The Jordan Harbinger Show - 600: Metta World Peace | Mettaphorically Speaking

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Metta World Peace (@MettaWorld37) (aka Metta Sandiford-Artest, aka Ron Artest) is a former NBA All-Star, author of No Malice: My Life in Basketball or: How a Kid from Queensbridge Survived the Streets, the Brawls, and Himself to Become an NBA Champion, and host of the Mettaphorically Speaking podcast. What We Discuss with Metta World Peace: How did Ron Artest become Metta World Peace, what were some of the considered alternatives, and why did he later change his name to Metta Sandiford-Artest? Growing up with anger management problems that arguably culminated in the infamous Malice at the Palace Pacers–Pistons brawl, how does Metta positively channel his passion these days? Why Metta chose to work a part-time job at Circuit City after practice while pulling in a million dollars a year (albeit before taxes) for the Chicago Bulls. Why Metta made a point to thank his shrink when he was playing for the Lakers and they won the 2010 championship. How Metta has advocated for mental health awareness by donating a portion of his NBA salary and auctioning off his 2010 championship ring. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/600 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss the show we did with Dennis Rodman — one of the greatest rebounders ever to play professional basketball? Catch up here with episode 258: Dennis Rodman | The Worm Is Back! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. One time, you know, I had an issue where somebody was trying to bully me. I got so mad, I went in my room. Upstairs, I brought out some scissors. And I was like, okay, you know, I'm just going to go right in front of the crew. I was by myself with some scissors. Just sat right there, I'm just ready to go. Because I'm like, what else am I going to do?

I'm new to this. That's the thing about being our neighbor, you don't know what somebody's going through. Even though we see you go outside. We see you chilling, laughing. It seems like we're all going through the same things, but we're not. I'm not having a good job. day today. You know what I mean? So it's the wrong person to bully today. Because it's not even going to happen. We can be going to fight. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan

Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional Emmy-nominated comedian, Russian spy or music mogul. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, we've got these episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes, or of the audience's favorite episodes,

organized by popular topic. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on this show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start to get started or to help somebody else get started. And of course, I always appreciate it when you do that. Meta World Peace, formerly Ron Artaest, is here on the show today. Alice at the Palace. This is an incident a while ago where players actually attacked fans in the stands after an on-court incident. If you watch any sports, which I don't, but I mean, it was hard to avoid this news. It made international news because it was kind of insane. Meta later missed 86 games,

which is the longest suspension for an on-court incident in NBA history. Today, he's not only got a different name, but a very different outlook on life and especially on mental health, and we'll be exploring what it's like to have your worst self on public display and what it's like to try and turn around a lifetime of negative programming. This is an interesting conversation, even if you're not an NBA fan. Most of you all know I'm allergic to sports myself. It's just rare to get an inside look at the life of somebody with this type of upbringing and public profile,

and I'm grateful we got to do it. And if you're wondering how I managed to book all the great authors, thinkers, and creators and athletes every single week here on the show, it's because of my network. I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Most of the people you see on the show, they subscribe and contribute to the course as well. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong.

Now, here's Meta World Peace. You started off as Ron Artest, right? You changed your name to Meta World Peace in 2011. Now Meta Sandiford Artest in 2020. So why the change to World Peace of all things? It took a while. Yeah. So I always tell people when Chad Johnson changed his name, I thought that was cool.

And when you're playing sports, you always need something to activate you. So it's not the same mode routine. I said, you know what, I'm going to change my name too. So in 2000s, I think seven or eight, I was going to change it to So Hood. Then I was going to change it to the Queens Bridge. So Hood? Yeah, like, you know, from the get off on the streets. Dang.

So I was going to change it so hood. And then every year, I kept evolving to different things. I was really interested in myself to learn more about myself. It kind of sounds like kind of... Sounds a little narcissistic. It does, right? The way you say it, but I get it.

But I wanted to learn more, right? Yeah. So then when you get to 2011, it's like, okay, I was really into meditation at this time. So then Meta came from about... We looked at about thousand names, maybe 500 names.

Who's we? Like... Me and my partner? Oh, okay. He was just looking at different names from Hyundai, from the Hindi culture. And it was all Buddhist names.

And then we just, kind of narrowed it down. We got to matter that we didn't have a last name. So initially it was going to be a Buddhist last name. But I didn't want two Buddhist names. I didn't want a first name and last name. So then World Peace was literally like one of the first things that popped into my head.

I'm like, oh, matter World Peace? This sounds really kind. This kind of sounds kind of cool. All right, cool, let's just do it. Did you legally change it then? You had to. You had to get it on the jersey. Right. In order to get it on the jersey, you had to legally change it. I guess people can hate Ron Artais, but nobody can be like, I hate World Peace. So you have that going for you. I wouldn't care either way, honestly.

But yeah, you know. Yeah, it makes it harder for people to say bad things about the Republic if your name is World Peace. And then you change it back from World Peace. And I don't know, is World Peace just too unattainable these days or what? You just gave up on World Peace? No, I got married. Yeah. Oh, you did, okay, yeah.

I got married. And then my wife's last name is Sanda Ford. And then we just both took each other's, you know, original last name. Yeah. That's very, like, 20, 21 of you to take her last name and vice versa. Right. It was cool. I thought it was great. I was kind of didn't want to change from World Peace. You know, but, you know, it was like...

You didn't want to change it from... Not initially, but, you know. Was she like, come on, man? Yeah, basically. I knew it. I knew it. I knew she was like, I am not going to be... What's her first name? Maya. I'm not going to be Maya World Peace. I'm just not doing it. Yeah. Yeah. She's like,

that's fine when you're a basketball player and you're getting media attention. For me, I'm just going to have to explain that to everyone. Everyone all the time. Yeah. And then when you have kids, do you have kids with your current... Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. So then their last name would be world.

She's like, I'm not doing that. Doing it. That's a lot of pressure to be in the airport. World Peace, please report. Yeah, that's even extra confused. And then people are like, that can't be the name. They always say that when I'm on a call at the bank. Who name is on the account?

I say, oh, this is Meta World Peace. Who's speaking? Meta World Peace. No, we need to speak to the person who owns the account. Sometimes they'd be like, I said, we need to speak to the person that owns the account. I say, excuse me, my name is Meta World Peace. This is me. Can we move on already?

Yeah. Are you like, dude, Google it, man. I'm a person that you probably would have heard of. But half the time you're talking to somebody who's like living in another country and they're like, I don't watch basketball. Just tell me your name. And it's such a unique name. Sometimes you'll get people saying, is this the meta world piece?

I'm like, yes, there's only one. You know, it's me. There's only one. Yeah, exactly. All right, we talked about this a little bit on your show, but, you know, for the sake of my audience, you grew up in, would you say it's, if I say it's the projects, is that offensive or is that what it's called? It's not offensive.

Okay. So you grew up in the projects, Queensbridge, like rough area. What was that like as a kid? We did touch on this a little bit before when we spoke off air, but I think a lot of people don't understand what that means to grow up like that. Well, it meant like growing up in a project, it means opportunities to get involved in drugs, to get involved in violence, to get involved.

New York City wasn't gang. It's gangs now in the city, but when we grew up, it wasn't gangs. It was like you had some close friends when you move with that five you move with that 20, not even 20, you move with like five or seven, real close people. It wasn't no games. You know, and then you had opportunities to enter certain clicks if you wanted to. And then you had the opportunity to go to school and learn something that could get you to go, hopefully go to college. Yeah.

And we ain't talking about Harvard. We're talking about community college. And then sometimes you might meet someone that might want to respond to you. Hey, maybe you can stay on track and go to Harvard, go to Temple. But that was very, like, that was very rare. So those are all the opportunities you had. I mean, then you also had opportunities to build a family, but then some of the downfalls was you don't know how to raise a family, right?

Yeah. There's a lot of that stuff happening. Yeah, how do you raise a family under so much pressure? Yeah. You had your first kid at 16, right? I was 16. And I heard you say you planned that. Yeah.

So that was on purpose happening. Yeah, I wanted a baby at 13. That's so early. Yeah, I know. Did you not think, oh, this is a little bit early? Maybe I didn't do that. No, because my whole family is like that. My sister, one of my sisters have eight kids.

The other one has four. Another one has three. My brother has four. My other brother has five. Then I have four. Then my mom has eight. You should know that one. You grew up with your mom.

But two of them was my cousins. We took him out of the hospital. Okay, I got it. Yeah, so we took two of them home with us. That makes sense. And then I have, one of my nephews have five babies. So that's just natural of my family to have babies without thinking about how you're going to raise these babies. How are you going to support these babies?

Good thing you went into the NBA because I would imagine there's a lot of people like, so we need to borrow something so he can go to school and stay out of trouble. I mean, did they come to you for that sometimes? Well, you know, when I first made it, that's what you do. You take care of your family. Absolutely, yeah. So you're what you need? Okay, I got you. Don't worry about it.

Yeah. I had such a big family where I had to eventually restrategize how I helped my family. Yeah, otherwise everybody's going to go. broke, even if you do make 50 million. Yeah, it's not healthy to just give money. No. It's never healthy to just give money. As much as you want to give, you always want to give, like, an experience or you want to give

some education. It goes way further. Otherwise, people just end up with flat screen TVs at Xbox and maybe some food, and then it's back to calling you on your phone. Absolutely. That was a big mistake I made because, you know, I was like, hey, all my nieces and nephews get gifts. Everybody, we go on a toys or us, everybody versus.

I'm going to get you a math book. I'm going to send you to private school. Yeah. I'm going to get you a tutor, right? Oh, you're 18? We're going to get you into a trade school, you know, versus nobody gets gifts, no gifts. Right, yeah.

No gifts, just makes progress. I think that would have been better. But I was young, I was 19 when I made it to an NBA. God, 19. I was so irresponsible at that age. I imagine you probably also were at that age. I was very irresponsible, but, like, there was times where I said, okay,

I'm going to eat. You did have a kid, yeah. That's true. You know, I had a kid, and I had two kids. My second kid was at 18. And then my third kid was at 20. Unbelievable. My fourth kid was at 22.

So they're all adults now. Oh, then again, I'm adults. In college. Everybody's in college. That's crazy to me. We're like the same age, and I have a two and a half year old and a baby on the way. Oh, wow. That's how staggered our kids are, like, how different our situation in life is right now in terms of having kids.

Yeah. So you grew up rough, I know. And I have you quoted as saying, I played basketball so I wouldn't fall into selling guns or drugs. I played so I wouldn't go to jail. Yeah, that was for sure. Because, you know, it's easy to make some money. It was a lot of times the people in my neighborhood that was getting in trouble would just like give me money, you know, just so I don't do nothing. Really? Yeah, like a lot of friends and that's why people, I got a real bond with a lot of people, you know, because they would give me money to make sure I don't get in trouble. Oh, they would give you money just to keep you

doing stuff. Even a dollar, you know, like I go buy a 50-cent bag of chips. And I'm happy for a couple hours. You know, we outside all day. There's nothing else to do. We play basketball. We sit outside on the bench. Then you divel and dabble and get out of trouble. You get in trouble, you know, in different types of trouble. Yeah. And then you can keep getting in trouble or you can go back to the court. And then you go play some football. Then you go to your friend's house. Then it's like, okay, what type of trouble am I going to get into today? You know, what level of trouble? Some people stay at the high level of trouble. And, you know, I was always right under the mid level, you know, of trouble. What does that mean then?

like, you know, maybe a fight. You know, I did flirt with selling drugs a couple times, you know, flirt it with robbing, you know, as a couple times. When we say robbing, is that like breaking into someone's car, house? Well, I never was, well, you always think about these things. Any options available, what are we going? Yeah. When your friends are doing things, I'm going to take this one in today, I'm going to rob this guy.

And you're like, okay, I'm not going to do that one on the menu, but I'll go still some food or I'll go to the store and take something in front of the store, right? You know, you have all these options, you know? Oh, man, it seems like it's really easy then to go from taking a bag of chips from the store. And then your friends are like, yo, this guy, he's got a lot of money. Let's break into his car. I know he's got a gun in there. We can sell it.

And then you're like, okay. You know, like you don't think about it. And then suddenly you realize you just robbed a drug dealer and now you're in trouble. Yeah, the last time I took something, we took food from a store. It was real, I felt really bad. We took food from someone. I think I was like 13. We thought we were just going to take the food and go.

So we take the food. and then this person was following us, was pissed. Sure, yeah. Right? Follow me and my boy. And we were young. They were older. We were taller and bigger, but they were definitely men. And just followed us back into the neighborhood.

We literally had to go upstairs, even though we was home. Yeah. You know, and we could, you know, he's not going to just come out of neighborhood and do anything. But we were like, oh, wow, this dude is following us back to the neighborhood. Pissed, you know, just like delivering food. Yeah. And that was the last time I was. I said, I'm not doing this anymore.

No way. That would escalate it. Oh, yeah. I mean, if he had caught you before you got home, possibly something. It would have been a fight, you know, it would have been bad, you know, it would have been, then it would have been like, oh, what happened? Well, we took the food. Yeah.

Yeah. Then the first time I sold jrug was the last time. Well, I dibble and dabbled a little bit. Yeah, I heard that you learned how to cook crack growing up. Is that true? Yeah, I learned that about maybe 12 or 13. And I mean, that's crazy. You realize that's kind of crazy.

No, when I look back at it, it's crazy. times where I remember police would be knocking on the door, you know, my mom got mad at me on Facebook one time because she's like, my boy wasn't showing no crack, but, you know, when you go outside, you know, your parents, they don't know what the hell you're doing. Right. But, um, do you think she knew and was just being different? No way. I would have got my butt torn. Right. Okay, so she wasn't like, no way. I'm going to turn a blind eye. She was like, I would have with her ass. Oh, no way. I would have got my butt torn and she would have found out. Yeah. Is she still, is your mom still around? Yeah. So, do you think she's, does she know about this now? I mean, I wrapped about it. I talk about it.

Yeah. But I mean, when parents listen to your rap, it's like, my cousins, is her, nephews, you know, she knows what my family was. Yeah, yeah. You know, she knows what they were doing. Yeah, that's, oh, man. I'm with you, man. I don't think my mom would have stood for that. So you started playing basketball on the suggestion of a counselor who saw that you had, what, like an anger management problem? No, that's not why I was playing basketball. I was playing basketball. I started at eight. I got really good about, and I got better at nine, nine, nine and a half, 10, 11, 12, I started, I was playing all time, so I just kept getting better. But then, you know, I was always had anger problems since young.

Even as a kid? Yeah, since, since, since. You know, I got suspended from preschool. You got suspended from preschool? You got suspended from preschool? Kindergarten, fighting. Oh, wow. Kindergarten in first grade.

Every year I was in school, I got suspended. I fired. Did you get suspended every season of the NBA or not? Not every, oh, maybe every season. Maybe every season. Maybe every season, NBA, I got to spend it once. Gotcha. Okay.

So this is a theme. Maybe not the end of my career. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Impress progress. Then I go to a Catholic school. I get suspended from Catholic school. I go to ninth grade.

I'm in Catholic school now. They don't stand for that stuff. I got suspended in Catholic school. Oh, my God. So I didn't get, I got to spend it one time in Catholic school. Ninth grade, then that was it. Then one time in college, but nobody in the world. Always for fighting.

Everything was for fighting. Yeah. So, okay. So where did you get the idea to fight all the time? Like, you must have been angry for a reason. Well, you got to survive, you know, because like people, even though you're bigger, people will try to test you. Yeah. So it has to be a point in time where somebody has to know if you test me, you got a chance to get really hurt.

You know what I'm saying? So most of the time I'm fighting, like one guy skipped me in front of a lunch line and I went to work on them. But that's not normal, right? Like you know that now. It's not normal. Yeah, just all he did was skip me. One guy made fun of me. It was never like I'm just going to go and just.

Yeah, punch a random. It was always like, because somebody did something really small, you know, and I just took it to the next level. But it was just because as growing up as a kid, you just playing tag or you having fun, and then people pick, pick, pick. And then it's like, okay, at what point in time are you going to stand for yourself? So then in my mind, I said, always stand for yourself. Never let anyone believe again. Never let anyone pick on you. So it was like I was always like ready to go.

Do you still get enraged if somebody like cuts you off on the highway or you get you good now? I'm not, I'm too old to be even thinking about that. Yeah. I think, you know, but most of my passions and aggressions are, it goes towards things I love. Like, I want to be successful at something. So I'll put all that that I've gotten me into something like I want to be successful at. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

That's like more of it now. That makes sense. And pardon me for dwelling on this, right? But a lot of people put in passion, but they don't hit people or be, people. up or get in trouble or get suspended or things like that. So I'm wondering, did your parents fight it all growing up? Like, were you seeing a lot of that? Oh, and I was just in the streets.

My parents did fight sometimes, but it was a little both. It was a little bit of both. But in the streets, I mean, the streets is different. Like, I mean, you could roll with a click or you roll by yourself is a different type of person you're going to be. You know what I'm saying? Even though you could, you know, you could choose to ride out with people. But sometimes if you get too deep involved, you win.

Right. So you got to somehow build your own personal army, but just you. Yeah. And you got to be ready to go out for yourself. And that's the type of, you know, I have friends, but I was always like, I'm going to protect myself. Yeah. This sounds like, I mean, it sounds like something you evolve when you grow up in Queensbridge or a place like that. Like you don't just go, I'm going to let that roll off my back because that, that's a bad reputation, be the person who doesn't ever fight back.

No, yeah, you need to be, too many times, too many times. But, you know, one time, you know, I had an issue where somebody was trying to bully me. I got so mad, I went to my room upstairs. I was still, I brought out some scissors. And I was like, okay, you know, I'm just going to go right in front of the crew. And I was by myself with some scissors. Just sat right there. I was ready to go.

Because I'm like, what else am I going to do? I'm new to this. But now I'm like, I want to. You know what I'm like? But the thing was like because, but people, this is the thing about being on neighbor. You don't know what somebody's going through. Even though we see you go outside. We see you chilling, laughing.

but you don't know what that person is going to. You know, so, but it seems like we're all going through the same things, but we're not, you know what I'm saying? We're not going through the, today I'm not having a good day today. You know what I mean? So it's the wrong person to bully today. Yeah. Yeah.

Because it's not even going to happen. We're going to fight. So you almost stabbed somebody with scissors. Well, it didn't get that far. Right. But it's like, was that was the plan or were you just like? The plan was to go. Yeah.

The plan was less rock. Let's get it gone. Do you ever think about how different your life would have been if you had done some of the things that you even just thought about doing as a kid? Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I was very aware, too. So I was aware. I mean, so many times you're in situations, especially, you know, where I'm from, so many times. Some of the greatest basketball players from my neighborhood was in situations.

And you're talking, I'm talking about NBA players, like pro-skill level. You grew up near Lamar Odom, right? 15, 20 minutes away with no traffic. But we had a guy named Kenny Eda played with Lloyd Daniels and Rod Strickland at O'Kee Academy with Carmelo in. Right? You're talking about this type of level talent, he gets shot. You know, he gets shot in the ground. It's krill.

That's awful. Right? You know what I'm saying? Lloyd Newton, Long Island City, he gets stabbed in the heart in a high school game. Dead. Is he the one who got killed on the court? Lloyd Newton, yeah. That's awful.

Everybody should remember his name is a great guy. He got killed with a broken table leg, right? Yeah. Yeah, my buddy, Leakey, is doing a documentary on Queensbridge, and he's going to be in that documentary. You'll learn more about him. It's called Queensbridge Kings. And you'll learn more about Lloyd.

Lloyd will be idolized Lloyd. You know, we idolized Lloyd. But this is the type of things that is like, yeah, what's happening? You know, this 12-year-old is just like, what the hell is happening? How do you navigate this life? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So now it's like, okay, yo, just be ready.

Yeah. Just be ready to go. So you took that mindset onto the court, of course, because why wouldn't you? That's how you grew up. And that, I mean, it arguably didn't serve you so well some of the time, right? I mean, you ended up, well, we'll get to this, but one of the things that you are well known for is things like the malice at the palace, which is probably not something that you consider one of your finest moments, right?

There's a moment. I don't really care about it, honestly. Well, it's been a while. It's been a while. I mean, you're friends with a guy. It's a whole thing now. It's like, it's been so long. but there's a lot of, it's interesting to hear that you sort of made peace with that.

So you're 22 years old. It said, and this is just sort of based on my research, so correct me where it's wrong, because, of course, nobody has the insight to your bank account, but you're 22, and you get a $42 million contract extension after going from Indiana to Chicago. So you're 22 years old. You're looking at $42 million, but you already had a bunch probably because you were, you're already three years into the NBA. Yeah, you make money.

So you say, I actually panicked. Why? It wasn't necessarily panic because, like, I just was like, when I signed that big deal, well, big deal for, it's a big deal. That's a big deal for anybody. It's a big deal. It was not in comparison to my talent, no, like to what type of person at my talent level was? They were getting 10, 12 at that time. But it was a big deal.

$42 million at age 22 is good from nothing. From literally, for anyone. No one in the world is going to go, that's a rip off, right? I mean, yes, maybe. NBA players will say that's a ripoff. Really? Of course. I guess that makes sense.

Why wouldn't you? Of course. NBA players, it's a ripple. But now when you think about life, I was like, you know, this is crazy. Like never in my wildest dream. You know, and then I was like, wow, I'm able to take care of my family. I'm able to do a lot of different things. And then meanwhile, I get suspended the first year into the contract.

Oh, man. You know, the first year in the contract, I'm like, good Lord. So when you get suspended, I take it, you just don't get paid. They don't get paid. They just don't send you to check. That's the whole point of the suspension. Yeah. Otherwise, nobody would care, right?

Yeah, he's just going. Why did you say I actually panic? What was that all about then? I don't know, but I think I did say that, you know, kind of my answers changed from time to time, but I think what happened was, I was like, goddamn, what the fuck do you do with this money? Yeah. It's a little intimidating. What the hell are you do, man?

What do you do with it? Yeah. I never really prepared to have $42 million. No. You know, which is 21 after tax. But, you know. That's funny that you just knew that right away because you were probably like, wait a minute. I only got half.

What happened? Hey, man. Gonna have a conversation about 10. You had a nervous breakdown, though, at age 21. You said you had to pull over to the side of the road. This is maybe before you had signed, but you said, I'm trying to escape something. What is that?

Well, now I know what the breakdown was. Right. So at that point, it was, I was 21. I was in the league, and I knew I was approaching contract time. So that was on my mind. Then I also was young and in the streets, you know, trying to figure out,

what are you going to do? you're going to be in these streets or you're going to be playing basketball. So that was something that I was juggling away a little bit. And then not really addressing suppressed issues. So then what really happened was the alcohol. Because I think about it wasn't drinking that much alcohol. I think those issues I had would have literally been. So you were drinking a bunch as well?

I was drinking a ton. Even during the NBA, that seems like a hard thing to do. No, it's easy because you go, I mean, I'm in shape and I work hard and I can go through any amount of pain. So feeling tired is not a thing to me, right? Being hungover during practice. Being hungover is not a thing. It was times where a couple times where I was totally drunk in practice. Really?

For sure. Oh, wow. Totally drunk. Your coach must have been like, yo. Oh, you smell the alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking reaping of alcohol.

Oh, man. But I'm coming in. I'm sweating it out as I go and I'm sweating it out. And midway through practices all out and I'm here. Yeah. You know, and I'm here and we're working and I'm putting it work. But with that being said, when you talk about the alcohol, part. Yeah, you can sweat it out, but it's a depressing, right? Like alcohol, right? It's a downer.

It's a downer. Right. So for alcohol being a downer, you're going to fill down, right? So the alcohol is not making anything better. Right. Okay. I see what you said. I'm drinking alcohol every day to say, you know what, I'm not going to worry about any problems. I'm not worried about no issues. I'm just going to drink some alcohol and, oh, I feel so good. Let's go out. But you didn't solve nothing. Yeah, you're just postponing your problem. But when you're 21, 22, you're not really thinking about that. You're not thinking about that. Yeah. But it's a major problem. Major problem to me. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Meta World Peace. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting this show. I know we've got some advertisers here. All those codes, URLs, those discount

things that are all in one place. We redid the page. It should work great on your phone. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals is where that's at. Please do consider supporting those who make this show possible, namely the sponsors. Now, back to MetaWorld Peace. So after this is going on, or during while this is going on, you're drinking, you're trying to balance basketball and drinking, you went to play for the Bulls, you're 22, you're making $42 million or whatever, and you get a part-time job at Circuit City. What is going on there? When I got drafted to the Bulls, and when I was 19 old, I got a part-time job at Circuit City. Okay. So when I first got drafted, I always wanted to work. You know what I'm saying? I always wanted to work. And, you know,

Like not play professional sports necessarily, but also have a regular job. Yeah, it just work. You know what I'm saying? I thought it was really good that I did it, honestly. And I did it for it because I was after practice, I just going to the streets, doing whatever. And it's just like, I got to have something else to do. Oh, so you were worried you were going to get in trouble. For sure.

I needed something else to do because I was just like, I'll do anything, you know. So you're playing for the Bulls and you're working at a circuit city in like, is it like in, the city of Chicago? It was in our next to our practice facility. So people had to come in and be like, you kind of look like Ron Artex. Yeah, that was it. Yeah.

That was it. Did that cause a disruption? Or were you like, nah, I hear that all the time? No, no, no. I say, yeah. I'm fucking wrong. I mean, I'm 19 years old. Yes, it's me.

And do you want a TV, man? Yeah, like, this TV's here. This is a great TV. This is VCR. Like, this is DVDs. You want some DVDs? The DVD section is right here. Didn't word travel that Ron Artest is also selling TVs at Circuit City?

It did travel. Yeah. For sure travel. When you, you said when I have time, I get into trouble, so that explains why you got the job. But when you said that I had to rewind a few times because another interviewer had asked you why you got a job at Circuit City. And you literally said, and I thought this has me as you. You said I wanted the discount.

Oh, the discount. Oh, fush. Oh, you did. Realize you're making like $42 million. No, no. This is when I was making a million, which is $500,000. I have taxed. Actually, a little bit more than $500,000.

But, you know, this is when I got my first contract. Right. So I got my first contract. But still like, okay, so you're making a million plus dollars a year at year. Okay, fine, 500,000 after taxes, which is like what a surgeon makes at a hospital. And you're like, but I need the discount. I mean, the discount was incredible because, you know, because meanwhile, you got to think about it. I'm taking care of my family.

That's true. Yeah. Right. So I can't just buy anything I want at this point in time. So when you're 19 and you got this much money, you think this is the most money in the world. Right. By the way. Sure.

It's literally not, right? Right. But you think, so for me, I'm like, oh, wow, I'm rich. Yeah. But I'm like, why am I worried about something that costs $5,000 if I'm really that rich, right? I'm looking at the numbers and the money's leaving the account. So in my mind, I'm just like, I need this discount. You know what I'm saying?

Do they not limit how many things you can buy with your discount? I guess they figure you probably also don't think $500,000. Yeah. I bought DVDs, that's when it was hot. Yep. I bought a stereo system for my apartment that I was paying maybe $3,000 a $1,000 a $1,000,000, month for, right? I bought a stereo system from my apartment. I bought

for my car. I think I bought a stereo system for my car. And I bought, that was what I mainly bought. That's really funny, though. I mean, you eventually had to leave because I think that the league said, hey, man, it's not good for you. It wasn't the league. It was, um, Jerry, J. J. Koss was like, why are you working at Circus

City? Like, I don't want to get arrested. Did you tell him? I don't want to get in trouble? No, no, I didn't say anything. I just, I just said, I'm not going on. I can't go back. But the general manager at Circuit City was incredibly nice. He said, you really want to work? I said, yeah, I would like to work here. You know, he just, you know, gave me the papers.

Yeah. I'm sure he thought that you were messing with him at some point. Yeah, I mean, he kind of at first, but, you know, great guy, gave me the papers and wow. Great guy, right? That's, I'm surprised. Hey, if you had still been there, maybe they wouldn't have gone out of business with all the money you were throwing back into the company.

RIP, Circuit City, man. I know. That's got to be a first for an NBA player to have a part-time job doing retail sales. Some people still go to college. That's true, but... It's different. That's different than being like, I want to sell Britney Spears. Some people should.

Yeah, well, I think you're probably right. If you're like a G-League player making $35,000, you know, maybe you should get a worker-saker city. Did you think maybe the NBA would go away and it was good that you had a job? Was there any sort of like, this is my backup plan? I always wanted, like I said, I was always in between streets, education, and ball. Yeah. So when I was 13, I said I wanted to be a junior high school math teacher.

my goal to make $35,000. I knew $35,000 would be enough to eat some food, and I'll be a math teacher, and perfect. I don't need to be in the streets. No guns, no drugs, yeah. Yeah, I'm good. So that's when I started taking math real serious. Then when I became better at basketball, I was, oh, well, I got a chance to go pro. But then when I was first going to college, my major with architecture. I went to Notre Dame, St. John's, Miami of Ohio, Miami University, and Providence. those are the five schools. These are good schools. And architecture is a really, really tough major for people who don't know.

It's really tough. It's almost like trying to become a doctor or something like that or a lawyer. It's really tough. Miami had a great architect program. Notre Dame had a great architect program. And they were ready to support what I wanted. I said, listen, I'm not a great student, but I'm going to put it in work. But then the other school, St. John's didn't have a great program.

Providence didn't have a great program. And then Miami-Hia didn't have a great program. For architecture. For architecture. So then I picked Miami to go to Miami. But then the day of when I was picking, I had a change of heart. I went to St. John. Oh, okay.

Yeah. But then I went to St. John. I mean, you had to choose basketball over architecture if you got a chance to go pro in the NBA. There's no architect that makes as much as you're in the NBA. But they actually put me in an engineering school. They put me in the engineering school my first semester. And I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm like, okay, cool.

I'm going to go into engineering school. Wow. But practice was that 545 a.m. So it was really hard to do that and that. So I just dropped it. Oh, man. That's a lot of work, man. I mean, as you know, you say that you got the part-time job because if you have time, you get in trouble.

But then I read, look, he's drinking Hennessy cognac in the locker room at halftime while with the Bulls. During games? I did that, like, maybe twice. Okay. Because that tells me you don't need a lot of time to get into trouble. Like, you're in there at halftime, like, you know? Like twice. It was at one time I was just like, whatever with this NBA stuff, you know?

Like, just like, you know what? I think it was, I think for me, I didn't have to. chance to pause and just, like, reflect and really just assess, you know, the problems I thought was huge problems, which was very small problems. Yeah. When I look back at it. That's interesting. So little problems kind of sounds like they overwhelmed you a little bit at that age.

I just didn't want no issues. You know, I wanted clean. I wanted easy. I wanted the easy way, you know, and then when any little thing happens, I just couldn't really just get over it, you know? Yeah. Well, I just drink and I just drink. You had some antics that made the news, right?

not just the fighting and stuff, but there's a, in February 2004, you wore a bathrobe over your practice uniform to a Pacer's practice as a symbolic reminder to take it easy, which I, honestly, that idea has legs. I'm going to start podcasting in a bathrobe. But like some of these antics going out to Jimmy Kimmel in your boxer shorts, like, what's going on here? Was that for attention? Life. What do you mean that's life? There's a lot of people that go on TV that are fully clothed. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't know what you're saying at all. You're going on your boxes. Who cares? Okay, that's the thing.

First of all, thanks for wearing pants to this interview. I don't judge it. Well, I mean, I just felt like, hey, who cares? Like, Jimmy's great, by the way. Yeah. It's like, you know, you put on your boxes. You go on TV. People would take model pictures on billboards in their boxes.

But it's just like, it's the scene, right? It's the scene that you. And with my robe, I was just like, I didn't feel like wearing a suit that day. I didn't want to wear a suit. I want to be in my robe. I was in bed. We're going to a meeting. This is my mind now.

It's not the right way to approach it. Sure. I'm not saying I approach the right way, but I'm saying in my mind, I'm just like, I don't need a suit to tell people that we're going to win a title. Like, this is it. We're going to win a title. I see you guys later.

I mean, you can understand why people might go, is he okay? Right? Like, that was probably a lot of- Everybody was in a suit. I was in a row. Yeah, or like you show up on Jimmy Kimmel and your boxers, which, by the way, people loved. And it was a funny clip.

But it was almost like, does he know that this is funny? I was in a really great shape also. You were in good shape. So that was in one of the other things. I was such good shape. A lot of women were like, oh, let me pay attention to this. That wasn't part of it. No?

I was just, I didn't work out for women. I worked out for me. Good for you. You know what I'm saying? I work out for me. And when you are in your prime, it's like, oh my goodness. Do y'all see this world? Yeah.

Well, look, man, you got the most out of life when it came to the media, I think. But I wonder what it was like or what it is like. Because your life for a while, not for always, but for a while, was based on some of your worst moments or one of your worst moments, especially Mao's at the palace, which happened in front of millions of people, you know, for people who don't know, there was like all this craziness going on. You ended up going to the stands and hitting a fan. Well, you hit the wrong guy, but the guy who you didn't hit. It wasn't the wrong guy. It wasn't the wrong guy? Oh, okay. The story is that it was a wrong guy. Yeah, there's a bunch of stories out there's a bunch. It's

hard to get it straight. But the guy who I hit, he bet John $50. Oh, you got that guy. All right. So, they were both Aholes. Yeah. But like, you know, that made international news. Millions of people saw it. I think we can agree not one of your finest moments, right? And you elbowed James Hardin in the head in a separate incident. He got a concussion. There's just a lot of like, by the way, if any of my questions get on your nerves, just know that getting punched in the face live on a show might be the big break I need. But like what I'm getting at here is what's going on your head during those days? You mentioned that you can't, you had trouble sort of like dealing with anger. Obviously that's the case. But what goes to your head? Is it just blank at that point?

Not really. I mean, the brawers. That was simple. somebody hit me. Yeah. That's like, you know, a simple solution to a problem. Like if someone throws something at you, you just don't let somebody throw something at you. But it was made, it was painted as he was stressed and he was depressed. It's still painted as that, but when you look at it frame by frame, you can never paint

someone in a light where if someone hits them, then they hit someone back. that the person that hit the person back is under mental pressure. You know what I'm saying? Well, of course. I mean, it's called self-defense if it happens right here. Yeah, yeah. It's called self-defense everywhere. Yeah.

I mean, when you're in such a big profession and big industry, you know, in sports, sports profession, big industry. So from that perspective, you know, it's not right here, right? Right. Well, also, if the person's trying to get away or they're no longer to threat, you're not supposed to go after them, that's sort of the exception to that. But why were you so unable to process that kind of anger? I mean, you were laying on the scoring table to try and process the anger.

It happened quick. It didn't happen quick. I got hit and then I reacted. It wasn't processing nothing. It was just like a gut reaction. I mean, if someone get punched, I don't think if somebody got punched in their face, I don't think they take five minutes to think about it.

Generally not, but a lot of people would run away. Never. Like I would run away. Yeah, I mean, that's you. Like, well, I'm a whim. If I got punched in my face, I'm not going to sit there and just be like, okay, I just got punched in my face. What should I do?

By the way, I got to go to the store and pick up groceries. Do I attack? Oh, I got to make a phone. No, it's like, I just got punched in my face. Who the hell did it? That's it. That's like human nature. And you had gotten people.

What, a Diet Coke? No, it was a beer. A beer, okay. Yeah, that's right. It was a beer. And yeah, no, I saw the video. I mean, we'll post the video in the show notes. People who are in that situation would be really pissed.

Yeah, so that's like not like a, that's just a moment. That just has life. Were you that way off the court as well? Off the court. I mean, off the court is like, my life is kind of different from holding the court. But did you get in fights off the court as well at that time? I've never gotten to fight off the court in the NBA while I was playing professional. I mean, like, let's say that game ends. You go to a bar, someone steps on you and shut you.

I've never gotten to a fight. No? While I was playing an NBA off the court. Really? Okay. So this was mostly only during the games that we saw this sort of aggressive behavior. Yeah. Huh. I've heard you say you were intimidating. Yeah, I've never gotten into a fight off the court in NBA. No. Okay. Interesting. I haven't gotten in a fight since it's a high school. Not even high school.

Like a real, besides like on the court, you know, real aggressive. But I haven't gotten to a fight off the court. Like, I've heard you say you were intimidated by some of the other players. I can't remember who it was. Maybe like, you know what, I'm drawing a blank. You were intimidated by some of the other star players. So you had to be kind of mean and overly aggressive. No, it wasn't that.

It was, I used to play against some intimidating players before the NBA. Sure. Okay. You know, and then when I was going to the NBA, I'm like, these guys is big. You know, so I'm like, in order, in my mind, in order to survive, you got to be ready to fight, you know what I'm saying? You know, and if you watch the 80s and 90s and the 70s, guys were fighting. It wasn't, you know, and I grew up under the Nick era. So in my mind, I'm like, I'm going to be ready for this.

You know, especially when I got there, I'm like, I'll be ready. I'll be ready for this type of basketball. You said, I wish I was Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, but I'm not. I have a lot of emotions going through me. I think you were probably talking about emotional management, not necessarily basketball skills. Basketball skill. Oh, you were talking about basketball skills? My goals were to be the best.

My goals was never to be, like, you know, second. You know, some people goals are to be the best and they actually become the best. Some people goals are to be the best and they don't become the best. My goals was to be the best. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a champion attitude. That's it, yeah. And still, to this day, it's hard for me to come down from that type of mindset.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. With the exception of I'm okay with not being the best because I did my career. The stats are what it is and I'm okay with that. but then I still know when I was a kid, I, you know, at one point in time,

I wanted to be the best, right? So that, I still have that, you know, in me. Yeah, well,

the sort of like, overachiever or competitive, anyway. Competitive, competitive, yeah. Do you have that with,

podcasting now that you have your... No, I don't have that, but podcasts. A podcasting is fun. Like, I'm not trying to be the number one podcast.

Okay, good. I'm just checking. I'm just checking. I just want to have, I just like to talk. Yeah. I just love to talk about

interesting things. I totally. Well, you're in a good industry for that. So you get a sports doctor to help you relax. Do you think that if you had better emotional management back then, you could have achieved more as a player? Oh, for sure. I achieved a ton as a player.

You did? Yeah. I would have doubled that up. Yeah. For sure, doubled it up. So instead of just staying out of trouble, you could have gone beyond what you had gone, beyond what you've done. I mean, when you talk about the numbers of the awards,

I have about, so a defense player of the year, And I love talking about these because I'm so grateful, by the way, of these accolades. But defense player of the year, All-Star, First-Team All-Defense, First Team All-Defs, second team, second team, third team on NBA, champion. And I think that's it. So then now you take away the Brawl year, that was going to be another All-Star, another all-team all-team defense, another all-team NBA, that's 11, another potentially defensive player of the year award. So that's 12. and then you go to the next year. Now the next year, I got suspended from the paces now, okay?

Keep that in mind. So then I was detrimental to the team. So then that's another, so it's 12. That's another All-Star. That's 13. That's another all-defensive team. That's maybe an all-defense player in a year, maybe, right? Oh, yeah.

That's 15. And then I was traded, and then I was kind of floating on other teams. But let's just say I stayed in Indiana. So that's at least two more All-Stars, at least one more All-Stars. at least one more all NBA team, right? So that's about, you're talking about another 12 awards.

You know, that's not counting like 2009, 2010 when I was in my prime. Sure. So who knows? So, you know what I'm saying? So I'm potentially only at a third. Oh, really? So the amount of. It's interesting.

So in your head, you have like a path where you didn't make all those sort of mistakes and another path where you're- For sure, and I'm fine with that. And my career, I'm so happy with should or what or coulda. because this is a real should or what I could have. And let me tell you something. I feel really good about it. I feel really good.

I'm really happy that I have what I have and I'm really happy just always thinking about I could have had another award. I finished six in MVP voting the year before I got suspended. That could have been an MVP. I always wanted to get MVP. I didn't get it, but you want to know something? I'm okay with that.

Well, you have no other choice but to be okay. Well, I guess you could be better about it. I guess you could be better. Well, I did get rid of all my awards, by the way. I know that you got rid of all that, and you even sold one of your rings. We'll talk about that in a bit. So I'm not good with it, but I am. You did get the sports doctor to sort of help you handle stress differently or help

handle... Sports therapy. Sports therapy to handle the anger differently. Do you think a lot of players need the help that you sought and the help you got, but maybe they were afraid to ask for it? I mean, it was some play... If you look at the history of sports, say NBA. Look at the history of NBA players and there's some documented problems?

Yeah. So with those documented problems, I think, you know, I wonder if a sports therapy could really help. Yeah. And I wonder if these plays actually search sports therapy. I love sports therapy. A lot of the people that I interview on the show will say things like, man, if they knew how to handle, I interviewed a famous mobster. And he said, if they knew how to handle learning disabilities when I was a kid, I would never have joined the mob. And he's a mob hitman.

You know, you're saying, hey, this is what I probably would have done if I had been able to control my It's just interesting to see mental health become a focus of people as they get older, especially people who have achieved a lot. Well, mental health is a hot topic and is a very lucrative industry. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think the non-lucrative industry and the most important part of mental health is at the foundation. And at the foundation is the family, right?

So the stronger the family, the less likely someone is going to grow up with mental health issues. Because you always have your dad and your mom to always go back to and get that real advice. Yeah. Right? Get that real love, that real advice that came from your mom and came from your dad. And not everybody has that. So with that being said, then you have things that pal up, which turns into depression, turns into anxiety. Then it's so much, it turns into an illness.

It turns, not even an illness, before the illness, it turns into, you might need some medication to suppress. Then from suppression, you either born with a chemical imbalance or you're going to develop a mental illness. because there's just so much going on in your brain. You know, so I think at the foundation is the most important piece that I like to kind of talk about. Everyone talks about how nice you are now, which is kind of a plot twist, isn't it,

from back in the day? You felt like you had to hate your opponent to play ball. Everyone from the fans to the cameraman to other players. I've heard you say something along those lines. For sure. That's more like a boxing mentality, though, right? Yeah, when I went into an arena, I normally did not like anyone.

But it's just crazy because, like, I was so competitive. I don't even know if I was competitive. I think I was just so over-the-top crazy competitive. Yeah, it was like irrational levels of competition. For sure. Because, like, Kobe's competitive, but you don't see. Right, he's not as irrational. Right.

Yeah, for sure. I was very irrational. I'm going to look that up and make it in context, but I've never put it like that. But it just, it was unnecessary competitive. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm in practice and I'm just so hungry. I see the 11th player on the bench, the 13th player trying to make the roster. I just want to demolish them, you know?

I don't want to give them a shot. I'm in there taking the ball from these kids that's trying to make the team. Because my thing was work harder than every single person that touched this floor. Why? Because I was in survival mode. Like, you know, and then when I get into the game, it's the same thing you start in the game, the same thing you start in the game, the same thing you start in practice. I'd be in practice.

Once I was in practice, in practice, I was in practice, I was in practice, He said, Ron, slow down. Slow down. Today, we're only going 20%. 20. He's screaming the top of his lungs. And I'm like, all right. All right.

Next year, go. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Me. Fast, fast, everything. Hustle, hustle, hustle, rebound, box out, attack. Like, in practice, he said, I told you to slow.

You must have been. I told you to slow down. Stop. And I was just like, oh, my God. I need to get 100% today. Do you think you were insecure? Is that why you did that? I probably was insecure. Oh, for sure. I think so. And I don't know if that's why, but yeah, everything adds up, right?

Yeah. I just think, like, I just thought that if I don't work hard, then I'm not, I'm, I feel like it's over. That's what I felt like, man. I feel like if I don't go hard, it was something I couldn't get over. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was just really weird. I felt very, what would you call it? Not even unprepared, scared, sort of. Mm-hmm. Like, if I didn't give 100% today. And then when I would lose, I don't know. I think I was scared of losing. Because did you feel like it meant something about you if you lost?

Yeah, when I lost, I couldn't handle it. As you can see. So most of my issues, if you do the math, came after loss. Yeah. You've said that you're a sore loser, and that you're right. A lot of the big sort of negative events were from a loss. Like, with the exception of the brawl, which I didn't start, we were winning, so I was okay. But when you look at the Nick incident in the garden, when I broke the camera, that was after loss.

When you look, at one time we lost against the paces, when I was in the end, I just threw over a bunch of stuff, broke pictures, in the locker room. After a loss, in Chicago broke pitches, you know, taking it, throwing off the wall. Like, maybe Michael Jordan's pitches, take it off the wall. You know, we get into the plane, we lose against Dallas. I take the food and throw all the food on the floor.

Everybody's food. Throw it on the floor, right? Yeah, like, you know, that's how I was. And we would lose, even in practice, I would get so mad. And I thought, like, this was healthy, but then it's like, okay, practice is over. Imagine this.

I'm so pissed off after loss, practice is over, and I just can't get over it. Oh, man. So I'm just, I'm thinking about this for tomorrow's practice all day. Yeah, that's it. That's a, that's, it's no way to live, though, right? There's no way to live. It's no way to live.

It's no way to live. It's funny to think back on it, probably. Although people were probably pissed you through all the food on the floor. They're all hungry after the game, and they're like, we lose and now I can't even eat. I did that once, maybe once or twice. But, and then when I spoke to my therapist, we spoke about, stop, basically, stop wanting to be the best. Like, be okay with second place.

I need a balance. You know what I'm saying? So after the point of my career, I took away all that stuff that made me great. I just, I had to tone it down. I had to tone it down. So some games we would lose, I had to go home happy. I had to go home happy. That's tough.

It's very tough. It's easier to win. Very tough. Very tough. This is the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, meta world peace. We'll be right back. Now for the rest of my conversation with meta world peace. So you win the 2010 championship. You think, and the confetti's coming down. You're wearing the hat with the jerseys, you know, still sweating. They put the hat on you or whatever. You hold up

the seizure. You thank your shrink who said, thanks to my doctor who helped me relax. Something along those lines. Not a lot of people shout out their shrink during the presser after a championship. But it does take strength to sort of wear the most vulnerable. part or even the most damaged part of yourself on your sleeve. So I'll give you props for that. I think a lot of people were like, wow, you know. A lot of people said you're crazy. I'm like, the last thing on my mind was worrying about what people were saying. I'm like, y'all got to be out of your mind. If you're going to think, have y'all going to think I'm going to feel insecure about this moment. Yeah. This lady was incredible. Yeah, it's also like you're kind of

past that, right? Like, I don't think it's a secret that you had. I think most people gave you credit for getting treatment at that point. It was incredible. It was just incredible. You know, it was incredible about it. So I got a ton of hard. I work hard. So I work hard enough. I work hard enough where I'm prepared. But sometimes in big moments, I was worried about too much. Like, I was worried about the winning. You know, I'm worried about winning. I'm not present.

If you're in a moment, you're not thinking about winning. You're thinking about what you're going to do right now. Okay. That's going to get you to win. I see. I was never present. You were never present. I see.

So you were thinking about the win of the loss and it was taking you out of the game. Yeah, it's too much. For the last two years, working with her, if you look at my series against the Lakers, before I got to the Lakers, everything was going into the way. I was shooting the ball. average in 22 or 25, something like that. Pointing so well.

And look, when I got to the Lakers, I wasn't worried about that. Even when I hit that big shot, I wasn't celebrating, but it was like all these tools that she gave me. Were you ever afraid during your career that, like, therapy, medication might hurt your game?

Because do you think it maybe gave you an edge to be that anger? I never took medication during my career. Okay. And even when I thank my psychiatrist, on national TV, she was a psychologist. She texted me after. And she said, great job, thank you.

But did you know that I'm not a psychiatrist? I said, oh, I thought you were the psychiatrist. I thought you was my psychiatrist. She said, no. I'm your psychologist. Oh, okay. Like, what's the difference between the two? Yeah, what's the difference?

At that point of time, I've never ever thought about what's a difference. Yeah. Most people don't even know that there is a difference. But I thought it was a great statement because it showed people, I thought it might have been even a bigger statement. I mean, it's kind of hard to. Did she ever recommend? I mean, she can't prescribe medication, but did anybody ever give you medication?

No. Or recommend medication? No, early in my career. Early in my career, yeah. Yeah, but when I started to get diagnosed, it was, I was diagnosed a ton, and I didn't take medication. What did they diagnose you with? Anger management, depression. Well, there's a depression.

Depression, okay. Yeah, like, well, actually it wasn't. It was really, it was for sure depression and anxiety, for sure. But that was, yeah, that was pretty much it. So then I started to do a lot of therapy over the years. Yeah. Well, you are a man of contradictions, right? You're crazy, aggressive in fighting on the court.

Then you change your last name to world peace. you had to give up a pet dog because of various... Oh, I was sick about that. And then you end up in a PETA ad representing like the loving hair of animals. Yeah, so I love... I like Peter. I don't have no interest with Peter.

Well, yeah, you were in the commercial with Peter. But what happened was, um, so I bought, and in Indiana, I bought, it was about $100,000 and I spent about $125,000 on, um, basically a barn for my dogs, right? So I built this barn for my dog. Like a giant dog house. Giant dog house, right? And I had gates.

around my property. So when I told the guy to build the gates, I said, hey, I want to let my dogs out. So I need you to build these gates in the grass. And I paid for it, right? So then he builds it. My neighbors are saying, your dog's coming out. Your dog's coming out.

One of my dogs got hit by a tractor trailer. Oh, no. My little puppy got ran over by a tractor trailer. My other puppy got hit by a tractor trailer, right? This is what's happening. And I call a guy, I said, you gotta fix this, man. This is ridiculous.

Yeah. Like my dogs are dying out on the street, and I got this big property. I had 20, I was saved the dogs from the main society, and I get really passionate about it. I don't have dogs anymore because I lost too many dogs. You know, I lost maybe three or four dogs. I had 20 dogs, right? 20 dogs. Most people in the NBA collect cars and stuff, you're collecting dogs.

I would save them from the main society before they get put down. So I would just take them in when I can. And then this group, dog killer, dog killer, dog killer. So when it happened, I was in court, they show up in court. In my mind, I wanted to say, get the fuck out of here. I wanted to curse these people out so bad. You're like, I'm saving dogs, not killing dogs. I didn't even care about saving dogs.

I'm just like, I just wanted to curse them out. Because I'm like, please get away from me right now. They were getting on your last nerve. They were on my last nerve. So then I moved to Sacramento. And what's crazy was that was in Indiana when that happened. I moved to Sacramento. I bring my dogs with me.

Once again, I build a kennel. I say, you know, I'm spending money. Please do this the right way. I don't want my dogs to get out. Yeah. I had a big, great dame. I'm on the road. I get a call from my neighbor.

Your great dame just got hit by a tractor trailer. Oh, my God. Right? Every bone is damn there broke. Are you kidding me? That's terrible. Oh, my goodness. It was the worst time of life.

It was so bad. And at that point I said, I'm not doing no more dogs. I'm not getting no more dog. It was terrible. I'm like, guys, built a deal. damn fence the right way. Like, what do you? That's crazy to me.

It was really tough, so I don't have no more dogs. I'm so, like, traumatized from my experience. So I gave all my dogs back to different people, the Humane Society. And that's kind of the story with the dogs. I had to eat that. I had to eat that. Yeah, that's really sad. Really sad.

Really, really sad. Tell me about your focus on mental health and what you're doing here. What do you hope to achieve? You know, why is it so important to you? Mental health is very important. But to me, personally, before I came out, and then everyone was like, you did something really great. That was not the plan, did not know that was going to happen.

But for me personally, it's important because, like, one, I can pay for a therapy, right? Marriage counseling, parenting class. I was doing all type of therapy. But some people can't afford that, right? So how can you empower people to be able to afford mental health services? So that's like something that's really important to me. Then two, at the foundation, when you look at somebody like me, other people, other athletes, Or anybody, just in general, a lot of business people have been going through it.

Yeah. All the business people go through it. So when you look at that, it's like, how did you grow up? Right. So the foundation, I was like, the foundation is the most important piece. So now what we did was change the mission statement from our test university, my 501C3, where focuses on mental health. We changed it to teaching the importance on parenting and partnerships to little kids.

Because the kids is learning how to treat women with disrespect. They're learning how to treat, you know, women like hos and bees. Right. Well, if you treat them like hos and bees and you make a baby with that person, you got this picture in your mind that to disrespect them, well, what are you going to do when you have a baby and you marry them? Right. And then what is that baby going to do when you're going through this arguments and the baby's just sitting there watching? Right. So you're trying to focus on the family. I'm trying to focus on the family. I think that's the most important piece. I think that's the most important piece. And it's still

mental health because if you empower the family early or if you can give them some tools to get diversity. You know, what about when it's time when that point comes where it's either stick it out or get divorced? These parents that have been together 35 years, I'm sure they had these moments. Yeah. I'm sure they had these moments, you know, where it was divorce time and they stuck it out. And 40 years together and it looks beautiful. I'm sure they had the issues. How do you get to that point? Like, what's the reference point? How do you make it that far? And then all their children that get married, they've been together 20 years. The other kids, 15 minutes. That's beautiful. It creates a good pattern for the rest of the family. Yeah.

And it sounds like you didn't grow up necessarily with that. I did initially. So my parents were together. We went to church every Sunday. I grew up like that. But then they separated at 13. But before that time, it was like different things they were going through. As a parent.

I don't like to tell a story at the time. But I think it's important that people know because they were going through things and we see this stuff. Yeah. I know your dad was kind of a hard guy to live with to say to leave. Both. Both parents were. No, I mean, he was great and then it was hard. Well, yeah, of course it's mixed, but yeah.

You know, he was a boxer and kind of like a rough, he's a little bit rough on you when you were young as well. It was great. The roughness on me was like, he just maybe knew I can deal with it. It was incredible. But, you know, from that perspective, I think the family, like, you've got to understand

that the kids is watching. And that's why I took parenting class. I'm like, listen. You took a parenting class? For sure, when I was in 2007. I was doing three therapy sessions back to back, anger management, marriage counseling, parents, and class. Good for you.

Good for you. I was trying to figure it out. You're attacking the problem. Trying to figure it out. So you donated a bunch of your NBA salary from the 2011, 2011, 2012 season toward mental health awareness charities. You auctioned off your championship ring donated the proceeds to various mental health charities nationwide. That's a real commitment. That's not like going on a PSA commercial and being like mental health, hashtag whatever.

Yeah, I feel like, you know, like I'm a passionate guy, right? Yeah. In my mind, I'm like, we're going to do a 501c3. We're going to raise so much money for people. That was in my mind. Yeah. But when I realized it was so difficult, I thought it was going to be easy. Like, you see, I'm really passionate about this.

You see people need help. Everybody give me a million dollars. Everybody gave me a million dollars. That ring. It's not that easy, but that was more like, let's start. Let's just do it. Okay, we got a ring. We did this.

All right, cool. Let's raffle the ring off. Let's start. Let's get this process started. Let's not wait anymore. and that was what it was. Do you ever watch older videos of any interviews of yourself or anything like that and just kind of wonder what's going on?

I'm asking because there's clips on YouTube of a reporter asking if she should call you Ron or Meta, and you said, and I'm paraphrasing, wasn't Jesus really smart for designing humans so they lose their baby teeth when their children instead of adults because adults would look really weird with baby teeth? Like, do you ever watch that and go, what the hell was I thinking?

That was funny. It was funny, but also people were kind of like, are you okay, man? So at that point in time I was doing stand-up comedy, Okay. I really love comedy. I'm not in that mode anymore. Okay.

But so when I was doing all these sound bites on television, it was to really get the attention of people. Okay. That's what I wanted. So I used the media. I used the NBA media to often get attention. Because I always wanted to be an entertainer. The problem was I was getting in trouble.

So I was on TV for things I didn't want to be on TV for. Right. I want to be on TV for even doing music or making somebody laugh, making a joke, maybe coming on with a funny hat, you know, stuff like. that. So I used often, like, that type of stuff. I actually went on comedy tour. Oh, interesting. I actually went on improv. They signed me to a contract. I did see a little bit of that. I just stand up. You know, it's comedy, right? It's like, right? It's like, let's say it.

Okay, that makes more sense. Because if you don't know that and you see these videos, you kind of think, am I watching this guy have, like, a breakdown right now? Or is this the beginning of like a mental health crisis? Because that's not, like, normal reply to that question. And it got picked up so much. It did, yeah. It got millions of views at that point. time. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And people were laughing. A lot of people in LA, small group, people knew I was doing comedy. Okay. You know what I'm saying? So then

people started booking me, you know, for these shows, and I stopped doing it because comedy's hard. Comedy is hard. It's almost like it's a skill. Yeah. It's really hard, man. It's very different. Yeah, it's a different set of skills. It might look easy when somebody's just up there performing. I really love it, but it's really hard. Yeah.

Like anything. Like anything. You learned a lot from Kobe Bryant about how to manage yourself on the court, basketball skills, but also you mentioned that you were almost mentored by him with business skills and things for retirement. How do you know who to trust in your life when it comes to business, money, and things like that? Because a lot of people want to take advantage of guys in your position. Well, you know, I think I would say some people might, some people would like to see, you know, genuinely see you be successful. Let's just talk about it from an athlete perspective.

Yeah. I think the more educated you are early, the better decisions you can make. You know, like I said, I wasn't really focused on economic science early in my career. I had great agents. So sometimes you can get a great agent and they can just advise you. I had great agents, great managers, you know, which I'm very fortunate.

Yeah, you got lucky. Not everybody does. No, some people get robbed, right? Some people do it. But then also the flip side, having a good agent and a good manager, it doesn't always align with your career. I'm not sure if you had this experience,

but you want to do something and then somebody else says, no, let's do this. Right. For your business career, for your creative, your entrepreneurial spirit. They probably tried to keep you away

from doing comedy, right? Well, I was, maybe. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, it's hard. They probably wanted you to focus, I would imagine, on the things that were paying the bills. But I was really intrigued with, like, how athletes, I was an athlete, how do you really take control over your stuff?

So, like, right when I was retiring, I was going for my Series 7. You went for your Series 7? Yeah. When I retired, I was going to do one or four things, because I said, whatever you're going going to do, I'm going to do it full time, because I'm all in. Yeah, there's that pattern. I'm all in. So I was going to either rap full time.

and really learned how to do it. I was going to get my Series 7, which I studied for, coach, NBA coach, which I did some stuff there, or did digital marketing. Digital marketing? Because I went back to college for. Wow. UCLA, and I did everything, and I said, what do I have the endurance for?

You know, like, what keeps me happy? And when I was in UCLA at school, I was up, late, studying, and I really loved it. I really got into it. So what are you doing now? What pays the bills or is just your investments from your NBA cash? There's a couple of things.

You know, so I've worked with digital marketing companies, digital agencies. We build some brands together. You know, this is one of our brands, Buttercloth. We started this. It looks nice. We got with this company when it was early stages. You know, now this company is doing $10 million in revenue this year, like really growing. I got a couple other companies in digital marketing world that I'm working with.

I got percentage in. Then I have a business management company. You know, it's not a big company, but we got some boxes that you know. A couple boxes that you know. We do taxes. I don't necessarily do that part. I started the company. I invested in the company.

But it's pretty cool. I like it. You know, it keeps me around sports. We got some basketball players. We got some, we had a baseball player. We don't have many more. It's really cool, you know. Yeah.

And now that company is splitting out of agency, you know. And, you know, I'm just kind of advising them. And I, you know, I got equity in a company. I really like it. And I've been learning a lot. from these young players. It sounds like you still are interested in learning and growing and moving forward.

Like you're not just retired and watching Netflix and going on trips. No. No, not at all. I mean, I'm just grateful. I'm just really grateful for the NBA and basketball. Because I don't know if I could have been doing, like what I'm doing now, you know,

if it wasn't for the NBA basketball. Yeah, I think probably, you're probably right. Yeah. Do you think the NBA is too soft now? It's back. That's what I would say. So I got in the league in 99. That was the 90s era.

was unbelievably aggressive. 2000 through 2005, still aggressive, but the NBA was cracking down on certain things. 2005, 2010, you know, it was still aggressive, but not like the 90s, ejections, suspensions for anything fighting. Then from like 2013 to 2016-17, soft. Not the players, the rules. Oh, the rules, okay.

The rules. Not to play, the rules are soft. And then from about 17, 18 to now, it's back. It's very physical. It's back. I love it. Do you think someone like Steph Curry would have been as much of a star in your era? I think he would have been a star in any era.

I don't think he would have been hitting eight threes because you can hold, but he would have been a superstar. He just wouldn't have had, he wouldn't have been hitting as many threes. In the 80s and 90s, you can't risk missing some shots because it's not that many possession. Got it. Meta, thank you so much, man. This has been a really interesting interview. And, you know, it's hard to know what to expect from a guy. You keep people guessing. I'll give you that. Absolutely. Yeah. But I appreciate it, man. Thank you very much. Thank you. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a trailer with Dennis Rodman, one of the greatest rebounders ever to play professional

basketball with five NBA championships under his belt, and who is just as well known for his off-court antics, and Stince as an author, an actor, a reality star, a wrestler, and an unofficial diplomat to North Korea. There's a lot of stories I can tell you. I got a lot of stories. I can tell all about a lot of things. I know your dad, who had bounced, I guess, when you were three, showed up to a game once. I was coming in.

I was a little late. I was like five minutes late for practice. I was trying to get into the gate, and this black guy runs up to my truck and knocking on my window. I said, what do you want, man? You know, I just want to tell you, Dennis, I'm your father. I said, great. I said, you're going to have to wait.

I'm going to be back for practice. Did you even believe it? No. There's another fan. It's going to be cute. There's this incident where you go to the court in Detroit, and you're getting in the parking lot with this gun in your lap, and then you just fall asleep. I didn't like being famous.

You didn't like it? I didn't like it. So I just drove over there with a gun and just sat there and put it in my lap. It was loaded, decided to turn the radio, and it was pro jam playing. And I was like, I just thought I felt asleep. I think I'm a superhuman because West has your job. transpired in my life to now. What do you think if I dive out of a plane, no parachute, look up to God and hopefully that he catch me and I want to see my life flash in front of me.

What do you think? You can somebody catch me? And I'm thinking about that. I've been thinking about it for a long time just jumping on a plane, no parachute, and just dive out and watch my life flash in front of me. What did I do wrong? How can I fix this? How can I be happy? Somebody catch me. For more from Dennis Rodman, including marrying himself the pros and cons of fame and risky birthday toast to Kim Jong-un over in North Korea, check out episode 258 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Man, people come back from injuries, people come back from a little bit of a rut. People come back from a lot of things, but not many people come back from what looks a little bit like crazy.

So props to him for that, really. And to come back and then wear the whole journey and the whole thing on your sleeves, so to speak, so you can help others in the same situation. I actually find that really admirable. But hey, he's used to discomfort. He was on dancing with the stars, and he was the worst dancer of the season. So that's only because I wasn't there to take that honor,

I'm pretty sure. But really, truly, props to him for coming on and being so open about all of this. I don't think everyone would do that. Links to all things MetaWorld Peace will be on the website in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please use our website links.

If you buy books from guests and things like that, meta doesn't have a book for sale, but a lot of the guests on the show do. so this goes for every guest you hear. It does help support the show when you use those links. And yes, they work for Audible as well. And yes, they work in other countries. Transcripts are in the show notes.

There's a video of this interview going up on our YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you're welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn as well. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using the same system, software, and tiny habits that I use every single day. That's our six-minute networking course,

and that course is free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Most of the guests on the show, they subscribe and contribute to this course, so come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart,

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