The Jordan Harbinger Show - 616: Martin Kove | Kicking It in the Cobra Kai Dojo

Episode Date: January 25, 2022

Martin Kove (@MartinKove) is a prolific actor best known for his portrayal of the evil karate sensei, John Kreese, in The Karate Kid trilogy and Netflix's Cobra Kai series. Be on the lookout as he hosts the upcoming Kicking It with the Koves podcast with his kids Jesse and Rachel. What We Discuss with Martin Kove: How Martin nailed his audition for The Karate Kid by channeling his anger at not having ample time to prepare for it. Why we need more role models for leadership and personal responsibility in popular culture -- in the western genre, if Martin had his way. How Martin finds common ground with the hard-to-love characters he sometimes portrays in order to make them relatable. Does playing villains for months on set ever rub off on Martin's real-life behavior (and does this tend to work for or against him)? How does Martin look so young and stay in shape as a 74-year-old? And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/616 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss the show we did with Jonathan Haidt — the social psychologist who studies the American culture wars and is widely considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on the psychology of morality? Catch up with episode 90: Jonathan Haidt | The Danger of Good Intentions and Safe Spaces! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

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Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. So this producer, my biggest fan, says, we want you to play this role just like you did in Karate Kid. And the little click happened here. I reached in, took out this 357, put it under his chin, and I said, don't ever tell an actor how to play a role.

At the door, I turned around to these guys, and I said, gentlemen, I hope we can do business. Ten minutes later, I got the call, and I got the role I wanted. Try to do that now. You're going to prison. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show,

we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts and entrepreneurs, spies and psychologists, even the occasional drug trafficker,

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Now, today, not our typical episode, more of a celebrity profile in a way, not the usual fare for the Jordan Harbinger show, but a fun conversation, especially if you grew up with the karate kid and you maybe watch Cobra Kai now, the number one show on Netflix. If you're new to the show, I would say try another episode of the show at first just to get a feel for how we do around here. This is a fun one, but again, not our typical episode.

Today's guest starred in The Karate Kid as Sensei John Crease. Of course, he's also reprising that role in Cobra Kai on Netflix. He's also been in Rambo and in over a hundred other movies, which has to be close to a record. I know Danny Trejo was on the show a couple years ago now. Who knows at the pandemic timing. but he's been in hundreds of movies, unbelievably. Martin Cove most recently was in Tarantino's 2019 film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. So he's basically the Darth Vader of Karate, or at least the Darth Vader of the Karate Kid series, and Cobra Kai.

I thought this was an interesting and fun conversation. I hope you will agree. And if you're wondering how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, it's always about my network, and I'm teaching you in our course how to build your network for free over at jordanharbinger.com slash course. The course, called Six-Minute Networking, is about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring others to develop a personal and professional relationship with you. It'll make you a better networker, a better connector, and a better thinker. That's all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course, and most of the guests you hear on the show

subscribe and contribute to the course as well, so come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Now, here we go with Martin Cove. The Cobra Chi is number one on Netflix. It's not even just number one in the United States and Canada. It's number one in like 100 countries, or it has been at one point, number one in over 100 countries. Is it that people are obsessed with nostalgia and the 80s? I mean, I can get behind that.

Well, it's a combination, I think. There's a couple of reasons. And I go through this with walking in the supermarket and people telling me how much they love my character, how much they love the show. They always depict that this is a show that we all can watch together. We watch the movies. And they would say, I want my children to see the movies. but they wouldn't see the movies. Then they saw Cobra Kai and they came to me and said,

let's watch the movies, Dad. So they go back and watch the movies, and they get a sense of John Crease, they get a sense of Johnny Lawrence, of Daniel LaRousseau. And it's a show that everybody can get around the TV, like the old days with Ed Sullivan, and everyone can get something out of it. Everyone.

It doesn't matter if you're 16 or 46. There's something there because the writing is so good, so identifiable that it's the writers, just like Kamen. Robert Kamen wrote Karate Kid 1, 2, and 3, was still saying, wax on, wax on, wax on. Oh, yeah.

Sweep the leg, no mercy. Those lines usually constitute a great story and script as the source. It's a comfort food, in a way, for trying times. You know, people want nostalgia now more than ever as well, and I think some of it is longing for better times, but I think some of it is, I'm 41. I love being able to experience that same feeling,

of watching the karate kid again, even though I'm 41. Like, it doesn't get old. You think when you're older, you can enjoy things like that as much, but you definitely can, which I think is one of the sort of cravings that the series serves. I know you studied Okinaw and Karate. I did when I was a teenager. I studied under Master Willie Adams out of Detroit. I don't know if that rings any bells for you, if you know who that is.

I studied here with Gordon Doversola. He was out of L.A. Oh, okay. Because there's a couple of good teachers across the state. that teach Okinawate. Yeah. Yeah, this was Ishinru is sort of different, I suppose,

or similar branches. A lot of people probably don't realize that you practice martial arts in real life. You know, I think a lot of folks, actors, they just learn a few moves where the stuntmen do most of the heavy lifting and the actor has to be trained how to even just make a fist

or something like that for several months before. I'm wondering when you started that because I know you grew up in Brooklyn, you're a Jewish kid in Brooklyn, but you probably needed karate in the 60s and 70s. That's very funny.

Yeah, we got into a lot of fist fights. Back in Brooklyn, we used to play tackle. We used to play two-hand touch on the streets in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, but we tackled. We never touched. We always tackled because we were just, I guess, tough. But it was actually a movie called The Lion of Ireland, which was the story of Brian Baru, the first king of Ireland, who unified all the tribes of Ireland against the Vikings. who were raiding the coast.

We were working in the dojo, working on a lot of Kendo, but the foundation was karate. And you needed to learn karate. I really didn't earlier. This is 1982. A month later, I was in on Karate Kid, and I had that foundation of karate.

You know, and I knew Kendo, because we were working with plywood axes that were four or five feet tall, learning how to work them within the confines of the style. And that time it was Taekwondo. But it was never a prerequisite to do those movies to be a martial artist. You know, they entertained Chuck Norris as maybe being John Crease at the time.

And to Shiramafumi, you know, being Miyagi. But it was really Jerry Wynchrabbe who originally nixed Pat Marita. And then John Avelson went out and made a little tape of Pat Marita and brought it in and said, This is the guy, Jerry. And that's how they got Pat. They got me because I was hostile in my audition, and I was doing Cagney and Lacey. What do you mean you're hostile in your audition?

Well, it's a funny story. I go in, I get a call. I go into the casting woman. She says, here's the script, Martin. Nice lady. My name is Caro Jones. And she says, we'll call you in on Friday to meet the director, John Avelson.

I get a call the next morning at 9 o'clock. It's now and never. He wants to see you at noon. I say, Kara, I haven't worked on the script. And she says, nope, it's now and never. So my wife says to me at the time, and it was Vivian, she says, why don't you use the anger

and the venom that you feel right now when you do the scene? And the scene was when I'm walking up and down the aisles in the dojo. Mercy is for the week, here on the streets. You know, I'm barking these lines. And I said, okay, that sounds good. I was doing Cagnolacea on hiatus.

I had nothing to lose. They didn't like me or they were insulted what I was going to do, so be it. So I go there and I get ready to go and I say, John, you're a real asshole, John. I said, John Avelson, we wait for years to meet directors of your caliber, and you'll give me no time to prep. You're an ass, and so are you, Carol Jones.

Boom, go right into, mercy is for the week with all that venom. He loves it. He was secure enough to love it. I did the same thing to Jerry Weintraub. He loved it, and it worked. Wow. So you got the part by being John Crease in the audition, but without knowing who John Crease was because you had

looked at the script, or you barely looked at the script. I barely looked at the script, but the script was a one-dimensional heavy. Yeah. We didn't even like the title. It was like a Bruce Lee movie, the karate kid. So we had no idea it was going to be as successful as it was. It was a good story. Lovely script.

I often have this conversation with Robert Kamen, and I say, the stars of the movie are you and your words. He says, no, it's the charisma between Miyagi and Ralph. And we have this ongoing debate. And I believe, as we've talked about before, the Western. The Western needs a great script to return as the genre we once had years ago. It's overexposed. You don't get the material because from 1920 to 1967,

one of every three movies coming out of Hollywood was a Western. So it's a highly overexposed genre. So you've got to work really hard to get a karate kid in the Western genre. And that's what we need. That's what we've got to find. That's what I've been looking for. And we'll find it. We'll get it. And we'll return those heroes. The moral fiber of those Western heroes will bring them in, you know, to a society right now that needs heroes so badly. I couldn't agree more with that. I definitely agree there. I think right now we see a lot of role models. They say things like, well, I never asked to be a role model. Well, you don't really have a choice if you're in the spotlight. And what are you going to do? Just abdicate moral responsibility. because you don't want it? Like, when did we learn that that was okay?

I don't understand that. Maybe this is the Boy Scout in me, but you don't really have a choice, but to lead when people are looking to you. You don't get to not do it. You're absolutely right. You can't teach that. You have got to instinctively have to do it.

I was talking to my lady friend about being a soldier and being a good businesswoman and being a soldier of business, Not a soldier of filmmaking or sensitivity in the arts, but a soldier in business. And people as soldiers, our authorities are good at what they do. Not everybody can do both, but if you are a leader and you're in that position and people will follow you and you have moral fiber and you have integrity, I think about it a lot with John Crease.

He's tough. Do you give awards to kids who are in second, third, and fourth place? or do you only give awards to winners, despite how hard those other kids try? Their forte, they may be soldiers of the computer, soldiers of art, soldiers of music. They may not be the athletes of the guy who wins first place. John Crease only thinks first place is the only one that's important. I'm in that dilemma as an actor myself. If I coach baseball where I give those participation trophies, is it appropriate?

they're looking at me like a leader. I'm the coach. And it gets more and more with greater responsibilities. It's more than just a trophy. Yeah, I haven't quite figured that out as a father yet either. You want to encourage effort, but you don't want to make it the same thing as results. It was interesting before you said,

you didn't think the karate kid would be anything special. You didn't like the title. Was there another reason? And when did you find out like, okay, wait a minute, I changed my mind. This is amazing. Was it after you saw ticket sales, or did you just see like a final cut and go,

I get it now. It disappeared. I went right into Cagney and Lacey on the third season, I think. It just kind of disappeared. They're re-editing and John Avelson edits everything in his head. So, you know, I saw some of the footage and I liked it and I used it as an acting reel for myself. I was working in Eugene, Oregon. And my wife at the time went with my son to see the movie.

And I said, how was I? She says, oh, the movie was great. And I said, well, how was I? and she said, well, you're okay. You know? So then I immediately thought, oh, boy, I mean, God of what did I do? And eventually, within a week or two, I saw the movie and I saw it was a very good film. You know, but I remember when I did once about a time in Hollywood, I was at the theater, at the premiere, and I got the wrong seats.

And I have the opening scene in the movie. And I got up to get through the right seats that someone had given my girlfriend and I had the wrong seat. and I missed the scene. Right? Yeah, that's terrible. So I watched the whole movie and I said, God, I guess he cut me out. You know, Quentin cuts people out, you know, frequently. It's okay.

And I love making the movie with him. So, you know, then all of a sudden out there in the lobby, Eli Roth comes up to me and says, hey, man, you were great. We didn't see enough of you. Wish there was more, but you were terrific. And my publicist comes up and says, yeah, your voice really resonates on the screen in this Western scenario with DeCaprio. I said, you saw me?

She says, yeah. So I realized I was in the movie, you know? So strange things happen all the time when the premieres and you never really know. Until you sit there and analyze it, my son just got a part as White Earp in a prequel. Oh, wow. That's cool. That's a cool part. Prequel to Tombstone.

And it's great. It's when Doc Holliday and Wyatt Earp first meet in Dodge City. And it's written beautifully. It's the moments now in my life that matter. the moments and giving back to get that genre going again so kids can experience the pleasure I experienced in the 60s when there were 35 Westerns on primetime television. 35. I just would like to create a project like that.

Be the actor on Time Magazine, the actor who rejuvenated the Western, and then I could die. Yeah. I mean, you get your work cut out for you, but I think it would be a welcome reprise of that particular genre. How is playing a villain different than playing other characters in a film or series, or is acting just acting regardless of the role? Years ago, I was lazy and I didn't do backstories. I didn't create relationships, unwritten relationships. So they're not in the script.

And now I do it feverishly. And with John Crease, I have pages of what his life was like with his parents, what it was like with his girlfriend, what it was like in Vietnam. and there are times when you play a character that you don't like, that you say, I have nothing in common with. There was a movie called Price for Freedom, and I played the Ayatollah Kumani's right-hand man. Oh, wow.

If you wore a red shirt, you were condemned because you were sympathetic to the West. And I said, what do I have in common with this guy? And I had nothing in common with him. But what you have to do is make him feel that he is, serving his people. He is a hero to his people. He is doing the right thing for his following, the population there in that world, whatever the world is. It's Genghis Khan. It's Genghis Khan and his people. So in that case, I felt that I was a hero to my people. I psyched myself into that,

but this guy was a monster. He was a monster that you or I would have nothing in common with and no sensitivity whatsoever. But you had to fulfill your responsibilities as an actor. I put a pair of glasses on, had a full beard with a turban. Best thing in the movie. When you say you have pages about John Crease's relationships and backstories, are you just sitting down and sort of thinking about it in writing this out like, all right, his girlfriend, she's a mess and his relationship with his dad was terrible. He was bullied and his dad instead of being sympathetic, just told him he was weak and was distant. Like, do you write all these things down on paper, essentially?

Well, I don't get that specific. You know, what kind of relationship you have with his mother and his father, with the captain, things that are really pertinent. And you can't really write every day of his life on there. The pertinent moments that create a character, that make a character, like Zorro, for instance. I remember when Anthony Hoppkins is teaching Antonio Banderas, and Antonio Banderas says, I know how to do this. I can fight.

Anthony Hopkins zeroed in on telling them what the essence is to be Zorro. The essence that this is what you've got to maintain, this is what you've got to overcome. And there were subtleties, just subtleties. You know, how to be a gentleman, how to be charming. It wasn't about sword fighting. It wasn't about how well he ride Tornado, his horse. It was about the subtleties of being done Diego de la Vega.

It was great. I love that scene. It was about how you have to take your character and find the most important points. Because a lot of times the narration, the narrative in the script is about action and what happens to the character. But it doesn't say why he's operating the way he does. And you've got to find that yourself. You've got to do that. And sometimes it's just a page or two of notes.

Sometimes it's going back and looking at those movies again. and seeing that John Crease wasn't turned on by his kids winning and karate kid won't, and he wasn't turned on by them losing. He preferred them to win, but he was always masked. He was always a guy who wanted his kids to win, but if they didn't win, he was upset. If they did win, he wasn't ecstatic. Right.

It was just a level of, I guess, almost he's preserving what he finds important, which is to be triumphant. But there was never an emotional reaction one way or the other, and that tells you a lot about the character. There's something missing in his soul that needs to be brought out,

and you can bring it out. It's not written. You have to bring it out, and you have fun. I think rehearsal and development of a character is often more fun than the actual acting on a set. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger show

with our guest, Martin Cove. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to the show. I love creating it for you. I love the fact that you love to listen to it and learn from it. All those discount codes, all those sponsor codes, they can be hard to remember. So we put them all in one place. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals is where you can find them. Please do consider supporting those who make this show possible. Now, back to Martin Cove. How do you go about learning the attributes of people that you aren't necessarily like, but maybe they have skills or attributes you can use

to your advantage. How do you absorb character traits of somebody you admire or need to become more like, whether it's an acting or real life? Well, I remember working with Sean Connery. One of my first jobs, that was his stand in, in a movie called The Anderson Tapes. I was doing plays in New York and Lincoln Center and all that. It was 1972. And the most exciting thing I ever remember happening to me was watching him act and listen. He was so interesting. He was so interesting, to watch when he was listening. It was just amazing, truly amazing. There are certain things that you have to operate instinctively with.

The material, a lot of times, it doesn't explain enough information for you, the actor, and the director looks at you like, you know, John Evelson used to say, I didn't hire you to direct you. I hired you because you know what you're doing, and I expect you to be able to do it. He used to say that all the time. Every actor wants to go to a director and be nurtured. But a lot of directors don't do that, you know? So when that situation does happen, you're left to your instincts. To answer your question, your instincts with all the information from the backstories

and all the stuff you've created in between the lines, you throw it away and you just operate on instinct with the material at hand. and I believe that's the only way to do it. It's the only way to do it because most of the time you do make definitive decisions before the camera rolls, before that day is beginning,

back in your house during rehearsal. You've made the decision of what to do. But if it gets that complicated, then you just have to throw it all the way and operate instinctively. That makes sense. I wonder how much shared reality do you have with John Crease?

You know, does Sensee Crease come out when you get angry, for example? Great question, man. I have lost a relationship because last year I did six months of John Crease, six months of this guy. And he doesn't leave. He doesn't go away.

Billy and I talk about this all the time. Billy works more days on the show, so he's more in Johnny Lawrence than I am in John Crease. But it's not a matter of insanity. Like people would say, like what happened to Heath Leyen, or what happens to, you know, Daniel Day-Lewis on Lincoln, he just stays in the character

and doesn't really talk to anybody else. A lot of actors do that. But the character of John Crease, he's got high moral fiber, extremely high moral fiber. He's not really sensitive, but there's a lot of emotional texture to the character. And it's unfortunate that what he believes to be right is the only way to go. and that gets in the way of being, in a sense, sensitive and romantic and fun-loving like Martin Cove. That stuff stays inside where you become restricted because it's just a character that you're entertaining for months and months and months. You know, there's no pill you can take.

There's no medication. It's just the nature of the business. If you get so far into your character, you know, you have to take a departure from it for a couple of months and take a vacation and try to have a relationship without John Crease dropping in, you know? Yeah, I mean, I can see John Crease coming in handy when you're on the phone with the cable company or the credit card company or, you know, something is slowly not working for you. Maybe even when parenting occasionally, just occasionally, right? But yeah, probably not ideal when you're trying to have date night with the wife for the first time in a month and a half because you've been shooting.

And no mercy strike hard doesn't necessarily work well with the ladies, right? Not much of the time, anyway. It doesn't at all. And then if they hear you having a conversation with someone who has violated you or been irresponsible and their service to you and you're giving them the John Crease routine, which just comes up. You know, I'm very sensitive. I mean, I cry at supermarket openings. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm just, you know, I'm that kind of guy.

And my favorite movie is Casablanca. But I return to that darkness frequently, and it's unconscious. Then you have to make a deliberate effort to neutralize yourself. It's tough. It's really tough. People who don't experience it kind of say, oh, yeah, you don't go into that. Come on, you're kidding. Try it.

Try six months of portraying a character. You don't necessarily go home and have dinner as John Crease, but it's always in your instrument. It's always there when you pick up a script. You're right back in. I guess conversely, how often do people think you're acting when you're actually just really angry and annoyed? That's another good question.

I can have a resonant voice after dealing with the landscaper or the plumber or the doctor that didn't do what he was supposed to do. I can have a resonant, loud voice. and my girlfriend will immediately think I'm extremely angry, just by the resonance in my voice, not because I would not show her the anger that I have for these other characters. I divorce myself from it, and I come inside,

and just because my voice is up there in intensity, she thinks I'm angry at her or angry period, and I'm really not. It's just the residue. It's the residual effect of, being John Crease and dealing with those outside endeavors, you know? Yeah, it's like it's just under the skin poking through a little bit. Yeah.

I have to say you're in seemingly you're in pretty damn good shape for, are you 75 years old? 74. 74, okay. Well, almost. IMDB has it wrong by a year. Okay. I've tried to change it many times. It doesn't seem to work.

They won't let you. Yeah, how would you know how old you are? We have to verify this. Yeah, you're in pretty. darn good shape for 74. I assume you have a trainer, especially if you're working on Cobra Kai. They probably want you to be limber and in good enough shape for insurance purposes, if no other reason. Well, you know, last year, season four, I was lucky they didn't write many action sequences. Season five they did. Season five's in the can too. Season four was just

terrific, but it was a lot of acting, a lot of exciting elements for John Crease, which I really, the writers are terrific. We all signed on because we were persuasive. how good and how perceptive they were going to be with the characters. They weren't going to write John Crease one-dimensional. They weren't going to play them white hats and black hats. And I wanted as much vulnerability and texture and color as I could. And I said that's the only reason I'm signing on because I want to see this character develop,

is that how you see it. And they did. Hayden Schlossberg and Josh Shield and John Horowitz. They all see it the same way. They direct, they edit, they write. They do everything. There's no ego, which is so great for the show. We don't have a prima don'tana.

And we all just love the game. That's got to make it a hell of a lot easier and more fun to shoot. I'm looking at some of these fights that you're doing. A lot of people said, oh, ask him what stuff is him and what stuff is a stuntman, which is going to be impossible to explain. But I assume you're doing a lot of the stuff that looks like stand-up fighting, but you're not going through like a window or anything. You think like that, right?

No, that scene in the window was a great fight. That was a terrific fight. Yeah. By Billy, fight Ralph, go through the window. No, I didn't go through the window, but I did most of the other stuff in the dojo and fought Billy. And most of it is me. There's a couple of places they choose to have the stuntman. But our stuntman, Ken is brilliant.

And he runs the show. And he's my stuntman, plus he's the coordinator. And I think the show was nominated for stunt work for an end. Emmy two years in a row. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. But, you know, we all like it, and we all want to be on camera to show that we're really doing it. And we have a thing about it, that all three Ralph, Billy and I, and where we can be ourselves, be the actor doing it, we will. That scene, especially, it was a great fight scene, going through the window and all that.

And then we end up, you know, outside the window playing the scene. The studded guys would go through the window, but we were standing in the broken glass, you know? Just bare feet and broken glass and 2 o'clock in the morning. But it was so rich. It was so good. And, you know, it was the end of the season. Yeah. It was great.

And then the next day, he's calling Terry Silver and setting up season four. That's brilliant. How long does it take to prep those fights that we see in Cobra Kai? Is it like, I assume, months of work. It's not easy to do that. You can't sort of improv that kind of thing. It's a, it all depends on how complicated those fights that happened at the end of season four, those kids didn't get a lot of time with those fights. Yet when Billy and I

had our fight at the very beginning, if you remember, I think episode 10, season one when I appear, and then it continues to episode one, season two, when we have a fight and the fire starts and when we have that fight ourselves, we had time to go through all of season two, and we shot that fight, which is basically episode one, season. two, we shot it at the 10th episode at that time, three months later, because we were able to practice for all those three months. Even though that fight was airing as the first episode of season two, we were wanted to practice and get it right. And it was a great fight. Sometimes you don't have that luxury. These kids do a great job of fighting. They really do. They get sometimes

two and three days. Ralph and Billy in that fight that they had not very much time at all. It all depends on how rich the episode is, and the episode claims the actors. So the actors can't go and rehearse. They have to go and act. It switches around, you know. Does Hollywood try to pigeonhole you into a type of role, and then that's something you have to resist? Like, do you find yourself in, say, like, the early 90s or the mid-90s only getting roles to be like a villain or a heavy? And if so, how do you break out of that so that you don't end up typecast? It's hard. You know, Hollywood is a large group of, of sheep that basically base success on the previous success.

It's a lot of money at stake, and that's what they do. Your pigeonholed very easily because of the successful things when I did Rambo, and I did Rambo right after Carotica 1, and both those were $100 million grossers and even more, and then Carot Kid 2 is a big one, and then Carot Kid 3. So all of that, you're playing bad guy, and he's tough. and they think that's what you can do because you're just into commercial successes that are making money

and that's all you can do. So you've got to find another vehicle and sell it and it's tough because everybody says I've got some terrible stories. Times where I wanted something more vulnerable and I pulled a gun in an interview. I would never do it now because I'd be shot.

Well, yeah. But back in the 80s, you know, it was a movie that they wanted me to do this rapist in, Fiji, Finland, and New Zealand. And my wife was from New Zealand, so I thought, oh, it would be great to do this movie. And they thought I wasn't unpredictable enough. So I said, get me another interview with these people.

And I took a 357 magnum prop gun, put it in my portfolio. And I didn't know when I was going to pull it. But I wanted to show that I was unpredictable enough, and I could get the role that I really wanted. So this producer, my biggest fan says, we want you to play this role, this rapist. I didn't want to do it. He says, we want you to play this role just like you did in Karate Kid. And the little click happened here. I reached in, took out this 357, put it under his chin,

and I said, don't ever tell an actor how to play a role. Pulled the gun down, put it back in my case, left. At the door, I turned around to these guys, and I said, gentlemen, I hope we can do business. Ten minutes later, I got the call and I got the role I wanted. Try to do that now. You're going to prison. You're going to prison.

Exactly right. And they never made the movie anyway. And I was doing Cagney-Lacey, so it all worked out. But it was a great lesson at the time. Never made the movie anyway is like the motto of Hollywood. Maybe more than 80% of Hollywood projects never see daylight. Pretty much everything you do are audition for, that's it. You're never going to see or hear about it again, pretty much.

Well, no, it's not a standard. But there's a lot of projects that, Financing falls out. People in a leisure position who are independently financing change their mind. It all varies. You know, the studio system is always good. Film stars like the studio system because you know there's money there. And you know they know the business and they're not five dentists getting together a million dollars,

not knowing anything about the movie business. And they're wondering why Michelle Pfeiffer is in there. She's perfect. But why do you want Michelle Pfeiffer? Let's get a redhead. They haven't got a clue. A lot of times, deals fall through

because people are not part of the movie business. It's a complicated business. And now it's even more complicated with so many platforms. And thank God the Bond movie recreated the theater again. You know,

because that was the first movie that really made some money in the theaters. It'll never change. The TV world, seeing the guy that you bring into your living room, like Magnum or whoever,

as your friend on that small screen, will never take the place of that big screen, the mystique of Jack Nicholson, the mystique of Sean Connery, the mystique of Peter O'Toole. Those are big experiences. If you're lucky enough to get a movie, make some noise in the theaters,

you've done something right, you know? It's harder now. It's definitely harder. For sure, it's harder now. Yeah, I'm wondering if there was ever a time in the 80s or 90s that you thought, all right, the karate kid was a huge, hit. What if I don't get anything else that's this big ever again? Like that would scare me. I'd be in my head. I'm not from Brooklyn, but I have some of that Jewish anxiety. Like, oh, this is it. I've peaked.

There's no more for me. How do you handle that? Or did that not happen to you at all? I've always thought they don't hire me. It's their mistake. I've always felt that way. Sometimes the instrument was really attuned and I was good. And sometimes at an audition, I wasn't good. It just didn't connect with the words. I always felt that I had something when I was very young. I always felt that I had something different. I was a tough kid, but I was sensitive. I could cry at the drop of a hat always,

and yet I could be tackled at the age of 11 on concrete and still get up and play the next play. So I felt I always had something to offer the business, a tough guy who was that sensitive. I didn't see it in the movie, when I was growing up. I didn't see enough of the vulnerability and a lot of the heroes.

You know, and I figured, I have something to offer in a show business. I'm just going to go for it. And I discovered that, I guess, was about 10 or 12, and I just kept going. Tenacity was a big thing.

Laisiness prevailed to when you get lazy as a young actor. You don't want to do backstories and the things that later on you find make the difference in an A performance or a C performance. It's really a matter of believing in yourself. That's just what it is. And you go up and down. We go up and down. How many times do we hear,

oh, God, you know, I should have done something else with my life. Oh, my God, that I make the right decision. And you just go through it and you figure out the best point of those reservations and make it worth your while. And there were so many movies that I have not wanted to do. This one movie was so violent, VFW. VFW was Veterans of Foreign War. as a bar. And it was a violent picture. Who was in it? William Sadler, Stephen Lang, Fred Williamson, two or three other people that were just wonderful actress. All of us together made the camaraderie of guys who knew each other of Vietnam. And from a movie that was so bloody and violent, it turned out to be the rage was our camaraderie made the movie sensational.

I never saw that. Reading a script, I never saw that. that. I got talked into it by my manager and my son, but I didn't see all that camaraderie in the process. So a lot of times you'll take a piece, you're blind to the value of it. And then you're surprised when it all works out, as you think something is fantastic and it goes nowhere. So it's up and down, you know? Yeah, that applies to pretty much any career, right? Like, there's a lot of people that write into this show for advice and they'll say, should I take this job? It's what I really want to do, but it's a pay cut, and it's going to take me like three or four years to get back up to where I am now. I'm taking a big step back.

Should I do this? And the answer is usually yes, because then you're in the industry that you want and you can make up the money later, unless, of course, they're grossly underpaying you. And that's a different story. But a lot of times we do have to sort of get closer to what we want, and then later on we find out that it works out. Or we get exactly what we want, and then it turns out to be a complete and utter disaster. But to judge things in the beginning is almost a mistake.

Yeah. It's like a business investment. Yeah. You have to really do some homework. Homework has to be done. My son's going to do this wider project, a great script, written by the people that wrote tombstone. But they don't have enough money. And I want to help them.

But it's a big job to help raise more money for a great script because your son has the lead. It's a big deal. And I thought about it this morning. I didn't think I'd get involved. but I have to weigh how much work this project would take of mine when I really want to just kick back in Nashville. How much work would take for my son for me to make this picture, raise some more money for them,

give it to Netflix, whatever, and make it happen? I don't know. The opening stages are rough, but maybe in a couple of weeks when I re-examine this whole movie, it might be worthwhile. It's like an investment. You just have to cover all the things. the bases. This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Martin Cove. We'll be right back.

By the way, you can now rate the show if you're listening on Spotify. This is sort of new. It's a huge help. It makes the show more visible on Spotify. Just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash Spotify or search for us in your Spotify app. Click the dots on the right to make it happen. Now, for the rest of my conversation with Martin Cove. You mentioned earlier Karate Kid 1, Karate Kid 2, Karate Kid 3. I mean, I assume you know that there are four Karate Kid movies. So why does nobody talk about that one? What's going on? You think they milked it too long? Oh. Yeah, nobody talks about that. I'd never like to throw any movie under the bus. Sure. But it didn't work. The greatest proof was when Columbia came out with a four-disc set,

Karate Kid 1, 2, and 3 and 4. The next Karate Kid, I think it was called. And I got a dozen of these sets I gave the people. And then within them two months, all. All of them were pulled off the shelves at Blockbuster and all those stores at the time. Columbia reissued a three-buck set. So it's just the way the cookie crumbles, you know? I mean, the work is good. And, you know, she might guest star in Gobra Kai. Who knows?

So many great projects go by the wayside. Things like Cotton Club. Everybody thought it was a good movie. And, you know, there were so many bombs that happened. line them up with stars, you line them up with great writers, whether they're TV shows or movies. And so many of these movies tank. And you think Arthur Penn directed Jack Nicholson and Malin Brando in a Western. And you figured, oh, Jack Nicholson, Malin Brando, Arthur Penn. Arthur Penn directed Little Big Man, Bonnie and Clyde, did some great stuff. Tanked. Individually, the performances were great.

But nobody had anything to do with anybody else. You know, it was like, I've made movies where we all, it was one movie called, it was directed by Sidney Lomet. Sydney Lament is wonderful director. And we had Peter Weller, we had Joe Pendeliano, we had just a slew of people, Dennis Hopper. But everybody was rewriting their part all the time. And showing it to Sydney,

and he says, oh, that's great, I like it. You can improvise that. And everybody was in another movie. So when the picture came out, it was very strange. Didn't go anywhere. I think it was called Top of the World. It was a Vegas heist movie. Everybody was doing great work, but all their scenes had so little to do with anybody else.

Cobra Kai, I don't know if this is the right word. It's more intellectual, I guess, than karate kid. I use the term very loosely, right? Because the characters in Cobra Kai, they're all shades of gray. They're both good and bad versus just bad wearing a skeleton costume beating up the main character, right? John Crease has backstory. Johnny Lawrence is trying to do right, but he's just kind of a screw up who threw a lot of his life away.

Whereas in the karate kid, he's just a bully. There's no like, he's got a good side, right? He's just a jerk. John Crease in karate kid movies, he's 99% is just bad. There's not like any redeeming thing. You can't really relate to him at all if you're a normal person. But in Cobra Kai, it's totally different, right? You kind of have sympathy for it.

Well, he's a hard sensee because he was bullied and then he had his trauma in the war. Like, you know, it's just, a different kind of role that is more nuanced, probably because audiences are more sophisticated. So I guess the question is, is that a more fun role? Is that a more interesting role? Because it's more three-dimensional. Unquestionably, for those reasons, that it's more three-dimensional. I certainly met with them and said to the writers, I would like, as I said before, I would like texture and the character and colors. I don't want a one-dimensional tough guy. That was their

plan. I had three pages of notes for season two. that I wanted to exercise flashbacks, Vietnam, and all that, reasons why John Crease was like he was. They already had that. They already had it in their palette, in their mind, and they already painted the colors of John Crease. And I was amazed. All my notes, meeting with mercenaries, meeting with soldiers of fortune, meeting with Army Rangers, didn't mean a thing.

They were already there. They already put that down on paper for the next season. Yes, it is much more fun to play as an actor. And especially when you're coming from a hard-ass character like John Crease. You go to those texturized places with lots of colors. For me, it's heaven. You know, I was trying to be Steve McQueen when I got to this town. Everything was posturing like Steve McQueen.

And then I worked all the time because, you know, I was a tough guy and I had a good face and all. But I wasn't really touching what Martin Cove is about. I was trying to be Steve McQueen with the twinkle in my eye. You don't get to be Steve McQueen with a twinkle unless you do the work. You do the work, do the backstories, do the confrontations in your head with the characters, and you create what he's about. And that's what we loved about Steve McQueen.

The stuff behind his eyes, it's what I love about Anthony Hopkins, about Mal and Brando. You love that. So the more you can qualify it, even if you say it or you don't say it, you think it. and then it's really interesting to watch. Steve McQueen, for people who are maybe like in their 20s and have no idea as ultra-famous action star from the... You know, he did everything. He's more than that.

He started out in the blob, which was a horror movie, then the Magnificent Seven, then the Great Escape, and then he'd six and the single girl and all the stuff, and he ended up doing enemy of the people. And then he unfortunately passed away from cancer. But, you know, his son, Chad, was one of the Cobra Kai. I always told Chad the great... The greatest mistake I ever made, I was hired to play gentleman Jim Corbett, a fighter in Steve McQueen's last western, Tom Horn.

And I had a week's work with Steve McQueen. And the dumbest thing I ever did in my entire career, I went to New York to see my parents. And the day I got there, they made this offer. And I had to come back the next day. And I felt really badly that I would come see my parents for an afternoon and then go back to Hollywood and do it. a week on this movie, so I passed on it. Biggest mistake I ever made, declined working with a giant,

like my idol at the time. Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, they were just my idols at the time, and they did such good work, you know? The backstory and all the nuanced characters we've been talking about, correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost sounds like you don't think that John Crease is a villain,

but he's just maybe misunderstood. Yes, you're absolutely right. He's misunderstood. Whenever people say, I hate you. John Crease, you're such a villain. People walk up to me and say that. I say, no, he's just misunderstood. He's not a villain.

He's got a high moral fiber. It might not have been seen in the one-dimensional character we saw in the movies. But now, he's very taken by Peyton List's character, Tori. He's very much involved in her plight because he identifies with it.

And there are scenes that indicate that. More of them are coming up. But he's a complicated character. He's not Terry Silver. Terry Silver is pure evil. Terry Silver resents so much being indebted to me. And that's an interesting writer's thing. I never knew that until they wrote it,

until he says it to me at the end of season four. You know, you hate someone and resent them because they saved your life 30 years ago. That's sick. That's a real sickness, you know, and they dropped in another villain that is a real villain. He's not misunderstood. He's a real villain.

The writing is phenomenal, and I definitely encourage people to binge on some Cobra Kai if they're looking for a little nostalgia or just a good show. I mean, you don't even have to know anything about the karate kid. You can watch it with your 10-year-olds, and they won't care about the movies until you show them,

and they're blown away that everyone is so young and looks like the action figures that I have. You know, it's funny. I had all these Karate Kid action figures, and I lost all of them, and a few months ago I went back to clean out my mom's basement with her because she was like, get this crap out of my basement, reasonably. And I found one action figure, and it was you.

Ah. Yeah. The big one, the one from 84, the one? Yeah, it's pretty big, and if you, there's a switch on your back, and if you push it down, your front leg comes straight up. The leg comes up. Those legs would always break off those legs. It's very funny.

Yeah, I have a couple of those. That's the original. That was, might have been Rembeco toys. I went to the toy fair back then. It was 84, 85, and it was my first toy fair, and those were the dolls. Now there's so many. There are sets without Ralph or Billy, sets of Cobra Kai, full figures like that. Then there's several different figures of us individually.

And I have the four-year-old, so I give him everything. So now they have Ninja Turtles fighting John Crease. They have Ninja Turtles fighting Johnny Lawrence. They have Ninja Turtles fighting Ralph Machio. It's hysterical because my grandson loves Ninja Turtles. So here, the Ninja Turtles are fighting Grampy, you know? Yeah, it's a bit of a trip, I suppose. Yeah.

Do people constantly yell sweep the leg at you whenever you go to the mall? Pretty much. Not always, but I'll never forget the time I was going to a building and I was pressing the button and had a little screen so they could see who it is. and I pressed the button and they could see who was wanting to come in.

And the guy didn't acknowledge me. He just pressed the button and let me in and he said, mercy is for the week. It's all he said. You know? And it's happened before where some guy says

no mercy or sweep the leg. But you do cameos, you know? Oh, yeah. You do these cameos. I have had priests ask me to give a pep talk. Me. John Grease,

a pep talk to their country. congregation because he's having a silent auction to raise money for the church. And he wants me to tell them to participate in the silent auction. I've had six-year-olds, happy birthdays. I'm their favorite character. Six-year-old. It's like, you know. I like the guy who yells at everybody.

The mean guy who yells at everybody. Okay. But it makes you think that maybe these younger kids see that he's not that dark. Maybe there's something that inspired. them because it's a positive experience. How many bar mitzvah requests I get? I say mausel tough and I do my aftora, you know, the part you read, and I recite it. You know, it's like fun.

It's got to be rewarding. Look, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to the current season of Cobra Chi. I haven't started it yet. I got to binge the whole thing in a weekend. I haven't had time. Like I said, we just had a baby and I'll probably watch this while going in and out of a sleep

deprivation coma with like a diaper in one hand. but thank you so much for bringing back better times for a huge number of our generation. And good luck with your podcast that you're doing now as well. Yeah, Cobra Cove's. I think we air tomorrow on podcast one, Cobra Cove's with my son and daughter. And it's very exciting.

We're going to discuss mental health, bullying, movies, music. Very, very exciting. My son, Jesse, my daughter, Rachel. Yeah, it's great. I hope they're as articulate as you are, my friend. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger Show to sink your teeth into, here's a preview trailer of our interview with Professor Jonathan Haidt, discussing the dangers of free speech limitations here in America, especially on college campuses. So stay tuned for that after the close of the show.

There is a new economy of prestige, and in the new economy of prestige enabled by social media on college campuses, the more you call someone out for racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, transphobia, you get a point. Every time you do that, you get a point. So every time you do it, you get a point. So every time you, you accuse some, it doesn't matter if it's true. Doesn't matter if you destroy that, it doesn't matter. If you call someone out, you get a point. And so you have sub-communities in some universities that are playing this game with horrible external results for everyone else. But if the leadership stands up against it, they will be accused of all kinds of bigotry and sensitivity. So they almost never do. In a victimhood culture, you get prestige either by being a victim, so you emphasize how much you've been victimized, or by standing up for victims and attacking the oppressors. So when you get people in those movements who are, especially there are a lot of

white people in those movements, they tend to be doing that predictive protectiveness thing. You're on camera all the time. And even if you're not literally on camera, the current generation, because they were raised in the age of social media, they self-censor as though they were on camera. And so why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but you do not notice the log in your own? I mean, come on. You know, And here's Buddhists saying the same thing. It's easy to see the faults of others, but difficult to see one's own faults. And on campus, we're telling kids, forget thousands of years of wisdom, look at life through

the lens of oppression and domination and violence. Everything is against you. Right. Do the opposite. But you can't teach that book. It might trigger someone. What kind of world would you rather live in? One in which everyone is polite because they're afraid of offending, or one in which people will

sometimes say things that they think are true, even if they're offensive. For more with Professor Haidt, including how the concepts of safe spaces and trigger warnings are making our society less safe and less prepared for the real world, and what we should be doing instead to prepare ourselves and our kids for reality. Check out episode 90 right here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Definitely a fun conversation. When I got pitched this, I was like, should I do this? It's a little out of the wheelhouse, and I thought, yeah, the fans of the show are going to like it. The fans of Kobra Kai are going to like it. The karate kid fans are going to like it.

And, you know, I understand that might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really had fun with it. Martin Cove is really big into the anti-bullying movement, which is ironic because Sensei Crees, you know, he's a product of bullying and also his dojo essentially trains bullies. Also, Martin loves Westerns, and he can shoot and does no martial arts for real. So he's like an actual dangerous guy. He was also on Dancing with the Stars. A lot of you wanted me to ask about that. There's going to be some karate moves in that dance, I assume.

I will have to watch that on YouTube. But, spoiler. He was eliminated in the second week. First pair to get the boot, actually. Sounds like the judges showed no mercy. He's also got a really close relationship with his kids. He's doing a podcast on podcast one, which is my network. It's called the Cobra Cove right here on podcast one,

Cove with a K. I guess this guy's probably really big at Comic-Con. You'd imagine he probably can't go anywhere, but especially a place like Comic-Con. By the way, he does get spotted a lot. I know we talked about that during the show. There was a story he told off-air that I think is funny enough to share. Since he's been in so many movies,

he also gets spotted by not just fans, but other actors that he's worked with in those hundred plus movies that he's done. And one was called mercenary. And he did like a rape scene or something like that in the movie and he was a pretty awful guy. And then years later, he's seated at a cafe. And a woman stands up and says, Marty, do you remember me? You raped me years ago in San Diego.

And obviously the needle came off the record in the cafe and they had to kind of vocally clarify that it was in a movie, which sounds like that. like a great way to get canceled. I can only assume this was a while ago and nobody had their phone out. Also, a lot of folks asked him about the Tarantino movie. We didn't get there in the show, but he met Tarantino at an event, and Tarantino gave him his phone number. And for years, Martin was trying to reach Quentin Tarantino because he couldn't read his handwriting. So he's calling all these numbers, they're all the wrong number. Then he runs into him again, gets the wrong number again, which, you know, sounds like my dating life in college, but there's a part of me that's thinking,

and maybe Quentin Tarantino didn't really want to put him in a movie, but he ended up in one anyway, so good for him. That shows you what you get with persistence. Big thank you to Martin Cove. All links to his stuff will be on the website in the show notes. If you buy any books for many guests on the show, please use the website links. It does help support the show.

Transcripts of this one are in the show notes. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com slash YouTube. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on LinkedIn. Love connecting with you anywhere I can. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using systems, software, and tiny habits.

All for free are six-minute networking course. I won't charge you for it. It's at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you find out that you need them. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millio Campo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody's really in a karate kid, 80s nostalgia, cobra Kai, or just acting, maybe. Share this episode with them. Hopefully you find something great in every episode of the show. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

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