The Jordan Harbinger Show - 520: Medical Meddling's Wack from Bipolar Hypochondriac | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

Enduring your bipolar mother's hypochondria your entire life has made you neglectful of your own health. Now she won't stop meddling in your medical business since you were recently sent to the ER with an undiagnosed condition. How can you get your mother to back off without completely ruining your already strained relationship? We'll dig into this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/520 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Have you played The Jordan Harbinger Show Bingo yet? Thanks to the work of a fellow dedicated listener, now you can! Your bipolar hypochondriac mom won't stop meddling in your medical affairs. How can you get her to back off without completely ruining your already strained relationship? [Thanks to clinical psychologist Dr. Erin Margolis for helping us field this one!] You've noticed the bad influence of an older neighborhood kid rubbing off on your six-year-old daughter, and having met his emotionally volatile parents, you see the bad apple didn't fall far from the tree. How can you minimize the effects of this negative behavior without being needlessly punitive toward these children? Are you experiencing "early-onset imposter syndrome" because you're worried about lazy habits picked up during quarantine stunting the level of overachievement that got you into law school? You were laid off one day before your last retirement accrual through the company's employee stock ownership plan. You're doing well enough financially, but you're rightfully angry to have been cheated out of this benefit in such an underhanded manner. Do you have any legal recourse, and should you pursue it? [Thanks to once-adversary, now-friend, and attorney Jeremy Golan for helping us with this one!] Your late father was a much-loved pillar of the community, and everyone in town had their own story about how he had come through for them in their time of need. Does Six-Minute Networking advise a way to responsibly enjoy this inherited social capital without coming off like a petulant so-and-so? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Feedback Friday, producer, my right-hand man and rescue, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening. happening, even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show on Fridays, that's today, whatever day it is, it's Friday. We give advice to you, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. Now, if you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show and get them started, we have episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topic to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit

Jordan Harbinger.com slash start to get started. This week we had the legendary Daniel Conneman, Nobel Prize winner. I've been trying to get him for a decade and change. Had a great, great show this week with him about his new book, Noise, and how to make better decisions, among other things. Just a fascinating guy. Obviously, you have to catch that one. We also had Dacker Keltner with a timely discussion on how power or lack of power affects humans from economics to even physical health, another interesting nexus there that I'd never thought about. So make sure you had to listen to everything we created for you here this week.

By the way, somebody made a bingo card for the show. They sent it to me on Facebook Messenger. This is like a, I guess I overused some of these tropes. Look, I don't know, people are new to the show. I have to introduce them, but the squares are grew up in Michigan, studied abroad in Germany, studied abroad in Israel, oops, that's popular right now, lived in Serbia, went to law school, went to North Korea, kidnapped twice, had another podcast, has an Asian wife. Do I really overuse all that? Do I say those things so much that you need a bingo card?

Wait a second. So what's the game? The game is every time I say that they like hit a square. Got it. And then I guess it's probably better for you than taking a shot each time because you might die by the end of the show. Apparently, apparently everyone knows I grew up in Michigan and went to law school. I get it, okay? I can't stop. Do they have to wait until you say, hey, by the way, I grew up. in Michigan, or do they just listen to the way that you said words like, had? Yeah, they just listen to the Michigan accent and then there it is. You know, the reason that I do this is because I can't assume that somebody who comes in has heard the past 14 years of this podcast, but, you know,

maybe, maybe just maybe I should pay attention to how frequently these topics come up. I don't know. Plus, maybe I'll throw a curb ball in there, like maybe I'll get kidnapped again or maybe I'll change wives. Like, who knows? You never know. You never know. Could be kidnapped three times. That's right. Kidnap 3X. All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 22 years old, and my entire life, my mother has fixated on different medical problems she thinks she has, diagnosing herself and now me, using the internet.

She's bipolar, and I don't have the most stable relationship with her, so hearing about all of her conditions, real or perceived, is exhausting. Sometimes I even think she's faking it for the attention. I actually find myself not dealing with my own medical problems because I don't want to be perceived the way that I perceive her. In the last month, my health got so bad that I finally caved and saw my doctor. Things must have been worse than I thought because he actually sent me straight to the ER. I got referred to a specialist, but since then, my mother has been constantly trying to diagnose me. I've been trying to ignore it, but with her being bipolar, I'm constantly

walking on eggshells. If I reject her opinion, it's game over. All of this has just been adding stress to my already stressful situation. At this point, I don't even want to tell her what my actual doctors end up finding. I expect her to either take credit for my diagnosis or completely reject it for not being her idea. How can I get my mom to back off without offending her and ruining our relationship completely? Signed, paging Dr. Makebelieve to the Mind Your Own Business Ward. Well, this is a fascinating story. We get a lot of emails from people whose parents have mental health issues for sure, but the medical aspect of this one, that is new. And I'm sorry that you've been going through this with your mom. I know that having a bipolar parent always creates

challenges. But in this case, your relationship with mom has affected your physical health, and it's also played a huge role in how you see yourself and how you think other people see you, which I suppose is normal with a parent. I know how hard that must be. It's probably pretty damn exhausting as well. To me, honestly, Gabriel, it sounds annoying as hell, which I realize is an understatement. And this person deserves a damn medal of honor for handling their mom all these years. I just can't, it would be so infuriating to have somebody do this to me. Well, we wanted to make sure we had a good grasp of your situation. So we consulted with Dr. Aaron Margolis, a clinical psychologist and friend of the show. And Dr. Margolis's opinion, and I share her view, is that the general approach to a parent like this

comes down to managing your expectations and creating healthy boundaries. So let's talk about your expectations first. I get the sense that a lot of the pain you're experiencing with your mom comes from the fact that you wish she were one kind of mom when she's actually this totally other kind of mom. And that makes sense. That's completely normal. Of course you want a mom who's supportive and sensitive and not under the delusion that she went to Harvard Medical School because she spent 90 minutes on freaking WebMD. But the fact is, this is the mother you have. You know how she operates. You know how she thinks. So you have enough data now to know what you can and cannot reasonably expect from her, especially when it comes to your medical issues. So Dr. Margolis' advice is this. If you decide to tell her

what your doctors end up finding, then you have to manage your expectations about what her response will be. If you keep hoping that she'll be compassionate or she'll say something helpful, when you know that she probably won't, then you'll continue to be disappointed, frustrated, hurt, all that. But if you share that information knowing that she probably won't give you what you really need, then you'll still feel the pain of that response, but you won't feel that additional pain. And it might even be the biggest part of your pain, the pain that comes from expecting one thing and getting something very different. So I'm going to say that again, because I think it's really important. A lot of our pain in life comes from expecting one thing and getting something different. So I would get clear on what those

expectations are for you. And part of this is also assessing whether your wants here are reasonable. And as Dr. Margolis points out, wanting your mom to back off, I mean, she's your mom. She might never back off because in her own dysfunctional, often very annoying way, she cares. So define for yourself what backing off really means. Maybe you tell her mom, I really need support right now, and the way you're trying to give me that support, it's not very supportive. It would mean a lot more and be a lot more helpful if you just listened to me,

if you didn't try to Google my symptoms, and if you just let me be worried with you, something like that. Now, you might be talking to a brick wall, but you'd be communicating with her a lot more clearly. And then, of course, you'll have to just accept that she might not be able to meet that need. And that's not a reflection of whether your needs are fair or legitimate. It's just you accurately responding to what your mom is even capable of mentally, emotionally. Because she's obviously not going to change at this point, but you can change.

So once you get clear on that, then you've got to decide how you want to relate to your mom. Ignoring her completely, while I'm sure you want to do that sometimes, probably not the answer. That'll probably activate your mom even more or train. whatever the word is, and just avoid the issue, kicking the can down the road. So this is where you have to find the respectful but firm line that gets your mom to back off without offending her or ruining your relationship completely. And that, according to Dr. Margolis, that's about how you frame those boundaries. This doesn't have to be an insult or rejection. You know, mom, leave me the fuck alone. The doctors are working on it. I know you probably want to say

that. I sure would. That's a very different way of asserting a boundary from something like, listen, mom, I know you're worried about me, and I know you're trying to help, but what you're doing is making me more nervous. You're making me more anxious. I really need you to give me support more than answers right now and let the doctors do their job. A boundary like that, it's much softer. It's recognizing her good intentions, but it's also telling her very clearly to stop and to knock it off. Now, does that mean she's automatically going to honor that boundary? No, of course not. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. But that's where your expectations come into play. You might have to draw the boundary several times and reiterate it, maybe more firmly until she

recognizes them, or she just may never recognize it. And then you've got to pull back even harder. But I think it's worth trying, especially since you want to do this in a way that doesn't antagonize or hurt your mom. It's also worth mentioning, you don't have to share certain information with your mom, like what your diagnosis is or what your doctors are considering. That is your call. That is your right.

You don't owe her that. So either tell her your news with these boundaries in place and understand she might not honor them or just don't tell her at all. right, Gabe, what do you think? Yes, absolutely. And know that adjusting your expectations, drawing those boundaries, that can be super, super hard. And it doesn't solve everything immediately. It doesn't solve everything overnight. Dr. Margolis explained to us that setting boundaries, especially with a parent who's chaotic, let's say, that can be very uncomfortable for both parties. It can invite a lot of resentment. I mean, look, Jordan, when you're dealing with someone who's

treated you a certain way your entire life, and then one day you say, this needs to change, we need to relate to each other differently, I'm going to set this boundary. The other can react very strongly to that, as we know. So just know that if you do decide to draw this line with your mom and then you feel guilty or maybe you feel sad or your mom goes off on you for being cruel or ungrateful or whatever it is, that doesn't mean that you're wrong in setting those boundaries. It just means that your mom doesn't like it. You're not a bad person for protecting yourself. You're not a bad daughter for only wanting to share certain pieces of news with her. But the terms of the relationship that you're resetting right now will probably bring up a lot of new

thoughts, new feelings. So just be prepared for that. And look, there's a lot of a whole other piece of this story, which is the fact that you delayed seeking treatment for so long because you were afraid of being perceived the way that you perceive your mom. I thought that was interesting. We have to talk about that, right? That really struck me too. Her mom is so problematic that she's actually afraid of taking care of herself because she might sound like her mom self-diagnosing with fibromyalgia or whatever over the internet because she's been tired for a few days in a row. Right. Her feelings about mom are so wrapped up in her self-concepts and now they're directly affecting her physical health, which is pretty wild. Dr. Margolis, she zeroed in on this as well, this fear of

identification with mom. That makes total sense to me. I can understand why you wouldn't want to be anything like her, given your experience with your mom your whole life. But in this case, just doing the bare minimum to take care of yourself, that feels like you're becoming doctor make believe as well. As Dr. Margolis pointed out, going to the doctor when you feel sick, that's not inherently a crazy thing to do. But you're clearly judging mom for how she's interacted with the medical system, fairly, in our opinion. And now you're denying your own needs because there's all this judgment, all this fear of being associated with your mom. So Dr. Margulis's view is that there's definitely some work for you to do here around self-judgment, around how you view

yourself, and this fear of identifying with mom. This is the crucial piece. And this probably won't come as a surprise, but the best place to do that would be an individual therapy. And not just so you can work on this stuff with your mom, but because this identification with mom thing, it's probably going to come up again and again in other areas of your life. You might worry that, I don't know, you're becoming a little too much like your mom when you spend money on a nice vacation or you have a normal mood swing because those are behaviors you might associate with a manic personality, for example. And then you might reject parts of yourself that are comparable to what you reject in your mom. And you'll continue to reject those parts if you don't work through the fear about those

identifications. But the reality is you can't be so afraid of relating to your mom that you deny your own pleasure, your own needs, your own priorities, and most importantly, your health. So if you're not already talking to somebody, I would definitely start doing that now. I think that could be huge for you. I agree, Gabe. This is such a rich area for her to explore. She knows that her feelings about her mom are impacting her medical decisions, but I bet she doesn't fully grasp how her ideas about mom are creeping into so many other aspects of her personality. That would be kind of an interesting, possibly a little dark closet, right? Unpacking all that stuff. That could change her whole life. And it's not just about her mental health, how she's feeling emotionally.

We know that that plays a role in inflammation, immune functioning, all that stuff. So this emotional stress, right, doing the psychological work around mom, that's going to be a huge part of taking care of her physical health, too. And I don't want to get too woo-woo, but that stuff is interrelated. I don't even know if that's debatable sort of science anymore. I think we kind of accepted that. All the more reason to find the support you need, starting with therapy for sure, but there are tons of incredible resources out there for children of.

bipolar parents, books, websites, support groups, online forums, stress management tools. We'll link to all of those in the show notes. And I highly recommend checking them out. And as we wrap up here, I just want to say we know this stuff is hard. Growing up with a parent who's mentally ill or chaotic in any way, it's scary, it's traumatic, and it's even harder to navigate these choices because you've never had someone showing you how to do it in a healthy way. Dr. Margolis pointed out that a big part of what you're going through right now is actually

grief. The grief of accepting that you don't have the mom that you need, acknowledging that she's flawed, mourning the fact that you can't rely on her the way you thought you could, that's inherently sad. It is. So it's normal to feel mad and sad and alone and all the things along the way. That's just part of processing. But this is the mom you have. And I really do believe that once you really accept that, when you learn how to take care of yourself the way that she can't, when you know that you can live your life in a way that doesn't make you feel identified with her. in a negative way. There's a ton of growth on the other side and freedom too. So I hope you get to do that. I hope you and your mom find a healthy relationship in the future and we're wishing you the best with all

of this. And good luck with the health thing as well. We didn't even, the poor girl writes in and has a health issue and we're talking about the person she lives. Just think about that, Gabe, like in the scale of this, you got this health issue you're dealing with. And one of the biggest concerns is your mom making you feel like crap in addition to whatever problem that you have medically. Yeah, yeah. So much to deal with at once. So much. Yeah, poor thing.

Hard enough going to the doctor over and over again being sent to the ER because your stomach hurt or whatever. And then you have to worry about what mom is going to say when you text her. Yeah. Like it sucks when you have a supportive family that's not driving you insane at the same time. Right. So, yeah, I just, I want to hug this person. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger show.

We'll be right back. And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. All right. Next up. Hey Jordan and Gabe. We live in a small town and there are tons of kids on our block who play at each other's houses a lot. There's this one kid who lives across the street and is literally sitting on our porch every day at 530 when we get home to play with our kids. Having tons of kids in and out of our home is normally fine, but this kid is different. My kids are six, three, and one. He's nine. He is a pathological liar and manipulative to our six-year-old

daughter. For example, we've watched him convince her to lie when her little brother gets hurt, stuff like that. We've set up baby monitor cameras in the bedrooms to be very aware of what's going on when they play, and it just seems like one toxic thing after another. I've spoken with his parents several times, and it's obvious where he gets it from. The mom has revealed that she has multiple mental issues and problems with her medications. She also homeschools her son. The dad will scream and holler on the lawn to the point where the whole neighborhood can hear him. Someone else in the neighborhood even took out a restraining order against them. We have high standards for our kids, and we have seen some of these toxic traits

start to rub off on our daughter. I feel bad for this kid. I would love to be a safe space for him, but I also don't want my child to be around bad influences or to be manipulated in any way. How would you handle a situation like this? Signed, losing sleep over the company we keep. I have to say this one makes me sad.

Yeah. As a dad of a two-year-old, I totally understand why you're concerned about this. I would be too. I just feel really bad for this kid. It's not his fault that his parents are maniac. But it's not your problem. I feel awful saying this.

I'd be worried that what he's being exposed to at home between the mental health issues and the chaos and the screaming, that he's going to emulate that behavior or project it onto his friends or work it out in some way through them. And it sounds like he already is by manipulating your daughter and lying and covering things up when they happen. Obviously, that is not a good role model or a model for your children to be around at all.

So my advice is to trust your instinct here and gently encourage this kid to find different friends. And I know that sucks. It seems kind of cruel. It actually really pains me to say this because I'm putting myself in the shoes of that poor little kid and it just feels like crap, honestly. But you can't allow your children to be friends with a problematic child just because you feel bad for him. If he were a sweet kid who was behaving well and just happened to be from a dysfunctional home, totally different story. But he's clearly not a good influence. And normally I'd say talk to the parents. You know, he's a kid, see if they can discipline him a little, fix the bad behavior. Every kid goes through that. You know, I used to, like, hit my friends when I was

younger. And it wasn't because we had like an abusive house. I just, to hit my friends. I used to beat him up. Like, I'd get really pissed off and couldn't control my emotions or whatever. And parents would go, we don't hit in our house. And I'd be like, okay, and then I just wouldn't do it. Like that, somehow that was all it took. I don't really understand why because I was a little kid. But these parents don't sound like they're going to be much help. I mean, they are the source of this problem from the sound of it. And I don't mean to sound dramatic, but you do need to protect your kids from people like this before something truly bad happens. You just don't know what this kid might do to them or show them or encourage them to do or tell them to lie about. This is how traumatic stuff happens

sometimes, even in good families. And I'm glad you have a baby monitor set up, but that won't stop a bad thing from happening before you can catch it. And honestly, if you need a baby monitor to feel okay with a kid coming over, that's probably a sign this kid is bad news. But obviously, you don't want to hurt this kid's feelings any more than you have to. So the next time he's waiting on your porch, maybe you can say, hey, I'm really sorry, bud, the kids have a lot to do tonight. We have homework and then dinner, and then we need some family time. Maybe somebody else on the block will want to play. Or if that's too brutal, because I feel, I feel bad even saying that, maybe you can set a time limit half an hour and then he has to go home and then slowly phase the friendship out.

You might have to get a little tough here if he insists. You might have to do this a few times before he gets the message. But man, Gabe, I'm just getting sad saying this because I'm realizing this kid is the one who's paying the consequences and who's missing out. And it's not even his fault. And it just doesn't sound like he's got an easy path ahead with this set of parents either. I know. I know. Me too. Poor kid. I really do feel for him. But like you said, she has to think about her own children. I mean, she's parenting her kids. She's not parenting this hit on top of her kids. I know. I'm just picturing his face when she sends him home and he knows he has to go back to his crazy-ass parents and watch cartoon network alone or avoid his mom and dad until bedtime because

nobody else on the block will touch him with a 10-foot pole. I get it. I totally get it. But there's another important reason for her to intervene here, which is to teach her kids what kind of company they should be keeping. Because when she approves of letting this toxic kid into their house, her kids are also receiving information about what kind of people they should and shouldn't surround themselves with. I mean, they're absorbing the message that it's okay to tolerate a problematic person or to put up with a toxic child or somebody who manipulates them or asks them to lie when somebody gets hurt. I mean, those are very real messages as well. Or at least they're learning that they shouldn't be seeking out better people. And that's a really powerful thing to learn from a young age. You know, that's a good point. This isn't just about this one kid. It's about the values she's teaching her children when it comes to other people in general. Exactly. Like she said, they have high standards for their kids, which is amazing. But they have to embody those standards. especially when it comes to the company that they keep, but so do you think she needs to explain to her children why they can't spend time with this kid anymore? Like, does she need to sort of inform everyone here? That's a good question. That might be a good idea, at least with a six-year-olds,

so that they aren't confused about why mom's taking away their friend all of a sudden. But I don't know if I would go overboard there. I might say something like, how do you feel when you play with Mason across the street? Do you guys have fun? Are you, you know, are you happy you spend time with him after he's gone? Something like that. Maybe get them to tell you how they feel. Hopefully, they'll confirm what you're seeing in this kid, in which case everybody's on the same page and it's going to be more okay. But if your six-year-old can't see the issue, then you might want to say something like, well, look, I love when you have friends over, but, you know, I don't really like the way that you and Mason play together. Remember when he told you to lie to me when your brother got hurt? I didn't like that. That wasn't right.

You guys should be friends with people who don't ask you to lie. You know, something like that. I wouldn't get too deep, but I would definitely help your six-year-old understand why you're making the decision so that they don't feel powerless or maybe also get the message that they did something wrong and that's why Mason doesn't come over anymore or something like that and then encourage them to make other friends that's the most important part you know if you see kids that you really like that they spend time with other people you want to encourage a friendship with kids who are healthy kids who are well-behaved you know people who are additive to their lives then the best thing you can do is encourage them to be friends with those people I like that I still feel bad though since they live on the block where all the kids hang out this kid's definitely going to know

that he's not welcome and he's going to see other kids playing with her kids and then be like hey you know that's going to earn I agree it is very sad But my question is, is that worse than this kid doing something to one of her kids? I mean, definitely not, of course, which is why she obviously has to protect her kids here. So that's what we do. I'm glad you're on top of this because, as we know, the friends you keep, they really do determine the course and the quality of your life in many ways. I would phase this kid out.

Just do it in a way that's as kind as possible to him and as fair as possible to your own kids and know that you're making the right decision as a mom, hard as it may be. If you can, though, this is just me. Maybe keep an eye out for any other ways to help this. poor kid as he gets older. I don't know what you can do, but it's got to be rough to be in that position. Just having one positive, stable, non-crazy person in their life, even if it's just ensuring he's not being abused or something like that, you know, that could make all the difference. This one really breaks my heart, Gabe. I really feel for this poor kid. And, you know, I just

thought of this. He's nine. The kids he plays with are, what, six, three and one or something like that? That's right. So that's a little weird. And to me, I don't know if he just feels safe because those kids can't bully him and maybe his dad does that or something. But also, maybe he's a little emotionally stunted from having weird parents. I'm not a therapist or a psychologist, but it seems to me that if you grow up in an environment that's chaotic and crazy, maybe you're not developing as fast as other people your own age. Yeah, that stood out to me as well. I was wondering what was going on there. I wonder if maybe there's a subtle power dynamic built into that as well. If maybe he can manipulate younger kids, again, we're totally, you know, not psychologists, just reaching.

Yeah, spitballing. But it could also be that the other kids on the block, his age, are old enough to make decisions about whom they want to be friends with. And they're looking at this kid and they're thinking, I don't like the way this kid plays. I don't want to be friends with this guy. Whereas like a six-year-old or a three-year-old is less discerning with the company that they keep. You may be right. Like, maybe this is the family of life. Like, these are the only kids that are still playing with them in the neighborhood. Yeah. Right. Either way, not great news. All right. Next step. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 24 years old and will be attending law school this fall. I graduated. college summa cum laude with a degree in English literature while I balanced difficult classes, work, superactive social life, and long distance running. Throughout the pandemic, though, I've been essentially unemployed other than part-time nanny and tutor work. Because of lockdown, I found my productivity rate suffering and myself becoming much lazier in general, drinking wine on more Tuesdays, wearing athleisure increasingly, stuff like that. This might be the most

overachiever comment I've read all week. Like, oh, at leisure, oh, you poor thing. Gabe, can you even imagine wearing Lulu Lemon five days in a row? Like, oh, the humanity. Gee, I haven't changed. I haven't changed it out of sweatpants from public rack.com slash Jordan for 18 months, okay? Five days in a row? Give me a break, you amateur. I don't have to imagine it because I have been wearing them for longer than five days in a row. I'm also wearing my public rec pants today. Gee, I mean, there's going to be like butt prints worn through these things at some point. Definitely. TMI. But like, this person's going to be fine. I'll just tell you right now already.

I am so incredibly excited to begin my journey of law school. It's my dream. I'm eager to start making a difference in the world and being accepted to my top choice with a scholarship made me feel very proud. But after the pandemic, I also have this nagging feeling that I'm going to fail. It's a kind of early onset imposter syndrome.

Oh, that's interesting, Jordan. This is the second person in two weeks who used that term. I wonder if that's a thing or they just have... The early onset thing? Yeah, the early onset imposter thing. I think it's just that imposter syndrome, since it only exists in your head, always sets. It's always early onset. That's interesting. We can address this later, maybe more

in death. But imposter syndrome, it can occur when you see how qualified other people are and you compare yourself. But you're already comparing yourself to the people you imagine are going to be there. So it's the same phenomenon. You just have less evidence now than you will later. Right. You know, it's anticipatory instead of it in the moment, but it's just a strong. It's equally fake too, but, you know, we'll talk about that. It's a kind of early onset imposter syndrome that says, you've been out of school too long. You've develop some bad habits, you will struggle to hit the ground running and fall behind your classmates. So my question for you is, am I right to be concerned about my ability to thrive in law school, or am I totally overthinking this? Also, can you give advice to an incoming 1L about how to prepare

over the summer for this major shift? Signed an L1, who won with her hair in a bun, trying not to be outrun in the long run. Okay, it's 1L, by the way, but I can't ruin your law. That demolishes your little haiku, but it's well done. I try, man. I totally. forgot that it was one L and not a while. Even though it's in the previous line in the letter. Even though it's literally one line ago. I tried. This just occurred to me, by the way.

When we get imposter syndrome, it's usually we're comparing ourselves to other people, right? So our quote unquote evidence is, wow, other people are so great, look how smart they are in class. Or look at how qualified they are. They got 10 years ahead of me, whatever. But the evidence that this person is using right now to justify the imposter syndrome is using the sort of internal stuff, right? Like, I'm unprepared.

I've developed bad habits. So either you're using other people as evidence or you're using yourself, but either way, it's in your head. And either way, it's a comparison. It's just that you're, the kickoff might come from a different place. Right. Anyway, congratulations on getting into law school and on a scholarship. Super impressive.

I definitely did not get a scholarship to law school of any kind. I hear your concern. I think a lot of people can relate to what you're describing. You basically have Pan-D brain, right? Pandemic brain. We all do, to some degree. after the year plus that we've had. And honestly, you sound like a super smart person, ambitious, capable, passionate, dedicated.

If you weren't, you wouldn't have thrived in college and landed this scholarship and made your dream come true here. All those qualities are still there. Those don't evaporate. They just haven't been flexed in a couple of years, which is fine, at normal. It makes sense you're dealing with some imposter syndrome now. I actually don't think that's an entirely bad thing if you use it in the right way. So are you right to be concerned about your ability to thrive in law school?

Okay, sure, but not because you don't have the goods. You should be concerned because everyone going into law school should be concerned about how they perform. In your case, you haven't been a student for a couple of years. You're still shaking off the pandy, maybe taking a little extra time to ease back into things as a good idea. I get that. Although it would apply to almost everyone in your class. You're not alone there. But that doesn't mean that you can't. What's happening right now, you're focused more on the idea that you'll fail than on what you have to do to make sure you succeed. At least it sounds like it. You're psyching yourself out because you're not giving yourself something more productive to focus on. So my advice for you is this. Rather than fixate on

the imposter syndrome and all the reasons why you're going to fall behind, create a plan for how you're going to fill those gaps. Your best friends here are going to be goals, systems, habits. If you know what you want to achieve, if you put processes in place to actually get them done and, you know, this isn't, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone of people like me. This is planning. If you create the routines and the muscle memory that make it easier to do them, it's not going to matter if you feel like you can thrive in law school. You will just thrive in law school.

You'll be studying. You'll be participating in class. You'll be socializing. You're going to be working out, doing your runs, whatever it is. The feelings, the self-confidence, that stuff will follow. Everyone's a fish out of water the first day. It's the first day of school all over again, and it's law school. so everyone's in there like, oh my gosh, it's do or die.

Like the old saying goes, we don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training. And I think that quote originally came from a Greek poet. Then it became like a Special Forces Navy SEAL thing, but it applies to first year law students all the same. Basically, you need to create a system that you can fall back on even when you're rusty. And yeah, that'll take a little extra work on your part. It is totally doable.

The habits are malleable. You can always write new ones. they're like software. And since you were such a high performer before, I think you're going to be surprised by how quickly these old habits and routines will kick in. It'll feel like coming home, rather than trying to be a totally new person. For me, one of the systems was just getting into a study group right away. A lot of people said, oh my gosh, you're a nerd. It's week number one or two or whatever it was. But going with all the gunners, they kind of kept me in line because they're like, okay, today we're going to study and meet on chapter one. And I'm like, crap, I actually have to do the

work. I mean, I just sort of jumped in with both feet into the deep end. And, and, And that helped me. That's great advice. I agree completely. And if you can do all of that, you'll also be doing something else, which is proving to yourself that you are the kind of person who can thrive in law school. And that's how you really resolve the imposter syndrome. You can walk into your first day law school thinking, you know, my memorization isn't

as good as it used to be, and I'm not used to concentrating for this long, and I'm a little awkward with new people. But that's okay. That's why I have these hours blocked out on my calendar to read, to make flashcards. That's why I have this system for taking notes so I can stay engaged in class. That's why I'm forming the study group so I can make some new friends. For every area where you feel like an imposter, you can create a task or a system or a habit associated with it.

And in that way, the imposter syndrome is actually here to help you. Like Jordan said, if you use it the right way. And we actually have a ton of articles and episodes that talk about exactly that. So we're going to link to all of those in the show notes. I highly recommend checking them out. As for advice on how to prepare over the summer for your first year of law school, I know this is cliche, but whatever. Stop worrying so much.

everyone worries everyone's in the same boat everyone got selected for law school for a good reason i was one of those guys who was like oh my god i came in with lower grades than they had on the website and i'm i don't belong here like but really i don't belong here everyone else's grades are better and then i realize none of that crap really matters they obviously pick people they think are qualified and are going to be interesting for the class so i'm not just telling you to chills for your own stress management i'm telling you this because your enemy in law school is going to be burnout just like it is on wall street or in any sort of super high-performer job environment, corporate environment. If you go into law school, your one-year especially, if you go in fresh, you get rock in those first few weeks, you'll be good to go.

If you stress out all summer and eat freaking chips and worry about everything, it's going to be hard for you to keep up the intensity when you need it most, which is during final exams. For me, finals were 100% of my grade in every class, almost without exception. Maybe there was like a 5% for people who participated a lot, just in case you bomb. the final. They would still sort of try and get you to pass maybe. But as you know, your 1L, your first year grades, for those of you don't know, 1L's first year, those are the most important grades of your law school career because they're standardized. So that is what every employer is looking at. They're not looking at your electives and all the other stuff later. So as hard

as it might be, relax, get a run in, enjoy the summer as much as possible, and then go into the first couple of weeks of the semester, refreshed and ready to kick some academic ass. Because if you do that, you're going to be great. Imposter syndrome tends to visit smart people, people who are humble, people who know what they don't know. So I say, invite it in, find out what it's trying to tell you, and know that law school probably won't be as daunting as it feels right now. It is a lot harder to go from zero to 60 than it is to go from 60 to 100. After a few weeks, you'll be amazed by how quickly your old habits come back, how much you enjoy performing at a high level, just make sure that you're giving yourself every possible advantage and conserve your energy.

One of the main things that helped me, and I realized this isn't advice, I was like, fuck being a lawyer. I'm never going to do that. And if I do, it's only going to be temporary. And also I don't care about working at some fancy-ass law firm, because I'm just trying to figure it out. So I went in being like, huh, I can either like say fuck it and not do anything, but that limits my options. What if I just work really hard? And then I was like, I probably have to work really hard because finals are 100% of your grade. So I really don't get a second chance of this. So I was like, cool, I'm just going to like bust ass and do it and outstudy everyone. And then it was like, oh, I'm going to get a high-paid job

because they're offering me these really high-paid jobs and I have debt. So, like, going and not giving a fuck is like the secret weapon, but it's impossible if you've worked your ass off for like 12 years to get into law school. You're not going to be able to fake your way to not giving a shit, you know?

So keep that in mind, too. This is the Jordan Harpenter show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good problems? and or services. You can always visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals for all the details on everybody

that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right, next up. Hey guys. Due to a downturn in business, my employer laid off a bunch of employees, including me. I recently found out that my layoff was effective one day before my last retirement accrual through the company's employee stock ownership plan. I read the last day of plan year requirement and even asked the third-party administrator about this, and they said that there's nothing I can do. I've really grown a lot since the layoff, and I'm doing well financially, and with my wife and son.

We have a great life. I thought I was done processing the layoff until this one last gotcha became known to me. So do I practice acceptance and move on, or do I have other recourse here? Signed, stock blocked. This is so infuriating. Talk about it, Dick move, Gabe.

Just another example of how companies almost always do just what's right for them and easiest for them, even if it means giving a good employee the shaft. I'm really sorry this happened to you, man. I'm thrilled to hear that you've been thriving since the layoff, but I get why this sticks in your craw. It would stick in mind, too. So to get an expert opinion here, we spoke with Jeremy Golon, a great employment attorney based in Los Angeles, friend of the show.

I know he's a good lawyer because he sued me once, and that's actually how we became friends. True story. I don't think that normally happens. I don't think people who get sued by attorneys usually befriend the opposing counsel. but I'm a weirdo, and he did a good job. Jeremy's take was basically this. If you can prove that your termination was intended to avoid paying a wage or benefit, in this case your retirement accrual, you potentially have a wrongful termination case. Jeremy also said this could be considered a breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. And judges tend to take that stuff seriously,

especially if it's real money, like you said. So the question is, do you go after your former employer? Well, as with any lawsuit, you'll have to weigh the benefits and the costs. The upside is you go after them, maybe you recover some or all of the stock you were promised. I'm not sure how much money that actually is or what the money represents to you, but I'm guessing it's significant enough to be pissed off. So I get it. The downside is you hire an attorney, possibly or probably pay out of pocket, unless you get them working on a contingency, which is, you know, they sue and then they take a portion of the collections, only if you win. You spend months or even years battling with the fine folks at Dushbags Incorporated and you possibly lose the case. Then you'll have spent a ton of time

in money and emotional energy. You won't have anything to show for it. In fact, it might even make you angrier. Now, a lot of this has to do with how you think about this money. How you manage stress, whether it's worth it to you to write this wrong on a moral level. Those are personal questions, and everybody's different. But regardless, I would book a call with an employment attorney or two in your state. Just see what they say. Any attorney worth their salt will tell you if they think you have a good enough case to proceed. And you know, this just occurred to me, Gabriel, but if they laid off a lot of people, it depends on when those people were hired. And if they got screwed out of their accrual, too, you might have a class action. And that's a juicier, a nice, juicy case for a contingency

lawyer, when there's not one plaintiff that might get like 50 grand or 100 grand, but there's like 40. Now you're talking real money. Right, because he did mention that they laid off a bunch of people at the same time, including him, right? Right. How does he find, I don't know how he finds out whether they were given the same treatment. But if he knows them, he could just reach out and ask, right? I think also class action lawsuits, you know, you ever get those things where it's like, did you buy an Apple phone? We heard that you, we have, see your name in Apple? I think there's discovery where they can find out when they file, like, who all got terminated here? You know, it's part of the case. Good point. The company can't just say, oh, good, they don't know that they all

got screwed for the same reason. I don't think they can easily hide that. I think a law firm can get that. Honestly, though, in cases like this, especially if it's not going to be a class action thing where you're the plaintiff of record. I just believe in practicing acceptance and moving on. You're financially stable. You've grown a lot since you were laid off. I've countersued before. I've sued people before. I almost always just go like, what the hell was that? You know, like it would have been better just to move on. Sometimes you need to get a full release closure. You're done though. You like you have the benefit if they're not messing with you anymore, right? In a messed up way, it sounds like your former employer. Maybe did you a solid here, even though they robbed you on the way out. Haven't been

through a couple lawsuits myself. Like I said, they're incredibly unpleasant. a huge waste of time and money, if you can take all of that energy and put it into your career or your kid or your family or learning a new skill or just having a stress-free time hanging out with your family without checking your phone every 20 minutes to see if your lawyer sent over some more tedious deposition notes, that's the smart choice in my book. So unless your company stiffed you for some obscene amount of money and there's other people involved or whatever, the number's just so astronomical that it justifies the headache of a lawsuit, Then you got to keep in mind that if it is that much money,

your company might fight your tooth and nail. The headache's going to be proportionally huge. You're going to end up settling out of court, most likely anyways. This is my view. Lawsuits are seldom worth it, unless there's real money on the line, and they can pay it. You're usually better off taking the L and learning the lesson,

which in this case is that you cannot completely rely on a company to honor their commitment to take care of you. From now on, pick your employers carefully, not that you didn't before, and just make sure you're taking care of yourself. I am sorry this happened, man. but you're in a really good position. Moving on, almost always better than regret. That said, Gabe, this sounds like a public company with the stock. They didn't say that. It could be

privately held, blah, blah, blah. If this is a publicly traded company and there's a lot of layoffs, see if you can get a class action, because now we're talking millions of dollars. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan, you talk a lot about social capital, but what about inherited social capital? My dad, who was a piano tuner slash technician and an incredibly giving and well-liked man, he passed away in a car accident at the start of the pandemic. When he died, I received notes, flowers, tribute news articles, and messages from people telling me about all the secret good deeds he had done for them, composing music for people's funerals, visiting people in the hospital, taking packages into a bigger town so people could avoid the cost of a UPS pickup,

forgiving bills for people who couldn't pay him, the list goes on and on. Over 2,000 people reached out to us in the first week. The mayor of our town even posthumously named him the 2020 citizen, of the year. I know that today I could call up dozens of his contacts and ask for a favor in his name, and I would get it. I have no intention of abusing that ability, but I do know that when people learn who my father is, I get treated differently. I strive to be like my father, and I'm really proud to be called his son, but it's a lot to live up to. Is there a way to bring this up that doesn't come across like a petulant douche being like, do you have any idea who my father is? I don't want to abuse the connections he built, but I feel like nurturing those relationships is good for both me and for the

people who knew him, especially since most of them didn't get to properly grieve for him because of COVID. How do I responsibly enjoy this inherited social capital? Signed, seeking valuable practicals for my dad's social capital without being a damnable privileged animal. These are just getting longer. I think one of the reasons the show is getting longer is because the names you make up are now 27 words long. All right. What a story. First of all, I'm so sorry that you lost your dad this past year. He sounds like an truly exceptional person. I'm sure it was a huge loss for you and your your family and for all the people that knew him. I'm so fascinated by this guy, Gabe, this low-key piano tuner who touched thousands of people's lives. It's like a movie script somehow. Tom Hanks would

play him in the movie for sure. Tom Hanks would definitely play him, yeah, or would be like the mayor of the town. If you need any proof that just being kind and generous in small ways creates a ton of value in goodwill, this is it. This guy is writing in because he's riding a massive wave that his father created just by going the extra mile for everyone. Talk about legacy. This is a lot. This is real legacy. This is the best kind of legacy. In some ways, it's actually better than money or fame or any of that stuff, because it's actually the lifeblood of all of those other things. So you're asking an interesting question, and the fact that you're being so thoughtful about this privilege, and it is a privilege, that says a lot about you. You don't want to drop your dad's name the second you meet someone and go full

Karen here, but you also don't want to miss out on the amazing doors that he is open for you. So my advice is this. Enjoy your dad's social capital. Just be self-aware and respectful. when you do and take time to consciously appreciate it along the way. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your dad's great life as long as you're doing so in a way that honors him and is fair to other people. I wouldn't bandy the name about everywhere as you go. You don't need to drop your shirts off of the dry cleaners and be like, I'm Frank's son, okay? Now I want these starch by Friday or I'm taking my business elsewhere. But when it's appropriate, when it's organic, I say go for it. You'll know when you're being too much. You'll feel it in your gut. You can check that impulse.

But if you run into somebody who knew your dad or you want to meet somebody who knew him, there's nothing wrong with saying, oh, by the way, I'm Ben, I'm Frank's son. He talked a lot about you, or thank you for the note you sent when my father passed away. That just eases everyone a little faster into the friendship. I mean, why not? I totally agree. This is all part of the legacy as dad left him. My only caveat is that I wouldn't just rest on that social capital. I would keep building on it. So I would keep investing in those friendships and new ones that you create on your own along the way. Do it with the same generosity that your dad did. Sounds like he was a great example. Make those relationships your

own. I would find ways to help other people, create your own opportunities, figure out how to embody your dad's spirit and your own life. And of course, keep investing in yourself. I mean, as a friend, as a partner, as a professional, so you're not just resting on your dad's laurels and just coasting for the rest of your life. I don't think you would do that, but I could imagine that would be tempting when you have a father as big as this one, who looms as large as this in your life. That's the best way, really, to honor what your dad did. And it'll also be really cool to stay connected to him in that way now that he's gone. If you approach people the way he did, you'll find him wherever you go. I know that's kind of cheesy, but it's true. It's like whenever you run into

somebody you knew him or you treat someone the way he would have treated them, you'll feel like he's still a presence in your life. And then when you have children, they'll grow up with that same approach true. And I think that's wonderful. Gabe, I just love this email. It's incredible to me that somebody tuning people's pianos can find all these ways to touch their lives to the point where he's getting written up in the newspaper and the friggin' mayor is naming him citizen of the year. It just shows how effective this guy's dad was at relationship building. How often does somebody need their piano tune, right? So it's not like this is a guy seeing people all the time.

This is just through the course of business or this rarely needed business. But he still manages to create these very strong connections because the man just really had the magic touch. Right. He's just a kind dude who cared about people wherever he went. And then you see the impact that somebody like that leaves behind. It's incredible. People write me all the time saying, well, I know I need to build relationships, but I don't have time.

I don't have a lot of money. I don't know anybody to introduce. And I'm always like, you don't need that stuff. Just be thoughtful. Start where you are. Look around. Be of service wherever you go. The money, the connections, those will follow.

That's what six-minute networking is, right? The whole course is based on that. Being generous with your time, your talent, your attention, that is literally free. Look at this guy's dad. Look what a gift he gave to his son. That is how I want to be. Just an amazing case study in the best kind of relationship building.

So I'm going to take that with me into my week. I hope you guys do to six-minute networking, by the way that I just mentioned, is at Jordanharbinger.com slash course. It's free. Go check it out if you haven't yet. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thanks for that. I love most statistically half of you. Make sure to check out Daniel Conneman, epic, epic from this week, and Dacker Keltner. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com, transcripts in the show notes, videos on our YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter on Twitter. You can also hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jay Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. And I was probably never even a good lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. After the show, we've got a preview trailer of our interview with Mike Rowe, host of Discovery's Dirty Jobs and Returning the Favor on

Why the advice Follow Your Passion is complete BS. Check out episode 264 right here on the Jordan Harbinger show. Follow your passion as a bromide is precisely what 98% of the people do who audition for American Idol. And they're lined up. Thousands of people who have been told, if you believe something deeply enough and if you want something bad enough, and if you truly embrace the essence of persistence,

and your passion, if you let your passion, lead you. Stick with it. Well, following your passion is terrific advice if the passion is taking you to a place where opportunity and your own set of skills will be able to coexist. Passion is something that all of the dirty jobbers that I met possessed in spades. They just weren't doing anything that looked aspirational. So it was confusing. If a guy in a plaid shirt, sip in a cappuccino, that doesn't make sense. Well, guess what? Neither does a septic tank cleaner worth a million dollars. That guy had a million dollar business?

I actually counted them up once. I could be wrong by a couple, but I put over 40 people that we featured on dirty jobs as multi-millionaires. Passion isn't the enemy. It's just not the thing you want pulling the train.

But look, I don't say, don't follow your passion. I say, never follow your passion, but always bring it with you. Mike Roe, including a behind-the-scenes look at some of his shows, and why we should not view a blue-collar career as some sort of cautionary tale, check out episode 264 right here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Hey, movie lovers, who needs a theater when you have Pluto TV?

Grab your popcorn and your streaming device because free movies are here. Pluto TV is your home for movies. Great movies are playing any time in over 20 exclusive movie channels of action, horror, rom-coms, and more. Watch hits like Saving Private Ryan, Pretty and Pink, and Charlie's Angels, all for free. No signups, no fees, no contracts, ever. Download the free Pluto TV app on any device. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

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