The Jordan Harbinger Show - 68: When Is the Perfect Time to Have Kids? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: July 13, 2018

Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Jason DeFillippo (@jpdef) are back to banter every week and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now, let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: When times seem tough, just remember it's rare they ever get "stuck in a cave in Thailand awaiting uncertain rescue" tough. Do you ever feel like you can't accept someone else's offer of help for fear that you will owe them something that you can't "pay back?" Is there ever a right time to have kids? Way of the Peaceful Warrior author and friend of the show Dan Millman writes in with his take. Is it true that there are more and bigger opportunities in the big city? When is Producer Jason going to graduate to Co-Host Jason? When you're creating content for the general public (like YouTube videos or a podcast), how do you stay motivated to remain consistent and inspire improvement when growth is slower than you'd like? How can you present invitations to friendly gatherings in a way that is enticing? How do you get your foot in the door to an industry you find attractive when you currently lack experience in that industry? Recommendation of the Week: The Gateway Podcast Quick shoutouts to John Raynaud, the GM at Pizza My Heart and Jules Bradley from the UK! Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Jason on Twitter at @jpdef and Instagram at @JPD, and check out his other show: Grumpy Old Geeks. Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider leaving your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course!  Full show notes and resources can be found here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger, and I'm here with producer Jason DePhilippo. Here on the Jordan Harbinger show, we love having conversations with our fascinating guests. And this week, we had Guy Winch talking about the science of heartache, how to be the right type of support. Why are autopilot response that our emotional wounds used to try to heal themselves or that our mind uses to try to heal emotional wounds? It's actually not the way to go. A lot of insight into the science of heartache on that one. We also spoke with Alan Gannett about the creative curve. We demystified creative genius a little bit, debunked the 10,000-hour rule, and gave some

practicals for increasing our creativity by actually consuming more content. So really interesting episodes that we had going this week if you miss those. Of course, our primary mission here on the show is to pass along our guest's wisdom and our experiences and insights along to you. In other words, the real purpose of the show is to have conversations directly with you. And that's what we're going to do today here on feed you. back Friday. You can reach us at Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep them concise if you can. It makes things just so much easier for us. And Jason, before we start, are you following this cave

rescue at all? I mean, it is just. Yeah, it's harrowing. I've been watching it nonstop. I've got CNN on the background just on mute so I can see when they get more kids out of the cave. It's crazy. It is, I think the whole world is holding its breath. And I know that that's dramatic because there's people who are like, I've never even heard of this, who cares my life goes on. But for me, I think it has a special sort of place because I, as I've said before on the show, being trapped in a cave is like my worst nightmare, a cave with water. So thinking about these kids in that cave, it makes me like have actual physical reactions to it. Yeah, especially since they were in there for like a couple weeks in the dark by themselves before they were even found.

Imagine how terrifying that's going to be for them. Yeah. Imagine you're just there. And then what are you doing? You're like, okay, before I get too weak from starvation, I'm just going to swim for it. And then you're going to drown. But you know that you're probably going to almost certainly going to die. So then you're just like, screw it.

I guess I'll just stay here starving and weak. And then it's one's incredible story. It is. And then one, imagine what happened when the diver popped up and was like, hey, We're looking for you. Yeah. And then they're like, crap, he spoke English, who speaks English? Right?

But then on top of that, it's raining and there's more water going into the cave and there's oxygen being taken out of the cave. And then one of the Navy SEAL divers died going back and forth from the cave. It's just like, it's just unreal. This reminds me of back in the 90s. I don't remember the kid trapped in the well stories that happened. Yeah, of course. It's kind of like that where the entire country is watching, like hoping they get them out.

except for some of those that it was just a hoax when the kid wasn't actually in the well. But that's a different story. But this is just, this is incredible. Yeah, it's nuts. And so it's the whole world is watching this. The Thai government's trying to do this rescue. Elon Musk sent over engineers from his boring company to try to figure out ways to drill. And it turns out they can't drill.

And then have you heard about these two guys, they call themselves the A team or something like that? And they're one of the dudes is like a firefighter from the UK. and the other dude is some sort of IT guy. Okay. And they specialize in underwater cave rescues. Oh, no way. It's like a hobby that these guys have had is underwater cave diving. And they've gotten so good at it.

They've invented a bunch of technology. And they heard about this, flew out there. Imagine asking, look, boss, I got to leave. We're in the middle of a project. What could be so important? I'm the only person in the world other than this other guy who know how to rescue people in an underwater. cave and there's a soccer team trapped in there.

All right. See in three weeks. Like, what are you going to do? So these guys flew out there and apparently that's how that's one of the guys that found the kids. Oh, no way. And what's even more incredible is those kids are like two and a half miles into the cave.

So imagine you're this diver and you don't know what's ahead of you, but you just keep going two and a half effing miles in a cave with your gear. Yep. Like you don't know what's in this cave. You don't understand. You don't know anything and you just keep going. I wouldn't have thought to look that far into the cave. I mean, first of all, I wouldn't have even gone into the cave.

Yeah. But like, I wouldn't have even thought to do it. And so, oh, it's just so, I just feel so bad. And this is, I don't know what, what's wrong with people, but their original plan to get these kids out. I don't know if you heard this was to just wait until months. And season is over in October. Oh, my God. So what are these kids going to do?

They're going to, like, bring them a bunch of lights, food. vitamins. Hopefully a Kindle. Maybe a Kindle with a bunch of tie books on it. I mean, three months in an underground cave, that just seems like a not real plan. They would turn into Gallum. I mean, so many things can go wrong in three months during a monsoon season when you're trapped in a freaking cave, right? Right.

Like, how is that a real plan? So I don't know. The reason I'm bringing this up on the show is, you know, going through a tough time, as this year has been tough for us, looking at something like that and just going, oh my gosh, what am I even? I'm in my air-conditioned house in California, for God's sake. You know, this is so much, keeping things in perspective is just so much easier. And additionally, I think knowing that there's people going through something like that and they're toughing it out because they have to is in some ways very inspiring,

even though I just wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Well, some enemies I would. Yeah, maybe my worst enemy, but, you know, no one else for sure. Sure. The interesting thing is by the time you guys hear this, this will have already been finished. We hope. This is our view when we record this on Monday. So hopefully everything will be A-OK by the time this airs. So it will definitely have come to a conclusion by then. Because there's only what? There's six people left in there still. Seven. Seven. I believe. Yeah. As of this morning, there were seven. They got the fifth person out this morning. So they're

going to get all the kids out in order of health. And then the last person to come out as the coach and the and the divers. So that coach must feel pretty crappy about this. Yeah, that's why he's coming out last. I mean, it's one of those things where you're definitely coming out last, dude. If they brought him out like,

you know, anywhere but last, they would be a lynching going on. Oh, I think they're going to have to have a police escort for that guy. Yeah. For like a month.

Yeah, he's going into Wittsack for sure. Yeah. And you know what sucks is he's like 23. It's not like he went. Screw it. Let's throw caution to the wind. Yeah.

He just did something I think they'd done before. Oh, God. Anyway, anyway, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Hey, Jordan and team, a quick note to say I watched Jordan's interview with Tom Billiue a few days ago and something lifted in me. I'm currently going through a disappointment and setback at my job, and I felt like I had a buddy in this. The emotions communicated in your undertones were the same I was feeling and battling. It seems everything is okay when you have a bud going through the same thing with you. Thanks for the rawness.

I have a question for Feedback Friday. Well, good, because this is Feedback Friday. In the Impact Theory interview, you talked about keeping score and covert contracts. Can you talk about the same, but with the feeling, quote unquote, I owe my friend, acquaintance, or whomever. I've noticed I'm much more prone to poisoning relationships in this weird way than with someone else owing me. So I think what he's saying is he, like, you're looking at it from the opposite side, thinking that the other person is going to have a covert contract instead of him having one. Right. He's kind of, he's kind of freaked out about that. He or she doesn't want to owe anything to anyone else because she feels like, uh-oh, I'm not going to be able to provide.

That's what it sounds like to me. So yeah, what are your thoughts? I often feel like I can't accept someone else's offer for any help for fear that I will owe them something that I can't pay back. Oh, yeah. Keep it oozing that awesomeness. It's reaching far and wide. Signed, you can keep your covert contracts. Nice.

Yeah, this is a great point because I think there are people out there that are like, look, I'm not keeping score about what people owe me. I'm worried I won't be able to provide. So keeping score just as a refresher course, and this is something we've talked about in level one, is that you're the type of person if you keep score that says, well, I drove Jason to the airport twice, so he owes me a trip to the airport, or he owes me this, or he owes me lunch,

or he owes me, you know, this, he has to dog sit for me, or something like that. And it poisons relationships, these covert contracts in keeping score, covert contract being, I think that we have an agreement where I drove you to the airport and so therefore you have to babysit my dog. And then when I say, hey, will you dog sit and you say, no, I don't want a dog in my house. I get mad because I feel like you broke a promise, but we never agreed. And people do this

subconsciously all the time. So this is sort of a reverse thing where she or he doesn't really want to owe anyone else anything because she feels I'm just going to stick with she that she can't pay the favor back. This is kind of normal. It's usually the other way around like I said, but I would reframe you, quote unquote, owing them or having to pay them back. Refram that as an opportunity for them, and you'll look for the same opportunity, right? So them helping you, it's an opportunity for them to grow their social capital, so to speak, and for you to help them, same thing. So what we talk about in level one and at advanced human dynamics is actually that

it's good to be able to help other people because it's an opportunity to garner some referral currency, right? It doesn't mean they owe you one. What it means is that you're building reputation, you're building up goodwill. Even if that person never pays you back, you're engendering enough goodwill, you're building a reputation for yourself, and you're building a habit of being generous. All of those things are valuable. So if you look at this as an opportunity and not an obligation, then you don't really have to worry, uh-oh, Jordan keeps driving me to the airport and I can never pay him back because I don't

have a car. That's not something that I'm thinking about, and most people are not thinking, oh, gee, what do I owe this person? You have to be careful here because if they're making you feel obligated, they're actually keeping score, which means that that's their problem, not yours. The other thing is if you're putting this on yourself, look, I get it, you're nice, but maybe to a bit of a neurotic degree here, the reframe of them wanting to help you and getting the chance to do so as a show of friendship, that should help you accept their help.

Additionally, there might be a self-worth issue going on here. So be aware of that and try to figure out what, might be going on there. If you think maybe you're unworthy of help or you're devaluing yourself or you're devaluing the help that you can possibly give, look at where that might show up elsewhere in your life. Because I have a feeling, when somebody helps me with something and I think, oh, I'll be able to get that person back later on if they ever need anything. I'm not ever thinking I can never help this person because I'm not useful. I don't really think like that. So if you're thinking like that, this could be a self-worth issue. And shout out to

Tom Bill you for bringing this person into our fold here on the show. I was interviewed by him. We're actually going to run that interview as a bonus episode in the feed because I feel like it was good. It got a lot of positive feedback. And if you're looking at the networking stuff, the mindsets, the tips, the tricks, the drills, go to advancedhumandynamics.com slash level one. Advancedhuman dynamics.com slash level one. That's where we have a lot of these drills and mindsets for networking and relationship development that are going to help you get really good at this and create a set of habits and a mindset to really reach out and be useful to your network and build that network. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I actually reached out to my friend Dan Milman. I don't know if you

guys remember him. He's been on the show a few times. He's an author. He wrote a book called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, among other books, among a lot of other books, actually. And I was just checking in with them and I was telling them that Jen and I were thinking about having kids at some point, but there's all this legal stuff and we're rebuilding the business and da-da-da-da, and we're working so hard over here. And we're trying to decide when to start having kids. And I said, I think the answer to this is probably there's never a right time. Am I at least right about that?

It seems like a really bad time, but is it going to be any better anytime soon is the question? And he gave us a really good response. Jason, you want to read it? Hi, Jordan. Good to hear from you. Doing well here in Brooklyn as I work my way into my final book project, a memoir. Any response to your good question about when to start having kids is a paradox, because while on a practical level, there may seem to be better times to raise children,

basic stability in locale, and financials, and when major schooling commitments are complete, and one has some free attention and energy to give to children. On the other hand, as you intuit, there's certainly no ideal or right time. Physiologically, mid-20s to mid-30s probably works best for women, but there are always exceptions. One doesn't have to be totally established in a career. In fact, the birth of a child and children can be a great motivator, giving meaning and purpose to making a good living. Basically, despite concerns or doubts, when you start thinking seriously about children, that may be the best time. From my perspective and experience, parenting is both a sacrifice and delight. It's all in the abstract until it's

real as you look into the eyes of your baby. Life will never be the same. It's a form of voluntary adversity that will ultimately deepen and enrich your life and humanity. Good journeys, Dan. And I love that response. And so did Jen. And I just think that it really, because everyone has these opinions on it, like, oh, there's never a right time. You just got to do it. Or, oh, yeah, you should wait to do it. Oh, well, this is the only one that really seemed very measured and balanced. Right. And also from somebody who kind of understands the situation. Because people who have nine to fives or have a trust fund, they don't have the same perspective on when to have kids, because they go, yeah, just do it.

You know, everything will fall into place. And I'm like, your dad gave you a $3 million house. I don't know if I should listen to you, right? Yeah, really. Yeah. Measured response there for sure to make sure that you're getting the right advice at the right time. Now, I threw in a link, which is one of my favorite pieces of film ever made, which is the introduction to the movie Idiocracy.

And if you've never seen it, the link will be in the show notes. And I think that kind of sums up what happens when you wait. So I think you guys should start now. That's my personal opinion. Because you got nine months at least. That's true. We got nine months at least. It's not like you start tomorrow and then it's there next week.

So you got some time. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, you're right. I probably need to start doing some more hard exercise or something like that to go into the gym is great. But if you'd barely break a sweat while you're there, you know, I got to burn off some extra steam to make sure I'm sleeping well at night enough to be changing diapers in the morning. Put it on the calendar. We know nothing gets done unless it's on your calendar.

So put making babies on the calendar. There you go. There you go. All right, next out of the mailbag. Hi, Jordan and Jason. I'm a 30-year-old project manager at a small to medium-sized manufacturing company. I'm currently living and working at a smaller city, not a major one, and that's what my email is about. Should I move to a major city?

I've read material and seen videos in YouTube and some other websites of people saying there are more and bigger opportunities in the big city. New York City. Get a rope. We're the only people that remember that commercial. Exactly. Some say that I'm doing well for my age, and while I agree, I feel that I still could have done better at this stage, and I feel that the size of the company and city I live in might be a factor. After a business trip to Houston, it felt like this is even more true in that I'd do much better if I were in a city like Houston. Do you think this is actually true?

Is this just a kind of fomo, or perhaps a case of the grass being greener on the other side? Should I just stay and work on possibly getting the next promotion? I feel like every year I hold off moving is another year's worth of opportunity. lost. Keep doing what you're doing. I know the new show will be back on top in no time. Thank you for your response. To move or not to move. That is the question. Look, this is going to be controversial, but I would say, yes, move if you can. Absolutely. There's a reason that people move to bigger cities for opportunity. There's just always more opportunity. Yes, we're in a digital age. Yes, you can get so many things done at home. Yes, you can network and you can telecommute and

you can blah, blah, blah. But if you're around it, there's just something else. It's a different energy. you're going to be in different social circles. In fact, you're always going to be around more diverse groups of people and diverse perspectives in cities. You're going to have co-working spaces, different types of environments where you work, different hours. You'll want to move away from the city again when you get married and have kids, I would imagine. So now it really is the time to make this happen. It really is. You're going to find that living in cities offers just opportunity, just being around it.

you're going to run into opportunity all over the place just by going to your friends party and meeting some gal there that is in publicity for some movie company. I mean, things like that just happen there that will never happen in a smaller town. It's more fun. You'll get it out of your system. You'll be around different types of work, too, which I think is important because a lot of people go, well, you know, I want to do this thing and there's not really much of that in a city. You kind of don't know what you want to do until you're about 30, for most of us.

not necessarily for everyone, but for most of us. So you have to be around different types of work because you might find something you like better. For example, you might be a lawyer and going, all right, well, I live in the city and I really like being a lawyer. And then you go, well, wait a minute. I have all these friends that do law for production companies. And that seems really interesting.

So you start doing that. And then you go, you know what, actually, I just want to produce things. Why am I doing the law part? Like, I don't need to do that just because I have a lot of degree. So your career will migrate in ways that probably don't happen outside of big cities because they're not doing that particular job in that small town, period. And I think that's important to get through when you're young. I really do.

I don't think you should pick something because that's what you've always done unless you're very content doing that. And I feel, Jason, I've talked about this on the show before. There is an element of sort of, I wouldn't even say jealousy, but more of like an envy, where I think, you know, my life would have been simpler if I just thought, I'm never going leave Michigan. I'm going to get married to somebody that I met in college, live in Michigan, do a Michigan job, and just be, you know, a teacher or something like that. I would have been fine with that. But me personally, I couldn't do that. I was too restless. So I had to go live

abroad and then I had to go live in New York and then I had to go live in L.A. And then I had to go in San Francisco, right? That was my path because I couldn't sit still. So if you're feeling that itch, I would say it's probably not going to go away. But if you really don't want to move and you're just kind of feel like you have to, I would still do it for a year if you can and see if there's something there for you. Because if you don't do it now, it's going to be hard later. And you might always wonder if you miss something. Yeah, I mean, he's a 30-year-old project manager at a manufacturing company. So he's not super young, but he's still not old. So he's definitely got time to go get in on the big city. It's like, you know, when I started out, I was 25. And the first thing I did

was move to Los Angeles when I got the opportunity because my dad taught me when I was, you know, pretty young, go where they do the thing that you want to do. Because if you're not there, you're not going to do it. So if he really wants to get like, you know, into the big manufacturing companies and get some really big projects, that's where he's got to go. And I think it, I think definitely right now, now is always the best time to do something. So get on it, get out, explore, find out what you want to do. And if you do have to go home because it doesn't fit, then you have the opportunity to go home. But the older you get, the harder it's going to be to get into those jobs and you might miss those opportunities. So yeah, I'm with Jordan. Go, go for it.

All right. Well, there you have it. You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show and this is Feedback Friday. Stick around and we'll get right back to the show after these important but very brief messages. Thank you for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. To learn more about our sponsors, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash advertisers. And don't forget to check out our awesome Alexa skill. Go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash Alexa or search for Jordan Harbinger in the Alexa app. Now let's get back to your questions here on Feedback Friday. Next up.

Jordan and Jason, I was listening to the intro of one of the shows and just wondered, when does Jason graduate from producer Jason to co-host Jason? Never. I realize my nose doesn't really belong in your business is business, but I'm noticing that Jason's part in the show is slowly becoming more than just producer in the background and, at least to me, his input is always welcome and helpful. Well, thank you very much. I'm loving the new show, and I'm enjoying the freedom you now have to do what you want.

All the best, pushing for a promotion. Nice. Well, gee, anonymous. I didn't put this one in here. I just want to say, I didn't put this one in here. This is not me. No, no, no, this does not come from me. I was very surprised to see this morning.

Yeah, well, there you go. Again, I said never before. I'll say it again. The student must not outshine the master. No, I'm fine. Look, you're basically the co-host anyway. The only reason you don't talk as much, look, I'll speak for you on this because that's very apropos for this question. The only reason you don't talk as much is because there's a 90% chance that your dog is barking.

There's a leaf blower going. It's so hot in your studio you can't move or your face will melt off. Or you're listening for pops, crackles, stuff like that, looking up facts as the person speaks and saying, hey, this is demonstrably untrue. You should say something about that or like, you got the number wrong. Let's correct it. Or sending you all the funny jokes that I don't get to say. Right. Sending me all the jokes that people go, Jordan, you're so hilarious.

And meanwhile, I'm like, thanks, Jason. You should have said that. Nah, I'm good. I don't want to outshine the master. I know my place. But really, I mean, you're basically there. I mean, you have that part in the show. It's not, he's not allowed to talk.

You don't feel that way, do you? Of course not. And I edit the shows. So I can put in whatever I want. That's right. You could just do a whole bunch of stuff after the fact, and I wouldn't even know until it was too late. Yep. That's how it rolls.

No, I'm fine. being producer jason i like my title i am happy to be here and i love being the co-host on feedback fridays and when it's appropriate on the other shows i chime in when it's appropriate and when i have something to contribute so i i think i think producer jason rolls off the tongue co-host jason kind of has too many stops in it so we're just going to stick with producer jason for now but thank you so much for for the email i i actually made my day well there you go all right next up hello j and jay i'm a part-time youtube with a really small channel where i mainly talk about music and music related topics. I really enjoy it, but the success of the channel isn't very motivating and can

really affect morale sometimes. I enjoy the discipline aspect of recording videos and editing them, even though I don't get that many views. I'm not saying I want fame or recognition, which this might sound like. It's just the temptation to stop being consistent in quitting that bothers me and how it could negatively affect other areas of my life. I find some sense of accomplishment when I record, edit, and upload. I guess in a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is When I find another avenue I enjoy, but the success is delayed, how do I stay motivated to remain consistent and inspire improvement? Much love, viewless in Seattle. So this is an interesting dilemma, but not such a hard conundrum, I don't think, Jason.

I mean, we did the show for years without even looking at the metrics. And then once you joined, I think you were probably one of the catalysts that said, hey, you should look at how many downloads you're getting per episode, and then we have a metric we can use, and a goal we can go after and all this stuff. I mean, that's kind of how we started with it, right? I mean, we didn't even pay that much attention to it. And even now, while we're building, all we're really curious about and focused on is, are we growing a little bit at all, right?

Like, we're not really, I don't know about for you personally, Jason, but I am, I'm leaned off the metrics themselves quite a bit now because there's no point in going, we had 300 new subscribers last week. It's just not worth it to sit there and go, why didn't we get more? Why did we only have, it's just not worth it. It's not part of the, it's not part of the main idea here. Yes, we have to grow. But if you, if you're not going to do this even if no one's watching, if you're not

going to produce videos, even if no one's watching, if you're not going to do a show, even if no one's listening, if you're waiting on other people to give you morale, purpose, you're just going to be waiting forever. And you've got to work on projects you love, yes, but there's no need to depend on them for a living. Our situation a little different because this is our living. You know, we sell ads. We have products and services, advanced human dynamics and stuff like that. But for now, since it's the beginning of your career, I would say just become the best at your craft.

That's what really motivates me right now is working on this until it's so good people can't ignore you. And I know that people aren't just going to magically find you. But if you're doing all the right things to promote and you're getting better and better and better at your craft, then you don't have much to worry about. It's the people who burn out and fizzle out are the people that go, all right, I'm going to focus on the marketing and then I have to have something to market. And so they're putting up a show every day, but it's the same crap, and they do a great job marketing it. They don't really have a steadily growing fan base. They have this sort of a transient fan base. So if you're so good they can't ignore you.

By the way, there's a book called So Good They Can't Ignore You by my friend Cal Newport, who is awesome. You should grab that as well. We'll link to that in the show notes. it's about becoming so good at your craft that later on when it is time to market, it's an easy product to sell. Because what you're selling isn't, please pay attention to me, what you're selling is, I can't believe you don't know about this. Right. It generates word of mouth. It generates the right type of fans that stick around.

Yeah, you have to do it for the love of the game. That's really it. I'm glad you have laid off of the stats because now what we do is we spend our time making the show better, honing our craft, and not worrying about. not really worrying day to day about how many people are coming because we know they're going to come. And if we make a better show every week than we made the week before, even more people will come. And that's really what it comes down to. You know, on Grumpy Old Geeks, my other show, we said at the outset, if we don't make any money out of this by the first 10 episodes, we're going to quit. And it was episode 170 before we got our first advertiser.

But we didn't quit because we love doing it. So you have to love what you're doing. And if something else comes along that you love more, I don't think there's anything wrong with Bounder. to the thing that you love more. But if you're doing what you love, you're going to be happy. You know, and this isn't follow your passion. This is just, you know, if this is not your main hustle and it's your side thing and you're just enjoying it for the fact that you're enjoying it, then I don't see why you should feel guilty

about changing the thing that you enjoy if something new comes along that you enjoy more. Yeah, I think it's unhealthy to rely so much on this stuff that you just can't get your, You just start to feel, well, not enough people are listening, watching whatever, so it's not worth doing. That has to be an internal drive. It doesn't mean you can't change what you're doing to suit your market better and learn from that. But it shouldn't be, well, nobody's reading what I'm writing, so I'm not going to write anymore. Well, how much do you really love writing? You know, if no one's watching me lift weights and go to the gym, but I still do that, right?

Right. So that, that's, you kind of have to look at it that way. And I know that you'll find that sense of accomplishment when you record, edit, and upload, like you said. But the success, yeah, it's delayed. And the way you stay motivated is you say, I'm moving forward in my skill set, if not my size of my audience. And another, to sort of put a cherry on this, whenever, whenever I look at people I really admire, when I look at the Anthony Bourdains and the Mike Rose and stuff like that, yes, these guys have an element of genius. but look at the age at which they found their success.

I'm not super familiar with Bordane's career track, but I want to say he was at least in his 40s. Anthony Bourdain's first article that came out in the New Yorker magazine, he wrote when he was 40. And then he had an 18-year career before he unfortunately killed himself. But his career trajectory started when he was 40 years old. He built up all of his skills, and then he started to write. And he was a fantastic writer. and that's what, you know, catapulted him to success. And it turns out he had a great voice, which was outside the norm.

And then his career was not as long as a lot of people might think. So he was alive a lot longer than, you know, he was successful. Mike Rowe, who is thankfully still with us, love that guy as well. Also one of my favorite interviews and show guests. He, I want to say, started doing freaking like QVC or something like that. I mean, literally selling dumb products that he was making fun of and getting in trouble for. Exactly. Yeah.

And I think he was in his late 30s, early 40s. And then I think dirty jobs started and he was something like 43, 44. So there you go. So just keep working on your craft. And look, I'm not saying you have to be a starving artist until you're 44 years old. But what I look at when I go, I'm never going to make it is, well, one, we're making it. Two, I'm 38. Who knows what's going to happen in four years?

And then what? I'm on the same career track time-wise as Mike Roe. I'll take it. Yeah. You know, why not? And I'm not trying to be Mike Ro. I'm not trying to host dirty jobs 2.0. But you get the idea.

The people that we admire, when we look at the iceberg, we're really only seeing everything that's above the water. We're like, wow, look at how illustrious they are. It's amazing. What we don't see is flex ladder, three o'clock in the morning on QVC, auditioning for local acting roles, you know, saying, I've got opera experience. That's what Mike Roe was doing.

Yep. You know, it was stuff like that. So you think you, you know, at least you're enjoying what you're doing for crying out loud. A lot of people don't even get that sort of far with it in the beginning. We'll be right back with more feedback Friday after these extremely short but unbelievably necessary announcements. Thanks for listening and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. Your support keeps us on the air. For a list of all the discounts from our amazing sponsors, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash adornspeople.

advertisers. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us a nice rating and review in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. It really does help us out and gets other people interested in the show. If you want some tips on how that can be done, head on over to Jordan Harbinger.com slash subscribe. Now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. All right. Next up. Hi, Jordan, Jason, and team. I've said it before and I'll say it once again. Thank you guys for all the value you put out into the world. You've imparted so much knowledge on me that I've thought of writing you all into my will. Okay. Granted, I'm 24 and I only have some semi-exensive

shoes to my name, but no, the thought is there. I'm writing to ask if you have any advice on how to present invitations to friendly gatherings in a way that is enticing. I'm noticing that when I invite people to things, I can get a lot of, hey, that sounds great responses, but not a lot of follow-through. I remember you guys talking about the LA parties you'd throw where little to know people would show, and I'm wondering if there are any tips, tricks, and the like that got people more interested in coming to your events. Your advice will be savored and used to better everything and everyone around me. Yours truly, RSV, please. Well, first of all, thanks for the kind words. I will say there's a couple ways to get people to come to your events. And it's always tricky,

especially, yeah, with the LA thing, that was, that was even more unique because the LA situation is ridiculous. It's Flake City. Traffic is bad. It's full of flaky people initially, anyway, especially Hollywood, where I was living before. Tip number one, plan in advance, but not too far in advance. Remember, people might say yes, and then they cancel because they don't feel like it in the moment. But a week or so in advance, that's fine. If you're trying to do things like next month on Tuesday, I've got this.

People are going to go, sure, I've got nothing else to do. But as that date approaches, they're going to start to get their schedule packed. Which, to look at it this way, one of the things I try to do, not always adhere to this, but what that I try to do when somebody invites me to something is I say, what if this is tomorrow? What if this is next week? Would I still want to go? And if the answer is no, then I don't book it for a month from now because when that week

rolls around, I'm going to go, oh, I booked a lunch with so-and-so. Why did I do that? Oh, because when I put it on my calendar, it was the only thing I had going in August, right? So you don't want to do that to yourself, and other people are not going to want to do that. So a week or so in advance is fine. And even if you think, all right, this week, I'm going to do this, tell people a week, maybe 10 days in advance. Two, confirm and reconfirm. Use text messages.

Those who reply should be on board. Those who don't reply, they're not going to show up. Just face it. If somebody, if you're like, hey, are we still down for Thursday? And then you don't hear from them or you see the dots and then the dots go away. Then you see the dots and the dots go away. They're not coming. They're just being a wimp and they're going to go, oh, sorry, I just saw this or something like that later on.

But really, I'll speak more to that later. Also, when people do agree to go, use a little bit of accountability and leadership. So you might say, oh, cool, Jim, I'm glad you're coming on Friday. I need you to bring the chips and salsa. And Mike, you're going to bring your Xbox, right? All right, Charlie and Jake, you guys are bringing over a 75-inch TV. We're going to play some Halo, whatever it is. Because if it's just show up at 7, then people can go,

eh, I don't feel like getting off the couch. But if it's like, show up at 7 and you're bringing your Xbox, then they're like, oh crap, if I don't show up, the whole thing is ruined because they don't have the equipment that I said I was going to bring. Right? Because if people don't bring themselves, they're like, oh, well, who cares? But if people don't bring something they said they would bring that you reconfirmed they would bring, that now they know they're being jerks. And this way, people know you're counting on them. It makes it harder for them to rationalize they can flake or bail with no consequences.

And this worked really well for me in L.A., but what also really worked for me was cutting out friends who just couldn't get their crap together. plenty of people actually show up when they're supposed to it's just that plenty of people also don't so if you've got people that just never show up they always flake stop inviting those people out you have other options I know it might seem that everyone is flaky it's not true there's a group of people or there's a category of person or something that just thinks that everything is optional even when they commit those people are annoying to be friends with because they always screw up the plans so just find other people you don't need

people. That's my opinion. Well, there it is. Yep. All right. What's next? Hey, team, great work on the new show. I'm a 26-year-old man originally from New York who graduated from a good university four years ago. While all my friends went the white-collar route immediately after graduating, I chose to take a more experiential route, trying new things and traveling to new places. My friends didn't quite understand this non-path, but I knew it was important to me to explore the world a bit before, in my mind, prematurely optimizing into any particular career. That is to say, I optimized for life experience rather than work experience. I'm currently in Bogota, Columbia, where I'm a citizen, and I'm contemplating my next step.

I've been here for six months, and I've experienced the good and bad of Latin American life, and seeing the inefficiencies has made me realize there's a lot I could do to help smooth out some rough edges. A famously rough edge in this country is financial services, including corruption, and I want to try and create a solution that makes financial transactions possible without, sometimes literally, pages of paperwork required to move money around. My problem is this. I majored in social sciences in college and have very little experience in economics and finance, but a very big post-college interest in blockchain technology. I want to get a job with a startup financial technology company in New York for networking and industry knowledge, but I don't know where to start, given my

lack of knowledge about anything finance. A foot in the door would mean the world to me. I've reached out to an alum via LinkedIn for a job in sales at the FinTech company where she works, and she viewed my profile but didn't say anything back. I'm in a tough place where I need to start making money again, but also have entrepreneurial ambitions that I know would require an expanded network and more industry knowledge to really get off the ground. Am I going about this the right way? How can I not starve will I learn what I think I need to know? Thank you. Strive, not starve. All right. So very specific question, but I will say that what you can do, I'm always a fan of getting just one step closer in every area. And you've heard me say this

before. Look, you can't get your dream job. That doesn't matter. Go get something that brings you one step closer to that. Oh, you don't have the right job in the right location. Get the right job in the wrong location and then switch locations. You know, there's there's all kinds of little steps that are kind of for me, 20-20 hindsight that worked out for me. And when things didn't work out, it's like, oh, yeah, I didn't follow this. Right. So in your case, what I would do is work at a fintech or financial company on the ground using your existing degree. It doesn't really matter what position you're in. Obviously, closer to finance is better, but you might try being, this is a nice little hack, and if I had to do things over again, I would probably do this. Try being an assistant

to someone who is higher up in the company, which would get you in on the real stuff. Have you ever noticed, Jason, and I don't know if Strive, not Starve has seen this just because he's outside the corporate world, but have you ever noticed that there'll be somebody in middle management, But in a way, they're kind of subordinate to the CEO's assistance or secretary or like, you know, so when I, I'll go to a company here in Silicon Valley and it'll be like, like stripe. Okay. And the assistant to Jack Dorsey, that person is in many ways more powerful, more clued in on what's going on in the company than somebody who's right beneath the C-suite in a lot of ways. because they're sitting next to freaking Jack Dorsey and managing his schedule.

They know all the meetings. They're taking notes in the meetings. They're on the plane with them. They know more about what's going on in the company than pretty much anyone else other than the CEO and other people in the C-suite that are there doing the work. So if you can become an assistant to somebody who's higher up in the company, it doesn't even have to be the CEO.

This could be some sort of deputy manager, blah, blah, blah, in the financial area. That will get you in on the real stuff. Even if you're only adjacent to the deal, you're not working on the deal yourself, you can make your desire known, hey, look, I eventually want to be in your position or near your position or working in your office other than this. And that person will probably want to help you when you show promise because it's hard to hire. This is much better most of the time than working really far underneath the deal, but in finance.

So it's better not to be sort of a spreadsheet monkey at the bottom of the food chain for too long. if you can also, if you have the option to be somebody who's in the room when the deal is being made. Yes, it's good to know the mechanics of the deal. So if you're doing spreadsheet stuff, that has its purpose. But you're going to move up faster, in my opinion, and from what I've seen, if you have some of that experience, but you also are in the room. I think being in the room is just very, very important when it comes to this. I hope that makes sense. The other bit of advice I would say is keep studying blockchain intensely, if that's what you're interested in. If possible work for a blockchain company, even a startup. I don't even know if there are non-startup

blockchain companies other than like Coinbase. IBM has an entire blockchain division. So there are major companies that are investing in blockchain nowadays. Yeah, yeah, it might be tough to get into IBM's blockchain department, but you never know. But work in the industry, always, because that brings you that extra step closer. It'll breed experience you need, plus it will give you connections in that world, plus it gives you an excuse to reach out to other people in that industry. Hey, I'm working for IBM's blockchain division and I wanted to see if you wanted to grab lunch and talk about blockchain stuff. I know you're doing the stealth startup, da-da-da-da, whatever. And best of luck smoothing out corruption in Latin America. You've got your work cut out for you.

All right. Recommendation of the week. Jason, what are we talking about here? The Gateway podcast. I found this, it's a six-part investigative journalism podcast that comes from Gizmodo, of all places, go figure. And it's interesting. This guy, Jenning Brown, spent a year investigating this internet spiritual, spiritual guru, Teal Swan. Have you heard of her? No, it already sounds loopy, but go ahead. This thing is incredible. It goes all over the place from false memory implantation,

back from like, you know, the satanic panic of the 1980s when everybody thought that there was like these satanic cults that were eating babies and like just police investigations into suicide. And I've never heard of this woman until this podcast, but she's got a massive, massive global following. And the whole thing starts out with, you know, is she a cult leader or not? And the more you listen to it, the deeper it goes. And if you can say somebody is certifiably insane, this woman, Teal Swan, is certifiably insane.

You have to listen to this. It's only six parts, and it just wrapped up with episode six. And I binge this in, like, you know, one walk in the afternoon. And it's incredible. It's called The Gateway. This sounds creepy. It's kind of like, what was it, wild, wild country with the, the Swami that we watched not too long ago.

It's kind of like that, but much more dangerous and much creepier. So I would definitely check this out. It sends chills up my spine whenever I see a video of her talking. It's like, this woman is insane. Yeah. MFN insane. And she has a massive following, and she's very dangerous. That's scary.

Yeah. Yeah, that is scary. I like stuff like this. I mean, it's a real life sort of cult, right? And it's happening right now. She is like at the peak of her popularity right now. So this is one of those things where it's happening in real time, not something that happened back in the 80s and we're looking at historical footage.

You can go to her YouTube channel and her Facebook group and see new stuff every day. And what do you mean hypnotic self-help YouTube? She's trying to hypnotize people watching them? No, no. She's just got these crazy backgrounds that are going and she wears funky hippie clothes. And it just kind of, it's just got to see it to believe. it. It's really hard to explain. Yeah, I'll check that out. I'm interested in stuff like that, as you know. I wanted to get a cult researcher on here. These people are hard to reach, which is strange.

And a lot of the ones that infiltrate cults, they do not want to come on the show. They don't want to go on any show, which I find disappointing. But I also understand it. A lot of them are traumatized. They retire and they never want to talk about it again. Yeah, absolutely. Which I think is understandable, but also kind of a huge bummer. And for safety reasons, too. There's that too. Yeah, there's that too. These are not well-liked people when they go in and dismantle cults full of crazy people. Yep. All right. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. And don't forget, you can email us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com to get your questions answered on the air. We're happy to keep you anonymous. We always do. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Quick shout out to Jules Bradley in the UK. They just found the new show from the old, had some kind words for us.

And John R., who offered us some free pizza. He's the manager of a pizza my heart, which is an award-winning pizza place in the Bay Area near where we live. I'm definitely going to hit you up on that. I've been, look, I hate to admit it, but I've been eating a lot of pizza lately. It's so good. Man, oh, man. It's so good. Get back to the gym.

Oh, I've been doing that, too, but my cousin lives with me now, and his favorite food is pizza, and he's 20. So he can just, like, eat a pizza twice a day, and he's like, what? I'm fine. I'm like, yeah, you're still 112 pounds. I, on the other hand, am now also 112 pounds heavier than I was when you moved in. But, yeah, it's whatever. Thanks for the pizza. I'm going to hit you up on that.

Oh, and my family's coming to visit. And all they eat, they're from Michigan. So all they eat are like burgers, pizza, ribs, and, you know, Michigan food. Sorry, Michiganers. You know what I mean, though. All right. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Jordan Harbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show.

Jason, tell them where to find you. I'm on Instagram at JPD. Twitter is J.P.Deaf, and you can check out my other podcast, grumpy old geeks out every Monday. Sometimes. Almost. Sometimes every Monday. Almost, yeah. Keep sending in those questions to Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

Remember, keep them concise if you can. That makes it a lot easier for us on our end. And share the show with those you love and even those you don't. We've got a lot more in the pipeline. Very excited to bring it to you. A lot of really cool stuff coming up in the future. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the next. the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time. This episode is sponsored in part

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