The Josh Innes Show - CJ Stroud's Body Language

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Andre Johnson says CJ Stroud has crappy body language. Andre never really played with great QB's. But, he played with some dudes who are real pros. Is he right? Is CJ gonna get paid? Can he be fixed? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, so this Andre Johnson thing's got people all worked up in Houston, right? He was on a podcast and talked about the body language of C.J. Stroud's a fascinating cat because, I mean, are you going to get any better than Stroud? Probably not. Maybe not. The guy has his moments where he's really good. But on the other hand, like, is this a guy you're going to make that kind of commitment to, that big financial commitment to? And they have not done it. they have not done it. So if they haven't done it yet, that doesn't mean they won't. But to me, if you feel like you've got the dude, you lock up the dude.

They haven't locked up the dude because they don't think he's the dude. And I think after one weekend, look, it's a back and forth game against the bills and you lose a close one. You got the ball late. But the same shit that's happened with C.J. Stroud over the last couple of years, ever since year one for Stroud, year one was dynamic. you're like, fuck it, we got a quarterback for the next 10 years life is good. Since then, it's been a lot of lows and then kind of peeking back up again and having a moment and back down again. And that's not the kind of guy you're going to pay big bucks to.

And back when I was in Houston, a lot of people would say, when Andre Johnson speaks, people listen, because he doesn't say a lot. So when he does, it's really impactful. When I say AJ, when Andre Johnson. speaks, you must listen. So Andre Johnson has spoken. So let's do this. Let's play a couple commercials.

And let's hear what Andre Johnson said about C.J. Stroud. And this thing's got everybody talking in Houston. It's like the biggest thing in Houston right now is C.J. Stroud being criticized by Andre Johnson. And there is something to be said when Andre Johnson, even as a guy who doesn't play anymore, is willing to criticize somebody. You know, outside of the time he said the McNairns were raised. and then like they put his number up in the rafters or whatever.

And then like now the McNairs ain't racist no more. But outside of that, Andre Johnson is pretty consistent with what he does. So let's play a couple commercials and then listen to Andre Johnson. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, Peace contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge, BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system.

And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow AI Cloud ERP for any size business New from Nespresso blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range infused with functional benefits Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins

like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight Our new double espresso with ginseng extract Whatever lies ahead Don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nispresso.com. All right. So what podcast was this on? Legend talk. Is that what this is called? Legend talk. All right. So let's see here. I'd like a setup like the set up like the wood paneling setup.

I think I would enjoy the podcast more if I sat in a comfortable leather chair like that and talked. Maybe that's the next move is I need to sit in a comfortable leather chair and get all sorts of of like professional lighting and shit, like the pivot. Anyway, here's Andre Johnson. And this is just me with him. And this is just me personally. But I dislike about CJ, I dislike his body language. Like his body language is bad.

Like any time something happens. Okay, so this podcast, is he talking with, he's talking with Perk, I guess. Perk, big Texas native. My man Ben Nance played high school basketball against Kendrick Perkins. My man had to get in the post against Kendrick Perkins, who's like 400 pounds. And my man Ben, who's, you know, like as tall as I am, but not a, you know, a big dude. He got bodied up by my man Perk in the same way that I got bodied up by Glenn Big Baby Davis, two former Celtic big men.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there. So it starts with body language. He doesn't like the body language of C.J. Stroud. You know what I'm saying? This comes from Drey. We know this. We talked about it. But I'm not picking on them.

That's what you said. Yeah, it's bad body language. And I don't know like, I think as a me, me and a former player, your quarterback having that type of body language is bad because it, because other guys look at you as the quarterbacks. When they see you and they see you, you know, feeling a certain way or your body language a certain way, it kind of trickles through the team. and trickles through the team. So I would say that's the biggest thing that bothers me like when I watch the team play.

So let's go with that. So Andre Johnson's played with good quarterbacks. He's played with bad quarterbacks. For a large portion of his career in Houston, he played a pretty shitty quarterbacks, as you know. He also played with Matt Schaub. And Matt Schaub was not a shitty quarterback. We can say whatever we want about Shob and we can make fun of Shob. And we can talk about the way it ended with all the interceptions and all that

Matt Schaub was a legitimate professional NFL quarterback who most of the years he was in Houston was probably a top 10 quarterback in the league. I think that's fair. Like if you go and look at the prime of Matt Schaub, and I'm talking 2009 when he was the Pro Bowl, like 18th alternate or whatever, and got to go because everybody backed out. But 10, and 10 was the year he got hurt. No, 10 was the year that they fell off a cliff, right, and went 6 and 10. He played that whole season. The next year, it was 11. And in 11, he was very good until he had the Liz Frank injury.

Twelve, his numbers were great. 13. He threw all the pick sixes, and that was all she wrote. But Matt Schaub was a guy who, at his best, was probably in the top third of the quarterbacks in the league. And maybe at his tippy top best, you could have argued top eight in the NFL. Like, I think that's fair, especially when they were down like 20 and the man would sling for like 400 yards.

See, now I'm interested. Now, I know this is supposed to be about C.J. Stroud, but now I'm interested. Let's go to what we think was Matt Schaub's best year. Let's go to 2009. All right, 2009 NFL passing leaders. Let's just look at that because that was the year that Matt Schaub went to the Pro Bowl because like eight dudes turned it down or got hurt or whatever. Let's look at 2009 and let's look at the passing because I would assume that was Matt Schaub's best year,

not the most wins they had, although they did win nine games that year. That was the nine win year? Yeah, they were nine and seven. in that year. They beat the, they meet New England in the year. Matt Shaw led the league in passing that year. Now passing yards is not exactly the most fair gauge because a lot of times when you lead in passing yards because your team is down. And he threw the ball more than anybody in the league, 583 times, which was more than Peyton Manning, Tony Romo, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Drew Breeze, all those guys. So, you know, total yards, whatever.

But let's just look at the guys who had the, if you want to look at quarterback rating, A QB, let's just look at rating, right? Passer rating. All right. Matt Schaub was number seven in passer rating that year. And if I look at the guys ahead of them, right? I would say Manning, Ralthusberger, Aaron Rogers, Philip Rivers, Brett Farr, of Drew Brees, in their prime when they're at their best, are better than Matt Schaub.

Probably. Although, you know, like, if you said, Josh, you could have Matt Schaub or Ben Rothlisberger, I'd make a case for taking Ben Rathesberger. But like I'd say Matt Shaw being number seven in quarterback rating, and then there's QBR, which is ESPN's thing. That year he was number six in QBR, whatever that is. I don't really buy into a lot of that shit. I'm just looking for some way to gauge and kind of find a baseline of what he is. Like that year, Drew Breeze was number one in the NFL and QBR.

Matt Shaw was number six. I think it's safe to say that at his best, Matt Schaub could be a top seven, eight quarterback in the league. Is that fair? I think that's fair. Okay. So the best quarterback probably that Andre Johnson played with, because Andre Johnson certainly had quite a career with quarterback play, dating back to Derek Carr and all these guys. Actually, now I'm intrigued. Now I want to see all the guys that fucking Andre Johnson played with. Because Andre Johnson was also there in the post shop years before he went off to Tennessee and Indian Ablis and shit, where my man was playing with all those, the whole revolving door of dudes.

because he was with the Texans until, what, 14. So that means he played with Fitzpatrick, right? Would he have been with Fitzpatrick? He would have been with Case Keenham. Now, in 2013, Drey was putting up fucking numbers with Case Keenum. So, like, now I'm digging into stats here, like a fucking nerd. But the most targets Andre Johnson had in a season was 181. That was in 2013.

After Shawb was bounced and they brought in Case Keenum, case Keenum probably threw him a fuck ton of those, because my man was putting up numbers with Case Keenham. But you look down the list of teams that he was on, all those Houston teams that had bad quarterback play. Look, Matt Schaub, at his best, Matt Schaub was someone who was, can we say top seven, eight in the league?

At his best. Like if you had to say gun to your head, now I'm going all mad dog words, but if I had to go at his best, Shawb was a top seven, eight guy. At his worst, he was never lower than a mid-pack guy. Like, to me, he's a top. third of the league quarterback for most of his career in Houston, right? Which starts really in,

really 2009 was a great year. 2010, his numbers were pretty decent, even though the team went six and ten, but they started four and two. That was a wacky year. But like you look at Shob that year and you look at Shob's passing numbers for that year, you know, Shob threw for 4,300 yards, 24 touches. Yeah, like he didn't suck. Like at his best, now I want to look at that year. Let me look at each individual year that Shob, like when they were in their prime together. Let's see. Let's go to 2010 NFL passing leaders. Let's look at that. See, now I'm into this. I don't know why I'm into this, but I am. So Shalb was fourth in the league in passing in 2010 in terms of yards. His quarterback

rating, he was at number nine. And if you believe in this QBR shit, he is number 11. Okay. I can get down with that. 2011, that's a bad example because Shob was hurt in 2011. But let's see here. Shob doesn't finish on the top 20 in the league that year because Shob got hurt midway through the year. And they were a more balanced team because they were better defensively. They were 7 and 3 when he was in there.

He wasn't having to throw the ball as much because they were running the ball really well with Erie in that year. Their defense was really fucking good. And so it didn't really matter. So let's look at 12. 12 was a full Shob season, right? Bull Matt Schaub season. He was number 11 in passing yards that year.

But remember, they were 12 and 4. And he threw the ball 40 fewer. times than he did that year that he led the league in passing attempts or whatever, you know, the high number. But you look at his quarterback rating that year. He was number nine in the league. You look at the QBR. If you give a shit about that, he was number 12.

So again, that's, that was Shaw. And then, you know, it all unraveled the next year and it's pretty hideous the next year. I wonder how many games did he actually play that year? I mean, Case Keenham threw for nearly 2,000 yards. How many games did Matt Schaub play? It is wild to think about how quickly. Matt Schaub fell off a cliff. And I know this is supposed to be about C.J. Stroud,

but it is wild how quickly Matt Schaub just fell and never got back up again. Because that was a 12 and 14. They won a playoff game in 2012. They come back, they won their first two games, if you'll recall, of the next year of 2013. They were comeback wins that Schaub had to put up tons of numbers in those games. And they rallied one. And then the pick six is starting. started happening. Pick six, pick six, pick six. Like, when did Shob get bounced that year?

Here he is. He threw for 2300 years. He was two and six. So he appeared in 10 games. He started eight. So midway through the season is where they made the move and and Kubiak had the mini stroke. And then that was the year that Wade had to come in and be the coach. And they fired Kubiak. And it was a whole thing. It is wild how quickly shit turned, though. For an organization that had never won anything to think about the fact that the Texans went from like doormat to nine they were a nine-win team so they finished over 500 lost a lot of games because of shitty defense and wacky happenstances in the next year 11 they're a playoff team 12 they're a 12 win playoff team the next year the coach and the quarterback are whacked it happens

that also kind of happened to Ryan tanyhill I'd see tannihill's name on here that happened to tannahill in nashville you know they were I mean they should have gone to the AFC championship game one year. Didn't they? They did. And then like, boom, it's over. It's amazing how quickly things can end in the NFL. But at his best, Matt Schaub, if you want to look at like a combination of all those numbers and passing yards again aren't the best gauge of that. But looking at the whole picture, like I wonder where Shaw ranks and touchdown passes

in that stretch. Like, let's see, his best year, let's say 2009, right, was the Pro Bowl, quote-unquote year. He threw 29 touchdowns that year, which would have had. had him fifth in the league and touchdown passes that year. So again, he was probably a guy that was averaging 26, 27 touchdown passes a year in his prime, throwing for over 4,000 yards, probably 42, 4,300 yards each year in his prime. And that was before they got the running game with Arian and before the defense started really getting good. So all that to tell you this, why any of this matters.

What does it mean about C.J. Stroud? Okay. Back to the point that Andre made about body language. And this is why I bring up Shab. Because while Shab had his issues, I always felt that Shob was a fucking pro. And the guy had to take his fucking beatings, man. Like he would take a beating from the media. He would take a beating from the fans.

And that was his life. I mean, he was getting his ass kicked by everybody. And that was kind of part of it. Like you're the quarterback of an NFL team. And he always kind of took the lumps, right? But one thing I remember about Shob, and I don't know, I've never heard Aryan talk about this. I mean, we've heard, we know that Andre, I mean, thought well of Matt Chob. I don't think he hated him or anything like that.

You never heard anybody say anything bad about Shab, the player in terms of leadership or in terms of relationship with teammates. He always took the blame for shit. And that guy threw some really bad balls that cost him some games. I mean, we've talked about all the pick sixes, but if you go back to 2010, I believe it was 2010 on a Monday night game. It was either Monday or I think it was Monday night football against the Ravens. He threw a pick six in the end zone that ended the game in overtime. I mean, Shob had some shit that could really lead you to doubting yourself and being super pissed at your situation. But he always kind of carried himself like a leader, you know what I mean?

Not like a rah, raw leader. Like you never looked at Shob and thought like you were never going to see Matt Shob in a huddle before the game like Drew Brie's getting. the guys hyped up like that, like a Drew Breeze type of thing. And you don't feel like it was like a Peyton Manning type of situation where Manning would just fucking tell you this, this, this, and like there are different kinds of leaders. But I never got the vibe that Chab wasn't a leader. You know, like I always felt that Chab was a guy that people respected and he knew how to handle situations and guys reacted well to him.

I don't think that's unfair. Stroud doesn't give off that vibe. and you kind of go back to when he was sobbing on the bench after his boy got hurt. And does that say anything about being a leader? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But there's just a vibe about him. And this just could be what you get out of this generation of player.

Because like I'm looking at the 2009 top 10 passing yardage leaders, right? These are grown men. This is Shob and Peyton Manning and Tony Romo and Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady. and Drew Breeze. You will never have this good of a crew of top 10 quarterbacks in the league probably ever again. And we're talking adults. We're not talking about dudes who bring purses to work and we're not talking about dudes who paint their fingernails, although Caleb's beating the shit out of people, so judge him if you will. But it's a different vibe. This is, you know, 2009, this is before Twitter's a big deal. This is before Facebook is a big deal. This is before

social media is a huge deal. This is just dudes that are old school cats playing football. You know, A. Raj was 26 at the time. Brady was 32, Manning was 33, Breeze was 30, Philip Rivers was 27, 28, Ben Rothesberger was 27, Farr was 40, Kurt Warner was 38, and by the way, went 10 and 5 that year, went to, was that the, they went to the Super Bowl. All that said, and maybe it's because of my age, so in 2009, that's 17 years ago for me, I was 23, so, you know, a Peyton Manning feels like a different world to me. That's someone I grew up watching. Same with, you know, Drew Brees or whomever.

What I see out a lot of these dudes when I watch them play is I just think this is a new breed of dude. That's why there are certain dudes that don't give off that vibe that I really like. Like I really like Jackson Dart. Maybe he's a hard on and maybe like, oh, you know, he goes and speaks at the Trump shit and these boys with his running back and his running backs a hard on and like they're bros, you know, they're like the kind of guys that probably laugh their asses off watching tires. You know, like, whatever.

But his vibe is that of someone. Same with Baker. You know, Baker can fuck up a lot. But when I watch Baker play, I'm like, I think that dude's a leader. And I think he'll run through a wall for dudes. And I think dudes know that. And I think they react to that. And I think they respect him.

He'll have some bad fucking games. But you know what Baker's going to do? Baker's going to go out there. And after every game he plays, you feel like this guy was out there and may have died trying to win the game. And I don't know that you get that vibe from CJ. You know, maybe I'm misguided on this. But when I watch the guy play, that's not the kind of vibe I get.

And I think it's, and remember, you know, how old is Baker? Baker's in his 30s right now. Like, I'm right now, Jackson Dart, I think, is a unique case. That dude's always just been a big dick swinger, like a Johnny football type dick swinger. And it kind of comes maybe from playing for Lane. I think there's elements of that, right? But he's out there just swinging dick and he doesn't care. How old is Baker?

Baker's got to be 31, 32 now, right? So like Baker Mayfield's more of an adult than some of these guys are. And you can kind of tell by the way he carries himself. And he's had to fail. And I think that's something that CJ hasn't had to do. Like CJ hasn't had to be a top draft pick and then bounce from two or three places and figure shit out. I think there is something about being someone who's been dumped and had to go from place to

place to learn. And not saying CJ can't. What I'm saying is he hasn't had to do that. Does that make sense what I'm trying to convey here? Baker Mayfield is 31. Next April he's going to be 32 years old. How many teams has Baker Mayfield played for? Four?

Five? Cleveland, the Panthers, the Rams, and the bucks. And mind you, this is a dude that was the first overall pick in 20. 2018. By 2022, he's playing for Carolina. By 2022 later in that year, he's backing up for the Rams. So I do think there's something about having to fail and learn and grow. And I don't know that CJ's done that. That kind of goes to the body language. You know, I mean, look, and not everybody has to fail somewhere and go somewhere to figure it out. Caleb's figured out in Chicago. I guess what he needed was a great offensive coach,

and he's got one with Ben Johnson. You know, maybe Bryce Young has kind of figured shit out. I don't know. But there's a bad, there's a negative vibe about, about CJ that you can't have if you're going to be the leader of a team. You don't have to be rah, raw. Not everything has to be Drew Breeze in the huddle before the game

and doing chance and shit. and not everybody has to be an in-your-face baker type that's got the headband on and loud and shit you can be matt shop remember back to andre play with matt shop i never once saw matt shaw being demonstrative in the four years i was there but he was even keel you know you throw a pick you know it sucks but you're not carrying yourself like you carry yourself like all right we're going to get this shit back give me the ball let's go and you don't get that vibe from cj and if you're somebody like andre who played with the people who played with the people who people he played with. You know, he played with Matt Schaub. And he played with, you know, like Ryan Fitzpatrick was a guy like that. We can mock Ryan Fitzpatrick. I'm fairly certainly he played with Ryan Fitzpatrick. If, you know, Ryan Fitzpatrick, while not a guy that, you know, is going to go down as an all-time

great play for like 3,000 teams, the guy carried himself really well for a guy that bounced around like that. Like Case Keenham, Case Keenham never had a negative vibe about him. And that's a guy that's still in the fuck. How wild is it that Case Keenham still in the fucking league? He doesn't carry himself negatively. Doesn't hang his head. Just goes out of their plays.

And that's why the guy has stayed in the league for as long as he has. And that's why teams feel comfortable that he can win a game or two for you if he has to do it because he's done it. But there's something about that. There's not an even keel about CJ. And maybe that's unfair. And it also comes to a head when you lose a game like you lost and you lost it in the way you've lost game. in previous years as well. And you wonder, and the difference, of course, is, you know, Baker just got paid to a degree, right?

CJ is going to have to get paid. And the Texans have to figure out if this is going to be their guy for the future, not just this year, next year, whatever. Like, if you're going to give him a deal, he's going to get a deal and it's going to be a big deal. And I think if you poll people, look, look at what the situation was last year with the neck. there was legit outcry to just ride with Davis Mills from people. Now, fans aren't brilliant or anything like that. You know, I mean, the coaches make those decisions. But think about that for a second.

Like, there was legit outcry to just stick with Davis Mills. And it's also important that it's not just a body language thing. Like, you can get away with shitty body language if you're playing well. Has C.J. Stroud played consistently well the last three years. that answer is no so I don't know if Andre's getting I don't know if Anders getting shit on by people there I know it's a big talking point there and people are breaking it all down

and shit so I don't know what the overall vibe of it is but let's give it a Google really quick let's Google Andre Johnson and see if we've got any think pieces about Andre Johnson here Andre Johnson all right Andre Johnson News. Texans Hall of Fame wide receiver criticizes body language. C.J. Stroud. Texans legend

Andre Johnson criticizes body language. It's all about body language, body language, body language. Boy, 11, the top story on the news, 11 years ago, Texans released Andre Johnson. What a time it was. I want someone's opinion on this. I want to find opinions that people in Houston have so I can argue with people's opinions about Andre Johnson. but yeah let's see Texans wire here let's see that's not really an opinion piece there so I'm not really interesting that

let's see here's some details Stroud looks promising for the most part he completed 62% of his passes 274 yards two touchdowns the lone downside was he had two strip sack fumbles that resulted in turnovers one on the final drive of the game even if Stroud

improved one game won't change the stance of many around the city for his seven turnovers in the postseason, which resulted in Houston missing the best chance of making it to the Super Bowl. Okay, fair. Even Johnson, Houston's lone Hall of Famers commented on Stroud's past. Most recently appeared on podcasts, said he doesn't like his body language, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Clip went viral, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right.

So, we'll see. But I think big picture is another, like, if you keep going through this and it's a week-in, week-out thing, where you question whether or not the Texans should pay this guy. Maybe the answer is they shouldn't. But then again, he's a talented enough guy where you think he could do things. This is a weird situation to be in because usually like it's an obvious sign that you shouldn't keep a guy, right? Like we're not going to give a guy a long-term deal because it's obvious that this thing was a failure. It is not obvious that C.J. Stroud's a failure at all.

It's obvious that he's up and down and it's obvious that they haven't won the big one. and it's obviously that he said the defense to be good enough for them to win games, and he has sucked in the playoffs in some instances. That's all fair. But it's not obvious that he sucks to the point that you shouldn't pay him. You know, like, let me put it this way. If you let C.J. Stroud walked, you decide not to resign him for a long-term deal. Would you feel confident that he would go to another place and fail as well?

Do you feel confident that if some other team has said, this is our starting fucking quarterback, we're paying him? Do you feel confident that he would go to that place and not help them win? I'm not. He could go somewhere and win. Like, I'm not riding the guy off. But it's certainly a, it's an interesting, fascinating situation because it's not cut and dry. It's a week by week thing.

He can go out and throw for 305 touches tomorrow and do crotch chops coming off the field with his head held high. And we're like, well, I guess that's our guy. No, we don't know. It's hard to say. All right, more to come. Thank you.