The Josh Innes Show - How I Would Fix 97.5 The Fanatic

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

First off, I appreciate all the great messages I've received about the 97.5 opening. Crossing Broad has posted the latest quarterly Philly sports radio ratings and WIP is destroying Fanatic. I think I have pretty good radio insight and ideas. Here is how I would approach fixing Fanatic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The following was recorded from inside an ice plunge Okay, all right When a core's life is cold enough the mountains on the can turn blue So the next time you want to cold loggered cold filtered cold package Core's light just wait until those glorious mountains on the can turn blue. Whoo! It's easy to say that fast when you're freezing gold. Well, as we sit here today, I want to tell you that I appreciate all the people who have

been messaging and commenting on that post about whether or not I should apply for the job at 97.5 in Philadelphia. I'm getting messages on Instagram. I'm getting messages on Twitter. I'm getting comments to the point that like I emailed them yesterday because the posting said email your resume and cover sheet and blah, blah, blah. Scott Masteller at Beasley broadcasting cool right so cool and I emailed it to him and again I know this

guy like he's not he's a good dude. I know him right so I'm not here to try to **** on the guy's had a very successful radio career when he was running a radio station in Baltimore that I knew I didn't fit on and he knew I didn't fit on, he at least talked with me for an hour, he and I have exchanged emails many times, he knows who I am and he knows that I'm accomplished in this to some degree and knows that I'm pretty good at it, right? So I know him. That's why it would irk me if I don't even get a conversation about it. But today I've sent another email where I have screen recorded my phone

and it's just me scrolling up and looking at like the 200 something comments from people on my social media saying come back come back. Some say no you suck come back come back. If there were 200 plus comments on there, I feel like 95 if not more percent were positive. And those are from people from Philadelphia for a guy who has not been in Philadelphia on the radio in almost nine years, almost nine years since I've been on the radio there and I've still got fucking people sending me messages saying we

want you back quoting bits that I did. I got a message from a guy and it just said I'm a.1 percenter. Do you know how deep of a cut saying that I'm a.1 percenter is? That was before we moved to afternoons. That was we've been bumped off a WIP FM for the Phillies and that was me pulling my pud on 610 AM while there was a Phillies game on and I said we made a bit out of it how the ratings went up by 0.1% on the WIP AM stream on 610 when I went on there. So we called the people who listen to that a 0.1 percenter. Like that kind of shit, the deep cuts, that's the reason that I love

listeners, man. I love listeners because they remember shit like that and the fact that I love listeners, man. I love listeners because they remember shit like that. And the fact that that was there and that someone remembered that and someone recalled that little fucking thing. I don't know who this person is. It's not like someone like Joe and Philly, who I know has been listening to me for a hundred years and still messages me and stuff and all messaging me. It ain't like that. This is some dude I had no clue who he was. He just showed up this is some dude I had no clue who he was. He just showed up in the comments and said I'm a 0.1 percenter. Like when you see shit like that and you're like, big fucking deal. Like that

that bothers me and I'm not saying this to try to be Chedur Sanders and you know treat this like a recruiting visit instead of a job interview, but you also have to know what you're worth and know your value and know you're good at something. And I know I'm pretty fucking good at this and I know that I had an impact in Philly and I know if I possessed the the maturity, and I know that's a shocker, but the maturity that I possess now, I would have been successful there and still been there. Now, was it my dream to stay there? No. So, I mean, who knows where my mindset would have been anyway.

But I'm a more mature person now than I was back in 2016. I'm more knowledgeable than I was in 2016. These are all facts. Do I still do stupid shit? Yes. Do I still make mistakes? Yes. Do I still say the things I shouldn't say at times? Yes. Do I still handle some situations on the air poorly? Yes. These are all things that are true. But I also handle a lot of shit a lot better now than I did then. So with the knowledge I have, this is just me, I'm trying to sell myself to you in this case. I feel that with the maturity I have now, with the perspective I have, mind you, I didn't have this perspective back in 2016 because here's what my life was in 2016. Baton Rouge to Houston, giant success, Houston to Philadelphia

within a year were number one. That was my thing. I didn't have perspective. I now have a perspective. I know what it's like to sit out for, let's see, when I was fired in Houston, I was out from March of 2019 until April of 2021. Now mind you, in between there, there was the free work at 97.5 in Houston and the Rona. So it wasn't straight up two years without work. And somehow we were able to survive with all these loans and shit, whatever. Then I went to Nashville, huge success there, big success. We had a great, we had amazing success. It was great. And that was great and then I went to St. Louis and this has been kind of a mess. But my point being is I have perspective. I've been out of a job for nine months. I know how to handle

shit now. Anyway, let me play a couple commercials. What I have coming up is Crossing Broad. They don't like they don't like Guinness. They don't like them. They hate me and they They always have they always have there we go doing the Shane Gillis impression of Trump, but They posted the ratings and this might explain why all these people are making moves But they've got the Philadelphia sports radio ratings. And what's funny is they still caption it radio wars or headline it radio wars. It ain't a fucking war. It's a radio prison rape. I mean, it's not even close. But anyway, let me see. Let me play a couple

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about this but in reading some of the comments on this post of mine where people are like, yeah, apply the number of them that were muted and there were positive comments. I'm like, shit. Well, I've muted a ton of people. You say one thing that pisses me off. I'm like, you're muted, pal. But let's read the ratings in Philadelphia, shall we? Radio Wars, not a war. 94 WIP dominates winter ratings.

Mike Missinelli reclaims top spot at Fanatic. That's just a way to try to put Missinelli's name in the headline because it's truly like, hey, who had a better record? The Pirates or the Rockies? They both stink. Wow, the Pirates record is slightly better than the Rockies. Who's a better team, the Rockies or the White Sox? Right? That's kind of what

this is. Like, congrats, you have the best record or the best ratings on the station, but the station's obviously not doing well anyway. Let's see. It was the German rock band Scorpions that sang about the wind of change back in 1991, but they weren't talking about Philadelphia Sports Talk Radio because the wind isn't blowing and nothing has changed. 94 WIP continues to completely dominate not just 97.5 the Fanatic, but most of the market in Nielsen's min 25 to 54 demographic. WIP posted humongous big numbers, that's kind of redundant, could have just said humongous numbers in a winter ratings book that

went from January 9th to April 2nd covering the Eagles Super Bowl run and front end of the Philly season. The Fanatic meantime got no help from the Sixers and Flyers as both combined to miss the postseason for the first time in seven years and they don't get help from those anyway because look, people don't give a shit. Like basketball on the radio is a dud and no one's listening to hockey. Like it's football. Like the people don't give a **** like basketball on the radio is a

dud and no one's listening to hockey like it's football like WIP has the two biggest most important brands. If Fanatic really wanted to make a push, they really could just say, here's what we're going to do. We have to make a play for

either the Eagles or the Phillies and who knows if they'd get them and who knows maybe they have tried but you have to get one of those. Those are big getters for you like those are sports that people listen to on the radio. No one gives a **** about basketball on the radio and no one gives a **** about hockey on the radio and you can tell because in most cities, the NBA on the radio, they don't

even send an analyst on the road with the teams like the NBA on the radio is a dud. It's a non-starter. But anyway, there's one thing I would do and this is an obvious one. Try to get the Eagles and I think they just signed a long-term deal and I don't know about the Phillies. You probably can't get them, but you should have tried and done everything possible. Baseball is a great cumulative audience. TSL is time spent listening and you combine those things and kind of that's how they come up the ratings right. What you need to do and should have done and I'm assuming you had to have tried and I don't know what the rights fees are for the Phillies either

so I don't know. I don't know if your desire is to win big or not so who knows but baseball you get about six months of content and if you have a good baseball team those are gigantic cum getters for the fucking Cardinals suck and the radio station that carries the Cardinals gets a huge pop from having the Cardinals. So that would be gigantic. But anyway, it was a clean sweep for WIP, which won the 2554 demo in every time slot. Let's see. Mornings. WIP with a 16.1 share. That's a 10.7 over the air and a 5.4 stream to the Fanatics 3.2.

So they defeated them by 13 shares. Joe the Hammered Decamera and John Ritchie finished first in the market clipping Preston and Steve in the mail demo. Good for them. Like I don't think it's a particularly interesting or entertaining show, but I don't think much in Philadelphia is. It's just the same shit regurgitated every day part, but good for them. WMMR, a morning juggernaut, won the overarching people demographic though, the strength of the Eagles run pushed WIP, and that's kind of how it goes. Like what's going to happen now is once you start seeing and I don't know what the month to

month was on this but I would imagine January, February were huge for WIP and then as you got into March and start working into April, it's going to start kind of regressing because obviously you're going to ride high off of the Eagles and that's the perk of having the Eagles. I would imagine that that number starts to go down once you get into the summer. And yes, baseball is good, but it's not Eagle Super Bowl good. It is quite possible that WIP was on the verge of death before the Eagles won that 2017 Super Bowl.

And when I say death, they'd still exist. But ever since then, the radio station's just been a fucking behemoth. At the Fanatic, John Kinkade and Andrew Salachunas were seventh. So there you go. So first to seventh, but the fucking disparity between the shares is fucking remarkable. 16 to three. Mid-Days, WIP a 16.3 and Fanatic a four. Impressive and continued growth for Joe Giglio and Hugh Douglas who finished number one and improved on the 15.6 number posted in the fall. Since we've been doing

these ratings post, WIP mid-days has never scored a higher number and has always consistently several rating points below AM and PM drive. Well, there could be part of that as you get and I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine later in in the book for them, you probably started getting some spring training baseball games and other things when baseball games if you have a good baseball team day baseball games are huge. We had a horrible baseball team when I was on at WIP and it

hurt us like Mike started killing us when we had to air the dreadful Phillies. I remember one day, this was the worst day, I think they had fired Sam Hinkie, the Sixers had, and they had just fired Sam Hinkie. And instead of us being on the air talking about it, like Mike was, we were playing the Phillies game and they were like 30 games out of first place and it was a waste. we were playing the Phillies game and they were like 30 games out of first place and it was a waste. So four share in this one for the midday and that's I guess where Big Mike

Missinelli is cleaning up. He's got Missinelli improved from a 3.8 to a 4 which by the way is not an improvement like it just to kind of understand how these things work. When you start talking about such a small percentage growth, that's what they called a rounding error, and that's just like cool. It's up 0.2 percentage points. Who gives a shit, right? Not trying to rip the guy, but like 3.8 to 4. I would say if it was anybody, that's not something to stroke each other over. There's not a huge difference

between a 3.8 and a 4. There's a giant difference between a 16 and a 4. Afternoons, WIP has an 18.4 and the Fanatica has a 2.5 and Prime, which is like just the you know the 6A to 7P or whatever. I don't know how they list Prime on here, but just the overall day is like WIP 17 and Fanatic, dun dun dun, 2.4. So they were 11th in the market was Fanatic. But here's the thing I don't know. And obviously at the end of the story, it's like, well, Mikey Miss had a slight bump. It's, is, let's see, Program Director Scott Masteller and Cluster Manager Paul Blake will have to replace Tyrone as we head

through the spring into the summer. Look, I'm not there to rip anybody that's on 97.5. I don't know what the ambitions are of 97.5. Like, realistically, you're not going to beat WIP. Like, there are just some things that won't happen. Ten years ago, you could have. Ten years ago, you're not going to beat WIP. Like there are just some things that won't happen. Ten years ago, you could have. Ten years ago, you were close in some day parts. Ten years ago, you were. Mike Missnelli was beating the afternoons at WIP. Before I got there, I won for over a year. Then he bounced

back and was winning again. And then I fell off a cliff and all that shit. So you had a chance. You're not going to do it. You tried to go out and hire all the dudes from WIP, couldn't get it done. It is what it is. I don't know what their aspirations are. I don't know. Like maybe they make money already and they're fine with it because I would imagine their salaries are pretty low, right? Like I don't know what Kincaid makes. I don't want to speculate on some guy's salary. But I would

imagine that the money they're paying these guys, like I imagine Tyrone who has no cache, so it's not like he was in a position to demand huge money. I'd imagine he's not making a lot. I imagine they pay Ricky Metallico a little bit because he's got a name. Miss Sinelli, I don't even know what kind of deal they worked with him, but I sure as fuck don't think he's making the four, five, six, whatever he was making in the past, not close to that. And I don't know he's making the four, five, six, whatever he was making in the past, not close to that. And I

don't know what Kincaid is, but they got Kincaid from Atlanta. So maybe he's making a little bit. I don't know if they've sliced him at any point. You know, if they've cost cut and said, all right, we're going to slice you down. I don't know if he took a haircut at any point. No clue. I don't want to speculate because I don't know. But all that said, if I were in charge of that, and I've said this before, and I'm trying to undermine my friend Scott who runs the radio station, but when it comes to wanting to bring in

somebody like me, are you trying to at least generate interest and try to narrow the gap? Like real talk, if I came in there and I were doing afternoons, I would not beat WIP, at least not right away and I don't think I ever would. It's a hard thing to do to take, to make up 14 fucking shares. You'd have to be a god to do that. You'd have to look at it in terms of what are your own victories, right? So if they've got an 18 in the afternoon on WIP, and you've got a 2.5 that you inherit, if you somehow get that bad boy to 5 or 6 and you go from being in 11th place to 4th and they're first, there's

a lot of money that's there to be made revenue wise by jumping up 4 or 5 shares, going from 11th to 5th, going from a 2.5 to a 6 even, right? And the goal would be you want to take away something from them. So if they've got an 18 you want to slice them down into like the 1314 range, which by the way, they're not going to have an 18. For ever. I mean that's just that was football things work out that way now baseball games will help a show like that because a lot of your baseball games are going to trickle

into the afternoon and for a good baseball team, Q will be high. They'll get good numbers for that. They know that. I'm not ripping them. I know nothing about how that show sounds. I don't listen to it. So I don't know how it sounds, but baseball and the Eagles being great helps. Winning a Super Bowl helps. In the summer, that number is going to go down. Like I've seen their 6+, which is they're just everybody listening numbers. That's the only thing that's public and they've already gone down considerably in that sense the Super Bowl. So that's not ripping them. They'll be fine, but they know that the Eagles Super Bowl thing was huge for them. The problem that you run into with 97.5 is all boats don't rise

with the tide. It's not like that the 97.5 saw a huge boost because the Eagles were great. Really only WIP did. So what do you do? How do you come you combat what WIP is doing? You sit down with the manager and you say, all right, what's the plan? Well, do we think we can beat WIP? Realistically, no. We know we can't. They've taken over as the dominant force, but how can we slice into what they do? Like I know in the past I think they've tried to find a way to be the younger station in terms of like, hey, we're getting

killed 2554, but man, our 1834, we're really good in the younger demos. That's something that people who don't have the numbers that are important do. They try to find a number that gives them hope, like, well, you know, we're getting our ass kicked, but did you see the 3544 numbers, right? You try to find a number like that that will make you go okay we're making some progress right? The reality is 2554 is the most important 2554 male is where you need to be dominant and 2554 persons is where you need to be really competitive with like the the MMRs and with the MGKs and shit like that. Like you're probably on a sports station unless the team's winning the Super Bowl. In person's 2554, you're usually not going to be

number one in a lot of places, but you're certainly going to be competitive. Like we were number one person's 2554 in afternoon drive and men dominated men. That's the key. In cities like Philly and Boston, New York, it's possible, but you have to dominate men. That is your number one goal is to kill it in men 2554. And if you're two or three in persons, you can live with that when it's not football season. Like in football season, you want to try to be number one 2554 persons.

Rest of the year, you're like, hey, if we're in the top five there, but still number one men, we're doing our job. That's kind of how that thing works. So what would I do? You have to find a way to make yourself different. The problem you're running into here is that you're trying to be WIP by doing everything WIP does. Oh we're taking calls. Oh we're asking the same dumb bullshit questions. Oh we're not doing anything interesting. Here's what I would do. You have to be active, you have to be in the community, and by the community I mean you have to do shit that gets you in front of the audience.

How often does WIP really do something that they're out with the people? Fridays at Chickies and Pete's? Cool, they've done that for a hundred years. You need to be focused on selling as many remotes as you possibly can and making these remotes fun, interactive. And I know money's involved in that, so it's difficult to do. But you have to make people want to come to your remotes and you have to turn your listeners into your warriors, into your army members. You can't just have people who are like, yeah, I'm fine with this station. I'll just listen to WIP because I don't feel like I am part of

this universe at 975 and all 975 is doing is WIP because I don't feel like I am part of this universe at 97.5 and all 97.5 is doing is WIP Lite so I'll just listen to WIP. One thing we did that I thought made us super successful there and the people in Philadelphia respond to this that more so than any city in the country, Philadelphia radio listeners will respond to being part of something. Doesn't happen in Houston, doesn't happen anywhere else that I've ever seen it. It happens in Philadelphia. I don't know why, but it does. So what do you do? You have to turn people into P1 diehard rabid people. And if you get the right number of

those people, one of those little meters might fall into their hands and all of a sudden that right meter you have is riding you hot. And all of a sudden you go from a 2.5 to a 4.5 and you go from 11th to 8th and now you're building a story and your salespeople can sell a story. Your salespeople can go look, I mean the Josh Ennis show or Mike Missanelli or whatever that show is climbing right now and we're red hot. Did you see the big crowd that we brought out to our remote? By the way, you sell the remote sell it to a bar these bars buy these remotes and you have a hot and did you see the big crowd that we brought out to our remote? By the way, you sell the remote, sell it to a bar, these bars buy these remotes,

and you have a Friday thing where you're at a bar every Friday. I would have my afternoon show, if you build this new afternoon show, I would put that afternoon show in front of as many people as I possibly can and create a vibe that people want to see it. I wouldn't hide it away in a studio, I wouldn't do any of that. Or I would do like an old school Howard Stern trick and build it up a little bit and say, hey, once we hit a certain number of followers on Instagram or once we hit a certain number, you know, it's a stolen thing, but it works. Go in there and be like, hey, once we hit a certain number of followers, we're going to do a big live broadcast at such and such,

sell the big live broadcast, have a 500 people, 200 people, whatever out at this broadcast, it'll look great. Your salespeople can take that and go, look, we're building something here. But what you cannot do is rely on the same shit that WIP does and do it worse than they do. That's the key. You want people, a smaller station like that has to depend on time spent listening. Your CUME is never going to outcume and CUME is the total number of people listening. WIP will always beat you there because WIP has the Eagles, WIP has the Phillies. That CUME number is always, and it's just a better station and it's the heritage state.

They will always have you beaten there. You will be hard pressed to take that many people from that heritage station with the damage you've done to yourself and come to your station. But here's what you need to do. You need to find loyal fucking people who when they turn it on, they leave it on. That's how the station in Dallas, the ticket which has no business being number one all the time. It's really not a very good radio station. The shit's not very

interesting but it's number one and they've done it for 30 years because their audience is loyal as shit and they hate what's going on on the other stations. They stick there. They turn it on, they leave it on. Lock it in and rip the knob off. That's what they do. You have to be kind of the little engine that could. You have to treat yourself kind of like you're the underground pirate radio station. Now, all that could be moot because they may be making money right now and they're content with that. Maybe you want to make a little bit more money, but as long as they're not losing money, they're fine

because they've got WMMR, which I imagine bills a billion dollars, and MGK is a highly rated classic rock station. They've blown out all the jocks seemingly like John DeBella's gone. They fired all the big money people there. So now they don't have a lot of overhead on a classic rock station. Basically treat it like a fucking jukebox and they probably make a lot of money off of that. They've got the country station that doesn't really have a lot of overhead I would imagine either and they do fine. So like money wise, I'm sure they're generating and I wouldn't imagine they're losing money. I don't think they have to pay rights fees for the and I don't

know this but I would assume and if it is it's not a huge total but like Sixers and Flyers they're not paying to air those games and if they are it ain't much because they just don't have a lot of value. So there's that and then you throw in the fact that you've got, your talent cost is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago and you're paying the CUS and you're paying Mike in his zenith and you then eventually hired Farzada

and like all these guys. So I would imagine that you're not paying a ton of money for air talent. So you're probably making money. So it goes back to the initial question. What do you want to be? Who are you and what is the goal? What is your ambition for this radio station? Do you want it to be successful? Do you want to be number one? Which is an unrealistic goal. Sometimes you got to know your limitations. There are some guys that struggle to know their limitations. Some guys really want to be the lead guy on a show but they're fantastic as a three but they fancy themselves a number one,

they go take a job somewhere else and they fail as the number one. They're just meant to be a number two or a second banana. There are guys who you might be a six foot tall, scrappy little white dude and you're really good at shooting threes, but you're never going to be LeBron. Like just not who you are and you have to accept who you are. It is okay for the fanatic to accept that the fanatic may not be the number one station and honestly everyone wants to get there but if you set yourself that goal,

you're never going to get there. Hopefully you do but that shouldn't be the goal. The goal should be to become a viable radio station that isn't just a flyover radio station. You want to have shows that you have hardcore diehard loyal people who help you go from a 2.5 to a 6, a 2.5 to a 5. Those are realistic growth. And if you're taking on WIP and they got a 10 and you got a 6, you can live with that. Like look, it's very similar to a situation in Boston with the Sports Hub and WEEI. Sports Hub

was the new kid in town back in the mid-2000s. They came in, they got the Patriots and Celtics, all the shit and they killed the longtime heritage station WEEI. WEEI is now never going to defeat them overall. It's just never going to happen. That is a behemoth, a juggernaut. They beat them to the FM dial. They'll never do it. But WEI is getting more and more competitive with them in certain day parts, particularly in their morning show. They are more competitive. Is WEI ever going to beat them? Probably not. But WEI has gotten to a point where they are consistently good enough in some of those numbers

to be successful and generate revenue and not be dead. That should be the ambition for 97.5. 97.5 in Houston's, or rather in Philadelphia, that ambition should be can we take a show in their afternoon show? It's got an 18 and ours has a 2. If we just gradually whittle them down to 1413 and we get up to six, that's a win. That's victory and all of a sudden, there's more money that comes with that. Is that what they want to do? Is that what their aspiration is or do they just want to exist? They're like, we're kind of content. We're making a few bucks. We don't want to spend a lot. We

don't want to put any effort. Maybe that's it. I don't know. I'm not trying to rip them. I truly do not know what their aspiration in that is. So, I'm not sure but that would be my ambition. If I, again, and I'm not trying to undermine the PD because I know the PD and he's a good guy. I'm just letting you know what my thought is and you want to get an instant pop, you bring in somebody like me. Now, let's talk about me in this situation, right? Because that's what this started. Would I beat them? No, probably not. Certainly not right away.

But here's what would happen. There'd be a curiosity bump and people would go, oh, I wonder what this guy sounds like now. Then you've got to do something that keeps them hooked and keeps them interested. Where I faltered big time last time is once I beat them I didn't stop hammering them. I very well could have just eased out of the dumb shit and just kind of gone back into doing a real show that focused nothing on them because we drove a stake in them right out of the gate. But I couldn't stop because I had a lot of fun doing it. That's where the maturity part comes in. But then you got to keep them there and that's where you got to build that audience of people and you got to make them feel like they're part of something. Just to me, not enough stations do that. When you get these markets with two, three sports radio stations, they all just kind of sound the same.

What are you doing? Like if I'm flipping on, is there a huge difference between the opinions of Spike Eskin or Mike Missanelli? Not really. Everybody in Philly's kind of got the same opinion on shit. But what are you doing that's unique that is standing out and they're kicking the shit out of you right now? So what can you do that's going to make you stand out and make news and get ears on your station and stay there enough to where you're competitive? Because right now you're not competitive. You're a joke in terms of the disparity. It's a

joke. How do you become competitive? That's the biggest question. And we will continue.