The Jordan Harbinger Show - 579: Yeonmi Park | A North Korean Girl’s Journey to Freedom Part Two

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Yeonmi Park (@YeonmiParkNK) is a North Korean defector and activist whose harrowing experiences are chronicled in her book In Order to Live: A North Korean Girl's Journey to Freedom. [This is part two of a two-part episode. Catch up with part one here!] What We Discuss with Yeonmi Park: Why there's a black market for poop in North Korea. How the people of North Korea are kept isolated from the outside world to the extent that they use a different calendar, have never heard of Shakespeare, and don't even have words for "oppression" or "love." How North Korea's guilt-by-association policy can carry punishment for people who are within several generations of someone perceived as offensive to the regime. Why Yeonmi finds being on the North Korean regime's official kill list to be "liberating." How long it might take to watch Titanic in a country that only turns on the electricity for State holidays (and the ultimate penalty for getting caught doing so). And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/579 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy mad yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

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Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. I get up and I get beaten and I try to escape. And the only very unique thing with North Koreans, whenever you ask them, in their dream, is always North Korea. And that's the thing you never escape in your subconscious. You're there forever.

Like my mom, every night she's there. Every night I'm there. Like nobody escapes in your dream. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies, psychologists, even the occasional Russian chess grandmaster, four-star general, or former jihadi.

Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. Now, if you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, our starter packs are where you can do that. These are collections of your favorite episodes, organized by popular topics that help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash start to get started or to help somebody else get started. And I always appreciate it when you do that. Today, part two with Yonemi Park.

If you haven't heard part one, go back and grab it. She has escaped from North Korea. She's a popular online personality and activist right now. Her story is harrowing and incredible. And I think you're really going to enjoy it. If you haven't heard part one, again, go back and grab that. otherwise, here we go with Part 2 with Yonemi Park. And by the way, if you're wondering how I manage to book

all these great creators, authors, thinkers every week, it's because of my network. And I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty, how to build your own network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And most of the guests on our show, subscribe and contribute to the course. So come join us. You'll be in Smart Company where you belong. Now here's Part 2 with Yonemi Park.

You thought the leader could read your mind. I know that there's these self-criticism sessions as well. Well, we are kind of like, I guess it's kind of like Catholic confession where you air your, you air your own failings, but you also have to kind of narc on other people, right? Yeah, that's a difference. It's more like I think Chinese people or so during the cultural revolution, they denounce people. Right. Exactly the same thing.

Even children have to do it. This is where they completely teach you how to teach you that you don't matter. And make sure to, like, get dignity of human being gets rid of that at that point, right? you're not even a being anymore. Only reason you exist because of the Kim's. That is the only life purpose. So you write down the verses that Kim Jong-year said, which is maybe student's job is studying hard

and working hard for the party. But this week, based on his like, it's like a viable verses. We have the book. Bible verses, yeah. It's like, you know, that Kim said, I don't know, who said, maybe party wrote it for him, right?

Sure. And then he said this, but compared to his words, I was not faithful revolutionary. So dear leader, like for his merceness, he forgave me my sin. Now this is a difference. It's maybe Catholic Church you can do that too. Maybe God said this.

This week, I didn't do good job. But also the thing is, you can never say what I did the right. So it's only one direction. You always have to be a sinner. You always have to be guilty. You always have to feel grateful and sorry for being you. They make you feel like you are not worthy of anything, degrading you. After that, you have to pick somebody.

And that is called even kids. So entire week, Saturday, this self-criticism session coming in. So you have to look for people's fault because you cannot get away and not criticizing somebody. Oh, wow. So it's a real thing that you look at other people. So you'll only learn how to look at other people's behaviors, spying on them and their faults. So the distrust is programmed from the jump in your classmates, right? Because you won't say, oh, I didn't do my homework last night because I was watching.

watching something with my parents. It's like someone will tell on you and then you look bad in front of everyone. So you never should. Right. And you get punished. And if it, if you did anything actually bad, then you're in even worse trouble. So it's just finding any reason to denounce anyone for any reason, include yourself. And also it's like a kind of quota. You have to criticize somebody. So it's a real job to finding it. It's a real job. And how you spend the who's doing what? Who's doing what? What are they doing wrong? Because you have to do self-criticism with other people. Oh my gosh.

It's exhausting to think about. Imagine being in school, like middle school, high school is like six years program. But so during the 60 years, how many times do you think you're going to criticize somebody? Is it weekly? Yeah, so it's hundreds of times, thousands of times. But if they're artists and official every two days, because they think artists' minds are more vulnerable to change and corrupt by capitalists. Yeah, they're right.

Yeah. So they have to do every two days. Then you how many times you have to hate somebody and criticize your friend, your comrades? Sure. So that's how they make sure everybody hates each other. Everybody do not trust each other. Since there's no trust, you can't agree with your friend. Like, all right, today you complain about my dirty uniform tomorrow, complain about you.

You can't even make any kind of pain. Yeah. So when everybody's divided who wins, the party wins. The party wins, yeah. Yeah. Because the division is helping them. They do everything they could to divide every single one of you. And that's why I was so shocked when I came to America.

It's like, people are so trusting. Like, they are so trusting and, like, unbelievable how trusting these people are. I mean, talking about your feelings, you're a therapist, how do you trust? It's a complete based on trust, isn't it? Your therapist here, even if they aired your dirty laundry, people would just go, wow, that's really unprofessional. They wouldn't be like, oh, Yon Mi has trauma. That's terrible.

We're going to laugh at her. No, we would think the therapist is a terrible human for sharing that, right? It's the opposite, though. Yeah. Therapy is a little bit weird coming from a place where you're supposed to denounce and not have any secrets. It was weird. I don't think I'm honestly, I still don't think I can be completely honest with the therapist because I'm still have that trauma. But with friends, I'm becoming more like open. Just tell them how I fear. That has been amazing because in North Korea, you don't talk about how you

feel. No. You know, it's nobody else how you feel or what do you think. So it's a really new thing for me to talking about your feelings here. Yeah, that's a, it's got to be so hard to looking at a in North Korea versus a relationship here, you have no model for a healthy, like, marriage, for example. Zero. Zero. It's been very hard. Yeah.

Yeah. When you were married before, did you find it hard to share actual feelings and secrets with your ex-husband? Yeah, I think communication was the main issue. Yeah. It was very hard. Because if it's like, what do you think? And you're like, I have no opinion because, you know,

you're not used to having it. Or you'd never thought about it. Yeah. Things can bottle up, right, over time. Also, I think, you know, giving the benefit of that in North Korea. If somebody says anything, oh my God, you're reporting on me. You're something doing bad at me, right? But here in America, people really give you a benefit of that.

Yeah, we're supposed to. Sure. Not in politics, I feel like. Not on Twitter. Yeah. But everywhere else. Yeah, when it comes to personal relationship, people do in general. I think people are very charitable here when it comes to interpretation.

You said, oh, can I be a little bit later to the interview? I didn't think, oh, she doesn't want to do it. Right. Right. Okay. She's got a lunch. It's far away. I don't know.

Yeah, that's interesting. You're right. We are as a culture. And in fact, it's almost a virtue here to trust people. Yeah. They wins. When you trust, everybody wins. Right.

And not the dictators, though. They lose. Right. They lose. They want you to not to. That's why it's so scary now in America's house. And everything flipping is just so unbelievably scary. What do you think of China heading more towards authoritarianism, too?

I mean, CCP has never been kind of like a global leader in human rights, but it's definitely getting worse. I mean, China at this point, they don't even need a human source to report on them. They got the facial recognition. They got social credit system. So while you write online, you know, while you throw on the street, the traffic lights that you don't obey, you know, how you park, everything, how you

spend, what you spend on, what you watch, they calculate all your score already for you. So in a way, China is more like, it's not a brave new world. In a way, like, if somebody asking me, would you choose? George George was 1984 or Brave World, I would choose a brave word. I'm so sorry. Rather be dumb and happy and be fed and healthy, right? Because I know what it feels like opposite. I mean, there's, of course, I want to be free and suffering like what we are right now. But China is, it's not like becoming a brave new world. They are in a way like 84, like Big Brother. And I don't think that regime's ever going to make you want to happy and take care of you. No, I mean, I study Chinese on

line. And my teachers have told me things. I'll ask him about the social credit score. Often they don't want to talk about it. But if I, you know, you develop a little rapport with somebody, they told me that one of their colleagues who is a man, when you use WeChat, which is like their WhatsApp version, it'll say underneath his profile photo, like this person does not pay his debts or something. And his social credit score is low. I forget the exact phrase. But basically, like, imagine I'm send to you a text message like, all right, we're ready for you now. And below my profile photo, It says like, this guy never pays his friends back and isn't allowed to fly on airplanes. It's so creepy.

Right? And you're just like, do I want to do this interview? Jordan's not allowed to fly because he's a bad Parker. Yeah. I mean, it's just unbelievable, like how this world is changing so fast. We thought that democracy was winning. The freedom was winning. Yeah.

Apparently not. No, apparently not. Yeah. Yikes. Okay. I think a lot of people are wondering how you ended up in the United States, right? Because you can't just walk out of North Korea very easily. In fact, now it's almost impossible now.

You don't hear about people escaping now because the border has been fortified by China and North Korea, from what I understand. Yeah, North Korea literally put, the country cannot afford electricity, puts the highly electrified wire fences, entire border of North Korea. So the entire country became a consensurate camp. Not only that, they put the machine, I mean, with the machine guns, with the guards, every 10 meters. Every 10 meters. On top of that, they bury the landmines. Oh, that's really extreme.

Yeah. When I was in China a few years ago in Dendong, which I mentioned earlier, we took a boat trip onto that river, and the captain was like, it's all Chinese people and then me and my friend, and they were like, don't take pictures of the North Korean guards who are stationed on the water's edge because they'll get aggressive. It's a Chinese tour. Nobody listens to anybody.

So these old Chinese people are raising up their camera, and we saw the North Korean guys doing like waving us off. And finally, one got so pissed, he raised up his rifle and aimed it right at the boat. And all those Chinese people just started laughing. And me and my friend were like, oh, my God, we're going to die. We're going to die. And the boat captain comes on and he's yelling in Chinese, you know. And I said, what's he yelling?

And he said, oh, something about don't take photos. These guys have no sense of humor on the North Korean border. These guys are not going to play around. I mean, they captured a lot of American journalists. They were at the border and then doing investigation on North Korea. They came across the border and then captured them, sent back to North Korea and put them in the prison. And Clinton had to go and rescue them eventually. Oh, yeah, wasn't that Lisa Ling's sister?

Yeah. She said, though, she was trying to run across the river or something like that. She wasn't at the North Korean side. Oh, she wasn't? She was on the Chinese side. Oh, that's even pretty scary. That's when the guards, yeah. Wow, I didn't know that.

I thought she had sort of like screwed around by going over there to take photos. There was a guy who was like Robert Park, one of the missionaries. He thought he wanted to bring a Gatskaspare to North Korea. So he walked over from Nando to North Korea with a bivir in his hand. Oh, that's horrible. And then they tortured him to the point where he cannot function as a man. And he tried to come back suicide many times afterwards. There's a guy who used to listen to my show named Kenneth Bay.

Do you know that guy? Oh, yeah, the Canadian. Yeah, so he was in prison for like a dozen years or something like that for leaving Bibles around in hotels. It's just the country is extreme, as we've discussed here. So the border's more fortified now. I don't want to get too tied down to that. How do most people escape in the past?

How did most people escape from North Korea? Most people are escaping in the 90s when the great famine began. So that's when the regime or so, Kim Jong-Dian, didn't. actually really care. I mean, if they don't want to stay here, why would you not let them, like, go, right? So he's like, okay, let them go. And he was fine with that. But then he realized these people did not just only go to China, they go to South Korea, they go to America, they go to other countries. They became way, what they thought they're exposing us now. Right. That's how North Queensland defect came out and giving the testament to the U.S., the Department, the White

House. Yeah, doing what you're doing. Right, right. So they were, like, exposing the regime. So now North Korea is keep condemned by the UN about the human rights situation. So now they're like, okay, no, we cannot let the defectors escape anymore. And there's North Koreans when they go, they don't just escape. They go and they make money and send the money back to their family members. Nobody in North Korea escaped saying, I'm going to have a good life myself. They escape because they can sacrifice themselves and make money and send it back to North Korea and their family members. So then when they send money, they don't just get money.

They get information. Right. And that is where, like, the biggest killer for the regime, like, their lie is being exposed. Right, of course, because if I escape from North Korea and I'm a waiter in South Korea and I'm sending back the annual salary that my family makes every month and it's only part of my income and I have a low-level job, people start to go, wait a minute. So he works at a restaurant in South Korea and he's basically a millionaire compared to how we are. We got to get out of here, right? That's not good. And then word travels fast.

Exactly. Like, how come that family bought, you know, has a car now or whatever, right? It's a whole thing. Yeah. So that's really changed the system, so they stopped the defection. So eventually, they started putting more pressure on the border. But when Kim Jong-un took over, oh, my God. I mean, how can it worsen his father?

But he was a lot worse, apparently. It's a lot of evil. So how did you escape from the DPRK? I think a lot of people, by the way, if I say North Korea or DPRK, does it matter? It matters. It matters. Because the DPRK is a democratic people. Right.

It's a joke of a name. Yeah. And that's what North Korea wants to be. be cold. Oh, okay. Well, then screw them. North Korea. North Korea. So, I mean, I don't really care but when it comes to that, I think that I don't want to respect the regime at all. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So I crossed a frozen river from North Korea to China. And that was actually right before the wire fences went up. So I got very lucky. Yeah. Charles Rue told me he basically swam through a river and they were shooting at him, but they probably either didn't have enough bullets or they couldn't

see him. Yeah. And so he made it out as well. Now it seems to impossible. No. And also when you go to China, Chinese also border is very secure. Like back then, they were like, okay, there are poor people coming over. Maybe we give them some food and then they're going to go back, right? Usually they did. They go to China. When North Koreans escape from North Korea, we are not like Syrian or like Mexican refugees. There's a democracy somewhere that we want to go where the freedom is, right? We're like, we're starving. So we just want to go somewhere that they give us food. And if we get food, we want to go back to. of homeland. So a lot of North Koreans would eat and go to China, begged food and come home

and feed their family members and their friends. And China had no problem with it, but then they also saw how North Korean women were going after and then started condemning the human trafficking that they face. So China also, North Korea complained to them. This is our national security issue. If you let the North Koreans go out, it hurts us. So can you catch themselves back? So China wants a buffer state between South Korea. and the United States presence in South Korea, and North Korea is that buffer state. And also, I think there's an,

tell me if you agree with this, there's an element of the Chinese Communist Party saying, hey, you think we're terrible, but at least we're not North Korea. Look how bad it is over there. And as long as that regime exists, they can sort of say, like, we're the only ones who can control them.

But that's the thing. They are using as a leverage with the USA because North Korea is only solved by China. Right. North Korea only exists because of China. Sure. Yeah. Like Kim Jong cannot exist without access.

So when the U.S. want to discuss about North Korea's threat, they have to go back to Chinese. So that's why they are using it as a leverage, diplomatic right leverage that is. It's so sociopathic to me that there are politicians going, we're just going to let all these people suffer because it keeps this guy in power, which keeps us from having to worry about other issues. Yeah. It's so crazy to me that that even is, it just sort of shows you like how much bullshit we tell ourselves about caring about the integrity of people, like, human rights. I mean, it's just pure

nonsense. It's laughable. Yeah. It's just a joke. It's pure not. Like, we can see the concentration camps. We know that there are people in there that are miserable. We have countless accounts of this. And it's like, oh, well, we'll talk about it again, maybe later. Yeah, I mean, Kim Jong-un this year said, like, 11 millions of his population are severely managed. He's not even bothered to lie at this point. He used to lie. Like, oh, look at us. We're a happy, strong country. Like, this years like, yeah, they're starving, so what? Wow. Exactly. It's like, yeah, so what? No accountability at all anymore. Yeah, not that they're ever really much. Right. No, yeah, no pretense. So you don't have to pretend anymore. Because what can you do? We got the nukes. We have the power.

So what can you do? My God. How did you get the idea to escape? Was it just you were hungry? I was hungry. And then if you see North Korea and night from the satellite picture, it's like the darkest place in the world. It got no electricity. So in the border, town, I was looking at Chinese side and they had the lights coming out. And they had a high road, like ways where cars going by. So we also had the rumors in North Korea saying that China dogs eat rice. Like so Kim Ilson promised us that I'm going to make sure that my people are going to eat white rice with like the meat stew. A meat stew. Yeah. So all North Korean wanted all their life and dying for the revolution was eat the white rice and the

do. It wasn't like if we want to get private jet. Yeah, the bar is pretty low. Very, very low, right? Any country in, like, some southern East Asia, they can feed all these people. Yeah. Chicken and, like, rice. That's, like, nothing. And that's what we promised. And that's, the communist cannot achieve that dream at all. They're so poor. In North Korea, so we heard that, like, dogs eat white rice in China. And I thought, like, the most bizarre thing I've ever heard. How owner there's a place that dog is rice, right? Right. Like, how can that be?

How can that be? It's like almost like somebody telling you, oh, their aliens came and took you, and then they, you know, they come visit you every night. Like that kind of most absurd thing you hear. Right. Like, why would you feed a dog rice? It just doesn't compute. Yeah.

No. I mean, in North Korea, dogs eat poop, literally. That's how they survive. And then people try and steal it from them to get their poop quota, as you mentioned. Yeah. My gosh. So you're hungry and you just say, hey, look, if they've got electricity and cars, they probably have food, right?

That's right, though. I guess maybe there's a food, but it's like I was watching this documentary there about like 9-11. There were people who were jumping out of that building. Right. Exactly that situation. I don't know if I jump out.

There is a life for me. But what can you do? The burning is burning. And I'm burning like you have no way out. So you got to jump and see what happens. That's how North Koreans do it. That's how you felt. I might die doing this,

but I'm definitely going to die hungry here. Yeah, I mean, there's no chance of me surviving in that country if I didn't escape. So why don't I just jump and see what happens? Wow. And so how did you hatch the plan? I had an older sister. I was 13 and I had a sister who was 16 in 2007. She escaped first a few days before me and she left me a note saying, go find this lady.

She's going to help you. So I went to her with my mom and then she said like, yeah, I can help you to go to China. But I'm so desperate. It was no point of me even asking, why are you helping me? Right. And also, if you already don't trust anyone, this is a desperate sort of Hail Mary move anyways.

Yeah. So why bother getting the details? Yeah, it doesn't matter. Even she kills me. I'm dead anyway. Like, it didn't occur to me. I had to ask why are you helping me. So because you're so desperate.

Like, whatever thing I get you out, you want to get out. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Yonmi Park. We'll be right back. Thanks so much for listening to and supporting this show. Your support of our advertisers is what keeps the lights on around here. We take all those discount codes and special URLs and we put them all in one place so you don't

have to memorize them. You can check out all the sponsors for yourself at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support us. Jordanharbinger.com slash deals is where that is. And don't forget, we've got worksheets for many episodes. If you want some of the drills and exercises talked about during the show in one easy place. That link is in the show notes. Jordan Harbinger.com slash podcast is where you can find it. Now, back to Yonmi Park. You end up being trafficked and sold in China. And the whole story is in the

book, by the way, we'll link in the show notes. I'm not going to make you go through it again, because you do talk about it a lot in other shows as well. But this situation is by all accounts horrifying and harrowing and you end up having to sell your own mother for food. It's just like the sneak preview is it's some of the most terrible things that you can imagine happening and it happens over and over and over. And the people that you meet are all universally exploiting you and everyone who they come into contact with. This is like the underbelly of sort of Chinese mafia human trafficking, right? So how do you eventually get away from that situation? So when North Korean women go to China, because of the one child policy, right now there are 40 million men cannot find women, especially in the rural areas, and that numbers keep going up.

So women being sold into four different places. One is human trafficking is where you sort to a man in the village who have a disability or crazy or whatever it is. So sometimes they buy one girl and rotate entire town or rot their entire brothers in their family. Oh, wow. So you're basically a sex slave at that point, not like a regular wife. No, no, you're not a wife. They watch you when you go to bathroom because they don't want you to run away. So that's one.

Second place, we are the prostitian. They put you in all these brothers get raped like 20 times a day. And then women's refuse so they give you drug. So they make you become drug addict. So women just do it because they want a drug. So you have get raped 20, 30 times a day in these like brothers. Third is where. you go to organ harvesting.

China's the biggest expert of organs. Yeah, I did a whole show about this. Yeah. So they also use North Koreans to scare them and take the organs out. The last place is a chat room where these brokers put in a setting on this facility where they locked the door

and putting these girls in front of the cam. And the customers are South Koreans and then show their biosex cam. So among the four, why would you choose? Like all jokes aside, I would obviously choose the cam girl option because at least I'm not getting touched by... Touched.

It actually gets raped by people. Nobody comes to your room, right? You just show them your body. So I chose that. I initially I was sold by a man. I was raped and then at the end of the journey, I was finally able to go to chat room. There I heard about South Korea. And I heard that there is a way out of China.

But you already knew South Korea existed, right? But not like the Hanminguk, like Nams Joseon, like southern of North Korea. They are fighting the language so much. So Jocon is Korea, like, So South Korea, they call North Korea, like, just like a north of Korea. Okay. South Korea, but their name is DeHanmingk. And we call them, like, south of North Korea.

Really? So North Korea just calls South Korea Southern North Korea. Yeah. That's ridiculous. And North Korea, South Korea calls them like Northern South Korea. Oh, gosh. So the language difference was huge. And then I did not know that I was a North Korean.

They said, I did, in North Korea, told me I'm a Jocon. Did you hear the Jocon? Yeah, I've heard that word. Yeah, so Jocon is what we knew of. So South Korea didn't have a name Jocon at all. It has like Dehambingo. It's like, what the heck is Dehambunuch, right? I did not that was like our southern part of North Korea was.

And then I was talking to these people and it's like, I'm from Dehambingo. What is Dehambingo? And then we had a defector friend who was working in the chat too. And she said, I know the missionaries. And then if you go study Bible with them and then they're going to help us to escape South Korea. By then, I was 15 years old. 15. Yeah. So I was there in two years in China. Two years. Two years of unspeakable sort of treatment and then Bible study. And this is your introduction to sex, right? You said before you had no idea the concept of sex until your mother was

sexually assaulted essentially right in front of you. And then that became your daily existence for those few years. So you're doing this Bible study with the missionaries and then how do they prepare you to escape? Like, what's their plan? Pray and fasting. Pray and fast. Did you tell them you already spent your life fasting and it didn't help? Yeah. A lot of fasting and praying and memorizing the vibal verses.

So there's no practical training for like, here's how you're going to escape. No, they don't give you physical training. They don't give you gear. They don't give you the right clothing. You need a miracle to do it, because you are going to go cross the gobi desert into Mongolia from China in the minus 40 degrees. You're going to cross the gobi desert. on foot in negative 40 degree and just hope that you end up in Mongolia. Yeah.

And then we discovered by human beings in the middle of the Gobby Desert. What kind of plan is that? So your survivor rate is very low, like 99% you are not going to make it. Oh, my gosh. And you're going to get caught by soldiers, so you need a miracle. That's why they make you pray and truly, like, waiting for God's assigned to go. I know you help people escape now, and I assume you have a better, slightly better plan. Oh, we don't use zero.

We use cars and transport them to Thailand. That sounds like a good idea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but we didn't have money. These people, we have to use money to transport them, bribe them. But going to Mongolia, you don't need a broker. They just give you a compass. Why don't you walk, follow the north, like the west part,

and then cross eight wire fences. And hopefully that's going to be Mongolia or something. That is just mind-blowing. So you're crossing the Gobi Desert. How long does it take? It only took one day. One day. We chose the coldest time of the year.

So the guards would think, like, who's going to be crazy enough to... Because other times, the security is so tight. I mean, there are guards in China preventing nobody can escape. They're going to shoot you. So if you choose the coldest time, then even though it's very high, secure, the tight border, that people think, oh, nobody's crazy enough to cross right now. Yeah, they're watching movies and smoking inside. It's so freezing.

They don't want to go outside even themselves. So we chose that time. And then we cross one day. But the hardest thing in the desert is that you don't know if you're going straight or backwards on the side or circle. Because nothing tells you, indicate you you're going forward. You just have a compass and you're like, I hope this thing works. Just a vat is in the middle of the ocean. Right.

Nothing tells you where you're going. There's no landmarks on the horizon. Nothing. So that was like where I shocked. I'm not sure if I just keep going circle and circle and out. We did it rumors where some defectors do that. Go days and circling the same thing again, again, come back to the same spot. So when we go, like, okay, let's leave our stuff here.

So when we come back, maybe we came back here. Yeah. That's how we went, moved along, leaving some stuff and knowing we've been here. Thankfully, we only got discovered next day by Mongolian soldiers. So the Mongolian soldiers are used to seeing North Koreans crossing the border over these wire fences. So then is it a warm welcome or is it kind of like you just get arrested? They use a gun, like put your hands up, right? You cross the border illegally.

So it doesn't matter you're a child or not. And then they told us they're going to send us to China back to and then send to North Korea. Which they are not really going to do. They have done that. They have done that. Because it's so inconvenient for them to go back to base, call the top people, getting South Korea. So much work for them. So it's just if they can hide.

I mean, usually South Chinese soldiers don't even bother the terrorists to shoot them all. And the animals come eat you. They just shoot you. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. In the border, it's a shoot to kill older. They don't bother to arrest you. You got to shoot them if you see any foreign object there.

So they just don't want to be bothered. Too much work for them. Too much paperwork they have to fill out when we caught them, how we caught them, right? So they just shoot you. And then like animals are going to do the job for them. That's awful. Okay. So obviously that didn't happen to you.

You got taken in by Mongolian military board events. Yeah, the border guards. And then they said they were going to send us back. So we all going to kill ourselves, right? Your plan was to kill yourself. Oh, I mean. North Koreans, it's like the Jewish people when there was a Holocaust. We all right to die when we get caught.

And then they eventually swayed and helped us to go to South Korea. The thing that I don't understand and that I can't quite wrap my mind around is they've seen refugees come across the border over and over. It's not like this is the first time they've seen it. I don't know why they can't have a plan for this or they're saying, oh, we're going to send you back. I mean, they must know that what they're doing is heartless and cruel. They just don't care.

Yeah, I mean, for them, it's like it's fun. It's so fun for seeing people begging for their life and so that's bad. That's scary. That's the thing. Human nature is horrible. When humans are not being educated and civilized, you can become barbarians. And this is the thing about human nature that, you know, people, not the special people became the guards in the consensual camp during the Nazi Germany.

No more people did that. And I think that's why we need to aware of our nature. Kids were just never knew what compassion was. I guess. So they just, it was really fun for them and we didn't get cared about one of my friend, mom's friend, she swallowed her peers. And then they after had to take her to hospital and then she never came back fully. Because she thought they were going to send her back. Yeah, because that's what they said. Right. That's just evil. Yeah. What separates you, someone who escaped North Korea versus somebody who decides to stay?

What do you think the difference is? Somebody, if they can afford to staying behind you, They were not as desperate as me. For me, was if I didn't escape, I would not even make a few more days there because I just didn't have food. So you weren't thinking like freedom, you're just thinking rice, food, food, anything. Yeah. Wow. Getting starved is worse than being raped. The worst torture is being starved because if you don't eat, you die.

And before you die from starvation, you hallucinate. You lose your mind. That's how most undignified way of dying from starvation. That's why cannibalism happening in North Korea because they hallucinate. Cannibalism. Yeah. So some mothers eat their children because they thought their children were dogs because they go crazy when you don't eat. And then they wake up and then like, what happened to my child?

And then they just hate it. It's the real stories. You're getting these stories, I assume, through the network of other defectors. It's a United Nations document at the COI report. And it's based on a true story. There was a director made a movie too. And in North Korea, when we were. But there, we are actually the policeman was saying there was a he follows some mom was holding

their baby, going near the river and then making a fire and then boiling the water. And then she was born her baby there. So policemen call. So these things you hear when you're North Korea. So, I mean, we hear like just don't go buy the meat at that. In the blog market, there's somebody selling meat very cheap price. And then, like, we all know, like, what they're selling. I mean, you can tell by the bones also in the meat if it's...

Yeah, I mean, thankfully, I was so poor that we couldn't afford the meat, so we didn't have to go there. Wow. Yeah, so people are selling, like, their own children's meat in the market to survive. A lot of people die from starvation, so you can just grab them, like, their bodies flooding on the rivers. And the train station, when you go, there are tons of bodies stacked, so they can just get them and sell the bones and make the broth, right? What's up with the dead bodies at the train station? Because I've seen dead bodies in North Korea. And the weirdest part is, I'll see it.

And 15 other people will see it. And our guides will say, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, they're pretending that they can't see it. Wow. Yeah. On the road and the train station. Because in North Korea, train from one city to the other city. In South Korea, it takes months sometimes.

Because electricity, you have to push your train. You have to push the train? Yeah. I mean, that's not possible. How do you do that? You do? Hundreds of thousands of people come. I'm going to show you the picture later after this.

Yeah. What that you can use in the video if you want to what it looks like. Yeah, we'll link it in the show notes if you want to just text it to me after that. Yeah, you can push the train. I guess if there's hundreds of people pushing the back of a train, it'll move a little bit. That's wild, though. I mean, you're not going up a hill, that's for sure. Sometimes, yeah, there's here that train cannot go.

It literally is so low. Then people have to go help the train out. This is just unfreaking believe. I mean, this, you got to think, if you're running that, that country, you know that it's a horrible place and you've done nothing to improve the situation. Do you think Kim Jong-un is evil himself or is he just part of this system that's set up by his father and grandfather and he's trapped? Because he's got to know what's going on.

He went to school in Switzerland. Exactly. So he knows exactly what's going. He knows what human rights is. Yeah. How human is supposed to be treated. But that's why it's pure evil. Yeah.

Like he's not brainwashed. He has seen the real world. So you cannot say that like he was brainwashed. He has no choice. No, he has seen the world. The elites of North Korea study, they go shopping in Paris, literally. They go ski in Switzerland. I mean, they go to the best places in the world and travel and study.

They live like the kings and queens, and Kim Jong-un has his own pleasure squad. What is the pleasure squad? Because I've read about this, and it's a pervy question, so pardon me, but people are curious about this. So pleasure squad is every year, the officials have to meet their quota again. Everything is caught out, the order from the party. Every region have to submit a girl who is a virgin and who is pretty and meet all government's data. Like the major height, look, all of it, right? And also family backgrounds.

So each year they collect all the girls from entire country. And only the ones pretty enough and the good backgrounds and the virgins going to Pyongyang. From there, they also select giving Kim Jong-un the picture. Like who do you want this year? So he picks 25 for a year. Each year he gets only 25. I mean, like, only 25 women, girlfriends, like, that's a lot. Yeah, it seems like a lot, especially for a guy who Kim Jong-un, not in a great shape,

and his father was even worse shape. I mean, these are old dudes. They're probably not, well, I won't go there. Yes, and then other girls going to other type of fishers. Then they divide these girls into different groups, like satisfaction group. It's the sex group. The happiness group is a massage group. Third group is, like, health care.

They give him the, like, you know, other health issues. So all these girls are being trained for that. And their prime age is from 16 or 17 to 20 to 23. What do the parents think? Do they know that this is what's happening? Or are they like, oh, you're going to learn how to dance or something? It's a most glorious thing that you're going to serve your nation. But not only that, the North Koreans is that when you go, I mean, you don't get paid, but you get fed.

If you fed three times a day in North Korea, you are the most privileged person in America. I mean, in there. So in America, all these people get fed and it's talking about how hard is. I don't get it. Oh, you mean all of us are fat because we're eating too much and we can't stop? No, here in America, to be happy, it takes a lot more. Oh, sure, yeah. But in North Korea, being fat is the biggest privilege you can get in your life.

So when these girls go there, they're going to be fat, so happy. I thought you said fat. Oh, no, no. Fed. Okay. Because it must be weird coming from, look, you're in the United States, you look around, you're in the Midwest here in Chicago. There's a lot of fat people around, and I can't lose weight, I can't stop eating.

eating. I mean, that's got to be kind of, that must have been jarring to see when you arrived here. I did have some, like, a sympathetic issue in the beginning coming to America, right? Like, I just never knew having too much could be a problem. Right. Like, I just never knew when the world is, like, diet. In North Korea, the most desired man is Kim Jong on like big belly and bald hair. That means if you are bored, you're eating fat food or something. Okay. And if a big belly, you have a status. You have very powerful because most of people are all starving. And in America now they're talking about in South Korea to obsess with diet. Yeah.

And then what the heck is diet, right? And here also people say, like, food is a problem. There's too much. The obesity is killing us. I'm like, just don't eat. Nobody forcing it to eat here. Oh, my gosh. I know.

It's interesting. It's all about perspective. So this squad of girls, they're young, and then they end up doing this until they're of marriage age or something? Yeah. And then they just go back home. No, because they have seen too much. So the regime, they are like when they take your daughter, it's like you gave it to your nation.

So don't ever look them back. So these girls don't ever reach out to their parents ever gain in their lifetime. So when you take this curse and then when they like what we say graduate, then they match them with the guards who guard Kim Jong-un, guard the top of elites, guard people. Those guys also see a lot. So they are forever sealed from the public. And then they marry, the regime make them marry each other. Oh, what a miserable existence. Yeah.

You don't even choose your partner, just give you the, like, it's just being chosen, and then you get grouped, then marry, and then forever, you cannot talk about what you have seen and did. Yeah. So you never see your family again. Never. You don't even hear back from them ever again. I've heard that when people escape their extended family. I mean, we talked about the three generations, eight generations. So if someone escapes or is it a defector, what happens to their family in North Korea?

Depending on the status of your family. Okay. So also the punishment was all. a lot lower during the Kim Jong-il time, the second Kim. I told him, Kim Jong-y didn't really care in the beginning, that people escaped in the 90s. They're like, oh, if they don't like it, just go, let them go. Why do we bother, right?

And then, so back then, like, my family was also lower class, and nobody, I mean, they got, like, interrogated and tortured a little bit in the beginning, but they all got sent free. A lot of North Korean defectors, like, now in America, a very low number. Over only 200 North Koreans made it to America during the last or was like 80 years. Really? Yeah. 200. 207 or something like that. And so, America doesn't want a lot of North Koreans to come either. So. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah. They don't like no North Korean refugees that much. I had to come here as a South Korean.

Oh, I see. I get all the working visit. Like, it's exactly what South is impossible to come to America if you're South Korean. So North Koreans usually go to South Korea. So now there are 33,000 North Koreans made it to South Korea during the last like 80 years. And so most of them are not high class. But the top class when they do the family, like three to eight generations, does get like punished. So is this a complex issue for you? Like, do you know what happened to your family back in North Korea?

Yeah. So when I spoke out against the regime in 2014, that's when they use all my families, including my neighbors, to denounce me. And it's videos on the YouTube. And then they got all disappeared. I actually have those people in the network that I use to get information out. They all got vanished. So those people are probably dead then?

Most likely, yeah. That has to be a complex issue for you. That was the thing like when I was speaking. I knew I was risking my life. But I really didn't think that the regime was going to be threatened by 13 years old, who escaped North Korea, who does not even have a military like secret. All I was saying is what you see on the Google satellite pictures with concentration camps and starvation that's well documented by the UN.

So I thought, like, what am I revealing that is new? I did not know. But because you do not obey, that's the treason, right? You escaped. This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Yonemi Park. We'll be right back. And now for the conclusion of our episode with Yonemi Park. Do you feel a sense of duty to these people to spread the message far and wide?

because they essentially have made a sacrifice, unwilling sacrifice. I mean, that's the thing. Freedom is not free. I mean, pay the immense price to have this voice. And I don't know when I'm going to get killed. But the thing is, there are so many people dying to be free, and freedom is not free. I think that we see that. Like, it's impossible.

It's so hard to be free from the dictator. Is there anything that they say in North Korea about the West or about America that you, that turned out to be true? Oh, well, yeah, one thing was true was when I was in San Francisco, they said like the America is filled with homeless. I mean, back then, I mean, in North school, you don't even have the freedom to be homeless. You go to prison if you want to be homeless, but you have to work for the party. But it was true when I came to America, there's so much freedom. Just everybody can decide to be homeless and nobody arresting you for that. Yeah.

So I was like, wow, I guess it was true. But then I did a volunteering work at the homeless, like, shelter. I mean, they had a refrigerator. They had a sodas in there. Sure, yeah. They had a mattress in their bunker beds, right? And they had electricity. So I was thinking, why, even homeless lives much better than North Korea elite's life.

Yeah, that's true. Internet on your phone. And they have, like, computers in the shelter. Like, what? They have internet. So that was the only thing. And the other thing was they said, like, Americans don't even have water, so they eat snow. I've seen this same propaganda film, but they say,

you're limited to one cup of snow per day. Yeah. I saw that in North Korea. Then let's watch that as a stupid way. There are no birds in America because people eat the birds. They say that about the United States. Yeah. Even though that's totally...

It's in North Korea, but now I come and there's so many pigeons. If you see one pigeon in North Korea, everybody go after the vision, right? You never see them ever again. Yeah. So there's really no birds in North Korea. We all catch them eat. In America, so many birds. Yeah.

I mean, there's people complain about the birds. Even in New York, oh, there's stupid pigeons everywhere. In some ways, nobody eats them. Wow. So you thought white people were cold-blooded as well, right? Like, literally. Yeah, I mean, they say when they're Americans, we don't think Americans are like American-Mexicans or Hispanic or, like, African-Americans.

We don't know. Like, there's an American, which is one type. Because they don't teach us about race. Right. So I didn't even know that I was Asian. So how do I know there are different race in America? Right. So they draw the painting for you.

Yeah, the Americans have these giant nose. Big gigantic nose. green eyes. And they go to USA and they look like monsters. And they say they're like snakes, cold-blooded. They don't even have a heart. They're like monsters, pure monsters. So when I came to America, I was like really shocked. Yeah. I mean, at that point, you realized they'd lied to you about everything else. So that, right? Yeah. I mean, by then. But until though, until I were the animal found by Georgia-O-W, it was really hard. Like, how do I trust again? Because, I mean, they told me everything that I believed was a lie.

Right. Then I'm like, so how do I know what you're telling me is not a lie? That's a valid point. It's like the matrix, right? It's like you just don't know. Right, the matrix. Yeah, it's like, you just don't know. Am I in the thing or not, right?

Right, right. So it was, I had that few years of that time where I couldn't trust. Yeah, that would be really difficult to come here and make friends while trying to also reconcile that maybe these are reptile people with cold blood or that you're not sure if they're lying to you now and you're just caught in another version of the Matrix, like you said. Yeah. Do you miss anything about North Korea? Like some of your friends and family, sure, but is there anything, any element of the lifestyle or the country that you miss? Other than the people, I don't miss, though, how close I was to other people in the community. Like, we say, well,

it's not a good thing, but it's very creepy that I even know how many chopsticks and spoons my neighbor's had. Like, that's how close we were. Really? Even though there was no trust. Yeah, but like we go over and hang out. But we don't talk about politics. You don't talk about those things. But like talking about, you know, crops or your kids, like those things. Crops? Yeah. That's a very North Korean topic, right?

How do crops look at? Jeez. That's what we talk about. Yeah. And nobody has a device. So everybody is looking at each other's eyes. Yeah. But here, like, I have no clue who's my neighbor is.

No. When you love your Instagram, though, now, I see. I think, yeah. So this, well, I do try to, like, control that. though. I know what the social media is like does is really horrible. So I use it to try to raise awareness. Yeah. I'm messing with course. I follow you on there right now. No, no. But you do a good job of balancing it. Oh, thank you. Yeah. It's very tempting. And it's so hard. I feel like I didn't understand that even when I was living in New York, I was going to university there. A lot of my friends

are like working in finance. It's like Manhattan, right? In the consulting, investment bankers, all very successful. I like biggest law firms in the world. And like, at least, at least, 60 to 80% of them go to therapy. And then they were like, you need to go to therapy because you're traumatized. It's like, what do you mean trauma? Right. And then it was really weird in the beginning. Why does these people are not happy? They're living on the top of the world, having everything they need. Why are not happy? And eventually, I do understand some parts. But I think the isolation is quite something I didn't expect it to be this much. You are lonely and alone here. True. I mean, we are like the loneliest generation or something like that. A lot of it does probably have to do with social media. Yeah. That's a whole different show, I think, right there. Exactly. Yeah. Do you ever have dreams or I should say, do you ever have nightmares of like you wake up and you're in North Korea? Yeah, I mean, I get up and I get beaten and I try to escape. And the only very unique thing with the North Koreans, whenever you ask them in their dream is always North Korea. And that's the thing. You never escape in your subconscious. You're there forever.

Like my mom, every night she's there. Every night I'm there. Like, nobody escapes in your dream. Wow. Well, I've heard you say that you can tell a North Korean by their voice on the phone. Yeah. What is it that you hear? Oppression.

Oppression. Yeah. I can totally tell. So I work with a lot of Chinese brokers. I rescue people. I send money. I get information out. I'll make some products out too.

And there are some sketchy Korean ethnic Chinese, right? Like there are different ethnic in China. There are some Koreans who can do a North Korean accent. They try to lie to you and say, oh, I'm a nurse cream. When I help you, let's work together. Send me you cash or something. Then when I hear them, like, oh, no, you're not North Korean. Interesting.

Because it's exact same accent. With a North Korean broker, even their broker, they're oppressed. You hear it right away. Before my family got punished, I was sending them money, a lot of money, and then talking to a lot of my friends' mothers, too. And you just hear the oppression right there. How are you talking to them on like a smuggled phone? Yeah, it's a whole operation.

So we smuggled the phone in the border area to North Korea. And North Korea jams the phone. Oh, really? So they have to be in the bicycle, reading a hood, hiding it, and then moving around 30 seconds. Then 30 seconds later, they have to go all the way the other time and then call me for like 30 seconds. And then we have to use a lot of word like sugar and candy or call it the words. Could they hear you? Oh, because they're using technology to listen to the call.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so sugar and candy is like people or whatever we are trying to get out or like information. It's all about like a lot of grocery store. Cabbage has a rice, has a corn, has like the wheat, you know. Like, what am I. So that's all called words. Is it a smartphone?

Because I feel like encrypted chat is so much easier. They don't have usually the internet in North Korea. So we get just all the days, those sliding phone, the Chinese phone that we have. Some of them do have smartphones, but the internet is not connected. Right. So we call the Chinese phone in America, but the Chinese phone that we smuggled in, going to answer it. So it only works when you're like right on the border. Or if I want to talk to somebody inside, indoor, the inner North Korea, then we turn the call the North Korean phone and Chinese phone and then turn the speaker phone.

Right, okay. Yeah. Yikes. What an operation. Yeah. It's quite complicated. But then it's North Korea is even more dangerous. So you got to be like sound like North Korean.

You got to completely talk in a way. But usually you just want to verify, like if somebody's there, are they still alive? Because a lot of people that I love the family, then they know, so they try to get money from me. So they're like, oh, your aunt is there. I'm your aunt. Can I get money?

And the brokers want to get money, make money from me. So, oh, your aunt asking for money. So I want to just verify, is this my aunt or not. So I said, like, oh, how is the, maybe your child has what grade is in the school? Or like, what's a name. Then they tell me, like, if they don't know, of course, they have no clue. Do you remember the birthday when we went to this river and then when we saw this, what do you remember what we saw together? Yeah, if they don't remember, like they are not.

Man, because there's no banks. People don't know. Like, you can't Venmo someone in North Korea. There's no banks. There's nothing. So how do you even get money to them? You just have to have somebody carry it there, right? No, we have to send the money to Chinese brokers bank in China.

They get the money out. The commissions are sometimes 50% or 60, 70%. Yeah, you don't have a choice. Yeah, it's the biggest. banking business you can get in, it's so high. Then they get the money out, and then they roll it, and then, like, with the plastic bag, and then you put a stone and the one, like, string, and then you throw as a hard as you can to the North Korean side. You're kidding. Or putting a tube, and then let the tube to go and let the, with a rock, you have to really go at throwing the rock,

and then with a thing that you can, like, do this. Or somebody's going in person and going out in, or not dangerous stuff, but you do that. The tomb and river is just full of, like, rocks with money wrapped around it. No, it's very impassable now hard because the security is so hard. So you have to bribe the guards. So these guards take the money out of it. The North Korean broker gets the money out of it. Chinese broker gets money out of it.

And then when it ends up in your family, it's like very little amount. What a crazy operation that is. You've been through so many different circumstances in your life. You must feel like it must feel like you've lived 100 lifetimes. Yeah. I feel like at least lived 2,000 years. at this point. Yeah.

I have a Cineiro. So how does helping people escape North Korea work? Like, what does it cost to get someone out? Yeah, I mean, I cannot say exact route they take. No, no, I'm just, yeah, yeah. Most of we take them through Thailand now. I mean, the North Korean region knows it too. Now everybody knows.

It's like, yeah, it's the government. Yeah, but you know the location, but how we do is that it costs around less than $2,000, like $1,800. To get a person out? Yeah, from China. But from North Korea, it's impossible now. Oh, so you can't get people out of North, you can only get them out of China. Even with 50,000K or 100,000 K, you cannot get out. Oh, right, because of the border security.

So secure. How many North Koreans are in China waiting to escape now, in your estimation? Approximately, they say around 300,000 people. 300,000. Yeah. Mostly women are being trafficked and being sold and raped. We met a lot of Korean, they said Korean Chinese, but what do I know? when I was in Dandong on the border.

And I, to this day, wonder how many of them are actually just North Korean and they were, and they were always with old guys, which I thought was really unusual and creepy. Yeah. All of them are North Koreans. They say they are ethnic because they cannot speak perfect Chinese. Right. So, like, why do you have an accent? Then like, oh, because I'm ethnic Chinese.

The ones that escaped very early on in the 90s, they were able to buy the ID. So in China, called the hookah, somebody's a haka, right? So if somebody dies, the family do not report on the police and then sell that ID because a lot of children left the city work. Right. Right in China rural areas, a lot of young people go work in the city. So their hookah, their ID from their village or whatever is just sitting in the drawers. Yeah. And then so those farmers sell the hookah.

And then you buy it. But then like nowadays you're the social credit system and everything's on digital. It's really hard to fake it. But back in the 90s, even the internet wasn't that widely used. So unless the police really go that town. asking the town around around, do you think that child is alive or died? Town people know. But then police not going to go travel all the way to the countryside and then check it.

So it was those people actually hiding in China and then do those things. Is the bottleneck then just funds to get these people out? If you can get them out, it's the best thing, right? Imagine like if there's at least 100,000 nurses can escape, that power is going to be unbelievable. And that many people want to speak out and have information. and when North Koreans come out, as I said, it's not like they are only escaping themselves. Most of the North Koreans reach out back to their family and send money and information. So imagine how many people are getting fund from the free world and hearing about the world.

Yeah, this is useful. Look, speaking of ads and capitalism, what if we use the ad profits from this episode to get North Koreans out of China? Can we do that? Not from North Korea, but China. But from China. Yeah, that is absolute. Let's do that. Like, can I text you after this and we'll figure out how to do it?

I have no idea how to do that. I can't. Okay, yes, let's do that. Okay, let's end right there because that's a happy note on the end of this crazy, crazy saga. Thank you so much for your time and for coming in. This has really been, I don't even know. There's not one word I can describe it. So thank you so much for sharing.

This has just absolutely been incredible. Oh, thank you for having me. It's an honor. Here's a trailer for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show with Charles Rue here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. When I was 14, I gave my first opportunity to escape North Korea and go to China. Police camped her house. We were getting deported to North Korea. I got transported to detention center.

They are brainwashing us for nine months. I started working in a coal mine when I was paid only in rice. So one morning, instead of entering the mine, I walked off the path and began running. And in the distance, I saw a train come to stop. This is my chance. to get on that train. I finally made it to the border town. I'm already determined. The next day, right, I walked into the river that divides North Korea in China, which is Yellow River. And then I slowly walked into the water. I slipped on a rock and I lit out a scream. A floodlight was on my back,

and I heard a soldier screaming at me. Oh man. Yeah, this shtiya, don't know. Don't know. Stop, stop. Or I will shoot. The guard kept screaming in me, but he never filled the trigger. And then I went into the cornfield. I'm in China now. So I'm by, I'm by, another long journey to Southeast Asia. I got to Thailand. That was the best day of my life, going to Thai prison. And then I was trying to apply for South Korea, but they didn't recognize me as refugee. And they're like, we would have to send you back to China. Chinese government sent me back to North Korea, but you guys don't want to help me. And that's just the tip of the

iceberg. He escaped the police. He had to run with secret police in China. I mean, this guy just has an absolutely amazing sense of survival and story. And that's episode. Episode 84 with Charles Rue Confessions of a North Korean Escape Artist, Part 1 and Part 2, Episode 84 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Make sure you check it out. So I Spoke the Truth, did a different type of episode with Yonmi Park. It's interesting about her being on a kill list from Kim Jong-un from the regime and finding that liberating.

I don't know if I would find it liberating, but then again, I've never been on a kill list. At least not as far as I know. Bill Browder, episode number three of this show, is also on Putin's kill list. Other investigative journalists I've spoken with have similar feelings about being hunted. Maybe it's liberating, but yeah, they don't fly Russian airlines, for example. Her book, which is linked in the show notes, goes into detail on the situation in North Korea, her human trafficking story. It discusses the negotiations on the price she was sold for, et cetera.

It's really just surreal. And again, a harrowing tale I think you'll really enjoy. I enjoy reading those accounts. I've read pretty much everything on North Korea. And the place, if you haven't been, which most of you have not, is really surreal. I talk about my trips there quite often, episode 435 and 439, which are just stories from me and Gabriel Mizrahi, who you know from Feedback Friday, on our trips to North Korea,

because both of us have been four or five times each, sometimes separately. Big thank you to Yonmi Park. Her book will be linked in the show notes. Always use our links, if you don't mind, to buy books from the guests. It does help support the show, audio books included. Worksheets for episodes are in the show notes. Transcripts for episodes are in the show notes. There's a video of this interview and many others that always

go up on our YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. And our Clips channel, with cuts that don't make it to the show or highlights from the interviews that you can't see anywhere else, Jordan Harbinger.com slash clips is where you can find that. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or just hit me on LinkedIn. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems and tiny habits, the same ones that I use every day, including the software that we made to keep in touch with folks.

That's our six-minute networking course. The course is free. I don't need your credit card info. no sneaky stuff going on. It's just for you at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I want to teach you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. And most of the guests on the show, they subscribe to the course and contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created an association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Milio Campo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting

others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's into North Korea, harrowing stories, or just a fan of YonMe Park, please share this episode with him. Hopefully you find something great in every episode of this show. So please share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like podcast. If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what that actually happened? You got to subscribe to What Was That Like? It's Real People,

people telling the most surreal moments of their lives and they're not just giving you the highlights, they're walking you through it from the inside as a person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing. Do you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out What was that like? Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most

bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast, focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not.

The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.