The Jordan Harbinger Show - 973: Kid's Not Possessed, She Just Needs a Safe Nest | Feedback Friday

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

Your alcoholic sister's in an abusive relationship, and you worry your nieces are in danger. What can you do? Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [e-mail]. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: Your alcoholic sister's in an abusive relationship, and you worry your nieces are in danger. What can you do? Taking over from a clueless old boss can be challenging. How can you forge ahead without tinging new business relationships with his old-boss smell? “Your dad gave me an STD! Wanna share a toilet?” Your immigrant parents seem to have your best interests in mind. It's a shame they're so racist. Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [e-mail]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/973  This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals  Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!  Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored in part by Conspiruality Podcast. You know how I'm always talking about critical thinking and spotting manipulation? Well, there's a podcast that's all about dismantling new age cults, wellness grifters, and conspiracy med yogis, basically the wild overlap of spirituality and misinformation. It's called the Conspiruality Podcast. The hosts, a journalist, cult researcher, and a philosophical skeptic, dive deep into how this stuff spreads, from Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation's dystopian vision of the future to how former leftists get pulled into far-right conspiracies.

An interesting episode to check out is called Speaking Truth to Goop, where Jen Gunter breaks down the pseudoscience behind the wellness industry in a way that is super entertaining and eye-opening. It's sharp, funny, and makes you a lot harder to fool, which, if you listen to this show, you know I'm all about that. From exploring cults to analyzing our cultural and political landscape, the Conspiratuality Podcast will help you stay informed against misinformation and resist fear tactics.

Find Conspirality on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the eyebrow scissors trimming these caterpillars of life conundra. Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show,

we decode the stories, secrets, and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better-informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations

with a variety of amazing folks, From arms traffickers, former jihadis, gold smugglers, astronauts, national security advisors, or rocket scientists. This week, we had Mustafa Suleiman, CEO of Microsoft AI on AI containment, the race with China, and a whole lot more. I know AI has been kind of beaten to death on every podcast, but there's actually some new stuff in here, and he is one of the guys in the forefront of AI. So I highly recommend this one, even if you're sort of AI'd out, like many of us might be by now. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, tell stories from our weird, travels and mercilessly roast Gabe for his ridiculous apparel and self-care routine.

Speaking of which, Gabe, you know how I can tell that you don't have kids and or you possibly are holding, secretly holding a grudge against me? No. What? What are you talking about? You sent me a birthday cake, thank you very much, with coffee in it to my house. Oh. And you let me feed it to my kids at like 9 p.m.

Nobody slept till 3 o'clock in the morning, basically. I mean, that's on you, bro. I didn't know that was going to happen. I just thought you guys would enjoy it. Well, we did. I guess that's revenge for all the feedback Friday roast. Also, when my dad found out, he lost it, of course, because he's like, oh, remember that time Gabriel drank 17 cups of coffee, what I meant? Because for those who are unaware, when Gabriel met my parents, like, I don't know, seven plus years ago randomly when they were visiting California before they moved out here, you just kept ordering refills of coffee. Like you had, they just made a new pot of coffee and you drank the whole thing at the restaurant. I don't know why I did that. I was on a coffee kick or something and we went out to breakfast and I just kept ordering refills on decaf coffee, but it was decaf. Right.

Like it doesn't do anything. But my dad was like, how come he never goes to the bathroom? Like, what, what's going on? Yeah, I just sat at the table for three hours. And then you sent a cake and my dad's like, oh, what kind of cake is this? It's from Gabriel. Oh, that's great. What kind of love?

What is it? It's coffee cake. Well, of course, it's a coffee cake. If it's from Gabriel, of course, it's a coffee cake. What's funny about that is, A, I don't drink coffee anymore. Right. So this is so not my brand anymore. and B, your dad would not let me live that down for years.

No. Every time I saw him or you talked to him and you told me you talked, it would always be like, he would give me shit for the coffee. Yeah, maybe like, yeah, you want some coffee? The bit had died. And I was like, cool, we've put that to bed. And now it's being revived. I don't know if I like it.

I don't think guys who are in their 80s ever let anything like that go. They're just not sure when they're going to get another shot, you know. Anyway, so you are a little under the weather, my friend. I am. You just got back from Japan. When I did the Charles Duhigg intro before Japan, I was like, hey, I kind of sound funny because it's 4 o'clock in the morning. No, I sound funny because I have whatever kind of black lung is going around. Yeah, you got that Tokyo tuberculosis or something.

Yes, that's right. Besides your life-threatening illness, was it awesome? It was great. Yeah, I went snowboarding in Niseco, which is in Hokkaido, which is all the way up north, basically near Siberia. It's supposed to be incredible from what I hear. It's incredible. I mean, the snow sports are great, but also it's just like, it's a different kind of cold because it's mountain cold, but it's Siberian winds basically just blown over there to Japan.

Oh, wow. And you just get the craziest snow and weather. And it's beautiful up there, of course, too. And it's also really safe because it's Japan. So my friend lost his phone and he's like, well, I'm never going to see that again. You know, you lose your phone at a ski place. And sure enough, you hear the lifts stop. And they're like, oh, ma, please come to lost unfound for your phone.

And I'm like, not only did they find it, they announced it to the whole resort so that if you're still here, you know where to go and get it. That is the most Japanese thing I've heard in a while. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love that country. You lose a phone on a resort in America. If it makes it to the lost and found, they're not going to like try and reach you. No. Of course not.

That's their phone now. Right. It's their phone. We'll see if this dummy comes up. But how does that, the whole mountain stops to reconnect somebody with their Android? That's incredible. Yeah. Absolutely wild.

Amazing. But on the flight out to Tokyo, we're like halfway. They're not even. And suddenly there's this like super strong Cheeto smell. I was like it's kind of like the Cheetos are spoiled. But how did Cheetos spoil, right? They can't. They're not like a food.

Yeah, well. And then it sort of graduated into like a real cheese smell, but not like, oh, Brie. But a cheese where you're like. Like a stinky cheese. Yeah. Like who brought the, what French A-hole brought Grier or whatever like baked to Tokyo? To Tokyo on a plane and then is opening it, repeatedly opening it. Like behind me, I was like, Jen's gagging.

And I'm like, relax, because behind her is like this bulkhead. So I'm like, it's not even close to us. It's got to be the guy next to us. And then he's looking around. And I sort of like secretly go over and almost sniff the guy just to see if he's a culprit. Turns out that he's like this really nice guy who also was like, what is that? And I was like, I don't know.

And then the row behind the bulkhead, I'm like looking at these guys, this like row at dudes. And I'm like, okay, which one of these guys is eating this disgusting stuff? So I'm looking at what they're eating. And I'm looking to see if they, like, what's going on? Like, are they doing something weird? And then one of the guys on the end makes eye contact with me. And I'm like, I do like the, what is that smell look on my face?

Like, what is that? And he looks at me and he just does this thing with his head and eyes that's like really subtle. And I'm like, oh, he's pointing to the aisle. I look across the aisle. There's no one there. And he's like, no. And he gives me this thing with, this is all like eye contact communication. This is incredible.

He does this thing with, he's like, no, like behind me, behind. And I look and there's this. really big white dude. And I'm like, okay. And the guy who's making eye contact with me so repetitiously reaches down really low to the floor and goes, psh, and squirts this like deodorant that he had from his bag onto the man's feet. What?

And I'm like, oh no. Hold on. There are two things going on here. Yeah. So it's this guy's feet? It's this guy's feet. Oh, that is so disgusting. Yeah.

And I'm like, no. That can't be it. Like I've, my dad or me, whatever, we've had our stinky feet days. There's no way this is feet because it's like three rows up and three rows. It's a medical problem. It's a medical problem. So I'm like, no way. Hold on.

I'm still processing the other piece of information. So this guy squirted deodorant on this guy's feet. Deodorant. 30,000 feet in the air. Right. Because we were like, why does it sometimes smell like coconut? And other times it smells like Cheetos. Like this is so confusing.

So eventually I'm like, okay, I don't know what to do about that. But the problem's probably solved because he sprayed deodorant on the guy's feet. It stops. And I'm like, oh, thank God. And then I realized that it starts again. And then it stopped and I went back and I talked to the guys and I'm like, okay, so what is that smell? Because it's like, stop now.

Are you spraying it? But then how come I can't smell the coconut? And he's like, no, it's the guy behind me. He went to the bathroom. And right when he told me that I start to smell it again and I see this guy walking back up the aisle, he went to the bathroom wearing only socks. And I'm like, my dude. Stop it.

Yeah. You went into an economy class airline bathroom on an international flight in your socks. No wonder you got funky fungus feet, man. No wonder. Oh my God, this guy. And the whole cabin, like multiple rows away is like, what the hell? Probably spreading it to the bathroom as well. Of course. So now if you're also a moron and you go to the bathroom in your socks, now you're getting Cheeto feet. And the kicker is the guy spraying the coconut deodorant on him. And it was, oh God, it was so, it was one of the most discussed. So I told the flight attendant because nobody else had the guts to do it. I'm like, guys. How do you tell the flight attendant this? I walk back into the

Gally and I go, okay, this is weird, but 39C, the feet are so bad. He took his shoes off that three rows up, three rows across and three rows back. Everybody's got their masks on. People are gagging. When he goes to the bathroom, people, like, are gasping for air. There's a guy spraying deodorant on his feet, and they're like, no. They're like, oh, stop. And I'm like, it smells like Cheetos.

And then the one flight attendant goes, just stop, just stop. Are you sure it's 39C? We're like, oh, yeah, it's 39C. And then one of the flight attendants walks up to do like a flyby, and she comes back and she goes, oh, it's 39C. Oh, my God. She's like, I didn't even have to get to 39C to know it's 39C. Did they do anything about it?

Can they do anything about that? They went up to him and they were like, can you please put your shoes on? Oh, thank you. A lot of people can smell the odor of your feet. And he was so annoyed. He was annoyed. Yeah, and I'm like, you lack self-awareness to the point where you are a hazard to others. Wait, wait, wait.

He was annoyed. He was all miffed that he had to put his shoes on. And it's like, well, maybe you need to take care of this. When we got off the plane, all the guys in the row were like, thank you, and thank you. We didn't want to confront him because he was a really big dude. And this was like some kind of smaller dudes in the row. And they were like, we didn't want to confront him. I'm like, I understand that, but I didn't confront him either.

I just told the flight attendant to take care of business. I mean, it's so uncomfortable. It's so awkward. How do you turn to somebody and tell them your feet are making us gag? Yeah. That's a hard chat. And the guys were like, you know, you can just tell this guy lives like a lonely, isolated life because if you've ever had a girlfriend ever unless she just can't smell. Oh yeah,

you would know. She would be like, that's disgusting and I'm breaking up with you unless you fix it like right now. And also how does he not smell it? Is he just so used to it? You're so used to it. When you live in your own filth, which this guy must do, he also had super disgusting B.O., which is weird because he actually didn't look like, he didn't look like a homeless guy. He just smelled like a homeless guy. Oh my God. That is so horrible, dude. This is like my nightmare flight. Oh, what was even more weird is when, slash gross, is you go through security when you get to Japan. And for some reason, you also have to take off your shoes. And he took off his shoes and he was doing the thing. And they were like, sir, we have to screen. And you could see the Japanese guys be like,

nope, put on your shoes. Nope, put them right back on. Put them right back on right now. It was so funny because he was like, what? Meanwhile, everyone else had their shoes off. Whoever was screening and was just like, hell no. Wait, is this before or after the flight? This is after the flight. I don't know why we had to go through security again. So why is he surprised? He just thought the flight attendant was being mean to him or something and he had to put his shoes on. Oh my God, bro. Everybody is telling you to put your shoes back on. At some point, you go, I wonder if there's a problem.

And burn them, light them on fire, and then put your feet into sulfuric acid for at least 30 minutes every day. Correct. Go get your house tented and call exterminators because your feet are a public health hazard, sir. Literally. I'm horrified by the story, but you know what I'm most disturbed by? the thought of this man walking around that pristine country and offending every Japanese person he comes across and just giving them the impression that we Americans are just the worst. Stinky savages. Oh, that's so terrible. Like, I'm just picturing him on the subway. The other thing is it's

Japan, the one country where you're literally taking your shoes off like everywhere. Right? Like, oh, you want to eat at this restaurant? Shoes off. You want to go in this hotel? Shoes off. And then they're just like, you know what, we have shoes for you that we're going to light on fire after you your stay is over. That is so many tea ceremonies ruined. I can't even imagine. Yeah. Oh, I want to sit in the tatami mats and eat barefoot. They're like, sorry, no, no, no, can't do it. Can't do it. We're all booked up today. Yeah. Or he somehow manages to get in and takes office shoes and they have to replace all the tatami mats. Another funny thing before, I know, I know some people hate these little asides. So write us if you're like, I don't care about people's feet and then we can disregard your email.

But another funny thing is when I got back from Japan, I tried to buy the Epic Pass, which, by the way, if you're a skier or a snowboarder, those are now on sale at the lowest price for the season. They're like, you get to upload your photo. And I upload a photo, and it's like, no, this photo's not going to work. This photo's not going to work. And I finally keep trying. And it's like, you need to upload a photo only of yourself. And I'm like, there's nobody else in the photo. So then I tried a different way, like a mobile and everything. And I finally do it on desktop. And it's like, you may not upload a photo of a celebrity. And I'm like, okay. And then I realized that it says that every time. So I call the customer service line. And they're like, sorry, sir, this is a photo of a celebrity. And I'm like, no, this is just me. And they're like, it says it's a photo of a celebrity. You must look like a celebrity. And I was like, what could this possibly mean? And then it hit me. They think I'm a celebrity. Yeah, you're famous. It's official. That's incredible. So I have to go into the office and prove that I'm me. You have to go in person? That's so funny.

Yeah, they want to make sure that it's actually me. Like, it's just kind of funny. because it's actually quite inconvenient. You know, everyone has a ski pass and they, like, won't issue the thing until I go to the office, which, of course, is in, like, Lake Tahoe five hours away. But that means that no celebrity can get a ski pass. Yeah, I'm like, so what happens when an actual celebrity needs a ski pass?

Like, what happens when the rock is, like, I'm going to take up snowboarding? Nope, can't do it. Sorry, Ryan Gosling. You can't be on a mountain. Or you have to come in person and sit here for 45 minutes with all the normals. Right, right. Get in line like it's the DMV and take a photo and yada. Yeah, it's so ridiculous.

So how's the jet lag? When I came back, it was brutal. Brutal, yeah. But I used FlyKit.com, use code Jordan for 15% off. They're a sponsor of the show. I use FlyKit, and it is awesome. It doesn't fix it 100%, but I slept through every night. I wasn't getting up at like 4 a.m.

And being like, I want Schwarma or ramen. Oh, wow. None of that. You sleep through the night. You're just kind of tired when you get up in the morning because it's like 4 a.m. Japan time or, you know, 2 a.m. Japan time when you wake up. And at night, you're like, okay, I'm.

ready for bed at 7 p.m., but you're not, like, passing out in the middle of the day just because you can't take it. So cool. It's not perfect, but it works so well. And it's got a little bit of supplements, but it's mostly, they say it's 50% supplements and like 50% it tells you when to sleep and when to eat. So you're doing that at kind of normal-ish times for when you land on the plane and the day after. It just keeps you from, like, bloating up and being disgusting. Anyway, I highly recommend that. And I highly recommend Japan, but I would say, you know, this, were so traumatized by Cheeto Feet that we literally were like, can we look around the gate and make sure he's not on our return flight? The odds are slim, of course, but let's make sure he's not on

our return flight. And if he is, we were literally going to be like, we can't sit near this guy. We have to change or even upgrade our tickets. Truly. Because we can't sit near this guy. Jen was literally sick because of this. It was so disgusting. Oh, my God. Anyway, what's the first thing out of the mailback? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my 32-year-old sister has been an extreme alcoholic for the past 12 years, possibly longer. She's been in very emotionally and physically abusive relationships in her life,

and the last one almost cost her her left eye and eyesight. She never made reports about any of her past relationships, so there's no record of what she's been through. Oh, man, that's so sad. 12 years. She must be in rough shape. That's almost like half your life at that age. She now has a new boyfriend, and he's the same way. About two and a half years ago, he assaulted her, and nine months, later, she gave birth to a daughter, Nancy, who's now a year and eight months old. Oh, man. That's tragic, but okay. The following year, the same thing happened again, and my second niece, Stella, was born. Hmm.

Oh, okay, so this is obviously very dark. Your poor sister, but I'm a little confused. How does she know these kids were the product of these assaults? Unclear. And who knows exactly what the full story is? She seems to think that her sister got pregnant from rape. I think that's what she's saying, right? Twice.

Maybe that's true, but also I would imagine hard to know, for sure, hard to say. What does seem clear is that this is an abusive relationship. So she goes on. Because of the addiction, my sister doesn't remember a lot of the things her boyfriend does, so she often blows them off or doesn't believe them. She won't admit that she's an alcoholic and can stop whenever she wants, and she doesn't want to go to rehab. Then, more recently, she started telling our sister that Nancy, the toddler,

wants to kill her. Ooh. As she put it, quote, Nancy's eyes go pure black, and there is a demon inside of her. What? Okay, so this is terrifying. Her alcoholic sister thinks her own baby is trying to kill her because there's a demon inside her. Holy smokes. Yeah.

Obviously, this brought us right back to the incredibly sad story we took a few weeks ago from the friend of that woman, Emma, who killed her baby while experiencing postpartum psychosis. We weren't sure if that's exactly what's happening here. We'll get into that, but there's obviously some kind of hallucination. and or delusion here, and she's a new mom. That story really opened up our eyes to these postpartum risks, so this is all very concerning, of course. I've also come to learn that her drinking has increased as well.

I'm not sure by how much because she hides it, but it's throughout the day instead of only during the nights. My family and I don't know what to do, how to get her help, or how to help her get away from her abusive baby daddy. But we also don't want her to lose the kids and have their father get custody of them. Can we force my sister to go to rehab without losing the girls? What do you make of the whole demon thing?

What would you recommend we do to save my sister? Signed, at a loss over my sister's dark thoughts, which might or might not be due to the sauce. Oh, man, well, this is obviously a very tragic story. There's a lot going on here. My heart breaks for your sister. She's clearly in a lot of pain. She's probably developed this addiction to cope with it.

She chooses dangerous partners. She apparently doesn't see how bad her situation is. But my heart breaks for you and your other sister too. I mean, in some ways even more, because you have to watch your sister go through all this. You have to carry a lot of anxiety and sadness, too. And unlike her, you understand and remember everything that she goes through. And I'm just very sorry about all this. I can only imagine how painful this must be.

Gabe and I both have had severe addicts in our own families. We've seen firsthand how it impacts the addict's loved ones, especially their siblings. It's just awful. We wanted to share your story with an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Julie Fragga, a therapist and educator specializing in postpartum depression and anxiety, maternal and childhood trauma and grief, and Dr. Fragga confirmed that this is a really tough situation in so many ways. Because first of all, and we talk about this all the time on the show, it is so hard, often impossible, to force anyone to do anything, including and maybe especially going to rehab for a

severe addiction. As Dr. Fragga put it, families and loved ones often put in 150% of their emotional and financial energy into getting a person they love, the help they need. But if that person isn't willing to seek treatment, it can just be really tricky. The denial you're describing, it's almost always a defense that protects the addict from shame, guilt, anxiety, but obviously that also prevents them from seeing just how dangerous their situation really is. As long as your sister denies that she has this addiction and digs her heels in, there's probably not a ton you can do, and you'll probably have to come to terms with that eventually. But in a world where you do manage to get your sister treatment, Dr. Fraga said that,

no, going to rehab does not necessarily mean your sister would lose her kids. If anything, she pointed out that not addressing her addiction could make that more likely, especially if she's compromising her kid's safety by using substances and staying in an unsafe relationship, which is a really good point. In fact, Dr. Fraga said that that's an option you could consider, letting your sister know that she needs to address her addiction and go to rehab so that she doesn't potentially lose her children. Maybe that'll wake her up a little bit. I don't know. Now about the demon thing, obviously that's terrifying. We talked about on that Emma episode a few weeks back, with postpartum psychosis, a mother essentially experiences a break from reality. And Dr. Fragga explained

to us that believing your child is a demon, that's clearly an example of a delusion, which is a belief that conflicts with reality. In saying that her daughter has black eyes, that might also suggest a hallucination. Dr. Fragga also explained that sufferers of postpartum psychosis might also experience paranoia and believe that other people, even loved ones, are out to get them or hurt them, which often makes helping them that much harder. And also, interesting side note, Dr. Fraga explained to us that in a good percentage of postpartum psychosis cases, underlying bipolar illness can play a role.

But in a smaller percentage of cases, mothers can suffer from what's called isolated-only psychosis, meaning there's no underlying mental illness. Apparently hormonal shifts and sleep deprivation can also play a role in all this, but experts still aren't entirely sure what causes postpartum psychosis. In any event, Dr. Fragge said that what your sister shared about Nancy, well, it could mean a couple different things. If your sister started saying Nancy is a demon since her infancy, then Dr. Fragge would wonder about the possibility of a postpartum mood concern, even postpartum psychosis.

Apparently these mental illnesses can basically arise at any time in the first year after giving birth. Dr. Fraga said that these cases are a psychiatric emergency, of course, and require medical attention and treatment. But as she put it to us, with the right help, moms do get better. Now, because your sister's delusion started a bit later, it's also possible that your sister's alcoholism is impairing her judgment, as alcohol tends to do. And Dr. Fraga said that if she's drunk when she's saying this stuff, it's not necessarily indicative of psychosis. It could just be alcohol-induced, especially if her alcohol use has increased, like you said.

But sometimes these mental health concerns are comorbid, meaning there's more than one disorder that's contributing to the problem. Yes, these are all good theories. And I also wonder if the alcohol is possibly driving some of the delusions or hallucinations. I mean, I think sometimes drinking can get so bad that you actually do start hallucinating. But usually you hear about that with the DTs, like when you are experiencing withdrawal, it can be really bad. But yes, there's clearly a lot going on here.

So how do you help your sister? Well, the first step is to get her a medical and a psychiatric evaluation. and there are a few ways you could do this. Option one is, if she's open to help at all, you could help her find a therapist and go with her to her first appointment, wait with her in the waiting room, pick her up afterward.

This would probably be the best case scenario in my mind because the therapist would be the most qualified to help your sister and hopefully connect her with the resources that she desperately needs. It also sounds like your sister has a lifetime of very intense stuff to work through, and it would be great if she could be talking to somebody right now, if she's capable of that.

Option two is if you're worried about her safety, you could take her to the emergency room where presumably the staff at the hospital would request a psychiatric consult at a minimum. I'm assuming they would notice that she doesn't seem to be entirely in her right mind and they could call a psychiatrist to come talk to her and check her out. Option three, if this ever becomes an imminent emergency, like if you get a sense that she's about to hurt herself or hurt one of her children or her partner is about to hurt her or she's just experiencing a complete break with reality and it's dangerous, you could call an ambulance. Dr. Fragga said that medical providers are trained to ask patients if they're being hurt by a partner,

physically, emotionally, so that would be another way to help protect her from her boyfriend. Although, of course, there's no guarantee that she would be forthright about any abuse. It does sound like your sister hides a great deal, or she just straight up forgets and doesn't register a lot of what she goes through, which is so sad. And unfortunately, I don't have super high hopes there. Dr. Fragga's other concern is for your nieces who are being exposed to what sound like pretty traumatic situations. So if you ever learn that your nieces are in real danger, if they're being abused or neglected or exposed to dangerous people, there are, you know, drug use in the house or

sketchy people coming around, Dr. Fragge said that you might need to consider calling child protective services or the equivalent agency in your state and filing a report. Now, as we all know, this is a very tough call to make. It could have some big impacts on your sister and on the kids, but if they're at serious risk, it's often the right thing to do. Dr. Fragga had one. other interesting idea to get through to your sister, which was you could ask her what she would do if you were in a similar situation. You know, like, what advice would you give me if I were in your shoes? What would you tell me to do to protect my kids? What would you want for them? Dr. Fraga said that a question like that can sometimes help shift somebody's perspective. It can lower their defenses a little

bit. It can get them to see things more objectively, hopefully allow them to let you in more. Again, a classic can't read the label from inside the jar situation. Exactly. And, And no guarantees, of course. I mean, again, the big caveat to all of this is, is your sister even clear enough, lose it enough? Is she able to even have these conversations? But that could be the start of a more productive conversation with your sister. One last resource, Dr. Fragge pointed us to Postpartum Support International,

a great nonprofit focusing on pregnancy and postpartum issues. They offer resources for everything from finding support groups to helping a loved one going through postpartum challenges to finding medical providers and experts to talk to. We'll link to the PSI website in the show notes for you. It'd be a great help right now. And again, I am so sorry that your sister's going through all this, that she's suffering. There are things you can do to help her in the kids.

I definitely think you need to try. But I also think the unspoken theme of your letter is coming to terms with the limit of your influence here and bearing the sadness and the anger and the grief that that brings up. So in addition to helping your sister, I hope you find some support as well, whether it's going to therapy, reading books about addiction, trauma, family dynamics,

or checking out a group like Al-Anon. I actually think Al-Anon would be an incredible place for you right now. We've talked about it on the show before. Al-Anon is a program for friends and family members of alcoholics. It's a very powerful community. Even if you just go to a few meetings, you can even attend them remotely. You'll pick up some really important gems and find a whole community of people who are going through what you're going through.

And that can be really comforting and healing. We're sending you, your sister, and her kids a big hug, and wishing you all the best. Big thanks to Dr. Fraga for her insight and wisdom here. You can learn more about her and her work at Dr. Juliefraga.com. That's DRJ-U-L-I-Fraga.com. You can also find her on Twitter

at DR- underscore Fraga. We'll link to both of those in the show notes, of course, as well. You know what you're definitely not hallucinating, though, folks? The eye-watering deals and discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here although once again, Gabriel is sitting in the dark. To learn more and get links to all the great discounts you hear on the show so you can check out the sponsors for yourself, visit jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Two months ago, I started a new job, and my boss is this almost 70-year-old dude who's still rocking it because he loves what he does. He's a very kind man, has been true to his word, and is trusting me to take over the company in the next few years.

I feel valued and honored. Wow, that is quite an endorsement of you, especially after two months. And I think I have more to say about that, but I'm not sure yet. Well done. Pretty quick to be handing over the reins, I think. Yeah, let's come back to that. Let's see where this goes. So she goes on.

But he tends to be old school, kind of stubborn, slightly curmudgeonly, and stuck in some of his ways. I try to roll with it and just keep writing my meetings down in the paper appointment book he insists we use while I simultaneously enter the appointments in my Outlook calendar. Yeah, that's so annoying. I just can't with this kind of stuff, man. Freckin Seymour in his at-a-glance calendar from 1997. I know the dude is 70, but learning his Google Calendar, Seymour. It is not that hard. If you're running your company on paper calendars in this day and age, I kind of feel like you're trying a little bit to be a dinosaur. This stuff has been widely available since the early odds. I mean, I was working at a law firm in

like 2004 or whatever, and they were like well into the computerized age here. Of course. Yeah, you're just going out of your way to be super inefficient. Frankly, you're just prioritizing what's easy for you over what's easy for literally everybody else in your entire business and your external clients for that matter too, right? Can you send me a calendar invite? What do you mean?

I wrote it in my calendar. All right, okay. You write it in your calendar. You write it in yours. That's how it works. You line them up and we hope for the best. Maybe I'm underestimating how hard this stuff is for some. folks, maybe technology intimidates the guy. I don't know. Well, I think we know what our friend here's

first move is going to be when she takes over this company. For sure. Throw out all the paper roodexes, start a company outlook calendar, watch efficiency immediately jump 60% across the entire company overnight. I'm just shaking my damn head over here. I, who knows what else? This is just one example. Like, can you drive to the office and get a copy of those papers and fax them? Can I just copy the PDF from my, no, I need the paper. P.D. What? Yeah, exactly. Adobe who? Who's Adobe? So she goes on,

Then last week we had a lunch meeting with some potential new clients. I laid the groundwork myself and brought them in. My boss was genuinely impressed by my ability to establish this connection and recognize the substantial potential in landing them. Again, killing it, you're hungry, you're driven, I love it.

Five minutes into the meeting, while I'm making a great connection with these clients, he cuts me off and starts asking them rapid fire questions. He barely gives them a chance to respond before interjecting with remarks that implied that they lack expertise in that he had superior knowledge. He kept talking and talking even while he was chewing

and fragments of food were flying out of his mouth. Oh my gosh. That is so gross. That's Cheeto Feet, boss version. Why Seymour? Tell me, why? First of all, client service 101, don't launch artichoke dip into the client's face. Truly. Just disgusting. So she goes on, she's having the same reaction. I was mortified. It was nauseating. I kept trying to interject and soften the blow. Eventually, he must have felt his sales pitch was finished because he finally stopped speaking long enough for me to get the conversation flowing again. I had to work extremely hard to turn things around and stop them from leaving with a bad taste in their mouth. Yeah, literally. Yeah, exactly. I was going to make an artichoke dip landing in your own. This is only slightly less disgusting

than the foot cheese smell on my flight to Japan. Oh, man. It's close competition, I would say. And you know Seymour is one of those people who go to the airplane bathroom and their socks, too. Yeah, of course. No doubt.

Dude, if I were a prospective client sitting across from a vendor who's spitting crab cake shrapnel at my face during the meeting... First of all, why are you eating during our meeting? Why? You don't have time for lunch? Am I your lunch hour?

I think it was a lunch meeting. That's the vibe I'm getting. They're at a restaurant. I see. They're all at a restaurant. Okay, fine. You thought they were in the conference room and he ordered like a...

five-course meal. Yeah, and everyone else is like, hey, man, do you need to do that right now? Maybe we shouldn't put it past him. I just pictured that they went to a lunch meeting, you know, restaurant, but maybe we're being too favorable. I don't know. Either way, if somebody accidentally spit something on me, I get it. If they're just unaware and blasting stuff at me, I'm out of there. I'm not signing with them. I don't want to ever have to do that again, so I'm not going to sign with them for that reason. After the meeting, my boss spoke as if the interaction had gone exceptionally well. I was dumbfounded. We finally heard back from the potential clients and they declined to work with us. I tried to get feedback, but they just gave me a generic

answer. Well, yeah, they're not going to say, it was the crab cake shrapnel for me. Sorry. Like, since then, we also lost a very large client who my boss also offended. I was in that meeting too and it was uncomfortable. Interesting. So it's not just that this guy has bad table manners. It's that he's actually alienating people. And this is a real problem if you're losing clients. It's different if a client's like, can we deal with you and not see more? He's a little bit, you know, old fashion. You're like, I get it.

This is like, we want to remove our business from your business because we hate this guy. He's terrible. It does not get any clearer than that. No. So she goes on, I suggested to my boss that we create an online survey that current and potential clients can use to help us better understand how to serve them. He doesn't like the idea and said that he doesn't want to hear their compliance. complaining. That is telling, isn't it? Feedback is for people who need help. We're perfect. Very

defended this guy. It sounds almost like narcissistic, but it's just a chronic lack of self-awareness on top of it. What a personality. It would be funny if there were an online survey that was like, hey, why don't you want to work with us? And in the drop-down menu, it's like rapid fire questions, severe narcissism, crab cake shrapnel, like all the options. Mansplaining, lack of attumment, failure to apply napkin to face. Yeah. And then the responses get automatically emailed to see more so he has to read them. As if that guy knows how to read email, right? No thanks.

That's a good point. Well, I mean, maybe you hook it up to a fax machine or something. I don't know. If it's not fax. Yeah, I want all my email printed in case I have to look at them later. Can't look at email once you read it, right? It's gone forever. Can you laminate them so I don't spill soup on them?

Yeah. I like eating soup while I read my emails. Yeah. Does Survey Monkey send results by Carrier Pigeon? That might be the technology to go with here. Seymour uses hand-addressed envelopes with all the reasons he's a dumpster fire sealed with hot wax. That's his tech level. A raven from Winterfell listing all of his flaws.

So the letter goes on. Now I'm hesitant to bring in new clients until I have more control. But if I hold back, I'll miss out on opportunities to expand the company and earn bonuses. And despite his kindness, I find it hard to believe that somebody this set in his ways would be receptive to guidance from a younger and less experienced person like me. I've been excited about taking over this company in a few years. but now I'm not sure there will be a company left by then. How do I bring this up to him? What should I do?

Signed, a rising star wondering whether to try to change a boss who lets his food fly. What a conundrum. I really feel for you here. This is such a tough, cringy boss to have. The paper calendar thing, it's annoying, but you can work around that stuff. But the utter lack of self-awareness and the active avoidance of feedback, you know, if this guy were 20 and he was doing this, you could change him 30, maybe. He's 70.

He's not even, and he doesn't even have any interest in trying. I don't want to hear they're complaining. It's really tough. I think you have a few options here. Option one, you sit back, you don't bring new clients into the fold, you run out the clock till Seymour retires to his timeshare in Aruba until you can take over and, you know, not spray empanada dust on the very people you're hoping will pay you to do work for them.

The upside is you don't burn any bridges with clients, you protect your reputation, you do things very differently when you take over. But, man, the risk is you don't bring in new business and, demonstrate your value. There might not be any company to take over, which is a significant downside. Option two, you take a chance, you give Seymour some much-needed feedback on how he's coming across. The upside, he might change his ways, at least a little bit. You might save the company and secure your future. The risk is he might just reject your feedback. He might get hurt or angry, and of course turn that on you, and then your relationship might suffer. But honestly,

I'm leaning towards option two for a few reasons. First, if what you're saying is all true, I'm genuinely worried that there's not going to be much of a company or any company to take over one day. If you're losing big clients, not closing clients, and you can't give this guy any feedback, it's just not going to work. So by giving Seymour a little bit of feedback, and you're just trying your hand at that, you're not just helping him, you're actually helping yourself. And it's kind of like your last chance to help yourself. I'm also concerned that the cost of not speaking up is higher than the risk of saying something.

Look, Seymour is probably going to notice that you're not bringing a new business, right? he's going to notice there's no new client lunches on his Franklin Covey calendar from 1994. And he might be like, yo, what's the deal? At which point, you're going to have to explain the old I ran out of mechanical pencil refills is not going to, it's only going to hold up for so long. So this conversation might be coming anyway. But actually the most important thing here is learning to have a tough conversation like this, that's very much a part of becoming a great leader.

And one day, hopefully soon, you'll have to give an employee some direct feedback. or draw a boundary with a difficult client or fire a vendor. So this is an important muscle for you to build. Gabe, the question is, how does she frame this in a way that Seymour can actually understand? Because my fear is that she goes to him and says, hey, look, clients aren't responding well to you. And he just can't even begin to take that in. And then he's like, you're just jealous of my success. Or he's like, you're just being mean to me for no reason.

Because this is a guy who doesn't seem like he's like, screw everybody. I don't care. like the I don't understand this meeting didn't go well. It's totally different than they seemed a little uptight. Screw him. You know, it was more like, oh, that went great. And then he's like, what? They didn't sign.

I don't get it. There's not even like a little seed in his head that he's the problem. That's my issue with this. Well, the problem with a guy like Seymour is that hearing criticism is probably very distressing to him. Otherwise, he wouldn't be working this hard to avoid it. Or, again, to be fair to him, he's so old and close to retirement that he's just out of f*** to give.

And he's like, I don't want to deal. with these people's BS at my age, pass. But I really do think that he's just, there's no seed in there planted. Yes, all of these are possible. But I really suspect that it's more than that. I mean, when you say something like, I don't want to hear clients complaining. When you are literally in a client service business, you are not just avoiding stress and annoyance or being a little dense. I think you're avoiding something in you that gets triggered by feedback from people whose opinion, like it or not, really does matter. That's true. So you would be walking a tough line in this conversation. But you do have one really helpful thing here, which is these clients you brought in the old crab cake victims,

they passed on working with you guys. And you also just lost this other large client. And they're not saying why, but these clients' decision is itself a form of feedback. And that's dollars and cents. And that is something that Seymour hopefully should be able to understand. So if I were you, I would frame this conversation around those losses, get his attention with the objective reality that you guys are losing business, and try to pin as much of this feedback on these clients rather than on your perception of him. So you could say something like, look, Seymour, I love this company that you've built. I'm honored that you're trusting me to take over one day. I'm committed to setting this place up to succeed. I want to protect your legacy. As you know,

we took a couple of L's recently. You might have to explain what L's means because I don't know if Seymour's going to get it, but took a couple of Ls recently. And when that happens, I like to ask myself, you know, like, why did that happen? Could we have done something different? How can we learn from this? So I've been turning those questions over. I have some ideas. I wanted to see if you might be open to hearing them so we can figure this out together. And then I would stop right there and I would check in with him. And if he's like, hell no, you know, if those Yahoo's don't want to work with us, screw them. Well, then you have two moves.

I think move number one is you say, okay, I hear you. You want clients to take us or leave us. I have a different lens on that, but I respect your stance and then you just drop it. Move number two is you say, okay, I hear you and I know it's really annoying when clients turn us down or when they fire us. Dude, it hurts me too, honestly. But I think there's something for us to learn here. And it could help us make even more money in the future. So are you sure you don't want to talk about it?

Obviously, I'm a fan of move number two. I think you at least got to try. I also don't think you have a ton to lose. It's also possible that Seymour goes, okay, I'm listening. You know, like, what do you mean we could have done something different? You know, he opens the door just a crack. Then you could say, well, what I'm noticing in these meetings is that some clients are responding to us in a way that we don't intend.

For example, those clients who turned us down, I'm not sure if you realize this, but a few minutes into our conversation, you jumped in, you started hitting them with a lot of questions. And I'm sure that was your way of trying to engage them. You wanted them to know that we really know our stuff. And I appreciate that. But I think it came across very differently. I think they felt overwhelmed and maybe a little slighted. Like it was kind of the Seymour show, which I'm sure you would agree is not the vibe we want to create. And with that other big client, the one that just left us, you remember that meeting?

you know, my sense was that they were a little offended by that story you told about the geisha bar you visited in Tokyo, whatever he said at that meeting to piss them off. You know, Seymour loves a good geisha bar. I mean, if he keeps his shoes on, at least. Second only, of course, to the early bird special at Marie Calendors. Just getting that vibe. But yeah, frame it that way. Like, I know that was you shooting the breeze.

You and I have a much looser style around the office. But other people, you know, they have different tastes. They have different expectations. And if I'm being totally honest, I know you didn't mean a. anything by it, but it was a little uncomfortable. And I'm pretty confident that that's why we lost them. And since they're the clients, I think it's important that we adapt to them. So I really like that script, Gabe. Way to walk that line, but I am dying to hear your script for telling them about the crab cake fiasco. That one's tougher. It's so awkward. I mean, how do you tell someone that they're essentially

a Neanderthal and they have no manners? I don't know. You're the one who went up to the flight attendant and told them about the Cheeto feed. That's true. You're the one who's better at this stuff. I don't know. I think our friend here has to decide if she's going to give Seymour the gift of her honesty. So maybe you just say, look, Seymour, you know, you're a straight shooter. You shot those crab cake fragments directly at the target from across the table. Exactly. You're a literal straight shooter in ways that we all wish you weren't. Maybe you leave that part out.

But yeah, you're a straight shooter. It's one of the things I like about you. I'm pretty sure I know why these clients turned us down. I feel I owe it to you. I feel I owe it to both of us, honestly, to tell you it's something that is so easy to fix. and if we avoid this in the future, I think we'll bring in a lot more money. Solid start. I like it. I'm hearing a lot of diplomacy here, Gabe. Not a lot of your spitting crab cake in people's face. But I just, I know I'm a harping on this. How on earth is she

going to handle that? We got to give her some words. I know. Okay, then I guess here's what you do. You say, you probably didn't realize it, but while you were talking, you were also eating, and it was a whole situation around your face. And unfortunately, between the rapid questions thing and the talking with your mouth open thing, I unfortunately do think that turn them off. That's what you say. Not bad. I mean, I know it sounds like I just keep bringing up the same joke,

not trying to kill the joke, but you have to bring up the fact that he spits food out when he talks. And that's not bad. I mean, that's basically what this is. You can't talk and eat. It's something I learned when I'm five and you're 75, and here we are, you know, better late than never. You don't have to tell him that he eats like a geriatric toddler,

but you do have to be clear enough for him to realize that he made a major faux pa. Yes, I agree. Right. And somewhere in there, I would also say, I want to keep killing it for you. I want to keep bringing in clients. But I need to know that we're going to handle them respectfully, tactfully. So I just wanted to get on the same page about where we need to adjust so that we can all succeed. I love that. That's exactly right. So if you frame it the right way, he might be able to hear it. I hope he can, but I do worry that you're up against a lot here. Because even if he can hear you out in this conversation, there's no guarantee that he's going to reevaluate his whole personal style.

At which point the question becomes, do you stick around until he's gone, or do you bounce because Seymour is sink in the ship? And that's a tough one. I don't know this company's prospects, I don't know how badly you want to run the place, whether there are other exciting opportunities for you out there. I'd take some time to write out the upsides and downsides of staying,

talk to as many trusted people as you can about this, game and out a little. The other thing to consider is, at your age, a few years is a really long time. I worry you're going to be twiddling your thumbs, waiting for this guy to step down, and then the company folds, or suddenly he decides not to retire,

Logan Roy style, and then you'll just have wasted three years putting up with this jabroni and his flying food projectiles for nothing, which would be a shame. Yeah, that's a good point. I also just want to call out going back to the thing at the very beginning of the letter. I do find it a little strange that Seymour is talking about handing over the company to her after

two months on the job. I mean, look, maybe she really is that good and more power to her. I love that. But also, is it possible that Seymour is kind of talking out of his ass here a little bit? Yeah. Does he have a pattern of making empty promises or saying things he doesn't fully think through or doesn't mean everything he says? Is he kind of like that kind of sales guy will say anything to get the client and doesn't really mean everything? You know, so is he saying that to get her to stick around and bring more clients in? That's another question. Right. Maybe this is also part of his general carelessness that she's coming up against here. So that was the first thing that hit me. I also find this a little suss.

I'm just not sure how much stock she should put in the promises of a guy who is famously misattuned and unselfaware. In fact, just to be on the safe side, I kind of think you should remove the idea that you're definitely going to take over the company from your calculation here. because what I don't want is for you to pull punches with Seymour and make big plans for your future based on what could honestly just be the ramblings of an increasingly reckless and questionable boss. So the best advice I can give you, keep building great relationships outside this company,

talk to great people in your field, stay open to other opportunities, keep re-evaluating whether this is really the right place for you. Maybe it is. Maybe you really will take over and crush it. Or maybe this is a stepping stone to a place that actually knows how to treat clients well and capitalizing your amazing salesmanship.

Both are fair, but you won't know until you know, and the first test is going to be, go have this chat with Seymour. That's going to tell you a lot about whether there's a way forward here. Keep up the great work. Seymour's lucky to have you. Let's hope he acts like it, and good luck. You can reach us Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com.

Please keep your emails concise. Use descriptive subject lines that makes Gabe's job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your school is asking for your girlfriend's nudes, or your dog busted you for having morning sex with your partner. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up Friday at Jordan Harbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

All right, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 33 and I have a strained relationship with my dad. My mom always encouraged him to build more of a relationship with me, but he was never interested. He would tell her that I only needed my mom, that he didn't need to have a relationship with me. When I did reach out to him,

I was often ignored, or he would make fun of my interests. So I ultimately just shut down. That's a bummer. I hate saying bummer because it understates it, but I'm just sorry to hear that. That's crap. When my parents divorced when I was 19,

he threw himself into a rather cult-like church. He met a woman there, and they were engaged within two months. When my brother and I questioned him about whether he was rushing things, he blew up. A month later, they got married during a church service because it happened to fit in

with the pastor's sermon. That's not impulsive at all. That all sounds very responsible. What a pair. Hey, by the way, I have a 15-minute gap in my sermon. Do you all want to, like, get hitched or something? Because I noticed you're dating. Yeah, you want to make a commitment in front of God and the whole church?

Sure. Yeah, I got time. What are you doing for lunch? Nothing? All right. That's the reception then. So ridiculous. Since this is Feedback Friday, I can only assume stepmom now becomes a nightmare,

either slowly over time or immediately. I'm going to go with immediately. But let's see. Since then, his wife has been trying to distance my brother and me from him. Okay. Well, there it is. Although with a dad like this, I'm not trying to make light of your situation. What does distancing from you from him even mean?

Truly. You're not allowed to talk to the father who doesn't ever want to talk to you anyway and never showed any interest. Yeah, exactly. He's only making fun of your interests on Skype once a week from now on. And again, I know we're having a laugh, but this sucks. As a father, this other dad, if you can even call him that, grinds my gears. How do you bring a child into this world and you don't celebrate and support them? For me, it was instant and automatic.

For most parents, it's instant and automatic. I know she feels bad about this and she's internalizing some of this, but this guy is defective. He's a defective human. He's a defective father. If you don't feel a bond with your children, maybe for the first few months, you get worried about that. I was worried about that. Other dads say they were worried about that.

After that, though, you know, you've got your 19-year-old daughter. If you're not attached to her, that's a you problem. That's not her. It has nothing to do with the kid. There's something wrong with your brain as a man, as a dad. That's a you problem. So I won't harp on that anymore. So she goes on, when I lived with them for a couple months, 10 years ago, she spent that time threatening me,

and when she wasn't threatening me, she was fighting with him. At one point, she cornered me in our garage to tell me that I should move out and that she would like to move in with me, because since I'd been home, my father wasn't the same. Okay. This woman is all over the place. Does she like you? not. I'm super confused here. It's so confusing. Is she saying I would rather live with you because your dad

sucks now? Or is she saying, I want to move in with you and ruin your life the way you've ruined mine? I can't tell. It's a little sum from column one, some from column two, probably, but it's unclear. What I do know is that no one should be living with this woman. My God, she sounds like a headcase. When I told her I wouldn't be living with her. She told me that my dad gave her an STD before they were married. And that's why they rushed everything. I mean, talk about your overshares. What, why would she tell you that? Also, not a great pitch for living together, is it? No.

Your dad gave me an STD. You want to share a toilet? Like, what? Seriously, I have the clap. Can I borrow your lufa? This woman sounds like she's just off her, freaking rocker. When I confronted my dad about this, he told me I needed to grow up. Lots of people have herpes, he said, and she was aware of that before they had sex.

Okay, well, he's not wrong, and it's not even that big of a deal. For people who have herpes out there, I am not making light of your situation. I just think it's gross that you're talking about it with your stepmom and it's because of your dad. Like, why are you talking about this? Why are they talking about this? That's right. This is between them. Once again, ew, not you herpes. Ew, dad and stepmom banging and giving each other STDs. That's the gross part.

I packed that night and moved out. I bet. And took my lufo with me. I'm just kidding. She didn't say. His wife later lied to my brother about how I found out about the SDD and constantly tried to cause fights between us all. Our relationship has been distant and rocky since. Then, last year, I received an extremely long text out of the blue,

letting me know that I'm not a good daughter and that I'm not a priority to him, but not in his usual language and spelling. I showed my brother, and we both thought that his wife was probably up to her tricks again. Don't you love when you get a text and you just know somebody else wrote it? Oh, it's the best. Yeah. It's like your very own personal little ventriloquist show, except the play in this case is about your childhood trauma. And just like ventriloquism, super creepy.

I will say though, sometimes it's funny. Like one time I got a text that was written really well, and I was like, that's weird. And then it was like, this is mom using dad's phone. And I was like, oh, okay, because my dad does not, once you see people right that you've known your whole life, like your parents, and you realize, oh, he doesn't know the difference between A-R-E and O-U-R. He says, on our way. And I'm like, wait, what?

Did you read that? Did you type that? So this woman is using the dad as a pawn, right? Or she's putting words in his mouth or she's just grabbing his phone and sending it. And she's like, I'm going to hurt her feelings because she doesn't want to live with me. I guess. Yeah, that must be it. So this is all so petty.

So she goes on. After my parents' divorce way back when, I started therapy and have continued on and off for most of my adult life. One thing every therapist I've seen has agreed on is having limited to no contact with my father. After this latest exchange, I went back to therapy and decided to go completely no contact. But several months later, my husband and I got pregnant, and I decided to let him know. Wow. Well, hey, congratulations. Sorry about your dad being a POS, but this pregnancy, super exciting, and mausletoff. He then texted my brother and me saying that he's had dementia for over two years, but that he hasn't been formally diagnosed. So my brother got my dad seen at the hospital where he works. In that appointment, we found out that he had strokes he didn't.

tell anyone about, and that he does, in fact, have Louis body dementia, a type of dementia that affects movement and mental function, but that it hasn't been going on for as long as he claimed. Interesting. So he's hiding certain stuff from you, and he might be playing up other stuff? This is all very suss. My brother is now healing his relationship with our dad, visiting him more and helping with his care, and he feels that I'm going to regret not opening myself back up to him. But I simply do not feel the same desire as my brother to go out of my way for my dad. Yeah, gee, I wonder why. He encouraged my dad to write me a letter.

It listed some school accomplishments that he was proud of, a brief apology, and that was about it. I don't know how to respond, nor do I really want to. I know our relationship upsets my brother, but we ultimately had two different relationships with our father. Am I the bad guy for not writing back? How do I maintain my stance without upsetting the family balance? signed a daughter finding her way in trying to stay above the fray when her father turned the other way,

which the family now wants to downplay. Oh, man. Well, okay, as with so many Feedback Friday letters, there's a lot going on here. We could talk for hours about all this, I'm sure. But just to get to the heart of things here, no.

I don't think you're the bad guy for not responding to this latest overture from your dad for maintaining your stance with him. Your dad, he wasn't a great dad to you. Not good. It doesn't sound like he even wanted to be a great dad. to you. Or maybe it's more fair to say that he couldn't. Either way, this is not a parent who's earned a ton of love and loyalty from you. I mean, when you tell your partner that your child only needs

them, that you don't need to have much of a relationship with your child, and then you ignore your child, you straight up make fun of their interests, and then decades later, when you have a chance to repair things, you write some lame-ass notes. It's like, I really liked your fifth grade book report about the giving tree. Sorry, I didn't want to hang out with you very much. Maybe give me another chance when you fumble this relationship time and time again, what do you think is going to happen? It's super sad, right? But I'm afraid there just isn't much of a relationship here. It's not like you had a great relationship when you were young and then there was a divorce and he got distanced and yeah, no, there was just never anything. Now your brother clearly had a different

relationship with your dad. Maybe they had a stronger connection or maybe he just has a soft spot for him. Maybe he feels responsible for him somehow. Maybe he feels guilty. I don't know. Your dad is extremely lucky to have your brother's help. Like with that doctor's appointment, and I'm glad your dad has that, I guess, at least. But yeah, you and your brother, you had different dads, kind of, right? At least you had different experiences of your dad. And if the dad you had was more hurtful, more distant, less safe than the dad your brother had, then it makes sense that your obligation to him would be different. So my feeling, it is entirely fair to maintain different boundaries with him, to have a different level of contact and all that. And it's entirely fair for your brother.

to go a different way with your dad if that's really what he wants to do. I think you guys can respect the different choices you each make when it comes to being there for him. But given the facts here, I'm sorry, but I just, I'm not feeling a ton of sympathy for this guy at all. And if I were you, I'd probably be making the exact same call. I agree. And I get it. But this is tough because even if she intellectually understands that, which I get the sense that she does, because she decided to go no contact with him in the past. I'm sure it's still pretty hard for her to watch her brother be so kind and so forgiving toward her father, given how he treated her over the years. For sure. I get that. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a little angry about it, too. Like, why are you

so accommodating to the guy who hurt me my whole life? What the hell? And if so, part of her job is feeling that anger and that disappointment and that sadness and finding ways to process those feelings on her own and reminding herself that her brother's decision here is a reflection of her brother and his feelings about their dad, not of her, right? But to your point, I also feel that her brother needs to shift his perspective a little bit here too and accept that our friend has some valid reasons for keeping her distance from dad. Her relationship with him upsets her brother. I think that speaks to his very different feelings about her dad clearly. It also probably speaks to his ability to tolerate a difference in opinion between him and his sister. And on that point, I do feel for her

brother because he must feel that tension to himself. He probably has to go over there and he has to listen to his dad and stepmom grumble about the sister and, you know, it's uncomfortable to be in that situation. It's sad, it's stressful, so I get it. But I also suspect, and look, I'm going to, I'm speculating here a little bit, but I suspect that when our friend here says, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to drop everything to go take care of a father who treated me pretty poorly my whole life, that might stir up some tough feelings in her brother, right? He might see that and he might go, hmm, should I feel dumb for helping dad? You know, why can't I draw boundaries like that? Or why does it fall on me to take care of dad, even if you does want to do it? Can I still be close with my sister if we disagree about something

this big? You know, all sorts of thoughts and feelings. For all we know, her brother might be angry too. He might be confused. He might even envy our friend here a little bit for being able to take this stance on some level. And a lot of this is probably unconscious. But instead of recognizing those feelings and maybe sharing some of them with his sister so they can talk about them, which is admittedly very hard to do. But instead of doing that, it sounds like his impulse is to want to end that difference and end that tension. So he goes to his sister and he says, hey, I think you're going to regret not opening yourself up to dad. And then he goes to his dad and he says, hey, you need to write her an apology letter and make this right. Right. He becomes the diplomat. He tries to patch things up. Which is sweet

in a certain way. And I'm sure it comes in part from a genuine desire on his part for harmony and their family, which is wonderful. But it might also come from an anxiety about finding himself on a very different page from his sister. So it's like, is he trying to meaningfully repair these relationships? Or is he trying to put a band-aid on these very real wounds so that he doesn't have to be on his own here or feel like he's caught in the middle? Which, if that's something this family did a lot growing up, I could see how that would also be a part of why our friend is so angry. She might be going like, can you just listen? Can you just let me honor my totally valid feeling? about our crappy dad. Exactly right. So I completely agree that she can go her own way here and she probably

should, especially if dad continues to be this way. But I don't think that there's a way to maintain her stance without upsetting the family balance, as she put it, because the way this family operates, the way many families operate, the family balance depends on her kind of ignoring these very real wounds, dishonoring her feelings about a parent who hurt her pretty badly, and ultimately compromising on what sound like very important boundaries for her. Right, and if upsetting the family balance is the cost of her having some integrity and protecting herself, then my feeling is, okay, that's the cost. Being true to herself here means that everybody involved, dad, brother, even stepmom,

who is a whole other situation. Yeah. They all then have to live with the feelings that her stance brings up, and that's not inherently bad. It's just hard. That's their job. Yeah, it's their job. And hey, maybe this is something worth sharing with your brother.

You know, maybe you can help him understand. why you feel the need to take this stance, given the childhood that you had. And maybe you tell him, look, you and I feel differently about dad. That's kind of hard for me sometimes. I can see that it's hard for you too. But maybe we can start to accept that, you know, but you pressuring me to change my mind with him, saying that I'm going to regret it, I know you just want us all to be good, but that's not very helpful or appropriate to me right now, given what has played out here. Right. That could be a really good conversation for them. What I like about that is she wouldn't necessarily be trying to change her brother's mind the way that he's been trying to change hers.

Right. She'd just be saying, hey, this is my experience, you have your experience. So maybe let's start by getting more comfortable embracing that and just still being cool. Yes. So there's our take. You are not the bad guy here. But you can always reconsider this boundary with your dad if the facts ever change. Like if he ever makes a meaningful apology and he wants to engage with you differently

or if your own feelings about him and what you feel like you owe him change, totally fair. Just keep being kind and compassionate while you're also full. about all this. And you'll be okay. I'm so bummed and sorry that you had this dad. It sucks. There's no way around it. Them's the breaks, I guess. And I think you're doing a lot right here by staying connected to what you need. And congrats again on the baby. That's super exciting. I'm sure, you know, you'll actually want to hang out with your child and somehow refrain from making fun of their interests as they grow up. I'm shaking my head at your dad's behavior, but you don't have to repeat any

of those patterns. So congrats and good luck. Who needs a crazy stepmom when you've got these crazy deals on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. If you'll like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at Jordan Harbinger.com slash deals. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 25-year-old first-generation daughter to Indian immigrant parents, and after a tough upbringing in middle Georgia, I'm getting sick and tired of this place.

I eventually moved out of my parents' house and in with my best friend from college, which was a battle. It was the classic, what are people going to think about you living with someone not Indian thing? My best friend is black. And hearing things like, you won't last a year and you'll be back home. Oh, these are tough parents, man. Bit of a theme on today's episode, apparently. This is more than just the whole, like, strict Asian parents thing. They're rooting for you to fail part is probably the saddest. But the keeping up appearances thing and the not so casual racism, not really a great look either. So yeah, I'm sorry if you're dealing with all this. So tough. So she goes on, I know my parents do love me and want the best for me in their own

distorted way, but what they think is best for me is not what I think is best for me. My parents are very involved in their tight-knit community and religion, causing them to be very narrow-minded. Growing up, they often compared me to other people and commented on my skin color and wait every day without fail. They don't know the real me because every time I open up, I get shut down. I've tried talking to them about why our relationship is strained, but they turned things around on me saying, how could you ever think that? Everything we've done is for you, which means paying for everything and buying the nicest things, which I would trade for an actual relationship with them any day. Oh, that is so sad.

It is incredibly sad. To be fair, they're immigrants to America. They probably worked insanely hard, sacrificed a lot to give their daughter a good life. So when they say something like that, I'm guessing they mean, how could you be mad at us? All we do is try to make your life better. But their way of making her life better is so flawed and it's hurtful. And so their help comes with these big costs. These parents can't make room for both of those facts.

So it's an interesting question, how much to hold that against them. Right. If their background makes it hard for them to do that, I just like at what point do you stop saying, oh, you guys are just stereotypical Indian parents and start going, okay, you guys are kind of a-holes. Right. Yeah, very confusing. She's, I think she's in the process of figuring that out. So she goes on, my parents want me to marry a very specific Indian guy who is of the same religion, cast, level of wealth, and respect status in the community. I have a bachelor's in biomedical engineering and a master's in electrical engineering. I'm financially stable. I think I'm pretty

decent looking. I have a great personality. but none of that means anything to them because I don't meet the ideal beauty standard. So in their eyes, I need to settle for what I can. I do not like the sound of this at all. They once tried to pawn me off on the son of a wealthy family they didn't even want to do business with. And it took me one phone call to find out that he's abusive. Wow. I went off on them and they haven't brought me another option since.

I've always said that I'll marry whoever I want to marry, but they think it'll be somebody they expect. Wow. Okay, I'm sorry. These parents are starting to really piss me off. I want to be empathetic with people with very different values, but this is bullshit, right? Yeah.

She's this super smart engineer scientist. She's financially solid. She's cute. She has an awesome personality and a healthy degree of confidence and self-worth from the sound of it, which, by the way, given these parents, kind of a big accomplishment and a testament to her own resilience. And they're like, sorry, you don't look like, I don't know, Priyanka Chopra. or whatever. So you got to just take what you can get. And that basically means whoever we tell

you to marry. And yeah, he slapped his ex-girlfriend around a couple times, but whatever. Sometimes you got to do. I mean, what are you talking about? This is messed up. You know, hashtag feminism, hashtag, hashtag, insert cultural buzzword here. This is objectively wrong and hurtful. They are devaluing their daughter to her face, first of all, and putting her in danger. This is just not okay at all. Not okay. Then, five years ago, I met a guy on Bumble. He worked in the British Army, and he was stationed at an army base near me. Oh, damn, this is going to be good. Just like, our friend here has got her very own Bridgeton over here. So I don't know what that is at all. Yeah, it's not your gem whatsoever. Okay, so it's a show on Netflix that's based on these

romance books. It's like a Victorian England period peace, fantasy thing. I assume everyone listening right now is laughing at the fact that I don't know what Bridgeton is. Probably. Nothing could be further from my areas of interest. Like, no, it does. It's a show on Netflix about romance novels that are set in old-timey England. Like, there's not one thing that overlaps with any shred of my interests. Everybody listening right now is laughing at that, but while also fanning themselves picturing our friend here secretly hooking up with a hot British soldier near her house.

Oh, okay, I got it. Yeah, I'll probably give that a miss. Feedback Fridays, all the romance novel nonsense that I really need. Also, if people from a former colony love one thing, I'm sure that it's going to be their daughter hooking up with a British soldier. I hadn't even thought about that. hilarious. So yeah. Okay, so she goes on. He eventually went back to the UK and we decided that we couldn't just be friends. So we made it official and have been doing a lot of traveling to make this relationship work. This has truly been one of the best things to happen to me. I love this guy, beyond words. He's played a large part in my mental health journey. He's helped me see the world differently and understand myself better. He's kind. He's loving, funny, supportive, everything you would

want in a partner. And his family is great. Oh my gosh. Marry this dude already. Have a bunch of adorable mixed race babies you actually love and listen to and don't pawn off on creepy guys because they aren't Bollywood enough. Don't look back. Oh, okay. Well, I guess that's this letter answered. Done. Next up. Obviously, I'm really on her side here. I'm like, go live that Bridgetton dream and don't look back. What is the issue here? But he's not Indian. Right. Okay. He's white, an atheist, in the military. Okay. Not a respectable job to my family. Ah. And has a sleeve of tattoos. Everything my parents would not want for me. But I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. Well, now I'm fanning myself. Is this what Bridgetton is about? This is basically

what Bridgetton is, yes. Yeah, I'm adding that. Add to my list, double thumbs up. That plus. All right, so she goes on, my parents do not know about this relationship because they just might kill me or themselves. I'm joking. Kind of. I don't know how seriously to take that. That is unsettling. And obviously that raises the stakes on all of this. Yeah, but also, is that just another form of manipulation? Mary, who we want or our lives are going to be over. Also, we might kill you, so your life will be over.

I don't know, man. These parents, I know this is fairly common, but the bind they've put their daughter in here, now she's hiding, she's constantly stressed. It's all just not okay. And I also, I'm also really worried about the maybe kind of sort of kidding about the honor killing, but maybe not. That's not cool at all.

I know, it's not. It's actually very disturbing. Yeah. I'm planning on making a move to the UK by the end of this year. It's easier for me to move there. I love it there, and I'll do anything to leave this place. Do I tell my parents about my boyfriend before I leave or after I've left? And how honest should I be about the timeline of our relationship?

Signed, reveal my secret bow before I go, or take it slow and possibly invite more woe. Wow. Okay. Well, this is quite a tale. my friend, a Bridgerton-esque Feedback Friday Romance for the ages. I think you can already tell how we feel about all this. Our take on this probably won't be a surprise. Except for the part where you said you might start watching Bridgerton. I did not see that coming. Watch me get way too into the show and start live texting you reaction. She did not just besmirch Mr. Fillingsworth's honor in the drawing room.

That is so eerily close to what the show is. And honestly, I would love that. And also, it would be a nice change of pace from our usual texts about a North Korea documentaries and arms dealing. Yeah, well, maybe I'll watch it at 4 o'clock in the morning while I get over a crazy jet. Like, anyway, which I don't have because of Fly Kit, by the way. I'm really happy and quite impressed that your question was not, hey, should I move to the UK or should I stay here with my controlling parents and do whatever they want for the rest of my life? I kind of thought that's where this letter was going at first, but you're already past that. You're going. You know there's a whole other life, a whole other experience of yourself and the world waiting for you

in the UK. And I just want to say, I really commend you for that. I think that also speaks to the confidence that I mentioned a moment ago. Your sense of self, courage, conviction, they are phenomenal. Another person in your shoes, she might have backed down, gone with the program, dismissed or overlooked a lot of people, like your roommate, like this guy, and that would be really tragic. Now, I realize that I'm coming at all this with American values. So that's my bias. I'm sure your parents, if they heard this episode, they'd be horrified and angry and leave us 18, one-star reviews saying that we've disrespected their culture and we're corrupting their youth or whatever. But from where I'm sitting, your goals, your values, your mindset, they're leading you toward greater freedom and

authenticity and happiness and away from parents who, despite their somewhat good intentions, do not seem to have your joy at heart at all. They seem to have their joy at heart. It's not even really true joy. It's just their need for status, the opinion of other people in the community, their desire for control over you. It's not really about your fulfillment at all. And yeah, we can forgive them to some degree, I guess. They don't know better. But that doesn't mean that what they say and do

is not hurtful and holding you back. So all that to say, I'm super pumped and proud to hear that you're going no matter what. So do you tell your parents about your boyfriend before you leave or after? Do you come clean about the timeline? Do you keep that a secret? Honestly, I don't know if there's a right answer there.

At some point you're going to have to tell them, obviously. If things progress, you move in together. If you ever get engaged, they're probably going to have to know. Unless you plan to just cut them off or you don't care to have too much of a relationship with them, which I don't, it doesn't sound like that's necessary at this stage. So part of me is going, why not just get this out of the way? You're already going to upset them by moving to another country. You might as well get all the bad news out at once. Why drop two bums when you can drop one big one? Also, for your sake, I'm excited about the possibility of you being honest with your parents. It's going to be a really scary conversation, no doubt about it,

but it might also feel really good. It might be a huge relief and very enlivening for you. And of course, I'm of two minds. But Gabe, I assume you are also of two minds. Yes, but I see your point. She's been cramping around her parents for so long and hiding parts of her life, parts of herself that are so important. That's exhausting and it's depressing.

And I think, yes, it will be really powerful for her to one day say, I know this is not what you want to hear. And I'm sorry that this hurts, but this is who I am. This is what I want. Yeah, no joke. This is almost, it's almost like coming out of the closet, except she's coming out of the values and goals closet, and it's a really big deal. On the other hand, you're already doing a huge thing by moving to the UK, and I'm sure that that conversation alone is going to cause a thermonuclear meltdown with your family. So if you're looking at all that and you're going, maybe I'm going to hold off on telling them about this guy until I'm gone, you know, one bombshell at a time. I get that. I think that's totally fair. Also, it's easy for us to sit back and say, you know, just do it all at once, get it out of the way.

You have to listen to your instincts here. You got to do what feels safest and most manageable to you. Maybe it's more important for you to break the news that you're moving first. And then when the dust settles, you can tell them, hey, so I met this guy, I actually met him back home, and then I moved here to be with him. Just know that that might make your parents even angrier. Maybe they'll feel that you lied to them and maybe they'll feel even more betrayed than if you just tell them before you move. Although how much of an issue is that really going to be at that point? The worst thing has already happened.

Right. Yeah, that's true. So maybe that's not much of a risk. She could also move and then tell her parents she met him once she got there. She could, but then she would be creating another lie and then they're going to have to keep up that lie. That's my thing, which that's going to be stressful all over again. They're going to have to constantly remember the lie, manage the dates, pretend they haven't been together for a half decade already. Tell the family, like, my parents don't know, we met on Bumble and that I've met you already. We have to act like, but, you know, that's just too much stress.

Multiple lies. Yeah, that's kind of like why I was like, oh, just rip off the bandaid. But, yeah, I don't know. Part of the upside of this conversation with her parents is finally coming clean and, you know, like the kids say, stepping into her truth. That's what's so powerful. And that means dropping the lies and the inauthenticity. So I do worry that lying about the timeline will kind of deprive her of that gift. I agree.

But again, I really get why she might have to delay that part of the conversation. If they're going to freaking come after her with a knife or have nervous breakdowns, I'm thinking about that comment you made about your parents killing themselves or killing you, which I, you said, like, uh, joking maybe, but not really. It might be prudent to prioritize the I'm moving to the UK part of the conversation, punt on the I'm marrying a white atheist soldier with tattoos conversation and just get yourself out of there safely. Thinking about it, if these parents really are this controlling, I'm actually quite worried that they could do something to make it impossible

for her to leave. Like maybe they steal her passport or something. Good point. I don't want that to happen. Make sure you've got all the travel documents you need securely at your place and not just like in a drawer because your parents, they might go there and be like ransack at the place while your roommate's there and take your stuff. So that's another good reason to hold off on telling them about your dude, in my opinion. I'm actually now leaning towards that because none of this means anything if you can't move to the UK safely and arrive in one piece. But I'm with Gabe. At some point, hopefully soon, I would just come clean about all of it because that day is coming one way another, and it's not just a practical concern. I think it's going to be a huge milestone for you

personally. Again, really sorry that you had these parents. These are tough parents. I know they mean well. I do believe they love you in their own way, but you said it best. What they want for you is not what you want for you. And if that's the case, then you have an obligation to honor and pursue the life that lights you up. And apparently that means living in, I don't know, Salisbury with a British soldier with a big heart and a full sleeve of John Wick style tats and a family that loves and accepts you. I think that's really sweet. My journey might be hard at first, and your parents might be an ongoing challenge for you, but I think this is great because, hey, this is your journey.

Sending you and your Bridgetton Dream Guy a big hug and wishing you all the best. Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened. Thank you so much. Don't forget to check out the episode with Mustafa Suleiman, CEO of Microsoft AI. Again, even if you're sort of over the whole AI thing, lots of good knowledge and takeaways in this one. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, which is the circle of people that I know like and trust.

And I'm teaching you how to do the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course. It's 100% free. It is not gross. It's not schmoozy. You can find it on the think-iffic platform at six-minute networking.com. These drills take just a few minutes a day. This is the stuff I wish I knew 20 years ago.

Dig that well before you get Thursday, folks. Build relationships before you need them. You can find it all at six-minute networking.com. Also, there's a subreddit for the show. I don't control it. There's some conversation there. You can go and find it. you don't know what a subreddit is, forget what I just said, but if you do, that it's over there

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In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with Yas al-Azade, who escaped Iran after the Islamic Revolution. This uprising is about 43 years of oppression. We have a corrupt regime, which is an Islamist regime, and has been torturing people. It has been denying them the basics of human rights. As you see, corruption doesn't really begin and end with hijab. It's everything and anything.

It's about the dignity of making it living. None of that exists in Iran. People are poor because of this regime. They work hard, but they don't earn as much. It's horrendous the way people have been suffering in Iran mentally, politically, psychologically and emotionally. I don't think an American can actually imagine what it is like to live in a country that is not just a dictatorship, not just an autocracy, but a theocracy.

That's what Iran is. This is different this time. The power of social media, the power of support by, the worldwide community and how Iranians are not backing down. There is uprising and protests in universities across Iran every day. This is a revolution, and it will end beautifully with a free Iran, free from the grips of Aito Laws and IRGC. For more on Iran and the recent protests, check out episode 746 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

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