The Jordan Harbinger Show - 916: Jim Latrache | How a Drug Dealer Became an Agent in North Korea

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

How does a Danish ex-con wind up as a secret agent dealing arms in North Korea? Jim Latrache (aka Mr. James from The Mole) reveals all here! What We Discuss with Jim Latrache: What compels a poor Danish kid like Jim Latrache to join the French Foreign Legion, and was it everything he expected it to be? How did Jim get wrapped up in the cocaine trafficking business, what rationalizations allowed him to carry on guilt-free, and what lessons did he learn along the way? What put Jim's drug dealing empire in the crosshairs of the police, and how did he spend his 5.5-year prison sentence once the law caught up with him? Why was Jim seen as an ideal candidate for gathering intelligence in North Korea despite being an obvious outsider, what dangers did he face once there, and how did his years of risk pay off? As remarkable as Jim's story is, it shows how even the most unlikely people can make a difference in the world. And much more... Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/916 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your math skills have global potential. As an actuary, you'll solve some of the world's most pressing problems while helping people to live better lives. Become an actuary through the society of actuaries and work anywhere in the world. Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show. People don't really understand the grab of it. They say we want justice, but what is justice?

I mean, justice for whom? I say, it's feeling like pissing your pants. It's warm in the beginning. When you have the persons, he gets sent away, then that's fixed. And when he comes out, yeah, then it starts to be cold. We have to rethink all of the system. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people

and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional arms dealer or former arms dealer or even a fake arms dealer, national security advisor, astronaut, or journalist-turned-poker champion. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs.

These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, cyber warfare, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start, or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, how do I introduce my friend Jim here? This dude has had a life. He grew up poor in Denmark, joined the French Foreign Legion, which is essentially a mercenary group that operates mostly in Africa, became a cocaine dealer, went to prison a couple of times, as one typically does when they become a drug dealer, started a nonprofit, and then went undercover as an arms dealer

in North Korea and Africa, I believe, oh, and then he became a nanny for little kids. naturally. That is what you do after a couple of prison terms, a career as a Coke, an arms dealer, and a mercenary. So I think I got most of it. You might recognize him as Mr. James from the documentary, The Mole. If you've seen it, that's about infiltrating the North Korean arms trade. Our episode with Ulrich, The Mole, is episode 527. Don't worry if you haven't heard that yet, but it is one of my faves. So definitely go back and listen to 527 if you haven't done so already either before or after this episode. Here we go with Jim LaTresh.

You're a very interesting character. You know, you play this arms dealer guy in the movie The Mole in the underground investigation. So for people who don't know, you essentially duped North Korean arms dealers into thinking that you were some oil tycoon who was going to invest in weapons for Syria. This is not a fictional plot. This is, you got him caught on camera, caught on Mike doing this. And I thought, this is an interesting dude, this actor. but you're not just an actor far from it.

And I want to back up because your childhood and upbringing is pretty unique, especially I would imagine for Denmark. Yeah. Yeah. So at first, your book kicks off. You grew up poor in a place they probably call the ghetto now in Denmark. And my first reaction was, wow, you have poor people in Denmark too. I wouldn't have believed it.

You wouldn't know by the news and the image we have of you here in the United States. I have to add something to that because our poor is. is not even close to your poor. Got it. What do you mean by that? That means that we have a security net. So if you're poor in Denmark, you're not left to die on the street. The government will support you.

So let's just say we come from a low-income family. Right. Okay. That makes sense, right? You're living in government housing as opposed to a tent near a junkyard on the street. Yeah, I mean, and again, watched with American eyes, what I refer to as ghetto, you will refer to as a nice place to live.

It's sad. It is funny, but it's also sad, right? It's like the lowest rung in Denmark is somewhat near the middle rung of the United States in terms of lifestyle. Yeah. Sometimes I'm thinking, like, you're constantly fear for socialism because, you're constantly fear for socialism. Because we are a socialist country, but when you know us, we are not this kind of socialist,

as you refer to as communism. I will say that the country is more what you can refer to, social liberalists. When we pay high taxes to make sure that healthcare is taken care of, that poor people would get a place to stay and stuff like that, is basically an insurance. You pay an insurance so you don't have desperate people. If you have desperate people, you don't know what's going to happen,

and that's what you pay for. It's not something about you should share all your money amongst everybody. It's just that some people don't have the same opportunity as others, and we have to take care of those people. Sure. I mean, we do know what's going to happen if you have desperate people, drugs, crime,

and other antisocial behavior. generally is what's going to happen. We just need to look outside and see that or a drive up to San Francisco and see that. And even in the wealthiest state in our union, we have lots of desperate people, man. Yeah, it's definitely a sad state of affairs and many countries have it much worse than the United States even. And I think a lot of Americans probably don't necessarily realize that either, depending on how well traveled they are. But your childhood, you indicate that it was pretty messy and taught you that you couldn't trust anyone besides yourself. Tell me about that. Tell me what led to that mindset. I mean, the thing is, I'm dyslexic and I have ADHD.

And at that point, you didn't use those kind of terms. So it was just like, you were not like everybody else. And I was a disturbing kid in school, because if you cannot concentrate, if you cannot focus, if you are left back because you don't have the concentration to follow the classroom, then you have to do anything else, then you start to interrupt and stuff like that. It was not because I was a violent child. But I think in the age of 12,

my ground school teacher convinced my mom it would be in everybody's best interest to send me to a boarding school for trouble kids. And it was at that point because when I was seven, my mom and dad got divorced, and he kind of started a new family. At that time, my granddad, that I had a very close relationship to, died. And of course, I was really pissed at my mom for sending me away. So at that moment, I kind of felt I was alone against the world. And at a boarding school for trouble kids, is it kind of like a prison where you just end up worse?

than you went in because everybody else around you is in that mindset and doing bad things? I think exactly what you say is a global problem because those places where we send people off to is basically just so they don't interfere with our existence system. We don't have a red threat of like, okay, how can we give this person the tool that that person needs to come back to society?

It's just like, let's just get rid of them. And that's the same like with the prison system where I came later on. And you can see it with the prison system in the States, is that if the system should work, is that you have a person who has some problem, we put him on a place, and when he comes out, he have learned his lesson,

he have some new tools, and he can be a part of society, but that's not the case. And that's the same with the boarding school, or foster places and so on and so forth. It's interesting because the image that I have of Denmark is from the news. Maybe it's Norway, and I'm just getting it confused, where, like, prison teaches you how to build skills and rehabilitates you, and the whole goal is to bring them back to society. But it sounds like you just have the same problem that we have here, which is, like you said, remove the problem child or the problem individual from society.

And then there's no plan for getting them back. If they make it back, great, but chances are they won't, they'd end up back in prison and they're basically just locked away, not rehabilitative. in any way. Exactly. And it is no way. They have worked on thinking differently because the whole problem, and that's, again, that's the same in the States, is that the politician who take those decisions, no, I'm right, but you don't get voters on it because people don't really understand the grab of it. They say, we want justice, but it's to explain people what is justice. I mean, justice for whom? Because right now, I say, it's feeling like pissing your pants. It's warm in the beginning. When you have the persons, he gets sent away, then that's

fixed. But then you don't think about the rest. And when he comes out, yeah, then it starts to be cold. So the thing I say is that we have to rethink all of the system. We have to think about what we put in. We have to clarify that that person, when they come home from that boarding school, or when it comes out from the prison, we found out why that person went to that place. and try to fix it in that situation. It sounds like you were lost even getting out of there because you get this idea to join the French Foreign Legion. And can you tell us what this is?

I think even if people have heard of it, which very few people have, a lot of people don't even know what that is at all. It just sounds like the French army and it's not quite the same thing. No. This is the thing you get institutionalized that normally you would say,

if you have been in the institution, At this time, I was sent away from home when I was 12, and I came back when I was 16. And the most rational thing in your mind was, I will stay as far away from institution as possible. But because it was such a big part of my childhood, the whole idea of joining the French foreign leader and there's definitely institution in the really hard way

kind of applied to me. And it was also because I didn't know, I would get back to what the French foreign leader Legion is, but it was also because I had a mom that was, how can you say, very nervous of anything happened to her boy. So I got a lot of anxiety when I was a child. I was afraid of doing a lot of things. So the reason why I joined the French Foreign Legion was to become a man.

And to explain what the French Foreign Legion is, is the philosophy about it came with Alexander the Great when he wanted to conquer the world because Magidonia is such a small. country and you don't have soldiers enough to keep the world. So what you do is you conquer one country and then when it's under your command you will take young people from that country and make them a part of your army. And then, so you take soldiers from other countries so you have soldiers enough. It was the Romans who actually used the term for the first time called a legion. Italy is not such a big country. So to have the world, you have to conquer. more people. And in the end of the 18th century, the whole world was basically split by all the European

countries. And most French colonies was not just in one area. There was really split around the world. So they definitely need other soldiers. So in 1831, the king, he started the French Foreign Legion. So foreigners from other countries could join the France. And it was also of political reasons because now when people went home in a body bag, people didn't give a shit. You didn't have to explain it to French mothers why the son didn't come home from French Guiana and so on and so forth, so forth. Yeah. Got it. Okay. So this is like the disposable French army where it almost sounds like Wagner, the Russian sort of paramilitary group that's full of criminals and things like that. It's like, and I don't mean to disparage the French foreign

Legion, but in a way where Putin can send them somewhere and nobody goes, what happened to my son? Because it's a guy who went to a Gulag or a prison or who's already maybe not even French, right, at this point. And it's a guy from another country that's already missing. No, but it's 100% the same because until 9067, it was definitely like that. You could basically at that time stand at front of recruiting center, shoot a guy in the head and go in and join and they will they raise your all identity. Wow. That have changed now.

The thing is, if you are hunted by Interpol, they will not let you in. But at that time, before 67, they didn't give it. Wait, if you're hunted by Interpol, they won't let you in. Why? Because now not just the French are looking for you, but other police organizations are looking for you. And it sounds almost like it's more inconvenient for them to do that, as opposed to, like, a moral thing.

No, the thing is they don't need soldiers as much now as they did back in 67. Right now, I mean, when I was down there, I was down there in 91, and at that time it was quite popular, so you had 300 people a week who wanted to join, and they could only use 30. But at that time, and the army right now is much smaller. In 91, when I joined, there was 8,500 men, and when they were at the strongest, I think they were between 30,000 and 20,000 men. Wow.

So about the same size as Wagner. in both time frames. When was that? When were they the strongest? Like in the 60s or something like that? Yeah, yeah, because, I mean, the French don't have that much colonies anymore. Right.

Where it kind of turned was, they were in Algeria. Algeria? Yeah. That was actually when the France kind of understood how dangerous it is to have a foreign army in your country because even the officers at that time was not French.

They had fought really hard to keep Algeria on their hand. And suddenly, I thought it was Charles de Gaulle, gave the country back to the rightful owners. And the legionaire felt he stabbed them in the back because they had fought so hard to keep that on France's hands. So they tried to do a military coup against the French. In Algeria?

No, no, the Legion wanted to take over power in France Oh, in France, they tried a coup? Yikes, wow. This really is like Wagner. This is just like the same damn movie all over again. So what they wanted to do was fly over Paris and take the command by power. But they didn't have planes, so they had to convince friends' pilots and something went wrong and officers was executed.

And at that time, the friends said, all right, we need to have more control about it. So after that, all offices had to be French. So they knew what was going on. Oh, in the Legion, I see. So before the French Foreign Legion was completely foreigners, other than maybe the top brass, right? And so things got out of hand. That is very predictable and totally makes sense.

Okay, so why did you want to join this kind of organization? Well, actually, let me back up. They seem to take all comers, right? You said you could shoot someone outside the head and walk into the recruiting office and they would erase your record. That was before what happened in Alger. Right, yeah, okay.

And they're taking all kinds of folks into this organization. Why would you then want to join this organization? Because it doesn't sound, I won't say unprofessional, but it sounds like a place where if everybody who goes there is really rough, it doesn't sound like the same thing as joining the French Army where there's a bunch of other people who grew up similar to you, educated, and things like that. This is kind of like desperate people join this organization from the sound of it.

Yeah, but it was, first of all, you have to understand, I was 19. When you're 19, your choices not necessarily give so much sense. Yeah. But it was like, I was so controlled by my fear. I was basically afraid of so many things. And I thought, if I go to one of the toughest places in the world, I would learn it in a heartbeat. That was the kind of my philosophy at that time. So when you join this, do you get a French passport after a certain number of years?

What's the appeal? I'm a little blurry on this, but I'm not sure you get your friend's citizenship already after five years or if it's first when you have served 15. I'm a little bit blurry on that one. Got it, okay. The thing was, as I said,

I was not there to become a pro-soldier. I didn't have the dream to be a professional soldier. I had some issues I had to fight with. I went through most of the things, and the last thing I actually missed was, I thought that the ultimate thing would be to be in a war. Right, okay. So you really wanted to test your manhood, so to speak?

Yeah, and at that time was when the war started in Yugoslavia. And we were told our company wasn't going. So in my mind, everything else what I did would be kind of repetition of everything else I had been doing. So we had a vacation and I just stayed home. Oh, you had a vacation. Oh, basically they sent you on leave and you're just like, yeah, I'm not getting on the plane that goes back to the military.

I think they look differently because if you desert while you are at service, they will find and hunt you down because somebody will be responsible for you leaving under their command. But I think when you do it on vacation, they're just like, yeah, nobody really had to take the blame from that one. And it's not because they didn't have the address because I didn't change my name. My mom sent me all kinds of shit, candies and stuff like that. And my sergeant, because he had a Danish girlfriend, was actually with me home and had dinner. It's my mom's house. So it's not because they didn't know where I was.

I never heard back from them. Really? Yeah. Wow. Nobody asked your sergeant like, hey, didn't you go eat dinner with his house? Yeah, he said he's not coming back. Okay. Anyway, moving on. I'm not sure they knew it, but he knew it. So, I mean... Huh. Interesting. And what's the training like? You said you wanted to join the hardest thing you could think of. Does Denmark not have a military with elite units that you could join? Or you just thought this is even more rough around the edges. Yeah, but the thing is to be a part of the elite in Denmark, you have to be a Boy Scout. And I'm not like that. I'm not good with authority, so I'm pretty sure I will never get to that.

Yeah, okay. That makes sense. And the other thing is that, have you ever been in Denmark? I have, but on vacation. And it's funny because I went there and I thought, this is a really nice place. And we went on a tour. And I said, are there any dangerous parts of Copenhagen? And he said, yeah, but there's no reason for you to go there.

And I said, he goes, I'll circle it for you on a map. And he circled the exact street and block where I had been staying with one of my friends. And I said, oh, yeah, this is exactly where I'm staying. Somebody got shot out here like a few days ago. And he's like, well, congratulations. You're staying in the worst part of the city. I thought to myself, this is like a really nice part of town compared to anything else. I mean, they had a kebab shops and they had all these cafes and stuff. And people did say, oh, you shouldn't wear your hooded sweatshirt. You shouldn't wear your baseball hat here because that's what the gangs wear. But otherwise, during the day, it was like families with children and it was just a lot of immigrants.

but it was far from dangerous thing. It didn't feel like Detroit, for example. No, no, no, no. And that's to say, I mean, people here have never seen what dangerous areas are. No. My wife's family, they come from another island, and sometimes they're like, oh, we heard there's big trouble. And we're like, no, we're actually sitting there right now having an ice cream. Yeah.

It's like Brooklyn. It's like families and kids. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's in Brooklyn. It's not Brooklyn in 1972. It's Brooklyn in 2022. It's a totally different story. Yeah.

And the thing is, yes, we have gangs. It's more like it's dangerous if you are or the gang member. Yeah. But as I say, we don't have desperate people. So like personal robberies, I mean, it's not because it has never happened, but it's very, very, very, very rare you hear about incidents like that. Every time you hear about those violent incidents, 90% is gang-related. Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, it's cold comfort for the person who gets shot, but it definitely is different than being targeted yourself, for sure. And we don't have that much weapon because we have some more sane weapon laws here than you got in your place. Yeah, that's a whole different podcast, I suppose. What is the training like then for the French Foreign Legion? You said you wanted to join the hardest thing. I assume this is really, really difficult stuff.

To become a paratrooper in any organization would be tough. Well, let's start with the training, but I'm also curious what the other guys you're training with are doing there and what they're like. So it was a really big challenge because at that time, I was 69 kilos, and I was not that athletic, and I knew nothing about the army. I had no idea of any army training.

69 kilos, wait, that's like 152 pounds. How tall are you? Aren't you, like, really tall? No, no, everybody think that when they have seen the film. I'm not. Yeah. I'm six foot. Okay, still, six feet, 150 pounds is really thin, man.

Because I'm 165, and I'm quite slender and muscular, and I'm 5'10. And I weigh 15, almost 15 pounds more than you did, and you were taller than me. So you were really thin, man. That's a scrawny guy. And at that time, this was the early 90s just after the wall came down, right? So Eastern Europe was just starting to be open. So in my regiment, in my company, we were like 50 soldiers, where 13 of them was from Poland. Like 75% was from Eastern Europe.

And all of those guys was ex-military. Uh-huh. So what actually saved my ass was from. the old Chevo Slovakia, because you get hooked up by another guy, so you work together. And he used to be a captain in the Czechos army. And I mean, this guy, he definitely saved my life through training because, I mean, he knew how to iron. He knew how you should put your closet.

He knew, like, when they gave an order, what that shit meant. And in the beginning, I was like night blind. I mean, when the sun stopped, I couldn't see shit. So, I mean, we took laces, tied them together, and he put it in his belt, and I just followed him when we walked in the night. I couldn't see shit. It took me really long time. So this guy, he really saved me in so many ways,

how to clean the weapon in an easy way. I mean, you know, all those small tricks. I remember I was asking him, I mean, you're a captain. I mean, you're an officer. Why the hell would you start all over? And he said, that's easy. Because as a captain at that time in Chavezlovak, he made a thousand French franc a month.

And there, just at our recruit stays, they paid 3,500 French francs a month. And he knew he could do a career quite quick. So his salary, I mean, when he had been there in 15 years, he didn't have to do anything else for the rest of his life. He could save so much money. And after 15 years, you get your pension. So if you have a very high rank, your pension will, of course, be better.

Because right now, there's not that big different from Eastern European countries and the rest of Europe. But at that time, it was like crazy what the living differences that there was. Yeah, so he was getting paid like $160 a month, a thousand French francs back in his regular military. He joins the Foreign Legion and goes on up, and he's making like $5, six, seven, $800 and up plus a pension. And I would imagine the pay scale goes way up as you ascend an organization like that as well. Oh yeah. And the thing is, if he just become a sergeant and with the knowledge he had, he could be that within two,

three years. If he takes two years in Africa in one of the colonies, he could at that time, get 25,000 French franc a month. Oh, wow. Yeah, and you are down there on a two years contract, you don't spend money on anything down there. So just that would be a huge pension he could bring home at that time. I mean, that's 25,000 French francs to dollars is like $4,000. I mean, it depends on the exchange rate, right?

Because it doesn't exist anymore, but you're looking at like $4,100 a month with no expenses, and then you go back to a place where you can live on $100 a month. And you also have to acquire that was back in 91. At that time, the prices were so much lower in the country. So a lot of them went down there for the money. But I mean, this guy, he definitely saved my ass. And also knew, like, in the evening, what things we should train to keep in shape. And within one and a half years, of course, you have to put in mind

from when you are 19 until you're 21 as a man, you're still in a growing phase. But for one and a half year, I went from 69 kilo to 89 kilo. Oh, wow. I gained 20 kilos in one and a half year. Yeah, so you're basically at that point, like 200 pounds. And I would imagine you're not just getting fat

because you're walking 19 miles a day or whatever it is that you're doing. Not that much, but one thing is that when you have ADHD, your motor weak, I mean, your movement skills is not 100% perfect. And when you're not good with authority, make you do a lot of pull-ups and sit-ups and push-ups. I mean, all those things together put me in a really good shape.

Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm exaggerating at 19 miles per day, but I would imagine you do quite a bit of marching and walking in the French Foreign Legion. But, yeah, I guess a lot of sit-ups, a lot of pull-ups. Did you have to learn French? It's probably a dumb question.

No, no, you have to learn. And it's kind of surprising how fast you learn. I would say within one month, I could understand, like the basic things, right? And within four months, I could have a conversation. Yeah, that's like when I was an exchange student living in Germany, I was like, I'm never going to get this. And then you sit in enough chemistry and math classes and you're like, oh, I understand what they're talking about, even if I can't put it into the same words.

And then one day you're in a taxi and the cab driver's asking you something. And you just start talking. You're like, wait a minute. I can speak German, right? But what also helped you in Germany, as it does in France, because if you look at something that's quite interesting, all countries that used to be an empire, they only speak their own language.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like all the film you see is in French. I remember with Terminator 2 came out, I saw it in French, and all the music they hear, they are a little bit American, but they're mostly here French songs. So wherever you are, you're just surrounded by French. because if you come to Denmark, you would never learn Danish

because everybody under 70 in Denmark speak English. That makes sense. And our film is in English. Our music is in English. And if you start to speak English, it's really hard for you to say, speak Danish to me

because everybody here is so happy that they can practice their English, so they will speak English to you. That makes sense. When I went to Yugoslavia, it was Serbia, it was really tough to learn Serbian because most people wanted to speak English, and the people that couldn't, you just weren't

around them as much working in a professional environment and things like that like I was. And also being an English teacher didn't help. I heard they made everyone sing, though, in the French foreign leaders. Were you singing in French? When you say was I, no, I was not, but everybody else was. And a lot of people, do you know this whole board program called X Factor? Yeah, like the singing? Yeah, yeah.

And one of the judges there once said, everybody can learn to sing under the right circumstances. And I totally disagree with that because if you can imagine a company in French where, like, 75% speak really a horrible, Eastern European's strong accent. If you are in that setting told to shut up because you're saying horrible, I rest my case.

So everybody else was singing, I was listening. So you're the one guy who's not allowed to sing, even though there's a bunch of, I don't know, Czech people singing in French or whatever, and they're like, wow, but this guy, this Danish guy, we're drawing the line at that. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

Jeez. I don't even want to know how bad that must have been. Oh, no, no. I'm used to not being good at a lot of stuff. I mean, same with a bowl. Everything that is round that either you, should throw it, kick it, whatever. I'm horrible.

I'm so horrible that I'm not allowed to throw hand grenade. They don't get fine enough. They banned you from grenades? That's probably a good idea. Yeah, they 100% banned me from grenade. So when we had practice, they just gave me a stone. The other thing is too dangerous for the rest of us. That's funny.

The thing is, it's really funny because my oldest son is playing American football on the Danish national team. Wow, so he's athletic. He gets it from his mom. And he can play basically all positions. So he doesn't have my skills in being an idiot with a ball, no.

That's so funny. Ban from hand grenades actually sounds like a pretty good policy for a lot of folks. You mentioned that the Legion would never take you only if you are wanted by Interpol. What happens if they find out they are wanted by Interpol? because usually do they just check that

or do they just find out after? They check it. They have their own intelligence service. They will check that straight away. So, I mean, first you have to find a recruitment place. I was in Paris. You know, in all city, you have this information house and stuff like that. I found one of those and say,

where can I join the Legion? They look at you like your completed retard. And said, yeah, you just go to that place. I went there and there they just put people together when they had people enough, they send them to southern France outside Marseille. And there you have a recruitment place where you are for two or three weeks

where they check your health and you do an IQ test and you do a physical test and stuff like that. And when I was there, there was a German kid where they found out that he was rounded by Interpol. But what they do, they don't turn you over. They say you have 24 hours to leave the premises and good luck.

Oh, wow. So they just let you escape as opposed to turning you over. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. There's a lot we can obviously talk about the French foreign Legion. That stuff is super interesting. It makes sense to talk about how you discover the drug business, because that turns out to be kind of a big part of your life at some point. Yeah, so when I came home from the Legion, at that point, the techno era hit Copenhagen. And at that time, I mean, it's not because people didn't take drugs in Copenhagen, but it was not like a mainstream kind of things. You have heard about people smoking weed and stuff like that,

but cocaine was basically people up north in the wealthy area who traveled to expensive places and stuff like that. But it was not like an everyday thing. So when the techno music came, it kind of exploded on Copenhagen. And in this techno environment, I was kind of introduced to the underworld, if you can say that. And at that time, it was not because I had a dream about being a criminal. But for the first time in my life, I met this group of people that was basically like myself because a lot of criminals also have ADHD and are also different.

And this is why, like, changing the school system have been a big part of, the things I'm doing now because I think if we rethink the way we treat people as a society, a lot of those people, because a lot of those people I've met in that world, are really clever, intelligent, and if they have had another chance, they could have done something complete different with their lives. But it was in that environment that I was introduced to cocaine. And how do you get started trafficking, right? Put in a little bit up your nose, okay, you're at a party,

I guess that's sort of self-explanatory, but how are you then like, I need to start buying and selling this and making money with it myself? So it just started with that I'm quite extrovert, and I looked at how the business was going, and I was like, I think I could do this. You have to think about a kid that have never really been good at anything, and suddenly you show this thing, and, I mean, I have ADHD, so cocaine doesn't really work on. me. I mean, I've not really been addicted to anything in my life except cigarettes. Cigarettes have been really difficult for me to let go of, but anything else, I've never

really because if I take cocaine, I become introvert. So, I mean, it was not because I could see what all the fuss was about. And in my mind, actually still is, alcohol is way more dangerous. So it's not because I saw what I was doing as like this horrible, horrible thing. And And at this time, you didn't in Denmark had all the side effects that is to doing a lot of cocaine. So I just saw that I think I could be really good at it. And it also started opening a whole new world for me because suddenly, I mean, I'm not born in Copenhagen. I'm coming from a small town, 60 kilometers outside, a working class area. And suddenly, I mean, when I was a kid, I was told.

that the people you wanted to look up to were stocktop, politicians, lawyers, engineers, shit like that. And suddenly all those people becomes your client. So it's also in that way a little bit difficult to see what you do is so horrible wrong. Interesting. Yeah, because you're like, oh, I'm hanging out with all these people. I must be doing something right because these are the people that I was told to emulate when I was younger.

Exactly. And none of my clients, I've never sold cocaine to a lone mom who had to spend all her welfare on that and not be able to give her child food. I mean, this was people who called me because they had made a deal on $200,000, $1 million and celebrate that. So it's just like really difficult to see it was so bad. I did that for some time and then I start to think about it. because at that time, I just bought it from another guy in Denmark. And perhaps I could tell myself what I was doing is not that bad,

but it was still illegal. And the punishment for dealing drugs is they don't take lightly on it. So at one point, I had to think about my security. And so I was like kind of thinking, okay, I'm buying from somebody in Denmark. I don't really know who he is buying from. And I don't know who he's selling to besides me. And so you can actually see you're caught in some kind of pyramid because if the police catch one and the police have a lot of time,

then they start to look at the rest of the network and you can be caught in that. So I was like, okay, what about if I take it home myself? And instead of selling it to other people who can sell it, get into the country and only sell to the end users and make sure that the end users is not the usual suspect the police look at as the people I told you about before. You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show

with our guest, Jim LaTresh. We'll be right back. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, and creators every single week, it is because of my network. And I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course.

It'll help you build your cocaine mercenary nanny business. But the course, it really is all about improving your relationship building skills and inspiring other people to want to develop a relationship with you. Obviously, guys like Jim do a lot of this stuff naturally, but these are the systems that'll help you maintain it. And the course does all of this in a super easy non-cringy down-to-earth way. It's not going to make you look like a jerk. It's not going to make you feel like a jerk. It's just going to make you a better colleague, a better friend, a better peer, and a better connector. In a few minutes a day is all it takes. many of the guests on the show,

subscribe and or contribute to this course. So, come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at Jordan Harbinger.com slash course. Now, back to Jim LaTresh. So you go from being a middleman to smuggling the cocaine into the country yourself,

but instead of selling to other dealers, you're like, hey, if I only sell to doctors, lawyers, and famous people, I'm not going to probably get caught doing this. And it does have some logic to it, because it is more dangerous with drugs, right, to buy small amounts at a time because you're at the bottom of the food chain, the quality is low, there's a lot of moving parts up in the supply chain, but if you buy larger amounts, you get better stuff at a better price, you get to know your

network more because more money is being transacted, so people are vetting you and each other probably a little bit more. It sounds like it goes from a sort of party business or like a lifestyle business to a real business for you. It did. And also try to keep it on a level not to be too greedy. So I didn't want to escalate it too much. I really wanted to know who my client was. And since I bought it from the beginning, there was a very, very high profit on it. So I didn't even have to sell that much for having a decent living. You write in the book, never base your standard of living on criminal earnings. That's rule number one. Tell me about that rule. Yeah, because then you are controlled by something you cannot control.

You mean like the supply chain? Yeah, I mean, you don't know if at one point shit can happen. Your career can be caught. A lot of things can go wrong in a business like this. You don't have insurance and stuff like that. And that was actually why I got called because I broke that rule. And I did that. I just spent way more money than I could provide legally.

Because at one point, I start washing my money. Okay. How? A lot of people, they use, like, pizzeria, sunbed places, candy stores and stuff like that. But I like suits. I started importing suits from Italy. Then I sold them to myself. Okay.

And then I've sold them back again to people out the back door. But in that way, I had a big cash flow because the times where you could say your BMW was owned by your grandmom was kind of over. So I had to have like a way to wash my money. So I used that one. But it didn't generate enough money for the lifestyle I had. So when my connection

was put to jail, I should have taken a break, just stop up, go down and find a new connection, try it out, give it good time, look how it works. Instead, I had a good friend over here who brought it home himself, and I convinced myself that it would not be a problem because he was a very close friend of the family. And we saw each other and a lot of other vacation with children's and stuff like that. So I say if I didn't rush it and only put our meeting in like kids' birthdays and stuff like that, I could definitely keep it under the radar. So you're like sitting there grilling hot dogs and chatting with parents and there's kids are on a bouncy house outside and you're doing a deal for like six kilos of cocaine from

Columbia or whatever. Let's not go into numbers, but. All right. But let's just say we discuss the terms and condition in a very calm surroundings. You say let's not go into numbers and I get it, but you did get caught for this. How did you end up getting caught? Because one of his employees had a piece of paper with my name on and stupid and not with my company phone numbers on. So when they were caught, I was dragged into that. Got it.

So they started to look at you and did they catch you selling drugs? Because just having a paper is not a crime or being on a paper. Yeah, I know it's not in the States. It isn't in Denmark. So they can go into a drug dealer's house, find your name and information, and that's a crime in Denmark? Yeah. Without catching you selling drugs?

Yes. What? How? Because it's so difficult for them to catch people. So they give the police a lot of slack. Whoa. How could that not get misused all the time? I'm not saying it's not.

As an attorney, I'm just like, how on earth is it a crime from my client's information to be in someone's desk when the house is raided by the cops? Even if it says I sold Jordan Harbinger six kilos of cocaine on January 12, 2023, and here's the money he paid me, that's still not enough. I mean, there's still got to be, that could be fake. How do they know that it's legit?

Yeah, it's called Indichung, and it works pretty much in Denmark. Wow. In my first case, they didn't find one penny on one gram of cocaine, either in any of my properties or in my store. Well, man, if you'd been selling drugs in the United States, you would have sued the police for even talking to you about this in one money, I think. I mean, at least with any attorney that has two brain cells. Wow, okay, that's really something. I want to hear from, I know that we have Danish lawyers who listen to the show.

Somebody email me and explain this to me. Is this really how it works? I almost can't even believe it. It's crazy how easy that would be to misuse that government power. Wow. Yeah. What the hell? Okay.

So you go to prison, but in Denmark. I got sentenced five and a half year. Wow, for having your name on a piece of paper in somebody else's desk. I can't even believe it. Tell me what prison is like in Denmark, though. You should not be afraid of being raped. Let me put it in that way. Yeah.

It sounds like there's not a lot to be afraid of. I read Xbox. They got Xbox. Take out food. Yeah. You can work. I mean, that makes sense, I suppose. All those things is correct.

For some people, of course, it's dangerous. But I would argue if you don't cheat anybody, if you are having, giving anybody up. And if you basically take care of yourself, it's all right. But that's not the thing. Because I normally explain prison with a fairy tale I heard when I was a kid. And it's about this doctor.

He wants to be the most wealthy and powerful doctor in the world. So he wants to make a contract with the devil. So he makes a ritual. And out of hell comes a demon. And they sit down and start negotiating. They meet each other on one thing, that is, he get his wishes. But when he dies, he has to play backgammon with the devil for eternity.

He goes in on those terms and his risk is granted he becomes the most powerful and rich doctor in the world and on his time on the planet he starts studying to be prepared what does hell look like what is he going to face

what does the devil look like just to be prepared he dies of natural causes in the age of hundred the demon comes up pick him up they go down to hell yeah it's bad but not even as close as he had imagined and then he meets the devil

and yeah he's bad but not even close to what he have imagined then they start to play back gammon then he finds out the devil is stupid that's how it is to sit in prison you might have to explain you might have to explain that one a little bit because that is a good example

of something that's probably in the book that doesn't translate well at all like it's a funny story but I have no idea how to relate that to prison no see the thing is because I didn't know how Danish prison was. So I had to watch a lot of films see what prison is in the States.

Oh, gosh, yeah. So I come in and see, holy shit, I have an entire cell for myself. There's a closet. There's actually a television with a lot of channels. I was like, that's pretty neat. And I just had two months in isolation first, right? But...

Okay. That doesn't sound fun, but okay. No, no, no, they do that to pressure you to talk. Oh, okay. So when I was out of isolation and met the other prisoners, I was like, okay, most of them are new already, and the other one was like, okay, this is just like being in a kind of summer camp. But then I realized how the whole system works. You're surrounded by stupidity.

And it's still your freedom that has been taking. nothing happens, nothing develops you. And that's the same, no matter where. I said the only difference between an American prison and a Danish prison is that in American prison, you have to be aware of that you can't be faced with violence and rape. But the main thing, what it does to your head, is the same globally.

I talk to my friends who have been sitting two years in a Brazilian prison where you struggle with the same insanity as you do in the States. And he says, besides the violins and the mosquitoes and all those horrible other things is still the same thing it does to your brain, that nothing good comes out of it. And the thing is, if you don't have this development as we talked about, then it doesn't matter that there's flowers and there is a television or you can make your own food or anything. it will set you back in the same way as it will do in the States.

Of course, in the stage, you will, of course, have a way bigger pro-traumatic stress than you are in a Danish prison. But basically it's the same thing, if that makes any kind of sense. It does, right? Because you're surrounded by people who have also committed crimes. Maybe they're not the smartest. Maybe they're not doing anything. And you're thinking, oh, man, at least when I'm out,

I can learn skills or develop a network or further my career. when you're in prison, you're just stuck. And it doesn't matter what the conditions are like because you're still stuck. Yeah, but it's also the prison guards, the social workers. It's like everybody have given up. I mean, they've given up on you.

There's nothing in the prison who want you to think, I have to change my life. And the thing is, if you have been punished your whole life, punishment, as we know, it doesn't apply to you. Because I've been institutionalized

my whole life. I've been in prison since I was 12. There's nothing new in it. There's nothing that wants me to change myself. So I continued dealing drugs while I was in prison. Most people say, you got five and I have years. That must have been a shock. It was like, oh, I knew it could happen.

It didn't stop me. And the reason why I've changed is because when I met my wife, suddenly a person who saw me as a person and saw that I had the ability to do something else. So there has to be a person looking at those individuals and say, listen, you have such a created mind. Let's try to get something out of it. So you have to pull people out of the mental context

and put it into something else, if that makes any kind of sense. You mentioned in the book that kids can visit, the kids can even spend the night in the prison, but time actually goes faster in a closed prison than in an open one. What do you mean by that? The thing is, when you are in a closed prison,

you can leave out all your thoughts because this is where you are and this is how it's going to be. Time stands still, right? But when you are in an open prison, you start to come out a little bit, you have a little smell of what the outside looks like, And then you start to trying to live your life outside

while you're actually in prison. That's the most dangerous part. And that's what actually makes people insane. I normally say it takes me three to six months to adjust into prison because you have to start to live your life in prison. You have to give up everything on the outside. If not, you will go insane. That one is way easier when you have walls all over

and you are just there, and you're not getting out on any kind of things. That actually makes a lot of sense. It's not quite the same thing, but when I was an exchange student, they warned us, they said, don't try to live the life that you had in America while you're also living in Germany. And it was easy enough to do because we didn't have, like, internet and cell phones and stuff like that that we could readily use. But now a lot of exchange students, they go abroad, but they're still following all their friends on social media, sharing videos, talking in English, they never really adjust

because they're living in two places at the same time. They don't have that identity shift. And it sounds like that's the same thing that's happening or not happening in prison. And in the book, you say that there's a lot of danger from having power and money and possessions because once you take them all away, who are you? And when you base your self-worth on superficial accomplishments, it leads to a lot of uncertainty and instability. Did that make it harder to get away from crime, do you think? Were you attached to the identity? The material things that came with crime, of course, but were you also attached to the identity that those things came with, having not come from that? I have never felt so naked in my life when I made that promise.

And it took time. It took time because, like, one thing is that you agree that you will stop being a criminal, but to understand this concept, you have to understand first why the heck did you become a criminal? And why did you keep on being a criminal? And in my case was about low self-esteem. And I think what started making me believe myself is because my wife is really beautiful. And she didn't give a shit about any of the money.

She was willing to give up everything. And even that most of my adult life, I've always had like a gym bag with money close to me. So I always had money. And suddenly you go from that to just have enough to stay alive. And she never complained. And having like a Tim wife that most people would die for, really intelligent, came out of the university with the highest grade.

Like this superwoman wants you and believing you. I normally say if I was a racehorse, I wouldn't have bet on myself because when I went to jail for the second time, when I was 37, I had a child from an earlier marriage. I was about to serve my second drug convention on eight years this time,

and I had no education. Why would a 24-year-old beauty, intelligent woman bet her entire life on that person? Did you think there was something wrong with her, maybe? Like, what's wrong with your judgment? No, she's too clever for that. Uh-huh, okay. But, I mean, in the beginning, I just thought that, yeah, yeah, she said that until she realized

how hard it is to have a man in prison. But as she kept on staying, it raised my confidence at myself while I started to, like, look at small things. I mean, when was her most happy for my car I had? I had a huge guy. It was like, when was that? That was when I thought about buying it? From the day one, I had it, it just went downhill.

Sure. Like, every time you're parked and you hear this sound, that's $3,000. And, I mean, all those small things, and like, why did you have it? Why do you have a SUV in Copenhagen? I mean, that's ridiculous. It's difficult to power. It's because you need a powerful car to people to see how brilliant you are.

So this whole process just to find out, I mean, if you just are you. and not trying to be something you're not, then you relax more on yourself. And when you start to have this thing, and this is actually my drive today as well, is that I don't need that much today because it's just like, why should I have it? And it makes you really more calm

when you actually just meet people as you are instead of something you think they want you to be. That is interesting. And I would imagine a tough lesson or a great lesson or both to learn. I know once you got out of prison, your wife essentially made you go back to school, which must have been tough with dyslexia, ADHD,

and a prison background. And your wife says, if you want to stay with me, you have to go to school. That is a tall order, man. Yeah, I mean, we worked on that in prison. We had to find a system because I barely got nine grades. So we started to find out that I was dyslexic. The first year I was in prison,

We only saw each other one hour a week in 60 square meters with a cup inside. We could only communicate by letters, and those letters had to go through the cops. They have to read them. I read her really horrible. She read me back, but she also returned my letters with corrections of misspellings and grammar errors. And we found out that it was in that way we found out I was dyslexic,

but we found out I have a pretty good memory. So if there was word, I didn't understand. If people read them loud to me, I just repeat them many times and look at it. And then I start later on with audiobooks. That was how I learned how to read English, because now I could see what the word looks like. I did that process start reading a lot of books and start to understand a lot of things.

I was waiting for my sentence for one and a half year. And when I got my sentence, she said, you are ready now to take your high school diploma. So with her help, I took my whole high school. diploma from prison and got out of one of, with one of the country's highest average grade point average. Wow. And I was accepted to study psychology at Copenhagen University.

That's fantastic. I mean, that is no small accomplishment. And I know you started an educational corporation had to raise money for that, learned how wealthy people and investors act, which will come in handy in your North Korea operation later on it. I will say one thing people say about you, I've talked to a couple of your friends and I read your book, obviously, well, the Google Translate version of your book. People say that you have a high mastery of social situations. You can make people feel comfortable. You can make jokes. You can redefine

the social space while you're in it. And that's not only good for raising money like you did for education corporation, but also, I would imagine in high-stakes situations like what you were experiencing later on in North Korea, which I'd love to get into if you're up for that. Yeah, yeah. So tell me about the North Korea operations. This is such a weird thing to get involved with, as I'm sure you've heard before. Tell me what that's all about. I mean, the way I got into it was because that my case,

my prison case was a high profile case. So when I got out of prison, a lot of reporters wanted to make a story about me. But it was all like they wanted to know how much money I'd made, who my client was, and stuff like that. And I was not interested in that because I was like, What would that change? Would that make the world a better place? No, it would hurt a lot of people, but that's it.

And then a guy I studied psychology with, he said, my wife is working at Danish radio. That's the biggest broadcast we have in Denmark. And she makes this radio program, and she would like to make you tell your story as you wanted. And I say, if I should make a program, first of all, I want all editing rights because I want to make sure that you don't put it in another context.

It's not because I will change a lot. I just want what I say to be the thing you use and you cannot change it and stuff. And they agreed on that. And then I said, what I want to do is make it as a love story. I think it's most important to tell why does people become criminal, but what's more interested, what does it take for people to stop being criminals? And that process.

And they said, yes. And we did the show. The 18th September, 2015, we were nominated for best feature of the year at an award show. I remember I was really, really looking up for that. Being an award show, I had been at many times, but for the first time, I was standing on the States instead of cocaine in the bathroom to famous people. So we won. And at that award show, I met the director of the mall, Mass Brewerver. We met each other in the bar.

While I was in prison, I had seen some of his documentary. So we started to have a conversation. And one day he invited me, he had a radio station at that time. And he invited me up there for coffee. And we became friends. And then, like, six months later, he rings me up and he said, Jim, have you ever heard about the Danish North Korean Friendship Association? In my mind, I couldn't imagine that any...

anybody in a country like Denmark in any shape of form could believe that there would be anything good in North Korea. But there was. So he explained quite quick how Ulwijk at that time had been there for seven years, how he had raised in the grades and he had been in North Korea. And now the president, Alejandro Kaudebina, suddenly three years prior, start asking him if he could find some investors. Let me give a little background. So Ulrich, who you just mentioned, that's episode 527. He was The Mole, which is that film from the director that you met, that you are also in.

And Alejandro is this kind of like weird Spanish guy who is an honorary North Korean citizen or whatever, and he's just like a super fanboy of the Kim Jong-un regime and of North Korea. And he's just kind of a weird dude. And he wants you to find investments for North Korea, which is super illegal because it's a sanctioned regime. And what kind of investments is he having you look for? Like, anything or what? No, it was Ulwijk. He was asking Ulrich if Ulwijk knew anybody who could be interested. I see it.

Right, okay. And then Maths, the director, he started first looking at actors. But the North Korean have internet as well. So it would come up bad if they suddenly saw a guy who was an investor one day and play Hamlet the other day. Yeah. Then he looked at businessman, but no businessman in the right mind would go into a project like that.

Right. And then he thought about me. And in the beginning, I have to say, it was not that dangerous because, okay, it had something to do with North Korea, but the first scene we did was in Norway, Oslo. That's Scandinavia. That's pretty safe. So we are still in an area where we can have the situation under control. So I say, give me five minutes.

I talk to my wife and explain it to her. She thought it sounded nuts, but she also thought it sounded excited. And she said, yeah, do it. Called Matt's back. And two days later, I meet Ulrich in the airport. In the airport. Are you going somewhere at this point? We went to Oslo.

Oh, I see. I was going to meet Alejanto in Oslo. So we fly up there. They have rented a presidential suite up there. Yeah. And putting hidden cameras, hidden microphones all over. They have a guy that's an expert on this. And for people who does know this, I didn't know that either.

A hidden camera today is so small that when you see how small they are and how powerful they are, they will make you paranoid for life. Yeah, it blows your mind, like this little button, and you're like, wait, this is a high-res camera? Like, I'm never going to the bathroom again. Exactly. I mean, I had a computer bag, and in the button of the computer back,

there was like four screws, and there were star screws, and the screws were black, and in that hole, in one of the screws, there was a camera. And I'm talking about, you had to put it up, and put light, on to see that was a camera. And if you put that back over here,

it could film an entire room, 100% sharp. Jeez. Crazy. Yeah. And you're, what, talking with Alejandro and getting him to sort of, who was again the liaison with North Korea. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, at this point, Ulrich hadn't had any pointers of what he was interested in. He just said he looked for investment. So when he started to come out at this meeting, I mean, I talked to master's director and say, I mean, which direction should I go? And it just, just try to open it. All right.

So in the beginning, I said I would present this hedge fund, the family hedge fund, and we do different kind of investment. We invest in pharmaceutical, we invest in weapons and so on, just for him to feel relaxed of whatever. And then it just starts blabbing out that it starts with weapons. when he started to be hot, he ends up by telling about they had made methamphetamine

for some people in Canada. Wow. And I was like, all right, okay, that sounds interesting. And at this point, when we had been in Oslo, I kind of thought the movie was done. Because, I mean, you have to think about at this time, Ulrich, he had done that for seven years.

And Ulrich, he started just to prove that all this friendship association, there was something not right about it. After Oslo, we had to prove that, no, there's not. They're using this to get money from people in the West to Central North Korea. So in my mind, the movie was kind of done. So I didn't give it more thoughts at this point. And Alejandro's pitch is like, what, let's make methamphetamine

or maybe we can sell some tanks. I mean, you're showing up, I should say, as this investor, you're like, yeah, I'm an oil guy. We got to do something that's at least, what was it, like, $50 million or it's not interesting to my investors. I mean, you were really like laying your balls on the table, so to speak, and using your skills to make people feel safe, relaxed, really interesting. It's quite funny about this.

It's 50 million you. And it's really funny because this exact line, as you said before, that when I came out of prison, I was trying to raise money to do online coaching for kids in Africa. So no matter where you were in Africa, you had access to the best teachers around the world in a digital platform. So while I was working on that, I was in a Vesta meeting in London. I'm sitting in this Michelin restaurant.

At front of me sits a kid 25 years old running this hedge fund in a 10,000 pound suit. And I'm doing my whole thing on dance show, explaining my ideas and stuff like that. And he's just nodding. And then he said, Jim, I really love what you're doing, I must say. But I have to be honest with you.

My minimum investment is 50 million euro. And I'm like, you mean your maximum. He said, no, my minimum. And at that point, I thought that was the most coolest shit I've ever heard in my life. How can you as 25 years sit down and throw that number if it was like, oh, you have to know it's 500 bucks.

So I had to say to him, you have to explain this to an idiot like me. I mean, I don't understand those numbers. How are they so big? How can you say it like that? So, no, it's easy. We invest two billions a year. We just five people at the office.

There's too many contracts. I remember at that point, I was like, one day in my life, I would love to just sit back and throw out a number like that, like it was that. And then we come to this situation. It was like, okay, I just use it up there. This is the Jordan Harbinger show with our guest, Jim LaTresh. We'll be right back.

If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can always search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash AI. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, for the rest of my conversation with Jim Latresh. So you're just taking this line that blew you away five years ago and throwing it out to this North Korean agent. And you know when you say it, this guy is going to have a reaction like, what? He's going to have the same reaction that you had those years ago, except

he's going to go back and tell whatever, some arms dealer in North Korea or Kim Jong-un's people, and he's going to have the same reaction. That's so funny. You kept that in your pocket for years for this exact occasion. This is one of those gold card you just have for the right situation. Wow. Wow. Okay.

And then his eyes lit up, I would imagine, at that point, because he just saw dollar signs. Oh, yeah, yeah. You can see he say, five, zero, and then drink his water. What happens after that, right? Because it seems like you end up at some point going to North Korea because he brings that back up and drops that number probably to them too. And they're like, wait a minute, we've got to meet with this guy. As I said, in my mind, I thought this was it.

The film was done. We have proven that. Then there's kind of radio silence from maths and stuff. And in my mind, I just thought, okay, we did that at one point. They will come and say, oh, we have the film. It will come out. So this was in May, 2016. And I think in August, coincidentally, I meet Matt's in this town.

So it's funny. I just talked here to the producer. And we talked about, couldn't it be funny for you to meet him again? And just see what's happening if you say, yeah, yeah, I want to invest in this. Are you up for that? I say, sure. So I'm going to Madrid with Ulweg and meet him again. And at this time, I'm saying I know some people in Yemen

that's quite interested in this. And what weapons and stuff from North Korea? Yeah. Wow. And as I said, I watched a lot of documentaries while I was in prison a second time because now my brain become a sponge to learn shit. I remember I saw this documentary about Hitler. He had an idea during Second World War.

that he wanted to produce fake pounds and fly them over London and drop them down to break down the British economy. And I thought that was a really great story, really interested. It never happened, but he was really close to accomplish that. And I said, I can use that story as well. So I'm talking and say, okay, we have some people in Yemen, they're quite interested in the weapons,

so we can definitely find out of some business in that account. And the methamphetamine, they're quite interested in that as well. They have an idea to put it inside some plane, fly it over to Tel Aviv and drop it down, and he just loved that idea. And he said, okay, the next time

you have to go to North Korea and meet with the right people down there. Wow, that's fascinating. So you play the angle of let's make some money, but also let's screw up the West by doing this sort of cultural attack that maybe is denying by them that they don't have to take responsibility for doing. And your trip in North Korea, man,

in the mole, the movie, it's so bizarre, right? You go to this disability center, you're going to this water park, and it's like, the stuff in North Korea, I've been there a few times. There's no white people. So when you're around normal folks, they either ignore you like they don't even see you, like you're a ghost, or they can't stop staring at you, and it creates a crowd. And it's got to be very odd you walking around, even with your minders, at a water park, because there's not a lot of tourists that go to these things, as you might imagine. No, no. I mean, I had real fun in that water park.

So the thing is, one day we sit and drink. There's a lot of drinking out there. And the reason why there's that, in all business wise, because what does people do when they drink, they talk too much? But since I've been in the criminal syndicate for so many years, it's a dead thing to talk. The second thing is like, I'm 90 kilos now. Yeah, 200 pounds or something. They're like 50, 60 kilos.

And you know a lot of Asians is hard for them to break down alcohol. Right. That's why they turn red sometimes. Exactly. So that in mind, so when we drank in the evening, I was good. And so one night we sit and have a lot of drink, a lot of sake. We have two agents that follow us around all the places we go.

And at this time, it's nothing that. bothers me because his mind is 20 degrees Celsius outside. So you don't really want to go outside. So he's not like they have to follow me. While we sit and drink in this karaoke bar, and it's so bizarre because it's just me and the two agents alone in this karaoke bar, except two waitress in the bar. There's no guest.

We're just sitting there alone. And we sat there basically every night, alone. So he picks up his phone and says, oh, I had to show you the great leader he had made this waterquoise. for $100 million, I will take you tomorrow and show it to you. What he doesn't know is that I love water parks. I just love it. I actually went to Dubai just because they have a water park.

Because, I mean, the downside of a water park is like, you have to walk so many stairs to go up to the big slate. And I guess there must have been some sheiks down there who say, I'm not walking. So in Dubai, they have a water park where they shoot you up. And so I went down there, but this is just to explain how much a lot of water parks. So when he said, I want to show you, I'm saying, what are you talking about?

You're going to show me. I want to try it. I say, what? I want to try that one. Otherwise, I don't want to go. So Kang, he goes out, make some phone calls. I think perhaps Ulrich, he might think is a little bit embarrassing because he didn't want to go.

It was just me and one of the agents. And at this time, as you said, I hadn't been alone with any local people. And I thought to myself, I mean, how can I accomplish that without causing any kind of problems? So when we go to the water park, Ulweg and Kang, they go upstairs. Kang's English is actually quite good, but Misteri, who went with me, really poor. So when we go down to the changing room, and I have to say,

even after our standard, this water park was really nice. When we come down and we start to get undressed, I start to ask Mr. Rie some random question, Like, misery between you and me, where does the great leader lives? And he goes, oh, I cannot tell you. And I just come up with all kind of stupid questions. So I just take a quick shower and then I jump into the water park. This is Sunday in the prime time and it's packed.

And when I come in, I mean, my beer at this time is even larger than now. I have tattoo on most of my upper body. And it's just like silence. Like the whole water part. Everybody's just looking, it's like, what the heck is this Arab guy doing here? I mean, people are just losing their mind. And I'm coming out and there's this like 25 meters pool. And next to it, there's sunbeds where people are just laying and I'm like, howdy man?

And just go down, take a swim. And when I come up, one of the agents is there. There's no panic or anything because they trust me at this point. And then I see above his shoulder there is this. amazing water slides. And I have to say, I don't think this guy had been in a water park before, but there is like,

you know, this rubber ring you can sit in, but there is one, so you can be two persons. So I just drag him under my arm. I mean, I think this guy is nearly 60, right? So I pull him and we go all the way up, right? I sit down, put my legs good up, lean back, hold his legs. And in my mind, I thought,

okay, everybody had to try the water park. So I didn't want to tell him any security things or anything. So we just said, but he forgot to hold on to the handles. Oh, no. So at one point, we take a hop, and this old North Green guy just fly over my head. It was hilarious. So I had the time of my life, and I really wanted to go there because I would love to come home and say, I mean, okay, I did a lot of shit in North Korea,

but I did something nobody can say that. I did a water park. Yeah. It's such a ridiculous visual of this tattooed dude with a giant beard in North Korea with all these folks who've never seen a foreigner, many of them in their entire life in the flesh. Like only just people in movies and not even foreign movies, domestic propaganda consumption only. And even then it's rare. And there you are just hanging out tubing at the water park. It's such a funny juxtaposition.

How do you then continue making deals, right? you're drinking and they're what, trying to get you to buy arms, weapons, meth. In the beginning, they're taking us on all kind of tours, but we're not really getting the thing we were promised. So when there's like two days left, I think, okay, of security reason, I don't think they will let us back into North Korea. And I know, like, a lot of Asian, the first one to learn to know you and stuff like that. And I knew we didn't have that time.

So I had to come up with something. So I talked to Kang one of the days. I say, listen, first of all, I want to thank you. I had a great time out here. But to be out here, I have cost me 200,000 euros. For people to grasp that number I came up with, of course, it's bullshit. But what people have to understand is that

when you fly into North Korea, you fly into a black hole, your phone stop working. There's no internet. You cannot communicate with anybody outside. So if I had been, been the real Mr. James, for one week, I wouldn't be able to do any kind of business. So that number is not totally insane.

So I said to him, if we don't come up with something close to a deal at this point, I have to tell you, I'm not coming back. I literally cannot do that. And that's when things changed. Yeah, so they start, what, talking business, talking guns, missiles and methamphetamine. I mean, they kind of shocked us because the next morning, while we were eating breakfast, they said, okay, let's go. And at this point, we've just been downtown. Like, they wanted to show me because people are like, tell me about North Korea, that must have been horrible.

This must have been this. And I'm like, no, I was exciting. Good food, beautiful places because they wanted to show me a country in progress because they wanted me to invest in it. Right. They don't want to show me working camps and shit like that. They just wanted me to show you me the absolute best, took me to the best restaurant, the best shows. I went to see the opera and the water park and stuff like that.

So I hadn't seen anything. And then suddenly we start to drive outside town and suddenly the car turns into a ghetto area. I'm like, hmm, could I have said something that had lead them to think anything else? And the car suddenly stopped at front of a building. that looks like something that should have been torn down 10 years ago. Uh-oh. Yeah, you're thinking like, we're going to get killed here.

Yeah. I must have slipped up on my cover or something somewhere. What keeps me a little hope is that I knew, if they thought I was a spy, they would not kill me straight away. They would be the living crap out of me to know what I knew. So that gave me a little window. I knew it's not like you're going down that stairs and then you get shut in the neck. You get down that stairs and then you get down that stairs and then

Then you go in and you will go into a room that looks something like the hostel where a guy with a little sleeve and two knives will be ready for you and with handcuffs and shit. And I took comfort in that because then I said, okay, if this is happening, what would be if I was Mr. James and if I had nothing to hide, how would I react in a situation like that? So I started to think about all the time that my wife had tried to piss me off

and find that anger. And I was like, okay, when you open that door, you will be angry and insulted. That's the slightest thing that can save you. And then we go down the stairs, and I'd like, remember? Angry? Not afraid.

Angry. And then we open the door and suddenly we are in a very beautiful restaurant. What is going on? What it turns out to be is that as paranoid as they are from people, They are as paranoid from the people inside as well, because what people also have to know, in North Korea, you don't decide where to live.

It's decided from you. So, I mean, all the people who lives in Pungyang is people that's very close to the system. And for the people who brings in a deal as big as the one that they thought I was coming with, that will change their life. So where they brought us Had nothing to do with them not trusting us They brought us to a place They were controlled by them

The people we were out with So nobody else would steal me From them I mean not steal me like that Right But like people higher ranker than them Come in and take the deal off their hands Because this could be a game changer

In the lifestyle as the nerd Right So they think, okay, this guy's going to bring a lot of money. If somebody gets wind of this, they're going to steal the deal and I'm going to get cut out of this because I don't have enough power. So they want to lock it in while nobody else in another camp, another power broker, another arms dealer, whatever it is, can do anything about it. And that's very classic with authoritarian regimes, right?

There's a lot of cronies and there's a sort of top-down management. And the left hand never knows what the right hand is doing by design because you don't want to share anything because if somebody else gets more, it means you get less, right? It's like a zero-sum game. Yeah, and it also adds up because when you see later on, I'm going to Beijing, the people out there,

I think I'm in Beijing to talk about how to transfer weapons to Syria. And there, I basically have to start all over again because nobody has handing them over the whole situation. And they totally freaks out because I start talking about Syria. So the first day is like, you have this whole class thing,

can we trust this guy, what's going on and stuff? And then they fly one of the other guys who was down in the basement with me to Beijing the day after to verify, oh, this is what we are about. And it happens quite frequently when we meet these people. They really, really keep information

when they cannot meet me in person if they send other people, they basically have no information. Interesting. It's all compartmental. And you're meeting with these folks either in North Korea or Beijing, and you're talking about, it's a little bit fuzzy, but was it setting up a fake aid organization to smuggle North Korean weapons into Syria?

Was that kind of the premise of this? I mean, so in the basement, if we went a little bit, in the basement in North Korea, the thing is to get weapons out of North Korea is way more dangerous than get cocaine out of Colombia. You have so many satellites and intelligence service watching that country. What North Korea do is they send a lot of North Korean outside the country for cheap labor. So doing that, it turned out it would be way easier to make a weapon factory in another place. And so the idea was they should come up with a place. And first they came out with Namibia. But due to the sanctioned, Namibia pulled in the plot so they didn't want to touch North Korea at that time. And then they came with Uganda.

So when they said Uganda, I started to look at lands, I could buy down there. I found a broker who dealt islands. And I remember I found an island in the Victoria Lake. And I remember calling the producer and the director and said, I found a secret island in the Victoria Lake. I mean, nothing is more Dr. Evil from Jim Spun and that. Yeah, man. And a secret island factory that makes weapons and methamphetamine is pretty much straight out of a spy novel. Yep.

So I thought we go with that. So I started to negotiate. And in the Legion, I was, as you know it, four months in Djiboutian, Africa stationed out there. And I know on that continent, if you want to do any kind of business and keep it, you have to have a silent partner from the government. So I already said that when I talked to the broker

that if this should fly, we needed to have a partner from the government in. And then say, no problem. So we had a sit down. What's quite interested about this is like, this is one of the part in the movie that's not even filmed with hidden cameras. Because when we have this meeting,

I'm saying to them, listen, I think all you say is incredible. good. But I have to present it for my board. And I have a camera man with me already to film the island. Let's film the meeting because then there's nothing of what you said, I'm leaving out. And I just said, all right. And at this meeting, I'm saying, okay, I cannot tell you what are using the island for, but I want 100% privacy. And I want a permission that I can land Boeing 747 on the island and take off without customers look what's inside the plane. Oh my God.

And they agreed to that. They could even provide customs to sail around the island and make sure nobody interfered at what was going on. This is in Uganda? Yep. Wow. So they basically just agreed to be a completely illegal meth and weapons factory for the North Koreans for just purely for profit.

Yep. Wow. And not only that, because it turned out. that lived people on the island. Nobody have told me that. People lived on the island. Oh, so what were they going to do, just get rid of them? Yep.

It was so bizarre. So, as I said, we didn't know those people on the island. It didn't say that anywhere. So before the North Korean arrived, we had rented a boat with captains and stuff like that. And we were going out there with the real estate agent and the representative of the landowner. and we're standing near the lake

and I'm talking to the captain and I brought the producer the producer of the movie, he's a reporter and at this time because I know nothing about journalism and like, you know, ethics and stuff like that and I knew in Uganda it would be kind of complicated so I needed somebody I could answer so he came with me and as cover as my accountant

he was standing and talking to the representative of the landowner while I was talking to the captain And at one point he comes over to me and he said, just for the record, there lives people on the island. I said, okay, the representative of the landowner have told them that you are there to build a hospital. So, what? Yeah.

Do you have a mic on? And he said, no, we need to have that on film. We need to have a recording of that. Otherwise, everybody else who will watch the film think we have put it up to get a nice setup. And suddenly, I mean, the fate of those. poor people, it seemed like we just misuse them to get a good story. Yeah.

Oh, man. So we sail out there and the way we are welcome is so crazy. And while I'm out there, I know in America they don't know Tintin probably. Yeah, I've heard of it. I just, is it like a dog? No, no. Cartoon. Tintin, because in Belgium there's a famous cartoonist like Asterac and Obleeks and Tintin, he's an agent.

a detective who sold some kind of crimes and stuff like that. There is a very discussed cartoon called Tintin in Congo, but I just looked down on myself or what kind of clothes I had on. Like, holy shit, I looked like Tintin in Congo. And that was like what I thought when I was going into that island. And when we come towards the island, you have like hundreds of people with music, welcoming the white messiahs

who's going to build a hospital. It was so bad because one thing is that you're an arm stealer, but here is like innocent people at some point is caught up in this lie. And I said to the producer, I would not confirm, oh, or these people are there to build a hospital.

And he said, just avoid that one. Just avoid it. Go around, see the island. Let's get out of here. Let's get something on camera. And we go onto the island and then we got pulled off. meet the mayor, I meet kids, and then we go into a church, and it becomes more and more bizarre.

The representative of the landowner goes up and have the mess where he asks everybody to pray for me because I'm there to build a hospital. Oh, my God. And meanwhile, you're really, in theory, what's really going to happen is you're going to build an arms factory and a meth lab and kick everyone off their home. Yeah, we come to that because I'm sitting there and say, I need. on camera that this guy said that was his idea. So when I'm out of that choice,

I'm just going to the captain and say, do you know any kind of five-star resort on the coastline when we get back? I said, yeah, let's go there. And on the way, I'm calling them, and I will serve a meeting room where we can have a meeting, I book a table in the restaurant,

and I say to the guy, I really love the island, it seems really good. Let's have a follow-up meeting and then we go in our own, my account. And when we are at that boardroom, I'm just saying, you told the people on the island I'm there to build a hospital. Why? Just so we, it was really clear that this crazy idea didn't come from us. And he said that it's because it won't cause any friction. So they could start

working on the island while getting people off. I see. Because as I understood it, I mean, They live there illegally because they're so poor they just need some place to stay. But if they start to build houses in another way, you cannot just kick them off. So if they had any idea what was going on, then they will start to build in that way and they couldn't get rid of them.

Oh, I see. Since they were in more or less temporary circumstances, they figure, okay, we can tell them we're building a hospital. They won't know. We could even ask them to leave and say, oh, you know, we need you leave temporarily while we build this hospital and then you can go back,

and then they just won't ever let these people come back to the island. Yeah. Jeez. And they're celebrating this. It must have felt so gross to have them celebrating this. But it's also proving to me, and this is what I hope people understand when they see it, is that they're so open about this,

that this is not a one-time thing. This is just what happening down there. The corruption, you mean? Yeah, yeah, because if we had an idea of by doing that, we would never let anybody have that on camera. We would have been like, okay, all phones out, all phones out, okay. By the way, we're going to tell them this and this. This is going to go and happen.

Right. To be so casual about it, I can imagine that the guy is a Christian man. And if you as a Christian man actually can stand in a church and use your God's word while doing this, then in your mind, you're not doing anything wrong, not even close. Or is it just a complete sociopath and doesn't care? That's also possible. Yeah. Take a pick.

Yeah. Man. So, look, I know we're sort of running up on time here, and the story has been amazing. People can find the rest of the story in our episode with Ulrich, the Mole, episode 527, and I'll link that in the show notes as well. We'll put a trailer here in this one. But what was the final outcome of this, right? Obviously, there was no arms factory.

There's no meth factory. But are you worried about the North Koreans coming after you? I know Alejandro is currently missing the Spanish guy. he's basically on the run. His passport's been revoked by Spanish authorities, but he's in the Schengen-EU area, right, so he could get out by train. Nobody seems to know where this guy is.

Are you worried about people being upset with you? I mean, you're in a movie that clearly you raked North Korean intelligence and arms dealers over the coals in a public way. Does that bother you at all? Or do you keep you up at night? No. No, it doesn't. And I think the reason why it doesn't is because the North Korean have done

what I cannot expect that they would do is that they say this is propaganda. It never happened. I can understand that because react on it would be way more embarrassing that a former chef and a former cocaine dealer have over the whole regime. So just saying it propaganda is what keeps us safe. That's true, right. If you end up dead as a result of North Koreans, then it gives credibility to the idea that a former chef and a former cocaine dealer ran their arms dealers around for months and

months and months or years even and embarrassed the whole regime and got it all on camera for mass consumption. And I love them all. I thought it was an amazing movie. I hope it gets released in the United States soon because people keep asking me where they can watch it. But it's just so ridiculous how these guys plan on selling you missiles and then they're going to get to Syria and they're and I drop methamphetamine in the cities in the West and ruin the civilization. And it's like two dudes who are essentially not even employed, right? Like two unemployed dudes running through your water park and drinking at a restaurant and filming the whole thing for a documentary.

It's just absolutely bananas. I think the MI6, former MI6 agent says at the end of the mole, is one of the greatest civilian-led intelligence operations that she's ever seen. Yeah, it was such a psychedelic rush. Yeah, I guess I can see what you mean. Like, were we ever in North Korea with arms dealers? Because that's weird, and I can't imagine that that really was a real thing. But here's the photo.

My wife knew everything I was doing. Because every time I'd been on a mission, I told her and explained her in details. But when the movie was in the editing room, I brought her to see it. It took us five hours because it was just, can you post it for a second? What is that? Can you pause that for a second? What is that? And see, in the end, you are insane.

And it is mind-blowing. It's just, it's really crazy, yeah. I know Ulrich's wife was not super thrilled when she found out that he was undercover as a North Korean Friendship Association dude, potential arms dealer or hooking you up with an arms dealer. She was not thrilled about that whole adventure. either. Look, man, you've exposed a lot about North Korea, and you've led a really interesting life from the French Foreign Legion to pretending to sell methamphetamine and missiles to the Syrian regime. But I also heard that someone hired you to take care of their kids out here as an

opair in Redwood City. Is that before or after your Coke dealer stint? That's before. Okay, that makes more sense. Yeah, yeah. Thank God. I was like, how do they vet these people? That was before. I came home from the Legion and then I was just six months in Spain where I was a manager for a nightclub and then I thought that sounded exciting to be a babysitter basically

a male nanny in a suburb of San Francisco well man you're full of surprises Jim I hope I get to meet you in person one day and I really appreciate you coming on the show dude this is a hell of a lot of fun and a long time coming thank you so much you're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show

with a retired chef that somehow infiltrated the illicit North Korean arms trade. There was a meeting where people could come and see how North Korea is, the propaganda way. It was like three hours praising Kim Il-sung by what he did for the country. When people ask me, how is it to go to North Korea? Well, it's quite difficult to describe because it's like your whole body is on overtime. You know you are being followed and what do I say and what do I do? How do I react to things?

I'm going to the US to meet up with a CIA agent. I was like, wow. And I find out how my agent thinks. One of the most important things he taught me was to be a perfect mole or undercover agent is that you have to be 95% yourself and then 5% mole. The last 5% is the one who observed and I was really good to networking with people. Without people actually know I was networking with them. Everything was recorded.

So I just literally took the pants down on the whole regime exposing their weapons program. It's a never-ending story. For more on how Ulrich the Mole, a Danish chef and family man, wound up working undercover in North Korea to expose its illicit arms trade. Check out episode 527 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Like I said, Jim has had a life. One of the most interesting guys I know. And I'm glad that I could introduce him to y'all.

We didn't even get to him getting into it with a big time Jordanians. smuggler or meeting Mark Zuckerberg or hanging out with Puff Daddy's crew and some bikers and some other businessmen. You know, part of this is just Coke dealer stuff. You just run into a lot of people not saying that Zuckerberg does Coke. He might be more interesting if he did, but that's a complete coincidence that I happen to mention these things together. I'm just going to stop talking now. Jim was very clear that you can add him on Instagram and he will answer questions if you want. I thought that was pretty cool. Guests have never really done that in my memory here. We'll link to that in the show. notes, of course, along with all things, Jim LaTrash, which will be over at Jordan Harbinger.com, or just

ask the AI chatbot on the website. Transcripts in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. And yes, our newsletter, we bit wiser every week. The team and I dig into an older episode of the show. We take the lessons and takeaways from it. If you are a fan of the show, and I assume you are, and you want to recap of important highlights and takeaways, something from the back catalog. Maybe you want to know what to listen to. next. The newsletter is a great place to do that. We're going to be doing giveaways on there as well. Jordan Harbinger.com slash news is where you can find it. Don't forget, six-minute networking over

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