friend, you're losing your co-parent. So I would make sure that you have some support in place for you and your daughter. Talk therapy, group therapy, support groups for children who lost a parent. All of those resources are available to you too, and I highly recommend looking into them. If you need some help with that, there's probably a social worker at the hospital. where your ex-husband is getting treatment. I would imagine that has to be the case. They will definitely have a bunch of resources for coping with loss. So I would chat with them and surround yourself with as many good friends and family as you can. That's going to be huge right now

as well. Great advice, Jordan. This will probably be the hardest conversation of her life, I imagine. But explaining it in that way to her daughter, that will go a very long way. Man, so emotional. That's an intense situation. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to sit down with your daughter and tell her that. But I think that'll give her the right language to use in a situation like this. Beyond that, the best thing you can do is really be a great mom and a great friend to your daughter, what she's about to go through, what you're both going through. It's life altering. But there is a way through this. It's going to be horrible at times. It's going to be incredibly sad. Some days, they might feel impossible, but you and your daughter, you're going to

make it through and you're going to make it through not by suppressing this pain that you're feeling, but by inviting it in, by giving yourself and your daughter the room to express it, to not be afraid of it. Dr. Margolis pointed out that your daughter, she could process this event very well and bounce back quickly, like you said, she's pretty resilient, or she might act out, or she might get depressed, or she might just kind of stuff it down and act like nothing's wrong. You can't really predict exactly what her response is going to be. You can only shore up your strategies for coping with it in advance using all of the resources that Jordan just mentioned. But it's really your relationship with your daughter that's going to be the

defining factor here. So I would focus first and foremost on that. And on getting the support that you need, you're going to be much better equipped to take care of your daughter if you're also taking care of yourself. And you might learn some things in your own support that'll help you with your daughter, not just through this loss, but through all of the difficult situations that she's going to encounter in her life. Because losing her father, this is going to create a template, really, for how she responds to difficult events for the rest of her life in the future. So while you navigate all of this, just remember that you're also giving her a mindset and a toolkit for how to navigate trauma and loss, which we all go through at some point in general.

Yeah, I know this is probably a lot of pressure, but I think you're going to do a wonderful job here. I really do. I mean, the fact that you've even thought this much about it, you guys have been excellent parents to your daughter. She still has you. What a lucky kid. So thanks for writing in.

I know how hard that must have been. You have all of our sympathy right now, but you also have all of our confidence. You know, we're sending you guys good thoughts. And Gabriel, I need to make some kind of joke to lighten the mood because I am about to lose it right now. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the, Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger

show. All right, next up, and please tell me the next one is a little bit lighter. Hello, my favorite golden voices. I dated a young lady pretty seriously a few years ago. When we met, she had just graduated and had decided to take a gap year to figure out her life during which time she decided to get her graduate degree. That posed several problems for our relationship. I've built a practice over the course of several years that requires me to be physically present for my clients. She, on the other hand, was entering a field where she would be moving cities a lot, both within the U.S. and internationally. We talked long and hard about how to make things work, but ultimately made the emotionally difficult decision to break up. We ended

things on good terms and stayed friends, but with nowhere near the level of emotional closeness that we had before. Fast forward to a few months ago. She seems to have had a fantastic experience in school, and she's now engaged to a guy. When I saw the announcement, I sent her a sincere congratulatory message. A few weeks later, she reached out to tell me how much she thought I'd get along with her fiancé and offered to put us in touch. I politely declined, but she persisted. I ignored her texts after that, and she eventually stopped. But then, a month later, she started talking about all the new things her fiance is getting into. There's some of the same bands, books, movies, and TV shows that I like. I think she was suddenly trying to get me to realize how much I have in common with this guy, but it really just

reinforced my sense of loss. After the third or fourth time she made a comment like this, I finally told her that I didn't enjoy having her great relationships shoved in my face and that I feel that my boundaries are being disrespected. She got emotional and started crying. We haven't spoken since. Am I the bad guy here? Should I have just put up with it? Any ideas for following up with her? I'm not looking to be close friends with her, but I don't really want things to end on such a sour note. Signed, a reluctant third wheel. You know, I really feel for everyone in the situation, the guy writing in, he obviously wants his ex to be happy, but it's painful for him to see her with another guy. But then this ex, she still wants our dude in her life, but she's not getting how hard this is for him.

And her fiance, we don't know his deal, he's probably a decent guy. He's also kind of sort of the clone of the guy that rode in. He's just going with the flow. He probably has it the easiest of the three. This all seems pretty simple, but the love triangle here, or possibly just a weird friendship triangle, he's got to make things more complicated. So Gabe, I'm of two minds here a little bit. On the one hand, I totally get why this guy doesn't want to be best buds with his ex-girlfriend's guy, that's awkward, it's forced. It's clearly a little sad for him. Like he said, it just reinforces his sense of loss. And I think we've all been there. I've been there. I get it. It's not like he's pining away and horribly, he's not a wreck, right? It's not like she left him for this other guy

at the altar and he's, and then she's like, be friends, but still, he doesn't want it sort of right front and center all the time. On the other hand, he and his ex-girlfriend, they ended things on good terms, they stayed friends. So if they're truly friends, why can't he be friends with her and her new boat? Is he secretly pining for her? I mean, I don't know. Isn't that what friends do? Not the pining thing, but stay friends. I'm with you. Either he still has feelings for this girl, and it's just impossible for him to even think about hanging out with her fiance, attending a fish concert or whatever she wants them to do together. I don't know. In which case, they're not really friends, are they? Because his feelings for her are preventing them from having a healthy, normal friendship,

which, like you said, fair enough, that happens all the time. Or he doesn't have romantic feelings for this girl and they really are friends, but then why can't he be friends with both of them? I don't quite understand. Right, I feel like there's more going on here beneath the surface. If I had to guess, it's probably this. Even though he's put this girl in the friend category and moved on, there's still a part of him that's a little raw about their breakup,

which is understandable. I mean, it sounds like they broke up because she moved, not because there was any sort of issues. Right. Maybe the way his ex is going about this, working so hard to force the friendship subtly or not so subtly, pointing out how much they have in common. Maybe that's what's pissing him off. I mean, I even said that in an annoying way because it would piss me off too. I think what she's saying is, I want to stay close with you. I want you to be

part of my life and my fiancee is now a big part of my life. And you guys are going to get along great, so it's a win-win. But what he's hearing is, you should be friends with my fiancee because it's really convenient for me. And I don't really care if it hurts your feelings. In fact, I might not even really be aware of your feelings at all. Right. She's genuinely trying to be friends with him, but his experience is that she's rubbing her happiness in his face. Like, my life's so great. Aren't you just so happy for me? Like, why can't you just be friends with my fiance? We can just all be like one big happy family. Although it just occurred to me, maybe she's trying to introduce our guy to her fiance so she can make it okay to

still be friends with him. Because if they're all friends, then she won't just be hanging out with her ex all by herself. Maybe her fiance would have some feelings about that. That's a possibility, too. Maybe she's doing this for him. You know, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. Like, if we're all friends, then it's not weird. I'm not doing anything wrong. Yeah, exactly. That's a more cynical take, but it could be part of the equation. Anyway, point is, there are definitely some unresolved feelings at play here, and I don't just mean romantic feelings. I'm not saying our guy here is secretly still in love with her or anything. I actually don't get that vibe from his email, but he might have some residual feelings about having lost somebody he cares about,

or watching another guy get to enjoy the relationship he thought he would have, or just feeling like he's missed out in general. And that's coloring his whole perception of her invitation. It might not even ultimately be about his ex and this guy. It might just be about the thoughts and the feelings that get stirred up when he thinks about being friends with them. And I got to say part of me, part of me is a little bit sad for him, actually, because for all he knows, her new guy, he could be a good friend. It could be awesome. I mean, our guy might be missing out on a new phase of his relationship with his ex and a new friendship with this guy, someone to, I honestly don't know what she expects them to do together. It's like jam out in the

garage together, like watch succession in the basement. I don't know. Whatever it is, that they have in common because his feelings are getting in the way of that. It's pretty rare for exes to get along as well as these two do. I actually find it kind of touching that she wants him to be part of her life, again, though, assuming that she has no ulterior motive here. Right, like this isn't some covert way to keep him in her orbit in case things don't work out with the fiancee, and then she's got our dude on the back burner, ready to go.

I'm assuming that's not what's going on here. She actually does seem genuine, which is why I hope he can find a way to move past this stuff and take her up on her offer, if that's ultimately what he wants. to do. Right, if that's what he wants to do. And I'm with you on that. I just think it's a lot more complicated than that for most people, especially for guys, right? We all have this desire to be victorious, to be the guy who won, whatever that means. Actually, men and women both have that probably. I can speak from experience only from one perspective. It's possible there will always be a little edge between these two guys, and that'll make it hard to truly be bros. But I agree with

you. It's not impossible. And maybe if he processes the relationship some more, he'll be able to release some of this stuff and take her up on the invitation. You know, This just occurred to me. Maybe she's doing this so she feels less guilty. Like maybe she's like, oh, I left and he was really hurt by that probably. And so now if I'm like, we're all buddy-buddy, then I can sort of put this to bed in my consciousness, or my conscience, right? Yeah.

Anyway, he did say he's not looking to be close friends with this woman. He just doesn't want things to end on a sour note. So if he's already decided he doesn't want to be super tight, that's kind of the end of the story, isn't it? If that's how he really feels, then yes, that's the end of the story. and totally fair. That's a completely fair choice. I'm just trying to understand if he doesn't want to be close friends because it's too painful or if he doesn't want to be close because he actually doesn't care that much. So to answer your question, bud, no, you're not the bad guy here. You're just a

guy with some complicated feelings, feelings that are perfectly normal, perfectly understandable. You just have to decide what to do with them. You can either draw this boundary once and for all and tell your ex, look, I'm thrilled for you. I really am. But I just don't want to be friends with your fiance. I appreciate your invitation. I know it's coming from a good place. No hard feelings, I wish you guys the best. Or you can do some work to process those feelings, you know, do some of that healthy repression that we all have to do when our feelings don't quite line up with reality and decide to relate to your ex and her new guy in a different way as a friend, as a true friend. And if you decide that you do want to do that, I would encourage you to tell

your ex why you responded the way that you did, that it was hard for you to wrap your head around this at first, but that you've given it some thought and you really do want to be friends with her, which means at least being open to being friends with him. That way she'll understand you a little bit better, maybe she'll be more sensitive to your experience in all of this, which, again, that's what good friends do. I guess the only caveat to all this, Jordan, is whether our guy actually even likes her new fiance, because they could meet up and find out that they actually have no chemistry at all. In which case, her suggestion to be friends, that's not just hurtful to him. It's also freaking pointless. Yeah, right. Of course. He has zero obligation to take her up on this if he

doesn't actually enjoy hanging out with this guy. But if they do enjoy hanging out, then she was right. That's a great reason for them all to be friends. Or who knows, maybe if he's awesome and nice and they just have so much in common, maybe that'll hurt even more? Like, what the hell? This guy is literally my clone. He loves detective novels and listens to the white stripes and reads the freaking economist. Why wasn't me? Right?

Why didn't you pick me? That's also a possibility, which, again, just goes back to how he really feels about her. Exactly. So that's what we do. Get clear with yourself on how you really feel. Decide whether this is a friendship worth fighting for. And know that all these choices are valid. You're not wrong to feel one way or the other.

Just make sure that you're not missing out in a potentially great friendship. or putting this whole thing on the shelf in some way because of some feelings that are totally resolvable. Gabe, I'm curious. Are you still friends with any of your exes? I am, actually. Not all of them. Most of them, though. I like being friends with exes. What about you? Not really. They were obviously all crushed after I broke up with them and hopelessly lost and heartbroken. Yeah, yeah, that does not surprise me. To be real for a minute, when I broke up with one of my, a girl that I did for years. I broke up with her when we were done with college or like early in my law school career, I guess you would say. And I said, oh, can't we just be friends? And she said something brilliant. She said,

no, I don't want to be friends. I wanted to marry you and, you know, I want to be your girlfriend at the very least. You know, I don't want to be friends with you. And I was like, you know, that's honest and legit and totally makes sense. So years later, years and years and years later, I broke up with another girl and it was kind of mutual because she was like one of those people who worked 29 out of 30 days in the month. And then the one day, when she was home. She's like, I'm just so tired. I'm going straight to bed. You know, gets home at 1 a.m. from an airport and has to like, has like a day to go get her hair cut and shop for food, you know, stuff like that. So she said, let's just, you know, we decided to break up. She goes, let's be friends and

you know, I'll invite you to my parties and I have these holiday parties. And I was like, I don't, I said the same thing. I go, no, I don't, I don't really want to be friends. I wanted to date you, but I don't want to be friends. And if you don't have time to date, I understand that, but I don't want to be friends. And she was like, ouch, why are you saying that? And I realized in that moment, she doesn't give a crap about being friends. And that's what I think might be going on here. She just wanted me to go, yeah, let's be friends. And then that way, she's like, oh, good, I don't have any guilt around screwing up this relationship and prioritizing my career. Which she shouldn't have felt bad about anyway. She prioritized her career. Fine. Like, not a problem. I get it.

We weren't dating for years. We weren't about to get married and she dumped me. You know, it wasn't out of the blue. It was a very mature breakup. She just didn't want to feel any guilt. about it. So she's like, let's be friends. I was like, nah, I'm good. I don't want to. I'm trying to date. I'm not trying to make a bunch of friends. Like, that's not why I'm here. Got it. Yeah. All the motivations for breaking up with somebody, wanting to be friends with somebody. It's hard to parse all that stuff. I think that there's so many different possibilities even in this question. So it's a lot about him figuring out what her agenda is as well as his own. Exactly. All right. What's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 30 years old and like a lot of people, I lost my job during quarantine.

The upside is that I have a chance to hit the reset button and pursue a career flying for the Navy or the Air Force, which I've been fixated on since I was seven years old. My undergrad grades were not hot, but I figured out that performing well on the ASTB, that's the standardized aptitude test for aviation candidates, and having solid references could offset that. What does not work in my favor is the fact that I have a misdemeanor DUI on my record from 2013. That could make it difficult for me to get the necessary top secret security clearance and might even prevent me from making officer in the first place. I've actually been told by recruiters that my chances at this are nearly zero.

Hearing that left me feeling hollow. I have a tremendous amount of meaning wrapped up in this career move. Being told no would not be the first big disappointment that I've lived through, and I'm stealing myself for that possibility, but I couldn't forgive myself for not giving this my 110%. So do you think it's worth soldiering on, or should I just give up on this dream? Signed, trying to claim my spot without hearing Alpha Mike Foxtrot.

I've heard that before. What is that, Gabe? There's military phonetics, but it stands for something, right? Yeah, Alpha Mike Foxtrot, that's aviation slaying for Adios, motherfucker. Oh, right, yeah. I think I saw that in the A-Team movie. That's my military experience. That's sort of where it begins and ends.

Nice one. I see you went down another weird rabbit hole to find that out, I'm sure. Or did you know that already? No, it definitely did a little good for that one. Yeah. Well, look, I'm sorry to hear this, man. I think it's a huge blow, and I can tell from your letter how badly you wanted to fly. I do know that military aviation careers are very very.

very competitive. I've been hearing that my whole life. But I wanted to make sure that we were getting an accurate picture of how your story would actually play out. So we consulted with Lieutenant Colonel retired, of course, Jason LaDuke, founder of evil genius leadership consultants. He's a friend of the show. I've known this guy for years. Before starting his coaching firm, Lieutenant Colonel LaDuke served for 20 years as an officer in the Air Force. So he has a pretty good grasp of what recruitment processes are like. So Jason's take was basically this. You're definitely not the first person with a DUI to try and join the military. But having a DUI plays out differently for different people. According to Jason, there are usually mitigating circumstances for DUIs in the military and for

security clearances, but those usually only apply if you're already in the military and you have a stellar record of service prior to the incident. Jason wasn't sure how a DUI would be handled if it happens before you join. His opinion, it's probably not an automatic kill, but it will be taken in the context of everything else in your application, your grades, your recommendations, all of that. So unfortunately, if the recruiter is telling you that this is a long shot, it is almost certainly a long shot. Those recruiters, in my opinion, they're ultimately salespeople.

They want to sign up tons of candidates, most of whom, they're just going to tell you what you want to hear. That's why everything always has to be in writing. It's not really in their interest to turn you away because they're going, oh, you know, I don't know, chances are low. They're going to always embellish. So if even those people are telling you it's an uphill battle, that's probably the very least of your concerns.

They're probably right, I would take them at their word. It's a tough pill to swallow, but there it is. As far as a career in aviation goes, Jason said that the bigger factors beyond the DUI are going to be your GPA and your work history going in. And I'm sure you know this, but there's a ton of competition to fly for the Air Force and the Navy,

even more so than in the past. Military flight training, it's so expensive, it's so intensive, academically, intellectually, physically. So the selection board, they're going to be looking at your GPA, your work history, and your recommendations altogether. And they're going to be looking at your GPA specifically as an indicator of whether you'll be able to handle this intense training that would be ahead. So even though there's no minimum GPA requirement for this job, candidates do tend to have very good grades. There's so much competition within and outside the military for flight training

programs. So the fact that your grades weren't too hot, that's not disqualifying, but it is a barrier since the competition is so high. And by the way, we did some more digging, and the consensus seems to be that, yes, a DUI would compromise somebody's security clearance, but it's not 100% guaranteed to deny you one. There are exceptions. There are mitigating factors, but it's just, it's not clear if those would apply to you, especially since you're applying and you're not currently serving. So the bottom line, according to Jason, Lieutenant Colonel LaDucke, there is a chance you could make it in. And with your determination and your passion, I really hope that you do, but because there's just so much competition for these slots, anything that doesn't put you at

the very top of the competition pool that isn't disqualifying. End of story. But it does make it that much harder, extremely hard, to compete with the insane pool of talent out there. And Jason did qualify that this has been his experience over his career in the Air Force. Other people might have a different take, and you should definitely seek those opinions out. But for what it's worth, I really do trust Jason on this one. He was in the Air Force up until about six years. ago, he's got a pretty good grasp on what's going on here. So given all that, should you give up or should you soldier on? Well, that's going to be a personal decision. And I know we probably pissed on your strawberries here a little bit. I'm sorry about that, but I know you're asking for

an inside scoop and I wanted to give it to you. So look, if you've decided to stop now and drop out of the recruitment process, I totally understand. I'm sure it's a lot of work to apply, interview, wait for a response, all of that. If you wanted to take all of that energy and put it into something where the odds of success are higher, that would make sense to me. It wouldn't mean you're a failure. It would just mean that you're being realistic and practical. But if you feel you've come this far and you want to see this through so you can prove something for yourself or to yourself, I totally get that to on a certain level I admire that. Also, your chances of getting in are not zero. So maybe it's worth fighting for your slot. And if you do, I would work your ass off to give

yourself every possible advantage, writing an undeniable personal statement, getting killer recommendations, crushing the, what is it, the ASTB, building strong, that's like a standardized test, building strong relationships with recruiters and mentors, all of that. If you tip the scales in your favor, it'll be because of those things, just like with any other job. And yes, networking does matter in the military. But I do think it's smart to temper your expectations. Like you said, you're stealing yourself for the possibility that you won't make it in. And that's a healthy attitude to take regardless. And by the way, you should make sure that you're cool with wherever you might end up if you

don't end up in aviation. Come up with something that is maybe a second choice. Because what you don't want is to not get aviation and then go, crap, I just signed up for six years and I'm going to be working at like a warehouse that ships equipment. This is not great. This is a living hell. You know, those guys that get stuck on submarines when they're claustrophobic or they're afraid to do XYZ and they end up doing just that. That can happen, but you should be able to fight for a

different path if it's like, look, you're not getting aviation. You're like, okay, fine, I want to be an aircraft mechanic. Great. All right. We'll get you trained up for that. You want to make sure that you're not just like, hey, give me whatever you got. That's not going to, that could end up in disaster. Right, right. I agree with you, Jordan. If this career path doesn't end up working out, I would definitely think about opening up your aperture a little bit, see what other options are available to you around aviation or even other than aviation if there is something you could care about as much as this. Lieutenant Colonel Leduc, he pointed out that if you really want to serve in the military, there are definitely tons of options outside of aviation. So do some research, talk to more folks,

see what other roles could interest you. If you don't end up getting accepted into one of these programs, the military will not necessarily be like, sorry, bye, you know, send you on your way packing and you have to figure it out. They might still want you. They just might want you in a different role. I love how focused you are on flying. I really do, but don't be afraid to open up your mind here a little bit. If you look for other ways to be a value and to serve, you might actually be surprised to discover that there's another amazing path that's waiting for you. So just keep in mind that the whole security clearance thing, that might come into play here too. Lieutenant Colonel Ladoe, he pointed out that it's very hard to be in the military without some kind of clearance. Whether

it's a secret clearance or a top secret clearance, you might not need it right away, but almost certainly you'll need it down the line. Right. We wish you the best in this process we really do. Whether you get this position or not, I'm sure it's teaching you a lot about yourself. And who knows, sticking with this goal, maybe that's more about proving to yourself that you have what it takes to go after what you want. And what you're really doing is teaching yourself how to chase your dream or a dream. If that's the case, this is all time and energy well spent, because this might not be the dream you end up getting, but the one that turns out to be your path when you land that, it'll be because you went after that with the same kind of drive and commitment that you are

discovering you have right now, if that makes sense. And that's super important, man. I commend you for taking yourself seriously enough to put your pride on the line. I really do. You're playing with heart. Most people are too afraid to even try to do that. So good luck, man. And know that whatever's on the other side of this outcome, it's all good, as long as you keep working hard to be the best possible candidate that you can be. This is the Jordan Harbinger show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and or services? You can always visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show.

And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right, last but not least. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I've been a longtime listener and I just wanted to thank you for all that you've done. Your show was recommended to me by a friend during one of the darkest moments of my life and has played a very huge role in building my confidence. I'm glad we could help, man. Thanks for sharing that. I'm writing because I can't seem to stick with anything I choose to study. I dropped out of my computer science degree to pursue being a self-taught web developer. Then after a year of pursuing that, I switched to IT. Then after that, I switched back to web development. Then I decided to start going to online college, and then I went back to web development. And now I'm back at the college that I left

three years ago repeating the same cycle and thinking about dropping out all over again in order to switch to a one-year technical college that specializes in technology. I've been fully independent for my parents since I was 18, but I can just imagine calling them and telling them that I'm dropping out again and physically hearing their eyes roll. I'm Asian, and my parents are stereotypical Asian parents who don't think that you can be successful without a degree. You're 25, you need to figure your life out now, and are you actually going to finish this, or are you just going to give up like last time? Oof, that's rough. Cringe, yikes. That sucks. It also doesn't help that I'm the only one of my siblings that seems to have this issue. All of them completed great degrees, debt-free,

because of scholarships and they make great money while I still make $15 an hour cleaning cars. I don't want to finish my bachelor's because I would have to go into about $40,000 worth of debt, but I'm worried that I won't be able to find a job just by going to a technical college or getting IT certifications. Making this decision has really been tough on my mental health, and it seems like no matter what I choose, I'm going to go wrong somewhere. What would you do? Signed, double down and perspire or halt and catch fire? Well, thanks for writing in, man.

I'm sorry that you've been spinning your wheels here. and hear how badly you want to move past this and get your life on track. I'm sure it doesn't help that you feel this pressure from your parents. I'm sure they're just as frustrated as you are, but it doesn't really sound like they're communicating it in a very helpful way. And then they're your siblings. You can't help but compare yourself to them, so that's really rough too. I feel for you, bud, and you're right. You definitely have to fix this problem. But I can say, I love your openness about all this. I think it's great you're able to face this issue head on. I hope we can help you do that a little bit. So my question for you is really this.

What's going on for you when you hit a wall and you give up on something? When you dropped out from your computer science program, what was your experience? Was it hard? Did you feel intimidated by the curriculum? Did you just not want to do the work? Did you think you were above doing the work? And then when you gave up on being a self-taught web developer, same question. What do you remember feeling and thinking back then?

Was it hard to be disciplined? Were you angry with yourself for not sticking to a schedule? And now that you're back at your old school and thinking about dropping out again, what are you noticing about yourself? Are you depressed? Are you anxious? Are you bored? If you're going to crack this problem, you need to start getting a lot more curious about yourself. So your beliefs, your feelings, your mood, what comes up for you in the days and weeks leading up to you giving up on something?

That's the mystery you need to solve. Because it's interesting. In your email, you skipped over all of that. All you told us was how many things you've dropped and picked up again, which tells me you're not Maybe you're not really in touch with what's happening for you, inside of you, that's driving you to repeat the pattern over and over again. So I would take some time to really think about that, and I would encourage you to talk to some people you trust about that.

A therapist is probably going to be great. They've got training for this kind of thing. In fact, talking to a professional right now could really be a game changer for you. I highly recommend doing that. You know, I'm going to say it, but betterhelp.com slash Jordan is a good place to start with that. Better help, therapist, talk therapy. but you should also talk to a friend, a professor, a mentor, maybe your siblings if you feel

comfortable doing that. Tell them what you are struggling with. Tell them how you feel when you want to give up. Ask them if they have any advice or insight for you. I would write down everything that comes up for you along the way. So keep a journal, keep notes, make it real. Your job right now is to get curious about yourself and start processing what is going on beneath the impulse to give up. otherwise your only options are going to be to soldier on and be miserable in your career or give up and sink deeper into the frustration and shame that you are feeling right now and then hearing it from your mom because you're not figuring out the root of the problem. You're just trying to avoid it or manage it.

Yeah, I agree, Jordan, 100%. And when you do start to get into this stuff, you might be surprised by what you find. Maybe you realize that you struggle to stick with things when they get hard. Maybe it makes you feel confused or intimidated and dropping out as a way to avoid some of the shame that comes up when you struggle a little bit. Or maybe you find out that you totally have what it takes to do a computer science degree, but that you actually don't really like programming all that much.

And what's really going on here is that you just hate what you're doing, so it's really hard to stick with it. Or maybe you realize that you do love coding, but you're afraid of the commitment required to double down on the one thing that you're really good at and you actually maybe resent your parents for putting all this pressure on you to succeed, but not really backing that up with the confidence that you expect from them in you.

I'm actually going to go out on a limb, Jordan say that his parents are definitely a factor here, regardless of what else is going on for him, that's a great reason to go into therapy on its own, but taken as a whole, that probably makes everything else even harder. And so when you hit a wall at school, I'm guessing that you're not just staring down the barrel of a couple Cs, which would be hard to handle, or, you know, dealing with what your parents are going to say, you're staring down the barrel of what your whole family thinks of you, your siblings, all of your most fundamental feelings about yourself. So yes, you really do have to go inside if you want to fix the outside. And I know I kind of sound like Morpheus from the Matrix right now,

but it's true. All of these things are possible. We can't tell you exactly what's going on here. That's up to you. But once you do start to appreciate what's at play for you, then you can start to resolve it. So if you realize that you hate coding, then it's time to be honest with yourself about that and start getting curious about what you actually care about. If you discover that you don't have enough self-esteem to follow through on your goals, then I would explore the roots of that feeling, maybe take on some smaller challenges to build up your confidence a little bit, consider using your degree as a way to rewrite that belief. And if your parents are making things harder for you with the way that they respond when you come home, that kind of thing, then I would think about talking to them about that. Maybe you can

help them understand how what they say is undermining you. And if they just keep piling on, then maybe you want to consider how much contact you have with them for a little while, or at least be more careful about what you decide to bring to them. All of these things are on the table. But you have to diagnose yourself first. And I'm with Jordan. Doing that with a therapist, that would be huge for you right now. Agreed. And look, I'm not saying that the ultimate goal here is to work on yourself so you can finish school. I'm one of the loudest critics of the whole graduate college or else thing, right? School just is not for everyone. And I really do believe you can go further and faster with the

right combination of apprenticing and creating and self-learning. So if you hate computer science and this degree is just going to leave you 40 grand in debt and you spend the next 30 years getting out from under that, it might be the right move to drop out. But then you have to be committed to following your skills and your interests to something that you truly care about. And know that dropping out for good won't solve the underlying psychological stuff at play here. So good luck, man. Like I said, your willingness to look at this stuff, that is a huge asset. Use it to learn more about yourself.

Think of this struggle as an opportunity to get more in touch with who you are. And I'm confident that will lead you to a much better place. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week. Go back and check out the Ed Calderon episodes if you haven't yet. Also, if you want to know how I managed to book people through the show, it's always about my network, and I'm teaching you how to build a network. A lot of you have been using these skills to negotiate higher salaries or get better jobs. Speaking of that last question there, it's all about

systems, software, tiny habits. Check out our six-minute networking course. That course is free. It's on the think-ific platform. They just went public. Congratulations. That link to that course is at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Again, it's all free. It's not fluff, it's critical stuff. I wish I knew it 20 years ago. I think it would have been a game changer for me from when I discovered it. I wish I'd gotten it younger. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course.

A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of the Feedback Friday going up on the YouTube channel. Eventually. Right now, it's only interviews. We're going to start doing Feedback Friday at some point. Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram.

or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Keep sending in those questions to Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own, and I'm a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. And remember, we rise, by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. We've got a trailer of our interview with Caesar Milan, the dog whisperer.

Caesar tells us how he went from impoverished Sinaloan kid to homeless immigrant to world-famous dog training guru. We'll also learn how to communicate better with animals by understanding the priority of their senses compared to our own. When I was 10 years old, I told my mom, mom, when I go, oh, I'm going to be a drug dealer, and she's shook. Oh, wow. Slap me across the face. They say, if you want to kill me, that's what you do.

And when I was 13 years old, I told my mom, mom, you think you be the best dog train in the world? She turned around. She said, you can be whatever you want. So I spent Christmas and New Year's at the border trying to jump it. You get this reputation as the guy who can walk 30 dogs. That's when I can't. So that, it was in San Diego.

You were kind of this underground guy for a while that could walk all these dogs. In L.A. In L.A. With no leash and the gangbangers are hanging out. Like, there goes the crazy guy with all the dogs. Don't mess with the guy with the ducks. My customers were NBA players, you know, NFL players. So your word is afraid.

Yeah. Nicholas Cage? Nicholas Cage. Ben Diesel. How did they hear about you? The Mexican guy in the street. You're washing limos. You're like, yeah, I want to be on TV.

Yeah. People must have been like, okay, buddy. Most of them. I was first interviewed by the LA Times. At the end of the conversation, the lady says, so what would you like to do next? I said, well, I would like to have a TV show. So I manifested the TV show way before producers came,

and I had no idea. I didn't know that dishonesty part in Hollywood. You better have a good pack of lawyers. For more from Caesar Milan, including how animal behavior is reflective of their human owners, check out episode 162 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time.

If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast, focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. recently they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think the benefits of laughter why sports fans get so invested and what makes people like you or not the through line is always the same smart ideas you can actually use in real life something you should know has been featured in apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting so if you want another show that scratches that i want to understand how people in the world really work itch search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts look for the bright yellow light bulb and start Start listening. You can thank me later.