The Jordan Harbinger Show - 861: 35 and Chaste — Is It Too Late? | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

At 35, how do you disclose your virginity on a date that might lead to sex without ensuring the continuation of said virginity? Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: If you want to keep up with the wisdom from our 800+ episodes and apply it to your life, subscribe to our Wee Bit Wiser newsletter at jordanharbinger.com/news! You're 35 and you've never had sex. How do you disclose your virginity during courtship with a potential partner without scaring them off and ensuring the continuation of this unfortunate trend? Should you maintain a friendship with your college buddies whose partners alienate your wife? They acknowledge the issue but don't seem to care. You support your daughter's use of therapy, but you wonder if maybe weekly appointments, emergency sessions, and direct access to her therapist might be bordering on excessive. Can therapy be addictive? [Thanks to clinical psychologist Dr. Erin Margolis for helping us with this one!] Your ex-wife endured you at your worst, and you'd like to help her financially now that you're successful on multiple fronts. Is this appropriate, or should you consider doing so anonymously? After working through the pandemic as a registered nurse pulling 10-12 hour shifts seven days a week, you're finding it difficult to reintegrate into a society that feels like it's moved on and left you behind. How can you find your place again? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/861 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday, producer, the psychological blacklight illuminating these invisible patterns of life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi. You know, black lights illuminate a lot of stuff.

Patterns is just one of those things. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a, a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations

with a variety of amazing folks from former cult members, arms traffickers, Russian spies, astronauts, and the occasional Emmy-nominated comedian. This week, we had Bradley Sherman on demographic decline in China, Russia, and even the United States, basically how our populations are all shrinking

and what we can do about it. And the spoiler is not a whole lot, and some of these countries are completely screwed in the next coming few decades, and it's going to be interesting. And we had Mitchell Proferro on the rising tide of cocaine and violent organized crime in Europe. And in that feel-good theme, we also had our skeptical Sunday on fast fashion and the destruction that it does to commerce and the environment, among other things.

A couple of feel-good international episodes this week. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play, obnoxious soundbites, and mercilessly roast my co-host Gabriel for his appearance and or life choices. And before we jump in, I just wanted to let you know that we have relaunched the next newsletter for the show. It's called We Bit Wiser. And it's basically a bite-sized gem or two from a past episode from me to you delivered right to your inbox once a week. So if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our 800-plus episodes and apply it to your life in a very practical way, I invite you to come and check that out. You can sign up for it at jordanharbinger.com slash news. And of course,

you can reply to that newsletter and tell me what you want or what you don't want because I don't really know what the hell I'm doing with email stuff. So I invite you to give me constructive criticism or passive aggressive nonsense, which is what I often get in my inbox. As always, we've got fun ones. We got doozies. The doosies are always the fun ones, though. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 35-year-old virgin. Oof. The oof, just to be clear, was in the letter. I wasn't adding the oof. Okay, I thought you were just being a complete dick to the guy after one line of writing. Not my style. I mean, we can't not bring up some Steve Carrell as a result of this.

It was like a bag of sand. I'm a 35-year-old virgin. Oof, this is not due to any personal or religious philosophy. It's just never happened for me. My first date ever was two years ago. Yes, at age 33. It just wasn't the right fit. My second date was a year after that.

Things went well, but as we were parting ways, I told her I didn't want kids. I didn't want to waste her time if that was important to her. She said she wasn't sure but wanted to keep her kid options open. So that ended. Point being, I don't get a lot of chances, which makes my question such a delicate one. At this point in my life, I assume my first sexual encounter will happen with a girl who has already had sex, maybe even a lot of it. I've heard of people ending their relationship because of bad sex, so I feel that if I tell the person, hey, I've never done this before, so improvements will be made.

I could temper expectations and do some preemptive damage control. But then I'm also afraid that they could change their mind and the sex won't happen, thus perpetuating the problem. On the other hand, if I say nothing and the sex is bad, they might end the relationship thinking I'm just awful, when the truth is I'm just new. When slash if this day comes, should I tell the person I'm a virgin before we have sex?

Or do I just roll the dice and see what happens? signed Afraid to Impeed or Mislead when I've never done the deed. Wow, okay, this is a fascinating situation. You are a real life Steve Carell here, the 35-year-old virgin. You're by no means the only person in this situation, but it is a somewhat unusual one.

This conversation is obviously bringing up a lot of anxiety for you, which I can definitely appreciate, and I want to thank you for having the courage to write in about it. It's funny. I know you're asking about whether to tell a woman this before you sleep with her, but I'm tempted to talk about how you ended up here. Zero judgment, of course, just curiosity, because that's super interesting too, and I think they might be related.

Let's see if we can come back to that at some point. I think so. So should you tell a woman you're a virgin before you have sex? I don't know if there's one right answer to that. I think you're well within your rights to share as much or as little about yourself as you want with somebody new. if telling a potential partner this would put you at ease or help address the performance thing, then I think it's fine to share. If it feels safer not to tell her because you don't want it to become a thing and get in the way,

I think that's also fair. My point is, I don't know if there's a huge moral dimension to this. You can always disclose this after the fact, if that feels better. But if you do disclose this in advance, I would be prepared for any number of responses. Some people might go, wow, that's intense. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't know if I want to be your first

because they're feeling casual with the relationship. And other people might go, okay, that's crazy, but no biggie. This will be fun. Thanks for telling me. And I hope that most of the women you meet will be in the second camp, but you just never know how people are going to feel about this. So just be ready. Honestly, I'm leaning toward just not saying anything. At this point, I think it's, frankly, more important that you just have sex and you get it out of the way than you have some sort of good sexual experience for the first time, or that you have it with somebody you're crazy about and you have to be 100% honest with well in advance. I would hate for this piece of news to throw a woman who otherwise wants to jump in the sack. Why get in your own way,

you know? Now, I realize that's slightly controversial and maybe a little complicated because in a way I'm encouraging you to lie by omission or letting people assume something that's not true, or at least withhold the full truth. But it's not an STD, man. Maybe it's unfair to a potential partner, although I don't really see how. It doesn't harm them. Like I said, it's not an STD. You're not going to be like, by the way, I have a contagious STD that you might have now gotten. You know, it's not untreated syphilis. You're just choosing not to tell them your sexual history in advance or lack thereof, which people do all the time, right? Even people who've slept with a lot of people. I don't see guys or women going up to their partner and being like, by the way, you're like

number 112, just so you know. You know, this D has seen a lot of a lot of action. There's no need to do that. Nobody would do that. So I don't see why you can't do the same thing. Now, your objection might be, okay, but I feel like I'm hiding a big part of myself, and that feels wrong. And maybe you're thinking, what if we really click? What if we keep dating? Then do I have to come out and tell her I lied? Is that going to tank the relationship? But my response to that is the woman you do finally lose your virginity to, what are the odds she's going to be the one? Just real talk. What are the chances you two are compatible in every conceivable way and you're going to keep doing things.

Fairly slim, I'd say. That's not a reflection of you or of her. It's just the way it is with dating. And point being, I don't really know how much there is at stake here. My vote is, don't say anything at advance. Just hit pause on that impulse to get out in front of any poor performance. Forget it. In fact, I would lean into that fear and accept it.

And maybe it won't be great. Most people's first time is a little bit messy, no pun intended. It's fine. You don't need to make peace with that. just have the important milestone. The table doesn't have to be set for this. And if you like the woman you sleep with and you want to see her again and it feels important, then you can always tell her so look, it's a little crazy, but that was my first time,

didn't want to freak you out, didn't want to put a ton of pressure on it. I just wanted you to know because I assume this is going to get better and I'm not going to be like a 17-year-old next time. But also, you might be surprised. It might not be bad at all. It might even be good or fine. And, you know, it's probably not going to be as bad as you're dreading. I think that's important, too, noticing your mind wanting to jump to the worst possible outcome.

Like you're going to, well, I won't get detailed. But you know what I'm talking about. Which brings us back to that first question, right, how he ended up here. Mm-hmm. We don't know everything that brought you to this point. Your history, your personality, your circumstances. There are just so many variables at play here, I'm sure. But I did hear a few things in your email that might contain some clues.

one was that this isn't due to any personal or religious philosophy, it's just quote unquote never happened for you. So clearly this isn't a question of like beliefs or values. It's not for total lack of opportunity because you did have those two dates. Again, impossible for us to know exactly what happened in those experiences, in between those two experiences. So I really, I don't want to speculate too much. But I do wonder if maybe you're overthinking this just a little bit, specifically, overthinking what the other person might want from you. Because in two parts of your letter, that second date with a woman who said she might want to have kids and this hypothetical first time of yours having sex, you're doing a lot of work imagining what things will be like

for the other person. In that other story, it's about whether you would be wasting her time if you didn't want to have children. And in your first time sleeping with somebody, it's whether you need to get out in front of the possibility that it won't be good. And look, I'm I want to be very clear about this. This is not inherently bad or a mistake. I actually think this speaks to a really wonderful quality in you, which is this genuine concern you have for other people. You're an empathic guy. You're thoughtful. You're respectful. It's awesome. But what I am appreciating is that sometimes that empathy and concern, I think they come at your expense, or they create roadblocks where they really don't need to be any. For example, you could have built on that

good first date with that woman and had another one and another one and continue. getting to know each other and then eventually shared the thing about not wanting kids after a few dates, or when she brought up the question, if that was even a concern for her. Just like when you sleep with someone for the first time, you can keep your history to yourself. And if there's a good reason to disclose it after the fact, you can tell her then, rather than disqualifying yourself in advance by volunteering that information up front. At which point, she would probably like you, and it might not even matter as much as you think. So that's the quality that seems to be the common thread among all these experiences. A hyper awareness, a hyper concern, you're almost

pre-apologizing for parts of yourself in a way that might not be necessary or even appropriate. And that might speak to something more fundamental about you, ways in which you might feel that you're a liability to other people or that you're not worth their time or that you're going to disappoint them, all of which, yeah, can make it very hard to connect with people and might even make you avoid other people because these interactions feel, you know, so fraud. Yeah, it's almost like, here's all these things that are wrong with me and why sex is going to be terrible and all the, all the reasons our relationship might not work out. Let me know if you want to hang out again and they're like, oh, now that you're unselling it, there's a part of me that

wonders if he's just subtly disqualifying himself to avoid having to see these relationships through. And I understand that quite well myself. When I was younger, I used to talk myself out of a lot of stuff because I would just not want to deal with it. Some of it was like stress and possible depression, 20-20 hindsight and dealing with it or being like, this person is not perfect, so I'm probably not going to marry them. So why date them at all? And that's a terrible attitude to have. I would do that a lot to myself. And I was in a 35-year-old virgin, but I guess if I made a habit out of this, I probably would have waited a really long time to date anyone. It was just only because I started to just be like, this is weird and lonely that I stopped doing

that. And this is in my 20s. So I came to the realization a little earlier. But like he has this date. It goes pretty well. They're saying goodbye. He decides that's the moment to say, hey, by the way, I don't want to procreate. Not sure if that's a deal breaker, but I'm throwing this wrench into the machine because why not? Right, which becomes a deal breaker. But in a way, the bigger deal breaker might be going on a date with somebody who drops that bomb as you're saying goodbye after one date without any more context and without having strong feelings for them. Right. Exactly. It's easy to write someone off with very different goals when you sipped one glass of pino griege for 55 minutes and called it a night.

Right. Or there's also the possibility that she's like, yeah, weird you're even thinking about that, dude. I just kind of wanted to meet you because my friend Angela said you were cute. And I thought maybe we could sleep together a few times before I moved to Albuquerque. But now you're like really way ahead of the- Why are we talking about this? Yeah.

Why are you throwing it like way to just kill the lady boner? I'm out. Whereas if he had just let the good vibes continue, as they said goodbye and text it her the next day and had another couple dates, I mean, who knows? But that might have been the woman that he finally broke the seal with. I mean, why not, right? Excellent point. You know, in either theory, he's finding ways to distance himself or to create obstacles and questions that don't need to be there. Yeah, and I think it's an unconscious process.

This is a great thing for him to now then see. And that's why I'm really glad that you reached out. I know it's not easy to talk about this, but I really admire it. and I know that it's the first step toward untangling some of these knots and clearing the runway for yourself. So my advice is keep staying open, get on the apps, go talk to people at parties, get set up by friends, however you meet people. And then when you notice this urge to put some distance between you and the other person or flag a problem that doesn't need to be flagged just yet, notice that, check back in with yourself, remember this episode, and try to hang in the moment a little bit more.

Look, you got all the time in the world to overthink things after you become intimate with somebody. I promise you. This is not where the process ends. But right now, I just think it's important that you have this experience with the right person when the time is right or not and just kick the rust off, man. I mean, maybe you get a little bit loaded and do the no-pants dance with somebody who isn't super significant in your life. And as long as you're being safe and everybody wants the same thing, that is going to be fine too.

all you really need is one experience to just put this issue to bed, literally. So we're rooting for you, man. Go tap into your inner Steve Carell and get it done. You know it's going to give you the ride of your life. The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going.

To learn more and get links to all the discounts you've heard on the show so you can check out the sponsors for yourself, visit Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.

All right, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I recently got married to my long-distance girlfriend of four years, who's from Brazil. She's a really caring person, and we have a great relationship. The only issue is, every time I meet up with my college friends,

their girlfriends and wives alienate her. Initially, I thought this was due to the language barrier. She didn't speak much English at first. Now she's conversational, and I'd say she's at an intermediate level. I asked my wife to have a few questions ready to break the ice, but the last time we hung out with these friends, I sensed that the other girls didn't want to talk to her. They greet her, then they huddle together.

My friend's partners don't seem to have friends outside this group, and I can see why now. My college buddies are always kind to my wife, but it's starting to bother me that their partners aren't. My wife said she doesn't really care and doesn't mind staying home when we have a get-together, since it seems to be impacting me more than her. Although I think that's selfless of her, I'm starting to think that this will take a toll on my friendship with these guys.

I've talked to my buddies and they agreed that their partners do this, but they haven't addressed it. They don't really seem to care. Should I continue to be friends with these guys? Or should I keep my distance? Signed, protecting my bride from this insular tribe. interesting. So it definitely sounds like your friends partners are not being super welcoming to your wife or very thoughtful about her. And yeah, that sucks. It probably says way more about them than it does

about your wife. Like you said, they don't seem to have friends outside this group when you're starting to understand why, which it sounds to me like they're very insular and frankly a little bit boring and not very open to new people. Or maybe they just don't want to make the effort with the language barrier and they just don't have the energy or desire to make an effort with somebody new. I don't know. I don't I don't know. It's so weird to me, though, because when I meet somebody from another country at a party, they're always the first person I want to talk to. Yeah. Look, oh, you moved here from Rio de Janeiro. I want to hear all about that place. We only see what we see in the news. Now you live here. What are the differences that you see? What are the weird quirks you see from Americans that you love slash hate?

You know, I want to know about all that stuff. Totally, especially because he says she's super caring and selfless and they have a great relationship. I mean, she sounds awesome. If people took the time to get to know her, they would find that too, I would imagine. Plus, you know, when you make friends from another country. If you get close, you can go travel to that country with them, and it's a totally different experience. So there's a little benefit there if you develop a close friendship that has that extra layer of fun in it. I will never understand people who push that kind of thing out of their life. My guess is that these other women, they're not great, socially speaking. It takes patience and some social grace to engage with somebody who doesn't speak your language fluently. You have to

want to do that. You have to be the kind of person who's flexible and interested in people who are different from you. And man, growing up in the Midwest, we're not all like that, but a lot of people are just not interested. They don't care. And it's all alien to them. And to be fair, it might have been really hard to engage with her when she first arrived and barely spoke English. Maybe his girlfriend is also a bit of a wallflower. Maybe those questions she prepared fell flat. That can be awkward for everyone involved. So your girlfriend does have to make the effort here too, which it sounds like she's already doing, and I know how hard that is, too, from living in a bunch of other countries myself. But as her English gets better, it'll get easier for her to overcome the self-consciousness,

break into new friend groups, draw people out, read social cues, learn to talk about herself, all that stuff. So this is probably the hardest period, socially speaking, and she's probably still figuring out her social identity in this new culture, and that is a big transition. So, should you continue to be friends with these guys, or should you keep your distance. Well, I mean, I can understand your conflict because on the one hand, these guys aren't alienating your wife. They're nice to her. It's their partners who aren't being very cool. On the other hand, they're not really helping their partners realize that they're icing out your wife and that's hurtful to you. Right. I'm guessing it makes him feel like they're not really on his team or maybe it makes

him paranoid that they secretly share the same opinion, which yeah, not a great feeling. Yeah, but is it really on these guys to like force slash coach their wives and girlfriends how to be nice to somebody from another country, would they even listen? Right. A lot of guys are oblivious to that sort of mean girl stuff, and it's a waste of time to even try to get involved some of the time. I'd like to think that if one of them had said to their partner, you know, I think Maria's feeling a little hurt, a little left out.

She's Greg's wife. We love Greg. Maybe we try to include Maria a little more. Maybe they'd make more of an effort. But then it just feels like middle school bullshit. Yeah. And if they're not being cool to your wife because they want to be cool to your wife, then, I mean, it sounds like she doesn't even really want to hang.

with these ladies. Like, that's not a good feeling either. Right. Like, all right, we'll let her come to the juice bar after we'd go to yoga. Like, don't do many favors. Thanks for the pity invite. Right. Yeah. If this is for me, I'm like, no thanks. Not my people. Which it sounds like that's kind of her response at this point, and I get it. These are not the only women she can be friends with in the United States. So my gut is telling me you can certainly continue to be friends with these guys if your friendships with them are still meaningful. And you can see them in their partners without your wife. If she's not feeling this group, I think that's fair. And if they're like, where's Maria?

You can be like, well, she has other stuff to do. The women will get it. And they'll be like, well, we didn't like her anyway. So who cares, man? I get it. But if this whole thing has revealed new sides of these guys, for example, maybe you're realizing your friend group is not very tolerant or they're rigid or they're not empathetic to other people or they're racist or something, the guys as well

as the gals, then I understand why you need to pull away. Because then we're not just talking about a personality fit. We're talking about values. And you being married to somebody who's being treated a certain way by this social circle, that might really bring into focus some of the values you might not have fully appreciated before. I think that's a really good point, Jordan. So, you know, I guess my thought there is, do you see similar behavior from them in other parts of your relationship? For example, do these guys do something similar in your circle with new people?

Do you feel like they don't have your back in other ways? You know, do you feel misunderstood or unappreciated by them in general? If so, those would be reasons to reevaluate. these friendships. You might not have to drop these guys entirely because of your wife, but maybe you only stay close to the one or two who are really cool, or you don't spend quite as much time with them. Look, maybe you just adjust your expectations of what this group can offer you and your wife. Either way, I would keep an eye on both sides of this equation. You know, how other people respond to your wife and also how your wife operates in these social situations, to Jordan's point. Because again, people should go out of their way to make a new person, especially a new person from another

country feel welcome. But a lot of people are not like that. And part of your wife's job, whether it's fair or unfair, is to learn how to ingratiate herself with new people in this country. Indeed, this is something, or forsooth, for that matter. This is something I had to learn when I was bumming around the world in my 20s, fumbling my way through different languages and cultures. It's a skill, it takes time. And maybe as she does that, she'll find that people are more receptive to her. Give that a go. And then you guys are going to know whether these friends are the right once. And hey, maybe you ask her to bring you to Brazilian expat events in your city. You make some new friends. I bet it'd be fascinating to be on the other side of this situation yourself and see what

that's like. I love your wife's courage and tenacity and learning English. It's not an easy transition. It sounds like she's doing pretty great. I'm wishing you both the best. Gabriel, this reminds me of my time when I lived in former East Germany. It's the 90s. I was a teenager, 17 years old, whatever. My host mother and I didn't get along that well because she didn't speak English at all. She was a German teacher, like, as a literature. And she just didn't really understand me. She grew up in East Germany.

She understood a little bit of Russian and German, and that was pretty much it. And she was like, I just washed this punk's clothes and cook for him, and he's, like, silent and kind of a pill. And I don't need a teenager. I already have a teenager. And then one day, the volunteers who were taking care of us were like, you need to experience all of German society,

go to the grocery store, don't skip out on little mundane daily activities. And I was like, that's a pretty good idea. So my host mother was like, I'm going to go to the grocery store. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go with you. And she was like, what? Okay, great. So I go to the grocery store with her and we're having a hilarious time because she's trying to talk to me and I can't understand her, but I'm looking at things laughing

at different products that don't make any sense. We're just having kind of a funny time and bonding a little bit in a way that we can. And on the way home, we're walking out and she's trying to talk to me, but she can't. And I'm trying to talk to her and she doesn't understand. and this guy comes sprinting up behind us. He looks like a thug. He clearly had stolen something, and we see the manager and security chasing him out of the grocery store.

And it was like a movie. Some idiot with a cart not paying attention shoves the cart in front of the manager and the security, so the guy gets away, and they're like, you moron. And we were looking at each other and laughing and talking. And when we got home, we both told the story, her in German and me and English, and after that, we were totally buddies. was like immediate sort of funny bonding moment because we had this almost like an inside joke.

And I was like, you know, she's not so bad. I should probably learn how to be more of a not a pill in her house while she takes care of me. And her and I really bonded really, really well right after that. I just made an extra effort and she made an extra effort. And that was all it took. It was it. She was an amazing sort of second mom for a long time. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

Keep your emails concise. try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, you're dealing with the legacy of literal incest in your family, or you were blackmailed by a scammer who might make it impossible for you to travel abroad. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

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Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I have a grown daughter who's seen a therapist once a week for over three years. She had a difficult childhood when I divorced her father. He used his suicidal tendencies to manipulate her into taking care of him emotionally, saying that I was going to find her a new dad and that he would just disappear. if she didn't want to see him. I didn't find out about this until years later, and I support her in seeking treatment to help her sort out her emotions. Since then, she's been able to set boundaries with the people in her life, including me, which is a good sign. She's recently graduated with her third

master's degree and is a very skilled and thoughtful elementary school teacher. She has many friends, and has maintained relationships with our extended family. I can see that she's successfully navigating her life. Recently, though, she broke up with her boyfriend of a few months. She was able to use her support group via friends and family, but immediately set up an emergency therapy session, even though she sees her therapist every week. She has her therapist's cell phone number, and it seems that she's able to contact her therapist whenever she wants.

I know you're both huge advocates of seeking therapy, and I agree with you. Therapy is useful for unwinding past trauma and learning tools to move forward in life. But is this a normal counseling relationship? Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit excessive? Is it possible to become addicted to therapy? Signed a mom with some questions about these additional sessions.

So this is a great question, and I really appreciate how respectful you're being about your daughter's journey, while also acknowledging some legitimate questions you have about her treatment. There's a lot going on in this letter, so yeah, let's dive in. Of course, we wanted to run all this by an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Aaron Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show. I'm also known to the people who know me the best as the fucking doctor. And Dr. Margolis confirmed immediately, yes, your daughter's relationship with her therapist

sounds totally normal. In her view, it's absolutely appropriate to ask a therapist for additional support temporarily while you're dealing with an acute stressor, like, say, breaking up with a partner. She also said that it's normal to be able to reach a therapist outside of session, depending on the type of therapist and therapy, of course. When we talk about BetterHelp, you can chat with your therapist and send them notes and stuff like that, so it seems pretty normal. Now, Dr. Margolis did say that if they're having full-on therapy sessions via text

or talking for an hour on the phone outside of session or whatever, that could potentially be a question mark. But again, that depends on the therapist and type of therapy. for example, in DBT, which is dialectical behavior therapy, there's often more contact between patient and therapist between sessions. It's part of the modality, NBD, no big deal, but we don't have enough information to know if that's what's happening here. It sounds like it isn't, and texting or calling a therapist for some quick support

or to set up an additional session, it's just not inherently bad or inappropriate, but Dr. Margolis zeroed in on something very important here, which is, your daughter has a unique history. It sounds like she had a very turbulent, confusing relationship with her father to say the least. This tragic story about her dad, look, it touches on loss, grief, confusing boundaries with a key male attachment figure.

This is very intense and complicated stuff, and I'm sure it had a profound influence on her. Right, this breakup, it's possible that it's not just a breakup, right? It could be activating other stuff for her that is more historical than just this one relationship. Exactly. So imagine how difficult losing a relationship. relationship would be for somebody like your daughter who had all this crap with her dad.

Right. So as Dr. Margolis put it, it might be very therapeutic for her to have a therapist say, look, I'm available when you need me, that they're available to her more than 50 minutes or 45 minutes each week. I thought it was interesting when you said that therapy is useful for unwinding past trauma and learning tools to move forward in life. Look, that's absolutely true, of course. But it's also about more than that.

It's about navigating the ups and downs of life. It's about exploring new questions and challenges that arise along the way. And it's about investing in the relational aspect of therapy, the relationship between client and therapist, which is incredibly valuable. There's that crucial element of attachment, again, which is part of the reason that it's not unusual for people to be in therapy long term, sometimes in and out over the course of their lives. So in Dr. Margolis's view, if your daughter's feeling comfortable enough to reach out to

were therapist in a time of need. That's almost certainly a good sign. Also, let's remember that you're not in the room with your daughter in therapy. You don't know what she's talking about. You don't know what this breakup has brought up for her or what else might be going on in her life. You just don't know what she really needs therapeutically. Yeah, she's probably complaining about you because you're a mom. I'm joking, but not joking. You really can't truly know whether she needs therapy or how often. It's not really up to you. Now, that said, it's also a therapist's job to set the boundaries, to determine what's appropriate, to work with the client to decide when they're ready to be done with therapy. But again, their job, not your job. But look, this is an interesting

question. Can somebody become addicted to therapy? I wondered that myself, actually, when you brought it up. And Dr. Margolis's take there was, addicted to therapy? It might not be the best phrase. Maybe a better way to put it is, hanging around in therapy when it's no longer useful? In her experience, therapy can become unhelpful when a patient has achieved all their therapy goals or doesn't have any more relevant symptoms to work on and it's just kind of going to therapy to go to therapy. For example, if a patient who's severely depressed is using therapy as a reason to leave their house because they have no other activities, or if a patient has no friends and they're using therapy as their social hour, or if going to therapy becomes its own

type of avoidance, like a patient is too daunted by life to deal with it on their own and a sort of codependency develops between client and therapist, those are some broad examples of when therapy probably isn't all that helpful anymore, or at least not helpful in ways that it should be helping. That's when a good, ethically appropriate, legit therapist should say to a client, hey, I'm happy to see you every week, but I'm wondering if our sessions are still helpful to you. So let's talk about that. But again, probably not the case with your daughter. And here you are still having these questions about her treatment.

So Dr. Margolis felt the better question here might actually be, is there something about your daughter's therapy or her relationship with her therapist? That's bringing up some interesting feelings for you. Not to be all like it's always about you or it's always about how messed up the question asker is, whatever. But for example, is there some fear or anxiety about what all this says about her child? or her personality or you as her mom, does her seeing her therapist more often make you think that she struggles to cope with things on her own

or that a person shouldn't rely on someone else this much? Or Gabriel, I'm also like, if my kids are in therapy, I'm like, God, was I really that bad of a parent? I mean, do you need to go all the time? Is this my fault? Maybe there's something there too. I mean, I think that's very normal. I think that's very common.

But, you know, another interesting question is, is there possibly an element of envy and or jealousy? here, you know, maybe about no longer being her primary source of support and knowing that her daughter now turns to her therapist first instead of her. Yeah, I could see that. We'll let you decide if any of this fits. And look, I'm asking this just zero judgment. All these feelings, again, are completely normal.

I'm just appreciating what might be happening on your side of the equation. I also thought it was interesting that one of the things your daughter has learned in therapy is how to draw boundaries, you said, including with you, which you said is a good sign. that implies that there was probably a time when those boundaries were not as well defined, which alongside the dad stuff also paints a picture of maybe some messy lines in this family. And look, I love that you're supportive of her separating more. I think that's great. But I also wonder if that's been a little distressing to you in some other ways

and worrying about whether your daughter is doing too much therapy. I know it comes from a good place, but that might also be a way to cross one of those boundaries again, under the guise of care and concern. Right, as opposed to letting her adult daughter determine what's best for herself and support her in that without weighing in too much about whether it's excessive or legit. I mean, if it's true that she feels it's good that she's setting boundaries with her, then it would be a little oversteppy to weigh in on her relationship with her therapist.

But again, it sounds like you're not doing any of this with her. You're privately asking us, privately asking us on a podcast that a lot of people listen to. but, which I appreciate. I'm not dragging you for like having these questions, just noticing that having these questions in the first place might be an early stage in intervening in your daughter's life, if only in your head. So our take here, this is a really great opportunity

to reflect a little bit more about what's so concerning to you about your daughter's therapy, what her needs bring up for you. Dr. Margolis's general insight here was, yeah, trust your daughter. unless you're seeing something really egregious and worrisome, like, I don't know, she's coming home after every session crying about how mean her therapist is or she's turning against you in a way that doesn't feel like healthy separation, maybe something that feels more like manipulation or control,

or she's developing other problematic behavior. She's getting worse overall. Short of you making observations like that, I would pull back and allow her to be in therapy as much as she feels she needs right now. She's going through something unusually intense, especially for her, and in all likelihood, she just needs some additional connection and some additional support to do her work. Your questions are not bad ones, and I'm very confident that they come from a place of genuine caring. And there might be some other meaningful stuff of your own

in the mix, which is your work. Yeah, I agree with that. So go to that and trust that looking after yourselves individually right now is probably the best way to maintain this much healthier relationship you guys have developed over the years. And hey, might not be the worst idea to consider going to therapy yourself, if you're open to it. I have a feeling that bringing questions like this into your own session would be very fruitful. But hey, maybe I'm the one overstepping now. Speaking of overstepping, go support the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing

sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger. com slash deals. And you can always search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. That's been super useful and super cool. Thank you so much for supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, for the last five years of my marriage, I was unemployed, weighed almost 500 pounds, was depressed, and had to move back in with my parents. As you can imagine, this caused extreme stress on my relationship, and I ended up asking for the divorce after one of our big fights. I had gotten it into my head that ending the relationship was going to fix my life.

That, of course, was not the case, and it took me a long time after the relationship ended to get myself back together. In the three years since, I've had intensive and very fruitful therapy. I got diagnosed as both autistic and ADHD, and I got put on testosterone replacement therapy because, as my physician put it, I had the lowest level I have ever seen in a man, your age. I've lost close to 280 pounds without surgery. Wow. And I am preparing to go through skin removal surgery soon. I got my work life back on track, even moving up from where I was, and I've helped start two businesses, which so far are looking to be successful. One of the major things my therapist and I have focused on is feeling my feelings. My default when faced with uncomfortable

feelings has always been to dissociate or compartmentalize them. I had a real issue with going cold. I have worked very hard to force myself to face situations in a more compassionate manner and to really take the time to feel my way through things. Wow. Okay. I just need to stop here and say, this is amazing. You are killing the self-improvement game right now. Yes. What a journey you've been on. I know how hard it is to lose even like 30 pounds, 40 pounds. Losing 280 pounds without surgery is just, your mindset is just pure steel, throwing yourself into therapy, seeking medical help, losing a massive amount of weight, reinvigorating your career, starting two successful companies and on top of all that, learning how to probably do the hardest thing for most of us,

certainly for you, which is feeling the feels and not turning away from your life. So my goodness, man, you are an inspiration and I'm very proud of you. Gabe, carry on. Let's get to the disastrous part that I assume is coming. Yeah, let's see where this goes. So everyone's waiting. They're like, Okay, when does his life fall apart and get worse? Okay. Enough with the hugs, exactly. Yeah. All right, he goes on.

Looking back on these last five years, I now feel a profound sense of guilt. I don't blame myself for being depressed, but I do blame myself for not getting the help I needed sooner. My ex-wife encouraged me to get help, but I was just comfortable enough living off of my parents and wife's income to do anything about it. Also, I ended up abandoning a woman who stuck with me

when I was at my worst, and I feel like I stole five years from her. I now have more money than I've ever had, and the thought keeps coming up that I should give some of it to my ex. We've had no relationship this whole time, but she's working hard and putting herself through grad school, and I know a large injection of funds would help her out. Is that crazy?

Would trying to give her money look weird? Am I trying to put myself back into her life where it's abundantly clear and understandable that I'm no longer wanted? is there a way to give somebody 50 to $100,000 anonymously? Signed, making things right with my hard done ex-wife

by keeping my pockets light. Wow, okay, so basically do I pay reparations to my ex-wife for being a total mess and relying on her and wasting her time for five years and then bailing? Such an interesting question.

And again, I have to say your self-awareness and your humility here are kind of off the charts and they're making it very easy to help you because you've done so much work already and I feel comfortable being very direct with you because of that. So here it goes.

Is it crazy to want to give your ex-wife this money especially at a time when she could really use it? No. I don't think it's inherently crazy. You're certainly allowed to. It's your money. And you might be right. It might make a huge difference in her life.

What you need to do and take a moment and really think about is what are your reasons for doing this? What are your motivations? It's obvious that your primary motivation here is alleviating your guilt. I think that's normal. It's somewhat appropriate. It probably speaks to your empathy and how much bigger your heart has become over the last few years.

Also, there's a practical element to this. You partially lived off your wife's income when you weren't healthy, and now you're in a very different place. And on some level, giving her this money might feel like the ethically right thing to do. And again, through a certain lens, it might be. but through another lens, I'm not totally sure. This impulse to make things right with your wife through the money, I think it glosses over some important nuances to your marriage.

Because I think what's getting lost here a little bit is your wife's role in all of this. And yes, based on what you've shared, you were not an easy husband. You sat back. You maybe took advantage of these comforts. You didn't seek treatment sooner, even though she wanted you to. You left her when she stuck with you through the worst. you feel like you stole five years from her.

I'm not going to argue that. And again, I really appreciate how much accountability you're taking for your life and your actions. It's also true that your wife chose to stay with you and to help support you and tolerate your unhealthy choices and to engage in these big blowout fights

that you guys would have. We don't know how she was behaving in your marriage, how she was showing up. Maybe she was a total angel, but it's also possible that she brought, her own dysfunctioner challenges to the marriage that she had her own issues to work through. You might have been the hot mess, but at a minimum, she put up with that hot mess, maybe for noble reasons, or maybe for more complicated ones. And that was her choice. What I'm getting

at here is there were two people in this marriage, and when you describe this guilt, I hear a guy who's very in touch with his role in all this, but who might be overlooking or discounting his wife's willingness and responsibility in sticking around. Gabe, I don't know about you, but for me, that complicates the picture here a little bit in terms of the guilt. Does this make sense? Do you see what I mean? Yes, yes, yes. So you're saying that his guilt is a little simplistic, maybe a little monolithic, like he's not accounting for some other stuff. Yeah, monolithic is not a word I would ever use in my daily life. But it's not wrong or inappropriate. It just might have some more contours than he appreciates.

Yeah, yeah, contours that might by making room for his wife's responsibility and all this, soften the guilt a little bit on its own. Yeah, you know how sometimes you idealize your ex-girlfriend, and they're like, they're like, they're so great, and then you realize you're just doing that because you feel alone in the moment. I feel like almost this is sort of the same thing. Like, oh, she was so great and I was so bad.

And it's like, well, wait a minute. If you really examine everything, I was the most bad, but she also did these other things that didn't really help either and enabled everything. Yeah, soften the guilt, maybe lessens the pressure he feels to pay her this money. Yeah, if he really sort of had it all laid out,

all the cards were actually on the table. he's going, this is all on me. I'm the A-hole. I'm the messed up one. I did all these terrible things. And the only way to make things right is to zeal her 100 grand. Yeah. But it might be more accurate to say, I did a lot of damage.

I was unhealthy. I was avoiding a lot of stuff. And my wife chose to be married to me. And she had her stuff too. Maybe me more than her. But yes, there were two of us there. And is it really up to me to fix this whole story with this money? Exactly.

And so, yeah, maybe. Maybe it's 50 grand. It's not 100 grand. I'm willing to pay for half your tuition because you were at least 50% of the problem. Exactly. Yeah, we could just calculate the damage like a class action lawsuit. Just what is the price for five years of arguing and terrible sex in your mom's basement? I don't know, 35, 40 grand tops.

I don't know. Yeah, I see your point. He has some work to do in exploring this guilt some more because I think right now he's in touch with the surface of that guilt. And he's being, like you said, very evolved and taking responsibility. but he might also be over-correcting here a little bit. He's grown so much by confronting himself directly, but maybe in the process of doing that, he's lost sight of how other people play a role in his life.

And also, maybe there's a self-esteem component that says, I am not worthy of other people's commitment or love or help, and I messed it up so it must be on me to make up for it and even the scales. I also think we need to acknowledge another big piece here, which is what are his expectations for this money? He's hoping that cutting her a check will help reduce the guilt. To your point, Jordan, he might not need to give her the money to ease that burden. But my question is, does he know for sure that giving her this money will ease the guilt?

Yeah, that's a fair question. Is he placing all his hopes on this money solving the problem for him? And I understand the impulse to just sort of be like, I'm rich now. Let me solve this with money. I get it. He's made this mistake before, right? When he was married, he had gotten it into his head that ending the relationship was going to fix his life. And then he found out, oh, wow, that didn't work.

And I have to go off and do all this work to get better. So part of me wonders, is something similar happening with the money? Is he hoping that the second the transfer goes through, a weight will magically be lifted from his shoulders? Or is it possible that the guilt is going to remain to some degree? The money doesn't change the facts of their marriage and might even make them worse because then he'll have given her this money and he'll still feel guilty. and he'll feel like this one big strategy failed,

and he parted ways with his money, and he's still trying to make things right with his wife. I think that's a crucial question for him to ask himself right now, absolutely. Because we also don't know how she'll respond to this offer. Yeah, that's kind of what I was about to say, because he could offer her the money and she might go, wow, thank you, this is huge for me. Or she might go, no, screw you,

I don't want your dirty money after what you did. Or she might go, that's really sweet, and I want to accept it, but it makes me completely uncomfortable, and it's not going to change the fact that you're a total a-hole that ruined my life for a really long time. And like he said, is he trying to wiggle his way back into her life

when it's abundantly clear that he's not wanted? Right. I think that's another possible motivation he needs to really sit with. Because if I was really making amends, I would say, I want to give her this money, and then I can move on. But he's like, am I secretly trying to worm my way? It's like, well, interesting that you came up with that

because are you trying to do that? Because if you're not, that probably wouldn't have even occurred to you. The fact that he's asking it makes me think that there's at least some part of him that wants back in. Right. This is like the grand gesture where she's like, oh, thank you. This makes up for it. And also, I've missed you so much and look at how different you are. My take on that is whether you guys should get back together or not, whether your ex ultimately wants that or not, I would just put that aside for now and make sure that this offer is not tainted by some other agenda to worm your way back into her life, which I secret. suspect that it is. And that means being very clear about what strings you might be attaching to this money, invisible ones that you might not even see, including the string of, I need you to be nice to me and put up with me now that I'm funding your master's degree. Or you have to answer my text

messages because it makes me feel less guilty. Because that's where this offer could become manipulative. Yeah. Agreed. I also think that if he goes through with this, he should make it a true offer, meaning he should write her a letter or give her a call and say, listen, I've given this a lot of thought, I know you're working hard to put yourself through school. I'm in a much better place now. I would love to help you out because I support you and I appreciate you. And yes, I also would love to make things right. How would you feel about that? Would that be helpful to you? Would that be welcome? And let her decide. Because if he goes ahead and makes a wire transfer without telling her, that could send a certain signal or violate an important boundary between them post-divorce,

especially since she's made it clear that she really doesn't want to have any contact with him. Yeah, I could not agree more, Gabe. So the bottom line, there's more. for you to know about your feelings about this offer, about what you're hoping to achieve here, and I really encourage you to dig into that. There's no rush here. Take a few months, bring this into therapy, figure out the nuances of the guilt, the sense of responsibility, why money seems to be the answer. We can't tell you what to do, of course. There's a world where this money is a beautiful gift and a way to close the circle with your ex-wife in a really touching way, or who knows, maybe to create a friendship with her now that you're in such a different place. But there's also a

world where this money would not be welcome, it won't solve your problems, or where it's tainted with other interests that only create new problems. And that's what you have to figure out. But again, super proud how far you've come. You are so well equipped to think through this and make the right call, and I know that you will. So good luck. And once again, congratulations, man. You lost more than 50% of your weight. Isn't that freaking crazy to even think about? Wild. Wild. Yeah. All right. What's next. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I've been a registered nurse for 25 years in a variety of areas, and when the pandemic started, my staff was responsible for managing our employees with COVID or suspected COVID. I was working 10 to 12-hour days, seven days a week. It was our job to educate

and help the frontline staff conserve their masks and keep themselves safe when resources were very scarce. Now that the pandemic has been declared over, I'm finding myself unsure how to navigate the world again. For example, before the pandemic, I volunteered for an equine therapy organization as an equine specialist. But since I became unavailable, I was replaced, and now they don't have a place for me. It feels as though I've had my head down plowing through the last three years, and I'm just now picking it up again. It feels like everyone around me moved on, and I was left behind to try and figure out my place in the world. I spoke to a therapist. It helped some, but I still feel like an outsider.

How would you deal with this feeling? Or is everything fine and I just need to move on? Signed, an unmoored nurse looking for her place in the universe. Yeah, I think what you're describing here is something so many people feel, myself included sometimes, this feeling that the pandemic distorted time and space, it removed a lot of the familiar structures and markers that made our lives make sense. but that's especially true of frontline workers, doctors, nurses in particular, I can't tell you

how many emails we get from nurses, even still, saying they are totally tapped out, they're still low-key traumatized by the Pan-D, the system is broken, they're quitting, you guys got hit exceptionally hard, which really sucks. This chapter was incredibly intense, and so all the feelings you're describing make perfect sense, especially this feeling of, hey, I had my head down trying to get through the last three years. Now I look up, the world has changed. I feel like I don't have a place. So yeah, there's no simple answer to your question.

And actually, I think you might still be feeling it, even if the pandemic had not been so hard, because that's kind of how life works for everyone. It ebbs, it flows, it gets hard, it gets easier, opportunities pop up, they go away, situations evolve. This change, it's not a part of life, it is life. But I think this is especially heightened for you because your job forced you to go into survival mode,

have tunnel vision, and now you're looking up and around again for the first time in a while, and that's going to be disorienting. Disorienting and also a little sad. Like, I sense that she's quite sad from this letter. I sense that, too. She's still kind of mourning this old life that she had, and it's appropriate to do that. Maybe that's another thing she lost in the pandemic, the time to sit with everything that was changing as it was happening.

And so now she's kind of catching up to how much she's lost, which would be really hard. Really hard, and yeah, totally normal. and necessary and healthy. And in that grief is sadness and probably some anger at the pandemic, at the system that she works in, which was totally messed up by all accounts, and some fear because everything feels unfamiliar now.

So my main thought for you is, first of all, let yourself go through this period that you're going through. Don't fight the feelings too much. They're doing their thing. And while you do that, I would start seeking out some of these experiences that you know give you meaning.

Treat it like a little game. Somewhere out there is a vibe. volunteer position or a class or a hobby or a new friendship, and you just haven't found it yet. They haven't found you yet. You clearly have a lot to offer. And I know for a fact that tons of organizations would love to have a nurse with 25 years of experience on their staff, or that there are other worlds for you to explore outside of these fields. I also wonder, frankly, when's the last time you had a vacation or even a sabbatical to go work somewhere else like a hospital ship or overseas doing something? And yes, this is partly escapism. But,

maybe a good change of pace is just what you need. Maybe you do need to work in a little village that treats kids and just slow down for a few months. I don't know. My larger idea here is, I think you're clinging to what life looked like before and you're disappointed and a little unmoored that it doesn't look like that anymore. And again, totally normal. But I also imagine that mindset is making it hard for you to imagine new possibilities or to

create new opportunities for yourself or reach out to new people or to just be. open to what, I don't know, magically comes along and treat your life as a process and an adventure, which is what it is, rather than as a fixed picture that you need to recreate and rebuild, otherwise you'll feel lost. This is all reminding me of separating from my previous show and business. I was like, I need to run events like we did and I need to sell products like we did. And I need to do this. And it was like, imagine a world in which you don't have to do all the crap you didn't like doing before. And it was scary to do that. It almost felt impossible. It did feel impossible. It's scary to reinvent yourself and step into a whole new version of your life when

what you really want is to go back to what it was before. Yeah, I agree. I'm also very interested in this feeling of being lost because I think that's a universally terrifying feeling for most people, to your point, Jordan, but it's extra hard because everybody else in her life seems to have moved on, which, by the way, I would be very curious to know if that's actually true. I think everybody feels pretty shaken up by the last three years, even if they're not really talking about it that much anymore, but here she is, and she's trying to figure this out, and she feels like an outsider. That outsider thing is also very meaningful, and I'm sure that speaks to this singular experience she's had as a nurse in the pandemic, but I'd also venture to guess that other

thoughts are creating that sense of being an outsider, including maybe that her needs are different from other people, or that she's facing challenges that they are not facing, or that she really is alone in navigating this new chapter, which she definitely isn't. Right, all of which I understand, but I think those feelings get more intense, the more you cling to the past. And less intense, the more you engage with life and seek out new experiences. I agree with that. And so no, our answer is not everything's fine. You just need to move on.

Everything isn't fine. You're a nurse. You know that. And just moving on is not going to make the feelings go away. But working with the feelings, letting them work themselves out while also putting them to good use by seeking out people and experiences that give you meaning and joy and connection. I think that's going to be the name of the game. And some days that might just mean talking about how you feel with somebody you trust, like a friend,

your therapist, a colleague, whatever. On other days, it might mean sending emails to two or three animal therapy organizations saying, hey, I've done this work before. I love your organization. I'd be thrilled to volunteer. Could you use somebody like me? And just see what the world sends back your way.

That's all you got to do. That's all any of us have to do, except and then act in that order, sending you a big hug and all of our confidence that a new chapter is going to open up for you slash already is even if you can't see it quite yet. And just so you know, everyone listening right now is nodding along and thinking, crap, I'm glad that's not just me. We're all weirded out and confused. This is a weird time coming out of a pandemic. Pandemic over or not is just a bizarre time warp. For me, I had kids during that, so that's been double weird. But you know,

bizarre doesn't have to be bad. Hope you all enjoyed the show. I want to thank everybody who wrote in and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Don't forget to check out the episodes with Bradley Sherman on population and demographic decline and Mitchell Prothero on the rising tide of cocaine and violent organized crime in Europe. We also had our skeptical Sunday on fast fashion.

Again, just all sunshine and rainbows this week. The best things that have happened in my life and business have always come through my network in the circle of people that I know and trust, and I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. The course is free, it's not gross, it's not schmoozy, You can find it on the thinkific platform at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course.

The drills take a few minutes a day. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago, teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty and build relationships before you need them in ways that don't make you look like an a-hole. You can find it all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Show notes and transcripts at Jordan Harbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

or Ask Our AI chatbot at Jordan Harbinger.com slash AI. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, and you can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear, on the show. Dr. Margolis's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her and her approach at Dr. Aaron Margolis.com. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Here's what you should check out next on the Jordan Harbinger show. What I tried to do was thank a thousand people who had even the smallest role in making my cup of coffee possible. And a thousand years ago, oh, that's not a lot.

It's a lot. Oh, my God, it was a lot. A hundred people would be a tedious. No, it was way more than I. 10 times that many. Everything we do requires hundreds, thousands of interconnected people and that we take for granted. And just making this mental switch, just from a selfish point of view, is very good because it really does help you appreciate the hundreds of things that go right every day

instead of focusing on the three or four that go wrong. There's a great quote, I wish I'd come up with it myself, but it says it's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than to think your way into a new way of acting. So I had to fake it for a long time. You know, I would wake up in a grumpy mood, but I'd be like, I have to spend an hour calling or visiting people and thanking them. And I'm not in the mood to do that right now. So it was like acting.

It was like method acting. And I would force myself to do it. But I'll tell you, by the end of that hour, your mind, you know, the cognitive dissonance is too much. your mind will switch over to gratefulness. There's a great quote that happiness does not lead to gratitude. Gratitude leads to happiness. Having that mindset really will make you happier.

For more with AJ Jacobs and his fascinating journey to thank everyone involved in his cup of morning coffee and an inside look at just how complex the supply chain of our lives really is, check out episode 174 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should, no podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast, focused format. Mike brings on top experts

and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask, and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people people like you or not. The through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that I want to understand how people in the world really work itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start

listening. You can thank me later.