The Jordan Harbinger Show - 595: My Bi Guy: Am I Enough to Satisfy? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

When your significant other confessed his bisexual tendencies, you began to wonder: can you ever really give him everything he needs to be satisfied in a relationship? We'll try to find answers to this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/595 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: When your significant other confessed his bisexual tendencies, you began to wonder: can you ever really give him everything he needs to be satisfied in a relationship? Losing all your hair to Alopecia Universalis is ruining your confidence on a personal as well as professional level. What can you do to bring that confidence back? Your relationship with someone from a radically different cultural background has become more serious. How do you integrate respectfully and smoothly into the experience with as few hiccups as possible? Bad people taking advantage of the perks of your friendship in the past have made it difficult to open up to new, more deserving friends. How can you lower your defenses enough to make new friends without being a sucker to the undeserving? You love the feeling of being counted on and wanted by your employer, but you worry that you're a little too accommodating. How can you draw healthy boundaries and avoid being a yes man? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss our conversation with behavioral expert Thomas Erikson? Catch up with episode 465: Thomas Erikson | How to Protect Yourself from Psychopaths here! Like this show? Please leave us a review...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the Rodman to this Jordan, Gabriel Mizrahi. Speaking of Rodman, we still got the Rodmanitis, both of us. It sound like I've been smoking cigarettes out of it, just a comically long cigarette holder for the past week, and I can't seem to shake it. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills are the world's most fascinating people, and we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it's comes to how these amazing people think and behave, and our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers.

This week, we had Stephen Pinker on why now is actually the best time in history, to be alive with some data about how we're safer and better off than ever before. We also had Joshua Fields Milburn on minimalism and the disciplined pursuit of less, which I thought was great timing, given the holidays, spend way too much on plastic crap for the kids season. So make sure you've had to listen to everything that we created for you here this week. I can't remember where I read this, but a friend of mine was writing something. He sent me a piece and he said, don't write to sound smart. Write to be useful.

And if you're useful over a long time period, you will end up looking smart anyway. And it doesn't have to just be writing, right? It can be with anything that you're creating. If you're writing or creating or doing your podcast or your YouTube videos to look like you're some sort of genius or that you're smart or you're trying to do it to impress others, that's never going to be a long-term strategy. It's good for marketing. It's good short-term. You might get a couple points from it, but really the same philosophy as this show. Be useful. That is the key. And luckily, I'm just not in any danger of sounding smart. So I only have but one choice, which is to be useful. Something to think about. Anyway, Gabe, what's the

first thing out of the mailback. Hey Jordan and Gabe. Over the last four years, I've caught my boyfriend having overtly sexual conversations with other women. Eventually, the problem became so extreme that I accused him of being a sex addict or having some type of behavioral problem. He finally confessed to me that he's compensating for the fact that he's sexually attracted to men. Now, I know he's definitely attracted to women, as we have no issues in our sex life, but I'm concerned that he's never going to be satisfied with me if he hasn't fulfilled this need. I'm not saying bisexual people can't be with straight people, but he's never acted on his attraction to men, and it's clearly driving him to risk our relationship in other ways. Can someone who has never acted upon these

desires stay in a heterosexual relationship without a problem? Signed, staying the race when he's playing for two teams. Wow, that's an interesting one, isn't it, Gabe? First of all, you're right. Of course, bisexual people can be in happy relationships with straight people. I know some people that are married and happily sort of in these relationships. So I've seen it firsthand, and of course, you didn't have to look too far to find that this is totally possible. The idea that by people are inherently more promiscuous or fundamentally impossible to satisfy, it's an unfortunate myth. Fortunately, that myth is going away. But given that, I find your question interesting. You're asking whether your boyfriend can be fulfilled when he has this attraction to men that he hasn't

acted on, as far as you know. And I agree, that's a complex part of his personality that he's still coming to understand. But the real issue here isn't that he's attracted to men. It's that he's been low-key cheating on you for four years. Now, I hear you that the two might be related. He's saying, oh, I'm texting with these other women to compensate for my attraction to men, which, okay, maybe he is. But also, I don't really see the logic here. I mean, if he's so insecure about being attracted to men, couldn't he just throw himself into his relationship with you? Like you said, you know he's into women. There are no issues in your sex life.

So why text all these other girls? That doesn't sound like compensatory behavior. That just sounds like cheating or emotional cheating anyway. Or like sexting, which is somewhere on the cheating spectrum. I guess what I'm saying is, is this really just about his orientation or is this about his personality? Am I crazy, Gabe? I don't see the connection here.

I feel like it's just like a freaking smokescreen. Yeah, not at all. I'm having the exact same reaction. I mean, look, I guess it's possible that he's so free. freaked out by the prospect of being by that he's trying to prove something to himself by carrying on with all these other women, kind of like, you know, look at me. I can't possibly have a crush on my fitness instructor. Like I'm talking to all these women. Look at my, you know. So maybe there's some connection there. But to your point, he still has to be the kind of person who would secretly sex with other women, right? So at a minimum, this is probably some interplay of his orientation struggles and his personality. Because again, he's texting women. So if he really is by, then that means that he's into men and women, right? So these overtly sexual messages that he's been sending to these girls,

they're not just for show or whatever. He probably has some sincere interest in them, right? Yeah, I would assume so. That's what's tripping me up here. He's pulling the, I think I might be by card to explain the cheating, but I might be by, is that really a good excuse? That's like saying,

sorry I keep eating all the banana bread in the fridge, but I also really love falafel. Like, okay, thanks for the heads up, but you still ate all the freaking banana bread. You just said you like both. How does that make things better at all? None of this seems to connect for me. Exactly. I mean, if he had said he thought he was gay and he was texting women to reassure himself that he wasn't gay, I might be more inclined to understand, although I would still say it's uncool to lie to your girlfriend for this long. At a certain point, orientation notwithstanding, I mean, if you're in a monogamous relationship, this is problematic behavior.

Obviously, I empathize with anyone who's confused, anybody who's figuring themselves out. That goes without saying. these things can take time, I get it. But in this case, it really does sound like the orientation thing and the cheating thing are two separate things. So my question for you is, why have you been overlooking this for so long? This is not new behavior on his part. He's been doing this for four years. You've caught him multiple times. You've confronted him. His behavior got so extreme. You even thought he might be a sex addict. I mean, long before he brought up his attraction to men, he was carrying on with these women and you knew and you decided to let it go. So that's really what I'm curious about, why you forgave him for cheating or some version of cheating so many times,

why you continue to put up with it, why you didn't encourage him to maybe figure out why he had this impulse in the first place, maybe help him work through that. I'm not trying to blame you here or make you feel bad, not at all. I get that this is complicated, but if we're being fair here, we can't ignore the role that you played in perpetuating the situation, if only by accepting your boyfriend's cheating for four years. And look, if it turns out that being by is driving him to carry on with these women, then of course I encourage you to help him sort that out, process whatever feelings he has around his orientation. But if he's carrying on with these women for some other reason, which is possible, maybe because he feels trapped or maybe because he craves the

attention or, I don't know, is unconsciously trying to end your relationship or he's just not ready to commit and he still wants to have fun with other people. There's so many reasons that people do this kind of thing. Then he needs to work through that and he needs to decide if this is really the relationship he wants to be in. And the best place for him to do that, in my opinion, obviously, would be in therapy. And if you guys decide to stay together, you might want to consider couples counseling because there's a lot for both of you guys to unpack here. Yeah, agreed completely, Gabe. There's a ton going on beneath the surface here. And I'm thinking individual therapy for both of them, but especially for him right now. And then maybe couples

therapy if they feel their relationship can and should be saved. So to answer your question, can a guy who's by and hasn't acted upon his desire to be with another man be in a straight relationship without a problem. Maybe, maybe not. He would probably need to have some more experiences. I don't know, bang some more dudes. No, I'm going to do some soul searching. Get in touch with all these parts of him.

But also kind of, yeah, maybe give it a shot, whatever. Get in touch with all these parts of himself before he can be sure that he's in the right relationship. And he'll still have to be an honest partner for that relationship to work. He can't be hiding his personality or just like sexting with other random people online, which is true of anyone,

regardless of orientation. So the better questions to ask yourself are, who is my boyfriend really? What do I need from my partner? And are we both in the right place to have a healthy relationship with each other at this point in time? I would work on those questions, and I know that those will lead you to the right answer. So good luck. You know who won't be sexting behind your back and then using their sexual orientation as an excuse? The products and services that help support this show. We'll be right back. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show.

Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. All right. Next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 26 and I've lived with alopecia, an autoimmune disease that causes hair loss for all of my life, typically in the form of manageable

bald spots. Recently though, my alopecia has transitioned to alopecia universalis, which is total hair loss. My eyebrows, eyelashes, facial hair, head hair, they're all gone. I found that this recent development has negatively impacted my confidence in my job and especially with women. Where I used to have a ton of confidence, it's just not there anymore. I find that with the opposite sex, I can never really bring myself to put myself out there because I just can't fathom being viewed as attractive. In professional settings, I just don't feel like I'm taken as seriously as I once was. I recognize that most of these feelings are in my head, but that doesn't really stop them from feeling true in the moment.

I know there are some steps I can take, such as microblading my eyebrows, but part of me feels like doing that would be running away from my insecurity. Perhaps I need to learn to develop an unconditional confidence in the person I am as some sort of lesson in self-love, but I don't know. Do you have any thoughts or advice on getting over this hump? signed Baring the Feeling of Baring It All. It's a great question, and I'm sorry you've been struggling with this, man. It must be unsettling to see your body change so dramatically.

I'm sure the transformation is really hard sometimes. You're right. Losing your hair, it's not something you can bargain with or control. And like any form of loss, this is forcing you to confront some really intense stuff, your appearance, how you perceive yourself, and most importantly, I think, where you derive your source of confidence. And before we dive in, it's worth pointing out you're far from the only person to struggle with this. We did some homework and the research shows that alopecia can often lead to depression,

anxiety, social phobia. It's closely tied to stress in many cases. And one study actually identified a group of alopecia patients with an ongoing feeling of loss, which basically means that for some people coping with alopecia might be similar to the grieving process following a death. It can also create some social paranoia, cause people. to withdraw, make them worry whether they really fit in. And I only bring all of this up to say that what you're experiencing, it's very normal. You're still working through all this. I mean, you're 26, you're super young. It's only recently that you lost your hair. So it makes sense that you're still in that sort of morning process for the appearance you once had. And that's okay.

In fact, it's necessary. So the most important thing you can do right now is to fully accept your hair loss. Now, I think you've already done that mostly, but it comes in state. As long as you have days when you wish things were different, there's still a part of you that hasn't completely accepted this change. There will come a time when you have to say, this is the hand I've been dealt, I can't change it, I can only own it and decide how I show up. And if you struggle to do that, I think it would be really helpful to talk this out with a professional right now, somebody who can help you process all of the thoughts and feelings that are coming up around the hair loss. And we've talked about this on the show before. Any therapist should be

able to help, but you might want to look for a behavioral health psychologist specifically. There are also a ton of alopecia support groups out there. I drop in on a few of them and see if you pick up any insights from other people who've been living with this for a while. As for the confidence piece, I understand that this has been a blow. I really do. I won't sit here with my full mane of luscious locks and these two thick caterpillars above my eyes and say, just be confident, don't overthink it. No one cares about your hair as much as you do. You're the one that has to live with this, and obviously it would be absurd to suggest that people don't notice some kind of difference in you. But what I can say is that your confidence, you can consciously decide where that

comes from. You might not have as much confidence that you look like everyone else, but you can still have the confidence in your talent, in your skills, in your personality. You can still be a hardworking person, a killer employee, a solid peer. You can be an awesome person, basically, and that can be where you derive your sense of self. In fact, if you feel like you're not being taken as seriously at work now, which might or might not be true, but let's assume that you're right, in certain cases, then it would be an interesting exercise to think about how to combat that perception. What would you need to know or understand to be invaluable? What skills or qualities would you need to develop in order to be undeniable at work? Figure that out and then come up

with a plan to get there. If people are judging you for your looks, then they'll be corrected pretty quickly when they realize how friggin' great you are at what you do. If they aren't judging you, then at least you'll have applied your anxiety in a productive way, leveled up, and that's just one way you might be able to use this disorder to your advantage by using it to fuel your growth rather than just obsessing over what people think. Same thing goes for dating. In the dating context, I really do believe that accepting yourself is like 80% of the battle. It'll be much harder for another person to be totally comfortable with your alipatia if you aren't. Over time, as you work through the feelings we've been talking about, you'll start to call it out in advance,

you'll talk about it without being embarrassed, you might even be able to have a laugh about it, which'll, that'll put people at ease. Because the truth is, there's nothing more attractive than somebody who knows exactly who they are and can laugh about it. I mean, that's what we love about comedians, right? That quality is so powerful. It's endearing, it's refreshing. It gives the other person permission to relax and be themselves to. And in a dating context where people are usually trying to hide their flaws and impress the other person, that's kind of a superpower. I've had friends who were three feet tall and in a wheelchair and had great dating lives, simply because of the level of self-acceptance they were able to practice. It was really something.

So my advice is to begin the process of accepting this change and integrating it, into your personality. This might take some time, could be six months, could even be a couple years, could be longer, you know, if you're really dilly-dally in here. In all likelihood, it'll probably be a process. There might be easier days and harder days, and that's normal. And sure, if microblading your eyebrows will help you feel a little better, and Jen did that, by the way, and it looks great. That might be a great option for you. I don't think there's any shame in those solutions if they'd make you feel more comfortable or give you a little edge. I just wouldn't look to a cosmetic procedure to give you all of the confidence that you feel.

you're lacking. That confidence is ultimately going to come from your relationship with your hair loss and what you value most about yourself. So I dig into that, ideally with a professional, and trust that your new appearance is only leading you to something better. I think a clearer sense of self is on the horizon, an opportunity to level up. More empathy for other people struggling with themselves, which, by the way, that's like another superpower, and a new way to value yourself for the qualities that really actually count and not just whether your follicles be functioning properly. We're also going to link to a bunch of great resources for you in the show notes, including a past Feedback Friday episode that was episode 538, where we shared some thoughts with the

guys struggling to date with a physical disability. Obviously, different situation from yours, but a lot of the ideas we talked about there would be super helpful for you as well. Just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash 538. I love your attitude and willingness to work through this, man. Good luck. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. That does make our job a lot easier. And if you can include the state and country you live in, that'll help us give you more detailed advice. If there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or if you just need a new perspective on stuff, life, love, work, what to do if you think you might be a psychopath, whatever's got you

staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday atjordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. All right. Next up. Hey guys. I recently met and started dating somebody whose family background is Hmong. So this is Hmong, like people from Laos, right? That's right. Mon, exactly. Yeah, so in Detroit, actually, there's a huge Hmong community. And it's spelled HM-O-N-G, as I'm sure you know.

And people will say ha-mong. But as we learned in Grand Torino with Clint Eastwood, it's Hmong, not Hamong. Because Clint Eastwood, of course, being a crusty old cranky guy, can't pronounce it. And one of the main characters later corrects him while she's in his truck. Yeah, so I'm familiar. I'm not sure if everyone, I don't think everyone in Laos is Hmong. I think it's like one of the many ethnicities that live in Lao and a lot of them came over after Vietnam because they were prosecuted by the state. I think there's also a Hmong community in Thailand. So they're in a few different countries. Yeah. So the letter goes on, I was wondering if you could share some

personal experiences with integrating into a familial culture much different from your own. What things surprised you or were unexpected? I'm open and interested in her family and home culture. has any insights, I would love to hear them as well. One last thing. The discussion of a dowry payment has come up and while I wouldn't mind, it does feel kind of low or like I'm making my partner more of an object. Have you or anyone else dealt with that before? Signed dating, debating, and integrating. Well, first of all, congrats on meeting a girl you actually like. That's amazing. What's even more awesome is how curious you are about her culture, especially given how different it is from yours. And I can tell you from personal experience, it is super fun to marry into another culture.

It adds a ton to your life. It gives your kids a very cool mix of qualities and languages and a unique identity that they'll take with them for their whole lives. So sure, I'm happy to share a bit about integrating into a family with a very different culture. As most of you guys know, my wife, Jen's family is Taiwanese. They speak Mandarin as well as English. That's part of the reason I got into learning Chinese. And now, even though I started before I met her, and now we're raising our son, Jaden, with both English and Mandarin, which is actually pretty cool. So first things first, I realized early on, and I'm

generalizing here, that Asian parents were going to be all up in our business all the time, and I just made peace with it. At first, it was like, maybe this is a bit much, but then I realized it's because they want the best for their kids and their grandkids. So I was like, okay, it might be a little unusual or weird that they come over every day, sometimes twice, but it's also really nice that they want to help. And so I just decided to take more of the let's be a tight-knit family part of that and less of the tell everyone how to do everything part, even if, it's mostly to Jen anyways, so it's kind of like, fine, whatever. Jen's parents are way more chill, though, than a lot of other in-laws. I know there are some in-laws out there from hell, and Jen's parents are super cool,

especially to me. That's also partly because I learn Chinese and they respect that, so I have an idea here for you. If you're interested and you're willing to put in a little bit of work, I would take some Hmong classes. A little bit will go a long way, especially if you're like, well, We want to make sure our future children can speak and understand this language at least a bit. I have to lead by example. I can promise you that your in-laws will be thrilled. They'll probably be like, wow, our son-in-law, he's amazing. He gets it.

He can speak basic mong, even though he's white. As a white guy who does this myself, I can tell you it's a really special feeling, and no one's going to forget it. It's going to go a really long way. People are going to be blown away, especially the extended family. They've probably never seen it before. As for the dowry thing, I can understand your hesitation about it. It's definitely a patriarchal concept.

But it still exists in many cultures. It probably has its roots and property law regarding women, which, yeah, I mean, not a great look in this day and age. But I actually asked Jen about this, and she told me a story I didn't know, which is that apparently her dad had to pay, you could call it a dowry to her mom's parents when they got married because her mom's parents had gambled away their money.

And my mother-in-law apparently had quite a hard childhood because she's the oldest of the kids, and she had to go around and beg her friend's parents to borrow money at one point, which has to just be kind of humiliating. So they took the opportunity to get some of that debt paid off. They basically commoditized their daughter, I guess, which definitely kind of gross if you apply it to the American, sort of modern American standard here or the Western standard,

but maybe the only way out of financial problems in certain parts of the world. Jen said the whole thing was very Joy Luck Club, if you've ever read that book or seen the movie. So, yeah, dowries are a little weird. It's up to you to decide whether you want to play along with that proposal. I do think it's well within your right to say something like, sorry, no, I love your daughter for who she is. I'm not going to pay you six grand or 60 grand or whatever creepy number

you and the aunties have come up with for the privilege of marrying her. That's not how I think of her. That's not how I'm going to treat her. So sorry, no. Your wife can back you up on that if she agrees. Hopefully help her parents see that they're imposing a custom that's at odds with your values. Unless she's into the dowry idea, then you guys just might have to work through that disagreement.

Maybe you can do something that's more symbolic than expensive, but I'm guessing that your wife is a little sketched out by a two given this letter. On the other hand, if they insist or it's going to cause a massive rift, there's maybe a way to check that box without making it a whole thing that makes you feel gross. Maybe you pay for the wedding, and that's the dowry. Or maybe you take her and her parents on a really nice trip. Like, you could go to Laos or Thailand, where you can flex some of your new Hmong skills, and then you create a great memory with everyone, and that's the dowry. or maybe you just pay it, but you find a way to think of it in a more positive way. Like, it's a gift to them.

It's a rad symbol of the love you have for your wife. As long as her parents don't go to Reno and gamble it all away. Maybe they can use it for something important like starting a portfolio or adding it to their nest egg or build a friggin' deck on the house. But again, I think it's a conversation with your wife about whether you're both comfortable with this custom, whether you can afford it, what it means to you and your in-laws, then make a decision that hopefully honors your values and theirs. And who knows?

Maybe if you start spitting Mong at Sunday dinner, your in-laws will be so impressed. They'll just drop the whole thing. Maybe they'll be like, forget the money. This white boy just asks us to pass the noodles and Mung. That's the dowry. I doubt that's going to happen, by the way. That is definitely not going to happen.

But it might bring the diary down a little bit. It might. Yeah, it might be good leverage for you. Maybe you can say, I'm spending the dowry on Mong lessons, and that's the bargain. I don't know. I wonder what I would pay for Jen. I've been thinking about this.

Ooh, good question. Maybe it'd have to pay in Bitcoin. Put it on Layaway. Layaway! By the way, if you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a way to tell your friends about the show, our episode starter packs are a good place to do that. These are collections of your favorite episodes

organized by popular topic. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start to get started. Also, we've been getting a lot of questions about adoption recently. People who have adopted, people who just found out, were adopted, people who are debating whether to get in touch with their biological parents, navigating the family dynamics of adoption in general. We'd love to take some of these questions

on the show, but we could really use some experts to consult with to make sure we're giving solid advice. If you work in the adoption world in any capacity, but more on the psychological side of things rather than on the purely legal or logistical side, like an adoption counselor or a social worker or an adoption expert, and you'd be down to share some brief thoughts with us on questions from time to time. We'd love to hear from. you, put you on our roster of subject matter experts here, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com that would really up our game in this department. All right, what's next?

Hey Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 29-year-old woman, and a few years ago, all of my friends were going down bad paths in their lives, wrestling with addiction, volatile relationships, and generally just doing dumb shit. What they all had in common was taking advantage of me and my friendship. I was going through hell and back to support my friends during their darkest days, while neglecting my own well-being. But they wouldn't do anything to actually change their situations. They would just use me to vent. One friend in particular was addicted to crack cocaine and heroin.

She was homeless and she turned to prostitution to survive. And while she did try to get clean and stay clean, she would also make excuses for her situation by pointing to her abuse of childhood and just leaving it at that. I would stay up late at night with panic attacks worrying about her and whether I would get a call saying that she had overdosed or had been murdered by a John. So I finally made the painful decision to stop all contact with her and with all the other toxic people I had held close for so many years. The problem is I've now put up a wall to protect myself from further platonic heartbreak and I'm struggling to tear that wall down. All of my attempts to make friends now fall apart either because the other person loses interest or because I start to get scared

and put more bricks in the wall. I want friends again. I need friends again. I just don't know how to do this. How would you handle the situation? Signed. Checking out. of the Platonic Heartbreak Hotel. Wow. Well, it sounds like you've come a long way in your friendships and in your personal growth. You're right. It does sound like those relationships were pretty one-sided. You are befriending people who were problematic in one way or another. It also sounds like it was hard for you to separate from them emotionally, I mean internally, to the point where whatever your friends are going through, it's almost as if you were going through it too, it was that

intense. So it makes sense that you finally had to pull away. I'm sure that being enmeshed in your friend's lives and feeling responsible for them, especially when they weren't doing the same thing for you, that must have taken a real toll. But now you've put up this wall, this protective armor, to prevent this from happening again, and it's holding you back from new friendships. And now you're suffering, because as you put it, you want and need friends again, but you don't know how to be open and safe at the same time. So it's interesting. I'm getting the sense that being in a relationship with another person, it's this kind of either or a situation. Either you put up a wall with people and you don't get involved and protect yourself, or you lower your defenses and get

involved and fall into that messy pattern you experienced with your old friends, the fear, the panic, the caretaking, the self-neglect. And I can't entirely blame you for being so guarded. If those seem like your only two options in a friendship, then it makes sense that you'd put up a wall. It's just too damn risky to subject yourself to those volatile feelings. But there's a whole middle ground between these two poles, where you can be close with people and care about them and not feel entirely responsible for their well-being, the sort of friendship where you can help someone through a tough time and then not stay up all night worrying that they're going to die, where you can be there for somebody and then not abandon yourself in the process. And ideally, where the other person

has the same experience with you, that's what a healthy friendship looks like. That's why boundaries are so key. And I'm not just talking about external boundaries about what you will and won't put up with from people. I'm also talking about the internal boundary of, I am my person, you are your person, and I can't be 100% responsible for your life and my life. So I have to recognize where my experience of you ends and your experience of you begins. That's the boundary that I'm sensing you struggle with, the one that allows you to be close with somebody without overtly identifying with them, without making them the center of your life, like with your friend who is homeless and addicted and caught up in sex work.

When you don't have that crucial inner boundary, the edges of your personality can become blurry. Your emotional state can become kind of porous. And that's when all these messy feelings start to spill all over the place. To the point where you might not even know if the feelings you're having are your feelings or their feelings

or whatever the hell is going on. And if you suffer with that enough, the solution might seem to just put up a wall, stay the hell away from people, but that's not how we're supposed to operate as human beings. We need one another. And if you work on some of this inner stuff, then I think you'll be able to find that middle ground where you can be supportive without being responsible, vulnerable without being exposed. And the best place to do that, of course, is in therapy.

The roots of this relational template go way, way back, all the way to your childhood, whether you know it or not, whether it was taken care of mom or being responsible for a sibling from a young age or being emotionally neglected as a child yourself, whatever it might be. So I'd find a therapist who specializes in childhood, family dynamics, relational stuff, start unpacking all this, and then hopefully start building a healthier model for your friendships. It's very interesting because when she describes these old friends, she talks a lot about their dysfunction, and that's obviously playing a huge role here. But there's also a ton of stuff on her side of the street here, you know, how she responds to that dysfunction, how she

seems to abandon herself in the process of trying to help other people, which is the stuff that she can absolutely work on on her own. That said, I do just want to point out that this template that she's falling into, it's also being created by the people she's choosing, right? The friend she mentioned who was struggling with addiction and homelessness and sex work, that woman is obviously going through a lot of stuff herself. And according to our friend who wrote in here, she wasn't interested in taking some accountability for her situation. She was just sort of using her to vent, chalking it up to a difficult childhood. Oh, well, I can't do anything about it. Now, look, I do have compassion for someone like that she clearly deserves help she clearly deserves support but let's just acknowledge for a moment

that you chose this person as your friend and when she relied on you for comfort and then she didn't do the same for you you stuck around in that friendship and i'm proud of you for pulling away it was probably the right thing to do i mean if this relationship was really as parasitic as you made it sound but my point is this the people you choose in the first place that's just as important as how you show up in those friendships you tend to take care of people at your own but you're also picking people who need someone to take care of them, people who aren't willing or aren't able to do the same for you. So you're both participating in that dynamic. So yes, definitely work on the boundary stuff that Jordan just mentioned, but I would also start thinking

more carefully about the types of people you really want in your life. If you gravitate to people who are toxic and self-interested and unwilling to take ownership of their stuff, of course you're going to end up feeling like you're a punching bag or a security blanket for people, but if you choose friends who are kind and thoughtful and willing to take accountability, you're going to end up in friendships that are reciprocal and enlivening and enjoyable. And the more that you invest in those kinds of friendships, the less you'll want to slip back into that old model of relating to the wrong people. So that's my advice. Be very thoughtful about whom you're befriending and why you're befriending them in addition to how you relate

to them once you actually are friends. Yeah, nailed it, Gabe. We choose certain people who make us behave a certain way, which enables them to behave in their own way, which makes us respond to them in a certain way. And before you know it, you're caught up in this toxic dynamic that makes you want to change your number and never leave the apartment because it's too painful to be close to people. And that's kind of where she is right now. Yes. So your job is to get to the roots of this pattern. Figure out what role this wall is playing in your life and hopefully over time start to find a way to open up to people without tipping over into this old programming. You'll have to be super vigilant this time around to make sure you're not slipping back into the caretaking slash self-abandonment

mode. But if you can do that, you'll be able to catch it happening before it locks in and go, okay, actually, this is where I got to draw the line. I'm here to listen. I'm here to support, but I can't hold your hand and stay up all night worrying about you if you're not willing to make some changes on your own. And that's being a good friend in a nutshell. I know you'll figure this out. Good luck. You know, who else has to prostitute themselves in order to pay the bills? This guy right here. We'll be right back. This is the Jordan Harbinger show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right, next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a manager at a pizza restaurant on the East Coast. I'm working about 60 hours a week, but I can't

say no to getting more hours. I love the feeling of being counted on and wanted, but it's starting to take a huge toll on me mentally. My depression from high school is coming back, and I don't know how to stop myself from being a yes man. What's your advice? Signed, perpetually punching in. Well, as a fellow workaholic myself, I'm not sure I'm the best person in the world to be giving advice on this topic, but I have done a lot of work on the unhealthier aspects of workaholism, and I've tried to lead with the fulfilling parts of it, which are really about loving what I do, being curious, wanting to put out a great product. So first of all, I hear you that you love the feeling of being counted on and wanted. It's gratifying to know that people can rely on you.

It's nice to feel that you're needed, that you're useful. I think we all want to feel that way, whether it's at work or at home or in our relationships. In that right amount, that drive to be counted on, to be essential, I think it's healthy. But that need can easily tip over into something else, something more complicated. For example, there's a very thin line between wanting to be wanted by other people and needing their validation in order to feel worthy. Or to give you another example, that feeling of being the guy who will always show up and get stuff done, that's great. But when it mutates into, I have no idea who I am if I'm not fulfilling a certain function for someone else, then that's a good recipe for depression and burnout and probably some kind of existential

crisis. And maybe that's where you are right now, and I feel for you, I have been there. And so many hardworking people go through that, whether they manage a pizza restaurant in Buffalo, or they're a friggin' managing director at Morgan Stanley, when your whole lifestyle and identity is wrapped up in your function within a certain place, that will almost always bring up some complicated feelings. And probably put the kibosh in a bunch of other feelings that are actually trying to express themselves as well. So what I'm wondering is, what's underneath this need of yours to be needed? What does this feeling of being counted on do for you? My hunch is that devoting your life to the restaurant is feeding you in ways that you probably aren't being fed outside of work.

And I'm not talking about the pizza, which fair enough, work is a big source of gratification for a lot of people, including me. But what's your family life like? How are your relationships? Do you have hobbies or interests or goals outside of the restaurant, or is the restaurant your way of getting all of these needs met? that's what I'd be asking myself if I were you. I think that'll help you understand why you can't say no to getting more hours. Absolutely. And also, what are these 60, 70-hour work weeks allowing you to avoid at the same time? You said that your depression is coming back, but you keep taking on more work, which is very telling. That might be a sign that working this much is helping you sort of mute certain feelings,

maybe feelings you would actually really need to acknowledge, maybe anger or sadness or whatever it is, something that the depression is serving to tamp down. So I'd work both sides of that equation, Jordan's side, which is what is being a yes man helping you access. And then this side of the equation, which is what is being a yes man helping you avoid? There's a lot for you to know between those two parameters. I also just find this term yes man very interesting, Jordan, because again, that could cut both ways, right? If you're the guy who's pumped about running a tight ship and increasing sales and making customers happy and that's where you derive a ton of meaning, that's not really a man to me, that's someone who's just very passionate, very dedicated. But if the owner of the

restaurant is throwing back-to-back shifts to you and you're just absolutely miserable and you know that you need a weekend off to see a friend and catch a movie and work out and take care of yourself and you're too afraid to say, I'm sorry, but I've been pulling 12-hour shifts since last Sunday, I need a couple days off to myself, then yes, that is a problem. That's a pattern that you do need to address. Good point, Gabe. Being a yes man, that could be good or bad, depending on what you're actually saying yes too. So if all else fails, maybe try this. Try not being a yes man and see what happens. Take a long weekend off, give yourself a free day in the middle of the week, try working 50 hours and see if those 10 extra hours make you happier. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But then at least

you'll have more data about what actually makes you really fulfilled. And if the depression persists, then I definitely reach out to a therapist. BetterHelp.com slash Jordan is a good place to start if you don't feel like going through the phone book and book it something local, and maybe even book a consult with a psychiatrist, you know, get a referral from your doctor or hospital, whatever it is, and see if maybe there's something chemical going on here. That's up to you to figure out, but there's zero shame in getting the support you need. It is out there. And whatever you decide to do, don't discount that part of yourself that's hardworking and reliable and dedicated. Those are such valuable qualities. You'd be amazed how few people actually have them. Just make

sure you're using those qualities the right way and those qualities are not using you. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Go back and check out the Stephen Pinker and Joshua Fields Milburn episodes if you haven't yet. If you want to know how I'm booking all these folks, it's because of my network. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and create those relationships, maintain those relationships in just a few minutes a day. It's our six-minute networking course. The course is free. It's on the think-iffic platform. Just go to Jordan Harrow. Harbinger.com slash course.

A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in those show notes. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own.

I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer of my interview with Thomas Erickson on how to spot a psychopath.

Some people tell me, do they have to be psychopaths? Couldn't it just be they are evil? But hey, for me, same thing. They are out there regardless that we are talking about it or not. The stupid psychopath, he would go up to you on the street and see, hey, you got a nice watch, and then you will bang you in the head and take it to watch. The intelligent psychopath, he will see your beautiful watch, and he says, that's a nice watch, and then he will talk you into giving him the watch.

That's the difference. narcissists are not psychopaths, but every psychopath is a narcissist. They think it is their right. They are entitled to act in this way. It is their birthright to use you and me and anybody else. The more you present yourself to the psychopath, the more understanding he has about you, and the more dangerous he becomes. Love bombing is one of the most dangerous manipulation techniques that they can use. If you haven't experienced, let's say true love, let's call it. And then you think you have it within your reach. You're done. I get, you know, I get shivers down my spine. Psychopathy is not an illness. It's a personality disorder. It starts at the moment in the woman's womb, actually.

You can never change a psychopath. How much value would you put in yourself? How much do you think you deserve in life? Do you deserve a good, relationship. For more on how to protect yourself from psychopaths, check out episode 465 with Thomas Erickson on the Jordan Harbinger show. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast? If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid dishwashing and go, wait, what that actually happened? You got to subscribe to what was that

like? It's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives and they're not just giving you the highlights. They're walking you through it from the inside as the person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode, is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing. Do what you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like. Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life.

Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way.

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