The Jordan Harbinger Show - 672: Toothpaste | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: May 22, 2022

Two or three times a day, every day, for most of your life, you use toothpaste. But what’s in it? Is it actually good for you? And why is there a scary label on the back warning you not to swallow it? If you want to know the answers to these questions and more about toothpaste, nine out of 10 dentists (might very well) recommend this episode! Welcome to Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show where Jordan and fact-checker, comedian, and podcast host David C. Smalley break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up, and debunk common misconceptions. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/672 On This Week's Skeptical Sunday, We Discuss: If toothpaste is supposedly safe enough to put in your mouth three times a day, why is there a warning to call your local poison control center if you happen to swallow it? Fluoride can strengthen teeth and reduce the risk of cavities, but too much exposure can cause problems from bone disease to certain cancers. So why is it in most toothpaste and 70% of our drinking water, and how is it regulated? What sneaky loophole allows toothpaste manufacturers to bypass the legal disclosure of certain ingredients in their products that might cause us to think twice about using them? What are some of these rarely listed ingredients, and what are the hazards of using them? How can we keep our teeth and gums clean and healthy without exposing ourselves to potential toxins? Connect with Jordan on Twitter, on Instagram, and on YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know! Connect with David at his website, on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, and on YouTube, and make sure to check out The David C. Smalley Podcast here or wherever you enjoy listening to fine podcasts! If you like to get out of your house and catch live comedy, keep an eye on David's tour dates here and text David directly at [phone] for tickets when he comes to your town! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger, and this is Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of the Jordan Harbinger show where fact checker and comedian David C. Smalley and I break down a topic you may have never even thought about. We open things up and debunk common misconceptions, why the Olympics are a little bit of a sham, why expiration dates are nonsense, why tipping makes absolutely no sense, and lots more.

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to help new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on this show. Topics like negotiation and communication, China, North Korea, activism and resistance, scams and conspiracy debunks, crime and cults, and more. Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or take a look in your Spotify app to get started. On this edition of Skeptical Sunday, toothpaste, two or three times every day for most of your life, you use toothpaste, but what is in it? Is it actually good for you? And why is there a scary label on the back warning you not to swallow it? I mean, I'm supposed to put it in my mouth, right? Comedian and fact checker, David C. Smalley is here.

David, what is going on with our toothpaste? Because I frankly blindly trust the stuff and have for decades. As do most of us, I think, you know those weirdos who only use some sort of like gross, organic, vegan toothpaste made out of like bamboo oil and tastes like sadness? Yes, yeah, the ones where you use it and then you're like, okay, I want to brush my teeth with real toothpaste now to make them feel clean. Right. You got to brush your teeth after. Yeah. So I think we're going to make a few more of those weirdos today, maybe.

Here's what everybody needs to do. Everyone, you know, unless you're in traffic, grab your toothpaste. Let's follow along on this one because I promise you there's probably a warning label on the back. And the warning label is going to say something along the lines of if swallowed or if accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a poison control center right away. Now, why would that be the case for something literally designed to go in your mouth a few times a day? Yeah, I'm assuming it's the fluoride, but who knows what else is in there. Right? Oh yeah. We're going to get into that. But you're exactly. Exactly right. According to the American Dental Association, fluoride can strengthen teeth and

reduce the risk of cavities, which is why it's in toothpaste. And it's also why over 70% of tap water in the United States contains fluoride. Okay. So if it's dangerous to swallow, there's probably only trace amounts in the tap water. You would hope so, but who knows? I'm guessing that's the case, everywhere except like Florida, which would explain all the news. But I think the National Institute of Health says that the elevated amounts of fluoride leads to a bone disease. is called skeletal fluorosis. It can also lead to white spots on the teeth, pitted enamel, tooth decay, and it's associated with certain cancers. It can harm children whose teeth are still developing, and it can even suppress your immune system. The National Library of Medicine did a study on fluoride in

pregnancy with 600 patients and found that excess fluoride exposure can cause adverse pregnancy outcomes and negative health effects on both the mother and the fetus. So we, we, we, we, we, do need to pay attention to our fluoride intake. It's a little ironic that fluoride can cause all these problems with your teeth and bones. Like that whole reason is I guess we want that positive effect, but too much leads to a negative effect. White spots on your teeth is funny, right? Because I'm trying to whiten all of the tooth, actually. Thank you. I'll take a white spot, preferably that covers the whole tooth. So how much fluoride are we talking about that's bad for you? Is it like a megadose? That's why the warning is there. I mean, you definitely really, in real life,

Do not want to swallow your toothpaste. The limit deemed safe by apparently random standards is one milligram per liter in your tap water. But your toothpaste has a concentration that's about 1,000 times that safe limit. So every time you're brushing, you should feel like one of those fire breathers who take fuel in their mouths. You're sloshing death around in there. Okay. So why do you say random standards? I mean, I assume it's like this is FDA or some regulation on fluoride amounts that we ingest.

Yeah, you'd think so, Jordan. And with something on the books called the 1974 Safe Drinking Water Act, it sounds like they took care of that, right? That act technically gave regulatory oversight of public drinking water to the EPA. But the FDA's very own website says, and I'm quoting, the decision to fluoridate a water supply is made by state or local municipalities and is not mandated or regulated by the EPA or any other federal entity. So in the Act, the Clean Water Act, they say the federal. government is responsible for the safety of drinking water, but then they're like, okay, state and local governments, just add as much fluoride as you want without any oversight whatsoever. Bingo.

Yeah. But let's be clear. I can come on and destroy drinking water for people on another Skeptical Sunday episode in the future. Just know that you're rinsing that fluoride out of your mouth with more fluoride. Okay. So I doubt we're doing an entire episode on toothpaste if the takeaway is, hey, don't swallow it. Like, okay, it says that on the package. What else is going on? Yeah. The biggest This issue is mysterious ingredients. If you're still holding your toothpaste at home like I am, and I'm not going to share the brand name because, well, you're a lawyer. You get it. Mine says active ingredient, stannis fluoride.

Under other information right next to that, it says products containing stannis fluoride may produce surface staining of the teeth. First of all, stonis fluoride sounds like a character from Game of Thrones, but we're brushing our teeth with products that can cause tooth stains. that makes absolutely no sense at all. Yeah, and levels of fluoride deemed toxic if swallowed. And that's all they tell us about it. It's like some sort of medical ointment. Like no other ingredients are typically listed on toothpaste. It just says active ingredient like it would on some sort of topical ointment.

It doesn't tell you all the ingredients. I don't get, okay, so we're putting these things in our mouths every single day twice if you're actually taking care of your hygiene. How do they get away with not listing the ingredients? What the hell? Yeah, it took me a bit to find out why they were able to do this. But almost all manufacturers add things to their toothpaste, like whitening or brighten or brighten your smile or something having to do with the way you look so that it'll be listed as a cosmetic

product. And once it's listed as cosmetic, they don't have to disclose ingredients. And if they pretend to be medical or ingestible in some way, then they'd have to show the ingredients. But as long as it's considered cosmetic, they only have to show the active ingredient. Yeah, that's kind of terrifying. So it's not even about actual tooth health. It's about looking good. And that's kind of their technicality, their little loophole where they're like, we can put anything in here because it's not a food or a drug. It's just a cosmetic. Yep, exactly. And I went to a major toothpaste brand website to see if they at least listed ingredients online. And to my surprise, there was an actual link at the bottom called Ingredients. And I was like, oh, cool. I was hopeful for about 10 seconds until I clicked it.

Did it just send you a video of like, Rick Astley, like, never going to give you up, never going to Let you down. It might as well have. I mean, it takes you to a page that shows common toothpaste ingredients. Like in general. In general. Just here's what people happen to put in. And then it goes, let's find the right product for you.

And they go around making you answer questions and click things, completely distracting from whatever's in there. And according to federal law, they don't have to tell us what's in the toothpaste. That's kind of mafia. Like, oh, be careful. You wouldn't want somebody to slip and fall and get hurt. There could be an accident. You've got to have some safety around here.

Why don't you hire my guys? Yeah, now come over here. Let's see what we can do for you. Yeah, that's right. That's what it sounds like, but for tooth-based ingredients. Right. So, okay, so I assume you got to the bottom of this in some way. Yep, I sure did.

So I found a bunch of different ingredients, and I'm going to kind of break some of them down and talk about kind of the dangers and some things that sound dangerous and aren't. But the first ingredient I found that was really alarming is called triclosan. In 2016, the FDA banned triclosan from being in soaps because exposure to high doses has been linked health issues like bacteria resistance and hormone issues and gut health disruption, but it's allowed in toothpaste. Oh, man. And in one study, Triclosan even stayed in the bristles of toothbrushes for about two weeks

after consumers switched to a non-traclosan toothpaste. The FDA, as of right now, has not yet officially banned it from toothpaste. But here's the kicker. On the FDA website, they say consumers should strongly consider of avoiding using toothpaste that use triclosan. Yet they won't force manufacturers to list their ingredients. So actually, hey, don't use this thing. How do I know if it's in there? Well, you won't because they won't list the ingredients. So now most brands, I assume, are going to say they don't use it, but we really don't know.

We really don't know. I mean, some are making promises. So in 2017, Time Magazine did a report on a study that was showing how dangerous triclosan really is. And at that time, Colgate was rumored to use triclosan in its toothpaste. So Time wrote to Colgate. and they asked them about the use of triclosan, and Colgate responded and Time posted the actual written response in the Time magazine article, which is still available online if people want to go read it. Here's the quote from Colgate responding to Time magazine in 2017. They say, quote, Colgate total toothpaste is uniquely formulated with 0.3% of the antibacterial ingredient triclosan to fight harmful plaque germs that can cause gengivitis, and it is approved as effective and safe by the US FDA. Regarding this study, the author state that they do not consider oral exposure

to triclosan toothpaste to be a health risk. And their study shows that triclosin that might be released from a toothbrush head is a fraction of the standard dose coming from a single use of triclosan containing toothpaste and far less than the three milligrams established as safe. So they do admit to putting it in there. Right. So it's like, we're poisoning you, but it's not that much poison. So calm down. Right. And then, The thing is, they acted in 2017 like it was no big deal. Two years later, 2019, Colgate then promised to stop using triclosan. And they do not list their ingredients at all on their website.

They don't even say, here's what you generally in toothpaste. But funny enough, Crest, their biggest competitor, has a huge notice on their website touting triclosan-free toothpaste, which I find hilarious. Right. So it's like, hey, by the way, the other guys, they're trying to kill you. But we have given off that pursuit, and we now have another chemical in there that we're going to tell you what it is, though. Right. That's not the only harmful thing about toothpaste. There's a lot more pages left in our notes here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I already addressed the sodium fluoride. It has its own issues, but it's pretty much a staple of most mainstream toothpaste, and a lot of dentists recommend using fluoride-based toothpaste. But there's another ingredient called sodium laurel sulfate. It's sometimes known as SLS. And it's just a foaming agent that almost every brand of toothpaste uses, but it doesn't actually do anything to help clean your teeth. It just feels all foaming. in there, and you associate that with clean. And many brands market that product as natural because

it's made from a base of coconut oil. But there are more and more studies that show it can easily be contaminated and become toxic during the manufacturing process. So it's not really worth the risk, and it's not necessary. It doesn't really do anything except sort of trick your mind into feeling clean because of foam bubbles. You know, this is interesting because that is one of my major gripes with the all-natural toothpaste. I'm like, it doesn't feel clean because there's no foam, right? And So it's something we expect to be in toothpaste because it's always been there, but it doesn't really help us. And yeah, it's a little off-putting if I'm brushing my teeth and there's just no foam, but there's a little bit of flavory oil. And now I'm like, okay, that's why I want to brush my teeth again.

Right. Yeah. And I'd feel the same way. And I totally get it. It would seem strange, except to those weirdos who've been ahead of the curve all these years using that non-foaming, vegan, organic, sad tasting, cleansing jail. But we'd have to get used to it if we want to make these changes in our lives. So another thing that it causes that sort of smooth, clean feel is something called polyethylene glycol, which is a synthetic polymer that's used to preserve moisture. And it's like a thickening agent that helps toothpaste from like running off your toothbrush. If you notice, the natural ones tend to be thinner and kind of dripping around. And the major brands are like a solid, thick clump on the toothbrush. It's mostly because of polyethylene glycol. But that ingredient is also a primary ingredient in anaphrase.

Okay, that sounds disgusting, but also I want to be, as a skeptic, there's also water in things that can kill you, or there's, you know, there's a lot of things that are ingredients and other things where it's like, you know that this, what was that thing when we were kids? Like, margarine is one ingredient away from plastic? And it's like, well, that's not surprising, but also one is plastic and one is margarine because one has that extra ingredient and one doesn't. Right, yeah, it's important to note that it's also important to think about the amounts, because when people start talking about the older vaccines with aluminum, or they talk about aluminum when they're talking about chemtrails or whatever. You can buy it into most

vegetables and have some trace elements of aluminum in those vegetables. So it sounds dangerous. It sounds poisonous. It's naturally occurring. This stuff could be that way, but it's also linked to endocrine disruption, which is what happens when a chemical mimics like a natural hormone and causes your body to overreact to a stimulus. Right. So it is alarming. It depends on the amounts. We've been doing it for years. I get it. But it's when we're talking about the ingredients, we've got to be truthful about what these things are and what they're doing. There are also, this was the thing that's made me bring up this topic. And I was like, Jordan,

I want to cover toothpaste because of how much sweetener is in toothpaste. And they don't use sugar. I think they used to. They don't use sugar anymore. They use saccharin in most toothpaste. Brushing your teeth with sugar is so ridiculous. That notion is so ridiculous. Yeah, I know. I know. But it's, it's, saccharine is deemed safe. It's super sweet and it doesn't give cavities, which makes me wonder why we're not just making candy out of saccharide. For sure, there's some derivative that goes in can. Maybe it just tastes disgusting on its own. Yeah, maybe so. But that, you know, that, again, that's another skeptical Sundays episode.

You know, I would love to talk about things like, you know, all the banned foods and all the crazy things that we shove into our bodies. But toothpaste also contains things like gluten and alcohol and silica for polishing. Silica is the thing on those packages that are like moisture suckers and it says do not eat in giant letters on it, isn't that? Silica. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why. you're not supposed to swallow. It's another reason. Like basically everything in toothpaste is not supposed to be swallowed. It's, yeah, it's kind of crazy.

The last ingredient is glycerin. It's supposed to help keep your toothpaste from drying out, which is kind of what the polyethylene glycol does as a thickening agent as well. But the problem with glycerin is that it leaves a coating on your teeth. So when you feel smooth after brushing, it's not necessarily that you got rid of all the plaque. It could be this glycerin coating that it, is over your teeth. And there's this Dr. Gerard Judd who said, when you brush with things like that, it takes 27 washes to get glycerin off your teeth. He also states that teeth brushed with any

toothpaste at all are coated with a film and cannot properly remineralize. And not only does glycerin inhibit the natural process of remineralization, but it's also a magnet for plaque. Come on. So even if someone's diet is relatively healthy, the problem with glycerin-based toothpaste is that they create conditions for accelerated tooth decay. Now, again, as a skeptic, I have to note that this information comes from a doctor who's working closely with this tooth powder website, claiming that the original tooth powder that they sell, of course, is the only healthy way to brush your teeth. Tooth powder was the predecessor of toothpaste. We were, that's kind of what everybody used before the whole paste thing came into existence. And this company is saying, we need to go back

to that. It's healthier. It's fewer ingredients, it's more natural. It's going to taste like garbage, but they're advocating for tooth powder as opposed to toothpaste for these reasons. You know what's actually fit for human consumption, at least in larger doses than toothpaste? The products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting this show. It's your support of these advertisers and deals that keeps the lights on around here. We put them all in one page, Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And you can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website, it'll bring up the code of the special URL that you need to use to support the show.

And please consider supporting those who support us. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. I mean, now that I know everything else can kill you, I want to know it's in the tooth powder, they'll tell me. But I just think the cruel irony is that those commercials where people lick their teeth after they're done brushing their teeth and like, oh, they're so smooth and shiny. It's like, yeah, there's literally glycerin over it, which is going to accelerate the plaque that sticks to your teeth and make your teeth less resilient to it. It's just so short-sighted. It just makes me angry.

It makes me angry that I used toothpaste for 42 years. Well, I mean, I can get into the dentist and stuff at a minute because I did call a dentist. I got so involved in this that I got a dentist on the phone. And I'll tell you what he had to say about it in a second. But Healthline did a compare. Have you ever heard of tooth powder before this moment? I feel like I have, but it looks like something. It's like, in my mind, that's from the era where they're like, have you tried cocaine drops for

your toothache? You know, it's like that bygone illegal medicine. Yeah, it just comes in a metal can with no label on it. You're like, what is going on here? Yeah, you just rub it on your teeth with your finger and it's like, perfect hygiene every time. So Healthline did a comparison of powder versus paste with pros and cons. And here's a basic summary of their findings. Okay.

I kind of took a bunch of stuff that they listed in charts and I just kind of made this little paragraph for myself for today. So the research indicates that powder is more effective at removing stains and plaque. So there's the big takeaway. Powder is more effective at removing stains and plaque. And it can be easily made at home with just a couple of simple ingredients. You just need some cocaine and some rocks. And someone to hold you down because it's going to burn. Someone to hold you down and maybe a piece of bark to bite into while you're using it.

But they point out that no powder on the. market has cavity protection. It's also not been awarded the ADA seal of acceptance by the American Dental Association. If I learned anything from home alone, it's that this toothbrush and all dental products have to be approved by the American Dental Association. Right. I think that was the entire takeaway of Home Alone. That was the whole point. It was actually funded by the ADA, I think. How may I help you? Is this toothbrush approved by the American Dental Association? Well, I don't know. It doesn't say, hon. Can you please find out?

Herb? Yeah. I've got a question here about a toothbrush. No, so it typically doesn't taste very good, and not all manufacturers are transparent with their ingredients. I mean, that's kind of a thing with just about every product. While toothpaste, it's easy to use, many different toothpaste have been awarded the ADA still of approval. It has cavity protection, but most of them, and this is a quote from Healthline, they say most toothpaste contain ingredients. that are areas of concern to many people,

such as fluoride or other chemicals. And they are also not transparent with their ingredients or practices. So the only real way to know exactly what you're brushing your teeth with is to get like a basic ingredient list of these plaque removing powders and make it at home.

Yourself? That's ridiculous, and I'm offended that anybody would think I have time to make my own two things at home. Goodness. All right, so anytime someone is this shape, with ingredients, there's almost always a class action lawsuit or 10 going on. Right. Yeah. So definitely most of the class action lawsuits have to do with major toothpaste

companies either withholding information, hiding something, or making something seem safe when the safety of a product either wasn't yet determined or isn't safe at all. The most recent one that I found is against Procter & Gamble, the owners of Crest, claiming that they are marketing this new charcoal fad as safe and effective without releasing the potential harmful effects of charcoal. And pro-teeth has also been sued for safety issues concerning charcoal. That's just the most recent. Charcoal is definitely trendy right now.

Like I see it in juice. I see it in all kinds of different products that are from supplements to, yeah, I guess toothpaste. Is there any merit to the lawsuit? Is it actually dangerous? Does it work? Yeah. So in 2017, an article in the Journal of the American Dental Association reported that

charcoal has been recognized as an abrasive mineral to the teeth and that its inclusion in tooth preparations raises concern about damage to these types of oral structures like your teeth, as well as increasing tooth decay susceptibility due to the potential loss of enamel. So it doesn't appear to be on the short list for professionals, but a New York judge tossed out that specific lawsuit, citing that the plaintiff contradicted her own testimony and that she failed to show that she was directly harmed by the product. So it kind of seems like a technicality. Like, well, it was false advertisement, but, you know, rather than doing a false advertisement, she did like, like, an injury type, like lawsuit. Like, I was harmed by this.

And I thought this was interesting, too. Another reason that the judge gave for throwing it out was that the plaintiff wasn't worried about the product until she heard about potential risks of charcoal in the media, which is kind of a bizarre thing to include in a ruling. I mean, if someone, if someone's using something because they've been marketed to, and then they see a news report or they hear a podcast like this and go, hey, wait a minute, maybe this stuff isn't safe. You know, maybe directly applying a lawsuit may not be the best course of action, but to throw it out based on her finding new information is really odd to me. Yeah, that's a little bit of a weird thing. It's kind of like saying, no, you're supposed to wait until you have mesothelioma in order to file a lawsuit.

You can't just say I am probably undergoing. I mean, I guess the truth is, if there's no damages, then it's hard to do a lawsuit. It's hard to file a successful lawsuit. However, still, the idea that this stuff is bad for you and it's in the toothpaste, yeah, you're right. Maybe a lawsuit isn't the way to go, but certainly people should be made aware of this product not being good for you. Well, there could be a class action false advertising lawsuit for sure. I mean, the ADA flat out says this stuff is not good for teeth, yet tons of toothpaste brands are marketing charcoal and it's blowing up all over Instagram. Like tons of people use it. I know people personally who use it every single day twice a day and they just have no idea.

So I'm sending them my research as I'm doing this going, you may want to stop using charcoal. Instagram models are blowing it. Have you seen all the advertisements on this and all the people using all the influencers? It's funny. People DM me on social media, but I don't use the feed at all. Like, I'm not scrolling through it. So I know there are influencers doing this because I see influencers shilling literally just about anything, even if it's horrendous for you. Jordan, you're missing out. There's nothing like a woman with a big booty in black teeth and make you want to rip out your credit card. Yeah. So another recent lawsuit claims that Proctor and Gamble have their toothpaste listed as clinically proven to help reverse gengivitis. And that's an interesting way to word that because the lawsuit says, according to medical

journals and the FDA, that a product like that can only control, reduce, or prevent gengivitis in early forms of gum disease, as opposed to reversing and repairing the condition. And it also notes that the FDA has not approved any over-the-counter oral care product for repairing gum damage, including gum damage caused by gingivitis. Because once gums recede due to gingivitis or other issues, it's typically because of bone loss and gum tissue cannot just grow back. It's usually a lot more drastic than that. So any claim stating that a single product can reverse gengivitis is false advertising. Now, that's the claim from the lawsuit. And as far as I know, that lawsuit is still pending. So once you have gingeritis, there's just no hope. You just got to take out your teeth?

Yeah, so that's what I was thinking from reading that and diving deeper into that, but I was getting conflicting information on it because I was finding some things that said gingeritis is somewhat reversible and gum disease is reversible. So I'm like, well, if it can be reversed, why is this a false advertising lawsuit? So I got on the phone with that dentist that I was talking about. He's actually a fan of my podcast and a Patreon subscriber. And I knew he was there. So I reached out to him, ask if he would do a quick phone call. And he said, yes. So we got on the phone. He wanted to remain anonymous, so I'm not crediting him. But, He says technically gingeritis is reversible if it's in the very early stages. So because gingeritis is basically starting with just inflammation or bleeding of the gums. That's all it is. Okay. But it's more reversing it has to do more with like the actions of flossing and home care and trips to the dentist that can help reverse it in the early stages. But he said if he were to come across a product that claimed to help reverse gingeritis, he'd be extremely skeptical. It doesn't make any sense to him.

Did you ask him about all this toothpaste drama? I did. He said that he looks for fluoride as a primary ingredient in toothpaste, but he acknowledged that he's not a specialist in any of the other ingredients. In fact, he had never come across the charcoal thing. He said he had never heard of anyone using charcoal to brush your teeth. It somehow has completely missed it. Maybe he also is not on Instagram.

And he acknowledged that, you know, coming from dental school and being certified by the ADA, he said, I may be in a bubble. I mean, he's a skeptic as well. And he's like, I'm willing to say, you've given me some stuff to think about. Because I was going through these ingredients. And he's like, I've never heard. to that. I didn't know that. I need to look into that. And so he was kind of taken aback by some of them. And then some of the ingredients like the polyethylene glycol that's in anaphrase. He said that was a

red flag for him when he was in dental school. And he pushed back and he was like, why is there an ingredient from antifreeze in toothpaste? And the answer was that's just the way it is. And he was like, okay. And then they kind of just dropped it. That's just the way it is. And also your, our annual retreat is sponsored by Crest this year. So don't ask any, don't be asking those kinds of questions at the dinner parties that we're having by the pool. Yeah. And he did say, he did say that if you have young children, which I know you do, he said that you may want to avoid fluoride in their toothpaste until they really understand the concept of, you know, not swallowing any because he says most kids swallow, you know, good portions of their toothpaste. So he said it may be a good

idea to avoid toothpaste in small children. Or go with the powders, go with the natural stuff, you know. And I asked him, I asked him if any of his patients ever refused to use fluoride. And he said about one to two percent, actually refuse it. And I said, are those teeth just as healthy as the ones who use fluoride? And he said, yes. He said they're very healthy teeth. But, and he made this good point, he said, people who are that conscious of what they're, like, if you're looking at the ingredients in your toothpaste and making a decision, you really care about your health that much, you typically eat healthier, you typically brush more often, and you probably brush for longer and more properly. So he's like brushing three times a day and brushing after every meal

and all that may be making up for the fact that they're not using fluoride. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. I'm waiting for them to invent nanobots that just clean my teeth for me. Until then, I'm a once a day and mouthwash in the morning kind of guy. Probably shouldn't disclose that on my show, but there is. Well, it's good to have a dentist in your pocket anytime you need. That's pretty handy.

Yeah, it's worked out a few times in my life. He actually gave me one parting tip that I have to say is life changing. And I've already implemented this in my life. He talked about the power of gum. Like when we were kids, we were always told about gum, like decaying your teeth and being bad for you and yada yada. But he broke it down scientifically. Basically, he said this. He's like, the primary reason people get cavities is not because of eating a candy bar or having something sweet.

He's like, do that. It's fine. But he's like, the primary reason is because of a pH balance and acid levels being thrown off due to things like coffee, sports drinks, energy drinks, sodas, beer. Basically anything other than water. He's like, it's the liquids that do it. Because what he says is these things, even though they taste good and they're liquid, they dry your mouth out. It's alcohol, it's orange juice, energy drinks, anything that's acidic. And he's like, basically everything you take in that's not water is going to be acid based on some level. And he's like, and when your mouth gets dry, your pH levels are off. That is what causes the tooth decay and ultimately cavities. So he said if you're out somewhere, you want to drink a sports drink, a gatorade, a monster, something like that. He's like, it's fine, do it, but incorporate drinks of water in between. so that your pH levels reset what he calls seven. It's a balance of seven.

Right, the pH of seven was same as water versus like zero super acidic or 14 super alkaline, right? Exactly. That's exactly what he said. So he's like, just drink a little bit of water while you're having your beer or right after your beer or in between beers, sip water. If you want to go to a bar and have a cocktail, order a water with it and actually drink the water. Don't just let it sit there and watch the ice melt.

And he said, if you don't have water, then chew gum while you're out. So if you're after dinner, always have some gum handy and pop some gum in because that gum helps produce saliva and that reset your mouth back to a pH balance of seven. So just doing the gum and water thing can drastically help reduce your cavities. I will definitely be chewing gum after dinner. I'm just flashing back to all the things I've been drinking for 40 years growing up in Michigan where like you never, you didn't need water. You just had Pepsi. And I'm just cringing at all the damage. I've for sure done to my teeth as a result of all of this.

and including using toothpaste, which is also just made things even worse, apparently. Jeez. Right. So I want to leave everyone with this. I want people to have options, right? So the ADA has a full list of 56 accepted products with the ADA seal stamped on it. And I've also included a comprehensive list of the top 15 natural toothpaste options. And we can provide links to both.

And some of the natural toothpaste also have fluoride in them. So there are options of fluoride and non-fluoride. and we can provide links to both of those in the show notes. So listeners can remain skeptical, do their own research, and make their own decisions about their own health. And thank you so much. Slash, I'm annoyed now because now that whenever I learn this, I'm like, well, okay, 42 years have gone by and now I have to change my entire life,

at least from a dental hygiene perspective. Yep. Yeah. Just chew more gum and drink more water, and you're usually going to be okay. But this toothpaste thing is definitely worth looking into because we do it so much so often. Yep, I'm going to have to go outside and look for some gravel to make my own toothpaste now. I have good luck with that. If you're looking for another episode of the Jordan Harbinger show to sink your teeth into,

here's a trailer with Malcolm Gladwell, which is pretty timely right now. We'll discuss why the information we gather from face-to-face human interaction isn't as uniquely valuable as we think it is, and why television can actually make us worse at reading other people. Young African-American woman is in Texas, just has a job interview in a rural Texas town, Sandra Bland, and she's pulled over by a white police officer. Hello, ma'am. They have a conversation.

You mind putting out of your cigarette, please? It quickly escalates. I will remove you. I'm giving you a lawful order. Okay, you're going to yank me out of my car. Drags her out of the car. I will light you up. Get out now!

Knock my head in the ground like an epilems for you, motherfucker. She's put in prison. And three days later, she commits suicide in her cell. If she's in an Audi, her chances of being pulled over at lower. And if she's in an Audi with Texas plates, she's fine. Most of all, if she's white, there's no way he's pulling her over. And as I describe in the book, All of those inferences are deeply problematic.

We have enormous confidence in our ability to draw meaningful conclusions about people based on very superficial evidence. Even though the plots of friends are absurdly complex, no one in history has ever watched an episode of Friends and said they lost me. What is going on in the show? Yeah, never happened. They do that because they're trained actors. If you watch a lot of TV, you can come to the false impression that that's what's going on in your face. But in truth, that's not true at all. And a significant number of people are what are called mismatched,

and that is that their facial expressions under certain circumstances do not match the way they feel on the inside. The Amanda Knox case, an American teenager, goes to a year abroad in Italy and gets falsely accused of murdering her roommate. And that case is all about the fact that Amanda Knox is mismatched. They have another guy who clearly did it, and they drag her in. Why? Because she doesn't behave the way the Italian police

and the British tabloid press think someone whose roommate has been murdered ought to behave. We are sending people to jail for years and years and years for crimes they had nothing to do with. Kids, I mean, she was like a college student. For more from Malcolm Gladwell, including how the misunderstandings between people and cultures invite conflict. I told you this was timely. Check out episode 256 of the Jordan Harbinger show. Kind of scary that something we are supposed to put in our mouth every single day and putting our kids' mouths for that matter is something that you really, really, really should not swallow. There's a lot wrong with toothpaste that I just never had any idea about, and that sort of freaks me out

because I've definitely swallowed plenty of toothpaste in my day. I'll make a habit out of it, but at least I didn't think it was actually bad for me. That's one of the side effects of doing these episodes. A lot of things that I did my whole life turned out to be really bad ideas. Thanks to all who listened, topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday are always welcome. Email me, Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. and give us your thoughts. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com as well.

Transcripts in the show notes. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find David Smalley at David C. Smalley on all social media platforms at David C. Smalley.com or better yet, on his podcast, The David C. Smalley Show. Links to all that in the show notes as well.

This show has created an association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who needs to hear it. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard,

so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here,

just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much

what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. smart ideas you can actually use in real life something you should know has been featured in apple's shows we love and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting so if you want another show that scratches that i want to understand how people in

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