The Jordan Harbinger Show - 638: Yuriy Matsarsky | Fighting for Ukraine

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Yuriy Matsarsky is a Ukrainian journalist turned civilian fighter against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Since the incursion began, he's been keeping the world updated with events as they happen as the host of the daily podcast Fighting for Ukraine. What We Discuss with Yuriy Matsarsky: Why did Yuriy -- and so many of his civilian countrymen and women -- turn in the tools of their trades for assault rifles to defend their homeland against the professional army tasked with invading it? Why Yuriy considers these Russian invaders more heartless and brutal against civilians -- including women and children -- than even ISIS terrorists he's encountered in war zones. What Yuriy hopes Westerners come to understand about this conflict sooner rather than later that often gets missed by mainstream media. What day-to-day life and overall morale are like for Ukrainian defenders, and how Yuriy sees this conflict ultimately playing out. Short of picking up a rifle and heading to Kyiv, what can you do to help Yuriy and his fellow defenders keep resisting the advances of their uninvited neighbors? And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/638 Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss our interview with Read & Riot: A Pussy Riot Guide to Activism author Nadya Tolokonnikova? Catch up with episode 118: Pussy Riot’s Nadya Tolokonnikova | How to Read and Riot here! Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger show. Is there any point in negotiation with Putin? I said, you know, it's like for Jewish people during the 40s, previous century, to negotiate with Hitler. They don't have some kind of points. They will both accept it, Hitler and Jewish people. So we are in the same position. We want to live.

He wants us to die. That's all. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with scientists, entrepreneurs, spies, psychologists, even the occasional money laundering expert, former jihadi or tech mogul. Each episode turns our guest's wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker.

If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes organized by topic that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here. on the show. Topics like persuasion and influence, disinformation and cyber warfare, Vladimir Putin, abnormal psychology, China, North Korea, and more. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start, or take a look in your Spotify app to get started. When I tracked down today's guest, he said, things around me are changing really fast. I don't know where I'll be next week or whether I'll be alive at all, so it's better to talk as soon as possible. We also needed to do it during the day in Kiev because Yuri's video doesn't work at night, since if they use any lights, the Russians will

shell their position. So here we are at the crack of dawn on a Sunday doing the show here. Yuri is a soldier in Kiev, Ukraine, fighting in the conflict against the Russian military. It's clear from news reports that no one is safe in Ukraine right now. In this episode, we'll take a glimpse at the war effort, right at the ground, literally at the trench level, hear what Ukrainians in the streets of Kiev are thinking and saying, and see a snapshot of a soldier's daily life during this war, not knowing what's coming next, or whether they'll live to fight another day. I've been haunted by this interview since doing it. I hope you find it as interesting and informative as I did. And of course, all ad revenue from this episode will be

donated to help support the people of Ukraine. Here's Yuri. Well, we started planning this. We're doing this at like 7 a.m. on a Sunday because when I texted you asking to do the show, you told me you might not be alive to do this later. Is that really how you've done? Is that really how you feel these days? Yeah, and I think it's not only my feeling. You know, there is no safe place in Ukraine, because every inch of Ukraine soil, every town, every city and every village is vulnerable for Russian rockets, for a Russian artillery. Even today, one of the westernmost regions of Ukraine, the Leviv region was hit by a Russian

rocket. There are more than 30 deaths on a field where some kind of aid, which is coming from European countries, from Western countries, is collected and later send into central part of Ukraine or eastern part of Ukraine. So every inch of my homeland, every inch of Ukraine is vulnerable to Russian attacks. So nobody is safe here. Nobody is protected from Russian missiles or from Russian artillery barges. You started as a war journalist, right? You've seen war firsthand before. You've seen bad times.

But you thought you could probably just leave on a flight from Syria and come back home and the bad times would be over there. But now the bad times are in your own neighborhood. You know, when the war started, I was woke up by rockets which were intercepted by a Ukrainian anti-missile system right under the roof of the house. I lived. It was five o'clock in the morning. I think for all the Ukrainians, it was the most treacherous and the most cowardly war because, you know, they started to bomb in peaceful towns and cities, not the military bases. They started to bombing and shaling the civil districts. And the most victims of the war still is ordinary civilian people, not the militaries, not the officers or soldiers. So the war

started for me at 5 o'clock, as for any other Ukrainians, because it was started all over central and eastern Ukraine. It's not just one spontaneous attack on Kiev. No, it was a lot of rockets and a lot of bombs falling on a lot of buildings all over the central and eastern part of Ukraine. So the first day of the war was really, really hard for me because I decided that I need to go to my work and I need to make my radio show and I need to tell people what's going on. But for me, it was the hardest day of my life. But when I I finished my job and I went home when I was underground, even in subway, even in train. You can listen, you can hear the bombs and you can rockets, which is falling on your city.

So I decided that I must join territorial defense units, but I must join the army and to protect my homeland, to protect my loved one, to protect our nation and to protect our freedom. So when I came back home, I took my journalist helmet with a huge white letter, press on it. And I took my daughter's black marker and I painted all these white letters with black, so into the war helmet. Reinventing myself from a journalist to a soldier. Next day, I came to one of the headquarters of the territorial defense units, signed the contract, no salary. I have no any money from army, no salary, only foods and a shelter. So I signed this contract. I took a assault rifle and came to my platform. and for more than two weeks, I'm a soldier.

Wow, that's quite a transition. I think when they make the movie about you, they're going to have that scene with you painting your press helmet over with the black marker. That's quite a visual, man. In your territorial defense units, are there ranks, or is everyone just kind of grouped together? You know, our units, territorial defense units,

they are all meant by volunteers. So all the people around me and all the people in other territorial defense units, they were civilians. So if you want to, you still can wear civilian clothes or put on your civilian boots. Even in these conditions, we are a real

army already because we have assault guns. I have ammo in all my pockets, or almost in all my pockets. The guy who is in a position near me, he's a real young guy and he was a programmer or some kind of IT guy

and now he's in charge of granite launcher of RPG. So he had not only a assault rifle, he had also an RPG and a back full of grenades for RPG. We are not sitting on the barracks and waiting for Russians to come. No, we are working on checkpoints. We are patrolling the streets. We are sometimes we are going to shooting range to shoot on targets and to practice in some kind of military things. So it's real army, but you know, it's real army in evolution. Yeah, the airplane is being built on the way down from the sound of it.

Unbelievable. Did you essentially just wait in line to get a Kalashnikov one day? Was it like, okay, I'm joining the army. You said you signed a contract. Is it like you sign and then here's your stuff? Yeah, I just signed it. I've showed the guys from the headquarters

my Ukrainian ID. I've signed this contact. I wrote down my name, my address, my phone number, and in an hour or in an hour and a half, they gave me assault rifle and a few dozens ammo for a assault rifle, and the guy who instructed the people who never have any deals with guns in their lives, how to maintain it, how to load it, how to reload it, and how to use it. Wow. It was about maybe 15 minutes or half an hour. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Are you originally from Keith? Is this your hometown? No, I was born in high.

It's the second largest city of Ukraine. It is one of the cities which is suffering right now, most than other cities. It was a lot of rockets and artery barriages fell on my city and still falling on my city. My parents were in Kharkiv when the war started and they've been there for a week. Last days, last few days, without any electricity, without water, without heat, without food. Tens of thousands. of people in Ukraine in such their conditions. Without medicines, without water, without food, without electricity, we're hiding somewhere in the basement if they have time to get to the basement. So lucky for me and for my parents, they were managed to evacuate from Kharkiv after a few Grad Rockets get into the house,

which they lived in. Wow, so rockets hit your house. They actually hit your parents' house. Yeah, it's apartment. building, we have a flat in this building, and lucky for us, lucky for them. Grat rockets didn't sit this flat, but the rockets hit the building and almost completely destroyed two or four buildings close to my parents' flat. Wow, that's so terrifying. That's unbelievable. Did you expect this from Russia?

I mean, of course, when the military was building up around the border, it became obvious. But was it a surprise for people in Ukraine that Russia was trying to retake the country? I think a lot of people here we are preparing for it. Friends of mine, even my few of my relatives, they were preparing for things like this. They were making papers for buying guns and they are collecting ammo in their houses.

Some people making some food preparations, you know, buying can it meat or can it be? Some people tried to buy as much fuel and to storage it in some kind of garages and even in their flats waiting for Russians to come. But for a lot of people like this, it was completely surprised.

I can tell that myself, that I myself was not waiting for it, but it was complete surprise for me. But the scale of the attack and the brutality of the Russians were, what we are doing right now, we're targeting and still targeting in civilian districts

and schools and hospitals, that kind of brutality, it's surprising for me. Because, you know, I was telling to one of a journalist, I was working in Iraq during Masul offensive, when international community and local fighters were freedom, were liberating Mosul from ISIS. So I saw a lot of people fleeing, a lot of ordinary civilian people fleeing Mosul in its surroundings. Even guys from ISIS, even with terrorists, even with jihadists, they let people out of Mosul and out of suburb. of Mosul, but Russians, they are worse than ISIS.

They are not only used these people as shields trying to hide under this shield from Ukrainian fire, but they also, you know, they're sieging cities like Mariupil, starving people in the basement to death or just targeting them by artillery fire. Well, no, for sure, you can see, you can watch fresh videos from Maripol. For example, you can see with tanks and bombs from planes. they're targeting the buildings, the flats, the houses, not the military facilities, not Ukrainian tanks. For sure, we're targeting, first of all, the civilians. That's why I said much worse even than ISIS. That's unbelievable. I mean, that's really, really something else.

I didn't know that ISIS was letting people out of those cities as well. I guess I wasn't really focused on that, but it's just unbelievable that the Russians are focused on civilians deliberately. It just seems totally unnecessary to me. What do you wish the world, especially the West or Americans, understood about this conflict that maybe isn't getting through on mainstream media? Because there is a lot of coverage, but maybe there's some gaps that you see. I see, you know, it's totally misunderstanding that this war is not a war against Ukraine only. If you can take any history book about Second World War, when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, a lot of people in the Western world, including governments of great powers of that time,

it would be enough for Hitler to Czechoslovakia or Poland, for example. He will be, you know, satisfied with it. No, it will not. And of course, if you can defeat us, our world will be next. So it's time to stand together. It's time to stand for a freedom, for a democracy. This is a war against humanity in Western view. Putin's Russia, it's completely against all the rules of modern world, all the values of democratic world. So we don't us to exist. I mean,

Ukrainians, we really don't want us to exist. In Putin's minds, Ukrainians, you know, it's some kind of misguided Russian people who imaged themselves as a separate nation. No, it's not. We are separate nation. We don't want to be Russians. We want to have our homeland. We want to have our language,

our culture, and our freedom. And we don't want to be a part of this bloody Russian world. But also, he wants you to be much less freer than you are now. He wants you to accept him as one of the leading powers of the world. So this is not only our war.

It's the war of all three people against the people who hates freedom most. Yeah, it certainly does seem that way. And I know that there's a lot of debate over this, whether he'll stop at Ukraine or whether this is something that's just the beginning of something else. Although, to your people of Ukraine's credit, it doesn't seem to be going so well for him. I think he thought this would be a weekend adventure,

and now it looks like he's probably going to be looking for a way out that doesn't make him look weak. What do you think? You know, I think it's in the Russian tradition. Since the Second World War, nobody in Moscow, nobody in Russian government even tried to count how many casualties we have. So we just gave an order, we need to take Kharkiv,

or we need to take Kiev. So they will send wave after wave, not even, you know, looking how many died, during this offensive. And they have a lot of people, you know, and they have really, really a lot of people in Russia, which are ready to be sent, which are ready to kill Ukrainians, which are ready to target civilians. So, of course, we will fight them back. Of course, we will, as much as we can do, we will do it, you know. But I think it's time for West countries to do a little bit more when they have already done.

Yeah. What do you think of the response of the world community? It sounds like, obviously, lacking a little bit. What about these foreign fighters coming in? What do you think about things like that? Yeah, these guys are real heroes, you know, because these guys were the first people of the West, the East too, who are understood what is going on and can tell you that this is a war against humanity, that this is a war for democratic values, as I told them. So I really appreciate these people. I want to thank them all. As I know, these guys from Georgia, from United States, from Poland, and they are really brave persons, and they're really hitting hard,

the Russians close to Kiev, and they have a few trophies, including tanks, including air-maried cars, and so on. What's your opinion in the lack of a no-fly zone? You know, do you understand that Western countries are concerned that this could escalate things with Russia, or do you just think that's kind of a bullshit rationale that's going to get more people killed?

You know, it's a really complicated question. First of all, I can understand the fears of Western world. I can understand that Biden or Boris Johnson or any other leader of a free world really don't want to be involved in a third of the World War. But one thing we don't, you know, use in a way they cannot buy peace when they are not helping Ukraine with all the power they can. They don't buy peace. They just buy some time.

Sooner or later, they will face Russians in a battlefield in some way or another. So it's better. Early you join the fight, the early this fight will end and the less people will die during this fight. It's time for them to decide. It's time for them to take a real stand to join us in our fight against this bloody hoard. What do you in Ukraine need from American or foreign citizens that's immediately actionable and doesn't involve the government? What can people listening to this do to help? Is there anything? I really appreciate it for all people in Western World and the United States and Europe and Japan and any other countries for your help. We are receiving tons of aid from all over the world. For example, there are few trucks today came to Kiev with clothes, boots, gloves and so on, from Spain and Portugal. Really, I'm not joking.

I'm really appreciated for all these people because we don't have malls right now open. We don't have shops open. So this help is really, really big thing for us. Any kind of help, socks, jackets, boots, even, you know, some kind of can and piece or something like this. All of this help is really, really, really, really needed things. But help from the ordinary peoples, it's enough for us. I really appreciate all the folks who sends us money or who sends us clothes, food, and so on and so on. It's time not for ordinary people, you know, to intervene.

It's time for a statesman, for governments, for big military corporations to intervene in this conflict in this war. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Yuri, in Ukraine. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great folks for this show, authors, thinkers, creators every single week, it's because of my network and I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. The course is about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring others to develop a personal and professional relationship with you. It'll make you a better networker, a better connector, and a better thinker.

That's jordanharbinger.com slash course. By the way, most of the guests on the show, subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Now, back to Yuri in Ukraine. How is your peer group reacting? You know, was anybody around you that was maybe a guy your age not going to sign up for the military? Was anybody like, you know what, screw this, I'm out of here that you know of?

I have a few friends of mine who went at the first days of war, who went with their kids and with their wives to a western part of Ukraine. And they went to hide their wives and their kids from the rockets and from the artillery barges. But for the last week, we're trying to get back to Kiev and to join territorial defense forces because we don't want to join local territorial defense forces. somewhere in Lviv or Ivana-Frank, because they knows almost for sure that Putin will not send the ground troops there. And they want to fight Russian ground troops. They really want to demonstrate their readiness to defend their country, their fury of this Russian invasion. So we're trying to get back and to join our fight against Russians. So when you say you're fairly sure,

or they're fairly sure that Putin won't send ground troops to Western Ukraine, do you mean he'll attack it in other ways like by air, or do you not think he will attack Western Ukraine at all? He's already attacking Western Ukraine. That's what I thought, yeah. With rockets, with bombs and other stuff, but he will not send troops in Western Ukraine because, as I can understand it, of his views on history of Ukraine, because Western part of Ukraine was not a part of Russian Empire. It was a part of Austro-Hungarian Empire.

It was a part of a Habsburg Empire. So for him, the people who lives there, it's not Russians. He sees the people from eastern Ukraine and from the central Ukraine, as I told you, as is some kind of misguided Russians. But people of the Western Ukraine, for him, it's just like some kind of aliens, some kind of completely foreign for him. So that's why I'm thinking he's not going to send ground troops there. But I can make mistakes as any other person.

Yeah, I can imagine now it's a little bit confusing as to what might actually happen. I'm interested in, they say on the news they're giving every 18 to 60 year old a weapon in Ukraine. Like, are there 60-year-old men fighting on these lines next to 18-year-old kids? Is that really what it's like? Yeah. Wow. 18 years old, it's not a kid. No, not anymore.

In Ukraine, it's grown up, and if you want to go to army, you should wait until you are 18. Yeah. In my platoon, for example, there are few guys in their 50s or even in their late 50s. There are guys, not even guys, even girls, by 18 years, in the early 20s. Yeah, there are a lot of different people, different backgrounds, with different ethnicity. You know, for example, in our platoon, we have one of the most famous Ukrainian playwrights, who was a feta star before the war. He's a huge person in a feta world, not only in Ukraine, but in Eastern Europe also.

And we have also guys who were, you know, workers in some plants or in some... factories. We're serving together. We're sleeping in same conditions, eating the same food. All the borders now inside Ukraine now disappeared, completely disappeared. We are the one family. We are one unit right now. We are all doing the same work. We're all protecting our country, doing the best all of us can to do it. Yeah, it sort of sends chills up your spine thinking about the resilience. The sense of unity that we see. in the West on the news is really, it's something special. My family is Ukrainian, so take this as a compliment. Just how stubborn everybody over there really is, nobody's giving an inch to the Russians

is the feeling that we get. And it's, I think there's a common refrain in the United States that you wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a Ukrainian at any time. And it really is something that is inspiring to most of the world. I assume that Russia is the exception to this. I think probably they don't find it so inspiring, if they even know about it at all. What do you feel about these Russian soldiers that are conscripted? You know, in social media and on the internet, we see these really young guys that look like they were just plucked off of rural Siberia and put into Ukraine, and they're calling their parents on the phone and saying,

yeah, I got captured in Ukraine and the parents are like, what are you doing in Ukraine? They don't seem to know anything about this. Are you seeing any of these guys firsthand? Yeah, I saw a few videos like this, but you know, Our intelligence services, they also gave us another view on this problem. They intercept some talks of these people, relatives, they have friends in Russia, before these people get in the hands of Ukrainian militaries. They were calling to their moms, they were calling to their brides and telling them,

oh, I'm killing Ukrainians, and I will have a lot of money for killing Ukrainians, and I can steal something from their homes. I'm already found money or gold or something like this. And they have relatives, they moms, they pop, they brides, and so on. They tell them, oh, kill them as much as you can and bring as much as you can from Ukraine. They don't deserve to have anything. So I don't trust them when they're telling them, we don't know that we were sent to kill Ukrainians. Of course we knew.

Of course all of them. 100% knew that we were sent to Ukraine to kill, to destroy, to rape, and so on. I don't trust any word about, oh, we don't know. we were going to some kind of drills, and after that we found ourselves in Ukraine with live bullets, with real guns, or please forgive us. No shit, I can't believe you.

Yeah, that's interesting. That's not what we had seen over here, or at least nothing that I'd seen showed that they knew what they were doing, but that is interesting that they did. And it makes a little bit more sense than they just had no idea where they were. I mean, if you're on a battlefield,

I mean, and you've got a mobile phone, you probably want to figure out where you are. It's impossible. So we're coming to Ukraine. What are you doing here? You came with tanks, with rockets, with rifles, and you don't know what you came here as invaders and aggressors as the occupiers. It's impossible.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. There's a lot of photos from Ukrainians that show they'll be walking through the woods and they'll find like a rocket launcher vehicle or a mine-resistant vehicle or even a tank, just sitting there, nobody in it. Are your forces seeing a lot of abandoned equipment that ran out of gas or just doesn't work anymore? Yeah, there are a lot of trophy equipment, which was lived by Russian forces. First of all, it's because of, you know, of the work of our spatial forces. These guys are destroying the fuel cars, which are heading from Russia to fuel the tanks and all. Because, you know, without fuel, all these tanks, all these rocket launchers and so on, you know, it's just rusty pieces of metal. We're useless, completely useless. But also, there is a, uh, such a thing as the Ukrainian spring, it's really cold now in Ukraine. It's really cold. It's freezing temperatures. And a lot of these occupying troops, we don't have warm places to rest.

We don't have warm places to sleep. We don't have hot food. So we just leave their equipment, just leave their vehicles, weapons, and running away in somewhere that I think we can found some kind of heat, some kind of shelter, some kind of food, and something like that. Yeah, I've heard that a few of them. have gotten discovered in Poland just trying to blend in with everybody else. And then some Ukrainians will say, hey, this guy, he's Russian for sure, because I guess it's quite obvious, depending on the situation. And then they end up getting arrested. I've heard some folks say that they've been arresting Russians in Poland. Some were agents that are probably designed to look at refugees,

but some of them seemed like they probably were fighting and then decided, screw this, I'm going to Europe. I don't hear anything about these Russians who are trying to escape to Europe. But yeah, you're right. I can tell if this person is Russian or not. And almost anyone in Ukraine can tell if this person is Russian or not. We have some kind of words in our Ukrainian language, which cannot be pronounced by Russian at all. Even if you are going through Kiev at night, through checkpoints, almost on every checkpoint, guys who are guarding the city can ask you, please say, Palayanaity. And for Russian, it's almost impossible to pronounce this word.

What is it? Pellanita. Palanita. Palanita. That's hard. Yeah, yeah. You will be shoot at the checkpoint. Immediately.

Hopefully I don't have a Russian accent. Yeah, I'd have to say, excuse me, I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian. Yikes. What does it mean that word? It's some kind of bread which is bake it on special occasions. Okay, I'm going to have to look that up. I don't know why I'm going to put it. practice that, but I'm going to. Now, how do you feel about the Russians that aren't soldiers?

You know, the everyday Russians sitting at home, what do Ukrainians generally feel about them? Do you think they know what's going on, or do you think they're just brainwashed and under a media blackout because of Putin? There is no informational blackout in Russia. If you want to have information, guys, we are living in the 21st century, you can get any information you want. Of course, a lot of people in Russia, millions of people, maybe tens of millions of people, are really supporting this. war because for a long years, I think for 20 years, there was such a bloody propaganda in Russian medias about Ukrainians are not real people, we are just Russians who imagine

themselves as a separate nation, where language is funny, it's not real language, where religion, it's not real religion, it's just some kind of spoiled Russian religion, where history, it's not real history, it was invented by some kind of... Habsburg officers in Habsburg headquarters during First World War. I think it started even before the Soviet Union collapsed. Russian thought of themselves as much higher human buildings, much more quality human beings than Ukrainians. In their thoughts, in their thinking they should have back Kharkiv, Odessa, Kyiv and our Ukrainian cities, where propaganda told them and still tells them that these cities and this regions should belong to Russia only, because sometimes before

it was occupied by Russian Tsars, by Russian imperatives and so on. But nobody here in Ukraine really waits for Russian opposition from Russian some kind of prod. democracy forces to do anything. There is no such a thing like a real opposition. There are few people who are in a fury or in a fear or in a terror about what's going on in Ukraine. But I think most people in Russia, we are supporting the Russian invasion, Russian occupation, or they don't give a shit about it.

They're living with their only troubles and our interests. Do you have relatives or anything in Russia yourself? Yeah, for a long years I've been working and living in Russia. I've returned back to Ukraine right after the revolution eight years ago. Okay. I quit my job. I was a journalist in Russia. I quit my job and I left almost everything back in Moscow. I took only most necessary things with me. It was my laptop, my Gita and my daughter. And with these three things, I returned and came back to Ukraine and started in your life here in Kiev. If you've got friends or relatives in Russia, have you spoken to them since this conflict

started? Yeah, I have a few friends of mine and a few relatives of mine. And these people who are still in touch with me, with whom I have conversation sometimes, we're supporting Ukraine. Of course, we can't say it's loud. Of course, we can say it, you know, in the public. But where so little people left, because, you know, I have hundreds of people. in Russia when I walked there, when I lived there, in my circle, you know. But this circle during these

years, he became lesser and less and less and less. Now there are only few people because all other people, we came to, you know, to understand that, oh, of course, Ukraine should not be a different country. Of course, you should back to Russia. And so I don't want to talk to people with such your thoughts. Much easier to me to stop talking to them than trying to persuade them in my views, trying to defend my views for them. No, I'll just quit talking with them. I just blocked them on Facebook, on other social medias and deleted by phone numbers from my phone. Yeah, of course, especially since they're at home watching this on TV and you're practicing at the shooting range in hoping that you don't get killed in the middle of it. It's easy for those. In these states,

we would say armchair quarterback, right? They're just sitting in their chair yelling at the television and you're actually out there in the field. So it's a completely different situation for you than for them. And it would be infuriating to have to listen to that shit from people like them. What do you think the Russian objectives are? You know, what are they fighting for in your opinion?

As I told you, Putin and people all around him, they don't want us to exist, you know? They gave us a choice even before the invasion to declare ourselves Russians and to be a part of his rebuilding empire or to die. So we don't have choice to be Ukrainians, we don't have choice to be free,

we don't have choice to be independent while Putin is in charge of Russian affairs while he is in power. He gave us only two choices. To declare ourselves Russians and to be under his comments or to die. So that's why we are fighting against him. That's why we are civilian people

in tens of thousands taking guns in their arms to protect their homeland. Because we don't, as I told you, we don't want to lost our culture. We don't want to lost our independence. We don't want to lose our freedom. We don't want to lose our language. I want my country to be free. I want my country to be prosperous. I want my country to be independent from this bullshit in the head of Vladimir Putin. His views is already Nazi views. He don't want us to exist. You know, some guy or some girl from Western media who came here in Kiev a few days ago asked me, is there any point in negotiation with Putin? I said, you know, it's like for Jewish people during 40s, previous century, to negotiate with Hitler. They don't have some kind of points. They will both accept it,

Hitler and Jewish people. So we are in the same position. We don't have any points. We want to leave. He wants us to die. That's all. This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, in Ukraine. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. As a reminder, all the ad revenue from this episode will go to supporting the people of Ukraine. To learn more about our sponsors, all of the deals are on one page, Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support us so we can in turn support Ukraine. Now for the rest of my conversation with Yuri and Ukraine.

That brings us to the idea, what do you think Putin will do if he wins? You think he will exterminate everybody who's Ukrainian? You know, what is doing right now? Type Mariupal in Google to see what's going on in Mariupal in Google News. It's already genocide. He don't want Ukrainian to exist, you know, as a separate nation. He wants us to be a part of Russia. If we don't want to be a part of Russia, he wants to destroy our culture, to destroy our language, to destroy our religion. As I told you, we don't have a choice to be Ukrainians. In his mind, we have a choice. We have a choice to be a Russian or not to exist at all. Okay, so if he wins, that's the choice.

What do you think he will do if he loses? What do you think he'll do? I don't want to talk about it, but we will win or we will die out of the question. Why isn't the internet cut off in Kiev? Are Ukrainian troops keeping it running? Because, I mean, all jokes aside, I think your internet is better than mine and you're in a war zone and I'm in Silicon Valley, like, plugged into my wall. So why do you have better internet than me?

It's insane. We have a really nice internet and very cheap internet. I think it's one of the fastest and cheapest internet in the world. And our providers, our internet companies are doing the best they can to make people connect to each hour, to make people tied to each other in such a bad situation in Ukraine. And not only our people, not only our companies. Maybe as you knew already, Elon Musk sends a few. of his Starlink terminals to Ukraine.

And in some of Ukrainian cities in some of Ukrainian towns, you can already join, you can already use his Starlink satellite, internet, free of charge. So thanks to him also. Wow, yeah, it's a win-win, for sure. Are you preparing to fall back at some point

and lead guerrilla troops or fight on the front lines as long as possible? Because it seems like you do at some point have a choice between whether to stay, in the trenches, so to speak, or is that a decision that's not made by anyone around you? You know, we have a lot of trenches all around Kiev. We have a lot of trenches inside Kiev,

so we are ready for a trench war. But at the same time, almost every house, almost every flat in Kiev, it's some kind of little fortress. Because almost all the people which is still in Kiev were army in some way or another. A lot of people have their guns, So if Russian will come, we have a gunfire from every second window.

If you don't have, for some reasons, rifle or if you don't have assault rifle or something, people preparing Molotov cocktails. I think millions of battles of Molotov cocktails in Ukraine ready to be used on Russian tanks and Russian troops. So we are preparing for battle in trenches. We are preparing for protecting Kiev and not letting. with bastards to get into our capital, but we are also preparing for a guerrilla war inside our cities, even inside Kiev.

The world has, of course, been watching Ukraine and your president Zelensky. You know, he's quite active in the media. Are you glad that he's staying in Ukraine? Does that matter for morale? Yeah, you know, he's not my hero. He's not the person I voted for, you know, last elections. But now I think he's doing the best he can.

I think he's a real inspiration for a lot of people, not only inside Ukraine, but even outside Ukraine. He's, I think a lot of people can agree with me. He's a brave guy, and he's doing the best he can, even better than best. Yeah, it is a little bit funny. I'm imagining him, you know, making the rounds, increasing soldier morale and shaking hands, and you tell him, hey, I voted for the other guy, but thanks for coming. Yeah, yeah.

It's normal in Ukraine. In Ukraine, it's normal. It's completely normal. What is morale like? You know, we've seen a lot of what us internet dorks might call shit posting from Zelensky, from the government. Are there jokes that are making the rounds? Are you guys doing some sort of dark comedy or anything like that, like we often see during hard times? You know, moral are really high in Kiev and I think in other cities and other towns of Ukraine, too.

As I told you, we don't want to lose this war, and we are not preparing for a losing. We are preparing only for a winning. That's why, you know, they can take us alive. So we will make all the Ukraine one huge graveyard for them. So that's why we are, you know, we are in some kind of high morale. We're not going to lose. We are not going to lose anyway. Are there songs or movies or anything that people are talking about and referencing right now?

A friend of mine who lived in Serbia during Slobodan Milosevic, he said that the resistance groups, they were all quoting Lord of the Rings movies because they felt like they were standing up to the Dark Lord. and they really ran with that for a long period of time. People of my platoon yesterday or day before yesterday watched in the night the movie Downfall. Maybe you know this movie. It's a German movie about last days of Hitler in his bunker in Berlin. So they were watching this movie.

Imagine that they are watching a movie, not about Hitler, but about Putin. So, yeah, I think that's an answer for your question. Yeah, definitely. How is the food out there? at the front, because we see these stories of Russian soldiers getting like seven-year-old meals in a bag that have been spoiled for five of the seven years. What are you eating? Oh, we have so much food from best restaurants, from best shops, volunteers, and the military ministry gave a lot of money to buy this food. In our platoon, the guy came on a second day,

on a third day of the war who said, you know, I'm a chef in one of a luxury restaurants. The restaurant now is closed, so I want to be useful. Please let me join you. I will prepare food for you. And I've never eaten so much different and tasty food in my life like I'm eating in army. Right now, I gave him five Michelin stars from the beginning, you know. And all the other guys and our Platoon also made a save.

That's funny. You will probably never hear anyone say I've never had so much delicious. food like I've had here in the army. I don't think anyone's ever said that before. Yeah, yeah. But you know, this is our reality. This is our reality. And when I'm talking to guys from other platoons, this is the same. I talked to a guy who is in charge in a platoon in a small town in central Ukraine. And he said, or we have some kind of guys from local superb restaurant and they're twice a day coming to us and delivered to us. The hot food, the hot dishes from, you know, right from the oven.

And then he said also that he's eating the best food in his life. For some reason that strikes me as funny, and I don't mean to laugh at your situation, of course. It's just, it's amazing to me that everyone's coming together, but it's also just somehow funny that this luxury, this amazing chef, is able to make large quantities of food that are also still good. I don't know, there's just something kind of humorous

about this guy whipping up eggs Florentine omelets in the middle of a battlefield. Inspiring is a word that I keep using, and I hate overusing that word, but it really is something like that. One day this is going to be in a history book. What should that book say? Because you may not realize this in the moment, but you're essentially, men and women like you,

are the fathers and mothers of a new Ukraine, you know, a new Ukraine fighting another war of independence. And is that something you think about? Do you think about being remembered in that way? No, no, but I can't watch the fortress and videos from my beloved city of Kharkiv without tears. For only two weeks, Russian destroyed more houses inside Kharkiv than Nazis destroyed during the whole Second World War, worse than Nazis. We're doing the ugliest things you can imagine.

They're doing the cowardest things you can imagine. It's impossible to describe what are we doing right now in Ukraine with our people, with our civilians, with our women, with our kids. It's just such of brutality, unimaginable brutality. What does it mean to be Ukrainian now? Do you think your national identity has changed? Do you identify as European, uniquely Ukrainian, something else? Of course, we are Europeans. Of course, our future is with European values, with European freedom, with European liberties. Of course, we are Europeans. First of all, we are the people who already choose the freedom as one of our main parts of identity. This part of identity makes us Europeans. But at the same time, we are Ukrainians. These parts of our identity is not, you know, in conflict with each other.

You can be Polish and European. You can be Spanish and European. Why shouldn't we be Ukrainian and Europeans at the same time? It's not a problem. It's normal. Yeah, I'm asking because, you know, Russia clearly is trying to impose what their vision of Ukraine is on you by force. And I'm curious, you know, do you feel like the West is also imposing our vision on you?

Like, hey, this is what Ukraine is. They're neutral or they're closer to the East. No, no, no, this is our choice. Its choice wasn't made under the pressure from the United States or from Germany or from Great Britain. No, it's our choice and it's our decision to be a part of European or the Western civilization. As the season changes, you mentioned earlier, it's cold. Yeah, it's really cold. It's really cold right now.

What will change in the nature of this war as it warms up? You know, we were saying before, oh, Putin, if he's going to go in there, his tanks are going to get stuck in the mud. Well, it's still cold, but it's not going to be cold for long. You know, I lived in Ukraine for several months, 20 years ago, and it gets just as warm as any other place in the spring and in the summer. At least I grew up in Michigan. So it gets at least as warm as Michigan.

That's going to change everything. You're going to have a completely different environment. What will that do to the battle? Yeah, and with tanks and where drugs. and all our equipment will stuck in the mats, and our guys with the javelins and lows and RPGs will burn their trucks and their tanks and their all hour of the equipment.

So you will see it, I think, in a few days or maximum in a few weeks. What do you think of this Azov Battalion where it's like they're actually, you know, very much looking like Nazis and they've got their swastikas and their SS helmets and tattoos? You know, Putin says,

oh, I'm stopping these guys. what do Ukrainians think of these guys? Because obviously you're not all Azav Battalion guys. First of all, battalion, it's not a huge division. Battalion, it's only a few dozens of people. But I can tell you that one of my closest friend

and my colleagues, he's not only Ukrainian, but he's also an Israeli citizen. So he's a Jew, a Jewish guy. And he was one of instructors. He spent a lot of time in Israeli army. He spent a lot of time as an officer in Israeli army, and now he's preparing Ukrainians for fighting against Russians. And he is also preparing guys from Azov Battalion.

It has no bad experience working with them. So I think all this stuff, all this assess stuff and all other things, for me, maybe I'm wrong, but for me, it's just some kind of pose, you know, just like in the United States, some biker gangs use also such as symbolic for something, you know, to do something to demonstrate something that we are not, you know, just like ours. Maybe a Zavatarian is the same thing as some kind of health angels or something like that. Got it. There are refugees fleeing many places with oppression and war, like places in the Middle East, but they've not really sparked such outrage or desire to help from the rest of the world as what is happening is in Ukraine.

So I've heard from Palestinian friends and Syrians like, hey, what the hell? You know, this is happening to us. where was all this goodwill, there's a lot more sympathy, seemingly, for Ukraine. What do you make of Americans or Westerners being more sympathetic to your cause and maybe less so to others? For me, only one explanation in this. It's about all these wars in Middle East and Central Asia and Africa are really far away from the Western countries.

But now, you know, the closest rocket was less than 25 kilometers from the border of European Union. So this war is waging at the gates of NATO and at the gates of the European Union. That's why Europeans and people of the West are most sympathetic to Ukrainian cause than to any other cause. And I'm so sorry, Jordan, I need to go as you can. Maybe you can listen, but my radio station is calling me to join my plateau. No problem. I can't hear that, but that's no problem. I will let you go. I'm going to said put links to your podcast and everything in the show notes here. Thank you. Please stay safe. I hope to speak to you again soon. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. See you. Bye. Bye. Bye. You know, I've got some thoughts on this episode. But before I get into that,

here's what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger show. A lot of people hear the name Pussy Riot and they think, all right, what is this? You're just trying to get shock value. Can you tell us the beginning a little bit of what Pussy Riot is? When I was reading in the book and you said you just made up for a lecture, I was like, there's got to be more to it than that. No, seriously. Not really. No, seriously. They decided to punish us.

They opened a criminal case, and in two weeks after the performance, we were arrested. We knew how to hide from the cops, and for a week, dozens of cops were looking for us. And when they caught us, finally, they were so happy. Making them look like fools. It's our profession. How does it feel to have these world leaders who are in these private chambers with their T and their bodyguards and you're sitting in a Russian prison and they're like, these 22 year old women, they're screwing my world up, man.

Gotta do something about this. Look at how bad they are. I was really happy that Putin is in troubles because of us because they definitely didn't expect anything like that. My mother thinks that I need to immigrate around immediately. Yeah, you still live in Russia. I can't even believe. Yeah.

You wrote, the future has never seemed so full of enrich and wonderful possibilities as when I was in a labor camp and literally had nothing but dreams. What gives you the strength to go forward when you're worried about, are they going to try to blind me? Are they going to try to beat me up? I mean, they were highly abusive to you while you were behind bars. I just prefer not to think about it. For more from Pussy Riot and world-renowned artist Nadia Tolokonikova and her time in Russian prison, and of course their crusade against Vladimir Putin's regime, check out episode 118 on the Jordan Harbinger Show.

Links to all things Yuri will be in the last. the show notes. He has his own podcast called Fighting for Ukraine. We'll of course link it in the show notes. I'd love to do more with Yuri here since he's really in the middle of a historic conflict, and I find myself quite invested in his story. Again, links to all things Yuri in the show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes, advertisers, deals, discount codes, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals, and all proceeds from this episode go to support the people of Ukraine. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or just hit me on LinkedIn. I'm teaching you how to connect with amazing people using the same software systems and tiny habits that I use every

single day. It's our six-minute networking course, and the course is free. There's no upsells, no nonsense. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig that well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them. Many of the guests on the show actually subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created an association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Millio Campo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's following this war and would be interested in Yuri's perspective, please share this episode with them. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show

so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast? If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go, wait, what, that actually happened? You got to subscribe to What Was That Like? It's real people telling the most surreal moments of their lives, and they're not just giving you the highlights.

They're walking you through it from the inside as a person who actually lived it, which means you're basically getting a front row seat to the chaos. One episode is about Scott getting locked up in a foreign jail for a crime he didn't commit. Sure, Scott. Another is Sue's parachute failing. Wow, I'm surprised she was around to tell that story. And then there's Michael who was stabbed on a bus, which makes your commute instantly feel a little bit more relaxing.

Do what you think? So if you want to hear some wild and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out what was that like. Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now.

This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know Podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard. so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter

in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way.

Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. smart ideas you can actually use in real life something you should know has been featured in apple's

shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting so if you want another show that scratches that i want to understand how people in the world really work itch search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening you can thank me later