The Jordan Harbinger Show - 563: Bobby Hall (aka Logic) | This Bright Future

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

Bobby Hall (aka Logic) (@Logic301) is a Grammy-nominated, platinum-selling recording artist, actor, streamer, film producer, and author of NYT best-seller Supermarket and his latest, This Bright Future: A Memoir. What We Discuss with Bobby Hall (aka Logic): Why Logic's good memories of childhood make him sad. The challenges of living with cervical dystonia. Why Logic was suicidal when his song 1-800-273-8255 became a big hit (and what stopped him from going through with it). How Logic got his career started like so many of us: in a '90s rap battle chat room. Why Logic found the story about Helen Keller's education to be particularly inspiring. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/563 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Like, I can't believe it. Like, the shit is crazy. Like, I'm, like, a rich guy. And I don't say that to sound. This is coming from the guy from food stamps and welfare and nothing and powdered milk with roaches in my cereal and starving. Like, I'm saying, like, I can't believe it. I'm proud of myself, you know what I mean? And I'm proud of myself that I did it for the right way, like the right reasons, a positive message.

love and positivity, be yourself. You know, the message of equality for every man, woman, and child, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, and sexual orientation. These are things that I believe. These are messages that I've preached. And I was also made fun of for doing and saying these things, especially in hip-hop. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game. Astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies, psychologists, even the occasional rocket scientist, extreme athlete, or former jihadi. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice you can use to build a deeper

understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, we've now got episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topic to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start to get started or to help somebody else get started with us, which of course we always appreciate. Today, Bobby Hall, who goes by the moniker Logic, learned to escape his world by creating a new one in the form of music and rap, at one time

being one of the most visible and most listened to rappers in the world. His upbringing was just bonkers. He grew up around drugs, mental illness, crime. His life was so bad at some points. He met kids at the skate park who were wealthy, and he used to literally imagine being a dog at their house because he thought that life would be better than his. Just imagine that. Imagine wishing you were somebody else's dog. Now that I think about it, probably not so bad, but not a great place for a kid to be. Not something kids should be thinking about. He in fact told me that finding love in people was fickle and unpredictable, but music would never leave me, so I chose music. That's something that he'd mentioned, and I just thought that was so heartbreaking, but also

resulted in a great artist. Today we're going to hear some wild stories of chaos, abuse, hustle, talent and redemption. So let's get after it. And if you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it's because of my network, and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. That's our six-minute networking course. By the way, most of the guests on the show, they subscribe and contribute to that course. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Now here we go with Bobby Hall. So your childhood was, I mean, it was wild to say the least, but not necessarily always in a good way. You said it's actually the good memories of my childhood that make me sad.

Why is that? That seems obviously that's counterintuitive. Usually the good memories of someone's childhood make them happy, right? Yeah, it's because I have so few of them. Like it's like literally just a couple. It's like Easter egg hunting with my mom once and skateboarding at the skate park was nice. But yeah, for the most part, dude, it's just like it was a bunch of BS. It was really difficult kind of growing up and knowing that the stuff that I

remember and the only really good memories that I have are things that other people, most people, would just take for granted because they have so many good memories, which is cool. The memories that I have from childhood that are good are so few and far between and so small that they're the ones that other kids would just throw away. You mentioned the Easter egg hunt, right? Staying in an apartment with no electricity and no furniture and making shadow puppets, which like, as a current parent, I'm imagining that you have the same thoughts as I do where you're like, wait, wait, that's Red Flag City, right? But when a kid's like, oh, it was so fun, We had no furniture, no electricity.

You're like, as a kid, you're like, oh, cool. But as an adult, you're like, whoa, whoa, tell me again. Where are you sleeping where you don't have a bed? Where are you sleeping where there's no food? That's, like, not the environment you want to raise a kid in. And I assume as a parent now, you're like, whoa. Actually, how's this? You as a parent now must every day have a feeling where you're like, you know,

when we did this, when I was growing up, we did it this other way. And 2020 hindsight, that was a little fucked up that they did that way. Yeah, totally. It's definitely a weird thing to like think of my childhood. Like I had a great childhood because I made it good. You know what I mean? Like I played with my friends and I played video games and I ran around and I ran through the woods and played basketball and like all these things. It's like I couldn't play basketball on a team because we were two poor to afford jerseys and shit, you know?

But yeah, it is definitely weird. I remember talking to my wife and I was like, okay, so if he does something like really, really bad, like really bad, like do we spank him? She was like, no. And I just like, I was like, really? Like, but this was like years ago. Yeah, sure. Before we even had a kid and I was just like, I don't know. I feel like, da-da-da.

I was like, well, if he calls you a bitch, you might get a little smack. Yeah, I mean, and she's like, one, he's literally going to do that like once when he's 19 and we're never going to have to deal with it again. And it's a whole sit-down conversation too. Like, what do you mean? Are we going to lock him in a closet for three hours? Like, no, we're not going to do any of that shit. Yeah, no, no, for sure. Yeah.

I'm like, half kidding. Right. Obviously, not in this sense of abuse, but I just came up where it's like if you do something wrong, you get a little smack on your wrist or something like that. But now, as a parent, I realize you don't need any physical, I mean, except for possibly restraining, you know. Well, yeah. If they're like in their little hitting phase and they don't know how to express themselves and things like that. I got to wonder though, when did you first realize that you didn't have a normal childhood, right? Because when you're young and you're eating donuts for dinner and like your mom's yelling at people on the phone and cursing sometimes at you and like,

It's every day, there's gotta be a time, like when you're that age, you're like, this is what families are like. There's gotta be an age where you're like, wait, you know what, this is so weird. My family is weird as hell, because I went to my friend's house or whatever the contrast was and you're like,

so your dad got mad at your mom and they like sat down and talked about it and also you didn't have donuts for dinner? Like what the hell? Planet am I on? Yeah, that's definitely when you go to your friend's house. So it's like, you know, when you're at the skate park, especially, there's just all walks of life

and, you know, people who have money, people who don't. It doesn't really matter. You're just skating. And then you make a friend and you go spend the night at his house and his house is a mansion in Potomac, Maryland. And you're like, holy shit. And it's not even about the wealth factor. It's just a lot of people with money tend to be happier. And it's not because of the money. It's because I think the money has given them comfort. And when you're comfortable, you can focus on other shit. So when you're not stressed out all the time, you know what I mean? And every penny matters, which it did for me, my whole life. So I understood of that, but I just kind of see these people who's like, stable job, good mom also has a job

or stay at home or whatever. And it's just like, they have champagne problems. There's still problems. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, man, I got in a little accident, a little fender bender or this or that or blah, blah, blah. But it's not like, oh, this bitch stole my crack rock. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's the shit I was doing with it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, some of the stories about your mom, you got to find it strange to tell the stories, right? Because sometimes when you write this down, I wonder if you thought, are people going to believe this? because there has to be a point at which you're writing this down,

and you go, people are going to think I'm exaggerating this, right? I come from this crazy place, and I've built a successful career for myself. People, they're going to look at this and be like, eh, this is like for a fact, he's writing this down, it's embellished.

You can ask my brothers and sisters. I believe you. I'm just saying, did you think that people wouldn't believe you? Because it is crazy. I said that even in the book. I was like, you know, when I look back and discuss my come-up

in my childhood, I always feel like I'm lying. Like there's a part of me that's embellishing or this or that or whatever the case may be. And then, you know, the book opens up with my mother's screaming on the phone and going crazy. It's because I'm listening back to a 16-year-old recording while I was recording music. I stopped it. You can hear my mom record, like going crazy in the background. And the funniest part is like, it's in the audiobook and it's gnarly. And that just gives me that feeling

of like, oh, right, it's worse than I thought it was. You know what I mean? So people could, for sure, It's like, yeah, my dad smoked crack. My brother sold my dad crack. They were gangsters ran around, taught me to cook crack. You know what I mean? Brothers on drugs. Mom was a prostitute. She was raped.

Had miscarriages. Beat me for no reason. Almost choked me to death one time. Yeah. I mean, it's just the crazy, you know, I've been kidnapped, held hostage. Like, bro, like my mom got stabbed once. Like, it's just like, what? It's like, this cannot be real.

And this is like all before you even get to like the music. Because it's like three parts. right and so two of those parts are over 200 pages like at first it wasn't even going to be that it was just going to be like yeah i'm logic a rap but i didn't really give a shit about that and i just started talking about my life man you know i and i feel like fans of mine like real fans know all that shit anyway like about my music now they might not know certain things like what i was going through or what i was experiencing or the height of my career and what was going on in the background so i explain that but for me i was just like this needs to be personal i don't really think anybody gives a shit

about my rapping technique at 3 a.m. in a studio. So I was just like, let me just tell my story. Yeah, that's interesting because there probably actually are tons of people that wanted to learn that, but I think, and in fact, I kind of expected some of that from your book. And there is some of that in there. But it was more interesting than I thought it would be to get an autobiography of somebody that you, when the book starts out with that audio sample of your mom having a meltdown, I was like, oh, man, that's kind of a rough moment. And then you realize that that moment actually stretches out through your whole, your whole, whole early childhood, or your whole life actually, you know, until you became an adult and moved out

and made you who you are. So that becomes interesting because a lot of people who go through that kind of thing, and you mention this at the end of the book, you say that your parents or whatever broke your brothers and sisters, but they didn't break you. And the scoreboard says that you're really successful person. And you'll go over some of your accolades in the show close if people don't know in the intro, but like, you like definitely are not a fuck up, right? Like 100% you have succeeded in life. That's very sweet. I'd like to think so.

Yeah, there was no role model. There was nobody to really look up to. So every time I saw my dad smoke crack or saw a man hit my mom or, you know, my sisters came back from, you know, being raped or sexually assaulted or it's like, oh, so you don't beat a woman. You don't take advantage of a woman. You don't smoke crack. You don't smoke PCP.

Oh, it was just something that in me that was just like, right. I'm not going to do that. Well, you had common sense of a high, you know what it is? It's probably, it's got to be some sort of social intelligence because a lot of people would go, well, this is what adults do.

They do this horrible stuff and it's just a part of life. And you were like, oh, avoid that. Because that makes you sleep outside in a dumpster. That makes you go violent against your family members and then you get arrested.

Like you had an opposite reaction from that. And, you know, your mom yelling at you and saying things like, you deserve to feel pain. You don't know what pain is. I hope you feel pain. I wonder in the moment, was it hard to hear things like that from your mom or were you kind of like, what the hell, mom, I'm just trying to watch cartoons.

Like, how sort of did you handle that in the moment? There's definitely a bit of both because it's just like, then you get used to it. And she's also saying these things and like as I get older and begin to question her faith or her way of life or whatever because I'm a child and I just want to know things and ask questions, that's when those things start to happen. So like even the first time I heard bipolar or mental problems or all this other shit of her screaming on the phone, that doesn't resonate it for. four, five, and then six, and then seven, you start to be like, bipolar, what the hell is

at? We're in therapist's office, and she's screaming and running out. So this is about the time where I'm, like, asking these questions, and she's like, shut the fuck up! And she's like, oh, my God. And I'm like, oh, my God. And then that's when she's like, you deserve pain, you deserve, you know, you deserve to feel what it feels like.

You don't know what I've been through. I was sodomized and, you know, had a red-hot knife pressed up against my throat by two men at the same time. And I'm like, eight. And I'm like, what the hell is sodomyized? You're like Googling in this. Yeah, but my mother was a sick person. Yeah, of course.

That's the biggest thing I discuss in the book is like, yeah, there was times in my life where I was totally angry with her and upset. And the same with my father. But everything, no matter how honest it is. And sometimes the truth just hurts. And sometimes the truth is like, hell, it's just gnarly. But the fact of the matter is, I've forgiven them. I understand that they are mentally ill people.

I get that. I don't hold it against them. I wish they weren't that. And I think there were times in my life when I could see. the kind of pure little kid inside of them. Like there were times when I could see that and it was a really beautiful thing. But it's like, I don't say anything,

any of this like with disdain. It's just what happens, you know, or what happened? What happened to me? My mom tried to kill me. She was the definition of a hypocrite, you know, if I stubbed my toe and was like, Jesus, she'd be like,

don't take the Lord's name in vain. God damn it, you motherfucker. Like that's, you know. And so I just kind of accepted it and I was like, all right, hopefully I don't do that when I'm older. Yeah, I mean, she was just like reading the book when you realize like her religious fanaticism

was just probably her trying to gain 1% control over anything in her life when she had no control over anything else in her life. Yeah, for sure. It's a crazy thing. And that's why it's like, when I do speak on religion in the book, I'm like, dude, like I'm not personally religious.

I believe in something, you know? And like I said, I don't think it's Skydad. I don't think it's some white dude with a beer on a cloud. But I also can't disprove it at the same time. You know what I mean? But I don't hate on anybody's faith, anybody's religion.

I don't think it's weird. Nothing like that. But my mother, when I discussed, it's like, dude, I mean, you read. Like there's, like, we were Christian forever and we're going to like the black church, the white church, the Spanish church, the Pentecostal homosexuals are going to hell church. Like all this stuff that a kid is like, what is a homosexual? And then you became a Catholic until she got pissed off at somebody. And then you're like, we're not Catholics anymore.

All right, whatever. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. We were Catholic for like three weeks, dude. It's just the craziest thing. So I had to learn about even just like a quality. It's just my mom was so weird.

And mind you, she was also like systemically racist. I don't mind fucking saying it, but I don't want to blast it on your podcast. But she'd call me the N-word with a hard R. She'd call all my brothers and sisters the N-word with a hard R. She'd call any black person that she could that. But then at the same time, she'd be chilling and hanging out with black folks like the next weekend until she dropped something like that. I mean, it's the reason she got stabbed in the park when I was 17, 16 years old. Like, it's crazy.

So I had to learn, like, there was levels of self-hatred that she was like, embanky. betting into my mind, but I was like, no, black is beautiful. What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. Like, gay people are just people like that just happen to like the same set. Like, who gives a shit? You know what I mean? But for her, everything was, yeah, it was not.

And for people who are listening to us, which is the majority of the audience, you're mixed. So it's like she would use the N word with the hard R. And it's like, you know that my dad is black and that your son and all of your other kids are like mixed. So it's just, but she just couldn't, this is like the, she just wanted to get a rise out of you Or she was, who knows? I mean, who knows what it's going on? No, what it is is I say she went for whatever would cut deep.

So it's like if you're fat, she calls you fat. If you're ugly, she calls you ugly. If your teeth are messed up, she'll just go in on you about that. But then, you know, she'll also be like, turn the other cheek, Robert. Like on these other moments. And then she's like going off on the pastor at the church. Like, no. Like, it's just crazy, dude.

But that's another thing, you know, when I've said that in hip hop that my mother is use racism as a tool of anger and a weapon against me, so many people are like, yo, that don't even make sense. And it's like, I know it doesn't. Yeah. I never tried to make sense of it. I just, I just did my best to have empathy for a woman who had serious mental illness problems and realized you're right. It doesn't make sense. And it doesn't make sense that any child in the world should have to experience or go through that. But I did. I'd like to think I'd learn from it. And I hope I'm a better father than my parents. You know what I mean? So luckily, you'd have to try really hard to be worse.

So there's that, right? The bar is so low, it's like you're just skipping over it without any effort at all. That's funny, man. And it's funny, too, because it's like, I'm not, like, even talking to you about this right now is very therapeutic. Because, like, I'm not trying to shit on these people, man. Right. My number one thing, and I think I make that very clear in the book. You do, yeah.

It's like, I'm not trying to hurt anybody. But you could read this and be like, how could you say this about your mother? How could you say this about your father? It's clear that you're telling it from, like, this is a retelling that is so. crazy. I hope you get some entertainment from it. And it's like your dad, just the stories your dad tells, for example, you're just like, bro, what? What are you talking about? You were not Smokey Robinson's backup singer, like, stop. It's pretty funny, man. But it's like, it's also not funny. Right. Yeah. So it's like, I take, it's like Chandler for friends. It's like, I kind of, this book

is very funny. It is. It is funny. But I take things that are painful like, dude, I remember when I was basically the biggest rapper in the world. And I had the song, 1,800 out. And, you know, It's about suicide prevention and all this other stuff. There's a part in the book where I'm like, I was dealing and talking about suicide so much. I was malnourished. I was unhealthy. I was mentally going through the craziest time of my life. I was in the middle of a divorce.

TMZ's following me around everywhere. He can be like, oh, these are, but no, like, dude, I wanted to kill myself, like 100% like for sure. Like, I was thinking about it. And then I was like, oh, wait a second. I can't kill myself because then it'll be the suicide 1,800 guy killed himself. And then I'll just be a meme on the internet. I was like, I have to stay alive. That's the only reason I can't die right now is because I'll be a caricature that people laugh at.

Yeah. Mind you, that's all like sick and dark and fucked up and all this other shit. But it's like, I try to find the comedy in it. And for me, it ended up being like a funny page. Like suicide isn't funny, dude. Well, of course. Yeah. It isn't funny.

But like, so what? We got to make fun of it. You know, we got to, I don't know. I just think sometimes people are too sensitive, even if you're the one dealing with it. And you're like saying it. Right. But it's just like that's what I've done my whole life. I've tried to turn everything that I've gone through into a source of entertainment while also

allowing that to have some therapeutic measure over me while doing so, whether it's through music, whether it's through writing, it's all cathartic, you know what I mean? No, you're totally right. Look, comedians, you've seen interviews with comedians, how like half of them anyway or at least like they're so miserable and the jokes all come from this like sort of dark, depressed place, not with all of them, obviously, but a lot of it. And they're like comedy and making fun of other people, like mercilessly. at these roasts is what gets them through all these dark times, and they're watching all this

really dark, horrible stuff that you're, like, not supposed to make fun of. And they're like, oh, I love that we can sit around and commiserate like this. And this is, like their therapy. So it makes sense. And look, the book, like you said, it's really great, especially in audio format. You create for audio, which is great. So the audiobook is probably even better or at least more entertaining than it would be on paper. It's crazy. I'm doing all these voices and shit. Yeah, you do the voices and you're imitating your mom. Obviously, no one else can do that, right? And when you're reading it yourself, you're just reading it, at least in my head, I read paper

in my own voice, so it sort of sucks because all the voices are my own, right? So your narration is funny. It's hard hitting. I was going to ask if it was cathartic to write this. You sort of just answered that. Like, reading the book will kind of make you angry, and it makes you want to hug the kid version of you because your parents were just, you were like an orphan with parents. I think you said that in the book, right?

Yeah, for sure. So what would you tell your childhood self if you could go back and like appear in a dream or like at the skate park and be like, Bobby, here's something important you need to know. It's funny because there's just nothing I could tell myself. Like, do you know what to me? Like I'd think about it.

I'm like, I mean, what could I say? Hey, man, I love you. Or like it gets better. It's not always going to be horrible like this. I don't know. I think now we're getting into like primer time machine kind of like territory where I feel like if I told myself that,

I'd be like, fuck yeah. Kick my feet up. and start smoking dope and I'd be like, everything's gonna be all right. Like, anyway, and then it actually turns into this like alternate version of myself. Right, yeah, the butterfly effect, only with crack. Exactly, dude.

So, but I don't know. Yeah, you snapped. That was funny. Yeah, but I don't know, man. It's not a cop out. I'd love to give you an answer. I just don't know. No, it's fine.

Look, I don't have a good answer to that either. So I just always wondered if, because sometimes people are like, I wish I could tell my younger self that they should brush their teeth more, whatever it is. I don't know. What do you think, like, Bobby the Child

would think of Bobby the adult? Like, are you surprised that you turned out well? I'm surprised I'm successful. I've always been a good person. You know what I mean? I'm not perfect. I have flaws. I made mistakes, obviously.

I spent a kid's gatorade once, but we won't get into that. You know, it's like I think I would have turned out to be a good person. I might have made a few more mistakes because if I wasn't so focused and didn't have a dream that was, you know, music and just utterly committing myself

to this one thing for my entire life as also a form of escape and therapy, right, at the same time. I don't know what would have happened, but I am so surprised that I'm rich. I'm just being real, bro. I can't believe it. Like, the shit is crazy. Like, I'm like a rich guy. And I don't say that to sound.

No, it's in any way. Of course. This is coming from the guy from food stamps and welfare and nothing and powdered milk with roaches in my cereal and starving. Like, I'm saying, like, I can't believe it. I'm proud of myself, you know what I mean? And I'm proud of myself that I did it for the right way, like the right reasons, a positive message, peace, love, and positivity, be yourself, you know, the message of equality for every man,

woman, and child, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, and sexual orientation. These are things that I believe. These are messages that I've preached. And I was also made fun of for, you know, doing and saying these things, especially in hip-hop. It was very taboo, let alone me rapping about Rubik's hubes and sci-fi, and people are like, see, this is why you're not black. We're telling you. Like, just all the shit that I had to do.

Black people don't watch anime. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, that's a fact. Even though it's like I discovered anime from like my black homie, Robert Naples. We used to call him Robert Nipples. Anyway, and, yeah, it's just I can't believe that I'm here and I'm so happy. And yeah, so I think the younger version of myself would be very proud and kind of like, whoa.

Yeah. Because I also did it on my own. Bro, I was not myself. And high school, forget about it. I used to, like, steal anime from online and, like, take a screenshot from, like, this thing called FLCL fully coolly and like send it to girls and be like yeah i drew this oh yeah i mean why are you lying like what are you doing being a teenager it's all so cringe and we've all done it right we've all done it some version of that like you ever watch youtube and guys are like yeah this is my car

and you're just like dude i see myself only you know at age 13 only you're 30 so it's way more pathetic and you're just like it's so weird to see that yeah that deep insecurity of being there a lot of people don't grow out of that so yeah good thing that that happened for both of us at least to some degree. For sure. You wrote that you felt like you never belonged, not at school, not even at home, you never fit in.

But the insight that you talk about in the book was important, right? Now you realize it's okay to not fit in. I think you say you can't stand out and fit in at the same time, which is like kind of a geniusly subtle comment. Oh, thank you. Or it's a shitty cliche that doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, for sure. Exactly. But yeah, man, I never fit in. I didn't fit in at home because I wasn't smoking crack. I'm joking. But it's like I didn't fit in there, really because I wasn't mentally ill. You know what I mean? Like I was a normal kid. Yeah. So I was a normal

kid that didn't fit in. And because I was a normal kid, I also kind of didn't fit in at school. Right. I don't think most kids ever really feel like they fit in. You know, you might get a kind of niche or this or that. But even if you're like a jock, but the jock like secretly loves anima. Yeah, he feels like he does like, who knows, you know? I think we all go through that. But especially when I got to hip hop, I didn't feel like I fit in. Because it wasn't like, and I talk about this in the book. It wasn't like, oh, it's Eminem. Like he's a white boy. So he's outside of the circle, but he's really good at rap, so we'll just accept him as he is. It was like, no, we can't put you in a box.

Like, you're not black, but you are, but like you're not, but like, what? Like, not enough for us, but also not white, but also not Eminem, but also, yeah. Yeah. So it was just like a weird thing to try to figure out. And then I realized there's nothing to figure out. There's nothing to prove. There's nothing. Like, dude, it is what it is.

That's why I've only really ever talked about it in my music, like really that one time on the everybody album, which the song, Way, 100 was on as well. Yeah. I just, just because I was tired of people trying to tell me what my identity was, which is crazy, because it's just like people saying you are this or you're not that or making fun of me for actually being proud about it. So it's like, I'll do an interview. And somebody's like, oh, you're, so you're white. What's that like, you know, being a white boy, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, no, my dad's actually black. And then all the comments are like, why is you bringing that up? Why is you trying to prove himself? Why is you trying to? And it's just like, no, motherfucker. I'm just telling you what I am. And it's just you can never make anybody happy. And I'm like, why am I even trying to make. make anybody happy anyway. I just need to, who gives a shit what you think, motherfucker? Like, this is who I am. Social, a lot of people are going to be like, wait a minute. If you're in that situation, you know, CPS, what the hell were those people doing?

You write that social assistance like welfare isn't there to help people solve problems. It's there to keep people with problems away from the people who don't have problems so they don't become those people's problem, which is probably really true. And I'd never thought about that, right? It's a level of power that these systems hold over you, right? So it's like, think about it, dude. My mom's been on assisted living and all this for like 35 years. Like, you know what I mean?

It's insane how long she's been on food stamps and welfare. She's in the same place. Like she's in the same exact place. And all of her friends are in the same place and all the people that I grew up with and their parents and all this who were, you know, more so on the mentally ill side and dealing with things and all those. they're in the same place. So I do believe that things like food stamps

and assisted living and all that can and does help people, but the majority of the people, I've seen it just holds them down, keeps them here, gives them just enough money to buy food, just enough money to pay the rent so that they don't go buy crack.

But that doesn't stop them from doing that. You know what I mean? Like, it's a difficult thing. Mind you, that's not everybody, bro. Like, look at myself. I saw that. I utilized that. I was on that thing.

And I used that to then be like, Like, okay, well, my food, or at least most of it is here for the month, my this, my that. And then I, even as a kid, was focusing on wraps and other ways to make it out of that. And I have seen other people make it out of that who were adults, who were on welfare or this or that because they had a messed up situation or maybe they were on drugs when they were younger, and then they went to N.A. or A.A., and then they got in a program that helped them get on their feet, and then they got a job. And it really was something amazing. And it is something amazing. But I've just seen both sides, and I've seen a little more of the latter in the

negative of people just perpetuating the same, you know, lifestyle over and over. You were coached by your parents, right, to talk to the social workers. They obviously use some fear to make sure that you, because it seems like obviously if they come over and you're like, yeah, donuts for dinner three days in a row. I haven't eaten breakfast ever. And, you know, my mom has been gone for three days. I've been home alone. Like, you would have been yanked out of there in two seconds. Yeah, big coaching, you know. And I talk about that in the book. It's like, now remember if she asked you if you eat every day, like, Like say yes.

It's not like I was going hungry, but you know what I mean? Like they would just coach me. Because the biggest thing she would say is like if you go to an orphanage, like you're going to get raped. And if you go to a foster home, like they're going to sexually molest you and all this shit. And I didn't even know what it was. So I'm like, what are you talking about? And then she's like, you want to know what I'm talking about? And then she'll go in description of like, they're going to take your penis and I'm just like, dude, I'm like eight.

You know what I mean? So it's crazy. Yeah. I remember I actually just released a little snippet online. Of the time my mom told me that if a man ever tries to rape me as he's entering me to scream at the top of my lungs that I have AIDS. As he's entering you, which is so graphic and ridiculous. But I'm like, what are you entering? What are you talking?

There's no doors. What do you mean? But I'm a child, man. And it's crazy that, like, it just was pretty insane. Oh, yeah. Well, like your mom taught you to, she did some good things, right? She taught you to memorize a lot to look up a ton of words. You built a huge vocabulary and a habit of building that vocabulary.

I assume from all of that dictionary work, which, like, that's a skill that comes in handy when you're a rapper, I assume. Very much so, yeah. Anytime I didn't understand a word, my mother would make me look it up. You know, like I say in the book, which it was annoying at the time,

but now I actually really appreciate it because it taught me to, like, do things yourself. If you want information or you want something, seek it out, find it. It just feels better that way. You know, it's like you've accomplished something, which is great. Yeah, she taught me how to memorize lines.

I think I was like Shakespeare in this wax museum kind of play. where they would push this little sticker that was like a button on your hand, and then you say, hi, I'm William Shakespeare, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she would have me memorize the first line like over and over and over and over and over,

and then do that first line in the second line, over and over and over line one, line two, line one, line two, then integrate three, then four, then five, and then before you know, you've memorized the whole thing and that's how I memorize my raps to this day. Music in general.

You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Bobby Hall. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling New Age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiratuality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic

dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracy. An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiruality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics. Find Conspiruality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Back. Thank you for listening to and supporting this show.

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I hope that's useful for you. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Don't forget worksheets for many episodes with all the drills and the exercises talked about in one easy place. Those are linked in the show notes. at Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast. Now, back to Bobby Hall. That's crazy.

It's so funny that you still use that same skill. I mean, I guess it's one of the best ways to memorize anything, and if you're used to it, you're used to it. But to have that be like a skill that's foundational to what you create now and having it come from like this whirlwind crazy situation of a parent is kind of, it's like poetic in a way, almost, that she's like giving you the ability to do what you do now

to get out of that situation, to have gotten out. a large part of the forgiveness is in the fact that I would even admit that, right? Because it's like, if I didn't want to talk about my mother or the things that I'd gone through, I was so angry at her, I wouldn't want to give her that credit. But it's like that was the good part of her. You know what I mean? Like that was the good day, or like 20 minutes, that my mom was around and doing something nice, you know, so yeah, I mean, even my social security number, which is fully seven night, no, I'm just kidding. She made me write it a hundred times. And I'm like 10 years old. What do I need to know my Social Security number for at 10 years old, but I never forgot it. Growing up like that,

did you think that it was tough now as an adult to, let's say, surround yourself with good people? Because you didn't have good role models or templates as a kid for who to surround yourself with. Did you have a problem developing that intuition or that skill as an adult? Because it can be, like, if you grow up around chaos and crazy people, you're not often like, I need to surround myself with stable, nice people who have a good head on their shoulders. Like, it's tough to do that. Well, there's my homie, Josh, who went to jail for, like, stabbing this dude in his stomach and, like, kind of gutting him open. So, like, he wasn't, he wasn't the best example of somebody that I should be hanging around with as a teenager, but he also had mental problems that he was going through at the time. And so you're kind of, like, hanging out with these kids.

And as you get older, we're all kind of doing hood shit and stupid shit that we shouldn't do. Like, you know, I was hanging around them, shooting guns and driving and doing, just doing dumbass shit. But I was, I never felt like that was me. So I was like, I don't think I should be doing this. And that's when I got other friends. And I was like, okay, yeah, these are cool, good, normal people. And I think the only real reason I was kind of like doing dumb hoodlum shit is because I didn't want to be at home and I wanted anything that I wanted to do anything I could not to be there.

And in many ways, I was, I was searching for a family outside of my household, which is like, honestly, like, gang members and a lot of people, like, that's what you do. That's the same thing. Right. Your home life isn't good. Your parents might not be shit. So it's important to try to find people who will love you. But it's just very difficult when that love also comes from a place of like,

let's get this money, let's sell these drugs, let's do this, let's do that. So I saw all that and I was like, no, I don't think that's for me. But it wasn't really difficult, no. I think it was difficult to find good people outside of that circle because like good people didn't really live around me. It was very few and far between. But as I got older, as I left my mom's house, that's when I just off chance. By going to places, like I said, Alan Watts says anything you can be interested in, you'll find others who are.

So I was doing things. I was going to open mics and doing this and doing all this other stuff. That's another thing that taught me about why hip hop is so beautiful. Sure, there may be a little bit of drama between two clicks or this or that, but it was never really physical. It was always more so like, yo, he's rap saying as good as mine, but then you see him in person, you're like, hey, man, good job. That was dope. There was a lot of love there. So when I got into actual hip hop and saw the mainstream and how negative that can be,

it was very difficult. But I know and knew then that still like what makes hip hop, hip hop was always full of positivity. I was always welcome with open arms by like the legends and the people who aren't really worried about all the BS on Twitter and Instagram. They just want to make good music and spread a positive message. So I learned to separate the two. And I think I was able to do that because I was able to separate. to two as a kid trying to find what group of friends I should have.

Yeah, you mentioned, like, as a kid, just to laundry list some of the crazy stuff, like you went pimping with your dad while you were living with him. Actually, that had to affect, did that affect your views on women at that point? Because you're, like, in high school and you're out pimping with your dad. You're either looking at women differently because of that or you're just real life. I mean, did you, or did you just know that that was so crazy that that wasn't real life? I mean, was she a woman? Yeah, was she a lady?

No. I think there's a big difference. You know what I mean? It's like, I wouldn't call her a lady. Yeah, well. But I knew that, you know? So, yeah, I think it was just really weird. I don't know.

I was in the car one time. My dad was like, hold on, we got to go make this trip. And there's some like, white bitch I've never seen before in the front seat. She's all young. And then she goes into some house while we go to the McDonald's and wait across the street, looking at the house. And then we go pick her up and she gives my dad a bunch of money. So it's like, what do you think, Abbage?

Crazy. It's just such a weird life to have in high school. You know, you mentioned in the book as well that, like, the thing about lazy people, I'm not try and paraphrase because I didn't type out the exact thing, but the thing about lazy people was that they're not lazy at all. They spend so much time thinking of schemes and plans to get around doing a regular job, that if they had just stuck with a regular job, they'd be so much further ahead than they really were.

Like, scammers are like this, right? It doesn't pay to do this in the long term. It's a dysfunctional paradigm. So it seems like you did learn that lesson pretty quick, right? Because you now know, hey, it's better to have skills, even if it seems slower, because the returns are outsized, but they come later on down the line, like a snowball.

Yeah, and I think I referenced my dad being the Daniel Ocean of laziness. Yeah, like, yeah, like it's, I was a little lazy, you know what I mean? Well, you were a kid. Yeah, it's different. You're right. I was like a teenager, you know what I mean? So it's a really weird thing. I don't know why I wore this shirt.

What does it say? I was trying to figure it out the whole time. It says Toro Imoa. It's one of my favorite musicians. But it's, first of all, I love the shirt. I just, this collar is like big and I don't, I doesn't know. You want to change? I can wait.

I got all the time in the world. Don't I just look like I'm just like, come on busy. Come on in the house right now. What are you doing, girl? And that's what you can expect from my audio book. Voices by Bobby Hall. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, if you get uncomfortable and you want to change, let me know, but honestly it's fine.

Nobody cares about the video as much as the audio. So I can actually like pee whenever I want. Oh, yeah, yeah. If you have to go to the bathroom, just be like, yo, I got to go to the bathroom. We'll edit it out and then place it back together and nobody will know. Can we keep me talking about possibly peeing in and then they'll just guess when it might have happened? Yeah, we'll just leave this whole section in. And then later on, if there's an awkward edit, they'll be like a bet Bobby had to pee.

Yeah. And he had to go to the bathroom. 100%. We'll leave that whole thing with the collar of the shirt and everything. It's funny. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who's like self-conscious on camera from their collars and their shirts and their bladder. Dude, you want to talk about self-conscious on camera? So I found out I have cervical dystonia.

Do you know what that is? No, what is that? Wait, cervical. Oh, wait. I know, right? I was like, cervix? I'm like, wait a second. There's something I'm not telling it.

It's basically, so dystonia is a form of like, it's just like a neurological disorder, but writers and painters, their hands can like cramp up and kind of go into this like gnarly position. Oh, wow. When they go into that. But for me, it's not that. That's dystonia. cervical dystonia is of the neck. And I like to be open about this because possibly anybody who else who else who,

who might be going through it out there, just knows that they're not alone. So my head shakes. And if I sit here, I'll show it to you. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, on the video, you can see it. It's a slight nod. You really do have to be looking for it.

Yeah, but you feel it obviously much more strong. And it's annoying, but at rest it goes away. So it's not Parkinson's disease, but it's just something that can become degenerative. So yesterday I went to the doctor and I got 10 fucking shots of Botox in the back of my neck, deep in the muscle. So I'm about to have a young ass-looking neck.

No, I'm kidding. It's so deep, but basically what they try to do is weaken the muscle so that it doesn't turn back and forth. And for me, it's like, it just really sucks because when I'm doing interviews and things like that, like, you haven't noticed it with this entire time. I'm like, okay, I'm going to put my hand right here for a moment, and then I'm going to put my head to the side. It's like this whole thing that I got to think about.

I know it's random. It's like a dance that you're doing with your neck muscles to, like, not trigger them. Yeah, I don't know. It's just because otherwise I would just be shaking my head, no, and you'd think I was just disagreeing with everything here. For what it's worth, it's so barely noticeable, but obviously when it's you, you feel like you're just not, you're flailing your head around. It doesn't look like that. I agree, but it would be noticeable if I were to just sit completely normally, which I wish I could do.

Like, dude, even writing, like literature and novels and the scripts and shit that I'm working on, like, I can't sit at a table. Like, it sucks. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I kind of got to like either lean back and, like, write or lean forward and right that way so that the muscles in my head don't shake. But there's a fun fact about Bob, logic guy, mixed boy. Yeah, I think it's important to share that stuff, though, because people have that stuff, and then they're like, you know, it makes them feel like a freak or something, or it's like everyone knows this. It's so rare. Nobody who has this is doing anything interesting because people are hiding it. It's not fair, right? It's not true at all either. So, all right, I'll skip ahead a little bit in the story here. So you get assaulted at random by just some guy who thinks you're like a Crip or a blood or one of the others. And, like, he freaks you out. And you start going on AOL as all of us good nerds do to escape in the 90s. and you get introduced to Cool Edit Pro,

which is funny that you mentioned it took like all night to download because I remember those days so much. I downloaded like a Snoop Dog, MP3 in probably like 1995, and I was like, oh, three more hours and I'm gonna have this track on my computer. Yeah, you could have like driven to the store

nine times and bought the album. Yes, I could have just reproduced the actual track myself without the vocals. Yeah, seriously. And then that amount of time. And you find these like online rap battle chat rooms, which sounds, actually sounds really fun. Yeah.

I can't imagine what those were like in the 90s, though. Tell me about that sort of process, because that's obvious where you start cutting your teeth, right? Yeah, this is like mid-2000s, actually. So it was like 2005, six, seven. And yeah, you kind of just go to this forum and everyone sucks. Yeah.

Everyone's like really bad, including yourself. Like 13 years old. Yeah, I mean, yeah, or maybe even older, you know, they just always wanted a rap, but it's kind of like poetry. I ended up being the number one ranked because there was like a ranking system and there's like number one.

And I went by Lord Sublabor. and I had a picture of Bruce Lee as my avatar, and I was number one, and it was the first time I was number one at anything besides being poor. It's really crazy. Right, so at that point, are you thinking, I should become a rapper,

or are you like, okay, I'm the best, I'm the world's tallest midget, so to speak, because I'm like the best rapper in this chat room where everyone sucks. No, I was definitely just, I was still rapping, too. Like, I was rapping at my house over beats and instrumentals and certain things like that.

So I think I did have an advantage. I'm sure there was other people. Like, I met this guy named Well Aware who used to write raps and he was from England, but he made beats. So it's like, if I'm rapping and he's making beats, there's people here who actually do love, care, appreciate, and know about hip-hop. So it wasn't really like all that bad, but it was like, it was pretty garbage. Just the raps, especially mine. Mine was, it was like, yeah, I'll contour you, then distort you. Come back and then report you.

Like, what? What are you talking about? At least it rhymed. Yeah, but it was like a walking thesaurus. It was like, what do you do? I was literally, I had the thesaurus, and I would just look at thesaurus and be like, okay, thesaurus, of course, go to the divorce. And, like, it was just so stupid.

At least you're not rhyming the same way. It drives me crazy when somebody who's like on an actual CD is making a one word rhyme with that same word, another verse later. I'm like, there's so many options and you rhymed cake with cake. It's not creative when you do that. But, I mean, who am I? Unless it's a double entendre. Like, unless it's like, it makes sense if you say it that way, which is cool. Or if it's like you're saying like,

homie, like, I don't know, like something, you ain't ever know me, homie. I said, da, da, da, dunna, how you feeling, homie? So it's like if you're addressing kind of maybe the listener or something, it's okay. But I know what you're talking about and it can be kind of annoying, yes. Yeah, especially when it's a word like feet. I'm like, there's so many words that rhyme with feet. You just didn't bother to find one, Kanye. Anyway, so how did Helen Keller? How did Helen Keller inspire you? Because this is somebody where I'm like, okay, I remember reading about her in school, but I don't remember, I've never heard anybody be like, my inspiration is Helen Keller,

which I thought was kind of, uh, it was unexpected. So I watched this movie called The Miracle Worker, long story short, and it's basically about this woman who's a teacher who goes to Helen Keller's house back in the day, and Helen Keller was blind. She couldn't speak or hear,

so she was deaf as well. There's a scene of the movie where she's basically walking around, I mean, she's like, low-key living on a plantation, like her parents are like, you know, super wealthy and got all these black folk working for them. And it's like kind of weird, actually. to watch it now. But anyway, so they're at this really long table eating

breakfast and little Helen's just going around putting her hands in people's shit and just eating it, you know, eating eggs and bacon and whatever. And the miracle worker, Annie, I believe is her name in the movie. I think her name was like Anne Sullivan or something, or am I making that up? Yeah, I think so. So she sees this little girl eating all this

stuff off the place. She's like, no, this is not going to work, like, leave me with her. And they're like, oh, no, that's just the way Helen is. And they're like, no. You're like, y'all hired me to come out here and help this girl. So they leave her in the room, and long story short, how many times have I said that already? She's taking the eggs and throwing it,

and she sits little Helen down, and Helen doesn't want to eat the eggs, and use a spoon, she doesn't want to use a utensil, and they're fighting, and she's, like, throwing these eggs on the floor, and I remember watching this in black and white, and it's raining outside, and I was starving, and we didn't really have anything to eat, and I was like, this bitch got more food than I do,

and she just started all, like, you know, I'm in my head, like, this is crazy. By the end of the scene, it's a really beautiful moment where the mother comes in once all the fighting is kind of stopped. And Helen's there. And she's like, Annie tells the mother, Helen used a spoon to eat her eggs. And she's like, oh my God, a spoon. But this is huge.

Like this girl has never done anything like this before. You know, it's like insane. And then she's like, and she folded her napkin. She was like, oh, my God. So then they go off to the woods. She's like, I can't be here with y'all because like the dad was kind of an asshole. And like would just, anytime Helen was making progress, he would kind of like take her back by just letting her do whatever she wants because she's kind of testing.

like a baby, like to see what she can do. Right. So Annie's like, all right, I'm taking her to the middle of nowhere in your guys like cottage house and they go out there for like weeks or months and she just makes so much progress. It's insane, but she's still not necessarily comprehending what the spelling in her hand of sign language actually means.

And then at the end of the movie, when Andy's like, I can't do this anymore, like your father's telling me to leave, like she tries one more time and she pumps water from a spring over her hands and spells water. Helen doesn't get it and she doesn't get it. She doesn't get it.

And then she, and he's like, okay, well, bye. Like my train's here, I'm about to leave. And then she gets it. And it always makes me cry. I'm actually surprised I'm not in tears right now because she understands water, water, and she's going to the ground and she spells ground and she goes to a tree

and spells tree and then she goes to her teacher and spells teacher. That's the part that always gets me very emotional because it's such a beautiful moment. And I was like, if this fucking blind deaf girl who can't even speak can like become educated and make a life for herself, well, then I can. I could do that. I'm more well off. Not in that, I'm saying I'm privileged,

like you have all your senses. Exactly. I'm fortunate and blessed. Like, I can make it. And I've always kind of equated a lot of my thought process to that. If I didn't understand something, if I didn't know how to rhyme the best, or wrap the best, or produce and make beats the best, or record myself on cool edit pro the best, it was just about the process of understanding and comprehending what water meant in how to spell it. And I've kind of, well, no, I have. I've used that way of thinking with everything that I've ever done. What do you think when kids from like loving homes where they have everything and they get a new card age 16 and they're totally fine, they go to a private school, what do you think when they turn out terrible when you came from terrible environment and

turned out pretty good? Like that has to be a little confusing. No, that was my best friend Josh growing up, right? You know, he went to prison. Like, he just did a bunch of drugs, you know. His parents paid for college And he was like, I'm taking a year off Which is what every kid says Before they fuck their lives up Yeah So it was like

It was just kind of like All right, wow, this is weird And he was like a gangster But he wasn't His family were just so sweet There for him, supported him Like it's not like They didn't have like money money

But he never needed for anything He lived in a three story house Like it was incredible But he was walking around With shotguns under his trench coat and shit Like it was wild man This dude was like watching Tony Montana And all this stuff

And it's funny because, you know, people who actually aren't about that life, if they believe it and they live in that delusion, they become about that life. You know, they go from just like a wannabe wankster to a real gangster who will fuck you up and kill you. And that's not a good thing at all. Right. You know what I mean? But yeah, I think it just comes down to them personally. I don't look at those kids or those people and be like, you shouldn't even be this. That's who you are.

That's something that even scares me as a father. It's like I can give my son the best life that I could possibly. give him, but I don't know. He could meet some stupid girl who's like doing Coke in the bathroom or something and he's just in love with her. You just, you never know. I think he'll be okay and I'd like to think he'll be okay. But at the end of the day, like his parents were the best parents. Like, they're my God parents. They just visited me. I treat them like my mother and father since I didn't really have one and I don't have them. So yeah, I mean, we are all in control of ourselves and we are all still who we are. And I think that's also the difference between me and certain members of

my family that kind of went down the same path that we saw the adults doing when we were children, and I didn't. So I think it might just be the fact that I'm just me. I don't know. God of common sense, like I say. Yeah, it's scary to see kids who have everything. Like, because of course my first gut instinct is like, well, you don't know what was going on in that house, but you actually totally do because you were there all the time. You're still, you were super close to this parent. So it's like, okay, so if it wasn't them. I just, you know, you want, as a father, and I know you get this, you want there to be some external cause that you can point to where you're like, oh, well, he had this thing happen and then this other thing happen, and then also he had this mental condition, and that all coalesced

to creating a bad thing and his parents couldn't do anything about it. Because the last thing we want is to have a kid, and we're like, so I did everything right, and then they just turned out and did this horrible, and like shots or stabbed someone, and now they're in prison forever, and you're like, and I can't even do anything about it. Well, think about it, dude. family is just a history of violence and drug abuse. I am the complete opposite. So it's an anomaly, right? Really, when you think about it. So it's like, what you're describing is just the other version of me. It's just weird. It's literally, I don't know how I'm here right now with my crazy hair. It's like, yeah, it's like an alternate universe slash in our universe, your best friend

turned out like you were kind of, quote unquote, supposed to. And you turned out in many ways, He was quote unquote supposed to. Your name, the name Logic, anyway, comes from your old name, Psychological, which, by the way, logic, much easier to say. Yeah, trust me. Did you start laughing because it's cringe to say psychological as you're right? I remember fucking open it up for Ghostface and I was like, the crowd was loving me and I was like, yeah, psychological, psychological.

And I had like 500 people screaming psychological and I got offstage was like, well, that, that doesn't sound right. Yeah. And then my buddy Lenny, my buddy Lenny called me Psycho for a while, but then he was like, well, that's weird. And then he just started calling me logic. It's funny, though, being logic because for so much of my life, like, logic was who I was, like a nickname, like skinny or black.

Like, it was just logic. Like, so his whole family would call me logic. The kids would call me Uncle Logic. It wasn't this weird thing. But now if somebody calls me logic, like personally that I know, it's kind of fucking weird because I'm like, I'm Bobby. Like, you know what I mean? Like, for sure, like, okay, we're doing this awesome podcast right now.

Bobby Hall is the author of this memoir. I am also known as Logic. We're obviously discussing both of these things, but this would be a situation where it's like, hey, I'm Bobby, which is who I am. So in person, if I see somebody outside, they're like, oh, Logic, what's up? But like, if I have, I don't know,

if my assistant's hanging out with like some new girl, and he's like, I really like this girl, man, she's really amazing. And I'm like, cool. And he's like, yeah, man, I think we're going to fucking do it tonight. And I'm like, okay, whatever, all right. And he's like, yeah, okay, well, I'll see you at the double date. And I'm like, all right, cool.

And then I go out to the double date, and somehow she's like, hey, logic, can you? I'm like, nah, man, you got dumped this bitch, man. You know what I mean? For sure. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm obviously joking. I would never ask you. Yeah, well, yeah, of course, yeah, I think most people realize that, but you never know, know, there's a lot of people that are listening that are like, this is horrible.

No, what's insane is like, even just the context of like, like, I would never actually call a woman a bitch. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't, I mean, I mean, unless she was a bitch, you know what I mean? Like, no, I mean, but you know what I mean. It's like literally. Like if she walked in the room and elbowed my wife and tried to get ahead of us in line at a doctor's office, I'd be like, oh, man, she's kind of a bitch. You know what I mean?

Just like this guy could be an asshole or whatever. It's just a phrase. I could say bad person this and that. For me, it has nothing to do. I call my homies. I'm like, stop acting like a bitch. For me, it's not a misogynistic thing. I think you can tell by my story how much love, reverence and respect that I have for women.

I just, I've always thought it was really funny that for somebody like myself, you know, an entertainer who may be saying something in a joke. moking manner or way, especially when you know their heart and who they are and their intentions also. When you know that somebody's intentions, it's like, okay, I'm a comedian or an entertainer, I'm telling a story, it's comical, I may be saying this in a funny way, I just find it funny that people get so goddamn offended. Ben out of shape, yeah. But especially when they know who you are, like when I can sit here and say how I feel. Now, don't get me wrong. If I was like hanging out with my wife and she had a girlfriend and

they both dressed up or something and I was like, damn, you bitches look beautiful. And I'm obviously like just joking. And that girlfriend of hers was like, please don't call me that. I'd be like, no problem. Like obviously I was just kidding, but you may have some reason or this or that or whatever. No problem. I just think it's kind of crazy if I'm obviously joking and somebody would get so serious. You know what I mean?

But when you're just obviously making a joke. I think that's more of like them wanting attention though, right? That's like more like, okay, I need to get this person on the back foot. so I'm going to claim something is super offensive when it's not. Now, if something is patently offensive, like you mentioned the N word with the hard R at the end, like that's when you're like, yo, you can't say that. I don't like that.

It's offensive. It's offensive to other people that aren't me. Stop. But if it's like, if you're doing that in the privacy of your own home and it's like a friendly thing and someone's like, I'm going to get offended by that. I kind of question the motive there. I think a lot of is them wanting attention.

They want to get you on the backflit. Not always, but a lot of the time. It's like, dude, women are not bitches. They should not be called bitches. It just is what it is. Even me as a rapper. It's like a systemic thing. I've like had songs where I'm like, yeah, I got these bitches at my grip.

And then sometimes I ask myself like, wait, why do I say that? I think it's because Jay Z said it and Drake said it and Kendrick said it. It's a rap culture thing. And it's a yeah. And then I realize like, oh, man, that's kind of weird. But when it comes to actually addressing women, I mean, forget about it. I just think the concept of like, I don't know how to explain it. It's just kind of like the whole Chappelle thing or like just stand-up comedians in general.

It's like, how can you go to somebody's show who's known for being provocative, never necessarily says something in a way that is hate speech. Like when I look at Chappelle personally, I look at a man who makes fun of everybody, every race, including his own, every gender, every this, every that. Because if we're all laughing at each of these things that he's saying, we're all laughing at each other.

And in a way, we're all being connected because of it. So to just be all, like, pissed off about it, I don't know. And I'm like, a quality king, you know what I mean? I'm like, we'll fight for the right for anybody, but it's just like certain circumstances. Like, dude, it's a joke. And as long as it's not truly hurting,

someone you know what i mean like you're not going at somebody like how your grandma died you fucking idiot like jeez like that's not what you know i don't i don't even know how the fuck we got here yeah that was all you man i just letting you ride ride on sorry this is the jordan harbinger show with our guest bobby hall we'll be right right back and now for the conclusion of our episode with bobby hall to your point the rapping is like you can play a character and you mention this in the book right you say i could rap about chilling and cabo and making millions of dollars when all I had were food stamps in a living room couch. And did having kind of an alter ego

keep you from maybe feeling anxiety or imposter syndrome on stage? Because a lot of people who are in front of a thousand people are like, who am I to be here? I don't deserve this. And it can totally mess you up. You know, it's funny that you say that because I do feel that way

and I even wrote in the book how I felt that way that it is this kind of alter ego. It's an image. It's like Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne, but he puts on a bat suit and he becomes Batman. But also a lot of, of a majority of what I was rapping about actually was and did stem from me personally the things

that I was going through, you know, just emotionally or financially or this or that. So it was a little more nerve-wracking because I was so honestly myself as well. So it was a bit of both. It was kind of like, yeah, I'm on stage. Like, I'm logic. And when I'm holding this microphone, I'm the best rapper in the world. That's just the way, you know, you got to have to tell yourself that to give yourself that courage. But it's also like I'm rapping about mental health. and all this stuff on stage at the same time. So I think there's a lot of rappers. I think a majority of rappers are not themselves

and they are this kind of different person and I've always just so been myself. That's why if I ever got like shit on on the internet or people were coming at me or saying, you're not this, you're not that, da, da, whatever. It's just like, but I am. Like so when they're attacking me, they're not attacking this like,

fictitious rapper. Yeah, this guy who's, yeah, exactly. That is interesting. Because, of course, if you're playing a character, it's hard not to feel good enough or not smart enough or talented enough as yourself because you're making up a new identity that you're using. But if you're using your own identity, like on this show, like I'm myself, people always go, wow, you know, I'm just when I meet them in person, I was like, you're the exact same person on the show as you are in person. and sometimes they're like, oh, you really let loose in person, which is kind of annoying because I'm like, not annoying, but disappointing because I'm like,

man, shouldn't my most entertaining version of myself be the one on the show, not the one that's hanging out with my friends? But it's funny that you have two different perspectives of that. So it's kind of like, it depends maybe on the day they meet you or their own personal, how they take that experience of meeting you then. Sure, yeah, no, of course. I mean, I think people expect me to be like more, maybe more, but no, I don't know. Maybe they think I'm performing on the show

when really all I'm doing is, I don't know, whatever. I'm the same person. That's the point. I think you're just a good speaker. I mean, it's like, dude, as soon as it's lights, camera action, there's a microphone in your face. Like, you watch what you say, you this, you that. I mean, that's why I said, honestly, that's why I said what I said about how I feel about women and like the term bitch and this and all this other stuff is because we live in an

era where somebody could try to try to completely take that out of context when I've been sitting. Like singing women's praises and how much I respect women and all this and stuff. And then they could try to do that. So, but there is a different you when you. when you're on camera. That doesn't mean you off camera is any worse. But I've had conversations with some big people, like big people, entertainers, actors, gay, straight, white, black, this,

that, that'd be saying some wild shit. Because it's the real world, you know what I mean? And it's just kind of crazy. And when I say wild shit, I don't necessarily mean something that's like even considered negative. It's just like they're just talking extremely honestly. And even if what they're saying, whether you, you, me, the next person may agree with it, may not, may this, may that, we live in an era now where it's just, I mean, think about it, man. Public hangings in the West. Yeah.

Everybody love that shit, man. Yeah. Entertaining. That's what kind of social media has become now where it's like you might say one thing. It may be even what you said isn't necessarily negative, but it's how you said it. And everyone knows what you mean, but we're still going to go after you anyway. Yeah, there's something to that. I mean, it's definitely a scary sort of, they call it cancel culture, I guess, but some of it is just accountability, but where is that line, I suppose? That's the question, right?

When you started to promote your shows, oh, by the way, this was so funny. When you're talking about rejection, people throwing your business cards in the trash. My own producer, the guy who makes all my music to this day when we first met, I was like, hey, man, what's up? Yo, I'm Logic from Merlin. Here's my business card. And he just threw that shit in the trash. I don't even know how we worked together today. Sorry, please. continue. That's so funny. That's funny, but it's so, like, everybody who's put anything out in the world knows how that feels. And it never, it never, like, goes away. It's always in the back of your psyche. Remember that time that you gave somebody this and they were like, thanks? And they just literally threw it back in your face or ripped it up. The best possibly rejection story that I've heard in a long time, possibly and forever, was when tell us the story where someone's announcing the man you've all been waiting for. This had me rolling. All right. So,

I'm opening up for Mac Miller, right? This is RIP, rest in peace, great kid, great guy. I'm opening up for Mac Miller. This has got to be 2011, maybe even 10, but I think it was 2011. I'm at this club in Virginia, and it's one of those shows that's put on by a promoter. First of all, let me just explain. The promoter was also one of the performers rapping. So that should just let you know what kind of show this is.

Yeah. There's a million opening acts. These kids are packed in this club that's like maybe 400 people. and they've been literally waiting for hours. And I was direct support. So when I found out like, oh, I'm going to be direct support for Mac Miller. Like, that's crazy. The direct support is right before the headliner.

So I was like, oh, my God, amazing. Like two hours later and like 10 acts, I'm the last guy. Honestly, I don't know why my DJ introduced me this way because. Oh, no. Yeah, they were asking for it, right? Yeah, it was really funny. But he's like, all right, now the man who y'all been waiting for. And everyone was like, ah.

And then this was really weird just because we would always talk about just me being black and mixed and all this other shit. And then he goes, and he's this big, tall black dude from the University of Maryland, who's my DJ. And he goes, the illest white boy on the scene right now. And I was like, what? But I'm walking to the stage. There's like footage online of this. And I'm walking to the stage. He's like, put your hands together.

And everyone's like, oh, my God. For large you. and everyone just starts fucking booing and I'm like, oh my God. And I get out on the stage and I just do the first thing it comes to my head. I was like, listen, I know y'all been waiting.

Mac Miller's coming out here next. I promise you're gonna have to sit through me but I'll make it quick and I'll make it fun. And then I just started, I started rapping doing my thing. I enjoyed it and it was cool. Yeah. There's the only time I've ever been booed. Well, I've been booed a couple other times

but I asked the crowd to boo me because I thought it'd be hilarious and then I posted on my social media and people were like, logic bombs. But this is just me like taking advantage of how nobody actually like checks anything, and I thought it would be really funny to do, but yeah.

That's actually a really good idea. I think next time I speak, I might be like, hey, boo, so that the footage has that at the end and just say it before they start recording. There's a fun prank in there somewhere, but it might be jokes on me kind of situation. Look, you know, this just popped into my head. Moby actually, when I interviewed him a long time ago, he mentioned that his first show, what happened. You know how he has all that electronic stuff, and like in the 90s, it like took,

it was a computer that took forever to boot up. They had unplugged all of his stuff. So his first show, they announced him in the first, like, 15 minutes is him plugging everything back in and booting everything and just waiting on the stage while everything boots. Dude, I have had those moments, dog. I actually fired somebody. I'm not going to get into it because I'm going to be respectful about it.

Yeah. But it was this person who was, like, in charge of it. So, okay, I can sing, but everybody uses auto tune, man. Especially certain songs just in rap, like you turn the auto tune up. It is what it is. And there was this one song where I just liked having a little bit of auto tune on live because it wasn't really my key. Like I can sing in and it's so like E, the key of E I sing well in and C and blah, blah, blah. It was like some random C major sharp seven shit.

I don't even know how to explain. And I'm sitting at this piano and I'm playing for like 20,000 people. And I start singing and it's all like, it sounds like share. Do you believe in life after love? And I'm like, oh my God. And I get off the stage and I like go and basically fire this. Like on stage and I'm not like that and then let me also be fair dude I gave this person like five chances yeah they kind of messed this up like five times in a

row and they were just always on their phone and it was kind of annoying but anyway very sweet person just didn't work out so that's happened to me I've also been on stage oh dude somebody was telling me this story and I completely forgot it and I'm going to tell you now and I don't remember it I was doing something I think it was like college football or something like that where I was getting paid like a nice check to go and perform two songs on television, but then I was like, okay, well, two songs, so that means it's got to be clean,

so you can't curse. And I was like, no problem, but I curse like a fucking sailor. But contractually, and for the right amount of money, you better believe, I'll be like, no problem, kids, here we are. Gosh, darn it. Yeah, exactly.

Try rhyming something with that. I got to farm it. Anyway, so you're just a varmint. So I'm on stage, I'm doing my thing. I do the two songs. But after those two songs, I was set up to continue a show live for all the fans who actually came out to see me. So I was like, okay, cool.

So then I started doing it. And I'm like, fuck rap. I sound like an addict. What is semi-automatic who'd had it? Anybody to buck back? And I'm just like cursing. And then like they're flipping out. Like they're freaking out.

Like, you can't curse. You can't curse. And they're coming to me and all this other shit. And I get through like maybe two songs and they cut my fucking microphone off. Contractually, it was only for the two songs on television, which I did. And then what am I going to do? Edit myself for a bunch of grown. ass people at a rap show now.

Like, it doesn't really make any sense. But it's cool. I got paid. People were not upset at me. I was even like, they're telling me I can't cuss. Fuck that. It was just so, it was funny. You're like asking for it.

Yeah, but it was like a funny kind of rebellious thing. But it's just like, dude, I'm a grown-ass man. Everybody here's grown. It's not like it was a bunch of kids. It's not like the World Series Little League. It wasn't Sesame Street. Yeah, dude. Come on, man.

Yeah. It was just really funny. So that was crazy. Yeah, I've just had moments where like, for me, it's always the technical shit, dude. Like, I hate when I'm rapping, but there's feedback or the mic like keeps dropping out. Like, because you don't want to continue. There's a part of you that just legitimately doesn't want to go on. Dude, I remember being at this club and I got paid and I'm at this club and I just start rapping and the mic cuts out and it cuts out and it's off for like 10 seconds. And then

it cuts back on and then I start rapping again and I'm 20 seconds into song and it cuts off. And then I'm just standing there and it's so awkward and I'm in a club, which I don't even go to the club unless I'm paid to be there, which I was, and it just sucks. So sorry, long story short, couple stories short. I feel you, bro. You're actually a really good storyteller. And by the way, the book is a lot like this. Not where we go off on random tangents that's on me, but like, it's really animated and fun. I kind of do, though. There's tangents, but they make sense because you had an editor that was probably like, let's move that over there. For sure, 100%. Yeah, but it's well written and it's fun. Thank you. A couple more things, because I know you got to run, but I'll be as quick

I can. I don't know about you, but I'll be quick. We're cool. The 1-800 is the number for the suicide hotline. The song, anyway, is the number for the suicide hotline. And I'm wondering, you mentioned that got you kind of thinking about suicide and depression and things like that. When you write your lyrics, do you need to put yourself in the shoes of the person who's experience it is?

Like, did you have to put yourself in a position of somebody considering suicide in order to write lyrics that really hit the core of that track and that feeling? Yeah, very Daniel DeLewis, you know, it's like method rapping, right? You can take all this emotion and conviction. and you put it into a record, I'd be lying if I said I'd never had these intrusive thoughts before, and I think I utilized that. I utilized very dear and close friends who have also struggled with this. The biggest thing that inspired me, I rented a tour bused and I did a fan tour in 2005,

where I just went to my fans' houses and just showed up and just played them a new album that wasn't even out. Wow. I ate with their families and had dinner, and my security guard busted up his kneecap and had to go to the hospital on their trampoline after being like, I'm too big for this shit. Don't make me do this. Yeah, no, it's really crazy. Like somewhere in Ohio, like, why are you making me jump on a trampoline? It was like bum fuck Texas.

It was crazy. But anyway, so I did have to put myself in that kind of mental state. And the big thing for me, too, is like the first song that I had for the album, everybody, was 1-800. Back then it was just titled Suicide because I was just like, I just wanted to do a song about suicide. I don't know what it's going to be yet. And it ended up being the last record. I even made the beat and everything, but it was the last record I actually recorded because it was just so hard to put myself in that place. And I did, and it was difficult to do, but nothing compared to the people who are actually on that lifeline every single day talking to these people and making these dark thoughts kind of their every day or every evening.

It bleeds into your everything, especially when it becomes a worldwide hit song. Yeah. You know, and everywhere you go is suicide, suicide, death, death, like blood. Like, it's just, it's a really sick thing. But I, you know, I've taken a lot of time away from music. And I think I went from being really proud of the song to then being like, I don't want to perform this song anymore to now I'm like, wow, it's probably the biggest

accomplishment I've ever had in my life as far as message, awareness, and I'm happy I did it. Yeah, I think a lot of people are. But I understand how, you know, the extra bit of fame comes to you, you end up performing on, was it the VMAs on MTV? Was it people's choice? I always get those confused.

It was the VMAs, and that's the night that changed my life, for sure. You mentioned that if you go into public life wanting love and acceptance, you are fucked. All I wanted my whole life was to be famous and blow up and have people love my work and love me. And then it all happened. And all I wanted to do was crawl back into a hole and not be around anybody. That's a good lesson, man. That's a really good lesson. Because I think, like, Jim Carrey said something similar. Like, I want everybody to become rich and famous so they can find out that that's not the answer. It's similar to that.

It isn't the answer. You know what it is? It's like a true piece of knowledge or maturity. As a parent, as a friend, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, grandparent, you can give advice to somebody. And they can follow that. And I think they may, you know, if they're smart, follow that. But no matter how smart they are or mature, you may hope that they are, there's just some things you need to experience for yourself, you know, maybe a first love and a heartbreak. Yeah. And, you know, somebody can be like, bro, you're 17 or you're 19 or you're 20. And it's like, this isn't, you don't even know, dude. Like, yes, this is normal. But life goes on. You're going to find the person you're supposed to be Like, oh yeah, it's easy to say that

because I had my heart ripped out of my chest and it sucked and I thought I was gonna die in the corner drinking soda. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I thought. But time went on and as time goes on, like time really does heal all wounds, dog. Like, it's a real thing.

And so I think the average person who thinks that fame and money and notoriety and alkyets and all these things will make them happy doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. Yeah, everybody who has any notoriety Eddie or fame whatsoever who's come on that show has basically mentioned that's exact same thing. Yeah.

So if you don't believe it, believe it, because everybody everywhere who I've ever talked to has said pretty much the same thing. The only guy who's sort of jokingly said, and it wasn't to me, unfortunately, because he hasn't been on the show. The only guy was like, yeah, being famous is amazing, was Samuel L. Jackson. He's like, yeah, it's pretty awesome, you know, but even that was like on a talk show where it's like. No, but it is.

No, don't get me wrong. It is. I just think these people, myself, man. Like I was once broke. So I was like, oh man, if I had all this money and I'm famous and people love me and blah, blah, blah, because it's like you take regular everyday problems, but you have $20 million. You're like, that'd be awesome. But then it's like, no, because your everyday problems vanish.

They do and they don't. You're every day like, oh, damn, I can't pay my car bill this month. Like all that shit vanishes. But what comes with that is, damn, I have so much money and I'm so successful. well what now? I've actually hit that pinnacle and I put my whole worth and my self-worth into

if I just got here and then you get there and you're filled with fucking emptiness and there's people on the internet that are saying your baby's ugly and they hope you fucking kid dies and that you get cancer that your wife is an ugly whore piece of shit

and you just see this and you're getting it every single day constantly and every time you say something or you talk about how you feel then people are like well you're just fucking complain Where are you complaining? You're rich and famous.

And then you're like, oh, shit. Whether people can kind of understand that and get it maybe, that's what it is. And that's not even anything, bro. That's like the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, of course. I know you got to go in a second here, but you mentioned what social media does is it forces you to judge your own happiness relative to what everybody else has and what everybody else thinks.

And when you pass a certain level of fame or wealth, it's like nobody can relate. And it's like you're no longer allowed to be human. That's actually really hard psychologically, regardless of what people think about, well, if I had that money, I wouldn't have any problems. It's just not true. In closing, then, okay, so you didn't have parents, really. And then as you got more successful and older, you had all these new people around you because, you know, you're making money and you're making them money. I don't mean like hangers on. I mean, even like agents and stuff like that. Did you have any resentment creep in? Because it seems like, it's almost like, oh, where were y'all people who love me when I didn't have? have a number one record. Like, of course, if it's your lawyer or your agent, it's their job, but there's a part of your psychology that's just like, well, why do people care now?

You care because I'm making you successful. You care because you can buy a Mercedes because of me. Is there any resentment there, or do you just realize that that's the game? No, I never had resentment for anybody because actually everybody that works with me all came up with me, which is really amazing. But I was pissed off at my manager,

and I love my manager. We're best friends. But he would be like, come on, man, you've got to do this. you got professional obligations, bro. It's like, da-da-da-da-da. And I was just like, you know what? Fuck you.

And I remember telling him, I was like, dude, mind you, best manager ever, incredible. It's literally his job to push me to get money and do certain things and blah, blah, blah. But I'll never forget being like, why don't you come out on tour? I was like, I dare you. Come out on tour because I was like,

oh, I get it. You got business meetings and phone calls and emails and shit, and you're killing it, and you really are killing it. But why don't you come out on tour with me and do those same business calls and emails and juggle your personal life and your girlfriend and your parents, and for two hours a night while I'm on stage,

I want you to do cardio and jumping jacks and push-ups and don't stop. And then after that, you're going to get real fucked up on tequila because you kind of want to numb yourself after that and enjoy yourself. And then you're going to sleep on a tour bus for 18 hours on your day off because you have to travel halfway across the fucking country to go to this next show. And then guess what? You're going to do all that again, and you're going to do the cardio for two hours. You're going to do this and you're going to do that.

And then you're going to get lit and you're going to blah, blah, blah. and you're going to do it for 50 shows in a row. And then we're going to Europe. So I'm like, I dare you. And he was like, no, I'm good. Like, no, but still, it's 9 a.m. Don't be late. You're like, what?

Yeah, man, I admire that it's hard enough to do things from your own home. Now that we're all working from home, it's hard enough. So I can imagine how hard it is doing a tour like that. And look, the story must have been hard to write and put out there. You did it really well.

This is an awesome conversation. I really enjoyed it, man. thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Once again, I was just joking about bitches. Don't cancel me. Respect women. Nah, dude. Seriously, thank you so much. Anybody listening out there, I appreciate you guys for caring enough to hopefully still be listening. I hope you'll check out the book. If not, cool. This has been super fun for me, and that's the only reason I'm really honestly doing this, is to just kind of spread awareness about mental health and the respective women.

No, for real. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you for actually taking the time and actually reading the book. It means a lot. I've done a couple of these, and you can always tell when somebody reads the book, and the other person's like, so yeah, oh, Dasmo crack, okay, and I'm just like, yeah, no, you don't know what you're talking about. So thank you all. Thank you to your amazing listeners and fans. I would love to come back sometime. This has been actually one of the most fun interviews I've done a long time, and I really appreciate it. Yeah, same here, man. Look, anything I can do to help, let me know, and I know I've kept you for longer and your publicist is probably going to, like, punch me in the face if I ever see her in person. So. That's all good.

Shout out to Kat. Shout out to Simon & Schuster. Shout out to Stewart, my editor. Shout out to Tanner Colby, my collaborator, who helped me really see the vision on this. Shout out to my assistant, J.T. This is the Grammy speech I would have given if I actually won one. Shout out to my little Bobby.

Shout out to my beautiful baby and my wife. And shout out to all the people listening right now. Appreciate you. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer for another episode with a retired astronaut Chris Hadfield. I watched the first two people walk in the moon,

and I thought, wow, I'm going to grow up to be something. Why don't I grow up to be that? That's the coolest thing ever. It is purely the direct results of all of those little minute-by-minute decisions that I made since starting when I was a kid just turning 10. When I got the telephone call asking if I would like to be an astronaut, I was at the top of my profession. I was the top test pilot in the U.S. Navy as a Canadian.

And then to be selected as an astronauts, suddenly I'm a guy who knows nothing. I sit in my office and I'm like, I'm a complete imposter. I have zero skills right now. Whenever anybody has offered to teach me something for free, I've always taken them up on it. How are you getting ready for the major events in your life, the things that matter to you, the things that have consequences? Are you just sort of waving your hands and go, oh, it's probably not okay? or are you actually using the time available to get ready for it. Maybe it will turn out okay.

But if the stakes are high, to me, that's just not a gamble I willingly take. If at some point in life you think you know everything you need to know, then you're just in the process of diet. What astronauts do for a living is visualize failure, figuring out the next thing that's going to kill you, and then practice it over and over and over again, until we can beat that thing. We know how to deal with it.

Then you do a much better job and a more calm and comfortable way of doing it as well. You don't miss it. You're not overwhelmed by it. It's something you can do while thinking of something else. You notice how beautiful it is, how magnificent it is, how much fun it is. You're not just completely overwhelmed by the demands of the moment. For more on how Commander Chris Hadfield managed to stay focused on his dreams, starting at age nine, to become the first Canadian to walk in space, check out episode 408 of the Jordan Harbinger show. I loved this conversation. I found it interesting that we both started very, very early on something called Ustream, which I think is now Twitch.

And he did a lot of grassroot stuff, no label, he was indie, very similar to us. Now, he's a world famous rapper, and I'm still a podcast nerd, but I like it that way. I candidly, I find that to be an acceptable outcome. He was also hustling to promote on blogs and just too ignorant, in his own words here, too ignorant to know what he didn't know and going for it anyway. His manager knew so little about the music industry that it actually turned out to be an advantage. And the book describes some of that. And I can certainly identify with the whole stumbling back asswords into success at some level and being so ignorant that you didn't know what wasn't supposed to

work. So we did it and it ended up working. And some of that is luck, but some of that is not having the programming in there to talk ourselves out of trying something experimental, right? Everybody told me this wouldn't work, but I was too stubborn to listen. And by then it was too late. Off air, we actually talked a little bit about his first music deal. And he had some major imposter syndrome. He said, as soon as he signed the contract, this is a major record contract, right? He said, the deal's not really done. They can still back out. They can take this contract and shred it, and then we're back to square one, and all of our success really doesn't even matter. That's what was going through his head. And they were supposed to send him like 150 grand or

something like that, and he just kept checking his bank account every single day for the money and be like, they're not going to send it. We're going to, they're going to pull out. Finally, they deposit the money after him checking every day for like two weeks. So he goes from having $12 in his bank account to having like $135,000 in his bank account, just a small advance, right? So what does he do? He goes to Taco Bell. So he goes from food stamps to a six-figure bank balance, but how good was that Taco Bell? That must have been the best tasting friggin Taco Bell of his entire life.

He had a motto in the book where he'd say something like, awesome, keep it going, whenever he'd made some sort of achievement. And I like this, right? So he'd rent a Dope Mansion and he'd say, awesome, keep it going. He's sold out this giant venue and he got on a magazine cover. Awesome. Keep it going. This is important because I think a lot of people, when they're experiencing a little bit of success,

they will celebrate really early when they achieve something because they're afraid to keep going because it might get screwed up or they might screw it up or they have such a scarcity mindset. They'd rather almost rest on their laurels than take more risk and keep putting themselves out there. And that's really a dangerous mentality to have in any business or any endeavor because it can really cut short your potential in any career, right? It's not about being too proud too early. It's a defense mechanism, if you think about it, that premature celebration, that, oh, I got this.

That can be a defense mechanism. Fear of failure is what this really is. And I think it's, the awesome keep it going and just not celebrating too early is great. His hustle was real, though. 18-hour days, renting crappy cars, praying the shows are sold out so they didn't lose money on him. And he said in the book that he had some serious health issues before during and even after show. So he would puke up this green stuff from vaping. So if you're vaping, maybe slow down a little. He was throwing up blood. He was pissing out blood. I mean, just really gross. And of course, he's like 20-something. So he never sits back and asks himself, yeah, is this normal? Is this healthy? Because one, you're invincible. Two, you're successful for the first time in your

life and you don't want to screw it up. He says, I had to make this work. If I didn't, I was worthless and I would end up back in Maryland just like everyone else in my family. And he calls this level of hustle, this unhealthy level of hustle. He calls it mixtape mode. So you're just giving it all to your fans, right? You're like you're selling the mixtapes

out of the back of your car. You're connecting with the fans. You're burning the candle at both ends. Obviously, this is unsustainable. And it led to some pretty dark stuff, as you heard on the show. Even with his number one charting album, he was focused a lot on the negative.

You know, the negativity on the internet getting to him. And it's one of the reasons that he retired so young. That and he was loaded. So there's that. $24 million or whatever in the bank account also plays a little part in that. One of the reasons I chose him for this was what I like about him is that he doesn't use gangster talk or tough talk or symbols from gang life in his work. Instead, it's peace, love, and prosperity, which is a little corny, but I like that because this is everything his childhood was not. Peace, love, and prosperity. His childhood was the exact opposite.

I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. Links to his stuff, including the book, will be in the show notes. Please use our website links if you buy things from the guests. That does help support the show. Worksheets for the episodes are in the show notes. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of the interview on our YouTube channel, Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube.

Our Clips channel with stuff that doesn't make it to the show, highlights from interviews that you can't see anywhere else, is at Jordan Harbinger.com slash clips. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn. I'm also teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using the same systems, software, and tiny habits that I use every single day. That's our six-minute networking course.

It's free. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course is where you can find it. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. And most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, J. Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Milio Campo, Ian Baird,

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So please share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Share. know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts

and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me

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