The Jordan Harbinger Show - 844: Dropping the Bomb: His Sister's His Mom | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

Your family tree has a few branches that are a little more entwined than most — outside of old-world royalty and down-home banjo duelists. You happen to know a particularly dark secret about a troubled cousin's parentage, but you're wondering if telling him would be helpful or hurtful. What should you do? We'll try to find answers to this and more here on Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Would it be helpful or hurtful to disclose an incestuous family secret to the cousin it most affects? You've been deemed "unfit for duty" after attempting suicide. While you consider yourself lucky to be alive, you're wondering how to get a new job — and maintain insurance to cover meds and the help you need — with this on your record. Your fiancée's ongoing involvement with a "business" contact feels a lot like an emotional affair — something you endured in a past relationship and aren't eager to repeat. How do you address this before trust in your betrothed has irrevocably eroded? How do you help your mother move on from the death of your father when she's vehemently opposed to the idea of therapy? [This segment is sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks to Haesue Jo, Head of Clinical Operations at BetterHelp!] When traveling, what is the most tactful way to tell someone in a neighboring seat that their disgusting habits are unacceptable? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/844 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you do. get your podcasts. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha-chings from every channel, right in one spot, and turn real-time reporting into big-time opportunities.

Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer, my partner in Palaver, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show,

we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become

a better informed, more critical thinker so you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind. If you're new to the show, this is Friday. We give advice, we answer listener questions. Other times during the week, we have long-form interviews

and conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. This week we had Ellie Honig, prosecutor over in New York. We talk about why powerful people, especially rich and powerful people, get away with crime. Really interesting look at the justice system. Even if you're not a lawyer, I think it'll really dig it. A lot of it has to do with the psychology of how things work

in the justice system. I thought this is kind of a fascinating and unique conversation. As always, fun ones, doozies as well, of course. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My family is a complete train wreck. It's the result of generations of severe abuse, which continued throughout my childhood. I'm the only person in my family to ever seek therapy, which I've been in on and off for nearly 20 years, healing from the trauma I experienced. This friction has pushed me to distance myself from most of my family member. I had to decide between my sanity and my family, and after I had my son, I prioritized my sanity. The only family members I've remained open to maintaining relationships with

are those who were the victims of the abuse that I experienced. My brother, who hasn't talked to me since my mom faked a suicide attempt and blamed me in her suicide letter, my cousin, and my uncle Mark. Mark is only a few years older than me. We grew up very close and even lived together during my childhood. He's one of my favorite people in the world, and he's still deeply tormented by his upbringing. I recently found out what I always suspected, that Mark is not my uncle. He's my cousin. My aunt Victoria is his mom, and most likely, my grandfather is his biological dad.

That's the light version, because this is really creepy and gross. Continue. Yes, this is incest, and I have always known about the relationships between my mom. mom, her sister, and their dad. Oh, man. I told you, my family is messed up. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that is dark, man.

So just to be clear, Gabe, her aunt Victoria is Mark's mom, which makes them cousins, and Victoria's dad is Mark's father. That's right. It's not on the paper. It's not on the tree. No, it's not on the birth certificate. No, there's a dotted line going across other lines that you don't normally want in the family tree. So Mark's father.

is also his grandfather. Yeah, I mean, shudder, for real. And I'm not trying to be a dick about this. I mean, okay, look, I guess this means that our friend here's grandfather is also her uncle, I think. This is getting confusing for me. It's so confusing. Okay, yeah. This whole thing would break Ancestry.com.

So, yeah. Maybe don't spit into the tube if it ever comes to that. So she goes on, Mark believes he doesn't have any living parents. But he does, Victoria. I don't have a relationship with her, mostly because she lives across the country in Arkansas and has incredibly problematic beliefs. When she found out that I knew the truth about Mark, she started bombarding me with DMs and voicemails.

I blocked her on all platforms after she began threatening me not to tell Mark. So I'm now left with a decision to make. Keep this to myself or tell Mark the truth. I have a few reasons for telling him what I know. If I've been suspicious about all of this for so long, chances are he's been too. He's 20 years younger than his quote-unquote sister,

who is really his mother, and this age gap was a running joke during my childhood. Mark has been suffering his whole adult life with alcohol addiction and mental health issues. I've always wanted to help him, and I wonder if finding out the truth could be a key to getting better. I don't have relationships with my abusive mother or aunt, so I don't really care if they're mad at me for telling one of the many family secrets. I think these secrets are incredibly harmful to everyone involved, and I'm not going to continue hiding the darkness for them. This has kept my family sick for too long. But I'm struggling to understand what's best for Mark.

I'm not sure if it would be best for him to continue believing a lie that he's been told his old life, or to find out the truth about his identity. To be clear, I will not tell Mark who his dad is, as this is speculation on my part. Educated speculation, but still, I don't know it to be 100% true. What would you do? Would telling Mark would I know help him or cause him more harm? signed highly sore and deeply torn about this dark family lore. Wow, what a family, Gabe, man, what a tale.

I'm a little speechless over here myself. Yeah, I think this is a first for Feedback Friday, isn't it? I don't know if we've talked about incest before. I don't know, you might be right. We've talked about a lot, but incest is kind of, it's the final Feedback Friday frontier for, man, it's taking a lot not to play the deliverance banjo soundby right now, but I also don't want to be a complete a-hole about it.

Restrain yourself, yeah. Yeah, but when she said her aunt lives in Arkansas, my heart sank a little, because I really didn't want to feed into the whole stereotype about the South. And it's like, yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. I just, you know, I long for some big city incest. Give me an incestuous family on the Upper West Side or something. Like, let's break these stereotypes down.

Yeah, exactly. Give me an in-bred family that goes to the ballet and rides the F-Train to work. There's got to be incest north of the Mason-Dixon line, right? Definitely. There's got to be. In fact, the higher north. with you go, I think it gradually becomes the south again. Just like the extreme, the extreme north of the U.S. and Canada, probably a lot like the south. You think like, oh, Michigan, New York,

no, no, no, I'm talking about the Upper Peninsula, folks. You know who you are. Yellowknife represent. Thanks for that, Jordan. I can't wait for all the emails we're going to get from people in Yellowknife and Maine and Saskatchewan, just tearing us a bard for that comment. I'm not throwing shade. I'm just being progressive here. Anyone anywhere is capable of keeping it in the family. Just, I'm the open-minded one here. So Northern Territories in the house? Definitely in the house.

Literally, specifically in the same house. But anyway, like, sorry for the last. We're just being silly. This has nothing to do with you. We're just trying to add levity to a situation that is probably mostly devoid of levity entirely. So let's dig into this. First of all, it sounds like you've come

a very long way in your life. You've done a lot of work on yourself. You've gone to therapy. You've distanced yourself from what sounds like quite an abusive and dysfunctional family. It's incredible. A lot of people don't make it that far. And it's so hard to escape these cycles of trauma. And it sounds like you've done that or you're in the process of doing that

and giving yourself and your son the best possible shot at a very different life. So you should be really proud of yourself. You're also being very thoughtful about your uncle cousin. Sorry. It's kind of killing you not to tell Mark this huge piece of news, but you're taking the time to think about what it would mean for him. And I think that says a lot about you. Because I don't know.

I'd probably be like, oh, I got Mark. I don't even know if I'd think about it. Just like pick up the phone and dump it right on somebody. But you're doing the right thing. So just to cut to the chase here, I personally am leaning toward telling Mark what you know. Because, like you said, he probably already suspects that the story your family told him isn't true.

He's suffering from addiction and mental health issues. I'm sure that stuff, the causes are many. It's not just going to be the story of his birth that's maybe doing this. But I have to imagine it's played some kind of role in his psychology, even if it's just growing up thinking that both of his parents are really old and also dead and that nobody loves him. You know, he has no relationship like that.

I don't know. It's just, uh. But Jordan, I just have to say that story they told him seems very flimsy. Yeah, it's a little weird. Like, they just told him his parents died and that was it. No further questions. Like, how did grandma have me when she was 60 years old or whatever?

I don't know. But then who does he think his parents are? If he was told that he's a Victoria's brother his whole life, then he would believe that the grandfather was his father, or that the grandmother was his mother, and he had a different father, which would make Victoria, maybe his half-sister, so maybe, I don't know, I'm just speculating here.

Like, did they say the grandma died, and that's how they told the story? Either way, this is a really hard story to believe. It just doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, so it's hard for me to believe that Mark is fully on board. Especially, look, they've been joking about it their whole lives. I think Mark knows deep down that something just doesn't add up, which if that's what we're picking up from the last,

and something doesn't add up this guy's whole life. So this is my point. Our friend here might not be turning his whole life upside down. She might just be confirming what he already knows is true. And maybe he's just not telling other people because he's like, oh, they're going to reject me and they're going to yell at me. And it's like, oh, my God, you knew? Maybe he'll be relieved.

Somebody knows. As disturbing as this is, I have to think it's more validating to finally know the truth and to go through your whole life confused about who slash where you came from. Yeah, I think it might be both. But I'm with you. It's probably a net good. At the same time, though, I think you need to be realistic about what impact this news will have on Mark. As you pointed out, a lot of dysfunction in your family.

Yeah. And I'm sure Mark's struggles are about a lot more than just his lineage. So if you decide to tell him, I wouldn't pin all of your hopes for his getting better on finally knowing the truth. Because, A, he has a lot to work through beyond who are my actual parents. And B, his getting better, that ultimately depends on what he does with this information. He could do a few different things. And unfortunately, that part is mostly out of your conversation. control. Right, because that news could send him into a spiral. It could send him into a rage. It could send him

into a lot of shame. And that might reinforce any addiction that he's got. Yeah. Who knows, might be part of why he developed the addiction in the first place. It doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to know. I would just be realistic about what you hope to achieve by telling him. And when you do tell him, you know, I would really help him make sense of the revelation, help him work through whatever it brings up. I mean, I'm sure his mind is going to be racing going back through his whole life. Like, oh, that moment make sense now. Oh, that's why I always felt weird when so-and-so came around. I'm guessing there's a lot there for him to explore. You know, there's another good reason to tell Mark the truth, which is he should know who his parents are if he ever wants to have his own kids, because there's a little,

punnet squares and stuff. Remember those? That's right. I do remember those. That could get dicey. I don't exactly know how all that works, but I think if your grandfather is also your father, there's probably something potentially dangerous going on there. And if he doesn't know, or if he's just pretending he doesn't know, that could become a huge problem if he ever has children of his own. They probably have to do additional screening or something along those lines. Just one more reason that keeping the secret from him is incredibly messed up. I mean, what are they going to just leave it to chance and let him find out the hard way? That's really sad.

Yeah, because of course, he could have his own kids and they're like, hey, there's something here that only happens when the father's side has this. And he'll be like, what? And then now you've got some sort of health issue and essentially damn, evidence. A little aside here, my dental hygienist, one of the most interesting people ever, they have a son who has a liver issue and he had a liver transplant when he was younger. And it's a rare genetic condition. And so the doctors at the hospital asked his wife if they were related. And it's funny because he has an accent that's from a completely different continent

than she does, even though they're both of African descent. Well, he's actually African, right? But she's like an African Caribbean or something like that. So it's like, are we related? She's got like a Caribbean accent. He's got an African accent. I mean, it's possible, but it's not too bloody likely. But it's like a one in 10 million chance. But so what happened?

Did they test? Oh, I think this is a while. I mean, the kid's in college now. So he just had some liver issue as a result of. Yeah, he's fine. I mean, it's, but it's just like, these things are rare. So what I'm saying here is if Mark's kid has some issue and it's like, wow, we had a one and gazillion chance of this.

is happening, except for if my grandfather's also my dad and my aunt, my mom. I mean, I don't know how this stuff works, but I feel like stuff like that comes out in the wash, and then they've got to explain it. And it's like, so you wanted to keep a family secret and now my son's got, you know, webbed feet or whatever. I don't know. It's not a great look if they're being that careless. It's better to be open about this stuff for health concerns, but also this stuff's always going to come out. Do you want it to come out when you can kind of control the damage a little bit or not? So yeah, It's very dark, very selfish. If the grandfather did this, which I also want to make clear, this is still, I think, an if.

He's probably keeping this secret to protect himself. And I'm not sure. Is he not alive anymore this grandfather? Unclear. We don't know. Victoria, not quite sure what's going on there. Her panic about Mark finding out that she's his mom, it might be more complicated. I think Grandpa must be dead because if Mark thinks he has no parents and he thinks he's

Victoria's brother, that means Grandpa is not a brother. No, but he didn't know that Grandpa was his dad. So they said his parents' word. died, but his grandfather could still be alive easily. I see. God, this is so, so confused. I'm like extra confused on this one. But you're right. Anne Victoria is an complicated figure in the story. She might be deeply ashamed about all of this if this is what happened. She might be afraid of her dad. Still, it's possible. She might be terrified of having to confront all of this with the whole family. The whole conversation might be retramatizing. So that could explain some of her response.

Sure. And look, we don't know all the details, but it sounds like the grandfather is a really real monster. This guy had sex with his own daughter. Who knows how many times? Probably. When she was like 20 years old. And that's when she had the kids. So who knows how long that had been going on before that. Oh, God, that's dark. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Yeah. And I'm guessing he was at least twice her age. So that's horrifying. Because theoretically, if you're raping your own daughter, are you not trying to not have a kid and stuff? So maybe this is like a miss. So who knows? It could have been going on for years. And I'm sure Victoria's carrying some really terrible wounds of her own, even though she seems a little bit like a looney tune right now,

I feel for her. Her dad basically ruined her life. So when she started threatening our friend here, if she told Mark the truth, I'm sure that was hard to hear, but I kind of get it to some degree. I understand where she's coming from. I do too.

It's a really fair point. Our friend here is saying, these secrets are terrible, they're harmful, I'm not going to continue hiding the darkness anymore, but those secrets might also be sparing Victoria a lot of pain. They might be the only way that this family knows how to cope with the whole,

of what happened. It's not right. It's not healthy, but it might be understandable if it's serving a purpose. Also, Jordan, let's not forget that there seem to be other victims here. In her letter, she said, she's always known about the relationships between my mom, her sister, and their dad. So I'm gathering that her mom was victimized by their father, too. Right. Yeah. Okay. So that actually got lost in the shuffle for me because it was right at the top of the letter. So her mom was abused by her father too. Seems like it. There's a lot to keep track of here.

Too much incest to track. It's really confusing. It does make me feel a little bit sick, actually. Not just because it's de facto gross in principle, but because of the trauma this man has foisted on his family. I mean, meanwhile, I'm all like, oh, do I let Jaden watch extra cartoons or do I put him to bed at a responsible time? And meanwhile, this dude's like raping his kids.

It's so screwed up. I can't get to the point where somebody would even think about doing this. I just can't. It's like so sick. Well, the impact of that is unimaginable, right? This is the mother, the woman who wrote in, her mother is the one who faked a suicide attempt and then blamed her. Right. Everybody be suffering because of this guy.

Yeah, everyone's suffering because of this guy. And God knows what other things happen to them that they don't even talk about slash know about anymore. So that just confirms for me that she was absolutely right to pull back from this family. There's so much pain and toxicity there. It would be different if they had been abused and they were like, look, we got to get through this as a family, but to then fake your suicide and be like, it's her fault. It's like, okay, I don't have time for this. I got a kid, and I can't be having him around your psycho craziness right now. But, you know, this is really hard because I hear a lot of rage in her

letter, a lot of distaste for her family. It makes perfect sense. She inherited a lot from this whole family. Her mother is unstable. She's lashing out at her. She's blaming her for her fake suicide. Her aunt is on the other side, threatening her if she does right by her cousin and tells them the truth. It's all incredibly messed up. And to your point, these are all super traumatized people. They've all been victimized by this guy. And they're all trying to cope with the pain in different ways. So it's also kind of like, do you empathize with them? You know, do you forgive them, sort of to some degree? Or do you just have to pull back and cut them off because it's so dysfunctional and it's so dark that no normal person could possibly maintain a healthy relationship with them? That's the dance she has to do,

I suppose. But I feel that she's 100% right to fall on the old separate and draw strong boundaries side of things. Again, I think her son deserves that too. That's the main thing. Yeah, because let's not forget that she says they abused her. Like, this isn't just them being kind of nuts. Like, they harmed her. It's not just

drama that she can be like, oh, grandma's a little kooky, we're leaving now. It's like, it crosses that line by a mile. And to your point, Gabe, people don't abuse other people unless they are damaged also. And so it's like, I'd imagine she's constantly moving between these two positions. Healthy judgment and rage and compassion and forgiveness. And like, you're not going to let

your parents ever be alone with your kid because they were abused. So it's a whole thing. Like you can't even, there's not like a useful family relationship here. So such an intense and complicated situation. I'm reeling a little bit from all this. But to bring it back to Mark, if you do tell him, I would just be as supportive as possible. You can't just be dropping a huge bomb and piecing out. You guys are close. He probably trusts you quite a bit. bit and you want this news to help him, you might want to help him process it, figure out what to do with it, while also allowing him to move through this in his own way. And like we said, you can't fix this overnight. He might continue to struggle for a while, but if you can frame this

revelation as a piece of the puzzle that will help him heal, it might land the way that you hope. A good question to ask yourself would be, why do you think this revelation will be so helpful to him. And if you were Mark, what would you need to make the best use of it? If you answer those questions, I think you're going to know how to prepare for this conversation. In the meantime, keep taking care of you, stay focused on your son. You're a very impressive person, very strong. We're sending you a big hug and wishing you and your cousin, Uncle Mark, all the best and the optimal number of chromosomes. You know what you will want to share with the whole family, Gabriel? The amazing products and

services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for listening and supporting the show. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Hey guys, I've been working with a government agency for six years and made my way up to Supervisor. The job wasn't necessarily what I wanted for. from life, but the benefits were great and the pay was decent. I've always had mental health issues, but this last year has been rough and culminated with a suicide attempt two months ago. I received help

and am working on long-term treatment. But due to the suicide attempt, my job has deemed me unfit for duty. This means that they'll try to find me a job for 60 days, and if they can't, they will let me go. It's been two weeks since I've learned this, and I've been applying for new jobs, but I'm not sure what my next path is. I'm 32. I never graduated from college, and I'm not sure what I want to do when I grow up. My dad is being supportive.

I will be moving in with him, and he said I should do what will make me happy. But I don't know where to start. Also, I'm worried about making sure I have health insurance for my prescriptions and therapy. I'm applying for jobs, and I know I can do something basic to bring some money in, but is that the right thing to do?

Where should I start? Signed, stuck in doubt, about my life route after nearly piecing out. Oh, man, I am very sorry to hear you've had a rough year and that you got to a point where suicide seemed like the best option. I can only imagine how far down you've got to feel to do that. So my heart really does ache for you. And I can hear how dark this chapter has been.

Even from your brief letter, I get the sense that you're actually a very strong person. You're a very focused person. You're being remarkably calm and resourceful, and it's super impressive. I think a lot of times that people go through these things, they feel like it's a weakness, and I don't. I'm glad you reached out to us. I'm happy to get to talk to you. So obviously, I am thrilled that you're in therapy. We recommend that all the time. It sounds like your

treatment is working. That's great news. You probably know that's what I would have encouraged you to do if you had written to ask me what to do. So I think that's really smart. You're doing whatever you can to make sure you can continue getting this support. I'd say that's priority number one right now, even more than finding a job that is a perfect fit for you. But to zoom out here even more, I do think you need to take some pressure off of figuring out what the right career path is immediately and keep focusing on you.

You're very fortunate to have a dad who's supportive. I'm assuming that takes some of the financial pressure off. You know, someone's paying the bills. You don't have to panic about that stuff. I'm not saying you should take advantage of his kindness or where you're welcome or whatever. But this stage, it might last a little well. You might need some time to go inward

to appreciate what you've been through, to wander into the wilderness, so to speak, and work through some of the feelings and experiences that go back a very long time, things that you might have even been avoiding or didn't even know we're there while you were on your old path. My feeling is that that's the most important work

you could be doing right now. Your career is, obviously, it's important too, and I totally appreciate the urgency you feel. I'm not saying you can't do both. If you can, by all means, don't hold yourself back from good opportunities. you can recover and search for jobs. And obviously, you might need to get a job in the meantime that isn't the perfect fit

just to take care of yourself, which is totally fair. But I really do believe that your big career question will be informed by your inner life, your mental health. It can be so hard to get excited about work when you're struggling. I know that feeling firsthand, man. You're just, everything's going right, but you're something's not, so you just can't stop thinking about it. You need to get in touch with what matters to you, what lights you up.

You need to find out which environments and fields support you the way that you want. So I'd work on those primarily and trust that these other big questions, they'll fall into place. Could not agree more, Jordan. And on a practical level, it can be pretty tough to reach out to new people and shine in job interviews. If somewhere in the back of your mind, you're going, I don't know. I don't know if I feel quite right. I don't know if I'm ready for this. I'm still feeling kind of hopeless and I'm anxious or I'm afraid, whatever it is.

that's all stuff you want to work through in therapy. And I'm not saying you need to take, you know, six years to do that until you can find your path. It could be six months or nine months. It might be three months. There's no one timeline. But I think Jordan's right. Be a little patient with yourself here. Two months ago. Two months ago, you tried to end your life. That is a very heavy thing. The thoughts and the experiences that led you to that point, I'm sure they're very complex and I have no doubt that they're shaping your experience of the world. So you got some healing to do. It takes time, but that deserves your attention right now. In fact, the urgency that you feel to figure out your path right away, I don't know, it's interesting. I wonder if that might

itself be a way of coping with the situation you find yourself in. Interesting. You mean like she might be trying to fast forward here a little bit? I wonder, I think so maybe. I love her commitment. I love her productivity. It's beautiful. Let's just appreciate. To go from a suicide attempt to hustling for a job because you need to take care of yourself really speaks to some of her amazing qualities. But yes, that might also be a way to skip over this very important stage in her recovery where a lot of her job right now is to bear some difficult feelings, including this anxiety about all of the uncertainty. And maybe a little bit of shame about stepping off of a well-defined path and moving back in with dad and having to go, okay, wow.

Like my job right now is just to take care of myself, get better, make sure I'm okay, and admit that I need support while I do that. I could see how that would be very difficult to bear, and I totally understand the impulse to just, you know, can we get this thing moving again? Can I get onto a path so I don't have to be in this stage and I don't have to feel like this person. Let's get this over with. But at this moment, so soon after the suicide attempt, I think she could only benefit

by slowing down a little bit and going deeper into her treatment. Yeah, I think that's well said. That's so fascinating. And at first I was like, damn, this woman is resilient. She doesn't waste any time. And that's definitely true. She is, right. But sometimes moving quickly and being so strong, sometimes those are precisely the qualities that make it harder to get better. And I know that sounds like a weird paradox. But look, you wake up in a year, two years, 10 years. You got a great job. Your career is rocking and your life looks pretty solid. But you have all these other, well, same problems you had before, except they're worse because you didn't really deal with them. So I hope that gives you a new lens here. I'm really happy you're alive. I mean that sincerely, of course. The fact that you're engaging with therapy, with life, with your career, that you're writing into us for advice. That's an excellent sign.

And you're just doing so much right. So just give yourself permission to really go all the way. Trust that the best way of taking care of your career long term is taking care of yourself right now. And we're sending you a big hug. We're wishing you all the best. Look, you got this. You're already doing so great. You'll be fine.

Keep it up. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines. If you're wrestling with something, life, love, work, what to do if your girlfriend's stepdad stole her nudes. And no, that's not the premise of some cringy erotica Gabe pulled off of Reddit. It's an actual question we took last week.

Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay. Next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm in my early 40s. and my fiancé is in her late 30s. She's a very intelligent and thoughtful woman

who has overcome a lot of adversity to accomplish a lot in her life. She has two professional degrees and is now working on our first love, which is writing a book. Last year, she went back to school on the West Coast while I stayed on the East Coast. During that period, we struggled

and ended up breaking up for nine or ten months. She dropped out of school and traveled for a while. We kept in touch while she was away, which helped rebuild our bond, which led to us getting back together and getting engaged. When she got back home, she was texting on her phone more than usual, always shielding her screen, which she never did before going away. I noticed a man's name, let's call him Frank, but didn't say anything.

A week later, while my fiancé was in the shower, her phone was face up and ringing. It was Frank. I asked her who he was. She flipped out on me, telling me that I'm acting weird because it's a guy. She said she met Frank while she was on the West Coast, that he had a girlfriend and kids, that I need to chill out, and that he was going to help her with her book sales. Two weeks later, she was crying,

saying that she thinks Frank is a con and that she's worried he's going to try and sue her to take her book sales. I was supportive and walked her through why that wouldn't happen. Three weeks after that, she told me that she might have overreacted and that they were going to work together after all. I didn't think it was a good idea, but I said I would support her decision if she felt that he could really help.

The next month and a half, they were on the phone all the time, at all hours. I would catch bits of their conversations, and it sounded less like business and more like bonding, like therapy sessions for him, or like fights between siblings or chaotic couples. This triggered a lot in me. In college, I had a girlfriend who had a new friend arrive out of the blue, and she eventually cheated on me with him. I worked through these feelings by listening to talks and seeking out advice from too close friends, but it's still hard for me to silence that voice in my head. Eventually,

my fiancé and Frank ended up having a huge falling out, which led to them not working together. Three weeks later, my fiancé was chatting on the phone. I asked her who she was chatting with. She didn't answer. The feeling in my stomach told me it was Frank, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions. I figured she didn't hear me, so I left it alone. Two days after that, she was on the phone again, and this time I made sure she heard me when I asked who it was. She casually replied that it was frank and asked if that was a problem. My reply was, yes, it is. This is a person who has been shitty to you, unreliable, and when I first asked you about him, you gaslit me. I don't understand why you're insisting on working with somebody who you told me has a boatload of negative traits. Now you're

being cagey. Last time you told me you guys were working together, this time it feels sneaky. Her reply was that he has bigger networks that can be tapped into, but she didn't reply to the other things I said. That was the last time we talked about it. It's been a week. Now I feel like my trust in my fiance is eroding. She's smart and she knows how to pull levers. She once said that an ex called her manipulative, which I can see. She thinks in chess, whereas most people think in checkers. How do I address this feeling? How do I deal with what seems like an emotional affair? Do I need to go to therapy? signed a little shook about the possible crook keeping my girl on the hook for this ill-fated book.

Okay. Well, this is a problem. It certainly does sound like there's some Frankie-Panky going on over there. I've been holding on to that for at least five minutes. Actually angry at myself for not thinking of that for the sign-off. I'm surprised that I'm the one that came up with that instead of you. Very nice. So this is actually a few problems. And the one that you're worried about most,

the nature of your fiancé's relationship with Frank, It's almost like the least of the crap that's going on here. Agreed. I can understand why this is so hurtful and confusing for you. Your fiancé is putting you in a very difficult spot, and there's a lot going on here. So let's dig in. First of all, no, I don't think you're crazy. I think you're absolutely right to listen to your gut here.

There's nothing wrong with your fiancé having a relationship with another guy. Fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with her getting close to somebody she's working on a book with. These projects, they have a way of bringing people very close together. There's a certain intimacy that develops between collaboration. collaborators, and that can lead to some occasional conflict and confusion. Emotions can run high. Although, I will say that Frank is not her writing partner or her editor, as far as I

understand. It sounds like he's more on the marketing business side. So he's trying to help her sell the book, pump up sales. So I'm just, I'm a little confused about why their conversations are so intense and all consuming. You know, if Gabriel and I got into it, which we actually don't usually do, if we got into it because we were thinking about a feedback Friday answer or question, that's one thing. But when it's like, your job is to sell this and my job is to write it, it's like,

where's the beef? Yeah, where's the friction here? Something's not adding up. Exactly. Something is not adding up. I got email marketers. We don't spend hours on the phone. They don't even like me. And I don't know, Gabe. I just get the sense, not really kidding about that. I'm pretty sure they don't like me. But I just get the sense that Frank is taking her for a ride or just totally mismanaging this relationship in some way. But, hey, who knows? Maybe they're really engaging with the process together. Let's put that aside for now. What is definitely a problem, in my view, is your fiance's secrecy around Frank. She feels he's this crappy, unreliable person, but she keeps working with him

because he's making our promises. Like, I've got networks you can tap into, which by the way, like, who hasn't heard that a million times at this point? They fight consistently like siblings or a couple. She's tolerating this chaotic up and down thing. She's not being very respectful to you in all of this, not being very thoughtful about what her relationship with Frank brings up for you. That's a problem. And that said, I don't know if your fiancé would cheat on you with Frank or if she has already, although there certainly do seem to be some blurred lines in their relationship. And like you said, this might be an emotional affair of sorts.

That's already dicey. But where this gets more complicated is that there are two of you in this relationship, and as with any dynamic, your stuff is interacting with her stuff. So this thing that you shared about having a girlfriend in college who cheated on you, that's very interesting here. And I can hear that there's a wound there that's getting reactivated, that scab, scar, whatever's getting picked on, and that makes sense. And I'm sure your fiancé is picking up on that anxiety and that fear,

even if she's frankly not being very, pardon the pun, being very kind about it at all. Interesting. So I think what you're getting at is that there's maybe a world where she's being cagey about Frank, not because there's actually something going on, but because she's trying to spare him. Yeah, because it feels easier to her. Maybe even a weird way it's fairer to her to sort of shield you from the frank of it all

because she can see how much it distresses you and because she might be too ill-equipped or afraid of working through that openly with you, which is weird for somebody who supposedly thinks in chess, but that doesn't mean she's good at facing her actual feelings and other people's feelings. Now, let me be clear. I'm not saying that what she's doing is the right thing to do.

It's not. I'm not blaming you for this either. but what I'm saying is it does take two to tango, and I get the sense that there's a lot of unspoken stuff that passes between you guys. Like that day you asked her who she was talking to, and she just pretended not to hear you, and then you sort of agreed to let it go

until your anger built up even more, and you couldn't ignore it, and you pressed the issue, and then she exploded, which, by the way, good on you for doing that, because you asserted yourself appropriately, and that's important, but this does make me wonder about this pattern, this pattern of dating women who cheat on you,

or keep you at arm's length or don't openly communicate with you, at least not always. And I don't want to speculate here, but there's obviously a parallel here. You're going to have to figure out what the deal is there. And yeah, absolutely. I think that would be a wonderful thing to explore in therapy. Maybe you struggle to confront your partners about their real feelings when things get difficult. Maybe you stick around in relationships that aren't entirely fair or healthy longer than you should. Oh, yeah. It's also possible that he might choose partners who don't communicate well or who have messy relationships with other people or maybe you have a tendency to, yeah, to manipulate him a little bit.

Totally. All possibilities. These templates are very strong. Or look, maybe this is all a coincidence and you just happen to date to people who got involved with other guys and you didn't necessarily create that situation or have a hand in it. But how you're responding to these situations, the wound that's been activated by both of them, that's your piece of this. And again, I'm not saying that's what's definitely happening. I'm not trying to diagnose you. I'm just fascinated by these patterns, and I want to give you a few things to consider. So back to Frank and your fiancé. Some things obviously not working. You guys need to talk. And what you need to talk about, in my view, is what her relationship with Frank is really about?

What are they doing? What is their goal together? Whether Frank is even the right person to be helping her. Why does her opinion of him keep changing like the wind? What's all this conflict about it? That whole thing is odd to me. Yeah, that's odd to me too. And I think really what they need to talk about is why is she hiding?

Why is she hiding so much of this relationship? Why is she kind of avoiding these conversations? Is it really to protect you? Or is it because there actually is something going on? Yes. And you guys need to talk about how you guys communicate, which to me is really the crux of this whole problem. Because if everything was on the table, we wouldn't be here right now.

And, you know, when he has this conversation with her, I think he needs to make it safe for her, to be honest. with him, you know, which means being willing to hear some potentially difficult stuff. If she does have feelings for Frank, it would be really good for you to know that now, as painful as that would be. Or if she struggles with your response to certain things, that would be really good feedback for you. But you got to invite her to be candid, and you have to be willing to bear that stuff. My strong feeling, just to be very blunt, is that you guys really need to hash this out before you get married. Oh my gosh. Definitely, definitely, definitely before you get married.

married, please. I mean, this isn't going to get better, right? This is going to get worse if you guys don't work through it. Also, this is your second go-around as a couple. You broke up once before, you got back together, now things are rocky again. I don't know. There's a history here of struggling to stay connected. And I don't just mean by geography, like by distance. I mean emotionally when things get a little hard. And I just would not get married until you guys really understand why that's happening. Absolutely. And if you need help doing that, I would definitely recommend couples therapy. I think it's really important. So this is our take. I don't know if this is the end of the road, but for me, it would be enough to hit pause, certainly on the wedding plans. I don't mean to

alarm you. I just want you to be clear-eyed about this and set yourself up for the best possible marriage. There are so many moving pieces here. There's you, there's her, there's Frank, there's this book, if it exists, there's this engagement, there's your histories, it's a lot. But from where I'm sitting, the solution to all of this boils down to being honest, being fair, being clear with yourselves and with each other. So lean into this, start talking, get on the same page, and we're wishing you all the best. You know, it's a great use of those imaginary book royalties, Gabriel.

The awesome products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the links, deals, and discount codes, ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger.com, You can also search for any sponsor on any episode of the show using the AI chatbot on the

website as well. Thank you so much for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. This next segment is sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks to Hesu Joe, head of clinical operations at Better Help. All right, Gabe, take it away. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. A year and a half ago, my dad passed away from cancer. We found out he had it. A week later, he was in hospice, and a week after that, he was dead. His death obviously had us all really hard, as he was the leader of our family. I know it's been especially hard on my mom, but she's not the type to show or talk about it. That's not really how our family roles. Since then, my siblings and I try to get together more often and do more family things with her.

My mom enjoys spending time with my brother and sister's kids, and my aunts have also been spending more time with her. We all genuinely have fun together, even my mom, I think, although we all miss my dad very much. Over the holidays a few months ago, we got together for our traditional family Christmas candy-making day, which is a fun ritual where we have a drink and laugh and have a good time. During the party, my mom asked me to go get something from her room. I walked in and it looked exactly as it did when my dad was alive. Everything is in the exact same place as if he were still living there. I really want my mom to move on with her life and I know my dad would too.

She's very stubborn, and she absolutely will not see a therapist. If someone suggests it, she'll resist it. I saw a therapist for a few months after all of this happened. I actually used better help with your code, but I haven't found a good opportunity to bring that up as a way of getting my mom to try it. What can I do to help my mom process my dad's death and move forward with her life? Signed, helping a bereaved mom grieve at 2X the speed. Oh man, I am so sorry to hear about your dad.

This must have been a huge loss for you all. And super intense. It happens so quickly. This is a major life transition to go through. And I'm sure it's been uniquely difficult for your mom, especially since she's not the let me open up and unburden myself type from the sound of it. I got to say, though, it's really touching how much you care about her. She's lucky to have you looking out for her.

Y'all seem like a close-knit family, a loving family, which is awesome. We wanted to consult with an expert on your question. So we spoke with Hesu Joe, licensed marriage and family therapist and head of clinical operations at Better Help, the world's largest online therapy service. You've heard of them. They sponsor the show. And the first thing Hesu said was, it's hard for us to know exactly how your mom is feeling these days, which is really going through.

Because grief, it's such a personal process, right? It's unique. It's mysterious. It's cyclical. As Hesu put it to us, there's no one timeline that says, you must move through this milestone of grief by this time. Everyone processes lost differently. So, while I love that you want to help your mom move forward with her life,

you might have to slow down here a little bit and remember that your grief might look very different from your mom's grief. Your timeline might be very different from her timeline. Hasu pointed out that your grief as a daughter, that might be different from your mom's grief as a decades-long spouse. Both are very intense, very meaningful, but they are. are different. So you're not wrong for wanting her to move forward, but the fact is she just might not be ready to do that, or she might not need to do that, or she is doing that in her own way internally

and you just don't know. The bedroom might only be telling you part of the story. Right. I think that's a really good point. Now, I imagine that that's a little hard to make peace with because you don't have a good grasp of what your mom wants or needs. If she could talk more, you would have a better sense of where she is in the grief process, and you might take some comfort in knowing that even if she's not moving on, she's at least working through it in some way. And you would be able to go, oh, okay, mom's keeping the bedroom exactly as it was because, you know, she doesn't want to lose her connection to dad or whatever her reasoning might be. And you could just let her do her thing. But Hesu highlighted something important here too, which is if your mom doesn't want to talk openly,

if she doesn't want to go to therapy, then you can't force her to. And maybe that's the deeper theme of your letter, just accepting your mom for the very guarded, very internal, sort of mysterious person she is in many ways, which let's just acknowledge that can be super frustrating. And I'm sure it makes you feel like you're on the outside of your mom's experience, which when you care about somebody as much as you care about her, that's a really tough place to be. But it might just be where you are, at least for now, while your mom moves through this chapter, the only way she knows how. Really fair point, but all that said, Hesu wondered whether your mom really isn't moving forward with her life in her own way. Because, sure, she might have been keeping the bedroom exactly how it was because she's stuck in her grief and cleaning to the past.

But she might also have kept it that way because cleaning it out, it's a really big project, it's daunting, or because she just likes the room the way it is, or because she's been channeling her energy into other things like spending time with you all. So Hesu's question was, aside from the bedroom, what else are you observing? in your mom's behavior or her mood or general outlook that makes you think she's unable to move on. Are there other signs that she's stuck in her life? For example, if she works, how is she doing in her job? If she doesn't work, how does she spend her time? Is she able to participate in life? Is she taking care of herself? Is she eating okay? Is she sleeping decently? Is she getting outside? She's moving around. If she isn't, then you might be right that she's a little stuck. But if she is,

then your mom might be doing okay, all things considered. She's able to spend time with her family. She's participating in these fun rituals. It's not like she's locking herself in the bedroom and curling up with your dad's favorite sweater refusing to come out. That would paint a very different picture. And hey, maybe it's a mixed bag. Maybe she participates really well and is open to changing her life in some areas.

And in other ways, she withdraws and wants to keep things the same. I think that's probably normal for a person who lost their spouse fairly recently. but wherever your mom is in the process, I 100% agree with you that she'd benefit from opening up to somebody. Yeah, so do I. So Hesu had some great ideas about how to approach her and maybe get around the resistance a little bit. The one big opening Hesu sees here

is that your mom really enjoys spending time with her family. There's probably a lot of safety with you all, a lot of trust, so maybe she can learn to open up in that setting. So Hesu brought up the idea of sharing stories about your dad when you all get together. Maybe you talk about what it's been like since he passed. Maybe you go first and then your siblings and then maybe you invite your mom to share something. You know, show her that it's cathartic to open up about dad, that it's safe to share your feelings and then invite her to do the same.

She might not agree to get on the couch, but she might do some version of that, you know, on her own couch. Another idea has who shared, when you and your mom are hanging out alone, you could open up about the last year and a half. Maybe when you're doing the dishes or you're running errands or whatever, you tell her, you know, mom, this is how I've been feeling about dad since he died. These are the things that have been really difficult for me. This is how I've been working through it. And I wouldn't put her on the spot too much. You know, I wouldn't say, okay, I told you how I'm feeling.

Now it's your turn, mom, you know, go. But just by opening up, you might give her permission to dip her toe in the water. Show her that nothing bad is going to happen if she's a little more vulnerable. Hesu said your best bet might be to model for her. what it looks like to open up and just make some space for her to talk if that's what she wants to do. Another idea has her had,

you could suggest sprucing up your mom's bedroom together. You know, like, hey, mom, I know you haven't changed your room since dad passed away. I'm sure it's a big thing to think about. Would you like some help? Maybe we can go through his things, decide what you want to keep,

maybe start to make it feel more like your room. If she's like, absolutely not, I'm not ready for that. I like my room the way it is. Then you know she's not ready and you should probably back off. but if she's like, well, maybe I guess I should go through the room, I've just been putting it off,

that might actually be a great opportunity for you to help her. And maybe going through the room together would be a special experience for both of you. And the great thing is, it won't require a ton of talking. You'd be speaking your mom's language a little more, which is doing, and maybe that would be the most helpful thing for your mom. As for the therapy piece, I do like your approach, telling her how therapy has been so helpful,

subtly communicating to her that it's worthwhile, that is smart. But ultimately, this is up to her. There's a world where she never sees someone, and her process never looks the way that you wanted to, and you'll just have to make peace with that. But that's why it's even more important that you continue to surround her with a ton of love, engage her, make some room for her to open up in whatever way she can.

And while you take care of your mom, Hesu also encourages you to keep taking care of yourself. Because as she pointed out, While your concern for your mom is really touching, you are grieving to. And maybe some of your grief gets conflated with her grief, and it can be just hard to know whose grief you're actually processing. Just something to keep an eye on. Again, I am so sorry you had to say goodbye to your dad,

but it does sound like you're doing really well. I'm really proud of you for seeking out support, and I love that you're there for your mom. So we're sending you all a big hug and wishing you and your mom all the best. This segment was sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks again to Hesu Joe, head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Go to BetterHelp.com slash Jordan to help support the show and get started.

Hesu Joe's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Hesu's feedback is in response to a written question and therefore there are likely other unknown considerations given the limited context, any personal opinions about a writer's life choices, as well as any action-oriented advice, come solely from the show. Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing,

beware of self-diagnosis. Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses if that's important to you. See, guys, Feedback Friday is so fun. Even Better Helps Lawyers had fun with it. All right, onward. Next up. Hey, guys.

I was flying home from Phoenix back to North Carolina recently, and the guy next to me on the plane was truly disgusting. He had an oversized shirt in his lap, and he kept lifting it, blowing his nose in it and returning it to his lap. Oh my God, that is so disgusting. Come on, man. That is so gross, man. Wait, so hold on.

Is he wearing the shirt or is this another shirt that he's carrying around? I actually had that same question. Like, is it the shirt that he's wearing that goes down so far that it clumps up in his lap and he can use it as a Kleenex or does he just have another shirt that he got for free and it doesn't fit? So he's like, let me use this as a Kleenex on the airplane in public. I think that's what it is. She said he had an oversized shirt in his lap. So I think it's like another, okay, well,

so basically he's walking around with a giant handkerchief. It's so disgusting. Yeah, so he just has a triple X champion's T-shirts with a bunch of snot slowly drying on it. Okay, I guess that's better than doing it into the shirt he's wearing, but you're still just a vector for all kinds of disgusting stuff. So gross. Yeah, you can't stuff that thing in a Dixie Cup

until the flight attendant comes by, can you? No, I just, I have such a clear visual of this from our friend here's perspective. Just trying to catch up on season two of single drunk female and just clock in this crusty t-shirt from the corner of your eye, make it damn sure it doesn't touch the armrest or any part of her for the duration of the entire flight. So, like 80% of your focus is just making sure you don't get booger elbow. So gross.

So disgusting. Okay, so she goes on, I'm unsure if he was sick or had allergies, but I'm confused how people can be so gross post-pandemic. Seriously. Seriously. Yeah. I love how people have just.

reverted back to their old ways now. Even worse somehow, maybe I'm a germaphobe, but have we learned nothing from the last three years? Just basic hygiene, please. That's it. My usual method of muttering under my breath, things like your grody or sanitation, man. Don't do anything to help the situation.

What is the most tactful way to tell someone that they are disgusting? That's such a good question. What is the most tactful way to tell somebody that they're disgusting? signed a seatmate with her mouth agape at these straight-up primates. First of all, close your mouth on the plane. You never know what's going to fly in there from that oversized Metallica T-shirt. You can't afford to be shocked, really, on an airplane.

It really grinds my gears. We can file this letter under the Humanity is Dumed category. Friken Primates is right, although using that term for this guy is almost an insult to apes who only throw their own feces under certain conditions. Gabe, I feel like all airlines should have a, did you pack your own bags and are you carrying a massive mucus canvas with you? Question. It's a fair question. If you are, you got to get on a special flight.

Just group all these gross neck beardy people together, like a red eye, but just for super gross people that have no hygiene. Like a, what would you call? A green nose? Yeah, green nose, exactly. He's got them on the green nose. All the damn barbarians on one plane, new rule. It's not like there aren't napkins on planes. Just bring a napkin.

Or, you know, if you're sick or you have allergies, bring some freaking Kleenex. You're an adult. There's a box in every airplane bathroom since 1978 or something. This is not rocket science. So look, here's how I deal with people like this. There is the passive aggressive approach, which isn't always ideal, but it can work. Sometimes, you know, you just be like, gross, under your breath, hope they pick up the queue, like, oh, yeah, I'm in public.

But the kinder way to go, which I usually do, is do you need a tissue so you don't have to use that shirt? and almost make a little joke out of it. You know, you're kind of offering something, but really it's a call out. Oh, that's classy. I like that approach. Thank you.

You're calling out the problem, but you're burying it in the solution and you just, you know, hopefully they take the hint. Yeah. Be hilarious, though, if you said that and the guy was like, no, I'm good. I got this T-shirt. Yeah, I got this triple X L Bieber shirt.

Yeah, you know you're really dealing with a real psychopath at that point and you just got to escalate a little. Maybe you go, look, I'm worried that's just going to spread germs everywhere. Let me grab you a tissue. And I've actually said stuff like that before. Just force the issue. And you say it a little loudly. Maybe you make eye contact with the flight attendant. People in the area know something's up. Oh, so you can low-key shame them a little bit?

Low-key shame them, but also, again, that way a flight attendant or a waiter or the old lady behind you or whoever it is might also pick up on this and get a dang tissue. And then problem may be solved. Nice. Okay. I got to be honest. I'm still too afraid to call people out like that, but I clearly need to work on this because it's happening in my own life way too often, and I'm sick of it. It does take practice. This doesn't help if the person's really a pig and it just gives zero shits about other people, though.

Then you kind of just have to deal with it, or you can report it to somebody, but then what's a flight attendant going to do? Like, sir, please use a Kleenex. It's just so awkward. I hate that the normal people in these situations have to feel so uncomfortable, and the primate doesn't think about it at all. I'm still working up to telling somebody that they need to put in earbuds if they're going to watch videos in public,

which, by the way, happened to me again this week at the cafe and it drove me crazy. I think that one might even be harder because that's like your personal preference as opposed to being just plainly disgusting, according to everybody who has three brain cells or more. But to be fair, not my personal preference. I think that's everybody's personal preference. What? You're not interested in a 17-minute full-volume video of that person's grandkids screaming at a barbecue? I mean, I guess I understand.

Not my favorite soundtrack, no. It was the same guy I told you about last time. It's like he's a repeat offender and he always chooses the table right next to me at this cafe, which is maddening. I almost had an aneurysm, but maybe I need to take your approach and just be like, hey, bud, do you need some AirPods so you don't ruin my day? Right. Maybe bury it in the solution. What you could do is get an old earwax-crusted pair of wired headphones and just give it to him. And he may use those because he doesn't care about anything.

Probably also. Just give them away. Here you go. Here you go, yeah. You know, and if he doesn't want to use him, you can be like, you could always. turn the volume down. I don't know. That's true. Look, I get why that makes you feel like a dick. Whereas telling someone on an airplane that they should blow their nose with an actual Kleenex instead of a cable-knit sweater, it's a lot easier. It's a lot easier. It's a public health thing,

man, basic decency. The world we live in, I just, I can't, can't with these people. This is our country now. We can't even figure out Kleenex. And these people are supposed to pick the president. Don't even get me started. Weird way to end feedback Friday. Sorry about that. But look, if you ever find yourself on a flight like this again, maybe bring a few of our sponsors products with you. Honestly, you could, remember Taser? Shameless, shameless capitalist. I'm thinking more like Taser, not like a Kleenex brand.

Honestly, you could get most of them to deal with a dude like this. We got sheets, we got underwear, we get personal grooming packages, many things you could blow your nose in and or just get tased and go to sleep. Look, we have financial products. Those could come in handy somehow. That's right. I don't know how. Clean up your seatmate's face with a.

Charles Schwab bank account. 4.5% interest in your first 10 bugger deposits. You know what'll stop you from stabbing your seat mate with a disposable straw, Gabriel. Maximizing your returns with turbotax. We'll be right back. Get that refund and

spend it on a jet charter. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out the episode we did this week with Ellie Honick, if you haven't done so yet. If you want to know how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show. It's about systems, software, tiny habits.

I use them every single day. Our six-minute networking course is something I'm sharing with you for free. I don't need your credit card. It's not one of those tricky things. It's over there on the thinkific platform at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty, build relationships before you need them, maintain them in a real sort of low-key, non-shmoozy, non-gross way. Again, freejordanharbinger.com slash course. Show notes for the episode at Jordanharbinger.com, transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show are all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can also ask our AI chatbot about anything, any question, any answer from Feedback Friday, any interview, any promo code, Jordan Harbinger.com slash AI.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, and you can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbhawin. Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you

hear on the show so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with an undercover FBI agent posing as an Islamic terrorist. I live with and grew up with the religion of Islam. After 9-11, and knowing full well that this was not the religion that was being portrayed, it kind of broke me a little bit inside. I was in law enforcement. I spoke Arabic. I'm a Muslim.

And my knee-jerk reaction was to simply help working undercover. It definitely is an adrenaline rush, unlike anything. I could describe, putting your arm around someone, telling them that you're their best friend, getting them to believe you. But what attracted me a great deal to this case or what blew my mind about this case was the fact that he was arguably one of the smartest, most brilliant men I've ever been in front of. This guy was on the precipice of curing infectious diseases. The shit that he talked about in his work was science fiction to me. How could someone so smart, So brilliant.

Such a gift to humanity. Turn into a fucking killer. An absolute disgusting piece of garbage overnight. He was the epitome of evil. So we're going up to his apartment. And it was right next to Ground Zero. And he put his arm around and looked up to where the towers were. And he said, Tamara, this town needs another 9-11.

And we're going to give it to him. I've heard him say so much horrible things for so long that you think at that moment in time, I could have just accepted it and gone up and did my job, but I couldn't. I imagined killing him right there and then. I imagine stabbing him in the eye with a pen I had in my pocket and leaving him for dead. To hear more from Tamer El Nuri about what drew him to the exciting and dangerous life of undercover law enforcement work, check out episode 572 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast.

Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. recently they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting.

So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.