The Jordan Harbinger Show - 917: Friendship Friction Due to Cocaine Addiction | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

The reputation you've spent your professional life building is threatened by association with your cocaine-addicted friend. Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: You can't be envious of what someone else has without considering the unenviable parts of their story you'd prefer to avoid. The reputation you've spent your professional life building is threatened by association with your cocaine-addicted friend. Which relationship is worth saving? You seem to be condemned to a life of working for crappy bosses. What can you do to break this undesirable pattern? You're 41 years old, and — for no reason that's ever been made clear — you've been estranged from your older sister and her family for about 15 years. How can you (and should you) seek reconnection? You and your wife are good at conversing with strangers and close friends, but you find it challenging to talk to people you've only met a few times and remember details about their lives. How can you remember or tactfully re-ask questions about things you should already know? What do you do when a troubled ex's suicide threatens the new love you're trying to cultivate? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/917 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Have you ever had a moment where you think, man, someone should really do something about this? Then you realize, maybe that someone is you. Well, with the help of GoFundMe, you can change someone's life. You could start a GoFund me to help a friend pay for school, fund that new community space, or help a local kid finally get to that national competition. I've seen this myself. Last year, a friend of mine launched a GoFund me to help with medical bills after an unexpected surgery. It was incredible how fast the support rolled in.

People want to help. They just need a way to do it. And GoFundMe makes it easy. So do you have a dream, a person, or a cause in your life that could use some support? Don't wait for someone else to bring change. You can be the one who makes a difference. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com. That's gofundme.com. Gofundme.com. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer,

my plant-based partner and prescription, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed,

more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from mafia, enforcers, cult members, hostage negotiators, four-star generals, Hollywood directors, CEOs and neuroscientists. This week, we had Jim LaTresh. This guy, I don't even know how to categorize this guy. Jim is, he joined the French Foreign Legion, and then he went undercover in North Korea as a fake

arms dealer, and he's just a wild, he's got a wild, wild life story. On Fridays, though, we share stories, we take listener questions, we play obnoxious soundbites, and roast Gabriel for his appearance and or life choices, although I have no room to talk today because I'm doing this shirtless. I'm doing the show. Topless. Yeah, I was wondering if we were going to address this.

You just rolled in from your workout. Sans Camisa. That's right. Sans Camisa. Cabanito. Am I right? I just didn't have time to shower or even put on clothes.

So here we are. Sure. Yeah. You're lucky we don't put these on YouTube anymore. No, we do not. There's multiple reasons for that. And one of them is because I may or may not be naked during the show.

All right, before we dive into the letters today, a listener sent us email recently after I listening to our deep dive on envy and I thought it was quite interesting. Gabe, you want to read that for us? Sure. So she writes, hey guys, I work in an office job by day and as an exotic dancer by night. I don't do any sex work, but the strip club is largely seen as a brothel for some. I'll have people asking to spend $500 to $1,000 for me to get a room and asking what that comes with, et cetera. I also don't like lying as I don't like treating others the way I wouldn't want to be treated, and if a girl told me that she would do X and didn't, I would be very angry after spending

several hundred dollars. That's also not a safe thing to do for me when they find out that they won't get what they want. The last day I worked, a patron rescinded their $500 offer since it didn't come with sexual favors. It really had me down. Having character is literally costing me thousands of dollars, and I'm in debt. I could be living a life of luxury, and I hear about the thousands of dollars other girls make, and at times it's hard not to be bitter. I listen to your deep dive on envy, and the one tip that really helped change this is, if you want what someone else has, you have to take their whole life with it. I'm so grateful. I'm not in a position to have to do the things I don't want to do, and I don't want the life that comes with the money. Such a helpful tip. So I really love this,

both that she found the idea useful and that it applied even in the world of exotic dancing and sex work. And what she's saying is that she could be a sex worker, but she's not. But she wishes she made sex worker money. And to me, that's the same thing as saying, well, I could be a lawyer, but my hours would be horrible, but man, the other guy has a boat. It doesn't matter if it's white color work in an office or taken off your clothes in a strip club or a brothel or whatever, which is a great reminder that you can't trade lives with somebody without trading your whole life with that person. In other words, you actually would have to do that work to get that money. And you'd have to watch your back from crazy stalkers and psychos. And you'd have to go to the

doctor on the regular to make sure you don't have some kind of crazy STD from whatever dirtbag rolled in last weekend. And you'd have to tell people that you date, what you do for work and either lie about it or face the stigma from them and the judgment. And you'd have to take that hit that you take when you're a sex worker, whatever that might be, status, judgment, hours, workload, mental health, all that stuff that people don't realize sex workers actually have to go through and deal with. And also, one other thing, I find it interesting. I find it interesting. that she was envying people who do a completely different job from hers. This is an important point in my mind because it seems like it happens to be adjacent to her work as a dancer because

it's in the same place. It seems similar, right? It's in the same building. It starts in the same building anyway. But it's a completely different line of work with its own unique demands and unique stressors. By that logic, she should have just as easily envied the bartender or the owner of the club or the person who maintains the facilities. But she didn't. She envied the other women. And there's something in there about how proximity and similarity have a way of breeding envy. That's a whole other topic.

In fact, one that we cover in the deep dive on envy. So I wanted to share that with you guys because I really love this transformation our friend here went through. And it's such a universal takeaway. And thank you as well for sharing this. I know it's probably not easy to write in and be like, so I'm in this line of work and don't judge me and I'm going to be vulnerable here. And on that note, a lot of you wrote to us about our strip club names on Feedback Friday a few weeks ago.

Apparently, we just killed it with the made-up strip club names. By the way, though, I did know Deja Vu was real because there's one in Ipsilani, Michigan near Ann Arbor. And Gabe, did you know about the booby bungalow or did you just pull that one up? Because that one apparently is a real place, and a lot of people sent us pictures of the sign and the billboards from the highway and the Google listing and reviews. and all this stuff. Gabe, I don't know. I mean, you're famously a strip club guy. So do they have a vegan lunch buffet over there at all?

Or what's going on? Yeah, big time. It's my favorite way to spend a Tuesday afternoon. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. Yeah, I literally can't even imagine you in a strip club at all, unless you had to, you'd need to bring like a backpack, like a camel back full of hand sanitizer

and a little notebook to scribble notes for your stories or something. Yeah, some cover story. You know me very well. I have actually been to one strip club in my life. And it was in Nepal of all places. Did I know about this? That sounds very shady. Not going to lie.

I mean, Deja Vu has its moments, but Nepalese strip club just sounds different. Honestly, not much of a story. I lasted maybe eight minutes. It was sad. It was not an easy, yeah, it wasn't a fun night. Yeah, I'm trying to think of a strip club name for Nepal. Nepal, the nooky nook. Nepalese nooky nook, not doing it for you.

Yeah, the Catmandu Kitty, just not the highlight of the trip. Yeah, we're going to get emails about that. Here's the billboard for the Catmandu Kitty, just next to base camp. You know that place exists. Those places, though, always somehow sound a little bit more human trafficking-y than a regulated club in the USA. Or maybe I'm just naive, and they're all horrible. A little shipping containery, I think. Oh, God.

I couldn't do it. I ended up there because a guy I met at the hostel I was staying at. We went out one night, and we were just one night. and we were just wandering. He's like, let's go in there. And I was like, well, I've never been to a stripway. He's like, we're going in. Red lights everywhere.

What could that mean? Actually, weirdly, they were blue, but whatever. That's a side note. The Dutch guy, I can't remember his name. We all called him Gouda, but that probably wasn't very nice. But he had a real name. And we sat down in this place and instantly a bunch of old Nepalese men sandwiched us into the table so we couldn't leave.

And I was like, okay, I see what's happening here. And then they shove a menu in my face. And it was like, Diet Coke. $14. And I was like, cool, cool, cool, tie, tight, tight. This all seems very reasonable. This is only up and up, yeah. And then all of a sudden a fountain starts running on the stage.

I'm saying fountain. A water fountain? Yeah, water fountain. But that's overstating what it was. It was like two sad, weak streams of water, like a drinking fountain in elementary school, like shooting across the catwalk from opposite directions. And a woman came out and started dancing also as a generous term. It was like she was trying to.

she just looked so sad, and I was like, yeah, no. I'm out. I can't do it. Bleak. And I just got up and I left. Yeah, that's terrible. And then after that, Gouda and I went to a bar. I left early and I wanted to go back to the hostel.

And I got lost walking home because have you ever been to Kathmandu? No, I have not. So, I mean, it's not the best part of Nepal, but it's a very interesting city. And it's like all these weird back streets and they all curve around and there's no logic whatsoever. And at night, there are no street lights at night. I don't think they even have street lights on the street. and it's impossible to navigate

if you don't know the place. So I was wandering for hours looking for my hostel and my phone didn't work. Of course. And then finally I was like I just had to ask for directions and there are all these shady people out at night

and finally a hash dealer gave me a ride home on his motorcycle. He was a really nice guy. Oh wow, that is a super anticlimactic strip club story and it also sounds like you're possibly really lucky that nothing bad happened to you roaming the dark streets of Catman at 2 o'clock in the morning as a white dude.

I know, it was. Hey, I'm gonna, maybe this, drug dealer who otherwise does illegal things for money and is a career criminal can take me back to the place where I'm staying and I'm completely relying on him for my personal safety. But isn't that great? Doesn't that give you like a little hope for humanity? It does. But this guy was like, oh, you need a lift? You have no problem. Yeah, like I might be a career criminal, but I'm not, I'm not inhuman. Sure, let me get you back to your hotel before something bad happened. All right. Anyway, since we inadvertently gave those clubs a boost here on the show,

we just wanted to make it official and give a big welcome to our new sponsor, Uncle Books, booby bungalow in Huntsville, Alabama. And if you're an ass man, visit their sister location, the booty bungalow right downtown in the heart of Huntsville. Kidding, of course, no idea if that actually exists. It's kind of a point. They should start it. I mean, that's killer branding. It is. Yeah, club for every part of the body. Quite a well-rounded empire. But seriously, Uncle Buck, we hope- Takes off his shirt one time. Uncle Buck, we hope your business is thriving and you're adhering to the local health codes. All right, as always, we've got some fun ones and the human trafficking regulations.

We got some fun ones, some doozies, and I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My close friend of 20 years and I have been through a lot together. Good times, bad times, everything. I'm like an aunt to her kids, and we've been on vacations together, celebrated holidays together, and so on. Then, earlier this year, she and her husband split up. Turns out, they were both using cocaine frequently, starting eight to ten

months ago. Many years ago, before they met, the husband and my friend were separately addicted to cocaine and had kicked it. She says she isn't doing drugs anymore, but she can't keep a story or excuse straight, has pinhole eyes, forgets her kids' appointments, and is up all hours of the night. Everyone in the family, including the youngest child, who's nine, has lied repeatedly about the most straightforward questions. The ex-husband doesn't show any signs of using drugs, but I can't be sure. My friend now lives with the drug dealer who started both of them on cocaine. The drug dealer is very well known to the police, and they follow me home whenever I visit her.

Yikes. Yeah, wow, that's bad news. You cannot go there anymore. You don't want to be anywhere near this. Even if you're totally innocent, you're still in cold, sober. From now on, y'all meet in a Chucky Cheese. Let her do bumps off the ski ball track. Why did you mind go to Chucky Cheese there?

I don't know. It just seems like I was like finding an innocent place to go to meet up. The most innocent place, yeah. That would be a funny place for two like 48-year-olds to meet up. Yeah, they serve you there. They used to. So the letter goes on. More recently, their kids have been getting into a lot of trouble.

The nine-year-old said he smoked pot with his other nine-year-old friend a few weeks ago. The oldest was in serious trouble with the police, lied to me about what was going on, lied about multiple other serious things, and drinks alcohol. The middle child who's in middle school is smoking, vaping, and drinking. Holy smokes. Smoking pot at nine. Drinking in early adolescence, this is terrible.

Goes without saying, addiction and brain damage are a lot more likely if you start this young from what I remember. This is super alarming. It's very sad. So this family is a total mess.

And I am frankly super angry at these parents for letting it get to this point. Gosh, it's amazing what addiction and neglect will do to kids and how quickly it can happen. I mean,

these were probably normal, decently well-adjusted kids until this mess. The kids go back and forth between the ex's houses. Child Protective Services in my state investigated and found that the kids

are not an immediate danger, so it won't or can't do anything. Oh, that is so frustrating. So frustrated. Yeah. We hear about this a decent amount. CPS can be very limited. I know a lot of people are like,

they're evil. It's not, they're just limited, right? They have to rely on judges and social workers and regulations. And I hate that these kids are literally addicted to substances in grade school or middle school, drinking, smoking, but they're not in immediate danger.

So CPS is like, well, nothing for us to do here. I mean, I don't even know if I believe that. I think there's probably just not enough evidence or something like that because how can you be like, yeah, they're drinking underage and they're nine and they're smoking pot, but, well, they're not going to get chopped into little pieces so we're just going to leave them in this situation. I don't understand.

They probably don't even know that the kids are using anything. They must have come to the house and looked around for signs of abuse. They check the refrigerator, is their food in the fridge? Like, is there anything dangerous in the house that could hurt them? No, okay, goodbye. But, yeah, the system has a lot of cracks. So the letter goes on. I'm now concerned about being associated with them,

in part because I'm on a lot of local charity boards. Well, smell you. Look at me. I'm a functional person with a reputation to uphold. Like I said, I would put a lot of distance between you and these people right now because they are radioactive for you. Do I cut ties with this family and avoid any guilt by association. Have I only been the fun aunt who doesn't mean anything when the going gets tough?

Do I dig in and be there for the kids right now? If so, should I stop going to my girlfriend's house? Signed, flexing my say-so, and debating whether to lay low while my friend gets carried away with the yay-yo. Oh, yikes. So yeah, total shit show, incredibly sad. Your friend and her ex, they're clearly wrestling with a serious addiction. They went through this before they met, they got clean, now they've relapsed, and it sounds much worse this time. And it's obvious. obviously just wreaking havoc on their family. I mean, look at the kids. It's all so tragic.

We've already answered a couple of your questions, but just to be clear, I'm not saying you can't be friends with this woman. If there's still a worthwhile friendship left, hard to tell. But I definitely wouldn't go to her house where she's living with her drug dealer. What a nightmare that must be.

And I would be very thoughtful about how much time you spend with her and where you spend it. Grabbing Starbucks during the day, fine. Hanging out at her house after 10 p.m. for hours. Hell no. even if you're not partaking in the nose candy yourself,

even if the police don't have anything on you, hanging out with people like this, it's going to create complications. And your reputation could absolutely take a hit. Pardon the pun. Right, but also spending time with people like this drives you insane, doesn't it? It's not great for your mental state.

Exactly. Yeah, kicking it at their house, listening to her dealer boyfriend's cocaine-fueled rants about putting all his ill-gotten gains into bored ape NFTs or whatever. It's digital gold, okay? Like, no, thank you. But he's a last person on earth to find out that they now are worthless. By the way, the very fact that she has shacked up with her dealer now is also very worrisome.

Very, yes, very worrisome because that means she's probably doing Coke all the time and has a steady supply in the house. Steady supply, probably for free. And that might be a big part of the reason they got together in the first place. Yeah, exactly. Disturbing. Or she actually enjoys his company, which I mean, even more. That's the most.

Some outcome, yeah. Also, the kids go back and forth between the exes houses, which presumably means the kids are now spending time at this dealer's house. Well, yeah, that's what it sounds like. You're right. I kind of forget about that. So she's sharing custody and she's literally bringing her kids to a drug dealer's den while the police are surveilling them from outside.

So great. What a cluster this is. You know, that probably warrants a new call to CPS right there. Because if that's true, then the kids are almost certainly in immediate danger. And I think telling CPS that three children are living in a Coke den, I mean, that should get their attention. At least make them want to come out and see what's going on. I think that's a good call. And I do think your friend is in desperate need of help.

She's obviously very confused right now. And given your long history, you might owe it to her to try to help. We talk about this a lot, the one earnest offer of help, one serious intervention. You owe that to a friend of 20 plus years whose kids you're basically an aunt to. and if this were my friend, I'd invite her over or take her out alone, ideally during the day when she's hopefully sober, and I would literally say, hey, I'm extremely worried about you, you're using again, it's obvious, you're avoiding my questions,

you're forgetting the kids, doctors appointments, parent teacher conferences, they're acting out in all these different ways, you're living with your freaking dealer, the police follow me home, you have a history of substance abuse, CPS came to investigate, I don't feel as close to you as I used to, and this cocaine addiction is now destroying our amazing friendship, and it's frankly destroying yours and your family's life. So here's the deal.

I will help you if you want to get help. I will take you to rehab. I will go with you to meetings. I will help you find a therapist. I'm here for you. But if you don't want to get help or you continue to lie to me, then I'm going to have to pull back because this is not the relationship that I want with you.

That would break my heart, but that's how bad this situation has become. And if she says, yes, you could live. literally save her life and maybe her family by extension. And if she's ready to get help, then she does deserve that chance. So have you only been the fun aunt who doesn't mean anything when the going gets tough? Maybe, maybe not. That's not entirely up to you. She's the one driving a wedge between you, or her addiction is. But if you want to be more than just the fun aunt, this is your chance. Help your friend clean up her act, encourage her to get her life back on track.

That's exactly the approach I would take as well. As for digging in, and being there for the kids, I understand that instinct, and I really commend you for it, but I am not totally clear on how much these kids can be helped by you, or entirely by you. And it's certainly not your job, as sad as that is. It's your friend's job. It's her ex-husband's job. So probably the best way to be there for them is to help her get back to being the mother she needs to be. Now, if you have a direct relationship with these kids, you know, if you have contact with them outside of their parents, like maybe through school or something, I'm not sure if you have kids of your own, then you can keep an eye on them and you can ask them how they're doing and you can

see if you need to intervene somehow. But if doing that is going to put you back into your friend's dangerous orbit, like going over to her house a bunch and getting dragged into her chaos, then yeah, I would be very, very thoughtful about how you proceed. Right. You do need to protect yourself here too. This is a really, really sad story. And sadly, it might spell the end of your friendship. I hope not, but it definitely could. So give it. one good shot, see if your friend is receptive, and if she's not, yeah, it's time to pull back and re-evaluate. A lot of people are going to be impacted by this chapter, namely her kids, and it really is a tragedy, but it is their tragedy. You have a very full and productive life from the

sound of it, and I would protect that as well. I know this sounds a little callous, like, what about, but there's kids, but at some point, there's only so much you can do. So we're wishing you, your friend, and her family all the best. And Gabe, man, I almost, I cannot wrap my head around parents this destructive, what they're doing to themselves and their kids, it's just insane. I mean, I suppose drug addiction, drugs are a hell of a drug, right? And then rationalization on top of it and convincing yourself that everything's fine. That's why I think the addiction's always just really in charge. But this hopefully is a wake-up call. Like, oh, I'm living in this normal life. Look, my friend is still coming over all the time. And if it's like,

oh, my friend now told me this is the end of the line, that would be the signal that she has to take responsibility for this and turn things around because it's only going to get, it really is only going to get worse from here. And I just, I hope our friend here can help them realize that and take action here. You know what costs way less than yayo and will give you a much longer high? The products and services that support this show. Instead of putting that paycheck up your nose, try supporting one of our sponsors. We'll be right back back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors, all the deals, discount codes, and

ways to support the show are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. And you can search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Or email, if you're so lazy, you can't find it, email me Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. I'll dig up the code for you. It's that important that you support those who support us. All right, back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up. Hey guys, I'm a 30-year-old woman and graduated with a bachelor's degree a couple years ago. I busted my butt in school to network and make connections. and ended up getting a job with an internationally acclaimed person in the community. Our work together was flawless.

Awesome. Love the hustle. Well done. But I ended up working for his partner more than him, and she was horrible to work with. I'm a very strong-willed woman, and long story short, she saw me as competition and nitpicked everything I did until I quit. This conflict ended up tarnishing the relationship that I built with the original guy, which hit me really hard. Oh, yeah, that sucks. That sounds like a tough situation. And Gabe, I'm making note of I'm a strong-willed woman. Not that that can't be a great quality, but it could also be something else. So let's come back to that.

About a year ago, I joined a new employer. She really wants me to work for her full time, but I'm starting to see similar issues in this new workplace, a lack of trust, finger pointing at me when things go wrong, and so on. This new boss has also been labeled hard to handle by many people. Interesting. So this could be a total coincidence, or it could be a bit of a pattern, and it's always good to notice when situations are echoing earlier ones. But again, let's see where this goes. I also have strong imposter syndrome, as my new boss has lived an extremely privileged life, while I grew up in the sticks and am the only person in my family to go to college. For example, she'll casually bring up month-long trips to Japan that her dad took her on when she was younger, like it was a super normal thing. Ah, okay. So she's kind of pushing your buttons in a few ways.

Yeah, she has a, it sounds like she has a bit of a pressure point around privilege, which, I mean, I can appreciate that. I grew up around that. I actually love how self-aware she is about that. We should circle back to this too. Yeah, that's nice. She's already parsing what's her stuff versus what her boss's stuff might be, but their dynamic is tricky.

It's hard to know exactly who is causing the friction here. I'm still dealing with PTSD for my previous job, so the mix is making my anxiety crazy. It's very hard to get an opportunity in my field, so I'm reluctant to give up the position, but I also don't want to start another passive-aggressive war and potentially compromise my reputation. I've worked with people for 12-plus years and have never had any issues. My peers and coworkers have validated that I'm not a problematic employee. I'm actually one of the hardest workers that they've seen. Well, that's really good data, so good on you for seeking it out.

It's clear that you're a hard worker. Just look at how you landed this job. But that doesn't mean you're not participating in these tough dynamics so that you don't have room to grow. So let's make room for both of those things here. I now have a potential job opportunity available, but that would mean moving to the other side of the country and creating a long-distance relationship and the cost of living there is outrageous. Should I just stick with this job and deal with all of the icks? Or should I move on to the next thing? How do I stop letting our social differences affect my relationship with my boss?

Am I just destined to work for crappy bosses? How do I avoid working for people like this in the future? Signed at a loss about this burdensome boss. Right. Well, this is a very interesting situation. And I understand why it's confusing. So first off, working for a difficult boss is never easy. And it's not always your fault.

And personalities like these can bring out some tough responses in us, even when we're good employees, even when we're pretty low drama. So, yeah, I'm sorry you found yourself working. for not one, but two difficult people. But in another way, I'm kind of happy you did, because I think these experiences can teach you a lot about yourself and about how you respond to difficult people and also about what kind of career and workplace you do want, which that's what a lot of your 20s are about. So let's start by talking about whether this is a coincidence or a pattern. Like I said, it's totally possible that you ended up with two difficult bosses. It happens. But the fact that it's

happened twice. That does seem meaningful to me. Now, noticing a pattern doesn't necessarily mean this is all your fault or that you've done something wrong. This isn't about blaming you or anything. It's just about appreciating how these situations develop. Also, there could be a few explanations for this pattern. Maybe you've gravitated towards a field where difficult personalities dominated. When I was in law, my friends were all investment bankers. They worked with a lot more jerks than you might run into if you worked as a literally anything else. So you were in consulting, Gabe, like you know that sometimes, wow, there's a lot of type A people in this office and the boss is like, I literally only hire people who are so anal that no one else can stand them. That's what I'm looking for.

That's right. Specific jobs have tough bosses or, and this is the one I'd pay the most attention to, maybe you've responded to these difficult bosses in a way that made them even more difficult or created a tough dynamic. That's also very common. I also have to say I find it interesting that the two difficult bosses she's had are women. Again, could be a total coincidence, but... Yeah, I mean, look, she only has two data points here, just like we do, so it's a small sample. Yeah, totally fair. But the one boss she got along with really well was a man. And when her relationship with his partner went south, she said that it hit her really hard. So I think that's interesting, too. It is. Yeah, I think you're right. And when she said that she's a strong-willed woman,

I kind of poked a little fun at her for that. I'm just thinking about how that quality might intersect with other potentially strong-willed women. So I could see that being a bit of a powder keg in an office, depending on the personalities involved. Also, I'm very curious to know what strong-willed actually means, right? Like, does it mean that you are super hardworking and driven and confident about what you want,

or does it mean, you know, a little domineering, a little inflexible, maybe kind of prickly sometimes? could go either way. Right. And hey, maybe it's both, right? All leadership qualities have a sort of shadow side where it's a virtue in one way,

but it can be an Achilles heel in another. And I do think these are all meaningful pieces of information, though. And so these are my first couple of questions for you, ones I would really sit with and explore. Don't answer them while we're asking them on the show, just, you know,

maybe have a thought over this. First off, have I gravitated to difficult bosses in some way? Or have I made them more difficult in the way that I relate to them. Next, do I engage with men and women differently? Is there something about women that tends to lead to more conflict?

And if so, is this strong-willed quality playing a role in these interactions? And if so, how? I would really take some time to replay some of the moments where you experienced conflict or friction or just a general anxiety with these bosses and really break down those interactions.

For example, what did they say? do that set you off. Where did it hit a nerve or where did it make you kind of uneasy? And then how did you respond both in the moment and then later on down the line? What are these people activating in you? And what are you in turn maybe activating in them? For example, and I'm just going to run with the story you shared to illustrate the point. If your boss gives you feedback on a project and then you kind of bristle and go, well, actually, I think we should do it this way. And then they note you to death because they want things a very specific way. And then, of course, the next time you guys interact, you're kind of icy. Maybe you're a little aloof because you're annoyed that you

got 74 points of feedback. But then you really still have a good relationship with her business partner, and then she perceives you as competition, and then you pull away more because you're defending yourself or you've turned against her, and then she treats you even worse as a result. Dot, dot, dot, now it's a toxic workplace and you're miserable and you can see how this subtle dance between an employee and a boss can really, it can degrade a relationship. This is the math of a dynamic. And it's so useful to parse this stuff because even when the other person is really a top shelf a hole or a power hungry competitive witch or whatever, there are always two people in a relationship. And we're always contributing to things in our own way, usually unconsciously, even if we're not the primary

aggressors. Yeah, nice. Great advice, Jordan. So to answer your question, no, you're not destined to work with crappy bosses forever. But the best way to break that sense of destiny, the feeling that these situations are just going to keep repeating themselves, is to do this kind of work and rewrite this stuff in the way that Jordan is encouraging you to do. The other piece of this that is also partly yours is the stuff around privilege.

Yes. Okay. I'm glad you're coming back to that. I think that's a really important element as well. So here's this boss. She's banging on about her amazing summers in Kyoto or whatever, her luxurious upbringing. She's kind of oblivious to how she comes across, I think. And then there's our friend here who grew up in a very different environment.

She's the first in her family to go to college. And she's listening to all of that. And she's going, oh, cool, must have been nice. You know, like, also, does this mean I don't belong here? Like, does this mean I don't deserve this? I find the imposter syndrome conclusion super interesting because there's got to be a few filters in her to make her think like, oh, maybe I'm a fraud. I mean, I get it. Someone's like, oh, you don't have a collection of silk kimonos from Imperial Japan. Okay. Awkward. Sure. It could be a little bit much of times, I'm sure. It's a very interesting question. Whose fault, quote unquote, fault is it that she has that feeling? Is it her boss's fault for being tone deaf and unselfaware and kind of braggy? Or is it our friend's fault for being. sensitive to this difference and for having this chip on her shoulder and believing that she doesn't belong if she didn't have the same experiences as this person. The answer I think is it's

both of their faults, but fault isn't really the right word because I don't think any of this is intentional or even malicious. This is just what happens when two very different human beings get together and their stuff intersects in all of these interesting ways. So about this privilege thing, let's just appreciate that you do have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder, which is very normal. And in a way, it's born from the amazing fact that you were the first in your family to achieve at this level. And you worked really hard to get here. Which, by the way, Gabe, that is great evidence that she is not an imposter. I think that's quite the opposite, right? She worked so hard to get where she is without the advantages that that boss may have had. That is exactly right. And that would be a wonderful thing

to remind herself when the imposter syndrome starts to kick in that somebody else's advantages don't actually have any bearing on her value or her right to be where she is. I know imposterism is a complex thing. It can come from a lot of different places, but that is a really great start. But anyway, just to say, this pressure point around privilege, that is yours to work through. Yes, your boss is being kind of obtuse. She's maybe not being very thoughtful when she talks about Summers in Japan with daddy. But like Jordan said a moment ago, the way you hear that, the way you process that is being informed by your life experiences, your feelings, and your values, and that's why it ends up hurting the way it does sometimes, which might be one more way that you're bringing something

to these tricky dynamics with these bosses. It's fascinating, isn't it? So much goes into these interactions, we often don't even realize it. Bottom line, I would explore all this stuff for a while, a month at least, maybe even a few months before you decide whether to jump ship here. Maybe the answer is to find a new job with a better boss, and if so, more power to you, These bad bosses will just be great learning experiences. Hey, that's fair. But I do think there's an opportunity to learn and grow here, and these annoying bosses are helping you do that in their own way.

Slash, they're also teaching you how to spot the signs of a crappy boss from the jump, which is also a great skill for next time. I would also encourage you to check out the articles and deep dives Gabe and I did on imposter syndrome and how to stop comparing yourself to other people. Those are going to be money for you right now. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. And look, you're a real asset and a very impressive person. And yes, that might rub certain people the wrong way sometimes, and that's their stuff.

But it also doesn't mean you don't have some room to grow in the way that you manage people like that. So hang in there. Whether you stick around or you move on, this period's going to be a really great education for you. And you'll take these insights into the rest of your career. Good luck. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines.

That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your mother-in-law is being catfished by an AI text bot pretending to be a famous actor. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday atjordanharbinger.com. We're here to help, and we keep every email anonymous.

Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 41 years old, and I've been estranged from my older sister and her family for about 15 years. This was her choice and a total mystery to my side of the family.

As far as I know, there was no trauma or inciting incident for this. It's possible that something horrific happened when I was too little to know, but I doubt it. We had a pretty typical,

privileged suburban childhood. Interesting. Yeah, you never know, right? Something bad could have happened and you have no idea because she won't talk about it. Although, why would that mean she would need to cut you off?

That's unclear. Or just nothing happened and she's kind of a kook. Then one day she moved to Vermont with her husband, who's honestly kind of a weirdo. There you go. Started having babies, six of them, in nine years, and told us that she didn't want us influencing her children.

Okay. Well, now I'm getting kook vibes here. I'm getting culty kook vibes. Moving to Vermont doesn't help that. Yeah, I didn't mean to feed the stereotype. But moving to Vermont, look, I hear it's absolutely lovely, it's peaceful. The fall foliage, the maple syrup, next level. But isn't Vermont also the state you move to

when you want to live off the grid and grow your own apples or whatever, possibly with a proto cult that you've joined with your husband who's a weirdo? I always forget it's either Vermont or New Hampshire. Right, New Hampshire. That's where Walter White went at the end of Breaking Bad, right? For good reason.

Yeah, I mean, it has that reputation. The license plate of New Hampshire is live, free, or die, which I think they included in Breaking Bad. So that kind of tells you everything you need to know. What's Vermont's license plate? Do you know? I have no, let me look it up right now. Googling, Googling.

a green mountain state. Okay, so that's not as funny. I was hoping it was like, don't tread on me and my 13 children or stay out of my underground bunker or something, something that would apply directly to this letter. Can you imagine if that was actually a license plate? Live uninfluenced or die from basic human contact.

Yeah, there's a tagline. So, all right, let's see what this goes. I've tried to casually keep in touch over the years, but she made it clear that she didn't want any communication. This was very confusing and painful, especially since they're the only grandchildren in the family. But we backed off, and I decided that once the kids were adults, I would try to get in touch in case they were curious about their family

or could use some different adults in their lives. My oldest nephews are now in their early 20s, and I've been attempting to look them up. I don't use any social media, and I haven't had any luck finding them online. A buddy of mine suggested trying Venmo, as people tend to use their real names there, and she was right. I found the two oldest kids. Ooh.

Interesting. That's a good one. I never thought of that. I am definitely adding that to my black bag of dark Jordan tricks, right? Like, oh, they vanished. Oh, yeah. Well, do they get money online? Try this app that people don't think about when they put their personal information into it.

But now I'm not sure how to proceed. If it were Facebook or Twitter, it wouldn't be unheard of to send a message out of the blue. My friend suggested sending them a few cents along with a private message, but that seems weird and potentially invasive. It's also kind of hilarious. Nothing says, I want to get back into your life like a payment for 35 cents followed by 17 burrito emojis. The first three kids definitely know about me and my family because before contact was lost, my sister had my picture on the fridge and talked about me.

That's an interesting detail. So she doesn't have anything against our friend. There's something else happened here. I don't understand it. Letter goes on. I have a dummy Facebook account for lurking purposes, so conceivably they could contact me if they wanted, but I have no idea what their mother told them about why she cut off the entire family. In a way, I have nothing to lose if they don't respond, but I just feel like this is such an awkward way to introduce myself. I've considered a private detective, but that seems too extreme. What do you think? Do you have any other ideas? Is Venmo really the appropriate place to spring long-lost relatives on a kid? Signed, a nonchalant aunt, seeking a daintantant.

without trying to haunt, or flaunt the fact that she'd be a killer confidant. Oh, God, all right, Biggie Smalls. Take it easy. This is Feedback Friday and a rap battle. Stop hating on my flow, bro. Right on, Gabe. There's vomit on your sweater already.

Mom's vegan tofu, cauliflower, noodle spaghetti. So, interesting question. That was great. What can I say? You inspire me. So, interesting question. First of all, I think it's totally fair game to reach out and see if you're older nephews, the ones in their 20s,

if they're open to talking. I agree. It might be nice for them to know their family, to have some other adults in their life. Their mom might not appreciate it, but they're grown up now. And since you didn't do anything to her, I think reaching out to them by any method is cool, honestly.

But yeah, Venmo, not exactly the ideal place to rekindle a broken relationship. But if it's all you have, go for it. You have nothing to lose, except for, you know, one-tenth of a game of ski ball you could play with your coke-addled friend of Chuckie cheese.

Wow. What a callback. Top shelf. Loved it. Chef's kiss. The only challenge I see here is that Venmo is a character limit. I think it's probably 300 characters because, you know, it's for payments, not for family reunions.

So it might be hard to articulate who you are and why you're reaching out and what you're hoping to achieve. Also, I'm not sure if they can even reply. I doubt they can. So you'd have to include contact info in the message, which they might maybe Venmo blocks that or doesn't allow that. I'm not even sure. Either way, that's also going to take up available characters.

Yeah, plus don't forget, you have to leave room for those burrito emoji. You were about to say that, weren't you? Yeah, I was. I was going to lean into the burrito emojis. You cannot. After the burritos, that's like 270 characters. You're going to have to be really a fissioneer. And if you can't share a meaningful letter, they might get your 10 cents and be like,

okay, I'm not sure how to respond to this. Okay, so let's imagine this. You have 300 characters. What would she actually say? I think it would be something like, hey, it's your aunt Eileen or whatever. Sorry to message you here, but it's the only way I have to reach you. You can even leave that out, actually, because you don't need that. I know we haven't talked in a long time.

I would love to hear how you're doing. I would love to be in touch. Miss you, love you. Here's my number. Sorry, you live in an underground bunker in Vermont. Hope it's not a cult situation. That's got to be about 300 characters, and I think that pretty much covers the basics. Honestly, I'm not hating the Venmo idea.

It's creative for sure. They'll get it. It's kind of funny. It's kind of funny. It is funny. And if it works, you'll have a good story to tell. I found my estranged nephews on the app where you, you know, pay your friends for your share of the strippers and cocaine at the bachelor party. I mean, pretty much.

Right. It's on the same app where you pay the boyfriend of the train wreck from question one with the snowman emoji. Something poetic about that. I don't know what. It just is. I'm sure your nephews would be lucky to have you in their lives. And if their mom is really that nutty and there's no good reason she cut you off. then yeah, you all deserve to have a relationship.

Just be prepared for any number of responses. Positive engagement, great. Radio silence, a crazy letter from your sister yelling at you for trying to influence her kids via the world's easiest payment platform, trademark, who knows what'll happen. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. And if it works, it'll be awesome. And good luck.

Gabe, I find it interesting that again, there's this theme here of how can I be there for the kids of a questionable parent or two. Right. it's so tough. The lines are confusing. This is different from question one because these nephews are adults now so they can choose to reach out or they can choose to accept her invitation to talk on their own. But staying close to children who are growing up in a dodgy environment or a straight up dangerous

environment, that's really commendable. But of course it's also sad because you have to accept the limits of your influence in another family's drama. All these kids in both stories are so lucky to have another adult looking out for them. But the reality is there's only so much you can do for other people. And that's important to remember, too. You know, Gabe, when they said the husband's a weirdo, there were no other details there, but I'm just getting

sister married a guy is a little bit weird, and then he became culty with whatever religious thing and then started having kids, and then his parents were probably like, they're into that. And it's like, oh, you can't associate with people aren't going to be into that. And sisters like, well, my parents and family aren't into that. And they're like, oh, it's going to be

bad for them if they're not also part of our weird super religious movement or whatever. Because why else would you be like, it's better for my kids to grow up with only one set of grandparents and never see their aunts and uncles on mom's side? That just screams cult, whether it's an organized religion or not. And it might not even be religious.

It might just be we want to live on our own terms and we don't want other people meddling in our business. But it would explain the timeline also because she said she had her photo up on the fridge for a few years. So there was like a period of time where she did want to be close to her family, the only thing that changed is that she married this guy. So I think you're right.

This guy's probably playing a huge role in her life in all of this. Scary. I would love to hear if the nephews actually reach out. I'm going to go ahead and guess homeschooled, and they're either super enrolled in whatever crazy, kooky ideas they got from their dad and mom now, or maybe the one that responds is like, yeah, I don't talk to my parents anymore

because they raised us in homeschooling. school and used to beat us with belts when we didn't memorize verses from the Old Testament or whatever. I mean, I'm just, you know, you never know what this kind of stuff. So I'm so curious right now. You know, it's a great way to win over your estranged family members, Gabriel. The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are at Jordan

Harbinger.com slash deals. And you can search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. Or email, if you're so lazy, you can't find it, email me Jordan at Jordan Harbinger.com. I'll dig up the code for you. It's that important that you support those who support us. All right, back to Feedback Friday. What's next? Hey, Jordan, Gabe.

My wife and I are good at conversing with strangers and close friends, but we find it challenging to talk to people we've only met a few times and remember details about their lives. We've tried note-taking, but that's not always practical, especially during unexpected encounters like running into a fellow parent at the grocery store. How can we remember or tactfully re-ask questions about things we should already know, like their names or whether they have children, stuff like that? How do you handle those situations? Signed, finding our feet as we try to remember these deeds.

Good question. And way to lighten the mood a little, Gabe. I was worried this was going to be another ultra-heavy feedback Friday banger like, oh, now my kids have been kidnapped and taken to Saudi Arabia. How do I get them back? That's what I was waiting for on this one. I just wanted a little pallet cleanser. How do I chat with people I don't care about it, Trader Joe's?

I thought you would need something like that. I do need it. Let's put all this estranged family stuff and coked up friends' business on ice and talk about how to interact with people you met two and a half times in the drop-off line at school when you're in the frozen food aisle of an Albertsons. Nice change of pace.

Exactly. So candidly, I struggle slash used to struggle with this exact same thing myself. and I've had to develop some techniques to not seem like a total a-hole when I interact with people that I only kind of sort of know. So first off, the more you own this

and don't try to wiggle out of it, in my opinion, the better. So I'll often say something like, hey, I'm so sorry, I've got dad brain. I think you've told me before, but you have kids too, right? What are the names again? How old are they?

Okay, I meant to remember that last time, but it just went in one ear and out the other because I was probably juggling a grocery order somewhere in my brain at the same time. That usually goes over really well, everyone can understand that explanation outside of the most self-important narcissists. But then later, I add a task to my to-doist app

usually using Siri. And I'll just say like, hey, remember to write down Jack and Jill's names in my phone. And that's it. So then I go into my phone later. I add their jobs, their kids' names, whatever I need to remember. Because trying to remember something an hour

or two later after I get home, that's a lot easier than trying to remember it in a month in the moment. when I see them again. And To Doist reminds me to remember and then write it down. So beyond that, my advice is don't try to pretend,

don't be embarrassed to apologize and ask for information again. It's really not that big of a deal. If you happen to be with your significant other or somebody else, you can say, hey, I forgot those people's names. And then she can walk up and introduce herself

and they'll be like, oh, hi, I'm Bob. Yeah, I've already met your husband. You're like, oh yeah, that's right, that's Bob. That's a little trick. It doesn't always work if you don't have anybody else near you. I think people mind way more when you pretend like you remember things about them,

or when you feign familiarity, then when you just come right out and go, hey, I'm sorry for being spacey. You remind me, you're married to Paul, right? And your kids are Jack and Lacey, and you guys live where again? It's just not a big deal. There are also exercises to remember lots of things about people.

If you're interested, you can Google stuff like the Memory Palace. It's very Dale Carnegie. In fact, I learned it at one of those courses, but I don't use it because, one, I've got a pretty good memory now. If I actually listen, that's the problem. And if I have a conversation with the person, if I'm not just phoning it in mentally, I tend to remember random details. And again, they're in my phone. So I also encourage you to really listen when people talk, if you can,

and care about what they say, because that's going to make this whole thing a lot easier. The memory stuff falls into place when you're actually present. And if you don't care, because you really don't click with these folks, okay, that's fine. But if you're not clicking with them because you're not putting in some effort, and that's why you can't be bothered to remember anything, that's a different problem. And that's something to think about. But yeah, just for the practical issue

of remembering details with people you don't know super well, a little extra legwork, a little structure, a little note-taking tool, that'll do it. All right, Gabe, what fresh horror do you have for us now? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 46-year-old woman, and I met my husband 20 years ago. We dated for five years, and it was wonderful.

But the marriage was difficult from the jump. He lost his job during our short engagement and basically never got another one. I carried 100% of the financial load while he worked, quote unquote, as an artist. We tried for children, but I was diagnosed as baron. We tried all the medical interventions and a failed adoption before finally giving up.

We loved each other deeply, so we weathered these storms together as best we could. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. That's a lot to go through. Also, I didn't know Barron was a diagnosis. It sounds so cold and cruel to phrase things that way. I mean, I'm sure the doctor didn't use that word. I think she's using that way. Okay, that makes sense. It just sounds so medieval. It's like, I diagnose the a spinster. You shall never marry. But my husband was undiagnosed bipolar and had episodes of deep depression and physical and verbal violence towards me and others. When the pandemic hit, I lost two jobs in a row, and he mentally started to fall apart. I tried to get him help, but he wouldn't go,

and he got more and more violent. We were about to starve, so I took what was supposed to be a temporary job across the country. Wow, so this is a lot. This is a lot. It's sad they had five great years, and then this guy just completely falls apart and becomes a bit of a monster from the sound of it. I wonder how that happens. I'm guessing he had some troubles from the very beginning, but it sounds like some combination of the pandemic and financial instability just activated those issues. Right, or maybe he hid his dysfunction really well until they were married. Either way, this guy sounds incredibly difficult and chaotic. And it's hurtful in many ways. Anyway, carry on. I really needed that break and finally got a little peace for myself and I met someone.

Got a little piece for yourself, did you? Nicely done. She got two kinds of peace from the sound of a piece of mind and a piece of... Yeah, we get it. We get it. letter goes on a truly wonderful man who took me under his wing and took care of me and i quickly fell deeply in love wow okay so after how your last husband treated you i can see why that would mean a lot I told my husband, and we separated and planned a divorce. My new love was patient while I disentangled my old life and transitioned to my new one, which has taken about a year with many ups and downs. Then, a month ago, right when things felt like they were settling down, my ex committed suicide. Oh, geez, that's really sad.

Okay, so he was in a lot of pain. This has left me in deep grief, guilt, and on the business end of death as the next of kin. You can't imagine the pain of losing him this way. Even though I wasn't in love with him anymore and wasn't willing to give up this wonderful partner, I never wanted to hurt him. I truly loved him every day since the moment we met. Oh, man, I hear you. Yeah, there was still a lot of love there and a lot of history.

And having a loved one commits suicide. It's very painful. It's super sad. And your grief makes a lot of sense. The guilt piece I'm less sure about. But let's come back to that. Now it feels like my life is doomed. My partner still takes care of me and we're just being each other's person, but it's less romantic now.

Nothing feels fun or light like it used to, and we're still too new for things to feel this exhausting. We don't fight or have any drama, but I'm losing the spark and I'm not very fun to be around right now. How do I manage all this and not lose this beautiful man? Can this love be saved in the face of all this pain? signed grieving the past and doing what's asked without driving my new love away while I'm downcast. Wow, okay, this is quite a story, and you're asking some great questions. So to pick up where I left off a moment ago, your grief is entirely appropriate. And the fact that you're going through something this heavy, of course that's playing out in your

new relationship. You've just lost somebody important to you. You're allowed to be sad. You're allowed to be angry, you're allowed to not feel as fun as you used to. I think anyone who's lost somebody important, especially to suicide, would feel like they're not very fun to be around for a while. Of course. So I find myself wanting to tell you to make some space for that and to not apologize for those feelings too much or mute them out of concern that you're going to drive your new partner away. I get why it's a concern. I really do. But I wonder if buried in that concern is a fear that if you're not constantly romantic, if you're not always fun and bubbly,

if you go through something intense like this, then your partner's not going to want to be with you anymore. When in fact, the opposite is likely true. If this new partner is really your person, as you say, then he's going to be there for you through the ups and downs, and he's not going to need you to only be one version of yourself. Which it sounds like that's exactly what he's doing, right?

He's still there taking care of her, they're being each other's person, they don't fight, there's no drama. Even if things are heavy right now, That all sounds really peaceful. That all sounds very sweet to me. That's what makes me think she might have some ideas around what makes her lovable or interesting to somebody. And those are worth exploring.

Yes. And seeing, frankly, if they're accurate. Now, about the guilt thing that you feel, I find that emotion meaningful. And again, it makes sense. You left him. He spiraled out. Sadly, he didn't feel life was worth living anymore. So I get while you're going, man, I wish I could have saved him.

I wish I'd done more. But here's the thing. your husband struggled in a number of ways. He couldn't hold down a job. He didn't really look for another one. He was trying to be an artist. Sounds like he didn't really give that a real go. Things got so bad you guys were about to literally starve, okay?

Most importantly, he was bipolar. You tried to get him help. He then refused to go, and he was physically and emotionally abusive to you. All of that, especially his mental health and behavior. That was his responsibility. That was not yours. If he had gotten treatment for his mood stuff, his anger, his behavior, he probably could have handled his life a lot better.

He could have stuck with his commitments. He could have been stable enough to maybe work and get better. And whatever drove him to abuse you, he could have brought that into therapy. He could have found resources to work through those things, but he didn't do any of that. And yes, you met someone else, which I'm sure was very hard for him,

but that didn't just happen in a vacuum. Things were bad. They were really bad. And it's not like you were having an affair and carrying on behind his back for a super long time. You were essentially separated after he neglected himself

and abused you and you happened to meet somebody who was a much better fit and healthier. So when you say you feel guilty, okay, that's a very normal response. But I also don't think it's completely warranted because it's really minimizing your ex's responsibility in this whole situation.

Which is kind of her pattern, right? while her ex tried to be an artist, she carried 100% of the financial load. When they were about to starve, she moved across the country and took a temp job. This is a woman who assumes a lot of responsibility. She springs into action when there's a crisis. She probably takes on other people's burdens quite easily. I admire her work ethic. I admire her determination.

They are incredibly impressive. But there's also an element here of, I'm going to shoulder the burden for everyone else. I'm the one who needs to step up. and if we fail, it's on me. So to your point, Jordan, she might still be doing a version of that even now after her ex has died, except because there's nothing really to do now,

she's experiencing it as guilt that she didn't do more back then. That's exactly right. And I'm sure that speaks to her very big heart and her capability. But yeah, I'm with you. It also speaks to an overactive sense of responsibility specifically for people

who might not always be taken care of themselves the way they should. And that's the other thing that I think she needs to look at here. So how do you manage all this and not lose this great guy you're with now? Well, I think you let yourself move through this difficult chapter, which will get easier with time, I promise you, and not try to suppress or quarantine these feelings too much to spare him. I would also be open with your partner about how you're feeling and what you're worried about now. You could literally tell him, you know, look, I'm sorry that I'm kind of a bummer right now. I, I would also be open with your partner. I I'm feeling sad. I feel guilty. I feel stressed out. I know I'm not as playful as I usually am.

I'm actually kind of worried about what that might be doing to our relationship, you know, to our spark. I obviously, I have to go through this, but I also don't want to drive you away somehow. So yeah, I just want to talk to you about that. I mean, that's a wonderful conversation to have with a partner. Just come right out and tell them what you're concerned about. Bringing it up, just bringing it up with him might bring you guys closer together. And in that conversation, I would ask him, how are you feeling? What's it like for you while I go through this? Is it okay if I need some room to grieve

and I'm not super fun and bubbly 24-7? Is it okay if I get back to the person I was? Given what you have told us about this guy, I think that conversation is going to go really well. Yeah, I agree. And asking for that space to go through this, that would also be a great way for her to rewrite that impulse towards guilt. Yes, because she's putting herself first a little bit, right?

She's not taking out other people's stuff unnecessarily. Yeah, she's not going, oh, I'm sorry, I'm no fun, you're probably sick of me. I'm going to do my best to choke this down and hide it so that I can keep you around. She's going to be saying, hey, I'm sorry, I'm no fun, but I love you, and I really appreciate you giving me room to go through this and helping me heal. That would be a great shift. Also, that level of vulnerability, that communication, that's also how you keep the spark alive. Yes, I was going to say her idea of keeping the spark alive as being fun and bubbly all the time. And I get it.

That's obviously important. That's fun. but this is life, this is real-ish. Difficult stuff happens at some point or another. And like I said, if this guy is really for her, he'll be there for her through this. And if she's going to drive him away, it's not going to be because she's sad

that her ex committed suicide. It's going to be because she tries to hide all of these parts of herself from him, which I, you know, you're right, that's probably a pattern too, like, oh, there's no room for my emotions in the relationship. My husband is depressed and bipolar, and I can't tell him that,

I'm upset because he's in hell right now. This is probably a pattern she's had for years. Could not agree more. So, yes, to answer your question, this love can be saved in the face of all this pain. That's literally what love is. That's how it works. That's what it does.

But I would go a step further and say, I am not sure that this love needs to be saved. You've given us no indication that your partner is about to bounce because you're mourning right now. He doesn't sound like that kind of guy. So I would invite you to consider if you might be underestimating how much he's there for you right now, all these parts of you, and maybe overestimating how much of his love for you depends on you being easy and fun and super low maintenance all the time.

Which it's interesting, that might be the root of the impulse to take on so much responsibility and the impulse to feel guilty. Because she might feel like she needs to do a lot of work to, I don't know, earn people's love or keep their loyalty. and I'm guessing that tendency also goes back a long way. So let yourself go through this. I'm so sorry that your ex-husband got to this point. I'm so sorry that you're hurting. But please remember that he was on his own journey and he was ultimately responsible for his life,

just like you are responsible for yours. Sending you a big hug from California, your new guy too, he sounds like a good one. We're wishing you both all the best. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in and everybody who listened. Thank you so much.

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