The Jordan Harbinger Show - 615: Need Wedding Free from Dad's Drunken Spree | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: January 21, 2022

You'd love to invite your dad to your wedding, but he has a habit of getting drunk at gatherings and making a spectacle of himself. Is there a way to politely request sobriety as a condition of his invitation? We'll try to find answers to this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/615 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Your dad loves to hit the sauce and cause a scene whenever there's a gathering, which makes you hesitant to invite him to your wedding. Is there a way to politely request his sobriety for your special day? Your job burdens you with cripping depression and dissatisfaction that even the fattest of paychecks can't outweigh, but quitting now would have a dire impact on your career. How can you summon the motivation to power through this soul-sapping, meaningless job for the time being? With as little awkwardness as possible, how can you get your coworker to understand that the Ukrainian model Internet "girlfriend" he's never met in person is scamming him to the tune of $1,000 a month? Is it wrong to continue a relationship with someone whose romantic past triggers suicidal ideation in you, courtesy of your recently diagnosed borderline personality disorder? Your enthusiasm for weed has outlived the reasons you once had for using it as a coping mechanism. How can you quit it in secret before it hurts your career, love life, and relationship with your aggressively judgmental family? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Missed the episode we did with Annie Duke — World Series poker champion and author of Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts? Catch up by listening to episode...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer Gabriel Mizrahi, who looks like you just got back from an ashram or something, or you're going to one. That's actually not.

You shaved your head. Not too far for the truth. Shave my head, let the beard grow two weeks in Peru. That'll do it. Yeah, good for you. That'll do it, yeah. I thought your hair was migrating. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories.

Secrets and Skills are the World's Most Fascinating People and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave and our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker

so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show, on Fridays we give advice to you, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week,

we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes to authors, thinkers to performers. This week we had Ray Dalio back on the show by popular demand, of course, on why Empire's Fall and the Future of the USA and China, and Sean Acor, when we recorded five, six years ago on happiness. This was really popular when it first aired. We decided to remaster it, re-edit it for you here this week, giving me more time to change diapers on our two-week-old daughter who was born over the break.

So make sure you've had a look and to listen to everything that we created for you here this week. New Year, man, I'm excited to keep great. growing the show this year. We're also growing the family, literally. My daughter was born over the break. That wasn't just a joke. So now I have a two, depending on when you're listening to this, three, four week old daughter, a clump of my DNA mixed with my wife's DNA that just sleeps all day and spits milk everywhere. It's nice. It's like sleepless delusion and a good excuse to not go anywhere because I can't go anywhere anyway because I got a diaper in one hand and a microphone in the other. Well, congratulations. Either way, man, I'm happy for you. Thank you very much.

Is that stupid? I'm happy for you. No. Congratulations, man. Not at all. I honestly don't know what to say to people when they have kids like. Yeah. You know, honestly, nothing.

Like, congrats, great. And then it's like, you see the baby and it's like, oh, wow, adorable. But like, kind of sometimes. But usually you're like, uh, it's ugly as hell and it's peeling. It's like, it looks all red. It's like sunburned, but it's not. What the fuck is wrong with your kid? That's how I think about newborns.

All right. What's the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My amazing. My fiance recently proposed to me, so now we've started making wedding plans. My problem is that I have an alcoholic father who has previously ruined other major events in my life, like graduation and other big milestones. We were really close when I was young, but starting in high school,

he began binge drinking from the moment he woke up until he passed out at night. He's been in the hospital multiple times for the DTs and has some minor residual neurological issues as a result. This is not the same father I grew up with. That man did not have these severe drinking issues. As the bride, of course, I want my dad at my wedding, but I don't want the drama associated with having him drunk at our wedding. This is a celebration for us, and I'm so worried that my father is going to ruin it. My current thinking is that I should speak to him about my boundaries around

whether I decide to let him give me away, whether we do a father-daughter dance, and my expectation that he only be there if he's sober. But how exactly do I go about handling this? Do I let him know my concerns? What would you do in my situation? Signed, keeping my dad to the Asperilla without turning into a Bridezilla. This is such a sad story. I'm really sorry to hear that your dad has been struggling with his addiction for so long. It sounds like it's taken a huge toll on him and on you, and probably on your whole family. You're in a tough spot here.

Wanting your dad to be at your wedding. I mean, he's your dad. He should definitely be there, well, theoretically. But not wanting him to cause a scene and ruin your special day. I've seen drunk people at weddings. It's always embarrassing. In fact, a friggin' nanny got drunk at a super-shishi wedding of one of Jen's friends, and the groom's mother had to babysit this nanny from Taiwan all night during her only son's wedding during her wedding. So she was like laying down.

It was horrible. I mean, yeah, it was brutal in the bathroom, like getting sick. It was insane. Everyone was embarrassed. It definitely colored the evening. It was the thing that everyone's like, so what's up with the really drunk lady who like fell over? So yeah, I get it. you do need to talk to your dad and get super clear on your expectations and boundaries. So here's how

I'd do that. First off, I'd make some time for the two of you to talk alone and lay out your concerns gently but directly. If this were me, I'd say something like, listen, dad, we both know you've been struggling with alcohol for a long time. It breaks my heart to see you suffer like this. Your addiction has ruined a lot of important moments in my life, and that's caused me a lot of pain over the years. but I'm not here to talk about what happened in the past. I'm here to talk about the wedding. I really want you there. You're my dad.

But I absolutely will not allow you to get wasted on the most important day of my life and derail yet another big milestone for me. I don't want that. I know you don't want that. So we need to get clearer on how you're going to act that day. Something along those lines. Then I would lay out very clearly what you expect from him. Maybe you say, look, if you come to the way,

wedding, I'm asking you, actually, I'm telling you, respectfully, not to drink. Not at all. No champagne from a passing tray, no dram of whiskey at the bar. Don't even look at the hand sanitizer, Dad. If you're there, you are sober. I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad or punish you. I'm telling you this because this is the only way I can feel comfortable that my wedding will go smoothly. If you can do that, then I will let you give me away, and we can do a father-daughter dance, which I think would be really special for both of us. If you can't do that, then I'm really sorry, but I can't invite you to be a part of the ceremony. And if you say yes now, but you end up doing tequila shots in a bathroom or janitor closet or something like that, then I'm going to have to

ask some people to escort you out. Please don't make your own daughter kick her father out of the wedding. I'd rather you not drink it all ever, obviously, but I'll settle for you. You you not drinking on just this one day. Can you do that for me? And then the ball's in his court. And I know that some of what I just said might sound a little harsh, but I think you need to be pretty blunt for your dad to appreciate what a big deal this really is. You know, if you hedge or you talk around the issue, he might think you're not that serious. He might think like, oh yeah, yeah, no problem. Sober as a judge, got it, you know, wink double gun fingers. And then he just downs a few Moscow mules while nobody's looking and knocks over the friggin' sushi spreader,

whatever. You know that's going to happen. That's always a sushi spread. Always a sushi spread. He has to understand, because any of those heavy ones, they won't tip. It's the sushi spread that's all balanced up. The taco stand, the taco stand withstands anything. That's right. Sushi spread. That's vulnerable. That's right. Always.

He has to understand the severity of the situation, how important this is to you. The consequences if he doesn't honor your boundaries. At the same time, you have to be prepared to enforce those boundaries. That means being prepared to ask your dad to leave. he gets drunk. And if you have a wedding coordinator, definitely talk to them. They have seen every crazy thing that can happen at a wedding. They're really good about handling difficult guests. It's not going to be their first rodeo. I would also reach out to a couple guys in the family. Maybe people close to your dad, like his brother or his nephew or something like that, someone who

gets a little sway over him. Tell them that there's a chance your dad is going to act out. It should be no news to them. And if he does, you'll need their help, just quietly escorting him out and putting him in an Uber home. Enlist a few people to keep an eye on him. You shouldn't have to deal with this alone on your day. And if you have this conversation and you don't think your dad really gets it, then I would just be prepared to not invite him to the wedding.

I know it hurts, but it might be the right move, depending on how far gone he is. I don't think you owe an invitation to anyone who might seriously compromise your day, even if they are your parent. It's not fair to you, it's not fair to your fiancé, and it's not fair to your guests will have to deal with the dad who's tanked

and spit-talking in their face during the hors d'oeuvres. Dude, I've been to a couple of those weddings. It is awkward. Yeah, good point, Jordan. And maybe her taking that hard line with him, maybe that's what he needs to realize how serious his problem really is.

Because, look, you can imagine, right? If your daughter's like, Dad, I really wish you would stop drinking, you know, makes me kind of sad, I imagine that that's probably pretty easy for an alcoholic to, you know, to just brush off. But if your daughter's like, sorry, dad, you're not coming to my wedding because you have a problem. Or if you agree to her terms and

then you get kicked out of your daughter's wedding for drinking too much, yeah, that could be a very real wake-up call. And look, if your dad shows any willingness to get better, then I would obviously try to get him the help he needs, whether it's getting him to a hospital to detox or into a rehab program or into AA. I mean, I'm guessing you've already been there. You've probably had that conversation, but I'm just throwing it out there in case this conversation becomes a real chance for him to finally clean up his act. But more importantly, it sounds like your dad's addiction has taken a very real toll on you. I mean, growing up with an alcoholic parent from a young age, that is incredibly difficult. So I would make sure you're getting the support you need to. If you haven't done this already,

you might want to check out some Al-Anon meetings. That's a recovery program for families and friends of alcoholics. It's a pretty amazing place. And I bet the people in those meetings would have some really good ideas on how to handle this whole wedding situation. I'm guessing that you are not the first person to have to deal with an alcoholic parent coming to their wedding or not coming to the wedding. So give it a shot. Go to a couple meetings. You might pick up a few gems that'll help you learn how to best support your dad while you also take care of yourself. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Gabe. She definitely has some stuff to work through. And I hope she gets to do that. It would be amazing if she could help dad get better too, but it sounds to me like he's pretty far down the road.

I'm not saying you should give up on him. But she can't also save him until he actually wants to get better. and sometimes it's really hard to teach an old dog new tricks, especially if they're just not in a frame of mind, right? It's everyone else's problem. So keep the door open, keep pushing him to get help, but also just know that you can't really be super close with somebody who's in the grip of a serious addiction like this. It's heartbreaking, but that's the reality.

In the meantime, congrats on getting married. I think it's so exciting. It's always, it's so fun being married. I wish I'd known how great it was going to be. I would have done it sooner. And I'm sorry that you have to make this decision about your dad, but I know if you handle it with integrity, you'll make the right call. So we're wishing you and your fiancé, and in fact, your dad as well, all the best.

But you know who won't get hammered and ruin the most important day of your life? The sponsors who help support this show. You're listening to Feedback Friday here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and or services? You can always visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals for all the details.

on everybody that helps support the show. And now, back to Feedback Friday on the Jordan Harbinger show. All right, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm in my mid-30s, and I work a highly paid contractor job that I'm very grateful for, but that gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. I've also had serious issues with depression and self-harm throughout my life, and I intermittently have dark periods that entail a complete lack of motivation

and crying episodes that I cannot control. I've tried therapy with poor results, take my prescribed medication, and admittedly, drink too much. I hold myself accountable for all of this. I do not consider myself a victim in any way. Being in a dark period and dealing with frequent crying episodes right now, my ability to perform at work has been called into question, and I've essentially been told by my bosses that I'm on notice. I'm ashamed about my emotional state and I feel serious guilt because I know I have it better than so many others. I'm in this job due to a referral from a colleague who depends on me and who I can't afford to let down, and I can't leave my current job because of the serious ramifications this will have for my career. I simply have to man up and deliver right now.

How can I find meaning and motivation in a meaningless job so I can just do the basics, showering daily, showing up on time, and just getting through? Signed, Finding the Muse while singing the Blues. Ah, bud, all right, it sounds to me like you are really struggling right now. and that you've been struggling like this for a long time. And I'm really sorry to hear that you're in such a dark place right now. I can only imagine how stressful it must be to be called out by your boss for being so fragile

that they might fire you. You've been very open and direct with us here, and since we only have a few minutes to spend with you, I'm going to be pretty open and direct with you too because I think what you're going through right now, it's a bit of a wake-up call. So first off, the depression you're experiencing, the lack of motivation,

the impulse to self-harm, those are very debilitating and scary feelings, and you need all the help you can get working through them. So the first truth bomb I'm going to drop on you, and I hate that term, but I'm using it anyway. And it won't be much of a surprise, is that you need to stop drinking. This is serious stuff, man. You're drinking to numb the pain or quiet the thoughts or just escape your life, but all it's doing is kicking the can down the road. You're also basically pickling an already depressed brain in a depressant and making it harder to be present and do the work of sorting through the root causes of depression. I'm going to bossy know-it-all Uncle Jordan mode here and just tell you point blank, cut that shit out, man. And if you can't, then this has developed into a real

dependency and it's time to look into AA or other resources to get sober. Don't wait, just do it. This will be one of the best decisions of your life. And it'll make everything else you need to do so much easier. The second thing I'm going to drop on you, also not a huge surprise, I'm sure. Get back into therapy. Or if you're already there, you need to recommit to it.

You said you had poor results with therapy in the past, and I would figure out why that is. If it's because you were working with a lame therapist, then find a new one, a better one. If it's because you weren't really invested or you weren't doing the work on your own

to implement what you learned, which is very common, so no shade there. But let's be honest with ourselves here. Then it's time to show up to your sessions in a new way. I don't know you super well, of course, but I do know that if you're wrestling with all of this stuff, then you have a lot to work through.

No one can do that alone. Find someone good and start talking. Honestly, if I were you, I'd go to my next session with my existing therapist if you have one and just say, look, I haven't had good results from therapy in the past. Help me understand why. You need to go in there raw, focused, undefended, but also committed to figuring yourself out.

And if your medication doesn't seem to be working, which is also very common, then go back to your psychiatrist or find a new one and tell them what's up. I highly recommend doing that in conjunction with therapy, though. I'm not a psychologist, I'm not qualified whatsoever to tell you how to medicate yourself. But I can tell you that virtually all experts agree that medication is not a magic bullet. It is a tool. And it really works best in conjunction with talk therapy. And on that note, the last issue here is that your question, which is how can I find meaning

and motivation in a meaningless job so I can just do the basics, okay, it's a good question, but I actually think it's the wrong question. To me, that question speaks to you trying to manage the symptoms of your depression, skating on the surface of the problem so you can just muddle through this rough patch until it hopefully resolves itself. But that's the kick the can down the road mentality that led you here. The right question is, why do I feel the hopelessness? Where does my lack of motivation come from? Why do I want to hurt myself? And why am I struggling to process these feelings? Because motivation, that's not some rope you can just grab onto and ride through the shit show of life, even though there are a ton of cheesy hustle porn

YouTube videos and they'll tell you that. Finding meaning in life, it's obviously essential, but that's not something a couple guys on a podcast can just give you. That's something you have to create by committing yourself to something you really care about. putting in the work, asking the right questions, and creating meaning, that can be really hard when you're so depressed that you can't even take a friggin shower, right? Of course, if you don't care about anything, how do you create something you care about? Meaning is important, but I'm not sure meaning alone is going to lift you out of this cycle that you're in. Gabe, am I crazy? Am I being too tough on this guy? No, not at all. I was nodding along with everything you just said, but there's something

else in this letter that's really jumping out at me, and actually it might hold the key to why he's finding it so hard to get better. So early on in the letter, he says, what was it, that he holds himself accountable for all his feelings. He doesn't consider himself a victim in any way. And then later, he says that he feels ashamed about his emotional state, but he also feels kind of guilty because he knows he has it better than so many other people. And then at the end of the letter, he actually says that he can't quit his job. He just has to, what was it, man up and deliver right now? So it's interesting. on one hand, I hear a person who is taking ownership of his experience. He's not wallowing and self-pity. He's not blaming other people or creating a victim identity, which is, you know, that's admirable.

On the other hand, I also hear a person who isn't really allowing himself to acknowledge just how much pain he's in. I mean, here's a guy who's minimizing his own experience because some other hypothetical person must have it worse. We've all been there. And who also kind of feels like his only option is to stuff his feelings down and just power through. I get why he hasn't been able to work on this stuff. It sounds to me like he's not even really giving himself the space to fully acknowledge what he's going through, which is pretty heavy. So if I can pile on to Jordan's truth bombs for a moment, here's my truth bomb. You're not doing well, my dude. And that is okay. What you're going through, what you're describing, a lot of people go through that. It's being human, okay? And you're saying that

you're not a victim, you relativizing your own pain because somebody else must have it worse and you feeling like your only option is just grit your teeth and work harder, that's not getting you anywhere. I admire your strength. I respect, you know, that instinct to be self-sufficient. I really do. But I think it's time to say to yourself, you know what, I need help. I can't pretend like I'm above this anymore. I can't just wish these feelings away. The feelings are there no matter what. So now I have to figure out why they're there and what they mean and what I'm going to do with them because these uncontrollable crying fits, these dark periods, as you called them, they're trying to tell you something. So you can numb them or you can push them away, but that doesn't change the fact

that they contain information that you need to work through this. And working through it, that might make things more painful for a short period of time. It might make them more intense. It might make you feel even more vulnerable than you already feel, which I would imagine that's already pretty scary if it's starting to affect your work. But in the long term, I promise that it will get you much closer to the relief and the stability that you're looking for. That's what I would be focusing on right now. The meaning, the motivation, those things can come. They're important, but they're going to come after once you get your house in order. Man, that is so true, Gabe. There are probably a ton of variables contributing to this guy's depression, but the fact that he's basically neglecting himself

under the guise of being disciplined, that could be the thing that's perpetuating the depression, or at least it's an aspect of the root cause. So there you have it, man. Time to start showing up for yourself in a new way. Time to release the habits that aren't serving you and seek out the and resources that will. And if you do that, I've got a strong feeling that you'll find the motivation and meaning you want so badly,

but it starts with you. We're sending you good thoughts, man, take care of yourself. I think you've got this. Gabe, it's occurred to me as we reply to this guy's query here, if you're depressed, right, and you muster the motivation

to show up to work and you're kind of having trouble keeping up, but you're like kind of holding it together, that is much harder than getting the motivation to do other things like go to therapy and fix it. So this is already a strong guy.

He's got all of the tools he needs. He's not like, yeah, I just can't even like, it took me all day to type this email from my phone. Like, this is already a really strong person who's managing this with sheer brute force method banging his head against the wall. So once he actually plots the right course for this, he definitely has all those sort of raw materials

to see this through. He's just trying to ram his head through a brick wall instead of going through the front door. And I think that's probably part of the problem. It's such a good point. The energy he is spending on trying to just hold it together. He could be spending trying to work through it with the right people and maybe inviting a few friends in to help him. It's just that doesn't seem possible to him right now because in the depression, that seems so threatening. Yeah.

That's such a good point. I hope he gets to do that. Yeah, same. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier. If there's something you're going through, any big decision that you're wrestling with, or if you need a new perspective on stuff like life, love,

work. What to do if you're a creepy stepdad might be going after a new family. It's a crazy one from last week, Gabe. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Oh, by the way, Spotify has just started to allow podcast ratings. It would mean a lot to us if you took literally like 10 seconds to rate the show. Just go to the Jordan Harbinger show in Spotify on your mobile device. Click on the rating box. There's like three dots there. If you click on that, it'll say rate show. smash those stars, ideally five of them. I never thought as a podcaster, I'd be able to say smash that like button, but here we are. Five stars, depending on what you think we're worth.

And for more detailed review instructions, just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash review. And thank you very much in advance. I really appreciate it. I know Gabe does too. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 24-year-old construction worker, and I have a co-worker I will call Tim. Tim is mid-40s, divorced, and very lonely. In the last year, he met a girl online, and developed a relationship with her. I was fully supportive of it, since that's how I met my fiancé. Eventually, though, I realized that he's being played. His quote-unquote girlfriend is a Ukrainian model living in California, stuck in financial hardship due to COVID, and relying on his paychecks to live. He sends her upwards of $1,000 per month and has never even video-chatted with her. Her microphone

is always broken, as is her camera. He sends her money for a new phone, but she always has excuses. Meanwhile, he lives on instant noodles and handouts from other people. I've tried gently asking him questions to nudge him toward the truth, but he doesn't want to engage. I've also tried laying out my concerns directly, but he's told me that he'd rather figure this out on his own. I feel like deep down he knows he's being played, but his loneliness just won't allow him to accept it. I haven't made any recent attempts to talk to him about this, but I feel like I'm partially responsible because I'm not forcing him to see through the scam. Everyone else around us knows his situation, but nobody will say anything. I also don't want to ruin the working relationship we have by pushing too hard.

So how can I handle this while keeping his feelings intact? Signed, bursting this bubble without causing trouble. Oh, man, I've heard this story so many times over the years, and I've actually seen it play out a couple times with people that I know, and it is so awkward. So a friend, to keep this short, I was coming back from Ukraine. This is like literally 20 years ago now. And I see my buddy's wife standing at the gate.

And I'm like, oh, that's cool. They came to pick me, wait a minute. They don't know I'm coming back for it. Why are you here? What are you doing here? And she's like, oh, hey, Jordan. My uncle's girlfriend is coming in. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's cool.

Who's your uncle? And it's, you know, it's like a Michigan dude with a baseball cap on who's middle-aged. And I was like, you know, they have signs all like, welcome to a America and I was like, what's going on here? And it was really kind of, I kind of knew then that something might be up because it didn't sort of sit right with me. And I waited because my parents actually forgot to pick me up. I was 22. They literally forgot what day I was flying home. So I met Detroit airport. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting because my parents live like an hour away. And my friend, Jessica, she's like, so yeah, Maya, whatever

her name is like not here yet how many more people were on that flight do you think she got stopped at customs and i'm like well i don't well i don't think that there's that much more because there's no bags left on the on the baggage claim thing that doesn't mean they didn't take her bag because she's stuck in immigration that maybe they do that i don't know but it was just like another half hour goes by and it's just really really clear that she's not coming and of course they're trying to straighten out they don't want to leave yet in case she's caught in immigration all this stuff. Well, of course, it turned out that she didn't exist. She had sent him an email later on that day, like, oh, I got robbed on the way to the airport, which none of it made sense,

because I guess that same person, amateur as they were, forgot to tell them that they were, like, already at the airport or something like that. And then it's like, wait, what? So it didn't... What a pro. Yeah, it just didn't make any sense. It was like, you know, a chat app versus an email. And it was just a scam from the jump. This is very common. Everyone's seen catfished on MTV, right? It's a super common scam. So your boy, Tim, he's obviously very lonely, he's deeply insecure, probably naive, and it's just too threatening for him to even imagine the possibility that Oksana from Tinder is treating him like a piggy bank and in all likelihood has this scam going on with 12 guys at a time. It's so weird to me that

people fall for this stuff so easily, but I think that speaks to how badly some people want companionship. I mean, Gabe, how many times can someone say their laptop and phone and microphones and cameras on both are broken before you go, okay, this person clearly doesn't want to meet me. Yeah, I give it like two times you say that, and then I'm like, okay, this is not happening. Yeah, the dude's sending her thousands of dollars, thousands and thousands of dollars,

and she can't even borrow a friend's phone and call him on the video camera on WhatsApp for two minutes to say thank you. It's so obvious. Ah, Tim. All right, let's get into it. So here's the deal. What you've tried to do with Tim,

asking him questions, laying out your concerns, helping him see the situation objective, that's exactly what I would have told you to do. But as you've already done that, and Tim straight up told you he'd rather figure this out on his own, whatever that means to learn the hard way, whatever. So as far as I'm concerned, your part is done.

If you want to go further with him, which is a kind thing to do, then great, go for it. But in terms of saving a coworker who isn't your best friend from a situation like this, yeah, I think you've done your part. But if you do want to give it one more shot, then I would be even more direct with him. Not cruel, just direct. Maybe say, Tim, buddy, listen to me.

I know you like this girl. I know how nice it is to be needed by somebody, but I'm really worried about you, man. I know this isn't a fun conversation to have, but we're colleagues, we're buds, I wouldn't be a very good friend if I didn't tell you that you're caught up in a highly manipulative situation.

All I'm asking is that you hear me out for 10 minutes, keep an open mind, and then later you can decide what to do, and I'll respect it. But from where I'm sitting, I'm watching a nice, hardworking dude hand over a thousand bucks a month to a woman who won't even talk to him. If you were friends with that guy, would you tell him to stay in that relationship? Or would you tell him to seriously check this person out and reconsider if the relationship

is even real? Because if you continue down this path, I think you're going to get burned in a really bad way. And you're going to hate yourself for not asking some basic questions sooner. That's how I do it anyway. And I wouldn't be overly worried about ruffling this guy's feathers. You might be hurting his feelings a little bit. And he's probably going to try to derail the conversation by getting defensive. But maybe he needs to have his feelings hurt a little bit, just a little bit, because his feelings are what is keeping him stuck in the con. Yeah, that is exactly right. You have to make it safe for this guy to consider a very different angle on the situation, which is super scary for him.

You know, it's threatening, like Jordan said to the ego. but you also have to be blunt enough to make him snap out of this delusion that he's in. It's actually interesting. It's kind of like talking to somebody who's in a cult, right? They have so much invested in believing that the organization they're a part of is good, that they're helpful, that the leaders have their best interests at heart, that it's super threatening for them to stop and go, wait a minute, maybe these people don't have the answers.

Maybe I don't need them. So it's a very hard line to walk, but if you can do both of those things, then you might have a shot at getting through to him. But if Tim just doubles down and refuses to engage with you, then I think you've really done your part. I mean, he's going to have to come to this realization on his own. He will get there eventually. I don't know when.

Could be a couple months. Could be a couple years. Who knows, but it'll happen eventually. Unfortunately, he might have to lose a lot more time and money and also face before he realizes that you were right. But when that happens, I would definitely be there for him. You know, I wouldn't crack any jokes at his expense. I'm assuming you guys do that all day long because you guys are construction. workers. Can you imagine like, hey, your fake girlfriends on the phone? Hes ha ha ha ha, sucker.

Idiot. Yeah, none of that. Like, none of the I told you so and like mocking him for the next six months. I would just be kind and supportive because I'm guessing he's already going to feel terrible at that point. Terrible. He's going to need good buddies around to help him move through that, you know, more than ever. Just tell him you're glad he's come to his senses and just to help him get free of this woman, this freaking vampire squid. And if you feel like there's an opening there, Maybe you can help him look at what kept him in this relationship, what, you know, what drew him to this relationship in the first place. So he doesn't do this all over again when he, you know, swipes right on Masha from Moldova in six months. I'm just saying, I'm just, you know, the guy has a type.

It could happen again. It's not Masha. It's probably Misha, some dude in Moscow sitting back, counting his rubles pretending to be a woman on Tinder. Meanwhile, he's making dating for actual Eastern European women so much harder. Oh, good point. Right, because the real women are like, oh, why does everybody think I'm going to ask them for money? Like, why does everyone think I was a scammer or a bot? I will tell you this.

When I was living in Ukraine, again, literally 20 years ago, there were only cyber cafes. So, or at least for what I needed to do, there was no internet in the family that I was living with, their house. So I would go there and spend a lot of time there, especially like any downtime I was just hanging out there. And there were numerous times where there'd be like one guy seated at a computer. and I'd be looking over his shoulder and he'd be typing in English like, oh, I'm looking for my soulmate right now. And I would used to think that these guys

were actually dating, maybe talking to women or even having a same-sex relationship with some of the guys in the photos. And then they started bringing in the girls and they would be telling the girls in Russian because I was in Odessa, here's what's going on, the guy lives, does this.

They're familiarizing them with the story so that when they have to talk to this guy eventually to prove that they're real, they're filled in. But meanwhile, this guy was doing everything. And again, I gave them the benefit of the doubt thinking, oh, he's translating. And then I realized, no, he's making up everything and he's telling them what to remember. And then he's asking them for money. Because I saw this over a period of months. So I'm a hundred percent sure I knew what I was looking at. Whoa. Yeah. So you had a front row seat to this

front row. It was fascinating. It was like a documentary happening right in front of me because this guy would bring in multiple women. This one guy in particular, he'd sit right next to me. He had no shame about it at all. Yeah, it was a job. And he would just say, hey, I need a new phone or hey, I need a computer. And often it was like my grandmother's in ill health. I need $1,500 for medical treatment. And guys would be transferring money often via PayPal and probably some bank wire stuff and didn't pay that close of attention to that part. But he would be getting money from them in that way. And it was just like shameless fraud. It was really sad to see this. Dude, cyber cafes, huh? Oh my gosh. Yeah, because internet is so private, right?

Everything, think about everything you do on the internet. Some of it's fine, but some of it's weird as hell. Some weird Googles. Yeah. Some weird stuff. So, I don't know. What have you seen at cyber cafes? I don't know.

I'm trying to remember it. But like every time I've been in a cyber cafe, something weird has happened. Like, I remember the first time I backpack through Latin America, I would pop into cyber cafes because I didn't have a BlackBerry yet. And now you can't get one because they don't exist anymore. Correct. That's how long it's been. I don't know.

I just remember being in a cafe and like Guatemala and there was a guy just like just watching like the most horrific hardcore pornography I've never seen in my life. Like sipping a latte with one hand. Yeah, like, another hand under the keyboard. Yeah, who knows what the other hand is. He's just one hand, like,

throwing back some Yerba Matae and the other just like frantically clicking the mouse. Yeah, just like, no shame. Just like, yeah, there's like a little partition, like a little, you know, a little splash guard between the computers. Literally in this case, it's a splash guard.

So gross. Oh, you didn't know. So gross, but he just didn't care. I mean, just, and meanwhile, I'm like, dear mom. Today I saw some amazing ruins. Oh, my God. Oh, man, cybercat. Yeah, now I've heard that the real perves go to the library and use the computers there for that.

And it's considered like a free speech issue. They have to let them do that. It's unreal. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you can't censor things that are publicly funded and yada yada. It's so basically dot, dot, dot, crazy people look at porn. at the library on the computer. Oh, man.

Anyway, Tim's going to wake up eventually. You know he will. The hard part will be watching somebody that you care about, even a little bit. Make a horrendous mistake. But that's how it works, right? Tim's living his life. You're living yours.

You got to let him walk his own plank on this one. And you sound like a solid homie, though. I mean, he's lucky to have you looking out for him. At the end of the day, your boy really needs to learn how to look out for himself. And after this blows up, I'm pretty sure that he will. Gabe, there's a little bit more here

that we didn't really address it. We don't really have time for, but it's like there's an element of escapism for this guy. I mean, he knows he's being played. It's so freaking obvious. You know, he's in denial. When he said, I want to figure this out for myself,

you don't say that when you know a relationship is real, you go, hey, don't worry about me, it's all good. You don't say, I'll figure this out the hard way, right? Like, he knows that it's going to be, but he just has nothing else going on in his life right now. He rationalizes at some level, even if it's fake, it's still companionship and it's still entertainment and still something to look forward to, even if it's completely bullshit. That's what I think. And that's sad. That's extra sad on top of everything.

But you know who won't pretend to be a 20-something model and siphon off all your money? The sponsors who help support this show. This is the Jordan Harbinger show and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right. What's next? Hey Jordan and Gabe. In the last couple months, I was admitted to the ER for suicidal ideation, which was triggered by my insecurities about my partner's romantic past and diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I can objectively look at the situation and know that I'm being irrational, but that doesn't stop my physiological response of immense emotional pain. Part of BPD is intense fear of abandonment and my situation is self-perpetuating.

My partner's been supportive of me through all of this and I'm taking a higher than normal dose of medication, as well as doing DBT, which is the most successful therapy for this disorder, but I know it's difficult for her to deal with on a day-to-day basis. So my question is, am I wasting her time by putting her through this? Signed, needing a shoulder while I cross this border. Wow, dude, you've been through quite a lot recently. This is quite a tale. I'm sorry that you ended up being hospitalized. That must have been friggin terrifying, especially now in the middle of a pandemic, but it sounds like that led you to a helpful diagnosis, to medication, to dialectical behavior therapy. Actually had to Google that, of course, which is apparently an

excellent modality for BPD, and that's ultimately a great thing. You sound like a very thoughtful person. You're going through something pretty intense, and you're still able to care about your partner's experience in all this, and I know those qualities are going to serve you really well in your treatment. But given all that, I was actually surprised by your question. I thought you were going to ask, you know, am I doing everything I can to get better or how do I get over this fear of abandonment or something like that? But what you're actually asking is if you're wasting your partner's time, which is, well, that is definitely, that speaks to your thoughtfulness, but I also think it's a very telling question. Because where my mind goes, is you worrying about whether you're

wasting your partner's time while you work through your BPD? Is that itself a reflection of the fear of abandonment? Because a huge part of your experience is worrying that people are going to leave you, right? That often makes them want to leave, which then confirms for you that people are going to leave you, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, very common with BPD, from what I understand. So here you are wrestling with these thoughts and feelings, noticing how an intimate relationship brings up a lot of these vulnerable aspects of your personality. And instead of thinking, wow, I'm really lucky to be with a woman who's willing to support me while I work on this stuff, you're thinking, man, am I just wasting her time? Am I too much?

do I need to maybe let her go? And to be clear, I'm not judging any of these questions. I'm just noticing them along with you, but they actually make sense through the borderline lens, through the BPD lens. But what's interesting to me about your question is that it might just be another reflection of the very disorder that you're working so hard to resolve. Gabe, does that make sense? I know I'm kind of like getting spun up here. No, no, no. I think you're onto something huge. There's an aspect of his question that is so considerate. He's being a good partner, really, by wondering if this is more than his partner can reasonably take on. But there's another aspect to this question that just might be a coded version of,

you know, is this person going to leave me? And should I leave her before she leaves me? And if that's the case, I would look at that question very closely. Definitely take it into therapy and unpack it with your therapist. Because ultimately, really, that's a question for your partner. That's not a question for us. She's the only one who can answer it. But if you do ask her, I would really sit with that question and be very conscious

about how you frame it. because if you say to her, listen, I'm feeling like all this stuff I'm going through is a lot for you. Maybe it's more than you signed up for. I'm afraid of you leaving, but also I hate making you feel like I'm afraid of you leaving. So maybe I should just let you go right now. If you frame it like that, then I think you might be acting out that, you know, abandonment script. But if you say something like, listen, I've been wondering lately what my treatment has been like for you. I want to know if supporting me while I do this work is a lot or if it's manageable or what is it like for you? If there's something I can do to make it easier, I would love to know, or if you just want to talk about it, I'm here to listen.

You know, that's a very different question. The first question will probably contribute to the self-fulfilling prophecy that Jordan talked about a moment ago, but the second one would just open up space for you guys to talk openly about what this is like for each of you without also imposing this other narrative that you have on the conversation of, you're going to leave me. And that might be hard for you to do right now. It might take a little bit of time for you to build up to that. And that's totally fine. You might want to prep for the conversation in therapy and then bring whatever comes up in the conversation with your partner back into therapy so you can look at it with your therapist together. But you learning how to ask this question the right way, I have a

feeling that that'll be a really powerful part of working through these symptoms, you know, teaching yourself how to relate to your partner, how to ask her questions in a way that doesn't perpetuate this fear that she's going to leave you. Yeah, that's a great point, Gabe. It's almost like his impulse to ask this question in the first place. That's the answer. he's looking for. He wants to know if he's too much, but really the meaningful thing is that he's already convinced that he's too much. Exactly. So I dig into that question a bit more on your end, and whenever you catch yourself assuming that someone's going to leave, just maybe ask yourself, is that the BPD talking or is that me talking? The more you can separate those two out,

the more I think you'll start to observe the disorder instead of being run by it completely. And I know that's a little simplistic, but I think you know what I'm getting at. I mean, just by writing into us, you've already shown that you are bigger than this programming, the program that you're running in your head that's causing this in the first place. And I love your commitment to getting better. I know it's hard. I know it's bringing up some painful stuff, but this is the way through, man. Keep up the good work.

By the way, if you're joining us for the first time or you want to tell your friends about the show, the episode starter packs are a good way to do that. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topic to help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start to get started. All right, next up. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I've got a weed addiction that I've been trying to shake for years. I'm 21 now, and I started smoking when I was 15. I used it to cope with parental issues in my teens and on weekends with friends,

but now with the parental issues gone and my friends no longer smoking, I'm pretty much left alone with my addiction. I now spend around $40 a week on weed, and I can't help myself from smoking every single day. This addiction is hurting my career, my love life, and my school life. My family hates weed, and I would definitely get fired and kicked out of college if I got caught. I've tried everything I can think of to stop myself, but I've decided that I need help. I cannot do this alone. So what options do I have for getting clean without letting anyone find out about my addiction? Signed, no sticks, no stems, no needs. Well, thank you for writing in, my friend. I do really appreciate your candor here.

I got to say you've already done one of the hardest parts of getting healthy, which is admitting that you have an addiction and you need help. And I really commend you for that, especially when it comes to weed. Sometimes with cannabis, it's hard to see when you really have a problem because it's so accepted now. And with weed, you're just hitting a vape or you're smoking a J or you're doing a little edible or whatever it is. You're not railing lines at nightclubs on a toilet paper dispenser in a stall every weekend, right?

Or shooting up in a friggin' Denny's bathroom during lunch or whatever. But weed dependency is real, even if it's less obviously destructive. Some people never realize that they're abusing it. And I'm proud of you for noticing this pattern in your life and wanting to change it. And Gabe, this reminds me of, is it half-baked the movie where, like, Bob Saggett stands up and goes, what? You're addicted to weed? You've never said, dit for weed. Come on, man.

You know, and he goes into, yeah, the Coke thing. And it's kind of like, you made a joke out of it, of course, because many folks really wouldn't consider this to be a real thing. You know, pop culture says you can't even be addicted to it, right? But of course, we know that's not true. So real quick, just like with any addiction, there are a ton of resources out there for you. There are narcotics anonymous meetings all over the world. There's marijuana anonymous specifically. There's talk therapy.

There are support groups. There's addiction recovery forums and subreddits. The list goes on and on. Not going to get into all that here. But we're going to link to a bunch of those resources for you in the show notes. And I highly encourage you to check them out. Go to the show notes right here on your phone or on the website at your Gordon Harbinger.com, you'll find a bunch of the links that we collected for you.

And since I know you're concerned about keeping this a secret, keep in mind that recovery groups are anonymous. I mean, it's really right there in the name. They take privacy very seriously. Also, a ton of these meetings have moved online during the pandemic. So if you're concerned about even showing your face, you could actually log into a remote NA or MA meeting. You probably don't even have to have the camera. And you probably won't even have to leave your home or your bed. Certainly no camera, just ease in by listening to other people's stories for a few meetings. Honestly, it's never been easier to get the help that you need. And by the way, years ago, I went to A&& and a few others just to check them out because I wanted to feel more

familiar and more comfortable recommending them. And I had friends that were in there. And they're like, yeah, just come with me. They're not awkward at all. Sometimes they're actually quite fun and they're almost always interesting. It's not constant sort of staged cringe like you see in some movies or shows where everything seems really high pressure and everyone's staring at you. Just give it a shot, especially now that you can do it on Zoom and you don't even have to go park at some church 30 miles away. But I do want to talk about the privacy thing for a moment because I think it's really interesting. I hear you that your family hates weed. You get fired or kicked out of college if you got caught. Great reasons, by the way, for getting sober. That's an amazing motivator, consequences like that.

So I understand that you wouldn't want to go to your mom or your boss and be like, oh, I've been smoking cushions. I got my learner's permit. Help. You know, that's not going to go. well, but I do think that it's important to open up to people outside your immediate circle, people who are safe. Maybe you have one or even two friends you really trust who would agree to keep your sobriety private, or a therapist, or the people you meet at the meeting, people who are also in recovery, maybe even a sponsor. These relationships, they're essential to getting sober and staying there. All the research confirms that strong, intimate relationships with one or even two people, that's one of the key variables in staying sober.

Anyone involved in the recovery community knows you don't go around blabbing about other people you meet in recovery, and everyone in recovery is going through the same journey. So I get your desire to keep this a secret, but I encourage you to find your people, open up to them, let them open up to you. I think you'll find an incredible source of support in those relationships. And while we're on this subject, that really goes for anyone trying to achieve a big goal or create any kind of lasting change in their life, whether it's quitting a substance or getting in shape

or learning a job or starting company or finding a partner or whatever it is. I don't mean to get on my soapbox here, but the older I get, the more it becomes clear to me. We cannot do the big stuff alone. We just can't. I know, I know.

We all want to do the hard work and struggle and transform in total anonymity so we can look perfect to the outside world. I get it. I've been there. But that is just not how real change works. We need one another. That is how we are wired.

The real meaningful changes, they never happen in a vacuum. They always happen through our relationships, which is why I keep banging on about them here on the show every single week. So take that into your weekend and into your 2022. I promise it'll take you way further than you ever thought you could go on your own. And I hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much.

Go back and check out Ray Dalio and Sean Acore if you haven't yet. If you want to know how I manage to book all the great people you hear on the show, I manage all of my relationships, my friendships, my friendships included, using software systems and tiny habits. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty in our six-minute networking course. That course is free. It's over on the think-ithic platform at jordanharbinger.com slash course. The drills take just a few minutes per day.

It's helped me a lot over the past couple of decades. It really has been crucial for me. Find it all for free, jordanharbinger.com slash course. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts also in the show notes. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogartie, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Today is our intern Cole Hume's last day. Cole, thank you for all your

work on the show these past few months, your research and behind the scenes coordination were fantastic, and we're wishing you all the best in your future endeavors. Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found this episode useful, please do share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger show to sink your teeth into,

here's a trailer with poker star Annie Duke on how we can learn to make better decisions by thinking in bets instead of trying so hard to be certain all the time. The quality of your life is determined by the sum of two things, the quality of your decisions and luck. When something bad happens to us, we act as a skill wasn't involved at all. We just sort of pawned off to the luck element. But when good things happen, we sort of ignore the luck element, and we say that it was because of our great skill.

A self-driving Uber just hit and killed a pedestrian. But what I thought was really interesting was that the reaction was to suspend the testing and just to take the cars off the road, not just the Uber cars, but other self-driving vehicles. And what I didn't see were any comparisons to how self-driving vehicles did per thousand miles traveled versus the technology that we already have on the road, which is cars that are driven by human. We know that 6,000 pedestrians die per year by regular driven cars.

Let's say that you're on the side of the road and you've got a flat tire. And of course, what everybody's thinking in that moment is I have the worst life ever. Like, why do these things always happen to me? I'm so unlucky. I'm so miserable. What's really interesting to me about it is like you could have gotten a promotion,

like the biggest promotion of your life three days before and you're not standing on the side of the road going, my life's great, because I just got the biggest promotion I could ever imagine. So imagine that you had this flat tire a year ago. And now I'm asking you today, a year later, how much do you think that that flat tire would have affected your overall happiness over the year? For more with any Duke, including some common mistakes we make when evaluating decisions, check out episode 40 here on the Jordan Harbinger show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time.

If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life.

Something You Should Know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.