The Jordan Harbinger Show - 936: Family Can't Know About Sister's OnlyFans Show | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

The accidental discovery of your sister's OnlyFans show has you worried it's only a matter of time before the family finds out. Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: The accidental discovery of your sister's OnlyFans show has you worried it's only a matter of time before the family finds out. What can you do to keep this from erupting into a full-blown scandal? When it threatens someone's employment, how can a false report to the understaffed, overwhelmed, and overworked Department of Child Services be contested? [Thanks to attorney Corbin Payne for helping us with another sticky situation!] How can you gracefully leave a new job that makes you miserable without jeopardizing relationships with the friendly insiders who supported your hiring? How can you tell if a ghostwriter — who offers to pen the story of your life for a flat, up-front fee — is legitimate? How do you have the birds-and-the-bees talk with your kids when the message you want to convey differs from the "abstinence only" message their other parent favors? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/936 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ho, ho, ho. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your ho-ho host, Jordan Harbinger. It was cheesy. I'm going to admit it. But you know what the thing is? The dumber the joke on this show, the more feedback I get about it. The more positive feedback I should be clear. I, for one, loved it. I thought that was awesome. Great way to open the show this week. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, a guy who's literally wearing a t-shirt today that says, Pink Freud, the dark side of your mom. I am the original Ho-ho-ho. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Sign. would be so proud. This is his legacy. This is it. He lives on in the t-shirts and the memes. I'm going to resist calling you my co-ho-ho host because it doesn't quite have the same ring to it. And by the way, I'm not even making fun of you for that shirt, Gabe. It's quite clever. I kind of wish I had

that shirt. I know. It's amazing. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. Former jihadis, undercover economic hitmen, gold smugglers, Russian spies, astronauts, CEOs, and rocket scientists. This week, we did an out-of-the-loop episode about the Houthis in Yemen. If you don't know what's going on with the missiles hitting the transport ships and the shipping lanes and the Yemen Civil War and the Saudi Arabia thing, this episode is for you. We definitely

bring you back into the loop on that. This stuff isn't going away anytime soon. In fact, Looks like the U.S. might even now be getting involved over there. I guess we'll see. We also had Ben McIntyre, something we never do on this podcast. I usually don't do episodes like this at all, but this was just purely history. We explored a Nazi prison castle that held POWs in World War II and had all kinds of insane escape attempts from tunnels to hang gliders and guys making Nazi uniforms out of soap bars so they could pose as the guards and escape. Really interesting stuff if you're into history. And just a bit off of our usual beat. On Friday as though we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play increasingly

absurd sound bites, and mercilessly roast Gabe for his apparel choices, except for today. Because again, objectively killing it with the Freud gear. Before we dive in, I've been getting some emails from people recently asking about the difference between Iranian and Persian. I guess because they're probably hearing a lot of Persian and Iranian people say, hey, we're not the same as the theocrats over there in Ayatollah lands. So basically, most people agree that Persian relates to a particular ethnicity and culture, and Iranian is a claim to a certain nationality slash country, the country of Iran. So the reason this matters from what I can tell is that everything you've heard about Iran, especially from the U.S. government of the media, it's largely negative, right?

A lot of Persian people, they don't want to be associated with that. They are not their government. And in some cases, it was, and obviously still is, dangerous to be associated with the country of Iran, either because the country you live in now doesn't like Iran or because the government of Iran doesn't like you, even though you're Iranian and you don't live in Iran. And they try to kill you, a la the hit squad episode we did a few weeks ago. So a lot of Iranians prefer to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from the current regime and the immensely poor reaction of their fellow citizens, usually in the West or the U.S., whatever. It's also worth noting that being Persian isn't limited to being Iranian. Actually, it took me a minute to sort of realize this.

This is where things get kind of murky, but my understanding is that part of the concept of Persian is also the culture and language rather than your family being from the exact borders of Iran. It's probably a lot like being Jewish in many ways, Gabriel, where you can be Persian, even if you were born in Brooklyn, or you can be Persian, even if your family's from Azerbaijan or something like that, and they were merchants and they ended up being headquartered there for three generations. You're still Persian, but you're also Azeri.

In fact, we do have some friends of friends whose parents are Azeri in country of origin or Azerbaijani in country of origin, but still consider themselves Persian. They speak Farsi. They come from a Christian background, I think, which adds another layer because you don't have to be Muslim to be Persian. Also, the word Persian refers to the language. Farsi is just Persian in the Persian language. That's how you say Persian.

So that can be confusing, but it shouldn't be. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that. I think it's interesting, and also because it's an important distinction, especially given how many Iranians or Persians are spread across the world and given all the awful things done by the current Iranian regime, which is essentially. separate thing from this very rich and beautiful culture whose food I tend to enjoy, at least on a weekly basis. Is that the more you know soundbite?

Yes, it is. Yeah, good memory, man. I wonder how many people are like, I don't know why he just played that. Anyone over 40 knows that that is. 90s kids. Anyway, fun ones, doozies, let's dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

I'm about to propose to my girlfriend, and she was recently asking about my older sister, who is 33. She and I don't talk because we live on opposite. at coasts, and the time difference and her routine don't allow for a lot of overlap in free time. She's been out there for more than a decade and never comes home to visit. I gave my girlfriend a copy of my sister's book of poetry under a pen name, and it took all of five minutes for her to find my sister's other names and internet accounts, including an only fans account. Okay, I know that's like two sound bites within two minutes, but I'm pretty sure that one was warranted. It was warranted,

but we're pushing the soundbite limit, I think. I think so. I'm done for minute. I was mortified. I knew my sister was into internet culture, but I had no idea that she did OnlyFans. My girlfriend described her as basically an anime character with giant boobs and a huge butt. Clearly, plastic surgery. I think I'm starting to understand why she never comes home to visit. Not that there's anything wrong if this is how she wants to look. It's her choice, but I'm guessing she's trying to hide all this from you guys, including her appearance, because it's kind of hard to hide giant boobs and a massive butt and just be like, oh, I gained a little bit away. What? What's happening?

I'm baffled by why she would even think to do this. We're from a wealthy family, and she gets all of her expenses paid for by my dad, rent, car, credit card, even a monthly allowance. So clearly it's not just about the money. Attention, validation from strangers on the internet would be the obvious reasons, but maybe the money's good too. Frankly, there's something to be said for a sense of independence gained by not having to totally rely on dad, even if she still does cash as checks. Kind of having it both ways there, but I hear you. Yeah, you live life on your own terms or something. I don't know. He goes on. If this gets out, I already know it's going to cause massive drama. My soon-to-be wife's family are immigrants with

traditional values, and she already said that this can never reach them. Hmm. Okay, I mean, it's not really their business. And it's not your fault, but I suppose I get your concern. My mom and dad would be devastated too. They never grasped the whole internet celebrity concept, and my mom would always say, as long as she doesn't do point. or anything like that. So literally mom's worst nightmare, this. Unless she's like, I don't know, it's unclear what the sister is actually doing on OnlyFans. She might be streaming herself playing video games partially naked or something.

I don't know, twerking while she plays League of Legends or whatever. Yeah. Hard to say. Yeah, so it's unclear whether she's doing porn. But even if she's not, in their view, it's probably at least in the vicinity. I can just hear a poor mom now, like, naked League of Legends, my little baby playing Naked League of Legends. Where did we go wrong? She should be playing naked Halo.

It's got a much more with her learning curve. Oh, man. Okay, so he goes on, we're supposed to go see her soon for the holidays. My parents are going to ask questions about what she does for a living and they're obviously going to know she had work done.

Right. Well, she can't hide them Sailor Moon-like surgery-enhanced cakes forever. But that's for her to deal with. It is, exactly. I'm getting the sense that he feels somewhat responsible for his sister, or actually maybe more responsible for how she makes other people feel.

Their parents, his in-laws, but let's come back to that. So he goes on, a few days ago, I told my sister that I knew about her only fans. She didn't really understand what was so wrong with it, saying that none of it was formerly explicit,

aka nude. Okay, so it's not porn. She's just like talking about her day and her booty shorts or whatever, but still, I guess, it's over there. I pointed out that it's close enough to be controversial. She wants to produce music

and be a singer, and I told her that almost all of these guys just see her as a sexual object and that record labels will not take her seriously. She agreed to ask the people she knows in the music industry for their opinion and gear the content she makes to people who will stick around through her music career. Wow, okay, I have to say, that actually sounds like a really good conversation. Yeah, I mean, I agree. You told her your concerns. She took them in.

She said she'd seek out some counsel. She's open to being thoughtful about how she markets herself. What kind of audience she's building all this? I mean, that sounds pretty encouraging. That said, if she really wants a career in music, has she not already consulted the people she knows in the industry? It seems like she should have done that first. Anyway.

The next day, I got a text from her saying that she had talked to people, taken my advice, and decided to shut down her Instagram with the content, admitting it was not the best look. I said that I wanted to do things she's proud of and that her friends and family can openly share. Okay, so she shut down the Instagram, but not the only fans. I wouldn't necessarily have driven her to that conclusion, but if that's what she wants to do and that's the best thing for her brand,

I'm all for it, awesome. You mean not because you disagree with the outcome, but because it's not his place to tell his sister what to do with her career. Yeah, but also it's probably a good move because if you're like, I'm a producer and someone's like, yo, this, you, and they're holding up you playing Naked League of Legends or in lingerie, it's like, really? Although that's also an interesting question.

You know, what is controversial these days? I feel like if you build a following in some way, I don't know, our culture is so weird right now. I can't really tell what's a liability and what's not. But wasn't Cardi B. an exotic dancer? And she has a huge rap career. But being an exotic dancer, is that in a different league from being a kind of vaguely

porny only fans person? Maybe. Hard to say. Maybe because it lives on on the internet. Anyway, he goes on. But I'm still worried that this will be a giant skeleton in the closet and will very easily come out if she does make a name for herself. If my parents ask me what I know about my sister, do I tell them? Or is it best to keep quiet and deny it?

And how do I handle this with my soon-to-be family-in-law, signed in a tussle over my sister's side hustle? Fascinating. There's got to be so many people in your shoes, especially post-pandemic, who have friends and loved ones who do only fans on the DL. It does raise some thorny questions, and it probably makes a lot of Thanksgiving dinners pretty awkward when weird cousin, Penny immediately recognizes your girlfriend and won't shut up about her online Mario Kart skills over the green bean casserole. Like, yeah, you're pretty good with Toad, huh? So it's interesting. I'm having two very different reactions here. And I think they're compatible. But Gabe, help me unpack this. Let's see if this makes sense. Okay.

On one hand, your sister never coming home to visit, dramatically altering her appearance, using her body, marketing herself in a way that can really skew your view of the world and be terrible for your mental health. All of that concerns me, just like it concerns you. on the other hand, it's your sister's life, it's her career, it's her body, and if she wants to build her brand and make money in this way, I'm not saying it's the right brand or that's the best way to make money or that's worth it, long run, I don't know. But if that's what she wants to do, I also think it's important to respect that. I think there's a lot of stigmatizing of this kind of work in a way that's not necessarily totally fair all the time. I think that's a fair point, absolutely.

So look, this work might be kind of unsavory to some people or unpalatable. It might go against your family's values. It might be beneath her or less than she's capable of in your mind or the minds of others, your parents. But I'm also not sure that imposing your expectations on her and especially your concerns about how all of this is going to look to your in-laws. I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I agree with that. It's funny. Part of this is her problem, what it's going to do to her career. And then part of it is his problem, what it's going to mean for his in-laws. And that's not really her problem. So I agree with that. And I think that is an important distinction. But that's why I love the conversation that they had. That was exactly the right thing to do. Right. Because

he didn't go, this is wrong, this is making my life harder, you should be ashamed of yourself, you need to shut it down right now for my benefit. And to her credit, she didn't go, okay, I'm so sorry. Sorry, bro, sorry mom and dad, I'll do whatever you say. You guys are always right. He told her his concerns, directly, respectfully, many of them are legitimate. She listened. She said she would think about it and talk to people, which is smart. She did that. She came back and said, you know what? I see your point. I agree. I need to rethink this. And she made the call for herself. Honestly, I don't know about the morality of only fans. I also have no problem with people doing sex work or something in that vicinity in a safe way online if that's what they want to do

or anything in that neighborhood. I'm still a little confused about what she does. But on the level of their relationship, how they communicate as siblings, this all sounds pretty respectful and appropriate to me. Yeah, for sure. Look, I'm a little biased towards our friend here for a couple of reasons. First, I'm with you, Gabe. I have no ethical objection to people doing only fans. I found out about it years before the pandemic, right when it was sort of new and small and niche, because there was a listener who was always like, I love your podcast. And I was like, who is this guy? And he had an only fan link. And I was like, what is that? What is only fans? And he looked kind of a little porny in his photo. So I clicked on it and it was definitely some mussely

dude, greasy oil spray tan. And I was like, oh, this is like softcore gay porn or whatever. And I was like, all right. So I look, I have no ethical. objection to people doing only fans. There are people on their building crazy big audiences, literally making millions of dollars and having fun. It's not all sex work. A lot of it is, but there's a spectrum here. So this isn't me being like some kind of prude or a moralist. But we also know that this kind of work can easily tank your mental health and it can damage your relationships in real life. And it can make you addicted to validation and it can make you view your audience in a very narrow utilitarian way, which is basically how do I make money off you? Yes. And that is the problem.

that is not healthy. No, it's not good. This is well documented. I didn't get this from a leaflet handed out to me outside of a church. There's research about this. This is not a puritanical talking point. So I'm not sitting here going, your sister's side hustle is despicable and she shouldn't be allowed to do this. But I'm also not going. More power to her. Only fans is a great way to present yourself to the world and make a living. Screw what everyone says. Because you can make some good money, fine. But at what cost? Well, especially because she has more to offer the world and she has bigger ambitions. Right. She's not just trying to be a cam girl for as long as she can, and that's where it ends for her. She's not doing this because she has no other outlet or source of income, and she's got to feed her kids.

She wants to make music. She has an allowance from her parents. She could be a Walmart greeter if she wanted to, and then she could do her music career. And this just might work against her with the goal of ever doing anything else. So on a business level, it probably isn't the right move. But the other reason I'm concerned, and again, this isn't coming from a judgmental place. But the plastic surgery thing is another red flag for me because she's 33. She's still so young. And she's altering her appearance in some dramatic ways. I'm not saying anybody who's under the age of 50 shouldn't get plastic surgery. You want double eyelid whatever because you're Asian and you want.

I can't even tell the difference, honestly. But cool. If you want that, you know, do you. She's altering her appearance in some very dramatic ways and some probably irreversible ways. The writer said she looks like a cartoon because people. on only fans and specific internet subcultures like that. And I do worry about what that says about how she sees herself, how much she values herself. And again, to say nothing of what that means for her future career, because she's locked into that look now. Right, because now she's locked into some

Sailor Moon Cardi B mashup. It's a little scary, honestly. Yes, I agree with you there. For all these reasons, I do think our friend here was right to say something. But if she had dug her heels in, I probably also would have said, okay, you said your piece. Now you got to respect whatever your sister wants to do. It's her life. So, okay, let's talk about the in-laws. What does he do there? All right. So my feeling there is, I understand that it's uncomfortable for you to have a sister who looks and acts very differently from what your partner's family expects. Your sister feels like a liability to you. And maybe she is a liability. I get it. I really do. But like I said, she's not ultimately a reflection of you. None of her choices are your fault. And to Gabe's point,

I think you might be carrying some sense of responsibility for her that's making all of this feel a lot riskier. And again, I get it. I think that's a normal response. But given that your sister has already done this, I do think that you now need to accept it. And to not conflate her choices with your image and your reputation. Which also means accepting that your in-laws might find out about her one day and feels like such a remote possibility. But if they do, they're probably going to have some feelings about it. and that's their business.

It's not really yours. Yeah, but I think his concern is, it doesn't matter if that's how he feels, if his in-laws are the sort of people to hold something like that against him and the whole family. Look, if they ever did find out, I'm trying to understand how they would.

I'm guessing these people are not casually scrolling only fans. I doubt they're going to Google your sister's pen name out of the blue. But if they ever did find out, he could tell them, you know, look guys, my sister is a very different person from me. She made some choices that I'm not a fan of.

She ultimately agreed that they weren't the best decisions. She decided to change directions. I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable. Kind of made me uncomfortable too, but that's her life. I still love her. I know she's a good person. And I would ask that you separate your feelings about her from your opinion about me. To Jordan's point, they might or might not come around at your perspective. But that's where I think the better question actually is, how do I make peace with other people's judgments about one of my family members? Like, how do I let go of this identification with my sibling? That's exactly right.

To me, that is the crux of his situation. Because look, he can't change his sister's appearance, right? And he can't magically wipe her digital slate clean. And he can't completely control who knows what about her. The only thing he can control is how he makes sense of his sister, how he values himself, and how he handles these conversations when they arise. And a lot of that has to do with an inner boundary between him and his sister. And maybe between him and his parents and between him and his in-laws,

that boundary might not be as defined as. it could be. Yes, and also maybe releasing his own judgments around his sister that he might have inherited from his family. Not that he's entirely wrong, in my opinion. No, no, that's a really good point because when he imagines how poorly his in-laws or his parents are going to react to his sister, he might be feeling that more acutely because he feels some of that judgment himself and maybe exploring whether those judgments are warranted, even if they're partly correct, maybe that would help ease some of his anxiety. Now, about how to handle this with your parents, I think everything we've been saying bears on that question too. But my take there is,

you can share as much as you want to share. You're allowed to pull back and not get too involved. I also think you're allowed to say, hey, you know, that would be a good question for her. I can't speak for my sister. Because even if you do know certain facts, that doesn't mean you have to be dragged into this. Yes, but also, your sister embarked on this very public career knowing how it works. She understood that her friends and family might find out about what she does. I mean, she was also on Instagram, right? That's why she took it all down. So I don't know how much you need to keep your sister's secrets because I'm not entirely sure that they're really secrets at all. Yeah, okay. But if you're unsure how to handle that, why not just ask her? Hey, sis, if mom and dad

talked to me about your work or your appearance, what do you want me to say? You want me to tell what I learned? Do you want me to stay out of it? I think that's fair too. His idea to keep quiet and deny it is also interesting. It's a perfectly rational response, but I do wonder if playing dumb is yet another way to protect his parents and probably to protect himself. You know, like, you guys can't possibly be hurt by this because I didn't even know. Or I'm going to play dumb here so you can't hold this against me. Just another possibility to consider. Yeah, it's an interesting theory.

That could be the case. So that's our take, man. This is unconventional. It's uncomfortable. It's confusing. I mean, we totally get it. Your instincts and your questions all make a lot of sense. But I think what your sister's life is really bringing up for you is the ways in which you

identify with her, how you protect her, how you protect yourself, how you're now feeling some blowback from her choices in your own life. But a lot of that blowback might be in your head. Or it might not feel as dangerous if you work through some of these ideas on your own first. I'm an only child, so I never had to deal with this myself. But my parents, they only had to be embarrassed by me and me alone. No one else had to do that. But I'm also fascinated by how siblings can sometimes share certain feelings, shame, judgment, fear, anxiety, how those experiences get distributed between them, when really they're only one siblings to work through, the one who made the choices in the first place. But that's family, baby. Trust that your sister can handle this in her own way

and keep an eye on the healthy line between you and her. I promise that'll make all this easier. Good luck, and I hope your future father-in-law doesn't like anime or League of Legends, so the topic of your sister's side hustle doesn't come up at the Christmas dinner table. Oh, and if you like this advice, consider gifting Gabriel a premium subscription to your sister's only fans. As you all know, Pink Freud over here lives for some Naked League of Legends. Yeah, that's me, dude. Huge video game guy famously. I don't know. Maybe if she were live streaming herself reading Civilization and its discontents or something, I would tune in. But if that exists, that's a pretty niche. You know, something I did recently. There's an episode that's not out yet, but I did an episode

about facial recognition technology with someone from the New York Times. And there was a guy in the book who his like kink was privacy stuff, which is a, you know, whatever, kink be weird. What he did was he used facial recognition software to find only fans people and he would find them in real life. So he'd find like their high school yearbook photo or their college photos and then find them on Facebook and find them on Instagram, which is like their personal account where they have like pictures of their kids at Disneyland. And then put them out online.

His thing was like, I know who you are. Oh, God. Yeah, he's like, I never did anything with it. But I'm like, okay, but it's still super invasive. and also because you never did anything with it, doesn't mean you're not telling other people about it or the other people who are way creepier aren't doing this. Basically, it's only a matter of time

before somebody hacks only fans, gets all the creator content photos, and they get scanned by facial recognition software, which the whole point of this software is to crawl every image, everywhere of every person. That's the whole thing, right? So you're never going to get that out of the system when it's been put in there.

So if you want to launch a music career without something like this haunting you, your time is limited, man. Get that stuff. I'm not saying this is fair. It's just the reality of the world now. You know what you won't have to hide from your family at Christmas, Gabriel?

The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show

are at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, a few months ago, my school system hired this guy, I will call Jim. We both worked in IT, and he's a great person to work with and be around, and he gets his tasks done.

We've hung out with other coworkers after work for drinks and are part of a Dungeons and Dragons group. Then, suddenly, Jim stopped coming to work. A few weeks later, he told us that our HR department got a hit back on Jim's background check, and he had to be let go. Jim explained that years ago, his sister was in an abusive marriage. Her husband would do everything he could to manipulate Jim's sister

and would keep communication from supportive family members to a minimum. At some point, Jim told his sister that she should consider leaving the marriage due to the verbal and emotional abuse. Her husband found out about that and became upset. One day, his sister and two nieces

visited him at his house. Jim had been out hunting earlier that day and took the opportunity to teach them about gun safety. The kids never handled or touched the gun themselves. When they returned home, his brother-in-law asked where they had been. When he found out about the gun part, he called the Department of Child Services and reported that Jim was waving guns around their kids and threatening them.

Basically, made a false report. The local police did their due diligence, found no wrongdoing, and dropped their end of the case. DCS didn't pursue anything either, but unfortunately, they didn't. remove Jim from the potential child abuser list, which is why he was flagged on the background check by our school's HR. Since then, Jim has tried to contact every lawyer he could to see if there's anything he can do to clean a slate with DCS. All of the lawyers said the same, that DCS

is understaffed, overwhelmed, and difficult to get a hold of. One of my friends, who's a judge, said that Jim will need a lawyer who can be aggressive in pursuing the information needed from DCS, but Jim hasn't found one who's both confident and affordable. What else can we do to help get Jim's slate cleaned? Signed, helping my friend clear his name after this dirty game. Oh, man, what a cluster. I feel really bad for your boy. I guess this is a good reminder not to expose children to guns, especially if they're not your children, and especially if they're caught up in a contentious situation at home that could lead to blowback for you, no pun intended. So this is really too bad because I think kids should learn gun safety. I learned gun safety as a kid multiple times in Boy Scouts,

and it came in very handy over here living in America, especially Detroit, L.A., but I know Jim's intentions were good. He just got really unlucky. Poor Gary. As per usual, we wanted to get a good handle on Jim's legal options here, so we reached out to defense attorney and friend of the show Corbyn Payne. And it was interesting timing, because as it happens, Corbyn just ran into this exact situation in real life with one of his cases. Apparently this sort of thing happens a lot, which shouldn't surprise me, I suppose. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands of Jims across the country caught up in a bureaucratic nightmare like this. As Corbyn put it to us, Jim's story sounds like a conspiracy theory or some lame-ass cover to explain away real abuse on his record,

but it's not. DCS keeps a list of accused abusers. Corbyn said the list is super private. It typically only comes up when somebody's being considered as a foster parent or something like that. Theoretically, it's unlikely to impact Jim's life very much. It probably wouldn't have come up at all if it weren't for the fact that he was working in a school system. So Corbyn said there are only really two options here. Option one is Jim can let it go. Unless he has a burning desire to foster or adopt a child or to work around kids, Corbin's opinion, again, is that this is unlikely to impact his life. If he's down to work in IT for a bank or whatever and he's fine with that, this could just be one of those things that linger in the background, but don't ever really

hold him back in a big way. But this would mean that if something ever happened to any of his relatives and they left behind a child who needed to get placed with somebody, Jim's not going to be considered, which sucks, but probably and hopefully will never come up. Option two is, Jim hires an attorney and sues DCS for injunctive relief. Injunctive relief is basically a type of lawsuit where you ask a judge to order another party to do a particular thing or not to do a particular thing. Now, Corbyn said this is kind of a tricky thing to pull off because of child confidentiality laws. Only a judge can unseal those documents and take a look at them. Jim, or even an attorney, can't just call up DCS and negotiate his way off that list. DCS employees can't even

pull this information unless they worked the case in the first place. And those employees aren't the ones who make decisions about who gets taken off that list. Right. So a lawsuit sounds like the only way to write this wrong, although I have a bad feeling that Jim's going to have to prepare for a very, very long road ahead, which is so sad. What a headache. But look, I hear you that Jim is having a hard time finding an attorney who's affordable, and that's really tough. So you might want to encourage him to get creative and proactive here. Maybe if he tells his story to an attorney in a super compelling way, he can appeal to their sense of justice, maybe get them to work with him a little bit. Who knows? Maybe they lower their fee for him. Maybe they let him pay in installment.

whatever that looks like, you would be amazed what people are willing to do if your story is compelling and you just ask for help. If he still can't afford a good lawyer, I don't know, Jordan. I mean, I feel like at that point maybe he starts a go-fund me and get some help from family and friends, which now that I think about it, could be a good way to both get some financial support and also put his story out there publicly, you know, go on the record with the facts. This is what happened. This is what my brother-in-law said. It is not true. Maybe that way he can control the narrative a little bit more and people and prospective employers who come across it will know that he's not actually dangerous. I don't know, just an idea to kill two birds with one stone there. And even if he raises,

you know, a third of the total cost of an attorney, I imagine that would still be a huge help. Yeah, it's a nice idea. I mean, if he wants to go public with the whole thing. I like the storytelling aspect. That could be therapeutic for him as well. I wish we had better news. To quote Corbyn here, this is a Kafkaesque dilemma that he's in. It's done to protect the kids, but it's really causing problems here for Jim and people like him. And that's really unfortunate. It's not right. It does break my heart that this guy lost a good job

because some maniac a-hole screwed him over. But I guess them's the breaks. Time to get creative and determined. Wishing Jim the best and hope the case goes his way. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a lot easier.

So if you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your neighbors are eaves dropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're wrestling with PTSD after losing all your possessions in a housefire. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Okay, what's next? Hey guys, seven months ago, I left a job that had become very toxic due to a merger.

Luckily, I had some long-term friends slash colleagues working at a place that had an opening that aligned with my experience. Fast forward to now, though, it's a terrible fit and I hate it. I am so miserable. I'm considering looking for a new role, but I feel a sense of obligation to stay here, or else my personal relationships might be jeopardized. They posted the job and I went through the entire interview process, so it's not like they just saved me, but I still feel really bad about leaving. But I also need to do what's best for me. Help. What do I do? Signed piecing out without damaging my cloud. Good question. I appreciate that you're being so thoughtful about this. The fact that you're concerned about how this might impact the people who got you here is pretty smart, and I'm sure that that's part of the reason you had this support system in place in advance. So kudos to you for that. All right, look, if this is truly a terrible fit and you're miserable, and this isn't a situation that can change by shifting your mindset or talking to your bosses or something like that, then you are well within your rights to look for a new role. If you'd only been there for two or three months, then I might say, hey man, and you need to stick it out a little longer, make sure it's really not growing pains, make sure it's really not a fit.

But if you've been there for seven months, you probably have enough data to know whether this is the right place for you. You might consider sticking it out for a year just to avoid having a seven-month stint on your resume. But honestly, that's usually only a liability if you have two or three of those short stints back to back because then it looks like you're the problem.

And if you find another job, hopefully when you like and you want to stay at for a while, then it's very easy to tell the story of, hey, I was at this place for seven months. I was recruited by this other place I was super excited to work at, so I made the jump. Not a huge deal. That said, I definitely think it's important to protect your relationships and do right by the people who helped you.

You don't owe it to them to stick around in a miserable situation just because they helped you, but I also wouldn't quit and send your colleagues an email saying, hey, I got a new job, peace, and like never talk to them. I would reach out to these people, especially the ones you consider friends, take them to coffee, tell them you're incredibly grateful for their support, that it meant a lot that you were really excited to work at this place, but that it's just not working out the way you'd hoped, or maybe that you want to do something different. I'll leave it to you to decide how much to tell them. If they're fellow employees around your level, it might be okay to open up about why you're

unhappy. They might feel it too. But if these friends are in management or they just love the company and they're super tight with all the higher ups, you did say they posted the job, so that makes me think they're a little bit influential there and or higher up. Then I might keep it a little more vague. You don't need to give these folks the full. story. You can just communicate the basic gist and be diplomatic. Otherwise, you might end up just venting or gossiping or telling them you're leaving prematurely. Either way, though, I probably wouldn't tell them until you're 100% sure that you're quitting and or you have a firm offer in hand from another place. Whatever you do, be gracious, be grateful, put in the work to leave this job

on a great note. Don't drop all your projects and let somebody else pick up your mess. That's how you look out for yourself and be gracious towards them. If you communicate this the right way, I have a feeling they'll understand or at least they'll respect your decision. My only caveat is that if these difficult workplaces become a pattern, then I would try to figure out why you keep ending up in them. You did say your last company became toxic. So it sounds like that was outside your control. But then this office isn't great either. So that makes me wonder, you know, why aren't these places a good fit? What's going on here? Sometimes the pattern is just that we settle for questionable bosses or workplaces or that we interact with these workplaces in a certain way or that we don't have a strong enough, set of boundaries to not let the usual workplace drama or BS get under our

skin. Something doesn't have to be your fault for it to be something that you can control. And that's just another angle to consider as you make this decision. Good luck. You know what else is out of control, Gabriel? The recklessly good deals on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear on the show, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. You can also always search for a sponsor using the AI chatbot on the website as well. You can also email me, Jordan at jordanharbinger.com. If you're super

lazy, I will dig up the code for you. It's that important to use those codes. Thank you for supporting those who support us. It really keeps things going and makes it possible to continue creating these episodes week after week. Okay, back to Feedback Friday. What's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My wife was recently approached by a ghostwriter wanting to ghostwrite a biographical book about her after seeing her deliver a keynote presentation at a major conference. The website has several testimonials and she's excited about the opportunity. But I'm skeptical. It's not that I don't want her to write a book. I think she has a fantastic story between being a woman in tech sales and losing her mother to a 13-year battle with Alzheimer's. Our wedding actually made the news

because of her mom, and my wife has even been a featured speaker at Alzheimer's conferences and gala's. The content is there. I'm just skeptical of the process. My wife would pay the ghostwriter between $25,000 and $30,000 and in turn would get a book and marketing services and keep 100% of the royalties on the sales. But I worry that this guy's going to get $30k from us, and we'll just end up with a garage full of unsold books. I'm sure dozens of ghostwriters have approached you. Is this legit? Is this something you would recommend?

Signed, protecting my bride from being taken for a ride by some dodgy guy who might or might not be on her side. Great question. First of all, your wife sounds like a badass. It definitely sounds like she has a great story to tell. I hope she finds a way to share it with as many people as possible. But I share your skepticism completely. I've interacted with my fair share of these ghost writers, both legit and otherwise, so here's my

brutally honest take. This is a business for the ghost writer, obviously. He gets paid no matter what, and that's key, so remember that. The reason he thinks there's a great book in everyone he approaches is that he doesn't actually care if there's a real book in anyone he approaches. Not that your wife doesn't have a great story, sounds like she does, but that's not even relevant to this guy, because it doesn't matter to him if the book sells. All that matters, is that he collects his fee. Think of it this way. If this guy thought the book would make more than $30K in royalties,

he would be negotiating a share of those royalties, but he's not. This play for him is about collecting a risk-free upfront fee and then moving on. And that's fine for some people. That's a business model. And I understand there are people out there who are willing to drop $30K to have a book

and they don't really care if it sells well. They just want to have a product to point to and share with people and pass down to their grandchildren or their employees, or whatever, and so the arrangement works. But if you are a real aspiring author who wants to move real copies

and use the book to create valuable opportunities, which it sounds like your wife wants to do, then I don't think this is the right route for her, because so much of publishing is about marketing. And these marketing services he's talking about, it's probably meaningless. If this ghost writer could market books really well, he would do that,

and then he would want to keep a share of the royalties from those efforts, like I said earlier. Keep in mind, legit, OG. publishers, they choose books they think they can sell. Then they offer advances to the author to write the book. The publisher then markets the book in concert with the author. This guy is choosing books based on, I don't know, who can pay $30,000 for him to write it. Once he's done writing the book, actually scratch that. Once he has your money, what leverage do you have? Takes too long to deliver the product? Tough rocks. Don't like the book when it's done? Tough rocks. Book doesn't sell well,

wait for it. Tough rocks. He's got your money. and yeah, you probably have a garage full of books. Also, the technical work of writing and the more businessy work of marketing are so different. It's kind of hard for me to imagine that the same person can do both of those things really well. For sure. Marketing a book, it's hard. Trust me, I get a lot of pitches from authors, both random people who self-publish and proper PR people who work with big publishing houses. And it's really difficult to position a book and get a decent media person's attention and book the interview and make sure the interview converts into book sales.

And it takes a lot more than that too, right? It takes building a following online, running a newsletter, communicating with readers. I mean, this marketing thing, this is a ton of work. If it were easy to market a book, everyone would just self-publish their work and publishers wouldn't have thousands of employees, many of whom are dedicated to marketing and sales. My bet is that this guy's marketing services are just a bunch of websites, blog posts, e-books, tutorials, stuff like that, Zoom calls that are recorded, right? basically a bunch of websites about how your wife can market her own book based on information from 2009.

And sadly, they're probably not going to do anything for her. So my take is stay away from folks like this if your wife wants to write a good book and make a real impact with that book. At best, this ghostwriter is a contractor with a narrow interest in your wife's story. At worst, he's a borderline scam artist. If your wife wants to be an author, I'd encourage her to really develop her story, work on her writing, start building her own marketing machine, which, by the way, yes, it can take years and is worth the investment, then self-publish successfully or pitch a publisher.

If her story is that meaningful, and it sounds like it is, she and her future readers deserve a real book written by her and or a ghostwriter who is legit and genuinely dedicated to producing something amazing. Good luck. All right, what's next? Hey, guys, I have three boys.

The middle one is a preteen and the oldest is a teenager. They both have had girlfriends for the past few years. The boy's mom and my girlfriend told me that I need to have the talk with them, and I agree.

Yep, this is when it should happen. Probably sooner for the teenager, but better late than never. But I don't know how to go about it. I'm a first-generation Latino male, and my dad never had the talk with me. All the more reason to have the talk with your kids. This stuff shouldn't be shameful

or off-limits. You want open communication around this for sure. The boy's mom wants them to practice abstinence. I think it's important to be safe. My plan was to talk to them, provide them with protection, and tell them to always use it. Yep, solid plan. And to call me if they ever don't use it so I can go and get them plan B. Ooh, less solid plan.

Plan B, my least favorite plan. Well, your intentions are good, but let's come back to that. My girlfriend is saying that it would be inappropriate for me as a parent. to provide plan B for an underage boy to give to an underage girl in the event of an accident. Is it inappropriate? Is it immoral? Is it illegal? How do I have this conversation?

Signed, a pop hoping to stop, a disaster from cropping up. Well, I'm really glad you're eager to have this talk with your children. It's absolutely the right decision. So the first thing we need to talk about is what your message is going to be. You want them to be safe when they start having sex. I completely agree. your ex wants them to practice abstinence, obviously these are two very different philosophies, two very different messages to receive. So my first piece of advice is, I would get on the same

page with your boy's mom about what you're presenting to them, so they're not getting contradictory opinions from their parents and becoming confused or conflicted. Now, there's a world where you and your ex-wife have radically different opinions about how to raise your kids in this department, and if that's the case, then I think the stance you need to take is, mom feels this way, I feel a different way, going to present you with our opinions and you get to decide. But here's why I think I'm right. And if you decide to have sex, this is the only responsible way to do it. And just to be clear about something, I'm not saying that abstinence isn't an option. If that's your kids ultimately want to do, they're going to be adults soon, the teenager anyway. Where the abstinence

philosophy gets dicey, in my opinion, is when young people feel ready to have sex, but they're getting a message that their sexuality is shameful or dangerous. Then I think the whole never have sex thing can become weird, it can become repressive. Besides, we've all seen how well the abstinence movement has done for a lot of people. It's been a total failure in many ways based on the data that I've read. The research shows that educating kids about this is better than simply telling them not to do it at all. Now, about your plan. Definitely talk to them, answer any and all questions they have, and try to approach this conversation with as much openness and non-judgment as you can. It's okay if it's a little awkward.

You can even kick things off by acknowledging that. Like, hey, I know this is kind of weird to talk about with your dad, and maybe there are certain things you don't want to talk about, but no one ever had this conversation with me. I wish they had, so I'm happy to talk to you about this. I like your idea of providing them with protection. I think especially with young men, if they're too embarrassed to buy a pack of Trojans from a 7-Eleven or whatever,

that can be helpful. Although I would help them get over that embarrassment because you want them to feel comfortable buying condoms for themselves. The message there is protection is a non-negotiable. Never engage in anything without these. This is your responsibility. So here you go. The plan B of it all, oh man, I'm not too sure about that. I like your instinct to tell them that if they ever get into trouble, they can come to you. That's a really positive message. But I don't think offering to buy them plan B is the right move or even necessary. Because first of all, my understanding is that there are no age restrictions

on plan B. So teenagers can buy it on their own from any pharmacy over the counter. But more importantly, I wouldn't put that on the table as an option. Like, use condoms, but hey, if you ever don't have any or you don't feel like it, just call up your old man and he'll buy you some emergency contraceptives. And oh, bro, no. The message, in my opinion, should be you always use protection, condoms at a minimum. And if there happens to be an accident like the condom breaks and you have this backup

option. But the goal is to not have to use plan B. This is in case of emergencies. Emergencies. If you're responsible, you'll probably never need it. So let's make a pact that you'll be mature and disciplined about this. That is absolutely correct. But if something ever did happen, he's asking a really interesting question.

Is it appropriate to buy your child's partner plan B? I've never thought about that. Well, like I said, he probably wouldn't have to. They can do it themselves. And I don't know if it's immoral. That's for him to decide. My feeling is probably no, unless of course the girl doesn't want to take it. that's a different situation. I'm much more practical about this. This is about preventing an unwanted

pregnancy. That's where my moral concern is. Although I can already hear the angry emails I'm going to receive about that. But whether it's illegal, that's an interesting question too. We actually ran that by our boy Corbyn Payne quickly, and he said, well, it depends on the state, of course. Based on his understanding, birth control is usually considered healthcare. So his advice is to look at the health care laws in your state and see what, if anything, it has to say about making healthcare decisions for a minor who is not your child. In general, the more conservative of the state, the bigger deal this would be. But again, I'm not sure why you would need to be directly involved. Any minor can buy plan B, and they can make this decision alone or with their partner without ever involving a parent.

My only other thought here is I would make a real effort to approach your kids in a spirit of openness and clarity and positivity because teaching them about the birds and the bees, that is obviously very important. But while you do that, while you explain to them condoms and birth control and sexual health and all of that, you're also going to be communicating a lot to your children about sexuality in general, you know, what it means and how to behave and what place it holds in their life. So I would also take a moment to think about how you want them to embark on this new aspect of their lives. You know, what values do you want to instill in them? What messages do you want to pass on or not pass on? What mindsets do you want them to have when they engage with other people? Wrap it up every time so you don't end up at a CVS at 2 in the morning pointing at the plan B awkwardly in the locked cabinet. You know, that's good advice. But in my opinion, it's just as important and maybe more important to teach them that when they do feel ready to have sex, they should be respectful to their partners, they should be thoughtful people, they should be kind. You know, they should know that communication. is everything. They should listen. They should be attuned to their partners. They should understand what

consent is and how it works, all of that. So make some space for that conversation too. The basic facts your kids can get from a lot of places. And the truth is they probably know a lot of it already. But their attitudes towards sex and how they feel about this part of life and how they conduct themselves with other people, that is just so important. And I think that could be another really big gift that you give them in this conversation. Good point, Gabe. There are a few sub-conversations in this sex conversation, and they're all important, but this is the one where he might make the most impact. And because no one had this conversation with him,

it might be a conversation he needs to prepare for a little more. I love that you want to talk to your kids about this, and I'm glad they have a dad they can come to when they need guidance. Good luck. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much.

Don't forget to check out the episodes out of the loop with the Houthis in Yemen and Ben McIntyre on escaping from a Nazi prison castle. Again, nothing says the holiday is quite like Nazi prison castles. And I hope you all have a happy holiday, although we'll be back next week with a couple new episodes, so don't forget about those as well. The best things that have happened in my life and business

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Man, a lot of positive feedback on the newsletter. From show fans and people who don't even listen to the show and just read the emails. so definitely check it out. Let me know what you think. Show notes at Jordan Harbinger.com. Transcripts, of course, are in the show notes. Advertisers, discounts, and ways to support the show,

all at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast 1. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jayce, Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millio Campo, and, of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our, own and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about why people believe and want to believe conspiracy theories. Pretty much anybody can fall for these theories. Pretty much anybody can start watching a

a YouTube video, and because a lot of these YouTube videos are very, very compelling, then they get sucked into it, and they start believing one thing, and they start believing another thing. It becomes very understandable that they would believe these things. It's just regular people who have just kind of got sucked down a rabbit hole. It may seem ridiculous to everybody else, but from their perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're doing it because they think they're on the side of good.

So that's one of the reasons why I debunk. I want people to focus on real issues and not on the fake issues. When people start to make significant life decisions based on their conspiracy theories is where it becomes a problem. Getting out of the rabbit hole isn't just like casting away all these false beliefs.

It's kind of climbing up into a world that's composed of all these new real beliefs into the light, the actual real things that are going on. And you can see more clearly what's going on in these other areas because you've got the light of reality helping you there. There's harm done to the world, I think, if a significant number of people are making decisions based on things that are entirely false, things that are anti-science. My whole reason for doing this is based around increasing the amount of truth in the world,

increasing the amount of facts and science in the world. But if things are left unchecked and if conspiracy theories continue to rise, there is this growing division within the country. So that could be a dangerous thing. To learn how to help our friends and family escape the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, check out episode 363 with Mick West on the Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like Podcast? If you're looking for a new show to add to your rotation, something that'll make you stop mid-dishwashing and go,

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Every story is verified. Their site even has photos so you know even the most bizarre stuff you're hearing is somebody's real life. Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever app you're using right now. This episode is sponsored in part by Something You Should Know podcast. Finding a new great podcast shouldn't be this hard, so let me save you some time. If you like the Jordan Harbinger show, you'll probably like Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. It's one of those shows that makes you smarter in a practical, useful way. Same curiosity vibe we go for here,

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