The Jordan Harbinger Show - 607: Dwyane Wade | A Life Bigger Than Basketball

Episode Date: January 4, 2022

Dwyane Wade (@DwyaneWade) is a retired NBA All-Star, host of The Cube on TBS, and author of Dwyane and A Father First: How My Life Became Bigger Than Basketball. What We Discuss with Dwyane Wade: How to know the difference between giving your kids the opportunity to excel in areas that will enrich their lives versus pushing them into things they don't want to do. Lessons Dwyane learned from the basketball court that he now applies to his most important job: parent. How Dwyane dealt with imposter syndrome on the cusp of signing to the NBA. On the stigma of athletes seeking help for mental health, and why Dwyane encourages them to do it anyway. How Dwyane encourages his kids to be the best versions of themselves, strives to see the world from their unique perspectives, and doesn't shy away from consulting professional help when they pose questions he's unable to answer on his own. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/607 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss our conversation with rapper, singer-songwriter, and record producer T-Pain? Catch up with episode 551: T-Pain | You Can’t Auto-Tune Your Way to Happiness here! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. You know, sometimes in life, especially when you're young, and you're trying to figure out what's the next move, what's the next step. It's confusing. You have so much anxiety. It's scary to take that next step when you leave high school and you go to college or you leave college and whatever that next step is in your life. And I'm at a place that I know most people have not been in my community and in my family.

So I'm here for a reason. Let me just put this work in and let me just keep going until somebody top me on my shoulder and say, don't suppose to be in here. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game. Astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional national security advisor, Fortune 500 CEO, or organized crime figure. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom

into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, we've got episode starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topic

that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on this show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start to get started or to help somebody else get started. Of course, I always appreciate it when you share the show. Today on the show, NBA superstar Dwayne Wade. Y'all know I'm allergic to sports for the most part, so instead of spending the whole time on that,

we dive deep into parenting, being a role model, personal responsibility, achievement, and leading by example. Now, Dwayne has had a rough upbringing, much like MetaWorld Peace, who was on the show a few weeks back, taking some lessons from the court, he built an empire, but most importantly, he raised well-adjusted kids and kept his family together and, of course, kept a good head on his shoulders pretty much the entire time. Now, if you're not into sports or basketball, and even if you don't have kids of your own, I think this was an interesting conversation that you'll enjoy and in which you'll find value. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these

great authors, thinkers, creators, and performers every single week. It's because of my network, and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. This course is about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring others to develop a personal and professional connection with you. It'll make you a better networker, a better connector, and a better thinker. That's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And most of the guests you hear on the show, they subscribe and contribute to the course.

So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Now, here's Dwayne Wade. I've heard you say if I never had a moment where I didn't want to give up, it means I didn't work hard enough. So you're constantly pushing. And I'm wondering if you instill that in your kids as well. Like, do you push your kids to that sort of same level of intensity? That's a great question.

I don't want to use the word push necessarily. Okay. I try to integrate some of the things that has worked for me in life into my kids. mentality, you know, when they're trying to, setting out to accomplish something and whatever that is. And it's just, I'm trying to just, you know, give them ways to think about it. I don't want to push them to do things. I want them to want to do these things. And a lot of it comes when someone pushes you. Sometimes you walk away, you're like, I'm so glad my dad pushed me to do that because I don't want them look at this push. I want them to say, I'm so glad that I had the opportunity.

You know, I'm glad that my dad and my mom and my stepmom, I'm glad that they presented this opportunity to me and gave me all the reasons why I should do this, more so than how he pushed me to do it. Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose there's a limit. How do you know the limit of what you can, I almost use the word push again? How do you have a limit of what you can sort of introduce to your kids

and encourage? I guess the limit is, you know, how do you know when you're pushing and when you're like, look, I'm just presenting this to you in a way to encourage you and then, you know, how do you know when to back off, I guess? Because, you know, your dad reading your book, your dad was kind of like, I'm just going to make you bleed on the court. maybe not the same way you want to do things with your own kids. Yeah, yeah.

I guess from their reaction, if you know your kids good enough, you know when the reaction is at a place where they're going to receive it. And you also know if it's at a place where they needed to hear and they may not want to hear it at this moment. And then also, you know, when it's like they're not hearing you at all. But I always say this. My father did push, you know, my father did make me do things that I didn't want to do.

But he had to because of our situation was totally different than my kids. and in our family situation. And so that's the privilege that I have, my wife have, and that privilege has come from my hard work. I'm not saying nothing about it, but that's the privilege that we have that our parents did not have. And so my dad pushed me because my dad needed some help

with these bills. But, you know, my daddy needed, he's like, I had all these boys. I need one of y'all to help us, you know, change the course of, you know, where our life has been going as a family, right? And so he pushed me because of that. My wife and I, we don't have to push our kids

in that same way, even though we want them to go off and get their own and have their own, because what we have is not enough for the entire family. Like, we need more. So, yeah. You said crashing to the, you wrote this in the newest book, or crashing to the concrete playing with my dad when I was younger, seeing blood on the pavement, but understanding that what I obsessed over was on the other side of pain.

So look, that sounds intense by any measure. The kind of thing that, like, with the wrong kid, could damage your relationship with your kids if you end up doing that, like, with the wrong kid. Like, you took to it, but a lot of kids might be like, yeah, my dad just kept driving me until, you know, he's trying to make me into something that I'm not. And you do a really good job of not doing that. I noticed in the ESPN documentary about you, one of your boys got the nickname Young Flash.

And you were like, wait, hold on. I'm the Flash in the NBA. You need your own nickname. You're your own self. You're not a young version of me. Yeah. That's good parenting, man. his own identity, so he's not living in dad's shadow, who's an NBA superstar.

Like, those are too big of shoes to fill. It could damage your relationship with your kid if you put them under that pressure, if it's the wrong kid. Like, you took to it naturally or through, you know, brute force method, but not all kids are going to do that. Well, it did damage my relationship with my father. I think now at 39 years old, my father and I, relationship is finally at a place where we're both happy with it.

That's the day. but it took a long time to get here. Some people on the outside looking in would be like, well, I'll take a couple years of not being on the same page if I'm going to able to push you to the success that your dad helped you get to, right? But I just feel like that's just not one way.

It's so many ways to do this. It's so many ways to live life. There's so many ways to be. And so this is just my approach. This is just my way. This is my wife's approach in our way. And so with Zaire, I remember that. He went to, you know, the Miami Pro League.

And, you know, they would just call him, Young Flash, Young Flash. And it's proud of a dad I am to have a son that love the same sport. The pressure to call him something like Young Flash is that's not for him. He don't need that pressure. He has enough, especially when we can control it. And so we were just sitting at home and I was like, you know, Ozzie, you got to come up. Like, yes, you are a product of the way blood, line, and family, and you can't run from it.

You should not want to run from it. There's some greatness in that. So let's come up with your own thing. And, you know, Young DNA became that thing. And so I love the fact that he loved that. I love the fact that he's taking young DNA and has made at a brand. You know, he's since 16 years old, he's had his own brand. And so he's learning how to be a great businessman at a very young age.

So, but yeah, my dad and I relationship was damaged because of that. It almost seems inevitable. I think it's great you're teaching your kids the business angle of it because a lot of people would just focus on the sport. I mean, anytime you turn on ESPN at 1 o'clock in the morning because you can't sleep, there's a documentary about an athlete that had $50 million in his, now broke and works at a used car dealership because they just didn't get it. And nobody taught it to them. And they grew up maybe like you did on the south side of Chicago where it's like,

well, if I have money, I better spend it because it's going to be gone soon or I don't know what to do with it. That didn't grow up with a bank account. You know that kind of thing. And it's tragic to see that. So it's good that you're instilling that in your kids. You say that there's lessons from the court that will last forever. Be committed. Be the hardest worker. Lead by example. Adjust on the fly. Take responsibility, stay hungry, stay focused, either be great or be forgotten. Only one of those was an option for me. And that's a high level of commitment and intensity. I'm wondering if you think you were kind of born with some of that, or if that was cultivated in you by your parents? And it's, like, was it in your environment, nature or nurture, I guess is what I'm trying to ask.

I think some of it, Jordan, some of it I was born with. Some of it I've had to learn. Some of it, I've had to experience. I've learned a lot from so many people in my life. I get obviously, the credit because I'm the one speaking and it's my name and my face. But it's so many people on my journey and every opportunity that I've had to thank those individuals, what is my Jersey retirement, what is a speech at any bank what I've ever been to, what is my book or whatever. I've always tried to thank the people that have helped me understand these lessons that I've learned in life. And it's been so, so, so many. So I'm just super blessed. And to go back to what we what we talked about before is sports is business.

It's no separation. When I came in, I tried to separate. I was like, I'm going to focus on sport and you focus on my business. And then I don't know what's going on to my business. And so sports is business. You know, when you get traded, that's a business thing. You know what I mean?

And so I'm just trying to teach my son that sports is business, but sports is also like life. Those lessons and the things I talk about in my book, that's the same things that I take into my regular life now that I'm not a superhero on the court anymore. I take those same elements to this life. Do you think your environment growing up

motivated you in a way to work hard so you could get some escape velocity? Southside of Chicago is no joke, and you wrote, between seeing what crack cocaine did to the hood, the violence in the streets, and dealing with the police, everyone who lived there grew up quick.

We had no choice. Some of the stories in the book, man, like finding a dead body in a trash can, which was, I think, a kid about your age, you saw some shoes sticking out and saw, like, oh, man, I'm going to get those free shoes. And then you realize there's, like, legs attached to the shoes. I mean, that's not a normal childhood environment. It was normal for my childhood.

It was normal for what I've seen. And that's the unfortunate part of all of this, you know, everything that's going in the world. That should not be normal for any child. At nine years old, a child should not have the burden of taking care of his family. You should not have that burden. But here we are. You're presented with it. And so it's nothing else that you can do.

you adapt or you don't, right? And so for me, I had to learn how to adapt. I had a lot of family members that protected me. I grew up in a gang infested, drug-infested, you know, world in Chicago, you know, in the 80s and 90s. It was heavy, you know, drugs and crack cocaine and, you know, dope. Like, that was heavy. And so you either become a part of it or you become something else. And I wanted to become something else, you know, simply that.

And I didn't know what it was going to be, how it was going to be. I just know that that didn't look right. That wasn't for me. You know, that wasn't what I felt I was on his earth to do or want to do. So yeah, man, I don't know if I got off topic at all, but, you know, just whenever you ask questions about my childhood, it just, it takes me back to places that a lot are dark, but a lot are not at the same time because of my childhood, because of my journey, because of each individual I've seen out there, it gave me the the foresight, the insight to want to become something better. For this book, I always talk about this is a book of imagery because I want to become an imagery for a young kid that's grown up in the city of Chicago

that needs someone to look at. And it's not saying that you have to become just like me, but you least need to have an imagery, an image of someone or something. And that's what this book provides. Yeah, it's like a, you want to become a role model sort of at scale, right? Not just to your own kids, but to other people out there who maybe only saw you play basketball and don't have a three-dimensional view of who you are. Growing up and saying some nights I didn't eat, you know, and then having kids at age 20, I assume not wanting your own kids to feel that kind of the lack of what you had growing up, that's got to be a strong motivator as well, huh? It definitely was.

I mean, Zaire, you know, I go on a record and I always talk about Zaire being my wife. You know, sometimes in life, especially when you're young, and you're trying to figure out what's the next move, what's the next step? It's confusing. It's you have so much anxiety. It's scary to take that next step when you leave high school and you go to college or you leave college and whatever that next step is in your life. And I didn't know.

I was confused. I just, you know, I went through the steps. And eventually, once I had my son, that was my reason. That was my why, you know, because I didn't want to see him grow up the same way that I grew up. My dad grew up. His dad grew up. You know, I wanted to be a part of shifting the way that the weights have been known to be. And I felt that, you know, by being in high school and been a good basketball player, that was cool.

But once I was able to go to college and I was like, well, I'm at a place that I know, most people have not been in my community and in my family. So I'm here for a reason. Let me just put this work in and let me just keep going until somebody top me on my shoulder and say, yo, you don't suppose to be in here. You know what I'm saying? Like an imposter. I felt like an imposter most of the time. I'm like, I'm supposed to be here, but I'm moving with the crowd. And then eventually I kept moving with the crowd to eventually I was in front of the crowds and I started standing out. And so, you know, to be able to try to showcase that to your son, into your daughter and to your children, that's everything. But to

to be able to do that for other kids, that you may never meet, some you may meet me. That right there, that's called legacy. It's interesting that even you had an imposter syndrome. I love highlighting this, because a lot of people are starting their first job or whatever, and they're like, they're going to figure out, I'm a fraud and I don't belong here. And I'm like, listen to this episode with Dwayne Wade, who said, I felt like a fraud at Marquette when I'm about to go into the NBA

and be one of like the top players to ever play the game. And you're still like, someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and be like, what are you doing here? Get out of here. Go back to Southside. Chicago. I still think that, Jordan, paranoid a lot of times. I'm like, someone is going to top me on the shoulder and be like, bro, come here. How you get that far? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What are you doing at my house? When I look at your book, which will link in the show notes,

you wrote that your mother at this one point in time had been released from jail just in time just in time to see your final game at Marquette, and she hadn't been able to see you play basketball since you were young. Was she mostly absent then from your childhood? I know she spent some time incarcerated and some time, I guess, as a fugitive because she didn't want to go back to jail and things like that. I'm wondering if she was largely absent and then also, was it a bit of a head trip for you starting like a wine brand when addiction has had such negative effects on your childhood growing up with both parents having some issues with it?

Yeah, great question, man. Yeah, my mom was in and out of my life early on. She was living her own life. You know, she was trying to figure it out. She was taking some bad steps along the way. And in the midst of that, you know, it took a while to come back a lot of times. But eventually, you know, she was in and out of prison, you know, when I was between the ages of five been in nine years old. But the moments that I have with my mom, those moments were always,

it was just so powerful. You know, like, my mom would take me to the basketball court and we'll sit there for hours until the court open up for me to get out on the court and finally play. Because the big boys had the court, and you couldn't get on there until it was over. Like, I have so many great moments with her, but she was in and out. And then once I got my dad to cussing me in nine years old, my mom was still, she was still in what she called her madness. And she was still in and out of my life. So that moment, that, that, That gang, like I was getting to know my mother over notes. I was writing notes to my mother while I was in school.

And then like wait two weeks and she was able to, if it got to her in prison, and then wait two weeks for her to respond. And that's how we responded. Like I told her I had a son over a letter. And so that gang, it wasn't just to come and see me play. That was the first time she met Zaire. I was going through so much that day emotionally. It was a conference championship.

My mom was coming to see me play. She was coming to meet Zaire. He was going to meet. It was just so much going on, man. That could have affected your game negatively, but I guess it didn't. That seems like it would, yeah, it's a bit much. Was it a bit of a head trip for you starting that wine brand than knowing like, okay, my parents have had issues with alcohol? Do I want to like get into this industry and be around it all the time?

Is that healthy? It was. It took me, Jordan. I had my first drink around 27, 28 years old. I can't remember exactly. But it took me a while to even indulge in any adult beverage. indulging anything because of the strong addictions of my parents. So what I've seen as addictions from my parents in this space.

And then eventually once I got a chance to, I guess, get a look behind the curtains in a wine, I realized that, you know, it wasn't what I didn't even know what it was, first of all. I didn't grow up in, you know, it wasn't accessible to me. And it was nothing I knew about. But once I did go behind the curtain, I realized that it wasn't what I thought it was, and probably what most people, you know, the beauty in it, the beauty in these grapes, into, you know, this beautiful thing we call wine. It's kind of poetic.

I started to love the process of wine. I started to love, you know, going out and experiencing it, you know, with people and things like that. But I did come out with a Budweiser. We did come out with a drink called Bud Zero. And in mind, my mom was in mine. My dad was in mine as, you know, they have moved away from drinking, you know, alcohol, especially my father.

And I wanted to kind of create something as well. Be a part of this new trend of something that my parents could also enjoy. That is a big hit in my house. call his birth zero as well. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Dwayne Wade. We'll be right back. Have you ever had a moment where you think, man, someone should really do something about this? Then you realize, maybe that someone is you.

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Now, back to Dwayne Wade. That isn't just for athletes, I suppose. It's also for people who want to just sort of wean themselves off of the actual psychological implications thereof, I suppose. I don't know much about it. I guess you had a super tough custody battle that got really nasty and ended up with you getting full custody of your children after a really long and protracted battle. We don't have to go into that because you've written about it before. But during this time, you were playing some of your best basketball, according to pretty much everyone.

I'm wondering if some of the energy on the court came from, frankly, anger and frustration stemming from what's happening off the court. You know, you got to fly to Chicago and fly back and deal with all this, frankly, bullshit, illegal stuff. Yeah. And then you come back and it's like, you can slam that right into the net. Was that a factor for you? Was that an ingredient at that time?

Yeah, George, it was a big factor. You know, I think about all the people who do not, that go through those traumatic moments and dramatic moments and all that. And they don't have that same outlet. So where does it go? You know, I took that anger and that rage and that confusion and disappointment and whatever I was going through and I put it into the game of basketball and I was able to channel it the right way because some people can channel it their own way.

And I was able to channel it the right way and make it work for me. But it was no different than what I've dealt with growing up. So, you know, I've always been able to channel or compartmentalize, you know, and focus on the task, right, at hand. That is something that's very important, you know, and I think about retiring. And that was one thing that came to mind. I was like, what am I going to do with this when the rage and anger come? When a disappointment come, where am I going to have this outlet?

And that's why immediately when I retired, I went to therapy. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. I think that's really wise, actually, because that stuff can always sort of crop up like a decade later and start boiling up in other parts of your life. I'm sure your therapist has discussed that with you. And it can really sort of sneak up on you in a way. Yeah, definitely, definitely.

So it was something that, and I think Janice came out and spoke about this recently, the stigma on athletes, you know, seeking help and how, you know, it's deemed as this word soft. And that was how it was perceived. And so being able to grow up and become an adult in the NBA, you realize eventually once you have, you know, other teammates that are adults and they go through things and now they're doing therapy and you realize that it's not that. It becomes different.

But, yeah, it was not something that I ever thought that I needed, but I needed it. And I still need it. And it's times where, you know, you get so busy and you don't have it, but I will be checking back. I need to check back into it because it's easy to lose yourself out here in this world. Sometimes you need to someone to help you, you know, sit down and bring it all back to, you know, what's important. Absolutely. I wonder if you have any advice for people who need to channel their anger and frustration

in a way that helps their performance, or at least in a way that's not destructive. Because that sort of drama, trauma, right, can, off the core, can, that could have easily derailed you and made your game a mess, right? Right, but it didn't. It had the opposite effect. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for people who are going through it and are like, this is just ruining my life. What do I do? Yeah. I mean, this is a part of my parenting with my son. And he go, try to go through his journey. And he's going through everything, you know, mentally and physically that he's going through trying to become a pro, doing under the light of the weight name and all the things, right? And so I don't know of this advice that I'll be like, oh, yeah, you should live by this because I don't like telling people what they should do and how they should. I just try to share my experiences and how I personally, you know, have dealt with it. And that's what I've been trying to do, more than giving out, hey, this is what you take when you get a headache. Like, I don't have that.

I just have personal experiences that, you know, I use as examples. Yeah, no, this makes sense. Illustrating by example. And you do talk about this when you discuss parenting, right, leading by example. And even when you left Miami, I think it was, because you weren't being paid what you were worth. A lot of people were like, what are you talking about? you're making like $20 million a year. What are you crying about?

But it was, when you explained it, I heard this on a podcast. It was less about the dollar amount and more about actual respect and the appearance of being valued or not being valued. And it seems like you go through this calculation a lot. Like, all right, what are my kids going to think

of this action that I'm taking? How would they view this? You said you wanted to raise kids who know their worth and are better than I ever could be, which is, that's great. That's a high bar as well. Yeah.

That's always a part of my process. I'm on record saying that as great of a basketball player that I was, I feel that my greatest responsibility has been a father. And not in the sense that I'm going to do everything right because you also learn from mistakes. I teach my kids a lot from my mistakes,

and I will continue to teach my grandkids from because you will continue to make them. You want to make them less and less. But, you know, that is something that is important, you know. And so, you know, I just try to, once again, it's like you Donatis Hazel, my former teammate. He's 40, what, two years old, he got in the game last night, you know, and I heard his press comments afterwards.

You got a block. You know, he got a bucket. He did all these things. And what he said is, I have a job to do. I don't want people to just root for me because I'm getting in the game. When I get in, I have a responsibility and I have a job. And my job is to take charges. My job is to rebound.

My job is the X, one, Z. And so as a parent, I have a job to do. And I try not to allow anything to get in the way of my job. And as hard as it is to be a motivator, to be a supporter, you know, and all provider, all these things, ultimately, you know, my most important role in this world will be how I'm able to, you know, give my kids everything that they need from me to be able to be their best selves and to be able to have the opportunities in life that they deserve to have. I know that you have used to call it, I don't know if you still call it this, man time and man

talks, and now probably some father-daughter time and talks as well, right? So that's important. I think a lot of people don't realize this, right? they just sort of like go through life parenting and just going and being present, but they don't sit down and maybe have like one on one time and be like, okay, real stuff right now. Yeah. Not just joking around. You know, where did you get that idea and how do you guide those conversations? Like, how do I do this with my kids?

Yeah, I think just going through my custody battle, pulling your kids through that, it sucks, America and everybody else who's listening. It sucks. It's your kids have to go through the fight between parents and whatever that fight is. It makes no sense ultimately at the end of the day, right? So going through my custody battle, I realized I had to do things differently. You know, I was getting my kids just on the weekends and stuff like that. And you can't really be a parent in two days.

It's hard. And so I was like, okay, let me find my way. I wasn't with them every day. My career and my job takes me away from my kids all the time. So when are you going to get to know them? I hate it coming home or I hate to see my kids and I got to talk to him about being absent or a bad grade or something they did at home or something they did at their mom house. And I got to come in and be the one that, you know, supposed to be the,

Punisher or whatever it is, right? I hated it. And so what I wanted to do is I wanted to give them something that they can look forward to and know that it's a safe space with me. We started these, we did journals for a while. We did let's go on dates for a while. And so now I've changed the name to, you know, when I go out with Zaya, I call it Zaya's world. I'm in your world. Where you want to go, what you want to do. Because it's important for me as your parent to continue to get to know you as you continue to grow because you will be different from me. You will see the world different for me. You are living in a different world than I grew up in. There's no way I know everything. And so I go into Zaya world a lot. I go into Zaya world all the time. And that's how

I approach it. Zaya's world is a little bit complicated. I know you've talked about this before in the media. She came out to you as, I think, at first gay and then later transgender. And that's hard for kids to go through, let alone when it ends up on fricking like TMZ or whatever, right? And she came out super early, right? Was it like eight years old or did I misunderstand that? She was. It was eight. Yeah, we were living in Chicago. Yeah. When she came home. How does that happen practically? Because a lot of people are going to be like, what, eight? That doesn't make any sense. But it's kind of an interesting story. It amazes me when people say stuff like that because, Jordan, I think around, I knew very early that I like girls. I was chasing them and I was running from them and I was fighting them because I liked them.

I knew very early as a young boy who I liked. So it's things about yourself that you know that people don't know. And sometimes you don't know how to articulate that. Sometimes it's not the most popular thing. And so you keep it inside. And it's unfortunate. And it's unfortunate. So in Zaya's case, yeah, you know, we talked about it.

She came home at eight years old. It wasn't like she came home and she was very confident and easy going telling us this is something that was, it was pain and watching my child come out and tell me that she was gay. And I later came to find out

that she was just hitting me with a soft blow. She knew at eight years old that she wasn't just gay. She was just hitting me with a soft blow. And that she still was learning and then she was able to come home and give us more context and didn't really get to the space

of finding the answer and what that language and what that term was. But then she came home at 12 and was like, okay, I got it. Now I'm ready. And so I think the thing what I love and I appreciate most about Zaya is this is not just all Zaya is. Zaya is more than just a trans girl, you know what I mean?

And I love the fact that she's now out comfortably exploring life and living life. And as hard as I'm sure it is for her, I cannot imagine how hard it is for people to comment on, you know, how you should feel and how you should be and what you should do and what you should. I can't imagine at 14 years old. But she's doing it so gracefully. She's been a straight-A student since she's walked in school, and that continues. She's like every other 14-year-old kid, Jordan, she's trying to find friends. She's trying to find people alike, you know, to go through life with and grow with. And so, you know, I just want people to know that Zai is more than just a trans girl, you know?

She's a beautiful young lady who has so many talents and can really do anything she wants. I love hearing the pride in your voice. I will say that finding that out has to be like a trance. by fire fatherhood moment for you and the family. Like, you could really screw that up if you're not careful. You know, if it's me, I'm on Google. I'm calling professionals. Like, how do I do this without screwing it up or saying something dumb by accident

and making her mad at me for like five years? That was us. That was us, Jordan. I mean, I literally sent Zaya voice note last night. And I sent her to interviews when I was, you know, when I just left New York on my book tour and a lot of Zaya questions came up. In every interview that I had, I sent it to her. Because I want her to know, I'm out right now.

here speaking on her behalf. But I also want her to know if I'm saying anything wrong, if I'm not getting something right, if you are growing in a space and you have evolved in a space and we don't know about it, help me alone in this journey. And some people look at like, why would you want help from your kids? Well, my kids are humans. Our kids are, we'll be adults very soon. Like, it happens like this. And so I understand, like, they're going to run this family one day. You understand it? They're going to have the ability to put you in at home one day. And so for me, my wife and I, we really, we really, try to teach our kids and treat them at the right times alone this way we're trying to teach them

how it is to be looked at thought of approached as human beings and not looked at as hey you just a kid you have no say shut up and that's kind of the way that a lot of us grew up i think so yeah for sure i agree with that i've heard that as amazing as your life is now you try and go back and revisit some of the hardest times in your life in your head so that you can take lessons from them. How do you do that at a practical level? Is that done with your therapist? Is that done with your wife? How do you do, I think that's a valuable practice for everyone. I'd love to hear how you actually go about it. I think it's so many ways in. Definitely. You sit on your therapist couch for two hours. I mean, when I first went in, I was thinking like, I have nothing to say.

And then two hours later, I was just like, yeah, and when I was three, like, I still was going. I haven't even got to 37 or 8 yet. I was still at three years old, right? So it's so many moments. It's my wife, of course. You know, those are some of the most intimate, most vulnerable moments that I would have is with my wife. And so, yeah, it's still so many ways. There's so many people, once again, to help you be who you are. You know what I mean? And so I'm thankful for meditation.

I'm thankful for my wife. I'm thankful for my wine company at moments when I need it. Like, I'm thankful for all the things that kind of help me, you know, be able to continue this process. But going back to the book, it's moments where. I look at photos that helped me as well. I talk about this on my tour. I look at the photo in the first quarter of my book of the photo from the apartment building

that I grew up in on 50 Knife in Prairie. And I cannot look at that photo and not think about growing up in that apartment and growing up on that block and everything that we went through and everything that I promised and said I wanted to do if I ever got a chance to get out of that madness.

And I did. And so, yeah, it's so many moments that bring you back. This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Dwayne Wade. We'll be right back. And now for the rest of my conversation with Dwayne Wade. What did you think when you heard Jay-Z's empire state of mind? And he said, if J-Z's paying LeBron, I'm paying Dwayne Wade.

Like, did you know that was coming? Mom, I made it. No, I did not. No, I did not. I was just like this. I made it. My favorite artist said my name and his song. It's over.

I got it made. If Jesus's paying LeBron, I'm paying DeWan. So, and it was a huge song with Alicia Keys. Like, it was crazy. And I remember getting a chance, Jordan, to talk to Jay Z about it. And I was like, Jay, like, when you're putting together, like, your art, like, what makes you think of me?

Like, how do I come and be a part of, like, your art? And Jay is just so smart, man. He just so, he understands and he gets it, right? And he was just like, man, like, it's relevancy. Like, I'm tying myself to your relevance. him and see, you know what I'm saying? As he's tying me to his. And then when he said, I was, you know, we were popping. We're big three at the time, you know, we, we, we the heaters. And so I understood, you know, the things that he was saying around the time when it

was watch the throne when him and Kanye, you know, decided to throw me and LeBron in there as well. It's being connected to, you know, people who are doing things, people who have a fan base and who are relevant and so forth and so on. So that was one of the coolest moments for me, because when I came in the league, and I was just like, I just need Jay-Z to put me in his own. just need somebody to put me in a song. And, like, I've been in other songs, but your favorite artist put you in a song, I mean, that hits different.

Yeah, for sure. Look, what does that even mean, though, if he's playing LeBron and paying to wait? Like, what does that mean? I looked it up. Nobody seems to know. Do you have any insight as to what he's talking about? Joe, and I think it's a street reference.

Okay. That's a good way to put it. I'll have to do further Googling and research on that. Yeah, if you want to go take a walk to a 59th and wherever with me, I think, you know, it's probably just a street. street reference, you know, so yeah. Got it. Got it. Okay.

I was wondering if you're going to be like, I don't know either, but now I just feel like there's a joke that I'm not getting. I'm going to have to ask somebody who gets it. I really don't know. Jay has never told me. It's just, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah, I've never really asked, but you try to put the context clues together because of GZ song. I go back and listen to GZ song and I'm like, hmm, okay, Jeezy talk is some street stuff. And then I come back and listen to Jay Z and I'm, so to me, I'm like, okay, that's street talk.

You know, I get it. And so, yeah. Well, if I ever get a chance to ask him, I'll put his feet to the fire on this particular line. Please, please do. Yeah. Who's your kid's favorite basketball players at LeBron James? I think when it comes to Zaire,

his just have continued to evolve because his, you know, as he sees more people to have similar games or similar height or, you know, when he was young, it was Kobe Bryant. Then it was obviously Uncle LeBron. I was actually in the top five somewhere. Wow. you made the top five. Yeah, I made the top five.

That's impressive. And now that he's playing basketball, he's starting to look at guys that have similar games like Brandon Jennings, right? A lefty guy who kind of got the same body frame, got the same quickness and explosion or whatever. So now I can't say he has a favorite player. I'm sure Uncle Kobe is still his favorite player of all time.

Now he's looking at players and saying he's trying to identify with other players and learn from them. Same way I identify with Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and I learned, and I learned from them. You said in your book, I've said it before, I've said it a million times, I love basketball with all my heart, what it's given to me is a piece of my soul,

but I've also worked extremely hard never to let it completely define who I am. Happiness for me never came from just one source. I've gotten the chance to meet so many people from so many walks of life and impact them in ways that didn't always matter if I led the league in scoring or if we finished atop the Eastern Conference.

I'm proud of being Dwayne Wade, the three-time champion or Olympic gold medalist, but I'm not just that. I never will be. Why is it so, or was it so important to you to keep an identity separate from the game? Which, by the way, is super healthy. A lot of people, especially men, for some reason, don't really even know who they are outside of their career.

Yeah, I mean, for most of my career, I guess I didn't know that either. But, you know, one thing that would bring you right back down in reality is injuries. You know, I had injuries that could have derailed my career that I possibly, you know, almost did not come back from. You know, thank you to Tim Grover. We talk about Tim Grover, who really brought me back from one of the worst injuries

for my shoulder and knee injury in 2008. So that's the lowest point. You know, I remember looking at, I remember being in like, you know, restaurants that had TVs or being at home and people were talking about it was over for me. And I can't say that it wasn't a moment

that it didn't cross my mind. But in the midst of me, saying, I'm going to do whatever I can and make sure I get back. At the same time, that's when I was like, yo, this could end at any moment. You know, when you get drafted,

you see your whole life in front of you. Like, I'm going to play for then you have major injuries. You're like, hold on, this can be over. And so I believe at that point in my life, I started to take business a little bit more serious. I started to want to know a little bit more about the other side and not just the sports side.

And I was like, you know what, this can't be the only thing to define me because this can end and I can't control it. And so knowing that you have the rest of your life, if you play a long career, LeBron James is going to be playing one of the longest careers we've seen. He's been in his prime for 18, 19 years. At some point, the game will end.

he will have the rest of his life ahead of him as well. And it's so much more life. And so you can't just be one thing, you know, as much as the world want us to be just athletes. They want us to shut up and dribble. That's not the only thing we are. And so going through this life and being able to grow and evolve, that's all I've always wanted to do.

And this book allows me to showcase other parts of Duane and not just the basketball player. And that's why you see stuff in here about fashion, about community, about family, about my life as a human being and not just a sports icon. I think that's something that to be applauded. I mean, not everyone chooses to use their platform for things outside of generating revenue. I mean, granted, fashion beverages, some of that is revenue generating, but you also step beyond the game or you did, when you were in the game, step beyond the game, but you still approach issues like gun violence, education, charitable works. I read somewhere that you can be spotted

visiting sick kids in hospitals, but no press is invited and nobody really knows. They're just like, hey, did you know Duane Wade showed up to the burn unit at such as a hospital? You're walking the walk. You're not just like doing press releases, you know, for yourself, which is maybe a little unusual, I think. Well, I think how I try to approach things and, you know, it's always going to be a difference of opinion on everything, especially when it's a public conversation. When I started to get the confidence or things really started to personally affect. me and I started to understand that I had a microphone that other people do not have.

It would be a shame if I have these thoughts and these feelings and it's hurt and his anger and all the same things that everyone else have. But I have this microphone. And then I have the ability to be able to reach out to companies and reach out to other people to help support. And all these things, and I'm not using it, shame on me. And so I will always speak out on things that I feel has injustice, things that I feel personally connected and tied to, Trayvon Martin was the first thing that I spoke out on. And when I speak out on something, it's not to do it because I want attention from it.

I do it because I want to bring attention to it. The Parkland shooting, that was to bring attention. That was to have a sit down and be in listening, see how you can help your community, like all these things. So there's so many things that go on. And I have a lot of friends who are committed to the work as well. And it's cool to be a part of a friend base, whether it's LeBron James, who's committed to I promise, or is Kim Kardashian who's committed to justice for Julius Jones.

To be able to have friends that are committed to doing the work and using their platform, that makes me want to do the same thing. In your life right now, it's basically just half time to use a tired basketball analogy. I mean, you're 39. What are you most excited about bringing to the world besides your basketball talents, wine, some socks. By the way, Stant's socks, my absolute favorite. Kudos to you and that team for having an eye for quality.

but, you know, you're bigger than wine and socks. That's what I'm trying to say, and I'm sure you got some plans. So my first book was titled The Father First, and the second title in that book was how my life became bigger than basketball. My mom always told me, and I remember being a kid, and she always said, Duane, you know, I know you want to be a basketball star one day, but your life is bigger than basketball. And I didn't know what that meant, you know, when I was young.

But everything I do now, I realize what that means, you know? And so I feel that in this life I'm in, Now, if you go back to my book, my book starts at the pregame. I feel like I'm back in the pregame. I'm a rookie again in the life of being a businessman, in the life of being a husband again. I mean, I'm husband in a way I've never husband before. I'm fathering in a way I've never fathered before. And it's still ain't enough, but I'm learning.

And so that's the one thing, Jordan, that I will always, some people call it, who being humbled or having a sense of self or whatever it is. But for me, I'm just always understanding there's so many things in this world that I do not know. And if I do not know something, the best thing to do is to ask questions and shut up and listen.

And that's what I've been able to do and I will continue to do. I like asking questions. It's the shut up and listen part that I could probably use a little help there. But, man, this has been great. And on a personal note, as a relatively new father, I really enjoyed your book about fatherhood.

I also deeply respect your vulnerability in the custody story and being so public with that. not a lot of people with your public profile would open the kimono like that. So I admire that. And I want to thank you for coming on the show today, man. I hope we get to do this again sometime,

maybe in person at some point. And I just really appreciate your time and your humility and your honesty. Yeah, man, I appreciate you allowing us to come on here and I'll obviously talk about my memoir, but the other things, that's a good thing about it, right? I'm not a sports guy anymore. I don't have to just talk about the game.

Thank you for the platform and all your listeners. Thank you guys for listening. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with rapper and singer T. Payne. I recorded barstender in a hotel room of a nudist resort. You're ass naked looking at your window with a cup of coffees and people fucking by the pool. Just everything's happening all at this one hotel and you're just like, this is nice. This is nice. The hardest thing about being number one is staying number one.

That stuck with me so much that I didn't even care when I became number one. Because I felt like I needed to work harder to stay there. And everything else was a distraction. Broke was Wells Fargo sending me email saying your account has reached $0. Oh, wow. Like, Brooke was me asking my manager, can he buy food for my kids? And this is from, like, upwards of $90 million. Wow.

And then going to pure zero. I mean, because I was young, like, what am I supposed to do? You signed me as a 19-year-old and just hand me $40 million. What do I? I don't know what to do with this. I had 43 cars at one time. How many? 43?

43 cars. All the gas goes bad and all of them. The Ferraris don't crank up if they're not driven every day. The Bugatti is stuck in between two Chevys. It took me nine years to lose all that money, and it took me two years to get it back. I could be a lot richer. I could be going to space in a giant dick.

Or I could be stuffed in my nose and my ears and we're told the paper to make sure roaches don't get in it. I think I'm fine. where I am. Yeah, it seems okay. Oh, man. For more on how T-Pain made and lost $90 million and how he climbed his way back, check out episode 551 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Dwayne was a lot deeper than I thought, man. I really wasn't, you know, a lot of times with athletes, you just don't know what you're going to get. And with him, I was really impressed. You know, he actually thinks about parenting. He wants to be a good example. He's not just out to make a bunch of money and get famous. And I find

that, well, look, the bar is low, but I found that impressive. He's also an investor in a lot of different companies. He's part owner of the Utah Jazz now as well, so he's not just blowing his money on hookers and blow, as many of us have seen athletes and famous people do. I'm not there yet. Also, props to him for being not only a worthy parent, but a celebrity parent, so he's under extra scrutiny for that as well. You know, there's a lot of negativity and hate coming from the public for every decision he makes. He's got a son who transitioned to a daughter. That can never be easy. It's just one challenge after another, and I thought this was an interesting conversation because he's handling all that, handling it well, and also handling it all under

the eye of millions of people, which just makes it really hard to deal with, I would imagine, and a lot worse if you make any missteps. So props to him for being so open and for giving his kids a life that's so different from the one that he had growing up. Links to all things, Dwayne Wade will be on our website in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Please use our website links if you buy books from any guests that you hear on the show. It does help support the show. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a very video. video of this interview going up on our YouTube channel at Jordan Harbinger.com slash YouTube.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using the same system, software, and tiny habits that I use. That's our six-minute networking course. The course is free. It's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty.

And most of the guests that you hear on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created an association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Millio Campo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends

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