The Jordan Harbinger Show - 809: Crystal Healing | Skeptical Sunday

Episode Date: March 12, 2023

The crystal industry generates over $1 billion per year. But what exactly do crystals do? Some have said they store energy. Others say they have healing powers. But what does the science say? Welcome to Skeptical Sunday, a special edition of The Jordan Harbinger Show where Jordan and fact-checker, comedian, and podcast host David C. Smalley break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up, and debunk common misconceptions. On This Week's Skeptical Sunday, We Discuss: Over the last five years, the number of Google searches for "crystal healing" has more than doubled — fueled, in part, by celebrity endorsements from the likes of Katy Perry, Kate Hudson, and Adele, who has been known to clutch one during performances to combat stage fright. A Himalayan pink salt lamp — marketed as having mood-boosting properties — was one of Amazon's best-selling home-improvement products over the 2017 holiday season among its Prime subscribers. Different crystals are said to possess certain powers — from bloodstone (which purports to improve circulation) to citrine (for enthusiasm and creativity bolstering) to sapphire (to prompt prosperity). According to Pew Research, whether you're the most staunch Christian or consider yourself "religiously unaffiliated," there’s a 62% chance that you believe in at least one New Age belief —including crystals storing energy. This probably accounts for the crystal industry raking in more than $1 billion per year. Is this all a load of poppycock, or does science lend any credibility to claims that crystals are anything but pretty rocks imbued with perfectly normal rock powers? Connect with Jordan on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. If you have something you'd like us to tackle here on Skeptical Sunday, drop Jordan a line at [e-mail] and let him know! Connect with David at his website, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, and make sure to check out The David C. Smalley Podcast here or wherever you enjoy listening to fine podcasts! If you like to get out of your house and catch live comedy, keep an eye on David's tour dates here and text David directly at [phone] for tickets when he comes to your town! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/809 This...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Start your free trial today. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger, and this is Skeptical Sunday, A special edition of the Jordan Harbinger Show where fact checker and comedian David C. Smalley and I break down a topic that you may have never thought about, open things up and debunk common misconceptions. Topics such as why the Olympics are kind of a sham, toothpaste, chem trails, recycling, expiration dates, and tipping, banned foods, a whole lot more. Normally on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes organized by topic that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on this show. Topics like persuasion and influence, China, North Korea, negotiation, communication,

crime and cults and more. Just visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash start, or take a look in your Spotify, apt to get started. Today on this episode of Skeptical Sunday, the crystal industry, words I never thought I would have to say, generates over a billion dollars per year. But what exactly do they do? Some have said they store energy. Others say they have healing powers, but what does the science actually say? On this skeptical Sunday, let's get to the bottom of it with comedian fact checker David C. Smalley. I'm excited, Jordan. This one's going to rock. Ah, starting already with the

puns, eh? All right. A billion dollars. A billion dollars. I can't imagine. people spending that much money on crystals? Well, you've clearly never done stand-up comedy for drunk hippies in San Francisco. I've seen a billion dollars worth in a single night. So many people have crystals. And for the most part, those people are like positive, loving, friendly people who just talk about like inner peace and yoga. Like, they're not terrible people. So, like, I want everyone to know, we're not insulting anyone here today.

You're lovely people. but we are fact-checking the claims surrounding crystals. Let's just be clear about what we're doing. I think we're going to accidentally insult people, but we're not doing it on purpose. And I know that- Great way to put that. Yeah, because with Reiki, we were like,

oh, we're going to kind of make fun of you, and people were like, you're terrible, and I hate you now. And I thought, maybe we've been over the line, but also what you think is real is totally fake. All right. So let's start with the healing. I see, I already did it.

Already. Let's start with the so-called healing aspect of crystals. What does the medical community I have to say about this? Okay, so they're being forced to talk about it because so many people are doing it and they're getting really popular. So WebMD finally addressed the medical use of crystals in 2018, and they went beyond just like facts

of science versus belief and things like that. They actually explored the cultural aspect. And they write, and I'm quoting from WebMD, Google searches for crystal healing have more than doubled in the past five years, fueled by endorsements from celebrities like Katie Perry, Kate Hudson, and Adele who clutches one during performances to fend off stage fright. Aw, that makes me go, ah, because she's so amazing. She's amazing. Who doesn't love Adele? The fact that she has stage fright is very strange to me, but I guess it doesn't know. I know. Right. And by the way, I haven't fact checked that portion. I don't know if it's true, but that's what they say, you know, that she clutches that. Yeah, interesting. Himalayan salt lamps marketed as mood boosters and magnetic brakes. And magnetic brakes,

bracelets build as pain relievers are easily found on Amazon and at Walmart. A Himalayan pink salt lamp was one of Amazon's best-selling home improvement products. Over the 2017, yes, home improvement. Over the 2017 holiday season among the company's prime subscribers. I want to know how crap your home is when a home improvement addition is a Himalayan pink saltline. Usually that takes things down a peg in my opinion, but it depends on the circumstances of your dwelling. Right. All right. So what you're saying is, I might have gotten a big money Joe Rogan deal

for this podcast if I had just decorated my studio with some overpriced stalactites. Got it. Yep. Yep. Yep. Or stalagmites. I think no matter which way they're pointing, I think you can rock it. We are agnostic about which way they have things grow. No, it's the Joe Rogan deal that I want. Yeah, they go on to say alternative healing centers from San Francisco to New York City are bursting with well-educated millennials from the real estate finance and tech industries, and they pay big bucks per hour for a session of crystal healing. Okay. Well-educated folks going to a crystal healing center. Okay. So does WebMD think there's anything at all to this concept? Sort of, but not for the reasons the crystal healers want to hear. So psychologists do advise,

who is the author of believing in magic, the psychology of superstition, says that he believes that placebo effect is almost certainly at play here. And WebMD quotes him as saying, and this is a very important distinction, he says, the mere act of doing something to take control of your destiny can often boost hope, brighten your mood, and improve your ability to cope with a chronic condition. And by the way, the same is true for prayer, meditation, or even just a self-pep talk.

and it can definitely help the situation to get your mind right and take control of your own destiny. So let's explore it and just see where the evidence leads. It's obviously a thing that could work for some people. So I've heard that different crystals are supposed to do different things. Did you come across that in your research or are all crystals created equally stalactites or stalagmites aside? Yeah. So I have a list here that I want to read for people in case you've ever wondered what the crystals are supposed to do and what we're going to kind of be fact-checking today. So there's a clear quartz, which is just a clear crystal, considered a master healer, believed to support the entire energetic system, which we'll get into. Jasper, which is a nurturing stone, said to provide support during times of stress. A side note that I believe weed and whiskey are also said to do the same thing.

Obsidian believed to help process emotions and experiences and aid in letting go. Also a function of whiskey. Indeed. Yeah, my dad was on whiskey and let go when I was about six. Oh, dark. Amethyst used for healing, purifying, and enhancing willpower. I mean, enhancing willpower sounds like a good replacement for methamphetamines. Depends on the price.

Please tell me the amphetamines part was actually on WebMD, though. No, I, no, that one's all mine. Oh, okay. I did have to sneak that in. But Bloodstone is one two. It's said to improve circulation and provide support to blood-related issues. And then there's a whole section of healing crystals for wealth. And it's interesting that they use the word healing, but they're talking about wealth.

Healing crystals for your American Express card. Or no, you're like, man, my bank account is sick right now. It's just my bank account got COVID. Need a little wave of crystal over it. Oh, man. So these are Tiger's Eye. It's said to provide motivation and reduce fear. Citrine, believed to spark enthusiasm, creativity, and concentration.

turquoise thought to soothe emotions and attract good luck. Sapphire, known as a stone of prosperity, and then jade, which is another one well known for prosperity and luck. And then there are healing crystals for love, the last category. So rose quartz, these are really the most popular. A lot of women have these pinkish, dark red, really beautiful crystals. That's super popular one, rose quartz. It's sometimes referred to as the Stone of Love.

and believe to encourage love and trust. Then you've got the Moonstone said to prompt feelings of inner strength and growth. And then finally, the Ruby, which is believed to support sexuality and sensuality. I believe the kids call that Molly. Yes, the kids call that MDMA. All right, so these certainly sound like a panacea. So they just work naturally? Is that the idea?

Oh, no, Jordan, don't be silly. You have to charge crystals or they won't work. Ah, okay. So you got to wash. them off. You got to burn some sage. Some people leave them in the sunlight or the moonlight overnight to absorb the energy. And then, of course, high vibration tones like humming on your crystals or playing loud tones can also charge them. So you're telling me to hum on my crystals. Yeah. That's my new... Go hum your crystals, Jordan. That's my new favorite insult. I don't want

somebody to leave me alone. Go home your crystals. People are spending a billion dollars a year on this. I suppose this isn't, that's sort of no longer a fringe thing. I got to say, if I go to a barbecue and we can't use the fricking back deck because some turd is charging their crystals on it, I'm out of there and taking my brisket with me. Well, the good news is I don't think there's a lot of crossover between the crystal and brisket communities. It's vegan brisket, okay? If it's vegan brisket, you might have a fight on your hands, but I doubt they'd give a damn.

So according to Pew Research, whether you're the most staunch Christian or religiously unaffiliated, there's a 62% chance that you'll believe in at least one new age belief, including the idea that crystals can store energy. If you're an atheist, that plummets to 13%. So it's very low, but there are still a significant number of atheists who also believe that crystals can store energy. And crystals seem to be, for the most part, for those who are energy-based, spiritual but not religious, or somehow in tune with the universe. Okay, so for those who claim that crystals have healing powers, how do they say it works? So the basic concept is that all things in the universe have a specific energy frequency, right? We could probably agree with them

that everything's got some level of energy, even if it's just atoms or molecules or whatever. Right, moving around, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they claim that everything has a specific frequency. Okay. And that crystals have a stable and strong frequency that can help other frequencies realign. if it gets out of whack. So like let's say if something is is vibrating in a certain frequency and then it gets damaged or broken and the frequency is off, you can put a certain crystal next to it and the crystal is extra strong so it can help kind of realign that specific energy. Okay. So let's say that happens with a person. The idea is that human beings have what they call chakra points throughout your body that can affect different ways you feel and then by placing

a crystal near that chakra, it can be realigned and your problems go away. That's a, okay, I can see why, I know I'm going to regret this, but what's a chakra exactly? Okay, yeah, you're definitely going to regret it. So, oddly enough, Healthline actually covers this in detail. So in Sanskrit, the word chakra means disc or wheel. So when I say chakra, imagine a little wheel or a little spinning circle inside your body. And the idea refers to an energy center. So like in your body, certain different aspects of your body,

you're going to have these little wheel spinning. And they're spinning energy that correspond to certain nerve bundles in major organs. And to function at their best, your chakras need to stay open or balanced. They kind of use both terms. Sometimes they'll say your chakras are out of balance or in balance or open or closed or damaged or something like that. And if they get out of balance, you may experience physical or emotional symptoms related to a particular chakra.

So depending on what your symptoms are when you go in to see one, of these folks, they'll be like, oh, that's your, you know, whatever, whatever, gallbladder, or 21 gallbladder, whatever. And they'll be able to know what your problem is because you said, I'm sad about this, or I'm anxious, or I have stomach problems, or my foot hurts, or whatever. And they can assign that to a certain chakra, and that's how they know where to place the crystal. There are seven main chakra points or chakras that run along your spine. They start at the root or the base of your spine, and they extend up to the crown of your head. So imagine seven wheels in between the base of your spine and the crown of your head.

It's like metaphysical or are people thinking they're actually in your body? Like if you disassemble somebody, which sounds really gross, can you see it or is it just like it's metaphysically in your body, but not really? So there's a little bit of argument about that as far as what would be considered it. Perhaps we don't recognize it. Some will say it's metaphysical and that's the easy way. You know how when you talk to more staunchly religious people versus more liberally religious people is like, I don't take the Bible literally.

I just have a personal relationship with God. That type of mindset in the chakra world immediately goes, oh, it's all metaphysical. But there are some hardcore fundamentalist type people who will be like, no, they're in there, we just haven't found them yet. Or they're microscopic or, you know, some other argument. You can only see it in the fourth dimension or something, right?

I don't know. You know, with the third eye, with the third eye, or only if you're open to it and if you're not, then it's not going to be visible to you, things like that. Okay. Now, so there's seven, but some people believe you've got a hundred,

14 chakras in the body. Okay. So they've got to be tiny, if that's the case. Sure. But we don't take those people seriously. They're crazy. Everyone knows there's only seven. Right.

So these chakras, David, can we see them? Are they in the room with us right now? Of course, but you can only see them with a spiritual eye. Okay. Which means just imagine it, bro, and there it is. Of course. With the magic eye that sees things that we wish were there. Okay, I need an example.

How can my chakras become out of balance and what happens when it does? Okay, so the main seven are the crown, the third eye, throat, heart, solar plexus, sacral, and root. The root chakra is located at the base of your spine. It provides you with a base or foundation for life. It helps you feel grounded and you're able to withstand challenges if that's in balance. Your root chakra is responsible for, let's say, your sense of security, your stability, things like that. So if you're feeling uneasy or you're anxious, it's not because you have something to worry about or an important. meeting coming up, it's because your root chakra is out of balance. That's the whole concept.

And how did it get out of balance? Too much cheese. I don't know. I'm trying, Jordan. I'm doing my best over here. Healthline says it like this. They say that personal habits such as poor physical alignment or posture. As we both straighten up in our chairs. Yeah, okay. Eating unhealthy food or self-destructive behavior may cause a chakra to be imbalanced. Then I think at that point, it's like a wobbly tire. You're just thumping down the road like a maniac and you need to pay a specialist to realign and unblock your wheels.

Like the Reiki people we covered a few episodes ago that everyone got mad at us about. Okay. Yes. Yeah, they love crystals. And that's part of what they do, is that realignment of the chakras using crystals. Oftentimes they'll lay crystals on people

as they wave their hands over and it's supposed to be like a tufer, you know. Yeah, well, why not? Anyway, the idea is to restabilize that energy field and, you know, realign your wobbly wheels and then you're good to go. So, although it really doesn't address why there would be crystals for wealth, unless some of your chakras are also crypto miners and getting knocked offline or something. I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense.

I get, look, I'm tempted to start shredding this already, but first, what do scientists have to say about this? Okay, so I came across Dr. David Hamilton, who explains the science behind how crystals actually work. Okay, so doctor? Yeah. Okay. Like a Medical doctor? Oh, God, of course not. Okay, so PhD of something. Nailed it. Okay, so PhD of what? And no bullshit's not acceptable.

Crystal geology. That's the logical. Were you trying to find the word crystallology for a second? I was like, crystal oliv. Wait, there's a word for somebody who studies rocks and things in the earth. What is the name of that person? You know, like the American Christological survey. The guys who, they look for volcanoes.

and stalagmites and stuff. Yeah, geology. So if a legit geologist came forward with evidence of crystal healing, we're doing a follow-up episode filled with apologies. Right, where I'm eating every hat in my closet, yeah. Absolutely. Dr. Hamilton's website says he holds a PhD

in organic chemistry and that he worked in research and development. But when people list their degrees on their websites, they tend to include the university that they attended as well, right? which makes it easy to verify. Like people say, oh, I've got a PhD and, you know, whatever, whatever from Columbia University. And you can verify that, especially if we're doing a report or something.

Dr. Hamilton did not include that on his website. So I actually just emailed him, and I asked him which university he attended to get the PhD as well as which company he worked for doing R&D. He replied this morning, and he said he got his Ph.D. from Strathclyde University in Glasgow, and that he worked in R&D at AstraZeneca. I haven't had the time to go verify, but if that's true, he definitely sounds legit. So I would think what he has to say on this issue should matter. Well, yeah, that's certainly a respectable field.

But for those who didn't make any attempts at applying to medical school, what is organic chemistry in the first place? So according to the American Chemical Society, organic chemistry is defined as the study of the structure, properties, composition, reactions, and preparation of carbon conditions. containing compounds. Most organic compounds contain carbon and hydrogen, but they may also include any number of other elements like nitrogen, oxygen, halogens, phosphorus, sulfur, et cetera. So it's the study of all those elements. Right. This is the chemistry involved in biological reactions and things we see occurring in nature and a whole lot more. So that is legitimate. This guy has a PhD in a field that is not kooky. Definitely. So Dr. Hamilton's focus on organic chemistry probably makes him the most qualified expert to discuss any real science surrounding crystals, and the

storage or displacement of energy or magnetic fields resulting from chemical reactions. So I did my research on him, and here's a description he gave on a web interview with Guy Lawrence about the science behind how crystals work. And I quote, one of my main goals in my book, oh yeah, I forgot to mention he's selling a book about this. Well, of course he is. It almost goes without saying, probably a course or something too. Is to be really credible and make sure the science is absolutely solid, end quote. And then a few sentences later, he starts to say that he uncovered an astonishing amount of, and he pauses, he's almost about to say like evidence or studies or something,

he stops himself and says, well, not medical studies because those haven't been done. And then he launches into a scientific sounding explanation about diamagnetism. Yeah, good thing he covers. He covered his ass in the first 12 seconds of that podcast. You know what's better than an overpriced rock? One of the fine products and or services that support this show. We'll be right back. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify.

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search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Skeptical Sunday. I'm going to go into this more later, probably. Whenever people who should know better, or I should say do know better, are trying to shill some nonsense, they are very careful about the disclaimers because what they don't want to do is actually end up with an even worse reputation than they already have. I mean, I would imagine this guy's not invited to the American Chemical Society's annual keynote talks and meetings because they know that he's the guy who's bringing their entire reputation down. But anyway, what is diamagnetism? What is that? Well, and to your point, though, that tends to fuel a lot of

conspiracy theorists because then they see that things are being silenced and this is what Big Pharma doesn't want you to know because if you could be healed by a crystal, why would you ever need, you know, this and this and this? So, okay, so you asked what diamagnetism is. Yeah. And see, this is how it works, right? We're already chasing a rabbit down a hole. Just because of this one little... Yeah, you know what? It often goes like this. One claim leads to another and leads to another and it takes 10 minutes to debunk a single friggin' sentence from these people. This is the Gish Gallup fallacies slash method of disinformation. And we see this with online trolls. We see this with disinformation around everything from medicine to the war in Ukraine

to politics. Someone will just unload a bunch of absolute nonsense. It's like Alex Jones with his info war stuff. He's just saying so many nonsense things that by the time you debunk one or two of these things, you're already at the same time limit he's done to unload a hundred of them. and it is, it's frustrating, it's a very common tactic. And it's, of course, that quote that I butcher every single time I bring it up, which is a lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. Yeah, and I think the last study I saw fake news spread six times faster than true stories. That's right.

And I did a podcast where I was fact-checking Ben Shapiro, and it took me about a solid 25 or 30 minutes of one episode to address two sentences, he said, because I had to sort of prove why it was incorrect and then play the evidence and then describe the evidence and then talk about where the conspiracy came from. You know, if he's got an hour to ramble, I mean, it could take days to address all of that. So you're right. The Gish Gallup is definitely a problem. It's also known as fire hosing or machine gunning, things like that. You give so many statements that it's impossible to track them all down and then as you're fact-checking, you get lost in the weeds. and sometimes you never get back to the original claim.

So this is why shows like this are so important, and why I'm so glad we're doing this, is that we get to have a long-form, deep dive of these things so they can be challenged. Okay, so I don't want to get too distracted and branch off and do another claim and forget to come back to an original challenge. So it is, though, important for people to know what's going on here.

So I'll at least dip a toe in. So science direct.com defines diamagnetism as, quote, a very weak form of magnetism that is induced by a change in the orbital motion of electrons due to an applied magnetic field, end quote. Okay. And that is a very real thing. But Dr. Hamilton explains it like this when he's connecting it to crystals. He says diamagnetism is like when it's pouring down rain and someone standing next to you opens an umbrella. Right.

And then what that would do is that would cause more rain to fall on you than normal. would have while they remain protected. Because of the rain bouncing off the umbrella. Right. Got it. Or it bounces or it sort of collects and then flows and he sort of redirects it into other places. That's the mental image he wants in your head. And he says that diamagnetism is when an object doesn't deflect rain, but rather

deflects or bends the Earth's magnetic field, causing more energy to be dispersed around the crystal. But, I mean, he kind of, he holds up a crystal in this interview and talks about, he's pointing, showing that, like, the Earth's magnetic field is coming down to the crystal, but it deflects away from there. So anything you set the crystal next to is going to get more magnetic fieldish stuff than it normally would have. So it can affect that, right? So that's kind of the idea. But I have to say there's already a contradiction here, because the arguments are that crystals store energy. But his scientific explanation, explains that they deflect it. So there would be no point in charging crystals because you'd just be bouncing energy all over your patio. So nothing he says has anything to do with absorption and storage, but then he claims this can lead to what's called an acceleration of growth of plants, including increasing the amounts of chlorophyll and iron in plants by deflecting more energy away from the crystal. So the crystal somehow redirects the magnetic field around itself to

boost the growth in the plants. That's the idea. Okay. And, And that's the claim people make when they tell you to keep one in your pocket or sleep with some next to your pillow or in your pillow or something like that. But they can't seem to make up their mind if the energy is being deflected off the crystal into you or if it's soaked up in the energy and stored like a battery with some perfect kind of time release so you can microdose magnetism all day. And I'll get back to his ideas and plants in a second. But if this is verified somehow that this actually somehow works, it would at least prove. some sort of functionality for crystals other than something for white girls to put on that square shelf they bought at Target. Yes, yes, something has to go on that shelf. That's stupid square shelf. Right? In the background of your Zoom calls? Yep. Yep. You know, which by the way, tangent,

but did you see the woman who was doing an interview in the UK and she had a giant plastic dildo in the shelf in the background? No, but I saw a screenshot of it. I didn't know there was a video. Yeah, I don't know if there's a video. The screenshot is everywhere, though. The whole world is like, I feel bad for this woman. just sitting there. It's like, oh, how did you miss it? It's probably she's had that there for so long that she just didn't notice it was there on camera. That's so good. Fogarty, find that that image and put that in the show notes for this, so our website can get blocked in the Middle East. Right. So, you know, statistically, there are a handful of women who fit that description listening right now.

I mean people with the shelf, not the dildo on the shelf, but the crystal on the shelf, with an actual square on their wall that they bought a Target or, or I mean, people with a shelf, IKEA and they feel personally attacked. Or maybe there's somebody with a plastic penis on their shelf, too. I guess I shouldn't judge. Isn't that awesome though? Yeah. It's like, it's like personally attacking people indirectly as becoming our brand at this point. So now let me just kind of back up and do a skepticception where I fact check myself within a fact check in the middle of a stupid joke about white women having a square shelf with crystals on it. Okay. And you can enjoy it if you like, but I said it because I knew it would get a cheap laugh.

And honestly, that fuels my soul that I don't believe in. But according to peer research, yes, women are more likely to believe in new age spirituality than men. But interestingly, among women who are black, white, and Hispanic, whites are the least likely to believe. And the worst dancers. Not science. Sorry. Continue. Their study from 2018 shows that 38% of whites,

believe in spiritual energy being located in physical things, compared to 45% of blacks and 55% of Hispanics. Hmm. And it follows a similar trend with whites being the least likely to believe in psychics, reincarnation, and even astrology, which really shocked me because I thought that was like a white girl sport. Me too. I can't tell you how many times they've walked up to me after a comedy show and been like,

what's your sign? And no matter what answer I give, they're like, I knew it. Yeah. You've been there. Yeah, but you should lie about your son. and then when they're like, I knew it, you're like, just kidding, I'm a Pisces. I have. Oh, yeah. I have. They've literally yelled it from the stage, like, as I'm doing stuff before, and I'm like, I'll be like, oh, I'm Pisces, and they're like, I knew it. And I'm like, I'm just kidding. I'm Capricorn.

And then I go, you know, prove the point. But then, you know, if you don't shut it down, just prepare yourself from a whole bunch of unsolicited life advice from the solar system because it's just going to head your way. So anyway, Pew Research even shows that the profile for some reason that makes you the most likely to believe in crystal healing specifically, is you're under 65, a racial minority who have not graduated from college and a Democrat. Huh. If you hit those marks, you're extremely likely to believe in crystal healing. Is there an explanation for why racial minorities are more likely to feel connected

to crystals? Because I would get it if it was like, hey, this is an Asian cultural thing. So a lot more Asians believe in it because it's from Buddhism. But that's not what we're talking about here. Mostly it's the archaeological ties of amulets and important stones to ancient humans in Africa. Okay, so it is kind of like that then. It kind of is. Like, some people claim to have evidence of early humans putting like special elements or rocks aside as early as 10,000 years ago,

which means you're talking very early humans. And we have evidence of historical crystal healing by the ancient Samarians in the fourth millennium BCE, who live in like modern day Iraq. So you're talking Middle East, Sudan, Egypt, Many of the pharaohs used crystals in their crowns, necklaces, and other headpieces, there's scepters, thrones. If you think to the things that they've found, things that are in museums, a lot of them have really bright, pretty colored crystals in them, and even in the statues.

So crystals have long been a part of African and Middle Eastern cultures, and despite what many Americans choose to believe, not a lot of ancient white folks around there. True, that. Okay, in Hispanic culture? Oh, yeah. So in South America, there are pre-Columbian gemstones and evidence dating back to early Mayans who wore jewelry with crystals and around 1,100 CE in the Aztec Empire. We have evidence of mosaics and statues and even masks containing crystals. So when you see Mexican art or necklaces

with turquoise and crystals, it's all part of that same tradition. You know, that makes sense. There's nothing manufactured back then. So brightly colored stones were kind of the most standout amazing things that anyone had ever seen at that point. Yeah, I'm going to get into that. I'm going to get into why some people have an obsession with it. There's a research. who did a whole write-up on that. So did you, then I'll jump to this then. Did you fact-check Dr. Hamilton's diamagnetism stuff? Jordan, I did.

And the things I do for you, I read a 10,500-word peer-reviewed white paper from the National Institute of Health on how magnetic fields regulate plant functions. Okay. That's a big paper to say nothing. So there's probably something in there. Well, it's, I was really trying to figure out

why people are saying their science behind it. I wanted to understand this idea of magnetic fields and how it could actually help. And it turns out, magnetic fields have a lot to do with plant function. So the NIH says that the magnetic field therapy for plants and animals has been found to be an effective and emerging tool to control diseases and increase tolerance against an adverse environment. And they say that the magnetic field interacts with seeds and plants and accelerates metabolism, which leads to an improved germination. So their explanation is that the Earth is a giant magnet, and its geomagnetic field has a huge impact on the productivity of crops. Specifically, the electromagnetic radiations coming from the sun stimulate growth and development of plants

through the process of photosynthesis. And another paper from the NIH in 2014 titled The Effects of Pre-Sewing pulsed electromagnetic treatment of tomato seed on growth, yield, and glycopene content. I think half the word count is in the title. The researchers write, magnetic and electromagnetic treatments are being used in agriculture as a non-invasive technique to improve the germination of seeds and in increased crops and yields. Researchers consider that the prospect of using cheap magnetic energy to improve the properties of soil and plant growth and development may be of great. practical importance. Magnetic fields have been found to improve food reserve utilization and help for

better absorption and assimilation of nutrients by plants and photosynthetic activities. So the research does show that an electromagnetic field can boost the growth of plants. Interesting. But they also, one, they didn't say they used crystals to do the magnetic fields and also they said pulsed in the title of the article. Oh, you caught that, huh? I did. And I'm guessing crystals if they do anything at all, they don't pulse also. And you would be correct. And if they did promote growth, I'd strap 100 crystals to my legs and be 6'5

by Tuesday. I wouldn't strap them to my legs, but I get where you're going. These scientists, well, some of us need help in different areas. Tusha. These scientists are talking about using machines. That's what that whole paper is about. It's about putting machines in the soil to pulse

electromagnetic fields into soil and plants. So what Dr. Hamilton and many of these other folks are doing is they're taking an actual scientific principle that works with provable and demonstrable results, and they're using that same verbiage to justify crystals being or bending some sort of magnetic field to boost organisms. So even though the idea behind Earth's magnetic field having an effect on living organisms is demonstrable with science, the effect that any crystal would have on it is just negligible. You'd have to get hundreds of thousands, if not millions of crystals together to properly test that. And even if that did yield a positive result, it wouldn't be evidence that tossing an amethyst in your pocket would boost motivation like an energy drink. And it certainly

has nothing to do with drawing wealth toward your soul. The psychologist I mentioned, Stuart Weiss, says there is no evidence to support the medical effectiveness of any of these remedies. But there is the possibility that they might have an indirect psychological benefit. Mm-hmm. Okay. When people receive that psychological benefit, that then solidifies their belief. Okay. And as we all know, belief is a very powerful thing. So there is zero scientific evidence that natural crystals emit any sort of energy

or special magnetic field, but that doesn't mean it's all bad. Because if someone believes it's helping, it's possible that that belief actually does some good for them unless they're making life-changing decisions based on the crystals, which creates a whole new problem. Why did you say natural crystals? Well, because there was a recent discovery and invention, I guess I should say, in 2021 of a crystal that does exhibit something called the exotic spiral magnetism, and it's written about in the National Institute of Standards and Technology, but it's made in a lab, and it'll probably just be used or stuffed into a Tesla for additional fart noises. Okay. That sounds about right. Is there anything at all that hints towards crystals

doing any good for the human body at all? No. LiveScience.com says, despite the fact that crystal healing has seen an upsurge in popularity in recent years, this alternative treatment is not popular with most medical doctors and scientists, many of whom refer to crystal healing as pseudoscience. Specifically speaking, there is no evidence that crystal healing can be used to cure diseases, because diseases have never been found to be the result of a so-called energy flow in the body. Furthermore, no scientific studies have ever shown that crystals or gyms can be differentiated by chemical composition or color to treat a particular ailment. I remember you mentioning before that you covered this on your podcast. You had a crystal

healer in studio. Am I remembering correctly? Yeah, yeah. We've done it twice, actually. the first time she had heard an episode we did where I'd mentioned crystals or I made some sort of joke about crystals not working and she wrote into the show and was like

they definitely do work and I just didn't respond and then she connected with one of my co-host and was like I want to come on the show and prove that they work so we were like okay

so we talked to her ahead of time and I was like I want to get your consent ahead of time to basically blindfold you and put crystals up next to you or have you hold them or whatever, and you tell us if you feel the energy. And she agreed. And the idea behind

being blindfolded, and we got her consent to, for her to roll up her sleeves and to touch her arm with the crystals, because I didn't want her to hold them in her hand because she could feel to see if it was a crystal, right? So we had her, hold her palms up and just like flat out, and she rolled her sleeves up, and we would touch her arms or hands with different objects, and she would tell us what it is. And it turns out the most, I'll just go ahead and do the spoiler here. The most powerful crystal that she felt was a plastic bottle cap. Ah. So you, wow. Interesting. Yeah. And she was actually wrong about 65% of the time. And when we revealed the result to her and she watched it back and saw what was happening, she then immediately

started blaming herself. And that sounded very, it reminded me of the way a lot of fundamentalist religious people sort of beat themselves up over things like I talk about on my show. a lot. She was immediately like, well, I must not have charged them properly. Maybe I didn't charge them enough. Maybe my energy is off today. Maybe I'm not right or maybe I'm destructive or maybe my chakras are misaligned. Maybe I'm out of balance and she started to blame herself. So then someone heard that episode and was like, I know for sure I'll be able to do it. And it was almost the exact same result. She was right about half the time and also partially blamed herself, but then really focused on the positive and kind of made herself sound like she had a total victory.

And it was bizarre. Just listening to the... Cognitive dissonance. Yeah, yeah. Kind of her talk herself into victory, even though we all just saw what happened. Now that you're going to be saving a bunch of money on healing crystals, you can pick up something from one of our sponsors. We'll be right back. Once again, thank you for supporting the show and thank you for listening all the deals at

Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals or search the website. Please consider supporting those who make the show possible. for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Like, okay, well, we could also flip a coin and we don't need you because it's going to be the same level of right and wrong. Right. And in the case of the first one who thought she didn't charge her crystals correctly, actually a coin flip is going to be more right than she was in any given issue.

But it makes sense. This is probably a different episode of this show, but that totally makes sense that they started to blame themselves, right? Because otherwise it's the belief system entirely and that there's no merit to it. it would be, it's much easier to say, I'm off or this is wrong, rather than, oh, I've believed in this thing that's clearly got no merit to it for the last 20 years, and I built a whole career around it or whatever. Right.

Yep. Yep, for sure. So why do so many people believe it? You were talking about huge chunks of the population earlier. Yeah, so this is that Stanford scholar I was telling you about earlier. She did a study on that exact concept. Her name is Marissa Galvez. She explains that the physical qualities of crystals make it stand out among other stones.

So she's talking about like ancient people. Why did people care so much? Why do they stand out? Why did people start collecting them and treating them like they're special? And she says its ability to refract light and remain transparent yet also dark, or be transparent, but also have a dark appearance, are partially the reasons why so many different cultures and societies ascribed magical powers to the stones. Okay, so basically because it looks cool. It's like what we were talking about before, where there's no manufactured stuff around, this is just the most amazing thing,

and you dug it out of the ground, or whatever, found it in the water. Yeah, I mean, mostly, and if you think about it, if you were alive back then and had limited, you know, knowledge about the world and cultures, I think I'd probably be the same way, just like I would look at thunder and lightning and pretty much assumed there was a god or somebody up there throwing lightning bolts around. And so, yeah, they stood out, and that's all it took early on. I mean, they're pretty mystical-looking rocks. And in an article about her research on the Stanford website says that Galvez found some poets even, and authors during the Middle Ages who used imagery of crystals in their writing in an unexpected manner.

So it sort of helped it to come into sort of pop culture, even in the philosophical realm, even for those people who weren't like on the front lines looking at them and using them for magic spells, They were sort of embraced in culture to be a meaningful thing to reference. So aside from being commonly viewed as an embodiment of purity and perfection, crystals were also used by some medieval poets to examine desire or the uncertainty of love. And when she was asked what her biggest takeaway for the crystal obsession was, she said, quote, the most ancient writings that mentioned crystals include the accounts of the Roman historian Pliny the Elder

who describe different precious stones, their origins, and the physical qualities. The word crystal comes from the Greek Christalos, meaning coldness drawn together, or a kind of ice or something frozen. And in Western Christianity, crystals are often mentioned in writings and used to decorate important religious objects, as it was thought that crystals manifested transcendence and the life. of the heavens. And for the religious, the stone symbolized purity, faith, and perfection. For example, it was used to describe the purity of the Virgin Mary. So clearly they looked cool, they looked otherworldly, and the way they refracted light was like no other stones people had ever seen. So it was natural to think they were special. But thousands of years later, and test after scientific

tests should be enough for people to just resolve to see them as decoration. But that doesn't seem to be happening. I would imagine also, look, you run into a cave and the walls are covered in crystals, crystals hanging from the ceiling, crystals on the ground, you're just like, this place is magical. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's full of these things. So this all sort of makes sense when you think about early human history and how we ascribe meaning to things and patterns to things that are just not there. I'm seeing some decently respected medical sources talk about crystals in a non-ironic way. And are they buckling to social pressures? Is it a grift? What's going on here. So the reputable ones basically just admit that they are a placebo effect. And they say if you

want to use crystal healing to do so in conjunction with medical treatment as well. Okay. The argument comes when patients want insurance to pay for it. The scientists say it doesn't work, so it shouldn't drive up the cost of treatments. While nurses and doctors actually sometimes argue on behalf of the patient and say that the placebo makes the patient happier and that can actually result in better recovery. So even if the crystal itself doesn't work as proposed, it can't have a positive result in the patient's mind. So insurance should pay for it after all, and that's the basis of the debate. So the argument is just let the person believe it's good so that it's kind of good. Well, WebMD also mentions a quote from Ted Capchick, Ph.D., and he's the director of placebo studies

program at Harvard Medical School. And so, again, the perfect guy to address this. And what he says actually kind of changed my mind about how I view placebos. He says that placebo effect is often wrongly assumed to be all in your head or a fake response to a non-medical substance. But his quote is that brain imaging studies have shown that when a patient performs an action, such as taking a sugar pill or getting an acupuncture session, it activates very specific regions in the brain and can trigger the release of feel-good hormones like endorphins,

dopamine, and even natural painkillers. So it's not all in their heads, but their minds are creating an actual biological change in the body based on the belief combined with the action. So the belief itself wouldn't do it, but the person actually taking the action combined with the belief can actually help them feel better even if the thing itself doesn't work. Yeah, we actually did a whole episode recently on the placebo effect with Joe Marchant. That's episode 716. In that episode, we dove deeply. into how all that works in the brain and the body, as well as the limitations of the placebo effect.

Because a lot of people are like, yeah, placebo effect, so it cured this thing. It's like, no, placebo effect basically only works for pain. There's probably limits, very limited use in other areas, but it's pain start to finish, and that's it. Or full stop, I should say. Nause, nausea. It can also work with nausea.

I know there's some other stuff like that. Like nausea, pain, things like that, full stop. It can't actually get rid of a condition. It can only sort of mitigate things that you control, which is your response to things. Yeah, pain, nausea, et cetera. This episode 716. Okay, so there's kind of something real happening

even if it's not caused by the crystal itself. So in theory, you could swap that crystal out with something that felt like a crystal or was the same shape as a crystal, and as long as they don't know, it's going to have the same effect. Right, which is really interesting, and it means we should pay attention to it.

In fact, on Dr. Hamilton's website, when you click to contact him, then he's got a notice that says, please note, I have a PhD, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm unable to dispense medical advice. And then he says, with regards to visualization, it's not a substitute for medical advice, but something we should practice in addition to medical advice. And then in his bio, it says that he is inspired by the placebo effect and how some people's conditions would improve because they believed a placebo was a real drug. I left the industry to write books and educate

people on how they can harness their mind and emotions to improve their mental and physical health. On one hand, I appreciate the honesty. On the other, it's kind of a way, it's definitely a way for these people to make money by selling books, classes, courses, or talks, pushing pseudoscience while staying out of legal trouble by writing the fence between fact and fiction. So that's, I won't say it's a loophole, but there's certainly a gray area here that these people are exploiting. Yep, 100%. So final thoughts on crystals? Well, I mean, my final thought is, is, look, if an adult says they feel better when they say cuddle a teddy bear or have a special blankie, I suppose there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. It's the dependency that becomes the problem, right? Like, refusing to make life decisions because you don't have the right crystal in your pocket. Or avoiding moving because Mercury is in retrograde or not buying the car because tonight has a full move. That means these things are having more of an effect or impact on your life than they should.

And by the way, I know people like that. I know people who have done it. I've had people refuse to do things either with me or come to a show because of these sort of superstitious things. And that's when I have the discussion, right? That's when I feel the need to actually say something. It's like moderation. It's any sort of like, I guess managing like an addiction, right? Having a drink, having a cigar.

If it starts to impact your life, it's no longer minor. It's the critical thinking that gets me. So if you need to have diet and exercise along with your miracle drug, guess what? It's not a miracle. Just do the diet and exercise and go from there. I mean, studies have shown that talking to your dog is both good for you and it's good for your dog and it strengthens your bond, but you shouldn't consult with your pets when it's time to do taxes.

So if your teddy bear makes you feel better, fine, that's great. But when you tell me it has magical powers and that I have to buy one or my life's going to go to shit, now we have to have a conversation. But what do I know? I'm just a comedian. Yeah, as long as people aren't replacing their actual medical treatment with crystal healing, I suppose what's the harm other than some maybe wasted money in charlatans taking advantage of vulnerable people? Right. What's the harm other than that?

Thanks, David. Thanks, buddy. As usual, I've got some thoughts on this episode. But before I get into that, here's a preview with a former undercover FBI agent who infiltrated the Gambino crime family in New York for nearly three years, resulting in the arrest and conviction of 35 mobsters. And get this, he's not even Italian. Here's a bite. Jordan, I've done everything.

I mean, I have posed as a money launderer. I've worked as a drug dealer. I have worked as a transporter for drug dealers. I have worked as a warehouse guy. The whole gamut. My career was 24 out of 26 years. We're solely dedicated working undercover. If I wasn't working for the FBI,

I would have been investigated by the FBI. Exactly, yeah. Now, I walk in, I'm in the bar. Now, there's a barmate there. Good looking young lady. She's serving me, Trulgate. What would you like? I used to leave my drink for us.

Give me a kettle, one martini, three olives, a glass of water on the side. I finish the drink. The guys come in. I'm going to go in my pocket, take out the big water money at knot with a rubber band on it. Bam, give her a hundred dollars. You're not a guy who takes out a little leather wallet, and he's going through the change, he's doing that. Can you imagine four gangs are sitting around going,

let's split it up. I had the soup. You had to sandwich and french fries. What about the tech? Sometimes we get into bidding work. That goes, hey, your money's no good here. What are you doing? You're embarrassing me over here.

What do you mean? You paid the land. Let me get to. Forget about it. You pay for it. If I would have gone in there and became a guy who had never a penny, never went into his wallet, never picked up a tab, never had a dime, never kicked up money,

never gave tribute payments. happy on my ass, they throw me out. If you're with the mob, I say, hey, Jordan, you're on record with us. That means we protect you. Nobody could shake you down. We can shake you down. So you're on record with us. For more, including tricks wise guys used to know who's legit and who's not,

mob culture and the rules that govern the always upward flow of money, and how Jack became so trusted by the highest levels of the organization that they offered him the chance to become a made man, check out episode 392 of the Jordan Harbinger Show with Jack Garcia. Thanks again to everybody for their suggestions. This topic, I'm sure, is going to make some waves. It was a suggestion from listener. Again, if we get something way off, well, this one is pretty confident on this one.

Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. Better to email us suggestions if you don't believe in magical rocks. A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or hit me on LinkedIn. You can find David Smalley at David C. Smalley on all social media platforms at David C. Somali.com or better yet, on his podcast, the David C. Smalley Show. Links to all things David will be in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer or your geologist. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who needs to hear it, somebody who believes in Crystal Healing and has spent a lot of money on it instead of on things they actually need.

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