The Josh Innes Show - Is Harden On The Mt. Rushmore Of Scrutinized Athletes

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

There are many players who were all timers, but couldn't win it all. I don't know that there is another great player who never won it all that gets the level of hate that Harden gets. Think about it, people like to bust Charles Barkley's balls for not winning a ring. Harden gets destroyed for his failures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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you can invest in it at wealth simple start now at wealth simple.com this guy's career's been fascinating because he's never been a bad player he's been an MVP player he's been a guy that's won a shitload of games but he will always be known as a guy that bottoms out in the playoffs and not just bottoms out in the playoffs

He'll be known as a guy that quits. And whether it's true or not, you can debate that. But this guy will always be known as a dude that at best just gets beaten in the playoffs and just gets taken out by better players. Or at worst, just flat fucking quits and doesn't fucking show up. And that's kind of what he's always going to be known for. And that's what we would talk about when we had the rockets on the radio. When I got back to Houston the second time, we had the rockets on the radio. And I would initially didn't start out bad.

But then as I started going on and it all. kind of reared its head again. I forgot exactly what it was I said about Hardin, but my boss deemed it a personal attack. I just think it was an in-passing thing. I might have called him a douche or something, right? Like, and my boss called me, and this is early in the process. So like, they didn't really have issues with me. We just had a nice relationship. And he's like, hey, try not to call James Harden to dosh. We don't want to do anything personal. You can be critical, but, you know, don't do anything personal. Fine. And that's where it started. But it's like, that set me in motion again, and it just sent me down this path of just this vitriol and hate

that I had for the rockets. It like it reengaged my hatred for the rockets. And that hatred never stopped when I was in Houston the second time. Now I look back on it and I'm like, I don't really give a shit. Like I watched the rockets and I almost look at them in a, like, not longing. That's a weird way to put it. But I look at the rockets now and I'm like, I'll turn them on and go, hey, I feel like I'm kind of back at home now. And they have a different owner, and they have a different GM, and they have a different team president. And it's an entire different thing. Like, I'd handle the Rockets considerably different than I did back then.

But everything about the Rockets back then represented everything I hated. The team president I hated, and he didn't like me. The GM, Darrell Moore, who I would, I actually think me and Darrell have a decent relationship, I would guess. But, like, you know, Daryl, I would shit on all the time because the whole world said he was the greatest GM ever. But yet he's the greatest GM ever that's never even been to the NBA finals. and how many times have you been to the conference finals once, twice, ever? So, but people would blow him and that would annoy me. Like, it wasn't even a personal issue I had with Daryl.

Like, I think people think I had this personal issue with Daryl, but it wasn't. It wasn't based on anything like that. It was just I was annoyed that I didn't think this guy deserved the flowers that he was getting. Is as simple as it was. Like, I didn't think he was bad at his job. He's clearly not bad at his job. You don't keep that job for as long as he had it in Houston and keep the job for as long as you've had it in Philadelphia and be bad at your job. I just didn't think he deserved the enderil we trust.

This guy is the all-knowing type of shit. That's where I would get annoyed. And that's who I was fighting with. Not even Darrell, I was fighting with his sycophans. And that kind of got me in trouble. One of the times I got in trouble. On game day, pain can hit hard and fast. Like the headache you get when your favorite team and your fantasy team,

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Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View and enjoy via rail love the way. There is I said that I think if the rockets didn't turn, I forgot what they were doing, they were struggling. And I said if the rockets don't turn things around,

I think they're going to fire, they have to fire Daryl. I forgot when this was what happened in that season, it had to have been either, because I got there at the end of 16 into 17, maybe it was 2018. And I was on the air saying that, that if the rockets don't figure shit out, they're probably going to have to fire Daryl.

In no way is that a personal attack. That is an observation of someone's job, the job they are doing as the general manager of a basketball team. It wasn't a personal attack. It was none of that. And I remember getting called in and they're like, listen, that's a personal attack. You can't say that he should get fired. I said, I didn't say he should get fired. I said that if they continue to lose and they miss out on the playoffs or if they lose in the first round,

he probably should be because you didn't do the job. And that was deemed a personal attack. But that's how the rockets were. They had rabbit ears. They were extremely thin-skinned. I don't know that Hardin never heard anything or not. I don't know that Hardin would give a fuck. But I look back on that era with Hardin and it's just like, it's so wild because, I mean,

the dude is going to go down as a legendary player and they're going to have to put him in the Hall of Fame, right? Like, the guys won the MVP. He's been scoring champion. and he's done a bunch of shit. Now, again, he's known as a guy that bottoms out in the playoffs. But when you look back over the last 20 years of basketball, is James Harden, one of the 10 best players in the league?

Probably. Right? So he's probably a Hall of Famer, even without a championship. Like, it's pretty wild when you think about it. There's going to be a lot of guys that go in from this era in the NBA, just if you want to get to Hall of Fame talk and your legacy talk. There's a lot of guys who are going to get into the Hall of Fame that you're going to look back on and go,

Yeah. Really? Eh. But like Hardin's an 11-time All-Star, three-time scoring champ, eight-time. Well, he's an easy Hall of Famer. Like, James Hardin is an easy Hall of Famer based on the accolades and based on the statistics. But then you look at Hardin and you go, what have you done? He's won the MVP, six-man of the year.

He's had multiple runner-up. He had three or four runners up at top three. I believe James Hardin has had like five. top five finishes for the MVP. He is a slam dunk hall of famer. Yet he's a guy that when you're going to look back on him, you're going to go, that's great, but he's just always going to be known,

not as a guy that didn't win a championship. Because there are guys like that that still get held in very high regard, right? Like Patrick Ewing is still held in very high regard, and there's a lot of respect for Patrick Ewing. He'll be known as the guy that couldn't win the big one. But that's going to be because, oh, they played Michael Jordan and they couldn't get past MJ. and all that. Same with Charles Barkley.

Like Charles Barkley, they hold the championships against Barclay, but nobody uses it in like a vitriolic way. It's like, oh, Chuck couldn't get the championship, but he's still considered one of the greatest players of all time and people love Charles Barkley. There are always going to be guys like that. In football, the great example of that would be like Jim Kelly. Jim Kelly went to four Super Bowls.

He didn't win one of them. He was a really great player in both the USFL and the NFL, and he's had cancer and he's super likable, and he's just a good guy and people look at Jim Kelly and go, that's a fucking stud and we have nothing against the guy. I think James Harden, and this is a fascinating legacy, but I think James Harden, when you look at all the stuff he's done, he's been in the league 17 years, again, sixth man of the year,

he's won the MVP. You could argue he could have had two or three others. I mean, he finished top two, three times, top three, four times, top five he's been in. Like, if you look at the prime, It is pretty fucking crazy when you think about it. Because if you look at what Hardin did once he went to Houston, top five MVP, number two MVP, nine MVP, two MVP, two MVP, three MVP.

His run in Houston, he was an elite, spectacular basketball player. Yes, he was a free throw merchant. Yes, that should be held against him. He did not play an aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball when he was there. Nobody wanted to watch the guy shoot 11 free throws a game. And by the way, that's what he averaged. About 10 and a half free throws a game in his prime in Houston. And he led the league.

When you look at things that James Harden led the league in historically, three point attempts a couple times, and free throws made and attempted. And, of course, he was a scoring champ a handful of times. It's crazy to think about that. But, like, there are guys that didn't win championships, but you almost use that as a way to complement them. I mean, look at the guys in Philadelphia.

I mean, there are guys that didn't win championships. That's a city that cares about guys. Buddy Ryan didn't win a Super Bowl with the Eagles. Buddy Ryan is held in greater regard, or at least he was, before people started suckling off Andy Reid's teat again. You know, Andy Reid went to as far as, he actually went further with the Eagles than Buddy Ryan. But Buddy Ryan was always considered the dude.

He was the Philly fucking guy, right? I mean, there are other players that have done the same thing. They're players that, you know, AI never won a championship. but no one looks at AI and judges him for not winning a championship. Right? Nobody looks at those guys that played in the Andy Reid era. Maybe McNabb, but McNabb gets unfair criticism one way or the other. You know, and he gets shit on by a lot of people anyway.

But like, look at all those guys that played on those great Eagles defenses that never won at all. They were just great defenses like Trotter and and Dawkins and Hugh Douglas and Tank and just go down the list of all. of these guys, these great, incredible players that played for the Philadelphia Eagles in the 2000s before they won the Super Bowl that were just beasts on great teams that just couldn't get over the hump. Nobody judges them for that. But James Harden, and I'm trying to think if there's another example that's like Hardin, where someone just flames out in the playoffs.

And whether the narrative is fair or not, he was always known as a guy that at best, flamed out and at worst quit in the playoffs. I'm saying it like he's retired, which by the way he's not, he's going to Cleveland, and who knows, they may win the whole thing. He's making them better. But is there another player like James Harden that you look back on and go, he didn't win at all, but it's actually held against him in a super negative vitriolic way? And I can't really think of anybody.

It gets hard for me to think. Again, and Harden also had the issue where he played in the era of social media and, you know, every eye is on every playoff game. And the second you fuck up and the second Manu Genoble blocks your three-point attempt, the second you go two for 17 or whatever it is, the second you don't attempt to shot and are just super passive, the whole world is watching it. And the whole world is not only watching it, but they're commenting on.

it in real time on social media, which totally changes the narrative as well, which totally changes the outlook. Look, I know that we're not doing this live, so I can't get any feedback from people, but who would it be? Find me another person in any sport that gets that same thing. Again, it's not a matter of, oh, he's criticized because he never won the whole thing, or he's judged differently because he didn't win the whole thing. There are plenty of guys like that, and I brought him up.

Barkley is a great example of that, a guy who was super ed that didn't win a championship. Gary Payton and Sean Kemp fall into that category. Carl Malone and John Stockton fall into that category. Patrick Ewing falls into that category. Clyde Drexler falls into that category. Charles Barkley falls into that category. There are tons of dudes, basketball in particular where it gets a little bit more of the individual thing, that get that criticism for not winning at all.

or at least it's part of their story. But who else do you know that gets it in a vitriolic way like Hardin does? Who, like, that's the biggest part of his thing. Look, I listed all of his accomplishments. MVP, top five in the MVP voting like seven times or whatever it was. Top three, four times. All those numbers. Scoring champion.

All that shit. Find me another point. player who gets that same level of heat. A heat for it. Not a, oh, he didn't win at all. Aw, Shucks. Let's laugh at Chuck. And anytime Chuck makes an argument with Shack, Shaq, can hold up his fingers and say, I got championships, and you don't. Not that shit.

I'm talking someone who is not only criticized for it, but has held solely responsible for the failures of his teams and is considered a quitter and a loser. And it gets, no one else does that. There is not another person in the world that you can say that about. Find them. They don't exist. And look, I'm not telling you that he doesn't deserve that criticism either. He certainly does.

Because if you go back and watch a lot of those games and watch a lot of those teams, you go back and you see a guy disappearing. He deserves the criticism. And he's the only person. Now, part of that is you have to get into those big playoff games to fuck up and to choke. You have to get there. And that guy got there a lot, not into the finals, but he got there a lot. I don't know, just find the whole thing interesting.

And now he's playing in Cleveland and I don't know if I just Hardin's an interesting story. He's just a fascinating example of the way people are covered. Would James Harden be considered different if James Hardin played instead of 2010 to 2006 if he played from 2000 to 2015? Before you really got into the boom of social media and clickbait and hot takes, how would we view Hardin? because part of the way you feel about someone comes from what you see other people saying about them, right? Like, I don't think that's unfair.

So people are just echo chambers or people repeat their parents. They repeat the shit they've heard, right? So if you see a bunch of people on the internet saying James Hardin's a quitter, you just kind of follow suit because why the fuck not? That's the, they're leading you in that direction. So what if there were no social media?

How would we view some of these guys? How would we view James Hardin? If you didn't know that the whole world thought James Hardin quit in these games or got worked in these games, would you feel that way? I don't know. Find the whole thing interesting. More to come.