The Jordan Harbinger Show - 889: Win Against Addiction Uncovers Old Afflictions | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Guilt over stealing from your dad under the thrall of addiction also makes you ponder how his actions influenced your addiction. Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Guilt over stealing from your dad under the thrall of addiction also makes you ponder how his actions influenced your addiction. How do you come to grips with your past to break the cycle of affliction (especially now that the cost of therapy surpasses your budget)? Can you restore trust to a relationship once infidelity and lies are introduced? Perhaps it's more important to wonder: Should you even try? Do you have legal recourse against a law firm that somehow leaked your personal information in an online data breach — although you never did business with them or gave them the info in the first place, and they refuse to answer your inquiries? [Thanks to attorney Corbin Payne for helping us with another sticky situation!] After running the family dojo during your stepfather's cancer treatment and his subsequent surprise departure, he's returned, accusing you and your mother of theft while poaching clients for his own dojo. Do you sever ties, pay the six figures he claims he's owed, or intervene on behalf of his seemingly slipping mental health? You joined your current company because of its values and mission to help people, but you've seen those values shift since the death of its founder. Now the financial bottom line always trumps morality. Is there a way for an organization to strike a balance between give and take? Or should you simply give up and become another cog in the machine? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/889 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday, producer. The only vegan I know, who, to his credit the other day for lunch, asked the waitress to bring him, and I quote, the saddest thing on the menu.

Gabriel, Ms. Rahy. I did do that. And you know what? She was like, oh, you mean the tofu, butternut, whatever? And you're like, yeah, everybody knew what you were talking about. Exactly what I wanted. Yeah. I got what I ordered.

I really did. Yeah, it was nice of her to check, though, even though it was really very clear from the jump. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from organized crime figures and hostage negotiators to astronauts, war correspondents, and tech luminaries. This week we had Andy Clark on how our brain is a perception machine, how it creates our vision of the world around us.

This one will change how you understand your brain and how your brain sees the world. I really found it quite a good mix between the scientific and, I don't know, philosophical, if you can say that. We also had investor and billionaire and partially the inventor of the web browser, Mark Andreson of A16Z, and Dresen Horowitz on the show to discuss AI and why it's definitely for sure not going to kill everyone on the whole point. planet after deciding that we are a terrible scourge on the earth. And finally, a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on flat earthers with Dave Farina. I probably don't need to explain that one. That was about how the earth is definitely not flat, by the way.

On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites and stumble into new reasons for y'all to write us emails about how we are, sometimes simultaneously both left-wing brainwashed snowflakes and right-wing boot-licking shills, which I actually kind of love and consider a badge of honor, especially when those reviews come in one after the other. So the one above it is like, one star, bootlicking shill. And the one below that is like, these left-wain moron snowflakes. And it's like funny. It's probably about the same episode, too, which is insane to me. Those are actually some of my favorite reviews when they're like, left-wing propaganda. Also, wait a victim blame by encouraging people to take responsibility for

their lives. It's like, which one is it? Choose your narrative, folks. The older I get, the prouder I am to be essentially impossible to pin down. Yeah. Or to not at least neatly fall into a bucket. I'm with you. Anyway, speaking of taking responsibility for your life, you seem weirdly happy today. Do I?

Is there something, what's going on? I guess I am. Actually, something funny happened a little bit earlier. Oh, yeah? So today, Jen and the kids and I were in San Francisco, and I don't need to talk about how much that city seems to have gone downhill. But we passed a homeless woman who was sitting in a shopping cart, and she screamed at me,

Holy cow, you're freaking hot. And so, yeah, I bet on Cloud 9 all day because of that. Wait, she actually cat called you from the shopping cart? Yeah, basically. You got a cat called from a Ralph's cart. Wow, amazing. Okay. It might have been safe way, but sometimes we just need to be appreciated, am I right?

I didn't know you and Jen had an open marriage. Anyway, I scooped up my kids as fast as humanly possible and ran away because she was screaming at me and sitting in a shopping cart, which was a little unnerving. All right, as always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies. And I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm in my late 30s, and I'm nearly two years drug-free, and I'm doing really well.

I have my own business, which, although small, is also doing well. My relationship with my kids is fantastic. We are extremely close and loving, and I could not be happier. I've also rebuilt relationships with my old friends. I currently live with my amazing best friend of more than 20 years, and my relationship with my mom and dad is really good. My mom and I are especially close. Okay. Amazing. Congratulations. Sounds like a pretty big accomplishment, a massive turnaround for you in your life.

Huge. So I'm proud of you for that. But let's get to the part of the letter where something terrible happens and this all goes to hell. But I have a horrible secret that I've been keeping from everybody. Here it comes. Go grab your popcorn, Jordan. Just do not chew too loudly, please, because it will drive me insane. Okay, so he goes on.

Eight years ago, while I was using, I worked with my dad in his business. We made a great team, and things started off really well. Six months in, I began stealing money to support a morphine and methamphetamine habit. At first, it was just small amounts, $20 here and there, but within three months, I regularly began stealing upwards of $200 at a time to fund my habit. It got to the point where I was stealing at least $50 every single day. My dad's business began to suffer, and he had to cut back on my hours and reduce my wage so that the business wouldn't collapse.

I was so sick and so exhausted from the addiction, from a dysfunctional relationship, and from being a new dad that I couldn't stop myself from using. I am so ashamed of what I did, and it plays on my mind regularly, especially when I'm with my dad. I know that he knows I stole some money from the business, but he has no idea how bad it was. I don't even want to think about how much I stole, but it must be more than $10,000. Wow, yeah. Okay, so you were a pretty severe addict. You weren't healthy. You stole from your family. and it weighs on you. As you probably know, this is an extremely

common side effect of addiction and is really tough for most people. There's another wrinkle to this story, though. When I was young, I used to soil myself all the time. I don't know why or how

it just seemed to happen. I was teased, bullied, and humiliated relentlessly by kids and adults alike. Neither of my parents protected me from the bullying and, if anything, actually helped perpetuated.

I have horrible memories of being made to strip in front of everyone. and bawling my eyes out, my dad hosed me down in the garden and of being locked outside at night like a dog as punishment. What? Oh my God. That is definitely a new wrinkle, but that is awful. That's really sad. I don't want to chime in too early, but you were at a minimum seriously mistreated. And at a maximum, I don't really know where the line is. That seems like it would qualify as a form

of abuse. I think if you lock a child up outside at night, like a dog, that has to be abusive. For something he couldn't control as well, right? Yeah, that's heartbreaking. I can imagine my son doing that and then he's crying and I'm hosing him down and I'm like, and you can't come in, sit outside. Oh, it's so cruel. That's a rough message. Yeah, carry on.

I had to react to that. The humiliation I experienced still haunts me. I still have issues with my self-worth and self-esteem 30 years on. And I believe this was a big part of why I started using heroin. Well, yeah. No kidding. That makes sense. Yeah, it completely makes sense.

You sound traumatized, man. and heroin from what I hear, it can be very powerful when you're in pain, psychologically, physically. So someone once described it to me as crawling back into the womb. The causes of addiction are complex. But yeah, this all tracks. Neither of my parents are bad people. They're both from very repressed working class families. They also felt the shame and just had no idea how to deal with it. Still, neither of them has really apologized to me for what happened. My mom has, sort of, but I've always blown it off. It's okay, mom, it's no big deal. But it is a big deal. I've always felt betrayed by them in some way, and I wonder sometimes if me stealing from my parents

was a way for me to get back at them for leaving me out there in the cold alone as a kid. I had a great therapist, but now that I'm clean, my government will no longer help me pay for visits, and I just can't afford $100 plus dollars per week at the moment as I'm pinching pennies for my business. Am I being reasonable in my assessment here? Or am I just shifting the for my own shitty, shameful behavior? And do I tell my dad about the stealing? If so, how? Signed, doing the sums on these stolen funds.

Well, this is quite a tale, man. There's so much going on in this one. I'm really glad that you were working with a good therapist before. Sorry that you can't continue now. I think that's awful. Because what I'm hearing is that there's still quite a bit for you to unpack about your childhood, your addiction, your relationship with your parents. but I understand it's an expense.

I promise we won't just hit you with the old, go to therapy, bro, even though you can't afford it. Sell a kidney. You've shared a lot of very difficult stuff with us. I want to thank you for being so vulnerable. So let's start with this theory about why you stole, that it might have been a way to get back at your parents for leaving you out there in the cold alone as a kid.

And by that phrase, I take it you mean both physically and emotionally. That really is a stark metaphor for how you must have felt growing up. And like I said, my heart just breaks for somebody who has, to go through that as a child. Honestly, I don't know if that's what the stealing was ultimately about, that's something only you can really decide. It's hard to draw a line from one thing to another like that, but you can try by continuing to explore all these layers of your story. What I am picking up on, though, is a decent amount of anger, very justifiable anger, in my opinion, about how your parents

treated you as a child. You had an issue that was probably very fixable with a gentle, loving approach or possibly, you know, Gabe, now that I think about it, older kids don't soil themselves normally. Often this is a reaction. When I was little, we had family friends and there was some weird crap going on in the family and we don't really know what it was, but the kids were all quote unquote really bad. They always got in tons and tons of trouble. And the one that was my age, who was really young at the time, he just kept pooping in his pants at school. And they were like, why is he doing this? Wow. And my mom was like, yeah, there's something going on in that house. You don't have a teenager who steals a car, a younger kid who's shoplifting at age of

12 and then a nine-year-old who's soiling himself and it's just not related to anything. There's some abuse or some weirdish going on in the house. And I don't know what that is. It doesn't necessarily have to be from the parents. Maybe he was being bullied by other people and that was a negative, vicious cycle. Yeah, they could have fixed this with a gentle, loving approach. And they addressed it in this bizarre and hurtful way. And that obviously left some real marks that just didn't need to be there.

And when you couple that behavior with your parents not protecting you appropriately from being bullied and your view actually making. at worse, helping perpetuate the bullying, I can absolutely understand why you feel angry with them and why you feel betrayed. Of course. How could he not? But also, there are a few other angles to that anger in my view. I thought it was interesting when he said that neither of his parents are bad people.

He said they're both compressed and they also felt the shame and they just had no idea how to deal with it. Part of me heard that in his letter and went, wow, like, that's very understanding of you. And kudos to you for even being able to appreciate why your parents did what they did, given how bad it was. So I commend him for that. But another part of me heard that and went, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know if that's compassion or if that's letting mom and dad off the hook for some objectively horrible behavior. Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Is he truly forgiving and empathizing with them or is he subtly diminishing and maybe even in some sense justifying what they did.

And it reminds me, we did an episode a while ago with this former police officer named Neil Woods. I think it was a guy you found actually for the show. That's right. Yeah, the drug guy, right? Yeah, drug guy, anti-former drugs cop in the UK. And what he said was he had befriended this one source

and he really felt bad for the guy because one of the things the guy said was, yeah, my dad used to beat me up all the time, but really only when I deserved it. And he was just like, man, that's terrible. Right. Because that guy wasn't necessarily forgiving and empathizing with his dad, maybe not really, but kind of justifying him being treated like crap. And this guy was, what, a heroin addict or whatever it was that Neil was talking to?

I mean, that was the thing. It was a drug user, a source. Internalizing some of the blame that the parents might have made him feel like he deserved to bear. So the complicated thing is that our friend here might be doing both of those things at the same time. It's possible that we are hearing from a guy who is very compassionate, who is very evolved, and might not be fully in touch with some of this righteous anger toward his parents.

Who, by the way, he seems to really love, right? He said his relationship with his mom and dad is really good. He and his mom are especially closed, which I'm thrilled to hear that, obviously, after kicking this addiction and having that kind of childhood. But it's a little hard for me to understand how their relationship can be that strong. And I'm basing all this off of three-paragraph letter, okay? So we're fine. But how can they be that close when there's this deep unaddressed pain in the background that he must, I don't know, compartmentalize somehow? Exactly. Because then he pointed out that neither of them ever really

apologized to him for what happened. And when his mom did try, sort of, he brushed it off like, it's okay, mom, it's no big deal. And so I do wonder if that's another sort of, of his anger, not just anger at them for doing what they did, but possibly at himself a little bit for now letting them off the hook years later, at least his mom anyway. And then anger once again in the other direction for letting him let them off the hook. You know what I mean? When it would be absolutely appropriate and possibly very healing for both of them to just let his mom say, look, what we did was wrong and I'm sorry. And to not shut it down or let her off the hook in that moment because it's sad or it's uncomfortable.

Even if her apology is a little clumsy, a little awkward, because it's absolutely warranted and it's about damn time. Yeah, it's been a long time coming. So when he jumps in and he goes, it's okay, mom, it's no big deal. He's depriving both of them of an important moment. And by doing that, I suspect part of him might be also protecting her. I guess. Protecting her from what, though?

Okay, that would be a really good question for him to ask himself. I mean, it's hard for me to know exactly, but watching his mom wrestle with some very difficult feelings. Maybe that feels cruel to him or shameful or just generally awkward. It could also be the intimacy of a moment like that. I mean, look, this is very raw stuff that they're talking about. And it might be extremely uncomfortable, especially in a family that, let's remember, according to him, is a bit repressed. Yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, he might also be protecting himself in that moment, too. Like, there he is, listening to his mom acknowledge what she and her husband did to him and it's like, maybe I don't want to relive that right now over

freaking Cheerios in the morning. I just want to eat my special K and get to work. I don't need to confirm that my childhood was really as painful as I suspected, but thanks for trying. Fast forwarding through that conversation keeps all of them safe. But these are words he needs to hear and that I think his mom needs to say. I'd be very interested to know what would happen if he invited her to talk about all this without clenching up around the apology, I think it could be huge for them, but they both need to be willing to bear the difficulty of that conversation, right? She can't come over and be like, oh, it was nothing in the like chicken out. And he can't be like, yeah, you're right, let's order a pizza and watch Netflix, right?

The sadness, the shame, the discomfort has to be in the front row. Could not agree more. The big question, did you steal to get back at them for all of that, or are you shifting the blame for your own behavior, is such a good question. I think Jordan is right when he says that both things can be true. We're both noticing some profound anger that might have informed the stealing. Maybe you felt less remorseful about it at the time. Maybe you did on some level feel like your parents owed you something.

And yes, that might have been the addiction brain doing its addiction math. But that's still a very relevant feeling in my view. That obviously doesn't make the stealing right and it probably isn't the full story. But if that anger played a role in how you felt about your life at the time, I think that's legit. And it can also be true that you might be shifting the blame for your own behavior. Because at the end of the day, this was your addiction. And you were stealing from people you love who have not been perfect by any means, but who gave you a job, who were good partners,

and who have proven to be better parents to you later in life. My feeling is, I think you can appreciate how your childhood played into your addiction and the stealing, which is important, without justifying the stealing or avoiding responsibility entirely. For me, it's the difference between going, my parents didn't do right by me, so I stole money from them. And it's not my fault because, you know, they owed me that. And going, my parents didn't do right by me. So I used to cope with the pain and I stole from them.

And part of the reason I thought it was okay was that I hadn't worked through certain parts of my childhood. Yeah, that's exactly right. The second angle seems absolutely fair to me because that makes room for his stuff and his parent stuff without letting either of them off the hook. So the $65,000 question, or the $10,000 question, I suppose, in this instance, do you tell your dad about the stealing? And it's interesting, Gabe, because I'm thinking about that question from last week. The guy who blew through half the money his dad gave him for the down payment on the house from Australia. Remember that guy? Yeah, my mind went there too during the letter.

It's such an interesting parallel. Yeah. So our take there was ethically, eh, you could argue both sides. Maybe you owe it to your dad to tell them. Maybe you don't. The money was technically yours. This case, it was not. But in terms of the relationship, having the most honest and authentic relationship,

with your dad, we felt there was a really good reason for that guy to own up to what he did and put it behind him. And I find myself wanting to say something similar here. And actually, I think it applies even more in this case because what our friend here did was he was in an active addiction. It was more explicitly wrong, right? I mean, he stole from his dad. He lied to his dad about that. He nearly tanked the family business. Whatever his reasons were at the time, he at least owes him an apology for that because that probably sucked for him too. And he's carrying around this huge burden because of it. My strong feeling is that a meaningful apology would be quite powerful for all of them.

We've talked a lot about the wounds as parents caused and rightly so, but the stealing is a wound that he then caused, a wound that they all bear. And he kind of has the power to heal it, right? So when you're ready, I would make some time with your parents. And I'm just going to improv what I would say, obviously make this your own. But basically, mom, dad, I want to share something with you. It's extremely painful to acknowledge. I carry a lot of guilt and shame about this,

but it's eating away at me, so I want to tell you that when I worked in the business with you, I stole from you more than I want to admit to. I think it's probably about $10,000. And I stole because, as you know, I was extremely sick and exhausted. I was addicted to drugs. I wasn't thinking clearly it was the only way I knew to pay for my...

I'm getting emotional here. This isn't even my conversation. It's the only way I knew how to pay for my addiction. Yeah. And I feel really awful about this because I nearly destroyed the business and I compromised our relationship and I'm deeply ashamed about that.

And I think you can see that I'm a very different person now, which, by the way, that's going to help a lot with this, I think. But this is on my mind constantly, especially when I hang out with you, Dad. So I'm here to say, I am so sorry for what I did and I hope when you're ready, you can forgive me. That's basically the message, short, earnest, honest, you can't go wrong that way.

And, God, man, Gabe, I got to say, people who run businesses check the register, even in an all-cash business, he secretly suspects you were stealing almost for sure. They probably don't know how to bring this up without making things worse. Maybe they feel bad about all the other stuff and they're like, well, I'm going to let that go because he was a drug addict and it's my fault. Oh, wow. I had not considered that.

They're doing the same math that he was doing. Like, yeah, he thought maybe my parents owe me something and they're thinking maybe we owe it to him to let him. Maybe we owe him something. Yeah. Come on, man. I know there's cash businesses, but when you're losing, He said, what, $100 at a time?

If you're an addict on drugs like this, I'm assuming he means per day or several times a week. You know when your business is losing $5,000 to $6,000 per month. You're like, oh, we didn't leave the sink on. It's not the water bill. It's not people walking out with a candy bar at a convenience store. It is a ton of money. Where is it? And you eventually come to realize that your son, the drug addict, might be the guy doing it.

and you just don't want to say anything. Just one more reason that this apology might be very welcome and much easier than he thinks and it can just heal the wound and they can move on. But this script that you just laid out, Jordan, I think it's beautiful and it's efficient and I completely agree. And look, in this conversation,

I probably wouldn't get into your childhood and how that might have factored into the stealing. Your only job here is to own this and say, I'm sorry. And later, when the time is right, if the time is right, and if you feel it's necessary, you guys can sort through all of that other stuff that brought you to that point of stealing.

But that's a separate conversation. And I'm guessing one that will go better if you really nail this apology now. If I'm placing bets, I bet dad acknowledges the apology and then brings that up like minutes later. Possibly. Because if it's on his mind,

the whole thing we said before, like, oh, I owe him something, your dad might be holding onto an apology about a lot of stuff for a long time. I think this is going to open the floodgates in a good way. But yeah, for sure, you don't want to taint your apology

with anything that sounds like an excuse. even if the excuse might be kind of sort of legitimate, that's a lesson that I've had to learn over the years. Just take accountability, say I'm sorry, without too many excuses when you have to. So I hope that gives you a way forward here. But listen, you're doing so well now. You've come such a long way.

You beat a brutal addiction. This is no joke. That kills a lot of people. You see the world through a really great lens now. You sound like a great son, honestly, warts and all. And I have a feeling your parents are going to be pretty understanding about this, especially because the wounds are not fresh with the money thing, I think. It might come as a shock to them.

I don't think it will, but I'm guessing they know how brutal this addiction was. And I am so sorry that they didn't know how to take care of you when you were younger. It's a tragedy, really. Parenting is hard. It might take you some more time to work through that. But in the meantime, this apology can do wonders for your psyche, for your relationship with them. It'll bring you guys closer, that's for sure. And in a way, it might also make the childhood stuff easier to discuss when that time does come.

So we're sending you a big hug, and we're wishing all of you all the best. And Gabriel, you know what's a great use of stolen funds? And even better use of legitimate ones, by the way. The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. All the advertisers, deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals.

You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. That's going to be updating like an hour after the show launches. We had to manually ingest everything took weeks. now it should happen almost instantly. So please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe,

10 weeks ago, I ended a three-year relationship after finding out that my girlfriend cheated on me. We aren't married and don't have kids, but we did live together. I had a gut feeling that something was wrong, so I looked at her phone. I learned that she had been messaging her boss over the course of eight weeks

and booked a hotel on a night she was supposed to be working. There were messages and a couple of things, and a couple of photos. When I confronted her, she said that was all it was and apologized profusely. A week later, though, I still had that weird feeling and a big argument followed. To this day, she says she booked the hotel but didn't go.

I then found this guy's partner of five years on social media and told her what I knew. She told me that he told her that he and my ex did go to the hotel and slept together. did she not see that coming? Had to know that was going to happen. I think at some point people just pray that they're not going to dig a deeper hole and then they do. But man, good recon there. That's some meddlesome isish. But man, that is quite a revelation. I hate that it came to

that, but obviously I guess I'm glad you found out. Over the next week, my ex told me there were also a couple of coffees before work, but it, quote, wasn't as bad as you think it is, unquote. And that over the two months, it was very on and off. At no stage, did she ever just lay all out for me in one go, something I asked for several times. Now I'm struggling with who to believe. I believe that everyone involved has gone to ground and will stick to their own truth. Still, the information I confirmed was enough for me to end the relationship and tell my girlfriend to leave the house. But I still love her. And for some reason, I don't hate her, even though I think I should. I've never seen her so upset, so apologetic, and in so much pain. She doesn't wear her heart on her

sleeve, but my God, she has over the last few weeks. She's stubborn as a rock, so to see her clearly suffering has been eye-opening and made me question the whole situation. I truly thought I would marry this woman and settle down. Now I'm left feeling dejected and a bit lost. I want nothing more than to be able to forgive her and try again, but deep down, I know this will rear its ugly head in the future. How can I forgive her? How could I ever trust her again? Is it even worth trying? Signed, aching for the me in contemplating clemency amidst this infidelity. Oh, man, I am so sorry to hear about this. Finding out that a partner has cheated on you, especially when you really love and thought

you'd marry, is extremely painful. And what you're going through right now, you're right in the thick of the aftermath. That's a super intense and confusing place to be. And emotions are running high. You're torn between protecting yourself and wanting to stay connected to your girlfriend. It's dramatic. It's messy. It's crazy making.

it really sucks that things played out this way. And my heart goes out to you, man. This conflict you're stuck in. I'm angry at her, but I love her. I don't hate her, but I think I should. I want to get back together, but I can't trust her. All of that is super normal. Your head and your heart are all over the place.

Things might feel that way for a little while as the dust settles. But you have touched on something very meaningful here, which is how you're responding to your girlfriend's pain. She's upset. She's apologetic. She's suffering. is appropriate because, you know, she freaking cheated on you, bro. She banged her boss and lied about it and continues to lie about it.

You don't talk to somebody's partner and then they say they, oh yeah, my partner told me they slept together. People sugarcoat the story, right? So he didn't say that it was worse than it was. You have to take the partner at the word and be like, oh, okay, he told her the maybe not even the worst version and it was worse than the version she told you. And by the way, coffees before work, I don't mean to be crass, but that definitely doesn't mean coffee before work.

That means something else. I don't know if it's a parking lot hand job or what, but it's definitely not coffee. They could have been caffeinating up. That's true, but is that it? Is that all that's up? Different ways to get energy in the morning, for sure.

But it's a bit suss even just to go to Starbucks four times a week before work with your boss. It's irresponsible financially, that's for sure. But look, you're watching her go through it. You're seeing a side of her she doesn't show very often, and that's been eye-opening. That's making you, as you said, question the whole situation. And that is what I am most interested in here.

Why her pain, her frankly warranted and self-created pain, is having the effect of making you question whether you were right to say, hey, sorry, but this is wrong. You've hurt me in a profound way, and I don't know if we can be together. And to be clear, I'm not saying she's consciously doing this. It's not like a tactic or manipulative. I assume her suffering is genuine. I really don't know.

But what I'm hearing is that her suffering is going through a few filters in you or flipping some switches, and those filters are returning the result that you're saying, maybe I'm overreacting here. Maybe I'm being heartless. Maybe I just need to forgive her and give this another shot

because watching somebody I love hurt this much is brutal. And that's a response. I would just pause and sit with that. Because again, your girlfriend's reaction, it is appropriate. It's healthy. It makes sense.

She hurt you. She destroyed your relationship and she knows that. She's ashamed. She's feeling guilty. She's scared to lose you. that's definitely really hard to watch, okay? In some twisted way, just hear me out here.

You might even feel like you were the one that is making her suffer, which, for the record, you're not. I'll say it again. She cheated on you, not the other way around. But none of this means that you are wrong in pulling back and reassessing this relationship. I am so glad that you zeroed in on this, Jordan,

because that's really the crux of his conflict, how her feelings seem to have a way of infecting his outlook on the situation. It's a very interesting co-production between the two of them. As confusing as the situation is, I do think your next move is actually pretty straightforward. I would take some time for yourself. Take some time apart, dude.

With every week that passes, things are going to become clearer. And once the intensity of these feelings ratchets down a little bit, you can start to pick them apart better. You can maybe have some conversations with your ex about why this happened and where this leaves you guys. And you're going to be in a much better place to balance your feelings with her feelings. Also, this feeling of being dejected and feeling lost, that is also very hard. And I think you need to go through a phase of mourning, really, the relationship that you had

or the relationship you thought you had and coming to terms with a great deal of uncertainty. Which actually might be one of the hardest parts of this for him, just accepting that there are a lot of unknowns ahead. And that's always scary. Yeah, that's often the most terrifying part of a situation like this. So once you go through that phase, then you can decide how to proceed. I think you know that an affair is a huge blow to any relationship. It always signals some more fundamental issues, maybe in the relationship, maybe in the party who cheated, possibly in the innocent party and how they respond and how they operate in the relationship or all of the above. But if there's a way forward for you guys, if that's ultimately what you want, then it'll require

a lot of conversation, a lot of work, right? The kind of work, you're probably best off doing in couples therapy because this stuff is so complex, and it might take some time, and it'll definitely take a willingness on both of your parts. But I got to say, especially hers, because she generally doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve, which I think is an interesting detail, a willingness to acknowledge some very difficult material and to work through that with you. But you're going to have to see if you have it in you to truly forgive her. You know, for some people, an affair like this, unforgivable, right? It's just too damaging. For other people, depending on the circumstances, it can be a crisis that reveals some really important information,

and it's an opportunity to dig into that information, maybe hit the reset button and try things in a new way. But that's something you'll have to learn by exploring this, both on your own and by talking with her. I agree, but honestly, Gabe, if he doesn't even want to try because something is irreversibly broken here, I think that's fair too. For sure. It's all fair. If it were me, I might be like, sorry, you ruined it. Peace, I'm done.

I'm over it. I'm young. We don't have kids. Come on, man. It's really hard to forgive somebody for doing something like this. Sure. It's hard to trust somebody again. It just might not be worth trying.

And listen, just to give you a little more perspective, I hope it's not too soon to say this to you. Maybe what I'm about to say will only make sense in another month or something. But at some point, in the near future, if you're not already there a little bit, you're going to look back at this and you're going to go, man, that was horrible. But that kind of had to happen. I don't know why that's going to be the case for you. it's just always the case.

Maybe there was an issue you guys were avoiding. Maybe your girlfriend had some qualities or some conflicts to address in herself. Maybe she wants a different kind of relationship. I don't know. Maybe there's a communication problem that surfaced after all of this. And that actually runs a lot deeper. It's hard for us to know, but any number of things could be happening. I say this, not to minimize what you're going through.

It's objectively painful, but just to remind you that these things don't happen by accident. Something is always driving them. and that's something needs to come to the surface, one way or the other, if you want to have an honest relationship, if you want to have a well-functioning relationship. The price you pay for that coming to the surface is this pain that you're in. But the pain, I think, usually is a symptom of a very important process. Yeah, well said, Gabe, look, I've never been cheated on by somebody I was in love with and wanted to marry, but I've definitely had my heartbroken personally or professionally, if I can relate that way. And every time that it's happened, I've always arrived at that

place that you're describing. It's not immediate, but my only caveat is that getting to that place, it really does depend on how you navigate these transitions. If he uses this crisis to learn more about himself and his girlfriend and his needs and how he operates in relationships and all that, then this breakup is going to be very fruitful, whether they get back together or not. If he just kind of buries his head in the sand, suppresses the pain, or quickly forgives her without doing any of the work, then he's going to miss that opportunity. Right. But given his email, I feel like he's going to do this the right way. I know it's going to serve him really well.

So that's our hope for you, man. Again, so sorry this happened. I know this is brutal and sucks. It completely sucks. But you're going to be okay. And there are some really important lessons and insights ahead. So take care of yourself. And we're rooting for you.

And I guess, yeah, time to reinstall Tinder or whatever. And maybe, who knows, maybe you'll match with your girlfriend's boss's ex. That would be incredible. Yeah. Carmic justice. Carmic justice. And just write us an email. We'll take that on the show.

I would love to hear about that. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in the mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, or you're trying to figure out what to do about your sociopathic pedophile grandfather. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, what's next? Hey, guys, I just learned that a law firm in Ohio had their internal network hacked, and my name and Social Security were among those acquired by a quote-unquote unauthorized actor. The firm offered a 12-month membership to Experian Identity Works as compensation, which was part of an extremely generic information letter written in legalese. I don't know anything about this law firm. I've never worked with them before. I did attend college nearby, but that's the only remote connection I have to the area. I called them to ask how they obtained

my social security number in the first place. The person answering the phone did not engage, and just kept repeating the statement, I've been advised not to answer any questions on the matter. Please contact Experian for more information. So I called Experian. They read me the letter I received in the mail verbatim for an escalation, and a few days later they left me a voicemail

informing me that I was either a former client of the firm or that they had obtained my information by acquiring a smaller firm, neither of which is true. I called back and asked for it to be re-escalated, but I never received a follow-up. The firm won't answer my questions, but they also haven't provided experience with the necessary information.

All I know is that these people are supremely talented at CYA. Do I have any legal recourse here? Any steps I can take to learn how they got my information? How can you engage a lawyer on an issue when they're determined to protect themselves? Signed an unwitting victim trying to figure out how they tricked them. Yeah, this is super annoying and unfortunately pretty common these days. Hackers are getting more and more brazen and creative. and a lot of cybersecurity just doesn't exist, right?

Sadly, that means a lot of personally identifying information, PII, is ending up on the dark web. We really, as consumers, can't do a whole lot about that, but we did want to get a handle on your legal options here. So we reached out to the one and only Corbyn Payne, attorney in front of the show, and Corbyn confirmed what you said, that this firm's refusal to communicate fairly with you

is clearly some good old-fashioned ass covering. He obviously doesn't know how the firm got your information. but he did wonder if they could have gotten it from a client. Corbyn has reviewed contracts on behalf of clients with the other party's social security number, date of birth, stuff like that. It's all right there on the page. So it's possible that your information fell into the firm's hands through a similar route, you know, an employer or something like that.

That said, attorneys are bound by rules of professional conduct. So I would Google Ohio's rules of professional conduct and see what they say. Corbin is not licensed in Ohio so he can't opine on any specific. specifics, but generally speaking, Corbyn said that every state has a rule about client confidentiality. You might not have even been a client at the firm, but it's very possible that your information came to the firm through a client, and that information is out there. Corbin said he would want to know whether this was really the fault of the firm or whether it was somehow out of their hands. And I can't imagine how that would be if they had your information, how it would be out of

their hands, but who knows. Corbin also pointed out that a best practice for law firms is to have a suite of good security tools and protocols in place. If they had the best defense systems money can buy and they still got hacked, they probably didn't breach their professional responsibilities, but I know hackers look for easy targets. If they have some cracker jack security package, which is almost certainly the case, and somebody got in because they were just sleeping on this, then as a general rule of thumb, they probably did breach their professional responsibilities. Also, there are rules in place regarding how lawyers communicate with a pro-say party, other words, somebody representing themselves without a lawyer. What they convey to you, their duties

of candor, which basically means their obligation to tell you when something has gone wrong, stuff like that. I would also look up those rules to see if the firm has breached those as well. So given all of that, Corbyn's take is he doubts that it would be worthwhile to retain an attorney and personally sue these clowns, but he did say that a class action lawyer might be a good option to explore. Law firms are supposed to have malpractice insurance, so a cut of a reasonable settlement for this could be a just outcome for you and also for everybody else who was impacted. I am very curious to know how many other people were impacted. It could be dozens. It's everybody who the firm had on file, which is thousands of people. It could be a lot of people.

And if it's a big firm, it's tens of thousands of people. The main challenge, though, will be getting a class action attorney interested. Corbyn said that going up against a firm of other lawyers can be a little bit daunting for some attorneys. But this isn't his area of the law, so you know, don't take that as gospel, just book a few calls and see how different lawyers respond to the story. If dozens or hundreds of people were affected by this breach and this law firm truly screwed this up, this could be a pretty good case. Yeah, you're going to look for cybersecurity or privacy lawyers who've done class action lawsuits. And yes, it's daunting to go up against a firm of lawyers. These are also firms of lawyers that go up against other firms of lawyers,

not necessarily as a client. But if you sue Proctor and Gamble for this, they're hiring a big firm of employers too. Maybe it's a little personal because this is the firm who's a client and they're going represent themselves. Someone's up to this challenge. Trust me, there's a lot of money when it comes with this kind of thing. Corbin did mention one other avenue to consider and a much easier one potentially, which is reporting this firm to Ohio's Board of Professional Conduct. In Corbin's view, this firm should at least be able to tell you whether you were a client of theirs or some firm they acquired or something along those lines. The fact they haven't said anything about that struck him as odd and strikes me as odd as well. And if they're not,

playing ball in their communications, that could be an issue. If nothing else, Corbyn said these complaints are supposed to trigger the board to send the firm notice that a complaint has been filed, and that might be enough to kick them into action. We're going to link to Ohio's Board of Professional Conduct in the show notes for you. So there you have it. It sucks. It's maddening. You do have some options. And I know that this question was a little drier than our usual feedback Friday's smorgas board of craziness, but you would not believe how many emails we get about this kind of thing. So many people are being hacked.

Their data's gone online, compromised somehow. It's just a crappy part of modern life. So we thought we'd tackle this one with C-Pain's help and hopefully help some other people listening right now who are dealing with breaches like this. So good luck. Gabriel, you know it's a great use of that class action settlement money. Is it the amazing?

It is the amazing products and services that support this show. Yep. We'll be right back back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and consider it and probably good-looking listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

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If that's what it's going to take, I'm here for it. Thank you so much for supporting those who support us. I really do appreciate that. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I grew up in a martial arts family business. After college, marriage, and a few kids,

I came back for eight years to run my parents' dojo for them with plans of one day taking over. Near the end of that time, my stepdad battled skin cancer. He went to radiation treatments, alone, acting like it was no big deal. He was too proud to let my mom really be there for him, and I believe this is when their marriage problems began. Soon after he was cleared, COVID hit.

We started losing students and money fast. I decided that it was best to resign and move my wife and kids out of the state to start fresh. A week later, my parents asked if I would consider returning to the dojo. With nothing to lose, I said that I would stay if they gave me 100% of the business and finally retire. I offered to save the dojo, cover a few of their bills, and occasionally hire them for business coaching or teaching if they wanted to be involved. So my stepdad signed over his half of the business and proceeded to sell the house, split assets, and moved to a tropical island without my mom.

Whoa. Our family was devastated and the students were shocked, but we covered for him saying that it was part of his cancer recovery journey. I decided to keep my mom on as a partner since she was always the brain behind the scenes anyway, and I stopped calling my stepdad. Slowly, we rebuilt the business and proved that we didn't need him to succeed. Two years later, he moved back to town. When people asked him what happened,

he said that my mom and I stole the business from him in a weak state. That kicked off a wave of staff resignations and membership cancellations. He began recruiting high-ranking students and even my instructors to train with him at a competitor's dojo. My stepdad now says that I owe him six figures. Without that, he says I won't get my dad back and my kids won't get their grandpa back. He also says that he'll continue to do everything in his power to harm my business. I offered to pay him to teach or even get a handsome commission on students he recruits,

but he doesn't want to work for me in any capacity. Up until now, I've kept my side of the agreement and continued to pay his bills every month. Wow. I haven't been a perfect son, I'm sure, but I have kept the door open to a better relationship. Do I cut my stepdad off completely? Do I pay him this money?

Do I stage an intervention and get a mental help? Signed a sensei trying not to give way to this foul play in a family melee. Wow, what a mess. This is all really unfortunate, especially because so much of it, I mean, pretty much all of it, sounds completely unnecessary. I know we're only going on your story here, but you sound like a pretty chill, thoughtful, responsible dude.

I mean, humble too. Look, what you did for your family business, how generous you've been with everyone here, too generous, in my opinion. I'm finding it hard to imagine that you did something egregious to provoke your stepdad in this way. What could it be? I don't understand. His stepdad agreed to sign over his half of the business to him. He didn't steal it out from under him.

this was all on the up and the sound of it. Plus, to your point, he's gone above and beyond in helping this guy. He did not owe that to him at all. Which is why I'm honestly mystified by this dude's antics. A big part of me wonders if his stepdad just knows he can get even more money out of him if he continues to make his life difficult. So he's using every tactic at his disposal, which from what we're hearing is basically threats,

attacks against the business, and emotional manipulation. Which is very telling, right? He's not going, hey, the terms of this deal were unfair, or you didn't honor our agreement, you need to make things right. He's going, I don't like that you're running the business better without me, so you have to write me a check for $200,000 or you won't get your dad back. Right, I'm not going to be your dad. Your kids won't have their grandpa around. That's a different thing. Yeah, they also, I'm making it my life's mission to destroy your business. First of all, pure sour grapes. And I'm very familiar with this type of situation, given what happened to me when I

split off from my last podcast and company. They didn't give a crap until we were successful. And then it was lawsuit galore. And it happens with that. petty assholes, man, which your stepdad definitely is. And meanwhile, our boy here is still offering him a job. He's still offering him a great salary if he brings students in. And the stepdad is going, nah, I just want the lump sum and I want you to fail. Yeah, this isn't business. It's emotional warfare.

It's extortion. It's dumb. It's petty. And it's boring. Also, I don't mean to diminish the stakes of this because I know that this business is very meaningful to him and his family, and I respect that. But let's just remember, we are talking about a family-owned karate dojo. This isn't succession.

There aren't billions of dollars at stake here. The stepdad is going to war over a place where they're teaching classes and they're handing out purple belts. I mean, again, I'm not like diminishing what they've built. For anybody who doesn't know, I did karate for 10 plus years and it was a huge part of my life.

So I love this world and I respect it. But come on, man. Like, relax a little bit. I don't know, man. You don't watch Cobra Kai. You don't know how serious they take the All Valley Tournament either, clearly. I haven't seen that show,

but everybody says it's so good. Is that true? It's really good nostalgia, but yeah, there's like full-grown adults who are like doing crazy things. And it's like, if I win, you never teach karate again. It's like, okay, relax, dude. This is like North Hollywood, California in the valley. Just relax, move to Sherman Oaks. You'll be fine.

I did forget about that. You're a black belt, yeah? I am, yeah. Yeah, it's so wild. I feel like I only found that out a few years ago, and I remember being shocked then, too. It was such a big part of my life. I was, like, competing every weekend. I was nationally ranked at a few points.

Like, it was the whole thing. Ranked in what? Sparring. Oh, yeah, okay. I was actually pretty good. I was at one point, I want to say it was 2003. I think I was second in the country. No big deal.

Wow, this is like blowing my mind. How you went from throwing badass roundhouse kicks to the dome to sipping Chagachinos at Cafe Gratitude. That is an absolute mystery to me how that happened. How did you know my favorite beverage of Cafe Gratitude? That's so weird. So you don't do it anymore, obviously. What, chagachachinos? Or do you cry?

No, that's in full swing. I mean martial arts. No, I stopped. I stopped training when I went to college. I just got interested in other stuff. Got it. Anyway, I just say that because I didn't mean to shit on this guy's dojo. It's an incredible...

These businesses can be great, and I really loved martial arts. I just mean that the stepdad is going to war over something that feels very not worth it, in my opinion. Look, Cobra Kai never dies. That's the point of this tangent. Back to the other black belt in this story. Not to be callous here, but it's not like this guy went through six months of chemo and was on the brink of death. and our friend here shoved a contract in front of him in the hospital and made him sign over the business when the morphine kicked in. Good point.

His stepdad at skin cancer, I'm sure that's horrible for many people, but he himself said it wasn't a big deal. Then he ditches his wife, I don't know, has an immediate midlife crisis, leaves town and goes to a place with more sunlight. Can't really put that together myself, but that's neither here nor there. I don't see how our friend here conned him when he was vulnerable or whatever. This is just a total fiction that is designed to destroy your business because of his. his ego. So do you cut your stepdad off completely? I mean, yeah, I would also sue his ass, to be honest, but that's just me. There's tortious interference. He's messing with your business. He's making up lies, which are potentially defamatory. I definitely wouldn't keep paying his bills

if this is the approach he wants to take. You've been more than fair with him to the point where I feel like this arrangement is unfair to you, and he's not engaging in good faith. So I think your stepdad has already effectively made this decision for you. You can keep the door open to a better relationship if he approaches you at a very different spirit, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that. This guy is a piece of work, and should you pay him the money?

Hell no. You guys negotiated fairly. He agreed to sign over his half of the business for what it was worth at that time. Now he regrets it. That's his problem. What he's doing is essentially extortion. Do not capitulate to him.

If you do, he's going to ask for more. He's not going to undo all the damage. And here's the thing about egotistical liars. He's not going to go to all those students and all those other people and be like, yeah, I made the whole thing up, my bad. He's just going to double down or ignore the problem. It's not going to repair the damage to your business once he gets a check. Anyone in this position has seen this movie before. Although the fact that you're even entertaining paying him this money is interesting to me.

Maybe you're just a very generous person, but maybe being generous is also a way to keep the peace and avoid conflict. And that's something to consider. Like I alluded to earlier, I do wonder if this stepdad knows that his steps on is maybe an easy target. He's a guy that maybe he's always been able to sort of bully everybody to get what he wants. Sense a crease over here, I'm just going to get whatever he wants. Strike first, whatever it is. Maybe he just knows he can get something out of you, which again, look at the sympathies he's playing on. I'm guessing he knows exactly which pressure points to hit.

And that might be why it's so hard for our friend here to stand up for himself. I agree completely. So do you stage an intervention and get a mental help? No. First of all, not going to work. I don't think the guy is going to respond to an intervention from the guy who quote unquote stole his business from him and who is now his competitor. More importantly, not your job, dude. All you need to do is get clear with yourself about what you can tolerate from this guy, what kind of relationship you want to have with him, which is not much of a relationship at all from the sound of it. I think it's pretty clear that this relationship is severely damaged, which is very sad. to me because I know you guys were family, but a lot of this was his choice, and that's just his stuff to work up, not yours. Yeah, this is a no-brainer for me. From here on out, focus on

yourself and the dojo, keep building a great business. He can whine and threaten and talk crap about you till the cows come home, and he'll probably continue to do that as long as you ignore his baseless demands and continue to crush it. But that's your reward here. You're doing a great job of running the business with your mom. That is driving him crazy. That's why he's attacking the business. He's not calling you with another sob story. He's not harassing your mom or whatever. He wants you to fail. This guy won't be happy until you fail and or he gets even more money from you, ideally causing you to fail. That kind of tells you all you need to know. And I'm sorry things played out this way, but it sounds like you are better off. This a whole split the assets and

he thought he was doing it on his terms and he was going to ride off into the sunset and be the happy one and now he's the miserable SOB. That's what happened. Be grateful that this crap didn't happen before your parents got divorced or he would be making this so much worse for you and your mom. You have options now. And I also hope your mom doesn't take this scumbag back. I doubt she will, but who knows? He knows what buttons to press. Tell him to freaking screw off to Tahiti or wherever he thought the grass was greener. He made his bed. Time to sleep in it. All right. Next up. Hey guys. I joined my current company many years ago largely because of its values. And I've been eagerly awaiting the day I can step up to the plate and make a difference for the people who need it most

by leveraging my abilities and my passion for people. But I've been in my newly promoted role for almost a year now, and very little has changed. Also, the founder recently passed away, and we've been restructuring our labor model. I'm seeing this organization slowly turning into another device that squeezes its stakeholders and employees to the point that they have little to nothing left.

I feel defeated. It seems no matter where I go or what I do, the bottom line always trumps morality. If profit margins were to decrease ever, slightly, in order to provide a few more perks or stability to our people, heads would roll. Do you believe that there's a way for an organization to strike a balance between give and take? Or should I simply give up and become another cog in the machine? Signed, confronting the schism in late capitalism.

Ah, yes. The wheels of capitalism grinding all of us down. I think most people listening right now can relate to how you're feeling, right? Hashtag America, et cetera. It can be a bit depressing and demoralizing sometimes, so I get why this is troubling you. I mean, it's a great as engine of upward mobility in history is capitalism. But yeah, I mean, to each one of us on any given day, it can be kind of a pain. So, first of all, let's acknowledge something important. All companies, even the nice ones, even the cool ones, they all exist to turn a profit.

That is why they are companies and not hobbies or co-ops. In the system that we operate in, the bottom line always ultimately wins out. profits always trump morality and although i look we can debate what that morality really is reasonable people can disagree about what a company owes its people that's another conversation now there are obviously still better and worse companies out there so obviously a company's values are quite important but depending on how cynical you are you could argue that the nice companies out there are only nice because it makes it more successful google is not feeding all of its tens of thousands of employees for free just because they want everybody to have a full belly. They do that because it keeps you at work and it keeps you

productive and it keeps you happy and it makes it harder to quit when they're getting all these perks you can go to the gym and there's a trainer there and whatnot. It's a lifestyle thing. But look, it sounds especially challenging. You say that it's squeezing its stakeholders and employees. People are burned out. The higher ups aren't open to giving people more perks or stability. Maybe your company really is stingier and more ruthless than the other ones because of management issues, but then you need to decide if this place is for you. It sounds to me like you have a strong moral compass. You're passionate about people. The whole reason you wanted to get promoted in the first place was so you could make a difference for other employees. You sound like a really thoughtful

leader, and that is great. But that lens, that can make it very hard to work in an environment like this. So it might be time to consider if there's a company whose ethos meshes better with you. And maybe that's a place that would also reward a leader-level. like you. Yeah, I do believe there's a way for an organization to strike a balance between give and take. Those companies definitely exist. And the ones that truly live their values, they love to let people know it and they love to recruit people who share those values. But I do think just as a practical matter that you need to balance your idealism with a healthy acceptance of life under capitalism. I know I'm talking weird now because who used the word capitalism like three times and three

pair. But even these magical we live our values type of companies, they still want to survive. They still have to make money. They have to answer to shareholders, stakeholders. I promise you, even the most hippy-dippy, Ben and Jerry progressive generous companies out there, as soon as things get tough, they got to cut costs. They got to let people go because they got to do whatever they have to do to survive. Them's the rules. And they are the best rules that we have right now. So in a way, yes, you could give up and become another cog in the machine because we all. all are, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with an actual toxic company or that you have to be miserable or that you can't find a way to make a difference for people and create meaning

within a flawed system if you view it that way. I say, be passionate, push for change, but man, be realistic too and maybe start looking for an employer that does its best for its people while also doing right by itself. Or if you think there's a conversation to be had in your company, maybe you can help your bosses see that treating people better would actually make the company more successful. There's retention and performance bumps to that stuff. That's a great act of leadership. At the very least, it'll be an interesting experiment,

and if your bosses don't even want to hear it, then you can feel even better about kicking rocks and moving on. Either way, you win. And on that note, it's time to accept my own role as a powerless cog and the great soul-crushing machine of American capitalism and say that I hope you all enjoyed the show, and I want to thank everybody who wrote in and everybody who listened.

Go back and check out the episodes with Andy Clark on our brain and our brain as a prediction machine and Mark Andreessen on how AI will definitely for sure not kill everyone on planet Earth. If you haven't checked out those episodes yet, I highly recommend that you do. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network,

the circle of people that I know like and trust, you can get jobs better through your network, you can develop your own business through your network. You can even just have a happiness dividend through your network if you're retired or you're a teacher and you feel like you don't need this. Just go give it a shot. the course is free. Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Dig that well before you're thirsty and enjoy

reconnecting with people and systemizing it and not having to think about it all the time. Again, Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. And if you haven't signed up yet, our relaunch newsletter is we bit wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from me to you delivered to your inbox. If you want to keep up with the wisdom of our 800 plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. It is again new and I love your feedback. Jordan Harbinger.com slash news. notes and transcripts on the website at Jordan Harbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Or ask the AI chatbot at Jordan Harbinger. I'm at Jordan Harbinger. I say my name way too much during these shows. At Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. Are we going to call it X ever? I feel like we should just never, ever switch. I have no plans to do that. Yeah, I refuse. This show is created in a with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace, Sanderson, Robert Fogart, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne, who is a lawyer, by the way, a real one. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use

the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with a guest who committed a white-collar crime, went to federal prison, and now advises lots of people that you've heard on the news. I'm going to speak openly about breaking the law. I'm going to speak openly about living in denial.

I'm going to speak openly about what I've learned from this experience. I'm going to speak openly how I was a privileged, rich kid, who had all the breaks in life, and I deserve to be scrutinized, I deserve to be punished, and I'm going to talk about how I'm going to climb back up. I knew that it was wrong. I knew that while I was sitting in a meeting and someone was being told that a certain return existed,

I knew that it was a lie. And people were hurt as a result of that. Even though in my case, all of the money was repaid, all the victims got their money back, some of the humanity was stripped away. It comes back to intent. The government doesn't care. It doesn't matter if you were swept into this.

They think you broke the law. They have a narrative. And they are out to punish. And they love cooperators. I broke the law. I cheated. I created victims. It is a lifelong stigma.

You know, it takes some time. It takes some peppering and understanding of reading and learning and thinking. You've got to find that perspective. You've got to become grateful for what's left versus all that's lost. And that was really a big transformation for me focusing on what was left, my family and my mind, and a willingness to work hard and be competitive versus obsessing over everything that had crumbled down. The hardest part is in prison. It's frankly the easiest part.

There is a value in being in prison and losing everything. There is a freedom that comes with it. I didn't have a career to return to. I didn't have money to return to. I didn't have a relationship to return to it. Everyone has to find value in the climb. I found great value in climbing back to a sense of respectability. To hear why Justin Perperney says his 18 months behind bars

was one of the best experiences of his life, check out episode 226 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like something you should know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here, just in a fast-focused format. Mike brings on top experts and asks the exact questions that you'd want to ask,

and the topics are all over the place in the best way. Recently, they've covered things like why we care so much what other people think, the benefits of laughter, why sports fans get so invested, and what makes people like you or not, the through line is always the same. Smart ideas you can actually use in real life. Something you should know has been featured in Apple's shows we love, and it's got thousands of five-star reviews

because it's consistently interesting. So if you want another show that scratches that, I want to understand how people in the world really work, itch, search for something you should know wherever you get your podcasts. Look for the bright yellow light bulb and start listening. You can thank me later.