The Jordan Harbinger Show - 723: Should I Relive the Drama of Childhood Trauma? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

It didn't bring back any particularly traumatic memories when your older brother confessed that he molested you when you were children. Would it be worth the possibility of dredging up a painful past through therapy to heal wounds you aren't even aware you've been carrying, or should you just shut this confession out of your thoughts and hope the memories remain unattainable? We'll try to find an answer to this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/723 On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Is it worth dredging up repressed memories of childhood abuse in therapy, or should such trauma stay buried and forgotten? Is it unreasonable that the respect you've had for your friend of 20 years dwindles the further down the woo-woo rabbit hole she falls? You inappropriately used humor in an attempt to defuse a traumatic event from your coworker's past. Now this person will barely speak to you, and you've even gotten the cold shoulder from some of your shared peers. You feel guilty; how can you make this right? You married the mother of your children for the sake of convenience and health insurance, but you've never been a good fit for each other — and the situation's not improved over time. A divorce would be ideal for you, but would it be right for the kids? One of your wife’s friends from high school just died. You want to be supportive of her in her time of grief, but you're not sure how to authentically mourn someone you don't even know. Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi. Sign up for Six-Minute Networking -- our free networking and relationship development mini course -- at jordanharbinger.com/course! Miss the conversation we had with Hollywood leading man and musician Dennis Quaid? Catch up with See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to checkout is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the dose of Fair Trade Ashwaganda, lowering your blood pressure around all these life crises, Gabriel Mizrahi.

On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave.

our mission on this show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show on Fridays, that's today, we give advice to you, we answer listener questions the rest of the week. We have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week, we had Jason Pfeiffer on why we fear change and fear new tech.

technology. He and I go way back. This is kind of a fun one. He's a great speaker. Editor and chief of Entrepreneur Magazine as well. He put me on the cover once, and that's all you really need to do to get him my good graces for life. And Brian Brushwood from the vault on scams and the psychology of fraud and deception. Always a favorite topic here on the show. So make sure you've had a look and a listen to everything that we created for you here this week. As always, there's some fun ones and some doozies. And I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag. Dear Jordan and Gabriel,

a few years ago, my older brother and I were chatting about our relationships, and he said he was happy to hear that I was in a healthy relationship and that I'm totally accepting of my sexuality and my sex life. He told me that he worried about that sometimes because when we were little, he molested me. This caught me totally off guard. I suddenly remember tiny flashes of sexualized moments with my brother,

but nothing that was too crazy, more just like kids exploring their body, and being curious. But in the same moment, I was also freaking out. Like, holy shit, what? What is he doing? What is he talking about? I quickly shut the conversation down,

told him that I don't really remember what he's talking about, that I'm fine. And he doesn't have to feel guilty that I really don't want him to hold on to that anymore. And I don't want to talk about it again. He checked that I was sure I didn't want to talk about it and then dropped it. We haven't talked about it since.

The problem is, I haven't been able to stop thinking about what he said for years. Although I have a loving and supportive partner who brings me great pleasure and is super understanding, I have a lot of difficulty being vulnerable during sex, and it's rare that I climax. There are also certain positions or movements that instantly take me out of the moment, and I totally shut down. Now I can't help but think that these might be related to events from my childhood that I blocked out. At the same time, I don't really remember what my brother was alluding to, and I'm not sure if I want to. For the most part, I don't think it plays a big role in my life.

And while I'm totally a fan of therapy and working through things from the past, I do both. I don't want to give weight to something that doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. I'm not sure I agree with digging up something from the past and potentially traumatizing myself just for the sake of acknowledging that it happened to me. My fear is that it will severely affect my current sex life, which I'm really happy with. On the other hand, part of me wonders if there's more to what happened than just a few flashes that I had. I'm aware that I could be avoiding my past out of fear and shame. Should I be more intentional about digging up my past to see how it could be affecting me now? Should I go back to my

brother and ask him to elaborate on what happened? And should I potentially ruin my relationship with my boyfriend for the sake of knowing more about what happened to me as a child? Signed, aghast at this past, but steadfast that it didn't last. Wow. All right. Well, first of all, I want to Thank you for being so open with us here. This is very intense stuff that you're sharing. I can imagine how vulnerable it must be to even confront this, let alone talk about it with us. Being abused as a child or experiencing something on the abuse spectrum. I know this case is somewhat ambiguous. Going through something like that is very intense and very, yeah, confusing. What happened? What didn't happen? What's impacting me now? What's not really playing a role in my life? It's a lot to process.

And I just want to say that I really admire that willingness on your part. I don't know. I would probably just ignore it. But not that that's what you should do. That's just what I think most people would do, including me, at least in the beginning. So it doesn't surprise me that you went that route. It's interesting, Gabe, like a lot of the letters we get on the show, there's this huge conflict here.

I don't remember. I suddenly remember. I quickly shut this conversation down. I can't stop thinking about what happened. I don't want to give weight to something that doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Actually, it might be showing up in my sex life now. But I'm also really happy with my sex life. But also, I just might be too afraid and ashamed to go near this topic.

Who knows? It's like the two angel the devil on your shoulder. Yeah, you can almost hear the two halves of her battling it out in this letter. Exactly. And it's interesting. She's already onto herself. She goes to therapy. She's willing to do this kind of work.

She's aware she could be avoiding her past. But she's still paralyzed. And given what she's been through, I actually think that that's very normal. Like I said, it takes a lot of courage to even be. considering this. It's one of those maybe let sleeping dogs lie kind of situations. And I understand that gut reaction as well. But look, we're not experts in this area. We wanted to talk to an actual expert. So we reached out to Dr. Aaron Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show. I'm also known to the people who know me the best as the fucking doctor. And Dr. Margolis confirmed

that what you went through, whether it was overtly malicious or more innocent, that's a uniquely violating experience. As Dr. Margolis put it, an experience like this, it can send the signal that the people who are supposed to love and protect you can become the people who hurt you. And that's a really confusing message for a young person. It can confuse the attachment system. It can create a lot of shame. And down the line, in many cases, it can make you think that feeling pleasure or finding yourself in a vaguely similar situation, that that's somehow wrong. And I'm not saying you necessarily feel that way all the time, but when you said that certain things in bed could lead you to shut down, it's not hard to wonder whether there might be some connection between what happened

to you as a child and what you're experiencing with your partner now. So Dr. Margolis's perspective on whether to explore your past after an experience like this is, yes, that would be a good idea. because the reality is this clearly is affecting you, whether you know it or not. I know you said you're not sure you agree with digging up the past. You might just retramatize yourself, but you're already traumatized, or at least profoundly affected by this experience. So I'm not sure talking about this in therapy is going to make you more traumatized. But as Dr. Margolis explained, it is possible that things could get harder before they get

better, because that's actually the nature of working through trauma. But Dr. Margolis also pointed out that one of the things that maintains the symptoms of disorders and distress is avoidance. So if you continue to avoid this topic, it could easily lurk in the background of your life. It might continue to show up in your relationships, in bed, in your mind, possibly in ways you don't even realize. I mean, look, you said it yourself. You haven't been able to stop thinking about this for years.

That's a very clear sign that there's something unresolved here. you already know the more you try to suppress something, the more power it has over you, the more time and energy goes into thinking about it or trying not to think about it. But finally working through it, that might free up a ton of mental, emotional energy. The fear and shame you described, I think those are real, and I agree that they're making it hard to address this. But those feelings, they are absolutely worth working through. And I wouldn't be surprised if the fear and the shame were also playing a role in other parts of your life, possibly blocking you or holding you back in ways that you just might not fully appreciate yet.

So Dr. Margolis's general approach in situations like this, when you're ready, talk to your therapist. You don't have to start with your most traumatic memory. You can dip your toe in the water and go from there. You clearly have some ambivalence about bringing it up. And Dr. Margolis said that's a perfectly acceptable place to start just by acknowledging the conflict, expressing how hard it is to go near this and inviting your therapist to help you explore it.

She also recommends finding some good resources to help you cope as you work through this. Your boyfriend sounds like a really solid guy, somebody you trust. Maybe he can be a sounding board and a source of support for you as you go through this. But I would also look for a trusted friend. Maybe some support groups. There's books on this topic. There's a whole world of resources out there for somebody in your shoes. I'm so glad you brought up her boyfriend, Jordan, because he was,

really does sound like an important person in her life. That's like a central piece of this puzzle. And their relationship has some challenges, but it's also really supportive and loving. But I thought it was interesting in her letter. She actually asks, should I potentially ruin my relationship with my boyfriend for the sake of knowing more about what happened to me as a child? And I think that question already says so much about how she thinks about this event, because it's totally possible that by talking about what happened to her as a child, it could bring her closer with her boyfriend or it could give him a chance to step up and support her in a new way or to understand her better. Who knows? It could even make their sex life better if she could unpack and

resolve some of this unresolved trauma from her past. So I just wanted to call that out because I think I get the sense that she thinks that the deck is stacked against her or like the gun is loaded, so to speak. Like if I even go near this, I might lose my whole relationship with my boyfriend, but in reality, the opposite might be true. It might give her more clarity, more intimacy, more connectedness with the people in her life by going into the difficult past. Yeah, that's a really good point. I do think some of that anyway is the fear and the shame talking. As for your other question, should you ask your brother to elaborate on what happened,

Dr. Margolis's insight was that you might be getting ahead of yourself there. Your best bet is to probably talk about it in therapy first. Then you and your therapist can explore next steps together. Figure out if and when to talk to your brother, what your goal would be in that conversation. But my take is, you probably don't need him to elaborate in order to start making sense of this, especially if talking to him about this is still very painful. So there you have it.

The good doctor and the boys on the pod all think that the best thing you can do is start unpacking this. And I know how hard that must be. I know it's scary and unpleasant, but I do believe that that's where you're going to find the understanding and the relief that you're looking for. At a minimum, you'll find out whether these vague memories are really as impactful as they seem. But in all likelihood, you'll probably explore a ton of formative experiences and start to appreciate how they inform your life now. And I think that is hugely important no matter what. There are only good things on the other side of this. I really do believe that. And high on that list,

to Gabe's point, is an even closer, more honest relationship with your partner, which you obviously value a lot, not to mention a stronger relationship with yourself. So, yeah, I hope you get to do that. Big thanks, as always, to Dr. Margolis for her wisdom. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her and how she works at Dr. Aaron Margolis.com. That's DR. Aaron Margolis.com. You know what you'll never want to repress, Gabriel? The amazing deals from the sponsors that support this show.

We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. These conversations that keep me going, but the lights, unfortunately, those bills need to be paid by sponsors. So if you want to help support the show, please do check out the sponsors for yourself. Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals has a searchable page with everything. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well at Jordan Harbinger.com. So please consider supporting those who support this show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.

All right. What's next? Hi, Jordan Agabe. My best friend of over 20 years and I have supported each other through many major life changes. I adore her husband and her teenage daughter, and I can't imagine not having them in my life. The thing is, my friend has always been skeptical of mainstream medicine, questioning the motives of doctors and the government when it comes to things like vaccines and adding fluoride to the drinking water. Most recently, she refused to get the COVID vaccine, but thankfully, she did allow her daughter and her immunocompromised husband to get it. She knows that I support vaccination,

that I believe in science and the mainstream narrative. Over our friendship, she supported me without judgment and allowed me to be me. So I've tried to give her the same space to be herself. Two years ago, she signed up for an online Reiki training, then quit her retail job. Now she offers energy therapy and card readings and has started hosting classes where she teaches people to communicate with plants and angels. She also claims to have a team of angels that literally talk to her and guide her in her energy practice. You can't just have one angel, you know. No. You can't. That would be, you need a whole

squad. She's always claimed to be able to see ghosts and to feel and direct energy from plants, crystals, and the universe. Feel that eucalyptus energy. We tend to avoid these subjects so that we don't have to disagree with each other. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, right. Yeah, my eyes are actually stuck, rolled in the back of my head. Hold on. The thing is, I don't think she's succumbing to mental illness. I've always seen her as a smart, skeptical person. So I suspect that she knows her claims are bogus, but doesn't want to go back to working retail when people will shell out hundreds of dollars to watch her flip cards and talk bullshit. Even worse. I used to think she was just going crazy, but now I just realized she's a con artist. Got it. Which one is worse? That's an interesting question.

Definitely, I have my opinion here, yeah. But I'm conflicted about her work. On one hand, her clients are adults who pay for her services voluntarily, but on the other, she's taking advantage of people who could pay for a legitimate therapist who might actually help them. I now find myself pulling further and further away from her as my respect for her dwindles, but I don't want to lose my relationship with her husband and her daughter. How do I reconcile my love for my friend and her family with my increasing disdain for her profession? Should I let her know that I don't believe in her powers and her team of angels for my own peace of mind? Or should I just get over it in the interest of maintaining what's left of our relationship, signed Serving Some Serious Side Eye at my

one and only Rider die. Ooh, boy, this whole letter is just a smorgasbord of WTF nonsense. Yeah. If you listen to the show regularly, you probably already know how I feel about all of that stuff, the anti-science stuff, the angel stuff communicating with the universe, the Reiki healing. We actually did a whole skeptical Sunday about Reiki. That was episode 664.

And man, did I get a lot of hate mail from some goofballs, especially on that one. I'm obviously very skeptical about this type of stuff. I don't know about Gabe. You know, you live in L.A. You probably order organic Bajong tea from specialty retailers. Maybe you have a bit of a different angle here. Oh, I haven't told you about the Angels that talked to me? No, you did not mention that.

Yeah, I talked to Angels. It's not a big deal. It's just a thing in my life. Getting some big Josh energy right there. Yeah, they help me prep for Feedback Friday every week. So it's like a whole team over here. Oh, yeah, you're going to have that whole squad. I stand corrected.

This episode brought to you in part by the small army of cherubs floating around Gabriel's apartment. Seriously, this is a lot to accept. I won't get into all of your friends' beliefs here. Let's just put aside for a moment the fact that freaking Amber over here stirring her turmeric lattes with crystals and talking to her cactus or whatever, because that's not, that's not even really your question. Your question is... Take her for a cactus gal, huh?

For sure, a cactus gal. Yeah. I mean, she probably lives in an apartment. You can't put a whole lot of plants in an apartment. I'm seeing a lot of snake plants in this lady's apartment. Snake plants, yeah. Yeah. They are not very talkative snake plants.

Yeah, I would know. Your question is, how do you preserve a relationship with somebody who holds beliefs that are radically different from yours and who has values that are radically different from yours? Especially when those beliefs are about things you can't debate rationally. It's not like economics or philosophy where you can point to data or an argument. It's just, you know, I feel the vibes, man. It's really hard. It is, yeah.

So, first off, I think it's important to get clear on whether there's still a basis for this friendship that's deeper than these beliefs and practices. Can you guys still talk about meaningful stuff together? Can you laugh together? Do you still respect her perspectives outside of her work? Are you able to have a good relationship with her husband and her daughter that isn't infected by all this woo-woo stuff? If so, it'll be a lot easier to reconcile your love for her with your disdain for her profession. But it will probably require you to do some mental gymnastics. You might have to deliberately overlook Amber's beliefs or release the frustration you feel

or just stay away from topics that'll set you off. Just like that cousin at Thanksgiving who thinks Joe Biden is being played by an actor and wants you to buy his NFT collection or whatever. I hear you, Jordan, but that's a tricky dance because then you're sort of quarantining the friendship, no pun intended, to topics that are safe and you're censoring yourself from saying certain things or asking certain questions just to like keep the peace. And you're also sort of censoring the other person from saying certain things because you know it'll be super awkward. So then it's like, is that even a real friendship anymore? Yeah, it's a good point.

And I agree. If you have to do all of that, it might mean that the friendship just doesn't work anymore. But I do believe that there are certain relationships, and they can be good relationships that do function well on certain levels and just not so much on others. And maybe that's where these two are. The challenge, though, is when someone's career becomes an entire lifestyle and worldview. For example, you have a friend who has a traditional job. They come home at night and surf Reddit and get interested in zany conspiracy theories as a sort of casual hobby. Maybe you can overlook that, But when your friend is making medical choices for herself and her family that are informed by dangerous nonsense and or pseudoscience or believes that she really does have these supernatural powers

with no training and no evidence, no real evidence, or only wants to do Reiki sessions instead of a beach day or whatever, it just becomes a lot harder to dismiss. Yeah, that's true. Then it's in your face constantly, and it sort of is the entire friendship. Exactly. So again, is that all there is now? Or is there substance to this friendship beyond all this crap? Well, I have to say that's one point in favor of this friend.

She knows that the woman writing in supports vaccination, that she believes in science and the mainstream narrative, as she put it, and she supported her without judgment. So that might be the saving grace of this friendship. Sure, that's definitely encouraging, but is the woman writing in really able to respect her friend's choices too? Like she said, she feels like her friend is actually conning her clients, which is something we hadn't touched on yet, but probably is one of the more important elements here. Her respect for her is dwindling. And hey, I get it. I have the same reaction. But if outwardly you're like, we've been best

friends for 20 years, I love you, but in your head you're like, you're bad shit up your own ass and a total charlatan who's just ripping people off. You're a bad person. Then the whole friendship at that point, what is it? It's a lie. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a layer of deception, self-deception. Yeah, it's complicated. So look, there is another option here, which is to talk to your friend about all of this, her beliefs, her work, your skepticism, your concern about all of that. I know that probably seems scary, but it would be a really interesting test of this friendship if you said something like, listen, we've been friends for 20 years. I love you. I love your family. Our friendship means a lot to me, but there's something I've been struggling with, which is, I don't really understand

all of this stuff you're into now. If it makes you happy and it gives you meaning, great, I'm all for it, but I just don't know how to feel about the card readings. I don't know what to make of the fact that you have a team of angels in your apartment, that you talk to plants in the universe. Honestly, it's just hard for me to wrap my head around that. And it does bring up a few ethical questions for me. And the reason I bring this up is I don't want to walk on eggshells around you. I want us to be able to talk about everything. And I guess I'm a little confused because I've always seen you as a smart, skeptical person.

So it's hard for me to square that with you talking to angels and ghosts and using crystals and all that stuff. So help me understand, right? that kind of thing. Between us, how much do you actually believe in all of this stuff? What evidence do you have that you're able to do this kind of work? Do you have any qualms about what your clients are getting from you? Am I missing something? And then maybe you guys can have an open conversation about it. I know that seems risky. I know it seems like you're almost impugning her work or kind of like casually insulting it. But I actually think it would be fascinating to put her on the spot a little bit without being judgmental or aggressive. I mean, yeah, that would be interesting. But something tells me

Amber is not going to like that too much. Well, that's what's interesting about this, because Amber might be like, honestly, I get it. My work is kind of out there. And yes, I really do believe in this stuff. But I'm also kind of playing it up. My clients do expect that. But also, I really do help them. And the truth is, I'd much rather do this than sell T-shirts at Hot Topic.

You know she worked at Hot Topic. She either worked at Hot Topic or she worked at one of those stores that sell like bougie succulent arrangements. next to $200 coffee table books about following your bliss. I feel like you're just describing your apartment right now. Wow. Okay. I feel both seen and attacked at the same time.

Well, that is our mission here on Feedback Friday, and you are not exempt from that. Fair enough. I see what you're getting at, though. Like if Amber can actually engage, then she'll know whether there's a friendship worth salvaging. Yeah, exactly. Then you'll still have your reservations, but at least you guys can both acknowledge the truth, and there's an open line of communication. and that's the level on which your friendship survives.

Yeah. But if Amber gets super defensive and she goes on like a 40-minute diatribe about the paranormal and the Cups card and she can't even entertain your question, then that will tell you a lot. Then you'll know for sure that A, she's 100% identified with this new career and she's determined to defend it. And B, she doesn't have the self-awareness or basic respect to acknowledge another person's angle on it and just talk it out with you. And then I think you'll know more about whether you can reconcile your,

love for her with how she makes her money. I'm starting to like that approach, Gabe. It's an interesting litmus test for their friendship, because as long as she approaches her with curiosity and openness, Amber can't turn around and accuse her of being a hater or whatever. She'll actually have to go on record and explain some stuff. Right, exactly. But, you know, I do feel for this woman because there is more at stake here. If she and Amber end up parting ways, then she'll lose her relationship with the husband and the daughter, and that's tough. That's sad. Look, I hate to say this. I know it's but that might be the price she pays for holding her friend to certain ethical and rational standards or just, you know, standing by her values.

Yeah, but Jordan, to her, that's like losing a niece. It's like losing her brother-in-law. Like, that's a big sacrifice. Yeah, but what is she supposed to do? Pretend that her friend isn't nuts or a con artist so that she can come over for dinner and watch Love Island with the family. I mean, look, I'm all for avoiding drama, but it's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, okay.

It's a fair point. I guess it comes down to what's more important to her, being authentic. or being close with these people? I am with team authenticity, and I just find it hard, really hard to ignore a bunch of bullshit just because I have a history with somebody. That's just me.

She might have a different lens here. I say give that a shot. Just be prepared for whatever comes back and know that you might have to integrate some new data about your friend. But that's ultimately a good thing. Long term, to know how you feel about somebody and to prioritize them in your life accordingly.

So good luck. We're sending you, your friend, and her posse of angels are best thoughts. Gabe, I don't know. You know, I was thinking about this. What's worse, actually believing in a bunch of stuff that's totally kooky or not believing in it but still doing this because it's making you money? And my conclusion is really not believing it, but still doing it because it's making

you money. Because succumbing to cognitive bias and then turning it into a career and thereby reinforcing that cognitive bias, that's not great. You should be able to get around that, but it doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you a little bit misguided. And also, I recognize that maybe I'm being a little bit judgy here because some people might really be helped by that. They're really into it.

It gives them hope, whatever, yada, yada. But if you're just like, yeah, this is a bunch of bullshit, but look at these idiots who pay for it, then you're a bad person. You've got con artist. Right. Whether it's real or not, whether you believe it or not, you're just, yeah, it's like you're not treating your clients and your work with much respect if that's how you feel. Exactly.

It is such an interesting point because what are the clients getting out of it? I think the woman writing in is assuming the worst, which is that she's just pulling one over on these people, completely making up the card readings and just getting like 300 bucks by Venmo and just laughing her way to the bank. But if these clients are, I mean, look, even if it turns out that it's not really that real or whatever, but if these clients are getting interesting insights or they're making connections, I'm not saying it's better than therapy, but if they get something out of it, maybe fair enough, I think that matters too. Yeah. It's definitely not better than real therapy, but if it's giving people entertainment plus, okay, as long as everybody's intentions are in the

right place. I'm just not convinced that somebody who was skeptical their whole life and rational their whole life suddenly discovered this and it's like, let me throw everything I know about critical thinking out the freaking window. Oh, and thereby make a ton of money doing it? Oh, yeah, no, I totally believe in all this. I'm just very, I'm skeptical that she's no longer skeptical. I think she's at best willingly putting aside her critical thinking to make money and at worst is doing so because she knows she can make money doing it and she doesn't give a crap if it's real or not. That's what I'm worried about. And can you be friends with that person? I couldn't do it, but I also understand the predicament she's in. If you went kooky, I'd be like, ah, crap, what am I going to do?

Now I've got to replace my feedback Friday producer and something, something, get a new best friend, whatever. You can reach us at Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a whole lot easier. And if there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you need a new perspective on your life, love work. How to tell your dad that he's not actually your biological dad and you know about it even though he's on his deathbed. Whatever has you staying up bad night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I recently landed a truly incredible job. I really love my coworkers and one of them made a huge effort to connect

with me outside of work. We developed a friendship and ended up bonding over the fact that we had both experienced a very similar traumatic event in our past. I used to, you know, a joke-to-cope method with my past, and I've joked about this event around the office when the topic arises. My coworker always laughed and went along with it, so one day I made a light-hearted, but still off-color joke about her past. As soon as the words came out of my mouth, I knew I had gone too far. I immediately apologized, but the damage was done. Since then, she's avoided me almost completely, and I've noticed that a few other coworkers have also been cooler with me as well. It was was even briefly mentioned in my performance review. I don't think that management knows the specifics,

but it was still very rattling to know that the situation has made it that far up the chain. This coworker is someone I really admired, and she's also just an all-around wonderful person. We work on the same team, so day-to-day interaction is unavoidable. She's been extremely professional at work, but it's clear that things are badly damaged. It's been over a month now, and I still feel so guilty. Should I continue to give her space, or try to sort things out? and how do I handle the situation at work, knowing that this is the reason my other co-workers are distancing themselves from me, signed, removing this foot from my mouth without causing things to go south.

Ooh, this is a really interesting one, Gabe. I can picture exactly how this moment went down. You can almost see this colleague's face draining in the whole office just going dead quiet with the wide eye look around, who else heard that kind of thing. It's like that scene in Goodfellas or something. Totally. But before we dive in, Gabe, I'm so curious what this woman said to her. Same. I kind of want the tea here.

Yeah, I mean, maybe they both lost a parent or they were both in some kind of accident. Or maybe it was even darker, like an assault or something like that. And it was just really dicey to joke with her about it. Yeah, could be. In which case, I can't imagine why the colleague responded the way she did. I mean, that probably has more to do with some unresolved trauma on her end. Not this woman's fault really entirely. But still, you can understand maybe.

Yeah, but I got to say, I'm kind of. frustrated on this woman's behalf, the woman writing in. I mean, because she wasn't trying to be hurtful. She's cracking a joke, which is how she deals with difficult things. She saw real signs that this colleague was able to have a laugh too, and it just misfired. And yeah, she apologizes immediately. She obviously didn't mean anything by it, but now the colleague is holding it against her, and so are all these other people, and now their bosses know about it, which means people are talking, and the situation just really spun out of control. And that sucks. It sucks. I'm having the same reaction.

Like, okay, someone makes an off-color joke. They hit a nerve. It happens. If they apologize and they actually mean it, like, give them another chance. Like, this woman isn't malicious. She just put her foot in her mouth. And for reasons that were somewhat understandable, I'm with you. I'm feeling kind of protective of her.

Yeah, same. But whether it was justified or not, this is the situation she finds herself in. So here's what I would do. I would send this colleague a brief email and basically say, look, it's been a month. I still feel awful about what I said. I just want to sincerely apologize again. I know my joke hurt your feelings, and that just wasn't my intention whatsoever. I value our friendship.

I think very highly of you. And I'd really appreciate the chance to talk to you about what happened so we can work through it together, something along those lines. And I know you already apologized, but it's possible that she just needs to hear it again, a little more formally or in some different way for it to land. Hopefully she agrees to grab lunch or something, and then you guys can have a real conversation and just sort of hash it out. if this were me, I would ask her what it felt like when you made that joke. Give her a chance to

explain why this is such a tender spot for her and make a real effort to understand her. Then you're in a much better position to say, okay, I totally hear you. I get it. And again, I'm really sorry that my joke hurt you, but please understand, I wasn't trying to do any of that. You know that I joke about this stuff myself sometimes. That's just how I deal with difficult events. And now that I how you feel, I won't do it again. If I heard that, I would have a hard time not forgiving someone. Yeah, so would I. I agree completely. And that's a really nice approach. But I'm a little bit worried about the damage that's already been done with her other colleagues. Like, how is she supposed to fix things with management? That's rough. Yeah, it adds this whole unnecessary third dimension

to the whole thing. I mean, look, she could just tell her bosses what happened and tell them she patched things up with this woman. I know that's even awkward. But if they're going to ding her for something like this in a performance review, then I think it's fair for her to set the record straight. Yeah, good point. In a way, that's actually easier than dealing with their other colleagues, because what does she do? Go up to them each individually in the kitchenette and say, you know, just so you know, Angela and I work this out. She's not mad at me anymore, so I'd really appreciate it if you start inviting me to happy hour again or whatever. It's just so high school. It is so high school. But workplaces are pretty high school sometimes, and you're right. That does seem petty. My gut

is telling me that she shouldn't try to win these people over, just focus on Angela. That's the relationship that she needs to repair. Right. Then when they see her and Angela yucking it up in the kitchen again, they'll probably drop the grudge and forget what happened. And if anyone asks, she can always explain the story what happened, but she doesn't need to do like a whole PR campaign. Yeah, yeah, it's exhausting even thinking about it. The best thing she can do is just patch things up with her and just keep being great at her job. The rest will eventually fall into its place on its own. And you know, if Angela is the one who gossiped about this whole thing to these other colleagues, which, by the way, not a cool move on Angela's part. That's part of the reason I'm mostly on this woman's side here. Angela will probably tell everybody that they're cool again. She seems to have a lot of influence in this office. She's well respected. So I'm guessing that other people in the office probably take her lead most of the time.

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm sure that office politics are playing a big role here. Again, so high school, but also very typical. So give this apology one more shot. If this woman still won't forgive you or let you back into the cool kids club, then you'll know you've done everything you can. And she's being unreasonable. And then you can focus on your work and trust that the two of you can be professional enough to just make that work. And for what it's worth, I hope you don't lose your sense of humor. You might have to dial it back a little at the office. Maybe you'll be. be a little more cautious when you joke around with new people. But being able to laugh at yourself and move through life with some levity, I personally think that's a superpower. So don't let this whole thing throw you. Hang on to that, at least for yourself. And good luck.

Gabe, I like to poke fun at people, especially myself. So whenever possible or whenever I'm not 100% sure something is okay, I just make myself the target of the joke instead of somebody else. And that's helped me avoid this kind of stuff in the past. And Jen has even said before, When I make fun of somebody, she's like, oh, that one maybe didn't go over as well.

Like some people were cringing. And I'm like, you know, the way to just never have to worry about that is to always, if I'm the target, then nobody else can really get mad. Sure. Yeah. But, you know, also what bothers me about this is like, everybody likes to laugh until it's their turn to be the butt of the joke. And then it's like, oh, no, it's, I'm very, that's not okay.

Beyond the pale. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why does this woman get to laugh at the woman writing in when she makes a joke about it, but when it's her turn, she can't. I mean, look, we don't know what she went through. Maybe her situation was different. Maybe she hasn't gone to therapy and talked about it yet. Maybe actually, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the thing that she didn't like was that other people were around. I was just thinking that, like, hey, we can joke about being kind of X, Y, Z, or having this

horrible thing happened to us in college, but I didn't want all 27 people on our floor to hear that now I've got to freaking be like, oh, she was just making that all up and joking. Totally. not a real thing that happened to me, everybody, awkward, head down. That's got to be a huge part of this. Also because this woman is very well respected, she has authority in the office. Maybe that's like a big problem for her for people to know this very delicate part of her past or to see her as the object of a joke in the workplace or something like that. I still think she's being unreasonable, but that could explain why she reacted the way

she did. And if so, that would be a great thing to talk about in that lunch meeting. Agree. You know who always tolerate your off-color jokes? The amazing sponsors that support this show. And we'll be right back. Thank you all for listening to and supporting the show. I really appreciate the fact that we get to do this for a living.

It's kind of a blessing. But this will all go down the toilet if we don't get support for our sponsors and the people that keep things running around here. No pressure. Just go to Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals if you want to help support the show. All the discount codes and the URLs and all that. They're all in one very searchable place. And it also works on your phone.

And if it doesn't, please email me. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well. So please consider supporting those who support us. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, Gabriel. Next up. Hey, guys. I'm 43 years old, and I've been married to my wife for five years. She's 11 years younger than me, and we now have two kids, a four-year-old who is born with special medical needs and a nine-month-old. We got married when we learned of her first pregnancy, and although we were never in love, it felt like the right thing to do, as we didn't believe abortion was an option, and I needed to get them both under my health insurance.

That's an auspicious way to start a marriage. Over the years, it's become clear we're not a good fit. We've become tolerable roommates rather than husband and wife, and the only thing we have left in common is our unwavering devotion and love for our children. I'm now left with a devoted mother who doesn't know how to be in a mature romantic relationship with real responsibilities other than the kids, but enjoys the comfort of the lifestyle I provided. I feel that my intellectual, emotional, and sexual needs have never been met,

and probably never will. We also don't value the same things, such as hard work, discipline, curiosity, fiscal responsibility, cleanliness, and a healthy lifestyle. Yikes. I recognize that being a stay-at-home mother is one of the most difficult responsibilities there is, especially with a child with special needs. So I give tremendous credit to my wife for that. But I don't think that that should be a reason to neglect herself or our relationship.

She's let herself go. She's developed a poor relationship with food over the years. She's gained a lot of weight to the point of developing hypertension and type 2 diabetes. Meanwhile, I exercise five times a week, read books, chase after personal and professional goals, and always try to self-improve. I believe I have a long life ahead of me and could find a better partner for me, but I dread the impact that divorce will have on the kids. But if I don't move on, I fear that I'll continue to be in an unfulfilling relationship

for the rest of my life, or at least till the kids are grown up. How can I choose between doing what's right for me and what's right for my kids, signed bearing the load of this brutal crossroads? Oh, man, this is a sad situation. You and your wife, you guys were sort of forced together because of this pregnancy. You probably weren't the right match. Your child was born with special needs, which, by the way, that's an extraordinarily difficult responsibility and probably places a whole other level of strain on this marriage.

Honestly, I feel for both of you here, especially for you, but of course for your wife too. Because the truth is, if she's neglecting her health and has a problematic relationship with food and is avoiding certain responsibilities, it's probably because she's wrestling with some painful stuff herself. Maybe around your first child's health, or around the state of the marriage, or around what she's envisioned for her life, or what she thinks she's capable of, who knows? I'm sure there's a lot going on there, and so I have compassion for her too, even if she's responding to her life in a way that makes things more difficult. But since you're the one writing in, let's focus on your side of the equation. The reality is, you guys just are not a good fit anymore, possibly never were.

That's a sad truth to confront, but them's the facts. And given what you've shared, I'm actually more concerned about what will happen to you and the kids if you stick around in this marriage than what might happen if you decide to live. leave. Now, I don't mean to be flippant about that. I know divorce is painful. It obviously does impact children. But as we've talked about on the show a bunch, I'm not convinced that sticking around in a bad marriage is better for the children than leaving, especially when you could be building a more fulfilling life on your own, chasing after these great goals of yours, being active, maybe finding a partner who's excited about those things too. I mean, you're 43. That's my age, essentially. You have so much time. You have a whole life addict. You have a whole life addict.

you. Really, I hope I do too. That's important. I don't think that sacrificing your happiness is actually going to serve anyone. Because really, what's better? Your kids having a dad who's modeling a healthy, fulfilling life for them, and has a decent relationship with mom but doesn't live in the house, or your kids having a dad who lives under the same roof, but gives one word answers at the dinner table and it's always walking around the house, just seething with resentment. I know you think you're hiding it, but you can't for a long and your kids are going to pick up on it. I just don't think that you're doing them a favor if this marriage is really over. Now, if the marriage isn't really over, then I would obviously encourage you and your wife to start talking about all of this,

possibly take it into couples therapy. But it sounds like you guys are beyond that, which is why I'm being so blunt here. Yeah, I'm with you completely, but I'm getting the sense that divorce is complicated for him. Something's holding him back here. Values my play a role, religion might play a role. I know they mentioned abortion wasn't an option, so I'm wondering if maybe that's part of the equation here. Culture obviously plays a role. Family plays a role, of course. If you grew up in a family where divorce was unspeakable

or where sacrifice and devotion were valued more than happiness, then of course you would feel a huge conflict about this. It's funny. The word devotion jumped out at me when you read the letter too. He said, the only thing we have left in common is our unwavering devotion and love for our children. And then he said that he's now left with a devoted mother. It's an interesting word to use twice.

Yeah, I think we're talking about a family where this idea of devotion is probably valued very highly. And to be fair, that is a huge part of being a parent. And it's absolutely crucial when you have a child with special needs. And also, I love that he appreciates this about his wife as well. He recognizes everything she's done for their family. He admires her for that. So he's not just discounting her here completely. But it sounds like that idea of devotion often comes at his own expense. Like, you have to stick with a situation that's not working because anything less would be morally wrong or dangerous or reckless. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not making fun of it. I grew up this way around a lot of Catholic folks. My dad grew up Catholic. It sounds very Catholic and possibly other religions as well to just be like, well, I'm suffering and I made this choice. So that's just the way it has to be. And I sort of sense that maybe this is going on there. I have no real evidence other than they said they didn't believe in abortion and they got married young. But I feel like that's probably playing a role. And I get that. I respect that. But that's what worries me here in a lot of ways. I mean, he literally said my intellectual, emotional, and sexual needs have never been met and

probably never will. Yeah, that is pretty stark. Pretty stark and pretty damn certain. It's so important in a marriage. At least to have a few of those, like, look, if things peter out in the bedroom later, because you have a bunch of kids, you can work on that stuff. But to be like, yeah, this was never a good fit for me. And here we are 20 years later. Like, dang, man. So that's my advice, our advice. I'm not saying you should pack your bags and leave tonight, but I would at least allow yourself to explore these thoughts and feelings and not shut them down out of a sense of obligation that might not truly be serving you or your family. But if you need some help doing that, hey, I would think about talking to a therapist, even if it's just for a few months to sift

through all this stuff. It's a lot to process, and I think it would be a big help to you. I would also go back and listen to episode 689, where we took a question. question, it was question three, by the way, from a veteran whose wife had cheated on him. He was thinking of sticking around for the kids, even though he was sure that it was over. His situation is very different from yours, but I think a lot of the ideas we talked about apply to your situation as well. So we'll link to that one in the show notes for you, of course. Again, I'm really sorry that you're at this point, but I do think there's a much happier road ahead and a more fair one to all of you and one that doesn't have to hurt your children as much as you

might think. So good luck. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. One of my wife's friends from high school just died. I'm religious, and I'm familiar with the phrase mourn with those that mourn. My problem is that I suck at that. In fact, my initial response to the news was to make a joke about it. I'm trying to work on this, but it's really hard for me to mourn when I have zero connection to the person who passed away. How do you help others when a friend or family member has died? How can I show my wife that her friend I've never met matters to me as well, signed sworn to mourn, but torn about how to be forlorn without inviting scorn. Oh, man. Well, first of all, I'm really sorry to hear that your wife's friend died. That's really tough. I don't know about you, Gabe. It scares me when I

hear about people our age dying because I'm like, that could have been me. And it's just, I never thought about that before kids or when I was younger. And now that I'm getting older and have kids, it's like, when people die my age, I'm like, oh my God. Life, man. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually very touching that you're reaching out to us to know how to be there for your wife right now. You know, grief is, it's such a complicated experience, right? There's no one way to do it. In a way, it's an experience that's made up of so many other experiences. There's a lot going on inside that process. And when you're on the outside, it can be hard to know exactly what to do or say for somebody who's mourning. So first of all, being there for somebody who's going through a loss and mourning the person you're yourself, those are two different things. You don't have to do both in order to be helpful to your wife right now. And I agree, it is hard to mourn someone that you had just had zero connection with, but there's no expectation that you have to feel a certain way toward this person. All you have to do is have a kind response, an authentic response, and your authentic response is, I didn't really

know this person, but my wife did, and this is a big loss for her, so I'm going to be there for her. And that's really all you have to do is be there. Sit with your wife while she's going through it. Invite her to talk about her friend if she wants. Listen, help her work through her thoughts and her feelings. Express remorse, empathize with her. Ask her what you can do to help or ask this friend's family, if that's appropriate. Even if it's something small like setting up the house or picking up food or coordinating with the friend group or whatever it is, again, you don't have to manufacture anything. That'll backfire anyway. It'll come across as clumsy and disingenuous. So to answer your question, how can I show my wife that her friend I've never even met matters to me as well? My take is,

you don't have to show your wife that. This friend matters to you because she mattered to your wife, and you want to be supportive of your wife right now. That's all you need to remember. Beyond that, I wouldn't really overthink it. Yeah, exactly. And if all else fails, you can always just ask your wife, hey, you know, is there anything I can do? Do you need anything? I'm kind of out of loss here. I don't know to help. I want to be helpful and let her tell you what you can do if there's anything to do. Totally. He doesn't have to be perfect. He just needs to be attuned available. Right, because it sounds like it's hard for him to know how to act during an intense time. I thought it was very interesting that his initial response to the news was to crack a joke about it.

Yeah, same here. That is 100% something I would have done when I was 23, by the way. Oh, yeah. Same here. But it's like the woman from question three, right? The one who jokes to cope. When something's uncomfortable, humor is a great way to deflect or distance or to just like deal. But it's interesting. Humor can often also be a way to cope with shame. Interesting. What do you mean by that? Well, I feel like he has some shame about not knowing what to do in a serious moment like this.

And it might be putting him in touch with something pretty intense to your point, Jordan, which is that we're all going to lose people we love and also we're all going to die one day. And so one way we deal with those thoughts is often to crack a joke, right? You feel that fear, your incompetence, self-doubt, just that vulnerability in general, and then you reach for a joke to put some distance between yourself and those feelings. Interesting. Yeah, he finds out his wife's good friend died somewhere in his mind. He's like, oh, crap, I have no idea what to say. This is so uncomfortable. I'm freaking hopeless at this.

And instead of going, oh, my God, honey, I'm so sorry. How are you feeling? What can I do? He tries to make light of the situation, which is actually a very normal response. Yeah, totally normal. I just bring it up as a thing. might want to explore if he wants to get better at this. You know, it's interesting. A year and a half ago, my grandmother died, as you know. It was a big loss. And it was amazing.

Like, the way our friends and family turned out over the following week was incredible. Like, the house was packed. People were cooking, cleaning up, pitching in. They were staying late. It was just really touching. And it made the whole experience not just doable for us, but like actually really special. And in a weird way, it was actually really fun. We still talk about that.

But when I think back on that week, I don't remember anybody doing anything, you know, quote unquote, like big. I don't remember any huge talks about life and death and what it all means. The main thing I remember was just a bunch of people being there and just doing very simple acts of kindness. And it made a huge impact on me. So I share that just to say that you don't need to overthink this. You just got to show up and just like look for what needs doing and do it. And that's enough. Sometimes that's the best way to help people who are mourning. I totally agree. Because even if you have the perfect thing to say to someone, somebody who's morning, at the end of the day, it's going to all be about those little gestures that you do.

That's what counts. So focus on that, and you'll be great. And again, I'm really sorry to hear about your wife's loss. I hope she's holding up okay. We're sending both of you good thoughts. You know, by the way, Gabe, this is somewhat relevant, maybe not so much, but I've read in, I think it was that, remember we read that book on mourning? This is ancient history now, but... Oh, yeah. One of the key takeaways from one of the chapters was that when somebody dies right away, this rush. The two weeks after, there's everybody's there, maybe even four weeks after, but like 10, 12 weeks after, everyone else has moved on and you're like, wait, I'm still really upset about the death of my friend, cousin, whatever it is. And so what the advice was was maybe be the person

that reaches out initially like everyone else, but also checks in 10, 12 weeks on because almost nobody's going to do that. They're kind of like, okay, I'm done. I'm good with it. It's like, well, no, this person's spouse died. They're still thinking about it three months. later, six months later. Right, right. She's going to be missing her friend for a while. So, yeah, the most valuable part might be down the line in a few months. Exactly. Well, hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody for listening. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Jason Pfeiffer and Brian Brushwood, if you haven't yet. Want to know how I managed to book all these great people for the show? I use software, systems, and tiny habits. And I know

you probably don't have a podcast, but it doesn't matter. You still want to network, right? A non-gross way to network and maintain relationships. Our six-minute networking course, is free. It's on the think-ific platform at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them. Do not try to make them after you need them. That's the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago. This has been very crucial for my business and my personal life. Again, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. A link to the show notes for the episode is at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes, advertisers, deals, and discounts, all those little codes. They're all at Jordan Harbinger.com.

slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support us. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi or on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show has created an association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, never was a good lawyer, so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Dr. Margolis's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate

an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. I wanted to give you a preview of my conversation with the legendary Dennis Quaid. We got into rejection both in Hollywood and outside, and how he brings his characters to life on screen. This is really a fun episode. I think you're going to dig it. I didn't know at the time if I wanted to be an actor. That was back during the time where I wanted to be a veterinarian and or a

forest ranger. Forest ranger. You'd be flying flyers right now. Yes, I would. I'm evacuated from my house right now. Are you really? I saw the smoke when I flew in this morning. And our flight originally was canceled and I was like, you got to give me to L.A. I got Dennis Quaid coming here and can't stand him up for this bullshit fire. You use a lot of different accents in many of your films.

I'm curious how you learn and practice those. My brother and I grew up doing impersonations like Ed Sullivan and John Wayne and, you know, everybody that was around us. So I big up on accents badly even. You know, like in India, I would be talking just the way. Are you the guy that hears one on TV and then spends the rest of the week annoying everybody in the house? I'm preparing secret.

So like, you're in the shower going, One more gin, one more, gin. I can't get her to cool, captain. That one's awesome. That's definitely good. There's a reason you get paid the big bucks for these, and I don't. That's for sure. I know music's a big part of your life.

You wrote a few songs for three of your films. Been in a band for like 20 years. Same guys. Same guys. For 19 years this Halloween. Oh, happy band anniversary. Well, that's really good. You can steal that.

I definitely think I just made that up just now. Really? Yeah. I've never heard. I've also never heard. Wow, it just came out. Yeah. See what happens when you're like.

Is it true that you play with your band in Bear Feast? Yes, when we first started out. The Beast boys, they don't wear shirts. I won't wear shoes. For more with Dennis Quaid, including how he uses fear to stay motivated, check out episode 279 right here on the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show,

you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not.

The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that, I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know

wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.